OUTWEIGH: Addiction isn’t just about substances—it’s about the ways we cope with pain, stress, and unmet needs. In this episode, Chip Dodd and Leanne unpack how behaviors like emotional eating, over-exercising, workaholism, and social media addiction follow the same addictive patterns as substances. They explore the difference between coping mechanisms that help us heal versus those that keep us stuck, and how the brain wires itself for addiction. If you’ve ever felt caught in a cycle of numbing or self-sabotage, this episode will help you understand why—and what you can do about it.
Visit Chip's website at: ChipDodd.com
You can order your copy of Chip's book, The Voice of the Heart: A Call To Full Living HERE.
Listen to the Living With Heart Podcast HERE.
Leanne Ellington // StresslessEating.com // @leanneellington
To learn more about re-wiring your brain to heal from the all-or-nothing diet mentality for good....but WITHOUT restricting yourself, punishing your body, (and definitely WITHOUT ever having to use words like macros, low-carb, or calorie burn) check out Leanne's FREE Stressless Eating Webinar @ www.StresslessEating.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I won't let my body out me outwait everything that
I'm made done, won't spend my life trying to change.
I'm learning love who I am, I get, I'm strong,
I feel free, I know everybody of me. It's beautiful.
And then he'll always out way if you feel it,
(00:24):
but you she'll some love to the food. By you
have there, say good day and did you and die out?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Hey hey leanne here and I hope you enjoyed this
series with doctor Chip Dodd. Here on outweigh and if
you want to learn more about how I teach my
own clients to turn off the part of their brain
that's obsessed with food, obsessed with their weight, and rewire
their own brain for peace and freedom, then head on
over to Stressless Eating dot com, where I've literally peeled
back the curtain and walked you through the exact strategy
(00:58):
I teach my clients to heal themselves from the all
or nothing diet mentality for good, but without restricting themselves,
punishing their bodies, and definitely without ever having to use
words like macros, low carb or calorie burn. It is
all over there for you to access over at stressless
seating dot com. Well Happy, Saturday outwigh. It is me
(01:21):
LeAnn here back for an episode where we're actually here
with our beautiful guest, Chip Dog, where we're going to
do a series. It's a four part mini series called
Why We Numb The Real Root of coping Mechanisms. So hello, Chip, Hey.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Good see you. I love you, brought your good energy again.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Oh, thank you so much, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Well. Sonia even commented, she said she's heard you, and
she said she just has great energy. I love her energy.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
So thank you so speech. I appreciate that. Well, I
love yours, and I'm so grateful for you to be
here because this, you know, the topic of this series
is about why we Numb and coping mechanisms. But really,
you know, so many people identify as an addict or
they don't even know that their compulsive behaviors of weighing themselves,
the body IMOGIP session, the food obsession really takes over
their brain and there's so much shame with it. And
(02:08):
so there's no one better than you to be here
for this series. So just to brag on Chip for
just a second. He has been in the recovery world
for decades and he developed his own recovery system called
the Spiritual Roots System, and he took it into the
recovery world and then ran a treatment center for twenty
two years called the Center of Professional Excellence, and now
(02:29):
still in twenty twenty five, he's here spreading the love,
sharing his truth and the truth about what addiction is
and isn't and I mean so much more than that.
So you've probably know him best from his book The
Voice of the Heart, and we're going to share all
of the ways that you can find him. But he
was also on What's God Got to do with It?
So we'll link that in the show notes, But specifically,
we are going to be here for the next few
(02:51):
weeks talking about why we numb the real root of
coping mechanisms, and this is part one of this series.
Today we're going to talk about what is addiction really
okay and the coping mechanisms that become a trap because
a lot of us, I know, I'm talking to women
all the time that they think they identify as an
addict or they feel like something has this addictive pull
(03:13):
over them, but they don't necessarily know what it is.
So we're going to break it down for you. What
it looks like on a logic and reason level, on
a behavioral level, on a neuroscientific level. But first let's
just dive on in. So addiction, obviously we're talking about
this before. It's not just about the substance the thing.
It's about how we cope or how we use the thing,
or who we're being in the face of the fin
whether it's food, you know, social media, weight obsession, whatever
(03:37):
it is, right, and so how behaviors like emotional eating
and over exercising and workaholism and even social media addiction
follow those same patterns. So can we talk about what
is addiction?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
The simplest definition that I have for addiction is it
ends up being an intolerance for vulnerability, and intolerance vulnerability
and vulnerability means openness to being affected, to being wounded,
to being seen exposed, to being needy, all the things
(04:09):
that sort of like our mythology of society says, you've
got to be stronger than how you're made. And so
really and truly addiction is an attempt to escape how
we're actually created, to run away from how we're made.
There's a saying that the suppression of expression equals depression,
(04:31):
and I don't mean the clinical depression. I'm talking about
depressing how we're created. That we actually are told somewhere
along in our lives that what you're bringing to this
need for connection is not what we're looking for, So
we attempt to disconnect from ourselves. And so almost every
person who's addicted, whether they realize it or not, grew
(04:53):
up in an environment where they were the heart of
who they are, feedings, needs, desire, longing, and hope was
oppressed pushed away, and then that person becomes obsessed with
the need to belong and matter at the same time
without being who I'm really made to be as an
expressive person. So the need to belong and matter is
(05:17):
still there, but I can't do it like I'm created,
So I practiced not being myself. So that's what oppression
turns to obsession, obsession with control, and then that turns
into possession. And so as crazy it sounds at first,
the thinking takes over the frontal lobe, the executive functionings
(05:39):
takes over for the heart, so it becomes a mind
over heart problem rather than a heart actually overmind. So
recovery is about returning to how we're created.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Wow, and so beautifully put that it's an escape from
who we are, or we never got we never felt
safe to be all of who we are. This is
somewhere along the line we picked up a storyline or
a belief that if I just could go control that
obsess over that, then that'll fill this need. And it
wasn't conscious, We didn't consciously know we were doing it, right,
But so powerful to hear that because so often addiction
(06:13):
and compulsion is categorize as just this physiological thing, and
that's the cause and effects, you know, cascade. But really,
what you're saying I so agree with and what I'm
finding with you know, all of the women that come
through my program, is that it starts at the mental, emotional,
spiritual side of it. And when you address that, then
you might also need to make some altercations.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
In the physical realm.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Right absolutely, but that's when everything is possible so soon, and.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I would even say it even starts, if we wanted
to make a pinpoint start. It actually starts with this
idea that we can't accept ourselves emotionally. It's not our
faults of their problem, it's not even our actions out
of their problem. It's actually that somehow or another it's
not okay the way I actually feel. And that's where
the Voice of the Heart book is about our core feelings,
(06:59):
soting literally the core feelings of how we're created, which
actually open up the door to needs and desire and longings.
So guess what, Once we're growing up in an oppressive place,
oppressing the heart, we don't get to practice learning how
to live. We don't get the practice figuring things out.
(07:20):
We don't get the practice making mistakes. And almost every
bit of learning in life is about practice, which is
vulnerability being seen. So it's almost like we have to
have the answers before we arrive at the problem. We
have to have the answers before we get the questions.
And that becomes the external validation versus internal risking on
an external world, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
So we add ourselves and you just defined self rejection
at its core, that's where it starts. That's where you know,
it festers outward and then we go as humans. I've
done it too, and now I'm learning is that like
you can't solve an emotional problem with logic and reason?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Amen, you know, keep on keeping to say more.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
That's it, Yes, it is, absolutely, and that's what we do.
So coming back to you know, I love how you
set the stage for this, where this starts, where the
problem is, where it starts, what the real problem is
and what it isn't So when we're talking about now
the difference between addiction and coping mechanisms, because a lot
of people might not say, well, yes, I'm realizing that
I'm coping with something, whether they don't know what it is,
(08:21):
with food, you know, numbing out on social media, Netflix, whatever, versus.
I talk to a lot of women who are on
the other camp where they're like, no, Leanne, I am
an addict, right, and they swear they're an addict to
sugar specifically. So you know, there's some coping mechanisms that
can actually help us heal and actually comfort right and
do good, versus others that keep us stuck and create
(08:41):
a toxic cycle. So can you share a bit about
the distinction between not just addiction and coping mechanisms, but
strategies that heal and some in those of them.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yeah, you know interesting, a coping mechanism can be part
of an addiction. A coping mechanism that can be part
of an addiction, and an addiction is also a form
of coping if you're attempting to escape one thing, So
coping an addiction becomes synonyms if you're attempting to use
(09:13):
your actions to escape having to do one thing, you're
trying to get away from feeling because even of books
about stress management, coping strategies for stress, even those things
can be used to try to escape having to be human,
having to be in need, having to feel so recovery.
(09:34):
Whether it's the use of coping or addiction itself. See,
addiction is not a badness, it's not an evil. It's
an attempt to have normal needs met without having to
be in need. And coping strategies are a way to
make sure that we put ourselves in positions so that
we have a place to go where who we are
(09:57):
and how we live, who we really are is received.
So the coping strategies need to be actions we take
to stick around people and be with people who can
receive us as God made us as feeling creatures who
have needs, desire, longings, and hope. And we can find
the places to struggle with others who are doing the
(10:18):
same versus struggling and with those who judge us for
being human.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
So coping strategies need to be getting around people who
have the same strengths we have of being human so
we're able to tolerate an inhuman world.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, and if you're how to be safe in who
we are and this being safe, it's one thing to
I identify that I'm not safe and like have an
idea of like, oh what would be safe, But to
be in practice living out being a human being all
of who you are around people where you're safe, that
is everything.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
And the safety is actually a place where you can
practice being yourself and then go out into a world
that may not receive it, but you can still practice
being yourself in that world and then come back and resustain. See.
Because we're made for relationship. I mean even neuroscience, more
than ever before, finally has awakened to what we've known forever.
(11:10):
Do you come out of the womb looking for who's
looking for you? That we're created to find fulfillment relationship
and people who are addicted or coping to hide their
feelings all right, or trying to get relationship without having
to be in need. So we need to be in
the places where we can be ourselves so we can
cope with the world that isn't very interested in who
(11:32):
we are. It doesn't mean that you try to hide
from the world. You have the strength to go live it.
And how do we have the strength to go live
in the world. We do that through having relationships that
we're security and we belong in matter.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
And it comes back to what you literally started with
with just this concept of vulnerability, where it's like, where
does that even fit into addiction? Might some people be thinking,
but you just said it. It's this idea of not
a feeling like we can't go be in need. It's
what's causing the addiction, and that's a vulnerable place to be,
to be like, no, I need connection and we yeah,
there's a world of true efficiency exactly. It's not a desire,
(12:06):
it's a require. And so obviously my you know, my
mind is.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Please repeat that, it's not a desire, it is it
is a required.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
And I love that you brought up the geeky neuroscience
stuff because one of the things I'm talking about all
the time is the anterior singular cortex. It's my favorite
part of the brain. It's the social brain, and it's
bigger in females and more active and that's where I
to oversimplify it. What I teach my clients is that
that is where our addiction and compulsion lives, because it's
not what's happening is we're being over fed by dopamine. Right,
(12:36):
these hits of dopamine. That again, now we know what
that dopamine is a response to, of not of being needed,
but not feeling comfortable to go be air quotes needy, right,
or receive that support and that connection that we need,
not just desire, but require. But so what's happening is
we're going.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
To describing even though that need to get hits of
dopamine to get relief hits a relieve ourselves for anxiety exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, but that what happens is that initial hunger what
we're really needing, which is oxytocin. By connection, we are
feeding dopamine. So therefore our brain is being overfed and undernourished.
And it's a cycle cycles level.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
And I want your audience to hear that it's not
either or we're made to experience dopamine because we're made
to have relief from flight flight freeze and a piece Okay,
but the thing that dopamine won't answer that both and
and part. We're craving dopamine from a standpoint of relief,
but we're even more craving oxytocin for life giving experience.
(13:35):
So dopamine relieves, oxytocin grants us a full life. One's
a life giving chemical, one's a life relieving chemical. Yes so,
and oxytocin occurs. But we can bring how we're made
and who we're made to be to people who can
receive that. And also people can come get the same
thing from us. Absolutely, so recovery ultimately, no matter what
(13:56):
what you're recovering from, recovery ultimately is too. I admit
that I don't have control of life, and the more
I try to control it, my life becomes unmanageable. And
then number two, I become somebody others can come to
to receive oxytocin, and I have people to go to
to get oxytocin in no worries. Not only am I safe,
(14:19):
but I'm cared about and that strengthens me to go
risk being myself in a world that's not very interested
in me, or a world that is coping with sickness
or addicted and leanne. You and I both know that
and so many people talk what the pandemic really is.
We talk about the pandemic was COVID, and that became
(14:39):
a word that everybody knew suddenly. But the real pandemic
in our society is addiction because there are over two
hundred million plus people who carry addiction. And addiction ultimately
is about running from feelings. So guess what if you
deal with feelings in a healthy way, you get recovery
(15:01):
from that which would silence you, numb you, knock you out,
anesthetize you, or literally control your life to the standpoint
that even when you walk and outside your own home,
you're obsessed with the appearance of what people think about
what you look like. And the only power hits are,
the only sense of security you have is somebody affirming
(15:22):
your outsides, but nobody really being interested in your insides.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Absolutely and insights healss even just a stack on that,
because what you said is just so beautiful, I believe
are The first thing is like, we have to become
interested in our insights, Yes you know what I mean,
and they'd run away from yeah, absolutely, and learn how
to be emotionally available to ourselves. And a lot of
times that means going and getting support and being in need. Right,
But we have to learn to wake that ticker up
(15:47):
because a lot of women, specifically that I work with,
and I know it's men too, we're to sensitized. We
don't even know when those alarm bells are going off anymore.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
That is so true. And there really is a thing
called denial. And denial does not mean you're life. Denial
means you really don't see, means you're blind. I was
talking to a woman this morning and she went to
her first adult Children of Alcoholics meetings, and she wasn't
raised in an alcoholic home, but it's for dysfunctional families. A
dysfunctional family is a feeling that doesn't deal with feelings
(16:16):
in a healthy way period. And she said that she
shared a little bit, and then she said that all
these other people shared, and she said, I just kept thinking,
me too, me too, And she said, I've never met
these people my whole life, and I felt like it
was okay. But and that's how you that's how you
(16:37):
know you're getting into recovery when you go to a
meeting and you look around and you're not going, that's
not me, that's not me. You're actually going this is
me too, your home now very quickly. But all of
us are born to have a home, and then if
you don't have a home, you still look for one. Okay,
what is a home? A home is a sanctuary, and
(16:58):
it's a place where the front porch lights always on,
the door's always unlocked, and the table set ready for
your return, and there's someone there who says, oh, no, no, no,
I'm doing the cooking, the cleaning. I'm taking care of
you until you can take care of you. And so
we all need that place where we can bring our neediness.
(17:20):
And then once addiction kicks in, we don't believe a
place like that exists or not for me, because I'm
not worth it. And the thing is, you're born worth it.
And if you don't know you're worth it, then it's
not that it went away, it's that it got buried
by the people who you needed to be home with.
(17:42):
So almost all addiction and all of our coping sicker
coping skills are all about front I hate to say
it this way, but what happened to the feelings in
your growing up experience? If you come from a place
of feeling, you're almost certainly not going to wind up
in a position of position called addiction.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Absolutely. And I'll just finish by saying this because I
have to plug your Voice of the heartbook for just
a moment. But I think a lot of people think
they have to go dig up all of the skeletons.
It's the braveyard from the past. And what I talk
about is like you can get very yes you want
to become aware of it, but get out very right now,
solutions focused and almost start like adulting yourself through these
feelings that never got reconciled. And so if you're looking
(18:21):
for a tool to do that, the Voice of the
Heart is just it's literally a guide of how to
feel and to it'll you'll be able to recognize where
you fit in the spectrum of almost you know, the
suppressing of it versus you know how to health use
a healthy coping mechanism to experience your feels before we
dive off. Can how can people find you?
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Stock? You find out all the chipdod dot com and
you'll you'll get into chip DoD resources, free resources recommendations,
and it takes you also to the Living with Heart
podcast Living with Heart from Birth to Death and then
of course, it takes you to eight different books that
(19:01):
I've written. In fact, the Voice of the Heart is
a seminal work. It was written a long time ago.
It was the first emotions book actually written in terms
of if we look at in terms of bibliograhy, it's crazy.
I didn't know that was writing the first emotions book.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
You know now like so widely and popularity used by
all therapists. Yes, that's how we found everywhere.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, yes, and you know what it came out. It
came out to the sounds of crickets. And now it's
become like almost like it was a little far ahead. Yeah,
And actually all it did was named something ancient. We're
created as creatures who were made for relationship, and that
heart actually really is created to take precedence over our thinking.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Absolutely, And we did a whole episode all about the
Voice of the Heart, so I will link that in
the show notes from the Godpod. But don't worry, we're
not done because we're going to be back next week
with episode two of this series where we're going to
talk about why we numb and the real reason we
avoid pain and seek comfort. So we got into it
a bit today, but we're going to get to go
narrow or deeper, so we will see you next time.
I won't let my body out me outwait everything that
I'm made done, won't spend my life trying to change.
I'm learning love who I am, I get, I'm strong,
I feel free, I know everybody of me. It's beautiful.
And then he'll always out way if you feel it,
(00:24):
but you she'll some love to the food. By you
have there, say good day and did you and die out?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Hey hey leanne here and I hope you enjoyed this
series with doctor Chip Dodd. Here on outweigh and if
you want to learn more about how I teach my
own clients to turn off the part of their brain
that's obsessed with food, obsessed with their weight, and rewire
their own brain for peace and freedom, then head on
over to Stressless Eating dot com, where I've literally peeled
back the curtain and walked you through the exact strategy
(00:58):
I teach my clients to heal themselves from the all
or nothing diet mentality for good, but without restricting themselves,
punishing their bodies, and definitely without ever having to use
words like macros, low carb or calorie burn. It is
all over there for you to access over at stressless
seating dot com. Well Happy, Saturday outwigh. It is me
(01:21):
LeAnn here back for an episode where we're actually here
with our beautiful guest, Chip Dog, where we're going to
do a series. It's a four part mini series called
Why We Numb The Real Root of coping Mechanisms. So hello, Chip, Hey.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Good see you. I love you, brought your good energy again.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Oh, thank you so much, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Well. Sonia even commented, she said she's heard you, and
she said she just has great energy. I love her energy.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
So thank you so speech. I appreciate that. Well, I
love yours, and I'm so grateful for you to be
here because this, you know, the topic of this series
is about why we Numb and coping mechanisms. But really,
you know, so many people identify as an addict or
they don't even know that their compulsive behaviors of weighing themselves,
the body IMOGIP session, the food obsession really takes over
their brain and there's so much shame with it. And
(02:08):
so there's no one better than you to be here
for this series. So just to brag on Chip for
just a second. He has been in the recovery world
for decades and he developed his own recovery system called
the Spiritual Roots System, and he took it into the
recovery world and then ran a treatment center for twenty
two years called the Center of Professional Excellence, and now
(02:29):
still in twenty twenty five, he's here spreading the love,
sharing his truth and the truth about what addiction is
and isn't and I mean so much more than that.
So you've probably know him best from his book The
Voice of the Heart, and we're going to share all
of the ways that you can find him. But he
was also on What's God Got to do with It?
So we'll link that in the show notes, But specifically,
we are going to be here for the next few
(02:51):
weeks talking about why we numb the real root of
coping mechanisms, and this is part one of this series.
Today we're going to talk about what is addiction really
okay and the coping mechanisms that become a trap because
a lot of us, I know, I'm talking to women
all the time that they think they identify as an
addict or they feel like something has this addictive pull
(03:13):
over them, but they don't necessarily know what it is.
So we're going to break it down for you. What
it looks like on a logic and reason level, on
a behavioral level, on a neuroscientific level. But first let's
just dive on in. So addiction, obviously we're talking about
this before. It's not just about the substance the thing.
It's about how we cope or how we use the thing,
or who we're being in the face of the fin
whether it's food, you know, social media, weight obsession, whatever
(03:37):
it is, right, and so how behaviors like emotional eating
and over exercising and workaholism and even social media addiction
follow those same patterns. So can we talk about what
is addiction?
Speaker 3 (03:48):
The simplest definition that I have for addiction is it
ends up being an intolerance for vulnerability, and intolerance vulnerability
and vulnerability means openness to being affected, to being wounded,
to being seen exposed, to being needy, all the things
(04:09):
that sort of like our mythology of society says, you've
got to be stronger than how you're made. And so
really and truly addiction is an attempt to escape how
we're actually created, to run away from how we're made.
There's a saying that the suppression of expression equals depression,
(04:31):
and I don't mean the clinical depression. I'm talking about
depressing how we're created. That we actually are told somewhere
along in our lives that what you're bringing to this
need for connection is not what we're looking for, So
we attempt to disconnect from ourselves. And so almost every
person who's addicted, whether they realize it or not, grew
(04:53):
up in an environment where they were the heart of
who they are, feedings, needs, desire, longing, and hope was
oppressed pushed away, and then that person becomes obsessed with
the need to belong and matter at the same time
without being who I'm really made to be as an
expressive person. So the need to belong and matter is
(05:17):
still there, but I can't do it like I'm created,
So I practiced not being myself. So that's what oppression
turns to obsession, obsession with control, and then that turns
into possession. And so as crazy it sounds at first,
the thinking takes over the frontal lobe, the executive functionings
(05:39):
takes over for the heart, so it becomes a mind
over heart problem rather than a heart actually overmind. So
recovery is about returning to how we're created.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Wow, and so beautifully put that it's an escape from
who we are, or we never got we never felt
safe to be all of who we are. This is
somewhere along the line we picked up a storyline or
a belief that if I just could go control that
obsess over that, then that'll fill this need. And it
wasn't conscious, We didn't consciously know we were doing it, right,
But so powerful to hear that because so often addiction
(06:13):
and compulsion is categorize as just this physiological thing, and
that's the cause and effects, you know, cascade. But really,
what you're saying I so agree with and what I'm
finding with you know, all of the women that come
through my program, is that it starts at the mental, emotional,
spiritual side of it. And when you address that, then
you might also need to make some altercations.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
In the physical realm.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Right absolutely, but that's when everything is possible so soon, and.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
I would even say it even starts, if we wanted
to make a pinpoint start. It actually starts with this
idea that we can't accept ourselves emotionally. It's not our
faults of their problem, it's not even our actions out
of their problem. It's actually that somehow or another it's
not okay the way I actually feel. And that's where
the Voice of the Heart book is about our core feelings,
(06:59):
soting literally the core feelings of how we're created, which
actually open up the door to needs and desire and longings.
So guess what, Once we're growing up in an oppressive place,
oppressing the heart, we don't get to practice learning how
to live. We don't get the practice figuring things out.
(07:20):
We don't get the practice making mistakes. And almost every
bit of learning in life is about practice, which is
vulnerability being seen. So it's almost like we have to
have the answers before we arrive at the problem. We
have to have the answers before we get the questions.
And that becomes the external validation versus internal risking on
an external world, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
So we add ourselves and you just defined self rejection
at its core, that's where it starts. That's where you know,
it festers outward and then we go as humans. I've
done it too, and now I'm learning is that like
you can't solve an emotional problem with logic and reason?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Amen, you know, keep on keeping to say more.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
That's it, Yes, it is, absolutely, and that's what we do.
So coming back to you know, I love how you
set the stage for this, where this starts, where the
problem is, where it starts, what the real problem is
and what it isn't So when we're talking about now
the difference between addiction and coping mechanisms, because a lot
of people might not say, well, yes, I'm realizing that
I'm coping with something, whether they don't know what it is,
(08:21):
with food, you know, numbing out on social media, Netflix, whatever, versus.
I talk to a lot of women who are on
the other camp where they're like, no, Leanne, I am
an addict, right, and they swear they're an addict to
sugar specifically. So you know, there's some coping mechanisms that
can actually help us heal and actually comfort right and
do good, versus others that keep us stuck and create
(08:41):
a toxic cycle. So can you share a bit about
the distinction between not just addiction and coping mechanisms, but
strategies that heal and some in those of them.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yeah, you know interesting, a coping mechanism can be part
of an addiction. A coping mechanism that can be part
of an addiction, and an addiction is also a form
of coping if you're attempting to escape one thing, So
coping an addiction becomes synonyms if you're attempting to use
(09:13):
your actions to escape having to do one thing, you're
trying to get away from feeling because even of books
about stress management, coping strategies for stress, even those things
can be used to try to escape having to be human,
having to be in need, having to feel so recovery.
(09:34):
Whether it's the use of coping or addiction itself. See,
addiction is not a badness, it's not an evil. It's
an attempt to have normal needs met without having to
be in need. And coping strategies are a way to
make sure that we put ourselves in positions so that
we have a place to go where who we are
(09:57):
and how we live, who we really are is received.
So the coping strategies need to be actions we take
to stick around people and be with people who can
receive us as God made us as feeling creatures who
have needs, desire, longings, and hope. And we can find
the places to struggle with others who are doing the
(10:18):
same versus struggling and with those who judge us for
being human.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
So coping strategies need to be getting around people who
have the same strengths we have of being human so
we're able to tolerate an inhuman world.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, and if you're how to be safe in who
we are and this being safe, it's one thing to
I identify that I'm not safe and like have an
idea of like, oh what would be safe, But to
be in practice living out being a human being all
of who you are around people where you're safe, that
is everything.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
And the safety is actually a place where you can
practice being yourself and then go out into a world
that may not receive it, but you can still practice
being yourself in that world and then come back and resustain. See.
Because we're made for relationship. I mean even neuroscience, more
than ever before, finally has awakened to what we've known forever.
(11:10):
Do you come out of the womb looking for who's
looking for you? That we're created to find fulfillment relationship
and people who are addicted or coping to hide their
feelings all right, or trying to get relationship without having
to be in need. So we need to be in
the places where we can be ourselves so we can
cope with the world that isn't very interested in who
(11:32):
we are. It doesn't mean that you try to hide
from the world. You have the strength to go live it.
And how do we have the strength to go live
in the world. We do that through having relationships that
we're security and we belong in matter.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
And it comes back to what you literally started with
with just this concept of vulnerability, where it's like, where
does that even fit into addiction? Might some people be thinking,
but you just said it. It's this idea of not
a feeling like we can't go be in need. It's
what's causing the addiction, and that's a vulnerable place to be,
to be like, no, I need connection and we yeah,
there's a world of true efficiency exactly. It's not a desire,
(12:06):
it's a require. And so obviously my you know, my
mind is.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Please repeat that, it's not a desire, it is it
is a required.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
And I love that you brought up the geeky neuroscience
stuff because one of the things I'm talking about all
the time is the anterior singular cortex. It's my favorite
part of the brain. It's the social brain, and it's
bigger in females and more active and that's where I
to oversimplify it. What I teach my clients is that
that is where our addiction and compulsion lives, because it's
not what's happening is we're being over fed by dopamine. Right,
(12:36):
these hits of dopamine. That again, now we know what
that dopamine is a response to, of not of being needed,
but not feeling comfortable to go be air quotes needy, right,
or receive that support and that connection that we need,
not just desire, but require. But so what's happening is
we're going.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
To describing even though that need to get hits of
dopamine to get relief hits a relieve ourselves for anxiety exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, but that what happens is that initial hunger what
we're really needing, which is oxytocin. By connection, we are
feeding dopamine. So therefore our brain is being overfed and undernourished.
And it's a cycle cycles level.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
And I want your audience to hear that it's not
either or we're made to experience dopamine because we're made
to have relief from flight flight freeze and a piece Okay,
but the thing that dopamine won't answer that both and
and part. We're craving dopamine from a standpoint of relief,
but we're even more craving oxytocin for life giving experience.
(13:35):
So dopamine relieves, oxytocin grants us a full life. One's
a life giving chemical, one's a life relieving chemical. Yes so,
and oxytocin occurs. But we can bring how we're made
and who we're made to be to people who can
receive that. And also people can come get the same
thing from us. Absolutely, so recovery ultimately, no matter what
(13:56):
what you're recovering from, recovery ultimately is too. I admit
that I don't have control of life, and the more
I try to control it, my life becomes unmanageable. And
then number two, I become somebody others can come to
to receive oxytocin, and I have people to go to
to get oxytocin in no worries. Not only am I safe,
(14:19):
but I'm cared about and that strengthens me to go
risk being myself in a world that's not very interested
in me, or a world that is coping with sickness
or addicted and leanne. You and I both know that
and so many people talk what the pandemic really is.
We talk about the pandemic was COVID, and that became
(14:39):
a word that everybody knew suddenly. But the real pandemic
in our society is addiction because there are over two
hundred million plus people who carry addiction. And addiction ultimately
is about running from feelings. So guess what if you
deal with feelings in a healthy way, you get recovery
(15:01):
from that which would silence you, numb you, knock you out,
anesthetize you, or literally control your life to the standpoint
that even when you walk and outside your own home,
you're obsessed with the appearance of what people think about
what you look like. And the only power hits are,
the only sense of security you have is somebody affirming
(15:22):
your outsides, but nobody really being interested in your insides.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Absolutely and insights healss even just a stack on that,
because what you said is just so beautiful, I believe
are The first thing is like, we have to become
interested in our insights, Yes you know what I mean,
and they'd run away from yeah, absolutely, and learn how
to be emotionally available to ourselves. And a lot of
times that means going and getting support and being in need. Right,
But we have to learn to wake that ticker up
(15:47):
because a lot of women, specifically that I work with,
and I know it's men too, we're to sensitized. We
don't even know when those alarm bells are going off anymore.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
That is so true. And there really is a thing
called denial. And denial does not mean you're life. Denial
means you really don't see, means you're blind. I was
talking to a woman this morning and she went to
her first adult Children of Alcoholics meetings, and she wasn't
raised in an alcoholic home, but it's for dysfunctional families. A
dysfunctional family is a feeling that doesn't deal with feelings
(16:16):
in a healthy way period. And she said that she
shared a little bit, and then she said that all
these other people shared, and she said, I just kept thinking,
me too, me too, And she said, I've never met
these people my whole life, and I felt like it
was okay. But and that's how you that's how you
(16:37):
know you're getting into recovery when you go to a
meeting and you look around and you're not going, that's
not me, that's not me. You're actually going this is
me too, your home now very quickly. But all of
us are born to have a home, and then if
you don't have a home, you still look for one. Okay,
what is a home? A home is a sanctuary, and
(16:58):
it's a place where the front porch lights always on,
the door's always unlocked, and the table set ready for
your return, and there's someone there who says, oh, no, no, no,
I'm doing the cooking, the cleaning. I'm taking care of
you until you can take care of you. And so
we all need that place where we can bring our neediness.
(17:20):
And then once addiction kicks in, we don't believe a
place like that exists or not for me, because I'm
not worth it. And the thing is, you're born worth it.
And if you don't know you're worth it, then it's
not that it went away, it's that it got buried
by the people who you needed to be home with.
(17:42):
So almost all addiction and all of our coping sicker
coping skills are all about front I hate to say
it this way, but what happened to the feelings in
your growing up experience? If you come from a place
of feeling, you're almost certainly not going to wind up
in a position of position called addiction.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Absolutely. And I'll just finish by saying this because I
have to plug your Voice of the heartbook for just
a moment. But I think a lot of people think
they have to go dig up all of the skeletons.
It's the braveyard from the past. And what I talk
about is like you can get very yes you want
to become aware of it, but get out very right now,
solutions focused and almost start like adulting yourself through these
feelings that never got reconciled. And so if you're looking
(18:21):
for a tool to do that, the Voice of the
Heart is just it's literally a guide of how to
feel and to it'll you'll be able to recognize where
you fit in the spectrum of almost you know, the
suppressing of it versus you know how to health use
a healthy coping mechanism to experience your feels before we
dive off. Can how can people find you?
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Stock? You find out all the chipdod dot com and
you'll you'll get into chip DoD resources, free resources recommendations,
and it takes you also to the Living with Heart
podcast Living with Heart from Birth to Death and then
of course, it takes you to eight different books that
(19:01):
I've written. In fact, the Voice of the Heart is
a seminal work. It was written a long time ago.
It was the first emotions book actually written in terms
of if we look at in terms of bibliograhy, it's crazy.
I didn't know that was writing the first emotions book.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
You know now like so widely and popularity used by
all therapists. Yes, that's how we found everywhere.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, yes, and you know what it came out. It
came out to the sounds of crickets. And now it's
become like almost like it was a little far ahead. Yeah,
And actually all it did was named something ancient. We're
created as creatures who were made for relationship, and that
heart actually really is created to take precedence over our thinking.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Absolutely, And we did a whole episode all about the
Voice of the Heart, so I will link that in
the show notes from the Godpod. But don't worry, we're
not done because we're going to be back next week
with episode two of this series where we're going to
talk about why we numb and the real reason we
avoid pain and seek comfort. So we got into it
a bit today, but we're going to get to go
narrow or deeper, so we will see you next time.
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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