April 22, 2025 • 27 mins
George is joined by Nigerian-American journalist Rita Omokha. Rita talks about her new book Resist: How a Century of Young Black Activists Shaped America and getting young activists to realize their power. This week's Queer Artist's Spotlight is on 'T4T by Neverending Nina (feat 2AM Ricky).
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
She said, it's not fair that every single dollar that's
coming into this town is going to the all white school.
Our parents have tried time and time again to talk
to the school district to get us a new building.
Nothing is working. But if we all decide not to
go to school, they have to pay attention.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Journalist Rita Amocha is the author of a new book
called Resist, How a Century a young Black activist shaped America.
During her research, she found out about a young civil
rights activist. Most people have not heard about, Barbara Johns.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
And that's what she did, a school wise strike, so
disruptive the NAACP, who at the time were looking for
use cases for the Brown Case. In the end of
all the five consolidated cases that once to Supreme Court,
Prince Edward County out of the one hundred and seventy
seven students represented, county had one hundred and seventeen the
(01:03):
vast majority. And so when I came upon that, I said,
why isn't there more about Barbara John's in mainstream history textbooks?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Singing in them as he handed to the world, take
a sip of brandy, spoke the guy, you know what
the plan is?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
LA one doesn't understand me.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
My name is Georgiam Johnson. I am the New York
Times best selling author of the book All Boys Aren't Blue,
which is the number one most challenged book in the
United States. This is Fighting Words, a show where we
take you to the front lines of the culture wars
with the people who are using their words to make
change and who refuse to be silent. On today's episode,
(01:53):
Rita Amocha. I am here today with my guests. I
don't want to mispronounce your so let's see if I
get it right the first time. Is it Rita Amocha.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yes, it's like oh and mocha, oh Mocha.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I am here with our guest today, Rita Ohmocha. Who
is Rita Omocha?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Ooh? I like that.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Oh well, I'm an author, a professor, and a reporter
in the very brief terms. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
What was it that made you want to become a
journalist and an author?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I was born and partially raised in Nigeria and came
to this country when I was about seven years old,
and I've always loved the written word, and growing up,
I had a really bad stutter and I really didn't
have a lot of friends. It was really hard for
me to assimilate to this country, and so my escape
was always words and books. And so I remember I
(02:49):
was in seventh grade and I read their Eyes Were
watching God, and that just completely changed my life. And
I love that in that book book she uses broken English.
I'm not sure if you read it, but like, it's
so beautiful and I just felt so seen. And that
was like six or seventh grade, so I knew even
(03:10):
though I had a speech impediment, the written word was
something that I can hold on to and just be myself.
I was thinking, okay, practically speaking, I don't come from money.
I need to figure out how to set myself up
for a success. And so I went to college and
I studied business and marketing and finance and graduated top
(03:32):
of my class and then ended up getting jobs at
nice companies like CNN, NBC, Viacom. And again, I think
because I had that background of financial insecurity, I was
really nervous about not having money, so I put aside
my passion. But pretty soon I'm working this amazing job,
six figure jobs, and I just hid my life. I
(03:52):
was depressed. I was like, what am I doing? But
the one thing I kept doing was journaling and reading.
And one day I was like, you know what, I
have to better myself. I have to be more risk
tolerant and not be afraid. I think when you're afraid,
you're thinking what if this happens, what if that happens? Yes,
And I decided, you know what, I'm just going to
(04:13):
put faith in myself, in God and say, even if
this happens, I'm going to keep trying. And that's what
I did. And so I went to Columbia, got my
master's in journalism and graduate top of my class and
got a lot of money for that, and so that
propelled my freelance writing career, and that's what led to
(04:34):
this book.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
So I can definitely relate to your story because I
was a chief financial officer before I started freelance writing
a multimillion dollar nonprofit in DC doing HIV work, So
I totally understand them.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Oftentimes people will say like, well, if you're a.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Math and science, you're using this part and creatives use
this part, and I'm like.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, but I'm both in so like me too.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yes. So I've always wanted to ask someone else who
had that kind of similar background and then went into
being creative.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, does that play a.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Role in how you do your writing?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I think it actually makes me very meticulous, and I
love to do stories that are data driven. So, for example,
during COVID, the one thing I kept thinking about was
what is happening to all the children that their parents
or their guardians are dying? Like where are they and
how are they being housed? Like what happens to them?
And so I started to look at the city seam
(05:27):
reporting almost every month to see is there any data
on this? And then finally in October of I think
twenty twenty one, there was data on it, good data
that broke it down my states, and I was like, yes, numbers,
But what I wanted to do was put an affecting
human face to these numbers. Right, So the numbers was
my starting point. I was able to analyze like the
(05:50):
different states that had the most orphaned children because of COVID,
and then I went to the top three states and
then used my math brain and my creativity to kind
of merge and tell this story while putting this again
human face to the crisis.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
That's always.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
This week's Queer Artist Spotlight is Teeth for Tea by
Never Ending Nina featuring two am Ricky. Here's a short sample.
You can listen to the whole track at the end
of the episode. And now back to my conversation with
(06:45):
journalists and author Rita Amoka. So you brought up your
book Resist. If you got stuck in an elevator with
Beyonce and you only had thirty seconds to explain what
your book was about. What would your elevator pitch on
your book.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Feed with the yes can I speak? I mean, I
would say it's about one hundred years of young black
people who have been at the forefront of fortifying and
safeguarding democracy. But also I think ultimately the biggest lesson
is understanding that freedom wasn't free, and young people have
(07:18):
been at the forefront of strengthening and fortifying democracy. Ooh,
you hate that, right, because I would be to that.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I would be still talking just right now.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I would be like, first of all, I was up here, congrats, finally.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Right, finally. So I guess when I write every book,
I always think about, like, what are the three to
five lessons I want someone to take away with in
the book? What would be maybe one to two or
even three lessons that like when a young adult reads
your book, that you want to be activated in them.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
I grew up in this country, very insulated in our
Nigerian bubble in the top Bronx, So I would say
my first key takeaway was under standing that this freedom
that I so rebel in and live in every day
was not free, and in some sense it's still not free.
We've seen a lot of regression in this particular administration,
So to me, that is one of my biggest key takeaways.
(08:15):
The second one is that your voice is your weapon.
And I think that's such a big one for me,
especially as someone who hid my voice. I had a
really that stutter. But I think that's something that Columbia
helped me see and I learned that I do have
a voice, and I had to get comfortable using my
voice and every single character and group that cover in
(08:36):
the book, that's the one thing they understood. And they
were in a time where freedom was new. Think about
the forties and the thirties, there was just still understanding
what it meant to be free.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Segregation was still the thing. Jim Crow right, think about
the freedoms that we have today. Someone then had to
fight for it. Someone died for it, a lot of
people bled for it, and so understanding what it means
today to have that freedom, but to also understand that
to sustain it, you have to keep speaking on it
to sustain it and to maintain it. And I think
(09:07):
the last lesson is just that anyone can be an activist, right.
I think the baseline definition of activism is performing some
action that leads to some social or political change. And
when you think about it, anyone can be an activist.
You can be a lawyer, you could be your doctor,
you can be your student, you can be your writer,
you can be an author. As long as you're doing
(09:28):
something for goods, something for change, and the impact doesn't
have to be millions of people. It could just be
your immediate radius, doing something to ensure people around you
have access to education, access to books, you know, starting
a book club that just looks at you know, ban books,
things like that. I think every single person can be
(09:48):
an activist. You just first have to know what you
have to offer.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Do you feel media today covers youth activism movements different
from how they were covered historically or do you feel
that they cover them one way in the time that
they're happening and then encapsulate them in a different way
thirty years from now.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Hmmm, that's interesting. I think one thing that has changed
from the past to now obviously is the advent and
the growth of social media. So even when mainstream media
tends to distort what's happening, like think about Ferguson and
micro Brown. There's a lot of distortion happening in the
mainstream media, but you had people like John Netta, Elsie
(10:37):
and Dray and the rest who were there who were
giving us person hand accounts of what was happening. So
even though mainstream media likes to sometimes villainize young black
activists or young activists in general, now that young people
they have the power with their iPhone, with social media
to say no, this is what actually happened. So I
(10:59):
think that has been the advantage.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yeah, definitely. And I remember a lot of the criticisms
that came with the ways in which movement work is
done now versus the ways in which it was done
back then. Do you necessarily believe because I don't believe
that there has to be like an appointed leader or
like a person that we follow, And I remember that
was one of the main criticis was like, there isn't
a defined head of this thing, and I just recall
(11:26):
being like, but the work is getting done. And in
my opinion, leadership has always been a community led thing.
It shouldn't be a person led type of thing. How
do you feel about like the communal type of leadership
route that they have taken.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yeah, I definitely see both sides. I think the reason
a lot of people are looking for a fun facing
person is it's almost like having a spokesperson for your message.
And that's how doctor King was able to rise the
way he rose. So he was only twenty six years
old when he came onto the scene. He was leading
(11:59):
there was a Parks boycott, and why he was so effective,
it's because he knew how to effectively communicate what the
movement was about. So even though it was a collective effort,
what doctor King represented was he was the face of
the movement because he was able to speak clearly about
(12:19):
what their demands were. So I do think there is
something to having a front facing person, a leader to
step up and say this is what we demand, because
simply they can speak effectively and clearly about what they
want to able to gain more allies. Everything's about getting
allies because we know this country is rooted in white supremacy.
(12:41):
The more allies you have, the better. Even think about
recent movements like the Parkland shooting. Out of that came
the March for Ourllis movement. Someone like David Hogg. He
stepped up as the face of the movement to the
point now he's a Vice Dancy chair right because he
was able to build a coalition, he knew how to
effectively speak about what they wanted, even though he had
(13:03):
thousands of young people, thousands of gen zs behind him.
But he's the face. I think there is something important
about having a selected leader or leaders who are able
to communicate clearly what the demands are, what they want
and to build a more intergenerational coalition.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Best ex real nation I've heard probably ever, No, that
was a complete breakdown of how it works, because that's
really what it is like. Even with me fighting the
book bands, it's like people are like, oh, you're the
face of the book.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
I'm like, yeah, I see amplifier of what the work is,
but expectively communicating how impacting black authors has impacting black students.
So I think there's a need for people like you
to be the face of movements like this.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
And I love that you brought up Mlka's age. A
lot of people when you look at him, they probably
think he was much older, and like you said, he
was twenty six, right, Yeah, And when we think of
the Black Panthers, they were twenty.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Twenty one nineteen, you know, like exact.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And history makes them seem much older than what they were,
which I think almost can become a deterrent to the
youth because they don't realize how much power they can
have exactly. Was there anything you found when you were
writing Resists? Was there anything that you found, like any
cool story or like some stories that like stuck out
(14:25):
to you of like whoa, I had no idea this
person did this or went through this. Were there any
stories like that that you found?
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah? I have like a deep obsession out with Barbara
Johns because every time we hear about the Brown versus
Board of Education case, we think about Linda Brown. But
Barbara Johns was a significant figure in that fight. You know,
she was in Prince Edward County in Farmville, Virginia, and
she was going to this all black school obviously nineteen
(14:52):
fifty one and again she will pass by every single
day in her school bus, passing by Farmville High School,
the all white school, and she would see like every
few months they have a new garden, they have a
new library. While she's going to her school and they're
having classes in tar paper shocks where when it rains,
it rains on them. The school grew that when it grew,
(15:13):
they had to put the overcrowding into school buses. So
you go to school on a school bus and you
stay in the school bus to get your lectures for
the day. So for me, when I came upon her
story just going through different news archives, I was like,
who is Barbara Johns? What is this strike? So what
she decided to do was she said, it's not fair
that every single dollar that's coming into this town is
(15:34):
going to the all white school. We have to do something.
Our parents have tried time and time again to talk
to the school district to get us a new building.
Nothing is working. But if we all decide not to
go to school, they have to pay attention. And that's
what she did, a school wise strike, so disruptive. The NAACP,
(15:56):
who at the time were looking for use cases for
the Brown case that was going up to the Supreme Court.
And I think it's so fascinating that in the end
of all the five consolidated cases that went to Supreme Court,
Prince Edward County, out of the one hundred and seventy
seven students represented, Prince Edward County had one hundred and
(16:17):
seventeen the vast majority. And so when I came upon that,
I said, why isn't there more about Barbara John's in
mainstream history textbooks? That just isn't so to me. She
stood out to me. I'm trying to do more work
with her life story because it's just so fascinating. I
think more people need to know about her.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
I always think about the movie Hitting Figures.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And yeah, precisely, yes, the people who.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Were hidden, And like I said, even doing the work
on the Haarlem Renaissance, I was like, wow, like these
people were like catalysts for and we'll talk about you know,
the Bois, but we don't talk about Elain Locke in
that same way.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Exactly was the architect exactly the whole thing?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Right, So I love any type of work that just
uncovers those stories, yeah, and puts them back into the forefront,
and I think it's important for the youth to know
that you can be historic and not necessarily end up
in a history book.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Oh I love that, Yes, exactly, Like you can make
a change, and that's what I said earlier. You can
make a change within your four or five mile radius.
As long as you're focused on that social political impacts,
you're doing it. And just focus on that.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
And now back to my conversation with journalists and author
Rita Amoka, what do you think our resistance needs to
look like now under this second administration? I'll be one
hundred percent honest. Like the Democrats, it's time to reform. Yeah,
I don't even like the word reform. It's time to
(17:55):
destroy and change and become a new party. Because anytime
you could publicly say, well, they have the White House
descended and the House republican, so it's their government. Anytime
you can publicly say that as the minority speaker at
the House, you really should have lost your job that
day because your fight can't stop just because Yeah, because
when y'all are in power, they seem to be able
to still do a lot of blocking right a lot
(18:17):
of things.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
So you can't have it the reverse of that.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
So what do you think the resistance, specifically black resistance,
must look like during this second term.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah. I think for me personally, I know when Trump
first one, I was in the season of mourning because
I knew what was coming, like we're in it right
now and that regression back to a time where I
can't even think we can even fathom what it's going
to be like because we've seen what freedom and what
liberties look like, we've lived in it, and now it's
(18:48):
been stripped away, So there is no reference points for
what we're going through right now. But what I've been
telling my friends is just because they're all similarly mourning,
and I said, well, we have no other choice right
now but to be optimists, right and we have to
find a way to tap into what resistance means for us.
(19:11):
For me, as a writer, I've been telling them writing
is my form of resistance. One of my friends, she's
a partner at a big A, big five, big four
management firms, and her company just got a DEI because
of the federal mandate. So I said, what you can
do as a partner, as a white woman is be
an ally just because DEI, the initiatives are no longer
(19:33):
in place at your company doesn't mean that you cannot
be an ally. You can be part of the ergs,
the employee resource groups and say hey, I'm with you.
What can I do to elevate your voices? How can
I be part of the solution? And I think over archingly,
that should be everyone's goal is how can I be
part of the solution right now? If you know a
(19:56):
family that is a mixed status, immigrant status family, you
can do something. You can help them and say, hey,
if anything happens to you, I can take your kids,
or here's how you can navigate this conversation if I
stops you, whatever the case may be. But I think
right now, as a collective, we need to shift to optimism.
Try as hard as you can, but you need to
(20:17):
tap into what resistance means for you. The Democrats, I
truly believe, had misaligned their messaging during this last election cycle.
They have lost their touch with the working class. They
need to figure out who they are again. And while
they do that, we cannot just sit by and be passive.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
The reason I created the platforms. I want to talk
about the issues, want to talk about heavier topics, but
I always still like to kind of end a little
bit lighter, because you know, I feel like joy is
a part of the toolbox absolutely anything that.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
We have to do.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
And so I do a segment which is called George
is tired. I'm gonna say for this week, I am
really really tired of these additional fees that come with
concert tickets and the price of concert tickets in this country.
I don't know how a ticket that says three hundred
dollars can go to six hundred dollars because of some
service fee, because I'm not sure what the service is
(21:23):
other than you emailing me the ticket.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
That's deep. What are you tired of for that weak?
I think for me, like, I'm tired of being tired.
I'm tired of complaining. I'm tired of like you know,
for a while after Trump won, I was looking at
all the negatives, especially being an immigrant. I was just like,
what does this be me? Because I'm a naturalized citizen.
So I'm like, what if he decisive take that away too?
You know. Yeah, So I'm just tired of like thinking
(21:47):
and churning in my mind all the things that can
go wrong in this country. So I've been very intentional
about decompressing, resetting, and resting because I just cannot lose
my mind right now.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Love that, Love that, Okay. And to close out the show,
I always say, what is your phrase for twenty twenty five?
My phrase for twenty twenty five is scorched to earth
because I've had enough and I've just been listening to
a lot of Tony Morrison lately, and oh god, And
it's funny that we're having this conversation today because it's
all clip where she was talking about artists and how
art is not necessarily a beautiful thing. It's a bloody thing,
(22:20):
and artists get put in prison, writers get put in jail,
writers are killed. Anyone who is trying to create art
that goes against the political structure in the regime that
talks about society is demonized. And so she was like,
as an artist, you have to know, like we are
some of the strongest people out there because we know
that our work could you know, in our life. And
so I think I've now entered the mentality of scorched
(22:42):
the Earth because this is the work I do. Like, yeah,
she's right, this isn't supposed to be pretty and it's
not necessarily supposed to be easy, and so when I'm
getting all these attacks and it's hard, it's like, remember though,
that's that is what this is. But what would be
your phrase for twenty twenty five?
Speaker 1 (22:58):
I think it goes back to my key takeaway from
the book, which is that my voice is my webin,
Our voice is our webon, and I think it starts
by understanding that it is your greatest power, is your
greatest gift, and you have to start to use it.
A lot of people are just like imprisoned by their
mind by fear, and they never speak up. They see
(23:20):
injustice every day, could be at work, it could be
at school, and they're just afraid of speaking up. And
I think, especially now with this administration, we really have
to be active and stop being passive. And I think
a good way to start doing that is first tapping
into your voice and knowing that you do have a voice.
So for me, it be that my voice is my weapon.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Love it, Love it everyone listening. This has been a
wonderful conversation with Rita Omoka. Yes, yes, make sure you
get her book Resists. It is available everywhere books are sold.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Riada.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I want to thank you for coming onto Fighting words today,
and I hope that everyone listening joins in on.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
The fight thanks to having me. I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
If you are silent about your pain, they'll kill you
and say you enjoyed it. This quote comes from Zora
No Hurston, who was a leading figure of the Harlem
Renaissance in the early twentieth century. You heard another quote
from her on the show already, but since my guest
keep bringing her up, we're quoting her again today. The
book that Rida mentions their eyes were watching God is
(24:25):
one of Hurston's most famous works. Hurston wrote it in
nineteen thirty six over the course of a seven week
fellowship in Haiti. The novel tells the story of Jamie
May Crawford, a young woman struggling for independence in the
South after having been married off to an older band.
The book was criticized by some black authors at the
time for focusing on superficial themes like love, sex, and
(24:47):
music instead of the more overtly political and social issues.
It fell into obscurity until the nineteen seventies, when authors
like Alice Walker helped bring Hurston's work back to life.
Hurston's political opinions are debated too this day, but one
thing remains true.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
She never stayed silent.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Now Here in full is Tea for Tea by Never
Ending Nina featuring two A M. Ricky. Thanks for listening
to Fighting Words and hope you'll join us for another
round next week.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Never have a fun times as this for my sisters
and my dogs, my good bros and my dogs.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
The pink swites and the blues with hues like trying
to scorn. They're hitting rolls with thorns and mosst just
kind of dawn. So won't you take money and come on.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
To talk talk.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
About you, talk about you, true.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
True, You know I need some tea for Tea for
true eph you man.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
On fatigue on t.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Fighting Words.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
It's a production of iHeart Podcast in partnership with Best
Case Studios. I'm Georgian Johnson. This EPISO SO was produced
by Charlotte Morley. Executive producers are myself and Twiggy Puchi
Guar Songs with Adam Pinkss and Brick Cats for Best
Case Studios. The theme song was written and composed by
cole Vas Bambianna and myself. Original music by Colevas. This
(27:17):
episode was edited and scored by Michelle macklum Our. iHeart
Team is Ali Perry and Carl Ketel following Rap Fighting
Words Wherever you get your podcast
She said, it's not fair that every single dollar that's
coming into this town is going to the all white school.
Our parents have tried time and time again to talk
to the school district to get us a new building.
Nothing is working. But if we all decide not to
go to school, they have to pay attention.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Journalist Rita Amocha is the author of a new book
called Resist, How a Century a young Black activist shaped America.
During her research, she found out about a young civil
rights activist. Most people have not heard about, Barbara Johns.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
And that's what she did, a school wise strike, so
disruptive the NAACP, who at the time were looking for
use cases for the Brown Case. In the end of
all the five consolidated cases that once to Supreme Court,
Prince Edward County out of the one hundred and seventy
seven students represented, county had one hundred and seventeen the
(01:03):
vast majority. And so when I came upon that, I said,
why isn't there more about Barbara John's in mainstream history textbooks?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Singing in them as he handed to the world, take
a sip of brandy, spoke the guy, you know what
the plan is?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
LA one doesn't understand me.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
My name is Georgiam Johnson. I am the New York
Times best selling author of the book All Boys Aren't Blue,
which is the number one most challenged book in the
United States. This is Fighting Words, a show where we
take you to the front lines of the culture wars
with the people who are using their words to make
change and who refuse to be silent. On today's episode,
(01:53):
Rita Amocha. I am here today with my guests. I
don't want to mispronounce your so let's see if I
get it right the first time. Is it Rita Amocha.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yes, it's like oh and mocha, oh Mocha.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I am here with our guest today, Rita Ohmocha. Who
is Rita Omocha?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Ooh? I like that.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Oh well, I'm an author, a professor, and a reporter
in the very brief terms. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
What was it that made you want to become a
journalist and an author?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I was born and partially raised in Nigeria and came
to this country when I was about seven years old,
and I've always loved the written word, and growing up,
I had a really bad stutter and I really didn't
have a lot of friends. It was really hard for
me to assimilate to this country, and so my escape
was always words and books. And so I remember I
(02:49):
was in seventh grade and I read their Eyes Were
watching God, and that just completely changed my life. And
I love that in that book book she uses broken English.
I'm not sure if you read it, but like, it's
so beautiful and I just felt so seen. And that
was like six or seventh grade, so I knew even
(03:10):
though I had a speech impediment, the written word was
something that I can hold on to and just be myself.
I was thinking, okay, practically speaking, I don't come from money.
I need to figure out how to set myself up
for a success. And so I went to college and
I studied business and marketing and finance and graduated top
(03:32):
of my class and then ended up getting jobs at
nice companies like CNN, NBC, Viacom. And again, I think
because I had that background of financial insecurity, I was
really nervous about not having money, so I put aside
my passion. But pretty soon I'm working this amazing job,
six figure jobs, and I just hid my life. I
(03:52):
was depressed. I was like, what am I doing? But
the one thing I kept doing was journaling and reading.
And one day I was like, you know what, I
have to better myself. I have to be more risk
tolerant and not be afraid. I think when you're afraid,
you're thinking what if this happens, what if that happens? Yes,
And I decided, you know what, I'm just going to
(04:13):
put faith in myself, in God and say, even if
this happens, I'm going to keep trying. And that's what
I did. And so I went to Columbia, got my
master's in journalism and graduate top of my class and
got a lot of money for that, and so that
propelled my freelance writing career, and that's what led to
(04:34):
this book.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
So I can definitely relate to your story because I
was a chief financial officer before I started freelance writing
a multimillion dollar nonprofit in DC doing HIV work, So
I totally understand them.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Oftentimes people will say like, well, if you're a.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Math and science, you're using this part and creatives use
this part, and I'm like.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, but I'm both in so like me too.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yes. So I've always wanted to ask someone else who
had that kind of similar background and then went into
being creative.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, does that play a.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Role in how you do your writing?
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I think it actually makes me very meticulous, and I
love to do stories that are data driven. So, for example,
during COVID, the one thing I kept thinking about was
what is happening to all the children that their parents
or their guardians are dying? Like where are they and
how are they being housed? Like what happens to them?
And so I started to look at the city seam
(05:27):
reporting almost every month to see is there any data
on this? And then finally in October of I think
twenty twenty one, there was data on it, good data
that broke it down my states, and I was like, yes, numbers,
But what I wanted to do was put an affecting
human face to these numbers. Right, So the numbers was
my starting point. I was able to analyze like the
(05:50):
different states that had the most orphaned children because of COVID,
and then I went to the top three states and
then used my math brain and my creativity to kind
of merge and tell this story while putting this again
human face to the crisis.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
That's always.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
This week's Queer Artist Spotlight is Teeth for Tea by
Never Ending Nina featuring two am Ricky. Here's a short sample.
You can listen to the whole track at the end
of the episode. And now back to my conversation with
(06:45):
journalists and author Rita Amoka. So you brought up your
book Resist. If you got stuck in an elevator with
Beyonce and you only had thirty seconds to explain what
your book was about. What would your elevator pitch on
your book.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Feed with the yes can I speak? I mean, I
would say it's about one hundred years of young black
people who have been at the forefront of fortifying and
safeguarding democracy. But also I think ultimately the biggest lesson
is understanding that freedom wasn't free, and young people have
(07:18):
been at the forefront of strengthening and fortifying democracy. Ooh,
you hate that, right, because I would be to that.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I would be still talking just right now.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I would be like, first of all, I was up here, congrats, finally.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Right, finally. So I guess when I write every book,
I always think about, like, what are the three to
five lessons I want someone to take away with in
the book? What would be maybe one to two or
even three lessons that like when a young adult reads
your book, that you want to be activated in them.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
I grew up in this country, very insulated in our
Nigerian bubble in the top Bronx, So I would say
my first key takeaway was under standing that this freedom
that I so rebel in and live in every day
was not free, and in some sense it's still not free.
We've seen a lot of regression in this particular administration,
So to me, that is one of my biggest key takeaways.
(08:15):
The second one is that your voice is your weapon.
And I think that's such a big one for me,
especially as someone who hid my voice. I had a
really that stutter. But I think that's something that Columbia
helped me see and I learned that I do have
a voice, and I had to get comfortable using my
voice and every single character and group that cover in
(08:36):
the book, that's the one thing they understood. And they
were in a time where freedom was new. Think about
the forties and the thirties, there was just still understanding
what it meant to be free.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Segregation was still the thing. Jim Crow right, think about
the freedoms that we have today. Someone then had to
fight for it. Someone died for it, a lot of
people bled for it, and so understanding what it means
today to have that freedom, but to also understand that
to sustain it, you have to keep speaking on it
to sustain it and to maintain it. And I think
(09:07):
the last lesson is just that anyone can be an activist, right.
I think the baseline definition of activism is performing some
action that leads to some social or political change. And
when you think about it, anyone can be an activist.
You can be a lawyer, you could be your doctor,
you can be your student, you can be your writer,
you can be an author. As long as you're doing
(09:28):
something for goods, something for change, and the impact doesn't
have to be millions of people. It could just be
your immediate radius, doing something to ensure people around you
have access to education, access to books, you know, starting
a book club that just looks at you know, ban books,
things like that. I think every single person can be
(09:48):
an activist. You just first have to know what you
have to offer.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Do you feel media today covers youth activism movements different
from how they were covered historically or do you feel
that they cover them one way in the time that
they're happening and then encapsulate them in a different way
thirty years from now.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Hmmm, that's interesting. I think one thing that has changed
from the past to now obviously is the advent and
the growth of social media. So even when mainstream media
tends to distort what's happening, like think about Ferguson and
micro Brown. There's a lot of distortion happening in the
mainstream media, but you had people like John Netta, Elsie
(10:37):
and Dray and the rest who were there who were
giving us person hand accounts of what was happening. So
even though mainstream media likes to sometimes villainize young black
activists or young activists in general, now that young people
they have the power with their iPhone, with social media
to say no, this is what actually happened. So I
(10:59):
think that has been the advantage.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yeah, definitely. And I remember a lot of the criticisms
that came with the ways in which movement work is
done now versus the ways in which it was done
back then. Do you necessarily believe because I don't believe
that there has to be like an appointed leader or
like a person that we follow, And I remember that
was one of the main criticis was like, there isn't
a defined head of this thing, and I just recall
(11:26):
being like, but the work is getting done. And in
my opinion, leadership has always been a community led thing.
It shouldn't be a person led type of thing. How
do you feel about like the communal type of leadership
route that they have taken.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yeah, I definitely see both sides. I think the reason
a lot of people are looking for a fun facing
person is it's almost like having a spokesperson for your message.
And that's how doctor King was able to rise the
way he rose. So he was only twenty six years
old when he came onto the scene. He was leading
(11:59):
there was a Parks boycott, and why he was so effective,
it's because he knew how to effectively communicate what the
movement was about. So even though it was a collective effort,
what doctor King represented was he was the face of
the movement because he was able to speak clearly about
(12:19):
what their demands were. So I do think there is
something to having a front facing person, a leader to
step up and say this is what we demand, because
simply they can speak effectively and clearly about what they
want to able to gain more allies. Everything's about getting
allies because we know this country is rooted in white supremacy.
(12:41):
The more allies you have, the better. Even think about
recent movements like the Parkland shooting. Out of that came
the March for Ourllis movement. Someone like David Hogg. He
stepped up as the face of the movement to the
point now he's a Vice Dancy chair right because he
was able to build a coalition, he knew how to
effectively speak about what they wanted, even though he had
(13:03):
thousands of young people, thousands of gen zs behind him.
But he's the face. I think there is something important
about having a selected leader or leaders who are able
to communicate clearly what the demands are, what they want
and to build a more intergenerational coalition.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Best ex real nation I've heard probably ever, No, that
was a complete breakdown of how it works, because that's
really what it is like. Even with me fighting the
book bands, it's like people are like, oh, you're the
face of the book.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
I'm like, yeah, I see amplifier of what the work is,
but expectively communicating how impacting black authors has impacting black students.
So I think there's a need for people like you
to be the face of movements like this.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
And I love that you brought up Mlka's age. A
lot of people when you look at him, they probably
think he was much older, and like you said, he
was twenty six, right, Yeah, And when we think of
the Black Panthers, they were twenty.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Twenty one nineteen, you know, like exact.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And history makes them seem much older than what they were,
which I think almost can become a deterrent to the
youth because they don't realize how much power they can
have exactly. Was there anything you found when you were
writing Resists? Was there anything that you found, like any
cool story or like some stories that like stuck out
(14:25):
to you of like whoa, I had no idea this
person did this or went through this. Were there any
stories like that that you found?
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah? I have like a deep obsession out with Barbara
Johns because every time we hear about the Brown versus
Board of Education case, we think about Linda Brown. But
Barbara Johns was a significant figure in that fight. You know,
she was in Prince Edward County in Farmville, Virginia, and
she was going to this all black school obviously nineteen
(14:52):
fifty one and again she will pass by every single
day in her school bus, passing by Farmville High School,
the all white school, and she would see like every
few months they have a new garden, they have a
new library. While she's going to her school and they're
having classes in tar paper shocks where when it rains,
it rains on them. The school grew that when it grew,
(15:13):
they had to put the overcrowding into school buses. So
you go to school on a school bus and you
stay in the school bus to get your lectures for
the day. So for me, when I came upon her
story just going through different news archives, I was like,
who is Barbara Johns? What is this strike? So what
she decided to do was she said, it's not fair
that every single dollar that's coming into this town is
(15:34):
going to the all white school. We have to do something.
Our parents have tried time and time again to talk
to the school district to get us a new building.
Nothing is working. But if we all decide not to
go to school, they have to pay attention. And that's
what she did, a school wise strike, so disruptive. The NAACP,
(15:56):
who at the time were looking for use cases for
the Brown case that was going up to the Supreme Court.
And I think it's so fascinating that in the end
of all the five consolidated cases that went to Supreme Court,
Prince Edward County, out of the one hundred and seventy
seven students represented, Prince Edward County had one hundred and
(16:17):
seventeen the vast majority. And so when I came upon that,
I said, why isn't there more about Barbara John's in
mainstream history textbooks? That just isn't so to me. She
stood out to me. I'm trying to do more work
with her life story because it's just so fascinating. I
think more people need to know about her.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
I always think about the movie Hitting Figures.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And yeah, precisely, yes, the people who.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Were hidden, And like I said, even doing the work
on the Haarlem Renaissance, I was like, wow, like these
people were like catalysts for and we'll talk about you know,
the Bois, but we don't talk about Elain Locke in
that same way.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Exactly was the architect exactly the whole thing?
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Right, So I love any type of work that just
uncovers those stories, yeah, and puts them back into the forefront,
and I think it's important for the youth to know
that you can be historic and not necessarily end up
in a history book.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Oh I love that, Yes, exactly, Like you can make
a change, and that's what I said earlier. You can
make a change within your four or five mile radius.
As long as you're focused on that social political impacts,
you're doing it. And just focus on that.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
And now back to my conversation with journalists and author
Rita Amoka, what do you think our resistance needs to
look like now under this second administration? I'll be one
hundred percent honest. Like the Democrats, it's time to reform. Yeah,
I don't even like the word reform. It's time to
(17:55):
destroy and change and become a new party. Because anytime
you could publicly say, well, they have the White House
descended and the House republican, so it's their government. Anytime
you can publicly say that as the minority speaker at
the House, you really should have lost your job that
day because your fight can't stop just because Yeah, because
when y'all are in power, they seem to be able
to still do a lot of blocking right a lot
(18:17):
of things.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
So you can't have it the reverse of that.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
So what do you think the resistance, specifically black resistance,
must look like during this second term.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah. I think for me personally, I know when Trump
first one, I was in the season of mourning because
I knew what was coming, like we're in it right
now and that regression back to a time where I
can't even think we can even fathom what it's going
to be like because we've seen what freedom and what
liberties look like, we've lived in it, and now it's
(18:48):
been stripped away, So there is no reference points for
what we're going through right now. But what I've been
telling my friends is just because they're all similarly mourning,
and I said, well, we have no other choice right
now but to be optimists, right and we have to
find a way to tap into what resistance means for us.
(19:11):
For me, as a writer, I've been telling them writing
is my form of resistance. One of my friends, she's
a partner at a big A, big five, big four
management firms, and her company just got a DEI because
of the federal mandate. So I said, what you can
do as a partner, as a white woman is be
an ally just because DEI, the initiatives are no longer
(19:33):
in place at your company doesn't mean that you cannot
be an ally. You can be part of the ergs,
the employee resource groups and say hey, I'm with you.
What can I do to elevate your voices? How can
I be part of the solution? And I think over archingly,
that should be everyone's goal is how can I be
part of the solution right now? If you know a
(19:56):
family that is a mixed status, immigrant status family, you
can do something. You can help them and say, hey,
if anything happens to you, I can take your kids,
or here's how you can navigate this conversation if I
stops you, whatever the case may be. But I think
right now, as a collective, we need to shift to optimism.
Try as hard as you can, but you need to
(20:17):
tap into what resistance means for you. The Democrats, I
truly believe, had misaligned their messaging during this last election cycle.
They have lost their touch with the working class. They
need to figure out who they are again. And while
they do that, we cannot just sit by and be passive.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
The reason I created the platforms. I want to talk
about the issues, want to talk about heavier topics, but
I always still like to kind of end a little
bit lighter, because you know, I feel like joy is
a part of the toolbox absolutely anything that.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
We have to do.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
And so I do a segment which is called George
is tired. I'm gonna say for this week, I am
really really tired of these additional fees that come with
concert tickets and the price of concert tickets in this country.
I don't know how a ticket that says three hundred
dollars can go to six hundred dollars because of some
service fee, because I'm not sure what the service is
(21:23):
other than you emailing me the ticket.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
That's deep. What are you tired of for that weak?
I think for me, like, I'm tired of being tired.
I'm tired of complaining. I'm tired of like you know,
for a while after Trump won, I was looking at
all the negatives, especially being an immigrant. I was just like,
what does this be me? Because I'm a naturalized citizen.
So I'm like, what if he decisive take that away too?
You know. Yeah, So I'm just tired of like thinking
(21:47):
and churning in my mind all the things that can
go wrong in this country. So I've been very intentional
about decompressing, resetting, and resting because I just cannot lose
my mind right now.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Love that, Love that, Okay. And to close out the show,
I always say, what is your phrase for twenty twenty five?
My phrase for twenty twenty five is scorched to earth
because I've had enough and I've just been listening to
a lot of Tony Morrison lately, and oh god, And
it's funny that we're having this conversation today because it's
all clip where she was talking about artists and how
art is not necessarily a beautiful thing. It's a bloody thing,
(22:20):
and artists get put in prison, writers get put in jail,
writers are killed. Anyone who is trying to create art
that goes against the political structure in the regime that
talks about society is demonized. And so she was like,
as an artist, you have to know, like we are
some of the strongest people out there because we know
that our work could you know, in our life. And
so I think I've now entered the mentality of scorched
(22:42):
the Earth because this is the work I do. Like, yeah,
she's right, this isn't supposed to be pretty and it's
not necessarily supposed to be easy, and so when I'm
getting all these attacks and it's hard, it's like, remember though,
that's that is what this is. But what would be
your phrase for twenty twenty five?
Speaker 1 (22:58):
I think it goes back to my key takeaway from
the book, which is that my voice is my webin,
Our voice is our webon, and I think it starts
by understanding that it is your greatest power, is your
greatest gift, and you have to start to use it.
A lot of people are just like imprisoned by their
mind by fear, and they never speak up. They see
(23:20):
injustice every day, could be at work, it could be
at school, and they're just afraid of speaking up. And
I think, especially now with this administration, we really have
to be active and stop being passive. And I think
a good way to start doing that is first tapping
into your voice and knowing that you do have a voice.
So for me, it be that my voice is my weapon.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Love it, Love it everyone listening. This has been a
wonderful conversation with Rita Omoka. Yes, yes, make sure you
get her book Resists. It is available everywhere books are sold.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Riada.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I want to thank you for coming onto Fighting words today,
and I hope that everyone listening joins in on.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
The fight thanks to having me. I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
If you are silent about your pain, they'll kill you
and say you enjoyed it. This quote comes from Zora
No Hurston, who was a leading figure of the Harlem
Renaissance in the early twentieth century. You heard another quote
from her on the show already, but since my guest
keep bringing her up, we're quoting her again today. The
book that Rida mentions their eyes were watching God is
(24:25):
one of Hurston's most famous works. Hurston wrote it in
nineteen thirty six over the course of a seven week
fellowship in Haiti. The novel tells the story of Jamie
May Crawford, a young woman struggling for independence in the
South after having been married off to an older band.
The book was criticized by some black authors at the
time for focusing on superficial themes like love, sex, and
(24:47):
music instead of the more overtly political and social issues.
It fell into obscurity until the nineteen seventies, when authors
like Alice Walker helped bring Hurston's work back to life.
Hurston's political opinions are debated too this day, but one
thing remains true.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
She never stayed silent.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
Now Here in full is Tea for Tea by Never
Ending Nina featuring two A M. Ricky. Thanks for listening
to Fighting Words and hope you'll join us for another
round next week.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Never have a fun times as this for my sisters
and my dogs, my good bros and my dogs.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
The pink swites and the blues with hues like trying
to scorn. They're hitting rolls with thorns and mosst just
kind of dawn. So won't you take money and come on.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
To talk talk.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
About you, talk about you, true.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
True, You know I need some tea for Tea for
true eph you man.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
On fatigue on t.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Fighting Words.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
It's a production of iHeart Podcast in partnership with Best
Case Studios. I'm Georgian Johnson. This EPISO SO was produced
by Charlotte Morley. Executive producers are myself and Twiggy Puchi
Guar Songs with Adam Pinkss and Brick Cats for Best
Case Studios. The theme song was written and composed by
cole Vas Bambianna and myself. Original music by Colevas. This
(27:17):
episode was edited and scored by Michelle macklum Our. iHeart
Team is Ali Perry and Carl Ketel following Rap Fighting
Words Wherever you get your podcast
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