EMILY WEISBAND: Getting Real about Losing Pregnancies, Love That’s Not a Fairytale & How Writing Songs has Been Her Saving Grace

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
At carl Lone. She's a queen and talking song.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
She's getting not afraid to fas so, so just let
it flow. No one can do it quiet car Lone,
it sound like carolud.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
I am so excited to be here with you, Emily
Wise Van, thank you. I was amazing, Like there are
so many incredible songwriters in this town, but your songs
hit in such a way that the way you write,
it's just you're it's like such a I'm in the

(00:51):
moment with you. You're not writing like a concept like
you are writing about concepts, but like then it's like
very specific feelings in moments and it puts you in
it absolute a mindset and a mental place that every
song you write, it takes me to this world and
I just get lost in Like you are so gifted.

Speaker 4 (01:11):
You you are so gifted. I have no idea what
I'm doing, but I really appreciate you.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
Really don't know what you're doing, No, not really.

Speaker 4 (01:18):
I just know that it's funny you say that, because,
to be honest, that's first verses to me are very
important because to me, it's like the invitation into the song,
like I'm that's how I see it, Like I see
the beginning of a song as me inviting someone into it.
So if I don't get that feeling from the top

(01:38):
of a song that like someone's being invited into what
I'm about to do in the next three minutes, like
that's that's what I'm looking for. So actually, thank you
for saying that, because I am like pretty intentional about
that part. But beyond that, no, I don't know what
I do. I'm just showing up and trying to make

(01:59):
something I'm proud of.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
You got a lot going on in your mind, don't you. Yeah,
you got it, because like all your songs, you're not
like going on. You're not writing about like tailgays and
getting drunk and let's like have the summer of our lives.
I know you're writing about like the Okay, So the
recent song that hit me the most, which like I
feel like, made a big splash with champagne and sushi.
Oh oh man. So I've had five miscarriages and you've

(02:21):
had three. Yeah, And it is a shitty, shitty club
to be in.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
It's awful.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
It's awful. It's a big club, giant.

Speaker 4 (02:29):
Club, which that was probably the thing I was the
most surprised about when I entered it was there was
it's actually rare now that I meet someone who hasn't
had one.

Speaker 3 (02:40):
I know.

Speaker 4 (02:40):
It's like every woman I talked to they're like, oh, yeah,
I've had Even Like I called my doctor a couple
of months ago to like cry about something.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
Doctor, I will talk to you while you cry.

Speaker 4 (02:53):
Yeah, he's pretty nice. But I called because I was
asking the nurse like some questions, and even the nurse
on the phone, she's like, baby, i've lost four. She
was like, You're gonna be fine. And I was like,
you have She was like yeah, I said, you have kids.
Now She's like, I have three.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
So she kept going. So that's the thing to get
over it because I had two before I had Sonny,
and the two before, the two before were probably all
of them have felt different, like I've had a different
experience with each mistcarriage. I don't know if you felt
different with each one, Like each one has made me
have a different feeling. The two before were the most

(03:32):
gut wrenching to me because I was so scared I
would never have a kid. Yeah, I was scared it
was never gonna happen. And I don't know if you
feel that way because I know you haven't had a
kid yet, and like, I was so afraid it's not
gonna happen for me because I'm just gonna constantly have miscarriages.
And then I had a child, and so I was like,
oh my god, this is and the mother I became
because of the miscarriages, a totally different mom than I
probably would have been if I hadn't had just so grateful,

(03:55):
so realizing what a gift it is, what a blessing is.
And then I had three after her, and they were devastating,
but like it didn't hit as hard because I had
I mean not that it didn't hit as hard. It
hit different because I had her, you know, But it's
like it's still like each one is like this feeling
what have you felt with them? And honestly, I did
not know you wrote thy Will with Hillary Scott, Oh yeah,

(04:18):
which is also about Hillary's miscarriages. Yeah. When I had
my last two, all I did was listen to thy Will.
I just blasted it and bawled my eyes out, and
I was so thankful that someone wrote a song about
miscarriage because I felt so alone. And then you come
out with Champagne at sushi, and I was like, oh
my god, you've done it.

Speaker 4 (04:37):
You've done it again.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
You're making us feel like we're not alone.

Speaker 4 (04:41):
Thank you for saying that. It's so funny. We have
a lot of time back with what you just said. Yeah,
it's so funny because I had a very full circle
moment after my first miscarriage because thy Will happened and
I was like twenty two.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
So you didn't even really have a thought about this.

Speaker 4 (05:00):
I was hungover from the night before. I was when
we wrote that song, Like I I really phoned that
in and I've I've been very open about that. I
was raised a Christian and so I knew like how
to talk like a Christian. Well, I don't know that.
I was like necessarily, you know, the most stable human
and that song was happening, which is probably the perfect

(05:23):
time for me to be a part of writing it,
because yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:25):
Well it's just what I needed because that song's a
magnificent thank you.

Speaker 4 (05:30):
But you know, Hillary was so open about her experience
with miscarriage and and he just.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
Got from yes, she did her own little side project,
and I Will was just man.

Speaker 4 (05:41):
Yeah, but I just you know, I was there with her.
Threw it she was grieving at I mean, we wrote
the song like not long after it had happened for her,
And but I couldn't really feel what she's going through
because I've wasn't even in.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
Like the same strata square with those thoughts.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
Yeah, I was in a completely different place of life.
I wasn't even in like I want to be a
wife mode. I was twenty two, trying to make my
way through Nashville. So the only thing I really could
connect with her on that day is just you know,
not being in control, yeah, and having a release that

(06:26):
to God. But the miscarriage part didn't really hit home
with me because I couldn't You can't possibly know what
it feels like till you've been through it. Nothing prepares
you for it.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
It is so true because like I remember nothing people
used to tell me talk about miscarriage before I had
had one, before I wanted to be a mom, and
I kind of didn't really feel much about it, Like
even like though I am a woman, I didn't know
how to feel those feelings. You don't know that feeling
at all and how deep it is.

Speaker 4 (06:51):
I feel like pregnancy in general, like you can imagine
what marriage is like because you date and sometimes you
live with people.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
I want to talk about Broken Boy, because that's about
your marriage song and what you thought marriage is going
to be and what it is like. That's not your songs.
You just write the truth about life and then they
come out in these songs. Okay, so it's your life,
which I love. You can dissect your life.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Well.

Speaker 4 (07:13):
I say all this to say, like, you know, I've
got marriages. Yeah, you can imagine what marriage is, but
you can't. Nothing can prepare you for what it's like
to be pregnant, yeah, and then nothing can prepare you
for what it's like to lose someone you don't even
know and feel like guttural grief over that. Like I

(07:36):
my soul felt the loss in a way my brain
couldn't even register because I didn't even know who I
was grieving, but I felt it so gutturally, like it's
almost like my spirit felt it more than my consciousness did.
And so it's a really mind e fing loss. And

(08:00):
it was really interesting. After I said all that stuff
about that, I will to say that you know, I
spent probably seven years after that song playing it at rounds,
at shows, and just probably hundreds maybe thousands of women
over the last seven years sending me messages, emails coming

(08:21):
up to me after those shows, like telling me about
their miscarriages and their losses and thanking me for the song.
And I just was always like, oh, I'm so sorry,
like you're welcome. And I was on a trip with
my husband. We got home. This was after my first
first miscarriage. We got locked out of the house and.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
Got locked out the house anyway.

Speaker 4 (08:45):
Yeah, we just like gave someone our key to check
on our dogs or something and forgot to get it back.
And we got home to our house and like neither
of us had our house keys, and so we had
to call like a locksmith to come let us in
the house. And I was like, what are we gonna do?
For two hours? It was like a two hour wait,
and my husband grabbed the ladder and put it up
against her house and we climbed onto the roof of
our house and just like sat up there. Well that's cute,

(09:06):
and yeah it was cute, Like it made a bad
situation cute. But I feel like I had taken a
weed gummy or something because I was like, whatever, strap
in and I wasn't pregnant anymore so that Yeah, that's
another silver lining. Just kidding, But anyway, I was up
there and I'm a little high, and I just had

(09:27):
this like moment of like feeling like it was such
a gift. It was probably my first moment of feeling
like the miscarriage was a gift.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
Tell me why you feel like it was a gift.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
Because I thought about all those women who've come up
to me in the last seven years, and I thanking
me for that song, and I couldn't relate relate. And
now any woman who messages me about that song or
comes up to me about that song, I can genuinely
really relate to them like I could. They can share

(09:58):
their story with me, and I could annuinely look them
in the eye and connect with them on that. And yeah,
it was just very full circle. It's interesting that God
knew I would go through that same thing almost a
decade later, when you know, I didn't know that in
the moment. So yeah, full circle with that song for sure.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
And then Champagne and Sushi though, that's the best song
I've ever heard in my life. Thank you because you're
like what you kind of speak the chorus about it,
and you even said, like you were bold enough to
buy a box of baby clothes and like, yeah, can
you kind of tell us the lyrics? Is that weird
for you? Design?

Speaker 4 (10:33):
Not all it says, damn, it's been a hard week,
doctor Cidy can find a heartbeat. My whole world just
crashed in on me. And only had to say is
I'm sorry. They say that God's got timing, But right
now those words do nothing to me because right now
my only silver linings are champagne and sushi. It's sad.

(10:57):
I wrote that one after my second get miscarriage.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
Did that just flow out of you?

Speaker 4 (11:02):
It was like three days after my miscarriage and my
husband had gone to work and I was and.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
You just grieve alone. There's so much just grieving alone
when you have misscarried.

Speaker 4 (11:12):
It is like even I have a very supportive partner,
I mean he's every the way, but he'll just never.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
Just never understand.

Speaker 4 (11:21):
It's you never understand. I mean, yeah, it's it's something
happening internally. It's like we find out we're pregnant and
he's like, yeah, you're pregnant, and then he goes about
his life, exactly goes to work. The thing does whatever
you know and from that moment that you see those
two pink lines, every thought is about what's happening in san.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
You have to change your whole life because you can.

Speaker 4 (11:43):
You can't have champagne everything.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
Everything you're thinking about, everything you.

Speaker 4 (11:47):
Put in your body, You're thinking about everything you're doing
with your body. You're thinking about every police you're going.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
Everything you do now is centered on this baby.

Speaker 4 (11:56):
Every day and not to mention like all the chemicals
happening in there, like oh yeah, and it's just like
every to your point earlier, you talked about you had
a different experience with everyone, and my experience has been
every pregnancy is different.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
So what have you felt throughout the different Well, what
have been some of the differences you felt?

Speaker 4 (12:18):
So my first pregnancy, I took a test as a
joke honestly, Like was like, I bet I knocked you
up this month. And I was like, no chance because
we weren't trying it. It's like no chance like your
pull out king. You did not walk him up, and
he was like, you got your pregnant, I think or
two times I was a little later or something that

(12:41):
we just weren't like trying it, and so he said
just take a test, and I'm like no, no, no,
and he's like, just take one. I'm like, okay, but
it's gonna be a negative. And so I took the
test and it was not negative, and I went into
full body shock like it was middle September and my
teeth are chattering. I'm like, on the cot I was

(13:03):
not excited, okay, just because I think in my brain
I had a few more months, like we were gonna
start trying.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
But it's a big transition to all of a sudden
be a mom. Like once you're a mom, you're never
not a mom again.

Speaker 4 (13:15):
And like you said, like even with my writing, like
I leave no stone unturned, And so I was telling
a friend the other day, even nothing's ever fully sweet
for me. I have a hard time letting something just
be fully sweet, Like every time I eat a meal
with my dad, like I wish that could just be

(13:39):
fully sweet. But there's this thought in the very back
of my brain that I won't always be able to
eat meals with my dad.

Speaker 3 (13:44):
You have four on the enneagroom.

Speaker 4 (13:45):
No, I'm seven, You're seven.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
You're supposed to be lighthearted and fun, have all these
big feelings. I know it.

Speaker 4 (13:53):
I'm really just avoid it. Yeah, we're gonna need a yeah,
a kidding dishes.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
Yeah, sevens are supposed to be the ones that are like,
I know, not out.

Speaker 4 (14:05):
I know it's so crazy.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
Yeah, but underneath the seven's lightheartedness there is the depth.

Speaker 4 (14:10):
Well we're lighthearted because I think avoiding what's going on
in there.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
But you're not. You're not You're aware.

Speaker 4 (14:18):
I mean the writing room is one of the only
places I do that.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
Okay, well, you really do it hard in the writing.
You hard, you go hard, and that you save it
all because you go hard in the writing, really hard.

Speaker 4 (14:29):
And then my husband always says, this is you're really
hard to pet, like I'm hard to get to know
kind of you are? Yeah, like I I definitely.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
Am tell me why.

Speaker 4 (14:40):
My theory is I just have theories because I don't
really know, Like, but my theory is I do go
so hard in the writing room where I that when
I'm I have a hard time small talking, Like I
have a hard time really letting people get to know
me because I'm vulnerable with everybody. So I'm like, how

(15:02):
do you really know me? If I'm vulnerable with everybody
and usually being vulnerables, Like what you do with people
who really know you. So I feel like really knowing
me is more about like experiencing life with me. It's
kind of more involve just like spending time time with
me and coexisting with me.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
And you're not gonna be a quick friend.

Speaker 4 (15:23):
Yeah, if you're not a quick friend. And I wish
I was, like, I'm not like proud to say that necessarily.

Speaker 3 (15:29):
Like what is it a quick friend anyway?

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Though?

Speaker 4 (15:31):
You know? Yeah, I mean it's in the older I
get the harder it is too, because I'm just like,
I also have a lot of sisters.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
Anna, she like runs music Row.

Speaker 4 (15:40):
Yeah, she's the mayor.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
I feel like she's the She's like, you're like the music.
She's like the business or something, because like, y'all we're
between the two of y'all, y'all have music Row covered.

Speaker 4 (15:48):
We're a well oiled machine for sure.

Speaker 3 (15:50):
Besties.

Speaker 4 (15:52):
Oh, she's my best friend in the whole world. And
then we have three other sisters, three others and a brother. Yeah,
Oh my gosh, are you they all live here too?
Why did your parents have so many kids? My mom
was raised Catholic, so no birth control. But I don't know.
I think my dad he like had a kind of

(16:13):
crazy story life. I think there was at one point
he was like, I don't know if I'm ever gonna
have a family. He has a daughter from when he
was a teenager, who's my older sister, and we're so close,
like she's my I remember she's my half sister. But
I remember finding out she was my half sister when
I was a kid and sobbing like noh, you're my
whole sister, Like I just couldn't like, so we're super

(16:38):
super tight. But I think, like, you know, as far
as having like the nuclear family of like dad, mom, kids,
I don't know that my dad ever thought that would
happen for him and why not?

Speaker 3 (16:50):
What's your dad?

Speaker 4 (16:51):
Like he was just crazy, Like my grandpa passed away
when he was eleven, in front of him and oh wow,
and in front of his sisters, and it was just yeah,
while he was driving and my dad was in the
passenger seat. So my dad was eleven and grabbed the wheel,
pulled over and flagged someone down. But yeah, he didn't

(17:12):
make it. And then years later we found out some
like really crazy stuff about him, like he was in
the KGB and it's his whole thing. Grandfather my grandfather. Yeah,
the Soviet Union, like spy, like KGB, he's a spy. Yeah,
turns out anyway, lots of been packing to do there. Okay,

(17:33):
But all that to say, my dad was my grandma, Like.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
I love the stage by someone trying to not to
be a conspiracy.

Speaker 4 (17:44):
I don't know. Yeah, we haven't gotten to like conspiracy
about it, Okay, Okay, we just know it was like
very traumatic, dramatic my dad and the siblings.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
And I'm not trying to be disrespectful about that.

Speaker 4 (17:55):
Oh, you're not being disrespected at all. Trust me. At home,
we're all having our conversation.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
Got it.

Speaker 4 (18:01):
But but that's.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
So traumatic at eleven.

Speaker 4 (18:04):
Yeah, my so he ended up like hitchhiking New York.
When he was like twelve, he joined the Cardinal rock
band like No, where's the mom. My grandma was just
like super alcoholic. God rest her soul. I love her
she's she was so feisty. Her name was Mabel from Tennessee.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
So on his own at twelve.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
I mean, for all intentional purpose, at twelve in New York. Well,
he was older when he joined the like in his
later jeans, but he just was just a he was
a wild man is the point. Yeah, and like soul
very much just ag yeah, and then.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
Navigating on his own without really any parental guidance.

Speaker 4 (18:45):
Yeah. And he was agnostic too, like he but my
dad's very open about his story. He's like, I know
there's at least three abortions I paid for that I
know of. Like, he's very open about it. And he
he always says, like I squandered my body, I squandered
my money, and he just was like, very godless.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
I even learned he learned the hard way. Well, I
don't know if you learned that. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (19:06):
Well he he says he had a holy spirit moment
when he was like thirty one, okay, and it just
completely changed his life.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
What was the moment?

Speaker 4 (19:16):
He said the way he describes it, because I was
raised Christian. Sometimes I'm jealous of him, because when you're
raised Christian, you don't know what life without God's like,
and so you take it for granted sometimes.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
And maybe just kind of know your real relationship.

Speaker 4 (19:31):
Yeah, exactly, you have this bullshit to sift through you're raised.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
And I love that you're a pew with Lily Rose.
Yeah about that kind of thing coming in like in
the last minute, maybe a little hungover pew, But here
you are with God. Now you're feeling guilty because you're
supposed to be a certain way, but yet you don't
necessarily want to be this way, but you feel fear totally.
Like the whole God pressure. When you grow up with
a strong religious background is a little confusing because you're

(19:55):
kind of handed down someone else's beliefs.

Speaker 4 (19:56):
Yeah, you are, and I think at some point when
you become an adult you have to figure out, like
what's my relationship with God? Do I have one?

Speaker 3 (20:04):
Like?

Speaker 4 (20:04):
Is it just via my parents? Like? Right? Do I
believe in Jesus? Like what is that? You know?

Speaker 3 (20:09):
That is an interesting perspective to kind of almost wish,
like to be jealous that, like maybe you weren't raised
with God so you could find God.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
Yeah, but your dad found he found it majorly the
hard way. But when he found God, he's never the
same and he's like, I know what life without God's like,
I know what life with God's like. I choose life
with God. He's But I love my dad because he's

(20:40):
still a wild man. Like he's wild for sure, and
you have that in you though, you have that wild
free spirit. I do. I'm very very similar to my
dad were do.

Speaker 3 (20:51):
You have your imagination?

Speaker 4 (20:52):
Yeah, we're definitely kindred. Yeah, the reason I started writing songs.
I mean, he's we're very very kindred. But like he
was a rock memorabilia store and Marathon Music works. He
retired and said I'm going to open a rock memorabilly
store and he sells stuff. I call him the other day,
I'm like, what are you doing. He's like, I'm at
the factory of Franklin set up my I set up

(21:13):
my little vendor for this event. Like, yeah, he's like
in his sixties and just like joying what he enjoys. Yeah,
he's like writing screenplays. He has a couple of screenplays
he's working on.

Speaker 3 (21:22):
Just a creative, big brilliance.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
Yeah, and he like loves his whiskey and he loves
to get wild. But he loves Jesus so much. And
I think, like when I started exploring, like how I
really felt about my faith as an adult, Like I
ran into so many churchy people who like they became
Christians and then they lost their personality. Yes, because then

(21:44):
their whole personality now judgment that they was just like
church and you're in judgement. Yeah, and I watched. You know,
my mom even knew my dad ten years before he
became a Christian. Oh, so they've really gone the distance
they well, they weren't together for those ten years, but
between the time they met the time they actually ended
up together, it was like probably a decade. And my

(22:06):
mom says, a different human like the person I met
and the person I married, or two different people. And
but he's still he kept his personality, Like my dad
loves Jesus now, but he'll still get drunk with you.
But I feel like that says something crazy.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
Between a real relationship with God and trying to fit
a box relationship with Yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:26):
I was not raised religiously. I will say that my
dad raised us very relationship. He always said, like church
didn't save me, like a holy spirit like Jesus relationship
saved me. And my dad was unchurched, so we weren't
like held to a bunch of religious like standard. I

(22:48):
think I held myself to some of that.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
Just feel like you feel pressure. You felt some pressure.

Speaker 4 (22:52):
Yeah, I think that's the oldest child in me, just
wanting to be like perfectionists, like being you know, all
your other siblings are watching you I have for younger sisters,
like three younger sisters and a younger brother who, like
we always say, I'm the family guinea pig. Even all
my sisters with this miscarriage stuff, they're like family guinea
pig strikes again.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
They're all like tried out cares.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
He just like, what you're doing to like fix this
mess so that we don't have to go through And
I'm like, no, seriously, like it injects a lot of
purpose into me. But you know, back to my dad,
I think we were talking on the phone a couple
of weeks ago and he was like, I was thirty
six and no prospects. He was like, I'd become a Christian.

(23:36):
I wanted a family so bad. I didn't even have
a girlfriend, Like, no prospects. And I was born when
he was thirty seven. He had married my mom five
kids in five years. And he told me he was
just like, you know, I we had you. And then
four months later after I was born, my mom got
pregnant with Anna.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
So y'all are like Irish twins.

Speaker 4 (23:57):
Yeah, we're thirteen months apart. I was born in June.
She was born ju Live the following year. Oh my
gosh crazy and so then my dad was like, he
was like at that point, I was like thirty nine,
So I was like, how many.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
Could we get before I turned forty?

Speaker 4 (24:10):
Then? Yeah, so five kids and five years to the day. Actually,
my brother, you're the youngest I know. We had twins
in there, so the twins we're a super one deal.
But yeah, everybody lives in Nashville. We're all like super tight.
And I think I brought that up because I don't
have this hole in me for like that's longing for friendship,

(24:32):
like to be really fully known by a friend.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
You're known.

Speaker 4 (24:35):
I feel it's so known by these people. But that
does not mean that I should not make more effort
to make friends. Because my husband is like mister friends.
He has so many friends, Like he could go a
month and not see his family, but he he loves
his friends. He loves his family too, very very much.
We probably would not get along if he did not.
But yeah, he's like a friend.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
Guy personality types too, because like, I'm very similar to you.
I used to be. When I first moved to town,
I was like this giant extrovert and I thought I
was this extrovert, But I'm actually like a total introvert,
and extroverting now exhaust me.

Speaker 4 (25:12):
It's so scary.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
It's so scary, and it takes so much energy. And
by the time I've done a social setting, my temples hurt,
my mouth hurts from like smiling and talking to people,
and like I just have to go recover for days. Yeah,
because it takes so much energy. And I used to
do that all the time, and I thought that was
my personality, but I was just like in this high
energy level of just doing it constantly because I feel

(25:34):
the same way, I'm not going to like have a
real relationship with someone if I'm gonna have to constantly
be like doing my song and dance, making sure testing
the temperature.

Speaker 4 (25:42):
Are you okay? Said that because Dylan and I have
gotten invites about that. He's like, you are really hard
to get to know because there have been, you know,
people in our life who are like, I want to
be better friends with Emily, and I'm like, why do
they want to be better friends with me? I'm not
even a good friend. Like We've gotten fight where you
like you are so closed off to everybody but your family,

(26:05):
and like, but maybe your cup is just totally full Yeah,
well I've explained that to him, and he, you know,
is about the full cup with like your sister.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
And I do have.

Speaker 4 (26:18):
The Other thing about my friends is they're very spread out.
Like one of my best friends lives in LA. One
of my best friends lives in Charlotte, North Carolina. I
also don't really have like a friend group, so like
Anna has a friend group, you know, so like when
Anna goes to dinner with her friends, the group goes
to dinner and they're all friends with each.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
Other, You're not in the friend group.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
No, Like I'm friends with some people in the friend group,
but I'm not Like Anna and I have always had
like we've always shared friends, and I think we've found
it to be healthy in our older years. We've lived together.
At one point, we worked together, we play together. It
was just all too much, like she needed her friends
and I needed my friends, and that crosses over sometimes. Yeah,

(27:05):
but yeah, I don't get too up in her friend girl.
I like all her friends, so I think they're awesome.
I would totally hang out with them.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
And also, you're you gotta think about this too, because
I feel this way with podcasting when I come and
like have a conversation with you or someone else. I'm
like literally dumping my guts and the person is dumping
their guts. Yeah, I don't want to, Like, so you
go dump your guts in the songwriting room though.

Speaker 4 (27:25):
Yeah, I don't want to do that off shore.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
Yeah, so it's like you don't have to you don't
have to like catch up with your girlfriends and like
spill all your beans, because like you've spilled your beans hard. Yeah,
You've written these songs that take probably all of your
emotional energy out of you, and whatever you're going through,
you've just poured it out.

Speaker 4 (27:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:42):
It's like a Catharsis experience for sure. And then you
have your family and your husband, so it's like you
really don't have much more energy.

Speaker 4 (27:48):
I know, there's only so much energy, and I do
long for community that's not my family, and you know,
Dylan and I have talked about that. But I also
explained to Dylan that because Dylan has so many give
me the other day, he has friends coming out of the
woodwork sometimes where he's he literally said to me, there
he goes, yeah, I'm going to golf with whoever. I'm like,
who's that? You have a new friend?

Speaker 3 (28:11):
No old friend different.

Speaker 4 (28:12):
It's like, oh, I've known him for I'm like, where
do all these friends come from? Like you have so
many friends? But and so you know, the thing I
love about marriage is that men and women are so different.
Like at least man woman marriages which I'm in, were
so different. A lot of marriage is just like we're
never gonna agree about a certain thing. But it's all

(28:36):
I can do is have a little more understanding from
his male perspective, because we just won't see some things
the same way ever, Right, So all he can do
is just understand my perspective a little more and honor that.
And all I can do is understand his little more
and honor that. So with the friend thing, we would
get into fights about it because I just wanted him
to understand where he's coming from. I was like, look,

(28:58):
you make a new guy friend, and you guys go golf,
you go fly fishing, you do whatever, and then you
go home and that man does not emotionally rely on
you or have any emotional expectations out of you. Literally
all you'll see them again next time you go you'll

(29:21):
do another or next time you fish, and you'll do
some activity. And sometimes you won't even talk about your
personal life. I will ask mine, and then you will
go home.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
I asked Michael all the time when he hangs out
of his friends, and like, I know some major dramas
going on in that friend's life. I'm well, did y'all
talk about this? He no, didn't even come up. I'm like,
that's all we would have talked about early.

Speaker 4 (29:39):
All we would have talked about.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
All we would have talked about is the major going
on in the female's life.

Speaker 4 (29:43):
Yes, And so I told Dylan, I was like girls
making friends and guys making friends of different So true
girls make friends and we're not just making a friend,
we're making a new life partner. We are making We
are I am now emotion emotionally responsible for this person.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yes, yes, unless I meet.

Speaker 4 (30:01):
Another girl who says detached as I am, which most
of my friends are, because you have to be. It's
like survival mode. It's like I don't I don't I
get I just get scared to make new friends sometimes,
like actually, because I'm like this person gonna like expect
me to come to all their parties and their wedding

(30:22):
and all this stuff, and not because I may or
may not and if I can't.

Speaker 3 (30:26):
Like Morgan's over here laughing, Morgan, are you so legit?
Like yeah, like you for you for everything you make
a new girlfriend, you can't go to her wedding.

Speaker 4 (30:38):
Yeah, I can't believe you didn't come to my wedding?
How dare you not come to my wedding? Like certainly
if one of Dylan's best man almost couldn't come to
our wedding because there was a freaking hurricane in his
hometown and literally when he went back to his home
from our wedding, he was going to see if his
house survived a hurricane. So he called Dylan, Who's like,
I might not be able to make your wedding. And

(30:59):
Dylan was like, man, I totally understand. This is really fine.
Whatever if my made of honor couldn't gone to my wedding.
If you're the maid of honor in a girl's wedding
and you can't go to her wedding, that's drama, guys.
I told Dylan, I was like, you are acting like
making girlfriends and making guy friends are the same thing.
You are so literally not the same. And I don't

(31:20):
appreciate you coming down on me or not well and.

Speaker 3 (31:24):
What you're trying to say is I am going to
be so emotionally invested, and the guys think they're emotionally invested.
There's literally not into God, they think that they are
emotionally supporting that friend. I know, all guys have to
do is just give them their physical presence and that's
their emotional support, and do an activity and do an activity.
But girls, oh no, no, oh no.

Speaker 4 (31:41):
No, we're now life partners or soulmates. Yes, it's just
a lot of pressure, and girls get really upset when
you you don't necessarily meet their expectations. I'm generalizing. I'm
not trying to generalize. I feel like secretly most girls
feel the same way we do.

Speaker 3 (31:58):
Yeah, but we're just But then you get into the
situation where the feelings are triggered and you have with
your girlfriend, and it is it's much more dramatic.

Speaker 4 (32:07):
Yeah, it's just a lot.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
It's a lot.

Speaker 4 (32:09):
It's a lot more and navigate.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
You're right, you don't.

Speaker 4 (32:12):
That's why most of my friends.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
So you're saying, you're a strong, committed friend and you
can't just be taken on these casual, quick friendships because
you're giving everything you have. I get deeply attached and
you're gonna you have to protect your energy because you're
giving so much. So if your husband wants you to
stay emotionally, stayble, you need less girlfriends.

Speaker 4 (32:30):
I feel you.

Speaker 3 (32:31):
I totally feel you.

Speaker 4 (32:32):
He's not at the point where you know he's like, Okay,
I you know we understand each other.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
You're not just trying to go pat your nails and
get drunk. You're like everything you have.

Speaker 4 (32:42):
Yes, Like I actually want to be able to show
up for friends, and I just know I'll let you down.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
Less is more. I get it. I don't think if.

Speaker 4 (32:52):
I take onto it and then it's drama. I don't know.
I get like a little gun shy about.

Speaker 3 (32:57):
I feel you, and also like there's more at stake
the older you get. I've realized that too. Like I've
had some friends now go through some major things, like
friends have miscarriages. I've had some friends go through divorce.
I've had all sorts of things happening with friends, and
I have not navigated that part very well because I
am such a deep friend. Also that I feel like
when you're my friend, I have to Like I've learned
that you don't just have to show up and tell

(33:18):
them what you think they need to do. Yeah, because
I thought, oh, if you're the friend, then you have
to come in and give like the good advice. Yeah,
but you also have to learn how to just be
a friend and let people do whatever they want to do. Like,
just being there for a friend without offering advice has
been very hard for I've had to like learn a
new way just to let my friends live their life,

(33:39):
even though I feel like, as a good friend, I'm
supposed to share with you how I think you need
to try it because that's what a good friend is.
But no, no, that's very real. I think that's very
very it's hard not to navigate it all. Okay, so
I kind of want to hot back though. So the
first miscarriage, you felt, oh, yeah, it's okay.

Speaker 4 (33:57):
I love the track I've got to come. Yeah, first one,
I felt so overwhelmed. I was just like letting that
part of me that was not a mom, like, was
never gonna not be a mom again. I thought that
first one.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
With the first miscarriage too, Actually, I was when I
first found out I was pregnant the first time. It
was not excitement, No, I wasn't ready yet.

Speaker 4 (34:17):
No, Yeah, I just was this scary, and.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
The miscarriage was the miscage is devastating because then you
finally get on board with it.

Speaker 4 (34:25):
It was the morning I felt excited enough to entertain
a conversation with Dylan about like, so, if we had
a boy, would you want to name it like it?
That was the day I lost. The pregnancy so devastating,
and I was shocked at I've said this before on
other I think I did like a podcast about miscarriage
one time where I said this, But I was shocked

(34:48):
at how devastated I was, for how anxious I was
when I found out I was pregnant, and that kind
of just made me go, Okay, I wanted to start trying,
like you're never gonna be ready. You're just as ready
as you're going to be before you just actually do it.
So I'm there. This was really freaking sad. Maybe we're
more ready for this than I thought. And you know,
I was very comforted. So many people told me, like

(35:11):
a lot of women have one and then they had
then you get pregnant right after, and then you have twins,
and so I was like, Okay, one is normal, one
is super normal. It was a chemical pregnancy too, Like
I never even made it to the doctor, so like
one chemical pregnancy for you baby.

Speaker 3 (35:29):
It was so normal, normal just getting the uterus ready.

Speaker 4 (35:32):
Yes, you're really fertile, like a few months after you
have one. So I was like definitely devastated. I took
two or three weeks and and God is really nice
to me. I've told the story before, but I just
feel like you need to say it again. This girl.
It was Drew Baldrid his wife.

Speaker 3 (35:47):
Actually can you Balder's by the way, what about an
independent artist?

Speaker 4 (35:50):
I know, I'm so excited for him and proud of.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
Him that could although he's very big.

Speaker 4 (35:56):
But yeah, he's a huge man. But I mean I
was so jupes for him.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
You've written with him a bunch.

Speaker 4 (36:02):
Right, Yeah, we were both signed to this music like
back in the we kind of signed. Yeah, a publishing company. Amazing,
so yeah we were we were publishing a fan for
a while. But I'm I'm so stoked for him. But anyway,
his wife, I hadn't doctor her in maybe like a year,
year and a half, maybe two years, And it was
the night after my miscarriage, my first miscarriage, and she
texted me girls, so random hope you're doing good. But

(36:25):
I had the most vivid dream last night that you
had a baby, and I was like, well, that's guysy
because I lost a baby last night. And she said,
this is just this has to be Jesus reassuring you.
She said, I saw it so clearly. You and Dylan
were in the hospital. You were looking down at a baby,
and you looked so in love. She was like, so
just take that as a promise that like that's what

(36:47):
I saw. And so I thought, wow, God, like thank
you for this gift, like this picture that you could
give me, Like I know what's going to happen. So
I feel like once I went through the two weeks
ish of like heavy grief after that first one, I
was excited and like hopeful to try again and this

(37:10):
time good. So my second one. And also no one
prepares you for, like the grief when you're trying and
you take a test and it's negative, that's like the worst,
like no one proves it. You spend your whole especially
as a Christian kid, you spend your whole life trying
to not get pregnant, and then like you start trying

(37:31):
to get pregnant and you're like, wait, what is this
mind every it's.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
Just like a whole there's a whole other one when
you get a positive one again though, because you can't
fully be happy.

Speaker 4 (37:40):
Yeah it was. I got my second positive and I
was like cautiously.

Speaker 3 (37:45):
You're always a cautious excitement.

Speaker 4 (37:47):
Yes, cautiously happy, And that one was kind of wild.
I had like a scare. They thought I was having
a molar pregnancy, which is basically like you're, instead of
a baby growing like your years, fills up with like
tumors and it's like they've bir thrown words like chemotherapy around.
It was awful, but it was a false alarm. I
was not having more or pregnancy. It was just way

(38:07):
earlier than they thought I was. So we ended up
I ended up making it to eight weeks with that one.
We saw the heart beat, so yeah, that was super
super exciting, and I remember like all my friends were like,
you need to get on progesterone. You need to get

(38:29):
on progesterone, which is like obviously the hormone that helps
pregnancy stick. And they were like, literally, by doctor, put
me on progesterone. That's what helped me keep the baby.
So everybody kids telling me that. So I asked my
doctor at like six weeks. I was like, we saw
the heart beat, and I was like, should I get
a progesterone just to make sure that you know it
helps develop? And he was like, I mean, if you

(38:50):
want it, i'll give it to you. But you have
a heartbeat without it, so like, and I just had
this thought where I was like, God, I trust you,
like you brought me this far with thought it I no, like,
we'll just I won't get on it, like we'll continue.
Two weeks later we go back and there's no more
heart beat. And then three days after that is when

(39:11):
I wrote Champion and Sushi and that one I felt pissed.
I was so mad, like I didn't feel sad, like
I was sad, but I was like, wildly angry. Who
are you mad at God? I was just like, you're
a dick. I told him in the.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
Song yeah about wait, how do you say that? You
say it so well?

Speaker 4 (39:32):
I said, it's the bridge, it's so good. Go it's
oh yeah, It's like comes out of the second chorus.
It's like, right now, my only silver lines are champagne
and sushi. Lighting up a joint, watching a movie uh,
asking God, what the fuck is he doing? Causing when
I pray, daring him to sue, we're telling him to

(39:54):
sue me and hearing him say let it all out,
You'll never lose me.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
Oh that's like if that's not like God in the
raw form, I'm like, thank you so much for like
not acting like we have to be perfect when we're
having the worst moment of our life that you can
like actually yell at God and tell God like, what
the actual hell? Like, I'm so fucking mad at you
right now? Why is this happening? Like that's a relationship
with God. Yeah, that's a real relationship with God.

Speaker 4 (40:20):
That's what I tell myself when I read to fuck you.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
But it's not. It's not like it's like you're just
it's like a parent when you're so mad at your parent,
but like you know, they still love you and they're
like looking out for you or whatever. But it's like God,
it's like, how can this happen? God? Like why am
I going through this?

Speaker 4 (40:37):
Well? You back when I had the molar pregnancy scare,
I was in the er. They were like I thought
I had cancer like all day, and so I was
in the er and I'm just like praying for a
miracle like God. And when the doctor came in later
that night and said, either my doctor said, he said,
either my machine's broken or God did a miracle, because

(41:00):
as your uters looks like this at one thirty pm
and at six thirty pm it looked like this, And
I can't do we can't do a DNC like I
don't you need to come back in three weeks. You
might just be earlier than we thought. And I left
the hospital that night thinking, oh my God, like this
is my redemption. God did a miracle, like it out

(41:20):
of my freakin Vanderbilt doctor's mouth, he said, God did
a miracle. And so two weeks later, when I go
back and there's no heartbeat, or four weeks later whenever
it was, it's like, what, like was I hearing you wrong?

(41:41):
Like was that not a miracle? It felt like God
Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead. And then a week
later you get hit by a car.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
He was still in there, like still doing like still alive,
like still the harvey was still happening like you thought.

Speaker 4 (41:54):
So basically I went in for my first ultra sound
because I was like three weeks later period. He said,
I think you're probably six seven weeks long coming this week.
I said, okay, so I go in. He says that
I'm like what I'm seeing, I'm just seeing like clumps
of tissue. I'm not seeing I want to see like
a yoke with something in it. And he said, I
think you're having a molar pregnancy. I'm gonna send you

(42:16):
the er for DNC, which is.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
Yeah, they like it's like it's like an abortion.

Speaker 4 (42:21):
Basically they stuck it out and yeah, they just clean
out your your womb. And he said, I'll do one
more ultrasound at the hospital and make sure. So he
does that and nothing there. No, it was like just
more formed, like he said I He told me, he
was like, I had to get four or five other
people in radiology to look at it to make sure

(42:42):
I wasn't a psychopath. He was like, it looked like
clumps of tissue this morning, and then something between the
time you left my office and got to the er
to get a different ultrasound, like it had settled into
just not clumps of tissue, like it's not a molar pregnancy.
He was like, best case scenario, you're way earlier than
we thought, and my body had just like glitched like

(43:03):
I'd ovulated. Later since I had had a miscarriage already,
my cycle was off. It's like, you come back in
a few weeks and we'll see heartbeat and the baby's
just too small to see right now. Worst case scenario,
you are seven weeks along and it just hasn't developed,
so only time will tell. Okay, so go home.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
You went home and you just kind of waited it out.

Speaker 4 (43:22):
Yeah, which is another thing about pregnancy is still waiting.

Speaker 3 (43:25):
Oh my god. Tom Petty said, all right, the waiting
is the hardest part, and.

Speaker 4 (43:28):
Just trying to function in the way you're thinking about
it's all you're thinking about it. You're I'm still eating
like I'm pregnant, but at this point I don't know
if right, you're developing, Like I don't know. It's just
such a crazy, freaking weird limbo. And so anyway, a
few weeks later, we go back to the hospital. I
get an ultrasound heartbeat. There was there was a heartbeat.

(43:50):
I was like, God literally did a miracle, Like that's
freaking crazy. We cried. We went to a celebration lunch.
After two weeks later, we go back and there's no
more heartbeat and that just sucked. I was so pissed.
I was like, God, you're a dick, I told him.
I was like, you're dickle. And I'm not mad at

(44:12):
you because they don't believe in you, or because I
don't trust you. I'm mad at you because I do
trust you, and I do believe in you, and I
think whatever's going on in there is literally none of
my fucking business, and you're in charge of that, and
you didn't do your freaking job, and what what are
you trying to teach me about miracles? That like, I

(44:33):
felt like a trick was played on me. It was
just like it literally felt. I just always think about
like Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead, and then like
he gets hit by a car a week later. It's like,
what was the point?

Speaker 3 (44:44):
Right? It's not funny at all, but ro it is
funny that, like, what else are you gonna do? You're grievy,
you laugh like you don't cry.

Speaker 4 (44:50):
The day I found out we couldn't see the heartbeat,
we went to a comedy show at the Rhyme in
that I couldn't had a dead baby in and we're
sitting there in a comedy show because my but it
was called a miss miscarriage because my body didn't realize
I had miscarried, so it was still carrying on like
it was pregnant. So they scheduled me a DNC for
a week later. And I have a dead baby in

(45:13):
me and what are you gonna do?

Speaker 3 (45:14):
Oh my god, sit at home walking around walking around
with that.

Speaker 4 (45:19):
It's like like that sounds really a brazen and harsh,
but that's literally what it is. And I'm not going
to like sugarcoat that to make people feel more comfy.
That's what it is.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
It is. I know, I know that feeling and when
you just like you just have to wait and it's
just you know it's dead, but it's in there, and
like it's like the most.

Speaker 4 (45:37):
It's crazy, like nobody can prepare you for that feeling.
And we went to a comedy show that night and
we're just laughing at the rhyme and me and my
husband and I'm just in the twilights.

Speaker 3 (45:51):
It's so weird.

Speaker 4 (45:52):
I know, we're just like I'm like, what is actually
happening going on? It was crazy. So any way, yeah,
I got really mad at God for that one. I
was like, you're an ass for that one.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
Dude, Well, he gave you a freaking gift with champagne
and sushi, because that is like one of the most
healing things I've ever heard. For and every woman, I mean,
I feel like you went kind of viral at least
with like women who have experiences like it was everybody
was yeah about this song.

Speaker 4 (46:18):
I mean, I don't even know. I've never looked at
this I don't know how much it's streamed, Like, I
don't know, I've never looked. I don't think it's millions
of people who've heard it. But but I will say
this song, Pa, Well, I was gonna say, I think
this song is the first song in my career career

(46:39):
where like the number, the streaming number is a number
of humans to me, because you know, people were being
if it's like forty thousand or something like Billie Eilish,
forty thousand is a horrific number or like you're a failure,
like we're dropping you. But for me, forty thousand, like

(47:00):
that used to be a horrific number for me too
when I was off an artist land, I was like
forty thousand, But for this song, forty thousand. To me
was oh, that's forty thousand women, Like, imagine a room
of forty thousand women who needed this song, who needed
that song? I needed this song, like I needed this song.
I was like, what do I listen to right now?

(47:20):
I've never seen nothing?

Speaker 3 (47:21):
I will is the only option, which is an amazing one,
but like this what it's not even.

Speaker 4 (47:25):
Like you wouldn't know what's it's about pregnancy unless she
told you, which she ended up telling people. But I
just I remember when that song came out, She's like, Yeah,
I'm not gonna tell my miscarriage story till probably a
month after it's out, because I want people to like
put their own story into the song before I share
my version of it. So like, I just hadn't heard
many songs talking about miscarriage explicitly. I'm sure they're out there,

(47:48):
but the world's not brimming with them. It's not like
a sexy thing to sing about. And I just I
didn't have a go to and so yeah, I woke
up one morning my husband had left the house, and
I just was I think I wrote it in like
fifteen minutes, like actually not joking. It's probably the fastest
song I've ever written.

Speaker 3 (48:22):
So you write though the way you write, and I
want to kind of like just fire off some of
these pools we've written songs for, because it's like a
long list and I'm not even gonna mention all of them,
like Chris Young, Cheryl Crow and Wilson, Jeremy Camp, Dasha,
Daniel Bradbury, Lily Rose, Gaby, Barrett Camillo, Caabella, Hillary Scott,
Noah Cyrus, Laura, Elena fgl Sam Hunt, Dan and Jay Old,
Dominion Key, the Urban, Darius Rucker. I mean that's not

(48:43):
even like all of them. You have had so many
people cut your songs like you are such a sought
after songwriter and you are such like your songs like
can hit all different types of people in demographics. But
like something about your songs though, is like this message
of true about your life is in all of them,
which I can now piece together, and like Daniel Bradbury

(49:05):
wedding or a funeral and broken Boy, like let's have
a moment with those, Okay, Like broken boy, that's about
your husband. Yeah, And I love this because like I
just love that you hit these topics and you're being
so real and wrong with them because like you talk
about how growing up you thought marriage was supposed to
be this moment where you meet this person and you

(49:27):
fall in love and everything's perfect and they see you
for exactly who you are and all flaws fall away
and it's like you right off into the sunset. Yeah,
and that's just not it. No, And you said you
would never have ended up with your husband if you
hadn't realized that he was broken and you were broken, right.

Speaker 4 (49:44):
Yeah. My husband, he's very open about this online, so
I will spill his tea. My husband got diagnosed with
something called ROCD. We found out the week we got

(50:05):
back together. We were friends for a long time, we
dated for four months. He like randomly broke up with
me on New Year's twenty New Year, and he I remember,
he said, come out to the car, like can we talk?

(50:25):
Like he posted a photo of me on Instagram at
three pm and at seven pm broke up with me
in the car okay, And I was like, what happened
in four hours? Like and I was starting to like
really fall Yeah. I mean I was having thoughts like
I think I can marry this person and I have
never felt that way if you're a guy and I've

(50:45):
dated you and I talked about marriage with you. I
was lying, like I was just trying to please you.
I have actually never been open and marrying somebody until
I was with Dylan, and it was honest because like
he wasn't obsessed with me. We were friends first. He
like didn't have like.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
You. I don't know, the guys you dated were obsessed
with you. I always had the opposite. No one was
ever obsessed with me. I was trying to hunt them down.
I'm like, I normal.

Speaker 4 (51:17):
I only dated guys who are obsessed with me, probably
from me Aga or something. But I also didn't respect it,
like if I was.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
I was opposite. I'm like, I'm gonna make you love me,
and then I did a few times.

Speaker 4 (51:30):
I do get I told you I had the full
human experience, Chuck, I did that as well. But yeah,
I just I don't know. I didn't have a lot
of respect for guys who like agreed.

Speaker 3 (51:46):
With everything I say, right, yeah, gross.

Speaker 4 (51:49):
You know, like you can do no wrong. I'm like,
I'm treating you like kind of grap Like what do
you mean doing lots of wrong? A lot of wrong,
bad things. And Dylan was the first one to be like,
no I'm not doing that, And I was like, really,
why not. It's like cuz I'm not No, I'm not
interested in that literally at all. And I was like, okay,

(52:10):
I love you, Okay, Like do you want to date?
So anyway, I was like, what happened in freaking four
hours that made him dump me? And I remember getting
in his car that night and he was crying before
I even got in the car, and I'm like, what's up?
And He's like basically told me like I've been basically

(52:31):
living a double life the last four months, but like
not in a cheating way, and like a I am
so anxious about dating you and being together. He said,
I get anxiety every time I get into a relationship.
And I feel like you like that. You think I'm confident,
you think I'm secure, but I'm not at all. I'm
so wildly anxious. Like he lost like twenty pounds, like

(52:53):
he was losing weight. I just thought he was exercising,
but no, he was anxious.

Speaker 3 (52:56):
Diagnosis exactly.

Speaker 4 (52:57):
It's called RSCD. It's relationship obsessive impulsive disorder.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
Oh my god. Yeah, So it's so every time he
got in a relationship. What does you think is gonna happen.

Speaker 4 (53:07):
He would just have all these intrusive thoughts about, like
this person is not the right person, Like I'll give
you some like real examples from our relationship, like I
would go on a trip and I feel like our
breakup was spurned by this. I went on a on
a Christmas trip with my family. We went to Prague

(53:28):
because my sister is living there at the time, so cool,
super cool, and Dylan and I were dating. And while
I was gone, Dylan didn't feel like he missed me enough.
He was having fun with his friends, he was having
fun with his family, and he had this thought like
I'm okay without her here, Like do I not miss

(53:49):
her enough? Does that mean I don't love her enough?
Like I should miss her more if she was the one?
And then he spirals, and then he just spirals, and
then we see each other again. In for the first
like four hours of being together, he has this wallup, like.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
Because he's like already created this whole story in his
head like something's wrong one.

Speaker 4 (54:04):
Hundred percent, Like just these intrusive thoughts like is she
not Christian enough? Is she not pretty enough? Is she
not smart enough? She not? But all like all these
things that he feels shame for even thinking because he
knows they're not true. But it's like, but his mind
is running wild, is mine? Yeah, it's like the you know,
his OCD is not checked the back door ten times.

(54:26):
It's have an intrusive thought about is my relationship right?

Speaker 3 (54:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (54:31):
And then just it's intrusive thoughts are no jokes.

Speaker 3 (54:35):
I mean they get everybody and it's hard to like
have have techniques to work through them.

Speaker 4 (54:41):
Yeah. So when we got back together through we did
not speak for three months. Like I did not know
he was figuring any of this stuff out about it.
All I knew was he was anxious he had to leave.
I was like, just so you know, I love you
and I thought we were gonna get married and I'm not.
I'm not letting you leave this parking lot without me

(55:01):
telling you that. So that you know that we're breaking
up right now because of you, not because of me.
I will not be speaking to you after this moment.
I hope you figure it out. If I actually love you,
I have to honor how you feel right now. But
like you want this, I don't, and I just want

(55:24):
to make that clear. So if you're okay with leaving
right now. You just have to know that you are
losing all access to me forever if you leave right now,
which again you are free to I'm just letting you know,
like what to expect out of me. And he was like, yeah,
I gotta go. I was like, Okay, that didn't work.

(55:44):
I was like, really try so he leaves. I was devastated.
There's like videos of me, like crying on the couch
that they did play at our rehearsal dinner, which is
really messed up of them. But anyway, we did not
speak for three months. And three months later, I was
actually with Raylan and I love Raylan me too. She's

(56:07):
a best and you wrote bra off with her? Yeah,
I did, freaking of course. It means so fun. I'm
with Raylan and my sister, and I was I had
reached the anger stage of breakup, and I was like,
I have Dylan. We had such a good thing going,
like what the heck blah blah blah. And I didn't
know about the RCD. He didn't even know about the RCD.

(56:28):
I'm like, what the like, what the hell? And we
had not spoken. It was genuinely a clean break, like
three months from January first to March. I think we
got back together like March twenty fifth or something like that.
And Anna said maybe you should send him an email
and I was like, oh why, and she was like, well, no,
one wants to get like a text novel those are
like intimidating, but like a letter is like what are

(56:50):
you in the notebook? Like that's like two No, it's
not good either. And she was like, just an email.
It's for you, it's not for him. Your words aren't
watered down with like two am I miss you texta
like You've grown a lot in these few months, You've
processed a lot, Like it's just for you to tell him.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
A total it's a huge mistake.

Speaker 4 (57:11):
Yeah, And so I'm like, okay, I'm little drunk, ring
out and very mad, so I'm going to sleep on
it csycho phone. I'm like, God, if I am not
supposed to send this email, did you write it?

Speaker 3 (57:23):
No? Okay.

Speaker 4 (57:24):
I was like, I'm going to send an email in
the morning unless I wake up tomorrow morning. And I
feel in every fiber of my being that I am
not to write that email, Like I trust you. I
don't want to make the wrong choice.

Speaker 3 (57:35):
Sleeping on it.

Speaker 4 (57:36):
So I'm going to bed, and I remember going to
bed thinking God's definitely gonna let me write the email
because I asked, and what rugginhearted girl asks what they want?
And I asked, God, what do you want? You checked
for that, And so I wake up the next morning
it's a no.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
Like you felt it.

Speaker 4 (57:57):
Every five I could not send the email. Every fiber
of my being was like, don't send this email. So
I thought, okay. I'm like, okay, I guess I'm supposed
to move on. So I got up, I put clothes on,
I grabbed my computer. I'm like, I'm getting out of
the house today. I'm not going to be a depressed
bitch today, gonna go kill it. I walk into this

(58:18):
coffee shop down the street of my house and Dylan
sitting and right in the front, like right.

Speaker 3 (58:25):
What is he doing to be right next to your house?

Speaker 4 (58:27):
He turns out one of his friends did tell him
that I had been going there and he had been
posting up there to turn and run into me, but.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
I did not know that.

Speaker 4 (58:38):
I walked in and I was like, I'm so glad,
Oh my god. It was crazy, and I remember like.

Speaker 3 (58:49):
Seeing him and just wanting to kiss him.

Speaker 4 (58:52):
No, I just wanted him to know that I was
still holding strong. So I was like, thank god you
didn't write that.

Speaker 3 (58:58):
He out. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:59):
I go up to him and he's like, Hi, like,
how are you? And I'm like good, no thanks to you,
but good like in spite of you. Yeah. And I
kept telling myself yeah, and I was like, don't ask
him how he is. You don't care how he is.
Don't ask him how he is. You don't care. And
so I just stood there and he's like, well, I'm
not doing good, like at all.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
And I was like he found out he did actually
miss you.

Speaker 4 (59:23):
Yeah. So I was like okay, I'm gonna go sit down.
He's like okay, and then one of my songs starts
playing over this which Speaker and Frobby, this song I
did when I was like a artist.

Speaker 3 (59:37):
Yeah, he's gotten working out here.

Speaker 4 (59:40):
God was like, I got you, girl, Like, don't I'm
gonna hit this of Courus ended, he closed his computer,
he got up, he leaves. I thought, oh, I ran home,
like texting all my sisters like you guys I just saw, don't.
The craziest thing just happened and he reached out to me,
like probably a week later, we ended up going on
this hike and we talked for like seven hours about everything,

(01:00:04):
like even from the start of our friendship, like where
I went wrong, where he went wrong, like just being
honest about everything we had never been honest about before.
And it felt like a leap, like we decided to
get back together, but it was kind of like a
this feels like jumping off a cliff. Are we going
to do it? It was like yeah. And then about
a week into us being back together, we found out

(01:00:27):
about the ROCD and he was scrolling online just trying
to figure out why.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
He had all this anxiety.

Speaker 4 (01:00:37):
He had all this anxiety, and an article about ROCD
popped up on his Google and he read it and
he brought it to me. He said, this is exactly
this is me. And he told me, I have googled
why I'm anxious dating a girl for ten years. Every
girlfriend I've ever had, I've googled that. That has never

(01:00:59):
popped up before. Nothing's ever popped up that made me
feel seen scene or like known or given me anything
to work with. And he was like, I remember him
telling me, like, I don't think it's coincidence that I
get my answers, and you're the girl standing in front
of me when I get them. And we've been very
open about the fact that, like, if he got that

(01:01:19):
answer with any one of his other girlfriends, he probably
could have ended up with her. But I'm the person
who was standing in front of him when he finally
did get that answer, and it gave him relief, but
it also started a whole journey. So he took I
remember he had paid like six or seven grand to

(01:01:39):
go to on site in August that year. Yeah, and
he was also to go to on site and then
the world shut down and so they gave him his
money back and he was like, well, maybe on site
would not have helped me, and so he found an
OCD roc CO which they're out of La. Yeah. It

(01:02:03):
was this woman out of LA who had had r
c D and got into a place of healing where
now she was coaching other people who had r c D.
And he gave all his money to her and spent
the next four months. So yeah, that it's why we're married. Honestly,

(01:02:23):
she was at her she came to her wedding. We
invited her. Yeah, so our CD I know. So Dylan
did something called acceptance commitment therapy and then he worked
with Chelsea and basically what acceptance commitment therapy is is, Okay,
I'm anxious right now. I accept that I'm having an

(01:02:43):
anxious thought. Like I accept that because a lot of
the times, you know, you get an anxious thought.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
Or you think it for anyone who has intrusive thoughts, yeah,
sure I was more than our president before. Like my
sweet little daughter is starting to have like fear about
which is that come into her head and she can't
stop thinking about him, like that I'm going to die
or something. You know, it happens all the time. It's
helped me a lot, great advice.

Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
Yeah, Dylan's helps me a lot with this. So you
accept the thought. You accept it, you accept it. You
don't try to push it away, no, because when you
do that you get more anxious. It creates this like
anxious shame cycle or you shame yourself for having a thought,
and that's you try to not helpful either, you're scared
of it, push it to get away. So you accept it,
then you diffuse from it. So like that thought is

(01:03:26):
not me, just like that pillows not me. Like, yeah,
that thought is like Let's imagine you know, me, him
and his thoughts. That's three different people in the room.
Like I'm in the room, he's in the room and
his thoughts. You your thoughts too, Yeah, my thoughts too,
But in the in the scope of RSCD, like his
thoughts are just like a third person trying to protect

(01:03:47):
him from making a bad decision. You know, he does
not have to. Those thoughts are not him.

Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
He does not honor them.

Speaker 4 (01:03:55):
Yes, there he always still this day when I am
going through my brain, tell me crazy shit, He's like,
what do we do? And I'm like, thank you for
your input? I just like, is that what my brain?

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
You accept it?

Speaker 4 (01:04:08):
Accept it? I go, thank you for your input.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
Thank you for trying to keep me safe?

Speaker 4 (01:04:10):
Yes, exactly, because that's all. That's all it'ssuming. Those thoughts
are just trying your brains a predictive machine. It's just
trying to keep you safe.

Speaker 3 (01:04:17):
So then what's the next step.

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
The next step is hold on acceptance commitment therapy. Oh yeah,
a commitment to your values. So you accept the thought,
you diffuse from it, and then you go, who am
I what do I value? I commit to that? So
right now I accept that I'm having this anxious thought

(01:04:38):
about like okay, perfect example. Back to the miscarriage stuff,
Dylan had opened up to me that he felt and
he's posted this online too so I can share. But
he opened up to me that he had a lot
of shame about not being as sad about our miscarriages
as I was just very normal for a guy, very

(01:05:00):
normal for a guy. Yes, we talked about before, but
he had this intrusive thought like does that mean that
I don't want to be a dad as bad as
you want to be a mom, or that I'm not
so sweet he's so sweet.

Speaker 3 (01:05:10):
Or this is just so kind. He's worried that he's
not sad enough.

Speaker 4 (01:05:13):
One hundred percent, he was worried that he wasn't sad enough.
And that's the whole thing behind our CD. It's like
there's a difference between someone constantly questioning your intelligence or
your beauty or your whatever maliciously because there but there
was all it was always backed by this like sadness
that he was even thinking to me more or that
shame exactly, and like I you know the way they

(01:05:35):
talk about relationships, like if it's not a hell yes,
it's a hell no. And like they just say things
like that, and it's like, so anyway, he he has
had a lot of shame about not being as sad
about and he was like, does that mean I'm not
as committed to our marriage as she is because she's
more sad than I am. And he had told me
he brought that up in a coaching session and they said, you,

(01:05:58):
the fact that you're even worried about that number one
shows your commitment to your wife and to your family.
Like the fact that you're even concerned you're not, you know,
upset enough says a lot. But he had to, you know,
look at his value, like who he is, what he values, reality,
what he knows to be true, and choose that over

(01:06:20):
the anxious thought that's trying to protect him. And that's
kind of what except his commitment therapy is exposure I
remember exposure therapy is something they do for SCD. I
remember him telling me like, hey, I can't get better
single because when I'm single, I don't have a girl,
I don't have a relationship to be anxious about. He

(01:06:43):
was like, you, dating you is my exposure therapy, and
you're kind of.

Speaker 3 (01:06:46):
The perfect one because you're so insightful.

Speaker 4 (01:06:49):
I'm glad you said that. He literally I tell him
all the time. I'm like, you cannot have gotten to
do that with any other bitch, baby, perfect lucky. I'm
a good relationship with my dad.

Speaker 3 (01:06:59):
And I remember he, yeah, you're so deep and you
go deep.

Speaker 4 (01:07:03):
And I remember like three weeks in as dating and
we had found out about the RSCD and we were
in the car and he's crying. He's like, you don't
even want to know some of the things I think
about you. I'm like, tell me, like what. He's like, No,
I you don't even want to know. And I'm like what.
He goes, I genuinely think I'm better than you, and
I started laughing. I was like, what you're not, Like, Okay,

(01:07:25):
I've imagined twenty reasons why you're not better than me
number one, And he started laughing. He's like, wow, it
sounds really stupid when I say it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:32):
All he could have the you were a safe place
where he could say these thoughts intrusive that he knows
aren't true, but they're plaguing ye.

Speaker 4 (01:07:40):
And part of the dance of learn of through r SCD.
You you're not You're not brother than me. I have
like literally twenty reasons off the top of my head
while you're not brother me. And so we ended up
like laughing about it and he's like, oh my god,
you probably felt so much total I'm not. But one
thing that he had to look like there's two people

(01:08:01):
showing up in a situation like that, And on his
end he had to learn what not to tell me.
What wasn't my business, Like, what's something we actually have
to talk about as a couple, And what's a thought
that is just like a thought, a thought, just a
terrible thought. And as soon as it comes in, he
has the power and to say and the tools to

(01:08:22):
be like, no, that's not me.

Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
Yeah, thank you for trying to protect me, but actually
thank you, but actually.

Speaker 4 (01:08:28):
She's the shit. Yeah I commit, you know, and it's
just kind of like, yeah, it's this. So there's learning that,
and then on my end there was learning how to
I remember one time he said, Emily, you have to
trigger me. Wear whatever you want. Say whatever you want.

Speaker 3 (01:08:47):
Is what you wear triggering.

Speaker 4 (01:08:48):
No, no, no, he just was like my one of my
It was beautiful because like the key to his growth
was the key to my growth, in the sense of
like when I'm truly mirrors for each other. We really
are verage just such a mirror. It's such a mirror,
and we're both such communicators. Like if there's an issue,
that's the key.

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
There's not resentment, just say how you feel, because you're
not doing it to hurt the other person.

Speaker 4 (01:09:09):
No, we're a team, like we're trying to like we
both want the same thing.

Speaker 3 (01:09:12):
At the end, I love that you're saying, I'm okay
with your brokenness and you're okay with my brokenness. Let's
not try to hide our brokenness from each other. Instead,
let's come together.

Speaker 4 (01:09:21):
Well, his ego had to die in the sense of,
like this perfect thing that I think is out there
actually is there, and like it's I get anxious about
these things, sumbly. If I was with that girl, I
get anxious about different things.

Speaker 3 (01:09:36):
But the fact is that you're willing to have such
a deep rooted relationship and go there. And I feel,
you know, like if he wouldn't have ended up with
someone like you and say he did get in a
committed relationship but never could go there, he would live
in constant measure his.

Speaker 4 (01:09:49):
Own you know, And my ego had to die of
like what I think I deserve Like I was like, oh,

(01:10:10):
I deserve someone who loves me like my dad and
is obsessed with me. And then I go, I've never
respected that, right, you know, Like I know, at the
end of the day, I always say my husband is
a good man. He's not a nice man. He's a
good man, and.

Speaker 3 (01:10:23):
Why not nice.

Speaker 4 (01:10:24):
He's just like not, you're not going to walk all
over him, You're just not, Like he's not He's kind,
but he's not like a nice guy, like just trying
to keep the peace. Don't come too close. I'm like, yeah,
I mean he's the most like safe, loving person. But
it's like, you know, if someone tried to cheat me
out of two hundred bucks, I'm like, yeah, you can

(01:10:44):
have it. Oh yeah, sorry, sorry, yeah take my money.
He's like absolutely not give me my money back, Like
that's not happening. But like he's a good man, he's right,
he's just he's like he's fair, he's he's so safe,
and he's so kind and loving, but he's not just
like a nice guy just trying to keep the peace
with everybody. He's not afraid to like stand up for

(01:11:05):
what he knows is true and what is right and
say the truth, and he'd rather you know, it helps
him sleep at night. He can't sleep at night if
he feels like he's lying to anybody that's gat And
so it's like, you know, my ego had to kind
of die of like, oh, there's not a prince on

(01:11:26):
a white horse coming to save me and make me
feel like a beautiful fairy angel all the time, you
know what I mean. Like there are things about me
that aren't his favorite, and there are things about him
that are not my favorite. But at the end of
the day, we are best friends. And I know he's
for me. I know he loves me. I'm for him,

(01:11:47):
I love him, And most of all, I know that
he chose me in the face of all of his anxieties,
in the face of, like with all the thoughts going
through his head, Like I he chose me. He picked me,
and he chose to work on himself, and he still
does be with you.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
And that's the thing, Like we all have some sort
of mental issue going on up here, and the fact
that like I feel like that is what marriage is,
because like Michael and I have had such a layered
relationship with so many highs and so many lows and
trauma and pain and sadness and great and all of it.
But it's like, it's not all freaking roses and butterflies.
It like to me like a real Maybe some people

(01:12:28):
have an easy go and say like hop on a
sailboat and life is easy in your marriage. That has
not been ours so hard, but it has been so
rewarding because when you get in there with somebody and
you really like commit and you work through the worst, hardest,
most painful, yuckiest parts about yourself and their self and
you heal together and then you elevate, It's like, man,

(01:12:51):
holy shit, we are we are a team.

Speaker 4 (01:12:54):
We are welded together.

Speaker 3 (01:12:56):
Yes, I mean literally, because you go through the trenches
with somebody, you do.

Speaker 4 (01:13:01):
And I'm not worried about being fifty and my husband
thinking having a midlife crisis of like, oh, I don't
feel the way I used to feel for her, like
I'm gonna go blah blah blah. It's like, no, we
kind of cross that bridge when we first started dating,
which is out of you know, we had to learn

(01:13:24):
it as a choice from day one, Like it is not.
It was not my dream when I was a kid
to be like, oh, yeah, my husband's gonna have a
doubting disease and I'm gonna be the doubts. I'm gonna
be the thingy doubts at my intelligence, my beauty, all
these things and like that. Yeah, like you're like, oh,
time me up. That's perfect, And you know he has

(01:13:46):
his own things where it's like, but all I am
so thankful he has that. We've been out of the
marriage we have. If he didn't have OURCD, we he's
by the way, gotten to a place of healing with
it where he's now helping coach other men who struggle
with that. He's in the middle of his he's done

(01:14:06):
with the classes, but now he's gaining his hours for
his own coaching certification and he's and again like not
just many of RCD, like those principles apply to those
are tools in life in general to be like, oh
the world's telling me this or oh I'm thinking this,
but this is who I am, and like I need

(01:14:29):
to be in the practice of making decisions from that place,
not out of the place of what I'm thinking or
feeling in the moment, because that's fleeting and this is true.
And so if I continue to choose from a place
of what I value and who I am over how
I feel or what I think, then that's going to
be a pretty unstable life. And this is me planting

(01:14:50):
seeds in a garden that's going to grow. And I
remember Dylan, his coach, saying like, can you grow love
with this person? Not is she perfect? Well your marriage,
will your relationship be perfect? But is this someone you
can grow love with? I love that And his answer
in regard to me was yeah. And so that's been
our marriage is like and that's growing, boy, growing a

(01:15:12):
sex life, growing like all these growing.

Speaker 3 (01:15:15):
A sex life. Because you also say this in one
of your songs with Daniel brad Ray, is it broken boy?
Like I thought, yeah, was going to be what's the
word to use? I thought sex shameless?

Speaker 4 (01:15:22):
Sex shameless?

Speaker 3 (01:15:23):
I know, like throw me out because the wall some
nobody have to have any moment. Not that those moments don't,
they absolutely do. Not.

Speaker 4 (01:15:31):
The consistency, no, no, especially like when you're raised Christian
like we both were, and it's like stuff is bad
and you're told that like your whole life.

Speaker 3 (01:15:40):
I've had trouble opening up it with intimacy, Like that's
been a journey for me to like even learn how
to be super free with that. It was not natural.

Speaker 4 (01:15:49):
No, same like as we used to always dress.

Speaker 3 (01:15:52):
So sexy and present this sexy self, but like, will
you get me in a sexual situation.

Speaker 4 (01:15:56):
Or literally twins? Literally twins. I always joke I was
such a tea Like my whold funny is I was
such a teaser.

Speaker 3 (01:16:02):
Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (01:16:02):
I would never actually blow you, but I would definitely
make you think I would. Yeah, you know, like I.

Speaker 3 (01:16:07):
Would walk across the room and like a hundred percent
I can work work it, but like get me in
a closed space and like, oh my.

Speaker 4 (01:16:13):
God, absolutely running for the hill. I'm so with yeah
that not having it, And you know, I think I
think on the other end of it, like you know,
there's there's even this. It's all like culture and what
we're told and you have this expectation set up. Like
I my best friend and I she got married like
six months before I did, and we would talk all

(01:16:34):
the time like married sex is so weird. It's like
you're getting better every night, and it's like we're gonna
are we gonna do it? And then it's like weird
because then you're in your head like because you know,
it just was like super weird, no for.

Speaker 3 (01:16:48):
It all the time.

Speaker 4 (01:16:48):
Yeah, because in your brain one hundred percent, and in
your brain you're like, oh, we're gonna get married and
then it's just wild sex all the time. It's literally
not true. And then you know, in Dylan's end, we
joke like you see those tiktoks were like I take
my clip out and the husband pops around the corner
like like, let's have sex. Not all men are like that,
don't just like sometimes he doesn't want it right.

Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
Like you're naked in a shower and it's gonna be
like happening a.

Speaker 4 (01:17:12):
Hundred yeah, but it's not always gonna be happening like
he's always have sex all the time. No, honestly, not me.
I mean I do, but I don't, you know, and
I just.

Speaker 3 (01:17:21):
I mean a couple times a week, I'm solid after
being married, not ten years. I mean that's a lot
of sex.

Speaker 4 (01:17:26):
Yeah, I mean it's a lot of sex. We're not
as far as that, but I definitely, like I think
even expectations around sex.

Speaker 3 (01:17:34):
You had to let them go, like everything you have
to figure it out.

Speaker 4 (01:17:37):
Yeah, and then you get into like trying to have
a baby.

Speaker 3 (01:17:39):
Sex that's weird, right because now you're doing when you're ovulating.

Speaker 4 (01:17:42):
That's so weird. And also it's like you're doing it
a lot, and it's just feels scheduled. There's no room
for like spiciness or like it's just kind of like
we're daying again in the same position on the same bed,
in the same room at the same time, and it's just.

Speaker 3 (01:17:57):
Like m hmm.

Speaker 4 (01:17:59):
I don't know. I think we are still growing that,
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:18:04):
Yeah, like fully comfortable with someone. I don't know if you.
I don't know if you ever fully because we were
always evolving.

Speaker 4 (01:18:10):
Yeah, And I talked to my friends who were thirteen
years in a marriage who were saying, we're just now
hitting our sex tride thirteen years in you know what
I mean, where it's like And I always get so
encouraged by that because it's like, you know it, Yeah,
you you just build safety, and you grow safety and
you grow comfort, and you just keep pouring into something

(01:18:33):
and planting those seeds until you wake up one day
and you're like, oh wow, I felt like so myself,
I feel so myself with you sexually, And I can't
say I felt that six months ago or a year ago,
because I didn't really know what that was supposed to be,
like how I was supposed to feel I was supposed
to be, and you just there's so many expectations that
we just like we.

Speaker 3 (01:18:52):
Put on ourselves. And that's why I love that you
share about this and that you share about this in
your songwriting, because you're hitting such a market of I'm
sure men too, but like women who are just like,
thank you so much for writing songs that I can
relate to that I don't have to feel like I
have to be in cut off shorts and like the
girls shaking my booty at a concert to like be valued.

(01:19:13):
It's like, no, there's this whole layered world of being
a woman that you just like your song just hit
and I'm just gonna go through some of the ones
because I'm sure we're at an hour. How long have
we been going? Hay, Oh my gosh, we've got to
wrap up. Oh my gosh, Okay, we've got to wrap up. Okay,
this is I could talk to you for ever, but
like yeah, yeah, Daniel Bradbury, like wedding, our funeral. You're

(01:19:35):
talking about like how an ex is getting married and
the feeling of like it's a wedding for them, but
it's a funeral for you. It's just like, you write
these vivid experiences that we feel as females, and you
put like so much heart and soul into it, and
you make us make it a specific moment that we
all have been in. It's like, oh my god, I
freaking relate to you. So I just love you, Emily

(01:19:56):
and thank you so much for your songwriting. I would
keep talking to you forever, but we're already almost a
an hour and a half. Oh my gosh. I always
wrop up with Leave your Light. You have so much
wisdom to share. You're sharing it with the world through
your music. You're putting such vulnerable stories and scenarios into
songs that we get to feel and heal with. I mean,
I know for a fact you have healed me with

(01:20:17):
two of your songs that really means get champagne and
sushi that I will. And then like I'm hearing these
other ones and I'm like all these songs they just
I feel seen as a woman. I feel seen that
like you are expressing parts of me that I can
think about and I can go to therapy about. But
then when you hear them in a song, it just
hits so much different. You know, I get amusing.

Speaker 4 (01:20:38):
I think saying things you can't say sometimes, which.

Speaker 3 (01:20:40):
Is hand and you're a master at that. So I
always wrap up with leave your light, and it's just
super open ended. What do you want people to know?
Just inspiration? Hm?

Speaker 4 (01:20:54):
I oh god, people don't know. Well, I can tell
you what I've been holding on too lately, which is
not necessarily mind blowing. Every season ends, I.

Speaker 3 (01:21:20):
Think it's been such a season.

Speaker 4 (01:21:21):
I've been that too, and I'm in the middle of
a hard season still. Like I, like you said, I
don't have my kids yet, and I just got some
answers from doctors on why I have been losing children.
So that did you have mt FR? Yeah? I have that,
but I have a toxic lead build up that they

(01:21:42):
found and it's been Yeah, you got to cleanse it out. Yeah,
I got to cleanse it out. Like my my pregnancy
hormones have been attaching to the lead in my body.
So it's been going on so long that my brain
thinks pregnancy hormones are lead. Oh, because they bonded together
in my body.

Speaker 3 (01:22:02):
Answer.

Speaker 4 (01:22:03):
Yeah, so I have to do this heavy metal detals,
but you know I have to I have I still
have four months before I can even try to get
pregnant again in the Dee Talks. So it's like I'm
doing the math in my head of like and I
told someone the other day, like my year has been
like a lot of radio singles, no hits, a lot

(01:22:24):
of pregnancies, no babies. It's been like the last had
like six songs to country radio and they've all died
in like the between like ten and seventeen, Like none
of them have run the bell that's high. Yeah, it's
still good, but it's like you know the number one,
it's not the number one, and it's just like every
time it's just like, you know, lose a baby, four

(01:22:44):
days later, lose a single, it's like god, okay, Like
when do I get to celebrate something? Yeah, Like I'm
longing for something to celebrate right now, and so I'm
having to lean into little things like that my guard
I have a little tomato popping out, or like my
dad is alive and well my mom. I could call

(01:23:05):
them and go to their house right now if I
wanted to and hang out with them, and so things
can always be worse and they can always be better,
like someone always has it worse and someone always has
it better. But I think right now I'm just leaning
into the truth that seasons end, even if they feel

(01:23:25):
like they never will. And so, yeah, I've had seasons
in the past of heartbreak and those seasons have ended,
and I've had seasons of joy and it is of ended,
and I'm in another season of heartbreak. And for some reason,
not getting the number ones and not getting the babies

(01:23:47):
is the loving thing for me right now. I don't
know why, but if I really believe God is loving,
then it is loving for me to have lost children
this year, and it is loving for me to not
get to number one this year. I don't know why.
I don't know what that's teaching me.

Speaker 3 (01:24:03):
I don't know, but you know it is.

Speaker 4 (01:24:04):
But I'm choosing to believe that it is the loving
It's what I need right now. Ultimately, it's it's ultimately
for my highest good right now. It's what I need
right now. Apparently I don't know why, but something's happening
in me because of all that that I'll need for
the next season. And so, yeah, whatever season you're in
right now, it will end and a new one will begin,

(01:24:26):
because that's the nature. That's nature, it's the nature of life,
and that helps me hold on when I just feel
like it's never going to get better. And I so
desperately want to meet my babies, you know, And I've
we talked about my husband, like I love my husband
so deeply. I want to like look at a kid
and see him in that little kid, and and just

(01:24:48):
like for our marriage, for our friendship, like I just
we both long for that like so much. So I'm
the best ever. Thanks. I can't wait to see I'm
gonna be a mom, damn it as.

Speaker 3 (01:25:01):
You are well, Emily, thank you so much for joining me.
Everyone yo need to follow Emily Wiseman on Instagram, Twitter,
all the things. Check out your music. You're truly one
of the greatest songwriters I feel like in country music.
Like I just think you are so incredible at getting
these big feelings and thoughts out into songs that are
just so relatable and hit so hard. So thank you so.

Speaker 4 (01:25:24):
Much for your beautiful speaking life into me.

Speaker 3 (01:25:26):
Oh thank you for joining me and talking about really serious,
hard topics and conversation. I guess I know that's where
your incredible songwriting.

Speaker 4 (01:25:35):
Thanks for doing this podcast and wanting to talk about
that stuff. Well, yes, cool.

Speaker 3 (01:25:40):
Can you stick around for a few wording questions, just
a little quick bonus episode, Okay, Emily Wiseman, thank you
soar for joining

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Host

Caroline Hobby

Popular Podcasts

40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season

Dateline NBC

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EMILY WEISBAND: Getting Real about Losing Pregnancies, Love That’s Not a Fairytale & How Writing Songs has Been Her Saving Grace