May 8, 2023 • 15 mins
Maria chats with evolutionary biologist Jonathan B. Losos about his book "The Cats Meow"
Jonathan talks about how cats evolved and why they do the things they do!
It's a fun read and perfect if you're a cat lover or just want to learn more about cats!
Jonathan talks about how cats evolved and why they do the things they do!
It's a fun read and perfect if you're a cat lover or just want to learn more about cats!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. Whata great idea. On iHeart Radio,
Welcome to Maria's MutS and Stuff withme is evolutionary biologist Jonathan Losses. Jonathan,
you are by far the smartest personin the room. I have to
tell you that right from the getgo. Well thank you. Well you
(00:24):
are an evolutionary biologist I find incredible. But I know we are here to
talk about the cats meowt how catsevolve from the savannah to your sofa.
And I know you've written other books, but tell me, because it's about
cats. Was this your most funbook to write? Absolutely? There is
so much fun, cool information outthere about cats, and I learned a
(00:49):
ton and then getting to write aboutit it was just fantastically enjoyable. I'm
sure like a labor of love,right because obviously your cat person so sad
to be this had to be incredible. So tell me what is something that
and you because I just feel likeyou you know so much, and especially
about cats. What's something that youdiscovered while writing this book that you never
(01:11):
knew before. If there's one thing, it might be more, Well,
there are many more. I learneda lot, but the one that comes
to mind. Is I think thatpartly relates to the title of the book.
To me, the quintessential feature ofa cat is it's meow. You
know, That's what cats do,and they meow to us. Anyone who's
(01:32):
lived with the cat knows that thecat is meowing and is trying to tell
you something. Right. I alwaysassumed that cats meow to each other as
a means of communication, and thatthey had just expanded their social network to
include us, right, But itturns out research shows that that is not
the case. That when people studycolonies of unknowned cats living outside and watch
(01:53):
what they do, they do notmeow to each other very much at all.
Really, the meow, the tendencyto meow to people is something that
has evolved recently in the domestic catas part of the domestication process. Wow.
And so I guess that could becompared to how we always talk about
(02:15):
you know, dogs came from wolvesand humans made them change over the years
to become domesticated dogs. So isthat similar with cats, since the meow
is more of a human thing,is it is? Definitely? Well,
let me qualify that. Okay,all small species of cats meowm but they
(02:38):
don't meow to each other, andthey don't meow to people in zoos when
they're raised by people. So thedomestic cat has modified its behavior to use
the meo as a way of communicatingwith us. And they've actually changed how
they meow. If you compare themeal of the domestic cat to that of
an African wildcat that's the ancestral species, the domestic cats meo is shorter and
(03:01):
higher pitched. And when people herethere are asked to compare the two meos,
not being told which which is which, they always rate the domestic cat
is more pleasing that the sound ofthe meow interesting. And so the cats
have changed their meow to better better, to be better received by us.
(03:22):
And that is one part of domestication, just like the traits that dogs have
evolved, right right, And that'skind of fascinating. I mean, I'm
sure the general cat owner does notknow that. And that's where your book
is coming, you know, that'swhy they need to read your book,
because to learn stuff like that.I mean, I think it's pretty fascinating.
So well, there's just all kindsof yes, I agree, yes,
(03:45):
but go ahead, you were goingto say they're all kinds of well,
because they're just all kinds of thingsabout cats that I think people will
be surprised to learn about and howand how we know these things. How
scientists there's a whole group of scientiststhat specialize on studying the behavior and biology
of domestic cats. And we've learnedan incredible amount, right, right,
And so I mean back in theday with cats. They because I mean
(04:11):
we see cats, we see catsin mummies and tombs. I mean from
like a long, long, long, long time ago. So they've been
around forever and evolved from Africa.Correct, correct, Although they haven't actually
been domesticated, Cats around nearly aslong as dogs have been. Cats were
certainly domesticated by thirty five hundred yearsago in Egypt, and maybe a bit
(04:36):
earlier. But dogs, by comparison, have been domesticated at least fifteen thousand
years maybe even forty thousand years ago, So dogs were domesticated a lot earlier
than cats are that the domestic catis a recent addition to the pantheon of
domesticated animals. Do you think isthere a reason for that or it's just
it is what it is. Welldomesticated, So dogs probably were domesticated while
(05:03):
people were still hunter gatherer living ina hunter gatherer sort of way. Cats
weren't domesticated until we settled down andstarted farming. And then what happened is
we uh we you know, peoplegrew a lot of crops and stored them,
and that attracted rodents, and thenthe African wildcats started coming into villages
(05:25):
to take advantage of all these rodents. And then we saw that they were
beneficial and we treated them nicely,and then they evolved to be even friendly
or to associate with us more,and eventually they were domesticated. But it's
a result of our settling down andliving in villages, right right, And
I mean, and of course yousay with rodents, and that's kind of
(05:46):
a fact, right, if youhave a cat, you're not going to
have mice in your house. Imean, they're there. They are very
good hunters. There's a consummate predators. So, yes, you have a
cat, and the chances that youwill have mice as much less, right,
That's yeah though, that's for true, that for sure. Actually,
So I'm assuming like over the overthe years, all the breeds that we
(06:08):
have what we currently have, wedid not have all the breeds of cats,
I mean, to me, thereare so many, and I feel
like that's evolved as well over theyears. Correct, Absolutely, most cat
breeds have been developed in the lastfifty to sixty years. There are a
few, so the idea of havingbreeds of cats at all only goes back
(06:29):
to the late nine late eighteen hundreds, but most most breeds were developed within
the last seventy five fifty years orso. Wow. Wow, And how
many I mean, I don't knowhow many would you say approximately breeds are
today? Well, there are differentcat organizations that recognize different numbers of breeds,
but the most, the most permissiveorganization I think, recognizes about seventy
(06:55):
three breeds of cats. Okay,all right, Well that's fair and yeah,
I mean, and that's a lot. That's a that's a pretty hefty
number at this point, right,yea. And many of them are just
you know, slightly different hair textureor color. But some of them are
quite out there. There's a shortlegged cat called the Munchkin, and there's
the hairless cat called the Stinks thatpeople may be familiar with with. It
(07:16):
was in the Austin Power movies andso on. And there are a few
other really kind of odd cats thathave been domesticated recently. Odd breathe right
right, And can I ask youhow many cats you currently have? I'm
just curious. We have. Wehave four cats. One of them is
at my foot right now w meowingat me. But we have four cats
and they keep us very busy.Was there anything in your book that or
(07:42):
was there anything about your cats thatyou didn't realize until you started to do
all the research. I mean,I know we spoke about the meow,
but until you started to do researchfor your book. Yeah, well,
there are a lot of things.Yeah, my cats do do feature in
the They have a starring role.Probably the most unexpected thing to me was
(08:05):
that one of my more recent cats, named Nelson, we got him a
few years ago, and we gothim we bought a lot of toys to
play with him, and after afew months he was still a kitten,
he started bringing the toys to me. He would walk across the room with
the toy in his mouth. Hewould drop it at my feet and then
look up at me, I meanclearly saying playtime. And then if I
(08:28):
threw the toy across the room,he would madly dash and get it and
bring it back. He was fetchingthe toy and I hadn't trained him to
do that, he just did itnaturally. Well, I thought that was
extraordinary. I'd never heard of sucha thing. I thought that he was
the greatest cat in the world.He is actually the greatest cat in the
world. For other reason. Andyou know, if I had all these
ideas of taking him on the TonightShow or America's Got Talent or something,
(08:54):
well, before doing that, maybeI should just do a little investigation.
And it turns out that people haveducted surveys of people who live with cats,
and these are not unusual traits.Then about twenty percent of cat owners
say that their cats will bring themtoys to play with and we'll fetch and
so cats, some cats do that. But I had no clue of that
(09:16):
until my own cat and Nelson starteddoing it. Wow. And that's and
it's just a random thing. Imean, it just so happens, right,
It's not it's not anything someone cansay, Oh, I'm going to
adopt this cat and then they bringit home and oh, look the cat
is getting its toys. It's justit might happen. It might not right.
It's just a rant like it's likea personality trait. I guess,
yes, well that's exactly it.It's you know why they do that.
(09:39):
I mean, presumably it's a traitthat evolved as part of domestication for some
reason. There are some breeds thattend to do it more than others,
so it's related to breed a littlebit. But it's not like all Siamese
will do that or no Persian cats. It's you know, some in some
breeds, some cats will do itand others won't. Yeah, yeah,
I mean and for people who areI would say, for dog people,
(10:03):
they would say, oh, that'sa cat, that's like a dog.
You know what. People say thatsometimes. Yeah, In fact, we
consider Nelson to be a dog andcat's clothing. Yes, you look at
him and he purrs, and youcome in the door, he comes running
up to you. He's really verydog. Why he is dogging? Yeah,
I have to say that. I'ma cat person. I've never really
understood dogs until now. Now Iget it why people like dogs because they
(10:28):
act like Nelson does. That's reallyfunny. So see you look at that.
So your book not only is hasbenefited cat people, but it's benefiting
dog people as well, to teachthem about cats and cats that are like
dogs. Yes, yes, exactly, No, it's perfect. Well,
I just think it's it's first ofall, I love the cover. Is
(10:48):
the cover one of your cats,by the way, No, it's the
publisher's got that cat. Okay.I argued for my cats, but they
said they could, they would,they would get another one. There was
actually there was never a doubt thatthere would be a kitten on the cover,
but that they came up with thatall right, But it's actually it's
a very adorable kitten. I wasgoing to say, if that was you
(11:09):
one of yours, adorable. ButI feel like the whole book is besides
very informative, it's also it's donein a fun way. I mean,
obviously that was your intent to getthe facts out, but in a fun
kind of way. Well, I'mcertainly glad that you felt that way,
because that was my goal. Youknow, as a scientist, this is
(11:31):
not rocket science. I knew Icould explain it, but I wanted people
to want to read it, tofind it interesting and enjoyable. And certainly
the material is there, there's suchgreat stuff to write about it, and
my goal was to do justice tothat material by making it fun to read.
So I'm delighted you thought it was. Oh no, absolutely absolutely,
And I have to be honest,I like cats, but I'm more of
a dog person. But your bookactually taught me more, taught me stuff
(11:54):
about cats that I didn't know.So when when it's it's for the cat
lover, but it's also for anyone. I think it's for anyone who actually
loves animals because it's very like Isaid, you're the smartest person in the
room, but you actually make itvery entertating for us. So that's very
important. That's very good that youdid. Well. No, but it's
(12:15):
true. But it's very very truebecause sometimes there are books, and especially
because like I said, you know, you're an evolutionary biologists. You're very
smart. You're smarter than many peoplewho roam the earth. But you could
read a paper or a book.And for the person who isn't of the
same you know, doesn't have thesame brain that you have, it's hard
(12:35):
to read or understand, but youmade it. You made it very fun
and informative, and I really Idid enjoy your book. So I just
know it's good. So let mejust ask you this, because this was
fun for you to write, doyou think you would do it again?
Like another with all the research thatyou did that maybe didn't make it to
(12:56):
the book. Well, there isa lot of other stuff to talk about.
And I have enjoyed writing this book. I mean, I've I've spent
my career being a scientist, andI enjoy doing the research and writing scientific
papers. But this is my secondbook I've written for the general public,
and I really enjoy doing so thattrying to make the information accessible and interesting.
(13:16):
And as you said, there's alot of other material that didn't go
into this book. There were topicsthat I wanted to talk about and it
was just too much, right,So I could see writing another book that
that might be fun to do.Okay, good, and then maybe we'll
you will put one of your catson the front, tell the boots that
we want that excellent. I willsay. There's only one photo in the
(13:37):
book, is the last illustration,and it is one of my cats.
Yes, that's true, that's true. And which one is that? By
the way, that is Nelson's onesuch toys very cute. Actually, one
of the things I was very proudof when they sent me the draft of
the book, the Galley proofs thatlaid it all out, and you know,
I read it for typos and everything. I looked at the index which
(13:58):
they put together, and they hadn'tmentioned Nelson or my other cats in the
index. So I made them putall my entries to my cats in the
index. So if we want toread the book and just read about my
cats, it's easy to do.See that, and that's on page three
seventy seven. But the listeners willreally read your whole book before they go
to the index. I think,well, I couldn't argue with you.
(14:20):
Okay, it's the cats, meout how cats evolved from the Savanity your
sofa, Jonathan Lasses, thank youso much for chatting about it. Where
can my listeners get the book?Well, it's any bookstore, Amazon or
independent bookstores. It should be onsale everywhere. Excellent. Well, I
thank you so much for talking aboutthe book. I thank you so much
(14:41):
for writing the book and teaching meand my listeners more stuff than we would
know. And keep doing what you'redoing. And I hope to talk to
you again, because you never know. Part two, Well, that would
be great. This has really beenfun, Maria. I really appreciate you
invited me on your show. Lahas never been a Greader operator and this
(15:03):
time to see you later for theGator
It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. Whata great idea. On iHeart Radio,
Welcome to Maria's MutS and Stuff withme is evolutionary biologist Jonathan Losses. Jonathan,
you are by far the smartest personin the room. I have to
tell you that right from the getgo. Well thank you. Well you
(00:24):
are an evolutionary biologist I find incredible. But I know we are here to
talk about the cats meowt how catsevolve from the savannah to your sofa.
And I know you've written other books, but tell me, because it's about
cats. Was this your most funbook to write? Absolutely? There is
so much fun, cool information outthere about cats, and I learned a
(00:49):
ton and then getting to write aboutit it was just fantastically enjoyable. I'm
sure like a labor of love,right because obviously your cat person so sad
to be this had to be incredible. So tell me what is something that
and you because I just feel likeyou you know so much, and especially
about cats. What's something that youdiscovered while writing this book that you never
(01:11):
knew before. If there's one thing, it might be more, Well,
there are many more. I learneda lot, but the one that comes
to mind. Is I think thatpartly relates to the title of the book.
To me, the quintessential feature ofa cat is it's meow. You
know, That's what cats do,and they meow to us. Anyone who's
(01:32):
lived with the cat knows that thecat is meowing and is trying to tell
you something. Right. I alwaysassumed that cats meow to each other as
a means of communication, and thatthey had just expanded their social network to
include us, right, But itturns out research shows that that is not
the case. That when people studycolonies of unknowned cats living outside and watch
(01:53):
what they do, they do notmeow to each other very much at all.
Really, the meow, the tendencyto meow to people is something that
has evolved recently in the domestic catas part of the domestication process. Wow.
And so I guess that could becompared to how we always talk about
(02:15):
you know, dogs came from wolvesand humans made them change over the years
to become domesticated dogs. So isthat similar with cats, since the meow
is more of a human thing,is it is? Definitely? Well,
let me qualify that. Okay,all small species of cats meowm but they
(02:38):
don't meow to each other, andthey don't meow to people in zoos when
they're raised by people. So thedomestic cat has modified its behavior to use
the meo as a way of communicatingwith us. And they've actually changed how
they meow. If you compare themeal of the domestic cat to that of
an African wildcat that's the ancestral species, the domestic cats meo is shorter and
(03:01):
higher pitched. And when people herethere are asked to compare the two meos,
not being told which which is which, they always rate the domestic cat
is more pleasing that the sound ofthe meow interesting. And so the cats
have changed their meow to better better, to be better received by us.
(03:22):
And that is one part of domestication, just like the traits that dogs have
evolved, right right, And that'skind of fascinating. I mean, I'm
sure the general cat owner does notknow that. And that's where your book
is coming, you know, that'swhy they need to read your book,
because to learn stuff like that.I mean, I think it's pretty fascinating.
So well, there's just all kindsof yes, I agree, yes,
(03:45):
but go ahead, you were goingto say they're all kinds of well,
because they're just all kinds of thingsabout cats that I think people will
be surprised to learn about and howand how we know these things. How
scientists there's a whole group of scientiststhat specialize on studying the behavior and biology
of domestic cats. And we've learnedan incredible amount, right, right,
And so I mean back in theday with cats. They because I mean
(04:11):
we see cats, we see catsin mummies and tombs. I mean from
like a long, long, long, long time ago. So they've been
around forever and evolved from Africa.Correct, correct, Although they haven't actually
been domesticated, Cats around nearly aslong as dogs have been. Cats were
certainly domesticated by thirty five hundred yearsago in Egypt, and maybe a bit
(04:36):
earlier. But dogs, by comparison, have been domesticated at least fifteen thousand
years maybe even forty thousand years ago, So dogs were domesticated a lot earlier
than cats are that the domestic catis a recent addition to the pantheon of
domesticated animals. Do you think isthere a reason for that or it's just
it is what it is. Welldomesticated, So dogs probably were domesticated while
(05:03):
people were still hunter gatherer living ina hunter gatherer sort of way. Cats
weren't domesticated until we settled down andstarted farming. And then what happened is
we uh we you know, peoplegrew a lot of crops and stored them,
and that attracted rodents, and thenthe African wildcats started coming into villages
(05:25):
to take advantage of all these rodents. And then we saw that they were
beneficial and we treated them nicely,and then they evolved to be even friendly
or to associate with us more,and eventually they were domesticated. But it's
a result of our settling down andliving in villages, right right, And
I mean, and of course yousay with rodents, and that's kind of
(05:46):
a fact, right, if youhave a cat, you're not going to
have mice in your house. Imean, they're there. They are very
good hunters. There's a consummate predators. So, yes, you have a
cat, and the chances that youwill have mice as much less, right,
That's yeah though, that's for true, that for sure. Actually,
So I'm assuming like over the overthe years, all the breeds that we
(06:08):
have what we currently have, wedid not have all the breeds of cats,
I mean, to me, thereare so many, and I feel
like that's evolved as well over theyears. Correct, Absolutely, most cat
breeds have been developed in the lastfifty to sixty years. There are a
few, so the idea of havingbreeds of cats at all only goes back
(06:29):
to the late nine late eighteen hundreds, but most most breeds were developed within
the last seventy five fifty years orso. Wow. Wow, And how
many I mean, I don't knowhow many would you say approximately breeds are
today? Well, there are differentcat organizations that recognize different numbers of breeds,
but the most, the most permissiveorganization I think, recognizes about seventy
(06:55):
three breeds of cats. Okay,all right, Well that's fair and yeah,
I mean, and that's a lot. That's a that's a pretty hefty
number at this point, right,yea. And many of them are just
you know, slightly different hair textureor color. But some of them are
quite out there. There's a shortlegged cat called the Munchkin, and there's
the hairless cat called the Stinks thatpeople may be familiar with with. It
(07:16):
was in the Austin Power movies andso on. And there are a few
other really kind of odd cats thathave been domesticated recently. Odd breathe right
right, And can I ask youhow many cats you currently have? I'm
just curious. We have. Wehave four cats. One of them is
at my foot right now w meowingat me. But we have four cats
and they keep us very busy.Was there anything in your book that or
(07:42):
was there anything about your cats thatyou didn't realize until you started to do
all the research. I mean,I know we spoke about the meow,
but until you started to do researchfor your book. Yeah, well,
there are a lot of things.Yeah, my cats do do feature in
the They have a starring role.Probably the most unexpected thing to me was
(08:05):
that one of my more recent cats, named Nelson, we got him a
few years ago, and we gothim we bought a lot of toys to
play with him, and after afew months he was still a kitten,
he started bringing the toys to me. He would walk across the room with
the toy in his mouth. Hewould drop it at my feet and then
look up at me, I meanclearly saying playtime. And then if I
(08:28):
threw the toy across the room,he would madly dash and get it and
bring it back. He was fetchingthe toy and I hadn't trained him to
do that, he just did itnaturally. Well, I thought that was
extraordinary. I'd never heard of sucha thing. I thought that he was
the greatest cat in the world.He is actually the greatest cat in the
world. For other reason. Andyou know, if I had all these
ideas of taking him on the TonightShow or America's Got Talent or something,
(08:54):
well, before doing that, maybeI should just do a little investigation.
And it turns out that people haveducted surveys of people who live with cats,
and these are not unusual traits.Then about twenty percent of cat owners
say that their cats will bring themtoys to play with and we'll fetch and
so cats, some cats do that. But I had no clue of that
(09:16):
until my own cat and Nelson starteddoing it. Wow. And that's and
it's just a random thing. Imean, it just so happens, right,
It's not it's not anything someone cansay, Oh, I'm going to
adopt this cat and then they bringit home and oh, look the cat
is getting its toys. It's justit might happen. It might not right.
It's just a rant like it's likea personality trait. I guess,
yes, well that's exactly it.It's you know why they do that.
(09:39):
I mean, presumably it's a traitthat evolved as part of domestication for some
reason. There are some breeds thattend to do it more than others,
so it's related to breed a littlebit. But it's not like all Siamese
will do that or no Persian cats. It's you know, some in some
breeds, some cats will do itand others won't. Yeah, yeah,
I mean and for people who areI would say, for dog people,
(10:03):
they would say, oh, that'sa cat, that's like a dog.
You know what. People say thatsometimes. Yeah, In fact, we
consider Nelson to be a dog andcat's clothing. Yes, you look at
him and he purrs, and youcome in the door, he comes running
up to you. He's really verydog. Why he is dogging? Yeah,
I have to say that. I'ma cat person. I've never really
understood dogs until now. Now Iget it why people like dogs because they
(10:28):
act like Nelson does. That's reallyfunny. So see you look at that.
So your book not only is hasbenefited cat people, but it's benefiting
dog people as well, to teachthem about cats and cats that are like
dogs. Yes, yes, exactly, No, it's perfect. Well,
I just think it's it's first ofall, I love the cover. Is
(10:48):
the cover one of your cats,by the way, No, it's the
publisher's got that cat. Okay.I argued for my cats, but they
said they could, they would,they would get another one. There was
actually there was never a doubt thatthere would be a kitten on the cover,
but that they came up with thatall right, But it's actually it's
a very adorable kitten. I wasgoing to say, if that was you
(11:09):
one of yours, adorable. ButI feel like the whole book is besides
very informative, it's also it's donein a fun way. I mean,
obviously that was your intent to getthe facts out, but in a fun
kind of way. Well, I'mcertainly glad that you felt that way,
because that was my goal. Youknow, as a scientist, this is
(11:31):
not rocket science. I knew Icould explain it, but I wanted people
to want to read it, tofind it interesting and enjoyable. And certainly
the material is there, there's suchgreat stuff to write about it, and
my goal was to do justice tothat material by making it fun to read.
So I'm delighted you thought it was. Oh no, absolutely absolutely,
And I have to be honest,I like cats, but I'm more of
a dog person. But your bookactually taught me more, taught me stuff
(11:54):
about cats that I didn't know.So when when it's it's for the cat
lover, but it's also for anyone. I think it's for anyone who actually
loves animals because it's very like Isaid, you're the smartest person in the
room, but you actually make itvery entertating for us. So that's very
important. That's very good that youdid. Well. No, but it's
(12:15):
true. But it's very very truebecause sometimes there are books, and especially
because like I said, you know, you're an evolutionary biologists. You're very
smart. You're smarter than many peoplewho roam the earth. But you could
read a paper or a book.And for the person who isn't of the
same you know, doesn't have thesame brain that you have, it's hard
(12:35):
to read or understand, but youmade it. You made it very fun
and informative, and I really Idid enjoy your book. So I just
know it's good. So let mejust ask you this, because this was
fun for you to write, doyou think you would do it again?
Like another with all the research thatyou did that maybe didn't make it to
(12:56):
the book. Well, there isa lot of other stuff to talk about.
And I have enjoyed writing this book. I mean, I've I've spent
my career being a scientist, andI enjoy doing the research and writing scientific
papers. But this is my secondbook I've written for the general public,
and I really enjoy doing so thattrying to make the information accessible and interesting.
(13:16):
And as you said, there's alot of other material that didn't go
into this book. There were topicsthat I wanted to talk about and it
was just too much, right,So I could see writing another book that
that might be fun to do.Okay, good, and then maybe we'll
you will put one of your catson the front, tell the boots that
we want that excellent. I willsay. There's only one photo in the
(13:37):
book, is the last illustration,and it is one of my cats.
Yes, that's true, that's true. And which one is that? By
the way, that is Nelson's onesuch toys very cute. Actually, one
of the things I was very proudof when they sent me the draft of
the book, the Galley proofs thatlaid it all out, and you know,
I read it for typos and everything. I looked at the index which
(13:58):
they put together, and they hadn'tmentioned Nelson or my other cats in the
index. So I made them putall my entries to my cats in the
index. So if we want toread the book and just read about my
cats, it's easy to do.See that, and that's on page three
seventy seven. But the listeners willreally read your whole book before they go
to the index. I think,well, I couldn't argue with you.
(14:20):
Okay, it's the cats, meout how cats evolved from the Savanity your
sofa, Jonathan Lasses, thank youso much for chatting about it. Where
can my listeners get the book?Well, it's any bookstore, Amazon or
independent bookstores. It should be onsale everywhere. Excellent. Well, I
thank you so much for talking aboutthe book. I thank you so much
(14:41):
for writing the book and teaching meand my listeners more stuff than we would
know. And keep doing what you'redoing. And I hope to talk to
you again, because you never know. Part two, Well, that would
be great. This has really beenfun, Maria. I really appreciate you
invited me on your show. Lahas never been a Greader operator and this
(15:03):
time to see you later for theGator
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