Dr. Wendy is teaching us about the science behind romantic chemistry, can chatbots satisfy our need for belonging, and what does new relationship energy mean? It's all on KFIAM-640!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to k
I AM six forty, the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on
demand on the iHeartRadio app KFI AM six forty. You
have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor
Wendy Walsh Show. If you're new to the show. I
have a PhD in clinical psychology. I'm a psychology professor
at California State University, Channel Islands Go Dolphins, and I'm
(00:23):
obsessed with the science of love. I've written three books
on relationships, wrote a dissertation on attachment theory. Isn't it
crazy that attachment theory is now like the new astrological sign?
Right producer Kayla, do you know that when you meet people,
they go do you know your attachment style? That does happen?
Do you know what your attachment style is? I don't
(00:45):
want to say, oh oh oh, there we go, Brigida,
do you know what your attachment style is? I think
it's all the bad ones like ash is disorganized, a void.
I don't know. Are you reading my journal, Brigida? I
think it literally is though, like sometimes I read those
quizzes and I'm like, but I'm all of the above
crazy across the board, you could be just sounds very disorganized.
Uh And Raoul, do you know what your attachment style is?
(01:05):
I have no idea. Okay, I think it's secure. I
can just tell by looking at you. Doesn't he look
like a kind of guy who has a secure attachment style?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I mean, yeah, Raoul's shares some stories with me. He
definitely knows what he deserves and walks away when he
when he feels less then, but he stays in it too,
So I don't know what that means.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Oh, can you give and receive care comfortably?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I am.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I'm very secure, right, but you're not attracted to people
who are drama queens or well? Oh I saw yeahs
on that one. I saw I was based on that one. Yeah, okay,
Well we all have our cross to bear. Oh good theme.
It's Easter. Happy Easter. So when my kids were little,
we celebrate. I was raised Catholic, so you know, we
(01:46):
did the church mass, and we did the Easter egg hunt,
and we did the chocolates. And so this morning they
call me kids. They're twenty one and twenty six, about
to turn twenty two and twenty seven, and they go, Mom,
what do we do doing for Easter? They call me
and I say, I'm at Plate's, call me back later.
(02:06):
And then I said, why don't you go get me
breakfast because I'm prepping my show and reading some studies here.
So they go to Noah's Bagels and they brought me
a bagel with eggs in it and a coffee egg
and cheese or something. That was my Easter. You know,
that's lovely. I did a lot of years of Easter
egg hunts, the chocolates, the little fluffy dresses and all
that stuff. It is, it is what it is when
(02:28):
they hit a certain age. And my sweet Julio is
in Florida with his mom, sweet mom, getting her packed
up to help her move back to New York for
the summer. So you know, we'll have to do celebrate
our new beginnings. But what I do like about the
holiday of Easter and this season, I like the fact
my birthday's coming up in ten days. That's really what
I like. But it always feels like new beginnings. I
(02:50):
loved garden, so I love things sprouting and growing, and
you know, it's a time of new beginnings. So I'm
optimistic about it. I want to talk a lot little
bit about romantic chemistry. People use the term, they throw
it around all the time, like we didn't have chemistry,
we didn't really have chemistry. And I know that sometimes
(03:10):
when people use the term, they're talking about sexual chemistry,
not necessarily romantic chemistry, right, Believe it or not, there's
very little research on what romantic chemistry is until now
a new study out of York University in Toronto by
Alexandra Leipman and her colleagues. They basically said, well, instead
(03:34):
of us looking from the outside to see if people
had romantic chemistry, let's just do a survey and let's
ask people what is to them defines romantic chemistry. So
they came up with nine things. I'm going to start
at the bottom. Okay, the things that are least important.
You're going to be pretty surprised. Only six percent of
(03:56):
respondents said that physiologic having a physiological response around somebody
that includes butterflies in the stomach, nervousness, beating, heart exciting
around them, this is not romantic chemistry. Apparently, only six
percent of the people included that in their answers, but
(04:16):
twenty four percent of the people included intense fixation feelings
of intense focus with each other. We want to be
with each other all the time. Now, this is a danger.
By the way, if both people have an anxious attachment style,
then they become enmeshed and nobody can remember whose problem
is who's And yeah, you guys use the word codependent,
(04:39):
but that's not a real term. But anyway, it's enmeshed
and yeah, not good. But if you know, it feels
romantic to be fixated on somebody. Surprisingly, only twenty eight
percent of the people who did the survey said sexual
attraction was part of romantic chemistry. So if the couple
want to have the same wants and desig when it
(05:00):
comes to intimacy, they call that sexual attraction. Now Here,
Now we're moving up on what's more important. To people
who participated in the study, thirty one percent called romantic
chemistry an unexplainable spark. Well, that explains it. That explains it.
An unexplainable spark. They called it magical and unexplainable. It
(05:26):
means that the other person has the same vibrations. I
don't know how do researchers study, how do we quantify that?
How can you figure it out? Okay? Moving up the scale,
thirty six percent were of sound mind when they answered
this question, what does romantic chemistry mean to you? Thirty
six percent said similarity feeling like my partner. We think alike,
(05:50):
we act to light, we share a lot of common interests.
I've actually said this to my husband, Julio, I go,
you know, the one thing of all the relationships I've
had in my life. He hates it when I say this. Ah,
all of them short ones, the long ones, the tall ones. No,
there were many relationships I've had in my life. He's
the one that I share the most values with. Our
(06:11):
values are emphasis on what's important, like our kids come first.
Is the same, right? All right? Moving on up from similarity,
forty percent of the people say that romantic chemistry. What
makes up a romantic cheistry is compatibility, feelings of togetherness.
It means they match each other really well. So compatibility,
(06:34):
though and similarity are pretty similar, right. But also compatibility
is more like we just get along, right, We're not
sniping at each other. It's just like we kind of
gel right. But I love what happens when we start
to really move up the scale. Here the last three things.
I think the researchers from York University are really onto something. Comfort.
(06:57):
Forty one percent of people said romantic chemistry feels like comfort,
feeling at ease, getting to be yourself, finding it really
easy to communicate, not feeling negative, not being afraid to
share the most intimate parts of yourself, just being comfortable.
You know, I've always said this that when I've been
(07:18):
in relationships that were friggin' roller coasters, a highs and
lows and ups and downs and pain and exhilaration and
everything in between, when you actually finally have a secure attachment,
it just feels like peace. It feels calm, it feels safe,
all right. The last two forty eight percent of the
(07:39):
people said mutuality. I love this. Feelings of mutuality included
reciprocity and responsiveness. Okay, that means if you text somebody,
they text you back, you do something nice for them,
they do something nice for you. That's called reciprocity. That
is romantic chemistry. But the number one thing, ding ding
(08:00):
ding ding ding ning go the bell the number one
definition of romantic chemistry that people put on their survey,
Sixty four percent of the people said it is positive interaction.
It included positive feelings, a sense of connection, just enjoying
each other and feeling like you have a positive emotional
(08:23):
connection with them, So no more mystery. That's what romantic
chemistry is. Having a positive experience, being having reciprocity back
and forth, caring for each other, feeling safe and comfortable.
That's what it's about. Now. Another aspect, a very basic
(08:44):
human need besides things like you know, food, shelter, warmth.
Also on that list is something called belonging. We all
need to feel that we belong. Lately, some people who
are living in kind of isolation, living alone, are using
chat bots chatbots, yeah, chat chept to try to have
(09:09):
a sense of belonging. So when we come back, I
want to talk about this. Do you think it's possible?
I don't know. I'll explain what a sense of belonging
is and you can decide for yourself. You're listening to
the Doctor Wendy Walls Show and KFI AM six forty
were live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Ok I Am six forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh
with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show. Kayla,
do you use chat cheapt for stuff?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
I do?
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I know me too? Okay, okay, yeah yeah yeah. Do
you have like a relationship? Have you gotten chatty? No?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I only do it on my privacy browser and I
won't give any of my information. But yeah, I asked.
I ask personal questions and see what they say. They
really do give good advice.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
They do well.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Again, they're screening through every blog that I've ever written. Yeah,
I giving advice based on all the stuff that many
people in media who are reporting on relationships have already. Yeah,
judgment free, you know, free exactly. But I kind of
it's weird that they get chatty, I know, ask follow
up questions like yeah, you just want them to just
(10:15):
give you the information because you're not supposed to use
it like a Google search, which I'll say, I'll say,
get me the name of the study done out of
UC Davis blah blah blah, and they'll go, oh, yes,
that was a delightful study by doctor dah da DAA.
I'm like, okay, don't get so chatty with me. Were
friends and would you like me to summarize it for you,
and no just needed the name. Okay, I know well.
(10:38):
Plenty of people confide in their phones to the robots,
and it does feel sometimes that these robots do get us,
They remember our preferences. They often give us comforting replies.
By the way, I've actually asked them for as a joke,
relationship advice for my husband and I while he's they
(11:00):
are watching and he's like, you're not really asking the
bro I'm like, yes, I want to know how we
get through this confract. I'll say I'm feeling a little
bored with my husband, what should we do for excitement?
And He'll be like, well, I can comment on a
few things, but not much, and I should leave that
up to the two of you. Right, It's like having
a third person, like sitting there with you. Robots don't
(11:20):
argue with you. It does feel like friendship, but to
many people it feels even deeper. So here's a question.
Can a relationship with artificial intelligence actually fulfill this very
basic human need to belong? Now, first, let's talk about
what belonging is. We know we have a hierarchy of needs.
(11:45):
We need food, water, air, air. Let's start with the air. Air.
Did you know you can live without air for what
about thirty seconds? You can live without water for about
three days. You can live without food for thirty days,
just letting it. There's how the hierarchy goes. We also
need shelter, we need warmth, and then we need at
(12:06):
a certain point, belonging. It's a primal human drive. When
we do not feel connected to others, when we feel
left out, when we feel unloved, it hits our brain
like a physical pain. It can affect our physical health,
our mental well being, and even shorten our lifespan. I
(12:29):
don't have to tell you, I've said it enough on
this show. Loneliness has been shown to be as dangerous
as smoking fifteen cigarettes a day. Right, we are social creatures.
We are meant to be in a group. Our worst fear,
let's go back to our ancient past when we were
hunters and gatherers, would be to be exiled from the tribe,
(12:50):
left alone in the wilderness to survive or not. Right, So,
some people say that bots can actually replace or give
at least some feeling of a sense of belonging. Now,
this whole idea of sense of belonging was created by
(13:10):
psychologists Baumeister and Leery, and they said there are two
really big conditions that need to be met in order
for someone to have a fulfilled sense of belonging. So
now I want you to think about the robot when
you think about these two conditions. One is frequent positive interactions. Well, yeah, chat, shept,
We'll do that, frequent positive interactions. But wait. Number two,
(13:36):
the relationships must be marked by stability and mutual emotional concern.
You know, AI is intelligence, it's not emotional, right, it'll
give you the illusion right that it's always available, it's
not going to criticize you. It can feel really positive,
(13:58):
but it really falls when it comes to stability and
mutual emotional concern. Because real belonging, a real sense of belonging,
involves mutual care. It means that somebody really values you
and if you reached out, they would be there for you. Now,
there is some research that we don't have many people
(14:20):
in our circle who could actually fulfill that. But if
you have at least two people in your life that
you know you could call at three in the morning
and say hey, I need your help, or you could
call any day and say, hey, I need a ride
to the airport. Right, No one wants to do that
for anybody. But if someone will do that in your life,
then you know that you have stability and mutual concern.
(14:45):
So the question is is it dangerous? Is it wrong?
Is it harmful to be chatting away with the chatbot?
I'm telling you we all kind of do it a
little bit, and for some people it really is a lifeline.
Can ease anxiety, it can offer comfort, it can even
soothe people. But you got to remember, if you're thirsty,
(15:10):
you don't want to drink too much salt water, right,
you want to drink fresh water. So let's talk about
if you are addicted to the robot. May not even
be addicted, but if your main emotional connection is to
a robot. I never thought we'd be saying this, right.
I heard years ago that, remember, China had the one
child rule for years in the seventies or eighties. Now
(15:32):
they're backtracking because a population is going down and girls
aren't having babies. But sadly, I'm sorry to say, people
were terminating female fetuses at a much higher rate, so
they ended up with an oversupply of males. When you
have an oversupply of males, in a culture, violence goes up.
Didn't you see those cans on the beach and Barbie?
They were fighting like crazy, right, And so China had
(15:56):
introduced cloud girlfriends and there were operating stems that had
seven hundred different boyfriends and they would learn their ways
and whatever. I never thought would be this place here
in America, but it's starting. So here's what I want
you to do. Instead of saying hello to the robot,
text a friend and simply say hey, I'm just thinking
(16:17):
about you, just thinking about you, get a response from
a real human. Join a group, any group, especially a
group that meets regularly. I don't care if it's a
fitness class, a garden club, a book club, a wine
tasting group. I like that one. I used to go
to a cooking class all the time. It was like
recreational cooking, and I met so many people there. It
was really fun. And practice being just a little bit
(16:39):
more open in all your human conversations. Let people see
more of you. Be a little vulnerable, Be a little honest,
because remember, real intimacy isn't perfect. It is reciprocal, but
it's human, right, It's messy, it involves risk. Be vulnerable.
(16:59):
You can do this all right? When we come back.
I was asked this week by a reporter to describe
new relationship energy and whether it's good or bad. Look,
if you're in a new relationship, I do not want
to burst your bubble, but you're gonna want to listen
to this when we come back. You're listening to Dodor
Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. We live
(17:19):
everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
K I Am six forty. You have doctor Wendy Walsh
with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Waalsh Show. I'd
like to welcome my TikTok audience. Hello, TikTok. How are you?
If you guys want to come in the studio and
you're a KFI listener, just log onto TikTok and look
up at doctor Wendy Walsh. And the reason why I
do these live streams is because after this segment, I'm
(17:49):
going to be taking your calls. Now. What I've learned
TikTok listeners is that when I type in the phone
number onto TikTok, they either they disappear the COMMENTO. They
don't disappear me, but they disappear the comment. So I'm
gonna say it out loud a few times, and you
guys might want to write it down. Maybe one of
you could put it in the comments and see what happens.
I don't know the numbers. One eight hundred and five
(18:10):
two zero one five three four. After the segment, that's
one eight hundred five two zero one KFI and I'll
be answering your relationship questions. Okay, So this week I
was asked by a reporter to define new relationship energy. Well,
it's a lot like the honeymoon phase. I call new
(18:32):
relationship energy that delicious beginning of a relationship. It's a
slang term for something that psychologist Dorothy Toff once identified
back in the seventies. She identified something called limerence. Limmerence
is an emotional state that involves very intense feelings where
(18:55):
you feel really infatuated with somebody. You can't get enough
of them, to be with them all the time. You
have a physiological response when you're with them or you're
thinking about them. It could be in your stomach, the butterflies,
et cetera. It's also filled with healthy delusions. There's tons
of research on this. At the very beginning of a relationship,
(19:19):
love is a drug, delicious drug. Okay. It is a
cocktail of neuro hormones that feels so good. It is
the best drug we have. If you are newly in love,
I would never want to burst your bubble. However, when
you're on that cocktail, you're not thinking too clearly and
you can't, which is one of the reasons I always
say you've got to introduce a perspective mate to your
(19:42):
tribe pretty quickly because they'll weigh in with the truth
at some point. Right, So, I know. The question that
comes up a lot is how long does this drug last?
How long does this new relationship energy last? And the
answer is it It depends. It depends on frequency of
(20:03):
contact and the kind of contact. So, if you're somebody
who falls in love very quickly and you meet somebody
new and you have sex very quickly, and you're talking
or texting every single day, okay, that is going to
crash and burn pretty quickly. Now, if you're somebody who's
kind of a slow burn when it comes to love,
(20:25):
you can actually have this state of Limerens last a
lot longer. Now, people who have online only relationships, those
digital relationships, we don't call those parasocial relationships. What will
we call those? We should make up a name for those.
Kayla is like, so, a parasocial relationship is one that
you have with a celebrity or a social media person
(20:46):
where it's not reciprocal. They don't really know who you are.
They're not really giving back, but you have these strong
feelings of attachment or love or attraction to them. That's
a para social relationship. But what if there's a person
on the other end of the keyboard and they're responding
to you, but the relationship is mostly about your mutual projections,
(21:07):
your project your fantasies of who each other really is. Right,
That's why it's really important you get in the real
world pretty quickly. But anyway, there's some people who have
I didn't know you can do this. On TikTok. They
put a cowboy hat and a mustache on me.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, I'm watching the live you have a must flash
and a cow I don't I don't know what that is.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Is that good?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
They're and that's nice? They like you, so I guess
that's a good sign.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Why don't you put a crown on me? And I
feel more like a queen a cowboy hat and mustache.
I like crowns. Anyway, going back to if you just
have an only online digital relationship with somebody, you probably
could stay in this state of limerens or honeymoon phase
for a very very long time. Right now, there are
(21:54):
some pros and cons to this honeymoon stage, the cocooning time.
The biggest pro is that it's a very natural, very
important step towards bonding, right to being able to eventually
make a full commitment. And there's all kinds of neuroscience
behind it. Right when two people meet and they're attracted
(22:14):
to each other, there is, as I said, these neuro
hormones that create this feeling of love. It's euphoric, it
feels wonderful, and this is a crucial feeling to bringing
people together. If they do eventually stay together for the
long time, it's a time when they make some decisions,
(22:35):
decisions to have sex, decisions to maybe be exclusive, decisions
to introduce somebody to their friends and relatives. That's a
pro right, and also it's important to remember it's not
all fake. It's not all delusions because during this important
limerence phase, you're doing a checklist of everything that's right
(22:56):
and wonderful about this person. So then when your brainy
it's used to the hormones and they don't work quite
as strongly and everything starts to flatten out a bit.
You can still remember all the good things. Now, the
cons are some of it is fake. Right. You might
misinterpret somebody's narcissism as self confidence. You might misinterpret somebody's
(23:21):
anxious attachment style as passion and real love right because
they're showing it's moving so quickly, right, And you might
learn later that they have a completely dependent personality. You
might meet somebody and you say, oh, I love that
they're so artsy and they don't care. They're not materialistic,
they don't care about our culture's need for money, and
(23:43):
then you find out later it's because they're dependent on
other people for money and they want yours. Right. So
another con is that when you're in this drug like
state new relationship energy, there is a risk that you
could move way too fast and make some major life
decisions that you shouldn't be making, like getting married too quickly,
(24:04):
buying a house, or God forbid someone becoming pregnant, right,
Because what happens is after it starts to die down,
you peel the layers of the onion or the person
and you start to see who they really are. So
it's an important first step in bonding. Don't get me wrong.
I would never want to burst somebody's bubble at the beginning.
(24:26):
If I had any advice, I would say, within a
few weeks, it's a good idea to get out of
your cocoon and introduce this person to other people in
your life and let them way in. I think it's
really important. There was one guy I had limerens with
for a few weeks, and so I invited him to
dinner at my house and I invited a girlfriend over
(24:48):
to have dinner, and after the evening she called me.
She goes, that dude never even acknowledged me or looked
at me all night. He was so rude, and I
didn't even notice because he was so busy, like la
la la, He's so great, and I was talking to
him right all right. When we come back, I am
going to begin taking your calls. If you would like
to give me a call, I am live right now
on KFI AM six forty, Los Angeles. We are in
(25:11):
iHeartRadio station. The number is I can't post it on TikTok,
so you gotta gotta memorize it. Say again, you commented twice.
Producer Kayla comment it twice and the phone number should
be there, which is one eight hundred five two zero
one KFI. That's one eight hundred five two zero one
five three four. I am a psychology professor, not a therapist.
(25:34):
I've written three books on relationships. I have a lot
of life wisdom and I would love to weigh in
on your love life. One eight hundred five two zero
one five three four. You're listening to the Doctor Wendy
Walsh Show on KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere
on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
KFI AM six forty, you have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you.
This is Doctor Wendy Walls Show. Now we are live
on Instagram. If you would like to come in the studio,
You're welcome to log onto Instagram and just search doctor
Wendy Walsh and you can come on in the studio
with us. The number is one eight hundred five to
zero one KFI. I am ready to take your calls. Okay,
(26:17):
producer Kayla. Who do we have? First? We have Greg
with a question. Greg. Hi, Greg, It's doctor Wendy.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
Hi, doctor Wendy. Can you hear me?
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I can? I can hear you perfectly?
Speaker 4 (26:27):
Okay, let me blow you away. First of all. First
of all, I'll let you know I have to ask
this fast because it pretty long. I haven't had sex
in seventeen years.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Oh, is it something you want?
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Choice?
Speaker 1 (26:38):
By choice?
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Okay, no, by choice? Okay, that's seventeen years. But it's
a long story. Now I'm ready. I'm in the grove.
And I went on to Facebook Dating and I got
on there and I met like about ninety four women
and they didn't pass my Yeah, they didn't pass my
test because you know why, we're all hookers. I gave them.
I gave them the test, and they were all hookers
(27:00):
except for four of them. And the four that weren't hookers,
they weren't my type. So you actually, wait.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
You went on Facebook dating, you connected with ninety four women,
and you believe that ninety of them were sex workers
and only four were actually regular women.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
Okay, because I do it, I do a certain test.
I can tell. Okay, I asked some certain questions.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Tell me one of your questions. I just want to
say to the Instagram audience, if you want to hear
both sides of the conversation, download the iHeartRadio app. Otherwise
I repeat the question in my answer. Okay, Greg, tell
me what question you ask women to determine if they're
a sex worker or as you call it, a regular woman.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
First of all, what do they do for a living?
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Oh? What do you do? Oh?
Speaker 4 (27:45):
They tell you from a hooker? Is a hairstylist or
a floor planner or some kind of job that it's
not really you know, that much of a it's kind
of a stretch.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I don't know. Hairdresser. That's not a stretch. That's out
of euphemism. There's a lot of hairdressers out there. Showplanner,
I think showplanner. Yeah, I think Cayle is a showplanner.
All right, Greg, So what's your question for me? Love?
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Okay? My question for you is, basically, I met, I
got offline, and then I after about a year, I said, land,
let me try online again. So I went back online,
still met the same hookers about to get off again
and met somebody and she said, oh man, I've been
looking for somebody that looks like you forever. Then I
gave it a test and she was actually a real person,
(28:30):
and so then and I was very attractive to her,
and vice versa. However, the thing is, I'm fifty eight
and she is twenty nine, and I wanted to know
if this would work. I know you'd probably have daddy
issues of what it was.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
The one woman you met is twenty nine years old.
You are fifty eight years old. You say you have
not had sex and seventeen years, and now your question
for me is will this work? Well, let's define work, Greg,
What do you want to happen? What do you want
to have happened here?
Speaker 4 (29:01):
Well, I actually i'd love to actually marry her if
we get along and stuff like that. But the thing is,
we haven't met yet.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Oh you haven't met in the real world yet.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
Yeah, we've been. Yeah, we've had a regular relationship over
the phone, talking and texting and stuff for like six months.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Six months you've been texting and not met.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Okay, does she live, because she lives. She lives a
little whiles away from me because I'm hoping she lives.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
All Right, here's what I want to tell you, Greg.
Here's I'm going to answer your question. There are no guarantees,
and we must in order to find long term love,
we must take risks, and that means we must meet.
It's not like I can tell you, well, does she
pass this and this and this? Okay, then that's somebody
you can have a long term. Really, we don't know.
(29:46):
You have to do it step by step by step,
say open, stay positive, and stay kind, and I think
you're going to be okay even if it turns out
to be a short term relationship. Thank you for calling, Greg,
and good luck to you. I hope it works out.
When I say workout, I mean I hope you meet
in the real world at least once. That's work out
(30:07):
for me. All right, Producer, Kyla, who do we have next?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
We have Tanya with a comment?
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Okay, Hi, Tanya with a comment? Is doctor Wendy.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
Hi, doctor Wendy. So listen. A couple of weeks ago,
I was listening to your show and you were talking
about a couple when they're walking along of whether or
not the man should welcome the outside. Oh oh, the
sidewalk yield her from the car.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Right.
Speaker 5 (30:34):
So I'm driving Alohong a couple of days later after
hearing your show, and I witnessed that exact thing. So
I'm in my complex where I live, and I'm pulling
down the little road and I witness see a couple
ahead of me, a young couple, and they're holding hands.
So as I approached them, he turns around and sees me.
He immediately drops her hand and goes to the outside
(30:56):
of her as if to shield her from my car.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I love this.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
They go up the ways and they turn to the right.
I followed them. I turned to the right and he
does it again. He dropped her hand and he went
to the outside of her as to shield her from
my car. So I pulled it beside him, and I said,
excuse me, I just witnessed what you did, and I'm
so impressed with that. I said, I'm proud of you,
you know. And I told a young girl, I said,
(31:21):
you've got a good boyfriend there to do that for you.
I'm doing Oh, Tanya wanted to tell you that I
was so impressed.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Thank you out of it and the great thing that
you did is you rewarded the behavior?
Speaker 5 (31:31):
Right?
Speaker 1 (31:31):
You complimented him on his behavior. Tanya's talking about that
famous sidewalk rule I talked about a couple of weeks ago,
where you know, historically men would walk on the outside
near the traffic to protect a woman in her long
dresses from you know, wild carriages and horses and mud
and you know, horse poop that would fly up. And now, really,
is there much a protection from an suv careening at you?
(31:54):
Probably not, but it's still a nice gesture because women
perceive protection from a man as a very attractive trait.
So Tanya witnessed this young man doing it at she
complimented him. Thank you so much, Thank you so much
for doing that, Tanya. All right, I'm also going to
(32:14):
be answering your social media questions. The number is one
eight hundred five to zero one five three four. If
you'd like to call one eight hundred five two zero
one five three four. Let me go to my DMS
and see what I got. Dear doctor Wendy, WHOA, this
is a heavy one. My ex got a restraining order
against me. It was many years ago. I was in
(32:36):
my twenties and couldn't properly handle my emotions. I grew
from this. I like to be honest about it. However,
when I tell a woman whom I'm dating about my past,
they pull away from me. I get ghosted, cut off, dumped.
What can I do? You know what, dude, you are
doing the right thing, and let me tell you this.
(32:56):
You probably I don't know if you saw me propose
on live radio to my now husband Julio, who has
experienced incarceration in his life. Right, ten percent of American
men will experience incarceration, and the vast majority are not
violent criminals. It's not violent crimes. Many of them are
(33:17):
experiencing from weed, which is now legal. Right, So I
think you're doing the right thing. I'm going to ask
that you probably meet them once without telling them the story,
just for coffee, and then develop an emotional connection with them,
not by text by phone calls, where you slowly start
(33:39):
to disclose intimate things and they disclose intimate things about
their life. And you know what I said to Julio
on our very first coffee date is, hey, listen, we
could sit here and brag about like how great we are,
but why don't we start by talking about how undateable
we are. So the stories came out very early, but
for most people, you wait till you build a little
(34:00):
bit of safety and then you say, hey, you know,
let's share a story about something we're ashamed about that
might have happened a long time ago. What you're trying
to do is find a partner with empathy and understanding
and don't be filled with shame continuously for this. I'm
(34:20):
so sorry this is happening to you, all right, Dear
doctor Wendy. Guy, Oh, how's our time? Do we have
to go to break? Oh? We have one minut quit
if you'd like to call in the numbers one eight
hundred and five two zero one five three four. Dear
doctor Wendy. A guy I'm dating is really bad at communicating, really?
Or is he just a dude? Sorry? I told him
I have an issue with this. He apologized and promised
(34:43):
to do better. He did better for half a day
and then got right back to his old ways. Is
this something I should be patient with or should I
walk away? I'm a huge issue with his lack of responses. Okay,
So the research out there shows that if you dismiss somebody,
give them the side treatment. That is the number one
thing that leads to divorce in marriage or breakups if
(35:06):
you're not married. And so, what's interesting is you said
he did better for half a day and then stop.
So he you know, how's the ability to write? It's
not like he's not neurotypical, or is missing some social cues,
or is just a big introvert. I think the conversation
next should be about why can you help me? And
not accusatory. You don't respond to me, and I don't
(35:27):
like that. That's an issue for me. That's not going
to make somebody open up. How about something like, you know,
when I say something and then you don't respond, I
feel kind of dismissed or abandoned. Can you help me
understand what your intention is? That's what you say to
start the conversation. You don't just get rid of them,
(35:49):
all right, Dear doctor Wendy, How do I break the
cycle of seeing my interest isn't treating me right? But
my logic disappears when he calls and then we hook.
I'm so sorry. I get on cloud nine. He reminds
me that he really doesn't like me. Should I go
no contact? Let me tell you you're hurting yourself. And for
(36:13):
some reason you want to give yourself this pain. I
suggest you get a good licensed therapist who can help
you understand the why behind it, because when you understand
why you're giving yourself this gift of pain, then you'll
be able to change. Yes, I would say, as your
old auntie, go no contact, but that's only going to
(36:34):
last until you meet another one who treats you that bad,
and then you're gonna want him again. Right, You're gonna
want that one too. You know, our model for love
is formed very early in life, partly genetic and partly
how we were treated by our primary caregivers in the
first three years of life. And so love isn't about
finding pleasure. Love isn't about finding happiness. Love is about
(36:57):
finding the familiar, the familiar, and so your therapist will
help you figure out what happened early in life to
make you want to give this kind of pain to yourself.
I'm sorry this is happening to you, all right. When
we come back, I'm going to continue to answer your
social media questions and take your calls. The numbers one
(37:18):
eight hundred five two zero one KFI. That's one eight
hundred five two zero one five three four. You are
listening to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM
six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You've
been listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh. You can always hear
us live on KFI AM six forty from seven to
(37:38):
nine pm on Sunday and anytime on demand on the
iHeartRadio app
This is Doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to k
I AM six forty, the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on
demand on the iHeartRadio app KFI AM six forty. You
have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor
Wendy Walsh Show. If you're new to the show. I
have a PhD in clinical psychology. I'm a psychology professor
at California State University, Channel Islands Go Dolphins, and I'm
(00:23):
obsessed with the science of love. I've written three books
on relationships, wrote a dissertation on attachment theory. Isn't it
crazy that attachment theory is now like the new astrological sign?
Right producer Kayla, do you know that when you meet people,
they go do you know your attachment style? That does happen?
Do you know what your attachment style is? I don't
(00:45):
want to say, oh oh oh, there we go, Brigida,
do you know what your attachment style is? I think
it's all the bad ones like ash is disorganized, a void.
I don't know. Are you reading my journal, Brigida? I
think it literally is though, like sometimes I read those
quizzes and I'm like, but I'm all of the above
crazy across the board, you could be just sounds very disorganized.
Uh And Raoul, do you know what your attachment style is?
(01:05):
I have no idea. Okay, I think it's secure. I
can just tell by looking at you. Doesn't he look
like a kind of guy who has a secure attachment style?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I mean, yeah, Raoul's shares some stories with me. He
definitely knows what he deserves and walks away when he
when he feels less then, but he stays in it too,
So I don't know what that means.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Oh, can you give and receive care comfortably?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I am.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I'm very secure, right, but you're not attracted to people
who are drama queens or well? Oh I saw yeahs
on that one. I saw I was based on that one. Yeah, okay,
Well we all have our cross to bear. Oh good theme.
It's Easter. Happy Easter. So when my kids were little,
we celebrate. I was raised Catholic, so you know, we
(01:46):
did the church mass, and we did the Easter egg hunt,
and we did the chocolates. And so this morning they
call me kids. They're twenty one and twenty six, about
to turn twenty two and twenty seven, and they go, Mom,
what do we do doing for Easter? They call me
and I say, I'm at Plate's, call me back later.
(02:06):
And then I said, why don't you go get me
breakfast because I'm prepping my show and reading some studies here.
So they go to Noah's Bagels and they brought me
a bagel with eggs in it and a coffee egg
and cheese or something. That was my Easter. You know,
that's lovely. I did a lot of years of Easter
egg hunts, the chocolates, the little fluffy dresses and all
that stuff. It is, it is what it is when
(02:28):
they hit a certain age. And my sweet Julio is
in Florida with his mom, sweet mom, getting her packed
up to help her move back to New York for
the summer. So you know, we'll have to do celebrate
our new beginnings. But what I do like about the
holiday of Easter and this season, I like the fact
my birthday's coming up in ten days. That's really what
I like. But it always feels like new beginnings. I
(02:50):
loved garden, so I love things sprouting and growing, and
you know, it's a time of new beginnings. So I'm
optimistic about it. I want to talk a lot little
bit about romantic chemistry. People use the term, they throw
it around all the time, like we didn't have chemistry,
we didn't really have chemistry. And I know that sometimes
(03:10):
when people use the term, they're talking about sexual chemistry,
not necessarily romantic chemistry, right, Believe it or not, there's
very little research on what romantic chemistry is until now
a new study out of York University in Toronto by
Alexandra Leipman and her colleagues. They basically said, well, instead
(03:34):
of us looking from the outside to see if people
had romantic chemistry, let's just do a survey and let's
ask people what is to them defines romantic chemistry. So
they came up with nine things. I'm going to start
at the bottom. Okay, the things that are least important.
You're going to be pretty surprised. Only six percent of
(03:56):
respondents said that physiologic having a physiological response around somebody
that includes butterflies in the stomach, nervousness, beating, heart exciting
around them, this is not romantic chemistry. Apparently, only six
percent of the people included that in their answers, but
(04:16):
twenty four percent of the people included intense fixation feelings
of intense focus with each other. We want to be
with each other all the time. Now, this is a danger.
By the way, if both people have an anxious attachment style,
then they become enmeshed and nobody can remember whose problem
is who's And yeah, you guys use the word codependent,
(04:39):
but that's not a real term. But anyway, it's enmeshed
and yeah, not good. But if you know, it feels
romantic to be fixated on somebody. Surprisingly, only twenty eight
percent of the people who did the survey said sexual
attraction was part of romantic chemistry. So if the couple
want to have the same wants and desig when it
(05:00):
comes to intimacy, they call that sexual attraction. Now Here,
Now we're moving up on what's more important. To people
who participated in the study, thirty one percent called romantic
chemistry an unexplainable spark. Well, that explains it. That explains it.
An unexplainable spark. They called it magical and unexplainable. It
(05:26):
means that the other person has the same vibrations. I
don't know how do researchers study, how do we quantify that?
How can you figure it out? Okay? Moving up the scale,
thirty six percent were of sound mind when they answered
this question, what does romantic chemistry mean to you? Thirty
six percent said similarity feeling like my partner. We think alike,
(05:50):
we act to light, we share a lot of common interests.
I've actually said this to my husband, Julio, I go,
you know, the one thing of all the relationships I've
had in my life. He hates it when I say this. Ah,
all of them short ones, the long ones, the tall ones. No,
there were many relationships I've had in my life. He's
the one that I share the most values with. Our
(06:11):
values are emphasis on what's important, like our kids come first.
Is the same, right? All right? Moving on up from similarity,
forty percent of the people say that romantic chemistry. What
makes up a romantic cheistry is compatibility, feelings of togetherness.
It means they match each other really well. So compatibility,
(06:34):
though and similarity are pretty similar, right. But also compatibility
is more like we just get along, right, We're not
sniping at each other. It's just like we kind of
gel right. But I love what happens when we start
to really move up the scale. Here the last three things.
I think the researchers from York University are really onto something. Comfort.
(06:57):
Forty one percent of people said romantic chemistry feels like comfort,
feeling at ease, getting to be yourself, finding it really
easy to communicate, not feeling negative, not being afraid to
share the most intimate parts of yourself, just being comfortable.
You know, I've always said this that when I've been
(07:18):
in relationships that were friggin' roller coasters, a highs and
lows and ups and downs and pain and exhilaration and
everything in between, when you actually finally have a secure attachment,
it just feels like peace. It feels calm, it feels safe,
all right. The last two forty eight percent of the
(07:39):
people said mutuality. I love this. Feelings of mutuality included
reciprocity and responsiveness. Okay, that means if you text somebody,
they text you back, you do something nice for them,
they do something nice for you. That's called reciprocity. That
is romantic chemistry. But the number one thing, ding ding
(08:00):
ding ding ding ning go the bell the number one
definition of romantic chemistry that people put on their survey,
Sixty four percent of the people said it is positive interaction.
It included positive feelings, a sense of connection, just enjoying
each other and feeling like you have a positive emotional
(08:23):
connection with them, So no more mystery. That's what romantic
chemistry is. Having a positive experience, being having reciprocity back
and forth, caring for each other, feeling safe and comfortable.
That's what it's about. Now. Another aspect, a very basic
(08:44):
human need besides things like you know, food, shelter, warmth.
Also on that list is something called belonging. We all
need to feel that we belong. Lately, some people who
are living in kind of isolation, living alone, are using
chat bots chatbots, yeah, chat chept to try to have
(09:09):
a sense of belonging. So when we come back, I
want to talk about this. Do you think it's possible?
I don't know. I'll explain what a sense of belonging
is and you can decide for yourself. You're listening to
the Doctor Wendy Walls Show and KFI AM six forty
were live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Ok I Am six forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh
with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show. Kayla,
do you use chat cheapt for stuff?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
I do?
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I know me too? Okay, okay, yeah yeah yeah. Do
you have like a relationship? Have you gotten chatty? No?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
I only do it on my privacy browser and I
won't give any of my information. But yeah, I asked.
I ask personal questions and see what they say. They
really do give good advice.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
They do well.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Again, they're screening through every blog that I've ever written. Yeah,
I giving advice based on all the stuff that many
people in media who are reporting on relationships have already. Yeah,
judgment free, you know, free exactly. But I kind of
it's weird that they get chatty, I know, ask follow
up questions like yeah, you just want them to just
(10:15):
give you the information because you're not supposed to use
it like a Google search, which I'll say, I'll say,
get me the name of the study done out of
UC Davis blah blah blah, and they'll go, oh, yes,
that was a delightful study by doctor dah da DAA.
I'm like, okay, don't get so chatty with me. Were
friends and would you like me to summarize it for you,
and no just needed the name. Okay, I know well.
(10:38):
Plenty of people confide in their phones to the robots,
and it does feel sometimes that these robots do get us,
They remember our preferences. They often give us comforting replies.
By the way, I've actually asked them for as a joke,
relationship advice for my husband and I while he's they
(11:00):
are watching and he's like, you're not really asking the
bro I'm like, yes, I want to know how we
get through this confract. I'll say I'm feeling a little
bored with my husband, what should we do for excitement?
And He'll be like, well, I can comment on a
few things, but not much, and I should leave that
up to the two of you. Right, It's like having
a third person, like sitting there with you. Robots don't
(11:20):
argue with you. It does feel like friendship, but to
many people it feels even deeper. So here's a question.
Can a relationship with artificial intelligence actually fulfill this very
basic human need to belong? Now, first, let's talk about
what belonging is. We know we have a hierarchy of needs.
(11:45):
We need food, water, air, air. Let's start with the air. Air.
Did you know you can live without air for what
about thirty seconds? You can live without water for about
three days. You can live without food for thirty days,
just letting it. There's how the hierarchy goes. We also
need shelter, we need warmth, and then we need at
(12:06):
a certain point, belonging. It's a primal human drive. When
we do not feel connected to others, when we feel
left out, when we feel unloved, it hits our brain
like a physical pain. It can affect our physical health,
our mental well being, and even shorten our lifespan. I
(12:29):
don't have to tell you, I've said it enough on
this show. Loneliness has been shown to be as dangerous
as smoking fifteen cigarettes a day. Right, we are social creatures.
We are meant to be in a group. Our worst fear,
let's go back to our ancient past when we were
hunters and gatherers, would be to be exiled from the tribe,
(12:50):
left alone in the wilderness to survive or not. Right, So,
some people say that bots can actually replace or give
at least some feeling of a sense of belonging. Now,
this whole idea of sense of belonging was created by
(13:10):
psychologists Baumeister and Leery, and they said there are two
really big conditions that need to be met in order
for someone to have a fulfilled sense of belonging. So
now I want you to think about the robot when
you think about these two conditions. One is frequent positive interactions. Well, yeah, chat, shept,
We'll do that, frequent positive interactions. But wait. Number two,
(13:36):
the relationships must be marked by stability and mutual emotional concern.
You know, AI is intelligence, it's not emotional, right, it'll
give you the illusion right that it's always available, it's
not going to criticize you. It can feel really positive,
(13:58):
but it really falls when it comes to stability and
mutual emotional concern. Because real belonging, a real sense of belonging,
involves mutual care. It means that somebody really values you
and if you reached out, they would be there for you. Now,
there is some research that we don't have many people
(14:20):
in our circle who could actually fulfill that. But if
you have at least two people in your life that
you know you could call at three in the morning
and say hey, I need your help, or you could
call any day and say, hey, I need a ride
to the airport. Right, No one wants to do that
for anybody. But if someone will do that in your life,
then you know that you have stability and mutual concern.
(14:45):
So the question is is it dangerous? Is it wrong?
Is it harmful to be chatting away with the chatbot?
I'm telling you we all kind of do it a
little bit, and for some people it really is a lifeline.
Can ease anxiety, it can offer comfort, it can even
soothe people. But you got to remember, if you're thirsty,
(15:10):
you don't want to drink too much salt water, right,
you want to drink fresh water. So let's talk about
if you are addicted to the robot. May not even
be addicted, but if your main emotional connection is to
a robot. I never thought we'd be saying this, right.
I heard years ago that, remember, China had the one
child rule for years in the seventies or eighties. Now
(15:32):
they're backtracking because a population is going down and girls
aren't having babies. But sadly, I'm sorry to say, people
were terminating female fetuses at a much higher rate, so
they ended up with an oversupply of males. When you
have an oversupply of males, in a culture, violence goes up.
Didn't you see those cans on the beach and Barbie?
They were fighting like crazy, right, And so China had
(15:56):
introduced cloud girlfriends and there were operating stems that had
seven hundred different boyfriends and they would learn their ways
and whatever. I never thought would be this place here
in America, but it's starting. So here's what I want
you to do. Instead of saying hello to the robot,
text a friend and simply say hey, I'm just thinking
(16:17):
about you, just thinking about you, get a response from
a real human. Join a group, any group, especially a
group that meets regularly. I don't care if it's a
fitness class, a garden club, a book club, a wine
tasting group. I like that one. I used to go
to a cooking class all the time. It was like
recreational cooking, and I met so many people there. It
was really fun. And practice being just a little bit
(16:39):
more open in all your human conversations. Let people see
more of you. Be a little vulnerable, Be a little honest,
because remember, real intimacy isn't perfect. It is reciprocal, but
it's human, right, It's messy, it involves risk. Be vulnerable.
(16:59):
You can do this all right? When we come back.
I was asked this week by a reporter to describe
new relationship energy and whether it's good or bad. Look,
if you're in a new relationship, I do not want
to burst your bubble, but you're gonna want to listen
to this when we come back. You're listening to Dodor
Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM six forty. We live
(17:19):
everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
K I Am six forty. You have doctor Wendy Walsh
with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Waalsh Show. I'd
like to welcome my TikTok audience. Hello, TikTok. How are you?
If you guys want to come in the studio and
you're a KFI listener, just log onto TikTok and look
up at doctor Wendy Walsh. And the reason why I
do these live streams is because after this segment, I'm
(17:49):
going to be taking your calls. Now. What I've learned
TikTok listeners is that when I type in the phone
number onto TikTok, they either they disappear the COMMENTO. They
don't disappear me, but they disappear the comment. So I'm
gonna say it out loud a few times, and you
guys might want to write it down. Maybe one of
you could put it in the comments and see what happens.
I don't know the numbers. One eight hundred and five
(18:10):
two zero one five three four. After the segment, that's
one eight hundred five two zero one KFI and I'll
be answering your relationship questions. Okay, So this week I
was asked by a reporter to define new relationship energy. Well,
it's a lot like the honeymoon phase. I call new
(18:32):
relationship energy that delicious beginning of a relationship. It's a
slang term for something that psychologist Dorothy Toff once identified
back in the seventies. She identified something called limerence. Limmerence
is an emotional state that involves very intense feelings where
(18:55):
you feel really infatuated with somebody. You can't get enough
of them, to be with them all the time. You
have a physiological response when you're with them or you're
thinking about them. It could be in your stomach, the butterflies,
et cetera. It's also filled with healthy delusions. There's tons
of research on this. At the very beginning of a relationship,
(19:19):
love is a drug, delicious drug. Okay. It is a
cocktail of neuro hormones that feels so good. It is
the best drug we have. If you are newly in love,
I would never want to burst your bubble. However, when
you're on that cocktail, you're not thinking too clearly and
you can't, which is one of the reasons I always
say you've got to introduce a perspective mate to your
(19:42):
tribe pretty quickly because they'll weigh in with the truth
at some point. Right, So, I know. The question that
comes up a lot is how long does this drug last?
How long does this new relationship energy last? And the
answer is it It depends. It depends on frequency of
(20:03):
contact and the kind of contact. So, if you're somebody
who falls in love very quickly and you meet somebody
new and you have sex very quickly, and you're talking
or texting every single day, okay, that is going to
crash and burn pretty quickly. Now, if you're somebody who's
kind of a slow burn when it comes to love,
(20:25):
you can actually have this state of Limerens last a
lot longer. Now, people who have online only relationships, those
digital relationships, we don't call those parasocial relationships. What will
we call those? We should make up a name for those.
Kayla is like, so, a parasocial relationship is one that
you have with a celebrity or a social media person
(20:46):
where it's not reciprocal. They don't really know who you are.
They're not really giving back, but you have these strong
feelings of attachment or love or attraction to them. That's
a para social relationship. But what if there's a person
on the other end of the keyboard and they're responding
to you, but the relationship is mostly about your mutual projections,
(21:07):
your project your fantasies of who each other really is. Right,
That's why it's really important you get in the real
world pretty quickly. But anyway, there's some people who have
I didn't know you can do this. On TikTok. They
put a cowboy hat and a mustache on me.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, I'm watching the live you have a must flash
and a cow I don't I don't know what that is.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Is that good?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
They're and that's nice? They like you, so I guess
that's a good sign.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Why don't you put a crown on me? And I
feel more like a queen a cowboy hat and mustache.
I like crowns. Anyway, going back to if you just
have an only online digital relationship with somebody, you probably
could stay in this state of limerens or honeymoon phase
for a very very long time. Right now, there are
(21:54):
some pros and cons to this honeymoon stage, the cocooning time.
The biggest pro is that it's a very natural, very
important step towards bonding, right to being able to eventually
make a full commitment. And there's all kinds of neuroscience
behind it. Right when two people meet and they're attracted
(22:14):
to each other, there is, as I said, these neuro
hormones that create this feeling of love. It's euphoric, it
feels wonderful, and this is a crucial feeling to bringing
people together. If they do eventually stay together for the
long time, it's a time when they make some decisions,
(22:35):
decisions to have sex, decisions to maybe be exclusive, decisions
to introduce somebody to their friends and relatives. That's a
pro right, and also it's important to remember it's not
all fake. It's not all delusions because during this important
limerence phase, you're doing a checklist of everything that's right
(22:56):
and wonderful about this person. So then when your brainy
it's used to the hormones and they don't work quite
as strongly and everything starts to flatten out a bit.
You can still remember all the good things. Now, the
cons are some of it is fake. Right. You might
misinterpret somebody's narcissism as self confidence. You might misinterpret somebody's
(23:21):
anxious attachment style as passion and real love right because
they're showing it's moving so quickly, right, And you might
learn later that they have a completely dependent personality. You
might meet somebody and you say, oh, I love that
they're so artsy and they don't care. They're not materialistic,
they don't care about our culture's need for money, and
(23:43):
then you find out later it's because they're dependent on
other people for money and they want yours. Right. So
another con is that when you're in this drug like
state new relationship energy, there is a risk that you
could move way too fast and make some major life
decisions that you shouldn't be making, like getting married too quickly,
(24:04):
buying a house, or God forbid someone becoming pregnant, right,
Because what happens is after it starts to die down,
you peel the layers of the onion or the person
and you start to see who they really are. So
it's an important first step in bonding. Don't get me wrong.
I would never want to burst somebody's bubble at the beginning.
(24:26):
If I had any advice, I would say, within a
few weeks, it's a good idea to get out of
your cocoon and introduce this person to other people in
your life and let them way in. I think it's
really important. There was one guy I had limerens with
for a few weeks, and so I invited him to
dinner at my house and I invited a girlfriend over
(24:48):
to have dinner, and after the evening she called me.
She goes, that dude never even acknowledged me or looked
at me all night. He was so rude, and I
didn't even notice because he was so busy, like la
la la, He's so great, and I was talking to
him right all right. When we come back, I am
going to begin taking your calls. If you would like
to give me a call, I am live right now
on KFI AM six forty, Los Angeles. We are in
(25:11):
iHeartRadio station. The number is I can't post it on TikTok,
so you gotta gotta memorize it. Say again, you commented twice.
Producer Kayla comment it twice and the phone number should
be there, which is one eight hundred five two zero
one KFI. That's one eight hundred five two zero one
five three four. I am a psychology professor, not a therapist.
(25:34):
I've written three books on relationships. I have a lot
of life wisdom and I would love to weigh in
on your love life. One eight hundred five two zero
one five three four. You're listening to the Doctor Wendy
Walsh Show on KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere
on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
AM six forty.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
KFI AM six forty, you have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you.
This is Doctor Wendy Walls Show. Now we are live
on Instagram. If you would like to come in the studio,
You're welcome to log onto Instagram and just search doctor
Wendy Walsh and you can come on in the studio
with us. The number is one eight hundred five to
zero one KFI. I am ready to take your calls. Okay,
(26:17):
producer Kayla. Who do we have? First? We have Greg
with a question. Greg. Hi, Greg, It's doctor Wendy.
Speaker 4 (26:24):
Hi, doctor Wendy. Can you hear me?
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I can? I can hear you perfectly?
Speaker 4 (26:27):
Okay, let me blow you away. First of all. First
of all, I'll let you know I have to ask
this fast because it pretty long. I haven't had sex
in seventeen years.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Oh, is it something you want?
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Choice?
Speaker 1 (26:38):
By choice?
Speaker 4 (26:38):
Okay, no, by choice? Okay, that's seventeen years. But it's
a long story. Now I'm ready. I'm in the grove.
And I went on to Facebook Dating and I got
on there and I met like about ninety four women
and they didn't pass my Yeah, they didn't pass my
test because you know why, we're all hookers. I gave them.
I gave them the test, and they were all hookers
(27:00):
except for four of them. And the four that weren't hookers,
they weren't my type. So you actually, wait.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
You went on Facebook dating, you connected with ninety four women,
and you believe that ninety of them were sex workers
and only four were actually regular women.
Speaker 4 (27:19):
Okay, because I do it, I do a certain test.
I can tell. Okay, I asked some certain questions.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Tell me one of your questions. I just want to
say to the Instagram audience, if you want to hear
both sides of the conversation, download the iHeartRadio app. Otherwise
I repeat the question in my answer. Okay, Greg, tell
me what question you ask women to determine if they're
a sex worker or as you call it, a regular woman.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
First of all, what do they do for a living?
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Oh? What do you do? Oh?
Speaker 4 (27:45):
They tell you from a hooker? Is a hairstylist or
a floor planner or some kind of job that it's
not really you know, that much of a it's kind
of a stretch.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I don't know. Hairdresser. That's not a stretch. That's out
of euphemism. There's a lot of hairdressers out there. Showplanner,
I think showplanner. Yeah, I think Cayle is a showplanner.
All right, Greg, So what's your question for me? Love?
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Okay? My question for you is, basically, I met, I
got offline, and then I after about a year, I said, land,
let me try online again. So I went back online,
still met the same hookers about to get off again
and met somebody and she said, oh man, I've been
looking for somebody that looks like you forever. Then I
gave it a test and she was actually a real person,
(28:30):
and so then and I was very attractive to her,
and vice versa. However, the thing is, I'm fifty eight
and she is twenty nine, and I wanted to know
if this would work. I know you'd probably have daddy
issues of what it was.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
The one woman you met is twenty nine years old.
You are fifty eight years old. You say you have
not had sex and seventeen years, and now your question
for me is will this work? Well, let's define work, Greg,
What do you want to happen? What do you want
to have happened here?
Speaker 4 (29:01):
Well, I actually i'd love to actually marry her if
we get along and stuff like that. But the thing is,
we haven't met yet.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Oh you haven't met in the real world yet.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
Yeah, we've been. Yeah, we've had a regular relationship over
the phone, talking and texting and stuff for like six months.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Six months you've been texting and not met.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Okay, does she live, because she lives. She lives a
little whiles away from me because I'm hoping she lives.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
All Right, here's what I want to tell you, Greg.
Here's I'm going to answer your question. There are no guarantees,
and we must in order to find long term love,
we must take risks, and that means we must meet.
It's not like I can tell you, well, does she
pass this and this and this? Okay, then that's somebody
you can have a long term. Really, we don't know.
(29:46):
You have to do it step by step by step,
say open, stay positive, and stay kind, and I think
you're going to be okay even if it turns out
to be a short term relationship. Thank you for calling, Greg,
and good luck to you. I hope it works out.
When I say workout, I mean I hope you meet
in the real world at least once. That's work out
(30:07):
for me. All right, Producer, Kyla, who do we have next?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
We have Tanya with a comment?
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Okay, Hi, Tanya with a comment? Is doctor Wendy.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
Hi, doctor Wendy. So listen. A couple of weeks ago,
I was listening to your show and you were talking
about a couple when they're walking along of whether or
not the man should welcome the outside. Oh oh, the
sidewalk yield her from the car.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Right.
Speaker 5 (30:34):
So I'm driving Alohong a couple of days later after
hearing your show, and I witnessed that exact thing. So
I'm in my complex where I live, and I'm pulling
down the little road and I witness see a couple
ahead of me, a young couple, and they're holding hands.
So as I approached them, he turns around and sees me.
He immediately drops her hand and goes to the outside
(30:56):
of her as if to shield her from my car.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I love this.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
They go up the ways and they turn to the right.
I followed them. I turned to the right and he
does it again. He dropped her hand and he went
to the outside of her as to shield her from
my car. So I pulled it beside him, and I said,
excuse me, I just witnessed what you did, and I'm
so impressed with that. I said, I'm proud of you,
you know. And I told a young girl, I said,
(31:21):
you've got a good boyfriend there to do that for you.
I'm doing Oh, Tanya wanted to tell you that I
was so impressed.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Thank you out of it and the great thing that
you did is you rewarded the behavior?
Speaker 5 (31:31):
Right?
Speaker 1 (31:31):
You complimented him on his behavior. Tanya's talking about that
famous sidewalk rule I talked about a couple of weeks ago,
where you know, historically men would walk on the outside
near the traffic to protect a woman in her long
dresses from you know, wild carriages and horses and mud
and you know, horse poop that would fly up. And now, really,
is there much a protection from an suv careening at you?
(31:54):
Probably not, but it's still a nice gesture because women
perceive protection from a man as a very attractive trait.
So Tanya witnessed this young man doing it at she
complimented him. Thank you so much, Thank you so much
for doing that, Tanya. All right, I'm also going to
(32:14):
be answering your social media questions. The number is one
eight hundred five to zero one five three four. If
you'd like to call one eight hundred five two zero
one five three four. Let me go to my DMS
and see what I got. Dear doctor Wendy, WHOA, this
is a heavy one. My ex got a restraining order
against me. It was many years ago. I was in
(32:36):
my twenties and couldn't properly handle my emotions. I grew
from this. I like to be honest about it. However,
when I tell a woman whom I'm dating about my past,
they pull away from me. I get ghosted, cut off, dumped.
What can I do? You know what, dude, you are
doing the right thing, and let me tell you this.
(32:56):
You probably I don't know if you saw me propose
on live radio to my now husband Julio, who has
experienced incarceration in his life. Right, ten percent of American
men will experience incarceration, and the vast majority are not
violent criminals. It's not violent crimes. Many of them are
(33:17):
experiencing from weed, which is now legal. Right, So I
think you're doing the right thing. I'm going to ask
that you probably meet them once without telling them the story,
just for coffee, and then develop an emotional connection with them,
not by text by phone calls, where you slowly start
(33:39):
to disclose intimate things and they disclose intimate things about
their life. And you know what I said to Julio
on our very first coffee date is, hey, listen, we
could sit here and brag about like how great we are,
but why don't we start by talking about how undateable
we are. So the stories came out very early, but
for most people, you wait till you build a little
(34:00):
bit of safety and then you say, hey, you know,
let's share a story about something we're ashamed about that
might have happened a long time ago. What you're trying
to do is find a partner with empathy and understanding
and don't be filled with shame continuously for this. I'm
(34:20):
so sorry this is happening to you, all right, Dear
doctor Wendy. Guy, Oh, how's our time? Do we have
to go to break? Oh? We have one minut quit
if you'd like to call in the numbers one eight
hundred and five two zero one five three four. Dear
doctor Wendy. A guy I'm dating is really bad at communicating, really?
Or is he just a dude? Sorry? I told him
I have an issue with this. He apologized and promised
(34:43):
to do better. He did better for half a day
and then got right back to his old ways. Is
this something I should be patient with or should I
walk away? I'm a huge issue with his lack of responses. Okay,
So the research out there shows that if you dismiss somebody,
give them the side treatment. That is the number one
thing that leads to divorce in marriage or breakups if
(35:06):
you're not married. And so, what's interesting is you said
he did better for half a day and then stop.
So he you know, how's the ability to write? It's
not like he's not neurotypical, or is missing some social cues,
or is just a big introvert. I think the conversation
next should be about why can you help me? And
not accusatory. You don't respond to me, and I don't
(35:27):
like that. That's an issue for me. That's not going
to make somebody open up. How about something like, you know,
when I say something and then you don't respond, I
feel kind of dismissed or abandoned. Can you help me
understand what your intention is? That's what you say to
start the conversation. You don't just get rid of them,
(35:49):
all right, Dear doctor Wendy, How do I break the
cycle of seeing my interest isn't treating me right? But
my logic disappears when he calls and then we hook.
I'm so sorry. I get on cloud nine. He reminds
me that he really doesn't like me. Should I go
no contact? Let me tell you you're hurting yourself. And for
(36:13):
some reason you want to give yourself this pain. I
suggest you get a good licensed therapist who can help
you understand the why behind it, because when you understand
why you're giving yourself this gift of pain, then you'll
be able to change. Yes, I would say, as your
old auntie, go no contact, but that's only going to
(36:34):
last until you meet another one who treats you that bad,
and then you're gonna want him again. Right, You're gonna
want that one too. You know, our model for love
is formed very early in life, partly genetic and partly
how we were treated by our primary caregivers in the
first three years of life. And so love isn't about
finding pleasure. Love isn't about finding happiness. Love is about
(36:57):
finding the familiar, the familiar, and so your therapist will
help you figure out what happened early in life to
make you want to give this kind of pain to yourself.
I'm sorry this is happening to you, all right. When
we come back, I'm going to continue to answer your
social media questions and take your calls. The numbers one
(37:18):
eight hundred five two zero one KFI. That's one eight
hundred five two zero one five three four. You are
listening to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM
six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You've
been listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh. You can always hear
us live on KFI AM six forty from seven to
(37:38):
nine pm on Sunday and anytime on demand on the
iHeartRadio app
Dr. Wendy Walsh on Demand News
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