Need Therapy? You're NOT Alone. (The 5th Thing)

Today's 5th thing (a bonus episode) is a little different than usual. Instead of sharing or answering 4 emails...Amy just tackled a subject she gets a lot of emails about...THERAPY. Licensed therapist, @kat.defatta, joins Amy and they talk about: the rise in people going to therapy because of 2020, lifting the stigma of therapy, things to do if you can't afford therapy, and how to best go about finding a therapist. 

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Happy Tuesday. Welcome to the Fifth Thing. This is the
bonus episode of the four Things podcast, where I typically
share emails that you've sent in, but today's episode is
a little different than usual. Instead of going over for emails,
I just decided to talk about a subject that I
get a lot of emails about, which is therapy. Licensed
therapist Katherine ne Fatah is on with me and we

(00:26):
talk about the rise in people going to therapy because
of lifting the stigma of therapy, things you can do
if you can't afford therapy, and how to best go
about finding a therapist. Now, this was originally something I
recorded with Cat as a thing for the Thursday episodes,
but I really do get so many emails regarding this topic,

(00:50):
and so I thought, well, I'm just gonna put this
as a bonus episode as something that you can listen
to isolated. It's focusing on therapy and should hopefully help
answer some questions that you have or if anything, just
make you feel less alone. But before we get into that,
I always start off Tuesday episodes with a quote, and
today's is from my friend's Sunday. I'm sharing something that

(01:11):
she texted me that her therapist told her. So when
she sent it to me over text, I thought, Oh,
I'm just gonna grab this and make this my little
quote for today because it's perfect. She didn't know I
was going to be quoting it here. It's not why
she sent it to me, but I think that you
might appreciate it. She said, My therapist always tells me
to think of emotions like logs down a river. You

(01:33):
see them, acknowledge them, and let them continue down the river.
That simple metaphor has helped me so much. So thank
you Sunday for that metaphor. And it really is funny
that she texted that to me just before I was
about to record this intro. It really was perfect timing.
So thankful for her therapist sharing that with her. And

(01:55):
I want to pass it along to you because you
two might be dealing with a lot of emotions that
you need to knowledge and then send them on down
the river. And then shout out to Sundy, who owns
the Mocking Bird Shop little boutique in downtown Southern Pines,
North Carolina. So if you're ever in the Southern Pines area,
which is close to Pinehurst or Fort Bragg, then you

(02:16):
have to go to her. Shop because it's adorable. All right, Well,
let's get into my chat with Cat about therapy and
how if you're needing it more than ever right now,
you are not alone enjoy Okay. I brought in an
expert for this thing, Cat to FATA licensed therapist host
from podcast You Need Therapy, because I saw a headline

(02:36):
that one in six Americans entered therapy for the first
time in so we all know that was stressful, is
already stressful, and it's only been three weeks, but that
was according to a new study. But I think that
we may be underestimated just how bad it was because
one in six that's a lot. It's a lot. It's

(02:58):
not just therapy, it's therapy for the first time. So
that means they finally were like, Okay, this got me,
I'm going to therapy. Yeah, And that's I think what
I was going to say is it's not even that
we didn't realize it was so bad. It's that it
is to the point where people are like, I can't
put this off anymore, Like I've got to do something. Yeah.
The majority of people listed COVID nineteen as the catalyst

(03:18):
for them seeking treatment. And then also it was a
big year for medications. So the research also found that
of patients began taking medication for mental health issues for
the first time ever. Let think about how anxious everybody is,
and then the level of depression because people are stuck
at home, they're not with people, We're not having conversations

(03:40):
live face to face as much, we're not getting that interaction.
Everybody's scared about what's going to happen. So the amount
of anxiety and just depression that I have even seen,
and even in clients that like that was not their thing,
has been crazy to watch. Over the past year. I'm
reading Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, which is an

(04:01):
awesome book written by a therapist where she's sharing stories, which,
by the way, how is she allowed to share these stories?
Please break it down for me and quickly I'll just
tell people, yes, you should read it. We don't have
It's my one of my favorite books. If you're thinking
right now, should I read it? Yes you should if
you're looking for a new book, and you could even

(04:22):
download it on audible listen to it. I actually have
the physical copy and the audible, so sometimes I go
back and forth. The other night, I was so I
wanted to read because I want it for my brain
to keep me sharp. You know. Uh, it's it's an exercise.
But I was just having a moment where ASSO just
wanted to read, but I wanted someone to read to me.
So is this lame? I turned on my audible app

(04:44):
and then I flipped the exact page that it was playing,
so I had the audio going and I read it
with my eyeballs. I love that. That's like how it
wasn't like fifth grade like popcorn reading. So that was
me at thirty nine reading to myself with audio thing.
But it's such a great book. But she shares stories

(05:06):
from her office, so from her patients lives, But then
she also had a life moment, something that sent her
not COVID nineteen, but sent her to therapy. So then
she shares what it was like for her being on
the other side of the couch and what her things
her therapists would say in their interactions. So it's this
nice back and forth of like being the therapist and

(05:28):
then being the patient. What do you call your patient clients? Client?
And then being a client. I guess you're a patient
if you is that a psychiatrist? Now I think a
lot of people might say patient, I just say client.
Patient seems like a hospital to Okay. True, So she
goes back and forth. But my main question to you
as a therapist is how is she allowed to tell
stories from the office. She probably one got consent from

(05:52):
them and any identifying information she would have changed. So
the essence of who they are and the essence of
their story is there, but it's not the same exact story.
Because I'm I'm really I'm not done with the book yet,
but I'm really invested in one of the He's not
even a character because he is real, but I guess
his name has been changed. But John, Yeah, I'm assuming
that like the show, that he like all of the

(06:14):
stuff that she's saying is true. The like the storyline.
So John worked as a big time TV producer on
some huge show that was a week night show. But
I don't know, and it's a true story. But at
first you don't like him. Then this is kind of
like just makes you think of people in general when

(06:35):
you're not looking at the behavior and you start to
look at the emotion or the hurt behind it, right,
And so it's a beautiful example of maybe just even
viewing a coworker or a stranger that's having a bad day,
or that you have a weird interaction with, or a
friend or a family member. It's like, doesn't mean you
have to just be there for everybody by any means,

(06:57):
but you can have more empathy because at first this
guy just seems like a jerk, but then as things
start to open up in therapy, you realize, well, he's
not like, he's got some hurts and this is why
he's doing this behavior, and if he could just work
through it, he'll come out on the other side. So
I'm kind of rooting for John because he's not a

(07:20):
likable character, and there's we all have people that aren't likable,
and like, I work with people that might not be likable.
But one of the things that I believe about everybody
is everybody has icky stuff about them, like that turns
us off or just we don't like or that isn't
necessarily quote unquote good, But everybody does have good about
them too. And as a therapist, and I think as humans,

(07:41):
we should all look to see Okay, we we can
point out and pick and feel the ick parts, but
we also have to find the redeeming qualities of people
and love them for those redeeming qualities rather than hate
them for the ones with the things we don't like.
And that's what she does as a therapist with that
character is she's like, I'm gonna find the redeeming qualities

(08:01):
because I know this person isn't a quote bad person,
but it's interesting to how you get her perspective as
a therapist. So now I'm looking at you like thinking
sometimes when you're in the chair, she's just honest that
sometimes her clients are saying something and inside her head
she wants to scream at them or be like, don't
do that. You Oh, that's the stupidest thing ever. But

(08:24):
then professionally, you know your role in your lane and
your place. But there's got to be times where things
are just kind of unraveling. But you're not their savior.
You can and it doesn't create change in people. If
we just tell them what to do all day exactly,
then they're going to rely on us for the rest
of our lives. Which there's a character in that book
that's a therapist, and I said savior like very loosely,

(08:46):
just because people can view their therapists in that way
of like I do whatever you say, and really we're
our own people and we've got to put in the work.
And I'm thankful to see that a lot of people
are going to therapy, but also it breaks my heart
because it just means that there's more hurting. But I
think they're the hurt was probably there for a lot
of people, but what did was bring it to the surface, right.

(09:09):
And you know, I've had a hard time with that
too because as a therapist, I started getting all of
these inquiries and emails and phone calls. And that's great
from like a business standpoint, sure, and it's also great
because I want to help people. But it broke my
heart too of like, oh my gosh, I'm not the
only thing. All of these therapists, all my friends who

(09:30):
are all we all have wait lists and we're trying
to shove more people in. But then we have to
find the balance between I can't see thirty people in
a week, else I'll be good to nobody. And so yeah,
it's great because I think people are awake now and
and they're getting help for things and some people, I
believe a lot of us have to reach our bottom
before we will reach out for help, and that is awesome,

(09:51):
but it's also sad that there's that many people that
are hurting in the world right, which is back to
my original why I even brought up you should talk
to someone was just thinking of the weight you as
a therapist and all therapists out there have to carry
everybody's burdens all the time or not, like that's just
been a therapist thing. Like I don't know how sometimes
you go home at night and shut off all the

(10:14):
feelings that had to be felt, because now I even
see how through the book how invested you become in
these people. But again, it's your passion and you were
trained in boundaries. There's boundaries, yes, So the reason why

(10:38):
I also wanted to bring this up is because I
want you to know that if you're thinking about getting therapy,
that it's okay and you should do it. If there's
anything inside of you that is thinking, there's a stigma
attached to it, or your family raised you a certain
way where that's not something that you do, or emotions
are off limits and what like, the work can be

(11:00):
done and there can be healing, and there's hope. There's hope,
and you don't need to worry about the judgment or
shame from anybody else. I know that might be hard
because it's easy for me to say because my family
doesn't care. They're like, oh yeah, therapies is great, blah
blah blah. But some people come from a place where
it's like uh no, or you may have a spouse
it's like Nope, not going to go. And yeah, I
want you to know that there's hope. And then too,

(11:22):
if therapy is not something you can do financially, or
you don't have access to it, or you're still trying
to dip your toe in the water, there's books that
might be out there pertaining to what you're going through.
Cat has a podcast called You Need Therapy. There's probably
other related type podcasts that you could listen to where
you can consume helpful information that can help at least

(11:45):
get you going in that direction. Whatever your roadblock is
for you as to why you can't do it, because
I get it, it's not attainable for everybody. Yes, just
to all of that, I am somebody who's always said
there doesn't have to be somebody wrong with you to
go to therapy. I think in the older generations, therapy
was looked at as like, oh my gosh, like they

(12:06):
must have some chaos or something horribly wrong with them
to go to therapy, and that's just not true. There's
everyday people that you would think that their lives are
perfect or in therapy. You don't even have to have
a mental illness to go to therapy. You can just
go because you want, because therapy is about getting to
know who you are and finding out how to have
freedom and being that person. So I do want to
say that to the people who are like, oh, I

(12:27):
also have wanted to reach out to but like it
feels bad or wrong, it's not. I think that asking
for help is probably the most courageous thing you could do.
And the world is saying like, I can't do this
on my own, And then what advice do you have
for people when they are trying to We have people
all across the country listening. So do you just look
at yelp reviews or so there's okay. There's two parts

(12:49):
of this, because one is if I do have the means,
whether that's through insurance or whether that's through just like
I can pay for therapy. If if that's something that's
available to me, then the best thing to do is
is if you know anybody who's been to therapy before,
ask them, like, I think word of mouth, because therapy
so relational. It is so relational, and so if you
trust somebody who you know who's gone to therapy, ask

(13:10):
them like, do you like your therapist, would she have
any recommendations for somebody? Does she have any space open?
And don't worry about if your friend goes. I mean,
I'm assuming that it's going to be an ethical therapist.
Like I've shared therapist before with friends and never had
an issue. I'm sure sometimes I don't know, depending on
if friends stuff comes up, it might be awkward for
the therapist, but the therapist never said anything. I mean,

(13:33):
therapist basically denies the fact. Similar to our family doctor,
like that I would see my mom when she was
sick or my anything. He'd be like, I don't I
don't know what you're talking about. And I'm like, no,
I know, you were just with my mom and he's like,
I can either confirm or not. And so that's also
how the therapist thing would work. So if your friend
does have a good one, I don't think you would

(13:55):
be like, oh no, I could never go to my
friend's therapist, because what is the call, So it pens
like I would never hit there's hippa, Yes, but I
would never see like two people that live together, because
it can get messy. I will say that, yes, I
would never see roommates or even I'm on a couple
of therapists, but I would never see a husband and
a wife as my individual clients. You would either do

(14:15):
couples starting out together would be a couple and the
couple is the client or I'm seeing the wife. Some
people might operate differently, but that's how I am. So
you can ask word of mouth. You can go to
something called Psychology Today, which is a website and you
can just google your area, what you are struggling with,
and things will pop up and you can read their bios.
I will say anybody can say they work with anything

(14:36):
on that website. So a lot of people just click
all the boxes, so be careful. Maybe go to their
website and read their actual websites. See if they are
any reviews on Google. A therapist that specializes in something,
and then like hats specializes in eating disorders. So and
then also once you schedule a session and you go,
like if you go a couple of times and you

(14:57):
don't mash with your therapist, that's okay. You can tell
them that and they can give you referrals for somebody
who might meet your needs better and where not. If
you're a good therapist your feelings are, that's fine. If
for you it's like it's not me. The other thing
is if therapy is not something that is available to
you right now for whatever reason. There are plenty of
podcasts that are good. I would look for one with

(15:18):
a licensed therapist, because anybody can have a self help podcasts.
And by the way, I would like to say that
I don't like to clash. I'm like, mm, yeah, they can.
And I'm thinking some people might be like, oh, well, Amy,
you think you're a self help podcast and I don't.
But you bring experts on you that you're so good
at that well. But sometimes I do feel like I

(15:39):
put advice out there again in the infancy of the podcast,
which is not that old. But I would say in
the first year I probably did some unhealthy things, probably
more body and food and wise that I wasn't aware
of because I was in a different place. And now
that I'm in recovery for my disordered eating, and I'm
very aware of kind of trigger things. I don't want

(16:01):
to be a part of that culture anymore. But also
I do want to bring helpful tools and information. But yes,
I try to be a platform where I bring on
the experts. I'm not on here preaching to you, or
if I share something with you, it's something that I
have come across that was helpful to me that I
think might be helpful to you, but in no way
to I think. I don't know. I just to say that,

(16:25):
and I'm not looking for like, but I want to
say it affirmation, validation. I want to say I think
that you do a great job on here and outweigh
staying in your lane. I think you do a fabulous
job when you answer questions and you answer your emails.
You've asked me to answer questions or you've asked other
people to answer questions because you're like, this is not
my lane. I need help with this. So I think

(16:46):
that it's okay to start a podcast. I want to
help people. I wish we had more people doing that.
But I'm just saying if you're looking for specific you
don't have a podcast for anxiety, and you're just like oh,
I read this article on anxiety. You might have read
an article on anxiety and you shared on four things,
but it's not the whole platform of it. And even
without way that, I would never co host it without like,
Lisa's a registered dietician and has made it her life

(17:08):
submission to be in that space. So I do that
because I feel comfortable doing that because I have an
expert as a co host. And then even this Saturday,
Lisa isn't on it, but you joined me as the
co host for it because I thought, again, I just
don't feel like I should do it alone. I need
to have an expert join me to talk about celebrities

(17:29):
and people in the public eye and how we need
to stop looking to them for what we should look like.
Even though I feel equipped to talk about that because
I've walked through that, I've done that to myself and
then projected it onto others, but I still wanted to
have you as an expert with me, which I love. Yeah,
So that'll be on Saturday's episode of Outweigh, the podcast

(17:50):
we have on disordered eating, which a new episode goes
up every Saturday. So if you want to subscribe to that,
because maybe your thing that you need help with is food,
embody image stuff. Maybe it's addiction, maybe it's something else.
What were you saying about addiction before we hit recording
that something about just a crazy year of people going

(18:10):
to Uh, Well, I was telling you when I was
looking at that article that Yeah, this year, I've never
sent as many clients or referred as many clients to
residential treatment, whether it was for their eating disorder or
addiction or depression, than I did in that year. Ever,
And I've been working in this field for eight years

(18:30):
and this was by far. I've referred more people that
have gone this year, but even the people that have
actually gone, it's hard to get somebody to go to treatment.
Crazy I did. I mean, but good for them, Good
for them for doing it, because that's really good for
them at all. And if you're someone that might be
in that position, like we want to encourage you if
that's the next step for you. I want to like

(18:51):
just lift the shame off of like asking for help,
no matter how big of the ask it is, whether
it's once a week therapy, once a month therapy, or
a thirty day treatment, Like there's should be no shame,
which I feel like we still have some of that,
so thank you for being a part of lifting the shame,

(19:13):
and y'all can reach out to Cat per Instagram is
at cat ka t dot de fata d e f
A T t A. There you go. Okay, Well, thank
you Cat, and we'll see you next time. You join
me when I need an expert in therapy