#86 - Dann Huff - Country Music Super Producer and Legendary Guitar Player.

Dann Huff stops by to talk about his legendary list of credits which include producing albums for Keith Urban, Rascal Flatts and Shania Twain. Also playing guitar for Michael Jackson, Celine Dion and Paula Abdul.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, welcome to episode number eighty six. Our guest
is Dan Huff. If I've been trying to get on
for a long time, I told you because we were
in New York together. How long was that? A month ago?
Thomas Rhett And by the way, Dan Hoff, I'm gonna
go through a lot of his stuff through the next
bit of time. But of everyone that was in New York,
it was Thomas. I'm friends with Thomas Rhett and a

(00:21):
lot of other producers, a lot of but I was like, Dan,
can we take a picture together? Like you were the
one guy that I peeked out over because man, you
have done so much. Like I look at this and
I always like to run down the roster things real
quick albums that he produced first of all uh nine
of Rascal Flats Loven albums, Keith Urban's last seven records.

(00:42):
On that Thomas Rhett, Life Changes, Entangled Up. Taylor Swift
Red produced three songs on that Lone Star Carrie Underwood
some Hearts. I mean I could go on songs to
play guitar on Madonna like a prayer, Paul Abduel, straight up,
Michael Jackson, Man in the mirror. There's a lot and
I want to get to a lot of that. But
first of all, I'm just a big fans. I'm that
you're able to come in. Thanks. It was that the
significant part of that picture that you you took was

(01:05):
it my son in law, Jordan's, who is a rabid
fan of yours. I think he was impressed for the
first time come on in his in his father in law,
so that was a big deal. Yeah, he he You
must have put it on Instagram follows you and it
was like extremely validated that moment. So I appreciate that
Eddie is a music nerd too, so he's sitting in
as well, because he was like Dan, He's coming in

(01:26):
and I talked to him, So Eddie's in here too,
So I appreciate Bobby never lets me sit in on
any of these so never. I'm a fan and I
just want to listen to everything you have to say.
Right now. How about I told you I was watching
you on YouTube and this is an old old video
on YouTube of you just shredding and teaching. Do you

(01:47):
ner making this video? Did? It was right down here
on the row in what was Quad Studios? I think
what year did you make this video? Yeah? They're being
the nineties. I mean he's crushing it. I mean it's
a two it's a master class and just watching someone
play guitar. And then I want to start with some

(02:07):
of the songs, like you played guitar on like a
Virgin of Madonna. No, not like a version, no, like
a prayer, like a prayer. I was like, up, Yeah,
you played guitar on this song if if if the
credits say so. There was so much it was The
eighties were a blur to me, not because of any
uh um extracurricular activities. As a matter of fact, I was.

(02:27):
I was from Nashville. When I moved out there, I
was as green as you possibly can get. So when
when when I got out there, it was I was
in awe of the situation. There was so much of
this stuff that went on that it was just like
day to day stuff, you know for me, Like, for instance,
you mentioned that straight up track by Paula Abduel. I
was in London recording a giant record with my with
my brother, which was the band you played a minute ago,

(02:50):
and we were we were in an airport, either in
the airport or in the hotel. Saw this song and
I'm commented something about the guitar part. I liked the
waa guitar part. But even you saw this song, well
it was on a video at this point, and I said,
that's a cool guitar part. And my brother David looked
at me like, well, you know, he smiled, and I said,

(03:12):
what are you talking about? He said, you played on that?
Oh you didn't saw the video and didn't realize that.
I forgot. I had forgotten. And I had actually forgotten
to file a union contract too, so I hadn't gotten
paid for the thing. And it was already on a
video at that point. And that and you were a
fan of yourself, which is always a great thing, he
says a lot about me. Yet, and you don't remember

(03:39):
playing that song well after Paula wasn't there And I
did after I after I heard it after my brother
kind of shamed me. I did remember the session. Um,
she wasn't there there. I don't think there are any
vocals on it at that point. I was just working
with the producer and some West Hollywood studio. Yeah, that
was it. So how do you go from Nashville to
l A, Like, are you crushing it so much? As
a guitars where you start be known and they're like, hey,

(04:01):
we because people get in demand real quick, you know,
it's like, oh, this is a hot person. Were you
that super hot guitar player at that period of time. No, No,
that's why I moved. I mean, I grew up here
in Nashville, and um, the irony of of the fact
that that produced country records right now, um is not
lost on the fact. I've never listened to country music

(04:21):
until I was thirty years old, and I was a
rock fan. I was a pop fan, and that's that's
what I want to do. So so, and there was
a bass player that I started doing some sessions with
here in Nashville, Gey named David Hungate, who was kind
of legendary in this session world. He was in a
band called Toto. Yeah it's that was Africa, Yes, and
that was that was like the soup. These were the
super group of musicians in l A. They they they

(04:44):
played on all the records that I grew up listening to.
And he said, if you really want to make it,
you got to go out to l A and make
it as a guitar player. And remember this is in
the late seventies. Early eighties, and he was he was right,
and and through a series of events that happened. No,
I was not an in demand guitar player in Nashville.
I was a friend guitar player, played too many notes,
as you evidenced on that when the video, but and

(05:04):
and and it wasn't the right timing for Nashville. I was.
Nashville didn't feed on youth at that point. L A
did And I got out there through a bizarre series
of events and and uh, and it started snowballing at
that point. So do you get more? Because this song
held the record until Sam Hunt took it like One
Sweet Day and Mariah Carey boys the Man and you

(05:24):
played on this. I played on a bunch of Mariah
stuff and a different Walter Afanassi was a good friend
of mine. So if a song is more successful in
your player on it, do you make more money or
is it like a one time thing? Well back then
it was pretty much a one time thing. And it
was you know, you got paid. I played for Double Scale,
and that was going from demo scale and Nashville the

(05:46):
double scale. It was like what a scale means, what
a person in the union gets? Yeah, And I and
I would charge. I was told out there by the
musicians who I kind of got in with immediately, you know,
don't make us look bad. Charge what we're charging, which
was double scale, so I mean for for three hours
and you break your dap in three hour increments. It
was a great living for a twenty two year old

(06:06):
kid and a lot of money. Well, you recorded this
again out without the artists sometimes sometimes like there was
you know, like um, this guy that I that I
worked with, Walter f Finos, if he would just hire
me on on just tons of stuff. A lot of
times the vocals were on there. I remember one time
we did um that, um my, my my voice will
go on the theme from Titanic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and

(06:30):
you played guitar on this. Yeah. Just ironic that you
have those that but it's um yeah and the vocal
wasn't on it. We actually did that after I moved
back to Nashville at studio down the streets. So how
do they call you and they go do they tell
you it's a Titanic song or they just say, hey,
we're gonna send you some a sheet of paper with
all the I don't even know what language that is.
That you guys read, How does that work? It's any

(06:53):
and everything you can imagine. So he's just going to
studio with with you play music and you just start
jamming with it. I mean I was, I was horrible reader.
I grew up being a guitar player. You just you
you you you. Your education musically is somehow stunted because
you're a narcissist. Number one. You're a guitar player. You
want to shared and you want girls to look at
you and for some reasons. So I didn't get the

(07:15):
reading memo. So I was always pretty remedial and reading.
But I could. I could. I can hear a song
once and know it pretty much. So usually what they
would do it just play a track and say, you know,
play what you feel or what they hear a lines,
maybe play this or something like that. At what point
in your life because you start to play things back,
because that's something that's kind of grained into you. I
grew up wanting I was the the opposite of young

(07:35):
guitar players wanted to be a rock star. I wanted
to be a studio player. I thought that was the
coolest thing. So I grew up in Nashville. My father
was in in Christian contemporary Christian music. He was an orchestrator,
and so I'd go to all the sessions with him
when I was, you know, started thirteen years old, and
that's I thought that was a greatest thing in the world.
So you saw sessions because a lot of people what
they see is the rock and roll on stage. Yes,

(07:56):
so you actually saw sessions and thought that would be cool.
I thought those musicians were the best because what they
could do is site, basically on site at that moment,
they could create something that didn't exist before before that moment.
That's wild. You played on all these songs. It's like,
do you know what I think? Bobby too, I think sometimes.

(08:17):
I mean, uh, somebody told me that the Wikipedia page
on me is quite extensive. I don't I've never really
looked at it. I glanced that for two seconds and
it looked like, really, I don't know who keeps all
these stats. I think some of them are right. I
think some of them are are wrong. I don't know
how I get. I mean, I played with all these artists,
but as far as per song, some of them I
can't remember, to be honest. So what about this one here?

(08:38):
This is a pretty legendary one. Yeah Jackson, Yeah, yeah,
played on that one. Now, that one you do remember?
I mean I remember most of them, but but that
one especially, that was a that was a pretty big deal.
It was twenty I don't know what year that record
was recorded in. I'm assuming I was about now. Did
you know the Michael Jackins song? Oh yeah, I mean

(09:00):
I got called in. I mean that was that wasn't
lost to me. I mean I got you know, you
kind of knew you had made it when when you
got a call from Quincy Jones and you know how
I knew Michael Jackson was And I remember going in
the first day. The first session I worked on with
him was not that song. It was a song. It
was his leadoff single, which is I can't remember the
name of It was like a ballot. He would release

(09:21):
a ballot first, and um, I was just an awe.
I mean I I walked into the studio and it
was bizarre. Did I tell you this there in New York?
Somebody asked me about this. And I walked into Westlake
Studio and basically you walk in an alleyway and and
uh it opens up right into a lounge and there's
a bathroom right in front of you. And I walked

(09:42):
in and I saw this, this what looked like a
pretty ragged you know, raggedy. I mean, I hate to
say it like this, but it's like a street person.
I mean it really unkept person in the bathroom being
attended to by somebody. And and that was my first
inclination of that kind of you kind of look at
and go, okay, well, I'm just gonna kind of mosey
on down the hall way. And the person that was
attending him, attending to this person, then all of a

(10:05):
sudden pulled off the hair and and and it was
a wig. It was Michael Jackson in in um Hollywood
uh quality garb to make him be able to blend
in to walk down Melrose. So what he was wearing
was to fake people out so they wouldn't know was
Michael Jackson. And you saw him peeling off the sky, yeah,

(10:26):
I mean I was and and and I saw what
it looked a little uncomfortable. A sudden, there there's no hair,
and it's like nobody screamed. So I looked back and
I realized realized that it was him. I had never
met him, and I asked him, you know, I mean,
it seems pretty obvious now, but at that moment, you're
it was kind of surreal. And he just he articulated
that that's the way he could walk down the street,
which I thought was pretty interesting. So did you spend

(10:48):
much time with him in studio and did he have
any production like was he like, hey, do some more
of this? Was he hands on even though question he
was present. Yeah, I mean they they to be invited
to that kind of setting. The bar is pretty high.
I mean, all the musicians are kind of the musicians,
you know, and and they they're pretty loose about them

(11:09):
and they hire whoever they want. So they get people
they think we are going to do the job and
and and add to their music, and they pretty loose reins.
They let you kind of do what you what you
do and they'll they'll weigh and I remember Michael would
walk around and ask questions about some equipment. You know,
just very hospitable, kind of friendly guy that will make
you nervous. That was definitely nervous. Oh yeah, I mean,

(11:30):
you know this is this is and in in the
session world, it's you're pretty much only as good as
your last session, you know, and as long as you
keep playing good and you you you know, I didn't
alwaysn't aware what hit records. I was pretty naive back then.
All I cared about was just being invited and playing.
I cared about guitar, you know, that was it. But
when you get invited there, if you if you do
a good job, you get asked back. And that's why

(11:51):
I got asked back to do that Man in the
Mirror song. That's crazy, like that's a generational song. Yeah,
I mean a lot of all those are like those are.
It doesn't feel like that when you're going through it, though,
it's it's I mean, every day, like you know, there
would be this session and the next day might be
doing like like Pepsi cola jingle, and then a movie

(12:11):
or a TV soundtrack, and then you know, I mean
just and then a lot of international music. I mean
l A was a hub for just everything in the
recording and the eighties. As it turned out, I left
in ninety right or eighty nine, and that was really
the end of the golden years. I think the seventies
were the true golden years in l A. UM. I
missed it by a decade. You know, but but it

(12:31):
was still really healthy. And I moved back to Nashville
because we had this band and I want to raise
my kids here. My family, extended family was here, and um,
I didn't realize that I kind of just got out
right under under the radar, you know. I we're talking
about sleep number for one second. So it's fall now.
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(12:54):
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(13:16):
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(13:38):
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You what you get out store or whatever, telling Bobby
Bones sent you. Okay, so you talk about your band Giant,
that was my That was my departure into singing for
a few minutes. Look you, that's out sold every night too.

(14:11):
That's such a that's as such a big song, like
in the way of like vocally like that's a large song.
I'll see you hurt every night every night. I didn't
grow up wanting to be a singer, especially not in
the rock band. And so how did you have been
the singer of your band? Oh? You got time for this.
I'll try to let me see tell me. We got

(14:32):
plenty of time. Tell me the story. It was just
one of those things. You know, you're you're kind of
on the fast track, and and you're recording with a
lot of rock bands and a lot of pop artists,
and and through that journey you kind of see, you know,
there are very few what I would say would be
transcendent artists. Most people it's it's a business, right and
you sit there and you kind of developed this. I

(14:53):
would say it would be an you know, certain certain
ego sense. God, if these guys can do this, I
can do this. So we started a practice band out
I remember it was Ario. Remember the rock band are Yeah, Yeah,
they had a rehearsal space. So a bunch of us
got together. There are a couple of songwriters who were
the singers, and a bunch of studio musicians, and we
started just kind of writing songs and and kind of

(15:16):
a total esque situation again and it total ask you me,
two singers total, the studio musicians, not a bunch of
pretty dudes. I mean, like you know, it was. We
were musically proficient. I'd say, on the live side of
the presentation, we're probably pretty lacking. One of the singers
was Tom Kelly and and and he was a great
singers are great. Tommy Funderbrook was sang on all the

(15:38):
hit records of a backup singer, Tom Kelly. The same thing.
Tom Kelly, I remember one day brought in a song
he said he wanted us to work it up, and
it was it was a song that he wrote, and
they were getting this young girl Madonna was going to record.
It was called like a Virgin, and and I just
remember We're all sitting there going like, we didn't get
to work this song up. This is not I'm not
gonna sit there and sing like a Virgin and and

(16:00):
and and you know, obviously we know what happened to
the song. And Tom Tom was a great writer. That
is basically I'm fast forward. And because this gets really boring,
one of the guys in the band and I Alan Pasqual,
we said, why don't we try this on our own,
invited my brother David out. Mike Bringerdella was a session
stalwart here in Nashville, and uh, I said, I'll sing

(16:20):
and so we started writing songs and that was it.
And I started singing and kind of learning, and I
had a bunch of cool people helped me out. I
had a range, but I had no control. I was
working a lot with Michael Bolton. Then Michael gave me
some tips, which is kind of interesting, how well what tips?
Because Michael a great vocalist without very wide range, Like
what does he say to you like, what's his tips
to learn to sing? It was all breath support, you know,

(16:44):
I mean, none of which I ever accomplished to that level.
I mean it was like he'd make it look easy.
It was like, yeah, I just do this right, you know.
But but it did. It kind of firmed and he said,
you know, he said, sing from here, do this when
you go for the high notes and um, and so
I kind of I kind of eked my way through
and we we did some demos, got signed by an
M record. It was bizarre. So this kid, who was

(17:05):
a studio player, all of a sudden, we're out there
on the road playing, you know. And I just realized
that this was in the middle of the eighties. Bands
like Poison, White Snake, you know, all these bands were
doing it, and if you look at them, you look
at us, there was something definitely missing. And it was
the commitment to that thing. You know. We liked the music,
but the rest of it it wasn't It wasn't there

(17:26):
for us. Look at this guy. We just did a
we just did um. Twenty seven years later, uh, two
months ago, we did a what I swore we'd never did.
We we played together again and being people have been
asking us over in Europe. We we did pretty good
in Europe, and it's for me. Those days are gone, right,

(17:48):
I mean, look at my hair, you know, it's like
you know, I couldn't fit into the Spandex yet. And
and uh, but a local musician his house was burned
down and he was apparently a fan. And so I
had no excuse because Mike Brgnadello, the bass player in
our band, said that there's a guy Brian Cole from
Pittsburgh's a rock singer. He said he's a huge fan.
He come down and sing the songs. Because I said,

(18:08):
I'm not trying to sing that again, it's been twenty
seven years. I'd sound like a I tried it. I
will say this. I tried at my studio at the
house and it was laughable. I said, that's there's not
a chance. No excuse. And so we actually got together
and played the other night. Uh where do we play?
A camera? Which club? But we play? It was fun.
It was fun. It was great and and um um
I was hoping to land. I started it with like
a minute and a a half guitar sol like kind of

(18:30):
in the days of yore. And I thought either I
land this or I looked like a fool. And you,
of course everybody's filming it, you know, on their their phones.
Landed it. That's all I cared about. We got through
it. It It was the reunion farewell tour within fifteen minutes.
That's fine. So when does Giant stop? The Giants stopped?
When when I when I saw even Flow, uh by

(18:52):
pearl Jam, I saw that guy. We were in New
York finishing our second record, and uh I saw this video.
Somebody innocently played me Eddie Vetter, and I thought it, well,
that ain't me, and I can't do that. Remember that,
do you remember that? You know you're too young, and
he's a die hardpologize. You remember even Flow the first
video when he was in that little theater climbing on

(19:12):
the up into the balcony. He climbs all the way
to the side and then he lets himself go to
let the crowd catch him on his back. I just,
I mean, and that's commitment, and and that was something
that that I I mean, I knew I didn't have
that in me, and in music was changing. We were
the end of the eighties, you know, and it was
just like this ain't gonna happen. We we we kind
of limped for another year. I still kept my studio

(19:32):
career going and then um, during that time, um, you know,
we just moved back to Nashville and James Shroud, who
was kind of a legendary producer at that time. He's
still legendary, but at that time he was doing I
don't know, twenty records a year. It was something I
can't process. And he asked me to play on all
of his records and I said, why, I don't know

(19:52):
how to play country music? Said, it doesn't matter, just
play how you play. I'm gonna incorporate that in. And
that was kind of during that that era when when
country music started incorporating rock and pop values. So when
you come over and it's you say that era, like
what was that, you can think back to, like the
big artists, to the big record that you worked on
first where you're like, okay, this might work because there
was some success to it. John Anderson that was he

(20:17):
had this record called Seminole Wind and It and It's
funny is one of those records like kind of old school.
We we got a banded and then we probably cut
the whole record in three days and it was just magical.
And then you know, and then James is doing Clinton
Black and he invited me to play on some of
that stuff, and you know, it's the same thing that
happened in Los Angeles word of mouth. You know, if
you play on a hit, everybody wants that new thing

(20:38):
whatever that you know, unquantifiable thing that gives them that
hit status or whatever. So if you if you're lucky
enough to do it, and you're consistent enough, you know,
it kind of starts rolling. So I so I got
back into the session world again playing in country music,
and the learning curve was steep because I knew that
I was when you have people like Brent Mason run
around Nashville at that time and this guy, this guy

(20:59):
is a legend and a guitar god in my mind.
But there was a place for me in my kind
of rock background to do it. And we worked well.
And I I mean I would do two in three
sessions a day. So as you're doing those again, you're
in three sessions, you're talking about nine hours of playing
with time and travel in between. And it's just down
here in music grow So it's not a big deal.

(21:19):
So if you get that, because it's like nine to
noon most of the time, right, Well back then it
was ten to one, two to five, and then six
to nine, and you have like three sessions some days,
Oh yeah, it's four. Would you wow, I was greedy?
Would you prepare for each session or were you so
strong in your own mind that you could walk in
and pretty much catch it? No, nobody, there was no

(21:40):
prep You didn't the night before, You didn't go over notes. No, no,
you do. You didn't hear the songs until you walked
into the studio. That's the that's the beat. I mean,
you know this happens every day here in town still,
you know. You you come in and teams are kind
of put together, and you hear this music for the
first time. There's very settlementny any kind of uh of
tapes being from before the session. You just react to it. Wow.

(22:03):
So yeah, so you moved to town and you're playing,
But when do you make that transition to go, hey, listen,
I can. I'm a great player, but I want to
be the guy that actually controls all the sounds. Want
be the producer. I didn't make that decision. It was
it was it was I guess this would be near
the mirror the end of the nineties. And I think

(22:24):
I told you this the other night. Um Uh, it
was Mutt Lane. Ironically, I mean, it's just my my
whole uh for Indo country music. It's just bizarre how
it happened, bizarre when it happened. And then kind of
getting that push out of the nest of a player.
I was working on the Shanai records with him and
and he had told me, by the way, I had
done some other records with him over over in London,

(22:45):
and uh, and he told me he was dating the
school named Shania Twain had heard of her, and I
said yeah, and he said I'm gonna do a record
on her. And I said, oh, it's cool. And he
said I'm not going to use you though, And I
said why because I was playing. I can't remember the
artist I was playing at that moment. Um Uh. He said, well,
because you're not a country guitar, but you don't know
how to do that. And he was right. He was

(23:06):
so right. And then all I remember and I kind
of felt a little bit bad. It's like, come on,
give me a shot. I'm playing on all these other
country records. But he being this rock super producer. I mean,
this guy is in the status that that none of
us will ever achieve, you know. And and but he
was right, he knew it. He understood I wasn't a
country guitar player, There's no way. Two days into the

(23:28):
track and I got this phone call. He said, hey, Danny,
and you mind coming down and giving it a play?
And I said, what happened? What happened? You know? He said, well,
I mean this is a big compliment for me, He said,
I I need your risk, the way that you that
you articulated certain kind of rhythm. And the first song
that I remember going and playing was any Man of Mine.
It was kind of a trippy and so anyway that

(23:48):
that went. That went on for a while, and and
a lot of time spent with him. I learned so
much from being around him, as I did these other prisoners.
And he told me, said, you're a producer. What was
this thing? Like? Why is he that genius that he is? Like?
What is it about him that made him special? He's

(24:09):
a great songwriter, number one, which I'm not. I mean,
he's he's a great songwriter. He gets to the essence
of a song. He knows what it is, whether it's
whether it was a C. D C or Shania Twin
or anything in between. He just gets it. He's the
most unassuming um person. He walking here, you wouldn't know
it was him. He used to write when he would

(24:29):
come to Nashville, and this is a guy who number one.
When he moves to a country, they negotiate his tax status.
It's bizarre. I mean, this guy's this guy's worth quite
a bit. Never well wears his wealth, which I so respect.
He would He would ride a bike around music row
strap of guitarist back were sandals, and that was that
was him. He has this ability to he has an

(24:52):
an innate respect for humans. So he never makes you
feel um less. He knows how to he knows how
lead he knows how to how to bring um out
stuff and players. He would work with bands that they
didn't know they had and so when he would work
with studio musicians, that was kind of a treat for him.
But he would do the same thing, and you just

(25:12):
had to buy into the fact that he was hearing
something and he was listening for something, as long as
your ego wouldn't get too involved, because you would do
it over and over again. You'd sit and play a
little ding ding ding ding ting part for maybe three
hours at a time. Would you ever go I just
now that no, I actually knew what he was talking about.
I could, I could hear it. He's he kind of
hears in slow motion. He wants every note of every
song to be the greatest. And I don't know the

(25:35):
philosophically that I'm a hundred percent down with that. I
like a little bit more around the edges. I've been
affected by some other music that I like a balance between.
But I understood it. But he also heard the way
that I was hearing, and then I think that's why
he said you need to do this, And it was
a shock to me. So then how do you do
it the first time? Who takes their risk on all
Danny Huff, the guy that's never produced a record, Well,

(25:56):
it's a little tough because of the way that the
music situation was set up here in Nashville. You know,
there's a hierarchy, there's a way things are done. You've
got your producers, you got your publishers. You know, your
labels and your musicians were you know, your audience can't
see my my tear. But when I say musicians, it's
down to the bottom and respected. But everybody kind of
does their gig, you know, and you didn't. You didn't
poke your head too much out of your your class

(26:19):
and what you're doing. And um so, anyway to back up,
because of my rock music background, there was a chance
to produce Megadeth. They were kind of near the end
of their days and Megadeth came down here. I started
producing them. You listen to that? That's so funny? Was

(26:41):
that cryptic writings? It is? That was recorded to the
Nashville at that you your way on top of goth
go on. So at the same time, Faith Hill was
changing her producer and and uh she and she and
I were friends, and I guess they were all hanging out,
and I think it was my wood you said, hey,
why don't you try your guitar player? And I played

(27:03):
on a bunch of Faith's records at that point, and
you know, that just wasn't done. So she took a chance.
She she used Tim's producer, Byron Galimore, who is a
longtime friend of mine. I used to play tons of
records for Byron, and so I got that was kind
of my break but ironically and Nashural, I mean I
remember hearing you know, you go to the publishing companies
and back then, you know, back then, the producers were

(27:24):
the ones who were listening to the songs for the artist,
very much different than it is now. And I remember,
you know, I played on all these hit songs, but
when I was listening to songs from these publishers, they
were really bad. And I didn't realize until later that
they've given me their like their their third drawer songs
that you aren't even getting the high they were going
to to the big dogs first totally. I mean it's like,
come on that your guitar player. I remember hearing one

(27:46):
and our guy say anybody can produce his hit song
of faith Hill, which there's some truth to. I mean,
I hurt to hear it. Um, I mean, I think
I did good on that song. Um that was that
was a Southern song called let Me Let Go. That
really kind of me up in my career at that point.
But it took a while, and it actually took a young,
a young tape copy guy back. This is in the
day when they were actually tapes involved. These weren't empty

(28:10):
three's and he was in the tape copy room in Almo,
and he was friends. His name is Darryl Franklin. He
was friends with a lot of the writers, and he
figured a way to circumvent the system, and he handed
me some of their songs. And there was a young
writer at that point, he was pretty undiscovered named Jeff Steele,
who ended up writing you know, I mean, I can't
enumerate how many massive hits this guy has written. I

(28:32):
was lucky this former relationship with him early, and that's
how I got the songs. And you know how it's
how everybody breaks and you you have to bend the rules,
and it takes a lot of people. So it wasn't
all me, but I delivered the goods and and one
thing led to the next to the next, and and
then I produced. I got asked to produce this band
who I think was getting ready to get get cut
from r C at that time, named Lone Star. Have

(28:55):
we done this before I'm done producing myself over here something? Yeah,
let me look for this over here. There there's and
I'll give you the other side of that. I thought.
Another song on the record was the Big Heads. I
mean this, you know, nobody knows this stuff. And I

(29:18):
put all the money and all the time in this
other song. When they released it, it almost tanked their career.
And it wasn't because it was because Joe Gilani, who
was running that label at that time, had the foresight.
He had some other people listening to the song. He
flipped the first single in the middle of the first single.
I can't remember what this other song was called, but
you know you so that ended up totally validating me.

(29:40):
All of a sudden, I'm this this, you know, I mean,
I'm the new genius right in the new Genius are hard.
I mean not just country that crossed over into like
mainstream America pop world. It was you know, and it's
it's that. And then all of a sudden, you know
a lot of young you know, musicians who aspired to
this me. You know, it's how do you get in?

(30:02):
And it's the chicken and the egg thing. Nobody knows
you have to have a hit for these for these
label heads to to entrust you with the money and
these these projects. Because the answer, the truth is that
nobody really knows. We just if we if we've battened
in our three hundreds we're gonna be in the Hall
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(31:26):
Com slash Bobby Cast. All right, so you work with
Lone Star and that's the That was the one where
at least you said, hey, here's my resume and it's
quite big now because I did the Lone Star record.
How many songs on the Lone Star records you do?
I'll do all of it? Yeah, that was that was
that record. I can't remember the Lonely Grill. It was
a record, and then there's a bunch of hits off that.
So to a producer, because we move into the producer

(31:48):
part for my listeners that I don't know exactly what
a producer does, because luckily I do, and I didn't
until I started going into the studio myself and seeing.
The producer pretty much has to hear and see everything.
So now you're not just playing guitar, you're listen, you're
putting keys on things like what is in your mind?
How would you describe a record producer? But it's the

(32:11):
person that gets it done. I mean, there's no set
way to do it. I mean I worked for great
producers who were not musicians, even who you couldn't talk
in terms of musical language. They they couldn't tell you
which cord to player or whatever, but they knew how
to put teams together. I'm obviously a musician, so it's
kind of like being a player coach, you know, that
type of thing, and it helps me cast. I'm a
real believer in casting. You know, you don't put I

(32:34):
learned probably more about how to produce by by working
with producers who who you know, I was on the
receiving end of some of their mistakes. You know, you
get somebody cast who's not the right person to play,
and you're kind of, you know, pistol whipping him into
into doing something that he doesn't know how to do.
You don't do that, you know, you you play to
people's strengths, and and so knowing who does what and

(32:57):
who does what really well is a good is a
good leg up in it. And I know how to communicate.
I usually don't like to play guitar well i'm producing.
I usually do it after the fact and in the
overdub scenario just because it's hard to when I sit
and play guitar, I'm a guitar player. I can't help it.
I just that's that's kind of what who I am, Um,
when when? And sometimes I will do it. But but

(33:17):
you you try to listen to the big picture. You're
you're supposed to be listening to that relationship between the artist,
that song and the band. So that's the big picture.
And then what kind of minusia you get into is
is kind of dependent on, you know, your ability and
your interest in Some producers get you know, get you know,
put on the gloves and get way down deep into it.
Some producers hire that out, you know, and there's no

(33:39):
right or wrong way of doing it. But in the end,
does it work? And that's what the record companies care about.
My question, I guess is And so I'll go back
to the Beach Boys for example, whenever Brian Wilson would
produce the Beach Boys, the band would go and tour
and he and he would have all the stuff ready
for them, and you know, the Wrecking Crew, I mean,

(34:00):
all those guys were playing the band wasn't really playing
the records. But then they would go out on tour
and play all the songs. Now, as a producer, are
there times where you're like, you know what, I'm producing
a band, but to really get a good record, I
need to get players in here and not the actual band.
Is that ever awkward? Oh, it's always awkward, especially if
in Nashville we set up a little bit differently. Historically,

(34:24):
it's always been I think this town has been more
of an extension of publishing. And that's the way that
the record business, that's my view of it. Um touring
is a separate entity, you know. And and so it was,
you know, the artists would come in with the producers,
with their players and studio players. They would do that
record we cut. The artists would outdid their thing with
their bands, and never the two kind of intertwined. You

(34:46):
know what about a band though, That's that's where now
all of a sudden fast forward, you know. Yeah, there
are artists who who is like, I want my sound.
I don't want to sound like the last record. It's
and that's really tough to do because you get these
musicians the songs, I mean, pop music, pop country, it's all.
It's it's still a pretty narrow tunnel to go through. Right.

(35:07):
There's it's it's just the pop music in general. You
get the same musicians, the same songs, ish right, and
it's going to kind of sound the same. So these
artists have a have a have a real reason to
say I want my people. There's the rub because sometimes
there it's dependent on time um ability. You know, just
because you can play what's on the record doesn't mean

(35:28):
you can create it, play in in time and be
able to move on a moment's notice. So so there's
always some negotiation there. As a producer, I prefer having
band members from the touring crews come in because I
think that even though it takes a little bit longer,
sometimes I think that gives it a little more identity.
And now would never ask you to name anyone, but
as there's been a situation where that a whole band

(35:49):
that we even know as a band, where the lead
singer was the only because the band just didn't have
the chops, but the lead singer saying and the rest
of the gazer studio players, oh yeah, oh that's a comment.
That's really a common thing, and that's the the real
band like that absolutely yeah, I mean, you know, and
it just and again it you know, I mean I
understand somewhere. I mean again, I've warned both hats. I've

(36:09):
been a player on these things before. I used to
uh the first two records of Rascal Flats. I played
guitar on those records. I was one of you know,
Joe Don Rooney's a great guitar player. And the first
song that we did, yeah, that's my first song that
I produced him and and and Martin Bright, Marty Williams

(36:30):
produced the first two records. They were great that God
bless the Broken Road on it. I mean, this is
great stuff. It was more studio players that I think
Jay played a little bit on those records. He may
played a little bit more. I probably, you know, I
probably don't have all my research, but I remember that
we were all in there planning and I kept looking
at Joe Don, Dude, you need to play these things.
And so when they decided to make a change and

(36:51):
they called me, that was that was the big thing.
You know. I got Joe Don playing all that stuff.
I mean, that's that's him. Now. Some of the rhythm
parts I played, or or I would hire that out,
but he was always there playing all the solos with
Joe Don from that moment on, those guys pretty professional
all the way around. Absolutely. Jay is a great baseball
he's a great musician period. I mean, there's only three
of them, so um, and I think now, I mean

(37:13):
I still used other studio players. I mean, you know,
I mean I didn't use their road crew and and
and to their credit, Jay, who is producing their records
now and they're really good records. I think he's using
I know he's using Jim Riley, their drummer, who's a
great drummer. So you know, I mean, producers get you know,
you get comfortable. They expect you to deliver. The record
label and the band actually expects you to deliver. As

(37:35):
long as you're having hits, you're in right. So so
there is that I think you said. It's it's just
awkward and uncomfortable and you kind of got to navigate
those those uh, those situations kind of those only been
three guys, but those three guys can play well. Gary
doesn't play mean he sings well, but you can play
that voice. He plays that voice, Yeah, yeah, play at all.
That was I do have a great story about that song.

(37:56):
This is and I don't think they will mind it
me tell this sort of but that's this is a
great ory and this is just this is just the
beauty and the recklessness and craziness of these guys, you know.
So I think the first song that I did with them,
when when they said they're gonna make a producer change,
it was I think we recorded the song, um life
is a Highway for that car. Yeah, so it was

(38:17):
great and everybody's and there we did that and it
was you know, it was like we we really nailed it.
I mean, doing a cover song sometimes scary anyway, So
it was gonna be well in a month and a half,
we're gonna start the record, and it was look great
and you know, very loose, and the guys are touring
all the time. So we show up in the studio
and uh, this is out in Franklin and we're gonna
cut what hurts the most that night, right, So we

(38:37):
show up and I think it's we're gonna start at
seven o'clock and it's about eight o'clock and I asked Jay,
I said, hey, so when's Gary gonna show up? And
just without missing a beat, Jay goes, oh, he's not coming,
so huh he said, no, he's hunting, this is this
is whatever scenes. I don't know what do you shoot
right now? Right? You know, but there's there is a

(39:00):
on of a season, right and he acted like you know,
well duh, I mean everybody knows that Gary's not going
to show up during hunting season. And I'm sitting there going, well,
I didn't get the memo. I mean, I'm assuming that
we need a singer to sing this song that we've
never you guys never And Jay goes home hit a key,
goes about that key. That'll be about rastbuter Jerry's Gary

(39:21):
sings and that was it. So we we just cut
the track. Is that bizarre? And Gary lives in the
woods when Gary is not in the woods, Like I
know that about Gary now, Like Gary lives in the
woods when he's not on the he's unapologetically and you
know that's his right, that's what it's sacred for him.
I get it. I was a little thrown off at first,
but you know, because you're producing a record without a singer,

(39:42):
well yeah, the first yeah, you'd think you know, But
now there was president because I mentioned I used to
play on records without singers, So okay, we can do this,
but it just it took me about fifteen minutes to
get my head kind of when does Gary show up
to do the vocals? Then whenever he wanted to, whenever
it wasn't hunting season, you know, I mean he would
he would come in and and he just come over

(40:03):
the house and and you know, you know, he get
has his chew and tobacco, you know, point me in
the direction. He just going there in wale and you know,
it just does what he does. He's he's he's beautifully
naive is not the right word. Detached in a lot
of ways. He's such a pure talent and he just

(40:24):
does it. When he does it, you know, it's just
it's he's not like a guy who likes to be
in the studio, and there's a freshness about it. It
takes a little while to getting used to it. But
I love that story and that song. That song, Um
that was that was a massive part in in kind
of another validation for me as a producer in town.
How about this one Taylor? Yeah, yeah, what she liked

(40:48):
to work with as an artist, sh she's great. I
mean that song. I'm trying to think how that came down.
I think that was that was kind of in her
transition era, and they weren't. They weren't roping that. And
so I think she'd already done the vocals and and uh,
Scott burschetta Um said, I don't think she's gonna come

(41:09):
in and re sing. I think you're gonna have to
use that, but could you recut the track? So she
had already cut the vocals somewhere else, and so they
just give that to you and say make the song happen. Yes, yeah,
it was. It was a little bit bizarre. They just weren't,
you know. And this happens to all of us. This
is tough thing, and and it just happened to me
just recently too. You know, sometimes you don't get it,

(41:29):
you know, and and and the label and the artists
really think that that this song is the deal. They
gotta get it done. And if you know, sometimes you
look at it's like if you look at a painting
so close. That's how it is to you, and you can't.
And her producer at that time, Nathan Chapman, who is
I don't know, this guy is genius level. I think
he's one of the best that we got here in Nashville,

(41:51):
and he's one of the best people I know too.
So it was tough one, Nate, and he was he
was man, he was so pro about it. He was
so cool. And he just sent me over the vocal
said he have a go at this thing. Man. You know,
I said, I'm just I'm I'm I'm looking at it's
too close for me. And so so I took it.
And you know, I had had a different kind of
take on and when did it? And so you send it?

(42:12):
And did you since you are saying the vocals, did
you work with her or do you just work with
her voice? That was in a recorded little well mostly
on that the voice the voice had been recorded. I
can't remember if I did. It was a while back,
so I can't remember if I READD harmony vocals or what.
I remember. She came over the house wants to re
sing a couple of lines that I wanted to try.
And that was that was basically She's great. I mean,

(42:32):
she's she's Taylor Swift. You say you missed what did
you miss on? You said you missed recently? What did
you miss It? Was? It was only tell you the story? Yeah, story, Yeah, yeah,
it was. I mean, I don't think I mixed missed,
but but I was. I was doing a song with
Keith and and it was you know, and because of
my I guess, my age, my status in the industry,

(42:53):
I I heered a lot of projects like this and
I and I see the pain in the producers that
have worked their their ass off basically to get this
stuff right, and all of a sudden they're calling in
this old geezer, you know, to fix it, and so
and it's it's it's hurtful. It just really is. It's
a business, right, and usually I know how to finish.
I'm I'm a really good finisher on this stuff. So

(43:14):
um so I get it, you know, and it and
it it doesn't happen to me a lot, I will
say that. But but the other day I was doing
a song with Keith and and actually Ross Copperman and
I were doing it together and and I think we
did a really good job, but just Keith hurt it
differently and and he and he took it somewhere else.
So it's like you get a little you know, you
gotta learn how to take it. I mean, this is
you know, you get benched in in in pro sports,

(43:35):
you get benched in music. I mean you know, as
a player they raise my parts at time, and and
and it's it's one thing that you get it intellectually,
but you still it hurts. It never it never gets
you never get used to to getting replaced on something
just happens to you. You mentioned Keith and Ross and
I hit this one here because in different ways they
were both involved in this with yous wrote if I'm

(44:01):
right because Ross was the friend of mine, right that? No?
He actually that's one of the only hits in Nash
from the Roston right. Okay, so Stephen Stephen Lee Olson
wrote it, I know, did you produce with Ross? No?
I do, Keithan Ross had nothing to do with the song.
Just giving Ross every hit, for every every credit for
every head I guess there is. It's great. No, it's good. No, No,

(44:21):
actually he didn't know that one. Um, but you know
you know what I think, Stephen Lee Old, Stephen Lindsay
and Clint Luggerbert, sorry about that. Ross, I gave your
extra credit. So but this is you. You produced a
song here, which if when Keith comes to you and
to say I want a song to feel a certain way,

(44:42):
does he do that on this song and go ahead.
I needed to feel and then what does that song
feel like? With Keith? Did? I go back to somebody
like you right? And it was bizarre. I mean, I
don't think he wanted to work with me at first
because because he didn't like the records that I was producing.
But it worked out. That was the first song that
we actually did together. And then I don't know how
many we did, like six records straight, and now I

(45:04):
work with him. I don't do all of his records.
I mean, you know, there's a certain amount, you know,
you kind of squeeze the fruit, and that's you know,
you can only get so much. But we keep returning
because there's something that we have um and it's really undefinable.
I don't know how to tell you. Like when Keith
and I get in a room that we usually do
no prep and just play me a song, go you think,

(45:26):
and we just start. We usually pick up guitars on Keith,
I don't. It's never worked out where I haven't been
able to do it. No, I've I've um you know,
interesting song on that same record, the first single I
did I did with him, Ross wrote it. He didn't
produce it, but he the John three sixteen song John

(45:49):
John and I think I think actually Keith took that
one to Nathan Chapman first, and I think Nathan just
was like it was a totally different song at that point,
and and Nate just said, you know, I just I
just don't hear it, which is fine, you know. And
and and so Keith called me up. I was second
calling that one, you know, And we went into studio
and we just I think it was a drummer and
and uh, Keith and I that was it, and the

(46:11):
bass player was going to come in, and the bass
player hadn't shown up yet, and we were just kind
of strumming through ideas. I grabbed a guitar started playing something.
He said, oh I did that listen, Okay, is there
a bass here? So he grabbed the bass, and all
of a sudden, the identity of the song happened that
quickly when when he played bass. Poor bass player came
in right on time for his big Keith Urban session.
I think it was a debut session, and I had

(46:33):
to say bass player, and I think we got the
bass part. It was like, yeah, it was Keith and
it but it was really good, you know, Keith, I
thought we were going to replace it, but it had
so much personality. All that to say, with Keith and I,
there is no we have no set way of doing things.
I mean a lot of times he'll come over to
the house or I'll go over to his house. We
we hand guitars back and forth, you know, and and uh,

(46:54):
we have a certain understanding as guitar players, and songs
just kind of emanate out of that, you know. Urban
as a player. Where would he be in this studio
session world if he decided to be a studio player.
If he Keith is a is a great musician, is
a great guitar player, he is an identity, which which

(47:15):
doesn't necessarily translate into studio work because studio sometimes it's
it's it's it's the ability to take on different identities. So, um,
the talent, I don't I don't think Keith reads his
his musical like you is off the charts, so he
could adapt to anything. Um how that would translate in
day to day session work, I don't know. I guess

(47:37):
it's a different lending versus non lending your minds totally
and it's not and it's ever thought about it like
that before. Yeah, I mean it's like, yeah, it's it's
it's it's like the idea that the foolish nose is saying,
who's the best drummer, who's the best guitar player in
the role that you can how can you compare? You know,
how could you compare with Keith Richards to under Segovia.

(47:58):
You can't that comparison. They both play guitar. But that's
it's a different world. Who have you seen play as
a player? Like that's not where you're just like, man,
I could never do that like that you've seen with
your on eyeballs and you're like, I don't know, there's
no way. I'm humbled like that all the time. There's

(48:18):
there's a lot of things I can do, like I
can do just because I practiced so much in my life. Um,
I mean there were some there were some like like
jazz players like Joe Pass I could I could never
play like that. I couldn't uh chicken pick like Brent
Mason does on some of those records in the nineties
was Alan Jackson records. I could play the notes, but
they wouldn't sound like that. So so it's more it's

(48:40):
more like it's not that physically I can't do those things.
It's like that I know they will never sound that
good artists wise, who have you been blown away by
with their style and how good they were? Like we
would like they really are as legit as we see them.
Like you mentioned Keith Richers, I don't have you ever
seen Keiths play like in person? When you see Keith
Richers play, what do you see the soundtrack in my

(49:00):
my life? I mean it's it's not that what Keith
can do I couldn't do when I was twelve years
old or ten for that fact. I mean it's not
it's not that hard to do, but to do it
like he does it that that's a lifetime and nobody
can do it but him. Keith. Keith is has really
I think developed into that soul as a as a
musician he speaks. I think the highest combment I can

(49:22):
play pay to Keith is it when you hear him
play guitar, you can you know it's Keith Urban And
I think that that identity that's very hard to achieve.
It's a different scale than a studio musician who's who's
having to to to wear ten hats maybe in the
course of a of a week about like a guy
like a John Mayer. Oh, he's stunning, stunning, great, he's
he's like a student of guitar. I mean it's like, uh,

(49:44):
and his identity changes quite a bit. I mean he's rhythmically,
his chops are first rate. He he can play Jeff
Beck almost like Jeff Beck. And that's a pretty high
compliment because that's my favorite guitar player. Um, he's a
blues aficionado. I mean he he can play pretty much anything,
and he plays a legit prince. Totally underrated, totally underrated.

(50:08):
I underrated him even in the eighties. I just I
didn't realize how great of a rhythm guitar player and
a lead guitar player. He was fearless too, Tom Petty. Uh,
it's you can't extract that from the identity of his music. Um.
Great in the in the sense that it's it's when
he defined a genre in the way he plays. I

(50:28):
wouldn't say he's not a shredder. He couldn't do that.
Hen he's not a guy that we blow you away
with a soloing. But he's But he's I don't think
you can take the guitar away from Tom Petty. He
is that with the guitar. What about the guys And
I'm just asking, obviously we talked about none of this,
but I guess someone like died Bag Darrel from like Pantera,
who I watched him and I'm just like, holy crap,

(50:50):
that's a different kind of guitar. But when you see
I don't even know what that is called. And it's metal,
but is that that trash metal? Heavy metal? But when
you watch him like dime bag Darrel, is that a
guy you look at a go man? I got to
play Oh yeah yeah, and that in that job. I
mean again, you know it's like in in that style
of music. He was as legit as as as it came,

(51:10):
and it flowed from him. If you like mus you
don't even like us the style, but you can you
know when it's true. And the way he played was
was staggering. Because there's a lot of great guys from
there there for you, man, he he makes a guitar.
The best way I can say is I took Sherry,
my wife, Sherry does not like instrumental music, and I

(51:32):
took her down to a show down in Atlanta, one time, actually,
Joe Don Rooney had us come down with him and
and uh, I took my wife, who would never watch
a guitar player in her life. She thinks guitar solos
are waste of time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and since since
we were twenty so so yeah, so I've been I've
been tutored on so my guitar solos are very succinct
these days. But but I took her down the show

(51:54):
and she was enraptured because he's so lyrical. It's not
about chops, it's not it's he's beaks. It's like a
human voice, and it's I mean, you know, way seventy
something like that. And he still plays as good as
as as he ever did. He does stuff that that
again you could you could sit and do, but you
could never do and sound like him. You know. As

(52:14):
a producer, now, how do you watch your lockdown on
music not getting leaked? Because m h it was. It
was actually scarier um in the early two thousand's because
we're still making CD copies and a lot of stuff
was getting linked by by you know, temporatres at the
studios and whatnot. Right now, I just know I don't

(52:37):
send out stuff. I mean, I just people come to
me and I just keep it on my hard drives
my computer. That's it, you know. And if I send
stuff out, I'll send I'll send them, you know, I'll
send them something like an MP three on their their
I message. You'll do that. You'll do that, though, Like
you don't worry that. I don't know the Russians or

(52:57):
anybody came up. Russians like country music. They like money though. Yeah,
in the in the in the popular I remember there
was I guess there's a certain protocol. I remember Justin
Bieber was doing a song with Rascal Flats, and I
remember I apparently made the mistake of sending an MP
three via email to one of the New York record

(53:19):
labels so they could sign off of this thing. And
I got reprimanded royally, we do it this way. It
was encrypted. You know, it's like whatever, Okay, I got it.
Maybe we're a little slower here. And they even figured out,
you know, with new artists, it doesn't matter because nobody
knows who they are. Like there's a lot of new artists,
you know, like when you're doing you know, so I
got about three or four new artists you have, you've

(53:39):
probably heard of him because you're you have, you're, you're
you're pretty close to the post what's going on in town.
But for the most part, nobody's gonna know who these
people are. And it's some pretty significant music. It doesn't matter,
you know, just it's floating around. Tell they there's But
when it's a star, yeah, it takes on a little
different dimension. Tell me about this one. So we talked
about you producing some hart carry on or what here?

(54:01):
Now did you produce with cart Was she in the
studio with you? Yes, because I've seen her singing in
a studio and it's like she's like, man, man, she
makes you she makes you look like a genius. I
mean you you love singers like that. She's there. There's
a there's also a new I mean she curious who
she is. Um. I didn't do any of the country stuff.
That was a weird story on that one. I ended

(54:22):
up doing this stuff that they that was not country,
which is you know, which is heartbreaking me because I
knew she was gonna be a country star. That's that
that that's kind of water under the bridge. But uh,
like there's a there's a young artist named Rachel Womack
right now, who I don't. You probably haven't heard of her.
She's so new, but she's in that league totally thin air, right,

(54:42):
I mean, and she comes into the studio and just
sings a pass. I mean normally you're working on this
stuff for days and it's like you just sit there
and go, God, there is a God. Somebody is looking
out after me. It just makes you get past the
technical side of making records and just you're just onto
making music. So because what it is is so big,

(55:03):
it's like technical because I'm that's greatness right here? Yes,
and yeah, yeah, and not everything is like that and
and and you know what, not every song is made
like that. And there's some significant songs that have made
the air work pieces. Um. You know. Um. There was
a song years ago that Keith and I did UM
that I think was so significant. It was called What's

(55:26):
the one? Uh, I'm horrible on title has always been
Rodney Kraw wrote Making Memories. I don't know if you
know that song. Great lyrics is something that Keith didn't write,
but he was. He was fanatical but getting a song
right because he didn't write it. He wanted to honor
the writer. We must have recorded that song seven different ways.
It's not that Keith Keith come singing in one take two,

(55:47):
but we were trying to get to that the essence
of that song, it's so simple. It sounds like you
could have done in ten minutes. That song is probably
the hardest song we've ever been a part of. So
you never know what you're getting into and this stuff.
Let me give you a boll scenarios. Scenario one, you
have an artist, you really couldn't hit it with them.
It just didn't work. So they went somewhere else and

(56:09):
they were huge successful and they worked with somebody else
who had that artist totally. I mean, that was That
was a heartbreaker for me. You know, you you it was,
it was, it was, And it went to a dear
friend of mine, so I Mark Bright, So I mean
it's it's as it should be, you know, but it
But it was one of those situations. I knew I
was being teed up by by Clive Davis to do

(56:30):
these songs. He he thought she should be a pop
arts That was like a Diane Warrant song there, and
I knew it carry was gonna declare and I wasn't
gonna be Hey, well she won't give you a pop artist.
But I was recording these songs that we're not going
to do anything. I just knew it, you know. So
that was a tough one. But who was it that
you heard then that you know had been around and
just but you were like, I think I got these

(56:51):
guys or girls like that. You were like, man, let
me have a shot at him, and and you actually
broke through with them because of how together you jelled.
You know. I've really never actually I've been lucky, Bob.
Most people I haven't solicited gigs. It's just they usually
they usually come towards me, which is bizarre. Um, I'm

(57:13):
trying to think if there's anybody that I've I mean,
I remember at one point ten twelve years ago that
I called Scott Bruschette and I said, hey, why don't
you call me for your new label? And he laughed,
he said I thought you were too expensive, And so
that was like a call like that, and that led
to a bunch of these things. You're pretty expensive expensive.

(57:33):
Listen I hear how much of the A side. Listen,
it's worth it? It ain't h ain't hungary Dan Hug
you also did a lot with t R. Thomas on
the last record. Oh man, yeah, that's he's he's he's special.
I mean, you know that record, the stuff that got
left on the cutting room floor on that record. You
think there were two records there? Oh yeah, yeah, I mean,

(57:53):
you know that's hard to market it, you know, but
but it's so freaking good. How do you work with
another producer because that you co produced songs? I couldn't,
you know what? And I think that's kind of the
new thing. I mean, I look, I'm I'm I'm at
the old end of this of this game here. I mean,
you know, it's like and I know my worth, I
know what what I what I bring to the table.
But I'm not years old, you know. I mean I'm

(58:14):
not I'm not thirty. And it's and so my I
have to look through the lens of younger people. I mean,
it's really important. And I saw the great Quincy Jones
was was a guy who really made that very obvious.
And you want to stay in the game, you can't
let your pride dictate dictate you know how you're gonna
make your music. So it's really reinvented me being Jesse Fraser.

(58:36):
You you you met him the night and I mean,
you know, and all those guys, um, they they hear
music a different way. And then I kind of put
what I do on top of that or or underneath whatever,
you know, And I'm sure what two people calling shots
at times, there's got to be a sort of a
power struggle, right if you have two bosses you think

(58:59):
you know, No, No, I mean maybe because I'm so
much older, you know, it doesn't seem it doesn't seem
that way. And I'm not old, younger than you have
all your hair. It's well, you know, you know, but
in musical years and dog years, dog musical years, I'm
I'm two thousand. You know, I'm methus a little bit.

(59:21):
But no, it's so far, you know. It's like sometimes
you have a difference of opinion, but but you know,
like I'm not. I'm not dictatorial in the way I
do things. And it's it's weird because I do enough
co production, you know, work with Julian and Joe on
that record too. I didn't know Julian that well. So
Julian done a bunch of one direction stuff and I
much have pop stuff. Yeah, and and he has has

(59:43):
his direction, you know. Um, and and sometimes it's just
learning kind of getting your dance coordination. But then then
I'll end up doing you know, it's like so, so
I'll do that, and I think, well, that's gonna kind
of be my lot. I'm gonna be the that dude
in the co production thing. And then I end up
working with Kane Brown and you know, and you know
that's to least something that you wouldn't put me with,
you know, And that's that's going stunning. Lee, Well, all

(01:00:05):
of a sudden, that's that was a real gift obviously
for Kane. You know what he's doing. It's just all
of a sudden taking off like a rocket. It's bizarre. So, um,
I don't know how my production career is going to
be even in a year from now. It just is
kind of what it is. If you lower your rate,

(01:00:25):
raging idiots will hire you. You need to lower it. Like, well,
how are you like like a tent do the pro
bona thing just to hang out with you? I think that, Yeah,
I don't know if i'd have much to offer there. Yeah,
everything by watching anything you want to ask this, I've
been just learning a lot and taking it all in. Um,

(01:00:47):
I'd like to do something kind of like a prediction,
you know, what's out there right now and in our
our format right now, Like what what's the prediction for
you that like people need to look out for this artist? Wise? Um, well,
there's right now sitting at the studio I'm getting ready
to go back today. There's a young guy named Ryan

(01:01:07):
Follows A know Ryan, Yeah, and you know he's trying
to find his way in here. I think we got
this one song that's gonna do something, it really hits.
There's just this young artist, Rachel Warwick I speaking about
a minute ago. She's she's a lightning boat. I don't know.
She's from Muscle Shoals, doesn't know anything about country music
at all. She's and she's she's the southern as a banjo,

(01:01:29):
you know, and she has a soul. I mean there's
something about this girl that's that's riveting. Is it for
you with work up with Ryan? Because I know Ryan
and Ryan did the pop punk stuff for a while. Okay,
So I mean that right, there's a challenge. How do
you transition that without people going Okay, come on, like
you gotta find like you said, you gotta find that
spot where it still feels natural. Well yeah, I mean,

(01:01:53):
you know, and you gotta you know, country music is
a huge tent. I mean, it's which is sweet. You know,
it's like it doesn't have to be one certain way. Um.
I think with him, I started, I came in on
the back end of the record. He had already done
the same thing, kind of a closer. They needed some credibility,
I guess, and this, uh the record was really good,
but it was extremely pop leaning and I don't know

(01:02:14):
if he had quite found his his voice. And as
a result of that, I don't think they released the
whole record yet. So we went in kind a couple
of songs, and I think we found that kind of
nice contrast, that juxtaposition of kind of how he sings.
He's a great singer and and kind of that soul
and and you know, words, I have a hard time
describing this. Words. You just kind of fiddle with this
stuff and all of a sudden it feels true. And

(01:02:36):
he's got a song called level Do That to You,
which which I think is really powerful. You know, I
hear the producers pretty good st I don't know, I
didn't step on the streets, just on the streets. So
I really appreciate you coming in, Like you want a
couple of c m as for Producer of the Year,
like you do. You got it, you have, you got nothing,
and you got it all. Like I tell you, there
was the one guy Geet. There are people everywhere, and

(01:02:57):
I was like, I gotta get a picture of Dan.
So like, I'm a huge fan. So the fact that
you would come there and talk to me for an hour,
I really appreciate that. Than kidding. I mean you guys, um,
you stepped into some massive shoes here too. I mean this,
you know this, you know the history of this time,
and I know your your ability and you have stepped
into him and commanded it. So congratulations. Thanks. It's also

(01:03:19):
the same old equipment. Luckily for me, they won't even
upgrading facilities. As you can see, this is Jerry House's
old equipment here on the board. So let me say
this real quick. You can search for the Whiskey Riff
episode thirty three. Uh, they're doing a State of the
Union on the Country format where they talk about Vegas
and producer an Assis down with Hunter Hayes, and so
you can check out the Whiskey Riff podcast. Just search

(01:03:41):
for that on iTunes or iHeart radio or wherever you
listen to podcasts. But that's gonna be it for us here, Dan,
I really appreciate you coming in. I know I said
it like eighty four times already, but I'm a huge fan.
If you have anything you haven't needed any New Year
fresh here, you haven't need fresh here, you let me know.
It's been really great. Thank you. We'll see you got
us next time. Here podcast