April 14, 2025 • 40 mins
An ageing Boomer bad boy and a queer 21-year-old multi-millionairess locked in a house together. What could possibly go wrong? Quite a lot actually. Many thoughts. We discuss what happened with Jojo Siwa and Mickey Rourke on Celebrity Big Brother.
Plus, there were lots of cool people in the desert this weekend, paying $20 AUD for a 'super duper' shower. That's right, it's Coachella season. As always, the fashion is arguably the main festival headliner, and hosts Holly Wainwright, friend of the pod Em Vernem and the legend that is Clare Stephens, define the different levels of cool within this influencer world.
And, relationships. What do the top five percent of them have in common and why is it so horrifying to Em? Group therapy is in session.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
If you've had your phone in your hand at all
this weekend, then you all know that Coachella was on.
There's activations everywhere, which is the term for like over here,
here's the vodkas stand over here, here's a life insurance stand.
I guarantee yourself against whatever terrible life mistakes you're about
to make this weekend.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I love how these are the activations you exactly me the.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Vodcast and then let me ensure myself. Hello and welcome
to Mama Mia out loud. It's what women are actually
talking about. Monday, the fourteenth of April. My name is
Holly Waynwright and today I am joined by two very
exciting guests. Would you like to introduce yourselves? Friends?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Hello, I am m Vernham. I host our daily entertainment
podcast A Spill, and I'm sitting in for me today.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
We have missed you and vern and welcome back.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I missed your voice on the show.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
I sound like Jesse Stephens, but I am Claire Stephens
because Jesse's away clawed my way back in nobody. Nobody
invited me. I just banged on the door.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Og out loud as no that you are no stranger.
No to these microphones. You actually filled in for Jesse
Stevens when she was on Mattley. I did, I did stretch. Yes,
you missed us.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I really have guys, and I listen to every episode
and I yell Friday's episode, Friday's episode about diagnosis.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Oh, there was some yelling, mostly Jesse. Anyway, I likes yell.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, don't yell at me anyway. You can yell on
Mike Today on the show, an aging gen X bad
boy and a queer twenty one year old multimillionairess have
been locked in a house together and filmed for our entertainment?
What could possibly have gone wrong? Also, Elon Musk is
crawling office messages for signs of disloyalty. What would your
(02:07):
boss find if they did the same, And what did
the top five percent of relationships have in common? And
why is it horrifying to our Emily Vernon? But first,
in case he missed it. Amy Leu Woods, who we
know as Chelsea from season three of The White Lotus.
She posted an Instagram story last night that said she
(02:29):
found an SNL skit about her character mean and annoying.
So the skit on.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
SNL was called the White Potus and it was replacing
the White LOADUS season three characters with US political figures.
The only character that remained the same was Chelsea, played
by comedian Sarah Sherman. So Amy Lous Woods said that
the SNL skit was punching up on everyone else's portrayed
in the skit besides Chelsea, where they leaned into taking
(02:54):
digs at her teeth. These insane ideas like what if
we took all the flouride out of the drinking water
to people's teeth?
Speaker 3 (03:03):
All right?
Speaker 4 (03:04):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Look?
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Oki killed an e No, not the bulky.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
After this, there was so much backlash from her fans,
and SNL apologized to her. However, her co star Walton Goggins,
who played Rick in The White Lotus, commented on the
SNL video saying, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha amazing people call them out, saying your
coasty literally said this was really mean, and then he
(03:37):
doubled down and posted the whole schedule on his Instagram story.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Can we put a pin in? Walton for a second,
because I know you've got some scrollers gossip we do,
we do. I obviously I love Amy Lou and I
was offended on her behalf, not only about the teeth
but also the terrible mancunion accent that that actress tried
to do. It was actually embarrassing for everybody. But I
agree with her and if she was offended, of course
I totally get that. But isn't that what SNL does. Like,
(04:03):
isn't the whole point of it? As you dress up
to look like people and you exaggerate their features so
people know who you are.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
I saw like, I saw the image, the still image,
and I saw Amy Lou Wood's response to it, and
then I went and watched the whole skit in full.
And I usually don't find SNL very funny. I find
it a bit creamy. It's like a very kind of
big humor that I don't really reckon. Yes, but there
were things about that skit. The bit about the teeth
(04:32):
was like funny on a few different levels because it
actually was that character. It wasn't a political character like
all the other moments throughout the show. And I think
a show like SNL, when you know kind of the
match nations of how it works.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
They're gonna get it wrong.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Like they are delivering so much content, they are making
so many jokes. Sometimes they're gonna miss the mark, and
I think they kind of have to be allowed to.
I think that's how humor works.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
It is interesting though that, as you've both said, like
everybody else in there was a powerful person and the
gag was about she was with the Wilt Goggins character
Bes played by John Hammond. He makes gag about floor ride.
He makes a joke because he's playing RFK. Let's take
the floor right out of the water. And then we
go to Amy Lou and inverted Comma's teeth. It was
a cheap shot. But back to Walton, I just you know,
(05:23):
I don't know where to start with that. But back
to him, why was it so shocking that he liked
that post. Okay might think you have some gossip for us.
I do have some gossip. I talked about this on
the spill and I whispered it. So no, I couldn't
get in trouble because it is gossip. B But there
are some solid rumors going around that's something romantic happened
between Walton and Amy on the set of The White Loaders,
(05:45):
which I feel like happens every single season.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Because what happened was they were following each other and
he was posting and tagging her, and then all of
a sudden, he was tagging everybody else from the cast
except her. So then these rumors came out, and they
just seem like, do I know their rumors?
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yes? Is it gossip? Yes?
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Do I absolutely believe it? And so when he shared that,
it seemed a bit snarky and a bit like a pope.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
But also I don't want to be stereotypical, but he's
older and he probably doesn't get you know how sometimes
older people don't get that if you press like it
means I endorse all the contents of this video. And
it was probably before she'd come out and said because
if she hadn't have said anything, because so she posted
to her story saying, I thought it wasn't nuanced and
it hurt my feelings and I'm insecure about my teeth
(06:34):
because people are always bloody talking about them. Maybe he
hadn't seen that yet. I want to defend Amy Lou
because this is scoreless gossip and it drags her into it.
Appearing to have an affair with a married man. Maybe
she did, maybe she didn't. She's not attached, but like,
let's not take it as red that she did that.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Well, he definitely didn't see her posting it because he
blocked her, So he couldn't. He couldn't have said he or.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Either of them have blocked it. Like we don't know
that he blocked her.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
I'm pretty sure he blocked her because I went into
a bit of a deep lit because they were like
really gushy about each other during the first half of
the press for The White Lotus and then suddenly all
of her comments on his post disappeared, but like his
comments on her posts were still there, So I think
he had a bit of a freak out and like
he now he's just like overly gushy about his wife.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Oh okay, okay. And Jason Isaacs also had a little
bit of a comment on a red carpet that made
it sound like some stuff went down.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
He's just a bit messy. My friend, he lock a
load of actors in a resort for seven months and
searing heat. Shit's gonna happen, and they're all really good looking.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Yeah, they're gonna hook up with each other. I think
I would have hooked up with Patrick's sportsmaker.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I have a weird.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Soft spot, definitely Patrick.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Over the weekend, you may have seen several headlines about
a series of comments made by Mickey Rourke towards Jojo
Seawat on Celebrity Big Brother UK. Now, depending on your age,
you might not know a what a Mickey Rourke is, well.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
B what a Jojo Seaway exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So first let me explain it a very specific set
of celebrities.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
You either know one or the other you cannot know.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Well, actually I do know both of both, but that's
because I lived through Mickey Rourke's hot years and I
had a daughter at the exact same time that the
Jojo bows went nuts. You're like a union, so I
am like, I'm in a particular like crossover subset. But
you're absolutely right, clust even.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I love Jojo.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
I know everything about Jojo. I do not like Micky,
never seen him for him mile, But Mickey Rawle.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
He used to be a thing, but not for a
long time.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
He's a seventy two year old American actor and former
professional boxer, and in the planning meeting this morning.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Holly you said he used to be hot, so I
googled him. You can confirm.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
He starred in The Wrestler alongside Evan Rachel would and
he won a Golden Globe for it.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
So he's like, he's an actor actor.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
He used to be like way back in the eighties
and things. He was like one of those, like a
Johnny Deppy kind of one of those real he's going
to be a massive deal, and then he went off
the rails and he wasn't a massive deal, and then
The Wrestler was a comeback, but then he went off
the rails gain.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Kind of like Celestera Saloone. That's what I feel like
he should have been.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, but in the first instance, he was a bit
more serious and cool. Anyway, let's just say it's been
a while since his heyday.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Yeah, well, I think maybe his appearance on Celebrity Big
Brother shows why. Jojo Siwah is a twenty one year
old singer and dancer who appeared on Dance Mums as
a child and then went on to establish a film,
television and music creer. One of the last times I
was on this show, she had just released Karma and
was proclaiming herself to have started a new genre of
(09:39):
music called gay pop.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
It was a wonderful dime.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
But they're both on Celebrity Big Brother UK which just started,
and in one of the first episodes of the series,
here's what happened.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Like girls, boys me girls.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I know, I can tell my partner is non binary. Hey,
if you won't be gay anymore, I can guarantee I
will still be gay and I was still be in
a very happy relationship. I'll tie you up, don't prise
do that won't happen. I dare you to try.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
You'll be the one tied up.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I'm going to vote the lesbian out real quick.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
That's so, that's on a war be if that was the.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Lesbian, I'm going to vote.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Can't say that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Jojo lovely lovely girl. Yeah, I'll talk at deal.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
You can't say that, Mickey.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
One breath at a time, Droop's one breath at a time,
I know.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
But he was talking about a cigarette.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I know you, I know.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Yeah. He was called to the diary room afterwards and
given a warning, to which he said, I apologize.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
I'm just talking smack.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
You know, I wasn't taking it all so serious to
see what afterwards He apologized for having a short fuse,
which didn't actually make sense given what he said, but
he was told he would be removed from The Big
brother House if he exhibited further language or behavior of
this nature, which spoiler alert he did and he has.
As of Saturday, he agreed to leave the show following
(11:06):
another incident entirely unrelated to the with Jojo, but the
fallout of his comments towards Jojo was Mammoth. Her partner
Kath Ebbs post about the exchange. Kath referred to it
having so many layers to it, and Ebbs pointed out
that referring to turning Jojo straight and tying her up
(11:28):
were both really violent jokes and actually more serious than
the hope of phobia. Do we think the reaction to
this is evidence of progress? The fact that it was
just like Mickey, no, Mickey stop, you can't say that.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Absolutely. I think it's really interesting because you know how
I just before I was kind of half heartedly defending
Walton Goggins, trolling Amy lou by saying, oh, he's old,
he doesn't really get it. That's exactly what Mickey Rourke's
rep tried to do, right. She tried to play the
whole culture wars card, she said, because he's seventy two, obviously,
and she said, he speaks from his heart and he means, well,
(12:05):
he's not creeppy, he's not pervy, he's not trying to
offend gay people. Just doesn't realize that now every word
you say can and will be used against you, and
that's just the way this world works now. Bullshit, he used.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
A homophobicsler, knowing what he was saying because he was
trying to do a play on work.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
One hundred percent he did. And also he is exactly
the guy who would have no respect for a twenty
one year old queer performer who has millions and millions
of dollars more than he does these days, Like he
would have no respect for that. The only thing about
this is that all the outrage this is just stunt casting.
(12:44):
Like why do you put Mickey Rourke in the celebrity
Big Brother House?
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Right?
Speaker 1 (12:47):
You pay him half a million pounds, which is nearly
a million dollars Australian dollars, and you know that he
isn't going to be able to cope with any of
the people in there and be anything like, I don't know,
civil to anybody, but that's going to bring the drama
in the excitement. So you wind him up, you watch
him go, and he probably knew he just had to
get through a few days to cash his check.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
He made a joke about only staying there for four
days exactly, and I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
If you got through that, but I agree.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
I think he was in no way fit to be
in that context, like he was always gonna say something
like that. I think Jojo handled it so well. She
was just like, that's homophobic, and everybody around her just
called him out. There was no laughing and it wasn't
aggressive either. They called him out in quite a polite, gentle,
(13:33):
but firm way.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I also think that him being in Big Brother was
actually for him a very safe environment to make those comments,
like nothing could happen to him, nothing could touch him.
And similar to JoJo's response, I feel like in any
other situation, like if maybe her partner was there and
that comment was directed at someone else, she probably could
have gone off at him. And I think it's always
(13:56):
comes down to like how you handle that certain situation,
because I think all the time of when I've been
in and this is like the one environment that I
feel I always just stay calm, and it's in an
Uber and I've had a few times where Uber drivers
have just said things completely out of pocket to me.
I had one Uber driver saying, make sure you marry
within your race, like no one wants to see you
(14:17):
marrying anyone else, like crazy stuff, and I end up
agreeing with them because I am so scared, because like
I'm not only like trapped in this car with this person,
but I'm so scared that, like my life is pretty
much in their hands in this car, all the power
is with all the powers with them, And it's really
annoying that like when these things happen, when you see
such gross behavior, it always is like in the lens
(14:40):
of like this person is in such a safe environment
to say that, and it's so unfair.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
It's interesting though, because as I just said, it's stunt casting,
but it kind of feels to me like stunt casting's
natural conclusion because they wanted him to bring the drama.
But actually, as you know very well, and that behavior
is just boring, you know what I mean, It's boring
and tired and offensive. And to your point, Claire, about
the fact that the people around him, weren't They were
(15:04):
just going, Oh, you know, you can't say that it
wasn't exciting drama. What's surprising or interesting about a seventy
two year old has been who clearly used to behave
He's you know, put up on charges before of spousal battery,
he's publicly wrestled with addiction and with his own mental
health issues, but also a lot of violence. You say
(15:25):
that he's in a safe environment, and he is, but
he's a dangerous man to put in that situation in
lots of ways, right, because he isn't going to like
having his ego challenged by young people, especially not young females.
And so in a way, it's kind of oh, you know,
we all know what it feels like when you have
to watch some boring old dude bumble about telling everybody
(15:46):
that he can't say anything anymore because the world's gone mad?
Like is that good tv?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
It is boring, But at the same time, like Big
Brother only needed that to happen, for them to have
all their rating, example, for everyone in the world to
talk about it like it's an international show and we're
talking about it, and I think no matter like the
scale of how boring or not boring, it is, it's
still something that never gets said out loud, and that's
literally all they needed for raiding.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
And do you think in a way that's kind of
good because it exposes the taxi driver guys, the Mickey
Rourke's of the world, that there still are guys who
just walk around the world feeling entitled enough to say
shit to young women. Well, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I feel like if I wasn't on this podcast, like
that taxi driver story like would never be heard. So
I think it's still one of those situations where unless
like people actually have the environment where they can bring
up these stories in a safe way. Like I still
think these guys are just gonna just keep doing what
they're doing, Like that taxi driver has no idea I'm
talking about him, and you'll keep talking like that to
(16:42):
young women in this car.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I do reckon.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
As much as I feel for Jojo, I feel for
JoJo's family, I feel for JoJo's partner because it was
really hurtful.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, Jojo was really upset. She was crying on the
show at the time, Like she was doing a good job,
as you said before, Claire of like remaining calm and
just being, you know, very cool about it. She absolutely
was pitch perfect in her response, but she was clearly
really shaken and up.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Yeah, but as somebody m I've also been in scenarios
where a man and you can never tell, like I
didn't know about those charges against him.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
I didn't know he was a violent man.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Big.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yeah, they I'm sure they did.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
And I have been in situations where a man says
things that in my head, I'm going that's homophobic, that's sexist,
that's racist, and you don't know how to.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Say it out loud.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
You don't kind of have a blueprint of how to
challenge it. And what I liked about this was that
I think they challenged it. It was a really nice
example to see how you challenge it really firmly, but
not in the way that.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
People would expect.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
So even his publicists coming out and having that whole statement,
and it's like it actually wasn't a gen Z person
being dramatic and being over sensitive.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
It actually wasn't.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
If anything, he looked over sensitive, and he looked like
he was just totally totally out of touch. Everybody else
was incredibly calm, and if anything, I think it gives
me a bit of an example for the next time
somebody says something that you just quite flatly say that's
homophobic and it just fits and you don't have to
take it back and you don't have to laugh.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
In a moment, our friend who's not really our friend,
Elon Musk, is crawling White House office comms for signs
of disloyalty. What would your boss find? Be careful what
you say, what you type, and what you do. That
was a US government department's advice to its employees after
the news that Elon Musks doge. That's the Department of
(18:43):
Government Efficiency is using its own special AI tools to
crawl civil servants emails, Google chats and even Facebook and
ex posts. Now it actually looks like at the minute,
Musk is on his way out of Trump World, which
is probably good news for everybody, because he's feuding with
one of the guys who's the big architects of the
Tariff mayhem. He's a guy called Pete Navarro, and they've
(19:05):
been scrapping on social media and saying loads of bad
shit to each other, so much so that the press
secret at the whire House has had to say, oh well,
boys will be boys, which is not a sentence you
expect to hear in a parliamentary press conference. But anyway,
I digress. If the Trump Musk love affair is over,
it isn't before he's put the yips in any worker
who has ever bitched about their boss at work, and
(19:26):
by that we mean everyone Musk's AI police are looking
for exactly that bitching. We have been told, says a
source at the Environmental Protection Agency, that they're looking for
anti Trump or anti Musk language. It seems to me
that they should have better things to do. But there
are now reports that one head of a government agency
was even hooked up to a lie detective for an interview.
(19:48):
And people who work in these offices are turning their
work phones off because they're worried that they're being tracked
if they leave the offices with them. They're replacing emails
with face to face meetings and avoiding putting anything in writing. Claire,
does this sound like efficiency to you? And does the
idea of a boss reading all your comms freak you out?
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (20:06):
And see, I always thought whenever anybody was panicking about
like your emails or what's public or what people can
read about you. I was always like, but it's fine
because I'm so boring and I'm such a small cog
in the machine of the world that nobody is ever
going to care what I've said about anything.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
But now with AI, it's like, oh.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
No, it doesn't take much work for people to find
a certain name or a keyword in your communications. It's
not that somebody is manually trawling through. It's that they're
doing it in a really quick, instantaneous way and finding
stuff that could be completely out of context.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
And robots don't get bored, No, they don't.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
And at first when I saw this, part of my
instinct was like, oh well, And then when I actually
did more and more reading, I realized how scary this
is in the context of Elon Musk and Bloody Doge.
The problem is that if they're looking only for loyalists,
if they're looking only for people who are going to
(21:07):
be loyal to Trump, say, the problem with Trump is
that he breaks the rules, and he will be looking
for people who are going to turn a blind eye
to corruption and to breaking the law and to questioning
elections Like this is actually really scary, And I didn't
(21:27):
realize that Doge has operated in secrecy since its formation.
It's got around all the kind of usual stop gaps
and all the usual security laws.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Because it's a made up thing exactly, so it doesn't
have to abide by any guardrails because there aren't any
because it's not a real thing.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
So the people saying I'm turning my phone off because
I'm scared of being traced or listened to or whatever,
they're not being paranoid because we have absolutely no way
of knowing what they're actually doing. They're kind of bypassing
all the government systems. And I kept saying this thing
about Google Docs, that they're working in Google Docs, and
(22:08):
I was like, yeah, everyone works in Google Doc. We
do for this podcast. But the difference is with government
decisions and things this heavy, you need like a paper trail,
and they're removing the paper trail and it's all just
happening in a Google Doc where you can't kind of
see what they've put in, or where the changes have
come from, or what people's input is.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
It's really really scary.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
And then the last thing is that people are saying
that Musk, because again this is not a real thing.
He might be using his AI bot in government systems
to harvest data that can then be used to give
his companies a commercial advantage.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
It's really scary.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
And often people are surprised to find out that the
things they say at work aren't really private. Are you
mortified at the idea of people reading what you're saying
at work?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I wouldn't say mortified. I would say I'm more angry
because I feel like talking shit on office comms should
be something that everyone's allowed to do. It should be
a human right because it has nothing to do with
the workplace. It's about your lifestyle, and it actually filters
into your personal life because this is how friends are made.
So talking shit on office comms is actually the gateway
(23:20):
to make a coworker into a friend. You can't straight
away like text a coworker or email a coworker privately
talking shit about the work because that's too much. You
sound so serious, you sound like you're obsessed with your
job too much. It needs to be like a slow
transition where you're like, on slack, that was weird, Like
when she said that to me, I was weird. And
(23:40):
then that person agrees and you're like, Okay, we're on
our way to make sign it's a sign. So you
need that gateway and then once your friends, then you
move it to private. But give us our gateway.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
I agree.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
That is so true because you don't have the person's
number to text them the bitch, and you can only
do it over work comms.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
And that is so true.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
The way people bond is over like the dynamics of workplace,
I e. Severance, the only way anyone got along was like,
actually this place.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
This is true, but in the absence of me, I
have to put my boss pants on. I'm not really
a boss anymore, but I was for a lot of years.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
You're both my bosses.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, we have both been your boss at different points
in this Luckily, I'm about to go into a word
set like said about hollyway right, But anyway, the thing
is with my boss pants on. Why am I paying
you to waste your time bitching about me?
Speaker 3 (24:35):
I have a point.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
I have a point, and I have it for Elon
as well. People's views change, So if you're doing a
search and you're seeing the time I bitched about Holly,
I might not feel that way anymore.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I just felt like that in a moment.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
So I present them to you. And I said, do
you stand by this st.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
I say no? Or do I You'll never know, but
it might have evolved.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Apparently a lot of corporate places now have this kind
of not as hardcore as Elon's in that way, but
because there's so much into office messaging now with slack
and teams and all those things, and there is so
much time wasting that can be done on them, let's
be honest that a lot of places are bringing in
these corporate rules that say we are allowed to access
your messages at any time. We heard a story in
(25:21):
our meeting today when we were talking about incidences of this.
We'd heard of where four people were dragged into their
bosses office at a big corporate company and confronted with
the words that they'd said on the interoffice messaging that
may or may not have involved calling their boss. A
said these quiet shocking things about their boss. And imagine
(25:43):
sitting in a HR meeting and having that shown to
you it had been highlighted in yellow pen. Is that okay? Yet? Really?
Speaker 2 (25:49):
I think the printing out, let's not waste paper over here.
I think that's a bit too.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
That bloody Elon is all about, you know, wasting time
and resources, and I would say the meeting is a
waste of time. The highlight is a waste of time,
the line detector is a waste of time. Elon, You're
not being very efficient. Feedback is a gift from both
the perspective of the giver as well as the recipient.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
If you've had your phone in your hand at all
this weekend, then you all know that Coachella was on.
That big music festival in the California desert that seems
to go on forever, but actually it's two whole weekends, right,
Every single famous person in the universe goes to Coachella,
don't they. It's like in the diary Apparently this weekend
Lady Gaga was career defining amazing.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Oh did you see the videos?
Speaker 1 (26:38):
I did? She is I just can't bow down.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
She's coming to Australia, is she?
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Yeah, She's coming to Australia. That made me more excited
to watch the video.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Patrick Schwarzenegger was dancing to his White Loaders Coastars, Lisa
Sett looking exactly like Saxon on a bender and all
of that's ace. But I have some feedback for Coachella,
specifically about the fashion. It's long been known as the
influencer Olympics. Right, Lots of brands from all over the
world fly their faces over there to make a lot
(27:09):
of content. And over that weekend there's activations everywhere, which
is the term for like over here, here's the vodka
stand over here, here's a life insurance Stan I guaranteeing
yourself against whatever terrible life mistakes you're about to make
this weekend.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
I love how these are the activations.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
You give me the vodka and then let me ensure myself.
Being seemed to be there is every bit is important
as being there. But there is no clearer illustration of
the difference between Britain and America than the difference between
Glastonbury and Coachella. Right, case in point, Beck Jodd. Now
I'm not dissing Beck Jodd, Right, I know Beg Judd
(27:42):
a little bit. I've worked with her before. She's lovely,
she's ace, but she goes to Coachella like it is
the met Garla. She get hard every year and what
particularly sort of it didn't make me puffer fish. I
wasn't angry. I was just like, whoa is this year's
theme dressing? So on the second night, she and all
her girl pals had to wear white, and there are
(28:02):
these pictures of them in these immaculate white outfits that
seem impractical when you are in a desert, no offense,
you gonna get dirt. Yep, everything's mature. We've had glam
squads since four am, which is the time you should
be going to bed at a music festival, not getting
up for the lipstick. And I'm just like, is this
the most hard work music festival of all time?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I feel like it's changed. So I saw beg Jud's
photos and I firstly thought it was a bachelorette party,
because isn't that what you dress on theme for? Only
then I know where you dress on theme. But I
thought like, it didn't actually bring it that hard this
year Coachella dressing.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
And I think it's all the You didn't think that
was hard. Like there's a lot of strappage, a lot
of like complicated lace.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah, I think the internationals bought it hard because this
is like a fun thing for us, right, we never
get this at home, Like we get field Day and
we all just wear like our jeans and our jumper,
so we get Coachella. I was like, I met Gala,
like exactly what you said. But then we have like
the Kylie Jennis and the Hailey Bebers.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Did you see them?
Speaker 2 (29:00):
They were just wearing a shirt and jean.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
No, this is the thing. The coolest people there are
so many layers and.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
They didn't tell poor Judd, do you wear a shirt
and jeane.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
It's like the people who aren't cool at all, like us,
We're never going to coach Ola.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Then there's a lot where it is it's too hot.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
Then there's another layer of coool where they're going and
they're dressing kind of badly. That would be me if
I went, I'd get it wrong, I'd miss the vibe,
which just totally miss the vibe.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Would like too much effort or not enough but.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
No, just like not appropriate, like jeans and a jumper.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
You go and wear.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Jeans and twelve clubbinghere were all blazers.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Yeah, that would be me.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
That would be me.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
Then the next level of cool is the Beck Judds
who are like they look so.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Hot, stylists pool the whole weekend.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
And like they are studying. Have you seen the belly chains.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
The belly chains are in now it's a necklace like
a belly chain, am Like, do I need a belly chain?
I don't think I need a belly chain. But then
the top tier level of cool is out of it's
I'm wearing whatever the hell I'm wearing because I'm Kylie freakin' Jenna.
Look at my My face is the feature here.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
You know what I mean? Like I don't even need
to try.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
And so looking at this year and seeing all the
influences in all their outfits and all their mansions, I
do feel quite removed from Coachella.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
I do think this year, this year in particular, I'm like, mmm,
I'm never.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Going, am I It's a fine like, actually you might
get invited for spon con one day, Claire, you might.
Actually you can shoot high aim for that. The thing is,
this is a fine line, right because when I look
at Glastonbury and many many of my friends go to
Glastonbury religiously, and that looks like a lot of hard work.
I have never been full disclosure, I'm probably not going
to go. Well, really fancy people don't. And also you
can there are levels of camping, but to have the
(30:49):
full experience, yes, mud tense who can forget boots? Like
that's the vibe right, and it does look like hard work.
But then if you're going and you've got a stylist
with all your outfits, you've got glam from four am
and just staying in a mansion off site, that's not
really going to a music festival at all.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
No, no, no am.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
I go on a brunch and I do you think.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
You watch all the videos and you're like, these people
are working the amount of content that is it would
be my nightmare.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
I don't think you could pay me enough.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
You couldn't get drunk.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
You couldn't you couldn't get drunk, you couldn't like just
do fun stay because you've got to be up and
getting ready. And then it's like we have to film
seventy two reels before we freaking leave the house. And
everybody has to learn the lyrics to this song you've
never heard and learn the dance.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
It's hard to work for them than it is for Gaga.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
I know.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
After the break, I'm going to be asking Hole and
Claire to verify a piece of terrifying information I've come across.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
One unlimited out Loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
and Thursday, exclusively for Mamma MIA subscribers follow the link
at the show notes to get us in your ears
five days a week. And a huge thank you to
all our current subscribers.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
So recently, I read something horrific that I personally couldn't
comment on, but I knew the two of you could.
It was a statistic from a marriage counseling website, and
the website was called Couples on the Brain.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Okay, I'm offended that you think we can relate to that.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Continue, and it was the statistic.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
It read, if a married couple with children has fifteen
minutes of uninterrupted, non logistical, non problem solving talk every day,
I would put them in the top five percent of
all married couples. It's an extraordinary achievement.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Clarenholm, Well, firstly, I'd like to say, Holly can't way
in because she lives, she's not married, married, she's not
she doesn't understand it.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
We're gonna have to expand to the parameters of this
longship relationship with children with children.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Are both of you okay?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
No, because when I read this, I was like, yeah, absolutely,
that is what I'm trying to fix right in my relation.
I don't mean in my relationship necessarily like we've got
a problem. But that is an absolute reality, and it's
what everybody talks about, and it's what they want to
avoid while also doing it one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
So it doesn't shock you unfixable problem that you just
have ongoing.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
I don't think it's an.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Unfixable problem, but the reality of it is if you
have children, and this I'd love to hear Claire on this,
because she's in a long term relationship that for a
lotti years didn't have children and now does. They've got Matilda,
and so your logistic level has gone from who's making
dinner tonight or who's ordering in to like much more
complicated and the logistics is enormous. It reminded me of
(33:44):
an interview I did with Rachel Griffiths, the actress for
mid and she said that after her kids had grown
up now and they were just about to leave home
or whatever, and her and her husband went on holiday
and she said, if we're not going to be those
people who get divorced when the kids leave home, we
need to have a rule for this holiday. And she
said the rule is you can't say would you did
you have you?
Speaker 4 (34:05):
So?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Could you just do this?
Speaker 1 (34:07):
For me, would you go and pick the kids up
from blah blah? Did you get that thing done? Have
you remembered too? And this is it was a light
bulb for me because I thought so much of the
comments I have with my partner is exactly that. Did
you remember to tell that person they've got to pick
Billy up on that day because we're not going to
be there? Could you just go and get some milk?
(34:28):
Have you taken the bin out? Did you? But like
that level of logistics, did you call the dogs in
about the thing? Is just like the relentless conversation and
if you actually have a conversation about something else, like
something we're bringing talking about today, you feel like you've
won the relationship Olympics.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
And a young person said to me last week of
a young person maybe oh like twenty five, what wasn't me?
It wasn't you, but it was a similarly young person
was like, I don't really see the difference between like
a partner and a best friend. What's actually the difference?
And I was like, oh my god, let me explain.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Because you have sex with your partners, well obviously that
you think that's the difference. I was about to tell
you what.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
And I'm like, do you an that that's a separate conversation.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
But the difference is with the best friend, you are
talking about all the fun stuff. So I put it
that like say, Jesse, my sister's my best friend and
Rory's my partner. Jesse just talk shit with like gossip,
talk about fun stuff whatever. With Ror, it now gets
to the stage when you have a child that it's
(35:36):
like you are building a life together. It's like being
colleagues and you're in a workplace and the workplace is
your home and everything needs to get done and sordid,
and there are like departments. It's like you have your
finance department, and you have your pet department, and you
have your Boddy who pays the rent department. And it
is actually building a life and striving for a future together.
(35:58):
And it kind of stops being and maybe momentarily stops
being that kind.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Of social relationship.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
But I do have to say, your boss is a toddler.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Yeah, your boss.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
But you feel really nice when your boss like favors you. Yeah,
at the moment, she loves me. But we recently moved
and Matilda was who knows somewhere with my mum, I
swear she was being accounted for. But Rory and I
we had all these annoying things to do. We had
like all the moving boxes and we were trying to
(36:33):
sort them. And we had like an hour where we
were just doing things together at home, but we didn't
have to talk about what we were doing. We were
just like throwing things in the rubbish and we talked.
You had a conversation and I was like, this is wild.
I quite like you. You're a funny guy. Like it
was weird because it was one of the only times
in the last few months especially have been insane. But
(36:58):
you realize that you don't get to chat like your
friends anymore.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
I want to know em because you are on the
record on this podcast quite a few times as saying
you would like a partner, you would like the picket
fence and the baby and all that stuff. Are we
doing a better job of convincing you that you don't
We sound like Chapel Roone.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
It's annoying.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
We sound like Chapel Roone going there. And note it's
not true, because there's lots of goodness in here. But
does that fact the idea that everything is logistics horrify
You're not.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
What annoys me about you guys is that every time
I come on here, you're all like, you don't want
a relationship, you don't want this, don't do this, I
do that, And then you're all in relationships and I'm like,
but what do you mean? Like it doesn't make any
sense in my head. But I thought, after reading the
STAD and hearing your sad sad stories, I could give
you some advice on what to talk.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
I need conversation started.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
So it's a fun one for both of you. This
is like a relationship once. I haven't actually tried this myself,
but you ask them who is the one person in
my family that you hate that you've been scared to
tell me? Oh my god, that is and then you
get to pick.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
One in their families, either conversation starter or a fight starter.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
A conversation because it's like.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
All liked I have to say in that like very
small part of the day, Like say, we don't get
our fifteen minutes of uninterrupted talk.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
We only get six that is what we talk.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
I also have another one that I bring up on
my first date, So I think will really help you
guys out okay, so it's more like a storytelling one.
So you're at dinner with them. Do you have dinner
with your partners sometimes totally? Ok yeah, okay, so you
go to them. Okay, so pretend you're single. I guess
you guys have to pretend your single for the situation.
And say you meet your celebrity crush in a bar
(38:40):
and you hit it off. They're really into you, like,
they're really really into you. You're talking about your life,
they're talking about their life. You're hitting it off. But
then you find out that they're your long lost cousin.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Oh okay, but right.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
They kind of give you an eye. No one else
will find out. Oh, no one else will know to
sleep with them.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
That is a great question. Yes, that is really important
the answer that's not the point.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
And they're meant to say it, and then you're meant
to dive in, and then you're like, well, now we both.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Have that therapy. Good eyesbreaker, because I think the thing
this is one of the things that genuinely are challenging
long term relationships, is you've had all your conversations, right, Like,
I don't mean to be down about this. There are
so many wonderful things about that level of knowing someone
so well. But that's why you see the stereotype of
the people who've been together a long time and sit
in a restaurant not talking, or people whose kids leave
home and they split up, or they retire and they
(39:35):
split up because they're suddenly like, shit, it's just us,
and you have to actually work hard at going out
into the world and getting pebbles to bring back to
show off and be like, look at my shiny pebble.
Let's talk about that. It's why women on maternity leave
often feel really isolated because they're not going out to
get pebbles for the family anymore. You've actually got to
interact with the world to have things to talk about.
(39:55):
And one of the things about long term coupledom is
it can stop you from interacting with the world so much,
so you are probably never going to be as interesting
as you are right now. Oh God, I'm just always
trying to just try anna lift you up here. Let
you see the sunshine, sat down there. This dating apps again,
(40:17):
that's all we've got time for out loud is on
our Monday show. A massive thank you to all of
you for listening, but of course to em and Claire
for filling in for Mea and Jesse today, and to
our fabulous team for putting it all together. We're going
to be back in your ears tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Bye.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
See her.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Shout out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If you
love the show and you want to support us, subscribing
to Mamma Mia is the very best way to do it.
There's a link in the episode description.
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
If you've had your phone in your hand at all
this weekend, then you all know that Coachella was on.
There's activations everywhere, which is the term for like over here,
here's the vodkas stand over here, here's a life insurance stand.
I guarantee yourself against whatever terrible life mistakes you're about
to make this weekend.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I love how these are the activations you exactly me the.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Vodcast and then let me ensure myself. Hello and welcome
to Mama Mia out loud. It's what women are actually
talking about. Monday, the fourteenth of April. My name is
Holly Waynwright and today I am joined by two very
exciting guests. Would you like to introduce yourselves? Friends?
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Hello, I am m Vernham. I host our daily entertainment
podcast A Spill, and I'm sitting in for me today.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
We have missed you and vern and welcome back.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I missed your voice on the show.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
I sound like Jesse Stephens, but I am Claire Stephens
because Jesse's away clawed my way back in nobody. Nobody
invited me. I just banged on the door.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Og out loud as no that you are no stranger.
No to these microphones. You actually filled in for Jesse
Stevens when she was on Mattley. I did, I did stretch. Yes,
you missed us.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
I really have guys, and I listen to every episode
and I yell Friday's episode, Friday's episode about diagnosis.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Oh, there was some yelling, mostly Jesse. Anyway, I likes yell.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, don't yell at me anyway. You can yell on
Mike Today on the show, an aging gen X bad
boy and a queer twenty one year old multimillionairess have
been locked in a house together and filmed for our entertainment?
What could possibly have gone wrong? Also, Elon Musk is
crawling office messages for signs of disloyalty. What would your
(02:07):
boss find if they did the same, And what did
the top five percent of relationships have in common? And
why is it horrifying to our Emily Vernon? But first,
in case he missed it. Amy Leu Woods, who we
know as Chelsea from season three of The White Lotus.
She posted an Instagram story last night that said she
(02:29):
found an SNL skit about her character mean and annoying.
So the skit on.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
SNL was called the White Potus and it was replacing
the White LOADUS season three characters with US political figures.
The only character that remained the same was Chelsea, played
by comedian Sarah Sherman. So Amy Lous Woods said that
the SNL skit was punching up on everyone else's portrayed
in the skit besides Chelsea, where they leaned into taking
(02:54):
digs at her teeth. These insane ideas like what if
we took all the flouride out of the drinking water
to people's teeth?
Speaker 3 (03:03):
All right?
Speaker 4 (03:04):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Look?
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Oki killed an e No, not the bulky.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
After this, there was so much backlash from her fans,
and SNL apologized to her. However, her co star Walton Goggins,
who played Rick in The White Lotus, commented on the
SNL video saying, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha amazing people call them out, saying your
coasty literally said this was really mean, and then he
(03:37):
doubled down and posted the whole schedule on his Instagram story.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Can we put a pin in? Walton for a second,
because I know you've got some scrollers gossip we do,
we do. I obviously I love Amy Lou and I
was offended on her behalf, not only about the teeth
but also the terrible mancunion accent that that actress tried
to do. It was actually embarrassing for everybody. But I
agree with her and if she was offended, of course
I totally get that. But isn't that what SNL does. Like,
(04:03):
isn't the whole point of it? As you dress up
to look like people and you exaggerate their features so
people know who you are.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
I saw like, I saw the image, the still image,
and I saw Amy Lou Wood's response to it, and
then I went and watched the whole skit in full.
And I usually don't find SNL very funny. I find
it a bit creamy. It's like a very kind of
big humor that I don't really reckon. Yes, but there
were things about that skit. The bit about the teeth
(04:32):
was like funny on a few different levels because it
actually was that character. It wasn't a political character like
all the other moments throughout the show. And I think
a show like SNL, when you know kind of the
match nations of how it works.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
They're gonna get it wrong.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Like they are delivering so much content, they are making
so many jokes. Sometimes they're gonna miss the mark, and
I think they kind of have to be allowed to.
I think that's how humor works.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
It is interesting though that, as you've both said, like
everybody else in there was a powerful person and the
gag was about she was with the Wilt Goggins character
Bes played by John Hammond. He makes gag about floor ride.
He makes a joke because he's playing RFK. Let's take
the floor right out of the water. And then we
go to Amy Lou and inverted Comma's teeth. It was
a cheap shot. But back to Walton, I just you know,
(05:23):
I don't know where to start with that. But back
to him, why was it so shocking that he liked
that post. Okay might think you have some gossip for us.
I do have some gossip. I talked about this on
the spill and I whispered it. So no, I couldn't
get in trouble because it is gossip. B But there
are some solid rumors going around that's something romantic happened
between Walton and Amy on the set of The White Loaders,
(05:45):
which I feel like happens every single season.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Because what happened was they were following each other and
he was posting and tagging her, and then all of
a sudden, he was tagging everybody else from the cast
except her. So then these rumors came out, and they
just seem like, do I know their rumors?
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yes? Is it gossip? Yes?
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Do I absolutely believe it? And so when he shared that,
it seemed a bit snarky and a bit like a pope.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
But also I don't want to be stereotypical, but he's
older and he probably doesn't get you know how sometimes
older people don't get that if you press like it
means I endorse all the contents of this video. And
it was probably before she'd come out and said because
if she hadn't have said anything, because so she posted
to her story saying, I thought it wasn't nuanced and
it hurt my feelings and I'm insecure about my teeth
(06:34):
because people are always bloody talking about them. Maybe he
hadn't seen that yet. I want to defend Amy Lou
because this is scoreless gossip and it drags her into it.
Appearing to have an affair with a married man. Maybe
she did, maybe she didn't. She's not attached, but like,
let's not take it as red that she did that.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Well, he definitely didn't see her posting it because he
blocked her, So he couldn't. He couldn't have said he or.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Either of them have blocked it. Like we don't know
that he blocked her.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
I'm pretty sure he blocked her because I went into
a bit of a deep lit because they were like
really gushy about each other during the first half of
the press for The White Lotus and then suddenly all
of her comments on his post disappeared, but like his
comments on her posts were still there, So I think
he had a bit of a freak out and like
he now he's just like overly gushy about his wife.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
Oh okay, okay. And Jason Isaacs also had a little
bit of a comment on a red carpet that made
it sound like some stuff went down.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
He's just a bit messy. My friend, he lock a
load of actors in a resort for seven months and
searing heat. Shit's gonna happen, and they're all really good looking.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Yeah, they're gonna hook up with each other. I think
I would have hooked up with Patrick's sportsmaker.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
I have a weird.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Soft spot, definitely Patrick.
Speaker 4 (07:52):
Over the weekend, you may have seen several headlines about
a series of comments made by Mickey Rourke towards Jojo
Seawat on Celebrity Big Brother UK. Now, depending on your age,
you might not know a what a Mickey Rourke is, well.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
B what a Jojo Seaway exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So first let me explain it a very specific set
of celebrities.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
You either know one or the other you cannot know.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Well, actually I do know both of both, but that's
because I lived through Mickey Rourke's hot years and I
had a daughter at the exact same time that the
Jojo bows went nuts. You're like a union, so I
am like, I'm in a particular like crossover subset. But
you're absolutely right, clust even.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I love Jojo.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
I know everything about Jojo. I do not like Micky,
never seen him for him mile, But Mickey Rawle.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
He used to be a thing, but not for a
long time.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
He's a seventy two year old American actor and former
professional boxer, and in the planning meeting this morning.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Holly you said he used to be hot, so I
googled him. You can confirm.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
He starred in The Wrestler alongside Evan Rachel would and
he won a Golden Globe for it.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
So he's like, he's an actor actor.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
He used to be like way back in the eighties
and things. He was like one of those, like a
Johnny Deppy kind of one of those real he's going
to be a massive deal, and then he went off
the rails and he wasn't a massive deal, and then
The Wrestler was a comeback, but then he went off
the rails gain.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Kind of like Celestera Saloone. That's what I feel like
he should have been.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah, but in the first instance, he was a bit
more serious and cool. Anyway, let's just say it's been
a while since his heyday.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Yeah, well, I think maybe his appearance on Celebrity Big
Brother shows why. Jojo Siwah is a twenty one year
old singer and dancer who appeared on Dance Mums as
a child and then went on to establish a film,
television and music creer. One of the last times I
was on this show, she had just released Karma and
was proclaiming herself to have started a new genre of
(09:39):
music called gay pop.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
It was a wonderful dime.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
But they're both on Celebrity Big Brother UK which just started,
and in one of the first episodes of the series,
here's what happened.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Like girls, boys me girls.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I know, I can tell my partner is non binary. Hey,
if you won't be gay anymore, I can guarantee I
will still be gay and I was still be in
a very happy relationship. I'll tie you up, don't prise
do that won't happen. I dare you to try.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
You'll be the one tied up.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I'm going to vote the lesbian out real quick.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
That's so, that's on a war be if that was the.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Lesbian, I'm going to vote.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Can't say that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Jojo lovely lovely girl. Yeah, I'll talk at deal.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
You can't say that, Mickey.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
One breath at a time, Droop's one breath at a time,
I know.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
But he was talking about a cigarette.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I know you, I know.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Yeah. He was called to the diary room afterwards and
given a warning, to which he said, I apologize.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
I'm just talking smack.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
You know, I wasn't taking it all so serious to
see what afterwards He apologized for having a short fuse,
which didn't actually make sense given what he said, but
he was told he would be removed from The Big
brother House if he exhibited further language or behavior of
this nature, which spoiler alert he did and he has.
As of Saturday, he agreed to leave the show following
(11:06):
another incident entirely unrelated to the with Jojo, but the
fallout of his comments towards Jojo was Mammoth. Her partner
Kath Ebbs post about the exchange. Kath referred to it
having so many layers to it, and Ebbs pointed out
that referring to turning Jojo straight and tying her up
(11:28):
were both really violent jokes and actually more serious than
the hope of phobia. Do we think the reaction to
this is evidence of progress? The fact that it was
just like Mickey, no, Mickey stop, you can't say that.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Absolutely. I think it's really interesting because you know how
I just before I was kind of half heartedly defending
Walton Goggins, trolling Amy lou by saying, oh, he's old,
he doesn't really get it. That's exactly what Mickey Rourke's
rep tried to do, right. She tried to play the
whole culture wars card, she said, because he's seventy two, obviously,
and she said, he speaks from his heart and he means, well,
(12:05):
he's not creeppy, he's not pervy, he's not trying to
offend gay people. Just doesn't realize that now every word
you say can and will be used against you, and
that's just the way this world works now. Bullshit, he used.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
A homophobicsler, knowing what he was saying because he was
trying to do a play on work.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
One hundred percent he did. And also he is exactly
the guy who would have no respect for a twenty
one year old queer performer who has millions and millions
of dollars more than he does these days, Like he
would have no respect for that. The only thing about
this is that all the outrage this is just stunt casting.
(12:44):
Like why do you put Mickey Rourke in the celebrity
Big Brother House?
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Right?
Speaker 1 (12:47):
You pay him half a million pounds, which is nearly
a million dollars Australian dollars, and you know that he
isn't going to be able to cope with any of
the people in there and be anything like, I don't know,
civil to anybody, but that's going to bring the drama
in the excitement. So you wind him up, you watch
him go, and he probably knew he just had to
get through a few days to cash his check.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
He made a joke about only staying there for four
days exactly, and I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
If you got through that, but I agree.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
I think he was in no way fit to be
in that context, like he was always gonna say something
like that. I think Jojo handled it so well. She
was just like, that's homophobic, and everybody around her just
called him out. There was no laughing and it wasn't
aggressive either. They called him out in quite a polite, gentle,
(13:33):
but firm way.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I also think that him being in Big Brother was
actually for him a very safe environment to make those comments,
like nothing could happen to him, nothing could touch him.
And similar to JoJo's response, I feel like in any
other situation, like if maybe her partner was there and
that comment was directed at someone else, she probably could
have gone off at him. And I think it's always
(13:56):
comes down to like how you handle that certain situation,
because I think all the time of when I've been
in and this is like the one environment that I
feel I always just stay calm, and it's in an
Uber and I've had a few times where Uber drivers
have just said things completely out of pocket to me.
I had one Uber driver saying, make sure you marry
within your race, like no one wants to see you
(14:17):
marrying anyone else, like crazy stuff, and I end up
agreeing with them because I am so scared, because like
I'm not only like trapped in this car with this person,
but I'm so scared that, like my life is pretty
much in their hands in this car, all the power
is with all the powers with them, And it's really
annoying that like when these things happen, when you see
such gross behavior, it always is like in the lens
(14:40):
of like this person is in such a safe environment
to say that, and it's so unfair.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
It's interesting though, because as I just said, it's stunt casting,
but it kind of feels to me like stunt casting's
natural conclusion because they wanted him to bring the drama.
But actually, as you know very well, and that behavior
is just boring, you know what I mean, It's boring
and tired and offensive. And to your point, Claire, about
the fact that the people around him, weren't They were
(15:04):
just going, Oh, you know, you can't say that it
wasn't exciting drama. What's surprising or interesting about a seventy
two year old has been who clearly used to behave
He's you know, put up on charges before of spousal battery,
he's publicly wrestled with addiction and with his own mental
health issues, but also a lot of violence. You say
(15:25):
that he's in a safe environment, and he is, but
he's a dangerous man to put in that situation in
lots of ways, right, because he isn't going to like
having his ego challenged by young people, especially not young females.
And so in a way, it's kind of oh, you know,
we all know what it feels like when you have
to watch some boring old dude bumble about telling everybody
(15:46):
that he can't say anything anymore because the world's gone mad?
Like is that good tv?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
It is boring, But at the same time, like Big
Brother only needed that to happen, for them to have
all their rating, example, for everyone in the world to
talk about it like it's an international show and we're
talking about it, and I think no matter like the
scale of how boring or not boring, it is, it's
still something that never gets said out loud, and that's
literally all they needed for raiding.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
And do you think in a way that's kind of
good because it exposes the taxi driver guys, the Mickey
Rourke's of the world, that there still are guys who
just walk around the world feeling entitled enough to say
shit to young women. Well, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
I feel like if I wasn't on this podcast, like
that taxi driver story like would never be heard. So
I think it's still one of those situations where unless
like people actually have the environment where they can bring
up these stories in a safe way. Like I still
think these guys are just gonna just keep doing what
they're doing, Like that taxi driver has no idea I'm
talking about him, and you'll keep talking like that to
(16:42):
young women in this car.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I do reckon.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
As much as I feel for Jojo, I feel for
JoJo's family, I feel for JoJo's partner because it was
really hurtful.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, Jojo was really upset. She was crying on the
show at the time, Like she was doing a good job,
as you said before, Claire of like remaining calm and
just being, you know, very cool about it. She absolutely
was pitch perfect in her response, but she was clearly
really shaken and up.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Yeah, but as somebody m I've also been in scenarios
where a man and you can never tell, like I
didn't know about those charges against him.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
I didn't know he was a violent man.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Big.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yeah, they I'm sure they did.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
And I have been in situations where a man says
things that in my head, I'm going that's homophobic, that's sexist,
that's racist, and you don't know how to.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Say it out loud.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
You don't kind of have a blueprint of how to
challenge it. And what I liked about this was that
I think they challenged it. It was a really nice
example to see how you challenge it really firmly, but
not in the way that.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
People would expect.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
So even his publicists coming out and having that whole statement,
and it's like it actually wasn't a gen Z person
being dramatic and being over sensitive.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
It actually wasn't.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
If anything, he looked over sensitive, and he looked like
he was just totally totally out of touch. Everybody else
was incredibly calm, and if anything, I think it gives
me a bit of an example for the next time
somebody says something that you just quite flatly say that's
homophobic and it just fits and you don't have to
take it back and you don't have to laugh.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
In a moment, our friend who's not really our friend,
Elon Musk, is crawling White House office comms for signs
of disloyalty. What would your boss find? Be careful what
you say, what you type, and what you do. That
was a US government department's advice to its employees after
the news that Elon Musks doge. That's the Department of
(18:43):
Government Efficiency is using its own special AI tools to
crawl civil servants emails, Google chats and even Facebook and
ex posts. Now it actually looks like at the minute,
Musk is on his way out of Trump World, which
is probably good news for everybody, because he's feuding with
one of the guys who's the big architects of the
Tariff mayhem. He's a guy called Pete Navarro, and they've
(19:05):
been scrapping on social media and saying loads of bad
shit to each other, so much so that the press
secret at the whire House has had to say, oh well,
boys will be boys, which is not a sentence you
expect to hear in a parliamentary press conference. But anyway,
I digress. If the Trump Musk love affair is over,
it isn't before he's put the yips in any worker
who has ever bitched about their boss at work, and
(19:26):
by that we mean everyone Musk's AI police are looking
for exactly that bitching. We have been told, says a
source at the Environmental Protection Agency, that they're looking for
anti Trump or anti Musk language. It seems to me
that they should have better things to do. But there
are now reports that one head of a government agency
was even hooked up to a lie detective for an interview.
(19:48):
And people who work in these offices are turning their
work phones off because they're worried that they're being tracked
if they leave the offices with them. They're replacing emails
with face to face meetings and avoiding putting anything in writing. Claire,
does this sound like efficiency to you? And does the
idea of a boss reading all your comms freak you out?
Speaker 3 (20:06):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (20:06):
And see, I always thought whenever anybody was panicking about
like your emails or what's public or what people can
read about you. I was always like, but it's fine
because I'm so boring and I'm such a small cog
in the machine of the world that nobody is ever
going to care what I've said about anything.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
But now with AI, it's like, oh.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
No, it doesn't take much work for people to find
a certain name or a keyword in your communications. It's
not that somebody is manually trawling through. It's that they're
doing it in a really quick, instantaneous way and finding
stuff that could be completely out of context.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
And robots don't get bored, No, they don't.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
And at first when I saw this, part of my
instinct was like, oh well, And then when I actually
did more and more reading, I realized how scary this
is in the context of Elon Musk and Bloody Doge.
The problem is that if they're looking only for loyalists,
if they're looking only for people who are going to
(21:07):
be loyal to Trump, say, the problem with Trump is
that he breaks the rules, and he will be looking
for people who are going to turn a blind eye
to corruption and to breaking the law and to questioning
elections Like this is actually really scary, And I didn't
(21:27):
realize that Doge has operated in secrecy since its formation.
It's got around all the kind of usual stop gaps
and all the usual security laws.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Because it's a made up thing exactly, so it doesn't
have to abide by any guardrails because there aren't any
because it's not a real thing.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
So the people saying I'm turning my phone off because
I'm scared of being traced or listened to or whatever,
they're not being paranoid because we have absolutely no way
of knowing what they're actually doing. They're kind of bypassing
all the government systems. And I kept saying this thing
about Google Docs, that they're working in Google Docs, and
(22:08):
I was like, yeah, everyone works in Google Doc. We
do for this podcast. But the difference is with government
decisions and things this heavy, you need like a paper trail,
and they're removing the paper trail and it's all just
happening in a Google Doc where you can't kind of
see what they've put in, or where the changes have
come from, or what people's input is.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
It's really really scary.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
And then the last thing is that people are saying
that Musk, because again this is not a real thing.
He might be using his AI bot in government systems
to harvest data that can then be used to give
his companies a commercial advantage.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
It's really scary.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
And often people are surprised to find out that the
things they say at work aren't really private. Are you
mortified at the idea of people reading what you're saying
at work?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I wouldn't say mortified. I would say I'm more angry
because I feel like talking shit on office comms should
be something that everyone's allowed to do. It should be
a human right because it has nothing to do with
the workplace. It's about your lifestyle, and it actually filters
into your personal life because this is how friends are made.
So talking shit on office comms is actually the gateway
(23:20):
to make a coworker into a friend. You can't straight
away like text a coworker or email a coworker privately
talking shit about the work because that's too much. You
sound so serious, you sound like you're obsessed with your
job too much. It needs to be like a slow
transition where you're like, on slack, that was weird, Like
when she said that to me, I was weird. And
(23:40):
then that person agrees and you're like, Okay, we're on
our way to make sign it's a sign. So you
need that gateway and then once your friends, then you
move it to private. But give us our gateway.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
I agree.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
That is so true because you don't have the person's
number to text them the bitch, and you can only
do it over work comms.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
And that is so true.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
The way people bond is over like the dynamics of workplace,
I e. Severance, the only way anyone got along was like,
actually this place.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
This is true, but in the absence of me, I
have to put my boss pants on. I'm not really
a boss anymore, but I was for a lot of years.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
You're both my bosses.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, we have both been your boss at different points
in this Luckily, I'm about to go into a word
set like said about hollyway right, But anyway, the thing
is with my boss pants on. Why am I paying
you to waste your time bitching about me?
Speaker 3 (24:35):
I have a point.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
I have a point, and I have it for Elon
as well. People's views change, So if you're doing a
search and you're seeing the time I bitched about Holly,
I might not feel that way anymore.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I just felt like that in a moment.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
So I present them to you. And I said, do
you stand by this st.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
I say no? Or do I You'll never know, but
it might have evolved.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Apparently a lot of corporate places now have this kind
of not as hardcore as Elon's in that way, but
because there's so much into office messaging now with slack
and teams and all those things, and there is so
much time wasting that can be done on them, let's
be honest that a lot of places are bringing in
these corporate rules that say we are allowed to access
your messages at any time. We heard a story in
(25:21):
our meeting today when we were talking about incidences of this.
We'd heard of where four people were dragged into their
bosses office at a big corporate company and confronted with
the words that they'd said on the interoffice messaging that
may or may not have involved calling their boss. A
said these quiet shocking things about their boss. And imagine
(25:43):
sitting in a HR meeting and having that shown to
you it had been highlighted in yellow pen. Is that okay? Yet? Really?
Speaker 2 (25:49):
I think the printing out, let's not waste paper over here.
I think that's a bit too.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
That bloody Elon is all about, you know, wasting time
and resources, and I would say the meeting is a
waste of time. The highlight is a waste of time,
the line detector is a waste of time. Elon, You're
not being very efficient. Feedback is a gift from both
the perspective of the giver as well as the recipient.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
If you've had your phone in your hand at all
this weekend, then you all know that Coachella was on.
That big music festival in the California desert that seems
to go on forever, but actually it's two whole weekends, right,
Every single famous person in the universe goes to Coachella,
don't they. It's like in the diary Apparently this weekend
Lady Gaga was career defining amazing.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Oh did you see the videos?
Speaker 1 (26:38):
I did? She is I just can't bow down.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
She's coming to Australia, is she?
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Yeah, She's coming to Australia. That made me more excited
to watch the video.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Patrick Schwarzenegger was dancing to his White Loaders Coastars, Lisa
Sett looking exactly like Saxon on a bender and all
of that's ace. But I have some feedback for Coachella,
specifically about the fashion. It's long been known as the
influencer Olympics. Right, Lots of brands from all over the
world fly their faces over there to make a lot
(27:09):
of content. And over that weekend there's activations everywhere, which
is the term for like over here, here's the vodka
stand over here, here's a life insurance Stan I guaranteeing
yourself against whatever terrible life mistakes you're about to make
this weekend.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
I love how these are the activations.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
You give me the vodka and then let me ensure myself.
Being seemed to be there is every bit is important
as being there. But there is no clearer illustration of
the difference between Britain and America than the difference between
Glastonbury and Coachella. Right, case in point, Beck Jodd. Now
I'm not dissing Beck Jodd, Right, I know Beg Judd
(27:42):
a little bit. I've worked with her before. She's lovely,
she's ace, but she goes to Coachella like it is
the met Garla. She get hard every year and what
particularly sort of it didn't make me puffer fish. I
wasn't angry. I was just like, whoa is this year's
theme dressing? So on the second night, she and all
her girl pals had to wear white, and there are
(28:02):
these pictures of them in these immaculate white outfits that
seem impractical when you are in a desert, no offense,
you gonna get dirt. Yep, everything's mature. We've had glam
squads since four am, which is the time you should
be going to bed at a music festival, not getting
up for the lipstick. And I'm just like, is this
the most hard work music festival of all time?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I feel like it's changed. So I saw beg Jud's
photos and I firstly thought it was a bachelorette party,
because isn't that what you dress on theme for? Only
then I know where you dress on theme. But I
thought like, it didn't actually bring it that hard this
year Coachella dressing.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
And I think it's all the You didn't think that
was hard. Like there's a lot of strappage, a lot
of like complicated lace.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah, I think the internationals bought it hard because this
is like a fun thing for us, right, we never
get this at home, Like we get field Day and
we all just wear like our jeans and our jumper,
so we get Coachella. I was like, I met Gala,
like exactly what you said. But then we have like
the Kylie Jennis and the Hailey Bebers.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Did you see them?
Speaker 2 (29:00):
They were just wearing a shirt and jean.
Speaker 4 (29:02):
No, this is the thing. The coolest people there are
so many layers and.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
They didn't tell poor Judd, do you wear a shirt
and jeane.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
It's like the people who aren't cool at all, like us,
We're never going to coach Ola.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Then there's a lot where it is it's too hot.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
Then there's another layer of coool where they're going and
they're dressing kind of badly. That would be me if
I went, I'd get it wrong, I'd miss the vibe,
which just totally miss the vibe.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Would like too much effort or not enough but.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
No, just like not appropriate, like jeans and a jumper.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
You go and wear.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Jeans and twelve clubbinghere were all blazers.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Yeah, that would be me.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
That would be me.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
Then the next level of cool is the Beck Judds
who are like they look so.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Hot, stylists pool the whole weekend.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
And like they are studying. Have you seen the belly chains.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
The belly chains are in now it's a necklace like
a belly chain, am Like, do I need a belly chain?
I don't think I need a belly chain. But then
the top tier level of cool is out of it's
I'm wearing whatever the hell I'm wearing because I'm Kylie freakin' Jenna.
Look at my My face is the feature here.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
You know what I mean? Like I don't even need
to try.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
And so looking at this year and seeing all the
influences in all their outfits and all their mansions, I
do feel quite removed from Coachella.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
I do think this year, this year in particular, I'm like, mmm,
I'm never.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Going, am I It's a fine like, actually you might
get invited for spon con one day, Claire, you might.
Actually you can shoot high aim for that. The thing is,
this is a fine line, right because when I look
at Glastonbury and many many of my friends go to
Glastonbury religiously, and that looks like a lot of hard work.
I have never been full disclosure, I'm probably not going
to go. Well, really fancy people don't. And also you
can there are levels of camping, but to have the
(30:49):
full experience, yes, mud tense who can forget boots? Like
that's the vibe right, and it does look like hard work.
But then if you're going and you've got a stylist
with all your outfits, you've got glam from four am
and just staying in a mansion off site, that's not
really going to a music festival at all.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
No, no, no am.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
I go on a brunch and I do you think.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
You watch all the videos and you're like, these people
are working the amount of content that is it would
be my nightmare.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
I don't think you could pay me enough.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
You couldn't get drunk.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
You couldn't you couldn't get drunk, you couldn't like just
do fun stay because you've got to be up and
getting ready. And then it's like we have to film
seventy two reels before we freaking leave the house. And
everybody has to learn the lyrics to this song you've
never heard and learn the dance.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
It's hard to work for them than it is for Gaga.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
I know.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
After the break, I'm going to be asking Hole and
Claire to verify a piece of terrifying information I've come across.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
One unlimited out Loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday
and Thursday, exclusively for Mamma MIA subscribers follow the link
at the show notes to get us in your ears
five days a week. And a huge thank you to
all our current subscribers.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
So recently, I read something horrific that I personally couldn't
comment on, but I knew the two of you could.
It was a statistic from a marriage counseling website, and
the website was called Couples on the Brain.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Okay, I'm offended that you think we can relate to that.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
Continue, and it was the statistic.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
It read, if a married couple with children has fifteen
minutes of uninterrupted, non logistical, non problem solving talk every day,
I would put them in the top five percent of
all married couples. It's an extraordinary achievement.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Clarenholm, Well, firstly, I'd like to say, Holly can't way
in because she lives, she's not married, married, she's not
she doesn't understand it.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
We're gonna have to expand to the parameters of this
longship relationship with children with children.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Are both of you okay?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
No, because when I read this, I was like, yeah, absolutely,
that is what I'm trying to fix right in my relation.
I don't mean in my relationship necessarily like we've got
a problem. But that is an absolute reality, and it's
what everybody talks about, and it's what they want to
avoid while also doing it one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
So it doesn't shock you unfixable problem that you just
have ongoing.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
I don't think it's an.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Unfixable problem, but the reality of it is if you
have children, and this I'd love to hear Claire on this,
because she's in a long term relationship that for a
lotti years didn't have children and now does. They've got Matilda,
and so your logistic level has gone from who's making
dinner tonight or who's ordering in to like much more
complicated and the logistics is enormous. It reminded me of
(33:44):
an interview I did with Rachel Griffiths, the actress for
mid and she said that after her kids had grown
up now and they were just about to leave home
or whatever, and her and her husband went on holiday
and she said, if we're not going to be those
people who get divorced when the kids leave home, we
need to have a rule for this holiday. And she
said the rule is you can't say would you did
you have you?
Speaker 4 (34:05):
So?
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Could you just do this?
Speaker 1 (34:07):
For me, would you go and pick the kids up
from blah blah? Did you get that thing done? Have
you remembered too? And this is it was a light
bulb for me because I thought so much of the
comments I have with my partner is exactly that. Did
you remember to tell that person they've got to pick
Billy up on that day because we're not going to
be there? Could you just go and get some milk?
(34:28):
Have you taken the bin out? Did you? But like
that level of logistics, did you call the dogs in
about the thing? Is just like the relentless conversation and
if you actually have a conversation about something else, like
something we're bringing talking about today, you feel like you've
won the relationship Olympics.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
And a young person said to me last week of
a young person maybe oh like twenty five, what wasn't me?
It wasn't you, but it was a similarly young person
was like, I don't really see the difference between like
a partner and a best friend. What's actually the difference?
And I was like, oh my god, let me explain.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Because you have sex with your partners, well obviously that
you think that's the difference. I was about to tell
you what.
Speaker 3 (35:09):
And I'm like, do you an that that's a separate conversation.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
But the difference is with the best friend, you are
talking about all the fun stuff. So I put it
that like say, Jesse, my sister's my best friend and
Rory's my partner. Jesse just talk shit with like gossip,
talk about fun stuff whatever. With Ror, it now gets
to the stage when you have a child that it's
(35:36):
like you are building a life together. It's like being
colleagues and you're in a workplace and the workplace is
your home and everything needs to get done and sordid,
and there are like departments. It's like you have your
finance department, and you have your pet department, and you
have your Boddy who pays the rent department. And it
is actually building a life and striving for a future together.
(35:58):
And it kind of stops being and maybe momentarily stops
being that kind.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
Of social relationship.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
But I do have to say, your boss is a toddler.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Yeah, your boss.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
But you feel really nice when your boss like favors you. Yeah,
at the moment, she loves me. But we recently moved
and Matilda was who knows somewhere with my mum, I
swear she was being accounted for. But Rory and I
we had all these annoying things to do. We had
like all the moving boxes and we were trying to
(36:33):
sort them. And we had like an hour where we
were just doing things together at home, but we didn't
have to talk about what we were doing. We were
just like throwing things in the rubbish and we talked.
You had a conversation and I was like, this is wild.
I quite like you. You're a funny guy. Like it
was weird because it was one of the only times
in the last few months especially have been insane. But
(36:58):
you realize that you don't get to chat like your
friends anymore.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
I want to know em because you are on the
record on this podcast quite a few times as saying
you would like a partner, you would like the picket
fence and the baby and all that stuff. Are we
doing a better job of convincing you that you don't
We sound like Chapel Roone.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
It's annoying.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
We sound like Chapel Roone going there. And note it's
not true, because there's lots of goodness in here. But
does that fact the idea that everything is logistics horrify
You're not.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
What annoys me about you guys is that every time
I come on here, you're all like, you don't want
a relationship, you don't want this, don't do this, I
do that, And then you're all in relationships and I'm like,
but what do you mean? Like it doesn't make any
sense in my head. But I thought, after reading the
STAD and hearing your sad sad stories, I could give
you some advice on what to talk.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
I need conversation started.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
So it's a fun one for both of you. This
is like a relationship once. I haven't actually tried this myself,
but you ask them who is the one person in
my family that you hate that you've been scared to
tell me? Oh my god, that is and then you
get to pick.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
One in their families, either conversation starter or a fight starter.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
A conversation because it's like.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
All liked I have to say in that like very
small part of the day, Like say, we don't get
our fifteen minutes of uninterrupted talk.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
We only get six that is what we talk.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
I also have another one that I bring up on
my first date, So I think will really help you
guys out okay, so it's more like a storytelling one.
So you're at dinner with them. Do you have dinner
with your partners sometimes totally? Ok yeah, okay, so you
go to them. Okay, so pretend you're single. I guess
you guys have to pretend your single for the situation.
And say you meet your celebrity crush in a bar
(38:40):
and you hit it off. They're really into you, like,
they're really really into you. You're talking about your life,
they're talking about their life. You're hitting it off. But
then you find out that they're your long lost cousin.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Oh okay, but right.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
They kind of give you an eye. No one else
will find out. Oh, no one else will know to
sleep with them.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
That is a great question. Yes, that is really important
the answer that's not the point.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
And they're meant to say it, and then you're meant
to dive in, and then you're like, well, now we both.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Have that therapy. Good eyesbreaker, because I think the thing
this is one of the things that genuinely are challenging
long term relationships, is you've had all your conversations, right, Like,
I don't mean to be down about this. There are
so many wonderful things about that level of knowing someone
so well. But that's why you see the stereotype of
the people who've been together a long time and sit
in a restaurant not talking, or people whose kids leave
home and they split up, or they retire and they
(39:35):
split up because they're suddenly like, shit, it's just us,
and you have to actually work hard at going out
into the world and getting pebbles to bring back to
show off and be like, look at my shiny pebble.
Let's talk about that. It's why women on maternity leave
often feel really isolated because they're not going out to
get pebbles for the family anymore. You've actually got to
interact with the world to have things to talk about.
(39:55):
And one of the things about long term coupledom is
it can stop you from interacting with the world so much,
so you are probably never going to be as interesting
as you are right now. Oh God, I'm just always
trying to just try anna lift you up here. Let
you see the sunshine, sat down there. This dating apps again,
(40:17):
that's all we've got time for out loud is on
our Monday show. A massive thank you to all of
you for listening, but of course to em and Claire
for filling in for Mea and Jesse today, and to
our fabulous team for putting it all together. We're going
to be back in your ears tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Bye.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
See her.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Shout out to any Mamma Mia subscribers listening. If you
love the show and you want to support us, subscribing
to Mamma Mia is the very best way to do it.
There's a link in the episode description.
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