March 22, 2025 • 18 mins
OUTWEIGH: Why do we turn to food, alcohol, shopping, or even busyness when life feels overwhelming? In this episode, Chip and Leanne dive into the real reason we numb—what we’re actually trying to escape or avoid—and how society conditions us to suppress rather than process emotions. They break down the neuroscience behind coping mechanisms, revealing why they provide short-term relief but lead to long-term suffering. If you’ve ever wondered why breaking free from old habits feels impossible, this episode will give you the clarity you need to start shifting your patterns.
Visit Chip's website at: ChipDodd.com
You can order your copy of Chip's book, The Voice of the Heart: A Call To Full Living HERE.
Listen to the Living With Heart Podcast HERE.
Leanne Ellington // StresslessEating.com // @leanneellington
To learn more about re-wiring your brain to heal from the all-or-nothing diet mentality for good....but WITHOUT restricting yourself, punishing your body, (and definitely WITHOUT ever having to use words like macros, low-carb, or calorie burn) check out Leanne's FREE Stressless Eating Webinar @ www.StresslessEating.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I won't let my body out me outwait everything that
I'm made done, won't spend my life trying to change.
I'm learning love who I am, I get, I'm strong,
I feel free, I know everybody of me. It's beautiful.
And then he'll always out way if you feel it,
(00:24):
but you she'll some love to the food. By you
have there, say good day and did you and die out?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Hey?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Hey, leanne here and I hope you enjoyed this series
with doctor Chip Dodd. Here on outweigh and if you
want to learn more about how I teach my own
clients to turn off the part of their brain that's
obsessed with food, obsessed with their weight, and rewire their
own brain for peace and freedom, then head on over
to Stressless eating dot com, where I've literally peeled back
the curtain and walked you through the exact strategy I
(00:58):
teach my clients to heal themselves from the all or
nothing diet mentality for good, but without restricting themselves, punishing
their bodies, and definitely without ever having to use words
like macros, low carb or calorie burn. It is all
over there for you to access over at stressless seeding
dot com. Hey, hey, and happy Saturday Outweigh. We are
(01:21):
back for part two of this four part mini series
here with doctor Chip Dodd.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Hello, good, good to see you.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yes, good to have you back. Last week was a
powerful conversation if you missed it, we got into what
is addiction really right, not just the you know, theoretical
version of it, but we talked about it on a
science level, on a logistics level, and then of course
on a cause and effect level, from where it's truly rooted,
which is in the heart, in the feelings, in the
soul and the spirit. So we are back now to
(01:49):
talk about why we numb and the real reason we
avoid pain and seek comfort. And so last week we
talked a little bit about, you know, why we turn
to food and alcohol and shopping and relationships, even busyness
like hustling for our worthiness nowadays has become a bit
of an addiction. But what we're really trying to escape
or avoid? So can we just you know, we pick
(02:11):
up from where we were last week when we're trying
to escape or avoid, like what is that? What are
we doing and why are we turning to those coping mechanisms?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
With you this is going to sound strange at first,
but we actually, and this is going to probably sound
very strange, we have two enemies. We have society at
large that measures everything externally and judges accordingly, right, judges
like that. And then our real primary enemy is the
brain itself. Now I don't mean the whole brain, okay,
(02:41):
but the brain is doing exactly what it's made to do.
I'm talking about our frontal lobe logic and our executive
functioning is created to find places where there isn't pain.
So your brain as the organ is actually a comfort seeking,
pleasure seeking instrument doing what's made to do, which means
pain avoidant. Okay. So your brain is doing its job
(03:05):
to helping you avoid honestly having to feel and having
to be, indeed, or having to be in situations in
which you are vulnerable, which means don't have control. Okay. Now,
so your brain is oddly pain intolerant. That's how come
your thinking can't sob can't bring you to healing because
your thinking is opposed to what it takes to heal.
(03:27):
All right, So, but your brain is intolerant for pain,
and here's the beauty. Your heart is pain tolerant. Okay,
I mean your emotional center of your being is a
pain tolerant place. You don't have to like the pain,
but you find that somehow or another, you're capable of
(03:48):
tolerating the pain. Love is painful, child bearing is painful.
Recovery is painful. And a woman named Marian Diamond, she
was the inventor of neuroplasticity, which is where we get
the idea that the brain could be changed from where
it was to a different place. This is nineteen sixties,
and she was disregarded for two three decades almost And
(04:11):
she's the one that came up with the phrase use
it or lose it. And so she discovered there are
five ways to create what she called brain health. But
the truth was she actually had discovered, in my opinion,
she had actually discovered the five ways that the heart
overcomes the brain, and so that we will quote choose
(04:33):
health over comfort, and the five ways for us to
be maximum maximumly fulfilled. She said she discovered nutrition, exercise, risking,
seeing new things, taking on challenges, and love. I mean,
these things were scientifically proven. But if you'll notice all
(04:53):
five of those things, eating, healthy, exercise, seeing new things,
taking on challenges, and love, all five of them require pain.
We have to delay gratification for benefits. And so if
you're not raised in a world where feelings are forms
of strength. See now we're being raised more than ever before.
(05:16):
Children are being raised with having feelings, but the feelings
in so many ways because the parents don't trust them.
The feedings become permission to not have to risk, rather
than yes, you're gonna feel it, but I'll be here
when you're done. Yes okay, versus don't feel it. And
so many of us came from a don't feel it
and now there's great permission to feel, but nobody could
(05:36):
tolerate them. So there's a tweeer world. It's called delay
gratification for benefit, and all of recovery is about taking
the risk of having feelings to delay gratification. But it's
a promise of gratification being better than satisfaction. When I
eat an apple pie muffin, I mean just go down
(05:57):
the list. It hits the blood brain barrier seconds. If
I eat healthy, I have to wait for the benefit
to upcome. And it all has to do with feelings
like I won't be okay your brain, and your brain
is literally saying, look, you can do this tomorrow. Let's
wait till tomorrow. I promise tomorrow will be a great day,
(06:18):
but tonight for right now. And then when we go
do the thing that that makes us comfortable, we wind
up judging ourselves for being weak, and we weren't weak.
We're not weak. We're doing what the brain is, the
brains telling us to do to avoid feeling because your
brain is a mechanism that says, I want to take
care of you, right.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
And that's why it's so important for us to learn
and take back ownership from our brain and influence it
in the direction that it needs to go rich than
having it drive us around.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yes, rabbit, So but what is it that takes control
of the brain, And it's the one thing we run
from heart? The heart. I know it sounds so weird,
but the heart is created by God to take precedence
over the brain. In fact, the God piece here and
Proverbs four twenty three says above all else, I mean,
(07:07):
like above everything else. It says guard your heart, and
it doesn't mean unlock it in prison it be set
it free and treasure it both. It's very valuable part
of you to guard your heart above all else, because
out of it flow all the issues of life. Another
translation says, because it's the well spring of life. So
(07:27):
if you don't know your heart, you'll never be free.
If you don't have your heart, you'll never be courageous.
If you don't have your heart, you can't be really curious.
Everything's about controlling rather than experiencing. Wow.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
And so if you have ever heard yourself feeling like
or identified with this whole, you know, short term gratification trap.
Not only did you just get the neuroscientific explanation from
doctor chip DoD over here, but also you know again
you cannot solve a logical problem or emotional problem with
this logic and reason, you know, And it's.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
A hard In fact, all addiction is a logic problem. Yeah.
In other words, it's trusting the logic too much. If
I do this, I'll get that. If I get that,
I'll do this if I do and your logic will
always take you away from having to deal with feelings.
They'll always win every draw. Yeah, every one of us
who goes and does something that we know ahead of
time is going to hurt us, right, and we do
(08:20):
it anyway. It's not because we're stupid, it's because the
logic said go there absolutely avoid feeling.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah, And I have so many conversations with these highly
intelligent women and they're likely Anne, I'm so good everything else,
And I tell them this is not an intelligence problem.
This is not lack of thing you know it is. Really,
it's so much deeper, and it's hardwired. It's a product
of cause and effective. A lot of times, decades or
a lifetime of these practices where the brain has gotten hijacked.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Hijack, or is the doing the hijacking and gets hijacked,
and people are very successful through their thinking. Almost most
of the people that I treated years ago at the
Center for Professional Excellence, most of those people were highly influential,
highly highly achieved, super people, pleasing people. I'm talking about politicians,
(09:06):
the lawyers, the doctors, and so on, male and female.
I remember I would say to them, Look, you're intelligent, amazingly.
I know you're smarter than I am. I know that
you have the willpower of like a rhinoceros. You know,
I mean your toughest nails. You couldn't endure what you've endured,
(09:26):
even residency for example, in medical schools. And you're moral,
I mean, you seek perfection. So it's a form of
morality if nothing else. You know how to hide your
secrets because you fear being judged. But you're so smart,
you're so tough, and you're so strong, but you look stupid,
you look weak, and you look bad. But we know
you're not, because it's proven that you're not. So you
(09:46):
don't have an intelligence problem, you don't have a willpower problem,
you don't have a moral problem. You have a heart problem, honestly,
not taking a risk of trusting honestly, that limbic system,
that part of your b that is the emotional center
and the long term memory center.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Yeah, you know, yeah, the elephant that never forgets that
have boganfans. So let's talk about avoidance, Okay, because this
is a big one, no matter who's listening. I know
we've all that can be procrastination, avoidance, numbing. So let's
talk about avoidance. Why does that happen? And I feel
like there is not that we're making this a you know,
society's bad conversation, but there is a societal pattern of
(10:28):
kind of teaching us to numb instead of process avoidance
and how that just continues that disconnect ourselves.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, you talk about that avoidance is actually just an
impaired expression of wisdom. And what I mean by that
because see wisdom, wisdom is because I've experienced life, I've
learned from it, and I know how to process the
feelings of it. Wisdom becomes a sense of intuitively knowing
when to do something and when not to. Avoidance is
(10:56):
a beat up form of wisdom that says, I don't
want to have to feel that, I don't want to
have to risk that, I don't want to be told
I'm wrong. So avoidance becomes like a beat up form
of wisdom and also a demand for perfectionism, like I'm
not even gonna step into yeah. And so it's part
(11:16):
of the control addiction and ultimately in all addiction, all
impairments related to addiction, because the core addiction is control addiction,
that out of which comes all the expressions of our
multi layered, multi dimensional, multi factorial expressions of the sickness
(11:39):
of addiction. Whether it's like the disordered eating eating disorders,
it could be you know, like the drug of choice.
In this area, it can be believe it or not
taking something very healthy and taking it to extremes. It
was like even spinning things to avoid having to face things.
I mean, the politicians expert tease is the addiction of spinning,
(12:02):
and it's an addiction to avoiding, to have to avoid
having to actually stand up and say this is where
I am, this is what I feel, because we're trying
to keep ourselves brain safe rather than carry the taught
integrity of their own hearts. That makes sense, absolutely, okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
No, for sure.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
And then the avoidance itself becomes its own identity of
like the well, this is just what I do and
this is who I am, and then they forget that
again it's just and then there's a numbing that comes
with the avoidance because you don't even know what you're doing,
like what you're hiding from anymore. So a lot of
times I'll ask a woman, you know, why does she
think it is that she's not able to do? Is
(12:41):
there something? Is there a story that she's telling herself,
a thought that she's thinking, a fear that she has,
And the answer often is like, I don't even know.
I've never asked myself.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
That's great, that's a great question you're asking. And avoidance
is always about not having to touch a feeling. I
don't know what to do with. I mean, avoidance is
about not having to feel. I know it sounds you know,
I sound like I'm what one trick pony, But I'm
telling you it's the most astounding thing every one of
our problems that isn't just truly a sort of genetic
(13:14):
neurophysiological purely you know, like a brain's broken, so to speak.
Every one of our problems has to do with avoiding,
over extending, reacting to doing everything we can to keep
from having to do one thing. Feel our feelings, tell
the truth about them, and trust that there's a process
(13:36):
that allows us to heal from even feelings we don't
want to have. That's it. I know it sounds so well.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I think people need to hear the oversimplification because I
think that what a lot of people are being told
is that it is a willpower problem. In order to
you need to avoid restrict control, which is creating more
of the problem absolutely versus like, well, why don't we
look at what hole am I trying to fill avoid
of with food, social media, whatever, And how do I
learn how to become emotionally and spiritually available to myself
in those moments rather than turning to food.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Jesus was so clear, unless you change and become like
and he said one of these. He was literally talking
about a three year old child standing at his knee,
and he said, unless you change and become like one
of these. And I just said something that every child
can understand, and every child already knows. What are you feeling?
(14:26):
What's the truth? What happened that you feel this way right?
And what do you want related to it? In other words,
there's a process that will bring you back to oxytocin,
which is the chemistry of truly being connected, life giving,
which is strength for the day we're all made to
have relationship with heart to heart.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I talk about oxytocin as being like the emotional safety hormone,
because it's like, if you don't feel emotionally safe, you
can't be or do anything.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Isn't it true too that oxytocin, if everything I've read
it I understand so far, is the only like neurochemical
that you can't produce synthetically.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
You can't produce it synthetically, And that's what all of
our addiction is an attempt to produce the relational connection
chemical without having dear risk.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Social brain, not this on licking reason and where the
dopamine is coming in. Yeah, you can so, but we're trying,
we're trying to produce it. We're chancing after that quick high,
that quick hit, rather than learning. And it's not even
like we talked about last week. We're not doing it
on purpose. Our brain is doing it without our consent,
and that's where we need to get in there and
do some you.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Know me, you know when you said like once, we're
sort of like blocked in heart. Once we sort of
have noum to our hearts and we're not able to
receive oxytocin. We're still in search of it. Like this is,
as example, just you and I doing this podcast today,
this episode today, when we're when it's finished, you and
(15:57):
I will have had an oxytocin experience. It's not just
babies being born to touch with caregivers. But I have
to be willing to believe it. You have to be
willing to believe it because in the last episode that
we did after it was always like hey, you said
that was good. I'm like, yeah, I think that was good.
But will I believe it? Because if I can't receive it,
(16:18):
which means trust another person, I won't get the oxytocin.
So I've got to be able, and we all have
to be able to ask you mean it, you tell
the truth. We all have to be willing to doubt
the people who are caring about us, not just oh
thank you or reject. See avoidance that you brought up.
Avoidance has everything to do with not trusting. And if
(16:42):
you can't trust, you can't receive. If you can't receive,
you remain isolated, and addiction is the ultimate best next choice,
rigid whatever.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Receivership is a teachable skill, like I don't need to
make it sound robotic like that, but it is like
open your heart and then the receivership receiving that not
just the oxytocin, but feeling worthy of love and belonging
to all.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Of those things. Even saying like I'm afraid to believe
you is a beginning of experiencing oxytocin. That chrisk you
say I'm afraid and be received and not rejected is
a trust experience, which is a life giving experience, which
is a skill that's been gained, which is a faith
that's been attained to Maybe I could do that again
and turn out Okay, we're renewing ourselves, we're regrowing all
(17:25):
that sort of thing. Seeding. Feeding's heal. You got to
feel it to heal it. You sure knew it. If
you can't seal it. Yeah, And it doesn't have it
doesn't always have to mean, like you said, go into
a graveyard and digging up every tasket in there.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Absolutely, it can be right now, right now, starting today,
right amen. I would love it. I love this conversation. Well,
we're going to be back next week where we talk
about healing from the inside out and breaking free from
the need to, not just like trying not to none,
but breaking free from that actual need to.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Where can you find it? Find me at chipdod dot
com see hip d d d dot com, also Spotify
at Amazon. The Living with Heart from Birth to Death podcast.
I really encourage people to listen to that because there's
so much in it. I get to be unbridled, which
is really good. And go beyond the Voice of the
(18:18):
Heart book. I mean, I'm getting to go way beyond
Voice of the Heart book.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
So those are two ways that I would love to
hear from people, and I'd love for people to get
on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Amazing Yeah, and definitely check out The Voice of the Heart.
You will not be sorry. We will be back next
week for the third part of this series, so we'll
see then. Bye, thank you.
I won't let my body out me outwait everything that
I'm made done, won't spend my life trying to change.
I'm learning love who I am, I get, I'm strong,
I feel free, I know everybody of me. It's beautiful.
And then he'll always out way if you feel it,
(00:24):
but you she'll some love to the food. By you
have there, say good day and did you and die out?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Hey?
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Hey, leanne here and I hope you enjoyed this series
with doctor Chip Dodd. Here on outweigh and if you
want to learn more about how I teach my own
clients to turn off the part of their brain that's
obsessed with food, obsessed with their weight, and rewire their
own brain for peace and freedom, then head on over
to Stressless eating dot com, where I've literally peeled back
the curtain and walked you through the exact strategy I
(00:58):
teach my clients to heal themselves from the all or
nothing diet mentality for good, but without restricting themselves, punishing
their bodies, and definitely without ever having to use words
like macros, low carb or calorie burn. It is all
over there for you to access over at stressless seeding
dot com. Hey, hey, and happy Saturday Outweigh. We are
(01:21):
back for part two of this four part mini series
here with doctor Chip Dodd.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Hello, good, good to see you.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yes, good to have you back. Last week was a
powerful conversation if you missed it, we got into what
is addiction really right, not just the you know, theoretical
version of it, but we talked about it on a
science level, on a logistics level, and then of course
on a cause and effect level, from where it's truly rooted,
which is in the heart, in the feelings, in the
soul and the spirit. So we are back now to
(01:49):
talk about why we numb and the real reason we
avoid pain and seek comfort. And so last week we
talked a little bit about, you know, why we turn
to food and alcohol and shopping and relationships, even busyness
like hustling for our worthiness nowadays has become a bit
of an addiction. But what we're really trying to escape
or avoid? So can we just you know, we pick
(02:11):
up from where we were last week when we're trying
to escape or avoid, like what is that? What are
we doing and why are we turning to those coping mechanisms?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
With you this is going to sound strange at first,
but we actually, and this is going to probably sound
very strange, we have two enemies. We have society at
large that measures everything externally and judges accordingly, right, judges
like that. And then our real primary enemy is the
brain itself. Now I don't mean the whole brain, okay,
(02:41):
but the brain is doing exactly what it's made to do.
I'm talking about our frontal lobe logic and our executive
functioning is created to find places where there isn't pain.
So your brain as the organ is actually a comfort seeking,
pleasure seeking instrument doing what's made to do, which means
pain avoidant. Okay. So your brain is doing its job
(03:05):
to helping you avoid honestly having to feel and having
to be, indeed, or having to be in situations in
which you are vulnerable, which means don't have control. Okay. Now,
so your brain is oddly pain intolerant. That's how come
your thinking can't sob can't bring you to healing because
your thinking is opposed to what it takes to heal.
(03:27):
All right, So, but your brain is intolerant for pain,
and here's the beauty. Your heart is pain tolerant. Okay,
I mean your emotional center of your being is a
pain tolerant place. You don't have to like the pain,
but you find that somehow or another, you're capable of
(03:48):
tolerating the pain. Love is painful, child bearing is painful.
Recovery is painful. And a woman named Marian Diamond, she
was the inventor of neuroplasticity, which is where we get
the idea that the brain could be changed from where
it was to a different place. This is nineteen sixties,
and she was disregarded for two three decades almost And
(04:11):
she's the one that came up with the phrase use
it or lose it. And so she discovered there are
five ways to create what she called brain health. But
the truth was she actually had discovered, in my opinion,
she had actually discovered the five ways that the heart
overcomes the brain, and so that we will quote choose
(04:33):
health over comfort, and the five ways for us to
be maximum maximumly fulfilled. She said she discovered nutrition, exercise, risking,
seeing new things, taking on challenges, and love. I mean,
these things were scientifically proven. But if you'll notice all
(04:53):
five of those things, eating, healthy, exercise, seeing new things,
taking on challenges, and love, all five of them require pain.
We have to delay gratification for benefits. And so if
you're not raised in a world where feelings are forms
of strength. See now we're being raised more than ever before.
(05:16):
Children are being raised with having feelings, but the feelings
in so many ways because the parents don't trust them.
The feedings become permission to not have to risk, rather
than yes, you're gonna feel it, but I'll be here
when you're done. Yes okay, versus don't feel it. And
so many of us came from a don't feel it
and now there's great permission to feel, but nobody could
(05:36):
tolerate them. So there's a tweeer world. It's called delay
gratification for benefit, and all of recovery is about taking
the risk of having feelings to delay gratification. But it's
a promise of gratification being better than satisfaction. When I
eat an apple pie muffin, I mean just go down
(05:57):
the list. It hits the blood brain barrier seconds. If
I eat healthy, I have to wait for the benefit
to upcome. And it all has to do with feelings
like I won't be okay your brain, and your brain
is literally saying, look, you can do this tomorrow. Let's
wait till tomorrow. I promise tomorrow will be a great day,
(06:18):
but tonight for right now. And then when we go
do the thing that that makes us comfortable, we wind
up judging ourselves for being weak, and we weren't weak.
We're not weak. We're doing what the brain is, the
brains telling us to do to avoid feeling because your
brain is a mechanism that says, I want to take
care of you, right.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
And that's why it's so important for us to learn
and take back ownership from our brain and influence it
in the direction that it needs to go rich than
having it drive us around.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yes, rabbit, So but what is it that takes control
of the brain, And it's the one thing we run
from heart? The heart. I know it sounds so weird,
but the heart is created by God to take precedence
over the brain. In fact, the God piece here and
Proverbs four twenty three says above all else, I mean,
(07:07):
like above everything else. It says guard your heart, and
it doesn't mean unlock it in prison it be set
it free and treasure it both. It's very valuable part
of you to guard your heart above all else, because
out of it flow all the issues of life. Another
translation says, because it's the well spring of life. So
(07:27):
if you don't know your heart, you'll never be free.
If you don't have your heart, you'll never be courageous.
If you don't have your heart, you can't be really curious.
Everything's about controlling rather than experiencing. Wow.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
And so if you have ever heard yourself feeling like
or identified with this whole, you know, short term gratification trap.
Not only did you just get the neuroscientific explanation from
doctor chip DoD over here, but also you know again
you cannot solve a logical problem or emotional problem with
this logic and reason, you know, And it's.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
A hard In fact, all addiction is a logic problem. Yeah.
In other words, it's trusting the logic too much. If
I do this, I'll get that. If I get that,
I'll do this if I do and your logic will
always take you away from having to deal with feelings.
They'll always win every draw. Yeah, every one of us
who goes and does something that we know ahead of
time is going to hurt us, right, and we do
(08:20):
it anyway. It's not because we're stupid, it's because the
logic said go there absolutely avoid feeling.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah, And I have so many conversations with these highly
intelligent women and they're likely Anne, I'm so good everything else,
And I tell them this is not an intelligence problem.
This is not lack of thing you know it is. Really,
it's so much deeper, and it's hardwired. It's a product
of cause and effective. A lot of times, decades or
a lifetime of these practices where the brain has gotten hijacked.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Hijack, or is the doing the hijacking and gets hijacked,
and people are very successful through their thinking. Almost most
of the people that I treated years ago at the
Center for Professional Excellence, most of those people were highly influential,
highly highly achieved, super people, pleasing people. I'm talking about politicians,
(09:06):
the lawyers, the doctors, and so on, male and female.
I remember I would say to them, Look, you're intelligent, amazingly.
I know you're smarter than I am. I know that
you have the willpower of like a rhinoceros. You know,
I mean your toughest nails. You couldn't endure what you've endured,
(09:26):
even residency for example, in medical schools. And you're moral,
I mean, you seek perfection. So it's a form of
morality if nothing else. You know how to hide your
secrets because you fear being judged. But you're so smart,
you're so tough, and you're so strong, but you look stupid,
you look weak, and you look bad. But we know
you're not, because it's proven that you're not. So you
(09:46):
don't have an intelligence problem, you don't have a willpower problem,
you don't have a moral problem. You have a heart problem, honestly,
not taking a risk of trusting honestly, that limbic system,
that part of your b that is the emotional center
and the long term memory center.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Yeah, you know, yeah, the elephant that never forgets that
have boganfans. So let's talk about avoidance, Okay, because this
is a big one, no matter who's listening. I know
we've all that can be procrastination, avoidance, numbing. So let's
talk about avoidance. Why does that happen? And I feel
like there is not that we're making this a you know,
society's bad conversation, but there is a societal pattern of
(10:28):
kind of teaching us to numb instead of process avoidance
and how that just continues that disconnect ourselves.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, you talk about that avoidance is actually just an
impaired expression of wisdom. And what I mean by that
because see wisdom, wisdom is because I've experienced life, I've
learned from it, and I know how to process the
feelings of it. Wisdom becomes a sense of intuitively knowing
when to do something and when not to. Avoidance is
(10:56):
a beat up form of wisdom that says, I don't
want to have to feel that, I don't want to
have to risk that, I don't want to be told
I'm wrong. So avoidance becomes like a beat up form
of wisdom and also a demand for perfectionism, like I'm
not even gonna step into yeah. And so it's part
(11:16):
of the control addiction and ultimately in all addiction, all
impairments related to addiction, because the core addiction is control addiction,
that out of which comes all the expressions of our
multi layered, multi dimensional, multi factorial expressions of the sickness
(11:39):
of addiction. Whether it's like the disordered eating eating disorders,
it could be you know, like the drug of choice.
In this area, it can be believe it or not
taking something very healthy and taking it to extremes. It
was like even spinning things to avoid having to face things.
I mean, the politicians expert tease is the addiction of spinning,
(12:02):
and it's an addiction to avoiding, to have to avoid
having to actually stand up and say this is where
I am, this is what I feel, because we're trying
to keep ourselves brain safe rather than carry the taught
integrity of their own hearts. That makes sense, absolutely, okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
No, for sure.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
And then the avoidance itself becomes its own identity of
like the well, this is just what I do and
this is who I am, and then they forget that
again it's just and then there's a numbing that comes
with the avoidance because you don't even know what you're doing,
like what you're hiding from anymore. So a lot of
times I'll ask a woman, you know, why does she
think it is that she's not able to do? Is
(12:41):
there something? Is there a story that she's telling herself,
a thought that she's thinking, a fear that she has,
And the answer often is like, I don't even know.
I've never asked myself.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
That's great, that's a great question you're asking. And avoidance
is always about not having to touch a feeling. I
don't know what to do with. I mean, avoidance is
about not having to feel. I know it sounds you know,
I sound like I'm what one trick pony, But I'm
telling you it's the most astounding thing every one of
our problems that isn't just truly a sort of genetic
(13:14):
neurophysiological purely you know, like a brain's broken, so to speak.
Every one of our problems has to do with avoiding,
over extending, reacting to doing everything we can to keep
from having to do one thing. Feel our feelings, tell
the truth about them, and trust that there's a process
(13:36):
that allows us to heal from even feelings we don't
want to have. That's it. I know it sounds so well.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I think people need to hear the oversimplification because I
think that what a lot of people are being told
is that it is a willpower problem. In order to
you need to avoid restrict control, which is creating more
of the problem absolutely versus like, well, why don't we
look at what hole am I trying to fill avoid
of with food, social media, whatever, And how do I
learn how to become emotionally and spiritually available to myself
in those moments rather than turning to food.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Jesus was so clear, unless you change and become like
and he said one of these. He was literally talking
about a three year old child standing at his knee,
and he said, unless you change and become like one
of these. And I just said something that every child
can understand, and every child already knows. What are you feeling?
(14:26):
What's the truth? What happened that you feel this way right?
And what do you want related to it? In other words,
there's a process that will bring you back to oxytocin,
which is the chemistry of truly being connected, life giving,
which is strength for the day we're all made to
have relationship with heart to heart.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I talk about oxytocin as being like the emotional safety hormone,
because it's like, if you don't feel emotionally safe, you
can't be or do anything.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Isn't it true too that oxytocin, if everything I've read
it I understand so far, is the only like neurochemical
that you can't produce synthetically.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
You can't produce it synthetically, And that's what all of
our addiction is an attempt to produce the relational connection
chemical without having dear risk.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Social brain, not this on licking reason and where the
dopamine is coming in. Yeah, you can so, but we're trying,
we're trying to produce it. We're chancing after that quick high,
that quick hit, rather than learning. And it's not even
like we talked about last week. We're not doing it
on purpose. Our brain is doing it without our consent,
and that's where we need to get in there and
do some you.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Know me, you know when you said like once, we're
sort of like blocked in heart. Once we sort of
have noum to our hearts and we're not able to
receive oxytocin. We're still in search of it. Like this is,
as example, just you and I doing this podcast today,
this episode today, when we're when it's finished, you and
(15:57):
I will have had an oxytocin experience. It's not just
babies being born to touch with caregivers. But I have
to be willing to believe it. You have to be
willing to believe it because in the last episode that
we did after it was always like hey, you said
that was good. I'm like, yeah, I think that was good.
But will I believe it? Because if I can't receive it,
(16:18):
which means trust another person, I won't get the oxytocin.
So I've got to be able, and we all have
to be able to ask you mean it, you tell
the truth. We all have to be willing to doubt
the people who are caring about us, not just oh
thank you or reject. See avoidance that you brought up.
Avoidance has everything to do with not trusting. And if
(16:42):
you can't trust, you can't receive. If you can't receive,
you remain isolated, and addiction is the ultimate best next choice,
rigid whatever.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
Receivership is a teachable skill, like I don't need to
make it sound robotic like that, but it is like
open your heart and then the receivership receiving that not
just the oxytocin, but feeling worthy of love and belonging
to all.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Of those things. Even saying like I'm afraid to believe
you is a beginning of experiencing oxytocin. That chrisk you
say I'm afraid and be received and not rejected is
a trust experience, which is a life giving experience, which
is a skill that's been gained, which is a faith
that's been attained to Maybe I could do that again
and turn out Okay, we're renewing ourselves, we're regrowing all
(17:25):
that sort of thing. Seeding. Feeding's heal. You got to
feel it to heal it. You sure knew it. If
you can't seal it. Yeah, And it doesn't have it
doesn't always have to mean, like you said, go into
a graveyard and digging up every tasket in there.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Absolutely, it can be right now, right now, starting today,
right amen. I would love it. I love this conversation. Well,
we're going to be back next week where we talk
about healing from the inside out and breaking free from
the need to, not just like trying not to none,
but breaking free from that actual need to.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Where can you find it? Find me at chipdod dot
com see hip d d d dot com, also Spotify
at Amazon. The Living with Heart from Birth to Death podcast.
I really encourage people to listen to that because there's
so much in it. I get to be unbridled, which
is really good. And go beyond the Voice of the
(18:18):
Heart book. I mean, I'm getting to go way beyond
Voice of the Heart book.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
So those are two ways that I would love to
hear from people, and I'd love for people to get
on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Amazing Yeah, and definitely check out The Voice of the Heart.
You will not be sorry. We will be back next
week for the third part of this series, so we'll
see then. Bye, thank you.
Feeling Things with Amy & Kat News
Host
Amy Brown
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