January 26, 2023 • 30 mins
What are red flags in a relationship? They’re warning signs that there might be unhealthy patterns/behaviors between you and your partner or someone else. Amy and her friend Cryo Kat (Katherine Cox) go over 13 different red flags, yellow flags vs. red flags, and how to approach red flags in a relationship. Cryo Kat has a very personal story of how multiple red flags were right in front of her face and she didn’t/couldn’t even see them at the time…so much so that she married the guy. They have since gotten divorced, so this conversation will hopefully spare others from getting into a similar situation + create awareness + also encourage some self-reflection (because maybe we are a red flag, not someone else!!!)
And remember: your body (energy) will tell you before your brain will about how you’re connecting with someone…you just have to listen!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Okay, cassup, little food for you so life. Oh it's pretty,
but it's pretty beautiful than laugh for a little month.
(00:25):
Tighten up, you're kicking with four Brown Happy Thursday, four
Things Amy Here and back by popular demand is my
friend Catherine Cox, a k a. Cry O Cat, Hello, Hello,
Happy Thursday, which she was on early to mid December
(00:45):
last year's episode four seven. And we know it's four
seven because Cat had every single friend and family member
that she has listened to the episode. I sure did,
which I really appreciate the downloads. You're welcome, so I
would hear he would be like, yeah, have you listened
to this yet? Episode four of seven? That and Liken subscribe.
She's my new PR person, but she's called Cryo Cat
(01:07):
because Therapy Cat co hosts The Fifth Thing with me
on Tuesdays. So I just trying to keep everybody straight
with all the cats in my life and around my house.
Now there's Therapy Cat and there's Cryo Cat. But we're
talking red flags today. Red flags because well Cat has
been married a couple of times ish and a book
(01:30):
that she read before was this Before Your Last Tripped
down the Old. So I took one real seriously, and
you can tell by the notes in the book that
I wasn't playing around like this was gonna be it.
So the book is called Ready to Wed Twelve Ways
to Start a Marriage You'll Love, and it's a focus
on the family book. So on the back it says,
(01:50):
in planning for the big day, are you also preparing
for a marriage you'll love? And so since this was
your second marriage, like you said, you're like, I'm gonna mark.
I'm not much of a reader. I'm not much one
to do homework, but you see that book. I took
it very seriously, did all the tests, did all the practices.
(02:11):
What I think is ironic is that the little post
it tabs that you used to earmark each page they
are read and I did not even mean to do that.
And may I tell you red flag number one, though,
is that he didn't even crack his book. Open him
one to know. His father bought us those books. So
we each got a copy. Right, that's my copy, and
(02:33):
that's why it's all marked up. So red flag number
one whom we don't crack a book? And then you've
got their little posted tabs that she put on the book.
I was trying to make a sound on the microphone
with the tabs. I mean, I can't get over the
irony that they're red and that at the moment you
weren't even really seeing them as red flags. You're just like, oh,
mark this, we need to walk on it, Mark this,
(02:54):
we need to work on it. And then now it
is literally a visual of red flags in your relationship.
And I mean I think that there can be red
flags that show up in romantic relationships, friendships, work relationships.
So while we're talking about ready to wed, you can
try to be on the lookout for red flags in
all kinds of relationships that aren't gonna serve you well.
(03:18):
And I looked up a list of the thirteen most
common red flags, so I'll just go through them, and
then you can be like, yeap, check with this person
or with any Well, sure, let's just stick with this person,
since that's what this book was. But then also this
will just help people. Friends, you can be listening along
(03:39):
and take inventory of your own relationship and see if
any of this is popping up. And this doesn't mean
that your relationship is not going to work out at all.
This just means let's let's assess, yes, and potentially put
in the work to figure it out. And if your
partner is willing to look at it, and you may
(04:01):
even be like, oh shoot, I'm the one that does that,
you may recognize a red flag within yourself, which I
think is amazing self awareness. So pat on the backs
to you. How do you say that? Pats on the
back to you? Okay, Overly controlling behavior check. But sometimes
I feel like I can be a little bit of
a control phrase and then I'm like, shoot, red flag
on me. Well, Overly controlling behavior is a common red flag.
(04:24):
People that try to control your movements, your decisions, or
beliefs are more concerned about what they want than what
is best for you. In a healthy relationship, there's compromise
and understanding around differences. Not one person controls the other
person's actions. This is from better up dot com. By
the way, That's where I'm pulling all this in case
you want to go and print this out. Lack of trust.
(04:45):
So trust is an important foundation in any healthy relationship.
A major sign of an unstable relationship is when partners, friends, colleagues,
or family members distrust you. Of course, we all have
doubts sometimes, but they shouldn't stop us from trusting the
people in our lives to do the right thing. Healthy
relationships require trust on both sides. Noah, okay, so that's
you didn't know. No red flag on that one. Feeling
(05:09):
low self esteem check check check. If people close to
you should build you up, not break you down. When
you love someone, you are committed to supporting and uplifting them.
If you do not feel that support from your partner, family,
or friends, something needs to change. Check check. So feeling
low self esteem, that's that one. Physical emotional or mental abuse,
(05:32):
which obviously if you have any of that going on,
I hope that you're able to realize it and get
the proper help, Especially if it's physical abuse. I think
that's easier to notice if it's happening to you than
emotional abuse, because sometimes that takes a minute to register,
like oh wow, the way they said that, or how
they said that, or the repeated ways in which they
(05:53):
said that. Mentally, it can really really mess with you. Yeah,
it might overtie. Take time for these things to build
build old and until you realize, oh my gosh, what
is this, what's happening to my mental state? My emotions?
Everything like that, but obviously physical boom right there. It's
an undeniable red flame, right and sadly it takes people
(06:14):
they have to try seven times on average before they
can extract themselves from those situations. Okay, well, abuse is
never an acceptable thing, so hopefully if anyone's dealing with that,
they can get help. Substance abuse, that's a clear red flag.
It indicates that a person struggles with impulse control and
self destructive habits. Depending on the substance. Any relationship can
(06:35):
quickly turn toxic if addiction is present. With that said,
substance abuse is an illness and your loved one might
need help, which you and I both understand that for sure.
If you are someone you know is struggling, definitely reach
out for help on that one as well. So do
I comment on this check check, check, check again. On
both sides. I have been the substance abuse user, and
(06:58):
then I've been ober and then dealt with people with
substance Yes like functioning. Yes to acknowledge you cat and
all of your hard work. You just celebrated your twelfth,
your sobriety birthday, so twelve years totally sober and your
thirty three now ironically when people start drinking when you
(07:22):
got sober, which is like my typical personalities like oh
we're allowed to now? No thanks, thanks, but I'm good.
I've already you know, I was in rehab by the
time I was seventeen, Like we're done here, then you're
done that. Uh. Narcissism is another thing to look out for.
Narcissistic personality disorder as a mental condition that indicates self
(07:45):
obsession a misplaced sense of importance. Narcissists believe that the
world revolves around them, and if anybody threatens this belief,
turmoil and chaos tend to follow. Being emotionally involved with
a narcissist ego driven person can be exhausting and traumatizing.
Their needs will always be considered more important than yours.
Chack anger management issues. If someone you were close to
(08:10):
has anger management issues, you might feel threatened or unsafe
during conflict. Lack of emotional regulation is a definite red
flag for any relationship. We all should feel comfortable enough
with a partner of friend to tackle difficult subjects without
fearing for our safety. Anyone who uses anger as intimidation
(08:30):
is toxic. That reminds me like I told you about
the book. The common theme is that I never felt
safe to speak on anything. There are at least probably
three or four flags that speak to that. And if
you can't feel safe to share with someone, just leave. Honestly,
(08:50):
sometimes it's hard to I know, I know, yeah, yeah,
I mean it took me a good amount of time,
but I just or start putting the things in motion
or having conversations people that might be able to help
you get out. I did not seek out therapy. I
have a good circle, like I have great friends who
are therapists. But um, I should have sought better help
(09:12):
during the time instead of I shoved a lot of
things down and then I just should have done the
cry for help, you know. Yeah, well, I think sometimes
we just feel like, oh I can manage this myself,
or oh I've got this, or I don't want to
burden people, or I'll just figure this out. But when
you're having panic attacks and things and trimmers and your
head is shaking uncontrollably, I mean, that's your body giving
(09:33):
you flags. It's yeah, and that was the It's something's
got to change. Let's get out all codependency, which codependency
can be very interesting to dive into. If you feel
like you might have any codependency in your life, I
would recommend the book by a Melanie Beaty Codependent No More.
But codependency and the ensuing emotional labor might not always
(09:57):
present themselves as toxic, but codependence and relationships can be
a pervasive pattern that causes issues such as emotional exhaustion
and increasing mental load. Codependency or relationship addiction happens when
two people rely on each other exclusively for emotional, psychological,
and even physical support. This alienates them from other relationships
(10:21):
and constunt personal growth. Jack I would say, I've definitely
dealt with that. It's complicated. I think I've been codependent,
and then I think I've had people be codependent of me.
Does that make sense? Yeah? But no more? All right.
(10:47):
Inability to resolve conflict, people that avoid conflict might think
they are protecting the relationship from ruin, but in the
end it only results in long winded passive aggression. As
uncomfortable as it can be, embracing constructive conflict is a
crucial element of all relationships. Without productive conflict, serious matters
(11:07):
can never be resolved. This can lead to resentment and
wasted energy. Yes, that's exactly what I was about to say.
I hear resentment, resentment, resentment, constant jealousy. Did you ever
deal with it without a new flag? That's another line? Yeah, Yeah,
for sure. It is natural to feel jealous when your
partner or friend is spending a lot of time with others. However,
(11:27):
that is not an excuse to let it cloud your judgment.
Someone who is constantly jealous of your connection with others
cares more about what they want than your happiness. I
would say that I definitely spent less time with certain
friends just to appease your partner. Yeah, that's a bummer again,
No more like we're gonna keep our our healthy And
(11:50):
now I know everything felt dysfunctional for my entire life
that I didn't really know what was right until about
maybe the last three years. I finally have all this clarity.
So no more forcing all this discomfort. Um Like our
relationship is so easy, breezy. It makes me think about
because I know that you've had different disordered eating stuff
(12:11):
and body image things, and it makes me think about
how whenever I had restricted for so long and dieted
and did so many different things that I didn't understand
my hunger cues, Like, I didn't understand my boy. I
didn't know what that I like, I don't know what
is it like to be hungry because I was either
under eating or overeating, So I didn't know my own self.
(12:33):
And I feel like that's what you're saying, and that
you had so much dysfunction. And I had been operating
that way with my body since I was a teenager,
and so as an adult trying to learn when I'm
hungry and when I'm not and what that means. So
for you, as an adult, you were learning what's healthy,
what's dysfunctional, what's not. Very similar. Yeah, And I think
a lot of times we are drawn to people similar
(12:57):
to us or our unhealed wounds, and in this situation,
I mean, it was all just wounded childhood, let's say.
So I feel like to a big thing in having
healthy relationships is looking internal. So I know we're talking
about red flags and what to look out for in
other people, but you know, we did say you might
see some of the stuff popping up in yourself, But
(13:18):
then it's like, what can we heal within ourselves? That way,
you give yourself the opportunity to find a healthy relationship,
because if you're not willing to do the work and
look inward and try to heal some of that stuff,
it's going to keep popping up from relationship to relationship,
all right. Next thing on the list is gas lighting.
That's a common tactic of manipulation. It's a form of
(13:41):
emotional abuse in which the manipulator will make you question
your own sanity or judgments. Victims of gas lighting are
made to feel guilty regardless of whether or not they
did anything wrong. Gaslighting is a clear red flag in
any relationship. Yes, yes, yes, And I feel so bad
for anybody dealing with that. So a narcissist is going
(14:01):
to gaslight, right, I mean typically, And so what is
sad about that is a narcissist will pick someone with
low self esteem. So if we already have these kind
of subconscious, you know, low self esteem, bad thoughts about ourselves,
and they find out, they will take that and expand
it bigger than you can ever imagine, and then you
(14:23):
are stuck in this vicious cycle. Moving out of this
situation took months and months and months for me to
walk into a mall like a normal person, feeling worthy
things like that, knowing that you deserve good. Yeah, I
work hard and I deserve to spend my dollar on myself. Right,
So that's why you used walking to uh into a
(14:44):
mall as an example, because you might want to buy
something for yourself. And for a long time I felt
like I didn't deserve anything. I didn't deserve to spend
money or have anything, and I was told I didn't
bring anything to the table. I just worry for people.
But like I know, I've got a tough mind, So
I really worry though about anybody that isn't in that space.
(15:07):
What could happen to them? Yeah? I mean you mentioned
your strong mind, and me knowing the version of you
now which I've been friends with you for two years now,
I do see you as this strong, confident, independent, I
take care of myself, great mom, hard worker. I don't
even know that I can imagine that version of you
(15:28):
that would be scared to walk into them all right.
And here's what's sad, though, is we've talked before about
that year old me who was so confident and had
it like I never thought I would crash again in life,
and then unfortunately being drawn to those unhealed wounds and
people with all these red flags earth shattering again. So
(15:49):
went from loving life, loving myself to then boom, completely
falling off. And I told you the other day as well.
I went through a phase of I was constantly I'm sorry,
I'm sorry if I did anything to inconvenient someone or
in their way, this and that. It was. I was
always jumpy and apologizing, like I didn't deserve to share
this space. But I think even then a lot of
(16:12):
people would look at me and think, and they would
never think, which is to why I like, it's important
to talk to people and share what you're going through
because we don't know. I can put on a heck
of a game face and a lot of people out
there can. But I think that's why we all do
need to practice honest conversations and what might be going on.
And even I think or maybe you were having a
(16:36):
rough time and you you just spilled it to me,
and I was like, oh my gosh. Well, first of all,
wasn't honor that you. You know, I felt comfortable enough,
but you shared things that I'm like, oh, well, Amy,
I grew up like this, like you know, we can
connect on this, we can heal from this. Yeah, I mean,
and that gave me comfort and then too, I'm even
thinking of a text message you sent me the other day.
(16:57):
It was just like a simple like hey, you know,
how's your day whatever? And you reply back, this is
going on and I'm having about a thousand different emotions
and I need to cry at some point and I
don't really know. And I was like okay. And then
I met up with you later and I was like, okay,
what do we need to do. Do we need to cry?
Do we need to talk about this? Like what emotions
do we need to sort through? Because it's okay to
have them all and field them all and let's be
with them and they let's do cryotherapy. And cried though
(17:22):
to me later vegus Nerve, oh, you never cried that night.
I never cried that up. But here's the thing, because
I am worthy of a massage and now I'm in
that headspace if I can go and take care of myself,
I'm gonna have a massage soon. So hopefully that brings
on the tears. My sister gifted me a massage over
Christmas break and I cried. I needed it and I
(17:43):
knew walking to the spot I was crying because I
didn't even know she was gifting gifting it to me,
she just had made an appointment. She said there was
only one available at the hotel we were at because
it was so last minute. And she said, but I
want you to have it. And I thought, no, you
should have it, and she's like, no, you should have it,
and I said, let's cancel it. She said, no, I
think you should go. So I went fully thinking, Okay,
(18:05):
I'm going to take the slot. I'll give in to
her plea for me to go, and then I'll pay
for it. And while I was getting the massage, which
was so relaxing and again just was an emotional release,
I cried on the way there, cried on the table,
and then when I was walking out, I went to
the front desk to pay and she said, oh, while
you were on the table, your sister snuck in and
(18:28):
paid for everything, and then so that I cried again.
It was just the sweetest gesture. And I know that
your mom gifted you this massage for my twelfth birthday,
for your twelve years sober, which was really sweet of her.
And I hope that for you, Like, yeah, I hope
you get on the table and it's not too awkward
and you let it all out. Thank you. I hope
(18:49):
so too. Male massus or female male? Okay, I think
his name is Jeremiah. Do you think it gonna be
awkward crying to Jeremiah. We might have the best time ever.
Or I might sit there and bowl tell them the truth, like, hey,
I need to get some things out. We have a
lot of inflammation and just tears backed up. I'm sure
massage therapists are used to hearing some of people's problems.
(19:12):
Not that people like to talk the whole time. I
don't really, I'm not a talker when I'm getting a
massage done, but I guess there's times where if I
have gotten emotional, I feel the need, especially when I
flip over to be like I'm so sorry that it's
crying and they're like, no, honestly, it happens more than
you would think. And then depending on how close I
end up getting to the person, how many massages I've
had from them, might be how much information they tend
(19:34):
to get right, Because Jeremiah day one, he probably we'll
just see too much, all right. We still have two
more things on the list of red flags. Lack of
(19:54):
emotional intelligence, Emotional intelligence is the ability to perceive and
manage emotions. People with a low level of emotional intelligence
are unable to pick up on your feelings or empathize
with you. This often results in unnecessary conflicts or forms
of manipulation boom. So emotional intelligence is EQ like I QQ,
(20:16):
and I know that there are e Q tests online,
so you could even see where you are. Because I
want to do this and let's report back to each
other figure out if you are emotionally intelligent. I think
I am, which if you're not, that also may not
be your fault. It could be exactly and so I
(20:38):
think there's hope in that you can work on that, right,
I mean, I'm no expert, but I hope. So final
red flag, at least from better up dot Com. Negatively
affecting your relationship with family and friends red flag if
this person is doing that. For many of us, our
family and friends provide an important sense of community. It's
a major red flag if someone in your life is
(21:00):
negatively affecting your relationship with those you love. Healthy relationships
should never come at the cost of other healthy relationships.
Oh my gosh. And then it goes on to talk
about yellow flags versus red flags, which we talk about
yellow flags on the Bobby Bones show. Sometimes it's like
a red flag but less severe. So it's just something
(21:22):
to be aware of. I mean, honestly, if you didn't
have so many little red tabs in this book, if
you just had a few, and then I'd be like, okay, right,
these are yellow and you could work through them and
let's this marriage is gonna last. But the amount of
red dads you have in Ready to Wed, I'm surprised
you even went through with the actual marriage. I am too,
(21:43):
But well, you know, here's the funny part. Didn't I
tell you we never filed the marriage license. I knew
that part. But you you had the had a ceremony.
It was just a whole thing, a lot of trampled
boundaries that you had the party. I had the party
that I didn't want to have, but then I had
to have three dresses because nothing felt right, and then
(22:04):
it's just like lit back up, moonwalk out of this.
You were, I think, from what I get from the
stories you've told me is you just completely threw yourself
into like every little detail to try to make it right.
But like other people, yeah, nothing is good. Enough right,
but also nothing was feeling right with you. You're like,
why do I need three dresses? But it's because you
(22:25):
were feeling so uncomfortable about it all. And I tried
so hard to make it so perfect for other people
because they wanted. I thought, let's be a team player.
You know, I know this is so uncomfortable. I don't
want to do this, but let's lean into the discomfort
make everybody else happy. But at the end of the day,
I'm destroyed. I can't need anything because I've given myself
such stomach issues, and you know, just a team player
(22:48):
makes me think of We were sitting at the kitchen
table the other night and my daughter sash here. I
said to me and Cat, I want to be a player,
and we're like, dang girl. I thought she meant player
with you know, boys or whatever, and she said, no, no, no, no, no, Like,
what's it called a team player? I want to go
(23:09):
with the flow, and I thought we were so cutey
look at you quickly will end with all run through
How to approach red flags in a relationship. Really, it's
best to acknowledge your own needs healthy communication, avoid being
overly emotional about things. That way you're able to be
(23:29):
more direct because sometimes when you and therapy Cat and
I have talked about this a lot, when emotion comes in,
logic shuts down, and so don't be overly emotional. That
way you can approach the conversation and not have any
irrational response. Sometimes, let's make sure that we feel safe
enough to be super emotional. Right, you should be able
(23:51):
to have an express emotion, because I couldn't have any
form of thoughts of feelings right, So right, let's make
sure we got a safe space when you're going to
sit down and have healthy communication. There's regulation that happens,
emotional regulation that happens. You could also seek professional help,
which I did not, but you should highly recommend sooner.
(24:13):
Be honest with yourself, set boundaries, reconnect with friends or family,
maybe that you've sort of had to shut out because
of this other person. No when to leave easier said
than done. And then the last one it says, here
is no one to leave, which you know you were
even saying is difficult, But at some point you kind
of knew when the right time was and you had
(24:34):
to start putting forth the work to make and make arrangements.
But I think it's easier said than done than no
one to leave. But it says here that gray rocking
is a tool you can use to buy yourself some time,
which I pulled up the definition of that because I've
heard about it before, but I want to say it correctly.
Gray rocking is a technique used to divert a toxic
person's behavior by acting as unresponsive as possible when you're
(24:57):
interacting with them. For example, using the gray rock method
involves deliberate actions like avoiding eye contact or not showing
emotions during a conversation. And I know that Ghostdale just
when in doubt any of this stuff, it's popping up
for you other podcasts that focus on this sort of stuff,
or YouTube there's videos up you can type in keywords
(25:19):
if any of these flags are sticking out to you.
And there's so many resources out there of people that
are sharing their stories and therapists that are giving advice,
and we'll give you tools to keep in your toolbox
just in case you can't, you know, get to a
therapist today and know that other people do care about you.
That was one thing that just kind of popped into
(25:41):
my head is once I realized how many people did
care about me, Like this person couldn't make me feel
so small anymore. There is this community out there and
they care, and so once I get out of here,
I'm gonna be okay. Yes, thank you Cat for sharing,
Cryo Cat for sharing your story with us, because you
(26:01):
brought you actually brought the red flag. But which is
I think you can laugh about now, but I know
at the time there was a season of your life
for this was not funny. Yes, it took a long
time to get over, which normally I feel like my
personality can snap out quickly. But that and I remember
I was doing like a local facial on you or something,
and we were talking about dresses, and that was the
(26:22):
first time I just cracked up with you because I'm like,
then I got another dress and another dress, and it's like,
it's not about the dress, it's because this whole thing
doesn't feel right. And you were able to laugh at right,
but you and I, Yeah, that was my first good laugh.
And that was maybe, I don't know, within the last
six months. So it's like, pooh, we're good, we're past this. Yeah, Well,
thank you for getting vulnerable and sharing with us, because
(26:44):
I feel like it could be helpful to a lot
of people that are listening, or at least maybe you're
hearing this now and it can prevent some things down
the line. If you're in it now, then it might
sound a little scary hearing these things. But if you're dating,
then now you have a reminder that there's checklists out
there to help you so that way you don't end
up in something that you shouldn't. And observe your energies
(27:07):
around friends, family, potential romantic partners. I think that was
a big thing that now I'm totally in alignment, like
with myself, like I know what feels good what doesn't,
But really sit with your nervous system and see how
different people make you feel. Yeah, my friend Lisa says
that your body will tell you before your brain will
(27:28):
about someone for you. Unfortunately for me, everybody's energy is different.
So just because you have y'all feel that way about
each other or there's something uneasy, doesn't mean that that's
a bad person by any means. But the energy speaks
volumes right and like for me, like I said before,
nothing ever really felt right, so it's hard to differentiate
(27:49):
like what it was right and wrong because I felt
like this tornado of a person inside sometimes so it's like,
how do I know what's right when everything feels chaotic.
But once you get to this calm space, then you
can start too and it's really fascinating. And then maybe
you will end up walking down the aisle with someone
that you're not supposed to be right, right, right right.
That's that's the goal here, and everyone please like and subscribe.
(28:14):
All right, thank you, Cryo Cat. Hope y'all are having
the day that you need to have and look out
for those red flags. Yes, and you can find me
on Instagram. Just kidding. Cat doesn't have an Instagram, just joking,
but I'm at Radio Amy and in my Instagram bio
real quick, I will have the link to the tickets
(28:35):
that are going on sale tomorrow for the Four Things
live in Nashville. You can also go to Franklin Theater
dot com ticket tickets Friday January showing your seventh that's
tomorrow at ten am they go on sale. And it's
going to be such a fun night. Really, I've been
describing it as a successful girls night out, which would
include these four things, laughter, sharing, encouragement and connection and
(28:59):
then all so when you get home from a successful
girl's night. You feel these four things refreshed, empowered, motivated,
and seen. And so that's my hope for the night.
I'll be sharing some things. I'll have friends there, Therapy
Cat will obviously be there, and then cry O Cat
she's gonna be there, and experts will be on hand
(29:20):
walking us through some things. Will just be having honest
conversations about knowing your worth and using your voice and
building the confidence to have the life that you deserve.
And there's also gonna be music, which I haven't announced
who that's going to be yet, but it's gonna be
so special. I know who the person is, what we're
not saying yet, and I can't wait to reveal all
(29:42):
of the details. But one thing to keep in mind
is the v I P tickets. There's only forty eight
ish available, which is smaller than last time, but I
wanted to keep it more intimate because we're gonna do
a taping of the fifth Thing and a little Q
and A with Cat, Therapy Cat and myself. So if
you want those, and I would be prepared to get
(30:04):
them at ten a m. Tomorrow when they go on
sale again. Franklin Theater Dot com or I'll have the
link in my Instagram bio or you'll sure you can
just google for things that they be around Franklin Theater, Nashville,
and it will come up that I'm very very excited.
So ah yeah. With that said, I guess we'll go
bye bye
Okay, cassup, little food for you so life. Oh it's pretty,
but it's pretty beautiful than laugh for a little month.
(00:25):
Tighten up, you're kicking with four Brown Happy Thursday, four
Things Amy Here and back by popular demand is my
friend Catherine Cox, a k a. Cry O Cat, Hello, Hello,
Happy Thursday, which she was on early to mid December
(00:45):
last year's episode four seven. And we know it's four
seven because Cat had every single friend and family member
that she has listened to the episode. I sure did,
which I really appreciate the downloads. You're welcome, so I
would hear he would be like, yeah, have you listened
to this yet? Episode four of seven? That and Liken subscribe.
She's my new PR person, but she's called Cryo Cat
(01:07):
because Therapy Cat co hosts The Fifth Thing with me
on Tuesdays. So I just trying to keep everybody straight
with all the cats in my life and around my house.
Now there's Therapy Cat and there's Cryo Cat. But we're
talking red flags today. Red flags because well Cat has
been married a couple of times ish and a book
(01:30):
that she read before was this Before Your Last Tripped
down the Old. So I took one real seriously, and
you can tell by the notes in the book that
I wasn't playing around like this was gonna be it.
So the book is called Ready to Wed Twelve Ways
to Start a Marriage You'll Love, and it's a focus
on the family book. So on the back it says,
(01:50):
in planning for the big day, are you also preparing
for a marriage you'll love? And so since this was
your second marriage, like you said, you're like, I'm gonna mark.
I'm not much of a reader. I'm not much one
to do homework, but you see that book. I took
it very seriously, did all the tests, did all the practices.
(02:11):
What I think is ironic is that the little post
it tabs that you used to earmark each page they
are read and I did not even mean to do that.
And may I tell you red flag number one, though,
is that he didn't even crack his book. Open him
one to know. His father bought us those books. So
we each got a copy. Right, that's my copy, and
(02:33):
that's why it's all marked up. So red flag number
one whom we don't crack a book? And then you've
got their little posted tabs that she put on the book.
I was trying to make a sound on the microphone
with the tabs. I mean, I can't get over the
irony that they're red and that at the moment you
weren't even really seeing them as red flags. You're just like, oh,
mark this, we need to walk on it, Mark this,
(02:54):
we need to work on it. And then now it
is literally a visual of red flags in your relationship.
And I mean I think that there can be red
flags that show up in romantic relationships, friendships, work relationships.
So while we're talking about ready to wed, you can
try to be on the lookout for red flags in
all kinds of relationships that aren't gonna serve you well.
(03:18):
And I looked up a list of the thirteen most
common red flags, so I'll just go through them, and
then you can be like, yeap, check with this person
or with any Well, sure, let's just stick with this person,
since that's what this book was. But then also this
will just help people. Friends, you can be listening along
(03:39):
and take inventory of your own relationship and see if
any of this is popping up. And this doesn't mean
that your relationship is not going to work out at all.
This just means let's let's assess, yes, and potentially put
in the work to figure it out. And if your
partner is willing to look at it, and you may
(04:01):
even be like, oh shoot, I'm the one that does that,
you may recognize a red flag within yourself, which I
think is amazing self awareness. So pat on the backs
to you. How do you say that? Pats on the
back to you? Okay, Overly controlling behavior check. But sometimes
I feel like I can be a little bit of
a control phrase and then I'm like, shoot, red flag
on me. Well, Overly controlling behavior is a common red flag.
(04:24):
People that try to control your movements, your decisions, or
beliefs are more concerned about what they want than what
is best for you. In a healthy relationship, there's compromise
and understanding around differences. Not one person controls the other
person's actions. This is from better up dot com. By
the way, That's where I'm pulling all this in case
you want to go and print this out. Lack of trust.
(04:45):
So trust is an important foundation in any healthy relationship.
A major sign of an unstable relationship is when partners, friends, colleagues,
or family members distrust you. Of course, we all have
doubts sometimes, but they shouldn't stop us from trusting the
people in our lives to do the right thing. Healthy
relationships require trust on both sides. Noah, okay, so that's
you didn't know. No red flag on that one. Feeling
(05:09):
low self esteem check check check. If people close to
you should build you up, not break you down. When
you love someone, you are committed to supporting and uplifting them.
If you do not feel that support from your partner, family,
or friends, something needs to change. Check check. So feeling
low self esteem, that's that one. Physical emotional or mental abuse,
(05:32):
which obviously if you have any of that going on,
I hope that you're able to realize it and get
the proper help, Especially if it's physical abuse. I think
that's easier to notice if it's happening to you than
emotional abuse, because sometimes that takes a minute to register,
like oh wow, the way they said that, or how
they said that, or the repeated ways in which they
(05:53):
said that. Mentally, it can really really mess with you. Yeah,
it might overtie. Take time for these things to build
build old and until you realize, oh my gosh, what
is this, what's happening to my mental state? My emotions?
Everything like that, but obviously physical boom right there. It's
an undeniable red flame, right and sadly it takes people
(06:14):
they have to try seven times on average before they
can extract themselves from those situations. Okay, well, abuse is
never an acceptable thing, so hopefully if anyone's dealing with that,
they can get help. Substance abuse, that's a clear red flag.
It indicates that a person struggles with impulse control and
self destructive habits. Depending on the substance. Any relationship can
(06:35):
quickly turn toxic if addiction is present. With that said,
substance abuse is an illness and your loved one might
need help, which you and I both understand that for sure.
If you are someone you know is struggling, definitely reach
out for help on that one as well. So do
I comment on this check check, check, check again. On
both sides. I have been the substance abuse user, and
(06:58):
then I've been ober and then dealt with people with
substance Yes like functioning. Yes to acknowledge you cat and
all of your hard work. You just celebrated your twelfth,
your sobriety birthday, so twelve years totally sober and your
thirty three now ironically when people start drinking when you
(07:22):
got sober, which is like my typical personalities like oh
we're allowed to now? No thanks, thanks, but I'm good.
I've already you know, I was in rehab by the
time I was seventeen, Like we're done here, then you're
done that. Uh. Narcissism is another thing to look out for.
Narcissistic personality disorder as a mental condition that indicates self
(07:45):
obsession a misplaced sense of importance. Narcissists believe that the
world revolves around them, and if anybody threatens this belief,
turmoil and chaos tend to follow. Being emotionally involved with
a narcissist ego driven person can be exhausting and traumatizing.
Their needs will always be considered more important than yours.
Chack anger management issues. If someone you were close to
(08:10):
has anger management issues, you might feel threatened or unsafe
during conflict. Lack of emotional regulation is a definite red
flag for any relationship. We all should feel comfortable enough
with a partner of friend to tackle difficult subjects without
fearing for our safety. Anyone who uses anger as intimidation
(08:30):
is toxic. That reminds me like I told you about
the book. The common theme is that I never felt
safe to speak on anything. There are at least probably
three or four flags that speak to that. And if
you can't feel safe to share with someone, just leave. Honestly,
(08:50):
sometimes it's hard to I know, I know, yeah, yeah,
I mean it took me a good amount of time,
but I just or start putting the things in motion
or having conversations people that might be able to help
you get out. I did not seek out therapy. I
have a good circle, like I have great friends who
are therapists. But um, I should have sought better help
(09:12):
during the time instead of I shoved a lot of
things down and then I just should have done the
cry for help, you know. Yeah, well, I think sometimes
we just feel like, oh I can manage this myself,
or oh I've got this, or I don't want to
burden people, or I'll just figure this out. But when
you're having panic attacks and things and trimmers and your
head is shaking uncontrollably, I mean, that's your body giving
(09:33):
you flags. It's yeah, and that was the It's something's
got to change. Let's get out all codependency, which codependency
can be very interesting to dive into. If you feel
like you might have any codependency in your life, I
would recommend the book by a Melanie Beaty Codependent No More.
But codependency and the ensuing emotional labor might not always
(09:57):
present themselves as toxic, but codependence and relationships can be
a pervasive pattern that causes issues such as emotional exhaustion
and increasing mental load. Codependency or relationship addiction happens when
two people rely on each other exclusively for emotional, psychological,
and even physical support. This alienates them from other relationships
(10:21):
and constunt personal growth. Jack I would say, I've definitely
dealt with that. It's complicated. I think I've been codependent,
and then I think I've had people be codependent of me.
Does that make sense? Yeah? But no more? All right.
(10:47):
Inability to resolve conflict, people that avoid conflict might think
they are protecting the relationship from ruin, but in the
end it only results in long winded passive aggression. As
uncomfortable as it can be, embracing constructive conflict is a
crucial element of all relationships. Without productive conflict, serious matters
(11:07):
can never be resolved. This can lead to resentment and
wasted energy. Yes, that's exactly what I was about to say.
I hear resentment, resentment, resentment, constant jealousy. Did you ever
deal with it without a new flag? That's another line? Yeah, Yeah,
for sure. It is natural to feel jealous when your
partner or friend is spending a lot of time with others. However,
(11:27):
that is not an excuse to let it cloud your judgment.
Someone who is constantly jealous of your connection with others
cares more about what they want than your happiness. I
would say that I definitely spent less time with certain
friends just to appease your partner. Yeah, that's a bummer again,
No more like we're gonna keep our our healthy And
(11:50):
now I know everything felt dysfunctional for my entire life
that I didn't really know what was right until about
maybe the last three years. I finally have all this clarity.
So no more forcing all this discomfort. Um Like our
relationship is so easy, breezy. It makes me think about
because I know that you've had different disordered eating stuff
(12:11):
and body image things, and it makes me think about
how whenever I had restricted for so long and dieted
and did so many different things that I didn't understand
my hunger cues, Like, I didn't understand my boy. I
didn't know what that I like, I don't know what
is it like to be hungry because I was either
under eating or overeating, So I didn't know my own self.
(12:33):
And I feel like that's what you're saying, and that
you had so much dysfunction. And I had been operating
that way with my body since I was a teenager,
and so as an adult trying to learn when I'm
hungry and when I'm not and what that means. So
for you, as an adult, you were learning what's healthy,
what's dysfunctional, what's not. Very similar. Yeah, And I think
a lot of times we are drawn to people similar
(12:57):
to us or our unhealed wounds, and in this situation,
I mean, it was all just wounded childhood, let's say.
So I feel like to a big thing in having
healthy relationships is looking internal. So I know we're talking
about red flags and what to look out for in
other people, but you know, we did say you might
see some of the stuff popping up in yourself, But
(13:18):
then it's like, what can we heal within ourselves? That way,
you give yourself the opportunity to find a healthy relationship,
because if you're not willing to do the work and
look inward and try to heal some of that stuff,
it's going to keep popping up from relationship to relationship,
all right. Next thing on the list is gas lighting.
That's a common tactic of manipulation. It's a form of
(13:41):
emotional abuse in which the manipulator will make you question
your own sanity or judgments. Victims of gas lighting are
made to feel guilty regardless of whether or not they
did anything wrong. Gaslighting is a clear red flag in
any relationship. Yes, yes, yes, And I feel so bad
for anybody dealing with that. So a narcissist is going
(14:01):
to gaslight, right, I mean typically, And so what is
sad about that is a narcissist will pick someone with
low self esteem. So if we already have these kind
of subconscious, you know, low self esteem, bad thoughts about ourselves,
and they find out, they will take that and expand
it bigger than you can ever imagine, and then you
(14:23):
are stuck in this vicious cycle. Moving out of this
situation took months and months and months for me to
walk into a mall like a normal person, feeling worthy
things like that, knowing that you deserve good. Yeah, I
work hard and I deserve to spend my dollar on myself. Right,
So that's why you used walking to uh into a
(14:44):
mall as an example, because you might want to buy
something for yourself. And for a long time I felt
like I didn't deserve anything. I didn't deserve to spend
money or have anything, and I was told I didn't
bring anything to the table. I just worry for people.
But like I know, I've got a tough mind, So
I really worry though about anybody that isn't in that space.
(15:07):
What could happen to them? Yeah? I mean you mentioned
your strong mind, and me knowing the version of you
now which I've been friends with you for two years now,
I do see you as this strong, confident, independent, I
take care of myself, great mom, hard worker. I don't
even know that I can imagine that version of you
(15:28):
that would be scared to walk into them all right.
And here's what's sad, though, is we've talked before about
that year old me who was so confident and had
it like I never thought I would crash again in life,
and then unfortunately being drawn to those unhealed wounds and
people with all these red flags earth shattering again. So
(15:49):
went from loving life, loving myself to then boom, completely
falling off. And I told you the other day as well.
I went through a phase of I was constantly I'm sorry,
I'm sorry if I did anything to inconvenient someone or
in their way, this and that. It was. I was
always jumpy and apologizing, like I didn't deserve to share
this space. But I think even then a lot of
(16:12):
people would look at me and think, and they would
never think, which is to why I like, it's important
to talk to people and share what you're going through
because we don't know. I can put on a heck
of a game face and a lot of people out
there can. But I think that's why we all do
need to practice honest conversations and what might be going on.
And even I think or maybe you were having a
(16:36):
rough time and you you just spilled it to me,
and I was like, oh my gosh. Well, first of all,
wasn't honor that you. You know, I felt comfortable enough,
but you shared things that I'm like, oh, well, Amy,
I grew up like this, like you know, we can
connect on this, we can heal from this. Yeah, I mean,
and that gave me comfort and then too, I'm even
thinking of a text message you sent me the other day.
(16:57):
It was just like a simple like hey, you know,
how's your day whatever? And you reply back, this is
going on and I'm having about a thousand different emotions
and I need to cry at some point and I
don't really know. And I was like okay. And then
I met up with you later and I was like, okay,
what do we need to do. Do we need to cry?
Do we need to talk about this? Like what emotions
do we need to sort through? Because it's okay to
have them all and field them all and let's be
with them and they let's do cryotherapy. And cried though
(17:22):
to me later vegus Nerve, oh, you never cried that night.
I never cried that up. But here's the thing, because
I am worthy of a massage and now I'm in
that headspace if I can go and take care of myself,
I'm gonna have a massage soon. So hopefully that brings
on the tears. My sister gifted me a massage over
Christmas break and I cried. I needed it and I
(17:43):
knew walking to the spot I was crying because I
didn't even know she was gifting gifting it to me,
she just had made an appointment. She said there was
only one available at the hotel we were at because
it was so last minute. And she said, but I
want you to have it. And I thought, no, you
should have it, and she's like, no, you should have it,
and I said, let's cancel it. She said, no, I
think you should go. So I went fully thinking, Okay,
(18:05):
I'm going to take the slot. I'll give in to
her plea for me to go, and then I'll pay
for it. And while I was getting the massage, which
was so relaxing and again just was an emotional release,
I cried on the way there, cried on the table,
and then when I was walking out, I went to
the front desk to pay and she said, oh, while
you were on the table, your sister snuck in and
(18:28):
paid for everything, and then so that I cried again.
It was just the sweetest gesture. And I know that
your mom gifted you this massage for my twelfth birthday,
for your twelve years sober, which was really sweet of her.
And I hope that for you, Like, yeah, I hope
you get on the table and it's not too awkward
and you let it all out. Thank you. I hope
(18:49):
so too. Male massus or female male? Okay, I think
his name is Jeremiah. Do you think it gonna be
awkward crying to Jeremiah. We might have the best time ever.
Or I might sit there and bowl tell them the truth, like, hey,
I need to get some things out. We have a
lot of inflammation and just tears backed up. I'm sure
massage therapists are used to hearing some of people's problems.
(19:12):
Not that people like to talk the whole time. I
don't really, I'm not a talker when I'm getting a
massage done, but I guess there's times where if I
have gotten emotional, I feel the need, especially when I
flip over to be like I'm so sorry that it's
crying and they're like, no, honestly, it happens more than
you would think. And then depending on how close I
end up getting to the person, how many massages I've
had from them, might be how much information they tend
(19:34):
to get right, Because Jeremiah day one, he probably we'll
just see too much, all right. We still have two
more things on the list of red flags. Lack of
(19:54):
emotional intelligence, Emotional intelligence is the ability to perceive and
manage emotions. People with a low level of emotional intelligence
are unable to pick up on your feelings or empathize
with you. This often results in unnecessary conflicts or forms
of manipulation boom. So emotional intelligence is EQ like I QQ,
(20:16):
and I know that there are e Q tests online,
so you could even see where you are. Because I
want to do this and let's report back to each
other figure out if you are emotionally intelligent. I think
I am, which if you're not, that also may not
be your fault. It could be exactly and so I
(20:38):
think there's hope in that you can work on that, right,
I mean, I'm no expert, but I hope. So final
red flag, at least from better up dot Com. Negatively
affecting your relationship with family and friends red flag if
this person is doing that. For many of us, our
family and friends provide an important sense of community. It's
a major red flag if someone in your life is
(21:00):
negatively affecting your relationship with those you love. Healthy relationships
should never come at the cost of other healthy relationships.
Oh my gosh. And then it goes on to talk
about yellow flags versus red flags, which we talk about
yellow flags on the Bobby Bones show. Sometimes it's like
a red flag but less severe. So it's just something
(21:22):
to be aware of. I mean, honestly, if you didn't
have so many little red tabs in this book, if
you just had a few, and then I'd be like, okay, right,
these are yellow and you could work through them and
let's this marriage is gonna last. But the amount of
red dads you have in Ready to Wed, I'm surprised
you even went through with the actual marriage. I am too,
(21:43):
But well, you know, here's the funny part. Didn't I
tell you we never filed the marriage license. I knew
that part. But you you had the had a ceremony.
It was just a whole thing, a lot of trampled
boundaries that you had the party. I had the party
that I didn't want to have, but then I had
to have three dresses because nothing felt right, and then
(22:04):
it's just like lit back up, moonwalk out of this.
You were, I think, from what I get from the
stories you've told me is you just completely threw yourself
into like every little detail to try to make it right.
But like other people, yeah, nothing is good. Enough right,
but also nothing was feeling right with you. You're like,
why do I need three dresses? But it's because you
(22:25):
were feeling so uncomfortable about it all. And I tried
so hard to make it so perfect for other people
because they wanted. I thought, let's be a team player.
You know, I know this is so uncomfortable. I don't
want to do this, but let's lean into the discomfort
make everybody else happy. But at the end of the day,
I'm destroyed. I can't need anything because I've given myself
such stomach issues, and you know, just a team player
(22:48):
makes me think of We were sitting at the kitchen
table the other night and my daughter sash here. I
said to me and Cat, I want to be a player,
and we're like, dang girl. I thought she meant player
with you know, boys or whatever, and she said, no, no, no, no, no, Like,
what's it called a team player? I want to go
(23:09):
with the flow, and I thought we were so cutey
look at you quickly will end with all run through
How to approach red flags in a relationship. Really, it's
best to acknowledge your own needs healthy communication, avoid being
overly emotional about things. That way you're able to be
(23:29):
more direct because sometimes when you and therapy Cat and
I have talked about this a lot, when emotion comes in,
logic shuts down, and so don't be overly emotional. That
way you can approach the conversation and not have any
irrational response. Sometimes, let's make sure that we feel safe
enough to be super emotional. Right, you should be able
(23:51):
to have an express emotion, because I couldn't have any
form of thoughts of feelings right, So right, let's make
sure we got a safe space when you're going to
sit down and have healthy communication. There's regulation that happens,
emotional regulation that happens. You could also seek professional help,
which I did not, but you should highly recommend sooner.
(24:13):
Be honest with yourself, set boundaries, reconnect with friends or family,
maybe that you've sort of had to shut out because
of this other person. No when to leave easier said
than done. And then the last one it says, here
is no one to leave, which you know you were
even saying is difficult, But at some point you kind
of knew when the right time was and you had
(24:34):
to start putting forth the work to make and make arrangements.
But I think it's easier said than done than no
one to leave. But it says here that gray rocking
is a tool you can use to buy yourself some time,
which I pulled up the definition of that because I've
heard about it before, but I want to say it correctly.
Gray rocking is a technique used to divert a toxic
person's behavior by acting as unresponsive as possible when you're
(24:57):
interacting with them. For example, using the gray rock method
involves deliberate actions like avoiding eye contact or not showing
emotions during a conversation. And I know that Ghostdale just
when in doubt any of this stuff, it's popping up
for you other podcasts that focus on this sort of stuff,
or YouTube there's videos up you can type in keywords
(25:19):
if any of these flags are sticking out to you.
And there's so many resources out there of people that
are sharing their stories and therapists that are giving advice,
and we'll give you tools to keep in your toolbox
just in case you can't, you know, get to a
therapist today and know that other people do care about you.
That was one thing that just kind of popped into
(25:41):
my head is once I realized how many people did
care about me, Like this person couldn't make me feel
so small anymore. There is this community out there and
they care, and so once I get out of here,
I'm gonna be okay. Yes, thank you Cat for sharing,
Cryo Cat for sharing your story with us, because you
(26:01):
brought you actually brought the red flag. But which is
I think you can laugh about now, but I know
at the time there was a season of your life
for this was not funny. Yes, it took a long
time to get over, which normally I feel like my
personality can snap out quickly. But that and I remember
I was doing like a local facial on you or something,
and we were talking about dresses, and that was the
(26:22):
first time I just cracked up with you because I'm like,
then I got another dress and another dress, and it's like,
it's not about the dress, it's because this whole thing
doesn't feel right. And you were able to laugh at right,
but you and I, Yeah, that was my first good laugh.
And that was maybe, I don't know, within the last
six months. So it's like, pooh, we're good, we're past this. Yeah, Well,
thank you for getting vulnerable and sharing with us, because
(26:44):
I feel like it could be helpful to a lot
of people that are listening, or at least maybe you're
hearing this now and it can prevent some things down
the line. If you're in it now, then it might
sound a little scary hearing these things. But if you're dating,
then now you have a reminder that there's checklists out
there to help you so that way you don't end
up in something that you shouldn't. And observe your energies
(27:07):
around friends, family, potential romantic partners. I think that was
a big thing that now I'm totally in alignment, like
with myself, like I know what feels good what doesn't,
But really sit with your nervous system and see how
different people make you feel. Yeah, my friend Lisa says
that your body will tell you before your brain will
(27:28):
about someone for you. Unfortunately for me, everybody's energy is different.
So just because you have y'all feel that way about
each other or there's something uneasy, doesn't mean that that's
a bad person by any means. But the energy speaks
volumes right and like for me, like I said before,
nothing ever really felt right, so it's hard to differentiate
(27:49):
like what it was right and wrong because I felt
like this tornado of a person inside sometimes so it's like,
how do I know what's right when everything feels chaotic.
But once you get to this calm space, then you
can start too and it's really fascinating. And then maybe
you will end up walking down the aisle with someone
that you're not supposed to be right, right, right right.
That's that's the goal here, and everyone please like and subscribe.
(28:14):
All right, thank you, Cryo Cat. Hope y'all are having
the day that you need to have and look out
for those red flags. Yes, and you can find me
on Instagram. Just kidding. Cat doesn't have an Instagram, just joking,
but I'm at Radio Amy and in my Instagram bio
real quick, I will have the link to the tickets
(28:35):
that are going on sale tomorrow for the Four Things
live in Nashville. You can also go to Franklin Theater
dot com ticket tickets Friday January showing your seventh that's
tomorrow at ten am they go on sale. And it's
going to be such a fun night. Really, I've been
describing it as a successful girls night out, which would
include these four things, laughter, sharing, encouragement and connection and
(28:59):
then all so when you get home from a successful
girl's night. You feel these four things refreshed, empowered, motivated,
and seen. And so that's my hope for the night.
I'll be sharing some things. I'll have friends there, Therapy
Cat will obviously be there, and then cry O Cat
she's gonna be there, and experts will be on hand
(29:20):
walking us through some things. Will just be having honest
conversations about knowing your worth and using your voice and
building the confidence to have the life that you deserve.
And there's also gonna be music, which I haven't announced
who that's going to be yet, but it's gonna be
so special. I know who the person is, what we're
not saying yet, and I can't wait to reveal all
(29:42):
of the details. But one thing to keep in mind
is the v I P tickets. There's only forty eight
ish available, which is smaller than last time, but I
wanted to keep it more intimate because we're gonna do
a taping of the fifth Thing and a little Q
and A with Cat, Therapy Cat and myself. So if
you want those, and I would be prepared to get
(30:04):
them at ten a m. Tomorrow when they go on
sale again. Franklin Theater Dot com or I'll have the
link in my Instagram bio or you'll sure you can
just google for things that they be around Franklin Theater, Nashville,
and it will come up that I'm very very excited.
So ah yeah. With that said, I guess we'll go
bye bye
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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