March 10, 2022 • 37 mins
Lisa Harper {@lisadharper} is on with Amy for this episode and we couldn’t love her more! Lisa is known as a Christian author, speaker and theologian and has the best personality in the world. Amy kicked things off with some rapid fire questions as an ice breaker for Lisa…she’s such a fun person to get to know! Then they talked about how Lisa became a beautiful storyteller and turned that gift into a multi-faceted career {which now includes a brand new podcast called ‘Lisa Harper’s Back Porch Theology.’} Like Amy, Lisa also adopted from Haiti, so she shared her adoption journey with us and then they closed out with some ‘4 Things Gratitude’ where Lisa shared a book, a show, an instagram follow, and a drink that she is thankful for!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Okay, casa a little food for you. So life. Oh
it's pretty, but it's pretty beautiful. Thank that's a little
(00:23):
month kicking four Happy Thursday. I am so honored today
to be sitting here with the Lisa harper A. Lisa,
I've admired you for years, so I'm just super pumped
(00:44):
and thank you so much for coming for I'm so tickled.
I feel like I'm gritting so big to be with you.
My cheeks are cramping. Well, I mean, Lisa, she's the
real deal. She has fourteen books published or more is
it fourteen? And some like emotions, all the things ish.
She speaks at churches, conferences, domestically, internationally, like all around
the world. I feel like before COVID, anytime I would
(01:06):
see you on your Instagram, you were literally in an airport,
we were you know where. It was so weird when
I wasn't traveling here, and that especially that first year
of COVID, I was so star crazy to not be traveling.
That we have five acres and I thought I'll just
get a chainsaw and I'll cut down some trees because
I have so much pent up energy. And I accidentally
cut one of our propane lines and almost blew us up.
(01:30):
I thought I'd probably need to be more protective and
get back on the road. Yeah. Yeah, I love being home,
but I love being on the road to definitely always
on the go, and I'm sure some of that is
starting to pick up back up again. You're a mom
to sweet Missy, yet I think might claim to fame
who you adopted from Haiti and I want to get
more into that later. And then you're also a podcaster.
(01:52):
We're going to talk about brand new and did not
have the wisdom that you have back porch theology when
you posted about that idea? Do you right away? And
I was like, you want to come on the podcast.
That's just some of the amazing things that you do.
So first I thought we would start off with a
little rapid fire Q and a like getting to know you.
Maybe if some of my listeners are like, I have
(02:13):
not had a lot of caffeine today, so I'll try
to I'll try to be quick, okay, texting or talking?
Oh talking favorite day of the week Saturday. Why because
Saturday is always represent meeting new people for me and
I'm really relational and there's just something about connecting. Yeah,
and you'll learn about me with rapid fire Q and
as I struggle with just accepting the one word. So
(02:34):
if you have more is not my gift, so tell
me more me either. Okay? Favorite holiday? Christmas? How long
does it take to get ready? Twenty minutes? I'm in friends.
That's mom time. Yeah, you know, I think before that
it used to be forty. But now I don't care
what my hair looks like. I was about to say,
but your hair looks so good. I just came from
(02:54):
getting it colored. So this is tomorrow. It will not
look like scale A one to ten. How good to
a driver? You seven? Okay? What about on your motorcycle?
I'm much better. I'm much more alert on my motorcycle.
I talked with my hands, so when I'm in my car,
I am a curb whacker. So if I'm telling a story,
I look at whoever's beside me too much and use
my hands, so I end up kind of doing bumper
(03:16):
cars a little bit. On curbs. Motorcycle, I would be
probably a nine and a half. Okay. Would you rather
watch a sunrise or sunset? Sunset? Yeah? Same dude. What
time do you wake up? Depends depends on if I've
been on the road. I am. I'm a total night owl,
but I don't like sleeping too late because if I'm
(03:36):
missing the day. So I like them both, but I
tend to see more sunsets because I'm more of a
night owl. If you could travel back in time, what
period would you go to that's good? Off the top
of my head, I thought seventies because I really like
disco music. Oh I thought you were going to say
j C. Great Now I feel like an idiot. Yeah,
(03:59):
Jesus since where not? Yeah, I would have I would
have gone first century, early for century. Just kidding. Okay,
I guess you going back to the seventies. What place
do you most want to travel to? I mean, you've
been to so many places, but is there a place
you'd love to go or go back to? You know
what I'd love to go back to is New Zealand.
I fell in love with New Zealand, both North Island
(04:19):
and South Island. South Island guns where they've got all that.
I mean, it's so beautiful and not very populated, and
so I've liked every place I've traveled. Mostly I wouldn't
tell the places I don't like, but New Zealand would
be at the top of my list. What about favorite
food tossed up between Thai text Max and Indian? Okay, yeah, total,
total toss up crown. What about favorite food combo like
(04:44):
two foods just go together? Golly, there's so many. Probably hot, hot,
hot popcorn with a little bit of butter and um
eminements of the movies popcorn eminems. I love it? Cake
or pie? M pie? Really, I'm not a real cake girl.
I don't know why, but cake is never because I
(05:04):
love carbs. Do you think i'd love it? But I'm
actually more of a dark chocolate so I can kind
of cake and pie. Neither one of them float my
boat that much. But give me something gooey and chocolate
and I'm all in. Okay, what does a person need
to be happy? Love? Is double dipping at a party
ever acceptable? Gosh, no would be the appropriate answer. But
(05:27):
I'm not a real stickler for rules. So if somebody
doesn't mean to you, it's like but you and Missy,
I'm sure totally it is a total double totally different,
totally fine. So how did you become such an amazing
storyteller or what do you think? Is it from your childhood,
your personality, like, where did you get that gift? I
(05:48):
didn't have a childhood looked idealic from the outside. Inside
there's a lot of hard stuff and a lot of chaos,
and I think I became a storyteller to hide. You know,
if I can tell a story or people laugh, then
I can kind of shift attention away from what was
really going on in my heart or inside my home.
I think initially it was survival, and then I fell
(06:09):
in love with story because everybody connects to a story.
Everybody's got a story. They might not be a wind
bag like me, but they've got a story, and that's
where we connect with each other. That's actually what changed
my understanding of scripture is when you realize it's not
a textbook or or a rule book or some benign
collection of morality tales, but it's actually a love story
(06:29):
and it's purest form. So stories connect people. You know,
you hear somebody tell a story and you go, oh,
me too, or oh, I wonder what that would be like.
If you can hear a story, you go oh, oh,
I I can identify with that. You know, it makes
me think about a lot of comedians. You hear about
two and you're funny as well. You're a good storyteller,
(06:50):
but you're also hilarious. So when you mentioned survival, and
I think so many comedians their humor comes from a
place of survival. Yeah, my dad I made. He did
the very best he could, but he left us when
I was really little, and there was some some yucky
stuff that happened with some other men between my mom,
my parents divorced, and my mom remarrying. And I think
(07:13):
that story initially was was, you know, hiding because I
was just I didn't feel good enough. I thought, you know,
if I was only sweeter, prettier, maybe Dad wouldn't have
walked away. My mom says, I came out of the
womb talking, so definitely always been a talker, but it
it just became the language of my life. What about
some people are had the gift of gab, they say,
(07:36):
and they can talk, but speaking in front of crowds
is a totally different thing than just talking. So when
did you know that, like, oh, hey, I can do this,
Like I want to speak in front of people. So
the speaking and then writing books and becoming an author
and being a theologian, like how did that all come together?
Which was first, and then yeah, you know, I never
(07:58):
had You're probably much smarter than me. I never had
the five or ten year plan. I was just truly
surviving at some level. And then I was a huge
people pleaser for years and years and years. Man, when
you get out of that cage, it's it's incredible. You
just were open to things that were coming your way,
or were you like, oh, hey, I think I can
do this. I'm gonna go after I think so much
(08:20):
of it was just God's mercy because the trajectory of
my life was I had my undergrad was a double
major in marketing and broadcast journalism, and so I thought
I was going to do television, which was a very
elevated goal because I was at this little tiny cow college.
Oh yeah, Oh I wanted to be Barbara Watchers. So
(08:42):
we had a we had a little station at Troy
University in Alabama, you know, relatively small school, but great
journalism department, and they actually had you know, we did
a practicum by being on the air, and probably thirty
people in Alabama watched. But I just loved it. I
thought this is awesome. Well then when I was a
(09:04):
senior in college, is way t m I. But I
went to visit a friend who was in broadcasternalism, and
I saw some things that I did. I just was
kind of shocked by because she had to tell some
stories she didn't agree with to please some advertisers. And
I thought, oh gosh, I'm trying not to lie now.
I'm not saying all broadcasternalisms are journalist or people are
(09:25):
interested in that are disingenuous, but I just saw kind
of the ugly side, the ugly underbelly of the news,
and I thought, I, I can't do this, and I
don't want to out people, and I don't want to
destroy people's lives, and bad news so often sells, at
least back then, and I thought, Okay, I'll go to
hospital marketing. And I took a job in sales and marketing.
(09:46):
And I had been involved when I was a kid
and Fellowship of Christian Athletes, and I took this job.
I moved to Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and then to Birmingham and
this and I was not I didn't go to Alabama
kind of a fake roll tighter, but I do love
the Crimson. Anyway, he saw my mom in a grocery
(10:06):
store and he was like Lisa is supposed to be
in some type of vocational ministry. She's a storyteller, she
loves people, she loves Jesus. She needs to be doing this.
So my mom commits me to an interview with this
FCA organization. I was like, oh, snap, you know, I
do not want to be in some kind of ministry.
I don't want to wear turtlenecks and be poor. But
(10:27):
I was afraid if I didn't at least take the interview,
you know that like God would give me hives. That
was my great theology back then, and so I tried
to was it here in Nashville, Tennessee. That's what brought
me to Nashville. I tried to throw the interview because
I did not want I had this great job where
so I thought. I lived with two old, shorty sisters
in Birmingham, and they hired me because they thought I
(10:48):
seemed mature. I was totally faking it, and I thought,
oh gosh, I've got to take this job because this
is like a God job, and if I don't take it,
I'm gonna be in trouble. And I moved up to
Nashville during ice storm. I mean it was just an
epic fail. But within two or three days, I got
to be with all these kids, you know, Mcgavick High School,
all these different places, and just encourage these kids who,
(11:12):
like me, thought they weren't worth much. You know, we're
checking and Jivan to try to appear presentable, and I
just I just fell in love with telling stories to people.
And so that's what brought me to Nashville. And then
it's kind of one thing led to the other. So
I didn't have these aspirations if this is what I
want to do, and I'm kind of embarrassed to say that.
I think shame kept me from dreaming really big. And
(11:35):
then God, being such a good God, just kept redeeming things.
And then I'd go, oh wow. I never thought i'd
write a book. A friend of mine had an incredible story.
She was paralyzing in a car accident. The way God
redeemed her story. Somebody asked me if I wanted to
write a book because they had seen me tell a
story in a big stage, and I said, yeah, but
I want to. I don't want to write my book.
(11:56):
I can tell you a story everybody would love to read.
So the first book I wrote was actually my friends autobiography,
and then again that just kind of one thing led
to the to another, and and of course writing books.
I'm not a very good author, but it's telling a story.
It's just you know, using using an iPad and study
of voice. So I feel like my life has been
(12:18):
just a trajectory of grace, and now I have plans
and so I have a cleaner for future moving forward.
I know what kind of mom I want to be.
It's being a missy and being a mom and the
(12:40):
whole adoption process. I'm often asked like, how did you
know you were ready for adoption? So I'll just ask
you that exact question. Because of the all the shame
credit for my past, I didn't think I would be
a very good mom. I actually had a woman in
church years ago. I heard somebody, Suzanne Mayernick, speak about
a option and I thought, oh, maybe, just maybe. I
(13:02):
was forty years old and a woman from church told
me that. She said, I know you're praying about adoption,
and I just want to be real direct with you
and tell you that I think you've sabotaged that shot
because you've shared with our small group you were sexual
Melissa when you're younger, and so she said, I know
you've been a Christian counciling, but just in case you
weren't fixed, you might unwillingly transfer the trauma you experience
(13:24):
as a kid onto a child of your own. So
she said, I don't think you should adopt. I think
if you want to nurture something, you should go to
the Nashville Humane Society and adopt a dog, because you're
really good with pets. And you know, Amy, I should
have recognized this woman is just a cricket little tree.
You know, something happened in her back story that just
bent her understanding and she is just not bearing good fruit.
(13:49):
But what she said connected with my deepest fear and
kind of my shame that I wouldn't be a good mom.
And so it was until I was forty seven that
I started the option process. I lost to babies before
God nip me into Missy's story, And it was during
the adoption process in my late forties that I was reminded.
(14:11):
When I was seventeen years old, my best friend and
I started an fcch after at our school, Felter because athletes,
because we wanted to meet football players are our motives
were not perfectly pure. But during that time period, both
of us, you know, we would teach with our little
crew of high school kids. I didn't know what we
were doing, but I had a lot of passion. And
(14:31):
we had studied the theme of adoption in the Bible,
because it's all throughout the Bible how God adopts us,
sweeze us into his family. And we had made a
pact when I was a senior in high school in
Central Florida that we would adopt when we got older.
And I don't think I had really forgotten it. I
think emotionally I couldn't deal with it, so I just
(14:51):
kind of pushed it in a closet. She went on
to get married, struggled in fertility, and she adopted, and
it was in my late forties and we're still dear
for into this day. She lives in Florida still. But
she called and she said, Lea, sits taken thirty years,
but but what you vowed is coming true. And I
was like, oh, I kind of forgot, and so I
(15:12):
feel like I feel like I just needed to cook
a lot longer than most people. You know, I've made
a million mistakes as a mother to say when were
you prepared to adopt? I was just prepared to make
the mistakes and love a kid. I told my deption agent.
I said, I really think best case scenario is a
child gets a momy and a dad. But I found
(15:33):
out about all the millions of kids you know who
don't survive infancy because of things like clean water, And
I said, if you know of a child who doesn't
have a good shot at a mom and a dad,
he doesn't have anybody else to take him, you know,
I'd love to be considered for that story. And I
still can't believe it. I may I've had her home
(15:54):
in April will be eight years and I look at
this kid and just think all of our kids our miracles.
But I still can't quite believe he let me be
your second mom after a first moment died. It has
been I mean, other than my relationship with God, being
a mom is the greatest gift, kind of a kind
of a surprise gift. I wouldn't have dreamed it for myself. Well,
(16:17):
and then Missy is from Haiti, and so how did
you land on adopting from Haiti? I lost an adoption
at the eleventh hour. It's too long a story until
long windedness is definitely my gift. You know. I had
COVID and they told me I'd never be able to
speak again because it had so as hospitalized and it
(16:37):
just deviserted my lungs. And my pomonologist said, you'll never
be able to hold more than a minute or two
of residual air in your lungs. And I think I'm
sure some people prayed for that to shut me up.
But just so you know, for the opposite grace of God,
I can obviously talk up a blue street. Still, I
had been matched with a young woman who had gotten pregnant.
(17:00):
She was a hardcore crack addict and a prostitute domestically
domestically very very precarious that they didn't think the baby
would survive. She was little mama was had been horrifically
abused herself, and so that was one of those just
adoption journeys. There's just lots and lots and lots of downs.
But at the very end of that journey, looked like
(17:22):
she was four days before being induced. And I'm not
legally allowed to share what happened, but I lost the
baby four days before I was bringing her home, and
you know, had named her. I was the only one
legally allowed to bring up. And it was one of
those just heart flattening losses. It was just two weeks
after I lost that baby that a friend who had
just been to Haiti and not having anything to do
(17:43):
with adoption, she had been there to help these people
who doing a feeding program for the kids build a
commercial kitchen. But while she was there, one of the
young moms in the village died of AIDS and didn't
know she had AIDS, and she left behind a two
year old who was very very, very very sick, and
that was Missy and there was nobody to take her.
And so my friend from Nashville just happened to be
(18:05):
there the week that Missy's mom, Marie passed away, and
the doctors told them that Missy would would not make it,
that she would die if somebody, really, anybody from a
first world country needed to come and step into the
process because there's no family to take care of her.
So this friend knew I was grieving this adoption loss,
and she said, I know, you know, you probably don't
(18:27):
have any bandwidth to make this decision, but I feel
like God told me you're supposed to be in this story,
so would you pray about it? And I said nope.
I said, I've been praying about this for thirty years.
Signed me up. And then I got off the phone
and said a word that's not the Bible. I guess
I thought, what if I just committed to you. I
don't know how to do this. You know how it is.
I mean, you were much more faithful and you waited.
(18:50):
I was scared, you know, I just did the next
right thing. And then you know, well, I think that
we were We were also involved in amestic adoption before
we went international, and of course we didn't know at
the time that it was going to take five years.
We'd heard maybe two to three maybe, but we obviously
(19:12):
have that that Haiti connection. And even with My Life
Speaks and Nepoli and Mike Wilson, he's come on the
podcast lot before, and we're big cheerleaders of you've done
what they're doing well our listeners like through SPA and
them wanting to buy things if we've made it to
(19:32):
try to like have to have an item, like I
love stuff and I have my yeah, like all four
or four things items which was under a spuaw and
just a way for hopefully listeners to have a piece
of something and like either wear it or use the
gratitude journal or carry the tote and be hopefully for
some that's a reminder of like oh yeah, this supported
(19:55):
and to say a quick prayer and just feel from
people about it. It's just fabulous. Yeah, and a conversation starter.
So we're just, like I said, big fans of that
when you lost a domestic adoption. And I'm not saying
in my life that was God's will. I'm not sure
had I not been so heartbreak and I would have
been brave enough to say yes to Missy. So in retrospect,
(20:19):
I look back and I go, he was breaking my
heart to actually build my heart up to prepare me
to have a home for Missy. You know, you get
a little bit older and you look back and you go, oh,
oh yeah, I mean I think it just sometimes takes
time to then be able to reflect me like, oh
that was the play that was at hand. We were
(20:39):
hopeful to get pregnant, and I remember praying like every
time I would take a pregnancy test, like please be positive,
and just that was my prayer. I wanted a baby
so badly, and my sister she got pregnant with four kids.
It's like, I don't understand. My friends were all getting pregnant,
(20:59):
there was baby showers all the time. I'm just like,
Polly's already And I was already at a disadvantage because
I think my husband was gone in Afghanistan half the year,
but we were still trying, and fertility doctors couldn't give
us a reason why. So it was very confusing and
can be really shaming because you think, what am I
doing wrong? Yeah, so you once said I'm so grateful
(21:33):
for the opportunities God has given me, but don't forget
he often uses donkeys and rocks, And I was like,
I have to pull that right away. Well, I think,
you know, we live in a culture where I don't
think social media is is a bad thing. I think
it's an inanimate thing, so it can be used for
bad or for good. But we live in that in
(21:57):
a culture where everything is is a grand you know,
there's this aggrandizement of it gets bigger, it gets multiplied.
It's you know, we're using filters and so you kind
of think anybody who gets to tell a story on
a stage or gets to sing a song with a microphone,
or gets a podcast or has a show like yours.
You go, oh, they must have it all together, and
(22:19):
I go, nope. I mean, this is our privilege, and
this is the laying God has given us to run in.
But that doesn't make you any more valuable than somebody
who's quietly doing the work that they're supposed to do.
I don't know. I think if you breathe your own
exhaust long enough, you're gonna get really sick. And so,
you know, you're very gracious to say, well, you've done
(22:40):
this or you've done this, and I'm like, yeah, what
was a posture of my heart along the way. It
doesn't matter if I've published fourteen books and I haven't
lived them. You know, have I loved my neighbor, haven't
been kind, have a impatient with Missy when she's being
a normal twelve year a little girl. And so I
I've asked the Lord as an adult once I got
a little healthier and he had pulled the most toxic
(23:02):
roots of shame out of my heart. I just said,
don't don't ever let me think that you can't do
anything without me. In the same way helped me to
always remember that you think I hung them in And
so if my worth is in my relationship with God,
then I don't care as much about the likes, so
the lack thereof I can just try to do the
(23:24):
best I can with what's in front of me. Well,
I think you're doing just that, and what are your
hopes with back porch theology. I went back to get
a doctorate a few years ago, not because I'm so smart,
but I just wanted to. Frankly, I wanted to be
in school the same time as Missy, you know, because
I'm an I'm fifty eight, misss twelve, So I thought
it would be cool for her to see me as
(23:45):
a lifelong learner. And then I wanted to know the
love of God a little better, and I think he
reveals it through Holy Spirit and through his words. So
I thought it would be good for me to go
back and study. But I realized as I was studying,
so many of my friends as soon as they hear
the word theology, they would just check out. It's like
I might as well be talking about, you know, paint drying.
(24:06):
And I thought there's this gap between understanding that God
actually wants us to know him and all the big
multi syllabic theological terms. The word theology comes from the
root word theists, which refers to God, and log us,
which is conversation or stories. This is conversations about God.
Doesn't have to be in King James language. And I
(24:27):
thought me and to help just the average person who goes.
I don't have time to read all those books or
do all that study. And I just need to know
today that I matter, even though I messed up and
I said bad words in traffic, that God's not looking
at me with a uni brow waiting to smack me
over the head with a fifty pound Bible. But he
actually loves me, and he loves my kids, He loves
(24:48):
what I'm doing. He cares for me. And so I
thought people had asked me to do a podcast a
couple of times. I thought, uh, you know, I do
not need one more thing to do. I've always got
too many irons in the fire. But then you see
the reach and just the regular people who are on
their lip to go or they're in their car, they
would like a little bit of hope, and so they
(25:09):
listen to your show or they listen to music. Some
of them go, I'd like to hear a story. Now,
I'd like I'd like to hear a little a little talking.
And I thought, maybe, just maybe, you know, my mom
and two or three other people will listen to this,
and we we've been taken aback that there's a few
people who go, wow, I really like this. And I
thought we can dive deep. And I always say, you
(25:32):
can be serious about your faith in God, but not
take yourself very seriously. So we have a lot of
fun and we laugh hard, and then we'll dive pretty
deep and stuff. I bring my favorite professors on who
are brainiacts, and but they love people, so they want
to take these really cool concepts about God that can
be a little to understand it first. But then they
(25:55):
put the cookies on the lower shell, so you go, oh,
I get that. So I think anybody who wants to
keep it mysterious wants you to be impressed with them
instead of in love with God. I love the way
you said that I want the cookies on the lower shof.
Some of it is so well to keep the cookie analogy,
but like it smells good, I want a bite, but
then it's like no, if it's too difficult, to get there,
(26:16):
and it doesn't seem attainable. You have to understand Latin
or Greek or Hebrew, or you have to read for
seven years, or you have to you just think I've
got too much to do tomorrow. And it's like, No,
God wants you to know him, and he wants you
to know how much He loves you. I think for
so many years I thought I thought really highly of
the Bible, but I thought really lowly of myself. And
(26:36):
that's terrible theology, because yeah, we're a hot mess, but
God thinks we hanging them in and so to begin
to get that and to begin to get the Bible
is a love story. I just thought it'd be fun
to bring these people who have spent I don't know
forty years in the Book of Isaiah and go, can
you help us understand what you've learned? And they're so
(26:57):
happy to do it. That's awesome. I saw the podcast
description and so I wanted to just read that because
I love it. You're invited to hang out on Lisa
Harper's back porch and enjoy conversations about all things Jesus, theological, anthropology,
biblical orthodoxy, spanks, the merits of text, mex and more.
(27:19):
That's right, that's right. It doesn't have to be so
hyper serious. It's true, but it's wonderful and it's life giving,
and so yeah, I don't like segregating real life from
a real God. I'm like, you mix those together, so
I can totally imagine visas sitting with the sober chips
in case. So well, you're definitely a wonderful example of that.
(27:41):
And if people want to find more, the podcast can
be found just if you go to wherever you listen
to podcasts, back porch theology. But Lisa Harper dot org
has links to everything. Yes, there is evidently another Lisa
Harper who has a much better physique than I do,
and where's less close? And so is that why on Instagram?
(28:03):
Your Lisa D Harper? Okay, so yes, make sure on
Instagram because yeah, we don't get that confused. No, A friend,
it was hilarious, Amy. I was in London getting ready
to speak at this event and a friend of mine,
I think, you know, Chris Kane got a call from
somebody else and she put her hand over the phone
(28:23):
and you know Chris has a strong Aussee accent. She said,
do you have naked pictures with Santa, and I was like, oh,
I have naked pictures with Santa. But because I'm such
a dork on social media, I had used the same name.
And I don't know this so other lovely woman's exact name,
but one of my You know how somebody tags you
on one platform and it's really from the other platform.
(28:45):
So anyway, evidently someone thought I was a Bible teacher
with naked pictures with Santa. That is hilarious. Okay. So
on Instagram it's Lisa D. Harper and so that's where
they can find you there, and I hope that people
will check out Back Porch Theology and if they ever
see that you're speaking at a church in their city
(29:05):
or a conference or wherever you're listening, I highly recommend
that Lacroix and some wild strawberry and then have dark
chocolate in your purse and we will have a blast.
Oh yeah, okay, So I thought we'd wrap with some gratitude,
as I often do with guests, and I would love
to hear four things that you are thankful for, but
(29:26):
specifically an Instagram follow is what I'd like to start with. Yeah,
I'm such a social media just a dork and I
always forget what their handle whatever that is named. But
I love brook Legertwood and it looks like Ligert would
it's allege ARTI Anda thinks w o D fabulous artist.
(29:47):
Uh not country. She's more more worshiped. She'll do half
and half between profound. You just want to listen, and
then she's hilarious, so I'd say, I'd say Brooklynger would. Okay,
what about a book you're thankful for besides the Bible?
I know that sounds like stereotypical, but I love anything
(30:07):
by C. S. Lewis. I love The Blue Pair Keep
by Scott McKnight. I love Wit by Eli Weasel, anything
by INTI Right, he's kind of my my I love
all the old dead guys, but he's one of my
favorite living theologians. I have a total platonic crush on him.
I would tattoo his face on my calf if it
wouldn't be so weird and stalkery. I tend to love,
you know, real contemplative reads. But then I also love
(30:29):
People magazine. That I mean, you can always hear a
theologian here that's like also hey, and yeah, and you
know what celebrity book that only read once. I tend
to not do books or movies twice unless it's like
a theological that I have to go back to for study.
But what book made me laugh out loud was a
million years ago. Do you remember Divine Secrets of the Sisterhood? Oh?
(30:53):
Was that a yes? Okay, I think Sandra. But I
laughed so hard. I went my pants on a plane
reading that book. You know how you're trying to contain
it on a plane, and I was howling. That book
is hilarious. Last one would be The Color of Water
by James McBride. He's one of the I think one
(31:13):
of our best contemporary writers. His father was from Harlem,
his mother was Jewish. When his mother married his father,
her family sat shiven for her because they were so
vehemently opposed to the wedding. And then the dad, once
they got to Harlem, was not let's just say, wasn't
a fan of monogamy. And so he went through a
lot with this Jewish mother growing up in Harlem. By
(31:35):
racial in the sixties, brilliant man goodness the theme of
kindness and repentance in his books. He's written some really
incredible books about underground slave railroad. That are incredible, but
that the color of water. If I had to, if
I had to only have like ten books on my bookshelf,
that would be one of them. I love that we
got a lot. Sorry, I get it. I get a little.
(31:57):
I get a little too excited about books. Hey, I'm
here for it. What about TV shows? Do you even
have Discovery Shark Week? Oh? Yeah, I love it. And then, um,
Ship's Creek made me laugh really really hard, even though
I know it's really really inappropriate. Oh no, it's amazing.
I started watching it with my fourteen year old daughter
show was fifteen, and she thinks it's hilarious. It's so
(32:20):
trashy and so inappropriate, but but it's so well written.
What's your favorite movie of all time? Oh gosh, Amie,
these are too hard. You should have applied me with
sugar before this. Um. I mean, I love really really
funny ones. I go back to the Notebook. I know
that's cheesy, but I don't care. I crap every time.
And I love when he lifts her up in the rain.
(32:40):
And then I kind of like anything money Python because
I think it's various. I kind of like that high
row British humor. Best in Show would be one of
my all time favorites. Waiting for Guffman makes me laugh
really really hard. And then I like some of the
like Sophie's Choice, but I don't want to watch it
again because it was sad. I'll tell you one of
(33:01):
the best movies I've ever seen that that what's her name?
She's such a great actress. She's English, Emma Thompson. She's
at least one one Oscar. Yes, Emma Thompson. She was
in a movie called wit W I T. And it's
the most profound movie on human connection I think I've
ever seen. But you've got to know ahead of times.
(33:23):
She's this brilliant professor, like an English professor on some
real nero subject. But she was like the best in
the world at that and she was totally defined by
her brain but didn't wasn't well loved, had no connections. Well,
she ends up getting cancer, and I don't want to
give away the story, but the whole story is her
realizing the folly of living a life if it's not
(33:45):
full of people and full of love. And there's this
scene in the movie of her in her hospital bed.
You know, nobody comes to visitor because she has no relationships.
Even though she's brilliant, she's so isolated. And then she's
being treated by some of the students who are now
doctors who came through her class. And one of her
things she was so proud of was being a hard grader.
And so you've got these brilliant oncologists and they're like, yeah,
(34:07):
you're the only professor ever had who gave me a
d for some you know, I can't remember. It was
some obscure English poet or something she studied. But this nurse,
there's no she's dying, there's nobody visitor, and this nurse
who's kind of this, you know, kind of real sassy nurse,
ends up just loving on her and she gets in
her hospital bed with her because the only thing she
(34:28):
can take at this point in her chemo is frozen popsicles,
and they share a frozen pet will. They both have
their own frozen popsicle, and just it's so simple, these
two women, one dying there from different ethnicities and they're
just sharing this orange popsicle because the other one because
of her chemo and all the busters from out that's
all she's gonna have and that's the first time she
(34:49):
actually has true connection with another person. And it's I mean,
I bawled my guts out. But I also thought, I
want my life to matter, and the only thing that
really maters is loving people, loving God, so I thought
it will be more about people. Well, I have never
heard of that film, but I just looked at it up.
So it's w I t win and now I'm adding it.
(35:10):
But don't, like, don't watch it if you're sad, have
like three pints of Ben and Jerry's, because it'll it'll
wreck you, but it wrecks you in the best way.
But like sometimes if you're sad, well, for me, if
I need a release, Like if I watch something sad,
it helps me get out. It's almost like it gives
you an excuse to cry. But it's also it's just
(35:30):
profound about kindness and compassion. And she's such a great actress.
And it is a little Tom hankson Castaway because it's
mostly just Her'll get a ton of dialogue, but she
can definitely carry a movie. But yeah, that that movie
was legit. I actually had a seminary professor years ago
who made our class watch that movie, and he said,
it does not matter how much theology you've memorized. If
(35:52):
you don't love people, well, it's just noise. That's powerful
for sure. We'll finish gratitude with a drink, say favorite. Ever,
I love coffee, so I love ice smokea and hot mocha,
and I always get my mooca with um non fat
with whip cream because I feel like they balanced each
other out, and then it's almost quito. But my favorite
refreshing drink is if you get a Lacroix, and it
(36:15):
can be any Lacroix, but it's better, I think if
it's citrusy and you do Lacroix in a cup of
ice with one little packet of wild strawberry crystal light
because it has a little bit caffeine in it, and
then you do a whole lime squeeze the juice of
an entire lime. So it's Lacroix. Wild strawberry crystal light
has a little bit of caffeine and says a little
(36:36):
pick me up, and it's sparkly because the Lacroix, and
then it has the lime in it. It's like my
favorite drink in the history of time. It's not great
in the winter, because it's a little more of a
some spring summer drink, but I drink it pretty much
every day. Okay, well, y'all go find Lisa and especially
check out her new podcast because I think it's especially
if something like that has been is interesting to you,
(36:57):
the whole theology thing, but you want to hear from
someone that is gonna, you know, give you those cookies
on the lower shelf. Like Lisa's our girl. She's got
our back for sure. So thank you Lisa, Thank you
Amy so much.
Okay, casa a little food for you. So life. Oh
it's pretty, but it's pretty beautiful. Thank that's a little
(00:23):
month kicking four Happy Thursday. I am so honored today
to be sitting here with the Lisa harper A. Lisa,
I've admired you for years, so I'm just super pumped
(00:44):
and thank you so much for coming for I'm so tickled.
I feel like I'm gritting so big to be with you.
My cheeks are cramping. Well, I mean, Lisa, she's the
real deal. She has fourteen books published or more is
it fourteen? And some like emotions, all the things ish.
She speaks at churches, conferences, domestically, internationally, like all around
the world. I feel like before COVID, anytime I would
(01:06):
see you on your Instagram, you were literally in an airport,
we were you know where. It was so weird when
I wasn't traveling here, and that especially that first year
of COVID, I was so star crazy to not be traveling.
That we have five acres and I thought I'll just
get a chainsaw and I'll cut down some trees because
I have so much pent up energy. And I accidentally
cut one of our propane lines and almost blew us up.
(01:30):
I thought I'd probably need to be more protective and
get back on the road. Yeah. Yeah, I love being home,
but I love being on the road to definitely always
on the go, and I'm sure some of that is
starting to pick up back up again. You're a mom
to sweet Missy, yet I think might claim to fame
who you adopted from Haiti and I want to get
more into that later. And then you're also a podcaster.
(01:52):
We're going to talk about brand new and did not
have the wisdom that you have back porch theology when
you posted about that idea? Do you right away? And
I was like, you want to come on the podcast.
That's just some of the amazing things that you do.
So first I thought we would start off with a
little rapid fire Q and a like getting to know you.
Maybe if some of my listeners are like, I have
(02:13):
not had a lot of caffeine today, so I'll try
to I'll try to be quick, okay, texting or talking?
Oh talking favorite day of the week Saturday. Why because
Saturday is always represent meeting new people for me and
I'm really relational and there's just something about connecting. Yeah,
and you'll learn about me with rapid fire Q and
as I struggle with just accepting the one word. So
(02:34):
if you have more is not my gift, so tell
me more me either. Okay? Favorite holiday? Christmas? How long
does it take to get ready? Twenty minutes? I'm in friends.
That's mom time. Yeah, you know, I think before that
it used to be forty. But now I don't care
what my hair looks like. I was about to say,
but your hair looks so good. I just came from
(02:54):
getting it colored. So this is tomorrow. It will not
look like scale A one to ten. How good to
a driver? You seven? Okay? What about on your motorcycle?
I'm much better. I'm much more alert on my motorcycle.
I talked with my hands, so when I'm in my car,
I am a curb whacker. So if I'm telling a story,
I look at whoever's beside me too much and use
my hands, so I end up kind of doing bumper
(03:16):
cars a little bit. On curbs. Motorcycle, I would be
probably a nine and a half. Okay. Would you rather
watch a sunrise or sunset? Sunset? Yeah? Same dude. What
time do you wake up? Depends depends on if I've
been on the road. I am. I'm a total night owl,
but I don't like sleeping too late because if I'm
(03:36):
missing the day. So I like them both, but I
tend to see more sunsets because I'm more of a
night owl. If you could travel back in time, what
period would you go to that's good? Off the top
of my head, I thought seventies because I really like
disco music. Oh I thought you were going to say
j C. Great Now I feel like an idiot. Yeah,
(03:59):
Jesus since where not? Yeah, I would have I would
have gone first century, early for century. Just kidding. Okay,
I guess you going back to the seventies. What place
do you most want to travel to? I mean, you've
been to so many places, but is there a place
you'd love to go or go back to? You know
what I'd love to go back to is New Zealand.
I fell in love with New Zealand, both North Island
(04:19):
and South Island. South Island guns where they've got all that.
I mean, it's so beautiful and not very populated, and
so I've liked every place I've traveled. Mostly I wouldn't
tell the places I don't like, but New Zealand would
be at the top of my list. What about favorite
food tossed up between Thai text Max and Indian? Okay, yeah, total,
total toss up crown. What about favorite food combo like
(04:44):
two foods just go together? Golly, there's so many. Probably hot, hot,
hot popcorn with a little bit of butter and um
eminements of the movies popcorn eminems. I love it? Cake
or pie? M pie? Really, I'm not a real cake girl.
I don't know why, but cake is never because I
(05:04):
love carbs. Do you think i'd love it? But I'm
actually more of a dark chocolate so I can kind
of cake and pie. Neither one of them float my
boat that much. But give me something gooey and chocolate
and I'm all in. Okay, what does a person need
to be happy? Love? Is double dipping at a party
ever acceptable? Gosh, no would be the appropriate answer. But
(05:27):
I'm not a real stickler for rules. So if somebody
doesn't mean to you, it's like but you and Missy,
I'm sure totally it is a total double totally different,
totally fine. So how did you become such an amazing
storyteller or what do you think? Is it from your childhood,
your personality, like, where did you get that gift? I
(05:48):
didn't have a childhood looked idealic from the outside. Inside
there's a lot of hard stuff and a lot of chaos,
and I think I became a storyteller to hide. You know,
if I can tell a story or people laugh, then
I can kind of shift attention away from what was
really going on in my heart or inside my home.
I think initially it was survival, and then I fell
(06:09):
in love with story because everybody connects to a story.
Everybody's got a story. They might not be a wind
bag like me, but they've got a story, and that's
where we connect with each other. That's actually what changed
my understanding of scripture is when you realize it's not
a textbook or or a rule book or some benign
collection of morality tales, but it's actually a love story
(06:29):
and it's purest form. So stories connect people. You know,
you hear somebody tell a story and you go, oh,
me too, or oh, I wonder what that would be like.
If you can hear a story, you go oh, oh,
I I can identify with that. You know, it makes
me think about a lot of comedians. You hear about
two and you're funny as well. You're a good storyteller,
(06:50):
but you're also hilarious. So when you mentioned survival, and
I think so many comedians their humor comes from a
place of survival. Yeah, my dad I made. He did
the very best he could, but he left us when
I was really little, and there was some some yucky
stuff that happened with some other men between my mom,
my parents divorced, and my mom remarrying. And I think
(07:13):
that story initially was was, you know, hiding because I
was just I didn't feel good enough. I thought, you know,
if I was only sweeter, prettier, maybe Dad wouldn't have
walked away. My mom says, I came out of the
womb talking, so definitely always been a talker, but it
it just became the language of my life. What about
some people are had the gift of gab, they say,
(07:36):
and they can talk, but speaking in front of crowds
is a totally different thing than just talking. So when
did you know that, like, oh, hey, I can do this,
Like I want to speak in front of people. So
the speaking and then writing books and becoming an author
and being a theologian, like how did that all come together?
Which was first, and then yeah, you know, I never
(07:58):
had You're probably much smarter than me. I never had
the five or ten year plan. I was just truly
surviving at some level. And then I was a huge
people pleaser for years and years and years. Man, when
you get out of that cage, it's it's incredible. You
just were open to things that were coming your way,
or were you like, oh, hey, I think I can
do this. I'm gonna go after I think so much
(08:20):
of it was just God's mercy because the trajectory of
my life was I had my undergrad was a double
major in marketing and broadcast journalism, and so I thought
I was going to do television, which was a very
elevated goal because I was at this little tiny cow college.
Oh yeah, Oh I wanted to be Barbara Watchers. So
(08:42):
we had a we had a little station at Troy
University in Alabama, you know, relatively small school, but great
journalism department, and they actually had you know, we did
a practicum by being on the air, and probably thirty
people in Alabama watched. But I just loved it. I
thought this is awesome. Well then when I was a
(09:04):
senior in college, is way t m I. But I
went to visit a friend who was in broadcasternalism, and
I saw some things that I did. I just was
kind of shocked by because she had to tell some
stories she didn't agree with to please some advertisers. And
I thought, oh gosh, I'm trying not to lie now.
I'm not saying all broadcasternalisms are journalist or people are
(09:25):
interested in that are disingenuous, but I just saw kind
of the ugly side, the ugly underbelly of the news,
and I thought, I, I can't do this, and I
don't want to out people, and I don't want to
destroy people's lives, and bad news so often sells, at
least back then, and I thought, Okay, I'll go to
hospital marketing. And I took a job in sales and marketing.
(09:46):
And I had been involved when I was a kid
and Fellowship of Christian Athletes, and I took this job.
I moved to Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and then to Birmingham and
this and I was not I didn't go to Alabama
kind of a fake roll tighter, but I do love
the Crimson. Anyway, he saw my mom in a grocery
(10:06):
store and he was like Lisa is supposed to be
in some type of vocational ministry. She's a storyteller, she
loves people, she loves Jesus. She needs to be doing this.
So my mom commits me to an interview with this
FCA organization. I was like, oh, snap, you know, I
do not want to be in some kind of ministry.
I don't want to wear turtlenecks and be poor. But
(10:27):
I was afraid if I didn't at least take the interview,
you know that like God would give me hives. That
was my great theology back then, and so I tried
to was it here in Nashville, Tennessee. That's what brought
me to Nashville. I tried to throw the interview because
I did not want I had this great job where
so I thought. I lived with two old, shorty sisters
in Birmingham, and they hired me because they thought I
(10:48):
seemed mature. I was totally faking it, and I thought,
oh gosh, I've got to take this job because this
is like a God job, and if I don't take it,
I'm gonna be in trouble. And I moved up to
Nashville during ice storm. I mean it was just an
epic fail. But within two or three days, I got
to be with all these kids, you know, Mcgavick High School,
all these different places, and just encourage these kids who,
(11:12):
like me, thought they weren't worth much. You know, we're
checking and Jivan to try to appear presentable, and I
just I just fell in love with telling stories to people.
And so that's what brought me to Nashville. And then
it's kind of one thing led to the other. So
I didn't have these aspirations if this is what I
want to do, and I'm kind of embarrassed to say that.
I think shame kept me from dreaming really big. And
(11:35):
then God, being such a good God, just kept redeeming things.
And then I'd go, oh wow. I never thought i'd
write a book. A friend of mine had an incredible story.
She was paralyzing in a car accident. The way God
redeemed her story. Somebody asked me if I wanted to
write a book because they had seen me tell a
story in a big stage, and I said, yeah, but
I want to. I don't want to write my book.
(11:56):
I can tell you a story everybody would love to read.
So the first book I wrote was actually my friends autobiography,
and then again that just kind of one thing led
to the to another, and and of course writing books.
I'm not a very good author, but it's telling a story.
It's just you know, using using an iPad and study
of voice. So I feel like my life has been
(12:18):
just a trajectory of grace, and now I have plans
and so I have a cleaner for future moving forward.
I know what kind of mom I want to be.
It's being a missy and being a mom and the
(12:40):
whole adoption process. I'm often asked like, how did you
know you were ready for adoption? So I'll just ask
you that exact question. Because of the all the shame
credit for my past, I didn't think I would be
a very good mom. I actually had a woman in
church years ago. I heard somebody, Suzanne Mayernick, speak about
a option and I thought, oh, maybe, just maybe. I
(13:02):
was forty years old and a woman from church told
me that. She said, I know you're praying about adoption,
and I just want to be real direct with you
and tell you that I think you've sabotaged that shot
because you've shared with our small group you were sexual
Melissa when you're younger, and so she said, I know
you've been a Christian counciling, but just in case you
weren't fixed, you might unwillingly transfer the trauma you experience
(13:24):
as a kid onto a child of your own. So
she said, I don't think you should adopt. I think
if you want to nurture something, you should go to
the Nashville Humane Society and adopt a dog, because you're
really good with pets. And you know, Amy, I should
have recognized this woman is just a cricket little tree.
You know, something happened in her back story that just
bent her understanding and she is just not bearing good fruit.
(13:49):
But what she said connected with my deepest fear and
kind of my shame that I wouldn't be a good mom.
And so it was until I was forty seven that
I started the option process. I lost to babies before
God nip me into Missy's story, And it was during
the adoption process in my late forties that I was reminded.
(14:11):
When I was seventeen years old, my best friend and
I started an fcch after at our school, Felter because athletes,
because we wanted to meet football players are our motives
were not perfectly pure. But during that time period, both
of us, you know, we would teach with our little
crew of high school kids. I didn't know what we
were doing, but I had a lot of passion. And
(14:31):
we had studied the theme of adoption in the Bible,
because it's all throughout the Bible how God adopts us,
sweeze us into his family. And we had made a
pact when I was a senior in high school in
Central Florida that we would adopt when we got older.
And I don't think I had really forgotten it. I
think emotionally I couldn't deal with it, so I just
(14:51):
kind of pushed it in a closet. She went on
to get married, struggled in fertility, and she adopted, and
it was in my late forties and we're still dear
for into this day. She lives in Florida still. But
she called and she said, Lea, sits taken thirty years,
but but what you vowed is coming true. And I
was like, oh, I kind of forgot, and so I
(15:12):
feel like I feel like I just needed to cook
a lot longer than most people. You know, I've made
a million mistakes as a mother to say when were
you prepared to adopt? I was just prepared to make
the mistakes and love a kid. I told my deption agent.
I said, I really think best case scenario is a
child gets a momy and a dad. But I found
(15:33):
out about all the millions of kids you know who
don't survive infancy because of things like clean water, And
I said, if you know of a child who doesn't
have a good shot at a mom and a dad,
he doesn't have anybody else to take him, you know,
I'd love to be considered for that story. And I
still can't believe it. I may I've had her home
(15:54):
in April will be eight years and I look at
this kid and just think all of our kids our miracles.
But I still can't quite believe he let me be
your second mom after a first moment died. It has
been I mean, other than my relationship with God, being
a mom is the greatest gift, kind of a kind
of a surprise gift. I wouldn't have dreamed it for myself. Well,
(16:17):
and then Missy is from Haiti, and so how did
you land on adopting from Haiti? I lost an adoption
at the eleventh hour. It's too long a story until
long windedness is definitely my gift. You know. I had
COVID and they told me I'd never be able to
speak again because it had so as hospitalized and it
(16:37):
just deviserted my lungs. And my pomonologist said, you'll never
be able to hold more than a minute or two
of residual air in your lungs. And I think I'm
sure some people prayed for that to shut me up.
But just so you know, for the opposite grace of God,
I can obviously talk up a blue street. Still, I
had been matched with a young woman who had gotten pregnant.
(17:00):
She was a hardcore crack addict and a prostitute domestically
domestically very very precarious that they didn't think the baby
would survive. She was little mama was had been horrifically
abused herself, and so that was one of those just
adoption journeys. There's just lots and lots and lots of downs.
But at the very end of that journey, looked like
(17:22):
she was four days before being induced. And I'm not
legally allowed to share what happened, but I lost the
baby four days before I was bringing her home, and
you know, had named her. I was the only one
legally allowed to bring up. And it was one of
those just heart flattening losses. It was just two weeks
after I lost that baby that a friend who had
just been to Haiti and not having anything to do
(17:43):
with adoption, she had been there to help these people
who doing a feeding program for the kids build a
commercial kitchen. But while she was there, one of the
young moms in the village died of AIDS and didn't
know she had AIDS, and she left behind a two
year old who was very very, very very sick, and
that was Missy and there was nobody to take her.
And so my friend from Nashville just happened to be
(18:05):
there the week that Missy's mom, Marie passed away, and
the doctors told them that Missy would would not make it,
that she would die if somebody, really, anybody from a
first world country needed to come and step into the
process because there's no family to take care of her.
So this friend knew I was grieving this adoption loss,
and she said, I know, you know, you probably don't
(18:27):
have any bandwidth to make this decision, but I feel
like God told me you're supposed to be in this story,
so would you pray about it? And I said nope.
I said, I've been praying about this for thirty years.
Signed me up. And then I got off the phone
and said a word that's not the Bible. I guess
I thought, what if I just committed to you. I
don't know how to do this. You know how it is.
I mean, you were much more faithful and you waited.
(18:50):
I was scared, you know, I just did the next
right thing. And then you know, well, I think that
we were We were also involved in amestic adoption before
we went international, and of course we didn't know at
the time that it was going to take five years.
We'd heard maybe two to three maybe, but we obviously
(19:12):
have that that Haiti connection. And even with My Life
Speaks and Nepoli and Mike Wilson, he's come on the
podcast lot before, and we're big cheerleaders of you've done
what they're doing well our listeners like through SPA and
them wanting to buy things if we've made it to
(19:32):
try to like have to have an item, like I
love stuff and I have my yeah, like all four
or four things items which was under a spuaw and
just a way for hopefully listeners to have a piece
of something and like either wear it or use the
gratitude journal or carry the tote and be hopefully for
some that's a reminder of like oh yeah, this supported
(19:55):
and to say a quick prayer and just feel from
people about it. It's just fabulous. Yeah, and a conversation starter.
So we're just, like I said, big fans of that
when you lost a domestic adoption. And I'm not saying
in my life that was God's will. I'm not sure
had I not been so heartbreak and I would have
been brave enough to say yes to Missy. So in retrospect,
(20:19):
I look back and I go, he was breaking my
heart to actually build my heart up to prepare me
to have a home for Missy. You know, you get
a little bit older and you look back and you go, oh,
oh yeah, I mean I think it just sometimes takes
time to then be able to reflect me like, oh
that was the play that was at hand. We were
(20:39):
hopeful to get pregnant, and I remember praying like every
time I would take a pregnancy test, like please be positive,
and just that was my prayer. I wanted a baby
so badly, and my sister she got pregnant with four kids.
It's like, I don't understand. My friends were all getting pregnant,
(20:59):
there was baby showers all the time. I'm just like,
Polly's already And I was already at a disadvantage because
I think my husband was gone in Afghanistan half the year,
but we were still trying, and fertility doctors couldn't give
us a reason why. So it was very confusing and
can be really shaming because you think, what am I
doing wrong? Yeah, so you once said I'm so grateful
(21:33):
for the opportunities God has given me, but don't forget
he often uses donkeys and rocks, And I was like,
I have to pull that right away. Well, I think,
you know, we live in a culture where I don't
think social media is is a bad thing. I think
it's an inanimate thing, so it can be used for
bad or for good. But we live in that in
(21:57):
a culture where everything is is a grand you know,
there's this aggrandizement of it gets bigger, it gets multiplied.
It's you know, we're using filters and so you kind
of think anybody who gets to tell a story on
a stage or gets to sing a song with a microphone,
or gets a podcast or has a show like yours.
You go, oh, they must have it all together, and
(22:19):
I go, nope. I mean, this is our privilege, and
this is the laying God has given us to run in.
But that doesn't make you any more valuable than somebody
who's quietly doing the work that they're supposed to do.
I don't know. I think if you breathe your own
exhaust long enough, you're gonna get really sick. And so,
you know, you're very gracious to say, well, you've done
(22:40):
this or you've done this, and I'm like, yeah, what
was a posture of my heart along the way. It
doesn't matter if I've published fourteen books and I haven't
lived them. You know, have I loved my neighbor, haven't
been kind, have a impatient with Missy when she's being
a normal twelve year a little girl. And so I
I've asked the Lord as an adult once I got
a little healthier and he had pulled the most toxic
(23:02):
roots of shame out of my heart. I just said,
don't don't ever let me think that you can't do
anything without me. In the same way helped me to
always remember that you think I hung them in And
so if my worth is in my relationship with God,
then I don't care as much about the likes, so
the lack thereof I can just try to do the
(23:24):
best I can with what's in front of me. Well,
I think you're doing just that, and what are your
hopes with back porch theology. I went back to get
a doctorate a few years ago, not because I'm so smart,
but I just wanted to. Frankly, I wanted to be
in school the same time as Missy, you know, because
I'm an I'm fifty eight, misss twelve, So I thought
it would be cool for her to see me as
(23:45):
a lifelong learner. And then I wanted to know the
love of God a little better, and I think he
reveals it through Holy Spirit and through his words. So
I thought it would be good for me to go
back and study. But I realized as I was studying,
so many of my friends as soon as they hear
the word theology, they would just check out. It's like
I might as well be talking about, you know, paint drying.
(24:06):
And I thought there's this gap between understanding that God
actually wants us to know him and all the big
multi syllabic theological terms. The word theology comes from the
root word theists, which refers to God, and log us,
which is conversation or stories. This is conversations about God.
Doesn't have to be in King James language. And I
(24:27):
thought me and to help just the average person who goes.
I don't have time to read all those books or
do all that study. And I just need to know
today that I matter, even though I messed up and
I said bad words in traffic, that God's not looking
at me with a uni brow waiting to smack me
over the head with a fifty pound Bible. But he
actually loves me, and he loves my kids, He loves
(24:48):
what I'm doing. He cares for me. And so I
thought people had asked me to do a podcast a
couple of times. I thought, uh, you know, I do
not need one more thing to do. I've always got
too many irons in the fire. But then you see
the reach and just the regular people who are on
their lip to go or they're in their car, they
would like a little bit of hope, and so they
(25:09):
listen to your show or they listen to music. Some
of them go, I'd like to hear a story. Now,
I'd like I'd like to hear a little a little talking.
And I thought, maybe, just maybe, you know, my mom
and two or three other people will listen to this,
and we we've been taken aback that there's a few
people who go, wow, I really like this. And I
thought we can dive deep. And I always say, you
(25:32):
can be serious about your faith in God, but not
take yourself very seriously. So we have a lot of
fun and we laugh hard, and then we'll dive pretty
deep and stuff. I bring my favorite professors on who
are brainiacts, and but they love people, so they want
to take these really cool concepts about God that can
be a little to understand it first. But then they
(25:55):
put the cookies on the lower shell, so you go, oh,
I get that. So I think anybody who wants to
keep it mysterious wants you to be impressed with them
instead of in love with God. I love the way
you said that I want the cookies on the lower shof.
Some of it is so well to keep the cookie analogy,
but like it smells good, I want a bite, but
then it's like no, if it's too difficult, to get there,
(26:16):
and it doesn't seem attainable. You have to understand Latin
or Greek or Hebrew, or you have to read for
seven years, or you have to you just think I've
got too much to do tomorrow. And it's like, No,
God wants you to know him, and he wants you
to know how much He loves you. I think for
so many years I thought I thought really highly of
the Bible, but I thought really lowly of myself. And
(26:36):
that's terrible theology, because yeah, we're a hot mess, but
God thinks we hanging them in and so to begin
to get that and to begin to get the Bible
is a love story. I just thought it'd be fun
to bring these people who have spent I don't know
forty years in the Book of Isaiah and go, can
you help us understand what you've learned? And they're so
(26:57):
happy to do it. That's awesome. I saw the podcast
description and so I wanted to just read that because
I love it. You're invited to hang out on Lisa
Harper's back porch and enjoy conversations about all things Jesus, theological, anthropology,
biblical orthodoxy, spanks, the merits of text, mex and more.
(27:19):
That's right, that's right. It doesn't have to be so
hyper serious. It's true, but it's wonderful and it's life giving,
and so yeah, I don't like segregating real life from
a real God. I'm like, you mix those together, so
I can totally imagine visas sitting with the sober chips
in case. So well, you're definitely a wonderful example of that.
(27:41):
And if people want to find more, the podcast can
be found just if you go to wherever you listen
to podcasts, back porch theology. But Lisa Harper dot org
has links to everything. Yes, there is evidently another Lisa
Harper who has a much better physique than I do,
and where's less close? And so is that why on Instagram?
(28:03):
Your Lisa D Harper? Okay, so yes, make sure on
Instagram because yeah, we don't get that confused. No, A friend,
it was hilarious, Amy. I was in London getting ready
to speak at this event and a friend of mine,
I think, you know, Chris Kane got a call from
somebody else and she put her hand over the phone
(28:23):
and you know Chris has a strong Aussee accent. She said,
do you have naked pictures with Santa, and I was like, oh,
I have naked pictures with Santa. But because I'm such
a dork on social media, I had used the same name.
And I don't know this so other lovely woman's exact name,
but one of my You know how somebody tags you
on one platform and it's really from the other platform.
(28:45):
So anyway, evidently someone thought I was a Bible teacher
with naked pictures with Santa. That is hilarious. Okay. So
on Instagram it's Lisa D. Harper and so that's where
they can find you there, and I hope that people
will check out Back Porch Theology and if they ever
see that you're speaking at a church in their city
(29:05):
or a conference or wherever you're listening, I highly recommend
that Lacroix and some wild strawberry and then have dark
chocolate in your purse and we will have a blast.
Oh yeah, okay, So I thought we'd wrap with some gratitude,
as I often do with guests, and I would love
to hear four things that you are thankful for, but
(29:26):
specifically an Instagram follow is what I'd like to start with. Yeah,
I'm such a social media just a dork and I
always forget what their handle whatever that is named. But
I love brook Legertwood and it looks like Ligert would
it's allege ARTI Anda thinks w o D fabulous artist.
(29:47):
Uh not country. She's more more worshiped. She'll do half
and half between profound. You just want to listen, and
then she's hilarious, so I'd say, I'd say Brooklynger would. Okay,
what about a book you're thankful for besides the Bible?
I know that sounds like stereotypical, but I love anything
(30:07):
by C. S. Lewis. I love The Blue Pair Keep
by Scott McKnight. I love Wit by Eli Weasel, anything
by INTI Right, he's kind of my my I love
all the old dead guys, but he's one of my
favorite living theologians. I have a total platonic crush on him.
I would tattoo his face on my calf if it
wouldn't be so weird and stalkery. I tend to love,
you know, real contemplative reads. But then I also love
(30:29):
People magazine. That I mean, you can always hear a
theologian here that's like also hey, and yeah, and you
know what celebrity book that only read once. I tend
to not do books or movies twice unless it's like
a theological that I have to go back to for study.
But what book made me laugh out loud was a
million years ago. Do you remember Divine Secrets of the Sisterhood? Oh?
(30:53):
Was that a yes? Okay, I think Sandra. But I
laughed so hard. I went my pants on a plane
reading that book. You know how you're trying to contain
it on a plane, and I was howling. That book
is hilarious. Last one would be The Color of Water
by James McBride. He's one of the I think one
(31:13):
of our best contemporary writers. His father was from Harlem,
his mother was Jewish. When his mother married his father,
her family sat shiven for her because they were so
vehemently opposed to the wedding. And then the dad, once
they got to Harlem, was not let's just say, wasn't
a fan of monogamy. And so he went through a
lot with this Jewish mother growing up in Harlem. By
(31:35):
racial in the sixties, brilliant man goodness the theme of
kindness and repentance in his books. He's written some really
incredible books about underground slave railroad. That are incredible, but
that the color of water. If I had to, if
I had to only have like ten books on my bookshelf,
that would be one of them. I love that we
got a lot. Sorry, I get it. I get a little.
(31:57):
I get a little too excited about books. Hey, I'm
here for it. What about TV shows? Do you even
have Discovery Shark Week? Oh? Yeah, I love it. And then, um,
Ship's Creek made me laugh really really hard, even though
I know it's really really inappropriate. Oh no, it's amazing.
I started watching it with my fourteen year old daughter
show was fifteen, and she thinks it's hilarious. It's so
(32:20):
trashy and so inappropriate, but but it's so well written.
What's your favorite movie of all time? Oh gosh, Amie,
these are too hard. You should have applied me with
sugar before this. Um. I mean, I love really really
funny ones. I go back to the Notebook. I know
that's cheesy, but I don't care. I crap every time.
And I love when he lifts her up in the rain.
(32:40):
And then I kind of like anything money Python because
I think it's various. I kind of like that high
row British humor. Best in Show would be one of
my all time favorites. Waiting for Guffman makes me laugh
really really hard. And then I like some of the
like Sophie's Choice, but I don't want to watch it
again because it was sad. I'll tell you one of
(33:01):
the best movies I've ever seen that that what's her name?
She's such a great actress. She's English, Emma Thompson. She's
at least one one Oscar. Yes, Emma Thompson. She was
in a movie called wit W I T. And it's
the most profound movie on human connection I think I've
ever seen. But you've got to know ahead of times.
(33:23):
She's this brilliant professor, like an English professor on some
real nero subject. But she was like the best in
the world at that and she was totally defined by
her brain but didn't wasn't well loved, had no connections. Well,
she ends up getting cancer, and I don't want to
give away the story, but the whole story is her
realizing the folly of living a life if it's not
(33:45):
full of people and full of love. And there's this
scene in the movie of her in her hospital bed.
You know, nobody comes to visitor because she has no relationships.
Even though she's brilliant, she's so isolated. And then she's
being treated by some of the students who are now
doctors who came through her class. And one of her
things she was so proud of was being a hard grader.
And so you've got these brilliant oncologists and they're like, yeah,
(34:07):
you're the only professor ever had who gave me a
d for some you know, I can't remember. It was
some obscure English poet or something she studied. But this nurse,
there's no she's dying, there's nobody visitor, and this nurse
who's kind of this, you know, kind of real sassy nurse,
ends up just loving on her and she gets in
her hospital bed with her because the only thing she
(34:28):
can take at this point in her chemo is frozen popsicles,
and they share a frozen pet will. They both have
their own frozen popsicle, and just it's so simple, these
two women, one dying there from different ethnicities and they're
just sharing this orange popsicle because the other one because
of her chemo and all the busters from out that's
all she's gonna have and that's the first time she
(34:49):
actually has true connection with another person. And it's I mean,
I bawled my guts out. But I also thought, I
want my life to matter, and the only thing that
really maters is loving people, loving God, so I thought
it will be more about people. Well, I have never
heard of that film, but I just looked at it up.
So it's w I t win and now I'm adding it.
(35:10):
But don't, like, don't watch it if you're sad, have
like three pints of Ben and Jerry's, because it'll it'll
wreck you, but it wrecks you in the best way.
But like sometimes if you're sad, well, for me, if
I need a release, Like if I watch something sad,
it helps me get out. It's almost like it gives
you an excuse to cry. But it's also it's just
(35:30):
profound about kindness and compassion. And she's such a great actress.
And it is a little Tom hankson Castaway because it's
mostly just Her'll get a ton of dialogue, but she
can definitely carry a movie. But yeah, that that movie
was legit. I actually had a seminary professor years ago
who made our class watch that movie, and he said,
it does not matter how much theology you've memorized. If
(35:52):
you don't love people, well, it's just noise. That's powerful
for sure. We'll finish gratitude with a drink, say favorite. Ever,
I love coffee, so I love ice smokea and hot mocha,
and I always get my mooca with um non fat
with whip cream because I feel like they balanced each
other out, and then it's almost quito. But my favorite
refreshing drink is if you get a Lacroix, and it
(36:15):
can be any Lacroix, but it's better, I think if
it's citrusy and you do Lacroix in a cup of
ice with one little packet of wild strawberry crystal light
because it has a little bit caffeine in it, and
then you do a whole lime squeeze the juice of
an entire lime. So it's Lacroix. Wild strawberry crystal light
has a little bit of caffeine and says a little
(36:36):
pick me up, and it's sparkly because the Lacroix, and
then it has the lime in it. It's like my
favorite drink in the history of time. It's not great
in the winter, because it's a little more of a
some spring summer drink, but I drink it pretty much
every day. Okay, well, y'all go find Lisa and especially
check out her new podcast because I think it's especially
if something like that has been is interesting to you,
(36:57):
the whole theology thing, but you want to hear from
someone that is gonna, you know, give you those cookies
on the lower shelf. Like Lisa's our girl. She's got
our back for sure. So thank you Lisa, Thank you
Amy so much.
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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