June 24, 2021 • 58 mins
Diversity has been a buzzword at the center of the value statements of so many organizations so long, that in 2021 it is shocking to discover just how much inequity still exists. In this episode, Diversity, Equity and Inclusion expert, Dr. Yewande Austin is dropping gems with Devi Brown about why “diversity” doesn’t work.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Mm from grandmothers who whispered in their baby girl in
two fathers on dimly lit street corners, instructing young soldiers
to always keep their eyes open. You be queen, you
(00:21):
were fired. You will pass through centuries on the hands
of your daughters. They called you wisdom. Proverbs on the
backs of diamond eyed school children who growing into hymnals
recited by amethyst holding urban philosophers who recited neighborhood commandments
out of the windows of restored Alchemedo chariots to keep
the warmth of their blood, be wise, be smart, being black,
(00:46):
Opal Brown courts bloodstone and prayer. Be every form of
jim se King told, scribe, scribe, told son, son, told wife,
wife told her daughter, and daughter told the as this is.
And the ancestors told me that you would come to
give wisdom thousands. They said you would come, Dropping Dropping Gen. Hey,
(01:11):
welcome back another episode of the Dropping Gen's podcast. Thank
you for being here. I'm your host, Deverie Brown. Connect
with me on I g at Debbie Brown and I
want to do a huge shout out to everybody at
the Black Effect Network and I Heart Radio. That is
where my show is so happy to live. But of
course you can always connect with the show in all
the ways that you listen to podcasts. Today's episode, we
(01:33):
are diving into diversity, equity inclusion. This is an area
we have not um so specifically touched on in this
show yet. But I find this moment in time really fascinating,
especially as we are now having these conversations in such
an expansive way globally. And the way that I'm kind
(01:56):
of experiencing it and noticing it is this down no
effect right, Like, I feel that really and this is
still unfolding, um but so many marginalized communities, oppressed communities globally,
we are each in many ways having a moment in
(02:16):
the sun where certain things that have been the norm
for us but not known for everyone are being brought
to the forefront and being shared and said explicitly and plainly.
And the way that I recognize the impact of this
moment is that it is all in service to our
collective ascension and the elevation of our consciousness. And this
(02:37):
is a moment that is thousands of years overdue and
our millions of years overdue. Depending on who you act
and what evolutionary timetable you may be following, UM. But
you know, this past year, I think for many of
us was really interesting in watching, especially at the top
of the pandemic, when social unrest was really at a
(02:59):
height for us here in the US, it was really
interesting watching how little ah non communities of color knew
about the experiences outside of themselves. I think for me, though,
I think we that's been plainly clear for all of us. UM.
(03:21):
It was really deepened for me because I do have
sometimes the habit of assuming that everyone is like me,
even though I know very differently. UM. But I do
always have this this belief inside of me sometimes that
we are all coming from a space of knowledge, wisdom
(03:42):
and compassion. UM. And of course you know, we're all
on our own journeys. And in this moment, I remember, UM,
James Baldwin said this really perfectly, and I'm paraphrasing now,
but it was eye opening for me in a clip
I was watching of him speaking on a television show
and he said, we have always known how your lives operate.
(04:09):
You know, you've never known about ours. But every film
that comes out, every major story, every book, every major
theme has always centered around whiteness and the goodness of whiteness.
And because whiteness has been at the forefront of the
way that we experience ourselves. Um, we've known complexities of
(04:31):
whiteness very well, you know, I think just being alive
in America, based on our movies, based on the magazines,
based on the advertisements, based on the books, based on
the magazines, based on the history taught in schools, we
know what it is at every intersection of whiteness. We
know what it is to be poor white. We know
(04:51):
what it is to be rich white. We know what
it is to be blue collar white. We know what
it is to be um, you know, disenfranchised white. Like
we know all of the spectrum of the stories and um,
the challenges and the different degrees that a full spectrum
of white people experience. And I think for a lot
(05:14):
of people it gets a little lost on us that, yeah,
we have the depth of this understanding of that experience
in a multitude of ways, but it's not reciprocated, it's
not reflected. There is so much that is unknown about
the experiences of people who are not in the position
(05:38):
of power in this country. And so I think that
that has really lent itself, um to a fascinating moment
in time. You know, the reactions that we were seeing
that a lot of people had to the social unrest
because it was the first time they actually sat down
and had to witness it and had to know it.
(05:58):
And for us it was like, well for some of us, um,
it was like yeah, that's every single day since forever. Um.
So you know, with all of that, in the way
that it's expanded, there are more conversations than ever happening
in really non traditional places. You know, Um, we're in
our workspaces having sometimes really complex conversations around race, having
(06:25):
really complex conversations about money, about white supremacy, about so
many of the systemic structures in place and how they
affect everyone. And you know, a thing for me that
was that was a little bit irritating, um, when everything
(06:46):
was kicking off last year, was this kind of blanket
statement that was said as a catch all, especially by
a lot of companies, but by so many people on Instagram,
the posting of that black uh screen and then the
terminology of we're listening, we're learning, you know, and I
remember thinking, who crafted that? What is your real intention?
(07:09):
What do you mean by that? What are you studying?
What are you listening to, what are you learning and
how will that show up for active change? UM? So
today's conversation, let's dive into all of these things. UM.
You know, because we are where we are and we've
all chosen this human experience, so we're going to be
here for a while. But as is expanding, and as
(07:30):
new stories are being new stories are being told, um,
and as there is this very clear present shift happening
for all of us, all the billions of people on
the planet right now. UM, there's so much to look at.
So on today's show, I have a wonderful, wonderful guest
(07:51):
that was actually suggested to me, um by a powerful
listener of this show. And when I when I have
the opportunity to really look through her work, I just said, Wow,
this is somebody that has been really, really in a
powerful way showing up in the world and doing some
(08:13):
of this deeply complicated and heavy work for a very
long time. So today's guest on the show is Dr
Yewande Austin. She is recognized as an international expert injustice, equity,
diversity and inclusion. Dr Austin's work has touched over two
hundred and fifty thousand people in thirty countries, including twenty
(08:36):
three nations across the continent of Africa. She was honored
to serve as Virginia Governor Ralph Northam's former Special Advisor
to the Office of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion, the first
ever state agency of its kind in the Commonwealth of
Virginia and the nation. And to say that was in Virginia,
that's a big deal. For the last sixteen years, Dr
(08:58):
Austin Social Impact Consultancy One Change LLC has impacted over
three thousand academic institutions, government agencies, and nonprofit organizations through
programs that explore the powerful intersection between justice, equity, diversity
and inclusion, leadership, and innovation. Dr yo Wande Austin, Welcome
(09:20):
to the show. Thanks so much for having me. So
I think off top before we even get started, we
were having a beautiful talk about accessories. So anybody that
follows me, I'm a jewelry girl. I love adorning myself,
I love accessories. You came on screen looking just stunningly beautiful.
(09:40):
You have this gorgeous necklace on, and we both started
talking about how much we love, how much joy can
be found in that kind of adorning, but I find
it to also be such a sacred experience for me.
I think the more I connect with the deepest parts
of myself, um, the more of banded on my spiritual journey.
(10:02):
Everything serves a purpose, everything has a meaning, And so
when I'm putting on accessories, it's always so deeply intentional,
um and kind of there. It's this curation of how
I'm showing up in that moment. So, since you have
such beautiful accessories on it, I would love to know
what is your spiritual connection to the way that you
present in the world. M Well, I think that we
(10:25):
all have a story. I have never been attracted to
what the masses found to be appealing somehow as the
universe created me. I've always been connected to the road
less traveled, and that also relates to how I want
to present myself. You know, there was a time I
(10:47):
don't mind saying that I wore tracks and I were
we use and I I adorned myself with um things
that were synthetic that I thought represented and I deal
of beauty. It wasn't until I decided to celebrate an
honor my natural hair that I found beauty in that
(11:09):
which others didn't understand, but took a little bit more
effort to understand. Just like with so many women of
color and our hair, it takes time, and we are
so neger to get that immediate gratification in all things
that we're much more attracted to that than taking a
little bit more time to understand, to manage, to find
(11:31):
the beauty in that which is not apparent. And so
I found the same thing in my jewelry. I have
a piece of jewelry from every country in which I
have worked and in the communities where I have served,
and there's a story behind every piece, just like there
is on my neck today. This piece is actually from
the Democratic Republic of the Congo, although I purchased it
in Atlanta at one of my favorite shops, Afro Centric
(11:55):
Network on Lee Street, Little Plug and I'm gonna be
I'm in love with this. I'm gonna be checking out
their sight when we get off. It's amazing. But a
piece like this, for example, Debbie, is not one that
could be replicated. Why because it is created from scraps. Normally,
a lot of these pieces from Africa are created from scraps,
(12:18):
from the leftovers from parts either from machinery or from
wiring or trash that people thought were disposable, but someone
had the insight to lean in and find the beauty
in that piece. And so these are scraps of leather
that are wrapped around pieces of tire. You wouldn't know that,
(12:39):
But isn't that a metaphor for life that we are
all on a quest to find the beauty within ourselves?
And that's one of the things that I love about
your show, helping people become deeper connected with their inner selves.
Because it's easy to put on the adornments and look fabulous,
but how do you feel? What do you resonance every day?
How are you intentional showing up in the world. That's
(13:03):
really a beautiful, beautiful share and reflection and the thing
that comes up for me and it's I'm really connecting
to what you were saying as it relates especially to hair, uh,
like I have, I have a lot of hair. I
got long hair, it's really curly. Um and that my
curly hair was a big part of my life for
most of my life. And then I started using a
(13:24):
keratin treatment some years ago. So I've been on this
journey the last year of like retraining my curls and
being able to connect to the more natural state of myself.
UM one, because I really wanted to save time and too,
I just really enjoy my natural state. UM but a
piece that has been powerful for me as I'm kind
(13:45):
of trying to gently, without judgment, coax my natural being out. Um.
You know, a lot of us we make our own
like hair products right in our bathrooms, or we make
our own little refresher sprays for our curls to keep
you know, in between our wa is. And something that
I do is I do raiky on my curl refresher
(14:05):
each time that I make it, so I send it
energy and then I also put anointing oils in it.
And so sometimes that looks like a little frankincense and
mer sometimes it looks like special blends that I've concoct it.
And every time I'm looking to refresh my hair, I'm
also charging like my crown chakra and sprain like these
intentions into my scalp. And I've just found that it's
(14:27):
really been a beautiful piece of my process. And so,
you know, kind of as we fit. It's interesting, you know,
you do really big work in the world and and
we're gonna start unpacking all of that, and everyone was
able to hear some of our introduction. And but what
I found is, you know, early in my life, I
really rejected beauty in many ways, Like there were things
(14:49):
about attractiveness that I've rejected, and I was just like
way more concerned with being cerebral, way more concerned with
how I felt I was energetically showing up. And I
feel like I really rejected some of um, you know,
some of the qualities of like the divine feminine. I
was really stuck in some of my um masculine that
(15:13):
I had taken on for protection, right um and and
some some of that personal vigilance sometimes we take with
ourselves depending on our experiences. And part of the journey
that I found, as I'm always thinking deeper into my
authentic self is letting my natural inter radiance come out
(15:34):
and actually taking care with myself. When I was younger,
I was I was so in rejection of beauty and
my own appearance that I wouldn't spend time with myself.
I was working through this thought this week where I
was like, I wouldn't even deep condition my hair because
I resented the amount of time. It took right. I
didn't want to be in front of the mirror for
that long. And now it's one of the things that
(15:55):
I savor and really look forward to giving myself that care.
And I found that the way I care for myself
in that way that I used to think was a
little more vapid or you know, just maybe surface, it
actually allows me to show up really powerfully in my
work and really powerfully in the world. And I feel
(16:17):
cared for and I feel protected, and I also feel
like that investment that I put into me. UM. So
I just, yeah, that came forward for me as we
were kind of beginning this conversation. But Debbie, I so
relate to that. You know, the world that both of
us do today, UM didn't come overnight. It came through. UM.
(16:40):
I'm sure a lot of trials for me, early trauma
in my life, UM that put me into a cocoon
that took years for me to break free of. People
don't understand that today. They don't quite honestly believe me
that I was a wallflower in high school, that I
was that little girl that was really afraid of her shadow.
(17:02):
But I'm so grateful that there are people along the
way that saw the beauty within first that was so
important to my growth. Um And and when I also
think back to a time when I was just a
little girl and experienced some early traumas, and I remember
my mom um setting up our first apartment after she
(17:25):
had left my father and living in a closet for
the first several years of my life, and she saw
that I was angry. I was very sad as a
little girl. Um. It saddens her today to know that
I had very little joy as a child growing up
because I was burdened with so many of those adult
issues that a lot of children around the world are
(17:48):
introduced too far too early in their lives. And it
changes who you are. It shapes a very important part
of who you are, how you see yourself, and how
you show up in the world. But you know, there's
a very important lesson that my mom taught me very
early on that I'm grateful for to this day, and
that is I didn't have to be defined by my
circumstances and I could become better because of what I
(18:12):
had overcome. She taught me very early on that if
I were to succeed, to be happy, um, to walk
in the fullness of myself that it was my responsibility
and it came from within. That one lesson has served
as the ethos of my work around the world is
(18:32):
that no matter what it is that we're going through,
the answers to solve the world's greatest problems are within
their right there. But if we could get to a
point where we don't cover up, right, we're not covering
up with the things I talked about, the tracks and
the weaves, and this is no disrespect to anybody who
(18:53):
does wear them, but I think we have to think
about why we do these things. Why why do we
subscribe to serve ideals of beauty or how we should
show up in the world and put all of that energy,
not only the finance. I remember spending a lot of
money on that and going on and making sure I
had my lashes, although I must say I was rushing
(19:15):
to get my little false eyelashes on before my interview
because sometimes I feel naked without with you today without them,
And first I appreciate that, but before us to check ourselves,
like what is that in my brain? At a certain
point that said, I have to be lashing to have
a last fully on to watch the fullness of who
(19:38):
I am and to be fabulous. You already got it.
If you are true to yourself, even when people don't
believe in you, even when times get tough, your beauty
will radiate through uh like a little lash I have
stuck in my eye that I've been trying to move up.
(20:00):
But I for the first five minutes of our interview,
as my eyes have been watering, you will still radiate
through that. You will still rise above if you are
true to who you are. It's when we start listening
to the static and we start paying attention to images
and the narrative that other people put out there that
we should subscribe to. When we're not true to to
(20:22):
who we are, that's when we diminish our beauty. It's
it's so interesting actually to be leaning into this piece
of it and I think, um that this is a part.
This is a conversation I haven't had yet on this show,
like really in and I think it's powerful because I think,
I mean, you know, and the work which we're going
(20:44):
to step into is like one thing, but it's also
how do I drive my ship to be able to
show up for the calling on my life? Right? How
can I get so tapped into my inner radiance that
that is a piece I don't have to think a
lot of about because it's part of my ritual. It's
part of how I offer myself to God and myself
(21:07):
every day and in every way. And it's funny, Um,
you know, I remember when I was younger, and things
are a little different in this moment, Like the last
couple of years, we've we've come into such expansive conversations
around womanhood, around um, you know, all the societal contracts,
including the way that we view ourselves through leading advertisement
(21:27):
shows and all the things of the time. And so
I found for me that being in the global pandemic,
like being in my house for a year, not being
able to get my my nails and TOAs done, especially
in the first few months, or get my hair done,
which was my go to was always just go for
a blow dry because I didn't want to spend time
doing my hair by myself, you know, um, and really
(21:49):
like pouring down our clothes, and you know it, it
created like a moment for me where I felt the
most beautiful, like I really was able to just sit
and be with myself with all without all of the
trappings and also without any of the feedback, any of
the in person um you know, body language or comments
(22:13):
or experiences, and so you really get to know, like
what is leading me to whatever my look is or
however I want to present and each day and you know,
I remember when I was younger, especially when I was
working in radio, I used to do we have so
many interviews and you know, every other day, like we'd
have different artists or you know, people coming on to
to be on the show. And you know, sometimes you're tired,
(22:36):
you show up at work. You don't want to be
all blah blah blah, you know, blah blah bam. And
I was thinking. I was talking to a friend of mine,
my friend Saddi Simone, about this, and I was like,
I remember there was a time I used to apologize
for my face, you know, like if I was ever
ran into someone in public and I didn't happen to
have makeup on, or my hair was an a ponytail,
but like, oh my god, I'm sorry, don't look at
(22:57):
my face. And I put on like glasses, you know,
and I'd be wearing glasses inside like sunglasses, and I'm like,
oh sorry, I didn't I didn't have time to put
my makeup on today, or oh I didn't do my hair,
and that was a regular thing for women then, right,
And this wasn't that long ago, but it isn't now.
And that's really interesting to look at how how our
(23:18):
paradigm shifts happen and so instantaneous, and then everything is
different and we have these new permissions and now I'm
looking back like, how would I Why on earth would
I ever apologize for how I look to anyone? Why
would I ever give that amount of power to anyone?
Uh So, it's really Yeah, it's interesting to explore at
(23:41):
the different stages of our ages of life. You know,
how we the layers in which we can accept ourselves
feeding into the stereotypes we we've all been led him
up and really at some point been um um distracted
by external noise and allowed it to become our internal noise.
(24:07):
But this pandemic, with all of the catastrophic losses, the
destruction of our economy, of our comfort even within our
own spaces, because now we have to share them with
some people who we are questioning while we were with
them in the first place, and it has now forced
(24:30):
us to confront the external noise that we allowed into
our homes where now we have been contained to stay safe.
But we're finding Wait a minute, there's so much more
noise in this space than what I remembered before the pandemic.
Because I was able to leave, I was able to
escape that, I was able to pretend that it did
(24:51):
not exist. Stract now we have been forced to come
face to face with all of the lies that we
have fed into and it is time and all of
the personal betrayals that we may have even made to ourselves,
all of it, all of it. It's time for us
to get real about everything. In light of all of
(25:12):
the destruction that COVID has caused, it has also created
what I call an era of reawakening that we fell asleep.
I think we fell asleep after President Obama. We thought
there was no way that we could go back, and
we did not take advantage um of our rights to vote.
And we see where that got us. We have not
(25:34):
taken care of our bodies. We see where that has
gotten some of us with our our COVID weight. Maya
colpa I ate brownies. For about the first three months,
I was struggling with the transition listen, and I'm a
motivational speaker. But the motivational speaker was like, wait a minute, right,
it's something that had never been I've been through some
(25:55):
things deby brown and the life. I have survived a
heart attack, bilateral pneumonia. I work with human trafficking victims
and orphans and in conflict zones. I've been through some things.
I've seen some things. Haven't seen this one. So we
started neglecting our body and again tapping into other things
(26:17):
like brownies that made us feel made us think that
we felt better. For me, it was green tea ice cream.
I ate that every single night, Like I could not
go to bed without having some every single night of
the pandemic. Right, that's amazing. But it forced us to
get real aboutism in this country. As with the death
(26:41):
of George Floyd. I find it fascinating that it ignited
this fight against police brutality around the world, because in America,
will labor Wait a minute, this has been going on
for four hundred years. What made it different. It's because
we were forced to be still and everyone was four
to witness it, yes, and to not move around and
(27:04):
to not be distracted by the external noise. Now that
external noise became our internal pain, that we made a collective,
universal agreement. We were no longer okay by sitting still
and saying that was someone else's pain. I feel sorry
(27:24):
for George Floyd, but that's too bad that had happened
to him and his family. But that's not my problem.
And I thank God and the universe for that that
I think the entire world has finally seen we can
no longer subscribe to this idea that's that someone else's pain,
because when it affects one of us, it affects all
(27:46):
of us. And then we're so awakened that now we're
seeing case after case after case of Brianna Taylor and
Dante right, and we're saying, wait a minute, what's going on?
This has been going on, but rayism has not always
been as blatant as um hanging lynching. It has not
(28:06):
always been as blatant as police brutality. Now we are
so awake and alive that we're recognizing we also don't
have to work in spaces where we're not valued, we're
not receiving equitable compensation, where we psychologically don't feel safe,
where spiritually we feel we have been re enslaved in
(28:27):
some spaces. I've worked in some of those spaces, and
I can say during the pandemic, I'm saying, no, I'm free.
And we're recognizing now the critical intersection between our spiritual selves,
our social selves, and also our emotional selves, and that
they're also deeply connected. That we can no longer forsake
(28:48):
one of them just for the sake of getting ahead
financially or when it comes to our our beauty. None
of that matters, you know, at the core of it
is not what we embodied on earth to know. And
do you know there's so much more available. You've been
doing the work of diversity. I mean for just so
(29:09):
long globally. I'm really interested in your perspective of in
the last year especially. I think two of the well,
i'll say three of the words that I think kind
of took over our vernacular in one form of another
was mental health, wellness and diversity. And I remember, you know,
when when the social unrest really broke out around this
(29:31):
time last year, as you as you said, you know,
for many of us, it was like, yeah, this has
been happening every day since human existence, Like hello, you know,
but I think, Um, the thing that we noticed was
that everyone was called to quote unquote action. A lot
of it was performative, the black boxes, right, like the
(29:52):
we're listening, we're learning, you know, and and it's like, okay,
so what does that mean and what does that mean
in practice? But I'm really curious, um, having done this
work globally in in many different ways for so long,
what are you noticing about diversity in this moment? How
is that showing up? Is there real weight behind it? Um?
(30:16):
And what's necessary for our spaces to truly be diverse
in the way that they should be. Yeah, it's so
very interesting that you ask that, because for the last
sixteen years I have taught d e I Diversity, equity
and inclusion as a completely separate subject from social justice.
(30:38):
I think it was this part of myself that felt that, Um,
A lot of people are either intimidated by or maybe
turned off by the idea of social activism because that
concept is passe, right, because we've already won the fights. Right.
We've got through the through Jim Crow, we got through
the freedom of enslaved human beings here in this country,
(31:01):
we got through the civil rights movement. We have our
first identifiable elected presidents. So a lot of people feel
like the idea of activism is passe, even though it's
always been very deeply ingrained in my heart. So I felt, Debbie,
I think this responsibility for not shoving it down someone's
throat if they wanted to learn about activism and social justice.
(31:23):
I'm happy to lead those conversations and teach those tools,
but it's optional. I've also focused more on d E
and I in corporate and academic spaces, and and in
more recent years, have started integrating that into the work
that I do internationally. Thinking again, I don't want to
(31:44):
force in that particular case, I don't want to force
American perspectives on the international communities that I serve, but
I now recognize that they are all intrinsically connected. We
now recognize that D E and I are just three
of a multitude of tools we need to create more
(32:06):
equitable spaces. But I can tell you, as a D
E I expert, that diversity doesn't work. It doesn't work
because while I was working out of the belly of
Jim Crow, we are still dealing with people who are
no longer physically shackled and chained, but they are economically
(32:26):
shackled and chained with people that are no longer legally
raped on a plantation. But it is acceptable for a
woman or a man to be um accosted by the
law enforcement professional professionals that we hired to and protect
(32:47):
us and rate behind closed doors or or behind bars,
and somehow in a system that they're still allowed to
get away with it. So it's a different type of rape.
So we don't see the same forms of slavery that
existed four hundred years ago. But I would challenge you
and your audience to think about in many ways that
(33:09):
there are our communities that are siloed in poverty, not
by accident, but intentional slavery is still alive and well.
The modern forms of slavery, like the prison industrial complex,
very much alive and well. Segregated schools that still exist,
(33:31):
and some people will be shocked to hear that the
large majority of public schools in this country are still segregated.
We don't call them that, but depending on where you
live determines on the quality of education that you get.
That is still segregation and it is legal. So I
(33:53):
say that diversity alone is not enough, and for professionals
that have brought me for so many years that um
say that they don't have the funding or the time
and they want me to come in and just conduct
a forty five minute or one our diversity training for
this month and think that that's okay. It won't work
if you think that getting on the bandwagon of hiring
(34:15):
a chief diversity officer, which linked in. According to their report,
two percent of their hires in two thousand and twenty
were chief diversity officers who in two thousand and twenty
one aren't staying in these positions because they're passionate and
serious experts in this work and find that they're working
(34:36):
in companies that aren't truly committed their companies that are
there checking a box. They're checking a box and putting
a band aid on the problem because our staff is
saying that we are not equitable. We've got to make
a statement and take a stand on on where we
support diversity. That they're thinking that they have done the work,
(34:56):
that's not the work. You're not doing the work of
diversity off, you're not making a serious financial commitment and
investment in the work. If you are not encouraging conversations
in safe places, if you are not assessing your hiring
policies and benefits, and the list goes on and on.
We now know that diversity alone doesn't work. What we
(35:18):
really want is a new framework that we recognize now
as JEDI. That's justice, equity, diversity, and include that we
realize that we must bring justice from the margins to
the forefront of everything that we do. When we lead
with justice, we we really speak to our spiritual selves.
(35:40):
Interestingly enough, we say that we commit first to doing
the right thing, first, last, and always we put ourselves
in the feet of uh and the shoes I'm sorry,
rather of others. We consider others feelings and how our
choices will impact them. Yeah, and we think about having
(36:01):
the courage to open and confront conversations that before we
have been afraid of of leading. Because the the sad
fact is that we do live in two America's. One
America that was built for a privileged few to have
access to all the resources that they needed not just
to survive, but to thrive, and then we live in
(36:25):
yet another America where the system has been designed knowingly
and intentionally allowing too many people to still suffer, and
they're okay with it. So we we have to get
to a space now where diversity is not enough. It's
a part of the solution that it's not the total.
What we really want is justice for every single human being.
(36:49):
How does that present itself in the workplace? For a
workplace to actively have radical transformation where everyone is fully
respected her, they're making been a facial contributions into the world.
How does that become a reality in these places? And
have you seen it? Like, have you really seen corporate
and company structures being able um to show up powerfully?
(37:14):
Oh yeah, there are some companies that are doing great
work around justice. But I can give you one example.
One of my clients I've been working with now for
nine months, who CEO told me, we really want to
do the work. Um, there's seven mindsets. They're one of
the biggest social emotional learning companies in the country, and
(37:36):
I have been conducting some real surgical Jedi work on
their company for nine months. For a CEO to make
a courageous step like bringing in a Jedi expert to
operate on their company to not only assess all over
their curriculum, to assess their organization and make sure that
(37:58):
they are an inclusive organization. We just completed a racial
equity impact assessment. It's scary. It has ruffled a few
feathers UM and even created UM, let's just say, some
interesting conversations within the company. An assessment would look very
much like if you went into a doctor's office and UM,
(38:20):
they lead an examination of you physically. So I'm coming
in and I'm assessing everything from your curriculum to your
hiring policies. I am conducting anonymous surveys with your executive
leadership team as well as your staff UM to assess
(38:41):
your position and or feelings about equity, inclusion diversity within
your company. Do you feel psychologically safe expressing your race
or ethnicity? UM. Are you invited into conversations that would
help you advance your career or are you excluded from
(39:01):
those conversations. Do you feel that you are receiving equitable
compensation based on the lived experiences that you're bringing to
a workplace. Historically, we have perhaps put too much value
on academic credentials and even professional credentials. That are important,
of course, to demonstrate what you have accomplished as a professional,
(39:24):
but there are so many lived experiences that professionals, especially
of the bipop community, Black Indigenous people of color possess
that because of racism, they may not have had an
opportunity to advance academically, but that doesn't remove their opportunity
to contribute significantly to your growth as a company. So
(39:44):
are those lived experiences being evaluated in the hiring process?
Is your compensation equitable with men in the firm? White
men in the firm, especially, who still earn in upwards
of already sends more on a dollar than an African
American woman and more than of of an Hispanic woman
(40:07):
for the same job, the same responsibilities, the same leadership role.
So we're taking really an assessment of of the entire
framework of your company, and then I'm generating a report
for you with recommendations for how you move forward. So
there are companies like Seven Mindsets that are making courageous,
(40:28):
bold moves to say what we've done before is important work,
but now we recognize we have a greater responsibility as
a result of that, they have some clients who have
complained that they have more people that are leaning in
and recognizing the power of them being bold and making
(40:50):
a commitment to using their educational platform as an opportunity
to show young impressionable minds the power and the important
and the beauty of diversity. What called you to this work? Mmmm?
I think because I was that kid that was always
different and felt weird in my difference, not recognizing that
(41:14):
it was my beauty, it was my cape. If we
all had a superhero cape, my weirdness would have it
wouldn't been my cape. I gotta tell you, As a child,
I have always been more fascinated about social justice and
my gosh, Debbie, when I found out that there were
(41:34):
pioneers like Harriet Tubman and Sojourner Truth and Frederick Douglas
who used music in the arts, which were always precious
to me as weapons for change. What nobody else talking
about that in class? You know, they were talking about
what cars they wanted to drive and being a superstar.
(41:55):
And yet my mother, Um, I mean, God bless her
for having the clarity to drag me to see the
homes of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson when I was
a child, because the stories that I learned about them
in school were they were these heroes, right, and there
(42:16):
was a time that they were a hero to some
but oppressors to others. I would not have learned those
truths if my mother had not dragged me, because I
Nes was not trying to be my friend, okay, and
Nels was trying to ensure that her child was exposed
to the truth. Those were life changing moments for me
(42:36):
to go to these plantations and see the slave quarters.
I actually have a slave quarters right in my backyard.
You'll have to come visit me sometime. I live in
a year old historic home UM with the slave quarters
that are attached. But to not only see those slave
quarters as a child, but learn about the career stories
(42:56):
of my ancestors who invented everything from the traffic light
to ironing boards to building some of the most beautiful
buildings that we've seen in this country. We're not taught
those stories in school. Debvy and didn't like history in school.
The true history, the untold history, is what we really
need to celebrate, right it has yet to be told.
(43:18):
So my mom was doing that and taking me to
see Leontine Price and UM so many you know where
I I learned as a child that UM, you could
break a stereotype and rebuild a narrative through music. You
take a story of a man like George Gershwin, a
Jewish man that was born into poverty and had the
(43:41):
courage to dismantle the stereotype of of African Americans as
poor and ignorant and develop an opera for first all
Black cast where you would sing all see a woman
that wasn't just singing a Negro spiritual or maybe into
taining people and like le fol bilj with Josephine paper,
(44:04):
which was wonderful. But to hear a Leontine price to
sing a m P and iud never go w nowhere
(44:25):
listen shree. Yeah. So seeing what a treat, thank you,
the beauty, thank you, I didn't warm up for that one,
but I want to share a little. But seeing the
tereotypes being broken as a child showed me that I
(44:49):
could take charge of the narrative that I wanted to
create in my life, and I could show other people
also how to create a story, not where the story
ends in poverty and sadness and loss, but a story
that ends the way that they have scripted it, one
(45:10):
of triumph, one of resilience and hope. Mm hmm, hold
that thought. We are coming right back. So two things. One,
I love how you just dropped all that glory on
(45:33):
us and kept going. So I gotta call that out
of that was such a beautiful Uh, thank you for
sharing that that other layer of you and your artistry.
M hmm, you know what really, So what I'm hearing
and what you're saying is one I'm hearing you know
(45:55):
something that that for me is always a character touristic
of deepest connection to God Um and deepest purpose, which
is it's just an insatiable curiosity. It is, it's a
piece of you that longs to investigate, that longs to
(46:17):
know the origins of the deeper story to Um. And
then I'm also really experiencing the pioneering work because I
think for many of us you know this these terms right,
like the work of d e I, the work of Jedi,
like for many of us, this is on the forefront.
Especially this year, we're really understanding pieces that have been missing,
(46:42):
things that are necessary, UM. Certain certain words are coming
to the forefront, equity, inclusion and diversity, justice, UM. But
to have been doing this work for so long, I'm
really fascinated to know how did you find this as
your path? Like a work that was not known on
(47:03):
the mainstream level but is It's truly some of the
deepest work one can dedicate their life too, and also
one of the most exhaustive types of work that one
could dedicate their lives. So you are constantly educating, you
are constantly filling yourself with knowledge and seeking, and it's beautiful,
(47:24):
but it is tiring. It is tiring to hold space
in that way, UM, for such important work and sometimes
such profoundly heavy work. UM. So how did you find
yourself creating this life for you? In this work that
you share? M. I find it interesting that you say
(47:48):
how did I find it? Because I think it really
found me and it it comes from the earliest traumas
that I experienced to my life, which I alluded to before. UM.
But there's something to that, you know. I think that
most of us tend to think that trauma has to
manifest itself in or that it will invariably manifest itself
(48:11):
in very negative ways throughout our lives. The word trauma
is is heavy. It's a big one. There's no there's
no getting around it. We're not talking about a wound,
we're not talking about a scrape, we're not talking about
a pimple. Trauma is to your core on a cellular level, right,
(48:32):
And on a cellular level, if we recognize that everything
about us is energy, right, everything that comes in and
out of us as energy, then that means that trauma
is a negative energy that literally can disrupt the flow
shape and even growth patterns within our our body. We
(48:55):
tend to think that that story has already been written,
that we have a child ex experiences a certain trauma
or even compounded traumas earlier in life that has already
defined their path. Very rarely do we look at the
fact that some of the greatest triumphs and beauty are
born from death and conflict. If you just look at
(49:18):
the way a seed is planted, a seed is planted
in dirt. You know what my favorite flowers is the
lotus flower because it can only grow in mud. And
look that most of us don't think is appealing. It
doesn't feel good, it's gritty, But what emerges out of
(49:41):
that muddy water is this glorious flower. So going back
to a seed and what a seed has to go through,
buried in dirt and darkness, right, that only when it
is rained on constantly and fertilized sometimes by some human
a dog waste, right, and it has to pierce through
(50:02):
that soil and withstand torrential storms and harsh sun and
other waste that is poured upon that seed as it
as it fights to grow. But ultimately, not only does
it produce a glorious flower, but emits oxygen that we
depend on. We don't think about conflict or trauma resulting
(50:26):
in beauty. And I think that I recognized early on,
with with some help and a lot of tough love,
that the beauty within me I could either bury and
stay rooted in sadness and anger, or I could choose
to fertilize it and use the lessons that I learned
(50:48):
from overcoming those traumas to help other people. I chose
the latter path. It was a choice, and debby, it
is a choice that I make every single day. And
I want your listeners to recognize is that they have
a choice that they can make every single day to
walk in their beauty, to identify it, to look past
(51:10):
the muck and the mire, and to recognize that they
were born perfectly and beautifully made, even with their COVID
brownie pounds on them. Because we can get rid of those, right,
we can get rid of those, but how about that
internal work. UM. I almost say that I expressed to
you that I've been through some really big traumas in
(51:32):
in my life, and I'd say one of the toughest
was when I had a heart attack eight years ago.
I'm a survivor and I lost everything. I mean everything.
There were days where I couldn't even um didn't have
enough money to pay for my power, and I lived
in darkness and there was a lot of shame with that.
(51:55):
UM My family didn't even know because there was shame
in this loss that I had sperience. Here, I've overcome
this huge hurdle in fighting for my life. But I
gotta tell you, after forty um some odd visits to
the doctor's office and four stays in the hospital and
not not knowing whether I would live or not, many
(52:18):
times I would often go home and crawl into my
bed and I would think it would have been so
much easier for me not to have survived, because why
is it that I have helped all of these people
all around the world and I now can't even take
care of myself and I am afraid of dying every
(52:41):
single day Because that trauma, right when you experience it
once there is a perpetual sense of fear that it's
going to happen again, so why should I even try.
It was much easier for me to stay in bed
in total darkness and cold than it was to pull
myself up and decide to fight. But Debbie, when I
started getting really sick of myself and stick could feeling
(53:05):
tired for myself, bad for myself, I'm sorry, and I
got tired of crying, and I decided something beautiful can
come out of this. I wrote a list of the
things that brought me the greatest joy and what my
greatest strengths were, and I rebuilt my life. And I've
used that model many many times. I've taught children around
(53:26):
the world that there are three pillars of life that
if you can achieve these, you can pretty much get
through anything. And that is number one, figuring out who
you want to be, how to become that person, and
then how to remain true to being that person in
the darkest moments of your life. And I think that
the lessons that I have gleaned from overcoming some of
(53:50):
the greatest traumas in my life have helped people find
the greatness within themselves. And that's why I choose to
do this work. I choose to do this work every
single day because I see other people growing from and
becoming more beautified by this work, and it's hard to
let go of that. Yes, it's hard work, but when
(54:12):
you see other people growing from the skills that you
have gleaned from your own suffering and survival, then it's
easy to want to lean in to do the hard work.
Because when we plant that seed of hope, uh and
possibilities and others, than it makes the world better. And
that's what I choose to do every single day. Amazing, amazing.
(54:36):
It's I love, UM, especially that you so eloquently are
speaking to beauty because there's a very specific spiritual path
that is called the Beauty Way, and it's ancient. It's
from you know, all the realms UM since in antiquity.
But it's all about that path of leaning into joy,
(54:56):
cultivating your inner radiance as a tool for trans did
healing and self mastery. So I think that that is
just exquisite. UM. At the end of every show, I
love to share some soul work with the audience, and
I would love to invite you to offer potentially a
self care practice, maybe a journal prompt or something that
(55:19):
can be savored when this episode ends. For each listener,
m So, I would say first that that which brings
you the greatest joy, lean into that. We often question
that which brings us joy, especially if it doesn't fit
into that box that we have been conditioned to believe
(55:41):
we're supposed to fit neatly in, and that if you
don't fit into that box somehow, if you're on the
outside of it, that somehow you have taken a wrong turn.
Instead of recognizing that every single one of us has
a divine path that we're supposed to follow, and that
no buddy's path looks the same. So lean into that
(56:03):
which brings you joy, and you will see the infinite
possibilities that exist within that. When we exist in a
space of joy, when we protect and nurture that joy,
doors open the universal binds in our favor for the
right people, the right resources and opportunities and knowledge for
(56:28):
us to celebrate that every single day of our lives.
And I would challenge your audience to do that. When
you find that joy, do it every single day of
your life. So beautiful dr one day, Austin, How can
everyone find you? How can they connect with you. Yeah,
so there are a few ways they can reach out
(56:50):
to me on Facebook. Um, I have a fledgling social
media page, but you can find me on Facebook at
your Wandi Austin dot not dot com. I'm sorry you
will hand the Austin on Facebook. You can also find
out more about my humanitarian work at Change International dot
(57:10):
org and Global Institute for Diversity and Change dot com.
Thank you so much for joining us. This has been
such a joy spending this time with you, and thank
you for your internal and external radiance. Thank you for
(57:31):
having me, Debbie. Hey, find me on social Let's connect
at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or go to
my website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're listening
to the show on Apple Podcasts, please please please don't
forget to rate, review, and subscribe and send this episode
(57:52):
to a friend. Dropping Jams is the production of I
Heart Radio and Black Effect Network. It's produced by Triple
and Me Debbie Brown. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Mm from grandmothers who whispered in their baby girl in
two fathers on dimly lit street corners, instructing young soldiers
to always keep their eyes open. You be queen, you
(00:21):
were fired. You will pass through centuries on the hands
of your daughters. They called you wisdom. Proverbs on the
backs of diamond eyed school children who growing into hymnals
recited by amethyst holding urban philosophers who recited neighborhood commandments
out of the windows of restored Alchemedo chariots to keep
the warmth of their blood, be wise, be smart, being black,
(00:46):
Opal Brown courts bloodstone and prayer. Be every form of
jim se King told, scribe, scribe, told son, son, told wife,
wife told her daughter, and daughter told the as this is.
And the ancestors told me that you would come to
give wisdom thousands. They said you would come, Dropping Dropping Gen. Hey,
(01:11):
welcome back another episode of the Dropping Gen's podcast. Thank
you for being here. I'm your host, Deverie Brown. Connect
with me on I g at Debbie Brown and I
want to do a huge shout out to everybody at
the Black Effect Network and I Heart Radio. That is
where my show is so happy to live. But of
course you can always connect with the show in all
the ways that you listen to podcasts. Today's episode, we
(01:33):
are diving into diversity, equity inclusion. This is an area
we have not um so specifically touched on in this
show yet. But I find this moment in time really fascinating,
especially as we are now having these conversations in such
an expansive way globally. And the way that I'm kind
(01:56):
of experiencing it and noticing it is this down no
effect right, Like, I feel that really and this is
still unfolding, um but so many marginalized communities, oppressed communities globally,
we are each in many ways having a moment in
(02:16):
the sun where certain things that have been the norm
for us but not known for everyone are being brought
to the forefront and being shared and said explicitly and plainly.
And the way that I recognize the impact of this
moment is that it is all in service to our
collective ascension and the elevation of our consciousness. And this
(02:37):
is a moment that is thousands of years overdue and
our millions of years overdue. Depending on who you act
and what evolutionary timetable you may be following, UM. But
you know, this past year, I think for many of
us was really interesting in watching, especially at the top
of the pandemic, when social unrest was really at a
(02:59):
height for us here in the US, it was really
interesting watching how little ah non communities of color knew
about the experiences outside of themselves. I think for me, though,
I think we that's been plainly clear for all of us. UM.
(03:21):
It was really deepened for me because I do have
sometimes the habit of assuming that everyone is like me,
even though I know very differently. UM. But I do
always have this this belief inside of me sometimes that
we are all coming from a space of knowledge, wisdom
(03:42):
and compassion. UM. And of course you know, we're all
on our own journeys. And in this moment, I remember, UM,
James Baldwin said this really perfectly, and I'm paraphrasing now,
but it was eye opening for me in a clip
I was watching of him speaking on a television show
and he said, we have always known how your lives operate.
(04:09):
You know, you've never known about ours. But every film
that comes out, every major story, every book, every major
theme has always centered around whiteness and the goodness of whiteness.
And because whiteness has been at the forefront of the
way that we experience ourselves. Um, we've known complexities of
(04:31):
whiteness very well, you know, I think just being alive
in America, based on our movies, based on the magazines,
based on the advertisements, based on the books, based on
the magazines, based on the history taught in schools, we
know what it is at every intersection of whiteness. We
know what it is to be poor white. We know
(04:51):
what it is to be rich white. We know what
it is to be blue collar white. We know what
it is to be um, you know, disenfranchised white. Like
we know all of the spectrum of the stories and um,
the challenges and the different degrees that a full spectrum
of white people experience. And I think for a lot
(05:14):
of people it gets a little lost on us that, yeah,
we have the depth of this understanding of that experience
in a multitude of ways, but it's not reciprocated, it's
not reflected. There is so much that is unknown about
the experiences of people who are not in the position
(05:38):
of power in this country. And so I think that
that has really lent itself, um to a fascinating moment
in time. You know, the reactions that we were seeing
that a lot of people had to the social unrest
because it was the first time they actually sat down
and had to witness it and had to know it.
(05:58):
And for us it was like, well for some of us, um,
it was like yeah, that's every single day since forever. Um.
So you know, with all of that, in the way
that it's expanded, there are more conversations than ever happening
in really non traditional places. You know, Um, we're in
our workspaces having sometimes really complex conversations around race, having
(06:25):
really complex conversations about money, about white supremacy, about so
many of the systemic structures in place and how they
affect everyone. And you know, a thing for me that
was that was a little bit irritating, um, when everything
(06:46):
was kicking off last year, was this kind of blanket
statement that was said as a catch all, especially by
a lot of companies, but by so many people on Instagram,
the posting of that black uh screen and then the
terminology of we're listening, we're learning, you know, and I
remember thinking, who crafted that? What is your real intention?
(07:09):
What do you mean by that? What are you studying?
What are you listening to, what are you learning and
how will that show up for active change? UM? So
today's conversation, let's dive into all of these things. UM.
You know, because we are where we are and we've
all chosen this human experience, so we're going to be
here for a while. But as is expanding, and as
(07:30):
new stories are being new stories are being told, um,
and as there is this very clear present shift happening
for all of us, all the billions of people on
the planet right now. UM, there's so much to look at.
So on today's show, I have a wonderful, wonderful guest
(07:51):
that was actually suggested to me, um by a powerful
listener of this show. And when I when I have
the opportunity to really look through her work, I just said, Wow,
this is somebody that has been really, really in a
powerful way showing up in the world and doing some
(08:13):
of this deeply complicated and heavy work for a very
long time. So today's guest on the show is Dr
Yewande Austin. She is recognized as an international expert injustice, equity,
diversity and inclusion. Dr Austin's work has touched over two
hundred and fifty thousand people in thirty countries, including twenty
(08:36):
three nations across the continent of Africa. She was honored
to serve as Virginia Governor Ralph Northam's former Special Advisor
to the Office of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion, the first
ever state agency of its kind in the Commonwealth of
Virginia and the nation. And to say that was in Virginia,
that's a big deal. For the last sixteen years, Dr
(08:58):
Austin Social Impact Consultancy One Change LLC has impacted over
three thousand academic institutions, government agencies, and nonprofit organizations through
programs that explore the powerful intersection between justice, equity, diversity
and inclusion, leadership, and innovation. Dr yo Wande Austin, Welcome
(09:20):
to the show. Thanks so much for having me. So
I think off top before we even get started, we
were having a beautiful talk about accessories. So anybody that
follows me, I'm a jewelry girl. I love adorning myself,
I love accessories. You came on screen looking just stunningly beautiful.
(09:40):
You have this gorgeous necklace on, and we both started
talking about how much we love, how much joy can
be found in that kind of adorning, but I find
it to also be such a sacred experience for me.
I think the more I connect with the deepest parts
of myself, um, the more of banded on my spiritual journey.
(10:02):
Everything serves a purpose, everything has a meaning, And so
when I'm putting on accessories, it's always so deeply intentional,
um and kind of there. It's this curation of how
I'm showing up in that moment. So, since you have
such beautiful accessories on it, I would love to know
what is your spiritual connection to the way that you
present in the world. M Well, I think that we
(10:25):
all have a story. I have never been attracted to
what the masses found to be appealing somehow as the
universe created me. I've always been connected to the road
less traveled, and that also relates to how I want
to present myself. You know, there was a time I
(10:47):
don't mind saying that I wore tracks and I were
we use and I I adorned myself with um things
that were synthetic that I thought represented and I deal
of beauty. It wasn't until I decided to celebrate an
honor my natural hair that I found beauty in that
(11:09):
which others didn't understand, but took a little bit more
effort to understand. Just like with so many women of
color and our hair, it takes time, and we are
so neger to get that immediate gratification in all things
that we're much more attracted to that than taking a
little bit more time to understand, to manage, to find
(11:31):
the beauty in that which is not apparent. And so
I found the same thing in my jewelry. I have
a piece of jewelry from every country in which I
have worked and in the communities where I have served,
and there's a story behind every piece, just like there
is on my neck today. This piece is actually from
the Democratic Republic of the Congo, although I purchased it
in Atlanta at one of my favorite shops, Afro Centric
(11:55):
Network on Lee Street, Little Plug and I'm gonna be
I'm in love with this. I'm gonna be checking out
their sight when we get off. It's amazing. But a
piece like this, for example, Debbie, is not one that
could be replicated. Why because it is created from scraps. Normally,
a lot of these pieces from Africa are created from scraps,
(12:18):
from the leftovers from parts either from machinery or from
wiring or trash that people thought were disposable, but someone
had the insight to lean in and find the beauty
in that piece. And so these are scraps of leather
that are wrapped around pieces of tire. You wouldn't know that,
(12:39):
But isn't that a metaphor for life that we are
all on a quest to find the beauty within ourselves?
And that's one of the things that I love about
your show, helping people become deeper connected with their inner selves.
Because it's easy to put on the adornments and look fabulous,
but how do you feel? What do you resonance every day?
How are you intentional showing up in the world. That's
(13:03):
really a beautiful, beautiful share and reflection and the thing
that comes up for me and it's I'm really connecting
to what you were saying as it relates especially to hair, uh,
like I have, I have a lot of hair. I
got long hair, it's really curly. Um and that my
curly hair was a big part of my life for
most of my life. And then I started using a
(13:24):
keratin treatment some years ago. So I've been on this
journey the last year of like retraining my curls and
being able to connect to the more natural state of myself.
UM one, because I really wanted to save time and too,
I just really enjoy my natural state. UM but a
piece that has been powerful for me as I'm kind
(13:45):
of trying to gently, without judgment, coax my natural being out. Um.
You know, a lot of us we make our own
like hair products right in our bathrooms, or we make
our own little refresher sprays for our curls to keep
you know, in between our wa is. And something that
I do is I do raiky on my curl refresher
(14:05):
each time that I make it, so I send it
energy and then I also put anointing oils in it.
And so sometimes that looks like a little frankincense and
mer sometimes it looks like special blends that I've concoct it.
And every time I'm looking to refresh my hair, I'm
also charging like my crown chakra and sprain like these
intentions into my scalp. And I've just found that it's
(14:27):
really been a beautiful piece of my process. And so,
you know, kind of as we fit. It's interesting, you know,
you do really big work in the world and and
we're gonna start unpacking all of that, and everyone was
able to hear some of our introduction. And but what
I found is, you know, early in my life, I
really rejected beauty in many ways, Like there were things
(14:49):
about attractiveness that I've rejected, and I was just like
way more concerned with being cerebral, way more concerned with
how I felt I was energetically showing up. And I
feel like I really rejected some of um, you know,
some of the qualities of like the divine feminine. I
was really stuck in some of my um masculine that
(15:13):
I had taken on for protection, right um and and
some some of that personal vigilance sometimes we take with
ourselves depending on our experiences. And part of the journey
that I found, as I'm always thinking deeper into my
authentic self is letting my natural inter radiance come out
(15:34):
and actually taking care with myself. When I was younger,
I was I was so in rejection of beauty and
my own appearance that I wouldn't spend time with myself.
I was working through this thought this week where I
was like, I wouldn't even deep condition my hair because
I resented the amount of time. It took right. I
didn't want to be in front of the mirror for
that long. And now it's one of the things that
(15:55):
I savor and really look forward to giving myself that care.
And I found that the way I care for myself
in that way that I used to think was a
little more vapid or you know, just maybe surface, it
actually allows me to show up really powerfully in my
work and really powerfully in the world. And I feel
(16:17):
cared for and I feel protected, and I also feel
like that investment that I put into me. UM. So
I just, yeah, that came forward for me as we
were kind of beginning this conversation. But Debbie, I so
relate to that. You know, the world that both of
us do today, UM didn't come overnight. It came through. UM.
(16:40):
I'm sure a lot of trials for me, early trauma
in my life, UM that put me into a cocoon
that took years for me to break free of. People
don't understand that today. They don't quite honestly believe me
that I was a wallflower in high school, that I
was that little girl that was really afraid of her shadow.
(17:02):
But I'm so grateful that there are people along the
way that saw the beauty within first that was so
important to my growth. Um And and when I also
think back to a time when I was just a
little girl and experienced some early traumas, and I remember
my mom um setting up our first apartment after she
(17:25):
had left my father and living in a closet for
the first several years of my life, and she saw
that I was angry. I was very sad as a
little girl. Um. It saddens her today to know that
I had very little joy as a child growing up
because I was burdened with so many of those adult
issues that a lot of children around the world are
(17:48):
introduced too far too early in their lives. And it
changes who you are. It shapes a very important part
of who you are, how you see yourself, and how
you show up in the world. But you know, there's
a very important lesson that my mom taught me very
early on that I'm grateful for to this day, and
that is I didn't have to be defined by my
circumstances and I could become better because of what I
(18:12):
had overcome. She taught me very early on that if
I were to succeed, to be happy, um, to walk
in the fullness of myself that it was my responsibility
and it came from within. That one lesson has served
as the ethos of my work around the world is
(18:32):
that no matter what it is that we're going through,
the answers to solve the world's greatest problems are within
their right there. But if we could get to a
point where we don't cover up, right, we're not covering
up with the things I talked about, the tracks and
the weaves, and this is no disrespect to anybody who
(18:53):
does wear them, but I think we have to think
about why we do these things. Why why do we
subscribe to serve ideals of beauty or how we should
show up in the world and put all of that energy,
not only the finance. I remember spending a lot of
money on that and going on and making sure I
had my lashes, although I must say I was rushing
(19:15):
to get my little false eyelashes on before my interview
because sometimes I feel naked without with you today without them,
And first I appreciate that, but before us to check ourselves,
like what is that in my brain? At a certain
point that said, I have to be lashing to have
a last fully on to watch the fullness of who
(19:38):
I am and to be fabulous. You already got it.
If you are true to yourself, even when people don't
believe in you, even when times get tough, your beauty
will radiate through uh like a little lash I have
stuck in my eye that I've been trying to move up.
(20:00):
But I for the first five minutes of our interview,
as my eyes have been watering, you will still radiate
through that. You will still rise above if you are
true to who you are. It's when we start listening
to the static and we start paying attention to images
and the narrative that other people put out there that
we should subscribe to. When we're not true to to
(20:22):
who we are, that's when we diminish our beauty. It's
it's so interesting actually to be leaning into this piece
of it and I think, um that this is a part.
This is a conversation I haven't had yet on this show,
like really in and I think it's powerful because I think,
I mean, you know, and the work which we're going
(20:44):
to step into is like one thing, but it's also
how do I drive my ship to be able to
show up for the calling on my life? Right? How
can I get so tapped into my inner radiance that
that is a piece I don't have to think a
lot of about because it's part of my ritual. It's
part of how I offer myself to God and myself
(21:07):
every day and in every way. And it's funny, Um,
you know, I remember when I was younger, and things
are a little different in this moment, Like the last
couple of years, we've we've come into such expansive conversations
around womanhood, around um, you know, all the societal contracts,
including the way that we view ourselves through leading advertisement
(21:27):
shows and all the things of the time. And so
I found for me that being in the global pandemic,
like being in my house for a year, not being
able to get my my nails and TOAs done, especially
in the first few months, or get my hair done,
which was my go to was always just go for
a blow dry because I didn't want to spend time
doing my hair by myself, you know, um, and really
(21:49):
like pouring down our clothes, and you know it, it
created like a moment for me where I felt the
most beautiful, like I really was able to just sit
and be with myself with all without all of the
trappings and also without any of the feedback, any of
the in person um you know, body language or comments
(22:13):
or experiences, and so you really get to know, like
what is leading me to whatever my look is or
however I want to present and each day and you know,
I remember when I was younger, especially when I was
working in radio, I used to do we have so
many interviews and you know, every other day, like we'd
have different artists or you know, people coming on to
to be on the show. And you know, sometimes you're tired,
(22:36):
you show up at work. You don't want to be
all blah blah blah, you know, blah blah bam. And
I was thinking. I was talking to a friend of mine,
my friend Saddi Simone, about this, and I was like,
I remember there was a time I used to apologize
for my face, you know, like if I was ever
ran into someone in public and I didn't happen to
have makeup on, or my hair was an a ponytail,
but like, oh my god, I'm sorry, don't look at
(22:57):
my face. And I put on like glasses, you know,
and I'd be wearing glasses inside like sunglasses, and I'm like,
oh sorry, I didn't I didn't have time to put
my makeup on today, or oh I didn't do my hair,
and that was a regular thing for women then, right,
And this wasn't that long ago, but it isn't now.
And that's really interesting to look at how how our
(23:18):
paradigm shifts happen and so instantaneous, and then everything is
different and we have these new permissions and now I'm
looking back like, how would I Why on earth would
I ever apologize for how I look to anyone? Why
would I ever give that amount of power to anyone?
Uh So, it's really Yeah, it's interesting to explore at
(23:41):
the different stages of our ages of life. You know,
how we the layers in which we can accept ourselves
feeding into the stereotypes we we've all been led him
up and really at some point been um um distracted
by external noise and allowed it to become our internal noise.
(24:07):
But this pandemic, with all of the catastrophic losses, the
destruction of our economy, of our comfort even within our
own spaces, because now we have to share them with
some people who we are questioning while we were with
them in the first place, and it has now forced
(24:30):
us to confront the external noise that we allowed into
our homes where now we have been contained to stay safe.
But we're finding Wait a minute, there's so much more
noise in this space than what I remembered before the pandemic.
Because I was able to leave, I was able to
escape that, I was able to pretend that it did
(24:51):
not exist. Stract now we have been forced to come
face to face with all of the lies that we
have fed into and it is time and all of
the personal betrayals that we may have even made to ourselves,
all of it, all of it. It's time for us
to get real about everything. In light of all of
(25:12):
the destruction that COVID has caused, it has also created
what I call an era of reawakening that we fell asleep.
I think we fell asleep after President Obama. We thought
there was no way that we could go back, and
we did not take advantage um of our rights to vote.
And we see where that got us. We have not
(25:34):
taken care of our bodies. We see where that has
gotten some of us with our our COVID weight. Maya
colpa I ate brownies. For about the first three months,
I was struggling with the transition listen, and I'm a
motivational speaker. But the motivational speaker was like, wait a minute, right,
it's something that had never been I've been through some
(25:55):
things deby brown and the life. I have survived a
heart attack, bilateral pneumonia. I work with human trafficking victims
and orphans and in conflict zones. I've been through some things.
I've seen some things. Haven't seen this one. So we
started neglecting our body and again tapping into other things
(26:17):
like brownies that made us feel made us think that
we felt better. For me, it was green tea ice cream.
I ate that every single night, Like I could not
go to bed without having some every single night of
the pandemic. Right, that's amazing. But it forced us to
get real aboutism in this country. As with the death
(26:41):
of George Floyd. I find it fascinating that it ignited
this fight against police brutality around the world, because in America,
will labor Wait a minute, this has been going on
for four hundred years. What made it different. It's because
we were forced to be still and everyone was four
to witness it, yes, and to not move around and
(27:04):
to not be distracted by the external noise. Now that
external noise became our internal pain, that we made a collective,
universal agreement. We were no longer okay by sitting still
and saying that was someone else's pain. I feel sorry
(27:24):
for George Floyd, but that's too bad that had happened
to him and his family. But that's not my problem.
And I thank God and the universe for that that
I think the entire world has finally seen we can
no longer subscribe to this idea that's that someone else's pain,
because when it affects one of us, it affects all
(27:46):
of us. And then we're so awakened that now we're
seeing case after case after case of Brianna Taylor and
Dante right, and we're saying, wait a minute, what's going on?
This has been going on, but rayism has not always
been as blatant as um hanging lynching. It has not
(28:06):
always been as blatant as police brutality. Now we are
so awake and alive that we're recognizing we also don't
have to work in spaces where we're not valued, we're
not receiving equitable compensation, where we psychologically don't feel safe,
where spiritually we feel we have been re enslaved in
(28:27):
some spaces. I've worked in some of those spaces, and
I can say during the pandemic, I'm saying, no, I'm free.
And we're recognizing now the critical intersection between our spiritual selves,
our social selves, and also our emotional selves, and that
they're also deeply connected. That we can no longer forsake
(28:48):
one of them just for the sake of getting ahead
financially or when it comes to our our beauty. None
of that matters, you know, at the core of it
is not what we embodied on earth to know. And
do you know there's so much more available. You've been
doing the work of diversity. I mean for just so
(29:09):
long globally. I'm really interested in your perspective of in
the last year especially. I think two of the well,
i'll say three of the words that I think kind
of took over our vernacular in one form of another
was mental health, wellness and diversity. And I remember, you know,
when when the social unrest really broke out around this
(29:31):
time last year, as you as you said, you know,
for many of us, it was like, yeah, this has
been happening every day since human existence, Like hello, you know,
but I think, Um, the thing that we noticed was
that everyone was called to quote unquote action. A lot
of it was performative, the black boxes, right, like the
(29:52):
we're listening, we're learning, you know, and and it's like, okay,
so what does that mean and what does that mean
in practice? But I'm really curious, um, having done this
work globally in in many different ways for so long,
what are you noticing about diversity in this moment? How
is that showing up? Is there real weight behind it? Um?
(30:16):
And what's necessary for our spaces to truly be diverse
in the way that they should be. Yeah, it's so
very interesting that you ask that, because for the last
sixteen years I have taught d e I Diversity, equity
and inclusion as a completely separate subject from social justice.
(30:38):
I think it was this part of myself that felt that, Um,
A lot of people are either intimidated by or maybe
turned off by the idea of social activism because that
concept is passe, right, because we've already won the fights. Right.
We've got through the through Jim Crow, we got through
the freedom of enslaved human beings here in this country,
(31:01):
we got through the civil rights movement. We have our
first identifiable elected presidents. So a lot of people feel
like the idea of activism is passe, even though it's
always been very deeply ingrained in my heart. So I felt, Debbie,
I think this responsibility for not shoving it down someone's
throat if they wanted to learn about activism and social justice.
(31:23):
I'm happy to lead those conversations and teach those tools,
but it's optional. I've also focused more on d E
and I in corporate and academic spaces, and and in
more recent years, have started integrating that into the work
that I do internationally. Thinking again, I don't want to
(31:44):
force in that particular case, I don't want to force
American perspectives on the international communities that I serve, but
I now recognize that they are all intrinsically connected. We
now recognize that D E and I are just three
of a multitude of tools we need to create more
(32:06):
equitable spaces. But I can tell you, as a D
E I expert, that diversity doesn't work. It doesn't work
because while I was working out of the belly of
Jim Crow, we are still dealing with people who are
no longer physically shackled and chained, but they are economically
(32:26):
shackled and chained with people that are no longer legally
raped on a plantation. But it is acceptable for a
woman or a man to be um accosted by the
law enforcement professional professionals that we hired to and protect
(32:47):
us and rate behind closed doors or or behind bars,
and somehow in a system that they're still allowed to
get away with it. So it's a different type of rape.
So we don't see the same forms of slavery that
existed four hundred years ago. But I would challenge you
and your audience to think about in many ways that
(33:09):
there are our communities that are siloed in poverty, not
by accident, but intentional slavery is still alive and well.
The modern forms of slavery, like the prison industrial complex,
very much alive and well. Segregated schools that still exist,
(33:31):
and some people will be shocked to hear that the
large majority of public schools in this country are still segregated.
We don't call them that, but depending on where you
live determines on the quality of education that you get.
That is still segregation and it is legal. So I
(33:53):
say that diversity alone is not enough, and for professionals
that have brought me for so many years that um
say that they don't have the funding or the time
and they want me to come in and just conduct
a forty five minute or one our diversity training for
this month and think that that's okay. It won't work
if you think that getting on the bandwagon of hiring
(34:15):
a chief diversity officer, which linked in. According to their report,
two percent of their hires in two thousand and twenty
were chief diversity officers who in two thousand and twenty
one aren't staying in these positions because they're passionate and
serious experts in this work and find that they're working
(34:36):
in companies that aren't truly committed their companies that are
there checking a box. They're checking a box and putting
a band aid on the problem because our staff is
saying that we are not equitable. We've got to make
a statement and take a stand on on where we
support diversity. That they're thinking that they have done the work,
(34:56):
that's not the work. You're not doing the work of
diversity off, you're not making a serious financial commitment and
investment in the work. If you are not encouraging conversations
in safe places, if you are not assessing your hiring
policies and benefits, and the list goes on and on.
We now know that diversity alone doesn't work. What we
(35:18):
really want is a new framework that we recognize now
as JEDI. That's justice, equity, diversity, and include that we
realize that we must bring justice from the margins to
the forefront of everything that we do. When we lead
with justice, we we really speak to our spiritual selves.
(35:40):
Interestingly enough, we say that we commit first to doing
the right thing, first, last, and always we put ourselves
in the feet of uh and the shoes I'm sorry,
rather of others. We consider others feelings and how our
choices will impact them. Yeah, and we think about having
(36:01):
the courage to open and confront conversations that before we
have been afraid of of leading. Because the the sad
fact is that we do live in two America's. One
America that was built for a privileged few to have
access to all the resources that they needed not just
to survive, but to thrive, and then we live in
(36:25):
yet another America where the system has been designed knowingly
and intentionally allowing too many people to still suffer, and
they're okay with it. So we we have to get
to a space now where diversity is not enough. It's
a part of the solution that it's not the total.
What we really want is justice for every single human being.
(36:49):
How does that present itself in the workplace? For a
workplace to actively have radical transformation where everyone is fully
respected her, they're making been a facial contributions into the world.
How does that become a reality in these places? And
have you seen it? Like, have you really seen corporate
and company structures being able um to show up powerfully?
(37:14):
Oh yeah, there are some companies that are doing great
work around justice. But I can give you one example.
One of my clients I've been working with now for
nine months, who CEO told me, we really want to
do the work. Um, there's seven mindsets. They're one of
the biggest social emotional learning companies in the country, and
(37:36):
I have been conducting some real surgical Jedi work on
their company for nine months. For a CEO to make
a courageous step like bringing in a Jedi expert to
operate on their company to not only assess all over
their curriculum, to assess their organization and make sure that
(37:58):
they are an inclusive organization. We just completed a racial
equity impact assessment. It's scary. It has ruffled a few
feathers UM and even created UM, let's just say, some
interesting conversations within the company. An assessment would look very
much like if you went into a doctor's office and UM,
(38:20):
they lead an examination of you physically. So I'm coming
in and I'm assessing everything from your curriculum to your
hiring policies. I am conducting anonymous surveys with your executive
leadership team as well as your staff UM to assess
(38:41):
your position and or feelings about equity, inclusion diversity within
your company. Do you feel psychologically safe expressing your race
or ethnicity? UM. Are you invited into conversations that would
help you advance your career or are you excluded from
(39:01):
those conversations. Do you feel that you are receiving equitable
compensation based on the lived experiences that you're bringing to
a workplace. Historically, we have perhaps put too much value
on academic credentials and even professional credentials. That are important,
of course, to demonstrate what you have accomplished as a professional,
(39:24):
but there are so many lived experiences that professionals, especially
of the bipop community, Black Indigenous people of color possess
that because of racism, they may not have had an
opportunity to advance academically, but that doesn't remove their opportunity
to contribute significantly to your growth as a company. So
(39:44):
are those lived experiences being evaluated in the hiring process?
Is your compensation equitable with men in the firm? White
men in the firm, especially, who still earn in upwards
of already sends more on a dollar than an African
American woman and more than of of an Hispanic woman
(40:07):
for the same job, the same responsibilities, the same leadership role.
So we're taking really an assessment of of the entire
framework of your company, and then I'm generating a report
for you with recommendations for how you move forward. So
there are companies like Seven Mindsets that are making courageous,
(40:28):
bold moves to say what we've done before is important work,
but now we recognize we have a greater responsibility as
a result of that, they have some clients who have
complained that they have more people that are leaning in
and recognizing the power of them being bold and making
(40:50):
a commitment to using their educational platform as an opportunity
to show young impressionable minds the power and the important
and the beauty of diversity. What called you to this work? Mmmm?
I think because I was that kid that was always
different and felt weird in my difference, not recognizing that
(41:14):
it was my beauty, it was my cape. If we
all had a superhero cape, my weirdness would have it
wouldn't been my cape. I gotta tell you, As a child,
I have always been more fascinated about social justice and
my gosh, Debbie, when I found out that there were
(41:34):
pioneers like Harriet Tubman and Sojourner Truth and Frederick Douglas
who used music in the arts, which were always precious
to me as weapons for change. What nobody else talking
about that in class? You know, they were talking about
what cars they wanted to drive and being a superstar.
(41:55):
And yet my mother, Um, I mean, God bless her
for having the clarity to drag me to see the
homes of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson when I was
a child, because the stories that I learned about them
in school were they were these heroes, right, and there
(42:16):
was a time that they were a hero to some
but oppressors to others. I would not have learned those
truths if my mother had not dragged me, because I
Nes was not trying to be my friend, okay, and
Nels was trying to ensure that her child was exposed
to the truth. Those were life changing moments for me
(42:36):
to go to these plantations and see the slave quarters.
I actually have a slave quarters right in my backyard.
You'll have to come visit me sometime. I live in
a year old historic home UM with the slave quarters
that are attached. But to not only see those slave
quarters as a child, but learn about the career stories
(42:56):
of my ancestors who invented everything from the traffic light
to ironing boards to building some of the most beautiful
buildings that we've seen in this country. We're not taught
those stories in school. Debvy and didn't like history in school.
The true history, the untold history, is what we really
need to celebrate, right it has yet to be told.
(43:18):
So my mom was doing that and taking me to
see Leontine Price and UM so many you know where
I I learned as a child that UM, you could
break a stereotype and rebuild a narrative through music. You
take a story of a man like George Gershwin, a
Jewish man that was born into poverty and had the
(43:41):
courage to dismantle the stereotype of of African Americans as
poor and ignorant and develop an opera for first all
Black cast where you would sing all see a woman
that wasn't just singing a Negro spiritual or maybe into
taining people and like le fol bilj with Josephine paper,
(44:04):
which was wonderful. But to hear a Leontine price to
sing a m P and iud never go w nowhere
(44:25):
listen shree. Yeah. So seeing what a treat, thank you,
the beauty, thank you, I didn't warm up for that one,
but I want to share a little. But seeing the
tereotypes being broken as a child showed me that I
(44:49):
could take charge of the narrative that I wanted to
create in my life, and I could show other people
also how to create a story, not where the story
ends in poverty and sadness and loss, but a story
that ends the way that they have scripted it, one
(45:10):
of triumph, one of resilience and hope. Mm hmm, hold
that thought. We are coming right back. So two things. One,
I love how you just dropped all that glory on
(45:33):
us and kept going. So I gotta call that out
of that was such a beautiful Uh, thank you for
sharing that that other layer of you and your artistry.
M hmm, you know what really, So what I'm hearing
and what you're saying is one I'm hearing you know
(45:55):
something that that for me is always a character touristic
of deepest connection to God Um and deepest purpose, which
is it's just an insatiable curiosity. It is, it's a
piece of you that longs to investigate, that longs to
(46:17):
know the origins of the deeper story to Um. And
then I'm also really experiencing the pioneering work because I
think for many of us you know this these terms right,
like the work of d e I, the work of Jedi,
like for many of us, this is on the forefront.
Especially this year, we're really understanding pieces that have been missing,
(46:42):
things that are necessary, UM. Certain certain words are coming
to the forefront, equity, inclusion and diversity, justice, UM. But
to have been doing this work for so long, I'm
really fascinated to know how did you find this as
your path? Like a work that was not known on
(47:03):
the mainstream level but is It's truly some of the
deepest work one can dedicate their life too, and also
one of the most exhaustive types of work that one
could dedicate their lives. So you are constantly educating, you
are constantly filling yourself with knowledge and seeking, and it's beautiful,
(47:24):
but it is tiring. It is tiring to hold space
in that way, UM, for such important work and sometimes
such profoundly heavy work. UM. So how did you find
yourself creating this life for you? In this work that
you share? M. I find it interesting that you say
(47:48):
how did I find it? Because I think it really
found me and it it comes from the earliest traumas
that I experienced to my life, which I alluded to before. UM.
But there's something to that, you know. I think that
most of us tend to think that trauma has to
manifest itself in or that it will invariably manifest itself
(48:11):
in very negative ways throughout our lives. The word trauma
is is heavy. It's a big one. There's no there's
no getting around it. We're not talking about a wound,
we're not talking about a scrape, we're not talking about
a pimple. Trauma is to your core on a cellular level, right,
(48:32):
And on a cellular level, if we recognize that everything
about us is energy, right, everything that comes in and
out of us as energy, then that means that trauma
is a negative energy that literally can disrupt the flow
shape and even growth patterns within our our body. We
(48:55):
tend to think that that story has already been written,
that we have a child ex experiences a certain trauma
or even compounded traumas earlier in life that has already
defined their path. Very rarely do we look at the
fact that some of the greatest triumphs and beauty are
born from death and conflict. If you just look at
(49:18):
the way a seed is planted, a seed is planted
in dirt. You know what my favorite flowers is the
lotus flower because it can only grow in mud. And
look that most of us don't think is appealing. It
doesn't feel good, it's gritty, But what emerges out of
(49:41):
that muddy water is this glorious flower. So going back
to a seed and what a seed has to go through,
buried in dirt and darkness, right, that only when it
is rained on constantly and fertilized sometimes by some human
a dog waste, right, and it has to pierce through
(50:02):
that soil and withstand torrential storms and harsh sun and
other waste that is poured upon that seed as it
as it fights to grow. But ultimately, not only does
it produce a glorious flower, but emits oxygen that we
depend on. We don't think about conflict or trauma resulting
(50:26):
in beauty. And I think that I recognized early on,
with with some help and a lot of tough love,
that the beauty within me I could either bury and
stay rooted in sadness and anger, or I could choose
to fertilize it and use the lessons that I learned
(50:48):
from overcoming those traumas to help other people. I chose
the latter path. It was a choice, and debby, it
is a choice that I make every single day. And
I want your listeners to recognize is that they have
a choice that they can make every single day to
walk in their beauty, to identify it, to look past
(51:10):
the muck and the mire, and to recognize that they
were born perfectly and beautifully made, even with their COVID
brownie pounds on them. Because we can get rid of those, right,
we can get rid of those, but how about that
internal work. UM. I almost say that I expressed to
you that I've been through some really big traumas in
(51:32):
in my life, and I'd say one of the toughest
was when I had a heart attack eight years ago.
I'm a survivor and I lost everything. I mean everything.
There were days where I couldn't even um didn't have
enough money to pay for my power, and I lived
in darkness and there was a lot of shame with that.
(51:55):
UM My family didn't even know because there was shame
in this loss that I had sperience. Here, I've overcome
this huge hurdle in fighting for my life. But I
gotta tell you, after forty um some odd visits to
the doctor's office and four stays in the hospital and
not not knowing whether I would live or not, many
(52:18):
times I would often go home and crawl into my
bed and I would think it would have been so
much easier for me not to have survived, because why
is it that I have helped all of these people
all around the world and I now can't even take
care of myself and I am afraid of dying every
(52:41):
single day Because that trauma, right when you experience it
once there is a perpetual sense of fear that it's
going to happen again, so why should I even try.
It was much easier for me to stay in bed
in total darkness and cold than it was to pull
myself up and decide to fight. But Debbie, when I
started getting really sick of myself and stick could feeling
(53:05):
tired for myself, bad for myself, I'm sorry, and I
got tired of crying, and I decided something beautiful can
come out of this. I wrote a list of the
things that brought me the greatest joy and what my
greatest strengths were, and I rebuilt my life. And I've
used that model many many times. I've taught children around
(53:26):
the world that there are three pillars of life that
if you can achieve these, you can pretty much get
through anything. And that is number one, figuring out who
you want to be, how to become that person, and
then how to remain true to being that person in
the darkest moments of your life. And I think that
the lessons that I have gleaned from overcoming some of
(53:50):
the greatest traumas in my life have helped people find
the greatness within themselves. And that's why I choose to
do this work. I choose to do this work every
single day because I see other people growing from and
becoming more beautified by this work, and it's hard to
let go of that. Yes, it's hard work, but when
(54:12):
you see other people growing from the skills that you
have gleaned from your own suffering and survival, then it's
easy to want to lean in to do the hard work.
Because when we plant that seed of hope, uh and
possibilities and others, than it makes the world better. And
that's what I choose to do every single day. Amazing, amazing.
(54:36):
It's I love, UM, especially that you so eloquently are
speaking to beauty because there's a very specific spiritual path
that is called the Beauty Way, and it's ancient. It's
from you know, all the realms UM since in antiquity.
But it's all about that path of leaning into joy,
(54:56):
cultivating your inner radiance as a tool for trans did
healing and self mastery. So I think that that is
just exquisite. UM. At the end of every show, I
love to share some soul work with the audience, and
I would love to invite you to offer potentially a
self care practice, maybe a journal prompt or something that
(55:19):
can be savored when this episode ends. For each listener,
m So, I would say first that that which brings
you the greatest joy, lean into that. We often question
that which brings us joy, especially if it doesn't fit
into that box that we have been conditioned to believe
(55:41):
we're supposed to fit neatly in, and that if you
don't fit into that box somehow, if you're on the
outside of it, that somehow you have taken a wrong turn.
Instead of recognizing that every single one of us has
a divine path that we're supposed to follow, and that
no buddy's path looks the same. So lean into that
(56:03):
which brings you joy, and you will see the infinite
possibilities that exist within that. When we exist in a
space of joy, when we protect and nurture that joy,
doors open the universal binds in our favor for the
right people, the right resources and opportunities and knowledge for
(56:28):
us to celebrate that every single day of our lives.
And I would challenge your audience to do that. When
you find that joy, do it every single day of
your life. So beautiful dr one day, Austin, How can
everyone find you? How can they connect with you. Yeah,
so there are a few ways they can reach out
(56:50):
to me on Facebook. Um, I have a fledgling social
media page, but you can find me on Facebook at
your Wandi Austin dot not dot com. I'm sorry you
will hand the Austin on Facebook. You can also find
out more about my humanitarian work at Change International dot
(57:10):
org and Global Institute for Diversity and Change dot com.
Thank you so much for joining us. This has been
such a joy spending this time with you, and thank
you for your internal and external radiance. Thank you for
(57:31):
having me, Debbie. Hey, find me on social Let's connect
at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or go to
my website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're listening
to the show on Apple Podcasts, please please please don't
forget to rate, review, and subscribe and send this episode
(57:52):
to a friend. Dropping Jams is the production of I
Heart Radio and Black Effect Network. It's produced by Triple
and Me Debbie Brown. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Host
Devi Brown
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