Episode 27: Megan's Court Showdown

Bronwyn’s friend and cousin Megan Read drops new bombshells while under oath on Day 2 of the inquest. Megan gives evidence at the coronial inquiry about having been told by Jon Winfield that he saw and spoke to Bronwyn in Brisbane, several years after her disappearance. Jon’s lawyer starts a fierce cross examination of Megan in the witness box.

Jodie also comes under renewed scrutiny for pushing a claim that Bronwyn has been happily living in a hippie community. The claim appears baseless and police officer Matt Fordham challenges Jodie for having omitted key details when she put it around. Jodie says that she opened a personal letter meant for Chrystal with photos of her missing Mum. 

Read more about this case and see photographs, maps, timelines and more at bronwynpodcast.com. 

If you have information which may help solve this cold case, you can – contact our team confidentially by emailing [e-mail]

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Listeners are advised that this podcast series Brown contains course
language and adult themes. This podcast series is brought to
you by me Headley Thomas and The Australian.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Your Worship. An issue arose yesterday morning in relation to
a possible sighting of the missing person. On that issue,
i'd seek to call Jody Maine when.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
The courtroom reopened for the second day of the inquest.
It wasn't the prime suspect, John Winfield, but he's daughter Jody,
who was ushered forward to give evidence on an important
matter that had come up the day before.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
And ma'am, do you understand? I just want to ask
you some very brief questions about a telephone call that
you received yesterday morning, and at a later stage in
this inquest I will be asking you some further questions
about this matter.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yep, let's pause to recap. Jody had received a phone
call on the previous day from a woman named Kayleen Jones.
According to Jody, Kayleen had called the Winfield family home
in Lennox Head about eight thirty am asking to speak
to Crystal Becurse. The caller had some photographs to share

(01:45):
with Crystal of Bromwin and Crystal's biological father, Mark Davis.
Kayleen then purportedly went into detail about the night that
Crystal was conceived, and then, according to Jody, Kayleen shared
with Jody a startling piece of information. Bromwin had been

(02:06):
seen alive. According to Jody, Kayleen's friend Joanne was confident
that she had seen Bromwin out Nimbu and Weh, referencing
the small hippie town less than an hour from where
the court sat in Lismore. The stunning revelation caused to
stir in the courtroom. On day one, police officers Matt

(02:30):
Fordham and Glen Taylor set about checking the rumor as
a matter of priority. As you heard in the previous episode,
Glen Taylor told the inquest that he had spoken to
Joanne Guthrie and she had denied telling Kayleen that Bromwin
was out Nimbenweh. Joanne had said she had no evidence

(02:50):
at all of this being true. It was clear by
the morning of day two that the possibility of Bromwin
being alive and living somewhere near Nimbeni was unfounded. But
now Matt Fordham, the police officer assisting the coroner, had
questions for Jody. He was clearly skeptical about some details

(03:10):
that Jody had told him the previous day about the
phone call with Kayleen. He also had questions about what
Jody didn't tell him, Questions like why didn't Jody tell
him Kayleen or Joanne surnames? If she didn't know, why
hadn't she asked Kayleen? If Jody really believed that Bromwin

(03:33):
had been seen out nimb and way as she put it,
then surely she would have been at pains to get
those details from Kayleen. Why had she told only half
the story? Ma'am?

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Is it the case that yesterday at about eleven fifteen
you approached myself and the officer in charge and you
informed us that you had received a phone call from
a lady called Kayleen about eight thirty yesterday morning? Is
that correct?

Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (04:02):
And could you tell the court what Kayleen told you?

Speaker 4 (04:06):
She told me She rang up asking to speak to Christel.
I told her that Christel wasn't here. She asked when
I would be seeing her. I told her this week.
She then told me she had something to give her
that it was photos of her mother and father. I
then asked her which father. She said her real father
Mark Davis. She then started to tell me about the
night Cristal was conceived. She went into detail about that,

(04:30):
and pretty much after that, she told me that she
knew a lady called Joanne Guthrie or Joanne had married
a man called Craig Guthrie, and that Joanne knows that
Bromwin is living out Nimbenweh. And then this Kaylen told
me that she lives out Nimbenweh, has never seen her,
but Joanne is confident that she is out in Nimbenweh.
And that's all I know. That's what I wrote down.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
And you received this phone call at your home address,
Is that correct?

Speaker 5 (04:55):
Yep?

Speaker 3 (04:56):
Eight thirty yesterday morning?

Speaker 2 (04:58):
And I think you made some notes when you arrived
at the courthouse about that conversation. Is that right?

Speaker 3 (05:04):
I wrote it down as she was telling me.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Do you have those notes here?

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Jodie said yes, and she produced the notes that she
had written on a piece of paper during her phone
call with Kayleen.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
In relation to the identity of Joanne. You've made some
notes on this piece of paper that says that Joanne
says she's out nimb and wet they know. And then
later it says Joanne lives in Sydney. Would you agree
that there is no reference to the surname of Joanne
on this document?

Speaker 4 (05:36):
Well, she told me she was married to Mark Guthrie's brother,
so I assume that's Craig Guthrie.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Well it's true, isn't it, ma'am, that you told us
you didn't know the surname of Joanne.

Speaker 4 (05:46):
I might have said I didn't know, but I just
assumed all along that it was Craig Guthrie's wife.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, do you agree that the officer in charge and
I were asking you questions along the lines of do
you know Kaylen's surname? Do you know where Kaylen lives?
Her phone number? And things like that.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah, I said no to that because I didn't.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
You said no to each of these things, yep. And
then we asked you questions along the lines of do
you know who this jo Anne person is? And you
also said that you don't know who she is. You
don't know her surname.

Speaker 4 (06:19):
No, I don't know who she is. I don't know
Kayleen either. Never heard of them until yesterday.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Well, a moment ago, ma'am, you gave evidence that it
was Joanne Garthrie that had allegedly spoken to Kayleen about
seeing the missing person.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
John's lawyer, Craig Leggett, stood and defended his client's daughter.

Speaker 6 (06:38):
I think, to be fair to the witness, the witness said,
she assumed it was she's making the difference between knowledge
and assumption. I think is the point, ma'am.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
When was it that you made that assumption after I
got the phone call? It was certainly before you spoke
to the officer in charge and I yesterday, wasn't it yep?
Is there any reason why you didn't indicate to us
that it was a Joanne, possibly Joanne Garthrie, that was
being spoken about by Kaylen.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Jody deflected the question.

Speaker 4 (07:11):
I'm just relaying what was told to me yesterday morning
to the best of how it was told to me.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Certainly you agree that when the officer in charge and
I inquired of you the surname of Joanne, you couldn't
indicate to us what Joanne's surname was, could you?

Speaker 5 (07:26):
No?

Speaker 4 (07:26):
In actual fact, I said that I asked this Kayleen
if she'd been if she had spoken to the police,
and she said she had and she'd told the police this,
And that was when we said to Glenn Taylor that
somewhere in the brief would be Kaylene's last name so
he could find who she was.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Ma'am.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
I'm not trying to discredit you at all. I'm simply
trying to focus our attention on what you told us
yesterday at eleven fifteen. And would you agree that you
didn't know Joanne's surname or you certainly didn't tell us
that you had any idea of Joanne's surname yesterday? Did you?

Speaker 6 (07:58):
Well?

Speaker 3 (07:58):
I only knew what was written on that.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
If it's written on that, matt Fordham changed direction, ma'am.
Isn't it the case that since yesterday you've received a
letter in the mail? Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (08:10):
Yes? This morning?

Speaker 2 (08:12):
Whereabouts? Did you receive that letter at my house? And
was it in the letter box at your house?

Speaker 5 (08:18):
Yep?

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Do you know where it was delivered by post or?

Speaker 4 (08:21):
I saw the postman deliver it and my daughter got
it out of the letter box and brought.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
It into me.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
Who was the letter from?

Speaker 3 (08:28):
From Kayleen Jones to Crystal?

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Do you have the letter here today?

Speaker 3 (08:33):
Yep?

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Have you opened this letter?

Speaker 3 (08:36):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (08:37):
Would you agree that it's been re sealed?

Speaker 3 (08:40):
I just yep, I pushed it back down.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
What's inside the letter?

Speaker 3 (08:44):
Photos for Crystal?

Speaker 2 (08:46):
Is Crystal here? Do you have any objection if I
open the letter?

Speaker 6 (08:51):
Ma'am?

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Are you able to indicate to the court what's the firstly,
what's the relevance of the photographs here?

Speaker 4 (08:57):
There photos of her father and her mother and photo
as a Bronlin on her own, photos of Bronlin with
Crystal together.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
There's also a note contained in the letter. Have you
read the note briefly?

Speaker 1 (09:09):
But it is an odd admission from Jody. Her stepsister
Cristel was sitting in the courtroom that morning. The envelope
and the letter from Kayleen were specifically addressed to Crystal.
According to Jody, she already knew from talking to Kayleen
the previous morning that the letter was intended for Crystal

(09:32):
and it contained photographs of Brommin and Crystal's father, Mark Davis.
Jody could have easily handed Crystal the envelope before court
began for Crystal to open, but Crystal didn't. Jody opened it.
Matt Fordham did not press Jody about why.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Perhaps your worship I might leed some evidence from Kaylene
Jones about the contents of this note if it's appropriate,
I have no further questions of this witness at this time.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
Sitting in the courtroom was the letters sender Kayleen Jones.
She had been asked by Glenn Taylor the previous evening
to come to court and explain the phone call that
she'd had with Jody. Kayleen knew her old friend Bromwin
much better than most. They grew up together as teenagers
and best friends in Sydney's Sutherlandshire, and they had shared

(10:24):
formative memories as young adults. Together they experienced some of
the highs and lows of navigating life as young mothers
with small children. Kayleen moved away and coincidentally she now
lived near Nimben, and her appearance at the inquest was brief.
She was asked just eleven questions by Matt Fordham.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Could you tell the court what you told Jody?

Speaker 7 (10:48):
I asked her, if Kristel was there, that I had
some photos put away for Crystal and I was waiting
until she was old enough to receive them, which is
why I hadn't contacted her earlier in the Northern Star
on Saturday. The inquest was on this week, so I
presumed that Crystal would be around for that.

Speaker 1 (11:08):
The police officer asked Kayleen if she had made any
reference to a lady named Joanne in her phone conversation
with Jody. Yes.

Speaker 7 (11:17):
I asked Jody a couple of questions about what they
thought may have happened to Bromwin and whether there was
any sightings of her. She said that one of Bromman's friends, Diane,
who I remember from years ago, had possibly seen her.
I told Jody I got a phone call years ago
from Joanne saying Bromwin was supposedly in the Nimben area.

(11:39):
I've lived around Nimben for eleven years and said that
if she was around there, I would have seen her,
and I hadn't seen her. I did see Nimbuen police.
Neville Plush was the sergeant at the time and Kevin
Gillemier was the scenic constable, and I told them if
Bromwin was around the Nimben area that I would have

(11:59):
seen her in that time, and I knew she wasn't there.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Basically, there is a significant difference here between Jody and
Kayleen's recollections of the phone call. Jody gave evidence a
short time earlier that Kayleen had said her friend, Joanne
knows that Bromwin is living out nimben Weh, and according
to Jody, Kayleen said that she lives out nimben Weh

(12:24):
and has never seen Bromwin herself, but that Joanne is
confident that Bromwin is there. It all amounted to a
very definite impression. Matt Fordham didn't press this discrepancy. Instead,
he turned to another matter that clearly aroused his suspicion.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
He asked, did you indicate to Jody what Joanne's surname was?

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Kayleen replied that she'd told Jody that Joanne had married
a man named Craig Guthrie, and Craig's brother is Mark Guthrie,
Bromwin's former partner.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Ma'am the community at Nimben, Is it the case that
if someone was living at Nimben that you would expect
to see them at some stage through your life?

Speaker 7 (13:08):
Living at Nimben, definitely, you can know hundreds of people
out there to say hello to. You don't know everyone personally,
but bronwhen I've known since I was a teenager. I've
known her for years, and if she was around anywhere
and I'd caught sight of her, I would know it
was her. I did ask for the address. I looked

(13:30):
up the Windfields in the phone book because I knew
they lived at Lennox Head, and I just asked if
I could send the photos over to Crystal. Jodie said
she'd make sure Crystal got them.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Ma'am, is it in your view possible that bron and
Winfield could be living at Nimben and not have met
your attention over the years. No, and you certainly haven't
been living as a recluse or No, ma'am. The letter
that you've sent to Crystal, it basically encloses a number
of photographs and wishes t Cristal all the best, and
it indicates that you have knowledge of Bronwin when she

(14:05):
was younger. Yeah, there's no suggestion in your correspondence to
Crystal that Bronwin has been alive since sixteen May ninety three. No.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
During the first season of the Bromwyn podcast series, I
received an email from Kayleen Jones. She reached out to
me unprompted, well before we began producing this episode. She
said she had been following the podcast closely, and she
attached a sixteen page letter to her email with a

(14:35):
one word title Bromwin. Kayleen had a lot to say
about Bromwyn, and she had new revelations about the phone
call she had with Jody on the first morning of
the inquest in two thousand and two. She has agreed
to read out parts of her letter.

Speaker 7 (14:52):
Jody said the inquest was to paint her father black
and that Bronwyn had just walked out on them. I said, well,
where is she then? And Jody mentioned someone named Diane
allegedly citing Bromwin at Cronala since her disappearance.

Speaker 5 (15:10):
I mentioned that Bromwin's.

Speaker 7 (15:12):
And my friend Joanne Guthrie contacted me years beforehand, saying
that John supposedly said that Bromwin was in Nimben, which
I knew was untrue because if anyone would recognize her.

Speaker 5 (15:26):
I would.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
In her letter, Kaylene mentioned some important details that were
not part of the evidence in two thousand and two.
The first is that she remembered telling Jody in the
phone call that it was Jody's father John, who first
suggested Bromwin could be at Nimben. Kayleen explained that she
didn't tell the inquest this important detail because she was

(15:50):
still surprised at having to give evidence at short notice.
She said she felt she did not have an opportunity
to expand on her answers.

Speaker 7 (16:00):
I drove to liz More Coroner's Court and was completely
baffled about why I was there, and everyone started explaining
what Jody had said about me.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
The day before, My colleague Isaac Ayan spoke to Kayleen
at her home just outside Nimben and Kayleen shared more
details about her phone call with Jody in two thousand
and two.

Speaker 5 (16:24):
I remember that phone conversation.

Speaker 7 (16:25):
She actually did say Crystal's here, but not here right now,
which is why she couldn't put her on the phone.
And then I said that I'd had photos of Bromwin,
Crystal's dad and Crystal and she's gone, which dad, and
I said, Mark Davis, so you could hear her voice.

Speaker 6 (16:47):
She had contempt in her voice.

Speaker 7 (16:49):
What I said was that Joanne had heard years ago
through Megan Bromman's cousin, that John had alleged that Bromwin
was out Nimben way, and I said, well, she's definitely
not up here, because if anyone's going to recognize.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Her, I would.

Speaker 8 (17:08):
But in that phone call, you also made it clear
that neither you nor Joanne believed.

Speaker 7 (17:13):
They werenat absolutely neither of us believed that rumor. I
then went on to say to Jody that I did
see the missing person segment on the TV program Crime Watch,
Missing Persons Australia, whatever show it was, and that was
the second time that I'd heard that allegedly she was

(17:35):
in the Nimben area, which was why I then went
to Nimbum Police the following day to tell them Bromhen
wasn't around Nimben, to which the police laughed at me
and said, you can't report a non sighting of a person.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
I've spoken to Joanne Guthrie and she confirmed with me
that she remembered hearing something about Bromwin supposed being out
Nimben Way. Here's a snippet from my conversation with Joanne Guthrie.
You're going to hear more from her and from Kayleen
in a later episode and their observations of John.

Speaker 7 (18:14):
My recollection, I mean, we're going back a long time now,
was that Megan contacted myself.

Speaker 8 (18:22):
And said that she had heard that Bromwin was living
out in Nimbhen Way.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
And it's possible that Megan heard it from John Winfield.
Kayleen has a view about Jody's actions at the two
thousand and two in Quest, insofar as their phone calls concerned.

Speaker 7 (18:41):
Completely twisted and distorted it to make it what she
wanted it to be. When I first rang up, she said,
this whole inquest.

Speaker 5 (18:51):
Is to paint my father black.

Speaker 7 (18:55):
She was already on the defensive, and then gone to
the inquest and completely change my words and said, there.

Speaker 5 (19:04):
Is an alleged sighting out at Nimben.

Speaker 7 (19:07):
And Jody has taken parts of our phone conversation and
turned it into what she wanted it to be.

Speaker 8 (19:15):
At the inquest, trying to conjure up a potential sighting
of Bromlin, Yes, which would have put in doubt the
theory that John was her killer.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yes, It's possible that Jody was simply mistaken in her
recollection of what Kayleen told her. It is also possible that,
in her excitement at hearing of a possible rumor of
Bromwin being alive, Jody glossed over key qualifying details from
Kayleen and instead wrote down a very definitive statement, let

(19:51):
me repeat what those words were. Joanne says, she's out
nimb and way. They know a little more about this.
In a later episode, when Jody gives evidence again on
day four of the inquest. On that day, matt Fordham
asked more penetrating questions about Jody's actions during and after

(20:14):
the phone call with Kayleen. He appeared to be very suspicious.

(20:42):
The second day of the inquest continued with evidence of
another possible sighting of Bromwin.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Ma'am, can you please tell us your full name?

Speaker 9 (20:51):
Diane Linda McMillan.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
Diane McMillan knew Bromwin well. They met at Sylvania Price
School in Sydney, Sutherlandshire when they were about ten years old,
and they stayed in touch throughout the years. Diane met
Bromwin's boyfriends, including Mark Guthrie and Mark Davis, and Diane
recalled Crystal's birth and the controversy over her true parentage. Diane,

(21:19):
of course met John Winfield. Matt Fordham walked Diane through
what she had told police in her nineteen ninety eight statement.
He asked Diane about a phone call in early nineteen
ninety three with Bromwin.

Speaker 10 (21:34):
I was at home and the phone rang and I
answered it and it was Bromwin and I hadn't heard
from her for a while. I remember her telling me
that John had gone all weird and strange, and I
just said, look, I'm in Sydney, you're in Ballina. You

(21:54):
should get help, and you know, just get out of there, Bromwin.

Speaker 9 (21:58):
That's what I said to her.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Did she indicate anything specifically, any specific event that prompted
her to ring you?

Speaker 10 (22:05):
No, she just I vaguely remember her telling me that
he'd become very possessive.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
Did she sound to you as though she felt safe
in that house?

Speaker 11 (22:16):
No?

Speaker 2 (22:18):
And did she indicate to you any plans for the future.

Speaker 9 (22:21):
No.

Speaker 12 (22:22):
No.

Speaker 10 (22:23):
I've known Bromwin for a very long time, and I
knew she absolutely adored her children, and there's just no
way she would have left them for this period of time.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
Matt Fordham asked Diane to recount another phone conversation, one
that she'd had with John in mid nineteen ninety three,
a few weeks after Bromwin had disappeared.

Speaker 10 (22:46):
He just said to me, have you seen Bromwin? And
I said no. I said, what have you done with her?
Because I was very suspicious of him because of what
Bromwin had said.

Speaker 9 (22:56):
To me on the phone.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
And what was mister Winfield's reaction to that comment?

Speaker 9 (23:01):
Oh? How dare you speak to me like that?

Speaker 10 (23:04):
You know, he just went right off as bean and
I got quite frightened of him at that stage.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Did you have any subsequent phone calls to mister Winfield
about this issue afterwards? Yes?

Speaker 5 (23:18):
No.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
In the police investigation and inquest, there were three purported
sightings of Bromwin in the years following her disappearance. The
Nimben rumor was an obvious red herring. At the inquest,
there was another purported sighting of Bromwin by a woman
named Jane Johnston. Jane's husband, Andrew and John were first cousins.

(23:44):
Jane got to know Bromwyn well. He's a reminder from
episode four of what Jane said in her nineteen ninety
eight police statement.

Speaker 13 (23:55):
She would often state to me that she was scared
of John and worried that he would hit her, Although
she never ever told me that he did, and I'm
sure she would have if it had occurred, she did
inform me after Christmas that year he had backed her
up against the kitchen cabinets and raised his hand as
if to hit her, but then just walked away.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Another key part of Jane Johnston's nineteen ninety eight statement
to police was disclosed in episode six.

Speaker 13 (24:25):
Shortly after returning home from overseas, Andrew and I went
on a picnic at Stanwell Park with Peter and Louise Winfield.
Peter is John's brother. While we were on the picnic,
Peter told us that Bronwyn had disappeared about a month prior.
We didn't have much contact with John after that, and
I didn't discuss her disappearance with him because he obviously
didn't want to.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
One day in nineteen ninety four, whilst shopping in the Shire,
Jane saw a woman in profile about thirty meters away.
She thought the woman looked like Bromwin. Jane yelled Bromwin's
name loudly, but there was no response. Jane said she
ran after the shopper but lost her in the crowd.

(25:09):
Jane Johnston was not called as a witness at the inquest.
There was another purported sighting of Bromwin in Kunella eighteen
months later. Diane McMillan believed that she had caught a
glimpse of her old friend Bromwin and apparently without any
worry of being seen. Here's Diane from her nineteen ninety

(25:31):
eight police statement.

Speaker 10 (25:33):
I caught the side profile of this girl, and I
thought it was Bromin's standing there. I turned around as
I passed, But this girl must have walked off fairly quickly.
I'm not sure that it was in fact Bromwin, but
it looked like her.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
Matt Forlham asked Diane about this.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
You turned around as you passed this girl, But this
girl must have walked off fairly quickly, because you didn't
see her again after that.

Speaker 10 (25:59):
No, no, I just turned my head around. I was driving,
concentrating on the road.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
Of course, on the first look to your left, did
you recognize it as Bronwin?

Speaker 5 (26:10):
Then?

Speaker 9 (26:11):
I didn't see her face.

Speaker 10 (26:13):
I only saw the side of her head, on the
back of her body. She was behind a car, and
it was a brief sighting, very brief, ma'am.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
Do you believe it was Bronwin or that it could
have been Bronwyn Winfield that you saw in nineteen ninety five?

Speaker 10 (26:29):
It could have been her, but I don't think it.
I didn't see her face, so I can't be sure.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Did you in nineteen ninety five, when you say you
caught a glimpse of someone who appeared to be Bronwen,
did you make any attempt to contact Bronwyn's family.

Speaker 10 (26:46):
I was sort of thinking that she was missing, not
anything else that happened. So I actually rang John Winfield,
I think, and I told him that I think I'd
seen her in Cronulla.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
The police officer raised a point about Bronwyn.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
And given that you say you believe you saw someone
who looked like Bromwin in Cronulla, did it strike you
as strange that Bronwyin would not have contacted her family
if she was living in Cronulla.

Speaker 10 (27:13):
Yes, I the whole thing has struck me as strange
because she wasn't a person that would just disappear.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
You mentioned that the hair was a unique feature of
Bronwyin that struck you as being similar to her. But
is there any other unique feature, for example, the shape
of her nose, or the shape of an ear, or
some sort of mark on the face or anything like
that that could indicate to us as being a unique
identifier that the person you saw was Bronwin.

Speaker 10 (27:42):
Her body, the long legs, in just the way her
figure was. It was just an outstanding figure. You never
forget it once you've seen it.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
And when you saw this lady, was she standing still
or was she moving?

Speaker 9 (27:56):
She was moving?

Speaker 2 (27:58):
Do you remember what she was wearing?

Speaker 9 (28:01):
No?

Speaker 2 (28:01):
No, I don't, Given what you know about circumstances of
Bronwin's disappearance, did you go and search for her in
any of those shops?

Speaker 9 (28:09):
No, I didn't.

Speaker 10 (28:11):
I just thought she was gone, so how would I
be able to find her.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
John's lawyer, Craig Leggett, had some brief questions for Diane
about a phone conversation that she made to his client John.

Speaker 6 (28:25):
The sighting was in mid nineteen ninety five. That was
some seven years ago, wasn't it.

Speaker 9 (28:30):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (28:31):
And at the time of the sighting your recollection of
events was a lot better than it is now, isn't it.

Speaker 9 (28:38):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (28:39):
The sighting back in nineteen ninety five struck you as
being struck you at the time as being so clearly
Bronwin that you rang John Winfield straight away. Didn't she Yes?

Speaker 9 (28:49):
But I wasn't sure it was her, but it looked
like her.

Speaker 6 (28:53):
And in the course of the conversation with John, you
in fact apologized to him for making the allegations that
you'd made to him in the last phone call with him,
didn't you?

Speaker 9 (29:03):
I can't recall that.

Speaker 6 (29:05):
Did you say something like, look, I'm sorry that I
suspected you before, but I've now seen Bronwin. I'm sorry,
I apologize something like that.

Speaker 9 (29:13):
No, I don't think I would have said that, but.

Speaker 6 (29:16):
Words to that effect. No, that was the gist of
the call, wasn't it that you had seen Bromwin and
you were ringing him to tell him that you'd made
that sighting.

Speaker 10 (29:26):
Yes, at the time, I didn't know she was going
to be missing for this period of time.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
Though Broman's former partner, Mark Davis, the father of Crystal,
went into the witness box next, Mark has since passed
away on Day one of the inquests. John's lawyer, Craig Leggett,
had suggested that Bromin's attempts to contact Mark Davis in
May nineteen ninety three, shortly before her disappearance, could have

(29:56):
indicated Bromwin's desire to safeguard her eldest daughter while Bromwin
took off from the family forever, but that theory is
at odds with what Bromwin herself wrote. In a letter
to Mark Davis and his parents, Crystal's grandparents in early
May nineteen ninety three. Bromwin wrote that she wanted Kristel's

(30:18):
biological father to be in his daughter's life, but that
she was not going to relinquish custody of Crystal to Mark.
Here's a brief reminder from episode ten of some of
what Romwin wrote to Mark Davis and his parents in
her letter in May nineteen ninety three.

Speaker 11 (30:39):
Dear Edita, Alwen, Mark and family. I thought i'd drop
you a note since it costs so much for phone calls,
and with the girls at school, I have the time.
It's so long since we had some form of contact
that I don't know where to start. Crystal has grown
up into a lovely child, and I know you would
be proud to be her grandparents and Mark would love

(30:59):
her as well, but I'm not going to relinquish my custody.
I will always be open to your suggestions on schooling
and any other ideas you may have, and would welcome
Mark as a friend to confide in with any issues
that may arise, although the final decision will be mine,
because if there's one thing I am good at, it
as being a mother. I'm sure there is room for improvement,

(31:20):
but it's what I love best in life, something sadly
lacking in my teenage years.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Roman's brother Andy Reid told me in episode ten that
he believed Bromwin was looking to safeguard Crystal if anything
happened to her.

Speaker 14 (31:38):
She was trying to ensure Crystal's well being if anything
ever went wrong. She already asked and my comments to
Michelle and May that if anything ever happens to me,
promised me, you look after Crystals.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
But of course Bromwin's plans to reunite Crystal with Mark
Davis in nineteen ninety three did not eventuate. Mark Davis
would not be in regular contact with Crystal until nineteen
ninety five. She joined Mark and his family during school
holidays and they spoke about Bromwin. Crystal made disclosures to

(32:18):
Mark about what happened the night her mum disappeared, as
with other witnesses. Matt Fordham began by taking Mark Davis
through things that he had said in his nineteen ninety
eight police statement.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Firstly, sir, you say that you're describing Bronwin's character and
you say that you're both very headstrong people.

Speaker 6 (32:39):
That's correct.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
Romwin and Mark Davis had planned to be married in
January nineteen eighty four, but the wedding didn't happen. There
were tensions in their relationship. Matt Fordham asked whether Bromwin
would definitely go ahead with something once she had decided
on it, or was she indecisive and likely to change

(33:02):
her mind several times about something.

Speaker 15 (33:05):
I'd say that once she had made her mind up,
she'd go ahead with it, which is probably a bit
of the problem. We had a long I was the same.
I wanted things done my way and she wanted things
done her way, and nevertheto shall meet.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
By mid nineteen eighty five, they were not on speaking
terms and Mark Davis was no longer seeing his daughter Crystal.
And then in about early nineteen ninety, Mark saw Bromwin's sister,
Melissa Reid, in a nightclub in the Shire called Carmen's.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
And at that time, sir, you were very keen to
meet up with Crystal, your daughter. Is that correct?

Speaker 6 (33:41):
That's correct?

Speaker 15 (33:42):
And I just found out my mother had Parkinson's disease,
and I just thought I'd like to get her Crystal
to know my mother before the disease declined too far
and she got to at least know her grandmother. I
asked Melissa, could she contact Bronwin for me to see
if it was possible to see Crystal, and she got
to me the following week and I ran into her
again at the nightclub and she said that Bronwin had

(34:05):
said no.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
When Bromwin said no, do you remember was there any
reason given or was there any explanation of that?

Speaker 15 (34:13):
Well, I think she was just trying to get on
with her life and you know, sort of put that
part of her life behind her, because Crystal didn't know
that John wasn't her father at the time I met
her when she was twelve, So nineteen ninety five I
think was when we finally met again.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
Matt Fordham was at a bit of a disadvantage. He
did not have in front of him the letter that
you just heard a voice actor read aloud, the one
which Bromwin sent to Mark Davis and his parents. The
letter had not yet been tended as a document at
the inquest because it was still sitting in an old
box of material which the detective Graham Diskin had collected

(34:54):
during his investigation. It was only on day four of
the inquest that the material was admitted as an exhibit,
after Glenn Taylor went and retrieved the box It included
drafts of Bromwin's letters to Mark and to others, and
some of Bromwin's handwritten notes. But on day two Matt
Fordham was traveling blind and he had to seek information

(35:17):
about the letter from the witness.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
So that was the very first time that there was
any intent on Bromwin's behalf to reunite yourself with Crystal.
Is that correct?

Speaker 6 (35:28):
That's correct.

Speaker 15 (35:29):
I think it was due because she was separating from
John and thought that it was time for Crystal to
know her real father.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
When you say that she was separating from John and
it was time for Crystal to be reunited with her father,
could you explain where that notion came from, Well.

Speaker 15 (35:46):
From the contents of the letter basically, and the nature
of the phone call, and she basically told Mum that
she wanted for us for Crystal to know her grandparents
and her parentage.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
From your knowledge of the relationship between Jonathan Winfield and
bron Winfield, does the fact that you were contacted by
Bronwin does that signify to you that bronwin had made
her mind up about the future of her relationship with Jonathan.

Speaker 15 (36:10):
Well, yes, it could also have meant that she may
have feared for herself. She was making sure that if
anything did happen to her, that Christel would be looked after.
Did she ever express that to you, No, not in
those words, but she definitely made her mind up that
she wasn't going to go back to John.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Matt Fordham raised Mark's recollections from his statement of what
Cristel had told Mark in around early nineteen ninety eight.
They included Crystal hearing her parents arguing, Crystal going to
bed at about eight point thirty, Crystal hearing a motorbike
pull up outside the house, and finally Cristel's disclosure that

(36:49):
her mum was a diagnosed schizophrenic who had not been
taking her medication.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Then he asked, all of these things that Crystal has
told you, do you know what the source of that
information was?

Speaker 15 (37:02):
Well, I now believe it was something she was told,
not what she actually remembers, because there's a couple of
things in there, like especially the part about the schizophrenia
and the pills, Well, it's just not true. So somebody
has implanted that thought in her at the stage the.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
Issue about the motorbike pulling up and hearing the sound
of the motorbike do you also believe that Crystal was
told that information?

Speaker 1 (37:26):
Oil, Well, I do yes. Bromwin's sister Kim Marshall told
police in nineteen ninety eight that John had told her
shortly after Broman's disappearance that she had been running around
town on the back of a motorbike and flirting with
men around town. He'll recall hearing Andy Reid talking about

(37:46):
this in episode three.

Speaker 12 (37:50):
Jacko was a friend of the people that aimed the
takeaway shop that Bromin used to work there, and he
gave her a left home. So because he'd gave her
a left home on a motorbike, all of a sudden,
John's Oh, she's go there and around ten and she's
in another relationship with some boke. She's on the back
of a motorbike. He was very flustered about that.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
He didn't handle that well.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Matt Fordham continued, and what's your opinion as to the
source of that information about the motorbike.

Speaker 15 (38:17):
Well, I think it's either John's told her or Jody
or somebody's been telling her.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
That's what happened when Crystal was relating this story to
you in nineteen ninety seven or nineteen ninety eight. Did
she use any descriptive words about the sound of the motorbike? No,
did she describe its sound in any way, or did
she said she heard a motorbike pull up. She didn't
describe it, for example, the room of the motor or
that the dak dak of the Harley or anything like that. No,

(38:46):
I have nothing further, Your worship.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
John's lawyer had nothing to raise with Mark Davis, the
next witness, would leave a strong impression on the inquest.

(39:20):
Meghan reads lengthy stint under oath began with a stumble
from Matt Fordham.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
You are her sister, Is that correct? No, I'm her
first cousin, first cousin. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
There were two distinct parts to Meghan's evidence at the inquest.
There's what she said in two thousand and two as
a fierce defender of Bromwin, and then there are the
notes that the detective Graham Diskin talked in nineteen ninety three.
It's in those notes that a very different picture of
Bromwin is painted, and it purportedly is coming from Megan.

(39:56):
Megan was taken to those notes during her time at
the and it made for several intense exchanges particularly with
John's lawyer Craig Leggett. Now listeners to the podcast know
that Meghan is adamant that an impersonator, someone other than
her but pretending to be her, must have given Graham

(40:18):
Discan those comments and statements. In my first face to
face meeting with Megan at her home on Sydney's Northern Beaches,
I raised this issue and I asked her to go
to one of the key documents and read from it. Meg,
I'm just going to ask you to clearly and slowly

(40:41):
read that statement. Okay, this is not a signed statement
by Megan Reid. It is a document based on a
telephone conversation between Detective Graham Discan and a woman who
must have given him a name Megan read, But Megan
insists that it was not her. On the telephone to

(41:02):
the police officer in Ballina this.

Speaker 5 (41:04):
Date spoke to the cousin of the missing person Meghan read.
Meghan stated that she had twice spoken to the MP
Missing Personal Belief only days before her disappearance, and only
that she was able to recognize her voice, she would
not have believed that, in fact, it was Bromwin. Meghan

(41:27):
stated that the missing person was talking a lot of
rubbish but did not seem to be affected by drugs
or alcohol. Statements were made like you will all pay
none of you will know what is happening, and other
statements that meant nothing to Megan. Meghan stated that she
has no fears about John Winfield being involved in anything

(41:52):
untoward so far as his wife's disappearance is concerned. In
the past, she has questioned Bromwin over her attitude and
lies about John, and Bromwin admitted that she was seeking attention.
She believes that John is a great father and care
of the two children involved in the marriage, and would

(42:14):
do nothing to upset the children. Meghan also believes that
in the past Bromwan was a user of cannabis and
described her as a flower child, believing that she may
well be living on a commune somewhere. She also had
a passion for money and was on the lookout for
a rich male to care for her if the opportunity arose. Absolutely, Booter,

(42:40):
I never ever would say that John told me that
she was at the age of Aquarius commune. This is
John's words. It's just so far from true. I mean,
I don't understand this at all. I didn't even know
it existed until recently, and I'm very upset about it,
which is I didn't do it.

Speaker 10 (43:02):
Now.

Speaker 5 (43:02):
The coroner at the coronal inquest tried to subpoena started discan,
but unfortunately he went off on the medical stress leeve
or something, and he had medical exemption from being subpoened
in court.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
And Meghan had told Glenn Taylor in nineteen ninety eight
that Bromwin said John had threatened her if she ever
made a claim on his house, threatened Bromwin how exactly.
At the inquest, Meghan went further, John, Meghan said, had
threatened to kill Bromwin if she ever tried to claim
the house. Matt Fordham kicked things off by asking Megan

(43:46):
about a conversation that she said she had with Bromwin
when Bromwin confided something about what John had said.

Speaker 5 (43:54):
Bromwin has always told me that John had lost previous
homes when they lost either through settlement or whatever, homes
that he built to previous wives, and he was determined
at this one he would never lose, you know. And
she told me that he would kill her before he
let her have that house.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Do you remember where you were when she told you.

Speaker 5 (44:16):
That she told me that on numerous occasions over the years.
It's not just once.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
And when she was telling you this in person, was
she describing any event that prompted her to say this
to you or was she putting it in any context?

Speaker 5 (44:32):
Well, certainly when she was in the townhouse at the end,
she was very concerned for her safety, definitely, and I
was too, I was concerned for her safety.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
Are you able to recall, ma'am, when the first occasion
that she'd use the words that John would kill her?
Are you able to remember, Oh, well.

Speaker 5 (44:48):
That would have been back in Cranullah, when she was
describing to me how possessive he was and how he
kept her. He would not let her see her friends,
and he would only give her a very small amouth
money for food. You know, she had to budget for everything.
He was very you know, dictated everything to her.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Did Jonathan ever have any conversations with you about the
loss of two previous houses to previous wives.

Speaker 5 (45:16):
I don't know. I don't recall that. I didn't talk
to John about that.

Speaker 11 (45:20):
No.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
The claims and counterclaims around what John lost or gained
after the end of his relationships with previous Partners will
become part of a later episode. It arises again in
the evidence. At the inquest, Matt Fordham brought Megan to
a matter that had caused bromin a lot of distress.

Speaker 5 (45:42):
Are you talking about the abortion here?

Speaker 14 (45:44):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (45:45):
Yes, she wanted to have the baby.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
And how was it that she came to make the
decision to abort the pregnancy.

Speaker 5 (45:52):
John said she couldn't have the baby.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
That was it.

Speaker 5 (45:55):
She had to have an abortion.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
The police officer asked her about a conversation in late
nineteen ninety two in which Bromwin disclosed John physically assaulting her.

Speaker 5 (46:07):
Yes, she told myself and my family, and she told
us that John had picked up a chair and thrown
it at her. She had bruises too. We saw her
in Sydney when she told us that.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Do you remember whereabouts on her body you saw bruises?

Speaker 5 (46:21):
They were on her legs. I think, look, I'm not
really one hundred percent sure about that, but I do
remember her telling me, telling us I should say about
that the family.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
But on the occasions or do you remember how long
it was before she disappeared that you saw bruises on her?

Speaker 5 (46:39):
Yes, definitely, that was the Christmas. Well, it would have
been Boxing Day, I think when they came for lunch,
and then John disappeared and he didn't come back for lunch,
and she stayed with my parents for a week before
they flew her back to Lennox said, and Crystal, I
should say alone.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Matt Fordham asked further questions about the Boxing Day lunch,
where Meghan recalled John had returned to Lennox Head without warning,
leaving Bromwin and the children stranded in Sydney. And you
heard about this in episode two.

Speaker 3 (47:14):
Boxing Day was.

Speaker 5 (47:15):
To read Christmas always, the whole turkey and all the
rest of it, and so bonn Win and the family
were all there.

Speaker 16 (47:22):
He never would have thought anything was wrong, no fight
for whatever. And he said he'd be back by one day,
two o'clock for lunch. Well he never showed up and
it wasn't tull about nine hours later that we found
it as he was back at Lenox Shared but he
had just driven back.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
What was his explanation for just taking.

Speaker 5 (47:39):
Off all there wasn't run. We never got an explanation.
Where were godsmacks?

Speaker 1 (47:46):
Matt Fordham asked Megan to recount these events.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
How did Brown react? When she was stranded by Jonathan.

Speaker 5 (47:53):
She wasn't surprised at all and she was happy actually,
and Kristal was too. I mean they were given free rein.
I think she was very relaxed.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
Matt Fordham then turned to phone conversations that Meghan said
that she'd had with Bromwin while Bromin was living away
from John in Byron Street, Lennox Head and John was
working in Illawong in Sydney.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
And did she indicate to you what her attitude towards
her marriage was.

Speaker 5 (48:20):
She was terrified of John. It was over, absolutely over.
I heard John banging on the door. I could hear
him yelling and screaming. I mean I heard that. She
told me lots of events where he'd shown violence. She
had actually ripped the phone out of the wall at
one stage to stop him ringing. She was terribly fearful.

(48:41):
She told me that she had contacted a solicitor and
been told to take possession back of the house because
possession being nine tenths of the law, and she also
had no money and no family.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
Just firstly, ma'am, referring to the phone being ripped out
of the wall by Bronwin, did that occur at the
flat or the house.

Speaker 5 (49:01):
At the flat, and I actually spoke to Crystal about
this and she remembers the event she was there.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Matt Fordham asked Meghan about the banging on the door
of Bromwin's flat and whether Meghan could say with confidence
that it was John Well.

Speaker 5 (49:17):
I believe so, and I can't imagine anybody else doing that,
and she was yelling at him to stop and go away.
I know also that she wanted soul custody of the
children and she was trying to just keep well away
from him, and she wouldn't let the children near him.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
You mentioned that she had disclosed to you that she
had spoken to a solicitor about correct that's.

Speaker 5 (49:39):
Where she wanted to get some money from my parents.
She needed a retainer to keep that solicitor and he
had told her to move back into the house immediately,
which she did, and you know what happened.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Matt Fordham asked Meghan about Bromin's decision to move back
in on the afternoon of Friday, May fourteen, nineteen nineteen.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
And did she indicate to you what she feared may
have happened had Jonathan found out that she was living
inside the house.

Speaker 5 (50:08):
Well, she'd always indicated that he would kill her if
she tried to get the house.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
The police officer turned to another topic, Meghan's diary entries.
In nineteen ninety three, they presented a documentary record which
noted conversations and events that occurred after Bromin's disappearance. Matt
Fordham had some of the pages in front of him
as he asked Meghan questions and sought to clarify key

(50:34):
dates and details. He took Meghan to an entry dated Friday,
May fourteenth and presented her with a photocopy of the page.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
You recorded that Bromwin moved home for some reason. Solicitor
or clairvoyant John flew up to find out. She told
him she had op opportunity to have holiday and left
with guy don't know who. John bundled up the kids
and took to Sydney. Ma'am, do you remember whether it
was your usual habit at the time to make the entry?

Speaker 5 (51:04):
This has been written afterwards?

Speaker 2 (51:05):
Sorry, just listen to the questions, mayor Yes, sorry, you
said that it had been written afterwards. Do you remember
how long after fourteen May you'd made the entry? On
that day?

Speaker 5 (51:17):
I could tell if I had the next diary page,
thank you, it's been written here. Let me see, I'll
make sure it's right here, i'd say. On the next week,
the Friday, the twenty first, it looks like the same pen.
I don't know why, but I did.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
And so it's the case that at some stage, perhaps
a week later, you'd gone back and made the entry
on fourteen May. Is that correct?

Speaker 5 (51:42):
I believe so, Yes, well, I must have. I must
have written that when I spoke to John and he
told me that she was gone. And then because I
spoke to her and she told me the solicitor had
told her to move back into the house and that's
what she was doing. I actually spoke to her at
the house, okay, when she was back there, before John

(52:03):
had gone up there.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
He asked Megan about the regular phone calls she shared
with Bromwin.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
Did it strike you as strange that the phone calls ceased?

Speaker 5 (52:13):
Absolutely? Absolutely, I can't believe it.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
He took Megan back to the diary note about Bromwin
supposedly taking an opportunity to take a holiday and leaving
with an unknown male.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
The source of that information was that Jonathan Winfield.

Speaker 5 (52:29):
Yes, that's correct, do you ever hear.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
From any other friend or relative of Bronwyn that she
had left with a guy?

Speaker 5 (52:36):
No, I didn't.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
Was it ever suggested to you by anyone other than
Jonathan Winfield that she had left to have a holiday?

Speaker 5 (52:44):
Absolutely? No one. No a holiday for two days?

Speaker 7 (52:48):
Two days.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Did Jonathan tell you that Bronwin said anything that time?

Speaker 5 (52:53):
Nothing apart from oh, I'm glad you're here. I've had
the opportunity to go away for the weekend, and would
you I'm looking after the kids.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
See you, and you're quite firm on would you mind.

Speaker 5 (53:06):
I'm quite firm on that because I was so surprised.
I can't believe that. I couldn't believe that Bromwin would
say that. I just don't believe it.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Did Jonathan indicate to you who it may have been
that she had left with the clairvoyant?

Speaker 5 (53:21):
He told me that Bromwin believed the Clearvoyant is a
reincarnagent something or other of her father.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
Meghan's diary entries are a compelling record of what John
Winfield purportedly said to Megan in May nineteen ninety three.
It's there in black and white, dated at the time
the conversations were said to have happened. The police investigation
had ruled out any possible involvement from the tarot card

(53:50):
reader and clairvoyant known as Pendragon. He had even been
placed under police surveillance in nineteen ninety three as part
of the Detective Graham Diskin's investigation. Matt Fordham continued with
Megan's diary entries by bringing her to one maid on
May twenty five, nineteen ninety three, a day when John,

(54:11):
with Crystal and Lauren visited Meghan in Sydney.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
Ma'am, you say that, or it's recorded in your diary
that John, Cristal and Lauren coming to stay today tonight.
Both kids and John need therapy desperately. And then you say,
Crystal told me that Braun told her that John is
not her father Mark Davis is. She does not want
to know him. She said that Braun ripped the phone

(54:37):
off the wall. Lauren very withdrawn. Crystal does need help, therapy,
wants to stay with me. And then you say that
you remember Jonathan and the kids arriving here. Yes, And
in your statement, ma'am, you say that Jonathan told you
that Bronwyn had gone off with some guy in a car,
that she was due back home in Lennox Head in
a few days.

Speaker 5 (54:57):
That's correct. Myself and my husband at that time was there.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
It is interesting to note that Meghan wrote in her
diary in May nineteen ninety three that Crystal had disclosed
bromwhen ripping the telephone off the wall. The police officer
asked about John's demeanor on his visit to Meghan's home
in Sydney.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
And ma'am also in your statement, you describe his demeanor
at the time. Do you remember what it was?

Speaker 5 (55:24):
I've honestly never seen anything like it before. He was shaking,
He was practically frothing at the mouse. I was terrified.
I didn't know what had happened, but I knew that
it was something more than someone missing. I just didn't know.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
What sort of emotions. Did Jonathan's behavior depicted to.

Speaker 5 (55:41):
You someone who was on the verge of a nervous breakdown.
I believed I believed he was either having one or
he was on the verge of one.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
When you say that he was shaking, he was.

Speaker 5 (55:52):
Shaking, he was crying, he was babbling, and the children
were just in shock. They were just white and wide
eyed and staring and not doing anything. It was really sad. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Could it have been that Jonathan was distressed about the disappearance, I.

Speaker 5 (56:09):
Very much doubt it. I mean it was over the top,
it really was. He needed help. I believed at that
stage he needed help, some serious psychiatric help, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
And ma'am, also later in your diary on twenty six,
may you record that John and the kids left at
four thirty am. Yes, And I take it that they
were leaving to return to Lennox Head. Is that correct?

Speaker 5 (56:34):
Yes, I'd say so.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
On twenty seven May, ma'am, you've recorded in your diary,
John arrived home, no sign of brawn. He talked to
her friends who thought she was on the verge of
a breakdown or having one. Yes, has been seeing a
clairvoyant on a regular basis. Thinks that it's her dad
in a spirit form.

Speaker 5 (56:55):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
That information. Were you able to confirm that information from
anybody else?

Speaker 5 (57:01):
No, absolutely not. John told me that information. He also
told me that they had found himself and I believe
the landlord of the townhouse numerous empty bottles of alcohol,
empty packets are valium in there when she vacated, So
he indicated that she might be like, you know, an
alcoholic drug addict as well.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
And the information that the clairvoyant, that Bromwin may have
thought that clairvoyant was her father in spirit form. Did
Bromwin ever disclose that to you directly?

Speaker 5 (57:32):
Brown never spoke to me about a clairvoyant whatsoever ever,
never heard of it.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
And so Jonathan was the source of that information, that's correct.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
Matt Fordham brought Megan to a diary entry dated Monday
July twelve, just under two months after Bromwin's disappearance, and.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
You'd agree there that on that date there is a
record that says John found that Braun returned whilst he
was away. She had took her close and his genes photos,
left a signed Medicare check, he.

Speaker 5 (58:05):
Said, basically with the genes going, he said to me
that he believed she had a boyfriend and therefore he'd
taken the genes also the photos of the children, and
left assigned Medicare check and taken all her personal possessions.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
Matt Fordham next turned to Meghan's evidence in her nineteen
ninety eight police statement that John had made several disclosures
to her about Bromwin being seen alive after May nineteen
ninety three. It must have been clear to the inquest
by now that Meghan and John had stayed in regular
close contact. There were three separate conversations where Meghan remembered

(58:43):
John telling her that Bromwin was alive and had been seen.
Meghan recalled John telling her that Bromwin had been found
by police at Coff's Harbor, at a commune known as
the Age of Aquarius. Matt Fordham asked if Meghan had
shared this information with any members of the family.

Speaker 5 (59:01):
Look, everybody, I spoke to, everybody I knew about it.
Of course we were also worried about Bromwin.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
Have you heard that information from anybody other than Jonathan Winfield.

Speaker 11 (59:13):
No.

Speaker 5 (59:14):
In fact, when I confirmed it with the police, I
found out it was not true.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
When you say you confirmed it with the police, did
you make some inquiries with the Coff's Harbor police.

Speaker 5 (59:25):
No, not Coff's Harbor. I rang balin of police eventually.
I don't know when, but I did, and I found
it wasn't true because I wanted it to be true.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Meghan could not recall the second occasion, when John purportedly
told her that police had found Bromwin alive, but Meghan
could remember the third occasion. She said it was when
John visited her while she was on holiday with her
parents and children in Queenland, possibly in early nineteen ninety seven.

Speaker 5 (59:57):
He was coming for lunch to my parents' apartment which
I was staying in for the school holidays with my children,
for lunch and he ended up staying for four days
or something, not that he was invited.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
And you say in your statement, ma'am, that Jonathan told
you that Bronwin was alive and well and living in Brisbane.
That's correct, but that he didn't elaborate any further and
didn't want to say much more about it.

Speaker 5 (01:00:20):
He told me that she had been found and he
told me that he had seen her, and he told
her not to come back now because he didn't want
her to hurt children anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
This last bit from Meghan that the inquest was new.
Meghan had told Glen Taylor in nineteen ninety eight that
on this holiday in Queensland in early nineteen ninety seven,
John told her that Roman had been found by police
in Brisbane and that he didn't want anything to do
with her. But if Meghan had told Glen Taylor in

(01:00:53):
nineteen ninety eight what she was telling the inquest in
two thousand and two, which was that John said he'd
actually talked to Bronwin and told her not to come back.
Then it had not made its way into her nineteen
ninety eight signed statement. John's lawyer, Craig Leggett must have
been relishing the opportunity to cross examine Megan about these discrepancies.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Do you remember what Jonathan's demeanor was when he told
you about this?

Speaker 5 (01:01:23):
It was very matter of fact, completely, Look, it was
very clear I was not to speak to the children
at all about the disappearance. I never could and he
never spoke about it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
Did Jonathan ever indicate to you that he was disappointed
that Bronwin hadn't returned from her brief holiday.

Speaker 5 (01:01:41):
No, he said he wouldn't take it back if she
wanted to come.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
Back, ma'am. Obviously, being a close friend of Bronwin, you
would have an opinion as to how she felt towards
her children.

Speaker 5 (01:01:53):
She was the most devotion mother I've ever come across.
All she ever wanted was the picket fence and the family.
That's it, I mean, that's all she'd ever said to me.
From you know, little kids when we were growing up together.
She had asked me, just prior to my marriage in
December nine eighty six, if in the event anything happened
to her, that I would take.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
Crystal Bromwin's cousin, Megan Reed made a startling new disclosure.
It occurred during a short break from Morning Tea. The
police officer and lawyer Matt Fordham asked Megan about it
when she was back behind the witness stand.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Ma'am, just when we adjourned a short time ago for
morning Tea. Is it the case that you approached me
inside the courtroom here and told me something that Crystal
had told you.

Speaker 5 (01:02:42):
Yes, that's correct.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
Could you tell us what that was?

Speaker 5 (01:02:46):
This was, I'd say early December of last year. Crystal
told me, when she was in the car driving back
to Sydney on the night that her mother disappeared, that
she knew she would never see her mother again.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Did she say why she felt that way?

Speaker 5 (01:03:02):
She just said she felt that way she knew she'd
never see her again.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
Matt Fordham had finished with Megan's nineteen ninety eight police statement.
He turned now to the statements recorded in Detective Sergeant
Graham Diskin's running sheets in nineteen ninety three those controversial
comments which were purportedly uttered by Megan and noted by
Discan just a brief recap. The entry dated September two,

(01:03:30):
nineteen ninety three noted that Discan had talked to Megan
Reid and she'd told him that she had spoken to Bromwin.
In the days leading up to her disappearance. Graham Diskin
wrote that Megan told him that Bromwin was talking a
lot of rubbish and had made statements like you will
all pay and none of you will know what is happening.

(01:03:55):
Matt Fordham read these statements aloud in the courtroom, and
Meghan jumped in to offer for an explanation.

Speaker 5 (01:04:02):
I now know what that meant. She had approached my
parents to borrow money to retain a solicitor, and my
parents had denied her that, and she was very upset
with the family, and she had felt that we had
betrayed her, and that's what that was about. And she
was very angry, and she thought that I knew about it,
and I didn't know anything about it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
And Sergeant Diskin says that these conversations occurred days before
her disappearance. Do you remember how long it was before
she disappeared.

Speaker 5 (01:04:33):
It was only days before her disappearance that she had
retained the solicitor who told her to, you know, move
back into the house. So yes, because that was yes,
it was the last time my mother spoke to her
was when my mother said to her that she couldn't
have the money.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Did you ever tell Sergeant Discan that Bromwin told you
none of you will know what is happening.

Speaker 5 (01:04:56):
I might have. I don't know what that meant, though.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
You can't think of any particular issues that may have
prompted you to say that may have been the context
for that comment from Bronwin, I.

Speaker 5 (01:05:06):
Don't know, but I do know that it was about
the money, the money issue, and that she did feel
that we had let her down.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Ma'am, I'll just read out the next paragraph of the
report and I'll ask you to comment on the source
of the information and the context of it also, Sergeant
Discan reports. Megan stated that she has no fears about
John Winfield being involved in anything untoward so far as
his wife's disappearance is concerned. In the past, she has

(01:05:36):
questioned Bronwin over her attitude and lies about John and
Bronwin admitted that she was seeking attention.

Speaker 5 (01:05:44):
I don't remember saying that, and it goes against my
character to say that, because I've always maintained he was
involved right from the word go. I couldn't see that
there could be possibly any other reason.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
And is it the case that you suggest that Sergeant
Diskin's comments there are incorrect, Yes, I do. Can you
think of anything that you may have said to Sergeant
Discan that may have led him to believe that that
was your attitude?

Speaker 5 (01:06:10):
I have no idea how that could have happened, I
honestly do.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
Not, ma'am. Sergeant Discan also records she believes that John
is a great father and career of the two children
involved in the marriage, and would do nothing to upset
the children. Meghan also believes that in the past, Ronon
was a user of cannabis and described her as a
flower child, believing that she may well be living on

(01:06:34):
a commune somewhere. She also had a passion for money
and was on the lookout for a rich male to
care for her if the opportunity arose.

Speaker 5 (01:06:44):
Oh my god, that's not true, Absolutely not true. Absolutely.
I would never say that, Absolutely not, not unless I've
lost my mind completely. No, I would never say that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
It must have been an uncomfortable time for Megan Red.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
Can you think of anything that you may have said
to Sergeant Discan that may have led him to believe
that that was.

Speaker 5 (01:07:06):
I could only be repeating things that John had told me.
Apart from that, there's absolutely no way I would have
said that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
I understand that that's your belief today. Could it have
been your belief in September nineteen ninety three.

Speaker 5 (01:07:18):
It's been my belief from the word go. No, I
could never have believed that about Bronwyn, never, not ever,
There's not even his largest possibility.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
The report continues. It says Megan stated that Bronwin has
always been upset over the death of her father some
years ago, and by the fact that she was luckless
in his estate because he was a bankrupt at the
time of his death.

Speaker 5 (01:07:44):
I didn't know that. Excuse me, until right now. I
didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
No, Sergeant Diston goes on, ma'am. He says, all monies
went to paying outstanding debts. Bronwin, until just prior to
her disappearance, has been supported for money from Megan's father.
Bronwin's uncle. However, he has declined to continue in that vein,
and Bronwin was somewhat upset by that is that information.

Speaker 5 (01:08:09):
My father never maintained her whatsoever. And I don't believe
that was me that spoke to him. It was over
the telephone. It wasn't me. It definitely wasn't me. None
of this is true.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
Do you know any other members of the family that
may have given this information to There is.

Speaker 5 (01:08:27):
Nobody that spoke to the police other than myself and
my mother and my father. And I was with the
police when they interviewed my parents. And I know for
a fact that she wanted the money to retain a solicitor,
and they didn't come forward with the money. And that
is the only time my father did not support Bromwin,
only when she was left there at the house in

(01:08:49):
the previous December. I don't believe that was me who
spoke to whoever that was.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
And you understand that, of course, I'm not criticizing you
in any way, I know.

Speaker 5 (01:09:01):
But you understand, of course my position. That's not me.
I didn't say any of those things.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
There may well have been some errors that were were
not errors.

Speaker 5 (01:09:09):
That's totally untrue.

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
That Forham explored the possibility with Megan that someone else
had made a phone call two Graham Diskin in nineteen
ninety three, pretending to be her.

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
Yes, I understand that, ma'am. Could you tell us do
you remember what your telephone number in Sydney was in
nineteen ninety three?

Speaker 5 (01:09:29):
Oh? Gee, I don't know. Nineteen ninety three could have
been zero, two four something or other?

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
Was your phone number four four nine nine seven eighty five?

Speaker 5 (01:09:42):
That's right?

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
And do you remember who else was living with you
at that telephone number at that time?

Speaker 5 (01:09:49):
My husband and my children and friends coming and going.
But no, I don't look, I just.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
Don't know, ma'am. For the sake of completeness, I will
continue with the things that Sergeant Diskin has recorded in September,
and I'll ask you to comment on them also, he says.
Megan also reiterated the fact that her mother did exactly
the same thing some years ago, and believes that one
day she will walk back into the family home as
if nothing happened, due to her state of mind at

(01:10:18):
the time of her disappearance. No, have you ever discussed
that issue with Sergeant Diskin.

Speaker 5 (01:10:25):
I don't know whether I've discussed that issue, but I
don't believe that Bromwell was anything like her mother. I
discussed with a psychiatrist at the time of her disappearance,
right or shortly thereafter, when John suggested to me that
perhaps she was like her mother, I discussed with the
psychiatrist whether you know what we would see of and

(01:10:45):
I didn't believe ever that she was of anything other
than sound mind. I mean, her mother was a completely
different situation, ma'am.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
If you had spoken to the police investigating the disappearance
of Bronwin would have been something that you would have
recorded in your diary.

Speaker 5 (01:11:03):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:11:05):
Do you know whether there are any diary entries that
relate to when was this in September of nineteen ninety three,
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (01:11:13):
The rest of the diary is not here. I don't know,
but I mean those things, I mean, I've never ever
thought that about Bromwin never. I've always sort of been
a champion for Bromwin. I mean, I've always felt that
she's the underdog.

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
I've nothing further, your worship.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
John's lawyer, Craig Leggett, was far more pointed in his
questioning Meghan had made very serious allegations about his client,
John wanted these taken head on. Craig Leggett began with
a discrepancy. It revolved around what Meghan claimed that John
had told her while visiting her on holiday in Queensland

(01:11:55):
about Bromwin being seen in the state capital of Brisbane.

Speaker 6 (01:12:00):
Miss read, I want to deal with the allegation that
you've made this morning that mister Winfield said to you
words to the effect I've seen Bromwin in Brisbane and
I've told her not to come home.

Speaker 5 (01:12:11):
That's correct.

Speaker 6 (01:12:13):
You're aware you're on oath, aren't you.

Speaker 5 (01:12:15):
Yes, I am, Yes, I am.

Speaker 6 (01:12:18):
You can search in vain in your written statement for
any reference to a conversation where John Winfield told you
that he had actually seen Bronman and that he had
said to her don't come home. It's just not in
your statement, is it.

Speaker 5 (01:12:32):
Well, it may not be, but it happened.

Speaker 6 (01:12:35):
Is there a reason why it's not in your statement?

Speaker 5 (01:12:37):
Probably because I've forgotten about it. I don't know. But
he told me on many occasions that she had been cited,
so I didn't believe it anyway, but I know where
it happened and when it happened.

Speaker 6 (01:12:49):
Just pausing there you said. Just then you said, he
told me on many occasions she had been cited, didn't she?

Speaker 5 (01:12:57):
That's right by the police, like was or they knew
where she was well?

Speaker 6 (01:13:03):
Cited? Is the word you volunteered?

Speaker 5 (01:13:06):
Well? Cited? Well, they knew where she was had been found?
Sorry was the word no?

Speaker 6 (01:13:13):
When you said found?

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
Now?

Speaker 9 (01:13:14):
All right?

Speaker 5 (01:13:15):
Cited? Found? That's what I meant to you.

Speaker 6 (01:13:18):
It's the same, is it sighting and being found?

Speaker 5 (01:13:21):
Well, yes, she's alive, then, isn't she if she's been cited?

Speaker 6 (01:13:25):
Yes, So you agree with me that most likely Jonathan
Winfield said to you there have been sightings of Bronwin.

Speaker 5 (01:13:33):
No, Well, which on which occasion are we referring to?

Speaker 6 (01:13:39):
Well, you referred to numerous occasions when he.

Speaker 5 (01:13:42):
Said, no, on which occasion are you referring to?

Speaker 6 (01:13:45):
At the moment I'm asking the questions. A moment ago
in the witness box on oath, you said words to
the effect Jonathan told me on numerous occasions that bronwin
had been cited. That's what you said, wasn't it?

Speaker 5 (01:14:01):
Yes? I think so.

Speaker 6 (01:14:02):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
Craig Leggott turned to Megan's recollection of John's visit to
her with the children in Sydney on May twenty five,
nine days after Bromin's disappearance. Meagan described John in her
statement as a shaking, crying mess, adding that he had
put it across that he was upset that Bromwin had
taken off with another man.

Speaker 6 (01:14:26):
Now, can I suggest to you that in your written
statement what you were endeavoring to convey was that Jonathan
was putting on an act and that you could see
through it.

Speaker 5 (01:14:36):
No, that's not correct. I didn't believe he was acting.

Speaker 6 (01:14:40):
Well, what did you mean by he put it across
that he was upset.

Speaker 5 (01:14:46):
Well, because I believe that. I didn't believe he was
upset that she got off with another man. I didn't
believe that anybody could be in that state over something
so well another man, because I just I didn't believe it.
It seemed very unusual for somebody to be in that
kind of situation.

Speaker 1 (01:15:06):
If those present had any doubt about John's lawyer's view
of Megan's credibility and her evidence, then those doubts were
dispelled with the next question.

Speaker 6 (01:15:17):
Now, what I'm suggesting to you is that, for some
reason best known to you in the witness box today,
you are embellishing you are to use the vernacular being
a drama queen. Now I want to give you an
opportunity to address that allegation.

Speaker 1 (01:15:33):
Tensions in the courtroom were already high, but they were
about to elevate further as John's lawyer tightened the screws
on Bromman's friend and cousin, Megan Reid. Is written and

(01:16:01):
investigated by me Headley Thomas as a podcast production for
The Australian. If anyone has information which may help solve
this cold case, please contact me confidentially by emailing Bronwyn
at the Australian dot com dot au. You can read
more about this case and see a range of photographs

(01:16:24):
and other artwork at the website Bronwyn podcast dot com.
Our subscribers and registered users here episodes first. The production
and editorial team for Bromwin includes Claire Harvey, Kristin Amiot,
Joshua Burton, Bridget, Ryan Bianca, far Marcus, Katie Burns, Liam Mendez,

(01:16:46):
Sean Callen, Matthew Condon and David Murray, with assistance from
Isaac Iron's. Audio production for this podcast series is by
Wasabi Audio and original theme music by Slade Gibson. We
have been assisted by Madison Walsh, a relation of Bromwin Winfield.

Speaker 6 (01:17:04):
We can only do this kind of journalism with.

Speaker 1 (01:17:07):
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(01:17:29):
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