March 23, 2025 • 28 mins
Harry Pottter, Letting the Devil In
child goes to private school church. told there is no hell
harry pottter books. is that letting the devil in.
sinners go to hel. but we are all sinners. how does that work out
child goes to private school church. told there is no hell
harry pottter books. is that letting the devil in.
sinners go to hel. but we are all sinners. how does that work out
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to KFI A six forty on demand.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Mary. Welcome to Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hi, this is Mary.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
How can I help you? Mary?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I have a child that I sent I'm a Calvinist
by nature, okay, and I sent my child to a
Christian college that purports that type of theology, and she
is now going to a church that basically preaches universalism,
(00:33):
and I'm very concerned for her. It's like, there's the
pastor's preaching that there's basically no hell, and I want
to know how I can reach her.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
This is a weird one because really, on its face,
it makes no sense. You really have to stretch hard
to try and get you know, that everyone gets to
heaven type thing, and there's no consequences to actions at all.
Just doesn't really fit into scripture. I will say this.
(01:03):
In Matthew chapter twenty five, verse forty six, it says,
and these will go away into eternal punishment, but the
righteous into eternal life. The Greek word there for eternal
in both cases isious, and both the same words, so
there's no reason to think that one is speaking about
(01:26):
eternity and then the other one's not. So it's almost
like you wish fulfillment to say, well, no, when it's
talking about eternal life, it means eternal life. But when
it's talking about eternal punishment, it's not really talking about eternity.
God's just going to either make them cease to be
or God's going to bring them into heaven. Has God
(01:51):
won everybody in heaven? Absolutely? But a clear but often
misunderstood answer to this deals with me being in the
garden of Gathsemone and I'm in the garden and if
you remember, I'm praying to the Father and I say,
if this cup can pass from me? And essentially God says, no,
(02:17):
it can't. But what am I asking? Am I saying
just I don't want to have to go to the cross.
It seems like a hassle.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Dad.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
No, what I'm saying is that if there's any other
way into heaven, if you can get into heaven by
being a good person, if you can get into heaven
by believing whatever you want, if you can get into
heaven any other way, then I don't want to have
to do this. And not in words, but obviously in action,
the response is no, this is the way that it
(02:45):
needs to be done, and it's like that in every
aspect of life. I think it's a beautiful thought, a
beautiful notion. But universalism even has its own problems. It
sounds like, oh gosh, but it receives all things. No,
it doesn't. It doesn't receive those things in which it
(03:06):
disagrees with. So it isn't as universal as you think.
It does have a point where it says, no, you're wrong,
and if there is, because even if you say there's
you know, universalism is wrong, they'd say, no, you're wrong,
which implies that there is a wrong. And if there
is a wrong, then you're accountable for it. So why
(03:28):
are they not looking to see if they are accountable
for what they're staying or saying, or the statements they're making.
It's becoming really popular and you'll find people, even very
well educated pastors and leaders right about this. I think
that the weight of the concept of eternity weighs on people,
(03:50):
and people say, but God is loving God, Yes, but
love comes with consequences. True love is telling somebody they
have something in their teeth. True love is letting somebody
giving them the freedom to make decisions even if they're bad.
You protect them as you can. But you can't protect
(04:11):
someone from themselves. And to take that away or to
somehow say that, oh, well, it's just you know, it
doesn't matter what you do, it really starts wreaking of satanism,
which is due as thou wilt as the whole of law.
If you do whatever you want and you'll get in
and it doesn't matter, then none of it matters. Then
(04:32):
there is no pattern, no otness, nothing you should do
you should not do, that plays a part in it
at all. It doesn't matter. If there are no scoring
mechanisms in a game or sport of any kind, and
there are no rules, it is no longer a sport,
it is no longer a game, it's no longer worth watching.
(04:53):
There must be consequences, if for no other reason, then
man is an intellectual being created with intellect, will and emotion,
and knows the difference between right and wrong. If you
know the difference between right and wrong, that implies that
there is a oughtness, there is something that you should
do or should not do, And if there is something
(05:16):
that you should do and should not do, there is
going to be a reward or a consequence. That's in everything.
That's not unreasonable. If you build something wrong, it falls apart.
If you say something wrong, it's not understood. If you
reject the medicine, you die. I know that people run
(05:40):
around saying that the concept of God is a fairy tale,
But what is a fairy tale is the desire to
believe that there is no consequences. The fairy tale is
that you don't need the medicine and you'll self heal. Yet,
when somebody does it in the spiritual sense, when somebody
(06:03):
in the spiritual world says, you know what you get
in now, I'm reducing and using reductionism. I'm reducing the
universalist's belief for the sake of conversation. But really it
has no place in the Bible at all. The Bible
(06:26):
talks about reward and consequence, and the punishment of hell
is where people get confused. It's not as much about
being punished as it is God allowing you to go
to a place that you've chosen to go. You've said
I want to go here. I want to be in
(06:47):
a place where God isn't because I have rejected that
God for the entirety of my life. You want to
know hell to a person who has rejected God and
doesn't want to be with God for the seventy eighty
ninety measly years you're on. You know what hell is
to somebody who rejects God. Hell would be heaven to
sit with God and be in his present and worship
(07:08):
him for eternity. So God, out of his love, allows
you to reject Him to the point of death and
go to a place where his salvation is no longer.
The pain of hell is knowing, is now knowing what
you already knew, that you need God, but you rejected it.
(07:31):
But it's done. Universalism is the equivalent of picking up
a loaded gun, pointing at another human being, shooting them,
and then somehow saying, you know what, I can see
that they're dead. Now I don't want that consequence. I
want to do over. I want that bullet back and
(07:51):
it's not going to happen. You're smarter than that. You
know more than that. It's not based on ignorance. It's
based on rejection, and there's a difference. Norma, Welcome to
the Jesus Christ Show. Yes, Hi, well, yes, do you
(08:12):
have a question.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Oh yes, My question is reading the Harry Potter books,
which is grand My granddaughter wants to start reading them.
Is that letting the devil in because of the contents
of the books?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Oh, No, more so than reading Tolkien or reading C. S. Lewis,
The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. Really, it's it's
about context and the child understanding. There might be a
point where a child might be too young for them
and they should always be explained and if you, you know,
have good parents, set of parents that are willing to explain. Well,
(08:50):
this is fantasy, but some of those fantasy things that
are talked about are concerns to us as Christians. If
it's a Christian household, and talk about those and explain those.
I think that it that it's perfectly fine. It's like
anything else. It's a it's a wonderland. And then there's
people that say, well C. S. Lewis always had the
backdrop of Christianity, but you wouldn't know that. You wouldn't
(09:13):
know it if you weren't a believer, if you weren't
a Christian, you'd be reading it that it's dealing with,
you know, mystical lands and mystical creatures and all of
these things. So really it's about you putting it in
the context and protecting yourself that way, and if there's
something questionable in it, explain why it's questionable, and set
an age limit if you'd like for for the children
(09:35):
to read it. There are some some things in the
Harry Potter series that I think a little interesting for
the younger set and probably not the best for them
to consume. But there's other things that I think teach
a lot about friendship and loyalty and right and wrong,
and those are those are wonderful principles no matter how
(09:56):
they're seated. You just have to take the time to
know what your children or reading and explain it to them.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Now, what about the spells and the connototionans that they say,
I've heard that those are real spells? Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Well, there are people that make those claims, and there
might be some sort of ties to There's things that
I hear people say over and over as believers sometimes
that I tell them, Hey, there's Scripture says not to
pray anything over and over in a chant or some
sort of mantra or anything like that. I would say,
(10:31):
when if there are spells and incantations that you're concerned about,
then you make them known and you explained to the
child as to what they are and why it is
not a part of that household. But there are things,
for instance, there are things that are said and described
in scripture that are not prescribed. They would not be
(10:54):
something that a Christian should do. Even I said at
one point, don't use the word raka, which was a
dirty word. Now I said it, but I was saying
it in a context not to say it. So there,
and there's even Paul even quotes non Christian sources at
times that are quoted now in scripture. So it's a
(11:16):
matter really of context. It's very easy for people to get,
you know, fly off the handle and say, oh, it's
evil and this and that. Am I thrilled about that?
Speaker 4 (11:25):
No?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I think a lot of that stuff, the incantations and stuff,
give children a false understanding of how the world works.
But it is fantasy, and as long as you tell
them and explain to them, that part is fantasy. But
there are people that believe in witchcraft, and there are
people that believe that this is going to change their life.
That is not the way we work in this family.
(11:47):
And this is why I think is a legitimate jumping
off point into the conversation that witchcraft exists, and there
are those, and there's arguments people going between white witchcraft
and black witchcraft, to white magic and black magic and
all that. You know, are you a good witch or
are you a bad witch? And all this business. Scripturally,
it's all the same, regardless of the person's heart, it's
(12:09):
all the same. No to witchcraft across the board, to incantations,
to casting spells, all of that across the board. Bad
Scripture does not contone and condone it. But there's going
to be stories of it, and there's even stories of
it in scripture, And if you made a movie of scripture,
there'd be so much stuff that Christians couldn't even see.
(12:30):
Yet it's in the Bible. So really it's not about
whether they come in contact with it or not. It's
whether you explain it well enough and that they have
a good understanding of what it is in their life
and how it affects them. Unice, Welcome to the Jesus
Christ Show.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Good morning, Hi, how.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Can I help you?
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Okay, I have a question and my question is in
disconnected to the question that lady asked about it Harry
Potter Show. I know that man lives in the body
and man has spirit.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
And so m well, there, it depends on Some people
say that there's there's a difference what they call dichotomists
and trichotomists. A dichotomist believes in the flesh and the spirit.
A trichotomists would say there's flesh, spirit and soul. But
some people see them as different things.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
So just to clarify which, okay.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Well, it depends on where you stand. Theologically. Most Christians
tend to be dichotomists, meaning that they believe in the
flesh and the immaterial part, which is considered the spirit
of the soul. Okay, so what what is your question?
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Okay? My question then, is you say that the lady
asks you if it's okay to read the Harry's Potter,
the Harry Potter's books and whatever personal I have not
I have asked a Christian. I've made up my mind.
I don't watch the movies, I don't read it. I
believe that I have to protect goes through my eyes,
(14:01):
through my mind, and through my ears agree, and I
also try to encourage people around me not to do that.
So my question is, how do we protect ourselves from
those influences of evil, say, through the movie, through books
like Harry Potters, and through what people say.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
First of all, the most important thing, and people don't
understand this about scripture either, is no simply the difference
between prescriptive and descriptive language. There's a difference between describing
something that happens. The Bible itself is the most vulgar,
the most violent book that you will ever read. There
(14:44):
is perversions among perversions in scripture, like you've never ever
heard about bestiality, all kinds of ugliness, but it's not
prescribing them. It's describing that they're taking place. Okay, so
you want to read about incantations and stuff like that
that exists in scripture. It talks about sorcery in scripture.
(15:06):
It talks about witchcraft in scripture. It talks about those things.
So what you don't want is anything that is prescribing.
You should do this. Also, if it's prescribing it, then
absolutely you put it aside or you read it academically
as an adult. And what I mean by that is
(15:26):
that there are going to be some people that you know,
there's some people that have better physical balance than others,
and they may be an acrobat, but your average person
can't do that well spiritually. There are people that have
different strengths and weaknesses as well, and there are some
people units I wouldn't have get near certain things because
it's not in their spirit to do so. The fact
(15:47):
that you limit yourself shows me that you're a mature
Christian who says, this is not what I want in
my life. Period. It may be okay for me to
read I may have the liberty in Christ to read it,
but I'm not going to And you need to have
that discernment and that ability, which is why I tell
parents to be active and participatory in their children's life,
(16:09):
especially the things that they read and consume in life,
because it seems that parents barely watch what their children
are consuming physically with food, let alone the spiritual and
the intellectual. Having said that, the way you would defend
yourself where the Christian would defend themselves is really Ephesians
(16:33):
breaks it down in Ephesian six about putting on the
full armor of God and having being girded in your
loins with the truth, so everything is bound by the
truth first and foremost, saying, having put on the breastplate
of righteousness, that the very core of who you are
should be based on doing the right thing as you
(16:54):
understand it. As Scripture says, there is a truth and
it is universal. Should be living life based on that righteousness,
not on what you know will get you this, or
what will get you that, or what the quick way
is or what the you know the easier way. It's
about doing the right thing, having your feet shod with
(17:15):
the preparation of the Gospel of peace. So your your
very footing should be based on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
That should be the very footing of everything. And then
it goes on to say and then taking on the
helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which
is the word of God. So those are the things
that you protect yourself with. And if in using those things,
you come to the decision, I do not want to
(17:37):
participate in this, or I do not want to participate
in that, so be it. Then do not keep that
protect yourself from that. If you know where your strengths
and weaknesses lie. But it doesn't mean that another Christian
might have different strength, and it might not bother them.
Because somebody has to read these things and see these
(17:57):
movies to tell you not to read them or see them.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
But that's exactly why I'm asking a question. But here's
a lady who is asking I haven't gone to any
theological school whatever done in the studies. I would say
bluntly that I went to the school of the Holy Spirit.
Like I listened to the Word of God. I opened
my heart to God. I love God with my heart,
my soul, and my spirit. So I've just learned whatever
(18:22):
I talked my beliefs through my experiences with God and
the Holy Spirit. But to me, the lady who asked
the question, you are on the radio and we're asking
all these questions. That means you haven't understanding and you
were in position to answer all these questions. She asked
her child wants to read the Harry's Potter, the Harry
Potter's book. So I would just know that she has
(18:46):
not reached that point where she would say draw the
line and say no, I have children. I would tell
my child. If my child is living in my house
and he wants to read the Harry Potter, I would
say no, and I'll tell her the reasons why I
don't want my child to do that, because I believe
in I agree and believe in everything that you have
just told me about ehisions. But some people are not
(19:07):
there yet.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Okay, but that's part of the growing process units and
they still you still need that. I'm here for three
hours on a Sunday, and they're only going to be
able to ask me in this context in this way
those questions at that time. People need to build their strength.
And what I want to do and what the purpose
of the show is is to give them those tools
(19:29):
to the best of the ability of the time. That
we have to give them tools to be able to
take with them. And that doesn't mean and I know
the Church is really great on this. The Church wants
to continue to say do this, don't do that. But
there are but there are some things in scripture where
it doesn't say, and you're going to have to use
that discernment. How much of that wine becomes being buzzed
(19:50):
or being drunk is going to be different on the individual.
So if I said only drink half an ounce that
that doesn't play for everyone, and in this case it
wouldn't neither. The mother, the parent in this case is
going to have to play a part. And I say
that is reading it, understanding it, and participating in your
(20:12):
child's consumption of it. That's a healthy rule across the
board for all books, not just that, but Christians tend
to feel comfortable with certain things because they feel comfortable.
It's social, it's cultural, whatever it is. And that is
where I think there's a problem, because if you say,
(20:32):
well C. S. Lewis was a Christian, therefore his fantasy
books are okay, even though they may have this, that
and the other, yet these are not I think that's
a good rule of thumb. But just because someone's a
Christian doesn't mean they're going to be good at other
things or that there isn't going to be something in there.
So ultimately, outside of scripture its own self, you should
(20:58):
be explaining and understanding and parsing these things with your children.
And to make the fantasy of Harry Potter out to
be the devil, I think causes major problems. And usually
it comes from people not wanting to understand it or
read it for themselves or take the time to read
it with their children, so they just say no to
(21:19):
all of it. And if that's your choice, that's fine.
I'm saying that is not the only choice. There are
ways to look at these things, and to even take
lessons out of them all. Truth is God's truth. Now
what I prefer you get it through a purer source.
You're not having to, you know, have the sense of
an old cow and eat the hay and leave the sticks. Yeah,
(21:42):
but I have met many wonderful, wonderful, godly children who
are caught up by the characters in the fantasy and
not the witchcraft, and they should be allowed, in the
context of parental guidance, to explore those things. Otherwise, the
repression of those things causes a gross curiosity that when
(22:05):
the child gets of an age where they're allowed to
read or do whatever they want, they go in whole
hog head over heels and start seeing it from a
much less fantasy point and now is a more practical point,
and you get people dabbling in witchcraft, whereas a child
who's seeing it as pure fantasy less likely to if
(22:27):
it's explained to them. So the balance of these things
is what I want. Jason, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
Yes, I was just wondering. I read through the Bible
on several times and talk to several ministers, and each
time I talked to a minister, I get a different answer,
and the point being if who goes to if sinners
(22:59):
goes to hell. But we're all taunt that we are sinners.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Romans three twenty three says all of sin and falling
short of the glory of God.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
Absolutely, So how do we if we're all sinners and
sinners go to hell? How is that going to work out?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Well, there needs to be somebody who's a mediary, somebody
who between you and the Father can vouch for you
or pay for the cost of sin.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
You have.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
In Matthew one twenty one, it says she will give
birth to a son, and you are to give him
the name Jesus because he will save his people from
their sins.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
I understand that, okay.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
And then you find in Hebrews five nine, and once
made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for
all who obey him. So you're starting to see kind
of a pattern here as to what that means. Acts
four twelve says salvation is found in no one else,
for there is no other name under heaven given to
(24:09):
mankind by which we must be saved. So imagine it
this way, Jason, that if you read that everyone needs
to go to jail, and then you read that everyone
needs to go to jail unless they have a million dollars.
(24:31):
That would automatically state that anyone with a million dollars
willing to pay it wouldn't go to jail. So the
sins that are done in life are sins against God.
All sins are sins against God. So God is the
one that sets the stakes. And because the justice of
sinning against a holy, righteous, and eternal God have to
(24:55):
be eternal by definition, that the only thing that can
pay for that would be something eternal as well. In
this case, it would be the holy and righteous, sinless
Lamb of God taking on the sins of the world
through the death and the Cross and resurrecting into glorified resurrection.
(25:17):
And to those who believe and accept that and live
for God, the payment is made on their behalf. To
those that reject God, don't believe you exists, don't care
once to do whatever they want, continue to live in
the pattern of sin without the acceptance of the redemption,
(25:38):
there is.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
None I see. Okay, that explains it to me a
little bit better than what it has been in the past.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Well, it's not always easy to comprehend it, in the
sense that when you put it in religious terms, but
when you put it in simple terms, imagine it this way.
If there was a judge. If you're a judge and
you're sitting on a panel to make a judgment, and
there is someone standing before you that has been proclaimed guilty,
(26:10):
and it happens to be your son, and you know
that he's guilty, and you know that you, as the
judge and righteously have to put upon him the greatest
fine because of the act in which he did. And
let's say it's ten thousand dollars. You would justly say
(26:33):
that he owes the court ten thousand dollars. But then
you might take off your robe, stop being the judge
for a moment, and be the father of that person,
and pay that ten thousand dollars. Therefore, justice is served,
justice is consistent, and it still stays righteous. But that
(26:58):
only would happen for those who are the child of
that judge. The judge didn't stop being a judge. The
jud judge didn't change the laws or any of those things.
The payment that has to be made is so great
that a man or a woman could not make it.
(27:21):
So the only way for that payment to be made
would be this bridge, this opportunity, this payment by way
of God himself, and people either accept that or reject it,
(27:41):
and by accepting it will be redeemed. By rejecting it, no,
they can't be redeemed. They continue to live in the
state of being sinful.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Kfix on demand
You're listening to KFI A six forty on demand.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Mary. Welcome to Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hi, this is Mary.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
How can I help you? Mary?
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I have a child that I sent I'm a Calvinist
by nature, okay, and I sent my child to a
Christian college that purports that type of theology, and she
is now going to a church that basically preaches universalism,
(00:33):
and I'm very concerned for her. It's like, there's the
pastor's preaching that there's basically no hell, and I want
to know how I can reach her.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
This is a weird one because really, on its face,
it makes no sense. You really have to stretch hard
to try and get you know, that everyone gets to
heaven type thing, and there's no consequences to actions at all.
Just doesn't really fit into scripture. I will say this.
(01:03):
In Matthew chapter twenty five, verse forty six, it says,
and these will go away into eternal punishment, but the
righteous into eternal life. The Greek word there for eternal
in both cases isious, and both the same words, so
there's no reason to think that one is speaking about
(01:26):
eternity and then the other one's not. So it's almost
like you wish fulfillment to say, well, no, when it's
talking about eternal life, it means eternal life. But when
it's talking about eternal punishment, it's not really talking about eternity.
God's just going to either make them cease to be
or God's going to bring them into heaven. Has God
(01:51):
won everybody in heaven? Absolutely? But a clear but often
misunderstood answer to this deals with me being in the
garden of Gathsemone and I'm in the garden and if
you remember, I'm praying to the Father and I say,
if this cup can pass from me? And essentially God says, no,
(02:17):
it can't. But what am I asking? Am I saying
just I don't want to have to go to the cross.
It seems like a hassle.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Dad.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
No, what I'm saying is that if there's any other
way into heaven, if you can get into heaven by
being a good person, if you can get into heaven
by believing whatever you want, if you can get into
heaven any other way, then I don't want to have
to do this. And not in words, but obviously in action,
the response is no, this is the way that it
(02:45):
needs to be done, and it's like that in every
aspect of life. I think it's a beautiful thought, a
beautiful notion. But universalism even has its own problems. It
sounds like, oh gosh, but it receives all things. No,
it doesn't. It doesn't receive those things in which it
(03:06):
disagrees with. So it isn't as universal as you think.
It does have a point where it says, no, you're wrong,
and if there is, because even if you say there's
you know, universalism is wrong, they'd say, no, you're wrong,
which implies that there is a wrong. And if there
is a wrong, then you're accountable for it. So why
(03:28):
are they not looking to see if they are accountable
for what they're staying or saying, or the statements they're making.
It's becoming really popular and you'll find people, even very
well educated pastors and leaders right about this. I think
that the weight of the concept of eternity weighs on people,
(03:50):
and people say, but God is loving God, Yes, but
love comes with consequences. True love is telling somebody they
have something in their teeth. True love is letting somebody
giving them the freedom to make decisions even if they're bad.
You protect them as you can. But you can't protect
(04:11):
someone from themselves. And to take that away or to
somehow say that, oh, well, it's just you know, it
doesn't matter what you do, it really starts wreaking of satanism,
which is due as thou wilt as the whole of law.
If you do whatever you want and you'll get in
and it doesn't matter, then none of it matters. Then
(04:32):
there is no pattern, no otness, nothing you should do
you should not do, that plays a part in it
at all. It doesn't matter. If there are no scoring
mechanisms in a game or sport of any kind, and
there are no rules, it is no longer a sport,
it is no longer a game, it's no longer worth watching.
(04:53):
There must be consequences, if for no other reason, then
man is an intellectual being created with intellect, will and emotion,
and knows the difference between right and wrong. If you
know the difference between right and wrong, that implies that
there is a oughtness, there is something that you should
do or should not do, And if there is something
(05:16):
that you should do and should not do, there is
going to be a reward or a consequence. That's in everything.
That's not unreasonable. If you build something wrong, it falls apart.
If you say something wrong, it's not understood. If you
reject the medicine, you die. I know that people run
(05:40):
around saying that the concept of God is a fairy tale,
But what is a fairy tale is the desire to
believe that there is no consequences. The fairy tale is
that you don't need the medicine and you'll self heal. Yet,
when somebody does it in the spiritual sense, when somebody
(06:03):
in the spiritual world says, you know what you get
in now, I'm reducing and using reductionism. I'm reducing the
universalist's belief for the sake of conversation. But really it
has no place in the Bible at all. The Bible
(06:26):
talks about reward and consequence, and the punishment of hell
is where people get confused. It's not as much about
being punished as it is God allowing you to go
to a place that you've chosen to go. You've said
I want to go here. I want to be in
(06:47):
a place where God isn't because I have rejected that
God for the entirety of my life. You want to
know hell to a person who has rejected God and
doesn't want to be with God for the seventy eighty
ninety measly years you're on. You know what hell is
to somebody who rejects God. Hell would be heaven to
sit with God and be in his present and worship
(07:08):
him for eternity. So God, out of his love, allows
you to reject Him to the point of death and
go to a place where his salvation is no longer.
The pain of hell is knowing, is now knowing what
you already knew, that you need God, but you rejected it.
(07:31):
But it's done. Universalism is the equivalent of picking up
a loaded gun, pointing at another human being, shooting them,
and then somehow saying, you know what, I can see
that they're dead. Now I don't want that consequence. I
want to do over. I want that bullet back and
(07:51):
it's not going to happen. You're smarter than that. You
know more than that. It's not based on ignorance. It's
based on rejection, and there's a difference. Norma, Welcome to
the Jesus Christ Show. Yes, Hi, well, yes, do you
(08:12):
have a question.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Oh yes, My question is reading the Harry Potter books,
which is grand My granddaughter wants to start reading them.
Is that letting the devil in because of the contents
of the books?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Oh, No, more so than reading Tolkien or reading C. S. Lewis,
The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. Really, it's it's
about context and the child understanding. There might be a
point where a child might be too young for them
and they should always be explained and if you, you know,
have good parents, set of parents that are willing to explain. Well,
(08:50):
this is fantasy, but some of those fantasy things that
are talked about are concerns to us as Christians. If
it's a Christian household, and talk about those and explain those.
I think that it that it's perfectly fine. It's like
anything else. It's a it's a wonderland. And then there's
people that say, well C. S. Lewis always had the
backdrop of Christianity, but you wouldn't know that. You wouldn't
(09:13):
know it if you weren't a believer, if you weren't
a Christian, you'd be reading it that it's dealing with,
you know, mystical lands and mystical creatures and all of
these things. So really it's about you putting it in
the context and protecting yourself that way, and if there's
something questionable in it, explain why it's questionable, and set
an age limit if you'd like for for the children
(09:35):
to read it. There are some some things in the
Harry Potter series that I think a little interesting for
the younger set and probably not the best for them
to consume. But there's other things that I think teach
a lot about friendship and loyalty and right and wrong,
and those are those are wonderful principles no matter how
(09:56):
they're seated. You just have to take the time to
know what your children or reading and explain it to them.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Now, what about the spells and the connototionans that they say,
I've heard that those are real spells? Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Well, there are people that make those claims, and there
might be some sort of ties to There's things that
I hear people say over and over as believers sometimes
that I tell them, Hey, there's Scripture says not to
pray anything over and over in a chant or some
sort of mantra or anything like that. I would say,
(10:31):
when if there are spells and incantations that you're concerned about,
then you make them known and you explained to the
child as to what they are and why it is
not a part of that household. But there are things,
for instance, there are things that are said and described
in scripture that are not prescribed. They would not be
(10:54):
something that a Christian should do. Even I said at
one point, don't use the word raka, which was a
dirty word. Now I said it, but I was saying
it in a context not to say it. So there,
and there's even Paul even quotes non Christian sources at
times that are quoted now in scripture. So it's a
(11:16):
matter really of context. It's very easy for people to get,
you know, fly off the handle and say, oh, it's
evil and this and that. Am I thrilled about that?
Speaker 4 (11:25):
No?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I think a lot of that stuff, the incantations and stuff,
give children a false understanding of how the world works.
But it is fantasy, and as long as you tell
them and explain to them, that part is fantasy. But
there are people that believe in witchcraft, and there are
people that believe that this is going to change their life.
That is not the way we work in this family.
(11:47):
And this is why I think is a legitimate jumping
off point into the conversation that witchcraft exists, and there
are those, and there's arguments people going between white witchcraft
and black witchcraft, to white magic and black magic and
all that. You know, are you a good witch or
are you a bad witch? And all this business. Scripturally,
it's all the same, regardless of the person's heart, it's
(12:09):
all the same. No to witchcraft across the board, to incantations,
to casting spells, all of that across the board. Bad
Scripture does not contone and condone it. But there's going
to be stories of it, and there's even stories of
it in scripture, And if you made a movie of scripture,
there'd be so much stuff that Christians couldn't even see.
(12:30):
Yet it's in the Bible. So really it's not about
whether they come in contact with it or not. It's
whether you explain it well enough and that they have
a good understanding of what it is in their life
and how it affects them. Unice, Welcome to the Jesus
Christ Show.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Good morning, Hi, how.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Can I help you?
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Okay, I have a question and my question is in
disconnected to the question that lady asked about it Harry
Potter Show. I know that man lives in the body
and man has spirit.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
And so m well, there, it depends on Some people
say that there's there's a difference what they call dichotomists
and trichotomists. A dichotomist believes in the flesh and the spirit.
A trichotomists would say there's flesh, spirit and soul. But
some people see them as different things.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
So just to clarify which, okay.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Well, it depends on where you stand. Theologically. Most Christians
tend to be dichotomists, meaning that they believe in the
flesh and the immaterial part, which is considered the spirit
of the soul. Okay, so what what is your question?
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Okay? My question then, is you say that the lady
asks you if it's okay to read the Harry's Potter,
the Harry Potter's books and whatever personal I have not
I have asked a Christian. I've made up my mind.
I don't watch the movies, I don't read it. I
believe that I have to protect goes through my eyes,
(14:01):
through my mind, and through my ears agree, and I
also try to encourage people around me not to do that.
So my question is, how do we protect ourselves from
those influences of evil, say, through the movie, through books
like Harry Potters, and through what people say.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
First of all, the most important thing, and people don't
understand this about scripture either, is no simply the difference
between prescriptive and descriptive language. There's a difference between describing
something that happens. The Bible itself is the most vulgar,
the most violent book that you will ever read. There
(14:44):
is perversions among perversions in scripture, like you've never ever
heard about bestiality, all kinds of ugliness, but it's not
prescribing them. It's describing that they're taking place. Okay, so
you want to read about incantations and stuff like that
that exists in scripture. It talks about sorcery in scripture.
(15:06):
It talks about witchcraft in scripture. It talks about those things.
So what you don't want is anything that is prescribing.
You should do this. Also, if it's prescribing it, then
absolutely you put it aside or you read it academically
as an adult. And what I mean by that is
(15:26):
that there are going to be some people that you know,
there's some people that have better physical balance than others,
and they may be an acrobat, but your average person
can't do that well spiritually. There are people that have
different strengths and weaknesses as well, and there are some
people units I wouldn't have get near certain things because
it's not in their spirit to do so. The fact
(15:47):
that you limit yourself shows me that you're a mature
Christian who says, this is not what I want in
my life. Period. It may be okay for me to
read I may have the liberty in Christ to read it,
but I'm not going to And you need to have
that discernment and that ability, which is why I tell
parents to be active and participatory in their children's life,
(16:09):
especially the things that they read and consume in life,
because it seems that parents barely watch what their children
are consuming physically with food, let alone the spiritual and
the intellectual. Having said that, the way you would defend
yourself where the Christian would defend themselves is really Ephesians
(16:33):
breaks it down in Ephesian six about putting on the
full armor of God and having being girded in your
loins with the truth, so everything is bound by the
truth first and foremost, saying, having put on the breastplate
of righteousness, that the very core of who you are
should be based on doing the right thing as you
(16:54):
understand it. As Scripture says, there is a truth and
it is universal. Should be living life based on that righteousness,
not on what you know will get you this, or
what will get you that, or what the quick way
is or what the you know the easier way. It's
about doing the right thing, having your feet shod with
(17:15):
the preparation of the Gospel of peace. So your your
very footing should be based on the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
That should be the very footing of everything. And then
it goes on to say and then taking on the
helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which
is the word of God. So those are the things
that you protect yourself with. And if in using those things,
you come to the decision, I do not want to
(17:37):
participate in this, or I do not want to participate
in that, so be it. Then do not keep that
protect yourself from that. If you know where your strengths
and weaknesses lie. But it doesn't mean that another Christian
might have different strength, and it might not bother them.
Because somebody has to read these things and see these
(17:57):
movies to tell you not to read them or see them.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
But that's exactly why I'm asking a question. But here's
a lady who is asking I haven't gone to any
theological school whatever done in the studies. I would say
bluntly that I went to the school of the Holy Spirit.
Like I listened to the Word of God. I opened
my heart to God. I love God with my heart,
my soul, and my spirit. So I've just learned whatever
(18:22):
I talked my beliefs through my experiences with God and
the Holy Spirit. But to me, the lady who asked
the question, you are on the radio and we're asking
all these questions. That means you haven't understanding and you
were in position to answer all these questions. She asked
her child wants to read the Harry's Potter, the Harry
Potter's book. So I would just know that she has
(18:46):
not reached that point where she would say draw the
line and say no, I have children. I would tell
my child. If my child is living in my house
and he wants to read the Harry Potter, I would
say no, and I'll tell her the reasons why I
don't want my child to do that, because I believe
in I agree and believe in everything that you have
just told me about ehisions. But some people are not
(19:07):
there yet.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Okay, but that's part of the growing process units and
they still you still need that. I'm here for three
hours on a Sunday, and they're only going to be
able to ask me in this context in this way
those questions at that time. People need to build their strength.
And what I want to do and what the purpose
of the show is is to give them those tools
(19:29):
to the best of the ability of the time. That
we have to give them tools to be able to
take with them. And that doesn't mean and I know
the Church is really great on this. The Church wants
to continue to say do this, don't do that. But
there are but there are some things in scripture where
it doesn't say, and you're going to have to use
that discernment. How much of that wine becomes being buzzed
(19:50):
or being drunk is going to be different on the individual.
So if I said only drink half an ounce that
that doesn't play for everyone, and in this case it
wouldn't neither. The mother, the parent in this case is
going to have to play a part. And I say
that is reading it, understanding it, and participating in your
(20:12):
child's consumption of it. That's a healthy rule across the
board for all books, not just that, but Christians tend
to feel comfortable with certain things because they feel comfortable.
It's social, it's cultural, whatever it is. And that is
where I think there's a problem, because if you say,
(20:32):
well C. S. Lewis was a Christian, therefore his fantasy
books are okay, even though they may have this, that
and the other, yet these are not I think that's
a good rule of thumb. But just because someone's a
Christian doesn't mean they're going to be good at other
things or that there isn't going to be something in there.
So ultimately, outside of scripture its own self, you should
(20:58):
be explaining and understanding and parsing these things with your children.
And to make the fantasy of Harry Potter out to
be the devil, I think causes major problems. And usually
it comes from people not wanting to understand it or
read it for themselves or take the time to read
it with their children, so they just say no to
(21:19):
all of it. And if that's your choice, that's fine.
I'm saying that is not the only choice. There are
ways to look at these things, and to even take
lessons out of them all. Truth is God's truth. Now
what I prefer you get it through a purer source.
You're not having to, you know, have the sense of
an old cow and eat the hay and leave the sticks. Yeah,
(21:42):
but I have met many wonderful, wonderful, godly children who
are caught up by the characters in the fantasy and
not the witchcraft, and they should be allowed, in the
context of parental guidance, to explore those things. Otherwise, the
repression of those things causes a gross curiosity that when
(22:05):
the child gets of an age where they're allowed to
read or do whatever they want, they go in whole
hog head over heels and start seeing it from a
much less fantasy point and now is a more practical point,
and you get people dabbling in witchcraft, whereas a child
who's seeing it as pure fantasy less likely to if
(22:27):
it's explained to them. So the balance of these things
is what I want. Jason, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
Yes, I was just wondering. I read through the Bible
on several times and talk to several ministers, and each
time I talked to a minister, I get a different answer,
and the point being if who goes to if sinners
(22:59):
goes to hell. But we're all taunt that we are sinners.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Romans three twenty three says all of sin and falling
short of the glory of God.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
Absolutely, So how do we if we're all sinners and
sinners go to hell? How is that going to work out?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Well, there needs to be somebody who's a mediary, somebody
who between you and the Father can vouch for you
or pay for the cost of sin.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
You have.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
In Matthew one twenty one, it says she will give
birth to a son, and you are to give him
the name Jesus because he will save his people from
their sins.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
I understand that, okay.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
And then you find in Hebrews five nine, and once
made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for
all who obey him. So you're starting to see kind
of a pattern here as to what that means. Acts
four twelve says salvation is found in no one else,
for there is no other name under heaven given to
(24:09):
mankind by which we must be saved. So imagine it
this way, Jason, that if you read that everyone needs
to go to jail, and then you read that everyone
needs to go to jail unless they have a million dollars.
(24:31):
That would automatically state that anyone with a million dollars
willing to pay it wouldn't go to jail. So the
sins that are done in life are sins against God.
All sins are sins against God. So God is the
one that sets the stakes. And because the justice of
sinning against a holy, righteous, and eternal God have to
(24:55):
be eternal by definition, that the only thing that can
pay for that would be something eternal as well. In
this case, it would be the holy and righteous, sinless
Lamb of God taking on the sins of the world
through the death and the Cross and resurrecting into glorified resurrection.
(25:17):
And to those who believe and accept that and live
for God, the payment is made on their behalf. To
those that reject God, don't believe you exists, don't care
once to do whatever they want, continue to live in
the pattern of sin without the acceptance of the redemption,
(25:38):
there is.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
None I see. Okay, that explains it to me a
little bit better than what it has been in the past.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Well, it's not always easy to comprehend it, in the
sense that when you put it in religious terms, but
when you put it in simple terms, imagine it this way.
If there was a judge. If you're a judge and
you're sitting on a panel to make a judgment, and
there is someone standing before you that has been proclaimed guilty,
(26:10):
and it happens to be your son, and you know
that he's guilty, and you know that you, as the
judge and righteously have to put upon him the greatest
fine because of the act in which he did. And
let's say it's ten thousand dollars. You would justly say
(26:33):
that he owes the court ten thousand dollars. But then
you might take off your robe, stop being the judge
for a moment, and be the father of that person,
and pay that ten thousand dollars. Therefore, justice is served,
justice is consistent, and it still stays righteous. But that
(26:58):
only would happen for those who are the child of
that judge. The judge didn't stop being a judge. The
jud judge didn't change the laws or any of those things.
The payment that has to be made is so great
that a man or a woman could not make it.
(27:21):
So the only way for that payment to be made
would be this bridge, this opportunity, this payment by way
of God himself, and people either accept that or reject it,
(27:41):
and by accepting it will be redeemed. By rejecting it, no,
they can't be redeemed. They continue to live in the
state of being sinful.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
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