December 16, 2024 • 23 mins
Dr. Wendy is covering all things Luigi Mangione and the psychology behind his decision and a lot of people's love for him. PLUS we are talking to Wellington Soares about the Transgender community leaving the country due to the new presidency. It's all on KFIAM-640!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to KFI
AM six forty the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on demand
on the iHeartRadio App.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Wall Show on k I AM six forty Live everywhere
on the iHeartRadio App. Okay, I gotta address it because
every late late night comic has talked about it. There
are articles where psychologists are weighing in about it. People
are fan girling over this. Luigi Maggione, Kayla, why are
(00:32):
girls falling in love with an assassin?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Did you see him with his shirt off?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Nope?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Did you hear about his height? Did you see those
eyebrow policy? I heard six to two? What yes, ma'am.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
An Ivy League Education sixty two? Oh my goodness. Well,
I thought, since the world is doing it, that we
would try to do we would play. Look, I'm a
psychology professor, and I asked my students to do this
in a DIMS all the time. Let's play armchair psychologist
for Luigi MAGGIONI. Okay, First of all, he can't claim
(01:09):
he's insane, So that you understand that the legal definition
of insane is very different than our general definition of
having a mental disorder. Right, the legal definition of insane
means that they're incompetent to stand trial.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
It means that their mental illness involves such impairments of
their thinking that they can't even understand the trial process
and they can't assist in their own defense.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I don't think that's him, right, I mean, no, he's
pretty smart. Yeah, he's pretty smart.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
So the thinking, according to the Internet and the psychologists
that are weighing in in the news stories, is that
he has one of three personality disorders. So I thought
we would go through the various personality disorders. I would
look up the DSM criteria, that's the diagnostic and statistic
and manual of mental disord and we would together, if
(02:02):
you're listening, try to diagnose Luigi Maggioni, because everybody else
in America is all right, the big one. Let's start
off with narcissistic personality disorder. I know half the women
on the Internet think that they are dating a man
with a narcissistic personality disorder, but just because somebody's low
in empathy, and that may just mean ladies, he's a
(02:26):
typical heterosexual male. No, there's research on this you guys
that men actually have less empathy, And I think, if
I'm thinking about it, you know, from an evolutionary standpoint,
I would say it's because back in our hunter gatherer past,
these hunters had to stare into the eyes of a
living animal before they killed it right between the eyes
(02:49):
with a spear, and they had no time for empathy
at that moment. So there's a little spillover there, all right.
But the actual criteria for a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder,
which is estimated more men than women have it, but
it's still in like two maybe three percent of the population. Okay, ladies,
I hear. That's still three out of one hundred guys
(03:10):
that you date. And like everything, it's a scale. But
what it is is a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, either
in a belief system like they just believe they're better
than everybody else, or behavior they need admiration. Stop thinking
about our president intellecture saying they have a lack of empathy.
(03:32):
And here's the key for a true narcissistic personality disorder.
All this pattern has to begin early, but not in childhood,
usually early adulthood. And I should tell you this narcissists
usually give birth to narcissists, not because it's genetic, but
they learn it. It's modeled for them, and it may
have a genetic piece. I mean, every mental thing is
partly biology and partly what's going on in our environment.
(03:57):
So some of the core symptoms are a grandiose sense
of self importance. Okay, Luigi does he think? Does he
exaggerate his achievements or his talents? Does he expect to
be recognized as a superior. Let's think about this for
a minute.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I don't know. I mean, I think he does have talents.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
He got good grades, he was a high achiever, valedictorian,
member of this special computer group at Penn.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
At Penn, he's at an IVY league. I know he's
actually doing it right.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Also a symptom might be preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, brilliance, power, beauty,
belief that they are special or unique. I have not
heard any of the friends that have weighed in about
Luigi say that he thought he was special or unique
(04:48):
unless he kept it all inside. So another one might
be this need for excessive admiration. Again, I don't really
think Luigi has this need then this sense of entitlement.
Perhaps I just not hearing it. Lack of empathy, oh yeah,
(05:08):
unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs
of others. If you are able to murder somebody, I
don't think you have strong empathy. Right then arrogant, haughty,
or just have attitudes where you think you're just cool.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Again. I just don't see that this is our Luigi.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
If I were a psychologist, I would not give him
this diagnosis.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Okay, let's move to another one.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Some psychologists in the media are saying that he may
have borderline personality disorder. Okay, so I definitely don't think
this is him. So it's defined as a pervasive pattern
of an instability in interpersonal relationships marked impulsivity. I don't
(05:59):
think he was impulsive here. Think you planned this and
it begins in early adulthood. Okay, but you have to
have five or more of the following symptoms. Frantic efforts
to avoid real or imagined abandonment.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
That's not our Luigi. He abandoned everybody else, he went
to Hawaii and lost touch.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
That's not like how a borderline I mean, yeah, a
borderline would be hit. Let's see a pattern of unstable
and intense interpersonal relationships. No, he didn't really have a
lot of close interpersonal relationships, not like you know, like
people that are borderline are like drama. Queens create drama.
(06:37):
There's fights and conflicts and then rushing to get back together.
The highs the lows. No, an identity disturbance. Maybe persistently
unstable self image or sense of self. Yes, especially once
he got into a lot of pain. Oh but wait,
recurrent suicidal behavior. Uh, chronic feelings of emptiness, maybe inappropriate
(07:01):
or intense anger or difficulty controlling anger. We don't have
never heard any reports that he had an angry outbursts
in the past. Back to you, seemed pretty calm when
he committed that murder. I just don't know. I'm not
good and give him borderline. If I'm going to be
an armchair, I'm not going to do it. So let's
(07:21):
go to the one that I think many of the
psychologists have weighed in is the diagnosis that Luigi might
have if somebody were actually to interview him and figure
it out. It's called the anti social personality disorder. Let's
talk about the details when we come back. You're listening
to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty.
We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI
AM six forty, Live everywhere on.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
The iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Well, I am joining the chorus of lay people psychoanalyzing
Luigi MAGGIONI, the would be assassin, the alleged, the arrested.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
For Well, actually, has he been arrested, has he back
in New York? Has he extracited already? I don't know
where he is?
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Trying to figure out what personality disorder he might have.
So let's be armchair psychologists, shall we. Remember I'm not
a therapist, I'm a psychology professor. I do teach about
each of these disorders and what qualifies as a diagnosis.
So the one I think most applies to him is
(08:35):
anti social personality disorder. But there's a big butt and
it's coming off coming in a second. It's a pervasive
pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others.
Here's the key occurring since the age of fifteen years. Okay,
that might be it, But let's talk about you have
(08:57):
to have three or more of the following traits. Number one,
failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors,
as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Well, that's not him.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
We have he had no police record, no problems, no,
repeatedly that wasn't happening. Deceitfulness as indicated by repeated lying. Oh,
use of aliases, Oh oh yeah, he was using another id,
conning others for personal profit or pleasure.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Okay, so there's one. He's got to get three.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Number three impulsivity or failure to plan ahead.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
That is not him. He planned.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
If he did commit that murder, he planned it very well.
Number four irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical
fights or assaults. Nope, not him, So only have one
so far. We've got to have three. Number five, reckless
disregard for the safe of self or others. Yeah, I
(10:02):
think if you pull the trigger on somebody, that would
be reckless disregard for their safety.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
So we got two.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Next, consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain
consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations. We don't know
the answer about that. We know his work has been spotty,
we don't know about it. We haven't heard that he
ripped people off or didn't pay rent or any of
that stuff. So I'm not going to give that one
to him, but I will give him this next one.
(10:30):
Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent or rationalizing
having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Ding Ding ding Ing.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I think we might have the armchair diagnosis. A lack
of remorse, reckless disregard for the safety of others, and
failure to conform to social norms. Oh deceitfulness. No, anyway,
that would be criteria for anti social personality disorder.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
But guess what.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
You can't actually be given this diagnosis unless under the
age of fifteen you had something that's called a conduct disorder. So,
in other words, in order to have this personality disorder,
it had to have started in school when there were
all kinds of problems with teachers or what have you,
and we don't have any evidence of this. So it
(11:25):
made me start to think maybe this is all coming
about because of his pain, his physical pain after his
back surgery. It made me wonder, can chronic pain create
a mental health disorder? Well, it's a two way street,
of course, is that chronic pain can impact our mental health,
(11:46):
just as mental health can cause chronic pain.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Right, it is.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Some of the things that chronic pain is linked to
is depression, anxiety disorders, post traumatic stress disorder, if the
pain happened from something that was a danger thing. Substance
use disorders. We don't know about his substance use sleep disorders,
insomnia or poor quality sleep. We don't know about this,
(12:12):
cognitive impairment, brain fog again, especially if he's taking opioids.
This could be a problem. But you got to remember,
pain and mental health is by we call it bi directional, right,
So chronic pain can cause mental health problems. Mental health
problems can cause chronic pain. So it's going to take
(12:35):
some time. I'm sure his lawyers are going to argue
that he had some degree of mental illness. Now, if
I were a lawyer, now I'm going to stop being
armchair Psychologies is not going to be armchair lawyer. I
didn't go to law school. I have no idea what
I'm saying right now. But here's the case I present,
and again I'm defending him. So that's my job as
(12:58):
a lawyer. It doesn't mean I believe what I'm saying.
Does I mean I think he's a good guy? Okay,
he's an assassin, we think. I mean, everybody is guilty
until innocent, until proven guilty. But boy, there's a lot
of footage of this one. Anyway, I would say, uh,
if I was building a case that he if it's
true that he had tried to get help for his
(13:21):
chronic pain, that the back surgery didn't work, he needed
a revision surgery, his health care wouldn't cover it.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Maybe they'll find out he was with United health Care.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
It's he spent many months attempting to get out of
the pain, and so he acted out in a way
to hurt the person that was hurting him. He believed
in his fantasies it was the CEO of the company.
And so the trial, which will likely be in the
news for a very long time, might be an indictment
of health insurance companies. And you know, we're seeing this
(13:57):
voice of people rise up complaining online about this. I
don't know, Maybe there's so much going on in our
country and our culture right now, and trying to make
sense of right and wrong and good and bad and
health and unhealth is so difficult. When we come back,
(14:18):
I have a guest who's a reporter who's been covering
sort of the fallout from some of the pledges made
by President elect Donald Trump when it comes to trans kids,
and he has a few thoughts on how people are
feeling in this particular climate. You're listening to the Doctor
Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. We're live
(14:39):
everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Well, the map is the Doctor.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Wendy Wall Show on KFI AM six forty, Live everywhere
on the iHeartRadio app. Well, many of you know that
I am a professor of health psychology, and and as
part of it, I do a lecture on gender, not
only gender identity, but also gender role and also sexual orientation,
(15:10):
three distinct concepts. By the way, it is something that
is in the news a lot lately because President elect
Donald Trump has previously pledged to bar transgender athletes from
competing in women's and girls' sports and to band gender
affirming care for minors, and this week the Supreme Court
is considering it. I would like to welcome a reporter
(15:33):
who has been following this story closely, Wellington.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Sarah, So I know i'd mess it up.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Wellington, say your full name beautifully. Thank you for having me,
and you are a writer for Chalkbeat, amongst other places,
and talk to me a little bit about what's happening
with families and those in the transgender can unity as
(16:00):
we get closer to inauguration.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Berb, thank you so much for having me. Doctor Wendy Well.
Right after the election, we started talking to families and
reaching out to students and their families and their communities
to understand how they were feeling after the election. So
what we heard is that a lot of groups, a
lot of teenagers, especially students, they're really concerned regarding what
(16:28):
President elect Donald Trump has played during the campaign. But
we have also seen a lot of students and families
that are really looking for solutions and looking to good
community and looking for ways to kind of like resist
any type of change or any type of policies that
may come into place right after inauguration. So I would
say that what we're seeing is a mix of a
(16:50):
little bit of fear, a little bit of disillusion, but
also a lot of people trying to build community and
kind of like create a space that is safe, even
though they don't feel as safe in the political environment
right now.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
You know, I have this theory that the older politicians
and so many of our politicians are much older, and
the younger generation in America are two distinct cultures. You know,
last night, I was actually at a party and I
was talking to two public school teachers and they were
talking about how, you know, just you know, a decade ago,
(17:28):
you didn't see kids affirming their gender identity, being non
binary at the elementary school level, talking comfortably about same
sex relationships. It's almost like they are free, and yet
there is this older generation that seems to be trying
to put constraints. As an observer of culture, what do
(17:51):
you think of that?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
I think you're absolutely right. I've been or cancer journalists
for twelve years now, and I've covered this issue back
in Brazil and now here in the US, and I
see exactly what she meant. So ten years, twelve years ago,
when I started reporting, I would go to a school,
I would try and talk to students and this would
not be a topic that was so vibrant within the community.
(18:17):
But as years went by, now you can see pretty
much every school, you will see students that are more
comfortable with opening up about who they are. And in
this I just wanted to make sure that I'm being
clear that what used to happen before is not that
those people, those students didn't exist. It's just that they
didn't feel as comfortable coming out and talking about it
(18:39):
until later on. And what we've been saying is that
families in the community is a little more welcoming, and
so students are also feeling more open to talk about
who they are, how they feel, and how they want
to live their lives. But definitely that has caused also
some kind of like backlash and a lot of resistance
from people who are not really used to it or
(19:02):
don't quite understand what's happening.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
And I just want to clarify for some of our
listeners who might not be fully informed about trans people,
that there is a population of intersex and now I'm
using a biological term intersex humans that has existed since
the beginning of time.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
People born with features of both sexes.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
It is possible to be born with a penis and
overstucked inside. It is possible to be born with evolva
and undescended testes, and at puberty then we get secondary
sex characteristics that may tell a very different story. And
so I think it is important that we allow people
(19:46):
to be as free as they want to be along
their journey. But there are many people, and I'm sure
you've interviewed them, who are afraid of this.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Can you talk about that?
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Yes, Well, what we see now is just there is
a source of mind that used to say that sexuality,
engender identity is as diverse as the number of people
that we have in the world. I think we're eight
billion now, so there's like eight billion different types of
how to leave your gender identity or in your sexuality.
(20:24):
And a lot of people they realize really early on
that they do not feel the way that this sex
that was assigned to im a birth makes should be
right so or what people think that it should be.
And a lot of the students today, a lot of
(20:44):
the teenagers, they are really feeling a little more comfortable
with understanding that and kind of like trying to explore that,
and what you see is a lot of trans people,
so people who at one point say, well a boy
and a girl or vice versa. But you also see
a lot of kids that grow up and are still exploring.
(21:05):
So you would see like teenagers that's having teen eighteen
that are like, well, I'm not sure if I want
to have one of the two genders at all, And well,
that has a lot of implications. Sometimes housewives with puberty
blockers and medicines and actually healthcare that helps them assign
(21:29):
affirm the gender that they identify with. And sometimes it's
just a more like a society issue on how they
dress or how they present themselves and things like that.
So yes, absolutely there's teenagers and kids that are kind
of like identifying with multiple different gender identities, and each
(21:52):
one of them has one way of affirming that, either
medically or non medically, depending on what also left their
parents and their family is para comfortable with them.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
You know, I do think that we as a culture
need to stay out of these families. I think that
government should stay out. I think this is a question
for doctors and their patients, for families and their patients.
I know the fear of many parents and that is
the fear of the small percentage that are experiencing social contagion,
(22:26):
which you know we can't lie. That is a piece
of it as well, But I think it's about individual
families more than having governments be involved. So I just
want to say thank you for continuing to follow this
story Wellington. It will be fascinating to see you know,
President elect Donald Trump loves to say things and then
(22:50):
not do them, so it will be very interesting to
see how this all pans out after he is inaugurated.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Thanks so much for being with us.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Yeah, no, thank you. Thank you so much for having us,
and please stay tuned and read what we're posting on
talkbe dot org and we're definitely going to be following
up that story and many other different stories on education.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Thank you and thank you for listening to The Doctor
Wendy Walls Show. This brings the show to a close.
If you'd like to follow me on social media, you
may The handle is at doctor Wendy Walsh. But I'm
always here for you every Sunday on KFI. You've been
listening to The Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI Am
six forty Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You've been
(23:32):
listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh. You can always hear us
live on KFI Am six forty from seven to nine
pm on Sunday and anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio
app
This is Doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to KFI
AM six forty the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on demand
on the iHeartRadio App.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Wall Show on k I AM six forty Live everywhere
on the iHeartRadio App. Okay, I gotta address it because
every late late night comic has talked about it. There
are articles where psychologists are weighing in about it. People
are fan girling over this. Luigi Maggione, Kayla, why are
(00:32):
girls falling in love with an assassin?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Did you see him with his shirt off?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Nope?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Did you hear about his height? Did you see those
eyebrow policy? I heard six to two? What yes, ma'am.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
An Ivy League Education sixty two? Oh my goodness. Well,
I thought, since the world is doing it, that we
would try to do we would play. Look, I'm a
psychology professor, and I asked my students to do this
in a DIMS all the time. Let's play armchair psychologist
for Luigi MAGGIONI. Okay, First of all, he can't claim
(01:09):
he's insane, So that you understand that the legal definition
of insane is very different than our general definition of
having a mental disorder. Right, the legal definition of insane
means that they're incompetent to stand trial.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
It means that their mental illness involves such impairments of
their thinking that they can't even understand the trial process
and they can't assist in their own defense.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
I don't think that's him, right, I mean, no, he's
pretty smart. Yeah, he's pretty smart.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
So the thinking, according to the Internet and the psychologists
that are weighing in in the news stories, is that
he has one of three personality disorders. So I thought
we would go through the various personality disorders. I would
look up the DSM criteria, that's the diagnostic and statistic
and manual of mental disord and we would together, if
(02:02):
you're listening, try to diagnose Luigi Maggioni, because everybody else
in America is all right, the big one. Let's start
off with narcissistic personality disorder. I know half the women
on the Internet think that they are dating a man
with a narcissistic personality disorder, but just because somebody's low
in empathy, and that may just mean ladies, he's a
(02:26):
typical heterosexual male. No, there's research on this you guys
that men actually have less empathy, And I think, if
I'm thinking about it, you know, from an evolutionary standpoint,
I would say it's because back in our hunter gatherer past,
these hunters had to stare into the eyes of a
living animal before they killed it right between the eyes
(02:49):
with a spear, and they had no time for empathy
at that moment. So there's a little spillover there, all right.
But the actual criteria for a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder,
which is estimated more men than women have it, but
it's still in like two maybe three percent of the population. Okay, ladies,
I hear. That's still three out of one hundred guys
(03:10):
that you date. And like everything, it's a scale. But
what it is is a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, either
in a belief system like they just believe they're better
than everybody else, or behavior they need admiration. Stop thinking
about our president intellecture saying they have a lack of empathy.
(03:32):
And here's the key for a true narcissistic personality disorder.
All this pattern has to begin early, but not in childhood,
usually early adulthood. And I should tell you this narcissists
usually give birth to narcissists, not because it's genetic, but
they learn it. It's modeled for them, and it may
have a genetic piece. I mean, every mental thing is
partly biology and partly what's going on in our environment.
(03:57):
So some of the core symptoms are a grandiose sense
of self importance. Okay, Luigi does he think? Does he
exaggerate his achievements or his talents? Does he expect to
be recognized as a superior. Let's think about this for
a minute.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I don't know. I mean, I think he does have talents.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
He got good grades, he was a high achiever, valedictorian,
member of this special computer group at Penn.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
At Penn, he's at an IVY league. I know he's
actually doing it right.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Also a symptom might be preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, brilliance, power, beauty,
belief that they are special or unique. I have not
heard any of the friends that have weighed in about
Luigi say that he thought he was special or unique
(04:48):
unless he kept it all inside. So another one might
be this need for excessive admiration. Again, I don't really
think Luigi has this need then this sense of entitlement.
Perhaps I just not hearing it. Lack of empathy, oh yeah,
(05:08):
unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs
of others. If you are able to murder somebody, I
don't think you have strong empathy. Right then arrogant, haughty,
or just have attitudes where you think you're just cool.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Again. I just don't see that this is our Luigi.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
If I were a psychologist, I would not give him
this diagnosis.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Okay, let's move to another one.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Some psychologists in the media are saying that he may
have borderline personality disorder. Okay, so I definitely don't think
this is him. So it's defined as a pervasive pattern
of an instability in interpersonal relationships marked impulsivity. I don't
(05:59):
think he was impulsive here. Think you planned this and
it begins in early adulthood. Okay, but you have to
have five or more of the following symptoms. Frantic efforts
to avoid real or imagined abandonment.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
That's not our Luigi. He abandoned everybody else, he went
to Hawaii and lost touch.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
That's not like how a borderline I mean, yeah, a
borderline would be hit. Let's see a pattern of unstable
and intense interpersonal relationships. No, he didn't really have a
lot of close interpersonal relationships, not like you know, like
people that are borderline are like drama. Queens create drama.
(06:37):
There's fights and conflicts and then rushing to get back together.
The highs the lows. No, an identity disturbance. Maybe persistently
unstable self image or sense of self. Yes, especially once
he got into a lot of pain. Oh but wait,
recurrent suicidal behavior. Uh, chronic feelings of emptiness, maybe inappropriate
(07:01):
or intense anger or difficulty controlling anger. We don't have
never heard any reports that he had an angry outbursts
in the past. Back to you, seemed pretty calm when
he committed that murder. I just don't know. I'm not
good and give him borderline. If I'm going to be
an armchair, I'm not going to do it. So let's
(07:21):
go to the one that I think many of the
psychologists have weighed in is the diagnosis that Luigi might
have if somebody were actually to interview him and figure
it out. It's called the anti social personality disorder. Let's
talk about the details when we come back. You're listening
to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty.
We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI
AM six forty, Live everywhere on.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
The iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Well, I am joining the chorus of lay people psychoanalyzing
Luigi MAGGIONI, the would be assassin, the alleged, the arrested.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
For Well, actually, has he been arrested, has he back
in New York? Has he extracited already? I don't know
where he is?
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Trying to figure out what personality disorder he might have.
So let's be armchair psychologists, shall we. Remember I'm not
a therapist, I'm a psychology professor. I do teach about
each of these disorders and what qualifies as a diagnosis.
So the one I think most applies to him is
(08:35):
anti social personality disorder. But there's a big butt and
it's coming off coming in a second. It's a pervasive
pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others.
Here's the key occurring since the age of fifteen years. Okay,
that might be it, But let's talk about you have
(08:57):
to have three or more of the following traits. Number one,
failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors,
as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Well, that's not him.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
We have he had no police record, no problems, no,
repeatedly that wasn't happening. Deceitfulness as indicated by repeated lying. Oh,
use of aliases, Oh oh yeah, he was using another id,
conning others for personal profit or pleasure.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Okay, so there's one. He's got to get three.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Number three impulsivity or failure to plan ahead.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
That is not him. He planned.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
If he did commit that murder, he planned it very well.
Number four irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical
fights or assaults. Nope, not him, So only have one
so far. We've got to have three. Number five, reckless
disregard for the safe of self or others. Yeah, I
(10:02):
think if you pull the trigger on somebody, that would
be reckless disregard for their safety.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
So we got two.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Next, consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain
consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations. We don't know
the answer about that. We know his work has been spotty,
we don't know about it. We haven't heard that he
ripped people off or didn't pay rent or any of
that stuff. So I'm not going to give that one
to him, but I will give him this next one.
(10:30):
Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent or rationalizing
having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Ding Ding ding Ing.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I think we might have the armchair diagnosis. A lack
of remorse, reckless disregard for the safety of others, and
failure to conform to social norms. Oh deceitfulness. No, anyway,
that would be criteria for anti social personality disorder.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
But guess what.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
You can't actually be given this diagnosis unless under the
age of fifteen you had something that's called a conduct disorder. So,
in other words, in order to have this personality disorder,
it had to have started in school when there were
all kinds of problems with teachers or what have you,
and we don't have any evidence of this. So it
(11:25):
made me start to think maybe this is all coming
about because of his pain, his physical pain after his
back surgery. It made me wonder, can chronic pain create
a mental health disorder? Well, it's a two way street,
of course, is that chronic pain can impact our mental health,
(11:46):
just as mental health can cause chronic pain.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Right, it is.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Some of the things that chronic pain is linked to
is depression, anxiety disorders, post traumatic stress disorder, if the
pain happened from something that was a danger thing. Substance
use disorders. We don't know about his substance use sleep disorders,
insomnia or poor quality sleep. We don't know about this,
(12:12):
cognitive impairment, brain fog again, especially if he's taking opioids.
This could be a problem. But you got to remember,
pain and mental health is by we call it bi directional, right,
So chronic pain can cause mental health problems. Mental health
problems can cause chronic pain. So it's going to take
(12:35):
some time. I'm sure his lawyers are going to argue
that he had some degree of mental illness. Now, if
I were a lawyer, now I'm going to stop being
armchair Psychologies is not going to be armchair lawyer. I
didn't go to law school. I have no idea what
I'm saying right now. But here's the case I present,
and again I'm defending him. So that's my job as
(12:58):
a lawyer. It doesn't mean I believe what I'm saying.
Does I mean I think he's a good guy? Okay,
he's an assassin, we think. I mean, everybody is guilty
until innocent, until proven guilty. But boy, there's a lot
of footage of this one. Anyway, I would say, uh,
if I was building a case that he if it's
true that he had tried to get help for his
(13:21):
chronic pain, that the back surgery didn't work, he needed
a revision surgery, his health care wouldn't cover it.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Maybe they'll find out he was with United health Care.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
It's he spent many months attempting to get out of
the pain, and so he acted out in a way
to hurt the person that was hurting him. He believed
in his fantasies it was the CEO of the company.
And so the trial, which will likely be in the
news for a very long time, might be an indictment
of health insurance companies. And you know, we're seeing this
(13:57):
voice of people rise up complaining online about this. I
don't know, Maybe there's so much going on in our
country and our culture right now, and trying to make
sense of right and wrong and good and bad and
health and unhealth is so difficult. When we come back,
(14:18):
I have a guest who's a reporter who's been covering
sort of the fallout from some of the pledges made
by President elect Donald Trump when it comes to trans kids,
and he has a few thoughts on how people are
feeling in this particular climate. You're listening to the Doctor
Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. We're live
(14:39):
everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
Well, the map is the Doctor.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Wendy Wall Show on KFI AM six forty, Live everywhere
on the iHeartRadio app. Well, many of you know that
I am a professor of health psychology, and and as
part of it, I do a lecture on gender, not
only gender identity, but also gender role and also sexual orientation,
(15:10):
three distinct concepts. By the way, it is something that
is in the news a lot lately because President elect
Donald Trump has previously pledged to bar transgender athletes from
competing in women's and girls' sports and to band gender
affirming care for minors, and this week the Supreme Court
is considering it. I would like to welcome a reporter
(15:33):
who has been following this story closely, Wellington.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Sarah, So I know i'd mess it up.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Wellington, say your full name beautifully. Thank you for having me,
and you are a writer for Chalkbeat, amongst other places,
and talk to me a little bit about what's happening
with families and those in the transgender can unity as
(16:00):
we get closer to inauguration.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Berb, thank you so much for having me. Doctor Wendy Well.
Right after the election, we started talking to families and
reaching out to students and their families and their communities
to understand how they were feeling after the election. So
what we heard is that a lot of groups, a
lot of teenagers, especially students, they're really concerned regarding what
(16:28):
President elect Donald Trump has played during the campaign. But
we have also seen a lot of students and families
that are really looking for solutions and looking to good
community and looking for ways to kind of like resist
any type of change or any type of policies that
may come into place right after inauguration. So I would
say that what we're seeing is a mix of a
(16:50):
little bit of fear, a little bit of disillusion, but
also a lot of people trying to build community and
kind of like create a space that is safe, even
though they don't feel as safe in the political environment
right now.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
You know, I have this theory that the older politicians
and so many of our politicians are much older, and
the younger generation in America are two distinct cultures. You know,
last night, I was actually at a party and I
was talking to two public school teachers and they were
talking about how, you know, just you know, a decade ago,
(17:28):
you didn't see kids affirming their gender identity, being non
binary at the elementary school level, talking comfortably about same
sex relationships. It's almost like they are free, and yet
there is this older generation that seems to be trying
to put constraints. As an observer of culture, what do
(17:51):
you think of that?
Speaker 4 (17:54):
I think you're absolutely right. I've been or cancer journalists
for twelve years now, and I've covered this issue back
in Brazil and now here in the US, and I
see exactly what she meant. So ten years, twelve years ago,
when I started reporting, I would go to a school,
I would try and talk to students and this would
not be a topic that was so vibrant within the community.
(18:17):
But as years went by, now you can see pretty
much every school, you will see students that are more
comfortable with opening up about who they are. And in
this I just wanted to make sure that I'm being
clear that what used to happen before is not that
those people, those students didn't exist. It's just that they
didn't feel as comfortable coming out and talking about it
(18:39):
until later on. And what we've been saying is that
families in the community is a little more welcoming, and
so students are also feeling more open to talk about
who they are, how they feel, and how they want
to live their lives. But definitely that has caused also
some kind of like backlash and a lot of resistance
from people who are not really used to it or
(19:02):
don't quite understand what's happening.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
And I just want to clarify for some of our
listeners who might not be fully informed about trans people,
that there is a population of intersex and now I'm
using a biological term intersex humans that has existed since
the beginning of time.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
People born with features of both sexes.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
It is possible to be born with a penis and
overstucked inside. It is possible to be born with evolva
and undescended testes, and at puberty then we get secondary
sex characteristics that may tell a very different story. And
so I think it is important that we allow people
(19:46):
to be as free as they want to be along
their journey. But there are many people, and I'm sure
you've interviewed them, who are afraid of this.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Can you talk about that?
Speaker 4 (20:01):
Yes, Well, what we see now is just there is
a source of mind that used to say that sexuality,
engender identity is as diverse as the number of people
that we have in the world. I think we're eight
billion now, so there's like eight billion different types of
how to leave your gender identity or in your sexuality.
(20:24):
And a lot of people they realize really early on
that they do not feel the way that this sex
that was assigned to im a birth makes should be
right so or what people think that it should be.
And a lot of the students today, a lot of
(20:44):
the teenagers, they are really feeling a little more comfortable
with understanding that and kind of like trying to explore that,
and what you see is a lot of trans people,
so people who at one point say, well a boy
and a girl or vice versa. But you also see
a lot of kids that grow up and are still exploring.
(21:05):
So you would see like teenagers that's having teen eighteen
that are like, well, I'm not sure if I want
to have one of the two genders at all, And well,
that has a lot of implications. Sometimes housewives with puberty
blockers and medicines and actually healthcare that helps them assign
(21:29):
affirm the gender that they identify with. And sometimes it's
just a more like a society issue on how they
dress or how they present themselves and things like that.
So yes, absolutely there's teenagers and kids that are kind
of like identifying with multiple different gender identities, and each
(21:52):
one of them has one way of affirming that, either
medically or non medically, depending on what also left their
parents and their family is para comfortable with them.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
You know, I do think that we as a culture
need to stay out of these families. I think that
government should stay out. I think this is a question
for doctors and their patients, for families and their patients.
I know the fear of many parents and that is
the fear of the small percentage that are experiencing social contagion,
(22:26):
which you know we can't lie. That is a piece
of it as well, But I think it's about individual
families more than having governments be involved. So I just
want to say thank you for continuing to follow this
story Wellington. It will be fascinating to see you know,
President elect Donald Trump loves to say things and then
(22:50):
not do them, so it will be very interesting to
see how this all pans out after he is inaugurated.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Thanks so much for being with us.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
Yeah, no, thank you. Thank you so much for having us,
and please stay tuned and read what we're posting on
talkbe dot org and we're definitely going to be following
up that story and many other different stories on education.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Thank you and thank you for listening to The Doctor
Wendy Walls Show. This brings the show to a close.
If you'd like to follow me on social media, you
may The handle is at doctor Wendy Walsh. But I'm
always here for you every Sunday on KFI. You've been
listening to The Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI Am
six forty Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You've been
(23:32):
listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh. You can always hear us
live on KFI Am six forty from seven to nine
pm on Sunday and anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio
app
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