8-4-24 - Dudley Phelps with Mossy Oak Nativ Nurseries

Tonight's guest was Dudley Phelps with Mossy Oak Nativ Nurseries. Dudley is also the co-host of "The Game Keepers of Mossy Oak" television show and the Game Keepers podcast.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:23):
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(00:44):
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Speaker 2 (01:00):
Good in everyone demonstrated here with my co host Scott
Crona and God I know you're as excited as I
am about tonight's guest. He's a gentleman. We both have
known him for many, many years. His name is Dudley Phelps,
and he's with Malfield Native Nurseries, And like you and I,

(01:24):
he really appreciates wildlife adversity. And I don't mind saying
I take a back seat to wildlife management when I'm
talking to this gentleman. I've been doing it for over
forty years, and every time I talk to him, there's
a new twist, a new turn, and excellent observation. So
I can't tell everybody how excited we already have Dudley

(01:45):
on with us.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
The great thing about Dudley is he can help you
no matter what your budget, no matter what size the
property is that you have. And one of the great
things is Dudley's techniques and products benefit in multiple animals,
and that in general just creates a whole lot better
habitat for a whole lot more critters, and it gives

(02:08):
us a.

Speaker 4 (02:09):
Better world to live in.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
Since most of us are kind of getting faced with
this word of sustainability, Jim and the world's not producing
any more acres for wildlife habitat. But I can tell
you one thing Dudley is.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Well, he's an experts expert, no doubt about it. I'm
gonna go ahead and go to break and we'll beating
Dudley up here. This break is presented by SMI Marine.
They're at eleven four hundred Westport Roads, just north of
the Snyder. Go see him. Let's take great care of
you and remember you never get soaked by my friends
at SMI and their farmers. We're talking tonight with Doudley

(02:48):
Phelps and Dudley's with Mansio Native Nurseries. Dudley, I welcome aboard, buddy.
I've looked forward to this program for a long long
time and glad to have you on with us. Talk
folks a little bit about yourself and your background and
all the things that you do in your profession.

Speaker 5 (03:10):
Well, first off, I'm glad to be here talking with
you guys. You know, this is my favorite subject and
I assume everybody else's favorite subject.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
But so.

Speaker 5 (03:24):
I just decided to, at the age of thirty something,
decide to go back to school, uh and and take
you know, wildlife and forestry classes at Mississippi State. I
had grown up with some family land, and it was
it was more of a timber farm, you know, we
grow a lot of love loly pine down in the south,

(03:45):
further south, and so I was just you know, grew
up around that, grew up hunting and fishing, and just
the traditional you know, business school or whatever just wasn't
cut out for me. And so all of that went well.
And when I moved up to where I am now

(04:07):
and start for Mississippi to go to Mississippi State, I
just started working at Massy Oak about the same time
and was more or less you know, planting seeds and
pulling weeds at the brand new Massy Oak Native Nurseries.
They weren't even at the point of where they were

(04:29):
selling plant material yet, but I just kind of came
on as like a student worker. And I've been here
ever since. I think I'm about to hit year eighteen.
And so generally what we do we collect a lot
of our own seeds. We you know, do all the

(04:49):
different methods to make them sprout properly, you know, like
an acorn might sprout a lot differently than a plum.
And so we've over time learn how to do all
of that. And uh, we've got a full fledged uh nursery.
We ship plants pretty much all over the US and
they're they're specific for for wildlife, so uh we don't

(05:14):
we don't have a lot of you know, like fruits
that you would buy at the grocery store. Uh, it's
more you know, wild stuff. And you know, part part
of what I do is I help people decide what
to plant. So they'll call on the phone or email
us and uh tell me about their goals. You know,
were they more a deer in Turkey or they wanting

(05:36):
to see a lot of songbirds or uh there, you know,
whatever your goal is. We can sit down and talk
about the soil types and what type of site you have,
you know, whether you're down on the bottom or on
top of the hill, and just help you figure out
what you need to order. And I answer a lot
of just general wildlife habitat management questions as well. Hell,

(06:01):
that's what we're here for. We also have a subset
of massy oak called Gamekeepers. We've got a quarterly magazine.
Again we talk about stuff you can do outside, everything
from fertilizing your pond the winter, rizing your cabin, to
managing food plots. You know, it's less about hunting and

(06:25):
more about doing all the work. And we also have
a podcast very similar to this show where we talk
about wildlife and forestry topics well Deadly.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
One of the coolest things about you, in particular is
the time you will take with any individual that calls
the company to help them, as you mentioned, Taylor, whatever
they want to do to what you all can provide,
and that's pretty unusual in today's today's world. I'd like
to kick this thing off with the fact that we

(07:00):
are at fall food plot planning season and just a
general discussion I guess about your thoughts and Scott you
chime in here as well about you know what the
plant and it's time. I guess is what I'm saying.
You know, we're hopefully hitting people right on the button

(07:21):
on getting ready to get ready, or I know some
folks have already planned. Scott, you've taken advantage of this
raging Dudley. You want to speak to that.

Speaker 5 (07:32):
Yeah, So earlier we were kind of pregaming on the phone,
talking about what we were wanting to discuss, and Scott
brought up the fact that we've had an incredibly wet
even in Mississippi. We've had an incredibly wet second half
of July. I think even probably even earlier in July

(07:54):
it started, but it was we were on the we
were on the drought map until this hit. You know.
That was I was riding around my little piece of
heaven and you know, just seeing wilted leaves on trees
and shrubs and things. But that is it's the exact opposite.
We're at full saturation right now. And you know, traditionally,

(08:19):
when we first started doing food plots, I don't know,
thirty or forty years ago, we mainly focused on cereal
grains and we were following those farming practices. So you know,
if the farmers weren't planting winter wee, then it was
it was too early. We needed to wait until they
were doing it, and that was typically in the fall.

(08:41):
But you know, that goal is to you know, get
some roots in the ground and then those plants thrive
in the spring and then grow a big seedhead to harvest.
We're trying to feed our wildlife during the cool seasons,
so we we really want to get those crops up
sooner than later. And now we've all been experimenting with

(09:06):
different types of crops for wildlife and we've become to
where we're using a lot more clovers, you know, both
annual and perennial and bi annual clovers. But we've also
gotten really into these brassicas, which most of you know
that's the turnip greens, the rape, the radishes, things like that.

(09:28):
But I mean, they provide so much food value. But
you have to get them in the ground earlier than
we traditionally planted, and you know used to we planted
when those fall patterned rains hit those winter patterned rains.
But if you start early, like in Kentucky, if you've

(09:51):
got the moisture, you can get those things in the
ground August first to fifteenth, even some of your cereal
grains and clover as well, especially if the moisture is there. Uh,
those brassicas can be over knee height by the time
it starts getting cold, and that is so much food

(10:12):
on the ground. If you were to wait until like
the traditional planting time, which may even be early October, uh,
a lot of those plants aren't going to get very
big before it gets cold. So you know, we're trying
to feed wildlife, and so it's it's odd for a
lot of folks to think about planting this early, but

(10:36):
we're doing it more and more these days, especially on
the you know, the better moisture years.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
Yeah, Dudley, that's so important because it was just several
years ago that we were falling those agriculture practices and
and a lot of these crops that were utilizing in
our annual and perennial food plots, and I want to
folks mostly on annual.

Speaker 4 (11:01):
Food plots, they were really cover crops.

Speaker 3 (11:04):
And we learned because of our knowledge and spending time
in the field that diversity was a lot better than
having a monocultural environment. And instead of just planting one
particular crop like a farmer with winter weed or cereal rye,
we realized they were picking and choosing on this stuff.

(11:24):
And I know that a lot of these trials and
tests is what deer prefer, what's best fur their palate.
And where we did pregame a little bit before the show.

Speaker 4 (11:35):
What I realized is.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
When I had everything ready to go the first week
of August, and I could work with my window of
opportunity with weather and moisture being the most important thing
because we're going to have the sole temperature, We're going
to have the temperatures to get fast germination. I realized
really quick that even in my egg production background, that

(11:58):
forage in that tone inch per acre and that brows
is really what we were wanting. And when that winter
wheat and cereal rye and oats and brasicas and all
the different radishes and our annual and perennial clovers, when
they're popping and they're growing good, those deer have a
whole smorgasboard of what they can capitalize on. And I'm

(12:19):
sure you'll agree, the thing that will ruin your management
plans quicker than anything when it comes to foraging brows
when it is related to food plots is moisture.

Speaker 5 (12:29):
Mm hmm, yep.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Well, and we're go ahead.

Speaker 5 (12:38):
Well, I was going to say, you know, we're weekend warriors,
so you know we're not farmers. We can't be there
every day. So and the seed is probably the cheapest
component of all of this when it comes to food plotting,
so it can be tough to swallow for somebody to
plant in August. If you're worried about that, you know,

(13:01):
maybe segment your food plots to the thirds and do
a third of them on that early shift and Once
you see good results come out of that, you're you're
gonna want to do it every year. It's it's it
can be a hard pill to swallow, but but it works.
When sometimes it doesn't work, you know, sometimes you do

(13:22):
have a bad year. But the beauty of that is,
you know, the fertilizer and the lime is more than
the seed in the time, and so you can always replant.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
You know, Dudley speak to that in depth because so
many people skimp on the fertilizer and lime, and that's
that's what boosts everything. Can you kind of hammer that home.

Speaker 5 (13:46):
For yeah, you know, And and the soil test is
so important. I know we tend to just over discuss
the whole soil test thing, but it is that important.
If you're gonna you know, a bag of fertilizer, you know,
I'm seeing it over twenty dollars in places, and a

(14:07):
soil test might call for seven or eight bags a
fertilizer per acre. And so a lot of folks, you know,
they have good intentions, and they have their work weekend
and they've got all these fields and they want to
clip them all on that work weekend and then disk them.
You know, have them all dissed up. Maybe they've got

(14:29):
another work weekend to plant. But you may have twenty
or thirty acres of food plots or openings that you
think you have to plant every year. But if if
you're not going to follow that soil test and get
the pH right and get the proper fertilizer in and
even be willing to come back and top dress a

(14:49):
little bit of fertilizer, you know, maybe in late October
or something, a lot of those plants, as soon as
it starts getting cold and the sol oil stays wet,
they become stressed and they start turning purple and yellow,
and then the big cold blast comes through, and since
they're so stressed, they can't handle the cold, and then

(15:12):
they just kind of fizzle out. And you probably would
have been better off in some of those areas not
even food plotting it, you know, letting it stay in
thick old field type cover and with you know, but
to plant fewer food plots and do them right, as

(15:35):
opposed to just filling all your fields up and not
fertilizing them enough. That is probably the way to go,
is to if you can't do it right, do less acreage.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Absolutely Dudley here in the next few minutes talk about
what we've all learned the hard way about diversity in
these food plots. In other words, one thing isn't necessarily
the best idea, oh.

Speaker 5 (16:05):
For sure, you know. And and just because a deer
likes to eat something. For example, these radishes, these forage
radishes are kind of the new hot item in the braffcas. Gosh,
even in that early you know, that early velvet season,
they'll be eating on those radishes. You might could mix

(16:26):
them with some oats, but they like them almost as
much as they like, you know, soybeans in the summertime,
and they can eat them out. So yeah, they're an
incredibly palatable plant. The deer love it. But if it's
gone before it gets cold, then it doesn't have a
lot of value, you know, it doesn't add a lot

(16:48):
of value to your property when the deer really need it.
So you can mix it up. You can plant some radishes,
but maybe put some turnips in there that they're gonna
eat lake in the winter. So it's real important to
not just give them something that's incredibly attractive, you know,
so you can try to shoot the deer. Uh, you

(17:10):
want to have food there. You know, as far as
cool season goes, you want it there from really late
summer all the way until you know you get that
green up in the spring.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yes, sir, it's so important. This is where I'd never
tell them if they ever quite just brashic. For example,
I'd love to have cereal grains mixed in with it.
And we'll talk about that some more coming back after
the break. Here. This break is said about all field property.
It's heart Realty. Paul Thomas is the broker and guess

(17:46):
what when you purchase properties or sell properties, either way,
they will help you with these wildlife management techniques. And
Dudley Phelps is a phone hallway. All right, folks, we'll
be back right after this. You can talk about diversity
in plots and that's something that I'm really keen on. Scott.

(18:09):
You just playing at a bunch of stuff yourself. What did
you key on? And I'm gonna let you guys discuss that.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
Well over the years, and I hope Dudley will agree
with me or not get too mad at me. I've
told people that the absolute best food plot commercial blend
that you can buy is stream Patch Plus's. I've always
utilized it because of the size bags that you can

(18:41):
purchase at retailers, and it's such an easy blend to
add a little bit to a little this or a
little that, like if I want it to be a
little bit heavier and radishes or any type of braska
or winter bulb that people are getting more familiar with,
and I can just always add that in to my
And I guess the reason why I like the green

(19:04):
Patch Plus so much in giving it a little extra
juice is because it goes back to that diversity and
there's so many things that are in there that are
gonna get good germination with bare minimum seed, the soil
contact and a lot of the places that I have
found over the years that I.

Speaker 4 (19:24):
Can make the biggest and the best.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
Improvements, honest and with smaller properties as places that I
have really.

Speaker 4 (19:30):
Limited equipment to go into.

Speaker 3 (19:32):
So that's just over the years, as long as I've
known Dudley, and even before that, green Patch Plus was
this kind of it was my band aid on habitat
for annual food pluts, and it really allows to go
in and and frost seed later on with some more perennials.
So it's just a if you can make it a

(19:54):
PhD food plot with just doing something really basic, deadly.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Scott just mentioned something that I think we really need
to emphasize, and that is that type of planning does
allow for frost seeding with clovers. I'm renovating the plot
as we speak, and uh, that's definitely what I'm gonna do.
I'm gonna go with that variety of seed and then

(20:20):
I'm gonna in late winter oversee my clovers to replenish
my clover pot.

Speaker 5 (20:28):
Yeah, more and more folks are doing that, even down
here in Mississippi. Folks are experimenting with it some although
we're we're actually a little bit below the line where
we you know, we just don't get enough frequent frost
events where the you know, surface of the ground freezes
to be able to so that freeze and thaw, you know,

(20:49):
it kind of sucks that seed into the you know,
top quarter inch of the soil. You know, it'll crack
and then thall and then that that silk will kind
of cave into that crack and it just it puts
it in the perfect place and that cold moist, you know,
helps stimulate it to sprout. And more people do that

(21:10):
than not these days.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
I was.

Speaker 5 (21:13):
We were talking to a clover person on our podcast
recently and he was saying that that's a more common
practice than actually preparing the site and planning and the
fall when you get you know, the further north you
go and it works just great.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
Well, you're really important too, though, is what folks are
wanting a lot of times, is they are trying to
create an area that will really concentrate deer and annuals
overall just because of the management of them. You can
work a little bit of ground up and use a

(21:53):
little bit of fertilizer and you can have instant success,
and then during hunting season people have really good results
out of them, but unfortunately deer season's over and they
don't go back and look at that same area a
lot of times until next.

Speaker 4 (22:06):
Year they're ready to work it up.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
What's what's very beneficial with all of this stuff and
learning how to like bake, make a basic annual food
plot and then incorporate some of your newer varieties of
radish and some of your bulbs too, is it really
helps a lot of people out with their soil tilth
and a lot of folks don't realize a lot of

(22:30):
this ground that is being worked up in the food plots.
It's normally not your best production agriculture ground because your
best production ag ground is really it's already tied up
into your best hay fields and your best egg production
on your grain crops, especially here in the Kentucky, Tennessee
and Indiana area.

Speaker 5 (22:51):
Yeah, a lot of what US hunters, weekend warriors are,
you know, planting up on top of a ridge or
you know, maybe where a long time ago they were
loading logs into the flag hallar you know, things like that,
and like you said, all the prime ground has been
taken up with you know, yeah, ag.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
Well, you just the key to a lot of that,
of course, is turning what you do have into productive
ground for the wildlife. And there's a lot of ways
to accommodate that. Of course, we're going to talk about
that at great length. Dudley. On the brassica side of things,
especially the radishes and turnips speak to the importance of

(23:39):
them and renovation of fields because of the way they
add humans to the soil and or penetrate the ground.
Because so many of these places that we try to
plant for wildlife are almost rock hard.

Speaker 5 (23:55):
Yeah, So so all of those plants in that Brassica family,
they have a really strong tap root, you know, and
it starts out with that that tuber, that bulb, but
it has a really narrow root. It's you know, it's
almost hair like, but you know, you can dig a

(24:16):
hole and follow that root, you know, once that plant
is mature, and that that little hair like tap root
maybe three feet deep. So the beauty of these brassicas
you can plant them when it's almost too early or
too hot and dry. You get a rain event on
them enough for them to sprout, and that's about all

(24:37):
they need. They have that vigorous root that grows really deep.
But they also produce exodits, so it's it's, you know,
just like a liquidy substance. Other than saying it has
a lot of good stuff in it, that's what it has.
It's it's good for the soil. It feeds little micro organisms.

(24:58):
They can even deter certain types of weeds. But that
that root, when when that plant dies, it leaves that
little bitty hole in the ground and so that helps
water infiltrate into the soil. So that that field, uh
they call them natural subsoilers. That that field may have

(25:20):
had some heavy equipment or cattle on it years ago,
and it's become compacted. Normally you'd have to run some
deep tillage through there, but just planting a lot of
these brassacas can alleviate that compaction. And the other cool
thing about them is that deep tap root can get
deeper than other plants. And so if you had farmed

(25:43):
that in years prior, the nitrogen and the soil goes
really deep quickly to where other plants can't reach it.
But that long taproot can reach that nitrogen and then
it brings it back up into the leaves and that
old and then when it dies, it leaves that nitrogen

(26:03):
on the surface. They call that like a nitrogen scavenger,
and so that's available for your next crop. But the
clovers in your blend can can do similar things. They
actually fix nitrogen from the air in their roots and
then and then those roots leave nitrogen for the next crop.

(26:27):
And you know we were talking about blends like green
Patch Plus that also has cereal greens. They serve purposes
for soul health as well, and that that's why farmers
are now using them for cover crops. They don't really
want that bare dirt on the ground all fall and
winter anymore. They want to have something growing. And you know,

(26:50):
they've run like these cost analysis on this whether it's
worth the extra cost of seed, and it's actually saving
them money. They you know, us less fertilizer, less tillage,
less herbicides, and so it's a win win, And we're
we're now doing that in our food plots. Uh, we're

(27:11):
learning that you don't necessarily have to flip the soil
over every year. Scott was mentioning before our call that
he was doing some of these what we refer to
as poor man's practices. Uh, poor man's no till. I've
often referred to it as throwing moat. It's a it's

(27:32):
a really neat technique. You know, not all of us
have the no till drills. Well, I would say the
majority of us don't have all that fancy equipment. Uh,
but you can do the same things without it. Uh,
So that that may be a fun subject to go into.
But uh I did it for eight years in a

(27:53):
row and had really good results. We sold our farm
and moved on to another place. But I just got
tired of disc in every year. Lots of wear and
tear and so I experimented in one field, I let
the weeds get kind of tall. I mounted a spray
rig a little bit higher up on the back of

(28:13):
my bike to where you could drive over that tall
stuff and spray it.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Well.

Speaker 5 (28:22):
And then that plant material dies back, and then I
throw my fertilizer line and then my seeds out, and
then I mow it to cover it, and then that
light thatch layer that falls on top of the seed
will kind of trap the moisture, and then those seeds

(28:43):
will sprout and come up through that thatch. And most
of the time about eighty eighty five percent of the
field sprouts and comes up nice and lush, And I'm
perfectly happy with that. You know, it's not perfect, but
I'm improving my soulis I'm saving time and money, and
the wildlife don't seem to care.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, there's the bottom line. Let me go to a
quick break here. Coming back, I want to talk to
you a little bit more about that process. This break
is presented by SMI Marine. They'll take care of all
your body needs. Remember you never get soaked by my
friends at SMI touched on something that I think we
need to really emphasize here and that is when you

(29:30):
do plenty for wildlife you need. And it is especially
true a deer, for example, to provide what they need
on a year round basis as much as you can.
For example, the Braskas are really good for falling winter,
but not so much for that following spring and in

(29:50):
the summer. And that's why the diversity side of things
is so very very important, so true. You know, people
don't next think about, well, a deer's got to be
fat and healthy coming out of winter to develop that
pedicle base to have a good rack. And then conversely,

(30:14):
when it gets into spring, they need something that's green
and lush to push that forward during the growing season throughout.
Talk a little bit about your your thoughts about what
makes a good year round mix for that type of management.

Speaker 5 (30:32):
Well, uh, there's a lot of different options for that.
You guys were talking about frost seeding clovers earlier, and
that works great. You know you can plant them, you know,
maybe sometime in February and then you know, you get
that spring flush usually in Turkey season, and there's you know,
plenty of food there from your annual clovers. You can

(30:55):
also put a perennial clover into your into your fall
all blend, and then that that perennial clover. You know,
it establishes really slowly in the fall, but it takes
off that next spring and into the summer. You know,
one of the things about clover is if you do

(31:15):
have a dry July and August, it can go into
a dormant state, and so you need to be prepared
for that. A lot of people we have a clover
blend called clover plus that has chickery in it. That's
another thing you can add to your blends. It looks
like a brassica. It's not, but it has a deep

(31:39):
taproot and it has a leafy, you know, looking leaf
similar to a brassica. But it really comes on strong
in the heat of the summer. And so if your
clover dies back, that can be a good component. You know,
things like beans and peas. We all know that works
really well. And then you know, native habitat is also

(32:02):
really important in the summertime. Just managing for all those
good weeds, you know, outside of your food plots, or
just letting them some grow, letting some of them grow
in your food plots. You know, if you see a
lot of ragweed out there in the in the late spring,
you can just leave it and let everything much on

(32:23):
that over the summer.

Speaker 3 (32:25):
You know, Jim, listening to you and Udley talk it,
it brings something to foresight, and that is so many
people start off with food plotting is just a small
little area, and then as the development comes and I'm
sure Dudley's seeing it each and every day, when people

(32:47):
see just a little bit of success and they get
to taste it, what it really turns into is I
think all of us are guilty of having a really
good food plot addiction. But then it turns into the management,
and there's a there's a big difference between just creating
a food plot for hunting season so that you can

(33:09):
punch your tag versus actually managing your piece of property
where you're providing not only do the deer, but all
of the wildlife game and non game for that that
entire year, and and looking at management decisions that allow
you to go forward so that you can create the
ultimate oasis for for your game to live on.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
You know, That's that is the point I think as
much more than anything about what we're talking about tonight,
it's this diversity, and I relate a little quick story
here about something that really opened my eyes. A good
friend of mine, Brad Graham, manages his property. We've been
working together for decades and he had a plot. It

(33:55):
was a fall plot, and he wasn't able to plant it,
but it had been fertilize I didn't lying very very well,
and so when he didn't get a chance of plant it,
it came up in giant ragweed. And we were down
there looking at it, and all of a sudden it
started to look like somebody went through there with a lawnmower.
And I was like, oh, my goodness. You know, here's

(34:17):
giant ragweed, which most people would hate, that was providing
a nutritional base because it had that line and fertilizer base.
And I'm not advocating people plant giant ragweed. I'm just
pointing out there's so many things out there that did
really like besides the established plots were talking.

Speaker 5 (34:38):
About, oh for sure, and I would be willing to
throw it out there that what is not in the
food plots or you know, some of the weeds you
let grow up in your food plots on a lot
of properties that may be more you know, a lower
hole in the bucket or a missing piece than having

(34:59):
the food plots themselves, you know, the in stressful times
of the summer and things like that. You know, we
were just talking about this, if some of your food
plots dry up. You know, these these plants have evolved
for gazillions of years to be able to handle those
summers and handle those soils. Things like ragweed, whether it

(35:21):
be that giant ragweed or the or the common rag weed,
both of them are just great for wildlife. But there's
a lot of other ones out there.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
Yes, sir, and we'll talk about those when we come
back from this break. Folks, coming back from break, we're
going to talk a little bit about poor man's wildlife management.
That is what you can do easily and it's very
very efficient on your proper and Dudley is a real
expert at that, and of course Scott is as well.

(35:51):
So we'll do that right after the break. This break
is presented by MASSIHI Property's Heart Realty. Check them out
an m p h A R T realteed dot com.
We were talking a little bit about things that are
easy to do, is they can benefit people, and I
want to bring up something that you and I talked

(36:13):
about and that I stumbled upon years ago. I've always
been a big fan of cereal rye because the stuff
will grow in the back of a pickup truck if
it gets wet.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
That's number one easy to grow. It's a great food
source for deer in the late fall and winter period
and will stand up much better than some of the
other greens like oak, oats and wheat, because it's like
the grass in your yard. The deer moett is jumps
back up. The deer moett that jumps back up, and

(36:49):
it's it's cold tolerant. Uh. The reason I'm bringing this
up so many of us have clover plots because bang
for the buck and the work, you know, well, that's
a plot that will last for years on end. Where
I'm leading with this is I discovered if you can
drill or broadcast cereal ride in with your clover in

(37:12):
the fall of the year, you're providing that one two
post that we talked about here earlier in the program
about feeding the deer all the way up into the spring.
Because the clover will play out in the winter, especially
up in our area, about mid December, and then all
of a sudden, here's that green growth out of that

(37:34):
cereal rye that will keep their gut healthy and is
a dark, good food source. I tell people all the time,
it's not a piletmen on yon, but it's a damn
slice of blowne.

Speaker 5 (37:46):
That's right. So I remember, you know, back before we
had Facebook groups, we had these things called forums, and
the Quality Deer Management Association and uh now called the
National Deer Association had a forum and there was a
gentleman of a wildlife management person. His name was Paul Knox.

(38:10):
He has passed away from als. Just wonderful guy who
was always just really knowledgeable, always had lots of before
and after photos and data from what he was doing.
He managed a bunch of folks land up in Iowa,
and uh he kind of taught me. I never met
the man, but you know, we knew each other through

(38:32):
the computer about the benefits of serial rye. And that's
not to be confused with annual rye grass, which is
you know, it's it's considered an invasive and we really
don't want that in our food plots. But the serial
rye is is a good one. And he taught us

(38:55):
that it will grow and and add more top growth
in soil temperatures as low as thirty eight fair and higher,
and wheat and oats, you know, deer love them too,
maybe even a little bit more, but they're not quite
as cold tolerant. And so where that rye shines is

(39:17):
like you said, they pretty much eaten all the clover
and it's quit regrowing. That's when that rye. You know,
it may not be their favorite thing to eat in September,
but in December, January, and February they're keying in on
that because you know, it may be the only game

(39:38):
in town, especially in a really cold winter. And it's
also incredible for the soil. He showed us through you
know photos when he was playing drilling rye into strips
in just a food plot blend, you know, wheat, oats,
clover brassicas he was drilling rye into those on on

(40:02):
difficult years when those plots didn't come up as well,
and it would come up, and he noticed that next
spring in summer when he was growing you know spring
and summer crops, that the areas that had the rye
previously they got off to a better start, They had
better germination, better growth rates. It seemed like they retain

(40:27):
moisture more so there's there's really something to the right.
And I totally.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Agree with you, Dudley, give us your recommendations for broadcasting
cereal rye in a clover field, because not everybody's got
a seed drill. Those things are expensive.

Speaker 5 (40:45):
That's right. And you know, we were referring to this
as poor man's food plotting, but it's really like most
people's food plotting. Most of us don't have the fancy equipment,
and it sure is nice to have, but you know,
we've been getting by without it for a long time,
and we're learning more of these older techniques that you know,

(41:08):
some of our great grandfathers were doing years ago that
that works really well. But yeah, you can just broadcast
you know, wheat and rye you know, doesn't have a
hole like oats, and it generally both of them generally
germanate better.

Speaker 4 (41:26):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (41:27):
In a top dressing scenario, you know that may be
you're walking around flinging it out with your hand, or
I like using an over the shoulder bag spreader or
something like one of those moultuary spreaders that you can
mount on the front or the back of your full wheeler.

(41:47):
And yeah, you can just go out there. You know,
even if whether it's your normal food plot planning time
or later on, you know, when thing's cool down, then
you're like, I want to touch that spot up. You
can go fling some rye out there and it germinates
on the surface really well if you have enough moisture.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
What would be your recommendation on pounds per acre for
that in stand of clover, for example.

Speaker 5 (42:14):
I think that it really varies. You know, some of
the Turkey folks are going to want to put it
out at a lower rate, and you can. You can
leave it standing in the in the in the spring,
and that way the pultse can run around in there
and hide from hawks and things flying over. But if

(42:35):
it's really close together, they're not going to want to
get in there. It's going to be difficult to move around.
If your focus is deer, you could plant it, gosh.
I mean, I've even seen folks plant one hundred and
twenty pounds an acre. You know, we're not trying to
grow well, most of us are not trying to grow

(42:55):
a perfect seedhead like a farmer, you know, to to
get that grain. We're planning it for forage and secondary grain.
So It really depends on your goals. You might want
to mix it up. You know, some of the areas
that you think may be better for turkeys in the

(43:16):
spring and summer, you can plant it really thin. Some
of your larger fields where you're going for forage, you
might want to plant it pretty thick. And that's the
beauty of it. It's a long, narrow stem, so sunlight
can still get down in there even if those plants
are pretty close together.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
Yes, sir, I'm gonna go to a quick break here.
Coming back from break, Scott's going to talk about some
of the things he does to get really really good
plots going where again the average person can really get
a lot of benefit, and I want your thoughts about
that as well. This break is presented by SMI Marine.
Go see them. They'll take great care of you. Remember

(43:55):
you never get soaked at SMI scott or break. We
were talking about some of the ways to do things
efficiently and cheaply, which is big in today's world. And
with your hag experience blended with your wildlife experience, you
got some thoughts. I want you to run by Dudley Well.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
I think the most important thing is is people got
to have the gumption that want to go out there
and create better habitat, and they've got to be willing
to learn how to food plot. And with the price
of things, I mean, you can still buy a one
gallon sprayer for ten twelve fifteen bucks. Just about everybody

(44:39):
I know that likes to hunter fish has got a
garden tiller or an ATV, and a lot of folks
that are in the hunting community they know enough folks
that they can get out there and get somebody to
utilize their tractor and disk and help them work up
a little spot. But I think the most important important

(45:00):
thing is how important weeds are in where they fall
into place. Weeds in agriculture defined as any unwanted plant,
but a lot of things that we call weeds in
production agriculture are phenomenal products for so many different species

(45:22):
of wildlife. And the way in what we mold these
things can even filter deer or turkeys right in front
of us. And Dudley had mentioned that a lot of
the practices that we had utilized from what our great
grandparents and grandparents did have come into full intuition, and

(45:43):
they really have because the presence of fire, for example,
is so important and what that means with succession and
discarification being able to go out there and turn some
dirt over. There are so many ways in which you
can create a natural food plot where you've got this

(46:05):
incredible soul bank that all you have to do is disturb.
So without talking about a brassica or an annual or
a perennial clover deadly, just explain to people.

Speaker 4 (46:19):
How important it is to let stuff.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
Grow up and to maintain it with proper mechanization.

Speaker 4 (46:27):
And that's going to be the most people.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
Of the bush hog to where you don't have you know,
saplings getting so big that you can't go through and
mo eventually. But just tell us how important succession is
for feeding our critters and giving them good habitat that
allows them to be comfortable.

Speaker 5 (46:44):
In Yeah, I mean, so just think about this, These
all these animals and bugs and everything. They've been here
a long time. You know, we may argue on the
evolution thing and all that, how far back it goes,
but they go back a lot farther than us, having

(47:05):
food plots and soybean fields and things like that, and
they thrived in that landscape. So they you know, we
were talking about ragweed earlier, things like ragweed, partridge pee,
all the different types of leaves on the wildflowers, you know,
and we're always kind of hinting about deer but everything,

(47:30):
and you know, we didn't have food plots two thousand
years ago, but wildlife thrived. You can even you know,
on the computer these days, you can find aerial topographic
maps and aerial photos that showed what the landscape looked like,

(47:52):
you know, sixty seventy eighty years ago, and it was
vastly different. I don't want to get too far into
the quails subject, but you know, a lot of the
reason why we had quailed so long ago, and well
not long ago, a generation ago, it's because we had

(48:13):
that rough looking habitat everywhere we Timber wasn't a big thing.
Our ag fields were much smaller. They had little thick
fence rows. You know, we used to make fences. We
would cut cedar trees down and throw the top off
to the side and use the log to make a post.

(48:35):
You know, nowadays we're spraying all of our fence rows.
We're cutting down all of those random trees out in
the fields that used to have cover, and our landscape
has just changed so much, but we can make it
look like it did one hundred or hundreds of years ago.

(48:57):
And it's easy to do and it's cheap. Uh. You know,
one of the main things that that you can do
is you can get rid of some of these non
native cattle grasses. Like one of the best things you
could do for a property for wildlife is to try
to get rid of all the fescuemen we've been planting.

(49:19):
We've been planting that for years for cattle, and you know,
it's green, it's pretty and when you mow it, it
comes back greener and prettier, but none of our wildlife
really recognize it. It also has a toxicity to it
as well that that can affect birth rates and makes

(49:39):
animals coats look different if if they eat too much
of it, and things like that. But so there's a
wildlife management area in Mississippi and the commission decided, uh,
somebody brought it to their attention that it was just
completely covered in fescue and the wildlife there was just

(50:01):
really subpar. And so they got some type of grant
and we're able to go in there. And I'll preface
this by saying, you know, not everybody is gung ho
about spray and herbicides everywhere, but we have created a
problem planting all of these non native grasses that have

(50:25):
gotten off into our wildlife areas, and we have no
other choice but to treat it. Otherwise it's just going
to persist and stay. But so this wm A, they
went in there and treated the fescue and the plant
life that came back. It had all of those species
we were talking about. You know, all those seeds were

(50:47):
in the soil, so your your ragweed, all these different
types of sunflowers, you name it. But you can you know,
you can walk through that place now and kick your
legs through the weeds, and you see grasshoppers jumping everywhere.
You see a mocking bird flying down to grab that
grasshopper in the air and eat it. You're hearing quail again.

(51:14):
And that was all one treatment. And you can even
do that. And you know, if you live on just
say you've got a house on the road and you've
got ten acres behind it, there's so much you can do,
and just starting off by getting rid of what isn't
supposed to be there is huge and it doesn't take much.

(51:39):
So yeah, it's not all about the food plots. It's
what is outside of those areas that's really important. And
I've been doing it at my I've got a little
piece of property that's about twenty minutes from home and
my thing. Lately, I've been micromanaging all of my old

(52:00):
log loading decks. So I've got three log loading decks
on my property. And you know, the loggers had left
the logs there and it had grown up, and uh,
I did splurge on one of those mulching machines and uh,
two of them, I put a ring around them, just
so I it's a fire lane and I'm going to

(52:21):
burn them. And one of them I went ahead and
had it, had it mulched up, and uh, but you
you know the other one I'm going to run fire through.
And you know, I'm going to get all these cool
weeds back, but I'm also going to get bad weeds.
So I've been spot spraying them and the results have
been tremendous.

Speaker 4 (52:43):
You would wouldn't.

Speaker 5 (52:44):
Believe all the deer brows on all of the weeds
that have come up.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
That is really cool. All right, Dudley, come back from break.
We're going to talk to you about your passionate about
trees and tree plannings for wildlife, which is I mean,
you're if you're not the expert expert, I don't know
who he is. So I'm really looking forward to hearing
you talk about that and how they can be integrated

(53:09):
as part of people's wildlife management plans on their property.
This break is presented by SMI Marine. Check them out.
They're eleven four hundred Westport Road, just north of the Snyder.
You never get sunk at SMI totally. Let's talk about
one of your favorite subjects, and that, of course is

(53:31):
trees for wildlife. And we got a lot of talk
about here, so I'm going to turn it over to
you and let you roll.

Speaker 5 (53:39):
Well that that's kind of what got me into all
of this stuff, is Uh, I've just always had a
green thumb. It seems to run in the family. My
grandmother taught biology, and uh, you know, we would go
on little trips and she was, you know, show me
seeds and we would pick them up and I would

(54:00):
always come home with seeds in my pocket. I've just
been obsessed and that that's kind of was my first obsession.
I was really hardwoods and then uh, you know, forage
type trees, whether it be oaks, for simmons, pears, you know,
all that good stuff. But when I first moved to

(54:24):
this college town start on Mississippi where Mississippi State is,
I came to go to forestry school. I had been
reading about hybrid oaks, and there there weren't a whole
lot of people talking about them. But thanks to the Internet,
you know, that was accessible, and it wasn't long before

(54:46):
I found one on campus. In fact, I had a
professor tell me about it, and I went and looked
at it, and it was a hybrid between cherry bark
oak and water oak, and it had intermediate traits between
you know, the two. But what was so interesting to
me is that that tree dropped so many acrons and

(55:10):
seemingly every year. So a way to explain you know,
hybrid vigor is, you know, it's it's like a better
boy tomato. So you get one type of tomato. It
may not taste that great, but it may be really
resistant to insects and diseases. And then you cross it

(55:34):
with another type of tomato that may not be the
greatest either, But but when you cross them, for some reason,
they seem to grow faster, you know, they put down
roots more quickly, and they they may even taste better.
And so that's what we're seeing with oaks, and it's
it's very primitive. It's not like we're doing some kind

(55:57):
of genetic modification. You know, we're just going out in
the woods or riding around and we'll find a tree
that looks different. And oaks are kind of my specialty.
I'm really good at identifying them, and so that helps
find the hybrids. And so I'm just obsessed with riding

(56:17):
around and looking for the odd boss. And so, you know,
same with my boss, Toxy, the owner of Massy Oak Camo.
His name's Toxy Hayes. It's funny, we both kind of
fell into that obsession at the same time. I don't
know how that happened, but it did. And so we're

(56:40):
always on the lookout for them. And you know, we've
we've probably got ten or fifteen different oak hybrids that
we offer at native nurseries for different areas, different site types.
So another aspect is, you know, you may have an
overcup oak that grows in really really wet soils like swamps.

(57:05):
Well it's pollen can land on the flower of a
white oak up on top of the hill. You know,
that's like a favorite acorn, you know, they make they
make whiskey barrels out of them.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
You know.

Speaker 5 (57:17):
It's but it's an upland tree and so you you
cross the two and we all we named it rain
maker oak. But it's an incredibly fast growing oak. They
often produce acorns at a young age.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (57:33):
Deer and other animals just kind of flock to them.
And they're they're not very uh, they're what what we
refer to a site plastic. They'll grow down at the
bottom of the hill and they'll grow almost just as
good up on top of the hill. And so we've
been fascinated with that u but it just kind of
morphed into you know, looking for individual parent trees that

(57:58):
are it's superior in some kind of way. For example,
we go out and find per simmons that drop later
in the fall than your average percentmon and we collect
seed from that. We may find something that drops really early.
We may look for an oak that has really small

(58:19):
acres that would be good to grow in a duck impoundment,
things like that. So we're always looking for something you neque,
but it's been a fun journey for sure.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
Well, no doubt I'm gonna go to a quick break here
because coming back from break, I want you to talk
about some of the easiest planning, fastest growing bang for
the buck trees in yours inventory. If you don't mind,
all right, folks, this break is presented by Mossy Oak
Property's Heart Realty. Paul Thomas is the broker. He's got

(58:55):
all kinds of wildlife management properties Lake and Riverside home
for sale. Check them out at m O p h
A r T realt dot com. Redly, Uh, talk about
some of your favorites in backyard situations for example, or

(59:16):
how it could be beneficial to wildlife and how to
putt and wind the plant.

Speaker 5 (59:21):
Okay, yeah, So we like to be wildlifers both at
the at the hunting camp or at the family land,
uh or in our backyard. And in a backyard may
may be what all we have. Uh you may have
a big backyard that that you could even hunt in,
but uh, around the house, I like to do a

(59:44):
few trees that I can eat myself, you know, like
some of the plums and things. But but they also
attract pollinators, so you can see butterflies. You can see
birds going to eat, you know, eat the insects that
are on the plant. And then you know, a big oak.
You know, somebody may have a feeder in their backyard,

(01:00:07):
you know, so they can see the deer in turkeys
and things. But we all know how expensive a lot
of that has gotten. So you know, why not spend
you know, ten or twelve bucks on a seedling and
that can drop hundreds of dollars worth of feed every year,
you know, and it's just prettier. But as far as

(01:00:31):
had a plant, I like to prep my planting hole
a little bit in advance. So, you know, we all
think of tree plantings almost like it's a forestry thing
where you you know, you may plant it on an
eight by ten spacing or whatever, and they plant those
bear root plants. Ires are a little bit nicer. They're

(01:00:54):
grown in a fancy pot that encourages a really healthy
root system. Uh. And since it is potted, you have
a much wider range of planting time. So uh, even
up in Kentucky, the way the temperatures have been, you
can almost plant all winter ball But the best times
to plant are when the ground kind of gets wet

(01:01:19):
for the winter, so that the leaves have fallen off
the trees in the fall and you start getting a
couple of winter pattern rains. That's a great time to plant.
So that may be sometime in November or early December,
and then those those roots will have they will root
in all winter long and in in early spring, so

(01:01:42):
they'll be that much more drought tolerant. Uh that next
summer when you have a drought spring is also good
as well. Uh, just keep in mind, Uh, you know,
they may be leafed out a little bit, and so
you have to worry about you know, they're just gonna
be a little bit more tender and they hadn't had

(01:02:03):
that time to root in. But that's generally the best
windows in, you know, in most of the South is
late fall and again in the early spring. In the
deeper South, you can plant all winter long. But I
generally like to pre dig my holes. I tell folks

(01:02:23):
to make a miniature pictures mound, So just like a
farmer plant's on top of a road. You want that
nice loose garden like air raated soil. So I usually
just put a pin flag down or several pin flags,
kind of pick my spacing. I'll step back and look

(01:02:43):
at it, and once I've decided that's where I want
them to be, I go and dig it up and
flip the soil over, and I'll even grab a couple
of scoops from off to the side and make it
slightly mounded, and then you know you can plant the
same day. But oftentimes that dirt's gonna come up really clotty,

(01:03:06):
and you want that soil to be loose so you
can pack it in around the root. So I like
to kick it up a notch by doing an advance
and letting that dirt get rained on and all that,
and it kind of melts back into the hole. And
then a couple months later on planting day, you can
almost just use your hand to make a little bitty

(01:03:28):
hole and set the seedling in. Whereas if you hadn't
prefed it at all, you know, you may show up
and it just be clay and come up in big clumps,
and you don't get a lot of good root to
soil contact. So you know, we're not planting hundreds of trees,
We're just planting a few. So you have that extra
time to really go the extra mile, and you can

(01:03:53):
put the plastic cylinders. We call them tree tubes or
tree protectors. You put that around a seedling. When you're done,
you make sure it's in full sun. You do just
a little bit of fertilization and weed control around the tree,
whether that be malch or spray a little circle around
up on the ground to kill all the grasses and weeds.

(01:04:16):
It's not uncommon at all for one of our eighteen
inch tall seedlings to hit, you know, five to seven
feet tall in the first year.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
Suddley, you all do something that's highly unusual and hats
off for the way you all discovered this. You actually
strengthen your trees very early in life. I take them
out of the nursery. Talk about that because that's that's
a really cool part of your process.

Speaker 5 (01:04:49):
Yeah, So we start them in the greenhouse, and it
just depends on the species. We probably grow about forty
different species, and some of them we start earlier, some
them we start later. But we do start them in
a greenhouse to buy us a little bit of time.
But once they have flushed and kind of hardened off,

(01:05:10):
you know, the leaves have gotten big, and then we
move them outside once you know, once spring has hit
and you know danger of frost is gone, and growing
them in the open air like that is how mother
nature does it. But with the wind blowing on them,

(01:05:30):
that will it's kind of like lifting weights. So when
you lift weights, you're breaking those cells down and then
they regrow stronger. And so we do lose a little
bit of height growth with that method, but you have
a thicker stem because it's you know, it's got that
diameter growth from you know, growing those muscles from being

(01:05:51):
in the wind. And then we also adults really spray
insecticides or fungicides. These are not going to look is
pretty as a as a plant on the shelf at
Low's or home depot. We want them to be used
to the rigors that mother nature provide them. So yeah,

(01:06:13):
you might get a few brown spots on the leaves,
you may get a little bit of insect damage, but
don't fear that plant's going to be okay because they're
used to that already. If we were to you know,
treat them with a fungicide the whole time they were
at the nursery and then you go put them in

(01:06:33):
a box and ship them to a different area, they're
going to be way more prone to developing problems because
they're not they're not used to being outside. But yeah,
we we try to keep it as you know, for
lack of a better phrase, mother nature.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
Is possible, yes, sir, well, and it works, Oh, it
absolutely work. And that's something unique about the way y'all
do things do For folks who are backyard type of
people that are used to apple trees or maybe a
peach or a plum. What are some of the wild

(01:07:12):
varieties that are great for wildlife and the fruit section
then you would recommend.

Speaker 5 (01:07:18):
Okay, my favorite, uh is chickasaw plum. And that's I
just jokingly tell everybody you know, that's what your grandmother
made jelly out of. It was kind of a roadside plum.
You'd see them on fence rows. It grows really clumpy.

(01:07:39):
All the quail people love them. That's that's really good
cover for quail. But that's they're good to eat out
of hand. They're good to make, you know, jelly and
preserves with another really cool one. And you know in Kentucky, uh,
they do a lot of research on them. This is
Paul Paul's I'm looking at one and yard. It had

(01:08:01):
its I think it's in its fifth year, and it
had a couple of fruits on it this year for
the first time. But guys, you talk about some good
ice cream, Paul Paul's tastes. They taste similar to a banana.
Some people say it's like banana mango, but it's this
big green, kidney shaped fruit that has this yellow to white,

(01:08:26):
creamy fruit on the inside, and it's just amazing. Trying
to think. Black cherry is another good one. Red mulberry
is one of my favorites. They're you know, they're kind
of like a BlackBerry, but it grows in a tree form.
I was talking to a photographer, a wildlife photographer, and

(01:08:50):
she said that she photographed seventeen different species of songbirds
eating out of one red mulberry in one day. And uh,
you know, turkeys love it, deer love it, and humans
love them too. But those are those are some good,
good examples. And then of course American per simon can't

(01:09:13):
go wrong with that one, you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
Know, Persimmon is one that's uh, it's very very special
because I've never seen any species while I didn't like that,
and I don't care if you're talking about possums, cows, deer, coons,
you name it. Everything loves the including Jimbo strainer.

Speaker 5 (01:09:34):
Oh yeah, I mean you can run that pulp through
like a sieve or a strainer and freeze it. Same
with Paul Paul. You can make ice cream, you know,
like banana nut bread type stuff. I like just eating
them out of hand. You know, You've got to wait
until they're mushy and overripe. But that was one of

(01:09:58):
my favorite things to do when I was kid rabbit
hunting with my dad was when we find a persimmon
patch and get to eat per simmons.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
Yes, sir, and that Paul Paul. Do you fortunately up
here the soils are very very good for Paul Paul growth.
And I'm sure you probably heard this growing up picking
up Paul Paul's put them in your pocket. Oh yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:10:26):
KSQ has done so much work with Paul Paul. So
you could probably call, you know, somebody uh in the
you know, wildlife facility or wherever that program is at
ks U and uh and learn more. And they may
even have offer cuttings and things if you wanted to

(01:10:46):
get into that. But uh, such a cool crop, especially
U you know, in the backyard. It's so fun to
watch the progression of them when you you plan them
and they grow a lot the first year. It's just
kind of addicted.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
Well, Dudley, I'm very very pleased that you could be
on with us tonight, and a lot of things you've
said about the plums for quail, for example. We've covered
a lot of ground tonight and I think folks probably
haven't heard before, and we're indebted to you, and I
need to get you back on here soon.

Speaker 4 (01:11:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:11:25):
I feel like we just hit the tip of the
iceberg here and we you know, we could go on
for a couple hours more. Really, the one thing I
want to encourage everybody to do is pick a little
spot in your yard, maybe a ten by ten area,
and try to turn it, you know, just kill the

(01:11:45):
grass that's there and see what kind of wildflowers come up.
And I guarantee you you'll get hooked on it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
All right, Dudley, I appreciate it. That's a wrap. God
bless everybody.