October 20, 2024 • 30 mins
Is absence from church offensive to God
Feeling the presence of people that passed
When did Satan fall
Feeling the presence of people that passed
When did Satan fall
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You're listening to KFI A six forty on demand.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Tom, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi? How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I am well?
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Tom?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
How can I help you?
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I was baptized and raised in the Catholic Church, married
in the Luton Church, and then became an ordained elder
in the Presbyterian Church.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Oh my goodness, you can't stay put.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
However, I haven't attended regular worship services in over a decade.
Is my absence offensive to our Father?
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Oh? I?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Offensive is a fairly strong word and not the appropriate
word in this context.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Well, the last thing I do every evening before I
go to sleep is I have a conversation with both
you and our Father. And one of the things that
I do is ask for forgiveness. And being raised a Catholic,
I asked for forgiveness of my sins of comissions as
well as O mission.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Okay, all healthy, and.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Am I am I making? Am I creating a sin
of a mission by not attending a regular worship service
on Sundays? Even if both you and He are held
in my.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Heart, not in the way you think. I like the
way you put that though, that's actually a very beautiful
way to look at it from omitting church from your life?
Is that a sin of a mission? And I would
say no in this context, And I want you to
understand it in a broad sense that it's like saying,
is it a sin on your body to not eat well? Yes,
(01:34):
in one sense, it really is, because you're damaging you're
not being a good stewart, and you're damaging your body
in that sense. In your spiritual self, yes, you are
being negligent on feeding your spirit in a way that
you can't do by yourself. It says in scripture where
(01:54):
one where two or more of you are gathered in
my name, I am there as well, it says, do
not fort take the gathering of your brethren. So really
fellowship becomes an important part of that. Now, does it
have to be in a building with stained glass and
you know, some guy at the pulpit and all that. No,
not necessarily, But you need fellowship and you need to
consume and feed it. Every relationship in life, everything that's
(02:19):
living and breathing, everything that has life on this planet
does three things. Tom It eats, it sleeps, and it
gives waste. So relationships with God and everything like that
has to have the same thing. You need to eat,
you need to consume new things, learn, you need to rest,
(02:40):
You need to have time where you're quiet. Scripture says
be still and know that I'm God. So there's times
of quietness and rest. And it needs to get rid
of waste. So there has to be well, this is
what I'm doing. It's not productive, it's not beneficial. I
need to get rid of it my life. So in
this particular case of church, ah, I would like you
(03:00):
to find a church that feeds you and stick with it.
Not because it's a sin in the religious sense, but
because it's a sin in the theological sense of missing
the mark. The word sin means missing the mark. So
you're missing something that could be in your life, that
could be very beneficial to your life and could be
very productive, that you're not doing. For at least up
(03:22):
until this point in the conversation, you haven't explained to
me a good reason as to why you're not doing it.
Is there? A good reason?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Is not? And I suppose you've only reinforced what I
really knew to be true in my heart, or I
wouldn't have asked the question to begin with.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Absolutely, I will tell you one of this show should
be confirmation and not information. It should be going mm hmm.
And very rarely are you going to come across anything
too new, because you've got the thumb print of God
on your heart and you're talking to him too every day,
and so you should be hearing these things and you
(03:57):
should know that that's what God wants you to do.
And quite frankly, the church can be boring, can be dull.
You can come across bad pastors, bad groups whatever. You
can come across a really haughty church that is only
caught up in dress and attitude and look how many
books we've written, and look how big we are and
(04:18):
all these things. Or you know, a rebellious small church
who says, we're never going to grow because we don't
think that's of God, and we're just going to keep
it the ten of us and we're happy with that.
And you know, and on all sides you can get
different churches because humans are involved. But you get fed,
you go and you sit and it separates it. It's
(04:38):
like work, you know, there's something about getting up and
going to work every day. When you work at home,
it could be much more difficult to get motivated because
the effort changes. Not impossible, but the effort changes. And
so there's something about you getting up and going to church,
Tom that I think is productive unto itself, and it
(05:00):
shows dedication and people around you that you may not
even notice or noticing you go Wow. I noticed that
Tom leaves his house every Sunday at this time, and
I wonder if he's going to church, and they start
thinking about it, and then they start going. You know,
I haven't been to church in a long time or
these types of things, and that can only be experienced
(05:22):
by applying that or practicing that in your own life.
Does that make sense.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
On a personal note, I would like to thank you
for what you do and the thoughtful, intelligent general way
in which you approached the time that you spend with us.
I just found your show a few weeks ago, and frankly,
in the first thirty seconds I almost turned it off
because I was afraid it almost seemed blasphemous, but I
(05:50):
have it is such a thought provoking, inspirational show. I
want to thank you for the time that you spend
with us.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Well, most assuredly welcome Tom. That was very nice of
you to say, and I know you're calling from North Carolina,
and we welcome you, welcome everybody from across the country
to listen. But what you just said is the experience
that ninety nine percent of the listeners have had on
first listening and first blush. And so God bless you
(06:21):
for taking the time to listen a little longer and
give the show a little more of your attention to
understand what's really going on and that it's not what
it may seem to be at first blush. Gary, Welcome
(06:41):
to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
Yes, Hi, my best friend passed away about three years ago. Sorry,
I was just wondering.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
What scripture says, because I mean, I feel his presence
around me every day, and I was just wondering how
scripture translates when you pass away.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
Does your soul go to Heaven right away?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Or do you stay on earth until a second coming?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Well, there's of course, our Catholic brothers and sisters believe
in purgatory. Protestant Protestant brothers and sisters do not, and
mostly and there is discussion within the church, most certainly
as to when that takes place. I will say, in scripture,
(07:28):
it seems clear when you read things like Hebrews nine
twenty seven, saying, and inasmuch as it is appointed for
men to die once and after this the judgment, so
that's immediate. It's also said by Paul, to be absent
from the body is to be present with the Lord.
Now having said these things, there is nowhere in scripture
(07:50):
that talks about spirits lingering on this earth. Nowhere. As
a matter of fact, it condemns people trying to commune
with them or have relationships with people who have passed on.
I know it's very human to miss somebody or to
want them to still be around or to feel their energy,
but really that comes from selfishness and the selfish desire
(08:10):
to still have somebody here on earth, rather than to
go on and to graduate into heaven and on to
heaven and the things dealing with God. It's not about
this earth, Gary, it never was. This is a part
of the plan, but it isn't the whole plan. And
to get wrapped up with, well, the person is still here.
(08:33):
It's lovely and I think it's a very honest emotion,
but there's nothing that substantiates that from the Christian point
of view that would say that's what's taking place. You
have to trust that God is way ahead of you
on all the aspects of this, and that whatever it
should be has already been accomplished, and that there isn't
(08:57):
like somebody wandering this earth for some reason or looking
over you in that sense, because that just doesn't really
fit the model of Scripture.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Well, I'm glad that you called. I know that's not
always the fun way to hear it. I know there's
some kind of Hollywood sex appeal on one side, and
then on the other side, a genuine hurt that manufactures
the desire to think, well, they're dead, but they're not
really dead and they so there's this kind of kind
(09:30):
of half ground where they can still communicate with you
and all of these things. And Scripture is very clear
about that, not to try and communicate with the dead,
not to have relationships with the dead, because quite frankly,
among other problems, you're the dead have moved on. Have
you ever seen like a a mother and a father
(09:53):
can do this as well, but I think you see
mothers do it more often than not. Then comparing it
to to men, well want to hold back their children
like oh I love when he's so cute or I
love that he's this small, or I love that he
wears these clothes, or I love that he's in this
you know class and not on into college yet, and
(10:14):
all these things. Well, that that desire to hold them
back is a very human one. But unless you've got
big issues, you wouldn't really hold them back. You want
them to grow and move on. You want them to graduate,
you want them to move out, you want them to
explore and to grow. That's the healthy thing to do.
The emotional thing is, well, I want to stunt it.
(10:34):
I want them to I miss them breastfeeding, or I
miss them on nuzzling up to me, I miss cuddling
with them, I miss doing all these things. Now, that's
very real and human. But to continue that would be weird,
it would It would pervert the process or pollute the
process in a way that's not healthy. Likewise, when someone dies,
(10:57):
they're graduating going on to be with God. That is
one's hope, right, that is one's purpose and focus and hope.
Otherwise you wouldn't be asking the question. So if that
is the desire, you wouldn't want to pull them back
from that graduation because that becomes stilted and that becomes
polluted and perverted and trying to skew the balance, the
(11:20):
true balance of things, and that comes from the goofy
fake psychics and wanting to be able to builk your
money out by telling you they can talk to the dead,
which is preying on your own emotional loss, which is vulgar.
But the reality is, the beauty of it is you
want them to move on, you want them to graduate,
and you want them to be in the presence of God. Brian,
(11:44):
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
Yes, hello, Hi.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I was wondering your thoughts on exactly when did Satan
paul exactly because in Genesis it says that godfred the
earth the six days and the rest of the seventh,
but he also said that during that creation process everything
was good. So just wondering when exactly your thoughts on
when when did Satan fall fight the New World Order?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Well, and will I fight the New World Order?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
So we need to stop the New World Order?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Oh that's a concern of yours. The band, Well, okay,
it seems kind of like a narrow focus. The band
just trying to make some music the but dealing with
the fall of Satan first, keep in mind that the
fall would take place after that, because the words there
told me in the Hebrew is that it was everything
(12:34):
was good, and therefore everything was good. You can parse
that down a little bit more because you know that
the angels were created Job thirty eight four through seven
were created before the earth, so that leaves that out
that Satan had fallen at that time.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
And then.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
You know in Genesis three one through fourteen that Satan
had to fall before he tempted Adam and Eve in
the garden. So therefore that puts the fall somewhere between
creation and the temptation. Now, there's nothing in scripture that
(13:17):
says that it was, you know, an hour before Satan fell,
an hour before the temptation in the garden, or anything
like that. There's no way of seeing that. Therefore it's
not in scripture. And as far as the poor band,
my goodness, leave them alone, just trying to make some
music might not be a cup of tea, but it's
(13:38):
just music.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Art.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
Yeah, and I was wanted to get bought some There's
a lot of people all over this planet that are
God's kids. God knows they're his kids. They'll be in heaven.
But they're sick and tire of organized religion. They've turned
into to drug addicts, alcoholics, and who knows what all else,
just because they're they're sick and tired of this stuff.
But anyway, they're God's kids. And he called me to
(14:11):
reach people like that. And I've been trying to people
like that for a long time. But organize religion. They won't.
They won't give you right to church. And and I
just wanted to hear your thoughts on this, because Jesus
is the author and the finish of our faith.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Amen.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
And there's another scripture that says, as much as you've
done to the least of these my brothers, So if
you've done it, under me. And if you can't give
somebody to write a church, or give them some food,
or or help them out when they have a need,
even if even if they're a drug addict, alcoholic, whatever,
and uh, the church's job is to go out there
and to help and find God's kids. And what what's
with this?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Well, there's more to it than that.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Now.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Now, I know that it's easy to say organize religion,
but you have two choices too. Did participate in organize
religion or to participate in disorganized religion. Those are your
only two choices. And there are people what.
Speaker 5 (14:57):
About just being caused God's.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Kid, Well you can't. What do you do as your
parents kid? Does that mean you just sit and watch
TV or do what you want? Or is there a
participatory action there?
Speaker 5 (15:08):
No, I hear what you're saying. But what I'm what
I'm saying though, is I know people right now they
will not go to church. They're sick and tired of church,
and but they love the Lord, they live according to
those principles.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
No, because he calls them to go to church. So
that's not true art.
Speaker 5 (15:23):
No, they could they call he calls us to forsake,
not dissembling ourselves together.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yes, and he says we're two or more gathered. I
am there as well. But it's but there's we have
but art, Okay, then it's then it's then it's organized.
Now you're part of an organized religion. You just you
just don't want to be structured art. There's a difference
if you want if you want to be rebellious against
the church, I understand. I know a lot of good
(15:50):
people that are rebellious against the church. But don't try
and use semantics and don't try and use rhetoric to
get away from what you're doing. All you're doing is
trying to build your own church. And you know what, Yes,
that's all you're doing. ART.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
No, I want to take I wanted to take some
people to church.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
What church organized? One?
Speaker 5 (16:12):
They need to go to church?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I mean, okay, so you're saying that you're upset the
right and so you're saying ART. So there's a problem
that the there's not a church transit system. Is that
your problem? Okay, Well, I'm sorry. The church can't do everything,
not everything, and sometimes somebody working hard enough to get
(16:35):
themselves to church is part of the strength building building
that God wants in their life. I think it's a wonderful,
wonderful thing that you do at taking people to church.
But you got to talk to these people. You got
to find out why they're drug addicts and why they're
drinking and the things the other problems that are that
are lying there, and if you're helping them or hindering them.
(16:58):
You know, people look to the church for everything and
want to give them nothing. They don't want to volunteer,
they don't want to tithe. They don't want to do
any of these things. And yes, we already covered the
tithing is not a New Testament principle, but giving to
the church is. So you want to take from the
church constantly. You want the pastor to be on twenty
four to seven call with every person with every problem
(17:21):
they have, with every issue, at every hour of the night.
They want to be able to wake up and go
into church whenever they want. They hate the fact that
it's got an eight o'clock service in the morning and
then at ten o'clock service because that doesn't work with
my schedule. That's too far. The parking's bad, that all
of these things, and then people just go and pick
on the concept of organized church. Well, nothing you do
(17:42):
is going to be of value unless it's organized nothing,
And that's ridiculous. I'm tired of going to one of
those organized restaurants with their menus, their lists that tell
you what's going to be paid, and tell you what
door you go in to sit down and then tell
(18:03):
you where to order and then you know, tell you
what food's going to show up at your table. No,
I want you to go to a disorganized restaurant that's
open on the hours at once, that serves the food
at once, that may serve you. May not go to
that place and tell me how wonderful it is. I
don't understand that rebellion. That is something that has been planted.
(18:23):
That seed has been planted in your brain by people
who are lazy and people that don't want to participate
and be accountable to something, so they choose to refer
to it, to demonize it and make it organized religion. Yes,
there's going to be problems. Anything that's run by humans
is going to have problems, but you can't just throw
(18:45):
the entirety of it out. It has great value and
productivity and help. And know they can't help everybody, And
know they can't pick everybody up and bring them to church.
That's what all they say is, that's what you've got
to do. Get here and will help you. It's wonderful
what you're doing are but don't miss the big picture. Seth,
(19:09):
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Hi Jesus, thank you for what you did for me
and what you do for me every day. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Oh you are certainly welcome. How can I help you today? Seth?
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Okay, Well, I just wanted to make a point. Get
your comment. I grew up in a Jewish home, and oh,
my relatives celebrated all the holidays and went to Hebrew School,
et cetera, by Minca, and I became a believer later
in life. And one thing that really helped me was
seeing the incredible continuity between the Old and New Testament.
(19:41):
And my wife and I got at some people that
they were home churching, but they what they did was
they celebrated all the Jewish feasts or holidays, like you know,
young Kipur and and they felt that was the right
thing to do versus the traditional Christian holidays. But what
(20:02):
what it pointed out to me was that, you know,
it's just it's just magnificent what God, how God connected
what he told the Israelites to do to celebrate these
feasts and the holidays, and how they point to you,
especially the Passover. And you know, I talked to my
Jewish relatives about what the Passover means in terms of
of Jesus and what and what you did on the cross,
(20:24):
et cetera. And and also the Christians too, and I
sort of get you know, uh uh, it's like they
don't make the connection. I just I was just wondering,
do you think it would be useful for churches to
maybe stress stress the Jewish feasts more and show how
they connect with what happened in the New Testament.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Ab Absolutely. I think it's one of those things that
if you sit down and uh for Russia Shanam Kapoor
or You're you're experiencing those meals and the stories behind
those meals. Our Jewish brothers and sisters are so beautiful
in the way that they when you see the children
(21:06):
reading at the table and explaining what the different settings
are there for and what the different foods are on
the table for. It is amazing and a very powerful
tool for teaching and understanding that unfortunately is left at
the doorway of Christianity in a lot of ways. Now,
it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. There are some groups
(21:29):
that Christian groups that do experience them. Unfortunately, I think
gets tossed up in some politics. If you hold on
for just a second, Seth, I want to chat with
you some more. We're just going to take a really
quick commercial break and then we'll chat. We're chatting with Seth.
(21:49):
You there, Seth, Yes, thank you so much for hanging
on talking about you are a Jewish believer. And I
know that a lot of these terms can be offensive
to our Jewish brothers and sisters that go, oh, you know,
messianic jew some people say fulfilled you. All these things
they can be offensive and they're not meant to be.
You're merely somebody who is Jewish and was born and
(22:12):
raised and converted to Christianity, or believe more appropriately, that
Jesus Christ is the Messiah spoken about in the Torah
and along the prophets correct.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
To me, Jesus, it's like it's like reading half a
book and not wanting to read the other half. To me,
it just it completes the whole thing and makes no
that's you know, you get to the end and oh
that's everything ties together. And to me, that's what it
all means.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
And you know, the.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
I really think that if if I know this, I'm
sure there are Jewish people living listening to your broadcast.
And absolutely, I mean the things that are in the
Jewish traditions that people don't even understand and what they
why they're doing it. I just like when you realize
what they mean, it's just like amazing and it strikes
(23:07):
me is like, wow, that's cool, you know, like for example,
real quick, I'll give you if I give you one example.
You know how in part of the Passover Sadr, they
take three pieces of matza or unloved bread and put
them between some napkins, and at one point, whoever's leaving
the satar hides the middle matsa and usually one of
(23:29):
the children at the service will who finds it gets
a reward like a dollar or whatever. And then at
the end of the service, the last thing you eat
after the dinner is a piece of that middle masa.
And that's such a beautiful picture of the three mansas,
the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The middle
masa is the Son, who's who's hidden, who's buried, and
(23:52):
then when he's rediscovered, that's the resurrection. And and everybody,
everybody takes takes some of that in as the feeling
of the spirit. It's just to me, it's unbelievable. And people,
you know, you tell people about that, to me, to me,
not to get excited about that. It's just got to
(24:13):
be you have to be really, really well.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
The beauty of it is that that's lost on Christianity
and Now you people refer to the Judeo Christian presupts
and understandings and and everything like that. This show we
try and focus on the Jewish roots of Christianity. It's imperative.
It's you can't separate, separate me from my Judaism. If
(24:39):
you do, then you miss the picture of who I am.
This kind of cocazoid Jesus that you see all the time,
with the blonde hair and the blue eyes and all
of that really causes a lot of problems with people's
understanding of Christianity, truly Christians and their understanding. And hopefully
on this show we focus on the total picture. And
(24:59):
one of those things that you brought up with your call,
Seth and is the food aspect of it. The beauty
of the feasts are wonderful. Now, Christianity is not bound
by any religious kosher laws or food laws. It says
in scripture that you can eat what you wish as
long as it's good for the body and that you
(25:21):
give glory to God. So there aren't any kosher laws
or anything like that. However, the Jews are no dummy.
The kosher laws and the brilliance of the food and
the importance of the food and all of that is
lost on Christians unfortunately. And even the beauty of you know,
(25:42):
the Passover meal or the Hagadah are the sharing of
stories about the food and what the food means. You
remember as growing up a young Jewish boy sitting at
the Passover table and being asked, why is this night
different from all other nights?
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Correct?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
And then the story begins as to why it's different.
And I think that's why Judaism is so cohesive and
it's such a beautiful belief system and a heritage that
continues to be passed on is because of the dedication
to those things, the meals and the explanation of what
those meals mean. And you know, I speaking to a
(26:22):
Jewish brother not too long ago, he joked about the
Jewish feasts, saying, all the feasts are the same. It's
like people treated us bad. We overcame it, let's see.
And there's more to it than that. There's really beautiful
things in the wine and the lighting of the candles,
and the purpose of all the food, and even the games,
(26:42):
the hiding of it and the playing of games is
such a beautiful way to teach children and to remind
the adults at the table of the importance of that
meal and giving. You know, Christians often go, you know,
God is good, God is great, let us appreciate the food.
We just ate whatever they It's a real quick prayer
or you know, a really bellowy long prayer, and it
(27:06):
doesn't always have the deep meaning that when you're reminded
of the bidders or the things that are at the
table and why they're there. And I wish more of
that was in Christianity. I think that a long line
in the history to try and stand out and show
the growth of the separation be between the belief systems
(27:29):
that a lot of that was lost and was felt that, oh,
we're just perpetuating Judaism when we're trying to perpetuate Christianity,
which is merely Christianity coming from the word Christos, coming
from the word mashiak that means Messiah. It's truly Christians
are those that follow the Messiah. Then why aren't those
(27:51):
things more part of it? And this is where you
come in set. This is where you know, smaller churches
or churches can start bringing those things in in that
Jewish culture and that understanding and the beauty of the
feasts and understanding those foods of faith and how they
play a part in it would be an amazing thing,
(28:11):
an amazing thing. So I think it's great if you
still participate in them, and that you encourage others and
teach what you know about them as well.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
Well said, and I appreciate all you're doing and your
attitude about that. I think it's definitely a beautiful and
also it brings, you know, it brings Jews and Christians
closer and helps us understand, you know that really we're
on the same team.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Absolutely, and I know that that frustrates as some people
on both sides, and there's confusion. But I think once
when you open the scriptures and you see them in
the harmony as they stand together, it's different than anything else.
And the beauty and the impact and the history of
it all is very telling as to the love of
(28:56):
this God, as to remind that that this God is
a god, this God is one. And I'm so glad
that you've found that, Seth, and that you have been
a great advocate this morning to share that with other people,
to remind people about the beauty of the food and
the feasts and the traditions that are there, and I
(29:18):
hope that this encourages Christians to participate in that and
to read up. But I thank you so much for
your call, Seth. We've talked about food on the program before.
We've talked about, you know, my producer being a big
fan of cooking, and the importance of foods of faith
and the importance of those things and the foods from scriptures.
(29:38):
Scripture talks about a lot of spices, a lot of herbs,
a lot of different types of foods. As I think
that's something that's that's lost on Christians a lot of time.
The beauty and the history are Jewish brothers and sisters
and the feasts that went along that are great reminders
of those things. I appreciate that you spend your with me.
(30:00):
I hope you'll continue to spend your Sundays with me.
As we are here every single Sunday, same time, same place.
Life does get rough, but above all the craziness, remember
these simple words. I am with you always.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
KFI AM six forty on demand
You're listening to KFI A six forty on demand.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Tom, Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi? How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I am well?
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Tom?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
How can I help you?
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I was baptized and raised in the Catholic Church, married
in the Luton Church, and then became an ordained elder
in the Presbyterian Church.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Oh my goodness, you can't stay put.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
However, I haven't attended regular worship services in over a decade.
Is my absence offensive to our Father?
Speaker 4 (00:33):
Oh? I?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Offensive is a fairly strong word and not the appropriate
word in this context.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Well, the last thing I do every evening before I
go to sleep is I have a conversation with both
you and our Father. And one of the things that
I do is ask for forgiveness. And being raised a Catholic,
I asked for forgiveness of my sins of comissions as
well as O mission.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Okay, all healthy, and.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Am I am I making? Am I creating a sin
of a mission by not attending a regular worship service
on Sundays? Even if both you and He are held
in my.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Heart, not in the way you think. I like the
way you put that though, that's actually a very beautiful
way to look at it from omitting church from your life?
Is that a sin of a mission? And I would
say no in this context, And I want you to
understand it in a broad sense that it's like saying,
is it a sin on your body to not eat well? Yes,
(01:34):
in one sense, it really is, because you're damaging you're
not being a good stewart, and you're damaging your body
in that sense. In your spiritual self, yes, you are
being negligent on feeding your spirit in a way that
you can't do by yourself. It says in scripture where
(01:54):
one where two or more of you are gathered in
my name, I am there as well, it says, do
not fort take the gathering of your brethren. So really
fellowship becomes an important part of that. Now, does it
have to be in a building with stained glass and
you know, some guy at the pulpit and all that. No,
not necessarily, But you need fellowship and you need to
consume and feed it. Every relationship in life, everything that's
(02:19):
living and breathing, everything that has life on this planet
does three things. Tom It eats, it sleeps, and it
gives waste. So relationships with God and everything like that
has to have the same thing. You need to eat,
you need to consume new things, learn, you need to rest,
(02:40):
You need to have time where you're quiet. Scripture says
be still and know that I'm God. So there's times
of quietness and rest. And it needs to get rid
of waste. So there has to be well, this is
what I'm doing. It's not productive, it's not beneficial. I
need to get rid of it my life. So in
this particular case of church, ah, I would like you
(03:00):
to find a church that feeds you and stick with it.
Not because it's a sin in the religious sense, but
because it's a sin in the theological sense of missing
the mark. The word sin means missing the mark. So
you're missing something that could be in your life, that
could be very beneficial to your life and could be
very productive, that you're not doing. For at least up
(03:22):
until this point in the conversation, you haven't explained to
me a good reason as to why you're not doing it.
Is there? A good reason?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Is not? And I suppose you've only reinforced what I
really knew to be true in my heart, or I
wouldn't have asked the question to begin with.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Absolutely, I will tell you one of this show should
be confirmation and not information. It should be going mm hmm.
And very rarely are you going to come across anything
too new, because you've got the thumb print of God
on your heart and you're talking to him too every day,
and so you should be hearing these things and you
(03:57):
should know that that's what God wants you to do.
And quite frankly, the church can be boring, can be dull.
You can come across bad pastors, bad groups whatever. You
can come across a really haughty church that is only
caught up in dress and attitude and look how many
books we've written, and look how big we are and
(04:18):
all these things. Or you know, a rebellious small church
who says, we're never going to grow because we don't
think that's of God, and we're just going to keep
it the ten of us and we're happy with that.
And you know, and on all sides you can get
different churches because humans are involved. But you get fed,
you go and you sit and it separates it. It's
(04:38):
like work, you know, there's something about getting up and
going to work every day. When you work at home,
it could be much more difficult to get motivated because
the effort changes. Not impossible, but the effort changes. And
so there's something about you getting up and going to church,
Tom that I think is productive unto itself, and it
(05:00):
shows dedication and people around you that you may not
even notice or noticing you go Wow. I noticed that
Tom leaves his house every Sunday at this time, and
I wonder if he's going to church, and they start
thinking about it, and then they start going. You know,
I haven't been to church in a long time or
these types of things, and that can only be experienced
(05:22):
by applying that or practicing that in your own life.
Does that make sense.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
On a personal note, I would like to thank you
for what you do and the thoughtful, intelligent general way
in which you approached the time that you spend with us.
I just found your show a few weeks ago, and frankly,
in the first thirty seconds I almost turned it off
because I was afraid it almost seemed blasphemous, but I
(05:50):
have it is such a thought provoking, inspirational show. I
want to thank you for the time that you spend
with us.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Well, most assuredly welcome Tom. That was very nice of
you to say, and I know you're calling from North Carolina,
and we welcome you, welcome everybody from across the country
to listen. But what you just said is the experience
that ninety nine percent of the listeners have had on
first listening and first blush. And so God bless you
(06:21):
for taking the time to listen a little longer and
give the show a little more of your attention to
understand what's really going on and that it's not what
it may seem to be at first blush. Gary, Welcome
(06:41):
to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 5 (06:43):
Yes, Hi, my best friend passed away about three years ago. Sorry,
I was just wondering.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
What scripture says, because I mean, I feel his presence
around me every day, and I was just wondering how
scripture translates when you pass away.
Speaker 5 (07:01):
Does your soul go to Heaven right away?
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Or do you stay on earth until a second coming?
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Well, there's of course, our Catholic brothers and sisters believe
in purgatory. Protestant Protestant brothers and sisters do not, and
mostly and there is discussion within the church, most certainly
as to when that takes place. I will say, in scripture,
(07:28):
it seems clear when you read things like Hebrews nine
twenty seven, saying, and inasmuch as it is appointed for
men to die once and after this the judgment, so
that's immediate. It's also said by Paul, to be absent
from the body is to be present with the Lord.
Now having said these things, there is nowhere in scripture
(07:50):
that talks about spirits lingering on this earth. Nowhere. As
a matter of fact, it condemns people trying to commune
with them or have relationships with people who have passed on.
I know it's very human to miss somebody or to
want them to still be around or to feel their energy,
but really that comes from selfishness and the selfish desire
(08:10):
to still have somebody here on earth, rather than to
go on and to graduate into heaven and on to
heaven and the things dealing with God. It's not about
this earth, Gary, it never was. This is a part
of the plan, but it isn't the whole plan. And
to get wrapped up with, well, the person is still here.
(08:33):
It's lovely and I think it's a very honest emotion,
but there's nothing that substantiates that from the Christian point
of view that would say that's what's taking place. You
have to trust that God is way ahead of you
on all the aspects of this, and that whatever it
should be has already been accomplished, and that there isn't
(08:57):
like somebody wandering this earth for some reason or looking
over you in that sense, because that just doesn't really
fit the model of Scripture.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Well, I'm glad that you called. I know that's not
always the fun way to hear it. I know there's
some kind of Hollywood sex appeal on one side, and
then on the other side, a genuine hurt that manufactures
the desire to think, well, they're dead, but they're not
really dead and they so there's this kind of kind
(09:30):
of half ground where they can still communicate with you
and all of these things. And Scripture is very clear
about that, not to try and communicate with the dead,
not to have relationships with the dead, because quite frankly,
among other problems, you're the dead have moved on. Have
you ever seen like a a mother and a father
(09:53):
can do this as well, but I think you see
mothers do it more often than not. Then comparing it
to to men, well want to hold back their children
like oh I love when he's so cute or I
love that he's this small, or I love that he
wears these clothes, or I love that he's in this
you know class and not on into college yet, and
(10:14):
all these things. Well, that that desire to hold them
back is a very human one. But unless you've got
big issues, you wouldn't really hold them back. You want
them to grow and move on. You want them to graduate,
you want them to move out, you want them to
explore and to grow. That's the healthy thing to do.
The emotional thing is, well, I want to stunt it.
(10:34):
I want them to I miss them breastfeeding, or I
miss them on nuzzling up to me, I miss cuddling
with them, I miss doing all these things. Now, that's
very real and human. But to continue that would be weird,
it would It would pervert the process or pollute the
process in a way that's not healthy. Likewise, when someone dies,
(10:57):
they're graduating going on to be with God. That is
one's hope, right, that is one's purpose and focus and hope.
Otherwise you wouldn't be asking the question. So if that
is the desire, you wouldn't want to pull them back
from that graduation because that becomes stilted and that becomes
polluted and perverted and trying to skew the balance, the
(11:20):
true balance of things, and that comes from the goofy
fake psychics and wanting to be able to builk your
money out by telling you they can talk to the dead,
which is preying on your own emotional loss, which is vulgar.
But the reality is, the beauty of it is you
want them to move on, you want them to graduate,
and you want them to be in the presence of God. Brian,
(11:44):
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
Yes, hello, Hi.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I was wondering your thoughts on exactly when did Satan
paul exactly because in Genesis it says that godfred the
earth the six days and the rest of the seventh,
but he also said that during that creation process everything
was good. So just wondering when exactly your thoughts on
when when did Satan fall fight the New World Order?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Well, and will I fight the New World Order?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
So we need to stop the New World Order?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Oh that's a concern of yours. The band, Well, okay,
it seems kind of like a narrow focus. The band
just trying to make some music the but dealing with
the fall of Satan first, keep in mind that the
fall would take place after that, because the words there
told me in the Hebrew is that it was everything
(12:34):
was good, and therefore everything was good. You can parse
that down a little bit more because you know that
the angels were created Job thirty eight four through seven
were created before the earth, so that leaves that out
that Satan had fallen at that time.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
And then.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
You know in Genesis three one through fourteen that Satan
had to fall before he tempted Adam and Eve in
the garden. So therefore that puts the fall somewhere between
creation and the temptation. Now, there's nothing in scripture that
(13:17):
says that it was, you know, an hour before Satan fell,
an hour before the temptation in the garden, or anything
like that. There's no way of seeing that. Therefore it's
not in scripture. And as far as the poor band,
my goodness, leave them alone, just trying to make some
music might not be a cup of tea, but it's
(13:38):
just music.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Art.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
Yeah, and I was wanted to get bought some There's
a lot of people all over this planet that are
God's kids. God knows they're his kids. They'll be in heaven.
But they're sick and tire of organized religion. They've turned
into to drug addicts, alcoholics, and who knows what all else,
just because they're they're sick and tired of this stuff.
But anyway, they're God's kids. And he called me to
(14:11):
reach people like that. And I've been trying to people
like that for a long time. But organize religion. They won't.
They won't give you right to church. And and I
just wanted to hear your thoughts on this, because Jesus
is the author and the finish of our faith.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Amen.
Speaker 5 (14:24):
And there's another scripture that says, as much as you've
done to the least of these my brothers, So if
you've done it, under me. And if you can't give
somebody to write a church, or give them some food,
or or help them out when they have a need,
even if even if they're a drug addict, alcoholic, whatever,
and uh, the church's job is to go out there
and to help and find God's kids. And what what's
with this?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Well, there's more to it than that.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Now.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Now, I know that it's easy to say organize religion,
but you have two choices too. Did participate in organize
religion or to participate in disorganized religion. Those are your
only two choices. And there are people what.
Speaker 5 (14:57):
About just being caused God's.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Kid, Well you can't. What do you do as your
parents kid? Does that mean you just sit and watch
TV or do what you want? Or is there a
participatory action there?
Speaker 5 (15:08):
No, I hear what you're saying. But what I'm what
I'm saying though, is I know people right now they
will not go to church. They're sick and tired of church,
and but they love the Lord, they live according to
those principles.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
No, because he calls them to go to church. So
that's not true art.
Speaker 5 (15:23):
No, they could they call he calls us to forsake,
not dissembling ourselves together.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yes, and he says we're two or more gathered. I
am there as well. But it's but there's we have
but art, Okay, then it's then it's then it's organized.
Now you're part of an organized religion. You just you
just don't want to be structured art. There's a difference
if you want if you want to be rebellious against
the church, I understand. I know a lot of good
(15:50):
people that are rebellious against the church. But don't try
and use semantics and don't try and use rhetoric to
get away from what you're doing. All you're doing is
trying to build your own church. And you know what, Yes,
that's all you're doing. ART.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
No, I want to take I wanted to take some
people to church.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
What church organized? One?
Speaker 5 (16:12):
They need to go to church?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I mean, okay, so you're saying that you're upset the
right and so you're saying ART. So there's a problem
that the there's not a church transit system. Is that
your problem? Okay, Well, I'm sorry. The church can't do everything,
not everything, and sometimes somebody working hard enough to get
(16:35):
themselves to church is part of the strength building building
that God wants in their life. I think it's a wonderful,
wonderful thing that you do at taking people to church.
But you got to talk to these people. You got
to find out why they're drug addicts and why they're
drinking and the things the other problems that are that
are lying there, and if you're helping them or hindering them.
(16:58):
You know, people look to the church for everything and
want to give them nothing. They don't want to volunteer,
they don't want to tithe. They don't want to do
any of these things. And yes, we already covered the
tithing is not a New Testament principle, but giving to
the church is. So you want to take from the
church constantly. You want the pastor to be on twenty
four to seven call with every person with every problem
(17:21):
they have, with every issue, at every hour of the night.
They want to be able to wake up and go
into church whenever they want. They hate the fact that
it's got an eight o'clock service in the morning and
then at ten o'clock service because that doesn't work with
my schedule. That's too far. The parking's bad, that all
of these things, and then people just go and pick
on the concept of organized church. Well, nothing you do
(17:42):
is going to be of value unless it's organized nothing,
And that's ridiculous. I'm tired of going to one of
those organized restaurants with their menus, their lists that tell
you what's going to be paid, and tell you what
door you go in to sit down and then tell
(18:03):
you where to order and then you know, tell you
what food's going to show up at your table. No,
I want you to go to a disorganized restaurant that's
open on the hours at once, that serves the food
at once, that may serve you. May not go to
that place and tell me how wonderful it is. I
don't understand that rebellion. That is something that has been planted.
(18:23):
That seed has been planted in your brain by people
who are lazy and people that don't want to participate
and be accountable to something, so they choose to refer
to it, to demonize it and make it organized religion. Yes,
there's going to be problems. Anything that's run by humans
is going to have problems, but you can't just throw
(18:45):
the entirety of it out. It has great value and
productivity and help. And know they can't help everybody, And
know they can't pick everybody up and bring them to church.
That's what all they say is, that's what you've got
to do. Get here and will help you. It's wonderful
what you're doing are but don't miss the big picture. Seth,
(19:09):
Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Hi Jesus, thank you for what you did for me
and what you do for me every day. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Oh you are certainly welcome. How can I help you today? Seth?
Speaker 4 (19:20):
Okay, Well, I just wanted to make a point. Get
your comment. I grew up in a Jewish home, and oh,
my relatives celebrated all the holidays and went to Hebrew School,
et cetera, by Minca, and I became a believer later
in life. And one thing that really helped me was
seeing the incredible continuity between the Old and New Testament.
(19:41):
And my wife and I got at some people that
they were home churching, but they what they did was
they celebrated all the Jewish feasts or holidays, like you know,
young Kipur and and they felt that was the right
thing to do versus the traditional Christian holidays. But what
(20:02):
what it pointed out to me was that, you know,
it's just it's just magnificent what God, how God connected
what he told the Israelites to do to celebrate these
feasts and the holidays, and how they point to you,
especially the Passover. And you know, I talked to my
Jewish relatives about what the Passover means in terms of
of Jesus and what and what you did on the cross,
(20:24):
et cetera. And and also the Christians too, and I
sort of get you know, uh uh, it's like they
don't make the connection. I just I was just wondering,
do you think it would be useful for churches to
maybe stress stress the Jewish feasts more and show how
they connect with what happened in the New Testament.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Ab Absolutely. I think it's one of those things that
if you sit down and uh for Russia Shanam Kapoor
or You're you're experiencing those meals and the stories behind
those meals. Our Jewish brothers and sisters are so beautiful
in the way that they when you see the children
(21:06):
reading at the table and explaining what the different settings
are there for and what the different foods are on
the table for. It is amazing and a very powerful
tool for teaching and understanding that unfortunately is left at
the doorway of Christianity in a lot of ways. Now,
it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. There are some groups
(21:29):
that Christian groups that do experience them. Unfortunately, I think
gets tossed up in some politics. If you hold on
for just a second, Seth, I want to chat with
you some more. We're just going to take a really
quick commercial break and then we'll chat. We're chatting with Seth.
(21:49):
You there, Seth, Yes, thank you so much for hanging
on talking about you are a Jewish believer. And I
know that a lot of these terms can be offensive
to our Jewish brothers and sisters that go, oh, you know,
messianic jew some people say fulfilled you. All these things
they can be offensive and they're not meant to be.
You're merely somebody who is Jewish and was born and
(22:12):
raised and converted to Christianity, or believe more appropriately, that
Jesus Christ is the Messiah spoken about in the Torah
and along the prophets correct.
Speaker 4 (22:27):
To me, Jesus, it's like it's like reading half a
book and not wanting to read the other half. To me,
it just it completes the whole thing and makes no
that's you know, you get to the end and oh
that's everything ties together. And to me, that's what it
all means.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
And you know, the.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
I really think that if if I know this, I'm
sure there are Jewish people living listening to your broadcast.
And absolutely, I mean the things that are in the
Jewish traditions that people don't even understand and what they
why they're doing it. I just like when you realize
what they mean, it's just like amazing and it strikes
(23:07):
me is like, wow, that's cool, you know, like for example,
real quick, I'll give you if I give you one example.
You know how in part of the Passover Sadr, they
take three pieces of matza or unloved bread and put
them between some napkins, and at one point, whoever's leaving
the satar hides the middle matsa and usually one of
(23:29):
the children at the service will who finds it gets
a reward like a dollar or whatever. And then at
the end of the service, the last thing you eat
after the dinner is a piece of that middle masa.
And that's such a beautiful picture of the three mansas,
the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The middle
masa is the Son, who's who's hidden, who's buried, and
(23:52):
then when he's rediscovered, that's the resurrection. And and everybody,
everybody takes takes some of that in as the feeling
of the spirit. It's just to me, it's unbelievable. And people,
you know, you tell people about that, to me, to me,
not to get excited about that. It's just got to
(24:13):
be you have to be really, really well.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
The beauty of it is that that's lost on Christianity
and Now you people refer to the Judeo Christian presupts
and understandings and and everything like that. This show we
try and focus on the Jewish roots of Christianity. It's imperative.
It's you can't separate, separate me from my Judaism. If
(24:39):
you do, then you miss the picture of who I am.
This kind of cocazoid Jesus that you see all the time,
with the blonde hair and the blue eyes and all
of that really causes a lot of problems with people's
understanding of Christianity, truly Christians and their understanding. And hopefully
on this show we focus on the total picture. And
(24:59):
one of those things that you brought up with your call,
Seth and is the food aspect of it. The beauty
of the feasts are wonderful. Now, Christianity is not bound
by any religious kosher laws or food laws. It says
in scripture that you can eat what you wish as
long as it's good for the body and that you
(25:21):
give glory to God. So there aren't any kosher laws
or anything like that. However, the Jews are no dummy.
The kosher laws and the brilliance of the food and
the importance of the food and all of that is
lost on Christians unfortunately. And even the beauty of you know,
(25:42):
the Passover meal or the Hagadah are the sharing of
stories about the food and what the food means. You
remember as growing up a young Jewish boy sitting at
the Passover table and being asked, why is this night
different from all other nights?
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Correct?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
And then the story begins as to why it's different.
And I think that's why Judaism is so cohesive and
it's such a beautiful belief system and a heritage that
continues to be passed on is because of the dedication
to those things, the meals and the explanation of what
those meals mean. And you know, I speaking to a
(26:22):
Jewish brother not too long ago, he joked about the
Jewish feasts, saying, all the feasts are the same. It's
like people treated us bad. We overcame it, let's see.
And there's more to it than that. There's really beautiful
things in the wine and the lighting of the candles,
and the purpose of all the food, and even the games,
(26:42):
the hiding of it and the playing of games is
such a beautiful way to teach children and to remind
the adults at the table of the importance of that
meal and giving. You know, Christians often go, you know,
God is good, God is great, let us appreciate the food.
We just ate whatever they It's a real quick prayer
or you know, a really bellowy long prayer, and it
(27:06):
doesn't always have the deep meaning that when you're reminded
of the bidders or the things that are at the
table and why they're there. And I wish more of
that was in Christianity. I think that a long line
in the history to try and stand out and show
the growth of the separation be between the belief systems
(27:29):
that a lot of that was lost and was felt that, oh,
we're just perpetuating Judaism when we're trying to perpetuate Christianity,
which is merely Christianity coming from the word Christos, coming
from the word mashiak that means Messiah. It's truly Christians
are those that follow the Messiah. Then why aren't those
(27:51):
things more part of it? And this is where you
come in set. This is where you know, smaller churches
or churches can start bringing those things in in that
Jewish culture and that understanding and the beauty of the
feasts and understanding those foods of faith and how they
play a part in it would be an amazing thing,
(28:11):
an amazing thing. So I think it's great if you
still participate in them, and that you encourage others and
teach what you know about them as well.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
Well said, and I appreciate all you're doing and your
attitude about that. I think it's definitely a beautiful and
also it brings, you know, it brings Jews and Christians
closer and helps us understand, you know that really we're
on the same team.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Absolutely, and I know that that frustrates as some people
on both sides, and there's confusion. But I think once
when you open the scriptures and you see them in
the harmony as they stand together, it's different than anything else.
And the beauty and the impact and the history of
it all is very telling as to the love of
(28:56):
this God, as to remind that that this God is
a god, this God is one. And I'm so glad
that you've found that, Seth, and that you have been
a great advocate this morning to share that with other people,
to remind people about the beauty of the food and
the feasts and the traditions that are there, and I
(29:18):
hope that this encourages Christians to participate in that and
to read up. But I thank you so much for
your call, Seth. We've talked about food on the program before.
We've talked about, you know, my producer being a big
fan of cooking, and the importance of foods of faith
and the importance of those things and the foods from scriptures.
(29:38):
Scripture talks about a lot of spices, a lot of herbs,
a lot of different types of foods. As I think
that's something that's that's lost on Christians a lot of time.
The beauty and the history are Jewish brothers and sisters
and the feasts that went along that are great reminders
of those things. I appreciate that you spend your with me.
(30:00):
I hope you'll continue to spend your Sundays with me.
As we are here every single Sunday, same time, same place.
Life does get rough, but above all the craziness, remember
these simple words. I am with you always.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
KFI AM six forty on demand
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