November 7, 2023 • 38 mins
Rewind about 4 years ago to when my dear friend Ketric Newell told me something I DID NOT want to hear...
"Leanne your Self-Imaging curriculum is GREAT, but I don't want you to teach it to the teenage girls at The Teen Dream Center....YET."
Ugggh! The nerve of him to tell me it wasn't ready -- or that I wasn't ready! (Or whatever I perceived him to be saying to me.)
But now I can see that he had a VERY good reason to say that to me, and it was this:
I was still teaching "self-love" and "self-worth" as something that you do (strictly) through your OWN strength.
In other words, it was this hyper-independent reliance on SELF to do all the heavy-lifting.
And yes I was a little bit "butt hurt" (as the kids say nowadays) when I first heard him say that, but that's only because I didn't yet GET IT!
That is...until I DID get it.
Because in a world that often encourages self-sufficiency, this concept of letting go and allowing God to take the lead can feel a little daunting (or if you're anything like me....totally FOREIGN!)
But what if you could see it in a whole new light?
If you think that asking for help is WEAKNESS (as I raise my hands in admission)
If you struggle with this idea of surrendering your burdens over to God or a higher power (boy did I ever!)
If you constantly feel like you have to prove how strong, able, tough, or [fill-in-the-blank] you are (SEE ALSO: my entire life before I let God in)...
Then you will LOVE this intimate sit-down with a man I describe as a humble, poetic, prophetic named Ketric.
It's an invitation to simply try on a new definition of "surrender" and the profound impacts that can happen when you shift from self-reliance to God's guidance.
HOST: @LeanneEllington
GUEST: @Ketric
You can find out more about Ketric and the Teen Dream Center here:
https://www.ketric.tv/
https://www.teendreamcenter.com/
To learn more about Leanne, head over to www.LeanneEllington.com, and to share your thoughts, questions, feedback, or guest suggestions instantly, head on over to www.WhatsGodGotToDoWithIt.com.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
If you want to go on a journey. If you're skeptical,
don't worry. Now Here to preach. I'm gonna keep it
clean and talk to me and recall where faith needs
starts nature, get in touch with your creator with a
baking love and June she even speaks Hebrew.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Danzatoo? What's that? Well? Sad talking? Transformation?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
What's that? Dont well?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Hello?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
We are back for another What's God Got to Do
with It? Episode? And I'm here with the amazing Ketric
nowle Hello, Hello, so glad to have you here. Just
to give you some context of how we ended up here. Well,
first of all, we are going to be having a
series come up, and I knew that this interview had
to come before the series because there's a story behind
(01:06):
the story. When we're talking about self image and identity.
How about I just tell how you and I met?
How does that sound okay? And this will set this up.
If you heard my episode where I talked about where
I was dipping my toes into Christianity and getting to
know this guy called Jesus, I found out that there
was an organization, a program, an entity called the Teen
(01:28):
Dream Center, and it was affiliated with cross Point and
actually Ketchick just tell us a little bit about what
the Teen Dream Center does.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, so we work with inner city kids. We started
back in twenty fifteen through cross Point and it happened
because I came out of our our church moved down
to the highest crime rate has poverty rate in Nashville
at the time. A principal on a Sunday morning as
when I was speaking, came up to me afterwards and said, Hey,
will you come to my school? And so I started
going to lunch rooms, hanging out with inner city kids.
(01:56):
Hanging out in the lunch room, I was one of
the only like white guys with this weird blonde streak
in his hair, and they were like, who's this white
guy hanging out and staying around? And eventually they started
hanging out in the student ministry. And so within nine months,
our student ministry became like ninety eight percent inner city
and it began to change my life because I didn't
know what it looked like to live in poverty. I
(02:17):
didn't know what it looked like to live in survival,
and so I just started to realize, God, there's more
that we can do. I don't know how to do that,
but if you'll show me, we'll do it. And that's
how it started. So it started in twenty fifteen through
cross Point and we do mentorship, discipleship, and purpose. So
we have every kid gets a one on mentor we
discipleship teach them about God. And then we have a
(02:39):
purpose program and a coffee company through Frothy Monkey, where
our kids work and make fourteen dollars an hour and
they do different things to learn skills and opportunities that
are head so that they can build what they need
to build so that they can actually do life in
the future.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Wow, and what really is the alternative for them? Like,
just share a little bit about the lives that these
kids are living each day. How old are they, first
of all, and what are the lives and the homes
and the neighborhoods that they're coming from.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, so a lot of our kids, I mean everywhere
from they're sixth grade through twelfth grade. But now we
have our young adults evolved in that eighteen to twenty
somethings as well. Now just because when you're in the family,
you're in the family. It's like you're here. Every one
of our kids that are in the program right now,
or their fathers don't live in the homes, and so
with that comes a lot of things that where they
live and where they come from and here in Nashville,
(03:24):
and it's a really tough place to live for them.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Absolutely. So I don't even remember how I found out
about the Teen Dream Center, but I stumbled in and
ended up volunteering there. And I was with you all
for about a year. And this was before I really
knew Jesus, and I was just dipping my toes in
and every Wednesday, you know, they do certain types of curriculum,
but then not every Wednesday, but some Wednesdays they would
(03:50):
split it up into the girls go over here and
do enrichment for the ladies and the guys do their thing.
And when we were broken up with the women afterwards,
I something inside it was like my self, imaging work
that I do would be so valid for these women
to learn right now. And so I approached you and
Dan and Alli at the time and said, hey, I
would love to, you know, to contribute, and so you're like, okay,
(04:12):
show me what you got. So I think I sent
you like a PowerPoint or something like that, and like
I said, we're setting this up now because you guys
are going to start experiencing the series that we're going
to be putting on starting next week. But I shared
my what were then called the five self image ingredients,
and basically you said to me, you were like, listen, Leanne,
this is great, but this is all still coming from
(04:35):
you and relying on you, and you're the one having
to do all the doing. And I didn't get it.
I was probably a little butt hurt too, because I
was like, what is this? This is my life's work, brother,
Thanks for you know, putting a hole in my dreams, right.
But I didn't get it until I got it, And
that's part of the revelation that came for me, and
(04:58):
seeing about this idea of doing doing life on my own,
doing trying to have experiences on my own, living on
my own, doing it all myself, you know. And when
I say all of it, I mean not just life,
but like my psyche, my spirit, even my spiritual awakening.
I think I was still trying to human my way through.
(05:20):
So that's why we're here to talk about this today.
So first of all, before we dive into the meat
of it, share your version of that or what you
say about doing this on your own everything through your
own works that side of it, because you say it
so much more eloquently than I do.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
No, I mean, I think you said it well. I
think the big thing is, I don't remember even how
I said it to you in the moment. I just
remember thinking in my head of like I got here
in my own life on a strength that wasn't mine,
and I've kind of lived in that reality. So it
just makes sense to me of how I've come from
(06:00):
to a life if you will, And like there's different
words that'll be using the church, but it's like for me,
I came alive and in that and understanding that for me,
I instantly received something new and that newness that I
received didn't come for me, and that newness was for
me the spirit of God, and that that spirit came
(06:20):
to live inside and it made me holy, pure complete.
I didn't have to do anything except receive that right.
And so that was Jesus paid something on the cross
for me. He died on the cross, but he didn't
just die for my sin. He did do that, but
he emptied me of that and then he filled me
(06:42):
with something that's the big key that I think a
lot of people will go around going Jesus forgive me
or God forgive me, and they pray these prayers even
as they're trying to figure it out and not believe yet,
and then oh, I'll come back around when I feel
better or good, or I feel like I'm gonna I'm
gonna achieve it this time or do it better, then
I'll come back around. And when that happens, you don't
(07:04):
understand actually that you already are. So when you receive him,
you already become something you never could have been on
your own. So you become pure, holy, righteous, complete, and
nothing from that moment can make it dirty again, make
you uncomplete again, can make you leny less holy. That's
the big key, and that's the difference. But you have
(07:27):
to put understand that before because if you don't, then
you will just keep trying and trying and trying to
gain something that's already yours. Right.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yeah, so many good distinctions within that. And the reason
I really wanted to talk about this is because you
don't get it until you get it. And sometimes you
need to hear something certain ways, or hear it ten
thousand different ways. A couple things that you said that
really stood out that I want to dive into one.
You said, receive, okay, and really, you know, when you
think about things like we're going to talk about self
acceptance and self worth and self respect and all of
(07:58):
those things, it's like, well, those things are great, but
if I don't feel worthy of receiving them, it's like
they're not even here. Right, So the receivership side of it,
but then also what takes its place, what comes instead
of what you gave up? And then and again people
think like, well, I'll come back when I've done right,
or I'll come back when I earn it, you know,
and it's like, no, you just have it. You don't
(08:20):
have to work for it. You don't have to earn it,
you just have it. It is there, it is yours
to receive. And again brings us full circle back to
this receivership.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Right, So for people that might be struggling with that,
they're like, wait a minute, I'm good, I'm righteous, I'm pure,
I'm whole, I'm complete right now, yes, but what about
this and what about that? And I don't have to
work for it, I don't have to prove it. I
don't have to do anything. Can you just speak into
that because I know conceptually that sounds great, but also
conceptually that sounds if you've been hustling for your worthiness
(08:52):
or working or trying to prove or trying to show
how good you are, please perform perfect, that sounds a
little foreign.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yeah, I think there's a couple of things. I think
at the end of Genesis two, the last sentence that
is made is it says that Adam and Eve were
naked and they felt no shame. Why did he use
that word shame? Same there was none there. So when
everything was perfect, when God made everything and said it
is good, right, when he said those words and he
(09:19):
finished it, he said, there is no shame here. So
I think he let him know like anything that is that,
anything that is shame is not me. And so we
get so caught up in and again we can talk
and I'm sure you've talked about this about the neurological
stuff that you've talked about as well, and neuroscience that
works with that and so many different things as well.
(09:42):
You can talk about that. There's good shame, bad shame, right,
toxic shame, and good shame what I would call that
in the church is condemnation and conviction. Yes, so condemnation.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
That serves you and one is just an endless pit.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Absolutely, because you know, condemnation makes you run from God. Yes,
conviction makes you run to him because you realize he's
the answer to what you're actually struggling through. So that's
the thing. Is anything that's making you shrink, anything that's
making you feel like it's something you are instead of
(10:17):
something I feel bad about what I did, which right,
and Brene Brown all the people will tell you that
shame and guilt are two different things, and you hear
those words too. But condemnation will make you run from God.
Conviction goes I need God. So it's understanding that. So
anything that brings you shame, guilt, fear, any of that,
(10:38):
and I mean the bad fear of like I'm going
to be punished because I'm not good enough. Anything that
makes you want to run from and shrink and hide,
that is not God's voice and the process, and that
is no good to the kingdom because it will not
make you become who you're actually meant to be, because
you're not the things that you do when you come
(11:01):
into a relationship with Jesus. It's more like there's things
bolted to you that you're trying to get away from
you and work through, and when you receive Jesus, all
those things fall off. But sometimes in our actions, in
our old thinking, because renewal of the mind has to
happen through Romans twelve one and two, right, neuroplasticity of
changing the brain, all these things that we didn't learn
(11:23):
until like the nineteen eighties that our brains could even change.
Scripture has been talking about it for all this time,
that it actually can change. But when you understand that,
what's happened to you or what you're doing is is
it an opportunity for you to screw that thing back on?
Now you have the power to go, Nope, that's not me.
It's something trying to get bolted to me. I'm not
(11:46):
what I do anymore. I'm what he has done, and
that is now my identity from here until I get
to the other side.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Such a massive distinction because within the realm of shame
and you're first of all, the neuroscience that I understood
before I met Jesus is what made it all made sense.
I'm like, oh my gosh, this so aligns right, Yeah,
and they're really there is a neurobiology of shame, which
we're going to talk about in next week's episode. But really,
when you think about that contraction, when you are, you know,
running away from when you feel and you know, some
(12:17):
people think conviction is condemnation and they flip those two around, right.
The condemnation is what makes you feel that toxic shame.
You feel like maybe you are something to be a
secret about or or to keep a secret, or you
run away, you high, you feel that shame blanket that
feels like a burden, you actually physiologically shrink, right, Versus
(12:37):
that conviction is almost like this little wiggle in your
ear saying like I'm not down with this, but I
want to step into my life. I want to step
into God's view of me. And it's a running towards process.
I love that distinction, running away from versus running towards well.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
I think all of us have learned that in some
sort of way, whether it means growing up, that the
punishment paradigm is I'm going to put you by yourself
somewhere else. My job is to punish you. That's not
the truth, Like Jesus's job was to show you that
the Old Testament was to control you from the outside in.
(13:14):
Absolutely the New Testament of what Jesus did is I
want to teach you that you can be controlled from
the inside out. And that's the difference. And it's always
an invite, it's never a you must do this because
I tell you because true love is a choice. It
is not something that I put upon you. You're about to
get married. You know this if someone said you're going
(13:34):
to marry them, because I tell you that was not
your choice. And that's not love. Love is actually me
choosing with my own will that I want to participate.
And that's what we get to do with Jesus saying, Jesus,
come make your home in me, and now let transformation
happen from the inside out. But there's a process of renewal.
(13:56):
Your soul is not brand new, your spirit is. You
are wholly complete. Your soul has to be renewed by
the renewing of your mind. And once your mind is
renewed through the truth, then your body and soul will
follow your new spirit. And that's the process.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Okay this, Jesus, make a new home in me, or
make a home in me. I really want to follow that, Fred,
because what you said a minute ago, that really connects
the dots because we talk about this idea where you said,
the shame that's not coming from him, it's self created.
We are the one putting that shame blanket over us,
and that shame is not from him. And then you
talk about this concept of Jesus build a home in me,
(14:47):
you know, and so that being this new restored identity, right,
And when you have that restored identity, it becomes almost
this bubble of resilience where you now see the truth
with the capital T versus the truth that you are
telling yourself that feels true at the time, but it's
not God's view of you, right, And that only comes
from renewing the mind, renewing the spirit, all of that.
(15:09):
So talk about this idea of building a new identity
and allowing Jesus to build a new home within you,
because I love the way you said that.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
One of the things that I think what we get
mixed up in the church a lot of times is
just the whole works base thing. So we think, oh,
I need to read the Bible to be a good Christian,
I need to read the Bible. To get God to
love me. I need to read the Bible to do
these things. Well, that would be exactly what the enemy
would want you to use the Bible for, is to
try to get the Bible to give you something and
(15:37):
get you to believe that you don't already have it.
It's what he told Adam and even the garden, and
he said that if you do this, then you will be.
You will be like God right in Genesis three. If
you do this, then you will be. What's what he's
doing with the Bible. If you read this, then you
will be. Well, he's using that same trick on us
by telling us to read the Bible to get God
(15:57):
to love us. And if you don't sit in a
place of knowing you're already loved, you're actually reading the
Bible for the whole wrong reasons. We read the Bible
to already know that He loves us, But you read
it so that you can renew the mind. Because the
Bible doesn't say that your opinions will set you free.
It doesn't say your past will set you free. It
doesn't say the thing that mom said will set you free,
or the family member, or what happened to you when
(16:19):
you're a kid, will set you free. It says, this
is my truth that sets you free. And so we're
reading it to gain wisdom to become who we already are,
so we can renew our soul, so we can walk
and who we've always we're supposed to be. And so
that's the process. And so don't read the Bible to
get God to love you. He already does. He loves
(16:40):
you if you're still in the middle of questioning. He
loves you if you're still trying to figure it out.
He loved you. When you were sitting at TDC at
the Teen Dream Center hanging out. I could see his
love on you. I knew he loved you. And I
wasn't saying any of those things to go whatever. I
was so glad you were there. And it was so
awesome to watch your transfer as you were learning and
(17:02):
growing and saying Jesus is my bestie, this, Jesus is
my friend, Jesus is this, and watching you walk it out.
It was such a beautiful dating before marriage that was
so beautiful from the outside to watch, and I was going,
I'm not getting in the way of this. It's not
my job to get in the way of that relationship
with you and him. You need to follow that all
(17:24):
the way to the end because once you do and
you receive it, you will know if you have peace
or not. That's the thing when I talked to so
many people at the end of the day. I don't
get into arguments about things. I just asked them, when
you lay your head down on the pillow at nighttime,
is how you're living your life. Does it bring you peace?
(17:45):
And if it doesn't, abandon it until you find peace.
Because I believe that Jesus is the only thing that
will give it, and it can't be duplicated. There's nothing
else that will give peace. That is the litmus test,
that is the fi analogy to go. This is what
I know is to be true because I do have peace.
(18:06):
And the thing is some people have peace for a season,
it'll go away. Then abandon it, go find what it is.
Many conversations, it's not my job to try to change them.
It's not my job to debate them. It's my job
to say, great, if you got peace, run after it.
And if you don't, abandon it and go find peace
because you deserve it. Jesus down on the cross to
give you peace.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Wow. First of all, thank you for all that you
just said. And it's interesting because you said that you
watched me at TDC, and this is obviously before I
knew the love of the Lord, and you were like,
I knew he loved you. But what came to mind
was I didn't know that he loved me yet. If
somebody said to me, hey, Leanne, what happened in between
when you didn't feel love versus when you do feel love,
(18:48):
or when you didn't feel worthy of receiving love versus
when you do. My spirit had to kind of do
its own thing. It had to learn how to receive,
because receivership wasn't ingrained and wired in my brain. And
in fact, the opposite of it was, I was, here's
all the reasons why I'm not worthy of receiving love.
Here's all the reasons why I haven't earned it yet,
but just receiving it. It was a process, and part
(19:09):
of it was a truth that I had to hear
over and over again of Leanne, you don't have to
earn it. It's yours, you know, And it takes faith
to have that faith to step out on that. But
this idea of you are already loved, You are already known,
You are already seen. Can you again? For people that
are just hearing that and they're like, yeah, maybe that's
true for you, but that's not true for me. What
(19:31):
is the blind spot there? If you were to guess, like,
what would you say to somebody who's like, I just
I don't know how to feel? Like logically it makes sense,
but how do I feel love? I call it the
paradox of worthiness?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Right?
Speaker 3 (19:42):
How do you feel worthy when you don't feel worthy?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
It's wild that between zero and two are the most
crucial times of your life. The love you received between
zero and two matter more than any of your life span, right, Like,
It's proven why because from zero to two two, you
can do nothing for your parent, nothing, and they just
(20:05):
love you. Do you know how much I've loved my eight,
five and three year old from zero to two? Do you?
I wipe their booties because they couldn't. We fed them
because they couldn't. We did all the things for them,
We paid the bills. They can't pay rent. They can't
do any of those things. And every day that I
would hold my babies, my baby boys, I would watch
(20:27):
them grow, and I would fall more in love with them,
not because they could do one thing for me. They
couldn't even say that they love me. And even in that,
my love for them grew. The moment that my wife
had valor are first born and he was laid on
her chest, that I cried because it was this amazing
(20:52):
love that you have for something that can do nothing
for you, but somehow it is super natural. And that
is exactly where we have to go back to, because
some of us were never loved the way we were
needed to be loved by the humans in our life.
So all we've heard from a really young age are
these things of what we're not because they didn't know,
(21:15):
they didn't know, they were passed down some things and
they didn't know how to do it. And so for
a lot of us, from zero to two, we don't
even know what happened in that time for a lot
of us, but I think a lot of times it
comes from those moments where there's just all kinds of gaps.
But the great thing is is that Jesus is the
best gap filler. He fills in all of those gaps
(21:36):
where our families missed it and they were doing the
best with what they could and Jesus just has a
way of even through our mentors and the people in
our lives that have loved us, even through that and
our relationships growing up, all of those things, there's still
these gaps that we're sitting back and going, I don't
have peace yet because I still have things that I'm missing.
(21:56):
And that's what Jesus comes to give, not just forgiveness
of sin. Yes, yes, a place to go and you, yes,
all that's true, but to fill you to the full
with everything you needed that no one else could give
you because they were broken to that's what you get.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Yeah, And as you say that, it's like that really
was the story I had to try on. I had
to meet myself in Like, okay, Leanne, just try on
this story where you have a heavenly father that is
here to fill in all those gaps that you didn't know,
you didn't know you needed or wanted, and like what
if again? Just try this on. You don't have to
do a thing. You just get that love because you
(22:34):
are and because you're his. And that's where that child
like faith comes in, because again a zero at a
two year old or however old you are, when you
don't have the consciousness to you know, actively choose and
make decisions and all the things you're not earning and hustling.
The love for the love, it's just there. It's given
to you so freely, right with pleasure, with love, with
(22:54):
a cherry on top. Right. So again, if you are
in those shoes of like, Okay, hey, I get it logically,
I'm loved, but I don't feel it. It's a trying
on process. And the renewing of the mind doesn't necessarily
happen overnight. Sometimes it's expedient and sometimes it's not. But
if you keep chasing after it, and you keep searching
for it and again at like, prove yourself wrong or
(23:16):
prove yourself right, whichever way you look at it, that
you are lovable, look for the reasons, look for Jesus,
for your heavenly Father to fill in those gaps, and
you'll find them, you know. And again what you said
about is it giving me peace? So the story that
you're telling yourself about your lovability or your worthiness right now,
is it giving you peace or is it taking peace
(23:36):
away from you? You know? And so that's why it's like,
try on this alternative ending to your story or really
it's a beginning, right, try it on and see how
it feels. So let's move into the identity conversation around.
(24:00):
You know, we talked about these self image ingredients, right,
and we talked about, you know, trying to do it
through our own strength. So what is the alternative? So,
by the way, spoiler alert, and we're going to talk
all about the neurobiology of shame and all of these
self image ingredients as they look through the picture of
the picture of God. But when it comes to this
(24:20):
idea of filling up your own cup with self acceptance
and self love and all of that. And we had
Corey Trumble on the podcast a couple of weeks ago,
and he talked about how nowadays people are there's this
hyper inflation of self as the epitome of what people
are chasing after, right, the era of the selfies and
all of that. But also, you know, it comes to
thinking about yourselves and you know, trying to get likes
(24:43):
and all the things. But then also when it comes
to and personal development can be great, but a lot
of times it's also reliant on self. Right, A lot
of times it's called self development. Right, So where can
we meet ourselves in the middle of because part of
it too is like not just hand it over to
God and say, hey, show me miracles. I'm not going
to do the work. I'm going to sit back. It's like, no,
(25:04):
we have to take radical ownership and take intelligent action
as well. And so there is the self piece of
the puzzle. But then it's allowing God to come in
and really do the heavy lifting. So can you talk
to us a little bit about your version of that intersection.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah, there's always cooperation. So that's the thing that I
think people are waiting on. Like sometimes people are just like, well,
if God wanted to, he would just come and I
would have this spiritual moment. And sometimes people do, and
so we hear about these moments and that's totally cool.
Sometimes it's an instant moment that takes place, and that's
(25:38):
what I would call a miracle. A miracle is something
that is outside of space and time and someone instantly
gets healed from that thing. And I've seen it happen
and it's real. But a lot of times it's less
about a miracle and more like a healing that it's
a process and it's an active and it's an active
process that he will only go where you are ready
to go. So if you don't want to give it up,
(26:02):
he's not going to be the angry dad at the
dinner table grabbing your plate and throwing it in the sink.
He's going to go, hey, i'll let you do that.
I don't want you to do that. I've got better
things for you. But I will sit and wait because
I'm patient, because I want fully you, not you reluctant
or you know, any other way. And it's hard for
(26:24):
us to realize that, Like on my good days of
taking care of my kids, like there will be moments
where Valor or one of our kids will throw a
fit or whatever it is, and on my good days,
I will sit back and let that happen and then say, hey,
I would love to talk to you. I have some
things to say about that, and I would love to
have a conversation with you about that when you're ready,
(26:46):
and allow him to calm down and then be ready.
And that's like for the Lord is like you can
keep going around this circle and doing the thing again
and going maybe this time it'll be different. Insanity, Well
we know, but at some point he's still there. He's
waiting he's waiting. And if I remember, did we read
(27:06):
the Father's Letter, And the last line of the Father's
Letter at TDC one night that you read was I'm waiting.
That's the line at the end of that. And I
remember you saying that that impacted you. That's so crazy
because the last line was I'm waiting for you. And
(27:26):
that's so it.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
And sometimes you just need a line like that speaks
to you, I'm waiting for you. It spoke to me
in those moments.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Well, and and that's that's it. That So it's it's
being okay. Your role is participation in whatever way that
that that makes sense for you, and you knowing I'm
going to have to make some changes. Is participation. You
sometimes sitting and going I'm not sure yet is participation.
It's just taking an active role, I think in whatever
(27:57):
realm that you're in right now. But he will not
come in and take it from you. He's always inviting.
He's never going to take over your will. He's never
going to violate you. He's a gentleman. He's not going
to do that. And so he's always saying I'm here,
I'm ready, I'm willing. I've proven that through what I've
(28:19):
done listening my son to the cross. I'm ready and willing.
My ANSWER's always been yes, but I have to have
your participation because if I don't, I'm violating you and
I will never ever violate you.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Yeah, it's interesting that even just a lot of times
I hear people say like, I'm waiting for God too,
and it's like, no, He's like I'm here and I'm waiting,
and you know, you think about filling in the blank
of like what are you waiting for? And for me,
it was like, I'm waiting for you to surrender. I'm
waiting for you to stop trying to do it all
on your own. I'm waiting for you to let me
come in and help you.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
So let me say this. I think it can be
for you in that moment, because you were such a
driven person, God was waiting on you. Sometimes we're waiting
on God in some ways, right, And that's a good
thing to pray, because the best thing you could pray
out of this, well, there's two things I think you
could pray out of a conversation like this, whether you're
trying to figure it out or you're in the middle.
(29:12):
One thing you can pray is God, help me unlearn
anything I've learned it's not from you. Whatever you picked
it up, however you picked it up if it wasn't
from him. Because it's like if someone in my family
was to say, say my kids were to or my
wife was to go tell someone that I said something
that I didn't say, he'd be very frustrated, right the
same way God feels when he goes, oh, well God
(29:34):
said this or God did that. But we've never actually
met with him to actually know what he says, and
so sometimes we need to hear it from him first.
And the good thing you can pray is God, help
me unlearn anything I've learned it's not from you, so
that I can actually hear it from you. And then
the other thing to pray is God, am I waiting
on you or you waiting on me?
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Such a good question?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Those are great. That's the best prayer you can pray,
because then you'll know I'm in neutral and need to
put into drive or no, this is just a season
of waiting. And I can tell you my life how
many seasons I've been in waiting on the Lord and
how many times I was praying and using it as
an excuse to not do the thing God wanted me
to do, and he was actually waiting on me.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
So as you were saying this, you know, one thing
that came to my mind was this idea of even
just viewing this conversation through our human eyes, but then
also needing spiritual eyes to really receive this. And part
of it is the only like the transformation occurs when
you take on these spiritual eyes. So again, for these
action takers, these high level thinkers, success driven people, very
(30:36):
logic seeking people, what do you say about putting on
spiritual eyes in that process? And just again, I know
it's a surrender process and it's faith, you know, but
like in your version of what it would it look
like to look through the spiritual lens of this conversation
of receiving love, receiving worthiness.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Some people just have the go like I gotta go,
I'm go set ready, right like I'm just I'm taking off.
I'm going to make it happen. I've always made it happen.
I'm the type of person that's never gonna quit. You
can't get me down. Everything's you know, half, it's half full,
and even more, it's always that and you pride yourself
on never quitting, and the thing that you have to
(31:16):
get to the end of yourself with is to decide
is it working again? Going back to that thing, but
realizing that the whole thing of faith is you'll spend
your life surrendering more than you'll actually spend your life doing.
It's surrendering your own mindset. It's surrendering to someone that's
bigger than you, that's greater than you, that loves you.
(31:38):
Like all of these things, it's a surrender, and surrender
so hard. But that that is the biggest thing, is
somehow going I don't know how that could be the
great place to start. I don't know how to surrender
because even that verse that says that God knows what
we need before we ask that issues made me so
mad because I'm like, if he knows, why am I
(31:59):
having to ask? But what I realize is that versus
saying is God, you know what I don't know? Will
you make me aware of what I need to know?
And that's a great thing. If you don't know how
to surrender, there's the prayer. I don't know how to surrender.
I've never surrendered. I've used my entire life to perform.
(32:20):
What do you mean my performance isn't going to work.
It doesn't mean it doesn't work. It just needs to
be put in the right perspective. I'm telling you you
and I've done freedom prayer. In my freedom prayer, my
first three freedom prayers that I did, the conversation at
some point in my freedom prayer was hey, Ketrick, could
we ask the Lord if we could put your performance
(32:42):
over to this side and just think it. Okay, that
may sound weird for some of you that are believers
or whatever. Trust me, it's an amazing thing and it's awesome.
But for three prayer times, I was not ready to
give up performance. So every time the Lord had to
remove it out of the way for me to deal
with some things that he wanted to deal with. It
(33:03):
wasn't until my fourth freedom prayer that I was actually
ready to What I used as a defense was performance
all of my life. So when I was able to
set that down as performance and say, this has been
the thing that's defended me all my life, but it's
not working because my performance in that season of life.
(33:25):
This last year, if you would have known me a
year ago from this podcast, I had anxiety out the
roof because my performance wasn't working anymore and I had
to come to the end of myself. What didn't mean
I wasn't a believer. It just meant I was using
performance to defend my life instead of allowing Jesus to
(33:47):
be my defender. And once I gave that away, he
then showed me where that started, where the root of
it was, where it started in my life, way back
when I was a kid, when I didn't even know
that the enemy was there. That he he showed me
where it was. And then from there he gave me
some things that I needed. When I was ten, he
(34:08):
grew me up. That's what happens for all of us.
There's this little kid in us. There's a little girl
in you and a little boy and me that got
stunned way back here in some way because we traded
that life for a truth. And then that little kid,
even though I grew in age, was still in me.
And it wasn't until I was able to allow Jesus
(34:30):
into that place that he grew me to the age
that I am today. And that's what happens. But you
have to get to a place of going. I'm trying
to defend my life with this, I have all my
life and it's worked. Listen, I need you to understand.
It's okay. It's worked really well until it doesn't. And
if it doesn't, then don't defend it anymore. Go find
(34:51):
what it is that actually works. And what I feel
like I found is Jesus.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Wow. And that in itself was such a surrender. And
it's a full circle story because when we are in
that performance perfecting, pleasing mindset, it becomes an identity. It's like, oh,
I'll show the world how smart I am, how capable
I am, how funny I am, what a great performer
I am, And it becomes our identity and that becomes
rooted so much more deeply than the true identity being
embedded in Christ.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
And everything whatever we surrender to, everything about that, everything
else can be taken from us. Yeah, Jesus is the
only thing we can surrender to that can't be taken
from us. And that's the security. Is everything else, the
things you just you just you just named off, they
can all be taken from me. And what does it
look like to be secure? It looks like putting your
(35:38):
hope and your identity and something that can't be taken
from you.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yeah, and when we when we add up that list,
a lot of us, a lot of our security are
our worth is external. It can be taken away in
a moment. Wow. So now you see why I want
to catch it to come on here, and there's so
much more goodness within him that we're going to have
you back on future episodes. But beyond the scope of
this worthiness identity conversation, just share a little bit about
(36:02):
who you are and what you're purposeful about, and then
also where people can find you.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah. So obviously I started the Team Dream Center and
that's what I do. I'm the director there and the
founder of the Teen Dream Center and the pastor there.
But also I travel and speak and so I've traveled.
You can go to Ketric dot TV and I travel
at youth events, camps, retreats, churches, big church. I still
call it even though these days, but I travel around
and do events and all of those things as well.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
Amazing, Well, you will have him back. He's on the
Spiritual Advisory Committee here on What's God Got to Do
with It or the Godpod, So everything has to go
through the Ketric filter from now on. I'm just calling
it out a little bit awesome. Well, thank you so
much for your time, thank you for being here, sign
an off here for What's God Got to Do with It?
And we'll see you next time. Bye.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
We'll be back with more What's God Got to Do
with It?
Speaker 3 (36:51):
But in the meantime, I would definitely love to hear
from you, so just tell me where you are in
your story or maybe what questions you have. Where do
you feel you need clarity or support or wisdom in
your own journey. I definitely want to hear from you,
So head on over to What's God Got to Do
with It? Dot com and scroll down to the form
(37:12):
to share your thoughts, your questions, your.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
Feedback, and you can do that instantly. So What's God
Got to Do with It?
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Dot com?
Speaker 4 (37:19):
You'll find all the ways to do that.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
And if you like this podcast and want to hear more,
go ahead and follow, like, and subscribe wherever you listen
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Got to Do with It?
Speaker 4 (37:32):
New episodes drop every single.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Tuesday, and while you're there, be sure to rate and
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What's God Got to Do With It? Is an iHeartRadio
podcast on the Amy Brown Podcast Network. It's written and
hosted by meek Leanne Ellington, Executive produced by Elizabeth Fozio,
post production and editing by Houston Tilley, and original music
(37:56):
written by Cheryl Stark and produced by Adam Stark. Yeah.
If you want to go on a journey. If you're skeptical,
don't worry. Now Here to preach. I'm gonna keep it
clean and talk to me and recall where faith needs
starts nature, get in touch with your creator with a
baking love and June she even speaks Hebrew.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Danzatoo? What's that? Well? Sad talking? Transformation?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
What's that? Dont well?
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Hello?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
We are back for another What's God Got to Do
with It? Episode? And I'm here with the amazing Ketric
nowle Hello, Hello, so glad to have you here. Just
to give you some context of how we ended up here. Well,
first of all, we are going to be having a
series come up, and I knew that this interview had
to come before the series because there's a story behind
(01:06):
the story. When we're talking about self image and identity.
How about I just tell how you and I met?
How does that sound okay? And this will set this up.
If you heard my episode where I talked about where
I was dipping my toes into Christianity and getting to
know this guy called Jesus, I found out that there
was an organization, a program, an entity called the Teen
(01:28):
Dream Center, and it was affiliated with cross Point and
actually Ketchick just tell us a little bit about what
the Teen Dream Center does.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, so we work with inner city kids. We started
back in twenty fifteen through cross Point and it happened
because I came out of our our church moved down
to the highest crime rate has poverty rate in Nashville
at the time. A principal on a Sunday morning as
when I was speaking, came up to me afterwards and said, Hey,
will you come to my school? And so I started
going to lunch rooms, hanging out with inner city kids.
(01:56):
Hanging out in the lunch room, I was one of
the only like white guys with this weird blonde streak
in his hair, and they were like, who's this white
guy hanging out and staying around? And eventually they started
hanging out in the student ministry. And so within nine months,
our student ministry became like ninety eight percent inner city
and it began to change my life because I didn't
know what it looked like to live in poverty. I
(02:17):
didn't know what it looked like to live in survival,
and so I just started to realize, God, there's more
that we can do. I don't know how to do that,
but if you'll show me, we'll do it. And that's
how it started. So it started in twenty fifteen through
cross Point and we do mentorship, discipleship, and purpose. So
we have every kid gets a one on mentor we
discipleship teach them about God. And then we have a
(02:39):
purpose program and a coffee company through Frothy Monkey, where
our kids work and make fourteen dollars an hour and
they do different things to learn skills and opportunities that
are head so that they can build what they need
to build so that they can actually do life in
the future.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Wow, and what really is the alternative for them? Like,
just share a little bit about the lives that these
kids are living each day. How old are they, first
of all, and what are the lives and the homes
and the neighborhoods that they're coming from.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, so a lot of our kids, I mean everywhere
from they're sixth grade through twelfth grade. But now we
have our young adults evolved in that eighteen to twenty
somethings as well. Now just because when you're in the family,
you're in the family. It's like you're here. Every one
of our kids that are in the program right now,
or their fathers don't live in the homes, and so
with that comes a lot of things that where they
live and where they come from and here in Nashville,
(03:24):
and it's a really tough place to live for them.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Absolutely. So I don't even remember how I found out
about the Teen Dream Center, but I stumbled in and
ended up volunteering there. And I was with you all
for about a year. And this was before I really
knew Jesus, and I was just dipping my toes in
and every Wednesday, you know, they do certain types of curriculum,
but then not every Wednesday, but some Wednesdays they would
(03:50):
split it up into the girls go over here and
do enrichment for the ladies and the guys do their thing.
And when we were broken up with the women afterwards,
I something inside it was like my self, imaging work
that I do would be so valid for these women
to learn right now. And so I approached you and
Dan and Alli at the time and said, hey, I
would love to, you know, to contribute, and so you're like, okay,
(04:12):
show me what you got. So I think I sent
you like a PowerPoint or something like that, and like
I said, we're setting this up now because you guys
are going to start experiencing the series that we're going
to be putting on starting next week. But I shared
my what were then called the five self image ingredients,
and basically you said to me, you were like, listen, Leanne,
this is great, but this is all still coming from
(04:35):
you and relying on you, and you're the one having
to do all the doing. And I didn't get it.
I was probably a little butt hurt too, because I
was like, what is this? This is my life's work, brother,
Thanks for you know, putting a hole in my dreams, right.
But I didn't get it until I got it, And
that's part of the revelation that came for me, and
(04:58):
seeing about this idea of doing doing life on my own,
doing trying to have experiences on my own, living on
my own, doing it all myself, you know. And when
I say all of it, I mean not just life,
but like my psyche, my spirit, even my spiritual awakening.
I think I was still trying to human my way through.
(05:20):
So that's why we're here to talk about this today.
So first of all, before we dive into the meat
of it, share your version of that or what you
say about doing this on your own everything through your
own works that side of it, because you say it
so much more eloquently than I do.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
No, I mean, I think you said it well. I
think the big thing is, I don't remember even how
I said it to you in the moment. I just
remember thinking in my head of like I got here
in my own life on a strength that wasn't mine,
and I've kind of lived in that reality. So it
just makes sense to me of how I've come from
(06:00):
to a life if you will, And like there's different
words that'll be using the church, but it's like for me,
I came alive and in that and understanding that for me,
I instantly received something new and that newness that I
received didn't come for me, and that newness was for
me the spirit of God, and that that spirit came
(06:20):
to live inside and it made me holy, pure complete.
I didn't have to do anything except receive that right.
And so that was Jesus paid something on the cross
for me. He died on the cross, but he didn't
just die for my sin. He did do that, but
he emptied me of that and then he filled me
(06:42):
with something that's the big key that I think a
lot of people will go around going Jesus forgive me
or God forgive me, and they pray these prayers even
as they're trying to figure it out and not believe yet,
and then oh, I'll come back around when I feel
better or good, or I feel like I'm gonna I'm
gonna achieve it this time or do it better, then
I'll come back around. And when that happens, you don't
(07:04):
understand actually that you already are. So when you receive him,
you already become something you never could have been on
your own. So you become pure, holy, righteous, complete, and
nothing from that moment can make it dirty again, make
you uncomplete again, can make you leny less holy. That's
the big key, and that's the difference. But you have
(07:27):
to put understand that before because if you don't, then
you will just keep trying and trying and trying to
gain something that's already yours. Right.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yeah, so many good distinctions within that. And the reason
I really wanted to talk about this is because you
don't get it until you get it. And sometimes you
need to hear something certain ways, or hear it ten
thousand different ways. A couple things that you said that
really stood out that I want to dive into one.
You said, receive, okay, and really, you know, when you
think about things like we're going to talk about self
acceptance and self worth and self respect and all of
(07:58):
those things, it's like, well, those things are great, but
if I don't feel worthy of receiving them, it's like
they're not even here. Right, So the receivership side of it,
but then also what takes its place, what comes instead
of what you gave up? And then and again people
think like, well, I'll come back when I've done right,
or I'll come back when I earn it, you know,
and it's like, no, you just have it. You don't
(08:20):
have to work for it. You don't have to earn it,
you just have it. It is there, it is yours
to receive. And again brings us full circle back to
this receivership.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Right, So for people that might be struggling with that,
they're like, wait a minute, I'm good, I'm righteous, I'm pure,
I'm whole, I'm complete right now, yes, but what about
this and what about that? And I don't have to
work for it, I don't have to prove it. I
don't have to do anything. Can you just speak into
that because I know conceptually that sounds great, but also
conceptually that sounds if you've been hustling for your worthiness
(08:52):
or working or trying to prove or trying to show
how good you are, please perform perfect, that sounds a
little foreign.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yeah, I think there's a couple of things. I think
at the end of Genesis two, the last sentence that
is made is it says that Adam and Eve were
naked and they felt no shame. Why did he use
that word shame? Same there was none there. So when
everything was perfect, when God made everything and said it
is good, right, when he said those words and he
(09:19):
finished it, he said, there is no shame here. So
I think he let him know like anything that is that,
anything that is shame is not me. And so we
get so caught up in and again we can talk
and I'm sure you've talked about this about the neurological
stuff that you've talked about as well, and neuroscience that
works with that and so many different things as well.
(09:42):
You can talk about that. There's good shame, bad shame, right,
toxic shame, and good shame what I would call that
in the church is condemnation and conviction. Yes, so condemnation.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
That serves you and one is just an endless pit.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Absolutely, because you know, condemnation makes you run from God. Yes,
conviction makes you run to him because you realize he's
the answer to what you're actually struggling through. So that's
the thing. Is anything that's making you shrink, anything that's
making you feel like it's something you are instead of
(10:17):
something I feel bad about what I did, which right,
and Brene Brown all the people will tell you that
shame and guilt are two different things, and you hear
those words too. But condemnation will make you run from God.
Conviction goes I need God. So it's understanding that. So
anything that brings you shame, guilt, fear, any of that,
(10:38):
and I mean the bad fear of like I'm going
to be punished because I'm not good enough. Anything that
makes you want to run from and shrink and hide,
that is not God's voice and the process, and that
is no good to the kingdom because it will not
make you become who you're actually meant to be, because
you're not the things that you do when you come
(11:01):
into a relationship with Jesus. It's more like there's things
bolted to you that you're trying to get away from
you and work through, and when you receive Jesus, all
those things fall off. But sometimes in our actions, in
our old thinking, because renewal of the mind has to
happen through Romans twelve one and two, right, neuroplasticity of
changing the brain, all these things that we didn't learn
(11:23):
until like the nineteen eighties that our brains could even change.
Scripture has been talking about it for all this time,
that it actually can change. But when you understand that,
what's happened to you or what you're doing is is
it an opportunity for you to screw that thing back on?
Now you have the power to go, Nope, that's not me.
It's something trying to get bolted to me. I'm not
(11:46):
what I do anymore. I'm what he has done, and
that is now my identity from here until I get
to the other side.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Such a massive distinction because within the realm of shame
and you're first of all, the neuroscience that I understood
before I met Jesus is what made it all made sense.
I'm like, oh my gosh, this so aligns right, Yeah,
and they're really there is a neurobiology of shame, which
we're going to talk about in next week's episode. But really,
when you think about that contraction, when you are, you know,
running away from when you feel and you know, some
(12:17):
people think conviction is condemnation and they flip those two around, right.
The condemnation is what makes you feel that toxic shame.
You feel like maybe you are something to be a
secret about or or to keep a secret, or you
run away, you high, you feel that shame blanket that
feels like a burden, you actually physiologically shrink, right, Versus
(12:37):
that conviction is almost like this little wiggle in your
ear saying like I'm not down with this, but I
want to step into my life. I want to step
into God's view of me. And it's a running towards process.
I love that distinction, running away from versus running towards well.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
I think all of us have learned that in some
sort of way, whether it means growing up, that the
punishment paradigm is I'm going to put you by yourself
somewhere else. My job is to punish you. That's not
the truth, Like Jesus's job was to show you that
the Old Testament was to control you from the outside in.
(13:14):
Absolutely the New Testament of what Jesus did is I
want to teach you that you can be controlled from
the inside out. And that's the difference. And it's always
an invite, it's never a you must do this because
I tell you because true love is a choice. It
is not something that I put upon you. You're about to
get married. You know this if someone said you're going
(13:34):
to marry them, because I tell you that was not
your choice. And that's not love. Love is actually me
choosing with my own will that I want to participate.
And that's what we get to do with Jesus saying, Jesus,
come make your home in me, and now let transformation
happen from the inside out. But there's a process of renewal.
(13:56):
Your soul is not brand new, your spirit is. You
are wholly complete. Your soul has to be renewed by
the renewing of your mind. And once your mind is
renewed through the truth, then your body and soul will
follow your new spirit. And that's the process.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Okay this, Jesus, make a new home in me, or
make a home in me. I really want to follow that, Fred,
because what you said a minute ago, that really connects
the dots because we talk about this idea where you said,
the shame that's not coming from him, it's self created.
We are the one putting that shame blanket over us,
and that shame is not from him. And then you
talk about this concept of Jesus build a home in me,
(14:47):
you know, and so that being this new restored identity, right,
And when you have that restored identity, it becomes almost
this bubble of resilience where you now see the truth
with the capital T versus the truth that you are
telling yourself that feels true at the time, but it's
not God's view of you, right, And that only comes
from renewing the mind, renewing the spirit, all of that.
(15:09):
So talk about this idea of building a new identity
and allowing Jesus to build a new home within you,
because I love the way you said that.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
One of the things that I think what we get
mixed up in the church a lot of times is
just the whole works base thing. So we think, oh,
I need to read the Bible to be a good Christian,
I need to read the Bible. To get God to
love me. I need to read the Bible to do
these things. Well, that would be exactly what the enemy
would want you to use the Bible for, is to
try to get the Bible to give you something and
(15:37):
get you to believe that you don't already have it.
It's what he told Adam and even the garden, and
he said that if you do this, then you will be.
You will be like God right in Genesis three. If
you do this, then you will be. What's what he's
doing with the Bible. If you read this, then you
will be. Well, he's using that same trick on us
by telling us to read the Bible to get God
(15:57):
to love us. And if you don't sit in a
place of knowing you're already loved, you're actually reading the
Bible for the whole wrong reasons. We read the Bible
to already know that He loves us, But you read
it so that you can renew the mind. Because the
Bible doesn't say that your opinions will set you free.
It doesn't say your past will set you free. It
doesn't say the thing that mom said will set you free,
or the family member, or what happened to you when
(16:19):
you're a kid, will set you free. It says, this
is my truth that sets you free. And so we're
reading it to gain wisdom to become who we already are,
so we can renew our soul, so we can walk
and who we've always we're supposed to be. And so
that's the process. And so don't read the Bible to
get God to love you. He already does. He loves
(16:40):
you if you're still in the middle of questioning. He
loves you if you're still trying to figure it out.
He loved you. When you were sitting at TDC at
the Teen Dream Center hanging out. I could see his
love on you. I knew he loved you. And I
wasn't saying any of those things to go whatever. I
was so glad you were there. And it was so
awesome to watch your transfer as you were learning and
(17:02):
growing and saying Jesus is my bestie, this, Jesus is
my friend, Jesus is this, and watching you walk it out.
It was such a beautiful dating before marriage that was
so beautiful from the outside to watch, and I was going,
I'm not getting in the way of this. It's not
my job to get in the way of that relationship
with you and him. You need to follow that all
(17:24):
the way to the end because once you do and
you receive it, you will know if you have peace
or not. That's the thing when I talked to so
many people at the end of the day. I don't
get into arguments about things. I just asked them, when
you lay your head down on the pillow at nighttime,
is how you're living your life. Does it bring you peace?
(17:45):
And if it doesn't, abandon it until you find peace.
Because I believe that Jesus is the only thing that
will give it, and it can't be duplicated. There's nothing
else that will give peace. That is the litmus test,
that is the fi analogy to go. This is what
I know is to be true because I do have peace.
(18:06):
And the thing is some people have peace for a season,
it'll go away. Then abandon it, go find what it is.
Many conversations, it's not my job to try to change them.
It's not my job to debate them. It's my job
to say, great, if you got peace, run after it.
And if you don't, abandon it and go find peace
because you deserve it. Jesus down on the cross to
give you peace.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Wow. First of all, thank you for all that you
just said. And it's interesting because you said that you
watched me at TDC, and this is obviously before I
knew the love of the Lord, and you were like,
I knew he loved you. But what came to mind
was I didn't know that he loved me yet. If
somebody said to me, hey, Leanne, what happened in between
when you didn't feel love versus when you do feel love,
(18:48):
or when you didn't feel worthy of receiving love versus
when you do. My spirit had to kind of do
its own thing. It had to learn how to receive,
because receivership wasn't ingrained and wired in my brain. And
in fact, the opposite of it was, I was, here's
all the reasons why I'm not worthy of receiving love.
Here's all the reasons why I haven't earned it yet,
but just receiving it. It was a process, and part
(19:09):
of it was a truth that I had to hear
over and over again of Leanne, you don't have to
earn it. It's yours, you know, And it takes faith
to have that faith to step out on that. But
this idea of you are already loved, You are already known,
You are already seen. Can you again? For people that
are just hearing that and they're like, yeah, maybe that's
true for you, but that's not true for me. What
(19:31):
is the blind spot there? If you were to guess, like,
what would you say to somebody who's like, I just
I don't know how to feel? Like logically it makes sense,
but how do I feel love? I call it the
paradox of worthiness?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Right?
Speaker 3 (19:42):
How do you feel worthy when you don't feel worthy?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
It's wild that between zero and two are the most
crucial times of your life. The love you received between
zero and two matter more than any of your life span, right, Like,
It's proven why because from zero to two two, you
can do nothing for your parent, nothing, and they just
(20:05):
love you. Do you know how much I've loved my eight,
five and three year old from zero to two? Do you?
I wipe their booties because they couldn't. We fed them
because they couldn't. We did all the things for them,
We paid the bills. They can't pay rent. They can't
do any of those things. And every day that I
would hold my babies, my baby boys, I would watch
(20:27):
them grow, and I would fall more in love with them,
not because they could do one thing for me. They
couldn't even say that they love me. And even in that,
my love for them grew. The moment that my wife
had valor are first born and he was laid on
her chest, that I cried because it was this amazing
(20:52):
love that you have for something that can do nothing
for you, but somehow it is super natural. And that
is exactly where we have to go back to, because
some of us were never loved the way we were
needed to be loved by the humans in our life.
So all we've heard from a really young age are
these things of what we're not because they didn't know,
(21:15):
they didn't know, they were passed down some things and
they didn't know how to do it. And so for
a lot of us, from zero to two, we don't
even know what happened in that time for a lot
of us, but I think a lot of times it
comes from those moments where there's just all kinds of gaps.
But the great thing is is that Jesus is the
best gap filler. He fills in all of those gaps
(21:36):
where our families missed it and they were doing the
best with what they could and Jesus just has a
way of even through our mentors and the people in
our lives that have loved us, even through that and
our relationships growing up, all of those things, there's still
these gaps that we're sitting back and going, I don't
have peace yet because I still have things that I'm missing.
(21:56):
And that's what Jesus comes to give, not just forgiveness
of sin. Yes, yes, a place to go and you, yes,
all that's true, but to fill you to the full
with everything you needed that no one else could give
you because they were broken to that's what you get.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Yeah, And as you say that, it's like that really
was the story I had to try on. I had
to meet myself in Like, okay, Leanne, just try on
this story where you have a heavenly father that is
here to fill in all those gaps that you didn't know,
you didn't know you needed or wanted, and like what
if again? Just try this on. You don't have to
do a thing. You just get that love because you
(22:34):
are and because you're his. And that's where that child
like faith comes in, because again a zero at a
two year old or however old you are, when you
don't have the consciousness to you know, actively choose and
make decisions and all the things you're not earning and hustling.
The love for the love, it's just there. It's given
to you so freely, right with pleasure, with love, with
(22:54):
a cherry on top. Right. So again, if you are
in those shoes of like, Okay, hey, I get it logically,
I'm loved, but I don't feel it. It's a trying
on process. And the renewing of the mind doesn't necessarily
happen overnight. Sometimes it's expedient and sometimes it's not. But
if you keep chasing after it, and you keep searching
for it and again at like, prove yourself wrong or
(23:16):
prove yourself right, whichever way you look at it, that
you are lovable, look for the reasons, look for Jesus,
for your heavenly Father to fill in those gaps, and
you'll find them, you know. And again what you said
about is it giving me peace? So the story that
you're telling yourself about your lovability or your worthiness right now,
is it giving you peace or is it taking peace
(23:36):
away from you? You know? And so that's why it's like,
try on this alternative ending to your story or really
it's a beginning, right, try it on and see how
it feels. So let's move into the identity conversation around.
(24:00):
You know, we talked about these self image ingredients, right,
and we talked about, you know, trying to do it
through our own strength. So what is the alternative? So,
by the way, spoiler alert, and we're going to talk
all about the neurobiology of shame and all of these
self image ingredients as they look through the picture of
the picture of God. But when it comes to this
(24:20):
idea of filling up your own cup with self acceptance
and self love and all of that. And we had
Corey Trumble on the podcast a couple of weeks ago,
and he talked about how nowadays people are there's this
hyper inflation of self as the epitome of what people
are chasing after, right, the era of the selfies and
all of that. But also, you know, it comes to
thinking about yourselves and you know, trying to get likes
(24:43):
and all the things. But then also when it comes
to and personal development can be great, but a lot
of times it's also reliant on self. Right, A lot
of times it's called self development. Right, So where can
we meet ourselves in the middle of because part of
it too is like not just hand it over to
God and say, hey, show me miracles. I'm not going
to do the work. I'm going to sit back. It's like, no,
(25:04):
we have to take radical ownership and take intelligent action
as well. And so there is the self piece of
the puzzle. But then it's allowing God to come in
and really do the heavy lifting. So can you talk
to us a little bit about your version of that intersection.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah, there's always cooperation. So that's the thing that I
think people are waiting on. Like sometimes people are just like, well,
if God wanted to, he would just come and I
would have this spiritual moment. And sometimes people do, and
so we hear about these moments and that's totally cool.
Sometimes it's an instant moment that takes place, and that's
(25:38):
what I would call a miracle. A miracle is something
that is outside of space and time and someone instantly
gets healed from that thing. And I've seen it happen
and it's real. But a lot of times it's less
about a miracle and more like a healing that it's
a process and it's an active and it's an active
process that he will only go where you are ready
to go. So if you don't want to give it up,
(26:02):
he's not going to be the angry dad at the
dinner table grabbing your plate and throwing it in the sink.
He's going to go, hey, i'll let you do that.
I don't want you to do that. I've got better
things for you. But I will sit and wait because
I'm patient, because I want fully you, not you reluctant
or you know, any other way. And it's hard for
(26:24):
us to realize that, Like on my good days of
taking care of my kids, like there will be moments
where Valor or one of our kids will throw a
fit or whatever it is, and on my good days,
I will sit back and let that happen and then say, hey,
I would love to talk to you. I have some
things to say about that, and I would love to
have a conversation with you about that when you're ready,
(26:46):
and allow him to calm down and then be ready.
And that's like for the Lord is like you can
keep going around this circle and doing the thing again
and going maybe this time it'll be different. Insanity, Well
we know, but at some point he's still there. He's
waiting he's waiting. And if I remember, did we read
(27:06):
the Father's Letter, And the last line of the Father's
Letter at TDC one night that you read was I'm waiting.
That's the line at the end of that. And I
remember you saying that that impacted you. That's so crazy
because the last line was I'm waiting for you. And
(27:26):
that's so it.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
And sometimes you just need a line like that speaks
to you, I'm waiting for you. It spoke to me
in those moments.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Well, and and that's that's it. That So it's it's
being okay. Your role is participation in whatever way that
that that makes sense for you, and you knowing I'm
going to have to make some changes. Is participation. You
sometimes sitting and going I'm not sure yet is participation.
It's just taking an active role, I think in whatever
(27:57):
realm that you're in right now. But he will not
come in and take it from you. He's always inviting.
He's never going to take over your will. He's never
going to violate you. He's a gentleman. He's not going
to do that. And so he's always saying I'm here,
I'm ready, I'm willing. I've proven that through what I've
(28:19):
done listening my son to the cross. I'm ready and willing.
My ANSWER's always been yes, but I have to have
your participation because if I don't, I'm violating you and
I will never ever violate you.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Yeah, it's interesting that even just a lot of times
I hear people say like, I'm waiting for God too,
and it's like, no, He's like I'm here and I'm waiting,
and you know, you think about filling in the blank
of like what are you waiting for? And for me,
it was like, I'm waiting for you to surrender. I'm
waiting for you to stop trying to do it all
on your own. I'm waiting for you to let me
come in and help you.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
So let me say this. I think it can be
for you in that moment, because you were such a
driven person, God was waiting on you. Sometimes we're waiting
on God in some ways, right, And that's a good
thing to pray, because the best thing you could pray
out of this, well, there's two things I think you
could pray out of a conversation like this, whether you're
trying to figure it out or you're in the middle.
(29:12):
One thing you can pray is God, help me unlearn
anything I've learned it's not from you. Whatever you picked
it up, however you picked it up if it wasn't
from him. Because it's like if someone in my family
was to say, say my kids were to or my
wife was to go tell someone that I said something
that I didn't say, he'd be very frustrated, right the
same way God feels when he goes, oh, well God
(29:34):
said this or God did that. But we've never actually
met with him to actually know what he says, and
so sometimes we need to hear it from him first.
And the good thing you can pray is God, help
me unlearn anything I've learned it's not from you, so
that I can actually hear it from you. And then
the other thing to pray is God, am I waiting
on you or you waiting on me?
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Such a good question?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Those are great. That's the best prayer you can pray,
because then you'll know I'm in neutral and need to
put into drive or no, this is just a season
of waiting. And I can tell you my life how
many seasons I've been in waiting on the Lord and
how many times I was praying and using it as
an excuse to not do the thing God wanted me
to do, and he was actually waiting on me.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
So as you were saying this, you know, one thing
that came to my mind was this idea of even
just viewing this conversation through our human eyes, but then
also needing spiritual eyes to really receive this. And part
of it is the only like the transformation occurs when
you take on these spiritual eyes. So again, for these
action takers, these high level thinkers, success driven people, very
(30:36):
logic seeking people, what do you say about putting on
spiritual eyes in that process? And just again, I know
it's a surrender process and it's faith, you know, but
like in your version of what it would it look
like to look through the spiritual lens of this conversation
of receiving love, receiving worthiness.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Some people just have the go like I gotta go,
I'm go set ready, right like I'm just I'm taking off.
I'm going to make it happen. I've always made it happen.
I'm the type of person that's never gonna quit. You
can't get me down. Everything's you know, half, it's half full,
and even more, it's always that and you pride yourself
on never quitting, and the thing that you have to
(31:16):
get to the end of yourself with is to decide
is it working again? Going back to that thing, but
realizing that the whole thing of faith is you'll spend
your life surrendering more than you'll actually spend your life doing.
It's surrendering your own mindset. It's surrendering to someone that's
bigger than you, that's greater than you, that loves you.
(31:38):
Like all of these things, it's a surrender, and surrender
so hard. But that that is the biggest thing, is
somehow going I don't know how that could be the
great place to start. I don't know how to surrender
because even that verse that says that God knows what
we need before we ask that issues made me so
mad because I'm like, if he knows, why am I
(31:59):
having to ask? But what I realize is that versus
saying is God, you know what I don't know? Will
you make me aware of what I need to know?
And that's a great thing. If you don't know how
to surrender, there's the prayer. I don't know how to surrender.
I've never surrendered. I've used my entire life to perform.
(32:20):
What do you mean my performance isn't going to work.
It doesn't mean it doesn't work. It just needs to
be put in the right perspective. I'm telling you you
and I've done freedom prayer. In my freedom prayer, my
first three freedom prayers that I did, the conversation at
some point in my freedom prayer was hey, Ketrick, could
we ask the Lord if we could put your performance
(32:42):
over to this side and just think it. Okay, that
may sound weird for some of you that are believers
or whatever. Trust me, it's an amazing thing and it's awesome.
But for three prayer times, I was not ready to
give up performance. So every time the Lord had to
remove it out of the way for me to deal
with some things that he wanted to deal with. It
(33:03):
wasn't until my fourth freedom prayer that I was actually
ready to What I used as a defense was performance
all of my life. So when I was able to
set that down as performance and say, this has been
the thing that's defended me all my life, but it's
not working because my performance in that season of life.
(33:25):
This last year, if you would have known me a
year ago from this podcast, I had anxiety out the
roof because my performance wasn't working anymore and I had
to come to the end of myself. What didn't mean
I wasn't a believer. It just meant I was using
performance to defend my life instead of allowing Jesus to
(33:47):
be my defender. And once I gave that away, he
then showed me where that started, where the root of
it was, where it started in my life, way back
when I was a kid, when I didn't even know
that the enemy was there. That he he showed me
where it was. And then from there he gave me
some things that I needed. When I was ten, he
(34:08):
grew me up. That's what happens for all of us.
There's this little kid in us. There's a little girl
in you and a little boy and me that got
stunned way back here in some way because we traded
that life for a truth. And then that little kid,
even though I grew in age, was still in me.
And it wasn't until I was able to allow Jesus
(34:30):
into that place that he grew me to the age
that I am today. And that's what happens. But you
have to get to a place of going. I'm trying
to defend my life with this, I have all my
life and it's worked. Listen, I need you to understand.
It's okay. It's worked really well until it doesn't. And
if it doesn't, then don't defend it anymore. Go find
(34:51):
what it is that actually works. And what I feel
like I found is Jesus.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Wow. And that in itself was such a surrender. And
it's a full circle story because when we are in
that performance perfecting, pleasing mindset, it becomes an identity. It's like, oh,
I'll show the world how smart I am, how capable
I am, how funny I am, what a great performer
I am, And it becomes our identity and that becomes
rooted so much more deeply than the true identity being
embedded in Christ.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
And everything whatever we surrender to, everything about that, everything
else can be taken from us. Yeah, Jesus is the
only thing we can surrender to that can't be taken
from us. And that's the security. Is everything else, the
things you just you just you just named off, they
can all be taken from me. And what does it
look like to be secure? It looks like putting your
(35:38):
hope and your identity and something that can't be taken
from you.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yeah, and when we when we add up that list,
a lot of us, a lot of our security are
our worth is external. It can be taken away in
a moment. Wow. So now you see why I want
to catch it to come on here, and there's so
much more goodness within him that we're going to have
you back on future episodes. But beyond the scope of
this worthiness identity conversation, just share a little bit about
(36:02):
who you are and what you're purposeful about, and then
also where people can find you.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah. So obviously I started the Team Dream Center and
that's what I do. I'm the director there and the
founder of the Teen Dream Center and the pastor there.
But also I travel and speak and so I've traveled.
You can go to Ketric dot TV and I travel
at youth events, camps, retreats, churches, big church. I still
call it even though these days, but I travel around
and do events and all of those things as well.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
Amazing, Well, you will have him back. He's on the
Spiritual Advisory Committee here on What's God Got to Do
with It or the Godpod, So everything has to go
through the Ketric filter from now on. I'm just calling
it out a little bit awesome. Well, thank you so
much for your time, thank you for being here, sign
an off here for What's God Got to Do with It?
And we'll see you next time. Bye.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
We'll be back with more What's God Got to Do
with It?
Speaker 3 (36:51):
But in the meantime, I would definitely love to hear
from you, so just tell me where you are in
your story or maybe what questions you have. Where do
you feel you need clarity or support or wisdom in
your own journey. I definitely want to hear from you,
So head on over to What's God Got to Do
with It? Dot com and scroll down to the form
(37:12):
to share your thoughts, your questions, your.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
Feedback, and you can do that instantly. So What's God
Got to Do with It?
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Dot com?
Speaker 4 (37:19):
You'll find all the ways to do that.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
And if you like this podcast and want to hear more,
go ahead and follow, like, and subscribe wherever you listen
to podcasts to get your weekly dose of What's God
Got to Do with It?
Speaker 4 (37:32):
New episodes drop every single.
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Tuesday, and while you're there, be sure to rate and
review to show your support. It really means so much.
What's God Got to Do With It? Is an iHeartRadio
podcast on the Amy Brown Podcast Network. It's written and
hosted by meek Leanne Ellington, Executive produced by Elizabeth Fozio,
post production and editing by Houston Tilley, and original music
(37:56):
written by Cheryl Stark and produced by Adam Stark. Yeah.
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
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Amy Brown
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