Brandy Clark (@thebrandyclark) joined Bobby Bones to share some updates in her life. She recently won a Tony award for the music she wrote for the musical 'Shucked.' She talked about having to re-work most of the songs after getting mixed-reviews and how it took her 10 years to get it done. Brandy also opens up about her life growing up and how she went to college on a basketball scholarship, why she chose to give that up to pursue music, and her love for Magic Johnson! She also shared the stories behind the songs on her new self-titled album, what it was like working with Brandie Carlie as her producer, and more!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
I said, I always felt like I needed something to
hook somebody in. And she said, what do you mean?
And I said, well, I had to be like good
in sports and then good in music to hook people in.
And she's like, no, that's what you need to hook you.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
In episode four twelve with Brandy Clark, Brandy's the best
as a songwriter, as an artist. I love her as
a person. I just really enjoy spending time with her.
And I don't get to see her as much as
I like. You know, we'll do this once a year.
We'll see each other out occasionally, and it's always I
wish we could stop and talk more about we're at
an award show or we're here there. So I really
(00:39):
value this time with Brandy. You can follow her at
the Brandy Clark on Instagram. She got a new album.
I'm going to play you some of Buried You Dumb.
Here's a little bit of a song called Northwest.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
My Heart to start with.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
And she smoked in the house.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
She smoked in the house, would throw nothing up, She'd
cut them off.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
It's about her grandma. She's so great as an artist.
And we really start talking about Chucked the musical at first,
because I had just seen an Instagram post maybe from
Shane because they were nominated and they even won an
award for Shucked. I don't know anything about Broadway musicals
me either. I've seen a couple. But there are times
where she's been involved in it for so long because
(01:33):
they wrote all the music to it, and where she
would say things because she's been in it. I was like,
hold on, I don't know what that means. Sometimes people
have to do that with me with this job. I'll
be like a spot. Hey, They're like, what is the spot?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Sorry, it's a commercial. So I don't know. She's really cool.
She's on tour all year with Mary Chapin Carpenter. She
does stuff Brandy Carlisle, who produced her album She's All
Over the Place. She's an eleven time Grammy nominee, CMA
Song of the Year Award winner, and twenty two twenty
three Tony nominee Brandy Clark is Awesome. Some songs that
she wrote that she did not sing Miranda Lambert, Mom
(02:06):
has Broken heart Break, the Band, Perry Better dig Two,
Casey Musgraves, Follow Your Arrows, and so many more. I'll
stop you yapping here. She is one of my favorites.
(02:27):
She got a brand new album, self titled called Brandy Clark,
produced by Brandy Carlyle. It's been out since the middle
of May. Enjoy Brandy Clark. Gond to see you You Too.
I was thinking about just you, which I do every day,
and I was I guess it was Shane's story. I
saw that You're the Broadway play was nominated for Tony
(02:49):
Is that right? Yes, I'm not in that. I don't
know that world.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, we didn't either when it started. We actually ultimately
we got nominated for nine Tonys. Wow. I know which
one of those nominations was mine and Shane, But most
people that aren't in that world just think we were
nominated for nine Tonys.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Got it? The musical.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
The musical was nominated for nine Tonys, which was pretty incredible.
I mean, I think the most nominated musical was maybe
twelve or thirteen this year. Yeah, so we were in there.
We were, you know, in amongst the most nominated. We
had one win, which was great.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
It's over now.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, so you won though, well Alex Newell won great. Yeah. Yeah,
so yes, our show won.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, but you wrote all the music for the show, right,
we did yes, yeah, that's you.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's awesome. You know, that's what I'm
going to start saying. Yeah, you know, we did write
the music, so I guess we did win that, Tony.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
What is it called a shot? No no? A music musical?
A musical? So you wrote the music for the music.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
We wrote the music for the musical.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
That's so cool. How did you guys even have somebody
reach out or did you guys? I don't even know
what to ask about Shuck because I don't know what
it is.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
So I can tell you the journey. It's a great,
great story. So it happened started. It was over ten
years from when we started to win it opened.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yes, so and this is what's crazy. I went, I
had made twelve stories, but it didn't have a home.
I was doing a showcase for Rounder Records, and so
I had we had a meeting for Shocked to interview,
and so I was like, oh, we got to you know,
I hope the meetings on time because I got to
get to this showcase. That's how long ago it was.
(04:27):
And basically gay Lord or Opry owned the rights to
he Haw. Yes they still do.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
And I've been through a couple iterations of that, but
I know that from working with them personally.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yes, So they wanted to musicalize he Haw and Steve
Buchanan at the time was running the Opry in Nashville,
and he hired a book writer named Robert Horne. And
for those of you that don't know musical theater, book
writer writes all the spoken.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
So they're called a book I don't know musical that either.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
When they said a book writer, I thought Stephen King.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yes, same Judy Bloom is what my mind went. But okay, yeah,
And so.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
He hired Robert Horn. And Robert had been working on
it for about a year and had an outline, and
Robert felt very strongly that the music should be written
by Nashville songwriters and not Broadway composers. So he wanted
to come to Nashville and choose the team to write it,
and so he interviewed several teams that day and he
chose Shane and myself and.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Ten years ago.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, and so Shane's I always measure it by Shane's
kids because they're ten. They were born in Palm Springs.
I flew out to Palm Springs to meet him when
they were a couple days old. Robert Horn lives in
la He drove down to Palm Springs showed us that
first we already had seen the outline, but he started
kind of talking us through how to write a musical.
(05:50):
And so those kids were born in December. The first
writing appointment of that next year, which would have been
twenty twenty three or twenty thirteen, we started writing and
we wrote. We wrote for he Haw for a while.
He hawt it in test Well with Broadway audiences, and
so then it was changed to Moonshine.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
The name didn't not I mean, obviously the name and
the brand. If you don't know the brand, the name's
not going to work for you. Yes, that's why it
did seem too like Hillbilly, I guess so.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
And that was something Shane and I really fought for.
We loved the idea of taking he Haw to Broadway,
and we loved just the way the title looked and sounded.
We actually loved everything that was going against it. But
we got out voted. So then it became Moonshine that
he haa musical. We opened it in Dallas with the
hopes of it going to Broadway. It didn't. We got
(06:40):
very mixed reviews. It kind of got scrapped. And then
Robert Horn, once again, our book writer, won a Tony
for Tutsie. He wrote the book for Tutsie, and when
that happened, he had all this interest of what do
you want your next show to be? And he said
he wanted it to be this, and so we got
new At that point, Steve Buchanan was no longer at Opry.
(07:02):
We got a new producer, new director, you know, the opry.
We had to get the underlying rights from the Opry,
which we did and we just started over. It was
other than Shane and Robert and myself, and it became shocked.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Did you rewrite every song?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Most of them? There are two songs that were in
that Dallas production that are still in the show.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
When you say mixed reviews for the Dallas production, what
did the best review say that you can remember paraphrasing
you know, I.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Don't remember because I kind of try to stay away
from them. You know, probably that it was funny and
that the music was catchy.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
The worst reviews said that Ore. I'll remember those, you
know that are that our leading lady was a dim bulb.
I remember that really bothered me, and so when we
started over to me, it became really important for her
to not come across as dumb, because.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Do you think that was a written It wasn't her
the actress, never the act It was her character that
was al yes, and they were talking about the character
more than got it.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
And then it was you know, that original version, it
played a lot on some old stereotypes that you know.
I'm glad that version didn't go to Broadway because I'm
from a small town. Our setting is Cobb County. To me,
that's where I'm from, and so I love that people
from where I'm from, Lewis County come and see it
(08:23):
and love it. I would hate for them to come
and see it and think, oh, they're making fun of
rural people, because that was never the intent. But that
first version I think had some of that going on
in it.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
That's interesting that you think that, because I'm also from
a town of less than a thousand people. You know,
I think there were seven hundred when I was there,
and there's like five eighty now, So it's going the
wrong way. Yeah, But whenever I do my comedy, I
can make fun of my small town or small towns
or rednecks or hill because I am one. If I
(08:55):
was at a Broadway show and I felt like somebody
that wasn't me was making fun of me, I would
feel a little weird about that too.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
So the fact that that you had that kind of sensibility, well,
there were.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Things because Robert Horne, our book writer, who really he
was leading the charge as far as the comedy and
the tone. There were things that both Shane and I
said to him were offensive as coming from a smaller town.
My town was nine hundred or just country and he's
from New York City. And he was so great about
(09:30):
really listening to that, being empathetic and making some changes.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
That's really cool. At what point did you go, what
point did you think this is over? Because I've had
a couple of projects where I'm like it's over and
then it in the end it worked out, worked itself out,
or it was a TV show or something. But did
you ever think it was done?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yes, several times, And there were times I wanted it
to be over, honestly, you know, because I kept I
couldn't let go of it, nor could Shane and Robert.
But I started to feel at times like is this
just this rabbit hole that is just taking and not giving.
After Dallas, I thought it might be over. And then
(10:08):
a couple of times after we restarted, you know, I
remember we did a reading and Robert Horne said, I
feel like if something doesn't happen, happen from this reading,
it's done. And something would happen, yes, like meaning like
an out of town theater wanted to take it because
we went to we went to Connecticut and.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
A table read, So what's a reading?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
So it can be as small as a table read,
or in this case, it would be where the actors,
say we had thirteen or fifteen actors, they're sitting down
and then when it's their turn to speak, they stand
up with a with a music stand that has their
script and their music on it, so they don't memorize anything.
But there's no choreography.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Who's watching this.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Potential producers, theater owners.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So it's like a showcase.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
It's totally like, yes, completely like a record label showcase.
And I would say that the last time that I
thought it might be done was right before we did
our final out of town last fall in Salt Lake
City at the Pioneer Theater and our producer had secured
a Broadway theater for us, and then it fell through
(11:19):
and we had never We weren't going to salt Lake
with the intent of getting picked up, because that's not
really where you go to get picked up. You go
to Chicago or Seattle or you know, Boston to get
the to get the attention of a Broadway theater owner.
We were going to salt Lake because it was under
the radar, we could work out some kinks. And so
(11:41):
when that theater fell through right before Salt Lake, I
had hesitation to even go to salt Lake because because
I thought, oh, man, I know we're not going to
get a Broadway theater coming out of Salt Lake. What
are we doing? And then a couple of days later
we had another theater. So that was that was the
last time I thought this might fall apart.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Was there ever a moment where it was the total
opposite after Salt Lake where you go, oh, not only
is this not falling apart, this is just clicking the
right exact way.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I mean, I'm probably get emotional talking about it the
first preview because I realized I had prepared myself for
it to fail, because you know, most do. And and
also in all those years, you're hearing way more criticism
than you're hearing praise. You know, you you watch the show,
be it in Salt Lake or be it a reading
(12:34):
in New York City, and you everybody that's on the
creative team, from the director to the choreographer to the
music director to all of us to the the lead producer,
you get in a room and you talk about what's
not right. Yes, And so we had been talking about
that in this last iteration for five years. So the
first preview, when those people reacted the way they did,
(12:58):
which was a mis mid first act standing ovation, you know,
standing ovation at the end.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
What's a mid first act standing ovation that's not interrupting
the show? Yes, it is. Yes, like at the end
of a singing, yes you have to part in my.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
No, no no, I love this. Alex Newall, who won the Tony
sang a song called Independently Own and it blows the
roof off and that got a standing ovation. It gets
a standing ovation most nights, and so I kind of
expected that, and especially with the first preview because there
would be friends and family, but I knew it felt
(13:37):
it felt different. And then when when when overnight, the
man that worked the box office at the Neerlander Theater
told me that in thirty five years he'd never seen
word of mouth that quick. We had no sales, and
then overnight we were selling out. And so that's when
I really knew. I mean, I think I cried for
(13:58):
about twenty four hours because I just I just couldn't
believe it, and I also didn't realize how much I
had prepared myself for it to not work.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Do you think part of that because I made a
little mental note when you said that a minute ago.
I do the same thing with everything I try. I
go to therapy, I try to get better at not
have an expectation of failure. But we are in an
industry where it's failure most of the time. Like most
of the time it's failure, Yes, because if you're creating,
you're not spending all year creating a song and going
(14:28):
this is my one song about No, you're writing a
bunch of songs. Some of those songs you're writing aren't
even making it to the next level, which is do
we It's just so much failure and I already I'm
super insecure. So do you think that that is a
bit based on being a songwriter in this town or
how you grew up.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I think it's all of it. With that, I think
it was really just ten years of a lot of
it getting kicked in the teeth.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Isn't that a songwriter too?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
I mean I just accept with that you're at least
getting little gl you know, Shane and I would get
the show to a point where we would love it.
My goal was by the time we got to Broadway,
I didn't want one cringe worthy song because in every
version there was always one song that made us cringe, like, oh,
let's just get through this one. We know it's not right,
(15:15):
we don't know what it is yet. But you know,
when we would get the show where we loved it,
we would have to make a big change, Like there
would be a plot change that would maybe change nine songs.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Wow, you know, because there's a full element, like a
fundamental element of the show that's changed. You can't sing
about the same thing because they are the same exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Wow. And so basically what it was like, I think
we wrote enough songs in those ten years for ten albums.
So it was like you've been writing a record for
ten years. Nine of them have been scrapped. And keep
in mind nine of those records, there are songs on
those records that you actually think are better than some
of what's on this record that's about to come out.
(15:57):
And so I think it was just that. And I
also think we were such underdogs. You know, people called
us the corn Musical, which was great. It worked for
us that nobody took us us seriously, and so I
think there was that element too. And I had always honestly,
I would always tell people and I did believe this
(16:20):
and still believe it. I said, we're either going to
be a massive hit or a massive flop. It won't
be in between. I'm betting on the hit, or I
wouldn't still be in it. But I think that there
was more of me that thought it might flop than
I realized, And it probably is all those things.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Walk me through because I was just looking at a
picture and it just happened to pop up before you
walk down. That's where my mind was before we talk
about your music. But walk me through the quick plot
of Shucked.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Okay, So, Cobb County is a county that is or
a town that's surrounded by corn. No one's ever left
no one's ever come to it. The only way you
can live in Cobb County is if you're born there.
The corn starts to die, and that's their only way
of life, so they don't know any other way. Nobody
(17:05):
wants to leave, nobody wants to let anybody in. But
there's one girl, Maizie, who's brave enough to leave and
knows that the only way they're going to survive is
to leave and get help. So her grandpa doesn't want
her to go, her cousin doesn't want her to go,
her fiance doesn't want her to go. She goes anyway.
She goes to the big city of Tampa, where she
(17:28):
sees the sign for a corn doctor and thinks, ooh,
my problems are solved. She walks into the corn doctor's office,
who's actually a pediatrist, but he's also a con man,
and she tells him there's something wrong with my corn,
and she pulls out an ear of moldy corn. He
laughs and says, oh, I think you're mistaken, and she's like, no,
(17:48):
you got to help me. If you don't help me,
my whole town will perish. And a bracelet falls off
of her wrist and he sees it and notices this
unique stone that is under her grandpa's house, and he
knows that those stones are worth something, and so he
pretends to be a vegetable corn doctor and she takes
(18:08):
him back to Cobb County and the you know, he
comes back and everybody's kind of wary of him, but
then they embrace him and maybe he's not such a
bad guy after all. Be once he feels the love
of this community, and you know, it makes her her
fiance and her breakup.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
But in the end, I don't want to spoilers, okay,
because I now I want to see it. Yes, now, okay,
that's really cool. Congratulations. That is a process ten years. Yeah,
it's almost like a relationship, like there's good times and
bad times. I think it was going to make it
at some point and in the end.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
And you know, Shane and Shane mcneally and I have
worked on so many things, but this musical really it'sponded
us for life because there were there were some bad times,
you know, and there were a lot of good times.
But in ten years you live a lot of life,
and you know, he and I went through a lot
together on it as well as Robert Horn, who's like,
(19:06):
they're both like my brothers, and you know, we just
we're going to do another one. Really yeah, I mean
I don't quite know what it is yet. We're interviewing
some potential ideas, but you know, the three of us
are a great team, and some of that is that
we can make it through some tough times.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
What's the most lasting standing ovation that you've ever gotten?
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Me?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Like, well, performing singing. I don't know that's a question
that I ask often, but whenever I hear you sing, like,
I feel like my guts are moving a little bit,
I think, oh, thank you because of how you are
a songwriter and also your voice.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Well, I would say I have two answers because I
would say, in some ways shucked is that? Because what
I love about that experience is I forget that I
wrote songs, really, and so when people start to stand
up and I start to stand up too, I'm like,
oh wow, I'm standing up for me here. I didn't
(20:08):
even realize it. But man, lasting standing ovation, I mean,
anytime there's a standing ovation, I love it. A lot
of times when I do something just me and my guitar,
it's fresh in my mind right now, but I'm out
right now with Mary Chapin Carpenter, who's a big musical
hero of mine. And the other night I was playing
(20:29):
and I have a song called Buried on my most
recent record, and I play it in the middle of
the show and and I got a partial standing ovation
for that in the middle of the set.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
That's like the first act.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, yeah, that really that really hit me. Anytime there's
a standing ovation, I love it. And you know, I
kind of love it more when I'm out in support
of someone than when it's me. That's the head you
come out and they don't, you know, they that's their
time to go to the bathroom or get a drink
(21:02):
or whatever. And when you can hold them long enough
that by the time you're coming off stage they've become
a fan enough to stand up, it's pretty huge.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah. I never thought about it like that. If your support,
because the audience they may like you, but most of
them didn't go to see whoever the support is, Yeah,
not you or anybody. You know, it's almost never do
I go. I wonder who the sport act is for?
Ben Rector. Yes, so yeah, that would be really I'd
have some no confidence if it's my.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Show and they don't stand up. I feel like I've failed.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
It's a drastic difference in the two show. Yeah, you
have confidence in yourself generally.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I have good core confidence, you know. I mean, I
have insecurities, just like everybody. But I'm lucky and I
guess it was my parents and that I genuinely like
myself for the most part. But I think the nature
of what we do makes it hard to be confident sometimes.
But I have to just walk out and pretend I'm confident.
(22:04):
I'm sure you do the same thing.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, I'm never confident. I'm only confident once I'm shown
that I should have been confident fifteen minutes ago. Yeah,
like I was already faking it. But now I'm getting
some feedback that it's good. So still confident. But I
really wasn't fifteen minutes ago.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
But you know, the other thing is I don't know
anybody who's really great who doesn't struggle with that a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
I have a crazy imposter syndrome. Or it's I talked
to my wife and if I'm like I need to
go do this show, I need to do this TV
show or whatever, She's like, why you don't evenly want
to do it. I'm like, but if I lose momentum,
I'll never get it back. Like I have this absolute
fear of if I ever slow down, that I don't
really have the skills or the talent to catch back
up to where I am now. And if that's a
(22:50):
poster syndrome or if it's just reality, I don't know,
but I struggle with that with taking breaks because of that,
I don't know that I'm very confident in a certain
skill set, but I wonder, like I know what I'm
driven from, fear, Like I'm driven from a small town fear.
I'm creative because of similar situations. It was kind of
(23:11):
my way out. Where did yours come from?
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Well, definitely like creativity.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Just creativity and drive, well, my artist, the artist part
of year.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
My drive definitely came from my dad. My dad was
maybe the most driven person I've ever known. Whatever it was.
My grandma used to say it was a good thing
my dad didn't drink or smoke, because he would have
been a terrible alcoholic or a chain smoker. Like, whatever
it was, it was all the way. I remember when
I was getting out of high school, I wanted to
get into this. It was called the STP Seattle to
(23:45):
Portland Bike Ride. It was one hundred and ninety five
miles and I was going to school the next year
in a basketball scholarship and needed a way to stay
in shape. So I saw that as the way, and
so I started training for it. One of my high
school basketball coach was going to do it with me,
and then he had to have a hip replacement. So
two weeks before, I'm stuck without a writing partner, and
(24:08):
my dad said he would do it with me.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Two weeks before, two weeks before, no training.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
No training, and my dad was one of these people.
My dad was in good shape, but you know it's different,
and so we did the ride. We did it in
two days. I remember when we got done, my dad said,
I'm never getting on a bike again. That was on Sunday.
By Wednesday, my dad had bought a racing bike. The
(24:32):
next year, he did it in a paceline in eight hours.
That was my dad, So I definitely got drive from him.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Hang ty, the Bobby Cast will be right back, and
we're back on the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I've never had a drink and I can't. I don't smoke.
I can't because I'll do it all. Like your grandma
would say about your dad, greatest drinker of all time,
I would dominate it. It'd be amazing. I've never had
a single drink because I know I get obsessed or
even addicted to everything, and I have those qualities throughout
my family. A lot of my founders have died from addiction.
So but I kind of replace addiction with an addiction
(25:16):
to drive, and sometimes they it's easy to get confused
even to myself on what they are, Like is it
a drive or am I addicted to work? You know,
as I try to find like some sort of worth.
Your Dad's had a great example for you on drive.
Do you have addictive quality? Is it an addictive quality
type thing?
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Well, you know, I believe we're all kind of addicts.
We just get addicted to the healthy things or not.
I mean, I mean I can definitely be addicted, like
to food. I mean, I wish it was a sexier addiction, but.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I have no moderation. Yeah, yeah, none.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah. It's like I'm either eating seriously clean or I'm
postmating two pints of Jenny's ice cream and the next
day I'm like where did those go? Like there's no moderation.
I'm that way too. I think, I like, I'm pretty driven.
Its it's a competitive thing. I wish it wasn't as competitive.
(26:12):
I wish I have friends who are artists and they
just are They just love music and you know, I mean,
I love music and I love I love creating, but
I also want to win. I wish sometimes I wish
I didn't have that as much.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
I'm horribly competitive. Yeah, again, but all minds from insecurities.
It sounds like yours was a great example. Yes, and
then kind of pursuit with some of it to kind
of be like or with your dad, do you think?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yes? And I really I lost my dad young. I
was twenty not as young as some people, but I
was twenty five, and those really young years of my life,
I was really into sports, and I think that was
because of my dad. And I'm I really feel lucky
that I that that was my passion then because we
were close because of that, we would have been close anyway.
(27:03):
But I've been lucky enough to be My parents were
great parents, and then as I've gotten older, my mom's
also a great friend. You know, She's always my mom.
But I feel lucky that I had that athletic drive
young because I wasn't going to have my dad a
long time. My mom was musical, and so as I
(27:23):
got older, music sort of became the thing, and that
brought her an eye even closer.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
So I think at all a part of your life though,
like thirteen, Yes, it was.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
It was. I started playing guitar when I was nine,
and I always just assumed everybody's mom played piano, and
because my mom did those things, like if we liked
a song, my mom could could hammer it out on
the piano. I was in the Music Man. That was
my first music thing. I was Amaryllis in The Music Man.
And so after that I started like taking voice lessons
(27:55):
and got more into guitar, but it would go in
and out because of sports. But once I got out
of high school, music took the place of what sports
was That then became my sport.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
The thing you worked at, yes, goals, yes, yeah, because
it's hard to unkind of ravel yourself from the competitive
mindset of sports sports sports, sports, well, no, nothing right,
So it's again when I was talking about it for
me after like replace addictions mm hmm, and not that
it was an addiction but if you were always pushing
toward this sports goal and now you have no goal,
I can see where you could be lost a little
(28:28):
bit or no direction.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yeah. When I first quit playing basketball because I went
to college on a basketball scholarship and I really was
burnt out by then.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Your identity to the basketball player totally.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I thought that was why people liked me. I still,
you know. I talked about this to a therapist one time.
I said I always felt like I needed something to
hook somebody in and she said, what do you mean?
And I said, well, my longest friend in life is
a girl named Rachel. I said, Rachel didn't have to
do anything like everybody just loved Rachel. I said I
had to be like good in sports and then good
(28:59):
in me music to hook people in. And she's like, no, you,
that's what you need to hook you in to liking you.
And I think that's probably probably true. But yeah, my
identity was very wrapped up, and when I quit playing basketball,
I had probably six months of who am I? And
then I started getting really back into music, and then
(29:22):
that became my identity. I wish I didn't have so
much wrapped in it, but I just do. And if
for some reason this went away, it'd be something else.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah. Same. I struggle with that a lot, separating like
who I real I am and who I am and
they sometimes I get confused. I'm lucky I have a
wife now that will go, hey, yo, this is you know,
there are priorities, and I get this is a priority
of yours and it's important, but let's evaluate the real
(29:54):
human and then the career person.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
That's tough, and.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
So it's tough for me to even kind of understand
and that I have to separate those because I was
on my own until thirty nine. I mean I never
had a serious girlfriend. I had girlfriends and under the
million and I met her and then it was like
a reality pill and it hurts, hurt to swallow sometimes
when you start to get that that like, oh, so
that's been difficult for me. Do you have anybody for
(30:18):
you that's like, Okay, here's the deal this. You're kind
of awful, little you kind off track a little bit personally.
Can Shane do that?
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Well? I mean I probably do that.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
For him absolutely, so I would assume is it.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, No, we're good for each other that way. You know,
he and I are like you know soulmates in.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
A lot of ways, or you can get mad at them,
but it doesn't mean you're not going to be their
friend anymore. I think that's a that's a new that's
a point in relationship, that's you just bonded.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah we're family, you know, and and totally like he
and I really do lean on each other. I can
tell him really really thinks I'm super insecure about and
him for me, and yeah, we can kind of ground
each other. And he's really been great lately at at balance,
you know, like he's really he's amazing for me to watch.
(31:07):
He's a great dad. His kids are a real priority.
You know, he's spending a lot of time out in
Santa Barbara now because that's where he's happiest, that's where
his sobriety's easiest, and that that's inspiring to me. I
don't struggle with that with the same things. I definitely
do struggle with having my identity all wrapped up in
(31:30):
this though. That's a that's a big one.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
You your album, What's I got to say? Rare? You've
self titled this project, and usually that happens the very
first it's like, hello, I'm this person I've self titled it.
I've been a fan for years and now it's self titled.
I was a little confused. I'm like, am I looking
at the wrong record here? So why were talking about identity?
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Why?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Why do that? Here?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
So funny story and then and then a real story.
But so when Brandy Carlisle approached me about he had
really like to make a record on you, she said
I see it as your return to the Northwest. And
that was intriguing to me. And I was talking to
Jesse Joe Dillon, who's a great friend and collaborator, and
(32:15):
I wasn't sure what I wanted to do on this record,
and I said, you know, Brandy Carlisle has been talking
to me about potentially working with her. And Jesse said,
what do you like about that? And I said, well,
one of the things she said that really intrigues me
most is that she sees it as my return to
the Northwest. And Jesse says, wow, b we should go
(32:36):
up to the Northwest and write some songs, and so
we did, and one of those was a song called Northwest.
It's on this record. And so I then had this
massive idea of, oh, we're going to call this record Northwest,
and I had all the artwork in my head, but
every time I would say that to somebody, they would say, well,
you know that's Kim and Kanye's kid, rightest. Oh, yeah,
(32:59):
you're right, yes, And I hadn't thought of that, And
so then I got off of that and I was like,
what am I going to call this? And it just
you know, the process of making this was so there
was a lot of challenge in it and I and
I felt by the end of it there wasn't anything
else I wanted to call it but Brandy Clark, And
(33:21):
since I hadn't self titled something, it worked.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Why Brandy Carlisle as in what about her? As a producer?
I love her music has been super cool to me,
wonderful freaking singer, Like you know, I'll tell her she's
the Mount Rushmore. She is, But as a producer, I
don't know that part of her.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
I didn't either. It was a leap of faith, you know,
And what really drew me to her was her confidence.
You know, she she was so confident that she should
make this record.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
And did you already want to make a record? And
did you talk to her like she you said, she
came out, I can't want to make a record on
you does?
Speaker 1 (33:59):
She just well, no, it started. What started was when
we were in the pandemic and I had made Your
Life as a record with Jay Joyce, who's who I
loved working with genius producer. The label wanted to waterfall it.
They wanted to put out a few more songs, and
Jay's schedule didn't line up to do it, and so
(34:19):
I just thought, well, we're not going to be able
to waterfall it. And then Tracy Gershawn said to me,
have you ever thought about doing a couple of songs
with Brandy Carlisle? And I said, oh, yeah, that'd be cool.
Let's try it. You know, it felt very like an
easy thing. It wasn't you know. It wasn't like it
was a whole album. And so we did. We cut
(34:42):
two songs and tack them onto Your Life as a record.
One of them was nominated for a Grammy. And the
way it started with her producing whole record was she
said that when we didn't win that Grammy that she
looked over and she said, I looked so sad. Now
I don't remember feeling particularly sad, but I'm glad I
did because it spurred her to say. She goes, hey, buddy,
(35:06):
I want to make a whole record on you. That
was how it started. I didn't know how serious she was,
but when her and I sat down, and you know,
she talked to me about how passionate she was about
it and how she felt like there was a part
of me that she could get on record that no
one else could. And I think it is because she's
such a great singer. I always think a producer leads
(35:28):
with their instrument if they were a guitar player first,
that's that's their entry point. For her, she's a singer,
so that's that's her entry point, and so she can
ask things of an artist vocally that other producers can't.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Does she give example if she's like, I haven't been
in the studio with you, but she could go like, ooh,
does she do like examples of what she wants you
to try to chase?
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Well, yeah, I mean she would sing it to you like, hey,
I know you can do.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
This, So she would push you yes by showing you
what she wants wanted to push you to Yes. Was
there of a moment like I can't do that? But
then you did? Because she just kind.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Of no, because I didn't want to say I couldn't,
you know. And also the other way she would push
is I love something perfect, And she'd push for flawed things,
you know, like no, no, no, leave that vocal alone.
That's that. Sure you might be able to sing it better,
(36:25):
but you can't sing it truer, like don't don't do
it again. You know. She's great that way, and also
great at asking Okay, is this really what you want
to say? Is this really what you mean here? In
a way that I think probably only another artist that
can do that's her. That's her gift as a producer
(36:46):
is that she's an artist.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Sounds like you have to trust well a producer, but
her a lot in the situation in ways that she's
challenging you totally.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
I mean, yeah, she's like.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Do you want to say it like this? If any
the right person asking me that, I'm like, what do
you mean? You don't tell me how I want to
say it? Oh?
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Well, my ego definitely got bruised in the beginning, and
I realized the first day we were in the studio
together was was kind of a tough day because you know,
she it was the day after the cmas And and
I had been part of that Lindyville performance and we
were recording in La oh actually Malibu a shangri Law,
which was a really amazing experience Rick Rubin's studio, and
(37:27):
she came in hot, you know, and I don't know
if I was just tired from from having just flown
in there from here, but I definitely the first day
thought wow, is this going to work? And some of that,
I think was that at that point I wasn't looking
at Brandy as a producer. I was looking at her
as another artist. And the next morning we met and
(37:51):
really like talked it out and I just said, you know, Brandy,
I'm just going to trust you. I'm gonna I'm gonna
do it your way on some of these things. And
after that happened, it was like the heavens opened. And
I think it was mostly me, you know, just giving
her that rope that I was maybe hanging on to
a little too tight.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Are you a control freak?
Speaker 1 (38:12):
No, not really. I mean I'm sure about.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Certain things, but just not generally across the board. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
No, I'm not a control freak about most things.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
I mean, you're a perfectionist, yes, But I think.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Perfect is different for everybody, you know. I mean, I
have my idea of what the perfect song is, and
a lot of that's based on being here and being
in writing rooms for twenty plus years and the idea
of the craft of songwriting. I think that's part of
why her and I were a great marriage on this,
(38:47):
because she hasn't done that. She likes things a little messier,
and so I think between the two we ended in
a spot that I was really happy with.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
What is her producing style? I can just see a
deducer on the other side of the glass, pushing the button,
doing the talk through. Okay do this or was she
in the vocal booth? What is she like?
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Oh, she's in it. You know. She's always playing something,
be it guitar, piano, even if it's not it ultimately
in the track, which most times it is. No, she's
right in the middle of it. I think to make
sure it feels right. Because Brandy is somebody and this
was another thing that drew me to her when we
did those first two songs. She's all got instinct, and
(39:27):
so I think to be that, you have to be
in it and be feeling it.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
The Bobby cast will be right back. This is the
Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Why I like you as a songwriter is your stuff
always feels personal. Even if I can't identify what feels
so personal about it to you, I can always feel
something personal about it with me. Oh, I love it
like I feel like. That's why I'm such a big
fan of your music is that it is very personal.
But sometimes I can I can. If I can't finger
and put my finger on exactly what you're talking about
(40:06):
personal to you, I can always associate it with something
to me. With so much of your music. That being said,
these songs feel even more personal, like honestly than stuff
that I've heard before. One purpose is that? Was that purposeful?
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Like?
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Did you push yourself to do that? And then two
is there ever a point where you're like, man, is
this too personal where no one's going to relate to it?
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Yeah? Both things, And I got to say that first.
The first thing, I really do a tribute to Brandy
because when she said are you sure you want to
say this? She asked me to change lyrics that didn't
There was a line in Buried that said, I'll read
lonesome dub, I'll start doing yoga and takes some trippy
(40:49):
drug makes me forget I even know you. And she's like,
I don't like that yoga line. That bugged me bad.
I said, why don't you like that yoga line? And
she goes, cause I just don't even think you do yoga.
I said, well I don't. She said, well why are
you putting it in this song? Then everything else is,
you know, so it changed it. So a lot of that,
(41:11):
some of there were little things like that that made things,
you know, this much more personal. And I never realized
when I'm writing songs, because I'm always writing songs, I
never I just I just never know, you know. Sometimes
they're for me, sometimes they're for someone else. And there
were songs. Lenny Warnicker at Warner is the first person
(41:31):
who pointed out just how personal they were. And he said, man,
these songs like I thought your life as a record
was really personal, but these are even more personal. And
I said, oh really, I didn't. I can't imagine that
they'd be more personal than that. And he said, well, yeah,
like dear Insecurity, like that's you're talking about you. He said,
(41:52):
You've written songs that are personal about relationships or situations,
but you on this record, you have songs that are
about you and your deep feelings and so and that
got a little scary. And then a song like she
Smoked in the House, I thought that was way too personal.
I wrote that Grandma. Yeah, I thought I wrote that
(42:13):
just because I was missing my grandma. It was a
way to be with my grandma to write that. I
turned it in because I turned everything in. I did
not expect one person to say, oh, you should record this,
and everyone did.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Yeah, And now that I'm out playing it and the
record's out, it's one I don't think I could get
away with not playing it live.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
I love my grandma adopted me for a long time,
so that song I was drawn to. That's why I
knew when you said the song. But I mean that
is one too that I that I heard and was like, well,
this is so easily such a great song. It's just
funny to think how we all feel about things that
we make in the moment we make them, and how
that can change. Because again, if you're writing here, you're
feeling a certain way, but going I don't think really this,
(42:55):
I hear it and go, how could this not be
a thing?
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah? Yeah, I think you know, I just being too
close to it. But it's also a good reminder of
you know, write what you love and what you know,
and other people will love it, know it like you've
you know you you hear your grandma in it. There
are people that have their grandma was nothing like my grandma.
(43:18):
Like they'll say, my grandma didn't smoke, but man, that
part about cutting the mold off candel open cheese, that
was my grandma. So it's just it's a That song
is a great reminder to me to write what matters.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
So why how would you be inspired by Forrest Gump?
Speaker 1 (43:32):
So on a writing retreat, Jimmy Robbins, Jesse Joe Dillon
and we were watching Forrest Gump the first night when
when we were there we had written something else that day,
and there's that scene where Jenny's throwing rocks at the
house she grew up in and Forrest says, you know,
sometimes they're just staying enough rocks, and Jesse Joe actually said,
(43:53):
I've always wanted to write that.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
That makes sense now, Yeah, the title you were literally
watching Forrest Gump, Yeah, I came up. That's do you
ever go? Maybe we don't tell anybody who wrote this
about Forrest Gump or are you just like we got
to let everybody know because I love that. It's forced me.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I probably tell too much,
and it probably be a better story if I if
I made something else up. But that's just the truth
about that one.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Your mom you mentioned her earlier. To play with your
mom and to be in a band with your mom, Yeah,
what was that like for you?
Speaker 1 (44:27):
It was great and even greater looking back on it,
because once again as a kid, it was just like
I kind of thought that's what everybody did. But I
realize just how special that is. And my mom is
so responsible for so much of the music I love
and for you know, my parents, they really they sacrificed
for us. Like we lived in a single wide trailer
(44:50):
that they that they were modeled into more of the
size of a double wide when we got older. But
I think about all the things we got inside of
that trailer, Like we got to do music lessons, we
got to play whatever sports we wanted. And they didn't drive.
You know, I'm sure they would wish they would, or
at the time maybe they wanted to drive a different car,
but it was more important for us to me to
(45:12):
play guitar and my brother to play violin if that's
what we wanted. So we were really lucky and they
took us even though we grew up in a really
small area. They took us to a lot of things,
like in Seattle and Tacoma. I remember, you know, going
to the Puaette Faarre and Seye and Ronnie millsap. That
was the first concert I saw. They took us to
(45:32):
the Perfect Ten Tour, which was when Mary lou Retten
and all the gymnasts from the nineteen eighty four Olympic
team were in I think they were in Seattle. We
got to do things like that. They'd take us to
folk life festivals and we'd see all this music and
all these different instruments, and you know, just they really
they were great parents in a lot of ways. In
(45:55):
one of the bigger ways was just culturally. They exposed
us to a lot.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
When you moved to Nashville because you went to Belmont, Yes,
well did you move from Washington State to Belmont?
Speaker 1 (46:06):
I did.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
That's a significant move. Yeah, and so was it. I'm
going to do music, I need to go to where
the music is and this is the school.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Well, a funny story. Yes, I wanted to do music,
and it was also really important to me to finish
college for some reason. You know, when I was paying
off my student LUNs into my thirties, I was like,
why did I do this? But I had seen on
Crick and Chase that Trisha Yearwood went to Belmont, and
so that made me want to go to Belmont. And
(46:34):
I'm still glad I went. But it was when I
moved here, I felt like I had moved to a
foreign country.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
It was so different, even in what ways stuck out
to you most because I know the area where you're from.
I tore a lot, so I feel like that's not
the same. But if there were a group of people
that were similar but not the same, it would be
people from the Northwest. You know, we're on the airport,
like rural Portland, Louis Seattle. Like they're just real on people,
(47:00):
real comma, honest people.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
I feel mostly, yes, oh like people here, I think
just geographically Like. One of my favorite things when I
moved here, and I used to do this and I
don't know why I thought this was fun, was how
fast you could get to other states. I would get
in my car and just drive to Alabama or just
drive to Kentucky, like because where I was from in Washington,
it took you a day to get across the state.
(47:24):
So that was different, like it could be so many
places so quick.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
I'm like that with Europe. Yes you can go to
a country.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Yes, same thing.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Oh like Ireland's the size of Iowa. I can just
be over and yes, yeah, that's that is crazy.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
So that was very different. The fact that they were
interstates and not freeways. That felt just now when I
go home and I say interstate, people look at me
like I'm crazy, and I'm like, well, it's I five.
You know, that's what it means, Interstate five. And then religion.
You know, where I'm from, it's not that people aren't religious,
(47:58):
but it's not as it's not so much in the culture.
You know there when I got here, I felt like
there was a church on every corner. And then going
to Belmont, I don't know if it still is, but
at the time it was a Baptist university and so
that was a different a different thing to me to
take Bible classes. And so those were the major differences.
(48:19):
And then the weather, you know, humidity. I didn't know
what humidity was when I moved here.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Boy welcome, Yeah, freaking sucks.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
I actually, you know, it's so funny though. I was
telling somebody the other day that was talking about how
much they hate humidity. I said, I don't and I
and I was like, and you know why, because when
I moved here, my grandma said to me, You're gonna
love it there, but you're gonna hate the humidity. And
I just decided I'm not gonna hate it. And so
my mom and I landed and it was super humid.
We got here in August, and I said, I just
(48:49):
love this humidity.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
That works. I just love mayonnaise never worked for me.
I hate man as I said that.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
You know.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
So with the record and just to go back to
it here again, I've heard so many songs that you
have written and that you have sang and that you
have written, and other people of saying on this record
specifically that you're singing. Which of these songs did you finish?
And go, oh man, I got like the tingles that
said that felt like, what's the most.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Dear in security?
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (49:20):
For sure? Well and up above the clouds those two
I knew the day that those were written. You know
and Dearing's security. We made some changes on that in
the studio to make it even more my insecurities than
it already was. But both of those I knew like, oh,
this is this is something like and this is something
(49:42):
I want from me. I knew that right away.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
What are you doing for fun? It just it's it's
a lot. You have a lot going on professionally, and
this is what people ask me, like, you look like
you're driving yourself. What are you doing at all this
hang out? You know?
Speaker 1 (49:53):
I mean, well, and I'll get I want to say
something about you really quick, because I always say this
to other people. Okay, you are so good, and it's
because you share your vulnerabilities, you know, like people would
talk about Barbara Walters, they'd be like, man, everybody cries
in Barbara Walters. I think you're as good as Barbara
Walters in your own way. And it's because you talk
(50:15):
about yourself, like when you you know, like you're talking about, Oh,
I'm a workholic. You didn't say that, but it's your
gift as an interviewer. I just wanted to say that
you can.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Leave that or cut that gift is not accepting compliments.
I just feel awkward. But I thank you. That's very
kind to be from you. That means a whole lot,
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
It's true. I was telling everybody that I listened to
you this podcast, and if I really like somebody, I
like them more. And if I kind of don't like
somebody and I listen to your podcasts and I still
don't like them, I know. Okay, my instinct's right, because
the real person's going to come out.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Right. It is an hour. It is intense, it is,
and intensity maybe isn't the word, but it is. It's
very intimate. Here we are you, I mean, and luckily
I know you. Yeah, but it's just me and you.
We only have each other to depend on. M hmm.
If one of us stops talking, or if I ask
a stupid question, I need you to bail me out
and give me an answer that makes me look halfway decent,
(51:11):
or if you I mean, it is a very it's
a relationship, yes, and so yeah, it is a anybody
that I've ever interviewed for a long period of time,
their real self comes out eventually.
Speaker 1 (51:21):
Yeah, you get to it, I think, And I think
it's because your real self, you're not afraid to talk
about your frailties, which is that's that gets other people
talking about theirs. I really noticed it. A friend of
mine and one of my favorite peoples, Sonny Sweeney, when
I heard her podcast with you, I called her or
I texted her and just was like, oh my god,
this was so great. She was great.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
She was so great.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Oh she's awesome. So for fun, and you're asking me that,
and I got off track. I love sports still, you know,
I mean, I'm so excited football's starting. College football would
be I know you're a big razorback.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
Do you have a team? U T Tennessee.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
I chose that when I moved here, and here was
why I'm moved here, and I one of the places
I would go was North Carolina, which was which was further,
but I had friends there still there, and when I
would drive, I had never seen coll it. I mean,
I always loved college football, but not it's not like
it is here anywhere else. And so I'd be driving
(52:19):
from here from here over to North Carolina. The whole
way to Knoxville, I would see these orange and white
pom poms out of cars and I just thought, you
know what, I want them to be my team. I'm
at Tennessee and now and that's that's that's it for me.
Now I still root for the Washington Huskies. You know,
it'd be tough for me if the Huskies were playing
(52:41):
ut But I love college football. I love college basketball
me too. I love track. I was terrible in track
and field myself.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
You love track like a watch track.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Oh, if there's a track, meet on, I'm watching it.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Where's the track? Meaning on?
Speaker 1 (52:56):
There are some of those like higher sports channels, you know,
like like.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
Bally's twelve nineteen. Yes, every once in a while there
the Olympics. Then.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
I love the Olympics. In fact, when they when they
started alternating it where you get the Olympics every two
years instead of just every four that was a red
letter day in my life because I used to wait
all those four years for the Olympics, and now you
only have to wait too. It's great.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
And where you come from, I guess you guys had
a winter.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
Too, Yes, not a not a harsh winter.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
Enough winter though to understand some of the winter sports. Oh, yes,
cause we don't. I mean, I'm from Arkansas. I don't
know anything about skiing.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
Yes, no, And I and I didn't know them, but
like my dad knew people who were Olympic skiers, so
that and and other people. You know, Oh, I went
to school with so and so who who was an
Olympic skier or ice skaters? Tanya Harding. That was a
big thing my senior year in high school was the
whole Tanya Harding thing.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
And that was yes, whackening the knee of Carigan.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
Yeah, because Tanya Harding would train at I think it
was the Clackamas Town Center, which was in Oregon, which
where I grew up. Going to Portland was as close
to as going to Seattle, and I remember I wanted
to go watch her practice and we didn't do that,
but but that was that was big news around where
I was from.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
Yeah, that's a hometown story that goes national. Yes, yeah,
that's the fact that I still remember Jeff Galuli's name. Yes,
that's wild. Did you ever see it? Tanya? I did?
What did you think about it?
Speaker 1 (54:27):
Loved it me too? I thought she did such a
good jobs. And then the woman who played her mom.
Speaker 2 (54:33):
Uh do you she was also on that show Mike
with Yes Moms with the Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
She was awesome, Yes, just great.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
Did you see Barbie, I did, do you like it?
Speaker 1 (54:47):
I liked it, I didn't love it as much as
everyone else.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
Maybe that was the problem. You heard too many people
say they loved it.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
Might have been I mean, or maybe I saw it
on the wrong day. I don't know. I was so
hyped up for it. You know the movie that like,
I wasn't hyped up for that's been my favorite movie
and several years was Top Gun Maverick.
Speaker 2 (55:06):
I haven't seen it. Oh, everybody's told me it's so good,
there's no way it can meet the expectation. So I've
purposely not watched it because there's no way it can
be as good as everybody says.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
It's pretty great, and and I even said to a
friend of mine that was talking about Barbie, I said,
I really liked it. I said, I think I thought
it was going to be how I felt about Top Gun,
and it wasn't. I mean, it was. It's great, though.
I think it's a real mother daughter thing. Everybody I
know who really or like Shane, he took his daughter
(55:35):
and he loved it. I think there's something about having
a daughter and taking your daughter to that movie.
Speaker 2 (55:41):
Dang, I loved it. I was like emotional watch.
Speaker 1 (55:43):
Oh we were okay, Yeah, well you'll just be a
good dad when you have a yes.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
I mean, my wife tells me I'm about I'm the
most feminist dude that she knows as like a confident
sometimes a little too much, and I was just like, yeah, man,
we women, we're we're not even understood what's unfit because
She's like, okay, relax, but yeah, I really I really
like Barbie, Mike, like you like Barbie.
Speaker 1 (56:07):
Huh see I love that.
Speaker 2 (56:09):
Get enough of it.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
I mean I liked it. I just wasn't you know.
I know people who cried, and you know, I didn't
have that experience.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
But that's why I don't watch Top Gun, because I
don't think it can ever meet what everybody says it is,
and not in a bad way. I'm sure it's.
Speaker 1 (56:22):
Awesome seeing when I when I saw Top Gun, I
just watched it on a plane because I thought, well,
there's nothing else, And then.
Speaker 2 (56:28):
I'm so bad.
Speaker 1 (56:29):
I'm bawling, you know, I'm like, because I loved the original,
but I you know, it just hit all the feels
for me. But it's because I didn't have any expectation.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
That's usually the best when you have no expectation.
Speaker 3 (56:40):
Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor.
Welcome back to the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2 (56:53):
You watch TV at all? Are you watch any shows?
He is in Hijack on Apple Plus yet No with
Idris elba Oh. I love him, me too, And it's
like a plane gets hijacked and he's the He gives
some sort of credibility to anything, like if he's in it,
you're all right. Just that voice, yeah, just the fact
that he lends any of himself to Yes, we finished that.
(57:15):
We binged that. It was really really good, little cheesy
at very first, but then they got off the cheese
and it was super good. We're looking for a show now.
That's why I ask you this, and we'll kind of
end with this. Give me something that you've seen that
you were just so motivated to get back to.
Speaker 1 (57:27):
Okay, well, there's something I started last night that I
thought was great, which is Painkiller on Netflix.
Speaker 2 (57:34):
Okay, is that about the Yes, we thought about it.
We were looking at things to watch.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
I was super tired, so I couldn't watch more than
one episode, but I loved it. I'm trying to think
of something else.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
We started watching Robin Big last night because we were
just like, well, we're not going to get anything super deep.
So we started watching old Robin Big for like fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
Okay, I love Winning Time.
Speaker 2 (57:55):
Oh it's awesome and it's bad.
Speaker 1 (57:56):
Yes, that's a bet, and.
Speaker 2 (57:58):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (57:59):
You know what. I love that you can't stream it.
I love it. You have to wait for it because
I look forward to it on Sunday nights. I was
Magic Johnson's my favorite basketball player of all time. So
in fact, I'll get into discussions with my godson and
he'll say, Grandy think he calls me Grandy. Grandy thinks
Magic Johnson's the greatest basketball player of all time. I said, no,
he's my favorite. Didn't say he was the greatest. I
(58:21):
think Michael Jordan's the greatest, but Magic is my favorite.
But oh I love why Magic? You know. I think
it was his charisma. I just I just he's one
of those I don't really I rarely get starstruck. If
I met him, I would cry.
Speaker 2 (58:37):
You never met him, never met him.
Speaker 1 (58:38):
I'm sure I would cry. I remember I cried when
I found out he had HIV. I was at a
junior high football game and this kid that was in
my class told me, and I just I've loved him
once again. I think it was the charisma.
Speaker 2 (58:51):
Were you a point guard?
Speaker 1 (58:53):
No, as a shooting guard. But I went to a
tiny school, you know, any other school I would have
had to have been a port guard and I wouldn't
have been quick enough.
Speaker 2 (59:00):
Well, I wondered if that was why the magic, if
you love magic he was also a guard, you know,
or if it just was the charisma.
Speaker 1 (59:06):
I think it was this charisma and just yeah, I
mean we're such a great player too, but just just
everything about him.
Speaker 2 (59:14):
Well, we've done an hour. I don't want to keep you,
but I want everybody. We talked about it before you
got here. Listen. Don't be confused. It's not her first
album ever, just because it's called Brandy Clark. It is
not her intro to the world. It's really good. I
knew I was gonna love it.
Speaker 1 (59:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (59:29):
I'm glad I didn't top on it, and no, I
was gonna love it, So then I didn't listen to
it because then I but it's just it's it's so good.
But I think I think everything you do is so good.
But I'm just a massive fan and sometimes this is
not you. But sometimes I've had favorite artists and I've
appreciated maybe different directions they've taken, but it didn't always.
(59:52):
I always love it with like my sonic sensibilities, we'll
call it that. And I worry about that at times,
whenever I get so hyped that one of my favorite
people are going to release something, and then when it
is what I like, I'm like, oh, thank god. And
this was I was like, oh thank god when.
Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
I heard that makes me feel good.
Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Well, even if it had been totally different, I've been like,
I respect it your but I just I just loved it.
I did. I just loved it, and it made me
think of my grandma. Like I said, there were just
time it just felt even more personal, and I didn't
know if that was the if you felt like that
was the case too.
Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
Yeah, that's probably part of why it was why it
was challenging at times, you know, And to be challenged
by someone in Brandy Carlisle who won't take anything less
than real personal.
Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
You know, I'm never letting her produce my album, never
never doing an album. I've never letting her produce it either.
Great to see you, you too, everybody please stream Lovey.
I mean it's great, and it's been out three yeah,
three months. Yeah, dang, it's already been out three months.
Three yeah, and shucked. Now I have to go see it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Yeah. I think you'll like it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
It's super cool. And are you making a bunch of
money off?
Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Shucked? Well, not yet, but I think we will.
Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Is it like a song? I guess my question is
not how much money? Is it like a song? When
it goes top five, number one, it takes a while
for the residuals to come in, But you know it's coming.
Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Yeah, we know it's coming. And when it really starts
to when it really starts to pay off, is when
it tours and they've booked a national tour.
Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
That's awesome. Yeah, congratulations, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
And so you know it'll and that's one of those
that that'll be an evergreen sort of thing, you know,
and it's you'll see it. You'll notice it when you
see it. It's for Broadway. It's a very inexpensive show.
There's nothing automated, and so every community college high school
in America will be able to do it. Now, they'll
have to clean up some of the humor.
Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
But I know that they'll last question. I want to
keep it out. I could do this for four hours.
May last question. Is there anything in Chucked that in
ten years ago that might get me canceled but right
now it's funny.
Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
No, at times there was there were. I mean, we
really got lucky that it came out when it did
and not sooner, because there were times where some of
the humor was sexist. There was never anything racist in it,
but definitely there was some sexist humor for a while.
And well maybe there were nothing racist. Maybe things that
(01:02:12):
could have come across and this is going to sound
crazy because it was written by three gay people. There
was a there were a few little homophobic things that
were that are gone, that were inside jokes that were
funny to us, but I think maybe would have gotten
us canceled.
Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Okay, final last question. I've had a lot of last questions.
Final last question. If let's say the actor who was
playing the main character, Mason's in name was yeah, Let's
say she's like, oh, I can't my throat hurts. Because
I always thought if I'm on an airplane and they're
like we need to make a land us, Okay, I'll
go do it. I don't know how to do it,
but I can figure it out. But you know these songs,
could you go and play her role with fifteen minutes? Notice?
Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
I did it? So wait, this is a great question. Yes.
So we were in New York City and it was
after the show had opened, but before the Tonies, and
so you know that's when all the Tony voters are coming.
They can't come before it officially opens. And so it
was when all the smoke was happening in New York
(01:03:07):
from Canada. And I just happened to be in New
York doing radio at Warner Records, and our producer called
me three times. I was in doing some things and
I thought, well, that's strange. I better take this call.
So I stepped out and it's five o'clock and he said, hey,
where are you And I said, well, I'm at Warner Records.
(01:03:30):
And he said, well, all the Mazies have called out.
Do you think that if you could do a concertized,
concertized version of it? Because Robert the book writer was there.
He said, Robert, we'll read all the dialogue, you sing
the songs. And I said, sure, I can do it.
And so five o'clock the curtains at seven point thirty,
(01:03:52):
leave Warner, go go down to the theater, run through
it with the music director. He changed the keys he could,
but he couldn't chae all the keys, and so they
sat Robert and I down on barrels, and then the
whole cast was around us on barrels. But they got
up and did their scenes. And so we did it.
(01:04:14):
And I'll tell you what, it gave me mad respect
for anyone who does it, because it looks way easier
than it is. And I've even said, as we've because
we've had to recast that role just because our lead
had to leave the show, and different names would come
up of oh, we could get this person to play
(01:04:34):
it like popular music people, and I would say, yeah,
I don't think so, and everybody would look at me
and say, well, yeah, they can sing that. I'm like, no,
they can't. I've done it. If I can barely do it,
this person you're talking about can't. You know? Now, there
are some singers who definitely could do that and more.
(01:04:57):
But it's a tough role.
Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
What a great question about me? I'm glad to ask that.
And we're gonna end it now. She said, a great
question that you can't. I'm gonna sign fill this thing
and end at the top. You're the best.
Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Oh, you are as much of a fan of.
Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
Of you, of me, possible. I'm obsessed, so possible at
the Brandy Clark and you guys go check out the
album if you haven't already.
Speaker 3 (01:05:17):
Thank you, Brandy, thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast production.
I said, I always felt like I needed something to
hook somebody in. And she said, what do you mean?
And I said, well, I had to be like good
in sports and then good in music to hook people in.
And she's like, no, that's what you need to hook you.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
In episode four twelve with Brandy Clark, Brandy's the best
as a songwriter, as an artist. I love her as
a person. I just really enjoy spending time with her.
And I don't get to see her as much as
I like. You know, we'll do this once a year.
We'll see each other out occasionally, and it's always I
wish we could stop and talk more about we're at
an award show or we're here there. So I really
(00:39):
value this time with Brandy. You can follow her at
the Brandy Clark on Instagram. She got a new album.
I'm going to play you some of Buried You Dumb.
Here's a little bit of a song called Northwest.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
My Heart to start with.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
And she smoked in the house.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
She smoked in the house, would throw nothing up, She'd
cut them off.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
It's about her grandma. She's so great as an artist.
And we really start talking about Chucked the musical at first,
because I had just seen an Instagram post maybe from
Shane because they were nominated and they even won an
award for Shucked. I don't know anything about Broadway musicals
me either. I've seen a couple. But there are times
where she's been involved in it for so long because
(01:33):
they wrote all the music to it, and where she
would say things because she's been in it. I was like,
hold on, I don't know what that means. Sometimes people
have to do that with me with this job. I'll
be like a spot. Hey, They're like, what is the spot?
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Sorry, it's a commercial. So I don't know. She's really cool.
She's on tour all year with Mary Chapin Carpenter. She
does stuff Brandy Carlisle, who produced her album She's All
Over the Place. She's an eleven time Grammy nominee, CMA
Song of the Year Award winner, and twenty two twenty
three Tony nominee Brandy Clark is Awesome. Some songs that
she wrote that she did not sing Miranda Lambert, Mom
(02:06):
has Broken heart Break, the Band, Perry Better dig Two,
Casey Musgraves, Follow Your Arrows, and so many more. I'll
stop you yapping here. She is one of my favorites.
(02:27):
She got a brand new album, self titled called Brandy Clark,
produced by Brandy Carlyle. It's been out since the middle
of May. Enjoy Brandy Clark. Gond to see you You Too.
I was thinking about just you, which I do every day,
and I was I guess it was Shane's story. I
saw that You're the Broadway play was nominated for Tony
(02:49):
Is that right? Yes, I'm not in that. I don't
know that world.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, we didn't either when it started. We actually ultimately
we got nominated for nine Tonys. Wow. I know which
one of those nominations was mine and Shane, But most
people that aren't in that world just think we were
nominated for nine Tonys.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Got it? The musical.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
The musical was nominated for nine Tonys, which was pretty incredible.
I mean, I think the most nominated musical was maybe
twelve or thirteen this year. Yeah, so we were in there.
We were, you know, in amongst the most nominated. We
had one win, which was great.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
It's over now.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah, so you won though, well Alex Newell won great. Yeah. Yeah,
so yes, our show won.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah, but you wrote all the music for the show, right,
we did yes, yeah, that's you.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's awesome. You know, that's what I'm
going to start saying. Yeah, you know, we did write
the music, so I guess we did win that, Tony.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
What is it called a shot? No no? A music musical?
A musical? So you wrote the music for the music.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
We wrote the music for the musical.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
That's so cool. How did you guys even have somebody
reach out or did you guys? I don't even know
what to ask about Shuck because I don't know what
it is.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
So I can tell you the journey. It's a great,
great story. So it happened started. It was over ten
years from when we started to win it opened.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yes, so and this is what's crazy. I went, I
had made twelve stories, but it didn't have a home.
I was doing a showcase for Rounder Records, and so
I had we had a meeting for Shocked to interview,
and so I was like, oh, we got to you know,
I hope the meetings on time because I got to
get to this showcase. That's how long ago it was.
(04:27):
And basically gay Lord or Opry owned the rights to
he Haw. Yes they still do.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
And I've been through a couple iterations of that, but
I know that from working with them personally.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Yes, So they wanted to musicalize he Haw and Steve
Buchanan at the time was running the Opry in Nashville,
and he hired a book writer named Robert Horne. And
for those of you that don't know musical theater, book
writer writes all the spoken.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
So they're called a book I don't know musical that either.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
When they said a book writer, I thought Stephen King.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yes, same Judy Bloom is what my mind went. But okay, yeah,
And so.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
He hired Robert Horn. And Robert had been working on
it for about a year and had an outline, and
Robert felt very strongly that the music should be written
by Nashville songwriters and not Broadway composers. So he wanted
to come to Nashville and choose the team to write it,
and so he interviewed several teams that day and he
chose Shane and myself and.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Ten years ago.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, and so Shane's I always measure it by Shane's
kids because they're ten. They were born in Palm Springs.
I flew out to Palm Springs to meet him when
they were a couple days old. Robert Horn lives in
la He drove down to Palm Springs showed us that
first we already had seen the outline, but he started
kind of talking us through how to write a musical.
(05:50):
And so those kids were born in December. The first
writing appointment of that next year, which would have been
twenty twenty three or twenty thirteen, we started writing and
we wrote. We wrote for he Haw for a while.
He hawt it in test Well with Broadway audiences, and
so then it was changed to Moonshine.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
The name didn't not I mean, obviously the name and
the brand. If you don't know the brand, the name's
not going to work for you. Yes, that's why it
did seem too like Hillbilly, I guess so.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
And that was something Shane and I really fought for.
We loved the idea of taking he Haw to Broadway,
and we loved just the way the title looked and sounded.
We actually loved everything that was going against it. But
we got out voted. So then it became Moonshine that
he haa musical. We opened it in Dallas with the
hopes of it going to Broadway. It didn't. We got
(06:40):
very mixed reviews. It kind of got scrapped. And then
Robert Horn, once again, our book writer, won a Tony
for Tutsie. He wrote the book for Tutsie, and when
that happened, he had all this interest of what do
you want your next show to be? And he said
he wanted it to be this, and so we got
new At that point, Steve Buchanan was no longer at Opry.
(07:02):
We got a new producer, new director, you know, the opry.
We had to get the underlying rights from the Opry,
which we did and we just started over. It was
other than Shane and Robert and myself, and it became shocked.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Did you rewrite every song?
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Most of them? There are two songs that were in
that Dallas production that are still in the show.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
When you say mixed reviews for the Dallas production, what
did the best review say that you can remember paraphrasing
you know, I.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Don't remember because I kind of try to stay away
from them. You know, probably that it was funny and
that the music was catchy.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
The worst reviews said that Ore. I'll remember those, you
know that are that our leading lady was a dim bulb.
I remember that really bothered me, and so when we
started over to me, it became really important for her
to not come across as dumb, because.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Do you think that was a written It wasn't her
the actress, never the act It was her character that
was al yes, and they were talking about the character
more than got it.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
And then it was you know, that original version, it
played a lot on some old stereotypes that you know.
I'm glad that version didn't go to Broadway because I'm
from a small town. Our setting is Cobb County. To me,
that's where I'm from, and so I love that people
from where I'm from, Lewis County come and see it
(08:23):
and love it. I would hate for them to come
and see it and think, oh, they're making fun of
rural people, because that was never the intent. But that
first version I think had some of that going on
in it.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
That's interesting that you think that, because I'm also from
a town of less than a thousand people. You know,
I think there were seven hundred when I was there,
and there's like five eighty now, So it's going the
wrong way. Yeah, But whenever I do my comedy, I
can make fun of my small town or small towns
or rednecks or hill because I am one. If I
(08:55):
was at a Broadway show and I felt like somebody
that wasn't me was making fun of me, I would
feel a little weird about that too.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
So the fact that that you had that kind of sensibility, well,
there were.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Things because Robert Horne, our book writer, who really he
was leading the charge as far as the comedy and
the tone. There were things that both Shane and I
said to him were offensive as coming from a smaller town.
My town was nine hundred or just country and he's
from New York City. And he was so great about
(09:30):
really listening to that, being empathetic and making some changes.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
That's really cool. At what point did you go, what
point did you think this is over? Because I've had
a couple of projects where I'm like it's over and
then it in the end it worked out, worked itself out,
or it was a TV show or something. But did
you ever think it was done?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yes, several times, And there were times I wanted it
to be over, honestly, you know, because I kept I
couldn't let go of it, nor could Shane and Robert.
But I started to feel at times like is this
just this rabbit hole that is just taking and not giving.
After Dallas, I thought it might be over. And then
(10:08):
a couple of times after we restarted, you know, I
remember we did a reading and Robert Horne said, I
feel like if something doesn't happen, happen from this reading,
it's done. And something would happen, yes, like meaning like
an out of town theater wanted to take it because
we went to we went to Connecticut and.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
A table read, So what's a reading?
Speaker 1 (10:32):
So it can be as small as a table read,
or in this case, it would be where the actors,
say we had thirteen or fifteen actors, they're sitting down
and then when it's their turn to speak, they stand
up with a with a music stand that has their
script and their music on it, so they don't memorize anything.
But there's no choreography.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Who's watching this.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Potential producers, theater owners.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So it's like a showcase.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
It's totally like, yes, completely like a record label showcase.
And I would say that the last time that I
thought it might be done was right before we did
our final out of town last fall in Salt Lake
City at the Pioneer Theater and our producer had secured
a Broadway theater for us, and then it fell through
(11:19):
and we had never We weren't going to salt Lake
with the intent of getting picked up, because that's not
really where you go to get picked up. You go
to Chicago or Seattle or you know, Boston to get
the to get the attention of a Broadway theater owner.
We were going to salt Lake because it was under
the radar, we could work out some kinks. And so
(11:41):
when that theater fell through right before Salt Lake, I
had hesitation to even go to salt Lake because because
I thought, oh, man, I know we're not going to
get a Broadway theater coming out of Salt Lake. What
are we doing? And then a couple of days later
we had another theater. So that was that was the
last time I thought this might fall apart.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Was there ever a moment where it was the total
opposite after Salt Lake where you go, oh, not only
is this not falling apart, this is just clicking the
right exact way.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
I mean, I'm probably get emotional talking about it the
first preview because I realized I had prepared myself for
it to fail, because you know, most do. And and
also in all those years, you're hearing way more criticism
than you're hearing praise. You know, you you watch the show,
be it in Salt Lake or be it a reading
(12:34):
in New York City, and you everybody that's on the
creative team, from the director to the choreographer to the
music director to all of us to the the lead producer,
you get in a room and you talk about what's
not right. Yes, And so we had been talking about
that in this last iteration for five years. So the
first preview, when those people reacted the way they did,
(12:58):
which was a mis mid first act standing ovation, you know,
standing ovation at the end.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
What's a mid first act standing ovation that's not interrupting
the show? Yes, it is. Yes, like at the end
of a singing, yes you have to part in my.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
No, no no, I love this. Alex Newall, who won the Tony
sang a song called Independently Own and it blows the
roof off and that got a standing ovation. It gets
a standing ovation most nights, and so I kind of
expected that, and especially with the first preview because there
would be friends and family, but I knew it felt
(13:37):
it felt different. And then when when when overnight, the
man that worked the box office at the Neerlander Theater
told me that in thirty five years he'd never seen
word of mouth that quick. We had no sales, and
then overnight we were selling out. And so that's when
I really knew. I mean, I think I cried for
(13:58):
about twenty four hours because I just I just couldn't
believe it, and I also didn't realize how much I
had prepared myself for it to not work.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Do you think part of that because I made a
little mental note when you said that a minute ago.
I do the same thing with everything I try. I
go to therapy, I try to get better at not
have an expectation of failure. But we are in an
industry where it's failure most of the time. Like most
of the time it's failure, Yes, because if you're creating,
you're not spending all year creating a song and going
(14:28):
this is my one song about No, you're writing a
bunch of songs. Some of those songs you're writing aren't
even making it to the next level, which is do
we It's just so much failure and I already I'm
super insecure. So do you think that that is a
bit based on being a songwriter in this town or
how you grew up.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
I think it's all of it. With that, I think
it was really just ten years of a lot of
it getting kicked in the teeth.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Isn't that a songwriter too?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
I mean I just accept with that you're at least
getting little gl you know, Shane and I would get
the show to a point where we would love it.
My goal was by the time we got to Broadway,
I didn't want one cringe worthy song because in every
version there was always one song that made us cringe, like, oh,
let's just get through this one. We know it's not right,
(15:15):
we don't know what it is yet. But you know,
when we would get the show where we loved it,
we would have to make a big change, Like there
would be a plot change that would maybe change nine songs.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Wow, you know, because there's a full element, like a
fundamental element of the show that's changed. You can't sing
about the same thing because they are the same exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Wow. And so basically what it was like, I think
we wrote enough songs in those ten years for ten albums.
So it was like you've been writing a record for
ten years. Nine of them have been scrapped. And keep
in mind nine of those records, there are songs on
those records that you actually think are better than some
of what's on this record that's about to come out.
(15:57):
And so I think it was just that. And I
also think we were such underdogs. You know, people called
us the corn Musical, which was great. It worked for
us that nobody took us us seriously, and so I
think there was that element too. And I had always honestly,
I would always tell people and I did believe this
(16:20):
and still believe it. I said, we're either going to
be a massive hit or a massive flop. It won't
be in between. I'm betting on the hit, or I
wouldn't still be in it. But I think that there
was more of me that thought it might flop than
I realized, And it probably is all those things.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Walk me through because I was just looking at a
picture and it just happened to pop up before you
walk down. That's where my mind was before we talk
about your music. But walk me through the quick plot
of Shucked.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Okay, So, Cobb County is a county that is or
a town that's surrounded by corn. No one's ever left
no one's ever come to it. The only way you
can live in Cobb County is if you're born there.
The corn starts to die, and that's their only way
of life, so they don't know any other way. Nobody
(17:05):
wants to leave, nobody wants to let anybody in. But
there's one girl, Maizie, who's brave enough to leave and
knows that the only way they're going to survive is
to leave and get help. So her grandpa doesn't want
her to go, her cousin doesn't want her to go,
her fiance doesn't want her to go. She goes anyway.
She goes to the big city of Tampa, where she
(17:28):
sees the sign for a corn doctor and thinks, ooh,
my problems are solved. She walks into the corn doctor's office,
who's actually a pediatrist, but he's also a con man,
and she tells him there's something wrong with my corn,
and she pulls out an ear of moldy corn. He
laughs and says, oh, I think you're mistaken, and she's like, no,
(17:48):
you got to help me. If you don't help me,
my whole town will perish. And a bracelet falls off
of her wrist and he sees it and notices this
unique stone that is under her grandpa's house, and he
knows that those stones are worth something, and so he
pretends to be a vegetable corn doctor and she takes
(18:08):
him back to Cobb County and the you know, he
comes back and everybody's kind of wary of him, but
then they embrace him and maybe he's not such a
bad guy after all. Be once he feels the love
of this community, and you know, it makes her her
fiance and her breakup.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
But in the end, I don't want to spoilers, okay,
because I now I want to see it. Yes, now, okay,
that's really cool. Congratulations. That is a process ten years. Yeah,
it's almost like a relationship, like there's good times and
bad times. I think it was going to make it
at some point and in the end.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
And you know, Shane and Shane mcneally and I have
worked on so many things, but this musical really it'sponded
us for life because there were there were some bad times,
you know, and there were a lot of good times.
But in ten years you live a lot of life,
and you know, he and I went through a lot
together on it as well as Robert Horn, who's like,
(19:06):
they're both like my brothers, and you know, we just
we're going to do another one. Really yeah, I mean
I don't quite know what it is yet. We're interviewing
some potential ideas, but you know, the three of us
are a great team, and some of that is that
we can make it through some tough times.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
What's the most lasting standing ovation that you've ever gotten?
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Me?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Like, well, performing singing. I don't know that's a question
that I ask often, but whenever I hear you sing, like,
I feel like my guts are moving a little bit,
I think, oh, thank you because of how you are
a songwriter and also your voice.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Well, I would say I have two answers because I
would say, in some ways shucked is that? Because what
I love about that experience is I forget that I
wrote songs, really, and so when people start to stand
up and I start to stand up too, I'm like,
oh wow, I'm standing up for me here. I didn't
(20:08):
even realize it. But man, lasting standing ovation, I mean,
anytime there's a standing ovation, I love it. A lot
of times when I do something just me and my guitar,
it's fresh in my mind right now, but I'm out
right now with Mary Chapin Carpenter, who's a big musical
hero of mine. And the other night I was playing
(20:29):
and I have a song called Buried on my most
recent record, and I play it in the middle of
the show and and I got a partial standing ovation
for that in the middle of the set.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
That's like the first act.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, yeah, that really that really hit me. Anytime there's
a standing ovation, I love it. And you know, I
kind of love it more when I'm out in support
of someone than when it's me. That's the head you
come out and they don't, you know, they that's their
time to go to the bathroom or get a drink
(21:02):
or whatever. And when you can hold them long enough
that by the time you're coming off stage they've become
a fan enough to stand up, it's pretty huge.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah. I never thought about it like that. If your support,
because the audience they may like you, but most of
them didn't go to see whoever the support is, Yeah,
not you or anybody. You know, it's almost never do
I go. I wonder who the sport act is for?
Ben Rector. Yes, so yeah, that would be really I'd
have some no confidence if it's my.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Show and they don't stand up. I feel like I've failed.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
It's a drastic difference in the two show. Yeah, you
have confidence in yourself generally.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
I have good core confidence, you know. I mean, I
have insecurities, just like everybody. But I'm lucky and I
guess it was my parents and that I genuinely like
myself for the most part. But I think the nature
of what we do makes it hard to be confident sometimes.
But I have to just walk out and pretend I'm confident.
(22:04):
I'm sure you do the same thing.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, I'm never confident. I'm only confident once I'm shown
that I should have been confident fifteen minutes ago. Yeah,
like I was already faking it. But now I'm getting
some feedback that it's good. So still confident. But I
really wasn't fifteen minutes ago.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
But you know, the other thing is I don't know
anybody who's really great who doesn't struggle with that a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
I have a crazy imposter syndrome. Or it's I talked
to my wife and if I'm like I need to
go do this show, I need to do this TV
show or whatever, She's like, why you don't evenly want
to do it. I'm like, but if I lose momentum,
I'll never get it back. Like I have this absolute
fear of if I ever slow down, that I don't
really have the skills or the talent to catch back
up to where I am now. And if that's a
(22:50):
poster syndrome or if it's just reality, I don't know,
but I struggle with that with taking breaks because of that,
I don't know that I'm very confident in a certain
skill set, but I wonder, like I know what I'm
driven from, fear, Like I'm driven from a small town fear.
I'm creative because of similar situations. It was kind of
(23:11):
my way out. Where did yours come from?
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Well, definitely like creativity.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Just creativity and drive, well, my artist, the artist part
of year.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
My drive definitely came from my dad. My dad was
maybe the most driven person I've ever known. Whatever it was.
My grandma used to say it was a good thing
my dad didn't drink or smoke, because he would have
been a terrible alcoholic or a chain smoker. Like, whatever
it was, it was all the way. I remember when
I was getting out of high school, I wanted to
get into this. It was called the STP Seattle to
(23:45):
Portland Bike Ride. It was one hundred and ninety five
miles and I was going to school the next year
in a basketball scholarship and needed a way to stay
in shape. So I saw that as the way, and
so I started training for it. One of my high
school basketball coach was going to do it with me,
and then he had to have a hip replacement. So
two weeks before, I'm stuck without a writing partner, and
(24:08):
my dad said he would do it with me.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Two weeks before, two weeks before, no training.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
No training, and my dad was one of these people.
My dad was in good shape, but you know it's different,
and so we did the ride. We did it in
two days. I remember when we got done, my dad said,
I'm never getting on a bike again. That was on Sunday.
By Wednesday, my dad had bought a racing bike. The
(24:32):
next year, he did it in a paceline in eight hours.
That was my dad, So I definitely got drive from him.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Hang ty, the Bobby Cast will be right back, and
we're back on the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I've never had a drink and I can't. I don't smoke.
I can't because I'll do it all. Like your grandma
would say about your dad, greatest drinker of all time,
I would dominate it. It'd be amazing. I've never had
a single drink because I know I get obsessed or
even addicted to everything, and I have those qualities throughout
my family. A lot of my founders have died from addiction.
So but I kind of replace addiction with an addiction
(25:16):
to drive, and sometimes they it's easy to get confused
even to myself on what they are, Like is it
a drive or am I addicted to work? You know,
as I try to find like some sort of worth.
Your Dad's had a great example for you on drive.
Do you have addictive quality? Is it an addictive quality
type thing?
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Well, you know, I believe we're all kind of addicts.
We just get addicted to the healthy things or not.
I mean, I mean I can definitely be addicted, like
to food. I mean, I wish it was a sexier addiction, but.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
I have no moderation. Yeah, yeah, none.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah. It's like I'm either eating seriously clean or I'm
postmating two pints of Jenny's ice cream and the next
day I'm like where did those go? Like there's no moderation.
I'm that way too. I think, I like, I'm pretty driven.
Its it's a competitive thing. I wish it wasn't as competitive.
(26:12):
I wish I have friends who are artists and they
just are They just love music and you know, I mean,
I love music and I love I love creating, but
I also want to win. I wish sometimes I wish
I didn't have that as much.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
I'm horribly competitive. Yeah, again, but all minds from insecurities.
It sounds like yours was a great example. Yes, and
then kind of pursuit with some of it to kind
of be like or with your dad, do you think?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yes? And I really I lost my dad young. I
was twenty not as young as some people, but I
was twenty five, and those really young years of my life,
I was really into sports, and I think that was
because of my dad. And I'm I really feel lucky
that I that that was my passion then because we
were close because of that, we would have been close anyway.
(27:03):
But I've been lucky enough to be My parents were
great parents, and then as I've gotten older, my mom's
also a great friend. You know, She's always my mom.
But I feel lucky that I had that athletic drive
young because I wasn't going to have my dad a
long time. My mom was musical, and so as I
(27:23):
got older, music sort of became the thing, and that
brought her an eye even closer.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
So I think at all a part of your life though,
like thirteen, Yes, it was.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
It was. I started playing guitar when I was nine,
and I always just assumed everybody's mom played piano, and
because my mom did those things, like if we liked
a song, my mom could could hammer it out on
the piano. I was in the Music Man. That was
my first music thing. I was Amaryllis in The Music Man.
And so after that I started like taking voice lessons
(27:55):
and got more into guitar, but it would go in
and out because of sports. But once I got out
of high school, music took the place of what sports
was That then became my sport.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
The thing you worked at, yes, goals, yes, yeah, because
it's hard to unkind of ravel yourself from the competitive
mindset of sports sports sports, sports, well, no, nothing right,
So it's again when I was talking about it for
me after like replace addictions mm hmm, and not that
it was an addiction but if you were always pushing
toward this sports goal and now you have no goal,
I can see where you could be lost a little
(28:28):
bit or no direction.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yeah. When I first quit playing basketball because I went
to college on a basketball scholarship and I really was
burnt out by then.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Your identity to the basketball player totally.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I thought that was why people liked me. I still,
you know. I talked about this to a therapist one time.
I said I always felt like I needed something to
hook somebody in and she said, what do you mean?
And I said, well, my longest friend in life is
a girl named Rachel. I said, Rachel didn't have to
do anything like everybody just loved Rachel. I said I
had to be like good in sports and then good
(28:59):
in me music to hook people in. And she's like, no, you,
that's what you need to hook you in to liking you.
And I think that's probably probably true. But yeah, my
identity was very wrapped up, and when I quit playing basketball,
I had probably six months of who am I? And
then I started getting really back into music, and then
(29:22):
that became my identity. I wish I didn't have so
much wrapped in it, but I just do. And if
for some reason this went away, it'd be something else.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah. Same. I struggle with that a lot, separating like
who I real I am and who I am and
they sometimes I get confused. I'm lucky I have a
wife now that will go, hey, yo, this is you know,
there are priorities, and I get this is a priority
of yours and it's important, but let's evaluate the real
(29:54):
human and then the career person.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
That's tough, and.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
So it's tough for me to even kind of understand
and that I have to separate those because I was
on my own until thirty nine. I mean I never
had a serious girlfriend. I had girlfriends and under the
million and I met her and then it was like
a reality pill and it hurts, hurt to swallow sometimes
when you start to get that that like, oh, so
that's been difficult for me. Do you have anybody for
(30:18):
you that's like, Okay, here's the deal this. You're kind
of awful, little you kind off track a little bit personally.
Can Shane do that?
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Well? I mean I probably do that.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
For him absolutely, so I would assume is it.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, No, we're good for each other that way. You know,
he and I are like you know soulmates in.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
A lot of ways, or you can get mad at them,
but it doesn't mean you're not going to be their
friend anymore. I think that's a that's a new that's
a point in relationship, that's you just bonded.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah we're family, you know, and and totally like he
and I really do lean on each other. I can
tell him really really thinks I'm super insecure about and
him for me, and yeah, we can kind of ground
each other. And he's really been great lately at at balance,
you know, like he's really he's amazing for me to watch.
(31:07):
He's a great dad. His kids are a real priority.
You know, he's spending a lot of time out in
Santa Barbara now because that's where he's happiest, that's where
his sobriety's easiest, and that that's inspiring to me. I
don't struggle with that with the same things. I definitely
do struggle with having my identity all wrapped up in
(31:30):
this though. That's a that's a big one.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
You your album, What's I got to say? Rare? You've
self titled this project, and usually that happens the very
first it's like, hello, I'm this person I've self titled it.
I've been a fan for years and now it's self titled.
I was a little confused. I'm like, am I looking
at the wrong record here? So why were talking about identity?
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Why?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Why do that? Here?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
So funny story and then and then a real story.
But so when Brandy Carlisle approached me about he had
really like to make a record on you, she said
I see it as your return to the Northwest. And
that was intriguing to me. And I was talking to
Jesse Joe Dillon, who's a great friend and collaborator, and
(32:15):
I wasn't sure what I wanted to do on this record,
and I said, you know, Brandy Carlisle has been talking
to me about potentially working with her. And Jesse said,
what do you like about that? And I said, well,
one of the things she said that really intrigues me
most is that she sees it as my return to
the Northwest. And Jesse says, wow, b we should go
(32:36):
up to the Northwest and write some songs, and so
we did, and one of those was a song called Northwest.
It's on this record. And so I then had this
massive idea of, oh, we're going to call this record Northwest,
and I had all the artwork in my head, but
every time I would say that to somebody, they would say, well,
you know that's Kim and Kanye's kid, rightest. Oh, yeah,
(32:59):
you're right, yes, And I hadn't thought of that, And
so then I got off of that and I was like,
what am I going to call this? And it just
you know, the process of making this was so there
was a lot of challenge in it and I and
I felt by the end of it there wasn't anything
else I wanted to call it but Brandy Clark, And
(33:21):
since I hadn't self titled something, it worked.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Why Brandy Carlisle as in what about her? As a producer?
I love her music has been super cool to me,
wonderful freaking singer, Like you know, I'll tell her she's
the Mount Rushmore. She is, But as a producer, I
don't know that part of her.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
I didn't either. It was a leap of faith, you know,
And what really drew me to her was her confidence.
You know, she she was so confident that she should
make this record.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
And did you already want to make a record? And
did you talk to her like she you said, she
came out, I can't want to make a record on
you does?
Speaker 1 (33:59):
She just well, no, it started. What started was when
we were in the pandemic and I had made Your
Life as a record with Jay Joyce, who's who I
loved working with genius producer. The label wanted to waterfall it.
They wanted to put out a few more songs, and
Jay's schedule didn't line up to do it, and so
(34:19):
I just thought, well, we're not going to be able
to waterfall it. And then Tracy Gershawn said to me,
have you ever thought about doing a couple of songs
with Brandy Carlisle? And I said, oh, yeah, that'd be cool.
Let's try it. You know, it felt very like an
easy thing. It wasn't you know. It wasn't like it
was a whole album. And so we did. We cut
(34:42):
two songs and tack them onto Your Life as a record.
One of them was nominated for a Grammy. And the
way it started with her producing whole record was she
said that when we didn't win that Grammy that she
looked over and she said, I looked so sad. Now
I don't remember feeling particularly sad, but I'm glad I
did because it spurred her to say. She goes, hey, buddy,
(35:06):
I want to make a whole record on you. That
was how it started. I didn't know how serious she was,
but when her and I sat down, and you know,
she talked to me about how passionate she was about
it and how she felt like there was a part
of me that she could get on record that no
one else could. And I think it is because she's
such a great singer. I always think a producer leads
(35:28):
with their instrument if they were a guitar player first,
that's that's their entry point. For her, she's a singer,
so that's that's her entry point, and so she can
ask things of an artist vocally that other producers can't.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Does she give example if she's like, I haven't been
in the studio with you, but she could go like, ooh,
does she do like examples of what she wants you
to try to chase?
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Well, yeah, I mean she would sing it to you like, hey,
I know you can do.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
This, So she would push you yes by showing you
what she wants wanted to push you to Yes. Was
there of a moment like I can't do that? But
then you did? Because she just kind.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Of no, because I didn't want to say I couldn't,
you know. And also the other way she would push
is I love something perfect, And she'd push for flawed things,
you know, like no, no, no, leave that vocal alone.
That's that. Sure you might be able to sing it better,
(36:25):
but you can't sing it truer, like don't don't do
it again. You know. She's great that way, and also
great at asking Okay, is this really what you want
to say? Is this really what you mean here? In
a way that I think probably only another artist that
can do that's her. That's her gift as a producer
(36:46):
is that she's an artist.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Sounds like you have to trust well a producer, but
her a lot in the situation in ways that she's
challenging you totally.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
I mean, yeah, she's like.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Do you want to say it like this? If any
the right person asking me that, I'm like, what do
you mean? You don't tell me how I want to
say it? Oh?
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Well, my ego definitely got bruised in the beginning, and
I realized the first day we were in the studio
together was was kind of a tough day because you know,
she it was the day after the cmas And and
I had been part of that Lindyville performance and we
were recording in La oh actually Malibu a shangri Law,
which was a really amazing experience Rick Rubin's studio, and
(37:27):
she came in hot, you know, and I don't know
if I was just tired from from having just flown
in there from here, but I definitely the first day
thought wow, is this going to work? And some of that,
I think was that at that point I wasn't looking
at Brandy as a producer. I was looking at her
as another artist. And the next morning we met and
(37:51):
really like talked it out and I just said, you know, Brandy,
I'm just going to trust you. I'm gonna I'm gonna
do it your way on some of these things. And
after that happened, it was like the heavens opened. And
I think it was mostly me, you know, just giving
her that rope that I was maybe hanging on to
a little too tight.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Are you a control freak?
Speaker 1 (38:12):
No, not really. I mean I'm sure about.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Certain things, but just not generally across the board. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
No, I'm not a control freak about most things.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
I mean, you're a perfectionist, yes, But I think.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Perfect is different for everybody, you know. I mean, I
have my idea of what the perfect song is, and
a lot of that's based on being here and being
in writing rooms for twenty plus years and the idea
of the craft of songwriting. I think that's part of
why her and I were a great marriage on this,
(38:47):
because she hasn't done that. She likes things a little messier,
and so I think between the two we ended in
a spot that I was really happy with.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
What is her producing style? I can just see a
deducer on the other side of the glass, pushing the button,
doing the talk through. Okay do this or was she
in the vocal booth? What is she like?
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Oh, she's in it. You know. She's always playing something,
be it guitar, piano, even if it's not it ultimately
in the track, which most times it is. No, she's
right in the middle of it. I think to make
sure it feels right. Because Brandy is somebody and this
was another thing that drew me to her when we
did those first two songs. She's all got instinct, and
(39:27):
so I think to be that, you have to be
in it and be feeling it.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
The Bobby cast will be right back. This is the
Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Why I like you as a songwriter is your stuff
always feels personal. Even if I can't identify what feels
so personal about it to you, I can always feel
something personal about it with me. Oh, I love it
like I feel like. That's why I'm such a big
fan of your music is that it is very personal.
But sometimes I can I can. If I can't finger
and put my finger on exactly what you're talking about
(40:06):
personal to you, I can always associate it with something
to me. With so much of your music. That being said,
these songs feel even more personal, like honestly than stuff
that I've heard before. One purpose is that? Was that purposeful?
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Like?
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Did you push yourself to do that? And then two
is there ever a point where you're like, man, is
this too personal where no one's going to relate to it?
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Yeah? Both things, And I got to say that first.
The first thing, I really do a tribute to Brandy
because when she said are you sure you want to
say this? She asked me to change lyrics that didn't
There was a line in Buried that said, I'll read
lonesome dub, I'll start doing yoga and takes some trippy
(40:49):
drug makes me forget I even know you. And she's like,
I don't like that yoga line. That bugged me bad.
I said, why don't you like that yoga line? And
she goes, cause I just don't even think you do yoga.
I said, well I don't. She said, well why are
you putting it in this song? Then everything else is,
you know, so it changed it. So a lot of that,
(41:11):
some of there were little things like that that made things,
you know, this much more personal. And I never realized
when I'm writing songs, because I'm always writing songs, I
never I just I just never know, you know. Sometimes
they're for me, sometimes they're for someone else. And there
were songs. Lenny Warnicker at Warner is the first person
(41:31):
who pointed out just how personal they were. And he said, man,
these songs like I thought your life as a record
was really personal, but these are even more personal. And
I said, oh really, I didn't. I can't imagine that
they'd be more personal than that. And he said, well, yeah,
like dear Insecurity, like that's you're talking about you. He said,
(41:52):
You've written songs that are personal about relationships or situations,
but you on this record, you have songs that are
about you and your deep feelings and so and that
got a little scary. And then a song like she
Smoked in the House, I thought that was way too personal.
I wrote that Grandma. Yeah, I thought I wrote that
(42:13):
just because I was missing my grandma. It was a
way to be with my grandma to write that. I
turned it in because I turned everything in. I did
not expect one person to say, oh, you should record this,
and everyone did.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Yeah, And now that I'm out playing it and the
record's out, it's one I don't think I could get
away with not playing it live.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
I love my grandma adopted me for a long time,
so that song I was drawn to. That's why I
knew when you said the song. But I mean that
is one too that I that I heard and was like, well,
this is so easily such a great song. It's just
funny to think how we all feel about things that
we make in the moment we make them, and how
that can change. Because again, if you're writing here, you're
feeling a certain way, but going I don't think really this,
(42:55):
I hear it and go, how could this not be
a thing?
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah? Yeah, I think you know, I just being too
close to it. But it's also a good reminder of
you know, write what you love and what you know,
and other people will love it, know it like you've
you know you you hear your grandma in it. There
are people that have their grandma was nothing like my grandma.
(43:18):
Like they'll say, my grandma didn't smoke, but man, that
part about cutting the mold off candel open cheese, that
was my grandma. So it's just it's a That song
is a great reminder to me to write what matters.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
So why how would you be inspired by Forrest Gump?
Speaker 1 (43:32):
So on a writing retreat, Jimmy Robbins, Jesse Joe Dillon
and we were watching Forrest Gump the first night when
when we were there we had written something else that day,
and there's that scene where Jenny's throwing rocks at the
house she grew up in and Forrest says, you know,
sometimes they're just staying enough rocks, and Jesse Joe actually said,
(43:53):
I've always wanted to write that.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
That makes sense now, Yeah, the title you were literally
watching Forrest Gump, Yeah, I came up. That's do you
ever go? Maybe we don't tell anybody who wrote this
about Forrest Gump or are you just like we got
to let everybody know because I love that. It's forced me.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I probably tell too much,
and it probably be a better story if I if
I made something else up. But that's just the truth
about that one.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Your mom you mentioned her earlier. To play with your
mom and to be in a band with your mom, Yeah,
what was that like for you?
Speaker 1 (44:27):
It was great and even greater looking back on it,
because once again as a kid, it was just like
I kind of thought that's what everybody did. But I
realize just how special that is. And my mom is
so responsible for so much of the music I love
and for you know, my parents, they really they sacrificed
for us. Like we lived in a single wide trailer
(44:50):
that they that they were modeled into more of the
size of a double wide when we got older. But
I think about all the things we got inside of
that trailer, Like we got to do music lessons, we
got to play whatever sports we wanted. And they didn't drive.
You know, I'm sure they would wish they would, or
at the time maybe they wanted to drive a different car,
but it was more important for us to me to
(45:12):
play guitar and my brother to play violin if that's
what we wanted. So we were really lucky and they
took us even though we grew up in a really
small area. They took us to a lot of things,
like in Seattle and Tacoma. I remember, you know, going
to the Puaette Faarre and Seye and Ronnie millsap. That
was the first concert I saw. They took us to
(45:32):
the Perfect Ten Tour, which was when Mary lou Retten
and all the gymnasts from the nineteen eighty four Olympic
team were in I think they were in Seattle. We
got to do things like that. They'd take us to
folk life festivals and we'd see all this music and
all these different instruments, and you know, just they really
they were great parents in a lot of ways. In
(45:55):
one of the bigger ways was just culturally. They exposed
us to a lot.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
When you moved to Nashville because you went to Belmont, Yes,
well did you move from Washington State to Belmont?
Speaker 1 (46:06):
I did.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
That's a significant move. Yeah, and so was it. I'm
going to do music, I need to go to where
the music is and this is the school.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Well, a funny story. Yes, I wanted to do music,
and it was also really important to me to finish
college for some reason. You know, when I was paying
off my student LUNs into my thirties, I was like,
why did I do this? But I had seen on
Crick and Chase that Trisha Yearwood went to Belmont, and
so that made me want to go to Belmont. And
(46:34):
I'm still glad I went. But it was when I
moved here, I felt like I had moved to a
foreign country.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
It was so different, even in what ways stuck out
to you most because I know the area where you're from.
I tore a lot, so I feel like that's not
the same. But if there were a group of people
that were similar but not the same, it would be
people from the Northwest. You know, we're on the airport,
like rural Portland, Louis Seattle. Like they're just real on people,
(47:00):
real comma, honest people.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
I feel mostly, yes, oh like people here, I think
just geographically Like. One of my favorite things when I
moved here, and I used to do this and I
don't know why I thought this was fun, was how
fast you could get to other states. I would get
in my car and just drive to Alabama or just
drive to Kentucky, like because where I was from in Washington,
it took you a day to get across the state.
(47:24):
So that was different, like it could be so many
places so quick.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
I'm like that with Europe. Yes you can go to
a country.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Yes, same thing.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Oh like Ireland's the size of Iowa. I can just
be over and yes, yeah, that's that is crazy.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
So that was very different. The fact that they were
interstates and not freeways. That felt just now when I
go home and I say interstate, people look at me
like I'm crazy, and I'm like, well, it's I five.
You know, that's what it means, Interstate five. And then religion.
You know, where I'm from, it's not that people aren't religious,
(47:58):
but it's not as it's not so much in the culture.
You know there when I got here, I felt like
there was a church on every corner. And then going
to Belmont, I don't know if it still is, but
at the time it was a Baptist university and so
that was a different a different thing to me to
take Bible classes. And so those were the major differences.
(48:19):
And then the weather, you know, humidity. I didn't know
what humidity was when I moved here.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Boy welcome, Yeah, freaking sucks.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
I actually, you know, it's so funny though. I was
telling somebody the other day that was talking about how
much they hate humidity. I said, I don't and I
and I was like, and you know why, because when
I moved here, my grandma said to me, You're gonna
love it there, but you're gonna hate the humidity. And
I just decided I'm not gonna hate it. And so
my mom and I landed and it was super humid.
We got here in August, and I said, I just
(48:49):
love this humidity.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
That works. I just love mayonnaise never worked for me.
I hate man as I said that.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
You know.
Speaker 2 (48:58):
So with the record and just to go back to
it here again, I've heard so many songs that you
have written and that you have sang and that you
have written, and other people of saying on this record
specifically that you're singing. Which of these songs did you finish?
And go, oh man, I got like the tingles that
said that felt like, what's the most.
Speaker 1 (49:19):
Dear in security?
Speaker 2 (49:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (49:20):
For sure? Well and up above the clouds those two
I knew the day that those were written. You know
and Dearing's security. We made some changes on that in
the studio to make it even more my insecurities than
it already was. But both of those I knew like, oh,
this is this is something like and this is something
(49:42):
I want from me. I knew that right away.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
What are you doing for fun? It just it's it's
a lot. You have a lot going on professionally, and
this is what people ask me, like, you look like
you're driving yourself. What are you doing at all this
hang out? You know?
Speaker 1 (49:53):
I mean, well, and I'll get I want to say
something about you really quick, because I always say this
to other people. Okay, you are so good, and it's
because you share your vulnerabilities, you know, like people would
talk about Barbara Walters, they'd be like, man, everybody cries
in Barbara Walters. I think you're as good as Barbara
Walters in your own way. And it's because you talk
(50:15):
about yourself, like when you you know, like you're talking about, Oh,
I'm a workholic. You didn't say that, but it's your
gift as an interviewer. I just wanted to say that
you can.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Leave that or cut that gift is not accepting compliments.
I just feel awkward. But I thank you. That's very
kind to be from you. That means a whole lot,
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
It's true. I was telling everybody that I listened to
you this podcast, and if I really like somebody, I
like them more. And if I kind of don't like
somebody and I listen to your podcasts and I still
don't like them, I know. Okay, my instinct's right, because
the real person's going to come out.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
Right. It is an hour. It is intense, it is,
and intensity maybe isn't the word, but it is. It's
very intimate. Here we are you, I mean, and luckily
I know you. Yeah, but it's just me and you.
We only have each other to depend on. M hmm.
If one of us stops talking, or if I ask
a stupid question, I need you to bail me out
and give me an answer that makes me look halfway decent,
(51:11):
or if you I mean, it is a very it's
a relationship, yes, and so yeah, it is a anybody
that I've ever interviewed for a long period of time,
their real self comes out eventually.
Speaker 1 (51:21):
Yeah, you get to it, I think, And I think
it's because your real self, you're not afraid to talk
about your frailties, which is that's that gets other people
talking about theirs. I really noticed it. A friend of
mine and one of my favorite peoples, Sonny Sweeney, when
I heard her podcast with you, I called her or
I texted her and just was like, oh my god,
this was so great. She was great.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
She was so great.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Oh she's awesome. So for fun, and you're asking me that,
and I got off track. I love sports still, you know,
I mean, I'm so excited football's starting. College football would
be I know you're a big razorback.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
Do you have a team? U T Tennessee.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
I chose that when I moved here, and here was
why I'm moved here, and I one of the places
I would go was North Carolina, which was which was further,
but I had friends there still there, and when I
would drive, I had never seen coll it. I mean,
I always loved college football, but not it's not like
it is here anywhere else. And so I'd be driving
(52:19):
from here from here over to North Carolina. The whole
way to Knoxville, I would see these orange and white
pom poms out of cars and I just thought, you
know what, I want them to be my team. I'm
at Tennessee and now and that's that's that's it for me.
Now I still root for the Washington Huskies. You know,
it'd be tough for me if the Huskies were playing
(52:41):
ut But I love college football. I love college basketball
me too. I love track. I was terrible in track
and field myself.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
You love track like a watch track.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Oh, if there's a track, meet on, I'm watching it.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
Where's the track? Meaning on?
Speaker 1 (52:56):
There are some of those like higher sports channels, you know,
like like.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
Bally's twelve nineteen. Yes, every once in a while there
the Olympics. Then.
Speaker 1 (53:05):
I love the Olympics. In fact, when they when they
started alternating it where you get the Olympics every two
years instead of just every four that was a red
letter day in my life because I used to wait
all those four years for the Olympics, and now you
only have to wait too. It's great.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
And where you come from, I guess you guys had
a winter.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
Too, Yes, not a not a harsh winter.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
Enough winter though to understand some of the winter sports. Oh, yes,
cause we don't. I mean, I'm from Arkansas. I don't
know anything about skiing.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
Yes, no, And I and I didn't know them, but
like my dad knew people who were Olympic skiers, so
that and and other people. You know, Oh, I went
to school with so and so who who was an
Olympic skier or ice skaters? Tanya Harding. That was a
big thing my senior year in high school was the
whole Tanya Harding thing.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
And that was yes, whackening the knee of Carigan.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
Yeah, because Tanya Harding would train at I think it
was the Clackamas Town Center, which was in Oregon, which
where I grew up. Going to Portland was as close
to as going to Seattle, and I remember I wanted
to go watch her practice and we didn't do that,
but but that was that was big news around where
I was from.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
Yeah, that's a hometown story that goes national. Yes, yeah,
that's the fact that I still remember Jeff Galuli's name. Yes,
that's wild. Did you ever see it? Tanya? I did?
What did you think about it?
Speaker 1 (54:27):
Loved it me too? I thought she did such a
good jobs. And then the woman who played her mom.
Speaker 2 (54:33):
Uh do you she was also on that show Mike
with Yes Moms with the Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
She was awesome, Yes, just great.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
Did you see Barbie, I did, do you like it?
Speaker 1 (54:47):
I liked it, I didn't love it as much as
everyone else.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
Maybe that was the problem. You heard too many people
say they loved it.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
Might have been I mean, or maybe I saw it
on the wrong day. I don't know. I was so
hyped up for it. You know the movie that like,
I wasn't hyped up for that's been my favorite movie
and several years was Top Gun Maverick.
Speaker 2 (55:06):
I haven't seen it. Oh, everybody's told me it's so good,
there's no way it can meet the expectation. So I've
purposely not watched it because there's no way it can
be as good as everybody says.
Speaker 1 (55:14):
It's pretty great, and and I even said to a
friend of mine that was talking about Barbie, I said,
I really liked it. I said, I think I thought
it was going to be how I felt about Top Gun,
and it wasn't. I mean, it was. It's great, though.
I think it's a real mother daughter thing. Everybody I
know who really or like Shane, he took his daughter
(55:35):
and he loved it. I think there's something about having
a daughter and taking your daughter to that movie.
Speaker 2 (55:41):
Dang, I loved it. I was like emotional watch.
Speaker 1 (55:43):
Oh we were okay, Yeah, well you'll just be a
good dad when you have a yes.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
I mean, my wife tells me I'm about I'm the
most feminist dude that she knows as like a confident
sometimes a little too much, and I was just like, yeah, man,
we women, we're we're not even understood what's unfit because
She's like, okay, relax, but yeah, I really I really
like Barbie, Mike, like you like Barbie.
Speaker 1 (56:07):
Huh see I love that.
Speaker 2 (56:09):
Get enough of it.
Speaker 1 (56:10):
I mean I liked it. I just wasn't you know.
I know people who cried, and you know, I didn't
have that experience.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
But that's why I don't watch Top Gun, because I
don't think it can ever meet what everybody says it is,
and not in a bad way. I'm sure it's.
Speaker 1 (56:22):
Awesome seeing when I when I saw Top Gun, I
just watched it on a plane because I thought, well,
there's nothing else, And then.
Speaker 2 (56:28):
I'm so bad.
Speaker 1 (56:29):
I'm bawling, you know, I'm like, because I loved the original,
but I you know, it just hit all the feels
for me. But it's because I didn't have any expectation.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
That's usually the best when you have no expectation.
Speaker 3 (56:40):
Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor.
Welcome back to the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2 (56:53):
You watch TV at all? Are you watch any shows?
He is in Hijack on Apple Plus yet No with
Idris elba Oh. I love him, me too, And it's
like a plane gets hijacked and he's the He gives
some sort of credibility to anything, like if he's in it,
you're all right. Just that voice, yeah, just the fact
that he lends any of himself to Yes, we finished that.
(57:15):
We binged that. It was really really good, little cheesy
at very first, but then they got off the cheese
and it was super good. We're looking for a show now.
That's why I ask you this, and we'll kind of
end with this. Give me something that you've seen that
you were just so motivated to get back to.
Speaker 1 (57:27):
Okay, well, there's something I started last night that I
thought was great, which is Painkiller on Netflix.
Speaker 2 (57:34):
Okay, is that about the Yes, we thought about it.
We were looking at things to watch.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
I was super tired, so I couldn't watch more than
one episode, but I loved it. I'm trying to think
of something else.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
We started watching Robin Big last night because we were
just like, well, we're not going to get anything super deep.
So we started watching old Robin Big for like fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
Okay, I love Winning Time.
Speaker 2 (57:55):
Oh it's awesome and it's bad.
Speaker 1 (57:56):
Yes, that's a bet, and.
Speaker 2 (57:58):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (57:59):
You know what. I love that you can't stream it.
I love it. You have to wait for it because
I look forward to it on Sunday nights. I was
Magic Johnson's my favorite basketball player of all time. So
in fact, I'll get into discussions with my godson and
he'll say, Grandy think he calls me Grandy. Grandy thinks
Magic Johnson's the greatest basketball player of all time. I said, no,
he's my favorite. Didn't say he was the greatest. I
(58:21):
think Michael Jordan's the greatest, but Magic is my favorite.
But oh I love why Magic? You know. I think
it was his charisma. I just I just he's one
of those I don't really I rarely get starstruck. If
I met him, I would cry.
Speaker 2 (58:37):
You never met him, never met him.
Speaker 1 (58:38):
I'm sure I would cry. I remember I cried when
I found out he had HIV. I was at a
junior high football game and this kid that was in
my class told me, and I just I've loved him
once again. I think it was the charisma.
Speaker 2 (58:51):
Were you a point guard?
Speaker 1 (58:53):
No, as a shooting guard. But I went to a
tiny school, you know, any other school I would have
had to have been a port guard and I wouldn't
have been quick enough.
Speaker 2 (59:00):
Well, I wondered if that was why the magic, if
you love magic he was also a guard, you know,
or if it just was the charisma.
Speaker 1 (59:06):
I think it was this charisma and just yeah, I
mean we're such a great player too, but just just
everything about him.
Speaker 2 (59:14):
Well, we've done an hour. I don't want to keep you,
but I want everybody. We talked about it before you
got here. Listen. Don't be confused. It's not her first
album ever, just because it's called Brandy Clark. It is
not her intro to the world. It's really good. I
knew I was gonna love it.
Speaker 1 (59:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (59:29):
I'm glad I didn't top on it, and no, I
was gonna love it, So then I didn't listen to
it because then I but it's just it's it's so good.
But I think I think everything you do is so good.
But I'm just a massive fan and sometimes this is
not you. But sometimes I've had favorite artists and I've
appreciated maybe different directions they've taken, but it didn't always.
(59:52):
I always love it with like my sonic sensibilities, we'll
call it that. And I worry about that at times,
whenever I get so hyped that one of my favorite
people are going to release something, and then when it
is what I like, I'm like, oh, thank god. And
this was I was like, oh thank god when.
Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
I heard that makes me feel good.
Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Well, even if it had been totally different, I've been like,
I respect it your but I just I just loved it.
I did. I just loved it, and it made me
think of my grandma. Like I said, there were just
time it just felt even more personal, and I didn't
know if that was the if you felt like that
was the case too.
Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
Yeah, that's probably part of why it was why it
was challenging at times, you know, And to be challenged
by someone in Brandy Carlisle who won't take anything less
than real personal.
Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
You know, I'm never letting her produce my album, never
never doing an album. I've never letting her produce it either.
Great to see you, you too, everybody please stream Lovey.
I mean it's great, and it's been out three yeah,
three months. Yeah, dang, it's already been out three months.
Three yeah, and shucked. Now I have to go see it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Yeah. I think you'll like it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
It's super cool. And are you making a bunch of
money off?
Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Shucked? Well, not yet, but I think we will.
Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Is it like a song? I guess my question is
not how much money? Is it like a song? When
it goes top five, number one, it takes a while
for the residuals to come in, But you know it's coming.
Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Yeah, we know it's coming. And when it really starts
to when it really starts to pay off, is when
it tours and they've booked a national tour.
Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
That's awesome. Yeah, congratulations, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
And so you know it'll and that's one of those
that that'll be an evergreen sort of thing, you know,
and it's you'll see it. You'll notice it when you
see it. It's for Broadway. It's a very inexpensive show.
There's nothing automated, and so every community college high school
in America will be able to do it. Now, they'll
have to clean up some of the humor.
Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
But I know that they'll last question. I want to
keep it out. I could do this for four hours.
May last question. Is there anything in Chucked that in
ten years ago that might get me canceled but right
now it's funny.
Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
No, at times there was there were. I mean, we
really got lucky that it came out when it did
and not sooner, because there were times where some of
the humor was sexist. There was never anything racist in it,
but definitely there was some sexist humor for a while.
And well maybe there were nothing racist. Maybe things that
(01:02:12):
could have come across and this is going to sound
crazy because it was written by three gay people. There
was a there were a few little homophobic things that
were that are gone, that were inside jokes that were
funny to us, but I think maybe would have gotten
us canceled.
Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Okay, final last question. I've had a lot of last questions.
Final last question. If let's say the actor who was
playing the main character, Mason's in name was yeah, Let's
say she's like, oh, I can't my throat hurts. Because
I always thought if I'm on an airplane and they're
like we need to make a land us, Okay, I'll
go do it. I don't know how to do it,
but I can figure it out. But you know these songs,
could you go and play her role with fifteen minutes? Notice?
Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
I did it? So wait, this is a great question. Yes.
So we were in New York City and it was
after the show had opened, but before the Tonies, and
so you know that's when all the Tony voters are coming.
They can't come before it officially opens. And so it
was when all the smoke was happening in New York
(01:03:07):
from Canada. And I just happened to be in New
York doing radio at Warner Records, and our producer called
me three times. I was in doing some things and
I thought, well, that's strange. I better take this call.
So I stepped out and it's five o'clock and he said, hey,
where are you And I said, well, I'm at Warner Records.
(01:03:30):
And he said, well, all the Mazies have called out.
Do you think that if you could do a concertized,
concertized version of it? Because Robert the book writer was there.
He said, Robert, we'll read all the dialogue, you sing
the songs. And I said, sure, I can do it.
And so five o'clock the curtains at seven point thirty,
(01:03:52):
leave Warner, go go down to the theater, run through
it with the music director. He changed the keys he could,
but he couldn't chae all the keys, and so they
sat Robert and I down on barrels, and then the
whole cast was around us on barrels. But they got
up and did their scenes. And so we did it.
(01:04:14):
And I'll tell you what, it gave me mad respect
for anyone who does it, because it looks way easier
than it is. And I've even said, as we've because
we've had to recast that role just because our lead
had to leave the show, and different names would come
up of oh, we could get this person to play
(01:04:34):
it like popular music people, and I would say, yeah,
I don't think so, and everybody would look at me
and say, well, yeah, they can sing that. I'm like, no,
they can't. I've done it. If I can barely do it,
this person you're talking about can't. You know? Now, there
are some singers who definitely could do that and more.
(01:04:57):
But it's a tough role.
Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
What a great question about me? I'm glad to ask that.
And we're gonna end it now. She said, a great
question that you can't. I'm gonna sign fill this thing
and end at the top. You're the best.
Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Oh, you are as much of a fan of.
Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
Of you, of me, possible. I'm obsessed, so possible at
the Brandy Clark and you guys go check out the
album if you haven't already.
Speaker 3 (01:05:17):
Thank you, Brandy, thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast production.
Host
Bobby Bones
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