February 16, 2025 • 32 mins
In a world where screens dominate and schedules overflow, how do we help our kids (and ourselves) stay emotionally grounded?
Today, world-renowned parenting expert Steve Biddulph AM (author of the bestseller "Raising Boys") shares game-changing insights from his new book "Wild Creature Mind". He reveals practical tools for helping children navigate their emotional landscape - from identifying where feelings live in their bodies to building genuine resilience against schoolyard bullying.
If you've ever worried about how modern life is affecting your family's mental wellbeing, this episode is your roadmap to reconnecting with what truly matters. Steve offers simple yet powerful techniques to help both parents and children find calm within the chaos of everyday life.
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Hosts: Tegan Natoli, Annaliese Todd
Guest: Steve Biddulph
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to
this glorious mess. We're embracing the chaos together, ditching the judgment.
I'm Analys Todd, single mother to ten and twelve year
(00:35):
old boys, and most days I feel like a wild
creature spinning off my axis. Oh can't wait to understand
a little later. What on earth that means? I'm taking
to totly. I'm mom of three and I know we're
a few weeks into term one this year, but I'm popping.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
My class three class chats. Cherry. I'm in three class chats.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
So I went from one with the twins, and then
I went from two beds and now they're all in
separate classes. So yay for me. That's a lot of
note it.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
It's so many you would miss all of them.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, that's a great seque tegues because today we're talking
about how busy life is with the appointments, the commitments,
the mental LOADO.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So WhatsApp chats, females.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I think we're becoming numb to complaining. It's just life now, Yes,
and when someone says you should do mindfulness to make
you my present like, it actually makes you feel more
stressed and irritated. Yes, I'm not getting any of my
mindfulness in all my exercise. That to the list exactly.
But have you ever wondered about the part of you
that's deep inside, that little intuition that I don't have time.
(01:44):
I'm going to make time after today. It's that essence
that makes you you and knows what it wants and
who it is, and it surfaces up from time to time. Yeah,
I think that's probably my problem with that. You know,
those deep enough feelings so to speak, Mine are usually
like packed away somewhere and then they, you know, they
fly to the surface and get on with the next Hello,
(02:07):
Well lucky, we have a brilliant guests today, Steve bit Off,
renowned Australian parenting expert and author of Raising Boys. He
has a new book out called Wild Creature Mind. And
this is right up my alia at the moment. It's
all about how to quell the impact of our crazy,
busy world and the impact that it's having on our
brain and reigniting that wild, real part of ourselves again.
(02:32):
And I want to know all about what the wild
part of ourselves is, the wild creature. Tegus, you are
in for a wild ride. You're going to absolutely Oh,
pardon the pod. It's always intended. That's coming up a
little bit later, Tegus. But first, here's what's lighting up
my group chat. So you would have seen it. It
was everywhere in our algorithm last week, but we thought
(02:55):
it warranted a chat today because this one hits on
some very complex mama bear nerves. So an Adelaide mum
stormed into her child's year eight classroom to confront her
child's bully. I'm going to play you a grab now,
but this is a little bit different. You can hear
the actual news report that features some of her explosive behavior.
(03:17):
We thought it was important to show some audio of
what she did when she entered the classroom, but then
also follow up with her thoughts afterwards.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
A mother's wild tirade leveled at her daughter's UA classmate tonight.
The woman responsible is telling her side of the story.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
I don't want my daughter to be another statistic. I
don't want to have to bury it my child.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
She admits what she did was wrong, but says she
simply snapped after watching her daughter fall victim to school
yard bullies for years.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
She was crying.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
She was devastated that this child had told her to
go and hang herself.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
She says that was the final straw, prompting her to
track down the student in a classroom at St. Paul's College.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Gillis planes I did everything in my power as a parent,
and so did my husband to make sure that our
daughter was safe.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So she was at her wits end, as she describes. Okay,
it's a lot.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
It is a lot.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Look, you know, I can't judge anyone's situation because I'm
definitely not in it. But yeah, I like, that is
a frustrated mum. That is a mom. That is a
mum who feels like she had no other option. Do it, Like,
is it the right option? No, obviously not. But you know,
I heard people chatting about this the other day and
(04:45):
other people what they'd done in similar situations with issues
with their kids and bullying, and a lot of people
were saying similar things in terms of you know, the
school will say you have to go to the police,
and then the police will say we can't do anything
about it. It's a school incident. So you know, parents
(05:07):
are chasing their tails and in a time I think
where it's very hard for kids at the moment with bullying,
and actually, you know, we say, oh, you know, speak about,
speak about tell us tell talk to someone, but then
there's actually not a whole lot that's done on the receiver.
And it also because of technology, it doesn't just stop
(05:28):
at the classroom, yes, exactly, which we've talked about before.
But the other thing is that a teacher actually commented
when we shared this in mum Mere Family Facebook group,
and they said, the tricky thing is teachers cannot communicate
to parents about what they're implementing, so legally they're not
allowed to say, well, we had this conversation with the
bully and XYZ and this is the punishment. They're actually
(05:50):
not allowed to share what they're doing behind the scenes.
And I don't know this schools, yeah obviously and what
they've done. But that's just one teacher's perspective. I found interesting.
I can understand the internal mama bear rage totally, Like
when you're like, that is such an innate feeling where
(06:12):
it's just not reasonable and you literally would run over
hot fire, yeah, to protect your child. I get that.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
What I struggle with is I don't believe it's appropriate
for an adult to threaten violence and abuse a child.
Agree that is that's my and I think also it's
a little bit traumatic for the rest of the class
as well, you know, like if you wanted to be
a real creep you you know at the school gate,
(06:41):
be like.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
You talk to my kid again where people you're in
big trouble.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
But like this was like, I am, but that's what
I mean by the when I said, this is a
woman who like in her mind, she's like I've tried everything,
I've tried to do things by the book and she
just lost her mind for a minute. Doesn't make it excusable, No,
But as you said, it's that mama bearing you and
if that's triggered.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
God knows what we do. You know, like it's a
hard place to be in.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I've and I don't know if she tried this, but
my thought was, like what would I do. I would
try and arrange a meeting with the other bully's parents,
Like if it was that, surely that's already been tried
to be done. Every parent's different sometimes the communication, Like
I know, I'd be happy to sit down. But then
some other parents aren't receptive. You know, we're intense, so
(07:29):
we'd be like, let's be like, let's sit down face
to face. Steve Bitoff is one of Australia's most respected
and influential psychologists. He has written books of the ages.
We all know him, we all love him. His latest book,
(07:51):
Wild Creature Mind, is fascinating and we can't wait to
get into it. So step in the book you talk
about how we've lost touch with the animal part of
our minds. What does that mean? And what is our
wild creature mind?
Speaker 5 (08:07):
Okay, that's the big question. I'm really happy to explain it.
Almost everyone, somewhere in their memory they know that our
brain has two halves, and there's two sides to our brain.
And in fact, if you hold a brain, it's almost
like if you've ever peeled an orange for your kids
(08:28):
on a hot day and shared the orange between your children,
it just pulls apart. You know, you get the orange,
It just pulls into two halves, and the brain is
exactly the same, just comes right apart, except for a
little band down the bottom that joins together. And so
people began asking, well, how come you know, why have
(08:49):
two brains, and it turns out it's very very helpful
to have these two sides because one side does talking,
and so I'm talking to both of you, and so
that's the left side of my brain that does talking.
And so my left brain is sending words to you,
and you're sending word it's back to me from your
(09:11):
left brain, and so that's going on. But at the
same time, I'm watching your face and you're listening to
my voice and looking at my face. And so the
other side, the wild creature side on the right, is
doing things like does this guy look the real deal?
(09:31):
Is he trustworthy? I am? I safe? Is this making sense?
And the rhythm of how our words go and the
timing of them and the little changes in our faces.
I can see tigans nodding a little bit and you've
gone sort of thoughtfulness. That's the wild creature side, and
that stuff is really important. That's the whole dance of
(09:53):
a conversation depends on that. And you know, talking to
our kids depends on that. We sort of get into
rhythm with them. And that's a complicated business, but luckily
it's completely on automatic because the right brain is like
an incredible supercomputer, that handles all of this and just
does it automatically. So it's like the left brain is
(10:15):
good with words, but really not that smart, really, but
the right brain is amazing. It's one hundred times smarter.
Handles everything that's complicated in reading our environment and reading
our body, remembering things that happened ten years ago. That's
all going on over here.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
On the right side. Yeah, on the right And would
you say, it's like it's almost like that gut feeling.
It's the essence. It's like what makes you you.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
Yes, Now, it's a couple of parts to what you
just said. It's it's the gut feeling. Because the remember
that the left brain has the words, but the right
brain doesn't have words, and so it's only got one
way of getting its message across, which is to talk
through the body. And so what we call gut feelings
(11:02):
or hunches or misgivings, things like that, that's actually our
right brain sort of shouting to us saying, you know, hey,
you know, notice this wake up.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
That is our wild creature mind. It's not a gut yeah, well,
it's sending the message to the gut. It is a
gut feeling, but it's coming from the From the Wild Creature.
Yeah is the right hand sign? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (11:25):
Okay, So that's it in a nutshell. And in the book,
I put lots of animals because I was wanting kids
to actually read the book. And so, so if a
tiger is in the forest and it's been tracking a
deer all day, you know, and it's finally caught up
with this deer in the late afternoon in a little clearing,
and it's just about a pounce on the deer, and
(11:47):
suddenly the birds that have been shittering away all day
suddenly go completely quiet. Suddenly the birds stop. The tiger
like he's in mid poor rays will just freeze. A
tiger doesn't think to itself, doesn't think, you know, the
birds way quiet. You know, it's automatic brain to body freeze.
(12:09):
Every animal it ever was has this, you know, the
brain talks to the body. And then we came along
as human beings and we got kind of trapped in
words and lost that sort of feeling. But it's still
there if you talk to little kids. I talk to
my little granddaughters and say, you know, when you think
of that friend, what happens in your body? And they go, oh,
(12:29):
I feel bouncy and nice. When you think of that friend,
what happens they say, oh, you know, be kind of bigittery,
And their mum will say to me, yeah, that that
friend's a bit full on. And so little kids understand
it straight.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Away, and even even negatively, like when little kids feel anxious,
they'll say, oh, my tummy feels sick. They innately have
that connection to their wild creature mind. And then as
we get older and busier, and in the book you
talk about the modern world, and you know how everyone
feels so busy in algorithms and we're so much busier
(13:06):
in life that we're actually losing touch more and more
with that wild creature mind.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
Analyse. That's that's exactly the main thing is that my
reason for writing this book, Like I was, you know,
I'm seventy one. I was ready to just stop go
kayaking on the river. I live in northern Tessamania and
be a quiet old grandfather. But this thing came along
as this massive anxiety epidemic and it is hammering this generation.
(13:34):
It's not a small thing. It's one in three kids
at any time has anxiety. Wow, and it's yeah, it's
just awful. It's awful to see if you're a parent.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I've got three kids, and one out of my three
has anxiety, so that's a true diseiastic in my household.
I'm really loving your perspective because I think as parents
like you know analse you know, I know we're parenting
in a very different generation to you, Steve, But there's
so much focus on the words we use and how
(14:04):
we communicate verbally to our children, which I love for
us because we're learning so much that our own parents
didn't necessarily learn with that. Are we kind of neglecting
that that physical in tune, like you know, connecting the
wild creature of mine with our kids were So we're
so you know, focused on having that conversation with them
(14:28):
and saying the right words and making sure they feel
safe to communicate back with us. But maybe we need
to start focusing this communication on feelings and physical attunement.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
I suppose all of those things that we learned in
my generation and yours about listening to kids feelings and
even just talking to them, Yeah, people didn't even talk
to kids. Yes, that's all wonderful and it's a huge,
huge lip forwards the wild creature idea of bringing the
body into it is kind of the final big step
(15:03):
that makes it all come together and work, because the
thing with anxiety is that we try and solve it
in our left brain. If you've been awake at nighttime
and you can't sleep when you're worried, your thoughts go
round and round.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Oh, that's our left brain keeping us up.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
Yeah, and so and even the psychology world got caught
in this cognitive behavior therapy sort of fad that was,
you know, I'll talk you out of feeling awful. Yeah,
you know, I've come down quite hard on that in
the book. Because you can't think your way out of anxiety. Yeah,
what you have to do is go over to the
(15:42):
other side of your brain and you go down to
your body and our Can I sort of teach you
a little? Would you like to try a little.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yes, definitely. And so this we can do with ourselves
and our kids still exercise great.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
Okay, Yes, remember those books like Jane Os and about
one hundred two hundred years ago, people used to talk differently,
and they used to kind of use language much more precision.
And they say this the thing they say, they say
something in me yearns for the sea. Yeah, And or
something in me wants to give him a good smack
(16:17):
in the mouth or or whatever. And you say something
in me, it means it's not just I'm not going
to run away to the sea, it's just something in
me wants to.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
And so when we're anxious, and if if I used
to wake up in the middle of the night just
so anxious, heart racing, and this, if you say I
am anxious or I am angry, it feels very total yes.
And whereas if you say you change the words and
you say something in me is anxious, okay, and you
(16:51):
can teach this to your children, something in me is
angry or something in me is upset. It's like there's
this a bit more spaciousness inside you.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
It doesn't totally encapsulate you are that yeah feeling. Yeah,
like the whole of me is you know, completely in
you know, captive by this emotion. It separated like that exactly.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
You got a little bit of sense of distance from it.
And then the next obvious question is, okay, well where
is it? And say it might be so, okay, it's
down sort of in my belly somewhere, and it's a
bit of a kind of clenching in my belly. Now,
when you try to figure it out, you're kind of
getting your left brain to try and put words to
(17:34):
what's happening that your right brain is saying. So you're
starting to team up your brain properly. And your first
guess is never ever correct. You say, oh, it's a
kind of a journey in my tummy, and you feel
down there is that right, and it's sort of, oh no,
it's not quite right. It's more like a clench. And
(17:55):
as you put the words to it, this amazing thing happens.
And you can see this happen in your children when
you sit with them with they got an upset, and
you can do it with yourself. When you pay attention
to your wild creature, it's like it starts to come
out of the bushes and it's sort of used to
being slapped away and ignored, but it sort of starts
to come out into the clear side. And it's a
(18:18):
part of us. And if we're kind to it and
we're interested in it, then it will start to do
what it needs to do. And so maybe that sensation
will come up into your chest, or it'll come up
into your throat. I have a very dear friend who
was bereaved after sixty years of marriage, such huge thing,
(18:38):
and he said it felt like a stone in his throat,
like a solid stone. And we were talking and I said, look,
there's these things that I've been learning about. Would you
like to try it? Because he said he felt really stuck.
He wasn't feeling He knew about grief. We know about
grief these days, but it just felt so blocked. And
(19:01):
when he made space for the kind of sensation that
was happening in his throat and gave it a bit
of room, made it welcome. It just came straight up
into this big sound of wailing, crying, and it was
the most moving thing I think I've ever experienced in
my life. But it could have gone to a psychologist
(19:24):
for twenty sessions.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
And just talk talk talk. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
Yeah, Yeah. It's a direct, very easy and very profound
thing to do. And kids love it and they'll you know,
and especially if you just take that time and sit
with them, it helps them. Then they can use it
on their own when they need to, you know, when
they're at school, when they're grown up and we're we're
(19:50):
not around anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So you talk about obviously This is such an important
tool for negative feelings like anxiety and trauma and feeling
it in your body, naming it and releasing it. In
terms of the positive feelings as well, because you talk
about embracing the you know that makes me feel bubbly
or I feel like a warm glow in my tummy
or my chest. Why is it important to do both
(20:13):
the positive and the negative feelings?
Speaker 5 (20:15):
If you're realistic about it, the world is just a
dreadful place.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Oh god, it is, and it's very grim.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
And it's not looking like it's getting better. It looks
like our kids are going to live through some very
tough times now. We have to give them the tools
to everything we can to handle that. And one of
the things we know is that in the wild creature,
there is no time, there's no future or past. A
wild animal doesn't fret about what's happening next. If it's
(20:44):
in its burrow, it completely chills out. When the sun
comes out and it's out in the sunshine, it's absolutely happy,
whether it's a bird or whatever it is. And so
when we're able to be absolutely joyful and happy, then
we restore our strength, and we restore our optimism and
(21:05):
so because we know we're going to have to fight
for climate action and have to fight for justice in
the world in all kinds of ways, and so we
need to have lots and lots of inner strength. And
that's not to do with the kind of muscular, hard,
tough thing. It's to do with I know what love
feels like. I know what joy feels like. When that
(21:27):
you know, when that's there, I just breathe it in.
And you know, if you can people listening and think,
you know, being held by a parent who just adores
you and holds you safe in their arms, and what
that feels like in your bones, you can just feel that,
to have an adult who's looking down at you and
holding you safe. That feeling is what you need to
(21:52):
remember all through your life. And so so of the
bodily sense of I know me, I know what's what,
I know my boundaries. If someone asks me something, I
don't just say yes, I go down inside and I
think I don't feel good about that. And you say,
you know, you know, someone says could you you know
(22:12):
they ring up? Could you cook ten cakes for the school?
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Oh my gosh, are you in my WhatsApp chat?
Speaker 5 (22:18):
Steve actually our whole training, especially for women even still, is.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
To go to Woolworths.
Speaker 5 (22:34):
Down inside, there's something saying, no.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yeah, I get a diversion feeling when.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
My wild creature is running in the opposite direction of
the cake store. I love that. So it's about it.
It's about filling our wild creature minds cup and keeping
that full because it's going to be depleted so much
that it's important to tune in to those positives so
that we have I guess almost that resilience to be
able to deal with the harder times.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
Yes, I mean the right The wild creature mind is
where love lives. Where is It's not beautiful, Yeah, it's
not a it's not an abstract idea. It's if you
can feel it in your eyes when you think of it.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
What are some practical examples, And I guess it's tricky,
but you know, obviously looking at younger kids and then
older kids, if we notice that they're slipping out of
their wild creature mind because they're hyper focused on school
and sport and you can see that disconnect, what are
some practical things that we can say to them to
reconnect and bring them back to the wild creature mind.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
Yeah, there's a story of Ravi, the little boy in
the book, and he was what happened. Ravi was about eight,
and he had an older sister who was about twelve,
and one morning, getting ready for school, their mum heard
this big blow up and the big sister saying, you know,
just rack off, leave me alone, stop bugging me, and
she grabbed a school bag and stormed out. Sounds right, yeah,
(23:58):
so far, so familiar, and Ravig into his bedroom slams
it or and their mum thinks, you know, okay, I
know my son. If he has a bad start to
the day, nothing is going.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
To go right.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
Yeah, And so she goes into his room, sits on
the bed, and she does something which is really important.
She just completely drops any sort of feeling of like
we've got to get to school or anything like that,
and she kind of goes into her wild creature mind
and just goes into this soft, receptive sort of place,
(24:32):
which is hard to do but it's so important. Sits
there with him and says, wow, Ravi, that didn't sound
all that great, and he's and he's like no, and
she says, so you're feeling pretty awful now, and he
says yeah. She says, RAVI, whereabouts does it? Where is
(24:52):
it in your body? And straight away so you know,
it's this big type not in my tummy. And she
doesn't say anything leading you know what I mean, It
doesn't kind of take it anywhere. She just says, okay,
So there's a big, kind of big not in your tummy.
And he goes quiet and she just sits there, and
(25:14):
then after a minute or so, she says, you know,
what are you thinking? He says, I'm remembering ice skating
when it was my birthday. We went ice skating and
I was holding hands with her and we were and
we were and yeah, and you can just feel it,
can't you. And it's his big sister. There've been mates,
(25:35):
but she's twelve now and she doesn't always want to
be around this little eight year old boy. And there
are some griefs in life that you cannot take away,
it says, part of growing up. And it's like she's saying, like,
oh jeez, you know, but the incredible thing happens. Rabi says, anyhow, Mom, look,
(25:55):
I better get to school, and he's off. He just
kind of needed to go.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
There and have that memory and connect with the memory.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
Yeah, And instead of becoming a little boy that goes
around hitting people, can stay with his sadness. Yeah, and
she'll have, you know, a word to his big sisters
say look down and completely forget him. You know is
your brother. But for the most part, it's just she's
she hung in with him. His wild creatures sorted it
(26:27):
out and off and off they went.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
So the practical thing there was it's about acknowledging and
seeing what their experiences and what it is at the time,
and then asking where it is in their body, like
what is that? That's the two sort of steps. I
feel like we as parents are so into quick fixes
like if our kids are upset or if you know,
like it's okay to be fine well like or what
(26:51):
you know, solution solution, solution. But I think this is
so nice because it's like, Okay, let's feel it. And
then it's not about Okay, what are you feeling? How
can I undo that for you? It's not about can
I fix it? It's like no, no, just feel it,
sit with it, yeah, lean into it, rather than let's
get rid of it or let's remove it, or let's
put something on top of it cover it up. Yeah.
(27:13):
I love that it's like, no, that by doing that,
by leaning into it and sitting with it, will actually
help resolve itself, like that is the fix. And you
can say that to a young kid or an older kid,
like where is it in your body? That to me,
I was thinking, oh, there must be two different approaches,
but it's the same. It's the same how you would
feel it for yourself. Where is it in my body
(27:34):
as an adult, And you'd say that to a four
year old, to a ten year old, to a teenager.
It's the same language.
Speaker 5 (27:40):
Yeah, it's And also you can model it in the
sense of like they say, you know, you're allowing me
to go to this friends. I had this conversation yesterday
with a friend of the teenage daughter. I'm happy for
him for her to sleep over at this friend's house
and this other friend's house, but there's this new friend
that she's got, and I don't feel comfortable for her
(28:02):
to go to stay overnight and I don't know why.
And this was a dad, and I was saying, it's
okay to just say I just don't feel right. I
don't know why. Yeah, you know, someday a teenage daughter
is going to be with a bunch of friends in
Belgium or somewhere, you know, and they're getting into a
car and they've all had way too much to drink,
(28:23):
and she's going to be on the brink. You know.
It's one o'clock in the morning. She's in the brink
of getting into the car, and she'll stop and say, no,
I don't feel right.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, it just does.
Speaker 5 (28:31):
Listen, guys, I'm going to go back to the hotel
room and sleeep it off. And so we're giving them
life saving tools.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
And so in essence, it's it's it's naming it, it's
leaning into feeling it, where it is with it, sitting
with it, and acknowledging it. Yeah, that's the wild creature mind.
I've just summed up your book for you. She's available
for I'll come on the junkets with you.
Speaker 5 (28:58):
Please, Very good minds. And the animal thing with kids,
it's a true it's like a metaphor, but it's also true.
And so with an anxious teenager who's you know, real
hammered with it, we'll think of, Okay, it's like a
little creature inside me that's just vibrating with fear because
of what I've been putting it through. My job is
(29:19):
to comfort it. Yeah, and so how can I come
How can I take better care of the little, you know,
little furry cub that's inside me. Other times it's like
a big panther walking along beside you. That that can
you know, will fight your corner and can can feel,
you can feel incredible anger towards what's been happening in
(29:40):
some of the stories in the book of girls being
mistreated where they just got they didn't go from anxious
to calm. They went from anxious to incandescent rage. And
that was but they were comfortable with that. That was
a strong feeling. And so yes, it's coming back, taking
too that thing. If you feel something going on, treat
(30:01):
it like you would treat a little creature in there.
Welcome it, tended, and it'll.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
A scared little puppy, a lost puppy.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
No, my wild creature of mind is like a lioness.
I've decided. Oh yeah, she's proud, she's fearless. Yes, yeah,
she's there to protect the pride.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
Switch into hamster.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Is that your wild creatures?
Speaker 5 (30:27):
It changes all the time.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Okay, great, I'm glad we can have a zoo. We
don't have to just pick one. It depends where.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
It depends where we're at as to what our creature is.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Steve bit Off, we have absolutely adored chatting to you,
and thank you so much for sharing this research and
this this knowledge with the world to help make it
a better place. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
It's a really, really wonderful perspective.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
And if you would like to check out the Wild
Creature we will pop it in the show notes where
we can, we can grab the book Wild Creature Mind
by Steve Off ten out of ten, ten out of
ten highly recommend. Thank you so much, Steve.
Speaker 5 (31:03):
Love to everyone who's listening or watching, and to both
of you guys, thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
So I loved that I'm going to try and practice
being more in tune to my body feelings rather than
my mind feelings. Yeah yeah, and sitting with it, giving
it space, giving it a minute, rather than shoveling shit
on it, burying it like trauma. My biggest takeaway and
(31:32):
what I loved is just how universal this is and
how we can use this in conversations with kids, and
it applies to all ages and stages. But it's like,
what's going on for you? What is that feeling where
is it? And I think there's so much benefit in
starting this young, you know, if we can teach our
kids this rather than get to our old age and go, oh,
(31:53):
let's start this now, like how much easier life will
be and just stay connected with their body and their
decisions and their feelings their world. Creature. Thanks for listening
to this glorious mess. We hope that you really got
so much out of this episode as we did and
love it. If you would leave us a rating or
a few.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Or let us know what your wild creature mind is.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Is it an animal? Is it a drop? Is it
a lion? Like analyst?
Speaker 1 (32:19):
We will see you next week.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
This episode was produced by Tom Lyone and audio production
by Jacob Brown. See you next time,
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to
this glorious mess. We're embracing the chaos together, ditching the judgment.
I'm Analys Todd, single mother to ten and twelve year
(00:35):
old boys, and most days I feel like a wild
creature spinning off my axis. Oh can't wait to understand
a little later. What on earth that means? I'm taking
to totly. I'm mom of three and I know we're
a few weeks into term one this year, but I'm popping.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
My class three class chats. Cherry. I'm in three class chats.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
So I went from one with the twins, and then
I went from two beds and now they're all in
separate classes. So yay for me. That's a lot of
note it.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
It's so many you would miss all of them.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, that's a great seque tegues because today we're talking
about how busy life is with the appointments, the commitments,
the mental LOADO.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So WhatsApp chats, females.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I think we're becoming numb to complaining. It's just life now, Yes,
and when someone says you should do mindfulness to make
you my present like, it actually makes you feel more
stressed and irritated. Yes, I'm not getting any of my
mindfulness in all my exercise. That to the list exactly.
But have you ever wondered about the part of you
that's deep inside, that little intuition that I don't have time.
(01:44):
I'm going to make time after today. It's that essence
that makes you you and knows what it wants and
who it is, and it surfaces up from time to time. Yeah,
I think that's probably my problem with that. You know,
those deep enough feelings so to speak, Mine are usually
like packed away somewhere and then they, you know, they
fly to the surface and get on with the next Hello,
(02:07):
Well lucky, we have a brilliant guests today, Steve bit Off,
renowned Australian parenting expert and author of Raising Boys. He
has a new book out called Wild Creature Mind. And
this is right up my alia at the moment. It's
all about how to quell the impact of our crazy,
busy world and the impact that it's having on our
brain and reigniting that wild, real part of ourselves again.
(02:32):
And I want to know all about what the wild
part of ourselves is, the wild creature. Tegus, you are
in for a wild ride. You're going to absolutely Oh,
pardon the pod. It's always intended. That's coming up a
little bit later, Tegus. But first, here's what's lighting up
my group chat. So you would have seen it. It
was everywhere in our algorithm last week, but we thought
(02:55):
it warranted a chat today because this one hits on
some very complex mama bear nerves. So an Adelaide mum
stormed into her child's year eight classroom to confront her
child's bully. I'm going to play you a grab now,
but this is a little bit different. You can hear
the actual news report that features some of her explosive behavior.
(03:17):
We thought it was important to show some audio of
what she did when she entered the classroom, but then
also follow up with her thoughts afterwards.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
A mother's wild tirade leveled at her daughter's UA classmate tonight.
The woman responsible is telling her side of the story.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
I don't want my daughter to be another statistic. I
don't want to have to bury it my child.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
She admits what she did was wrong, but says she
simply snapped after watching her daughter fall victim to school
yard bullies for years.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
She was crying.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
She was devastated that this child had told her to
go and hang herself.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
She says that was the final straw, prompting her to
track down the student in a classroom at St. Paul's College.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
Gillis planes I did everything in my power as a parent,
and so did my husband to make sure that our
daughter was safe.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So she was at her wits end, as she describes. Okay,
it's a lot.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
It is a lot.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Look, you know, I can't judge anyone's situation because I'm
definitely not in it. But yeah, I like, that is
a frustrated mum. That is a mom. That is a
mum who feels like she had no other option. Do it, Like,
is it the right option? No, obviously not. But you know,
I heard people chatting about this the other day and
(04:45):
other people what they'd done in similar situations with issues
with their kids and bullying, and a lot of people
were saying similar things in terms of you know, the
school will say you have to go to the police,
and then the police will say we can't do anything
about it. It's a school incident. So you know, parents
(05:07):
are chasing their tails and in a time I think
where it's very hard for kids at the moment with bullying,
and actually, you know, we say, oh, you know, speak about,
speak about tell us tell talk to someone, but then
there's actually not a whole lot that's done on the receiver.
And it also because of technology, it doesn't just stop
(05:28):
at the classroom, yes, exactly, which we've talked about before.
But the other thing is that a teacher actually commented
when we shared this in mum Mere Family Facebook group,
and they said, the tricky thing is teachers cannot communicate
to parents about what they're implementing, so legally they're not
allowed to say, well, we had this conversation with the
bully and XYZ and this is the punishment. They're actually
(05:50):
not allowed to share what they're doing behind the scenes.
And I don't know this schools, yeah obviously and what
they've done. But that's just one teacher's perspective. I found interesting.
I can understand the internal mama bear rage totally, Like
when you're like, that is such an innate feeling where
(06:12):
it's just not reasonable and you literally would run over
hot fire, yeah, to protect your child. I get that.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
What I struggle with is I don't believe it's appropriate
for an adult to threaten violence and abuse a child.
Agree that is that's my and I think also it's
a little bit traumatic for the rest of the class
as well, you know, like if you wanted to be
a real creep you you know at the school gate,
(06:41):
be like.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
You talk to my kid again where people you're in
big trouble.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
But like this was like, I am, but that's what
I mean by the when I said, this is a
woman who like in her mind, she's like I've tried everything,
I've tried to do things by the book and she
just lost her mind for a minute. Doesn't make it excusable, No,
But as you said, it's that mama bearing you and
if that's triggered.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
God knows what we do. You know, like it's a
hard place to be in.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I've and I don't know if she tried this, but
my thought was, like what would I do. I would
try and arrange a meeting with the other bully's parents,
Like if it was that, surely that's already been tried
to be done. Every parent's different sometimes the communication, Like
I know, I'd be happy to sit down. But then
some other parents aren't receptive. You know, we're intense, so
(07:29):
we'd be like, let's be like, let's sit down face
to face. Steve Bitoff is one of Australia's most respected
and influential psychologists. He has written books of the ages.
We all know him, we all love him. His latest book,
(07:51):
Wild Creature Mind, is fascinating and we can't wait to
get into it. So step in the book you talk
about how we've lost touch with the animal part of
our minds. What does that mean? And what is our
wild creature mind?
Speaker 5 (08:07):
Okay, that's the big question. I'm really happy to explain it.
Almost everyone, somewhere in their memory they know that our
brain has two halves, and there's two sides to our brain.
And in fact, if you hold a brain, it's almost
like if you've ever peeled an orange for your kids
(08:28):
on a hot day and shared the orange between your children,
it just pulls apart. You know, you get the orange,
It just pulls into two halves, and the brain is
exactly the same, just comes right apart, except for a
little band down the bottom that joins together. And so
people began asking, well, how come you know, why have
(08:49):
two brains, and it turns out it's very very helpful
to have these two sides because one side does talking,
and so I'm talking to both of you, and so
that's the left side of my brain that does talking.
And so my left brain is sending words to you,
and you're sending word it's back to me from your
(09:11):
left brain, and so that's going on. But at the
same time, I'm watching your face and you're listening to
my voice and looking at my face. And so the
other side, the wild creature side on the right, is
doing things like does this guy look the real deal?
(09:31):
Is he trustworthy? I am? I safe? Is this making sense?
And the rhythm of how our words go and the
timing of them and the little changes in our faces.
I can see tigans nodding a little bit and you've
gone sort of thoughtfulness. That's the wild creature side, and
that stuff is really important. That's the whole dance of
(09:53):
a conversation depends on that. And you know, talking to
our kids depends on that. We sort of get into
rhythm with them. And that's a complicated business, but luckily
it's completely on automatic because the right brain is like
an incredible supercomputer, that handles all of this and just
does it automatically. So it's like the left brain is
(10:15):
good with words, but really not that smart, really, but
the right brain is amazing. It's one hundred times smarter.
Handles everything that's complicated in reading our environment and reading
our body, remembering things that happened ten years ago. That's
all going on over here.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
On the right side. Yeah, on the right And would
you say, it's like it's almost like that gut feeling.
It's the essence. It's like what makes you you.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
Yes, Now, it's a couple of parts to what you
just said. It's it's the gut feeling. Because the remember
that the left brain has the words, but the right
brain doesn't have words, and so it's only got one
way of getting its message across, which is to talk
through the body. And so what we call gut feelings
(11:02):
or hunches or misgivings, things like that, that's actually our
right brain sort of shouting to us saying, you know, hey,
you know, notice this wake up.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
That is our wild creature mind. It's not a gut yeah, well,
it's sending the message to the gut. It is a
gut feeling, but it's coming from the From the Wild Creature.
Yeah is the right hand sign? Yeah?
Speaker 5 (11:25):
Okay, So that's it in a nutshell. And in the book,
I put lots of animals because I was wanting kids
to actually read the book. And so, so if a
tiger is in the forest and it's been tracking a
deer all day, you know, and it's finally caught up
with this deer in the late afternoon in a little clearing,
and it's just about a pounce on the deer, and
(11:47):
suddenly the birds that have been shittering away all day
suddenly go completely quiet. Suddenly the birds stop. The tiger
like he's in mid poor rays will just freeze. A
tiger doesn't think to itself, doesn't think, you know, the
birds way quiet. You know, it's automatic brain to body freeze.
(12:09):
Every animal it ever was has this, you know, the
brain talks to the body. And then we came along
as human beings and we got kind of trapped in
words and lost that sort of feeling. But it's still
there if you talk to little kids. I talk to
my little granddaughters and say, you know, when you think
of that friend, what happens in your body? And they go, oh,
(12:29):
I feel bouncy and nice. When you think of that friend,
what happens they say, oh, you know, be kind of bigittery,
And their mum will say to me, yeah, that that
friend's a bit full on. And so little kids understand
it straight.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Away, and even even negatively, like when little kids feel anxious,
they'll say, oh, my tummy feels sick. They innately have
that connection to their wild creature mind. And then as
we get older and busier, and in the book you
talk about the modern world, and you know how everyone
feels so busy in algorithms and we're so much busier
(13:06):
in life that we're actually losing touch more and more
with that wild creature mind.
Speaker 5 (13:11):
Analyse. That's that's exactly the main thing is that my
reason for writing this book, Like I was, you know,
I'm seventy one. I was ready to just stop go
kayaking on the river. I live in northern Tessamania and
be a quiet old grandfather. But this thing came along
as this massive anxiety epidemic and it is hammering this generation.
(13:34):
It's not a small thing. It's one in three kids
at any time has anxiety. Wow, and it's yeah, it's
just awful. It's awful to see if you're a parent.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I've got three kids, and one out of my three
has anxiety, so that's a true diseiastic in my household.
I'm really loving your perspective because I think as parents
like you know analse you know, I know we're parenting
in a very different generation to you, Steve, But there's
so much focus on the words we use and how
(14:04):
we communicate verbally to our children, which I love for
us because we're learning so much that our own parents
didn't necessarily learn with that. Are we kind of neglecting
that that physical in tune, like you know, connecting the
wild creature of mine with our kids were So we're
so you know, focused on having that conversation with them
(14:28):
and saying the right words and making sure they feel
safe to communicate back with us. But maybe we need
to start focusing this communication on feelings and physical attunement.
Speaker 5 (14:39):
I suppose all of those things that we learned in
my generation and yours about listening to kids feelings and
even just talking to them, Yeah, people didn't even talk
to kids. Yes, that's all wonderful and it's a huge,
huge lip forwards the wild creature idea of bringing the
body into it is kind of the final big step
(15:03):
that makes it all come together and work, because the
thing with anxiety is that we try and solve it
in our left brain. If you've been awake at nighttime
and you can't sleep when you're worried, your thoughts go
round and round.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Oh, that's our left brain keeping us up.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
Yeah, and so and even the psychology world got caught
in this cognitive behavior therapy sort of fad that was,
you know, I'll talk you out of feeling awful. Yeah,
you know, I've come down quite hard on that in
the book. Because you can't think your way out of anxiety. Yeah,
what you have to do is go over to the
(15:42):
other side of your brain and you go down to
your body and our Can I sort of teach you
a little? Would you like to try a little.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yes, definitely. And so this we can do with ourselves
and our kids still exercise great.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
Okay, Yes, remember those books like Jane Os and about
one hundred two hundred years ago, people used to talk differently,
and they used to kind of use language much more precision.
And they say this the thing they say, they say
something in me yearns for the sea. Yeah, And or
something in me wants to give him a good smack
(16:17):
in the mouth or or whatever. And you say something
in me, it means it's not just I'm not going
to run away to the sea, it's just something in
me wants to.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
And so when we're anxious, and if if I used
to wake up in the middle of the night just
so anxious, heart racing, and this, if you say I
am anxious or I am angry, it feels very total yes.
And whereas if you say you change the words and
you say something in me is anxious, okay, and you
(16:51):
can teach this to your children, something in me is
angry or something in me is upset. It's like there's
this a bit more spaciousness inside you.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
It doesn't totally encapsulate you are that yeah feeling. Yeah,
like the whole of me is you know, completely in
you know, captive by this emotion. It separated like that exactly.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
You got a little bit of sense of distance from it.
And then the next obvious question is, okay, well where
is it? And say it might be so, okay, it's
down sort of in my belly somewhere, and it's a
bit of a kind of clenching in my belly. Now,
when you try to figure it out, you're kind of
getting your left brain to try and put words to
(17:34):
what's happening that your right brain is saying. So you're
starting to team up your brain properly. And your first
guess is never ever correct. You say, oh, it's a
kind of a journey in my tummy, and you feel
down there is that right, and it's sort of, oh no,
it's not quite right. It's more like a clench. And
(17:55):
as you put the words to it, this amazing thing happens.
And you can see this happen in your children when
you sit with them with they got an upset, and
you can do it with yourself. When you pay attention
to your wild creature, it's like it starts to come
out of the bushes and it's sort of used to
being slapped away and ignored, but it sort of starts
to come out into the clear side. And it's a
(18:18):
part of us. And if we're kind to it and
we're interested in it, then it will start to do
what it needs to do. And so maybe that sensation
will come up into your chest, or it'll come up
into your throat. I have a very dear friend who
was bereaved after sixty years of marriage, such huge thing,
(18:38):
and he said it felt like a stone in his throat,
like a solid stone. And we were talking and I said, look,
there's these things that I've been learning about. Would you
like to try it? Because he said he felt really stuck.
He wasn't feeling He knew about grief. We know about
grief these days, but it just felt so blocked. And
(19:01):
when he made space for the kind of sensation that
was happening in his throat and gave it a bit
of room, made it welcome. It just came straight up
into this big sound of wailing, crying, and it was
the most moving thing I think I've ever experienced in
my life. But it could have gone to a psychologist
(19:24):
for twenty sessions.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
And just talk talk talk. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
Yeah, Yeah. It's a direct, very easy and very profound
thing to do. And kids love it and they'll you know,
and especially if you just take that time and sit
with them, it helps them. Then they can use it
on their own when they need to, you know, when
they're at school, when they're grown up and we're we're
(19:50):
not around anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So you talk about obviously This is such an important
tool for negative feelings like anxiety and trauma and feeling
it in your body, naming it and releasing it. In
terms of the positive feelings as well, because you talk
about embracing the you know that makes me feel bubbly
or I feel like a warm glow in my tummy
or my chest. Why is it important to do both
(20:13):
the positive and the negative feelings?
Speaker 5 (20:15):
If you're realistic about it, the world is just a
dreadful place.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Oh god, it is, and it's very grim.
Speaker 5 (20:21):
And it's not looking like it's getting better. It looks
like our kids are going to live through some very
tough times now. We have to give them the tools
to everything we can to handle that. And one of
the things we know is that in the wild creature,
there is no time, there's no future or past. A
wild animal doesn't fret about what's happening next. If it's
(20:44):
in its burrow, it completely chills out. When the sun
comes out and it's out in the sunshine, it's absolutely happy,
whether it's a bird or whatever it is. And so
when we're able to be absolutely joyful and happy, then
we restore our strength, and we restore our optimism and
(21:05):
so because we know we're going to have to fight
for climate action and have to fight for justice in
the world in all kinds of ways, and so we
need to have lots and lots of inner strength. And
that's not to do with the kind of muscular, hard,
tough thing. It's to do with I know what love
feels like. I know what joy feels like. When that
(21:27):
you know, when that's there, I just breathe it in.
And you know, if you can people listening and think,
you know, being held by a parent who just adores
you and holds you safe in their arms, and what
that feels like in your bones, you can just feel that,
to have an adult who's looking down at you and
holding you safe. That feeling is what you need to
(21:52):
remember all through your life. And so so of the
bodily sense of I know me, I know what's what,
I know my boundaries. If someone asks me something, I
don't just say yes, I go down inside and I
think I don't feel good about that. And you say,
you know, you know, someone says could you you know
(22:12):
they ring up? Could you cook ten cakes for the school?
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Oh my gosh, are you in my WhatsApp chat?
Speaker 5 (22:18):
Steve actually our whole training, especially for women even still, is.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
To go to Woolworths.
Speaker 5 (22:34):
Down inside, there's something saying, no.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
Yeah, I get a diversion feeling when.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
My wild creature is running in the opposite direction of
the cake store. I love that. So it's about it.
It's about filling our wild creature minds cup and keeping
that full because it's going to be depleted so much
that it's important to tune in to those positives so
that we have I guess almost that resilience to be
able to deal with the harder times.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
Yes, I mean the right The wild creature mind is
where love lives. Where is It's not beautiful, Yeah, it's
not a it's not an abstract idea. It's if you
can feel it in your eyes when you think of it.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
What are some practical examples, And I guess it's tricky,
but you know, obviously looking at younger kids and then
older kids, if we notice that they're slipping out of
their wild creature mind because they're hyper focused on school
and sport and you can see that disconnect, what are
some practical things that we can say to them to
reconnect and bring them back to the wild creature mind.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
Yeah, there's a story of Ravi, the little boy in
the book, and he was what happened. Ravi was about eight,
and he had an older sister who was about twelve,
and one morning, getting ready for school, their mum heard
this big blow up and the big sister saying, you know,
just rack off, leave me alone, stop bugging me, and
she grabbed a school bag and stormed out. Sounds right, yeah,
(23:58):
so far, so familiar, and Ravig into his bedroom slams
it or and their mum thinks, you know, okay, I
know my son. If he has a bad start to
the day, nothing is going.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
To go right.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
Yeah, And so she goes into his room, sits on
the bed, and she does something which is really important.
She just completely drops any sort of feeling of like
we've got to get to school or anything like that,
and she kind of goes into her wild creature mind
and just goes into this soft, receptive sort of place,
(24:32):
which is hard to do but it's so important. Sits
there with him and says, wow, Ravi, that didn't sound
all that great, and he's and he's like no, and
she says, so you're feeling pretty awful now, and he
says yeah. She says, RAVI, whereabouts does it? Where is
(24:52):
it in your body? And straight away so you know,
it's this big type not in my tummy. And she
doesn't say anything leading you know what I mean, It
doesn't kind of take it anywhere. She just says, okay,
So there's a big, kind of big not in your tummy.
And he goes quiet and she just sits there, and
(25:14):
then after a minute or so, she says, you know,
what are you thinking? He says, I'm remembering ice skating
when it was my birthday. We went ice skating and
I was holding hands with her and we were and
we were and yeah, and you can just feel it,
can't you. And it's his big sister. There've been mates,
(25:35):
but she's twelve now and she doesn't always want to
be around this little eight year old boy. And there
are some griefs in life that you cannot take away,
it says, part of growing up. And it's like she's saying, like,
oh jeez, you know, but the incredible thing happens. Rabi says, anyhow, Mom, look,
(25:55):
I better get to school, and he's off. He just
kind of needed to go.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
There and have that memory and connect with the memory.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
Yeah, And instead of becoming a little boy that goes
around hitting people, can stay with his sadness. Yeah, and
she'll have, you know, a word to his big sisters
say look down and completely forget him. You know is
your brother. But for the most part, it's just she's
she hung in with him. His wild creatures sorted it
(26:27):
out and off and off they went.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
So the practical thing there was it's about acknowledging and
seeing what their experiences and what it is at the time,
and then asking where it is in their body, like
what is that? That's the two sort of steps. I
feel like we as parents are so into quick fixes
like if our kids are upset or if you know,
like it's okay to be fine well like or what
(26:51):
you know, solution solution, solution. But I think this is
so nice because it's like, Okay, let's feel it. And
then it's not about Okay, what are you feeling? How
can I undo that for you? It's not about can
I fix it? It's like no, no, just feel it,
sit with it, yeah, lean into it, rather than let's
get rid of it or let's remove it, or let's
put something on top of it cover it up. Yeah.
(27:13):
I love that it's like, no, that by doing that,
by leaning into it and sitting with it, will actually
help resolve itself, like that is the fix. And you
can say that to a young kid or an older kid,
like where is it in your body? That to me,
I was thinking, oh, there must be two different approaches,
but it's the same. It's the same how you would
feel it for yourself. Where is it in my body
(27:34):
as an adult, And you'd say that to a four
year old, to a ten year old, to a teenager.
It's the same language.
Speaker 5 (27:40):
Yeah, it's And also you can model it in the
sense of like they say, you know, you're allowing me
to go to this friends. I had this conversation yesterday
with a friend of the teenage daughter. I'm happy for
him for her to sleep over at this friend's house
and this other friend's house, but there's this new friend
that she's got, and I don't feel comfortable for her
(28:02):
to go to stay overnight and I don't know why.
And this was a dad, and I was saying, it's
okay to just say I just don't feel right. I
don't know why. Yeah, you know, someday a teenage daughter
is going to be with a bunch of friends in
Belgium or somewhere, you know, and they're getting into a
car and they've all had way too much to drink,
(28:23):
and she's going to be on the brink. You know.
It's one o'clock in the morning. She's in the brink
of getting into the car, and she'll stop and say, no,
I don't feel right.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, it just does.
Speaker 5 (28:31):
Listen, guys, I'm going to go back to the hotel
room and sleeep it off. And so we're giving them
life saving tools.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
And so in essence, it's it's it's naming it, it's
leaning into feeling it, where it is with it, sitting
with it, and acknowledging it. Yeah, that's the wild creature mind.
I've just summed up your book for you. She's available
for I'll come on the junkets with you.
Speaker 5 (28:58):
Please, Very good minds. And the animal thing with kids,
it's a true it's like a metaphor, but it's also true.
And so with an anxious teenager who's you know, real
hammered with it, we'll think of, Okay, it's like a
little creature inside me that's just vibrating with fear because
of what I've been putting it through. My job is
(29:19):
to comfort it. Yeah, and so how can I come
How can I take better care of the little, you know,
little furry cub that's inside me. Other times it's like
a big panther walking along beside you. That that can
you know, will fight your corner and can can feel,
you can feel incredible anger towards what's been happening in
(29:40):
some of the stories in the book of girls being
mistreated where they just got they didn't go from anxious
to calm. They went from anxious to incandescent rage. And
that was but they were comfortable with that. That was
a strong feeling. And so yes, it's coming back, taking
too that thing. If you feel something going on, treat
(30:01):
it like you would treat a little creature in there.
Welcome it, tended, and it'll.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
A scared little puppy, a lost puppy.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
No, my wild creature of mind is like a lioness.
I've decided. Oh yeah, she's proud, she's fearless. Yes, yeah,
she's there to protect the pride.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
Switch into hamster.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Is that your wild creatures?
Speaker 5 (30:27):
It changes all the time.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Okay, great, I'm glad we can have a zoo. We
don't have to just pick one. It depends where.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
It depends where we're at as to what our creature is.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Steve bit Off, we have absolutely adored chatting to you,
and thank you so much for sharing this research and
this this knowledge with the world to help make it
a better place. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
It's a really, really wonderful perspective.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
And if you would like to check out the Wild
Creature we will pop it in the show notes where
we can, we can grab the book Wild Creature Mind
by Steve Off ten out of ten, ten out of
ten highly recommend. Thank you so much, Steve.
Speaker 5 (31:03):
Love to everyone who's listening or watching, and to both
of you guys, thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
So I loved that I'm going to try and practice
being more in tune to my body feelings rather than
my mind feelings. Yeah yeah, and sitting with it, giving
it space, giving it a minute, rather than shoveling shit
on it, burying it like trauma. My biggest takeaway and
(31:32):
what I loved is just how universal this is and
how we can use this in conversations with kids, and
it applies to all ages and stages. But it's like,
what's going on for you? What is that feeling where
is it? And I think there's so much benefit in
starting this young, you know, if we can teach our
kids this rather than get to our old age and go, oh,
(31:53):
let's start this now, like how much easier life will
be and just stay connected with their body and their
decisions and their feelings their world. Creature. Thanks for listening
to this glorious mess. We hope that you really got
so much out of this episode as we did and
love it. If you would leave us a rating or
a few.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Or let us know what your wild creature mind is.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Is it an animal? Is it a drop? Is it
a lion? Like analyst?
Speaker 1 (32:19):
We will see you next week.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
This episode was produced by Tom Lyone and audio production
by Jacob Brown. See you next time,
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