Why You Act The Way You Do In Relationships: Attachment Styles 101

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Okay, cats up thing little food for yourself life.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Oh it's pretty bad.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Hey, it's pretty beautiful, man, beautiful for that for little
more exciting because said he, You're kicking with full thing
with Amy Brown.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
Happy Thursday.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Four things Amy here, and I'm very excited for you
to hear today's chat about attachment styles and attachment theory.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Like if you've ever wondered.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Why you show up the way you do in relationships,
like you have certain relationship patterns, you feel anxious, avoidant,
or disconnected in relationships, whether romantic or platonic friendships in
the workplace, Today's episode is for you. Ty Skipson is
an ex divert and attachment theory and co founder of

(01:02):
the Personal Development School, and she is our guest. We're
diving into attachment theory, how it shapes our lives, relationships,
and even the way we see ourselves, which was a
huge standout for me. Now, before I play my chat
with Tays, I do want to remind you that Pimp
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Some don't know the backstory Pimp and Joy, So here
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There were crappy days, for sure.

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(05:18):
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chat with Tys on attachment styles. Great Happy Thursday for things.

(05:40):
If you have ever wondered why certain relationship patterns keep
showing up in your life, or maybe why you feel
anxious or avoiding or disconnected in relationships, today's episode is
for you. Tys Gibson is an expert in attachment theory
and she's co founder of the Personal Developments and she's

(06:01):
our guest. We're diving into attachment theory how it shapes
our lives, relationships, and even the way we see ourselves.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
So Tye, thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
I think a good place to start for those of
us that need a refresher, or maybe for anyone that's
new to attachment theory.

Speaker 3 (06:18):
Let's just start with out of the gate, what is
it and what are the four types?

Speaker 1 (06:22):
So attachment theory was originally studied by John Bowlby out
of Cambridge University and it's been like one of the
most studied bodies of work around. It's essentially the study
of how your relationships with your parents or caregivers as
a child affect your adult romantic relationships because we essentially
in our early relationship lives learn how to bond to people.
We learn what needs should be met in relationships, what

(06:44):
to expect, all by the way that we are parented
and taking care of in the home. And so there
are four major attachment styles, and one is the securely
attached style. Then there's the anxious attachment style we just
miss of attachment style, and then the fearful avoidant attack styles.
We'll break down maybe a little bit about how each
of those form and some symptoms of each one so

(07:05):
people can recognize themselves in this if they think they
may be one of these four. And I think it's
important to note as well, every person has an attachment style,
so it does affect every single person listening. So the
first attachment style is the secure and secure attachment styles.
In their childhood, they get a lot of what we
call approach oriented behaviors, so they basically get a lot
of when they're distressed or sad, the parents are attuned

(07:28):
to them and they recognize their distress and they go
towards them. They try to check in see what's wrong
with the child. And what this actually conditions a child
to feel and believe is that I can rely on people,
people are safe, I can trust that people will go
out for me and take care of me, and I
am worthy of being loved even if I'm sad or upset,
because even when I'm sad or upset, I still get

(07:50):
that care. So secure attachment styles make up roughly fifty
percent of the population. Some more recent data shows that
that's downtrending, so it's becoming less and less. And they
are the ones that also report as adults having not
just the longest lasting relationships, but I feel like they
actually thrive in their relationships the most, so feeling truly fulfilled.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
When it comes to the downtrending.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
Is there a reason in the research why that's happening.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
There are a lot of hypotheses for why. So one
of the first ones is that technology is playing a role.
You know, parents are distracted, people are distracted. We're not
as present, we're not as attuned, and that really is
providing that foundational component. So people are constantly with their children,
but they're on their phone, or they're busy, or you know,
technology is all around. Then there's that lack of attunement

(08:35):
that is one of the fundamental features that builds that
secure attachment connection. And then of course you know there
are other hypothesies that are like financial stressors for a
lot of people. A couple generations ago, usually there was
one parent who could often be at home with the
child and was the primary caregiver in that way. And
now we have a lot more stress in the world
because of the way the world is working, in the

(08:55):
financial pressures. You know, both parents are often working, children
are in daycare. So there's a lot of those sorts
of cultural features. And then you can make a lot
of arguments for the fact that the more attachment trauma
there is, you know, and the lack of resolution that
exists there, you know, when there's a lot of like
single parent households right now and things of that nature. Again,
all of these things are creating this lack of a

(09:17):
child being able to have that proper atonment, have that
those approach oriented behaviors in childhood, and so those are
probably some of those those threats that tie in.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
Okay, yea.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
I'm just very curious about that, especially as being a
mom to adopted kids and now as of twenty twenty three,
a single mom and you know, they're with me for
a week and then their dad for a week. But
we're both single and we're both doing the best that
we can and both working. But you know, with them
being adopted, they already have their own attachment styles.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
And the good news is though we can.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
All work towards secure we'll talk further into the episode
about that that there is some light there, right.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
One hundred percent, there is some light And you know,
even if you are a single parent, but you have
the awareness of attachment theory and how it works. That
has such a huge role. And I really stress on
the single parent part because back in the day when
I used to work with clients one to one, obviously
you're cold parenting, so it's more of a unique situation
and that's that's usually a little bit easier, but single
parents have it tough. I mean the amount of like

(10:14):
pressure to keep track of everything all the time, and
you know, there's a lot of weight on one person.
So we'll talk about strategies and all that good stuff,
but I just also want to acknowledge and like give
a shout out to people who are single parents or
could parenting, because it's not easy either. Like there's a
lot of pressure throughout the week on just one person.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
And secure attachment is the goal, right, And we're talking
about if kids needs aren't met in a certain way,
then they may not be secure. But what I've learned
as a parent is raising children and everything I've encountered
with that has also taught me a lot about myself,
and my stuff is coming to the surface, and I'm
realizing my attachment styles and then now dating, more attachment

(10:56):
stuff is coming out, and so it's just fun learning
about yourself through the different seasons of life. So this
conversation really is for anybody and everybody, And maybe you're
in a long term relationship, but you're curious how to
have healthier boundaries and communication with the people in your life.
This can help strong marriages and friendships and coworking environments

(11:16):
as well.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
One hundred percent your point, this affects all of our relationships,
like literally down to our co workers in the workplace.
Like all of these attachment patterns really have a huge influence.
And I'll go through the other three attachment styles. So
the three other ones are the insecurely attached styles. You can,
in a sense think of them as existing along a continuum.
So at one end of the continuum is the anxious
attachment style. This is somebody who usually grow grows up

(11:40):
in a home where there is either real or perceived abandonment.
So real abandonment would be something like you have your
parents together and one of them passes away in childhood,
or you know, real abandonment could also constitute as your
parents are together, then all of a sudden at nine
or ten years old, there is a divorce or splitting up,
and then one parent just really isn't ever as present

(12:00):
as they once were, and there's this deep abandonment that
takes place from that connection with that individual. Again, there's
a lot of ways to close the gap on those
things that doesn't usually have to show up in that
kind of sense, but an anxious attachment style if they
have that real abandonment or perceived abandonment where parents are
very loving but they work all the time, for example,
and kids are constantly with the grandparents or things like that,

(12:23):
and maybe the grandparents are not as secure or as
warm or loving. Basically, wherever there's that inconsistency, you will
see a child really fire and wire. This is how
we actually get our conditioning. Fire and wire. These no
patterns of fearing abandonment all the time, and so the
anxious attachment style. As an adult, they end up going

(12:43):
through an experience of clinging to people, calling and texting
a lot. They often just work very hard to maintain proximity.
So their primary focus and sort of fixation and a
relationship is how do I stay close to somebody and
avoid being abandoned again? Because they're actually trying to prevent
themselves from real life wounds that they had from childhood,
So they preoccupy themselves with thinking like am I good

(13:05):
enough for people? Will I be abandoned? Will I be
lovable enough? Am I worthy? Do people think I'm bad?
Or do they see that I'm a good person and
doing my best? Like there's a lot of those underlying fears,
and of course they will tend to present codependently in
their relationships as well. At the other end of the continuum. Basically,
the exact opposite in many many ways is the dismissive avoidance.
So dismissive wounds actually grow up with the opposing attachment strategy,

(13:28):
So they grow up basically with a lot of childhood
emotional neglect, either through enmeshment where the parents are so
consumed with the child needing their needs that they're not
able to actually attune to and connect with the child's
needs themselves, or the vast majority of the time parents
just don't have the ability to properly attune to the child.
And so what happens is we have this individual grow
up thinking, Okay, well, I can't get my needs met,

(13:52):
especially emotionally, really particular in relationship to their emotions. So
a dismissive on't may even find that they're shamed for
their emotions, are told out, don't be a cry baby,
go into the other room, don't bring your tears here,
tough enough, like these kinds of things that actually, at
the end of the day, are teaching a child. Okay,
this part of me that's emotional, that craves out of tunement,
it's not acceptable. So I'm just going to repress and

(14:14):
deny this part of me, and I'm going to become
really independent and try not to need people at all.
And that's the way that I'm going to feel better
off in my adult life. It's a way of having
some sort of control and still being accepted. And so
a lot of what you'll see is dismissible avoidance. In
their adult lives. They actually work very hard to avoid
vulnerability because they see vulnerability as a weakness, as something

(14:35):
shameful or defective about them. They think that their emotions
are bad and wrong, and so what you'll see is
any time people get too close to a dismissible avoidant,
they'll basically go into how can I sabotage this relationship
and push somebody away? Because I don't want to feel
vulnerable like this like I did in childhood and just
be stuck in a relationship without my needs being met.
So what happens is dismissible awoidance or the types of

(14:57):
individuals as adults that as you get closer to them,
they will push away or when things get real, they'll
suddenly sabotage and flee a relationship and they'll love to
be a lot slower to warm up in those early
days of relating as well.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
So in my experience, especially dating the last year, I
feel as though sometimes avoidance can show up as secure
in the beginning, where I thought I kind of understood
what was happening, we were on the same page. And
it's sort of just like with the breaks on something,
where I thought I was communicating with the secure situation

(15:30):
because that's what I'm working towards I wouldn't say that
I'm fully there, but I definitely have seen the growth
in myself and I acknowledge it. I didn't know if
there were beige flags or red flags what everyone will
call them, that we can look out for that might say,
are there questions we should ask early on, So don't
waste time thinking that someone is secure and then they
may not be, and not that there's not hope for work.

(15:51):
But also I'm doing so much work on myself and
I'll just be patient. If they want to go work
on themselves and we find each other again, that's fine.
But I don't know that I'm in the beginning trying
to get into a.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
Bunch of work.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
And I think that's very fair. So I think it's
to your point, like you're doing the work, and at
the very baseline, you should be having somebody in your
life if you're going to invest in them, who's also
doing the work if they're not securely attached, And I
think that's a very fair standard to have in relationships,
Like it's okay if somebody has a different attachment style
or isn't fully secure, but are they working towards security?
I think it's an important sort of vetting piece. So

(16:24):
there are definitely pieces, and I'll talk about the fearful
avoidant maybe just briefly in those patterns, and then we'll
go through all three of them and talk about how
to recognize them early on, because there are some key
indicators that alb actually can help you before having to
get into these really deep conversations and like really get
to know somebody over months and months. So the fearful
BOIDT is the last and secure attachment style, and they

(16:45):
almost share in sort of the anxious and avoidant side,
so sometimes they're also referred to as the anxious avoidant
attachment style. They really do have sort of booth continuums
or parallels in their attachment style, and so they usually
grew up in a household where there's a lot of
good elements of love and connection, but also a lot
of painful or scary ones. So you'll see that they're
the attachment style most sort of associated with like big

(17:08):
tea trauma, So things like having a parent who's an
alcoholic or who is a narcissistic personality disorder, or who
struggles with substance abuse, or just like a lot of
fighting chaos in the home, these types of situations where
they basically learn when love is there and love is good.
Like let's pretend that a parent is an alcoholic. You know,
when let's pretend it's mom. You know, when mom's sober,

(17:30):
she's amazing, she's sweet, she's kind, she's really loving. You
can tell she's really making an effort because she feels
guilty about how she acted when she was drinking too much,
and she there's these great moments of love and connection.
But then when mom is drinking, it's scary. You know,
she can be cruel or really difficult or extremely harsh.
And so it's situations like that where basically a child
grows up in a household where there's extremes, extremely good

(17:53):
moments and extremely scary moments, even things like having a
parent who's a narcissist. Like sometimes that parent is extremely loving,
love bombing, really shows up to the ends degree other
times they're extremely mean, harsh, critical, cruel even with how
they show up and treat a child. So because of
these extremes, this child grows up with those moments of
feeling like they're an anxious attachment style and feeling like,

(18:15):
oh my gosh, I want love. I don't want to
be abandoned. I really want connection. But they share in
the dismissive avoidant attachment style, where they're going, oh my gosh,
well love gets too close or too real. I've had
really painful and scary moments with love, and so I
don't want to really let it get too close. And
so as an adult, the fearful avoidant is constantly reading
between the lines, constantly looking for like incongruencies or to

(18:37):
see if somebody is lying or dishonest. They're a little
bit suspicious, even though they may not show it. And
they constantly are somebody who wants love, and they're sort
of like, come here, get close to me, and then
you get close and they're like get back. So they're
very hot and cold, very touch and go. They flipslop
a lot about should I stay or should I go
in a relationship, and they'll tend to be a little
more volatile as a result.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
I'll admit where I fall in the attachment style, and
I'm sure people are listening and maybe trying to figure out, well,
which one am I, But through my therapy, I'm anxious
to avoidant, so I can fall both ways and I
have to watch myself and again I don't want to
get into a pattern room. Maybe I'm like, oh.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
Why is any texting me? What happened? Did I do something?
And I'm trying to figure it out?

Speaker 1 (19:20):
And you have moments I'm assuming of like really shutting
down intensely or sort of pushing people away at least
in your history, if you feel overwhelmed or scared.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yes, and the flip flopping and constantly trying to figure
something out or feeling like I've done something wrong or
let me fix this when there's a thing of fix
yeah thing or it's not my responsibility to fix.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yes, one hundred percent and fear of all avoidant or
ages of WIS. They can also be very codependent, so
they can really move into this codependent space, and then
they'll usually feel taken advantage of, like they've given too much,
and then shut down and then feel guilty about shutting
down and then go back to being codependent again. It's tiring,
just too constantly second gangs everything and like constantly feel
like you have to read between the lens meet hyper

(20:00):
vigilant so and it's hard for all attachment cells in
their own way for sure, who are not securely attached.
So yeah, and it's beautiful at the same time though,
because I do believe that when you become ear insecure,
like when you do the work to become securely attached,
you also have the stupor powers of what it meant
to be an insecure attachment style, like to be resilient,
to be really empathetic, to deeply care, to know what
it's like to move through struggles and have that grit.

(20:23):
But you also then have be your insecure, which you
have all the secure patterns, so people really can get there. So,
first and foremost, a lot of insecure attachment styles do
appear secure at the beginning because their attachment style won't
show up in full force until two major parts of
their relationship. First and foremost, a lot of insecure attachment

(20:52):
cells do appear secure at the beginning because their attachment
style won't show up in full force until two major
parts of the relationship. Our number one is one who
actually built the attachment bond, so we won't really be
afraid and have all of our fears and wounds and
triggers come up until we've actually attached to somebody. It's
only then that we're like, WHOA, I feel really vulnerable,

(21:12):
and then you'll see all of our fears and wounds
really kind of rear their heads. So that's number one
and number two if listeners aren't already familiar, we have
six stages of our relationships. So we have the dating stage,
which is like the betting stage. Then we have the
honeymoon stage, and then we have the power struggle stage.
And if we make it through the power struggle stage,
which is statistically where most relationships will break up in,

(21:34):
then we move into the stability, commitment, and bliss stage.
The bliss stage is like the honeymoon stage, but you
know somebody so much more deeply. So the second place
you'll see somebody's attachment style show up is once they
built that attachment bond, but you'll see it loudest and
most clearly in the power struggle stage, because it's through
the power struggle that our masks are dropped and suddenly
we're starting to really be our true selves, and our

(21:55):
fears will come out more and the things that triggers
will come out more, and vice versa for partner, and
it can be a little bit confronting when we've just
come out of the honeymoon stage with the rose colored
glasses and everybody's on their bet behavior, and so you'll
really see somebody's attachment patterns magnified in that stage as well.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
So there's six stages, but for any given relationship, it
could happen at a totally different timeframe.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
Exactly. Once that bond is really built, like once we've
really developed feelings, you'll start to see glimmers if somebody's
true attachment style. But then in the power struggle stage,
you'll see it full force, like it's hard to miss
that point, and that's usually about two years into a relationship,
a year and a half sometimes at the earliest. The
power struggle stage can really go on for a long
time as well, so it can last for decades for

(22:37):
people if they stay in a relationship and yet never
know how to navigate their pattern. So going back to
how to recognize somebody's attachment style, you'll see basically early
stages if you're really looking closely, so anxious attachment styles.
Even before they start to show their attachment style, they
do have certain traits, so they tend to be very loving, charming,
charismatic in relationships. They try to their relationship along fast,

(23:01):
whether it's a friendship, coworking relationship, anything. They're kind of
like trying to really connect quite quickly with somebody, and
they're constantly doing little things that are thoughtful, So they're
bringing little gifts to people, or they're writing them little notes,
or there is a lot of like thoughtfulness that tend
to go into relationships. But you'll see their biggest core
wounds in relationships, So the things that they will get

(23:22):
the most triggered by, or even if you're getting to
know them and dating them and they're talking about the
things that would trigger them the most, it's being abandoned, alone, disliked,
excluded is a big sensitive point for anxious attachment cells, rejected, unloved,
and you'll see a lot of their time as you're
getting to know them, it's spent showing that they are
not those things, they're not worthy of those saying look,

(23:42):
I'm likable. They're really always trying to win people over.
So those are some early signs that you'll see of
anxious attachment cells. They also tend to, if you look
at their relationship history, go from relationship to relationship quite
quickly and repeatedly, so they're usually like jumping from one
dynamic to another dismissible guidance. On the other hand, they
are slower to warm up, so even if they seem
secure at the beginning, they usually are a little bit

(24:05):
stand offish, and they're moving a lot slower and they're
pacing generally, so they're not really quick to jump into
like making a commitment. You can see if you're looking
really close. So they're always trying to manage people's expectations
of them, Like, you know, even if you say something
really nice about them, they're often going, you know, don't
expect I'm going to be like this all the time.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
You know.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
They're always trying to sort of create a little bit
of that emotional distance, and they often won't share very
much about their inner feelings or deep personal things about
their past. They'll share about their like intellectual interpretation of
those things. So where a fearful avoidant or an anxious
attachment style may dive deep into saying something like, yeah,

(24:44):
when I was a child, this thing happened and it
really hurt me, it really affected me, they'd share like
how they were feeling, dismiss them avoidance. If they were
going to share something like that early on which first
of all, they probably wouldn't, but second of all, if
somebody did ask them like a pointed question, they'll say, I,
I think that I had a pattern as a child
where this happened. They won't share about what they were feeling,

(25:05):
what their experience was like, they'll kind of be opting
out of the emotional side of things. They're almost always
just talking about things from like their logical, practical interpretation
of things instead, and they'll use a lot more language
it says I think rather than I feel. So you'll
see a lot of those sort of themes. Commonly, they're
very grounded, very practical. They do not like to be

(25:25):
rushed to make decisions. They do not like to be
put on the spot. So those would be some early things,
if you're really looking, that would show that, okay, this
person may be more dismissive, avoidant. And also you'll see
in their relationship history they often don't make it through
a power struble stage in their relationships, Like often they
have a series of relationships that last maybe two years.
And that's you know, one thing, if somebody's twenty five

(25:47):
years old, but when somebody's thirty five, forty five, fifty
five and you're still seeing these patterns. You know, chances
are there they don't know how to be vulnerable, which
is one of the prerequisits to actually move through the
power struggle stage. Those would be some early red flags
a spot there. Fearful aboidance. They are great overgivers. They
are very generous, very charming, very likable. They are very deep.

(26:08):
They do not like to scratch the surface of things.
And you'll almost feel when you're first meeting a fearful
avoidant like they are so present that it can almost
be a little confronting, but it's also something that makes
people feel really seen and heard, and so people are
always opening up to fearful avoidance. But if you're paying
very close attention to the fearful avoidant orange is avoidance,
you'll see that they're really good at getting you to

(26:30):
open up, but they're not always really opening up much
about themselves. They're a little slower with that side of
the equation. And they will, you know, when it comes
to commitment or talks about commitment. They want to go deep,
they want to bond really fast, but they do get
cold feet around big commitments, things like making it exclusive,
moving in together, getting engaged, getting married, A lot of

(26:52):
those like Biger commitments, they'll really get cold feet around
unless they've done that work. And you'll also see if
you're trying to notice a fearful avoidant early on. They
are individuals who when you're with them are extremely present,
but when you're not with them, they can be a
little bit of the type of individual who's a little
bit out of side, out of mind, like can struggle
to text back quickly, or it sometimes kind of polarize

(27:13):
in their behaviors where they're like all in and then
they kind of go offline and disappear for a little bit.
So they're quite hot and cold in the way they
show up at times as well, even in those early
dating stages. So those would be some sort of p
early symptoms or traits to recognize in each one.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
So how can we identify our style? Like we're listening
right now, I'm like, okay, this sounds interesting. I kind
of see myself hidden maybe all of these are trying
to figure out which one I lean more towards.

Speaker 3 (27:39):
Where do people start?

Speaker 1 (27:41):
There's three major places. So the first one is your
core wounds, So the poor wounds for the anxious, we
talked about are like abandoned, alone, excluded, dislike rejected, unloved,
mythel woundings. Their big core fears and wounds are I
am defective. People see me as shameful or weak or stupid,
as a poor wound. If I open up too quickly
and safe to open up too quickly, I'm not good enough.

(28:02):
Can still be in there as a bit of a wound,
but a lot of those wounds are big places that
you'll start to see, Oh yeah, that's a big trigger
for me. I really resonate with that. Dismissive woids are
also really afraid of being trapped. Fear full avoidance share
in both sides, but they also have a big betrayal
core wound they constantly worry about, like somebody betraying them.
Even in the future. They're always thinking things like, how

(28:23):
can I trust that somebody will really stick around and
be loyal for the long term. How can I trust
that somebody will lie to me, you know, in ten
years about something really important. There's always this background not
knowing if you can really let your guard down and trust.
And then they share on the side of the anxious
and dismissive avoidant core wounds, but unique to the second
place that we want to look besides core wounds. If

(28:45):
somebody's trying to recognize themselves is you're activating versus deactivating behaviors.
So what that means is that if you're anxiously attached,
you'll find that ninety plus percent of the time your
focus is about how can I get closer to people?
How can I get closer to somebody? How can I
make sure that I'm like, you know, getting accepted or liked.

(29:06):
How can I make sure that we're staying together? And
when there's a fight or an argument, that person will
keep trying to get closer. They won't want to take
space dismith of avoidance. They have a lot of deactivating behaviors.
Ninety plus percent of the time they're constantly trying to
create space or distance after an argument, a fight, a disagreement,
they're worrying about things like commitment in the future and

(29:27):
how to minimize their attachment needs to people. If somebody
hurts them, they won't be quick to be like, oh, no,
they don't like me, how can I win their approval?
They'll be quick to sing things like, oh they're hurting me.
You know, I don't think I really need them anyways,
I'm not sure if this is going to work in
the first place. So they're always minimizing their attachment needs,
whereas anxious attachment cells are really kind of constantly maximize proximity,

(29:48):
maximize their attachment to others. Puriful avoidance, you will see
somebody who's truly if you're of avoidant, they range both
sides all the time, so you'll see a pretty clear
parallel where fifty ish percent of the time they activate,
fifty ish percent of the time they deactivate, so they
may constantly go from like one inflosis to pushing it away,
one in closest pushing it away. So really you're looking

(30:09):
at the range in your deactivating versus activating strategies to
see where somebody exists there. And then the major third
piece that you'll see where we can start to gain
insight to recognize which attachment style we are is our
childhood is our patterns when we really look at did
you come from a home where parents were really loving
but there was inconsistency or there was abandonment that was

(30:30):
real or perceived, And that was the big theme in
childhood that stung a little bit that was the most difficult.
Were you in a childhood where food was on the table,
everything was great, but neglect when it came to emotions
was the overall theme. You were shamed and criticized for
showing emotions and so there wasn't really attunement. It was
a lot of teaching too much independence at times. Or

(30:50):
did you grow up in a household where the overarching
theme was chaos where there was big tea or a
lot of small domdium t trauma that was constantly happening, happening,
walking on eggshells, And so those three things tend to
be the biggest leading indicators to help us see what
our attachment style is. Just listening to you talk about
what different experiences people may have had when they were younger,

(31:13):
it just helps you have grace and compassion for people
in your life if you know they may be responding
to in a certain way, and if you think about
it from where it's really coming from, it can help
a lot.

Speaker 3 (31:25):
Because I think some of this stuff causes us to
show up in very unhealthy ways.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
At least I know I have, and I try to
have grace for it now and hope that people have
had grace for me in the past when I haven't
shown up in a healthy way, and just knowing that
it's coming from a wounded place, I'm just thinkful. There's
so much more information out there now in ways with
YouTube and which I went down a rabbit ble on
on a lot of your YouTube videos and one that
I got obsessed with was how does a secure person

(31:50):
react to not being texted back? That you went over
signs of what the different ones are. Let's jump into
like that. Secure is the goal, right we all want
to be secure at least I hope. So I want
to ask you in a second, where do we start
with that? But I thought a little teaser into being
secure is how does secure person respond to an ignore text?

Speaker 1 (32:11):
Great question? So you rise something so beautiful and you said,
you know, I think it's so important to have compassion
and grace for ourselves and for other people because somebody
was a five year old child at one point being
neglected or when through a really painful abandonment or going
through trauma consistently depending on what their attachment style is.
And I think that's so important. And what a secure

(32:31):
person does well is they know how to have that
compassion and brace for themselves and others, while also not
allowing that to violate their boundaries in the process. And so,
you know, I often say, because it's such a thing
that you know, fearful winds have to work on, anxious
attachment selves have to work on. You feel so much
for other people, and you feel so much empathy that

(32:53):
sometimes by accident, you weaponize your empathy against yourself because
it's like you're so busy empathizing with what somebody else
is going through that you forget to have your own
boundaries and you're like, let me just take care of
them at my own expense, at my own running myself dry.
And so securely attached individuals they're so good at balancing
the ability to truly consider other people but honor their
standards at the same time and handle situations with grace.

(33:15):
So you know, if, for example, a securely attached person
wasn't texted back, you know, if they're feeling that, you know,
need hey, I like this person, I'm interested in this person,
and I'd like to see the needle move here, and
I'd like to see progress. They are able to not personalize,
they're not making it about them, They're not going, oh,
you know, they think I'm not worthy, they think I'm

(33:37):
not good enough. They're not like storytelling around it, which
is something that a lot of insecure attachment stylleves do
because of our pre existing core wounds. So they're not
making it mean things about them, which means they're less
likely to be triggered by the experience where they start thinking,
oh my gosh, I'm not good enough. Let me send
a word text to prove that I'm good enough or
earn my work with somebody. They're not going down those
rabbit holes. Instead, they're able to say, Okay, this person

(34:00):
is not texting me back. It's probably something going on
with them. Maybe they're busy, maybe they got caught up
at work or fell asleep or who knows. But I
want consistency in a relationship. I'm looking for somebody who
will show up consistently, and so what they'll do is
they'll be really clear on their needs and their boundaries,
and they're unafraid to communicate those things in a healthy way.

(34:21):
They're unafraid to go to that person and say, hey,
you know, I haven't heard from you at all today.
I'm thinking of you, and you know consistency is really
important to me in a dynamic that I'm getting to
know somebody in and would love if we can work
on that. And so because they're unapologetic about their needs,
but they're not doing it from a triggered space. When
they say something, they're able to come across and they're

(34:42):
messaging as being clear about their needs, they're letting somebody
know what it is that they're looking for. They're not saying,
what's wrong with you? I haven't heard from you all day.
They're not texting somebody from a blaming place like how
dare you? Or you know, why is this happening? Do
you even care about me? Like there's no accusation, there's
no turing around it. They're just like, hey, I'm looking
for consistency. Are you able to really do that? And

(35:04):
they will make sure that they vet according to that.
They make sure that they aren't just in that dating
stage where we're supposed to be vetting somebody and getting
to know somebody. They're not sitting there going okay, how
can I wait somebody's approval. They're there to truly look, okay,
I want to be a good fit for that person's
life and of course be liked and loved by that
person eventually, but I also want to make sure that

(35:26):
this person is actually also going to show up for
what I'm looking for in a relationship. So they're really
good at balancing both sides, and if they don't see
something they're looking for, they'll honor their standards.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
So is it the same type of communication even in
a friendship situation where you're not getting texted back, or
you maybe aren't invited to something that the other friend
group is going to and you're having an emotional response
to it. It makes you think of something which I
know You've been on Mel Robbins's podcast too, and she
introduced me to the let them theory of just sort

(35:59):
of do that. You just have to okay, let them,
don't take it personally, let them. So I know we
were talking about dating, but then makes any things to
have friendships and even the workplace if we feel like
maybe we didn't get picked for something and somebody else did,
or again the friend dynamic, we.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
May feel left out of something.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
How does a secure person respond in those situations.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
It's a great question. So one of the first things
is because they don't have those core wounds they're not
quick to jump to conclusions. So those core wounds we
talked about, like fearing being betrayed or trapped if you're dismissible, avoidant,
or anxiously attached, you know, fearing being abandoned or excluded.
Because there aren't these pre existing wounds from things we
felt in the past, a securely attached person with less

(36:44):
of those wounds isn't going to be jumping to those conclusions.
So they're not going to be sitting there going I'm unlovable,
that's why I didn't get invited, or people dislike me,
or they're actively trying to reject me, or nobody cares
about me. Like, they're not jumping to those conclusions. So
when you think of like the let them theory and
the ability to just let people do what they're going
to do and not personalize it, that actually comes naturally

(37:06):
because with less core wounds, we are less likely to
personalize those things. That's almost like they're set point when
they're securely attached. Now there's a way to rewire our
core wounds so that we can also experience that. But
the second part of this is that in interdependent relationships,
it is we do the inner work and we do
the work in the relationship themselves. If we are like

(37:27):
two one sided just all let them theory type of behaviors,
then we're never advocating for the growth of a relationship.
We're always just like, Okay, let people do whatever they're
going to do. See who shows up, who cares? But
a lot of times and you know, you probably will
relate to this personally, because this was something for me,
like when I was fearful, avoidant, I never would ask

(37:48):
for help from people. I was like, oh, I'll do
things for other people and then I'll earn it back
and they'll want to show up for me. And one
of the biggest pivotal healing moments for me, like eight
years ago or so, was I learned, Okay, I have
to start telling people when I need something from them.
I have to be vulnerable enough to say, hey, I'm
going through this and I need your support. And this
is what that looks like to me. And since doing that,

(38:11):
since learning that, sure, if somebody couldn't show up and
they were consistently never showing up and I was showing
up for them, I might reassess the quality of that
relationship and take a step back. But one of the
best and most powerful learning experiences I had on my
own journey was like, oh, once I started having these
conversations with people, people actually see if I need them

(38:34):
to show up for me, and they do. And it
was the first time that I was like, Wow, people
are so capable and actually want to pour into the
relationship as much as I pour into people, and I would.
I finally found a reciprocity. And so what that is
is that called interdependence. It's it's this mix of being
able to take care of yourself, show up for yourself
and do that inner work, but not be afraid to
advocate for your needs in relationships with other people. And

(38:56):
it's really a hybrid approach there. And that's actually something
securely attached individuals do really well that allow them to
feel more deeply connected with people in their lives.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
So if we figure out which attachments how we are
and then we're like, okay, now this is me, but
I want to move towards secure where.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
Do we start? So this is like the body of
work that I've studied more than anything else. It's how
do we actually replicate secure attachment. There's five pillars. One
is we rewire wore wounds. We're not born with these wounds,
like I'll be alone, I'll be unloved, I'll be betrayed,
I'll be abandoned. We're not born with these wounds. They
get wired into us for painful experiences. So, for example,
how a poor wounds forms, it's let's say that you

(39:45):
know one day somebody, you know, they have parents, and
they're going off to kindergarten and they come home and
maybe they had show and tell, for example, and at
show and tell, they had somebody make fun of them
because they forgot what they were going to say, and
they came home and their parents also made them feel
not good enough, and who criticized them? Or if people
just had critical parents over and over again, growing up

(40:07):
like a child repeatedly will often go okay, well, it
must not be good enough. That's why I'm constantly criticized.
So we give meaning to our painful experiences, and that's
how core wounds form. But we can rewire those things.
It's the science of neuroscience. It's through repetition and emotion.
We can rewire o core wounds, and there's some easy
tools for how to do that. It's not even hard.

(40:27):
It just not talked about nearly enough. So Number one,
we rewire those core wounds so that we're not constantly
feeling triggered about abandonment or betrayal or being trapped, Like
we don't constantly have these things lagging our lives, so
that's number one. Number two, we learn what our needs
are in a relationship. One of the biggest ways we
actually self suit. So if somebody feels panicked in a

(40:49):
relationship and they're scared that somebody is pulling away and
they feel their whole body go into this panic if
they're not hearing from somebody, you know, so much of
that is that you usually don't know how to meet
your own needs and other people to meet our needs,
and if it seems like that's being threatened and they're
pulling away, then all of a sudden, we're like, oh
my gosh, I'm not going to get my needs met
at all, and we panic. It's almost like going into

(41:09):
a gas station with your gas tank fully empty, like
of course you're gonna panic if the gas station's closed
because you have no gas in the tank. So, you know,
if we don't know how to meet our own needs,
we won't be able to self soothe, and then that
will cause us to have these really just regulating experiences.
So pillar number two is we actually learn what our
needs are and how to meet them on a daily basis.
Pillar three we learn to regulate our nervous system. And

(41:32):
what that actually means is we have to make sure
we are in a position where we are practicing things
like meditation or mindfulness on a daily basis because we're
teaching our body. Hey, it is safe to actually just be.
You don't always have to be in this doing mode,
this constant state of coping. It's safe to just be sometimes,
and it's only through when we're actually able to properly

(41:52):
relax and teach our body. It's safe to relax through
things like meditation, mindfulness, body scans, deep breathing practices, yoga
like things that are connecting us to our body and
helping us be more present. It's only through that that
we also learn to downregulate. We aren't so quick to
jump to conclusions and go into this triggered space. So
that's our third major pillar, and then that's the inner work.

(42:15):
Rewire your core wounds, meet your own needs, regulate your
nervous system. That helps us become secure within ourselves, and
then the external work becomes learn to communicate your needs
to other people and learn to have healthy boundaries in
your life with others. And if you can do those
things through practice, that's going to be how this comes
full circle and then somebody becomes securely attached.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
So how long does it take to typically go through
the five pillars.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
In ninety days?

Speaker 2 (42:43):
Oh? Lot?

Speaker 1 (42:44):
Here? And why? Two really big rules? Okay, Rule number one,
your conscious mind can't outweill your subconscious mind and your
conscious mind. Rule number two is responsible for three to
five percent of everything, your thoughts, your beliefs, your patterns,
your habits. Sub conscious mind is responsible for ninety five
to ninety seven percent of everything. So all of those

(43:05):
times we tell ourselves we're going to do something like, oh,
I'm not going to text them again, they're not good
for me, and then we text them anyways, or I'm
not going to push somebody away and shut down. I
don't I want to be more vulnerable, But then we
shut down anyways. That because your conscious mind intends, but
your conscious mind can't outwill your patterns. I have a
background originally in hypnotherapy, so it's all about how to
rewire our pattern so we actually focus on the subconscious

(43:28):
mind and neuroplasticity so that we can attack these patterns
that we have and specifically at that level of mind,
and that's how you move the needle. And so I
focus on doing ninety deboot camps for people to become
securely attached, to reprogram your core wones, meet your needs.
And it's a lot of leveraging repetition and emotion on
a daily basis because that's what fires and wires neural pathways.

(43:49):
And when we start doing that, we actually build this
relationship to ourselves over time as well.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
So I started the work probably about three years ago
there first started to learn about codevendency and attachment styles
and really realizing like, oh, and some of that was
because of my marriage and then also my adopted son,
just some things that you know, basic stuff from the
first few months of his life where his needs weren't

(44:15):
met and as he was approaching adolescence it started to
come out and so our brains really know.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
How to hold on to a lot of these patterns.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
And so through that work with him and on my
marriage and myself, and here I am three years later,
but I think there was a lot happening at once.
So I've dipped my toe in and I've definitely seen progress,
and I am proud of myself, but I do think.

Speaker 3 (44:41):
I don't know boot camp could serve me well.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
To your point, this is something that's often not talked
about nearly enough. The first three years of a child's
life have some of the biggest impacts with our programming,
and so, as you mentioned, was adopted and so within
those first few months there was chaos or trauma or
a lot of difficulty that actually can invent the subconscious
mind and re deep way and so a lot of
these patterns, you know, how we have to really leverage

(45:06):
reconditioning these wounds, these fears, these triggers, our relationship to
our needs and boundaries. Is we have to target the
subconscious using repetition in emotion, and there's lots of different
tools for how to do that, and they're not very difficult.
But if we can have all the awareness, but unless
we're actually going into daily habits and patterns for reconditioning
across at least a twenty one day segment, we can

(45:27):
find that sometimes the journey to try to become secure
is more like a push pull, like, oh, you see
some progress for a little bit, and then it kind
of goes bad, and then you see some progress and then
I look back and it's usually just because we're not
targeting the subconscious mind wide enough.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
One hundred percent, like you're saying that that resonates so much,
and I get frustrated because I think, why do I
keep doing this? But also there are certain behaviors and
patterns that are just very comfortable, and I'm gonna naturally,
at least this is how it's explained to me. You
can share your thoughts, but I naturally default to the
most comfortable, even though it's far more painful for me.

(46:01):
It's just what I'm used to, So I go back
to that, even though I have put in work. And
another thing that was explained to me recently, and I'm
curious your thoughts are was you know? And I'm sitting
at my kitchen table right now. So there's just a
picture like a round table right now. I've got six
chairs around me, and let's say there's six versions of
me at the table, and this is my current me.

(46:25):
I've lived a lot of life, have different seasons. Baby
me is over in the other chair, you know, infant,
teenage me. We're all at the table. They are all
parts of me, and in some relationships, I realized that
not all parts of me felt safe showing up, and
I was having to not invite certain parts of me

(46:45):
to the table, and it was causing such angst in me.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
And it couldn't pin it.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
I didn't know why, but it was because all of
me wasn't welcome. And visualizing it that way when my
therapist gave me that picture, it was so helpful because.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
I could actually see it.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
I'm like, oh, I am behaving this way because I'm
not allowing little me to show up here. And I
want little me to be able to show up and
feel safe, and so I need to get to a
place in my relationships where all parts of me can
show up and feel okay. I didn't know how to
listen to my body, and I would try to fix

(47:25):
it and do all kinds of things, and really I
could just set a boundary of like, i want all
parts of me to be welcome and safe, so I'm
not going to put myself in this situation.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
I'm not so beautiful, And you said something like really,
really powerful which is you know, when there's these parts
of you that don't feel safe, it's because we have
a core wound around them. So it's because maybe when
you were five years old, maybe if you were too emotional,
you got shamed and criticize, so you learned something like, Okay,
my emotions are unworthy of love. And so now that
emotional part of you is not able to sit at

(47:55):
the table because you built this belief system that's like, oh,
this part of me isn't worthy of love or acceptance.
And so then we repress aspects of ourselves. But what's
really beautiful is as you actually learn to rewire core wounds,
you'll see that I don't have the sphere of if
I set a boundary, I'll be abandoned, or I'll be
a burden, or I'll be too much if I express
my emotions. It's all because of these belief systems we

(48:17):
have about these parts of ourselves. First, it cause us
to try to lock those parts down. But as we
rewire those core wounds, it's not so much as conscious profits.
It's like we naturally show up in our truer selves
because we don't have these beliefs that these parts of
ourselves are unworthy of love to begin with.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
Yeah, And it's interesting when you start to really look
at it, how different people may have different versions of
you at the table. And you can start to see
what chairs are pulling up and backing away, and what
chairs are pulling up and backing away. And the goal
would be to, you know, in most every relationship, to
have every chair at the table securely. It doesn't mean

(48:54):
that five year old me starts acting out, but she's welcome.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
Yes, exactly. And those fears that may be there you
can express to your partner in a loving way and
receive support for them, and those concerns you have that
you're worried about the future with something you feel safe
to actually talk about those things. It's really allowing all
of those parts of you to be expressed in healthy
ways and integrated into the whole of who you are.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
How might one of the attachments does show up in
an unhealthy way at work?

Speaker 3 (49:20):
And then how would you make it secure?

Speaker 1 (49:22):
So one of the first things you will absolutely see
is that in a workplace you'll see those same patterns
and themes. So a dismissive avoidant, because they're so hyper independent,
they often won't really spend a lot of time prioritizing
workplace relationships, which you could make an argument like, oh,
it's work, so you don't need to, but you could
also make an argument that part of getting ahead and
work is also networking and building relationships and working with

(49:44):
teams and knowing how to communicate. So you'll see those
being some detrimental sides, but also dismissible winds won't often
ask for help because they don't want to seem weak
for asking for help or things of that nature, so
you'll see those patterns arise. Then on the flip side,
you will see that with a fearful avoidant attachment style,
a lot of fearful avoidant attachment styles in the workplace,

(50:05):
they feel a lot for everybody, and they take everything
on for everybody all the time, and they sometimes struggle
to trust that other people will do the job as
well as they can, because they will just push themselves
to the end to degree at things, and they'll try
so hard and they'll never give up. But you know,
a lot of that often comes from if you were
a fearful avoidant in childhood, you usually had to grow
up really fast, and you got comfortable operating outside of

(50:27):
your comfort zone, and so you learn to just figure
things out on the fly, and that can be a superpower,
but it can also be something that again stops you
from really receiving support from other people enough, because you're
always the one to kind of do it yourself and
do it for others. So you'll see a trajectory towards
burnout sometimes as a result, and then anxious attachment styles.
They usually in the workplace will people please their way

(50:49):
into oblivion, and so you may see them constantly just
doing for others. I had a client once when I
was running my practice back in the day, and she
said she would just watch everybody run or get promoted,
and it just so happened to be all these people
who she would do their work for them, and she
would constantly be there for them and do their work,
and then they would get promoted, and she would get
behind on her work and wouldn't be able to follow

(51:09):
through with her staff. And so you'll see those kinds
of dynamics where the relationships are prioritized over the relationship
to self, and so there's that self abandonment that can
exist a lot of that time as well. So those
would be some core themes and patterns, and you'll see
like there's strengths for each attachment style. You know, we
can have the dismissive winds be really logical and rational

(51:29):
and grounded. We can have the fearful wines be really
great at persevering, very entrepreneurial because they're used to being
outside of their comfort zone and the anxious attachment styles.
They're great with people and relationships, but there's also those
downsides that we mentioned as well. So the secure people
show up at work help the great question. They often

(51:50):
show up at work very consistently. They're the masters of
taking themselves into consideration while taking other people into considerations,
never one or the other. And so they're really good
and having that healthy balance and being able to say,
you know, I'm looking out for myself. I can be
there for other people, but I'm not going to like
sacrifice my own deadlines or projects just to be there
for someone else. So there's that balance of I can

(52:13):
consider myself and people alongside of me in a healthy way.
And they'll also communicate their needs. They'll let somebody know
if they have a boundary. They're not afraid to do that,
and they're less quick to personalize things at work, which
actually means they're less likely to be triggered in the
workplace as well.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
I'm curious to your thoughts on crying at work because
I've definitely done that. But is that maybe too far?
Or is it okay to show up in that way?

Speaker 1 (52:36):
You know, I wouldn't say that that's like that or wrong.
The only thing that we could, like you could look
at and take into consideration would be did I cry
and then a either shame myself after at the time,
because that would be something to be mindfulop or did
I cry and then feel after like I violated my
own boundaries by sharing too much? And was it like

(52:58):
a personal boundary violation? Because sometimes, you know, a lot
of people can violate our boundaries, but sometimes we can
also violate our own boundaries, and so those are just
be the checkpoints of consideration. If anything, I don't don't
know if the crying itself is really like super negative.
It could be really beautiful or maybe it was cathartic
for you, but it's more about like what was your
relationship to it at the time than mas Well.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
We'll kind of wrap with a question to put a
bow on it all. If people are listening right now
and they're feeling a little bit overwhelmed by the idea
of working on or shifting their attachment style, what words
of encouragement or advice would you have for anybody.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
I would absolutely say that the first thing is to
be patient with yourself and give yourself grace, just like
you talked about earlier, because sometimes we see our attachment
style and we're like, well, these things are wrong with me,
when really it's just a subconscious set of rules that
you've learned about how to date and do relationships. But
the second major piece is absolutely that if we're going
to do the work. I really am such a believer

(53:55):
in targeting the subconscious mind. I think it's one of
the places that's so much of the tools, so many
of the tools we have that our mainstream kind of
fall short because if we're just gaining the awareness, one
of the downsides to learning about attachment styles is that
you can easily start to identify with this label too
much and be like, oh, I just am anxiously attached,
So I'm just always going to feel this way in
relationships and these are just going to be my behaviors.

(54:16):
But The biggest gift you can give to yourself is
if those behaviors are hurting you, if you're sick of
feeling triggered or wounded or afraid, or if you never
feel like you can relax in a relationship and let
your guard down and truly connect, then it's time to
be able to do that work at the subconscious level
so that you can actually become securely attached. So have
that grace for yourself. But it's not your fault that

(54:39):
you ended up that way, but it is your responsibility
to change it if you see those patterns, and only
you can really do that by showing up consistently and
repeatedly for yourself.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
And I'm just having a vision of just everyone feeling
so much lighter once they start to do the work,
because that's been my experience, and I'm eager to see
how much lighter I get as I continue to do
the work, because it is mental gymnastics at times, and
you feel so tired you don't realize how hard your
brain is working trying to just figure everything out.

Speaker 3 (55:10):
At least that's what it was for me.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
Of course, you could also avoid things, but then that's
not fun either. I feel like there's so many parts
you're missing out on in life and to have true
meaningful relationship in romance, in friendship, and even in your work.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
One hundred person and to your point, one of the
most beautiful things that happen is the relationship to yourself changes. First,
so like you get triggered less, your needs feel a
lot more, and then eventually because of that, you also
have more room for connection. Because sometimes when we're in
our attachment style space you said, mental gymnastics, sometimes it's
like these core wounds they can drive it a little crazy,

(55:47):
Like we're worrying about betrayal, we're worrying about being abandoned,
We're worried about making the wrong decision. Like a lot
of that is just taxing over time, and people will
find as they do that work their mind becomes so
much more still and more calm.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
Yeah, I feel like so forth for me, as I
started to do the work, really started to finally get
an alignment knowing that I was worthy of certain things,
and how empowering that was. Beautifully said, This has been
a great conversation if listeners want to dive deeper into
attachment theory and learn more from you, where can they

(56:19):
find all the things?

Speaker 1 (56:21):
Yeah, so I'm at Personal Developmentschool dot com and there's
actually a free attachments eloquence people can take there and
you'll get a full report on your poor wounds and
your needs and it will really help you dig into
just understanding some of these deeper aspects of self. And
then we also have those nine new day boot camps
for how to rewire your attachment style there and then
I put daily content out on YouTube, which is that

(56:41):
Personal Development School dash Tiny skips in awesome.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
All right, well that is it for today's episode. Thank
you so much. I mean, if you found this conversation helpful,
which I know you did, let us know. We think
if somebody else needs the episode, share it with them.
If you think that someone could benefit, and I'd love
to know your thoughts. You can hit me up four
things with Amy Brown at gmail dot.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
Com and you can follow light.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Subscribe, labor, re view all the things. So grateful for
you all, Bite

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Amy Brown

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Why You Act The Way You Do In Relationships: Attachment Styles 101