October 7, 2024 • 7 mins
Amy talks with Environmental Health Legal Director & Senior Attorney for the Center of Biological Diversity Jonathan Evans about California enacting unprecedented restrictions on rat poisons in bid to protect wildlife.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Let's say good morning now to Jonathan Evans, who is
the long title Environmental Health Legal Director and Senior Attorney
for the Center for Biological Diversity. Good morning, Jonathan, Good morning.
So Governor Newsom has signed a first in the nation
law that restricts the use of blood thinning rat poison.
So before we talk about how the law is going
(00:23):
to work moving forward, I want to back up a
little bit. Can you tell us how long these rat
poisons have been around, what they do and why the
band because they do actually kill rats.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
They do kill rats, but they also unintentionally kill a
lot of other things, a lot of upper level predators
that are higher in the city chain to eat these
rats and mice, and these products have been on the
market in California and throughout the US for decades. Most
people don't realize that when they have a rodent problem
and go to the store to buy a rat poison
(00:54):
or call an extermator to use rat poison, so it
can have a horrible effect on wildlife and even pose
their risk to their pets and family. That's because, as
we talked about, these rat poisons don't just harm rodents,
they can actually unintentionally poison other living things to consume
the poison or the poison rodents, and this issue is widespread,
from bald eagles and barnels to black bears and bobcats.
(01:16):
Predenticides are poisoning and killing wildlife, so restrictions on these
blood fitting rat poisons, also known as anti coagulant predenticides,
help prevent slow, painful poisonings that literally cause animals to
bleed to death from the inside out and also lead
to other host of issues like disease and organ failure.
Wildlife just becomes so sick that they are unable to
(01:37):
find the food or other predators or to avoid predators,
and these blood fitting rat poisons are one of the
main factors that are driving mountain lions in southern California
to extinction. And we all remember the iconic Griffith Park
mountain line p. Twenty two that was exposed to redenticide
that contributed to mange, leading to ill health and eventual death.
(01:57):
And data from the California Department of Ficient wille life
and research specialists have found that over ninety five percent
of mountain lions that are tested in California have been
exposed at these anacawagon or denticides, so it's crucial to
get them out of a food chain. And the Poison
Free Wildlife Act, which is what Governor Newsom signed, is
now the third bill that we at the Center for
Biological Diversity had worked to pass in the past four
(02:19):
years past four years that places restrictions on all of
the blood sending rat poisons in California. So we really
are doing taking great steps to get these off the
market from consumers and residential uses. There are exceptions for
agriculture and public health, but we really takes it. It
goes a long way to get the mopic store shelves
for consumers.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Okay, So Jonathan, I want to just dig a little
deeper on that so that it's not mountain lions aren't
eating rats right.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Now mountainin span but they also will eat coyotes, and
the coyotes will eat the rats and the mice. They
can't bobcats. Bobcats are widely exposed at the same level
as mountain lions. But these things I accumulate as they
get in the food chain, they become even more powerful.
So some of these products they're called one feed killed
Blood Center. So essentially the rat or mouth will go
(03:09):
back and eat it once, and it only needs to
eat it once in order to get to a lethal dose.
But because they're slow acting, the rats and mice go
back over a couple of days and eat more and
more and they become you know, these super toxic organisms,
and they essentially just get way up in the food chain.
So yeah, it's not typically the prime the bobcats in
the mountain lions aren't eating the rat poison themselves, but
that leaves the rats and the mice than you that
(03:30):
then give up in the food chain.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Okay, is there a different kind of poison that could
be used instead of this anti coagulant.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
There are a range of other redenticides that are that
are neurotoxins or other types of lethal poisons. But you know,
we really discourage people from using rat poisons because there's
no reason to leave some of these poisons on the
market when there are safe, cost effective options that are
ready to readily available that don't kill other effective ways ahead.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Oh, I was just going to say, let's talk about those,
because of course killing the rat. Rats are a huge
problem or they can become I mean, they you know,
they spread the plague, right, So we can't poison them,
But how are we going to keep the rats from
taking over?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Because yeah, there rats and mice can be a substantial
public health threat, and there are a range of effective
ways to manage road infestations that don't involve toxic rat poisons.
So among the most important are exclusion and sanitation. There
are other fertility controls and a variety of the old
standard rat you know, snap traps or electric traps that
(04:37):
work very effectively. Rats and mice are in your home
because there are gaps in the in the structure. They're
coming in for food and water. If you're able to
steal them out, then you're able to get rid of
a lot of that public health threat. So calling road
and exclusion specialists and pest control specialists who can provide
screening and seal up those gaps absolutely critical. Getting rid
(04:58):
of dog food that you're leading outside or water that's
drawing the mice and rats, and it's crucial good that
they're if you're leaving your garbage can open, they're going
to come every night, So you can't you can't poison
your way out of that problem. So killing rodents that
end up poisoning wildlife with poisons actually runs contrary to
to solving the problem. If we use these poisons, we
(05:21):
poison the very best solutions to road control, which are wildlife.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Okay, And then when you look at the whole circle
of life thing, I mean that even rats are and
mice are part of the food chain, so other predators
do need them for food.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah, And when you when you have these natural predators eating,
you know, bobcats, and when you have the coyrites and
everything out there in the wild areas of the hills
of southern California, you don't really see these high rodent populations.
So they're really the wildlife are doing their job. It's
where we're really feeding them. In the natural urban areas
where we're not really being sanitary and we're not really
(06:01):
excluding the Now is where it becomes a problem.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
See humans just cause all kinds of problems. When does
the band go into affect, Jonathan? Is it now?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
It goes into effect in January first, twenty twenty five,
But some of the restrictions on other anti kawailants are
already in effect. So this final Build a Poison three
Wildlife Act will create restrictions now on all the rap
bloodstting wrap poisons in California, and we hope that the
data really shows that it can have a dramatic effect
in protecting California's wildlife in the future.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yep. We want healthy animal populations and if people want
to get more information about this or other ways that
they can safely protect their homes against the rats getting
in and that kind of thing. Is there a place
to go?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, there a website Safe Roadentcontrol dot org has a
good information on resources and what to use. Also, raptors
are The Solution is one of our partners and sponsors
on the bill and they have a host of different
solutions on raptors at a solution dot org that will
help you find a safer protections for rodents in your
(07:06):
home and your own yards.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I like the idea of the raptors. Okay, Jonathan Evans,
thank you so much for the information. This helps us
understand this a lot better. And I know that, like
you said, we need a healthy animal population and we
hated to see what happened to p. Twenty two and
hopefully we can stop some of that from happening in
the future.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Absolutely, thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
All right, thank you
Let's say good morning now to Jonathan Evans, who is
the long title Environmental Health Legal Director and Senior Attorney
for the Center for Biological Diversity. Good morning, Jonathan, Good morning.
So Governor Newsom has signed a first in the nation
law that restricts the use of blood thinning rat poison.
So before we talk about how the law is going
(00:23):
to work moving forward, I want to back up a
little bit. Can you tell us how long these rat
poisons have been around, what they do and why the
band because they do actually kill rats.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
They do kill rats, but they also unintentionally kill a
lot of other things, a lot of upper level predators
that are higher in the city chain to eat these
rats and mice, and these products have been on the
market in California and throughout the US for decades. Most
people don't realize that when they have a rodent problem
and go to the store to buy a rat poison
(00:54):
or call an extermator to use rat poison, so it
can have a horrible effect on wildlife and even pose
their risk to their pets and family. That's because, as
we talked about, these rat poisons don't just harm rodents,
they can actually unintentionally poison other living things to consume
the poison or the poison rodents, and this issue is widespread,
from bald eagles and barnels to black bears and bobcats.
(01:16):
Predenticides are poisoning and killing wildlife, so restrictions on these
blood fitting rat poisons, also known as anti coagulant predenticides,
help prevent slow, painful poisonings that literally cause animals to
bleed to death from the inside out and also lead
to other host of issues like disease and organ failure.
Wildlife just becomes so sick that they are unable to
(01:37):
find the food or other predators or to avoid predators,
and these blood fitting rat poisons are one of the
main factors that are driving mountain lions in southern California
to extinction. And we all remember the iconic Griffith Park
mountain line p. Twenty two that was exposed to redenticide
that contributed to mange, leading to ill health and eventual death.
(01:57):
And data from the California Department of Ficient wille life
and research specialists have found that over ninety five percent
of mountain lions that are tested in California have been
exposed at these anacawagon or denticides, so it's crucial to
get them out of a food chain. And the Poison
Free Wildlife Act, which is what Governor Newsom signed, is
now the third bill that we at the Center for
Biological Diversity had worked to pass in the past four
(02:19):
years past four years that places restrictions on all of
the blood sending rat poisons in California. So we really
are doing taking great steps to get these off the
market from consumers and residential uses. There are exceptions for
agriculture and public health, but we really takes it. It
goes a long way to get the mopic store shelves
for consumers.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Okay, So Jonathan, I want to just dig a little
deeper on that so that it's not mountain lions aren't
eating rats right.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Now mountainin span but they also will eat coyotes, and
the coyotes will eat the rats and the mice. They
can't bobcats. Bobcats are widely exposed at the same level
as mountain lions. But these things I accumulate as they
get in the food chain, they become even more powerful.
So some of these products they're called one feed killed
Blood Center. So essentially the rat or mouth will go
(03:09):
back and eat it once, and it only needs to
eat it once in order to get to a lethal dose.
But because they're slow acting, the rats and mice go
back over a couple of days and eat more and
more and they become you know, these super toxic organisms,
and they essentially just get way up in the food chain.
So yeah, it's not typically the prime the bobcats in
the mountain lions aren't eating the rat poison themselves, but
that leaves the rats and the mice than you that
(03:30):
then give up in the food chain.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Okay, is there a different kind of poison that could
be used instead of this anti coagulant.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
There are a range of other redenticides that are that
are neurotoxins or other types of lethal poisons. But you know,
we really discourage people from using rat poisons because there's
no reason to leave some of these poisons on the
market when there are safe, cost effective options that are
ready to readily available that don't kill other effective ways ahead.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Oh, I was just going to say, let's talk about those,
because of course killing the rat. Rats are a huge
problem or they can become I mean, they you know,
they spread the plague, right, So we can't poison them,
But how are we going to keep the rats from
taking over?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Because yeah, there rats and mice can be a substantial
public health threat, and there are a range of effective
ways to manage road infestations that don't involve toxic rat poisons.
So among the most important are exclusion and sanitation. There
are other fertility controls and a variety of the old
standard rat you know, snap traps or electric traps that
(04:37):
work very effectively. Rats and mice are in your home
because there are gaps in the in the structure. They're
coming in for food and water. If you're able to
steal them out, then you're able to get rid of
a lot of that public health threat. So calling road
and exclusion specialists and pest control specialists who can provide
screening and seal up those gaps absolutely critical. Getting rid
(04:58):
of dog food that you're leading outside or water that's
drawing the mice and rats, and it's crucial good that
they're if you're leaving your garbage can open, they're going
to come every night, So you can't you can't poison
your way out of that problem. So killing rodents that
end up poisoning wildlife with poisons actually runs contrary to
to solving the problem. If we use these poisons, we
(05:21):
poison the very best solutions to road control, which are wildlife.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Okay, And then when you look at the whole circle
of life thing, I mean that even rats are and
mice are part of the food chain, so other predators
do need them for food.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah, And when you when you have these natural predators eating,
you know, bobcats, and when you have the coyrites and
everything out there in the wild areas of the hills
of southern California, you don't really see these high rodent populations.
So they're really the wildlife are doing their job. It's
where we're really feeding them. In the natural urban areas
where we're not really being sanitary and we're not really
(06:01):
excluding the Now is where it becomes a problem.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
See humans just cause all kinds of problems. When does
the band go into affect, Jonathan? Is it now?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
It goes into effect in January first, twenty twenty five,
But some of the restrictions on other anti kawailants are
already in effect. So this final Build a Poison three
Wildlife Act will create restrictions now on all the rap
bloodstting wrap poisons in California, and we hope that the
data really shows that it can have a dramatic effect
in protecting California's wildlife in the future.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yep. We want healthy animal populations and if people want
to get more information about this or other ways that
they can safely protect their homes against the rats getting
in and that kind of thing. Is there a place
to go?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, there a website Safe Roadentcontrol dot org has a
good information on resources and what to use. Also, raptors
are The Solution is one of our partners and sponsors
on the bill and they have a host of different
solutions on raptors at a solution dot org that will
help you find a safer protections for rodents in your
(07:06):
home and your own yards.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I like the idea of the raptors. Okay, Jonathan Evans,
thank you so much for the information. This helps us
understand this a lot better. And I know that, like
you said, we need a healthy animal population and we
hated to see what happened to p. Twenty two and
hopefully we can stop some of that from happening in
the future.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Absolutely, thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
All right, thank you
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