Full Mutuality

Happy Valentine's Day! On today's episode, Gail and Nate talk about what happens when you love everyone and everything else more than God. Oh, and be sure to check out the Content Warning event taking place in Portland this weekend! Tickets are available at contentwarningevent.com.

If you're looking for support for religious trauma survivors, check out the Reclamation Collective at reclamationcollective.com.

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In the third part of our miniseries, "My Cult Was in a Documentary," Eric Skwarczynski joins the show to talk about his work investigating the Independent Fundamental Baptists and about the Max/Investigation Discovery docuseries Let Us Prey: A Ministry of Scandals.

Eric's Links:

• Instagram | @preacherboysdoc
• Preacher Boys podcast | website
• Film School'd podcast | Apple Podcasts

Let Us Prey:

• Watch on Investigation Disc...

Dr. Camille Lewis joins Gail and Nate to share her story of growing up in the IFB, her life at Bob Jones University, the controversies that forced her to leave, and her ongoing work analyzing and reporting on BJU and the larger world of fundamentalism.

• Read Dr. Lewis' story of leaving BJU here.
• Follow Dr. Lewis' ongoing reporting and analysis of BJU and fundamentalism here.

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Our good friend Jessica Goforth joins us to talk about her reactions to the Amazon Prime series Shiny Happy People, which exposes some of the abuses in the Christian cult known as IBLP or ATI.

Jessica is the host of the podcast Leaving the Village, where she shares her own story of surviving IBLP and interviews others who have also escaped the cult she grew up in. You can subscribe to her podcast at dauntless.fm/leavingthevillag...

Nate and Gail return for an update on life. We discuss weddings (especially the problems with evangelical ones), current events, Palestine and Israel (briefly), meeting people you've made friends with online, building new community after leaving toxic spaces, how to not fall into previous traps that people often take out of evangelicalism into their deconstruction, binary thinking, and what TV shows and some podcasts we have been l...

Rabbi Ariann Weitzman spends some time addressing a few of the common misconceptions Christians have about Jews and educating us about the relationship between the two religions. This insightful conversation is among our favorite episodes, and we hope you find it as helpful and informative as we did!

• Bnai Keshet Reconstructionist Synagogue
• Four Common Misunderstandings about Judaism

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On this episode we are joined by Christopher Peterman, a former student at Bob Jones University who organized the first ever student-run protest at BJU. Chris shares his own story of abuse at BJU and the severe trauma that motivated him to stand up to the administration at the self-proclaimed "Fortress of Faith."

Further Reading:

• "Bob Jones University Blamed Victims of Sexual Assaults, Not Abusers, Report Says," The New York ...

Gail and Nate discuss a bit about the history of Bob Jones University, its influence on the Evangelical world at large, and the odd extremism it's known for. Rick Pidcock joins in to provide some updates on the university and share some thoughts about the possible future of the institution.

Sources:

• Bob Jones University v. United States
• "The Real Origins of the Religious Right," Politico
• "Billy Graham had a rocky relationship w...

Nothing upsets manly men quite like stepping beyond the gender norms, and stay-at-home dads are a great way to get them all riled up. In this episode, we chat with our friends Rick and Scott, who share some insights into their lives as stay-at-home dads and what it says about their masculinity. Spoiler alert: it says nothing, except that maybe they're not all that insecure in it.

Scott Okamoto:

• Website | rscottokamoto.com
• Podc...

Janice Lagata returns! Janice and Nate were both members of Hillsong NYC until they left in 2017, and since then their former church has been the subject of numerous exposés and documentaries. The latest, The Secrets of Hillsong by FX and Vanity Fair dives into their disgraced former pastor, Carl Lentz. Though Janice isn't exactly thrilled with how the series handled the subject matter...

Links:

Janice: "The Secrets of Hillsong: ...

Scott Okamoto is back!!! And this time, he's bringing a book with him. The author of the newly released Asian American Apostate joins Gail and Nate to talk about his own journey that led to this book, his career as a professor at an Evangelical university, and how sorry he feels for English grammar perfectionists.

Asian American Apostate:

• Bookshop.org
• Amazon
• Kobo

Scott on the internet:

• Website: rscottokamoto.com
• Podca...

On our Season 1 finale, Gail and Nate sit down with Angie Kay Hong, writer, worship leader, critical convener, and one of the co-founders of Kinship Commons. Angie discusses the different ways purity culture further targets women of color uniquely to how it targets White women. She also commiserates with Nate on their shared love for the comfort foods of their respective cultures.

Follow Angie:

• Instagram | @angiekayhong
• Substa...

On today's episode, Scott Okamoto from the Chapel Probation podcast co-hosts with Nate for a special Asian-American-themed episode. Nate and Scott are joined by Naomi Ko and May Lee-Yang, two of the co-founders of the Funny Asian Woman Kollective (FAWK). Naomi and May share about their work in comedy, their experiences as Asian-American women, and participate in a roundtable conversation with Nate and Scott about their shared and d...

On this episode, Gail and Nate take a look at some of the big news that rocked the Evangelical world the last couple weeks. They also give a peek behind the scenes at what it takes to make the podcast and share some of the history of how the podcast came into existence.

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On February 23, 2023, the Asbury "revival services" will reach their climactic conclusion as men like Francis Chan, Rick Warren, and worship leaders from the International House of Prayer descend onto the stage of Hughes Auditorium on the campus of Asbury University in the small rural community of Wilmore, Kentucky. Many are in awe of the seeming spontaneity of these services, which began on February 8. People from around the world...

We conclude our roundtable conversation in this episode with the last two points in Steven Hassan's BITE model of authoritarian control and how Evangelicalism fits these descriptions. We also took a little bit of time to address the "He Gets Us" ad campaign that has the Evangelical world simultaneously giddy and furious. As a bonus, we wrap up with a few of the cornier Christian catchphrases we could think of. If you've got any mor...

In part 2 of our roundtable conversation with Janice Lagata, we begin working our way through Steven Hassan's BITE model of authoritarian control and take a look at how our various experiences in different Evangelical groups fall under the categories listed in the BITE model.

Janice:

• Website | janicelagata.com
• Instagram | @godhasnotgiven
• Podcast | God Has Not Given
• Book | A Seriously Hilarious, Surprisingly Heartfelt, Completely...

Nate and Gail are joined by Dr. Brad Onishi, professor at Skidmore College who teaches and researches Christian nationalism and the history of White Evangelicalism. Brad is one of the hosts of the Straight White American Jesus podcast, a religion and politics show that analyzes the Christian nationalist movement in the United States. Brad's new book, Preparing for War: The Extremist History of White Christian Nationalism–And What C...

Our good friend Janice Lagata from God Has Not Given joins Gail and Nate for a roundtable conversation discussing the question, "Is Evangelicalism a cult?" In the first part of our conversation, we introduce the topic and touch on Steven Hassan's BITE model of authoritarian control.

Links mentioned in the episode:

• ‘An Evangelical Childhood is a Total Mindfuck’ New Memoir Recounts the Anxiety and Thrills of Growing Up a Conser...