June 29, 2023 • 30 mins
Laura Modi is the founder and CEO of Bobbie, a company that makes baby formula and sells it directly to parents. Laura’s problem is this: how do you launch a startup in a highly regulated industry that has pretty much been a duopoly for decades?
Part of Laura’s answer is marketing, which raises another question: how do you get people to consider formula despite so much messaging that breastfeeding is better?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I just went into the world of motherhood expecting that
I would breastfeed, expecting it would be easy, and it wasn't.
I found myself feeding my daughter formula and having that
visceral feeling, that visceral feeling that I should be giving
her something better, the visceral feeling that I should feel
(00:43):
less guilty and I should feel better myself as a
mother that I'm giving her food and nutrition. But something
about me just feels bad about it. That hit me
in a way that I knew I had to do
something about it.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I'm Jacob Goldstein, and this is what's your problem. My
guest today is Laura Mode. Laura is the founder and
CEO of Bobby. Bobby is a company that makes baby
formula and sells it online directly to consumers, directly to parents.
There are a few ways to formulate Laura's problem. One
is a problem about regulation and competition. How do you
(01:22):
launch a startup in a highly regulated industry that for
decades has been largely dominated by two companies. Another way
to formulate the problem it's a marketing problem. But marketing
in kind of the broadest sense of the word. How
do you create a news story around what it means
to give your baby formula instead of, or in addition
(01:44):
to breastfeeding.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I wanted to develop a formula that US parents felt
truly proud of. I wanted to combat the feeling that
we were feeding them something that we weren't proud of,
that parents felt guilty of. And in many ways, they
were turning to an alternative solution, which was the black market.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
And what black market formula? What black market formula?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
You're talking about European black market?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Huh? What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Great question?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
What that means is that there was and there is
many sites out there that is selling infant formula to
US parents that is made and produced and seen as
infant formula in Europe, but it's not categorized as infant
formula here in the US. And a lot of parents,
I believe. The New York Times reported several years ago
(02:39):
that twenty percent of Brooklyn parents were importing from.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Brooklyn parents are as a Brooklyn parent, let me say, hey,
I was not in that twenty percent, and be weare
the worst.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
It's so good?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Why why why do people in Brooklyn think European formula
is better?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
So it's all over and the one caution I would
say is I think it is really important and also
really dangerous for us to refer to anything as better
or worse.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
How people are doing this. Yeah, but why why why?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Because the ingredients there, and the ingredients chosen to put
in formula there are often seen as ingredients of choice,
and the ingredients of the parents would deam is better.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
You start your company, you start making formula, and you
run into this fact, this FDA regulation in a very
dramatic way. What happened.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I knew it was regulated, but what I hadn't fully
consumed was that there was very little wiggle room within
those regulations to be creative, disruptive, or to at least
take a first step towards changing them.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yes, the FDA is not into creative and disruptive. It's
out there thing.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
No, two things that you'd never see come together.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
And just to be clear, this is back in twenty nineteen.
It's well before the formula shortage. We had a last
year that was in the news, but specifically just what happened.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Specifically, what happened was I could not get product made
here in the US, so I decided to go to
Germany and I made my first product in Germany. The
challenge was is that because we made it abroad, it
didn't match the regulations in the US, meaning the FDA's
rags did not see this as an infant formula here
(04:37):
in the US. So I said, you know what, let's
just put this out as a toddler formula to begin with.
That puts it into a different category and it would
serve it to non infants, and it's a great way
to start.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
And so, just to be clear, the idea is if
you call it poddler formula instead of baby formula, then
it's just like powdered milk or something. Then it's regulated
like food and has a much lower regulatory threshold.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Exactly exactly it's food.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
There was one major problem though, is that it actually
was infant formula, and it would have been infant formula
in Germany.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
And you knew that, right. You were just trying to
sort of do a regulatory arbitrage.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Basically, I was looking at this as a way to
be able to get high quality formula into the hands
of American parents in a way that I felt was
categorized differently.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Yeah. Disruptive, yes, but this.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Was a safe, high quality infant formula that was being
fed to millions of babies in another continent, and our
continent would not have categorized it as infant formula. And
ten days in to a very small pilot where we
were only selling it to folks within our city in
San Francisco, I want to say there was ninety three customers.
(05:52):
The FDA called, not just a phone call. They came
to visit our warehouse and I received a phone call
from our warehouse manager, and that warehouse manager says, the
FDA's here. And I in a state of disbelief because
in all of our research, the FDA, until you've reached
(06:12):
a certain size, and until there truly is a concern,
they're not showing up, Like.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
How do they even know you exist? Right? You said,
ninety three customers?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Ninety three customers. It's a high quality infant forum.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
There was no safety concerns, no issues reported, but there
was some press, and that press highlighted that the company
was the new infant formula company in the industry. Now
for a regulated body who regulates all infant formula, this
can also be a shock because where did it come from?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Who is this company? And at our warehouse they were met.
I was met with very friendly.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Officials in full uniform who very quickly said you can't
do this and shut us down.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
And it was heartbreaking.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
It was both heartbreaking and it was the first moment
of just very humbly realizing that just because an industry
needs to be disrupt did doesn't mean that you can
just bulldoze your way through. And there's many ways to
approach disruption and change. And it really was I think
(07:20):
it was one of those first moments I was like, Okay,
this is going to be a journey. This is this
isn't my previous history coming from tech, this is going
to be different, and it was.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I mean, the way the way you talk about it, it
sort of reminds me of when Uber was starting out
and there were all of these rules in different cities
about UH that that limited who could provide taxi service basically, right,
and clearly to me, those rules just benefited taxi services
at the expense of customers, right, And I feel like
(07:50):
that in a way was a model for what you're doing, Like, ah,
there's this duopoly, it hasn't changed in decades. Come on,
we're just going to do this and figure it out later.
And the FDA basically said, no, you are not. That
is not the way this one.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
That's exactly what happened. Exactly what happened.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yeah, and you know there's I think when you go
through these things as well, Like I was looking around,
and I think for any parent listening to this, you
either are or you've heard of someone importing European formula
off a black market. And wherever there's a black market,
there tends to be an opportunity. And that's exactly as
a parent at the time, importing black market European formula,
(08:30):
You're almost looking at this going, well, it's happening in
many ways, but it's not being done in a way
that's meeting consumers where they're currently at. And this seemed
like a different approach to something that was rampant and
already happening all over the country.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
So the FDA's basically shutting you down. You're a brand
new company and the FDA is saying you cannot be
a company in the way that you were planning to
be a company.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
What do you do?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So you go through an identity crisis for a hot minute,
you go, who am I what's this about?
Speaker 3 (09:04):
How do we tackle it. Why did I do this?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
But also how else would I have done it? Because,
as we all have come to learn, there was no
other options for a new company to be born within
the country. That is why it duopoly exists, and that
is why this industry is so concentrated. There was no
Yellow Pages of infant formula manufacturers here in the US.
(09:30):
If I decided to make baby food, I would have
had a choice of two hundred manufacturers to call, But
I chose a hard regulated product because I believe that
truly needed to change. The challenge was that the industry
was not set up for a newcomer to enter, which.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Is why there were no newcomers.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
It's a high barrier to entry.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
But one of the things that really opened doors was
that the national shutdown that we had from the FDA
got public attention. And when I say public attention, it
got more headlines than us launching the company.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Right, it's great press. It's almost the case been shutting
you down?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Right?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
So did you find that?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Like?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
So?
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Wait, so the FDA comes in, they basically shut you down,
and then suddenly does everybody want to buy your formula
that you could no longer sell?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
It was half and half. It was a lot of curiosity.
A lot of curiosity was coming my way on just
hold on, what happened?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Why did this happen?
Speaker 2 (10:29):
And it started peaking people's interest for this, Maybe is
an industry to pay attention to.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
And then you're right.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
The other side of it was, oh, my gosh, I
want to get your formula. What can we do to help?
And the peaking interest in the curiosity came from two
different groups that helped me figure out what path I
was going to go on. The first group was an investor,
multiple investors, who saw what I was trying to do,
saw the market opportunity and also how regulated it was,
(10:57):
and called me and said, I really believe in what
you're doing, and I think you have the persistence to
keep going.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Can I give you a few million dollars to keep going? Now?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
That was the kind of phone call you want when
you're in the middle of an identity crisis, trying to
figure out where to.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Go, and when you just got shut down and know
that you're not gonna have any revenue coming in the
door for some time.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, that's right, no revenue and yet a lot of
capital to get to that next phase. The second phone
call was the one that really sealed a deal. And
that phone call was from the only and the one
contract manufacturer that outside of the duopoly in the US
makes infant formula for the country. And that phone call
(11:38):
was a turning point because I tried for two years
leading up to it for them to make my formula,
and I was interesting.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
So this company, it's perrygo Am I saying it the
right way. Err, I read it, so you're saying, and
just to be clear, so they are a US manufacturer
and they make lots of sort of generic formula, right
like if you buy formula Costco or whatever, they make
that formula. And you're saying you had been trying to
get them to make your formulney and you were not
(12:07):
worth their time. Basically, yes, they weren't really calls. We
don't know what they were thinking, but we only know
that they wouldn't return your calls. Yeah, correct, And then
they called you. And then when this news came out,
they called you.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
There you go, Jacob.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
That's exactly how it went down. And it's so funny
when people are like, would you have done it differently?
I'm like, that phone call wouldn't have come in. But
keep in mind they also needed to change their business
model as well, because they were used to making formula
for store brands, and here I was, I had a
unique formula and I wanted someone to make it. So
that was also them going, huh, would we approach this
(12:42):
differently and also take on a new incomer and do
chaking on a new business model as well. So I'll
never forget that call. And one of the most important
things that hit me during that moment was there was
a lot of support to be able to get us
to the next level, not because they saw it as
an opportunity, but because they saw how we handled the shutdown.
(13:07):
And it is something I canntinue to remind the team
of too. Turbulence may come very often, but it's how
you handle that turbulence. And we handled it with a
level of grace and managed our message and hung up
our hat and said, yeah, this is how we approach
the market. And it hasn't landed, so we're going to
take a different path. And we weren't defensive, we didn't
(13:28):
push back, we weren't defiant, and that landed, and that
landed in a way that the respect that came from
both investors and future manufacturers.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
It landed tell me, well, tell me how your formula
is different than that, you know big formula brands in
the christ country.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
So we've designed her based on and I refer to
as as a her. We've designed her really inspired by
European formula. So the first thing we did from a
recipe standpoint was say, how are recipes designed for European
infant formula? And that means you start to look at
the levels. So we are the only infant formula that
(14:09):
mirrors European nutritional standards. And put another way, there's no
US infant formula where their recipe would pass the bar
set for European infant formos. So that's the first thing
the recipe. The second thing that makes us different is
the choice of ingredients. We've chosen to leave out ingredients
(14:31):
like corn syrup, use organic grass fed milk and not
conventional milk, leave out palm oil, which is a leading
ingredient towards constipation for a baby, So making it easier
to digest by leaving out things like palm oil and
putting in things like coconut oil. So between the choice
(14:52):
of our fat blend ingredients and the recipe which mirrors
European nutritional standards. That's ultimately the differentiator that we hang
our hat on.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
So I have two kids and we gave them formula.
We gave them. I think it was similar, just one
of the big American brands, Like should I have given
them some European style formula? Body didn't exist? But if
it should I have done that instead?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Absolutely not. Okay, and this, oh, I love that you're
asking this because I always I always have a note
by my desk to make sure that this is a
reminder of something to repeat, because I don't believe that
there is anything any such thing is a bad formula.
And I truly mean that. And I don't just mean
that because I want to make sure that people don't
(15:44):
see Bobby as coming across as elite or differentiated that way.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
I truly believe that whatever.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Product is both available affordable is the right formula for you,
and your child will have the same chances as every
other child out there, and I do I truly truly
mean that.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Well, that's a relief, thank you.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
I appreciate that your kids will be fabulous and they
will have the same chances as everyone else.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
I'm a fan. So, I mean, there's something really interesting
here and I've been trying to think of the right
way to talk about it. Well, there's a few things.
One let's just say MABBY is way more expensive than
most formulas. Right, It's like a fancy, high end formula.
And you're saying, it's not like gonna make my kids smarter,
(16:36):
happier or whatever. So so what's the pitch.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's a it's a great it's a
great point to raise, and I'll like underscore again what
I said. I believe parents need choices, not just choices
when it comes to infra formula. I think across anything
that people consume, there needs to be choices because you
got preferences. Now, at the end of the day, milk
is milk, but some parents, and I would be one
(17:02):
of them, I want to make sure that the milk
that I'm feeding them is preservative free.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Organa grass fed, conventional dairy is.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Still going to give you the nutrients your baby needs
to grow and develop, but on a spectrum they are different.
Now that's just using one example, and you can point
to any industry where whether it's a fabric in the
retail and clothing industry, or whether it's something within cosmetics
(17:33):
where people choose to have something that is slightly richer
in collagen than a moisturizer that doesn't at the end
of the day, it is moisturizer and it's going to
give you what you need.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yeah, my kids are now at the age where they're
super into skincare, and so I appreciate that point too,
because you see the different care well, you see the
difference in price for sure. Exactly in a minute, we'll
talk more about marketing in the biggest sense of the word,
(18:03):
and also about what happened to Bobby during last year's
big formula shortage. Now back to the show, So let's
talk about Like, marketing is really interesting to me here, right,
So let's talk about marketing, because you know there's one
(18:25):
when I first started thinking about this, I was like, oh,
maybe it's just marketing. But then like I objected to
that word just right, because I feel like marketing is
a big deal, right, Like whatever we tell ourselves stories
in order to live, you know, Joan didon and just
when you will look at look at say Simolac. I
(18:48):
think we gave our kids Simolac a can of Simolac,
one of the big brands, and then a can of Bobby.
Like they're telling such different stories, right, Like Similac came
out in what the nineteen fifties, right, this era of
like better living through chemistry was kind of the you know,
the fremailing belief. And when you look at Simolac, it
looks like it looks very much like a medical product.
(19:12):
It actually says number one brand fed in hospitals on
the can, and there's like these acronym for some thing
that I don't know what it is. And then you
look at the Bobby can, it's like a line drawing
of a cow, right, And like the biggest letters are organic, right,
And so it's like one is medicine, science and then
other was like nature cows. Am I reading that?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Right?
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I mean is that part of sort of what you're selling.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
I like that you underscored that it's not just yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I really think that, especially because this is formula and breastfeeding.
It's for which itself. Like when you look at the
amount of narrative around breastfeeding versus formula versus the amount
of science, like it's so much narrative, it's so much marketing.
The sort of breastfeeding versus formula story, and and that
story makes people, especially women in my experience, moms feel
(20:06):
so bad when they can't breastfeed, right, And I feel
like the marketing piece, the storytelling piece of what you're
doing fits with that, right.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
It does. Look there's a huge universe out there.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
You're like, ah, whatever, I mean, it's all bs. People
shouldn't be guilty about it. But it's hard for that
person to really judge if you haven't been in the
other person's shoes. Yeah, and there is going to be
many people who will hear this, and we've been on
the journey with them where in their postpartum state and
in that state of is this right for my child?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
How am I feeling? Do I feel guilty?
Speaker 2 (20:41):
You grow up dreaming of breastfeeding and then you realize
that you can only put out two ounces. That's heartbreaking.
This is not like, Oh I chose that granola bar
over this one. This is a completely different moment in life.
And again, my job is to make sure that we
play such a radically centrist position. Unfortunately, the war of
(21:04):
breastfeeding versus formula got to a place where it was
pretty bad, and I think we all need to start
realizing that it's not about what your child is fed,
that we need to just all accept how they're being
fed and just say, your baby's being fed and that's
a good thing. And we have to And that's the
whole goal that I have in our messaging, is that
(21:25):
you just need to feel good that you are feeding
your child something, to be proud of that, whatever it
is for you. And by the way, some other parents
who doesn't need that message might be totally fine and
proud of whatever they've chosen to feed their child. And
there should be no shame, no pointing fingers, and we
need to accept that. And I am very, very proud
to not look at our branding, our marketing as a
(21:48):
sales tool, but rather as a culture changer. And again
I know that there's going to be and there has
been many people go ugh whatever, And yet until you
are in someone's shoes who's truly going through that, do
you really understand the importance of changing a narrative.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
So we got to talk about last year's formula shortage
right this moment. Last year, it was big national news
when one of the big factories that makes formula in
this country shut down, and suddenly there was not enough
baby formula in America.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
I mean, you couldn't write this story.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
And every time I just hear these these moments back
to back like we're doing today.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Oh, I get PTSD. Oh this all went down.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
So what happened was that it was February seventeenth. I
remember so clearly, sitting at my desk and I saw
the news that this recall was happening for a large player.
And because I have spent the last five to six
years researching, understanding the industry and seeing what needs to change,
I knew within sixty seconds of reading that that recall
(22:59):
went down. I knew that this was going to cause
a national shortage. And I remember turning to the team
and I was like, here's what is going to mean.
It means that for what period of time the rest
of the players are going to have to feed America. Yeah,
and within one week post that shortage, our customer count doubled.
(23:20):
Now for a small players just entered to see your
customer count double that quickly.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
On one side, yes, I.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Think as a CEO, you're sitting there going, oh my god,
this is great.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
We're taking off right.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Well, if you are selling software. It would be your dream,
right because you can sell as many licenses for the
software as you want. You could sell a billion of them.
You can just get more service space you give it in.
But you're not selling software, right, You're selling a thing,
and presumably you can't just keep doubling the amount of
it that your manufacturer is making for you.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
And we're also not just selling anything.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
We're not selling a piece of furniture where if someone
comes and it says we're sold out, they go, ooh, I.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Want that more. It's so cool.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
We're selling an essential good that feeds babies, and that
essential good it's not cool to be out of infant formula.
It's not cool to be out of your baby's food.
And that's where being a mom plays into this as well,
because what it means to solve for these moments, you
get a different level of empathy and relatability to what
(24:20):
all American parents are going through. And my head of
growth sharene an exceptional woman whose job is to grow
the business, was the person who sat in front of
me and said, Laura, we are growing too fast. And
here's the problem. We are depleting inventory faster than our
ability to keep up, and if we keep depleting product,
(24:45):
we won't be able to continue and reliably serve those
that have already made a commitment to us. And in hindsight,
it was not a hard decision. Within twenty four hours
of that, we made the decision to stop growing the
company and to just give a promise to those who
signed up for Bobby that we will continue and reliably
(25:05):
be able to serve them.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
So, even though we.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Kept making product, that product was for those who made
a commitment to us already, and we were not about
to grow too fast in a world that we had
no control in and then run out one day.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
So do you like just flip a switch so there's
no sign, Like, do you turn off your website? Like,
what do you actually do?
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Practically? That's exactly what we did.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
We you know, you go to your product page to
go buy something, and we had a letter on the
page that basically said, we have a customer promise that
if you sign up for us, we sign up for you.
And right now we are serving seventy thousand babies across
this country and during the shortage we want to continue
and reliably serve them, and right now we can't accept
(25:50):
more customers. At the time, I thought, maybe this will
go on for a month.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
You just don't know what it was.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Seems like a long time. It was seven months.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Seven months, we turned our side off seven and it
felt like a lifetime.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
So you made it. You made it through that period,
you turned your site back on. You're back to grow
in the formula business. Now, what's the next thing you
want to do?
Speaker 2 (26:19):
I think as we continue to grow, we will be
given the permission by our consumers to say, maybe we
should start looking at other ways that we can tap
into the.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
World of nutrition.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
So while I think we've started with the first one
of the hardest, most regulated products, I'm excited for the
innovation that's happening right now to say, how else can
we look at nutrition, especially in those first thousand days
for a child, and also looking at nutrition for a mom.
So I'm excited to see where Bobby takes our next
(26:49):
steps to solve for a broader nutritional set.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
We'll be back in a minute with the light Now
back to the show. Okay, let's do the lightning round.
It's just a bunch of semi random questions that I
hope will be fun for you. You used to work
(27:18):
at Airbnb. Give me one secret hack for renting a
place on Airbnb.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
I would filter for SuperHost good will. It will truly be.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
That nine or ten that you're looking for, and you're
not rolling the dice.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
And to be clear, SuperHost they're identified on Airbnb. There
are people who have hosted for a long time, gotten
very good reviews.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Correct, they have a badge, they're dedicated, they're fantastic. And
if you're not a super host and you're listening, go
become a SuperHost.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
I read that you used to be a day trader,
and you know, I was an economics reporter for ten years,
and if there's one thing I learned, it's don't be
a day trader. Yeah, are you're wrong? I also read
that you did well as a day trader. So were
you lucky? Were you good?
Speaker 3 (28:09):
What? Like?
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Give me one thing on day trading?
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Oh my god, I love that.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
And the one advice I would have is don't day
trade if you can't watch the market. And what I
mean by that is I worked on Google Finance. I
was staring at the I was staring at stocks all day.
I was staring at the ups and downs. I was
watching the news that related to the ups and downs,
(28:35):
and essentially I was in it. And when I hear
of people just jumping in and day training, but then
they're like out of it for a few hours, it's
dangerous And yeah I was.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
I was in it.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
You're Irish, gon do a couple of Ireland questions. Besides
your family and friends? What do you miss most about Ireland?
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (28:59):
The banter, Well, the banter, the crack, my right to
call it crack? What is crack?
Speaker 3 (29:05):
What is crack?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
I know? And I hope you never cut this one
piece that says Laura misses the crack.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
What I mean by that is that it is banter.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
It's the fun, it's the levity, and it's the hospitality
of Irish humans, even if they're strangers, you will always
have fun.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Is Guinness overrated or underrated?
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Extremely underrated, stunning, It's nutritional and unfortunately you can't pour
a good pint here in the US.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Guinness is like formula for grownups.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Again, you can't quote me on that, but maybe I'm
winking you.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
No, I definitely am going to Laura Mody is the
founder and CEO of Bobby. Today's show was produced by
Edith Russolo, edited by Sarah Nix and engineered by Amanda K.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Wong.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
You can email us at problem at Pushkin dot fm,
or you can find me on Twitter at Jacob Goldstein.
I'm Jacob Goldstein and we'll be back next week with
another episode of What's Your Problem MHM
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I just went into the world of motherhood expecting that
I would breastfeed, expecting it would be easy, and it wasn't.
I found myself feeding my daughter formula and having that
visceral feeling, that visceral feeling that I should be giving
her something better, the visceral feeling that I should feel
(00:43):
less guilty and I should feel better myself as a
mother that I'm giving her food and nutrition. But something
about me just feels bad about it. That hit me
in a way that I knew I had to do
something about it.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I'm Jacob Goldstein, and this is what's your problem. My
guest today is Laura Mode. Laura is the founder and
CEO of Bobby. Bobby is a company that makes baby
formula and sells it online directly to consumers, directly to parents.
There are a few ways to formulate Laura's problem. One
is a problem about regulation and competition. How do you
(01:22):
launch a startup in a highly regulated industry that for
decades has been largely dominated by two companies. Another way
to formulate the problem it's a marketing problem. But marketing
in kind of the broadest sense of the word. How
do you create a news story around what it means
to give your baby formula instead of, or in addition
(01:44):
to breastfeeding.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
I wanted to develop a formula that US parents felt
truly proud of. I wanted to combat the feeling that
we were feeding them something that we weren't proud of,
that parents felt guilty of. And in many ways, they
were turning to an alternative solution, which was the black market.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
And what black market formula? What black market formula?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
You're talking about European black market?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Huh? What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Great question?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
What that means is that there was and there is
many sites out there that is selling infant formula to
US parents that is made and produced and seen as
infant formula in Europe, but it's not categorized as infant
formula here in the US. And a lot of parents,
I believe. The New York Times reported several years ago
(02:39):
that twenty percent of Brooklyn parents were importing from.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Brooklyn parents are as a Brooklyn parent, let me say, hey,
I was not in that twenty percent, and be weare
the worst.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
It's so good?
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Why why why do people in Brooklyn think European formula
is better?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
So it's all over and the one caution I would
say is I think it is really important and also
really dangerous for us to refer to anything as better
or worse.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
How people are doing this. Yeah, but why why why?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Because the ingredients there, and the ingredients chosen to put
in formula there are often seen as ingredients of choice,
and the ingredients of the parents would deam is better.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
You start your company, you start making formula, and you
run into this fact, this FDA regulation in a very
dramatic way. What happened.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
I knew it was regulated, but what I hadn't fully
consumed was that there was very little wiggle room within
those regulations to be creative, disruptive, or to at least
take a first step towards changing them.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yes, the FDA is not into creative and disruptive. It's
out there thing.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
No, two things that you'd never see come together.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
And just to be clear, this is back in twenty nineteen.
It's well before the formula shortage. We had a last
year that was in the news, but specifically just what happened.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Specifically, what happened was I could not get product made
here in the US, so I decided to go to
Germany and I made my first product in Germany. The
challenge was is that because we made it abroad, it
didn't match the regulations in the US, meaning the FDA's
rags did not see this as an infant formula here
(04:37):
in the US. So I said, you know what, let's
just put this out as a toddler formula to begin with.
That puts it into a different category and it would
serve it to non infants, and it's a great way
to start.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
And so, just to be clear, the idea is if
you call it poddler formula instead of baby formula, then
it's just like powdered milk or something. Then it's regulated
like food and has a much lower regulatory threshold.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Exactly exactly it's food.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
There was one major problem though, is that it actually
was infant formula, and it would have been infant formula
in Germany.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
And you knew that, right. You were just trying to
sort of do a regulatory arbitrage.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Basically, I was looking at this as a way to
be able to get high quality formula into the hands
of American parents in a way that I felt was
categorized differently.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Yeah. Disruptive, yes, but this.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Was a safe, high quality infant formula that was being
fed to millions of babies in another continent, and our
continent would not have categorized it as infant formula. And
ten days in to a very small pilot where we
were only selling it to folks within our city in
San Francisco, I want to say there was ninety three customers.
(05:52):
The FDA called, not just a phone call. They came
to visit our warehouse and I received a phone call
from our warehouse manager, and that warehouse manager says, the
FDA's here. And I in a state of disbelief because
in all of our research, the FDA, until you've reached
(06:12):
a certain size, and until there truly is a concern,
they're not showing up, Like.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
How do they even know you exist? Right? You said,
ninety three customers?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Ninety three customers. It's a high quality infant forum.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
There was no safety concerns, no issues reported, but there
was some press, and that press highlighted that the company
was the new infant formula company in the industry. Now
for a regulated body who regulates all infant formula, this
can also be a shock because where did it come from?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Who is this company? And at our warehouse they were met.
I was met with very friendly.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Officials in full uniform who very quickly said you can't
do this and shut us down.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
And it was heartbreaking.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
It was both heartbreaking and it was the first moment
of just very humbly realizing that just because an industry
needs to be disrupt did doesn't mean that you can
just bulldoze your way through. And there's many ways to
approach disruption and change. And it really was I think
(07:20):
it was one of those first moments I was like, Okay,
this is going to be a journey. This is this
isn't my previous history coming from tech, this is going
to be different, and it was.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I mean, the way the way you talk about it, it
sort of reminds me of when Uber was starting out
and there were all of these rules in different cities
about UH that that limited who could provide taxi service basically, right,
and clearly to me, those rules just benefited taxi services
at the expense of customers, right, And I feel like
(07:50):
that in a way was a model for what you're doing, Like, ah,
there's this duopoly, it hasn't changed in decades. Come on,
we're just going to do this and figure it out later.
And the FDA basically said, no, you are not. That
is not the way this one.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
That's exactly what happened. Exactly what happened.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yeah, and you know there's I think when you go
through these things as well, Like I was looking around,
and I think for any parent listening to this, you
either are or you've heard of someone importing European formula
off a black market. And wherever there's a black market,
there tends to be an opportunity. And that's exactly as
a parent at the time, importing black market European formula,
(08:30):
You're almost looking at this going, well, it's happening in
many ways, but it's not being done in a way
that's meeting consumers where they're currently at. And this seemed
like a different approach to something that was rampant and
already happening all over the country.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
So the FDA's basically shutting you down. You're a brand
new company and the FDA is saying you cannot be
a company in the way that you were planning to
be a company.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
What do you do?
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So you go through an identity crisis for a hot minute,
you go, who am I what's this about?
Speaker 3 (09:04):
How do we tackle it. Why did I do this?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
But also how else would I have done it? Because,
as we all have come to learn, there was no
other options for a new company to be born within
the country. That is why it duopoly exists, and that
is why this industry is so concentrated. There was no
Yellow Pages of infant formula manufacturers here in the US.
(09:30):
If I decided to make baby food, I would have
had a choice of two hundred manufacturers to call, But
I chose a hard regulated product because I believe that
truly needed to change. The challenge was that the industry
was not set up for a newcomer to enter, which.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Is why there were no newcomers.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
It's a high barrier to entry.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
But one of the things that really opened doors was
that the national shutdown that we had from the FDA
got public attention. And when I say public attention, it
got more headlines than us launching the company.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Right, it's great press. It's almost the case been shutting
you down?
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Right?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
So did you find that?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Like?
Speaker 3 (10:14):
So?
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Wait, so the FDA comes in, they basically shut you down,
and then suddenly does everybody want to buy your formula
that you could no longer sell?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
It was half and half. It was a lot of curiosity.
A lot of curiosity was coming my way on just
hold on, what happened?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Why did this happen?
Speaker 2 (10:29):
And it started peaking people's interest for this, Maybe is
an industry to pay attention to.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
And then you're right.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
The other side of it was, oh, my gosh, I
want to get your formula. What can we do to help?
And the peaking interest in the curiosity came from two
different groups that helped me figure out what path I
was going to go on. The first group was an investor,
multiple investors, who saw what I was trying to do,
saw the market opportunity and also how regulated it was,
(10:57):
and called me and said, I really believe in what
you're doing, and I think you have the persistence to
keep going.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Can I give you a few million dollars to keep going? Now?
Speaker 2 (11:07):
That was the kind of phone call you want when
you're in the middle of an identity crisis, trying to
figure out where to.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Go, and when you just got shut down and know
that you're not gonna have any revenue coming in the
door for some time.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, that's right, no revenue and yet a lot of
capital to get to that next phase. The second phone
call was the one that really sealed a deal. And
that phone call was from the only and the one
contract manufacturer that outside of the duopoly in the US
makes infant formula for the country. And that phone call
(11:38):
was a turning point because I tried for two years
leading up to it for them to make my formula,
and I was interesting.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
So this company, it's perrygo Am I saying it the
right way. Err, I read it, so you're saying, and
just to be clear, so they are a US manufacturer
and they make lots of sort of generic formula, right
like if you buy formula Costco or whatever, they make
that formula. And you're saying you had been trying to
get them to make your formulney and you were not
(12:07):
worth their time. Basically, yes, they weren't really calls. We
don't know what they were thinking, but we only know
that they wouldn't return your calls. Yeah, correct, And then
they called you. And then when this news came out,
they called you.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
There you go, Jacob.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
That's exactly how it went down. And it's so funny
when people are like, would you have done it differently?
I'm like, that phone call wouldn't have come in. But
keep in mind they also needed to change their business
model as well, because they were used to making formula
for store brands, and here I was, I had a
unique formula and I wanted someone to make it. So
that was also them going, huh, would we approach this
(12:42):
differently and also take on a new incomer and do
chaking on a new business model as well. So I'll
never forget that call. And one of the most important
things that hit me during that moment was there was
a lot of support to be able to get us
to the next level, not because they saw it as
an opportunity, but because they saw how we handled the shutdown.
(13:07):
And it is something I canntinue to remind the team
of too. Turbulence may come very often, but it's how
you handle that turbulence. And we handled it with a
level of grace and managed our message and hung up
our hat and said, yeah, this is how we approach
the market. And it hasn't landed, so we're going to
take a different path. And we weren't defensive, we didn't
(13:28):
push back, we weren't defiant, and that landed, and that
landed in a way that the respect that came from
both investors and future manufacturers.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
It landed tell me, well, tell me how your formula
is different than that, you know big formula brands in
the christ country.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
So we've designed her based on and I refer to
as as a her. We've designed her really inspired by
European formula. So the first thing we did from a
recipe standpoint was say, how are recipes designed for European
infant formula? And that means you start to look at
the levels. So we are the only infant formula that
(14:09):
mirrors European nutritional standards. And put another way, there's no
US infant formula where their recipe would pass the bar
set for European infant formos. So that's the first thing
the recipe. The second thing that makes us different is
the choice of ingredients. We've chosen to leave out ingredients
(14:31):
like corn syrup, use organic grass fed milk and not
conventional milk, leave out palm oil, which is a leading
ingredient towards constipation for a baby, So making it easier
to digest by leaving out things like palm oil and
putting in things like coconut oil. So between the choice
(14:52):
of our fat blend ingredients and the recipe which mirrors
European nutritional standards. That's ultimately the differentiator that we hang
our hat on.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
So I have two kids and we gave them formula.
We gave them. I think it was similar, just one
of the big American brands, Like should I have given
them some European style formula? Body didn't exist? But if
it should I have done that instead?
Speaker 2 (15:21):
Absolutely not. Okay, and this, oh, I love that you're
asking this because I always I always have a note
by my desk to make sure that this is a
reminder of something to repeat, because I don't believe that
there is anything any such thing is a bad formula.
And I truly mean that. And I don't just mean
that because I want to make sure that people don't
(15:44):
see Bobby as coming across as elite or differentiated that way.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
I truly believe that whatever.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Product is both available affordable is the right formula for you,
and your child will have the same chances as every
other child out there, and I do I truly truly
mean that.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Well, that's a relief, thank you.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
I appreciate that your kids will be fabulous and they
will have the same chances as everyone else.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
I'm a fan. So, I mean, there's something really interesting
here and I've been trying to think of the right
way to talk about it. Well, there's a few things.
One let's just say MABBY is way more expensive than
most formulas. Right, It's like a fancy, high end formula.
And you're saying, it's not like gonna make my kids smarter,
(16:36):
happier or whatever. So so what's the pitch.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's a it's a great it's a
great point to raise, and I'll like underscore again what
I said. I believe parents need choices, not just choices
when it comes to infra formula. I think across anything
that people consume, there needs to be choices because you
got preferences. Now, at the end of the day, milk
is milk, but some parents, and I would be one
(17:02):
of them, I want to make sure that the milk
that I'm feeding them is preservative free.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Organa grass fed, conventional dairy is.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Still going to give you the nutrients your baby needs
to grow and develop, but on a spectrum they are different.
Now that's just using one example, and you can point
to any industry where whether it's a fabric in the
retail and clothing industry, or whether it's something within cosmetics
(17:33):
where people choose to have something that is slightly richer
in collagen than a moisturizer that doesn't at the end
of the day, it is moisturizer and it's going to
give you what you need.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yeah, my kids are now at the age where they're
super into skincare, and so I appreciate that point too,
because you see the different care well, you see the
difference in price for sure. Exactly in a minute, we'll
talk more about marketing in the biggest sense of the word,
(18:03):
and also about what happened to Bobby during last year's
big formula shortage. Now back to the show, So let's
talk about Like, marketing is really interesting to me here, right,
So let's talk about marketing, because you know there's one
(18:25):
when I first started thinking about this, I was like, oh,
maybe it's just marketing. But then like I objected to
that word just right, because I feel like marketing is
a big deal, right, Like whatever we tell ourselves stories
in order to live, you know, Joan didon and just
when you will look at look at say Simolac. I
(18:48):
think we gave our kids Simolac a can of Simolac,
one of the big brands, and then a can of Bobby.
Like they're telling such different stories, right, Like Similac came
out in what the nineteen fifties, right, this era of
like better living through chemistry was kind of the you know,
the fremailing belief. And when you look at Simolac, it
looks like it looks very much like a medical product.
(19:12):
It actually says number one brand fed in hospitals on
the can, and there's like these acronym for some thing
that I don't know what it is. And then you
look at the Bobby can, it's like a line drawing
of a cow, right, And like the biggest letters are organic, right,
And so it's like one is medicine, science and then
other was like nature cows. Am I reading that?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Right?
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I mean is that part of sort of what you're selling.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
I like that you underscored that it's not just yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I really think that, especially because this is formula and breastfeeding.
It's for which itself. Like when you look at the
amount of narrative around breastfeeding versus formula versus the amount
of science, like it's so much narrative, it's so much marketing.
The sort of breastfeeding versus formula story, and and that
story makes people, especially women in my experience, moms feel
(20:06):
so bad when they can't breastfeed, right, And I feel
like the marketing piece, the storytelling piece of what you're
doing fits with that, right.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
It does. Look there's a huge universe out there.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
You're like, ah, whatever, I mean, it's all bs. People
shouldn't be guilty about it. But it's hard for that
person to really judge if you haven't been in the
other person's shoes. Yeah, and there is going to be
many people who will hear this, and we've been on
the journey with them where in their postpartum state and
in that state of is this right for my child?
Speaker 3 (20:38):
How am I feeling? Do I feel guilty?
Speaker 2 (20:41):
You grow up dreaming of breastfeeding and then you realize
that you can only put out two ounces. That's heartbreaking.
This is not like, Oh I chose that granola bar
over this one. This is a completely different moment in life.
And again, my job is to make sure that we
play such a radically centrist position. Unfortunately, the war of
(21:04):
breastfeeding versus formula got to a place where it was
pretty bad, and I think we all need to start
realizing that it's not about what your child is fed,
that we need to just all accept how they're being
fed and just say, your baby's being fed and that's
a good thing. And we have to And that's the
whole goal that I have in our messaging, is that
(21:25):
you just need to feel good that you are feeding
your child something, to be proud of that, whatever it
is for you. And by the way, some other parents
who doesn't need that message might be totally fine and
proud of whatever they've chosen to feed their child. And
there should be no shame, no pointing fingers, and we
need to accept that. And I am very, very proud
to not look at our branding, our marketing as a
(21:48):
sales tool, but rather as a culture changer. And again
I know that there's going to be and there has
been many people go ugh whatever, And yet until you
are in someone's shoes who's truly going through that, do
you really understand the importance of changing a narrative.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
So we got to talk about last year's formula shortage
right this moment. Last year, it was big national news
when one of the big factories that makes formula in
this country shut down, and suddenly there was not enough
baby formula in America.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
I mean, you couldn't write this story.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
And every time I just hear these these moments back
to back like we're doing today.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Oh, I get PTSD. Oh this all went down.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
So what happened was that it was February seventeenth. I
remember so clearly, sitting at my desk and I saw
the news that this recall was happening for a large player.
And because I have spent the last five to six
years researching, understanding the industry and seeing what needs to change,
I knew within sixty seconds of reading that that recall
(22:59):
went down. I knew that this was going to cause
a national shortage. And I remember turning to the team
and I was like, here's what is going to mean.
It means that for what period of time the rest
of the players are going to have to feed America. Yeah,
and within one week post that shortage, our customer count doubled.
(23:20):
Now for a small players just entered to see your
customer count double that quickly.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
On one side, yes, I.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Think as a CEO, you're sitting there going, oh my god,
this is great.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
We're taking off right.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Well, if you are selling software. It would be your dream,
right because you can sell as many licenses for the
software as you want. You could sell a billion of them.
You can just get more service space you give it in.
But you're not selling software, right, You're selling a thing,
and presumably you can't just keep doubling the amount of
it that your manufacturer is making for you.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
And we're also not just selling anything.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
We're not selling a piece of furniture where if someone
comes and it says we're sold out, they go, ooh, I.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Want that more. It's so cool.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
We're selling an essential good that feeds babies, and that
essential good it's not cool to be out of infant formula.
It's not cool to be out of your baby's food.
And that's where being a mom plays into this as well,
because what it means to solve for these moments, you
get a different level of empathy and relatability to what
(24:20):
all American parents are going through. And my head of
growth sharene an exceptional woman whose job is to grow
the business, was the person who sat in front of
me and said, Laura, we are growing too fast. And
here's the problem. We are depleting inventory faster than our
ability to keep up, and if we keep depleting product,
(24:45):
we won't be able to continue and reliably serve those
that have already made a commitment to us. And in hindsight,
it was not a hard decision. Within twenty four hours
of that, we made the decision to stop growing the
company and to just give a promise to those who
signed up for Bobby that we will continue and reliably
(25:05):
be able to serve them.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
So, even though we.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Kept making product, that product was for those who made
a commitment to us already, and we were not about
to grow too fast in a world that we had
no control in and then run out one day.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
So do you like just flip a switch so there's
no sign, Like, do you turn off your website? Like,
what do you actually do?
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Practically? That's exactly what we did.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
We you know, you go to your product page to
go buy something, and we had a letter on the
page that basically said, we have a customer promise that
if you sign up for us, we sign up for you.
And right now we are serving seventy thousand babies across
this country and during the shortage we want to continue
and reliably serve them, and right now we can't accept
(25:50):
more customers. At the time, I thought, maybe this will
go on for a month.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
You just don't know what it was.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Seems like a long time. It was seven months.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Seven months, we turned our side off seven and it
felt like a lifetime.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
So you made it. You made it through that period,
you turned your site back on. You're back to grow
in the formula business. Now, what's the next thing you
want to do?
Speaker 2 (26:19):
I think as we continue to grow, we will be
given the permission by our consumers to say, maybe we
should start looking at other ways that we can tap
into the.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
World of nutrition.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
So while I think we've started with the first one
of the hardest, most regulated products, I'm excited for the
innovation that's happening right now to say, how else can
we look at nutrition, especially in those first thousand days
for a child, and also looking at nutrition for a mom.
So I'm excited to see where Bobby takes our next
(26:49):
steps to solve for a broader nutritional set.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
We'll be back in a minute with the light Now
back to the show. Okay, let's do the lightning round.
It's just a bunch of semi random questions that I
hope will be fun for you. You used to work
(27:18):
at Airbnb. Give me one secret hack for renting a
place on Airbnb.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
I would filter for SuperHost good will. It will truly be.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
That nine or ten that you're looking for, and you're
not rolling the dice.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
And to be clear, SuperHost they're identified on Airbnb. There
are people who have hosted for a long time, gotten
very good reviews.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Correct, they have a badge, they're dedicated, they're fantastic. And
if you're not a super host and you're listening, go
become a SuperHost.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
I read that you used to be a day trader,
and you know, I was an economics reporter for ten years,
and if there's one thing I learned, it's don't be
a day trader. Yeah, are you're wrong? I also read
that you did well as a day trader. So were
you lucky? Were you good?
Speaker 3 (28:09):
What? Like?
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Give me one thing on day trading?
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Oh my god, I love that.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
And the one advice I would have is don't day
trade if you can't watch the market. And what I
mean by that is I worked on Google Finance. I
was staring at the I was staring at stocks all day.
I was staring at the ups and downs. I was
watching the news that related to the ups and downs,
(28:35):
and essentially I was in it. And when I hear
of people just jumping in and day training, but then
they're like out of it for a few hours, it's
dangerous And yeah I was.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
I was in it.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
You're Irish, gon do a couple of Ireland questions. Besides
your family and friends? What do you miss most about Ireland?
Speaker 2 (28:59):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (28:59):
The banter, Well, the banter, the crack, my right to
call it crack? What is crack?
Speaker 3 (29:05):
What is crack?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
I know? And I hope you never cut this one
piece that says Laura misses the crack.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
What I mean by that is that it is banter.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
It's the fun, it's the levity, and it's the hospitality
of Irish humans, even if they're strangers, you will always
have fun.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Is Guinness overrated or underrated?
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Extremely underrated, stunning, It's nutritional and unfortunately you can't pour
a good pint here in the US.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Guinness is like formula for grownups.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Again, you can't quote me on that, but maybe I'm
winking you.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
No, I definitely am going to Laura Mody is the
founder and CEO of Bobby. Today's show was produced by
Edith Russolo, edited by Sarah Nix and engineered by Amanda K.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Wong.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
You can email us at problem at Pushkin dot fm,
or you can find me on Twitter at Jacob Goldstein.
I'm Jacob Goldstein and we'll be back next week with
another episode of What's Your Problem MHM
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