February 5, 2025 • 41 mins
Holly's hair is on fire after she fell into a rabbit hole regarding the new 'president' of the USA. And no, it's not Donald Trump. We put a spotlight on Elon Musk and try to answer the question the whole world is asking: WTF?
Plus, Australia's most successful online women are in a huge public feud. Jessie explains the All or Nothing story about Anna Paul and Mikaela Testa that's gone absolutely viral.
And, are you a feedback friend or the cheerleader friend? What's the difference, and should we actually be telling our friends the 'truth'?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
It's so funny because everyone's, you know, so busy with
their jobs and it's two o'clock on a Tuesday, and
all fourteen people jumped in there and they were like,
you go, girl, Dad is not their take it to
the union all you call the Prime Minister. He's got
to hear about. Like, we just escalated and escalated and escalated.
That's not what she was looking for a point of view.
She was she needed fourteen women. Yeah, to go, they
(00:42):
don't value you.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Hello and welcome to Mama Mia out loud. It's what
women are actually talking about. On Wednesday, the fifth of February,
I'm Holly Waynwright.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I'm Meya Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
And on the show today, my hair is on fire
about the new president of the USA and I'm not
even talking about Donald Trump. Why even me is telling
me to calm down?
Speaker 4 (01:08):
This week?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Also, Jesse has an all or nothing story for us
about how two of Australia's most successful online women are
at war and are you a feedback friend, but first,
Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
In case you missed it, diet coke and soft drink
more broadly is back in a big way, and that's because,
as I've said on this show before, it is a lovely,
refreshing beverage. Soft drink demand in the US is higher
than it's been in years, and the soft drink market
in Australia is projected to grow over the next four years.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Do you reckon? You're either a soft drink family or
you're not. Like I was not allowed soft drink in
our house, and I was always shocked whenever I'd see
the biggest selling item in a supermarket is Coca Cola.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
I feel shamed because when I was a kid, we
weren't a big soft drink family. It was definitely a novelty,
a Friday night novelty. But when I was a teenager
and I had a bit of pocket money, it was
all about the corner shop and going and just getting
myself a cheeky little I grew up with Britney spears
with diet coke on a boat like it was. It
was marketed to a boat.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
It's weird to me that it's on the increase though,
because aren't we all so very like butcher smoothie.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Also, diet's not a.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Well, firstly, I've been an ambassador for a while, just
gracefully unpaid, and that it's gone to be clear, this.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Is not a sponsor segment. And Jesse isn't actually an ambassador.
She cause herself one to justify her diago.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
I would love this to be sponsored, but they won't
pay me or because I keep giving them publicity. So
I've gone some way and popularizing the fizzy drink, but
it's not on me. Donald Trump, President Donald Trump has
brought back his diet coke button? What's that in the
Oval office? So when you come back in you get
to make some I'll change the curtains.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
They give you a little books with all the options
of different curtains and different Can.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
You imagine how big your tea cup would be if
you're a president of the United States.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
True?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Well, he has like a wooden box and it has
a button, and when he clicks the button, someone brings
him a diet coke on a silver platter. He loves it.
Else is a big diet coke guy. Is our good
friend Elon Musk. We'll get to him He recently said
that he tried to drink less diet coke, but he
didn't see any benefits. He reflected that his health stayed
(03:20):
the same, he felt less happy and he lost his
only source of joy.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
It's only source of joy.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Hard related then, celebrities like Dua Lipa Big and diet
coke has been going viral on TikTok all the different
things you can add to it.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
What's the difference between diet coke and.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Pepsi max No coke zero? Coke zero is trying to
be coke. It's trying to be coke without the sugar,
whereas diet coke is its own thing.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Di coke doesn't. So I don't drink any of these drinks.
But does diet coke diet coaste different to coke? I
think zero tastes like coke, Yes.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Exactly right, dik coke does not taste like coke. I
can't drink coke zero. It's disgusting. I would spit it out.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Can you drink coke?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I don't really love it. I love a frozen coke
at the movies. But diet coke and Pepsi Max and
my two kind of go tos. But look, clock is
right twice a day, as we say, and I am
at this moment.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
On trend, Oh my gosh, you and Elon Yeah, go
for gold.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Just jumping in to let you know that we recorded
this episode of Mamma Mia out loud before the latest
announcement from Donald Trump about Gaza. So if you're wondering
why we don't mention that in our segment about American
politics today, That's why. One of the personal rules I
try to live by is that when my wise but
(04:39):
excitable friend Mere Friedman tells me to calm down and
probably spirally. So it has been this week when I've
walked into several of our meetings with my hair smoking
from the fire. I was trying to hastily slap down
after reading or listening to something happening in America, specifically
the dramatic way that one very rich man seems to
(05:00):
have suddenly been granted blanket control over everything and by extension,
everyone and perhaps other bits of the world. And I'm
not even talking about Donald Trump. You might have seen
headlines around this week like Elon Musk is President now
and how the world's richest man laid waste to the US.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Government and you might be going, what.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
So I'm going to attempt a very brief explainer that
we're calling Elon Musk what the fuck? And I'm going
to remain calm doing it.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Can I just interrupt and say quickly, it's very strange.
It's a bit upside down day because for so many years,
like eight years, I have been the one coming in
with my hair on fire, and every time I would
try and picture story on Trump when he was president,
I would be told it's too weedy, it's far away.
And so what's funny is that Hole's been coming in
(05:52):
with a hair on fire a lot in the last week.
And I've literally been saying, I don't know about this
because I've made a rule that I don't click on
any story.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
You'll burnt out. And I don't think that everyone's burnt out.
I saw a graph the other day that said that
we have experienced about a year's worth of news in
a week, which is why it feels like you cannot
keep up with the headlines. I feel as though that
is a very intentional strategy.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Like shock and awe. So just like so much is
going on you can't even keep it out of your thoughts.
To respond to one thing, because then another huge thing happens.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Whilst I heard Elon Musk was appointed a position from
Donald Trump. Can you update me on what's been happening
with that position?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Please allow me, and please note my carbon measured tone.
Of course, this is top line because government policy is complicated.
So don't at me, woks, don't at me, okay.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Especially if someone's government. It isn't even your government exactly so,
but give it a red hot crap.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
As you said, Jesse, Donald Trump appointed Mosque, the man
that he credits with getting him elected in many ways,
as boss man of something called DOGE. Now that's the
Department of Government Efficiency, and it's a made up thing.
It's a bit like the Ministry of Magic. People like magic,
people like efficiency. Right, efficiency is.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Good cost saving fat cats.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
This weekend, Musk swung his big Doge into action. But
it seems to be about a lot more than efficiency.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Right.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
For example, he has this team.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Of employees and they're being branded, perhaps unfairly as Muscovites
by the media, but they do seem to be a
lot of like X and Tesla and Skylink employees, and
they're all like young bros.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, I saw pictures of like eight of them. It
looked like it was like their college yearbook photos, except
that's now they look very young.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
You won't be a tall alarmed with that. In mind
that the Treasury this weekend gave them all the passwords
and access to the whole federal government's payment system.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
So that seems good right now.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
What they've been doing with their doge is going into
government departments and in some cases closing them down, taking
them offline, or just firing people.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
That's big dough energy.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
It's big doge energy, my goodness.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
So it's what Musk did to Twitter.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
It is very much now Again, plenty of people like
what's called small government. People are like, that's good, less waste,
more efficiency, good good good. But like the ministry of magic,
in certain ideological hands, this power can change a lot
of LIFs. So remember the US government things it funds,
so things that it pays for.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Right.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
It pays for healthcare to a point we all know
that American health care isn't.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Great, but for people who are on really low incomes
and veterans and old people. Pays for that, Social Security
for the elderly, public education, It pays for defense, It
pays for transportation, for roads and rail, and it pays
for like science and research.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
So that's quite a lot of important stuff. Right.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Here are a few things that those fresh faced young
men from Mosque's team did on the weekend. They sent
two million government employees a little pop up message on
their computers encouraging them to resign immediately click here, agreed
to these terms, and off you go. Apparently, so far
only twenty thousand of those people have taken it up.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Why so, I know that Trump said every government employee
has to come back to work five days a week,
and if you don't want to do that, quit now
and we'll pay you like eight months worth of salary.
But please reply to this email with the subject line
resign exactly right, Like it's like that.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
It is like that, So agree to all these terms
and off you go. Obviously, the plan is to try
and get rid of a lot of people because doge
because efficiency. Also one thing that happened is many government
websites went dark so that they could have what's called
inclusive language in a commas scrubbed from them. Now, this
is a piece of theater, right because we work on
the internet and you can edit a website without taking
(09:45):
it down. You can edit your Instagram caption without taking
you can. But the way they've done this is with
maximum drama. So a lot of sites just went offline
and then came back online with their edits. Some of
those edits included the Center of Disease Control, removal of
pages about LBGTQ, youth health, HIV and MPOX prevention, giving
(10:08):
you a vibe right you vibe any state government references
to transgender people removed, changing the word gender on all
tick boxes to sex. Removal of the Spanish language version
of the White House website like oh my god, random shit.
And then also some entire departments were dismantled, so the
US Agency for International Development, which is the biggest provider
(10:30):
of food aid in the world, those people had to.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Clear up their desks. If you go, no, we're not
doing that anymore.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
It's interesting you say random, and it does seem random,
but it's also not. It's basically saying, if you are
not a white man, you don't exist for us. You
are not a priority. In some cases, you literally don't
exist anymore as far as the councilor US government's concerned.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
And lastly, although probably not.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Lastly, Let's face it, a lot of government communication was
shifted over exclusively to X SO, things like press releases
for the Transportation Authority. So so you know there was
that massive plane crash recently, so all information about that
from the Transportation Authority is now no longer being emailed
out to journalists or available anywhere else than on X
(11:14):
and Musk posted about that.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I can see why your hair is a little bit
on fire. I've missed all of this.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I know. So my hair is smoldering because although I
don't live there, and I know that, it demonstrates something
quite profound I think, which is how quickly an ideology
can take hold, and how one person, not even an
elected person, by the way, can take control of an
entire nation just by working on the weekend.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Should I throw some water on my hair, friends, I no, I.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Think it needs to keep flaming.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Let it burn. Baby.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
To me, this is bigger than us politics. This is
about capitalism at its logical conclusion. This is about capitalism
and a businessman getting his fingers in every single pie.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
And by that you mean Trump and now Eline now and.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Now Elon, so Elon Musk is not getting a paycheck
from the government. So the big question therefore becomes, why
would Elon do all of this work then? And the
answer is so obvious, and that's that it's power to
enrich himself, to enrich himself literally and figuratively.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
But quite literally. When he's just done that moving it
all over to X, that's enriched the value of X
by billions and billions of dollars. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
And the first thing I thought with this doge thing,
I had an argument with a friend who was like, well, efficiency.
He was saying, governments, you know, notoriously can be slow,
they can be bureaucratical. Maybe there are too many people
that are employed.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
We've all watched Utopia.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yeah, And I argued with him and said, the point
of a government is not to be at the whim
of like market outcomes. Not everything is about making money.
Efficiency is one thing. Another is to have the most
capitalist businessman in the entire world go and treat an
education department like it's a business, which it isn't. You
(13:03):
know what doesn't make sense to a billionaire is foreign aid, Like,
of course he's going to look at it and go, well,
this is a waste of money in it for us. Yeah,
it might kill a bunch of people when they're not
being fed anymore, and you might have an entire public
education system fall apart, but you're going to save some money.
And so to me, it's like this was the last
vestiges of the US that were untouched by capitalism.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I know what you're saying, but I think that the
part in the middle of that is that the money
that runs governments and the salaries that pay government employees
come from tax payers. Yes, so taxpayers dollars are being spent,
and every government has different priorities for how they spend
that money and different priorities for what outcomes they're looking for. Right, Yeah,
(13:50):
So one might be further towards the dial of compassion,
one might be further towards the dial of drama. You know,
there's a million different factors. But I think that the
idea of government being bloated and not running efficiently, that's
not a terrible thing to be against. You know, Uton
has talked about that's something that he's determined to do.
(14:14):
He wants to make that one of his platforms. And
as Whole says, that's actually pretty populist. Most people agree
that governments are bloate.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
But governments are held often to certain ethics and rules.
There's an idea behind it of why it was established
in the first place. So, for example, a lot of
these departments like JFK set them up and ever since,
whether it's Republican or a Democrat, they go. There are
certain ethics that guide our decision to fund this department
to have these outcomes. But then when someone comes in
(14:44):
who is devoid of ethics and just kind of goes
well market wise, this doesn't really make sense. I mean,
this is a very dystopian outcome.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I think I agree with you Mia that you know anytime,
and apparently particularly in America, I think you know way
worse than it. Anytime you have to touch a government department.
It can sometimes feel very frustrating about inefficiencies, particularly around
technology and things. So I get all that, but what
seems to be very worrying here is really the efficiency
thing seems to be a bit of a smoke screen,
(15:12):
because it's also about clearing out an element of employees
in the government who are not on the Trump train
or the MAGA train or the Elon train. Although in
a way that might also make sense theoretically because you're like, well, sure,
you come into power and you start going. You know,
I'm going to make changes to education and transport and stuff.
That's what I was elected for. But historically, and also
because of the nature of how quickly governments turn over,
(15:34):
the boss in charge of trains doesn't really need to
be a Trump person, right, or a Biden person or
a Greens person or a Liberal person or whatever. He
or she just needs to know how to run trains.
And this seems to be very much a kind of
let's clear everybody out and put our agenda in, and
it just feels very creepy.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
After the break. There are two types of friend, which
one are you plus our grammy's debrief and an influencer drama?
Now that is what kind of friend are you? Are
you a feedback friend or a cheerleader friend. Last week
we brought you the syndrome of micro pettiness, which became
(16:15):
a viral phenomenon thanks to us. This week we're going
to talk about the two types of friend feedback friends
or cheerleader friends. And this distinction has come from Holly Wainwright.
She did an interview on her other podcast mid this
week with Amanda Keller and a woman called Anita McGregor,
who is Amanda's best friend. She's also a forensic psychologist. Now,
(16:38):
Amanda and Anita have been friends for many, many years,
and in the conversation with them both, which is about friendship,
holl asks them about whether good friends are the people
who call each other out or if a good friend
is actually just a supportive rock no matter what. And
here's how Amanda's friend Anita responds, I think.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
It depends on the friendship. Like you and I have
had that conversation that you know, if I looked really
terrible in an outfit, you wouldn't tell me that. I
would never tell you the never to even though I'd
want to hear it, Like I'm really big on feedback,
and so I doubt that that would make you feel uncomfortable,
even though I'd like to hear it. And so, and
(17:20):
I recognize that you are sensitive, and.
Speaker 6 (17:22):
So are all my outfits terrible. It's all I've heard
in this entire conversation.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
She's been meaning to talk to you about you. We've
had this.
Speaker 6 (17:31):
We actually have had this conversation. I wrote a book
a number of years ago, and Anita wanted to read
it and I said, oh, here, it is just thinking.
I'm just passing it over and she said, how would
you How do you take feedback? I went, feedback?
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I love that so much. It got us thinking about
friendship and whether we're the feedback friend or the cheerleader friend,
but also what we like from our friends, because I
think perhaps with some friends and in some instances, you're
the feedback friend and in others you're the cheerleader friend. Jesse,
would you like some feedback from me about the kind
of friend I think you are?
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Please?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
I think you would love to be the feedback friend,
but you're too intimidated. Week Yes, you're too weak, and
so you are the cheerleading friend, but you don't mean it.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Can I ask you something? Yesterday? You said something in
a conversation and I thought, I don't think Maya realizes
how her tone came across in that, and it crossed
my mind. I go, do I tell Mia, Yes, as Maya,
And this is true about your life, Maya. You walk
around getting more feedback than anyone I know, because you're
a business owner, because of your family, because of social media,
(18:40):
because of your personality. I couldn't handle all the amount
of feedback that.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
You but I do and I don't like. I do
get a lot of feedback, but there are also a
lot of people who are too scared to give me
feedback because I don't know they work for me.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
But also like, who am I? Maybe you made that
choice to use that tone, and I just thought, Oh,
should I say something.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
I love that?
Speaker 6 (19:01):
Really?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yes? Are you kidding me? Okay? I think you're ever known?
Have you ever known me to not want feedb Collie
hates feedback too, but I I love it. I don't
know why. I find friends who give me feedback are
the ones who I feel safest with because I try them.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
See, my thing is always I can be the feedback
friend if I feel like I have any expertise in
what the person's talking about. So if someone's talking about
an issue at work and I don't know anything about
their industry, I will listen and cheerlead. If I have
a friend I've had this a few times who is
thinking about writing a book, then I go, I wonder
(19:42):
if they want me to give them some advice, not
because I'm an expert, because I've done it before and
I've kind of waited to see what they think and
I've had the same thing where a friend has sent
a book or whatever and you've gone, do I say
something about like what I'd picked up on page seventeen
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I thought that was so interesting that Amanda was saying
very clearly whole, wasn't she to Anita, It didn't occur
to me that you give me feedback. I just wanted
you to say, this is great, you're write me.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
I don't like feedback. I mean I do.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I like it in some circumstances. But when Amanda described
she said in this interview, she said, I'm really sensitive,
and I don't think of myself as a sensitive person, right,
I think of herself.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
As like storic, practical Blochester.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
But I am very sensitive to feedback, and it's important
to me.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
I think that is.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Do you think I'm sensitive to feedback in a professional sense,
like I've had my whole career of being edited.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
And I am very very glad of that. And it
only makes.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
People because that's a form of feedback.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
He isn't one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
And I wonder if that's a little bit why I
don't really like feedback in other areas of my life.
Is I feel like I get enough of.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
It, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
We get a lot of feedback on this show because
we're public people and we're in the world, and people
are say, I don't like the way you said that,
I don't like you know, you should have said this,
and I read it and I take it on, and
so I feel like I get a lot of it.
Speaker 7 (20:58):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
I don't want feedback from my friends, like if I
specifically ask for it, like what should I do in
this situation or me? Or what bag should I buy?
Or what do you think I should do about this?
Then yes, and I have a wise counsel that I
will ask those things to you too, obviously in that council,
You're right.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Because that I do not like driving solicited feedback. I
agree you. No, I can confirm. I think that feedback,
if it's unsolicited, becomes advice. An advice that's not asked
for can feel like pressure, and I think that that's
the worst thing you can do in a friendship. It
(21:34):
can really damage a friendship, is to give unsolicited advice.
Feedback to me is different because advice is like, here's
what I think you should do. Feedback to me is
you might like what you just said Jessie, I clearly
wasn't aware, because I don't think I was trying to
be a bitch. I'm never trying to be a bitch.
But feedback is, hey, you might not realize how that
(21:55):
came across. When you said that, I'd be like, oh,
thank you for telling me that.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
So we have a group chat and there's like fourteen
of a cent it and a friend recently put in
an issue that she was having at work, right and
it was a very very specific issue, and everyone jumped
in it So funny because everyone's, you know, so busy
with their jobs and it's two o'clock on a Tuesday,
and all fourteen people jumped in there and they were like,
you go, go that is not their take it to
the union. You call the Prime Minister. He's got to
(22:22):
hear about Like, we just escalated and escalated and escalated.
If that had been a situation, yes, and a lot
of yeasing, a lot of hearts. I'm pretty sure there
was a strong arm like lots of emojis. Maybe there
had been and not in the situation, but you know,
maybe there was someone who kind of went, well, I
can see the bosses point of that's not what she
was looking for. She was looking for the bosses' point
(22:43):
of view. She needed fourteen women to go they don't
value you. Yeah, that's what we do. And that's when
you walk into a restaurant or drinks or cocktails, there's
a gaggle of women and you'll often hear a shriek,
and that shriek is a cheerleading friends because they're like,
there's just an energy that women get. And we've talked
about this before that the women Cops shared a lot.
(23:05):
You cop shpped just because you're a woman in the world,
there are very few spaces where people'll just cheer you
on for being you. And I think that's the beauty
of having like a close knit female group.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
We're in a group, Holly and I with a friend
who's going through breast cancer treatment at the moment, and
there's so many random people from her life in that group,
everyone from I think her mother to just all different
people from her life. And it's very funny because the
pure point, there's two points of that. One is for
her to be able to convey information to us as
a group instead of having eight million conversations. But then
(23:35):
it's pure purpose for us is to be able to
be cheerleaders. Yeah, and it might be you go girl.
This week it was funny. Everyone just posted a funny
picture of where they were just to amuse her or
each other because she'd started radiation. And that is a
classic case. But then it's really funny. I was in
a work group chat as well where someone asked for
(23:59):
feedback in a channel of thirty one people no, and
it was like.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
And I think me is really good at this.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
And one of the things I asked man for feedback
on sometimes is how to give like another. So a
friend is making terrible decision after terrible decision, whether it's
about relationship or something in their lifestyle or their job
or whatever, and you can see the pattern because you've
been around them a long time as a cheerleader friend, right,
I see my job as being always you're the place
where they fall like and that's okay, that's your role,
(24:27):
and you always go it's okay, babe, it'll be fine,
we'll work it out.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Feedback.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Friend is the one who's going to do the call out, right,
And is it possible.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
To be both those people at once?
Speaker 1 (24:37):
It is because you've just got to read not what
you think needs to happen, but what your friend needs
from you in that moment, which is what Jesse did
with the person who just needed advice. I know that
when I'm often in an elevated state of outrage or
indignation or feeling very hurt about something, what I need,
I'll go to the person, or I'll keep going until
(24:58):
I find the person who will match my same level
of indignation, outrage, devastation, disappointment, whatever, not someone who will
try to give me a d different point of view.
That could be what I would need. If I'm genuinely
puzzled about something like you know, I might say how
should I handle this? Or did I come across really
(25:19):
badly in that conversation? But my worst trait is that
I give too much unsolicited advice. Sometimes you just need
to be let them queen, let them find the queen
of you both laughing, I'm the queen of unsolicited advice
and unsolicited feedback, particularly about what you both are wearing. Also,
But that's but that's because.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Yeah, I think I'm a bad person, you know, I
reckon that. The takeaway here too, is that if you
have a friend who is never in any context your cheerleader.
Then that's a big red flag. Yeah, it's like you
can be both. Absolutely, you can be a full cheerleader.
You can't be a.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Fool because I'm also in my defense, I'm a big cheerleader.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
You're a massive cheerleader. That's why you get away with it.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Okay, good After the.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Break, Australia's biggest influencer drama just got a whole lot messier.
It's our very juicy all.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Or Nothing one unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes
every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Follow the link in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
To get us in your ears five days a week.
And a huge thank you to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Friends, this segment isn't all or nothing. You either know
everything about Anna Paul's very bad week, you're deep on
Mikayla Tester's TikTok, and yeah, you have some feelings about Attis.
I think that's how you say it.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Did any of those words make sense to you, Mia Friedman.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I vaguely know who Anna Paul is. Yeah, I think
she's an influencer. Does she have an only fans account?
Speaker 3 (26:55):
She's one of the biggest Only Fans creators in the country.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
I tried to get her to come on no filter.
She's impossible to reach. I didn't even say no, she
just didn't reply for a year.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Very famous. If you are deep in this rabbit hole,
you also suddenly know the ins and outs of Australian
lottery laws.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Okay, Can I just ask one question about the fame
we have discussed before? How one of the things about
our fragmented world? As you say, she's very, very famous.
Like could she walk down the street in the middle
of Sydney.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
She would be swarmed, Right, your daughter Holly would probably
if you cornered her, she would go yeah, I noel, Right,
is she.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Famous with who's who's her demographic?
Speaker 3 (27:30):
I would say young people?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
And what she famous for like on.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
TikTok At this moment, I'd say she has about six
and a half million followers on Instagram probably similar and
she is one of the biggest only Fans creator.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
What does she post about? Because only fans I understand
to be mostly sex.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Sexually content, but she's also very like wholesome, Like she
posts really normal stuff. I think one of her most
viral videos is her doing like a dance.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
So she's got different brands.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Brand as well for like younger women.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
So when you say younger, do you mean like women
in their twenties or like I would say, like sixteen year.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Olds, I would say like early twenties, like young.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Right, And I like her because she's pretty. Is she
financially successful?
Speaker 3 (28:14):
So her brand is kind and relatable?
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Okay, okay, got it? That was her number one crime.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Does she sell anything?
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Well, that's your brand. You'll also in trouble.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
So obviously, obviously the only fans is her big thing.
If you think of it like a funnel, then the
big bit is like she gets the TikTok, she gets
Instagram audience, and then ideally people are going to pay
for her only fans. And in the last week she's
lost one million followers on TikTok, so that's a big deal.
You two are like most in Australia. If you don't
know who Anna, Mikayla or an Attus is, you don't
(28:48):
know what platform they live in, and you certainly don't
have time to watch a nine minute video full of allegations,
a bunch of which we cannot today legally.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Air I tried to read it in When we were
researching this, I tried to read a story about it
that was on Mamma Mia Whole. I think you did too. Also,
I'm not much the wiser.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
It's really hard because it's like you need to understand
the characters, the background. But I'm going to do my
very very best.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
So okay, because like everything this is, it's really a
philosophical discussion about ideas. We're just using these people as pawns.
Let's start with Anna Paul. Okay, So we talked about
the fact that her brand is kindness, relatable, big, big stuff.
Then over on the other side we have Michayla. Mikayla
and Anna Paul been very good friends since they were fifteen.
(29:32):
For a few years, Mikayla dates Attis. Who is Attis?
Great question, Anna Paul's brother, Okay, Okay, now they break up?
Speaker 4 (29:40):
What does he do?
Speaker 1 (29:41):
No? Sorry, no, no, no, no follow up?
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
But Mikayla yep is also very big on only fans, very.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Big following similar kind of vibes.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Very similar vibes.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
A little over a week ago, Mikayla posts a story
on Instagram. Maya, I want you to read what that
story says, I'm gonna give it to you here. It's
a bit in bold, please read it.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
If you have to incentivize people to buy your exclusive
website by running cash giveaways so your underage followers bend
tend to hopefully win one thousand dollars, you're basically running
an illegal lottery and taking advantage of children. It's gross.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
So for a portion of the Internet that was explosive,
I saw that novel, that's fine. I'm lacking context to
who's doing.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
What, Why? How are we exploding children with a lottery.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Here's how the children are being exploded with the lottery.
Everyone immediately knew this was a dig at Anna Paul.
It was a dig at Annapaul because a few hours
before she had posted.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Oh so that's called a subtweet. Subtweet when you don't
mention someone, but everyone knows what ever talking about.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Because she had posted a link to her only fans,
and what she does is she says, come to my
only fans, I'm giving away money, so subscribe and then
pay to subscribe. Pay to subscribe, which I think is
like sixteen bucks or something. Come subscribe to my only fans,
and then for some lucky fans. I'm going to give
you five hundred one thousand. I'm just going to give
you money. Right, you're allowed to do that. I don't
(31:03):
think you are well. I've gone deep on lottery laws,
and yeah you can, as long as it's less than
three thousand dollars. I had to do it. It's like
people do this all the time, like a version of it,
like and it's pretty transparent. But anyway, a few days later,
Mikayla uploads a nine minute video.
Speaker 7 (31:19):
It's way easier to hate me for calling her out
when she's wrong than accepting that the Anna you guys
love and idolize so much she never existed. You don't
know her.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
You don't know her like I know her.
Speaker 7 (31:29):
You have never met her, and if you have, it's
nothing more than a five second sulfie. These people that
watch her don't know the Anna that I know. They
know the other Anna, the one she wears when the
camera starts rolling. I can't blame the parasocials, because I
too would do the same for someone that I looked
up to. But my experience with Anna was a lot
different to all of you. Mine was a real experience.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
So this is Anna's ex sister in Laura Cent correct.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Correct, yep. So do you want the headlines from the
nine minute video?
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (31:55):
What did she do?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (31:57):
So what's the Anna that she knows?
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Well?
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Firstly, Anna Paul claims to be very body positive, but
apparently years ago she was at an event and a
fan came up and gave her a hug, and this
fan was plus size and when she walked away and
a Paul complained to Mikayla, oh, she was so fat
and sweaty.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Number one. That's not good.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
It's not good. It's also completely unverified.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
Exactly who knows. Maybe she said it, maybe she didn't.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Number two, and this is a big one. Anna Paul
claims that she grew up broke. It is part of
her story. It is part of the narrative that she
sort of sells on Instagram and TikTok that she grew
up with not a lot as a kid. And now
the reason she wants to make all this money on
OnlyFans because now she'd be rolling in it, is that
she wants to take her parents on holiday, she wants
to buy them houses, all of that, and Mikayla says,
(32:43):
you did not grow up broke. You had a house
on the water with a pool, and you were upper
middle class, right. And the third thing is this lottery
claim thing. She just says your Instagram, a lot of
your content is aimed at young, young, young people.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Because you can't post sexually explain. You can't even have
a nipple out on Instagram or on TikTok.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
So we all know that only fans creators are using
Instagram and TikTok as advertising for their only fans. What
Mikayla's claiming that Anna Paul is doing is trying to
attract a bunch of young people and then getting underage
people to go to only fans. Only fans does have
very strict guidelines about who can sign up.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
I have another dumb question about this, isn't it probably
two different follower groups, Like, aren't probably most of Anna
Paul's Only Fans followers male and probably most of the
TikTok followers are female. So isn't it that you don't
necessarily need to cross pollinate.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
You're just capturing all the mask Except Mikayla's claim is
if you're saying to people in a cost of living crisis,
I'm going to give away money. Then suddenly you've got
someone subscribing to your sexually explicit content for sixteen dollars,
who's a single mother who really just needs a thousand
bucks on it.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
But that's on her, that's on the person who decides to,
you know, spend Sea exactly essentially by a lot try ticket.
And that's not illegal? Is it ethical? If she's channeling
essentially the people who follow her on these quote mark
safe platforms or g rated platforms and sending them to.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Her only fans, what do you think?
Speaker 1 (34:23):
I think there's worse to see on the internet if
you've got access to a credit card and you can
pay sixteen dollars to maybe see her boom. Yes, I
don't think they're a very strict guy shocking thing in
the world. It's not that strict because I had to
join Only Fans when I was interviewing a creator last
year and to post picture on my feet. Yeah, I
(34:45):
was a bit confused about where Only Fans was. And
it's not an app, it's just a website essentially, and
you do have to whatever. It's tricky, it's not very
user friendly. But if the worst she's talking about is that,
because remember you meant to be over a certain age
to be on TikTok or you know whatever, and they
can pay six what they might typically but boobs, how
(35:06):
explicit is the content under that and you can see
a lot worse on the internet for free.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
I actually think those other two claims are probably more
brand damaging because they press two very specific buttons. The
body positivity one, as Jesse's pointed out, is impossible to verify, yeah,
but very effective because what that claim does is it
puts a seed into the minds of everyone who loves
Anna Paul and who maybe is meta in an event,
and who has felt that Anna Paul sees them as
(35:32):
beautiful no matter what size they are. Maybe she was
mocking me all along. It's a very effective brand damaging
claim because it's no way of proving it wrong and
it goes to the heart of her appeal. And the
other one pushes a button that we love to push
in Australia, which is about class, which is you know,
classless Sali blah blah. No, it's like who's rich, who's poor?
Who should feel that way? What makes you rich? It's
(35:54):
a conversation that Australians love. So I actually think that
those two claims are probably more powerful.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
I read Anna Paul's response to this, and I thought
it was very measured. She didn't talk about the lottery thing,
like she completely didn't talk about that, but she did
talk about the details that she might have said something
about a fan being sweaty or fat. She said she
would never call anyone fat, but she might have said
that someone was sweaty. And she said, when you're in
a line hugging like one hundred people, you know, sometimes
(36:23):
I have to get a wipe and wipe my shoulder
because people are sweaty. Sometimes people would probably walk away
and say, and a port was sweaty, because sometimes I
get sweaty. So she explained that in a way that
seemed plausible. And then the broke thing. Can you say
what she said, Jesse, because I thought this was interesting.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Too, the broke response because she uploaded that like a
seven eight minute video, and the broke thing was really interesting.
She said, when I said I grew up broke, that
is my experience. That is how I felt. When I
can hear my parents talking in the kitchen that the
budget for the groceries that week is thirty dollars, it
makes me feel broke when we can't afford school uniforms.
It makes me feel broke When I am eleven and
my friends can afford something and my parents can't, That
(36:59):
makes me feel broke.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
What I think is so interesting about that is makes
me feel broke. And this idea about poverty or being
broke is a feeling. It's not necessary objective. I mean
it's both. It is. You know, there's a poverty line, clearly,
but the idea of it being a fear.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
That has been widely mocked, the idea like TikTok is
now going I feel broke and making a big joke
of that. What I think She ended that by basically
saying I never said I was the most broke, and
there are always going to be people who are less
well off.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Yeah, I thought that was reasonable.
Speaker 4 (37:34):
So we can't, like, what do we want?
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Do we want to see a parents pay slips?
Speaker 2 (37:37):
No? But come on, Like, I agree with all that
and empathy and kindness, et cetera. But if you're going
to make it part of your story that you grew
up working class and you didn't have things and you've
always wanted to be but you did actually grow up
in a house by the water with a pool. I'm sorry,
I don't think she shouldn't have done that. We're never
gonna for sure, It's just two people going against each.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
I have literally only heard about this woman today, so.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
That if you can feel your brain cells as they
just evaporate. I think what's interesting about this is that
the influencer taking on influencer playbook is an old and
very well used one, because like why is she come
out and done this? Like why because she's trying to
protect the kids from being lots.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
At the end of her video, Mikayla says, I'm posting
this because I care about children and young adults being
conned by her, and I thought that is not why.
So the reason this is so big is because, as
we know, with TikTok, you will go viral faster than
anywhere else. We're talking twenty two to twenty three million views,
millions of likes, the death threats that both of these
(38:48):
women would be copying right now. If the end goal
is to get more subscribers to their only fans, maybe
that would work. But the conclusion I've made is that
Makayla and attis this guy who sounds awful like her
allegations are really serious against him. There's clearly been a
big falling out.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
But that's not his sister. Like if he's a crazy.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Please, that's not his sister. But if I'm Kayla and
I do an explosive video about Attis, who firstly never
heard of him, Secondly he's a man, you're not gonna
get nearly as much traction. The interest here is two women,
two only fan stars, and guess what. The Internet has
images of them both in a bikini and they're gonna
post them everywhere and they're going to go back and forth.
(39:30):
And the drama and the heat and the energy. It's
like when I was talking recently about that wrestling documentary
as just wrestling, and so it's all like all of
this heat and momentum. It might look like fun for
a minute, but I watched Anna Paul's video and she
was saying this is going to kill someone. Like this
stuff where you pick up where you go, Anna Paul
is trending on the algorithm. I'm gonna pick my phone
(39:51):
up and do a take on Anna Paul.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
All of that is sick virality of canceling.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Yeah, yeah, And I just look at it and go
this is not fun. This is sinister.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Before we go. It was a big week at the Grammys.
It was one of the youngest, most female, most exciting
Grammys I watched. I mean, the ceremony was nuts. It
was three hours and forty five minutes. I didn't watch
all of it. I watched a lot of it on
fast forward, but the performances were We unpacked all of it,
including some unsolicited feedback from me about the Red carpet.
(40:27):
Everybody from Taylor to Doci to Chapel Roan to Gracie Abrams.
There was some very exciting things on the Red Carpet.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Boiler out me I has some feedback for Taylor Swift's hair, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
I do. As always, there'll be a link in the
show notes. You know you want to hear us talk
about that, so go ahead and listen now.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Massive thank you to all of the out louders for
being here with us today, and of course to our
team for putting it together.
Speaker 4 (40:51):
We're going to be back in your ears tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Sending love to you, Ruth.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Yeah. Shout out to any Mum and me A subscribers listening.
If you love the show and you want to support us,
subscribing Tomma Mia is the very best way to do so.
There's a link in the episode description.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Pay Do Be Repent content
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
It's so funny because everyone's, you know, so busy with
their jobs and it's two o'clock on a Tuesday, and
all fourteen people jumped in there and they were like,
you go, girl, Dad is not their take it to
the union all you call the Prime Minister. He's got
to hear about. Like, we just escalated and escalated and escalated.
That's not what she was looking for a point of view.
She was she needed fourteen women. Yeah, to go, they
(00:42):
don't value you.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Hello and welcome to Mama Mia out loud. It's what
women are actually talking about. On Wednesday, the fifth of February,
I'm Holly Waynwright.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I'm Meya Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
And on the show today, my hair is on fire
about the new president of the USA and I'm not
even talking about Donald Trump. Why even me is telling
me to calm down?
Speaker 4 (01:08):
This week?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Also, Jesse has an all or nothing story for us
about how two of Australia's most successful online women are
at war and are you a feedback friend, but first,
Jesse Stevens.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
In case you missed it, diet coke and soft drink
more broadly is back in a big way, and that's because,
as I've said on this show before, it is a lovely,
refreshing beverage. Soft drink demand in the US is higher
than it's been in years, and the soft drink market
in Australia is projected to grow over the next four years.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Do you reckon? You're either a soft drink family or
you're not. Like I was not allowed soft drink in
our house, and I was always shocked whenever I'd see
the biggest selling item in a supermarket is Coca Cola.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
I feel shamed because when I was a kid, we
weren't a big soft drink family. It was definitely a novelty,
a Friday night novelty. But when I was a teenager
and I had a bit of pocket money, it was
all about the corner shop and going and just getting
myself a cheeky little I grew up with Britney spears
with diet coke on a boat like it was. It
was marketed to a boat.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
It's weird to me that it's on the increase though,
because aren't we all so very like butcher smoothie.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Also, diet's not a.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Well, firstly, I've been an ambassador for a while, just
gracefully unpaid, and that it's gone to be clear, this.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Is not a sponsor segment. And Jesse isn't actually an ambassador.
She cause herself one to justify her diago.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
I would love this to be sponsored, but they won't
pay me or because I keep giving them publicity. So
I've gone some way and popularizing the fizzy drink, but
it's not on me. Donald Trump, President Donald Trump has
brought back his diet coke button? What's that in the
Oval office? So when you come back in you get
to make some I'll change the curtains.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
They give you a little books with all the options
of different curtains and different Can.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
You imagine how big your tea cup would be if
you're a president of the United States.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
True?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Well, he has like a wooden box and it has
a button, and when he clicks the button, someone brings
him a diet coke on a silver platter. He loves it.
Else is a big diet coke guy. Is our good
friend Elon Musk. We'll get to him He recently said
that he tried to drink less diet coke, but he
didn't see any benefits. He reflected that his health stayed
(03:20):
the same, he felt less happy and he lost his
only source of joy.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
It's only source of joy.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Hard related then, celebrities like Dua Lipa Big and diet
coke has been going viral on TikTok all the different
things you can add to it.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
What's the difference between diet coke and.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Pepsi max No coke zero? Coke zero is trying to
be coke. It's trying to be coke without the sugar,
whereas diet coke is its own thing.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Di coke doesn't. So I don't drink any of these drinks.
But does diet coke diet coaste different to coke? I
think zero tastes like coke, Yes.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Exactly right, dik coke does not taste like coke. I
can't drink coke zero. It's disgusting. I would spit it out.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Can you drink coke?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
I don't really love it. I love a frozen coke
at the movies. But diet coke and Pepsi Max and
my two kind of go tos. But look, clock is
right twice a day, as we say, and I am
at this moment.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
On trend, Oh my gosh, you and Elon Yeah, go
for gold.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Just jumping in to let you know that we recorded
this episode of Mamma Mia out loud before the latest
announcement from Donald Trump about Gaza. So if you're wondering
why we don't mention that in our segment about American
politics today, That's why. One of the personal rules I
try to live by is that when my wise but
(04:39):
excitable friend Mere Friedman tells me to calm down and
probably spirally. So it has been this week when I've
walked into several of our meetings with my hair smoking
from the fire. I was trying to hastily slap down
after reading or listening to something happening in America, specifically
the dramatic way that one very rich man seems to
(05:00):
have suddenly been granted blanket control over everything and by extension,
everyone and perhaps other bits of the world. And I'm
not even talking about Donald Trump. You might have seen
headlines around this week like Elon Musk is President now
and how the world's richest man laid waste to the US.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Government and you might be going, what.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
So I'm going to attempt a very brief explainer that
we're calling Elon Musk what the fuck? And I'm going
to remain calm doing it.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Can I just interrupt and say quickly, it's very strange.
It's a bit upside down day because for so many years,
like eight years, I have been the one coming in
with my hair on fire, and every time I would
try and picture story on Trump when he was president,
I would be told it's too weedy, it's far away.
And so what's funny is that Hole's been coming in
(05:52):
with a hair on fire a lot in the last week.
And I've literally been saying, I don't know about this
because I've made a rule that I don't click on
any story.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
You'll burnt out. And I don't think that everyone's burnt out.
I saw a graph the other day that said that
we have experienced about a year's worth of news in
a week, which is why it feels like you cannot
keep up with the headlines. I feel as though that
is a very intentional strategy.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Like shock and awe. So just like so much is
going on you can't even keep it out of your thoughts.
To respond to one thing, because then another huge thing happens.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Whilst I heard Elon Musk was appointed a position from
Donald Trump. Can you update me on what's been happening
with that position?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Please allow me, and please note my carbon measured tone.
Of course, this is top line because government policy is complicated.
So don't at me, woks, don't at me, okay.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Especially if someone's government. It isn't even your government exactly so,
but give it a red hot crap.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
As you said, Jesse, Donald Trump appointed Mosque, the man
that he credits with getting him elected in many ways,
as boss man of something called DOGE. Now that's the
Department of Government Efficiency, and it's a made up thing.
It's a bit like the Ministry of Magic. People like magic,
people like efficiency. Right, efficiency is.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Good cost saving fat cats.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
This weekend, Musk swung his big Doge into action. But
it seems to be about a lot more than efficiency.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Right.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
For example, he has this team.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Of employees and they're being branded, perhaps unfairly as Muscovites
by the media, but they do seem to be a
lot of like X and Tesla and Skylink employees, and
they're all like young bros.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Yeah, I saw pictures of like eight of them. It
looked like it was like their college yearbook photos, except
that's now they look very young.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
You won't be a tall alarmed with that. In mind
that the Treasury this weekend gave them all the passwords
and access to the whole federal government's payment system.
Speaker 4 (07:48):
So that seems good right now.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
What they've been doing with their doge is going into
government departments and in some cases closing them down, taking
them offline, or just firing people.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
That's big dough energy.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
It's big doge energy, my goodness.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
So it's what Musk did to Twitter.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
It is very much now Again, plenty of people like
what's called small government. People are like, that's good, less waste,
more efficiency, good good good. But like the ministry of magic,
in certain ideological hands, this power can change a lot
of LIFs. So remember the US government things it funds,
so things that it pays for.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Right.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
It pays for healthcare to a point we all know
that American health care isn't.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Great, but for people who are on really low incomes
and veterans and old people. Pays for that, Social Security
for the elderly, public education, It pays for defense, It
pays for transportation, for roads and rail, and it pays
for like science and research.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
So that's quite a lot of important stuff. Right.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Here are a few things that those fresh faced young
men from Mosque's team did on the weekend. They sent
two million government employees a little pop up message on
their computers encouraging them to resign immediately click here, agreed
to these terms, and off you go. Apparently, so far
only twenty thousand of those people have taken it up.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Why so, I know that Trump said every government employee
has to come back to work five days a week,
and if you don't want to do that, quit now
and we'll pay you like eight months worth of salary.
But please reply to this email with the subject line
resign exactly right, Like it's like that.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
It is like that, So agree to all these terms
and off you go. Obviously, the plan is to try
and get rid of a lot of people because doge
because efficiency. Also one thing that happened is many government
websites went dark so that they could have what's called
inclusive language in a commas scrubbed from them. Now, this
is a piece of theater, right because we work on
the internet and you can edit a website without taking
(09:45):
it down. You can edit your Instagram caption without taking
you can. But the way they've done this is with
maximum drama. So a lot of sites just went offline
and then came back online with their edits. Some of
those edits included the Center of Disease Control, removal of
pages about LBGTQ, youth health, HIV and MPOX prevention, giving
(10:08):
you a vibe right you vibe any state government references
to transgender people removed, changing the word gender on all
tick boxes to sex. Removal of the Spanish language version
of the White House website like oh my god, random shit.
And then also some entire departments were dismantled, so the
US Agency for International Development, which is the biggest provider
(10:30):
of food aid in the world, those people had to.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Clear up their desks. If you go, no, we're not
doing that anymore.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
It's interesting you say random, and it does seem random,
but it's also not. It's basically saying, if you are
not a white man, you don't exist for us. You
are not a priority. In some cases, you literally don't
exist anymore as far as the councilor US government's concerned.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
And lastly, although probably not.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Lastly, Let's face it, a lot of government communication was
shifted over exclusively to X SO, things like press releases
for the Transportation Authority. So so you know there was
that massive plane crash recently, so all information about that
from the Transportation Authority is now no longer being emailed
out to journalists or available anywhere else than on X
(11:14):
and Musk posted about that.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I can see why your hair is a little bit
on fire. I've missed all of this.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I know. So my hair is smoldering because although I
don't live there, and I know that, it demonstrates something
quite profound I think, which is how quickly an ideology
can take hold, and how one person, not even an
elected person, by the way, can take control of an
entire nation just by working on the weekend.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Should I throw some water on my hair, friends, I no, I.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Think it needs to keep flaming.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Let it burn. Baby.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
To me, this is bigger than us politics. This is
about capitalism at its logical conclusion. This is about capitalism
and a businessman getting his fingers in every single pie.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
And by that you mean Trump and now Eline now and.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Now Elon, so Elon Musk is not getting a paycheck
from the government. So the big question therefore becomes, why
would Elon do all of this work then? And the
answer is so obvious, and that's that it's power to
enrich himself, to enrich himself literally and figuratively.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
But quite literally. When he's just done that moving it
all over to X, that's enriched the value of X
by billions and billions of dollars. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
And the first thing I thought with this doge thing,
I had an argument with a friend who was like, well, efficiency.
He was saying, governments, you know, notoriously can be slow,
they can be bureaucratical. Maybe there are too many people
that are employed.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
We've all watched Utopia.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Yeah, And I argued with him and said, the point
of a government is not to be at the whim
of like market outcomes. Not everything is about making money.
Efficiency is one thing. Another is to have the most
capitalist businessman in the entire world go and treat an
education department like it's a business, which it isn't. You
(13:03):
know what doesn't make sense to a billionaire is foreign aid, Like,
of course he's going to look at it and go, well,
this is a waste of money in it for us. Yeah,
it might kill a bunch of people when they're not
being fed anymore, and you might have an entire public
education system fall apart, but you're going to save some money.
And so to me, it's like this was the last
vestiges of the US that were untouched by capitalism.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I know what you're saying, but I think that the
part in the middle of that is that the money
that runs governments and the salaries that pay government employees
come from tax payers. Yes, so taxpayers dollars are being spent,
and every government has different priorities for how they spend
that money and different priorities for what outcomes they're looking for. Right, Yeah,
(13:50):
So one might be further towards the dial of compassion,
one might be further towards the dial of drama. You know,
there's a million different factors. But I think that the
idea of government being bloated and not running efficiently, that's
not a terrible thing to be against. You know, Uton
has talked about that's something that he's determined to do.
(14:14):
He wants to make that one of his platforms. And
as Whole says, that's actually pretty populist. Most people agree
that governments are bloate.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
But governments are held often to certain ethics and rules.
There's an idea behind it of why it was established
in the first place. So, for example, a lot of
these departments like JFK set them up and ever since,
whether it's Republican or a Democrat, they go. There are
certain ethics that guide our decision to fund this department
to have these outcomes. But then when someone comes in
(14:44):
who is devoid of ethics and just kind of goes
well market wise, this doesn't really make sense. I mean,
this is a very dystopian outcome.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I think I agree with you Mia that you know anytime,
and apparently particularly in America, I think you know way
worse than it. Anytime you have to touch a government department.
It can sometimes feel very frustrating about inefficiencies, particularly around
technology and things. So I get all that, but what
seems to be very worrying here is really the efficiency
thing seems to be a bit of a smoke screen,
(15:12):
because it's also about clearing out an element of employees
in the government who are not on the Trump train
or the MAGA train or the Elon train. Although in
a way that might also make sense theoretically because you're like, well, sure,
you come into power and you start going. You know,
I'm going to make changes to education and transport and stuff.
That's what I was elected for. But historically, and also
because of the nature of how quickly governments turn over,
(15:34):
the boss in charge of trains doesn't really need to
be a Trump person, right, or a Biden person or
a Greens person or a Liberal person or whatever. He
or she just needs to know how to run trains.
And this seems to be very much a kind of
let's clear everybody out and put our agenda in, and
it just feels very creepy.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
After the break. There are two types of friend, which
one are you plus our grammy's debrief and an influencer drama?
Now that is what kind of friend are you? Are
you a feedback friend or a cheerleader friend. Last week
we brought you the syndrome of micro pettiness, which became
(16:15):
a viral phenomenon thanks to us. This week we're going
to talk about the two types of friend feedback friends
or cheerleader friends. And this distinction has come from Holly Wainwright.
She did an interview on her other podcast mid this
week with Amanda Keller and a woman called Anita McGregor,
who is Amanda's best friend. She's also a forensic psychologist. Now,
(16:38):
Amanda and Anita have been friends for many, many years,
and in the conversation with them both, which is about friendship,
holl asks them about whether good friends are the people
who call each other out or if a good friend
is actually just a supportive rock no matter what. And
here's how Amanda's friend Anita responds, I think.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
It depends on the friendship. Like you and I have
had that conversation that you know, if I looked really
terrible in an outfit, you wouldn't tell me that. I
would never tell you the never to even though I'd
want to hear it, Like I'm really big on feedback,
and so I doubt that that would make you feel uncomfortable,
even though I'd like to hear it. And so, and
(17:20):
I recognize that you are sensitive, and.
Speaker 6 (17:22):
So are all my outfits terrible. It's all I've heard
in this entire conversation.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
She's been meaning to talk to you about you. We've
had this.
Speaker 6 (17:31):
We actually have had this conversation. I wrote a book
a number of years ago, and Anita wanted to read
it and I said, oh, here, it is just thinking.
I'm just passing it over and she said, how would
you How do you take feedback? I went, feedback?
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I love that so much. It got us thinking about
friendship and whether we're the feedback friend or the cheerleader friend,
but also what we like from our friends, because I
think perhaps with some friends and in some instances, you're
the feedback friend and in others you're the cheerleader friend. Jesse,
would you like some feedback from me about the kind
of friend I think you are?
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Please?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
I think you would love to be the feedback friend,
but you're too intimidated. Week Yes, you're too weak, and
so you are the cheerleading friend, but you don't mean it.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Can I ask you something? Yesterday? You said something in
a conversation and I thought, I don't think Maya realizes
how her tone came across in that, and it crossed
my mind. I go, do I tell Mia, Yes, as Maya,
And this is true about your life, Maya. You walk
around getting more feedback than anyone I know, because you're
a business owner, because of your family, because of social media,
(18:40):
because of your personality. I couldn't handle all the amount
of feedback that.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
You but I do and I don't like. I do
get a lot of feedback, but there are also a
lot of people who are too scared to give me
feedback because I don't know they work for me.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
But also like, who am I? Maybe you made that
choice to use that tone, and I just thought, Oh,
should I say something.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
I love that?
Speaker 6 (19:01):
Really?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Yes? Are you kidding me? Okay? I think you're ever known?
Have you ever known me to not want feedb Collie
hates feedback too, but I I love it. I don't
know why. I find friends who give me feedback are
the ones who I feel safest with because I try them.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
See, my thing is always I can be the feedback
friend if I feel like I have any expertise in
what the person's talking about. So if someone's talking about
an issue at work and I don't know anything about
their industry, I will listen and cheerlead. If I have
a friend I've had this a few times who is
thinking about writing a book, then I go, I wonder
(19:42):
if they want me to give them some advice, not
because I'm an expert, because I've done it before and
I've kind of waited to see what they think and
I've had the same thing where a friend has sent
a book or whatever and you've gone, do I say
something about like what I'd picked up on page seventeen
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I thought that was so interesting that Amanda was saying
very clearly whole, wasn't she to Anita, It didn't occur
to me that you give me feedback. I just wanted
you to say, this is great, you're write me.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
I don't like feedback. I mean I do.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I like it in some circumstances. But when Amanda described
she said in this interview, she said, I'm really sensitive,
and I don't think of myself as a sensitive person, right,
I think of herself.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
As like storic, practical Blochester.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
But I am very sensitive to feedback, and it's important
to me.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
I think that is.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Do you think I'm sensitive to feedback in a professional sense,
like I've had my whole career of being edited.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
And I am very very glad of that. And it
only makes.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
People because that's a form of feedback.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
He isn't one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
And I wonder if that's a little bit why I
don't really like feedback in other areas of my life.
Is I feel like I get enough of.
Speaker 4 (20:46):
It, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
We get a lot of feedback on this show because
we're public people and we're in the world, and people
are say, I don't like the way you said that,
I don't like you know, you should have said this,
and I read it and I take it on, and
so I feel like I get a lot of it.
Speaker 7 (20:58):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
I don't want feedback from my friends, like if I
specifically ask for it, like what should I do in
this situation or me? Or what bag should I buy?
Or what do you think I should do about this?
Then yes, and I have a wise counsel that I
will ask those things to you too, obviously in that council,
You're right.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Because that I do not like driving solicited feedback. I
agree you. No, I can confirm. I think that feedback,
if it's unsolicited, becomes advice. An advice that's not asked
for can feel like pressure, and I think that that's
the worst thing you can do in a friendship. It
(21:34):
can really damage a friendship, is to give unsolicited advice.
Feedback to me is different because advice is like, here's
what I think you should do. Feedback to me is
you might like what you just said Jessie, I clearly
wasn't aware, because I don't think I was trying to
be a bitch. I'm never trying to be a bitch.
But feedback is, hey, you might not realize how that
(21:55):
came across. When you said that, I'd be like, oh,
thank you for telling me that.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
So we have a group chat and there's like fourteen
of a cent it and a friend recently put in
an issue that she was having at work, right and
it was a very very specific issue, and everyone jumped
in it So funny because everyone's, you know, so busy
with their jobs and it's two o'clock on a Tuesday,
and all fourteen people jumped in there and they were like,
you go, go that is not their take it to
the union. You call the Prime Minister. He's got to
(22:22):
hear about Like, we just escalated and escalated and escalated.
If that had been a situation, yes, and a lot
of yeasing, a lot of hearts. I'm pretty sure there
was a strong arm like lots of emojis. Maybe there
had been and not in the situation, but you know,
maybe there was someone who kind of went, well, I
can see the bosses point of that's not what she
was looking for. She was looking for the bosses' point
(22:43):
of view. She needed fourteen women to go they don't
value you. Yeah, that's what we do. And that's when
you walk into a restaurant or drinks or cocktails, there's
a gaggle of women and you'll often hear a shriek,
and that shriek is a cheerleading friends because they're like,
there's just an energy that women get. And we've talked
about this before that the women Cops shared a lot.
(23:05):
You cop shpped just because you're a woman in the world,
there are very few spaces where people'll just cheer you
on for being you. And I think that's the beauty
of having like a close knit female group.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
We're in a group, Holly and I with a friend
who's going through breast cancer treatment at the moment, and
there's so many random people from her life in that group,
everyone from I think her mother to just all different
people from her life. And it's very funny because the
pure point, there's two points of that. One is for
her to be able to convey information to us as
a group instead of having eight million conversations. But then
(23:35):
it's pure purpose for us is to be able to
be cheerleaders. Yeah, and it might be you go girl.
This week it was funny. Everyone just posted a funny
picture of where they were just to amuse her or
each other because she'd started radiation. And that is a
classic case. But then it's really funny. I was in
a work group chat as well where someone asked for
(23:59):
feedback in a channel of thirty one people no, and
it was like.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
And I think me is really good at this.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
And one of the things I asked man for feedback
on sometimes is how to give like another. So a
friend is making terrible decision after terrible decision, whether it's
about relationship or something in their lifestyle or their job
or whatever, and you can see the pattern because you've
been around them a long time as a cheerleader friend, right,
I see my job as being always you're the place
where they fall like and that's okay, that's your role,
(24:27):
and you always go it's okay, babe, it'll be fine,
we'll work it out.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Feedback.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Friend is the one who's going to do the call out, right,
And is it possible.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
To be both those people at once?
Speaker 1 (24:37):
It is because you've just got to read not what
you think needs to happen, but what your friend needs
from you in that moment, which is what Jesse did
with the person who just needed advice. I know that
when I'm often in an elevated state of outrage or
indignation or feeling very hurt about something, what I need,
I'll go to the person, or I'll keep going until
(24:58):
I find the person who will match my same level
of indignation, outrage, devastation, disappointment, whatever, not someone who will
try to give me a d different point of view.
That could be what I would need. If I'm genuinely
puzzled about something like you know, I might say how
should I handle this? Or did I come across really
(25:19):
badly in that conversation? But my worst trait is that
I give too much unsolicited advice. Sometimes you just need
to be let them queen, let them find the queen
of you both laughing, I'm the queen of unsolicited advice
and unsolicited feedback, particularly about what you both are wearing. Also,
But that's but that's because.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Yeah, I think I'm a bad person, you know, I
reckon that. The takeaway here too, is that if you
have a friend who is never in any context your cheerleader.
Then that's a big red flag. Yeah, it's like you
can be both. Absolutely, you can be a full cheerleader.
You can't be a.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Fool because I'm also in my defense, I'm a big cheerleader.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
You're a massive cheerleader. That's why you get away with it.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Okay, good After the.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Break, Australia's biggest influencer drama just got a whole lot messier.
It's our very juicy all.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Or Nothing one unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes
every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
Follow the link in the show notes.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
To get us in your ears five days a week.
And a huge thank you to all our current subscribers.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Friends, this segment isn't all or nothing. You either know
everything about Anna Paul's very bad week, you're deep on
Mikayla Tester's TikTok, and yeah, you have some feelings about Attis.
I think that's how you say it.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
Did any of those words make sense to you, Mia Friedman.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I vaguely know who Anna Paul is. Yeah, I think
she's an influencer. Does she have an only fans account?
Speaker 3 (26:55):
She's one of the biggest Only Fans creators in the country.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
I tried to get her to come on no filter.
She's impossible to reach. I didn't even say no, she
just didn't reply for a year.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Very famous. If you are deep in this rabbit hole,
you also suddenly know the ins and outs of Australian
lottery laws.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Okay, Can I just ask one question about the fame
we have discussed before? How one of the things about
our fragmented world? As you say, she's very, very famous.
Like could she walk down the street in the middle
of Sydney.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
She would be swarmed, Right, your daughter Holly would probably
if you cornered her, she would go yeah, I noel, Right,
is she.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Famous with who's who's her demographic?
Speaker 3 (27:30):
I would say young people?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
And what she famous for like on.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
TikTok At this moment, I'd say she has about six
and a half million followers on Instagram probably similar and
she is one of the biggest only Fans creator.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
What does she post about? Because only fans I understand
to be mostly sex.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Sexually content, but she's also very like wholesome, Like she
posts really normal stuff. I think one of her most
viral videos is her doing like a dance.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
So she's got different brands.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
Brand as well for like younger women.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
So when you say younger, do you mean like women
in their twenties or like I would say, like sixteen year.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Olds, I would say like early twenties, like young.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Right, And I like her because she's pretty. Is she
financially successful?
Speaker 3 (28:14):
So her brand is kind and relatable?
Speaker 4 (28:18):
Okay, okay, got it? That was her number one crime.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Does she sell anything?
Speaker 4 (28:25):
Well, that's your brand. You'll also in trouble.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
So obviously, obviously the only fans is her big thing.
If you think of it like a funnel, then the
big bit is like she gets the TikTok, she gets
Instagram audience, and then ideally people are going to pay
for her only fans. And in the last week she's
lost one million followers on TikTok, so that's a big deal.
You two are like most in Australia. If you don't
know who Anna, Mikayla or an Attus is, you don't
(28:48):
know what platform they live in, and you certainly don't
have time to watch a nine minute video full of allegations,
a bunch of which we cannot today legally.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Air I tried to read it in When we were
researching this, I tried to read a story about it
that was on Mamma Mia Whole. I think you did too. Also,
I'm not much the wiser.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
It's really hard because it's like you need to understand
the characters, the background. But I'm going to do my
very very best.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
So okay, because like everything this is, it's really a
philosophical discussion about ideas. We're just using these people as pawns.
Let's start with Anna Paul. Okay, So we talked about
the fact that her brand is kindness, relatable, big, big stuff.
Then over on the other side we have Michayla. Mikayla
and Anna Paul been very good friends since they were fifteen.
(29:32):
For a few years, Mikayla dates Attis. Who is Attis?
Great question, Anna Paul's brother, Okay, Okay, now they break up?
Speaker 4 (29:40):
What does he do?
Speaker 1 (29:41):
No? Sorry, no, no, no, no follow up?
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
But Mikayla yep is also very big on only fans, very.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Big following similar kind of vibes.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Very similar vibes.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
A little over a week ago, Mikayla posts a story
on Instagram. Maya, I want you to read what that
story says, I'm gonna give it to you here. It's
a bit in bold, please read it.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
If you have to incentivize people to buy your exclusive
website by running cash giveaways so your underage followers bend
tend to hopefully win one thousand dollars, you're basically running
an illegal lottery and taking advantage of children. It's gross.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
So for a portion of the Internet that was explosive,
I saw that novel, that's fine. I'm lacking context to
who's doing.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
What, Why? How are we exploding children with a lottery.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Here's how the children are being exploded with the lottery.
Everyone immediately knew this was a dig at Anna Paul.
It was a dig at Annapaul because a few hours
before she had posted.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Oh so that's called a subtweet. Subtweet when you don't
mention someone, but everyone knows what ever talking about.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Because she had posted a link to her only fans,
and what she does is she says, come to my
only fans, I'm giving away money, so subscribe and then
pay to subscribe. Pay to subscribe, which I think is
like sixteen bucks or something. Come subscribe to my only fans,
and then for some lucky fans. I'm going to give
you five hundred one thousand. I'm just going to give
you money. Right, you're allowed to do that. I don't
(31:03):
think you are well. I've gone deep on lottery laws,
and yeah you can, as long as it's less than
three thousand dollars. I had to do it. It's like
people do this all the time, like a version of it,
like and it's pretty transparent. But anyway, a few days later,
Mikayla uploads a nine minute video.
Speaker 7 (31:19):
It's way easier to hate me for calling her out
when she's wrong than accepting that the Anna you guys
love and idolize so much she never existed. You don't
know her.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
You don't know her like I know her.
Speaker 7 (31:29):
You have never met her, and if you have, it's
nothing more than a five second sulfie. These people that
watch her don't know the Anna that I know. They
know the other Anna, the one she wears when the
camera starts rolling. I can't blame the parasocials, because I
too would do the same for someone that I looked
up to. But my experience with Anna was a lot
different to all of you. Mine was a real experience.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
So this is Anna's ex sister in Laura Cent correct.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Correct, yep. So do you want the headlines from the
nine minute video?
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (31:55):
What did she do?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (31:57):
So what's the Anna that she knows?
Speaker 1 (31:59):
Well?
Speaker 3 (31:59):
Firstly, Anna Paul claims to be very body positive, but
apparently years ago she was at an event and a
fan came up and gave her a hug, and this
fan was plus size and when she walked away and
a Paul complained to Mikayla, oh, she was so fat
and sweaty.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Number one. That's not good.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
It's not good. It's also completely unverified.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
Exactly who knows. Maybe she said it, maybe she didn't.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Number two, and this is a big one. Anna Paul
claims that she grew up broke. It is part of
her story. It is part of the narrative that she
sort of sells on Instagram and TikTok that she grew
up with not a lot as a kid. And now
the reason she wants to make all this money on
OnlyFans because now she'd be rolling in it, is that
she wants to take her parents on holiday, she wants
to buy them houses, all of that, and Mikayla says,
(32:43):
you did not grow up broke. You had a house
on the water with a pool, and you were upper
middle class, right. And the third thing is this lottery
claim thing. She just says your Instagram, a lot of
your content is aimed at young, young, young people.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Because you can't post sexually explain. You can't even have
a nipple out on Instagram or on TikTok.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
So we all know that only fans creators are using
Instagram and TikTok as advertising for their only fans. What
Mikayla's claiming that Anna Paul is doing is trying to
attract a bunch of young people and then getting underage
people to go to only fans. Only fans does have
very strict guidelines about who can sign up.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
I have another dumb question about this, isn't it probably
two different follower groups, Like, aren't probably most of Anna
Paul's Only Fans followers male and probably most of the
TikTok followers are female. So isn't it that you don't
necessarily need to cross pollinate.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
You're just capturing all the mask Except Mikayla's claim is
if you're saying to people in a cost of living crisis,
I'm going to give away money. Then suddenly you've got
someone subscribing to your sexually explicit content for sixteen dollars,
who's a single mother who really just needs a thousand
bucks on it.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
But that's on her, that's on the person who decides to,
you know, spend Sea exactly essentially by a lot try ticket.
And that's not illegal? Is it ethical? If she's channeling
essentially the people who follow her on these quote mark
safe platforms or g rated platforms and sending them to.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Her only fans, what do you think?
Speaker 1 (34:23):
I think there's worse to see on the internet if
you've got access to a credit card and you can
pay sixteen dollars to maybe see her boom. Yes, I
don't think they're a very strict guy shocking thing in
the world. It's not that strict because I had to
join Only Fans when I was interviewing a creator last
year and to post picture on my feet. Yeah, I
(34:45):
was a bit confused about where Only Fans was. And
it's not an app, it's just a website essentially, and
you do have to whatever. It's tricky, it's not very
user friendly. But if the worst she's talking about is that,
because remember you meant to be over a certain age
to be on TikTok or you know whatever, and they
can pay six what they might typically but boobs, how
(35:06):
explicit is the content under that and you can see
a lot worse on the internet for free.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
I actually think those other two claims are probably more
brand damaging because they press two very specific buttons. The
body positivity one, as Jesse's pointed out, is impossible to verify, yeah,
but very effective because what that claim does is it
puts a seed into the minds of everyone who loves
Anna Paul and who maybe is meta in an event,
and who has felt that Anna Paul sees them as
(35:32):
beautiful no matter what size they are. Maybe she was
mocking me all along. It's a very effective brand damaging
claim because it's no way of proving it wrong and
it goes to the heart of her appeal. And the
other one pushes a button that we love to push
in Australia, which is about class, which is you know,
classless Sali blah blah. No, it's like who's rich, who's poor?
Who should feel that way? What makes you rich? It's
(35:54):
a conversation that Australians love. So I actually think that
those two claims are probably more powerful.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
I read Anna Paul's response to this, and I thought
it was very measured. She didn't talk about the lottery thing,
like she completely didn't talk about that, but she did
talk about the details that she might have said something
about a fan being sweaty or fat. She said she
would never call anyone fat, but she might have said
that someone was sweaty. And she said, when you're in
a line hugging like one hundred people, you know, sometimes
(36:23):
I have to get a wipe and wipe my shoulder
because people are sweaty. Sometimes people would probably walk away
and say, and a port was sweaty, because sometimes I
get sweaty. So she explained that in a way that
seemed plausible. And then the broke thing. Can you say
what she said, Jesse, because I thought this was interesting.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Too, the broke response because she uploaded that like a
seven eight minute video, and the broke thing was really interesting.
She said, when I said I grew up broke, that
is my experience. That is how I felt. When I
can hear my parents talking in the kitchen that the
budget for the groceries that week is thirty dollars, it
makes me feel broke when we can't afford school uniforms.
It makes me feel broke When I am eleven and
my friends can afford something and my parents can't, That
(36:59):
makes me feel broke.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
What I think is so interesting about that is makes
me feel broke. And this idea about poverty or being
broke is a feeling. It's not necessary objective. I mean
it's both. It is. You know, there's a poverty line, clearly,
but the idea of it being a fear.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
That has been widely mocked, the idea like TikTok is
now going I feel broke and making a big joke
of that. What I think She ended that by basically
saying I never said I was the most broke, and
there are always going to be people who are less
well off.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Yeah, I thought that was reasonable.
Speaker 4 (37:34):
So we can't, like, what do we want?
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Do we want to see a parents pay slips?
Speaker 2 (37:37):
No? But come on, Like, I agree with all that
and empathy and kindness, et cetera. But if you're going
to make it part of your story that you grew
up working class and you didn't have things and you've
always wanted to be but you did actually grow up
in a house by the water with a pool. I'm sorry,
I don't think she shouldn't have done that. We're never
gonna for sure, It's just two people going against each.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
I have literally only heard about this woman today, so.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
That if you can feel your brain cells as they
just evaporate. I think what's interesting about this is that
the influencer taking on influencer playbook is an old and
very well used one, because like why is she come
out and done this? Like why because she's trying to
protect the kids from being lots.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
At the end of her video, Mikayla says, I'm posting
this because I care about children and young adults being
conned by her, and I thought that is not why.
So the reason this is so big is because, as
we know, with TikTok, you will go viral faster than
anywhere else. We're talking twenty two to twenty three million views,
millions of likes, the death threats that both of these
(38:48):
women would be copying right now. If the end goal
is to get more subscribers to their only fans, maybe
that would work. But the conclusion I've made is that
Makayla and attis this guy who sounds awful like her
allegations are really serious against him. There's clearly been a
big falling out.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
But that's not his sister. Like if he's a crazy.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Please, that's not his sister. But if I'm Kayla and
I do an explosive video about Attis, who firstly never
heard of him, Secondly he's a man, you're not gonna
get nearly as much traction. The interest here is two women,
two only fan stars, and guess what. The Internet has
images of them both in a bikini and they're gonna
post them everywhere and they're going to go back and forth.
(39:30):
And the drama and the heat and the energy. It's
like when I was talking recently about that wrestling documentary
as just wrestling, and so it's all like all of
this heat and momentum. It might look like fun for
a minute, but I watched Anna Paul's video and she
was saying this is going to kill someone. Like this
stuff where you pick up where you go, Anna Paul
is trending on the algorithm. I'm gonna pick my phone
(39:51):
up and do a take on Anna Paul.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
All of that is sick virality of canceling.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Yeah, yeah, And I just look at it and go
this is not fun. This is sinister.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Before we go. It was a big week at the Grammys.
It was one of the youngest, most female, most exciting
Grammys I watched. I mean, the ceremony was nuts. It
was three hours and forty five minutes. I didn't watch
all of it. I watched a lot of it on
fast forward, but the performances were We unpacked all of it,
including some unsolicited feedback from me about the Red carpet.
(40:27):
Everybody from Taylor to Doci to Chapel Roan to Gracie Abrams.
There was some very exciting things on the Red Carpet.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Boiler out me I has some feedback for Taylor Swift's hair, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
I do. As always, there'll be a link in the
show notes. You know you want to hear us talk
about that, so go ahead and listen now.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
Massive thank you to all of the out louders for
being here with us today, and of course to our
team for putting it together.
Speaker 4 (40:51):
We're going to be back in your ears tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Sending love to you, Ruth.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Yeah. Shout out to any Mum and me A subscribers listening.
If you love the show and you want to support us,
subscribing Tomma Mia is the very best way to do so.
There's a link in the episode description.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Pay Do Be Repent content
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