Maestro Fresh Wes - Let Your Backbone Slide

'I’m not making records; I’m making history. Today, my man Tony and I made history with this interview." Maestro Fresh Wes.

Maestro Fresh We is credited as the "Godfather of Canadian Hip Hop, " his debut album, Symphony in Effect, was a certified platinum album. In 2023, Maestro Fresh Wes became the first hip-hop artist inducted into the Canadian Music Hall of Fame. His song Let Your Backbone Slide" is the first rap song inducted into the Canadian Songwriters' Hall of Fame.

What did Drake have to say about Maestro Fresh Wes and his influence on him and Canadian music?  What advice did Chuck D of Public Enemy offer?  You'll have to listen to find out.

‘Fresh’ is part of Wes Williams' stage name, and Fresh is how I would describe his perspective and attitude. This story has so many beats. You will take away so much from how Wes approaches life and career. I consider this essential listening for young people as they must diversify and stay relevant throughout their careers.

Stay tuned to the show's end when Mark Beckles, the Vice President of Social Impact and Innovation, returns to Chatter that Matters to discuss First Up by RBC X Music and RBC Future Launch. This is a testament to the role organizations can play in helping Canadian youth find and pursue their path in life.

 

To connect with Maestro Fresh Wes: http://maestrofreshwes.net

First Up with RBCX Music: https://www.rbc.com/dms/enterprise/music/first-up.html

RBC Future Launch: https://www.rbc.com/en/future-launch/

 

 

 

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
When I was 11 or 12, one of my favorite places to hang out
was Dorval Shopping Chatter. And she walked in the door on your right hand side
was Steve's Music Store. That had rows upon rows of
albums. On every wall danced music
posters you could purchase, and behind the cash register were 40 cubicles
that featured the top 40 singles of the week. I can still

(00:27):
remember looking up and seeing Hey Jude. I must have worn that
single to death. I know I'm dating myself because today
everybody has 3,000,000 songs in their pocket. But if I could take you back
to that store for a moment, I want you to picture that above
those albums was a shelf that ran the perimeter of the
store, and on that shelf were drum kits,

(00:49):
electric guitars, amplifiers, and microphones perched in stands.
One day, a purple teardrop electric guitar caught my eye
for $60. Included a small amp, and they threw in the guitar
case and a strap. Now $60 was a lot of money,
but I managed to save. And one day, I brought that beauty home. I had
a vibrato arm, and I thought it was the coolest guitar on the planet. I

(01:11):
took guitar lessons and worked hard to learn my chords. But my
love for music and my musicality were different. But of
course, being who I am, I formed a band with 2 of my friends.
We spent 2 days coming up with our name, Electrical Illusion, and
dreaming about our fame, and about 2 minutes learning how to play House of the
Rising Sun by The Animals and Wild Thing. And I say play

(01:34):
with the greatest generosity. We had one gig playing for our
scout troop. Alan Clark was on the drums. Now Key had talent. He went on
to play music. I was the lead guitarist, well, the only guitarist,
and I won't name the organ player, because 5 minutes before our world debut, he
got stage fright. John Bolton stepped in at the last minute.
Didn't matter what he played. No one could hear a plastic organ with a front

(01:56):
speaker over my amp. We had someone flipping the lights on and
off. After all, we were the electrical illusion. It was undoubtedly
one of my greatest memories combined with one of the worst listening experiences
for the audience. I don't know what happened to my purple teardrop guitar.
Hopefully, it got passed on to someone that could play. But I've always
admired musicians, and I must have seen a 100 rock documentaries,

(02:19):
showing the ones that turned their passions into a career. They didn't always end
well, as it can be a price to fame, but when they were there as
a songwriter, a musician, or a singer, and their music and passion
became a gift to others, it's when magic happened.
To appreciate what you do, and have it appreciated
by so many people. My guest today is a trailblazer, the

(02:42):
godfather of Canadian hip hop. Nice, nice, nice. His name
is Wesley Williams. Key know him by
his stage name, Maestro Fresh West. Let your backbone
slide. Then it slip, let

(03:04):
my rock. It's gonna go 1st offense. All the mix Strap
yourself in because this interview, Maestro shares so
many wonderful stories about his life, but more importantly,
lessons in life. This
is Chatter that matters with Tony Chapman presented by

(03:25):
RBC.
So Maestro Fresh Wes, welcome to Chatter the matters. Thanks for having
me, sir. So oldest of 3 children, Guyanese immigrants, What
brought your parents to Canada and gave us the
blessing of, your artistry? What brought them to Canada?

(03:46):
Opportunities. You know, my parents from, you know, the
Caribbean. They thought it'd be more opportunities here in in North America, in the
wilderness of North America. And, my dad
Chatter, Toronto. And he's a former
graduate of, Ryerson. I guess they call Ryerson,
TMU is now. Key worked for CN Canadian

(04:07):
Railway, and my mom worked at Bell Canada for over 25
years. And I worked extremely hard, man. So enough respect to my family. I'm
the first. Big up to my brother and my sister as well, but I'm the
first. So I I love that I was reading about you, and you
said your world changed that age 11. Your dad drops a
needle on the Sugarhill Gang's Rapper's Delight. Oh my

(04:28):
goodness. So tell me about that. Take me back to being 11 years
old Yeah. And how it changed everything. Yeah. When I heard
that, I was like, wow. These guys sound cool. It was just something that just
was so infectious. And then I heard the breaks from Curtis Blow and
Matters of Life was just the most popular song. So we we had it all
memorized. But there was an artist named, Jimmy Spicer who had a

(04:51):
song called That Adventures of Super Rhyme. And once I heard
that, Tony, I thought I had superpowers. I thought I had superpowers.
And do you say kids something that we all have inside us, or is it
just people really gifted with music that can understand things like
the breaks and sorta get the nuances and and realize that
this isn't just something to enjoy, but this is something to truly consume. Well,

(05:13):
I will say there's, you know, there's people who excel in in
different entities, you know, different different things altogether. Right?
So one of the things with me me being a music fan, I've
I might have been good with putting words together, but, like, to
rap took time to get good at it took time. The first time I ever
performed, was 1979 that my elementary

(05:35):
school. Our Lady of Good Counsel, I was in the 6th grade.
I won I won some poetry contest. It was supposed to be about winter.
Matter of fact, it was around this time back then
when I was 11. Yeah. Like 40, almost. Yeah.
7 years ago, what have you. Yeah. And I I I did it in in
the cadence of Rapper's Delight. That's the first time I rap. It was an acapella

(05:58):
and the crowd went wild. My teacher looked at me like, what in heaven's name
were you doing? I just wanted you to recite it, right?
And from that, you know, grade 8, grade 9, and then grade 10
is when things got to the level where I'm performing at my high
school for the first time, which was Senator O'Connor. And I did
a couple of high school jams and people felt like, Wow, Wes, this is something

(06:20):
you're really good at. And then I had the opportunity to perform
at the same place my dad went to university, which was Ryerson
at the time. Right? And so I was 15 then.
Yeah. Hooked up with, rush out to Ron Nelson. He had a show called the
Fantastic Voice Program. I did a couple, times
with dad, and then there was a there was a contest called the Chatter of

(06:42):
the rappers, Tony. This was that government, which was known as Club Fresh.
I don't know who put that on, but, I formed a group with a good
friend of mine named Marlon Bruce. The group was called Vision and
Battle of the Matters had almost 30 groups who
entered. They picked the top 8 from all over the city. We're
talking Brampton, Mississauga, Downtown, Scarborough,

(07:04):
and I'm proud to say Vision 1. And once that happened,
that's when things really started to steamroll because
I that the stamp of approval from Ron Nelson on radio that I was nice.
But then to get to to start doing shows later on, and
winning the crowd over amongst everybody in the city who was involved in
that, That was a beautiful thing. And that's what helped me propel to, like, you

(07:27):
know that? This is maybe something I can do one day. Did you ever watch
the I mean, I remember watching Eminem sort of biography
Okay. You know why it didn't happen to me? Because my DJ froze,
and so did, my my partner Ebony MC. He froze.

(07:50):
He couldn't move. Like, I'm I'm all over the place. Like, I'm
I'm all over the stage, and I'm like, why is this guy standing still like
that? Like, I I was left, right. I was just and
the crowd went wild. And then after, I'm like, were you okay? He goes, yeah.
I was nervous, man. That's why I couldn't his feet he had cement feet. He
couldn't move. You know, it's funny that I and this is in so small in

(08:12):
comparison to what you're doing, but I remember being in an elementary school play. I
was the narrator. It was the, I think, The Wizard of Oz. And I remember
looking at the audience and seeing my parents beaming and
going, wow. I'm making them proud. I
just felt like I could float. Did you did you get that kind of affirmation
from your parents that that that, you know, I mean, these are hardworking. They've come

(08:32):
to Canada. They've you know, a lot of immigrants want their their kids to be
doctors and lawyers and accountants and finding some security. But what do
they feel about you deciding that that spotlight and microphone was
what what mattered most? Well, my dad was the photographer for my first album
cover. So when you see the cover of the album, Symphony in
Effect, that was shot in the Scarborough basement. We just put a blue

(08:54):
backdrop behind it, cropped it. I rented a tuxedo from Tuxedo
Royale. I got a cello from Steve's Music or Long and McQuade,
whichever one, bought a conductor stick. And I'm like, okay,
quick, quick that Takeaways some photos. So he's been supportive
as much as he could. All things considered
based on the fact Key didn't have a point of reference to look at like

(09:16):
that. You see what I'm saying? He just knew that I was that was something
that I like doing. Know? You know, when you think about it at that age,
you're you know, everybody's trying to find their place as
they're growing up. People are going, that was unbelievable, listening
to you in high school, and then you're moving on. How did he ever realize
that that was going to become more than a hobby or sort of

(09:36):
something I did to get that attention to really you saying,
no, this is the journey I want to pursue? Did you ever have to have
that conversation with him? Or was it more, you know what? This guy's got the
it factor. I mean I think it was the it factor. It was like, you
know, there was no point of reference. Everything showed
me that I was doing the right thing, but you have stumbling
blocks because you're from Toronto, Canada, and there's no points of reference.

(10:00):
So so how could you be be sure? But you don't know. Did you were
you sure that when you stepped on BWI Airlines to
come to Canada, that you would have 100% been successful? You don't
know. Like, you took a shot knowing that this is what you
wanna do for you and your family. And I took a shot at it because
I believed in myself, you know, and and, you know,

(10:22):
like, how cool is it that years later, I'm getting inducted in the Canadian Music
Hall of Fame. So Chatter to me to me, that was something
that that must have happened. You feel me? Definitely. Hey. You know, you
and I both went to Carlton. I only I only got to go for a
year, qualifying year. Glengarry was my residence, but you spent time
there, but you Key a lot of stuff going on. Same as you. I I

(10:42):
did the other year. Yeah. And then after that, I was like, let me take
some time off to work on me. Let me see what I wanna do. You
know? I think when I seen Eric Key a Rakim,
the song was the video was I ain't no joke. That right Three,
that would that was a turning point. When I saw Rakim, I
saw myself because I'm like, yo. And when I met him years later,

(11:04):
I met him years later in Vancouver. And I had a couple of drinks. But
I looked at him, I said, look at my face, family. We're brothers.
We're brothers. Look at me. I I like I like he just looked and started
laughing. And that did I say the name of the song was? I ain't no
joke. So he's no joke, but I made I made the god laugh. You know?
I know if he's laughing with me or laughing at me, but shout out

(11:26):
to the god, MC Rakim. You feel me? So that was that was
a beautiful feeling, right there. So, you know, you talked about your first
album, your debut album, Symphony in Effect. That's the one your dad took the picture
for. Was there any connection between the name in the album and
Maestro?

(11:48):
Synthesizer of culture and energy. So how did that all sort of fuse
together, or was that more coincidence? No. Fused together because it's like when you look
at, like, emcee's, they have Three names. Llcoolj.
You see what I'm saying? Cool g rap. Right?
Big daddy Kane. It was always Three names. So I thought,
like, how cool is it? Like, the Maestro Fresh West.

(12:11):
That's where it came from. And then when I saw that tuxedo at Parkway Mall,
I was like, wow. And Scarborough, I'm like, yo. Okay. Because it was
just gonna be Fresh West because my rap name used to be Melodmc from
about 1982 to about 88. And then when people
started calling me old around 1987, that's
when I said, you know that? Maybe I'll just change my name altogether. And that's

(12:33):
when I reinvented myself and became the Maestro Fresh
West. You see what I'm saying? So I was doing all these things that that
marketing gurus talk about back then,
reinvention and stuff like that. And I knew that the tuxedo
black tuxedo might have been a little too left field for the
average b boy. That's why I created dope state.

(12:54):
That why I came up with that, you know, something more palatable to the average
b boy, you know, with the red and gold with a dope state at
the back, groove in the front. You just have this natural gift
for branding and positioning. And, like, where did that come from? I mean,
that's I guess that's part of being an artist. Right? But, I mean, to be
able to step outside and look at yourself and say, this is how I want

(13:16):
to shape it is not always that easy. It's not. I don't know. But but
these are the things that I was doing before I knew what I was doing.
Like, Three the people write books about that, like like like Brandon and
cross promotion and and trend setting. Like, I I just knew
that coming out of Canada, you know, you gotta be
different. You know, it's not just you can't just be good on the mic. You

(13:37):
gotta be different. You gotta work extra hard. And that's what I really try to
do. Do you think you're dismissed because you're coming out of Canada that where, you
know, the that whole culture is happening in the states? They feel you don't have
the creds to to be on that stage with them, or does that just make
you work harder? Both. But at the same time, my brother Chuck Dean from Public
Enemy said, the mistake he felt that I made

(13:57):
was and a lot not just me. He felt the mistake that
I made as well as a lot of, Toronto or Canadian
MCs. We were just trying to battle with a met with New York.
You see what I'm saying? But you got, you know, he said, you gotta understand
people in New York Chatter with people in New York. There's other parts of the
world too, other parts of the country. You know what I'm saying? I remember him

(14:19):
telling me that, like, he goes, that was he didn't call it downfall from Toronto
MCs, but my logic is if I feel like I'm just as good
that better than anybody, it is what it is. That's rock. You you you feel
me? Yeah. But he's absolutely right. There's other
territories as well. So how did let your backbone slide. I mean, this is
where, you know, you go from being, hey. This kid's got talent

(14:40):
to you can write. You can put something together that's gonna
last. It gets you into a hall of fame years later. Like, how did that
come about? Did you know it was gonna be what it was gonna be,
or it was it just flowed from you? And as Dylan said, sometimes I that
was a time in my life where magic happened. I don't know how, but but
you know? Yeah. Well, I knew back most lie was was let you back most

(15:00):
lie was dope. I knew it. You know? I knew it was conceptually,
something that was was palatable. That was accept was
exciting. And, you know, I performed electric circus and and the legendary dance
artists, from from Florida, Stevie B, just so happened to
be in the much music building at Electric Circus. Right?
When I was performing, he saw me perform. He liked what he heard. He

(15:23):
called Mike Williams over, and he wanted to meet me
and enough respect to him because he connected us with his his,
label at the time, which was LMR Records. So if it wasn't for
Stevie, I wouldn't have been on LMR Records. We were talking to a company
called Your Three Records on BMG, but they just want
a single deal, you know? So LMR had a bigger budget. And you got to

(15:45):
remember years before that, we were trying to shop our demos to Canadian companies, and
they weren't really biting either. So everything happened at the right
time, and I'm honored to still be here. But that was the
foundation and let your back most lies that first single from a Canadian hip hop
artist to ever go gold platinum. This is a throw down, a
showdown. Hell no. I can't slow down. It's gonna go.

(16:07):
1st offense. All the mix. There's
a lot of my listeners. I mean, this show is all about chasing overcoming
circumstances and chasing dreams. Talk about that time where you go
into the offices of these record companies. They're holding the cards. They decide
if there's gonna be a deal. What advice can you give to people when they
have that shot, when they have an opportunity to kind of break that door

(16:29):
down? What do you do to so that they know that they're actually listening to
somebody that's capable of carrying an audience of selling
records versus just an artist that just passionate about what they do. Tony,
what I try to do is is have universally applicable messages
because not everybody's within the parameters of just music. You know, stuff that I try

(16:51):
to do is is, inspire athletes, you
know, people in business, people in different, multimedia
realms as well. And my slogan is don't make records, make history.
Anybody can make a record, but by making history is when you do something and
you say something that resonates intergenerationally and and a
lot of time you gotta sharpen that axe and take time

(17:13):
sharpen in that axe. What I mean was that is, like, I had to take
time coming up with the Maestro Fresh West. I had to find it. I
I that to conceptualize it. You see what I'm saying?
After that was in place, now it's that word mad will always
rhyme with glad, always. The rhyme writes itself. You see what I'm
saying? Once you put time into cook to conceptualize whatever it

(17:35):
is you're doing, right, that's the things that people try to shortcut. They try to
cut corners with that and try to jump into the mix of stuff. I
always state. Do you think that's a problem or a current happening in today's society
as everybody wants to cut corners because it's easy? Hey. I
can rap. I got AI now. Or I can Yeah. You know, like I said,
Malcolm Gladwell 10000 hours of practice. It seems like people wanna do

(17:57):
it in 10 hours. And that's the problem. That's their downfall. And And you might
make a couple of dollars right now, but it's gonna catch up to you because
you didn't put that time in and and you try to cut corners. And it's
it's just bad business practice. It's not good for your personal or professional development. You
know, when I got into acting, I wasn't that good at first, but the that
transferable skills I learned from hip hop was the importance

(18:17):
of repetition will always help your preparation. I had
an audition one time and I had a callback and I didn't go to the
callback. I didn't rehearse the callback because they like me
before. So when I went into the audition, I saw I was totally
new, 13 pages of script, which I never even looked
at. And I I it was the worst audition of all time. My agent even

(18:39):
told me you were horrible. She seen it. And she sat me down and said,
listen, you have to have the same energy you have with music.
You gotta have with this right here. So I just wasn't mature enough to knew
Chatter know that if you get a callback, then I call you back
for the same exact lines. It could be something totally different because they saw what
you had already. Right? But if I stuck to what I learned from hip hop,

(19:01):
which was repetition will always help your preparation, I I would have been
ready because I would have at least looked at it to see
that these are 13 brand new pages altogether.
You see what I'm saying? Do you keep that edge even today? I mean, you've
your name carries it, you know, that you part the Key with it. Do you
still have that same work ethic that says, you know, if there's

(19:22):
a rung out there to grab on, I'm gonna have that I'm gonna be prepared.
Indeed. And one of the reasons I hate to say it, but one of the
reasons is COVID was COVID hit. It was
like, we're scrambling artists ain't performing. How you
live in? So so what I did a lot, I started working with people who
needed help the most, which was the youth. Right? And I feel that God's

(19:43):
rewarded me right now. You know, I put out a children's book, stick to your
vision, young Maestro goes to school. That was that was in
in school systems, here in Saint John, New
Brunswick, as well as Three. What have you? And I did a lot
of volunteer work here in the city of Saint John. The mayor made me an
ambassador of the city. And it's like, I must be doing something right because I

(20:04):
feel I'm being rewarded in so many different capacities. And, you know, finding
that gift within COVID as opposed to just saying, you know,
that opportunities the doors closed and locked away. Because a lot of people
just sort of did that. I mean, some people have looked back at the COVID
experience Three the greatest thing that ever happened in my life is I had to
get on a new tightrope, find it, and conquer it. And other people said

(20:24):
it was the most horrible experience because I, you know, I was denied any opportunity.
Like, what's the what's the difference between someone that makes it happen or just watches
wonders what happened? Tony, I think you made a great point when we first started
a conversation about my parents. My parents, they had to leave,
you know, Guyana to come into the the wilderness of North
America and learn, you know, being 1st generation, you

(20:46):
know, black Canadians here, you know, 1st generation. You know? They're
from Guyana and and having, having their their children being born
here, learning this new land, learning this new territory, learning this new
region, way of life. We that nothing to complain about.
Nothing, you know, at all. So that? We had we had a tough time for
a minute. But like I said, I concentrated more with

(21:07):
youth. I concentrated more trying to be the best father I could
for my my son. And I feel I'm being rewarded right now, man. It's like
a lot of cool things Chapman. I got my TV show now, the Maestro Chef
West, because I don't make burgers. I make backbone sliders family. You know what I
mean? How cool is that? We in season 2, I got race against the
tide. Season 4 happening. CBC is like

(21:29):
I'm doing different things, but the foundation of all that was hip hop. And
I always implement that same mentality. Don't make records, make
history. So when you look back at race against the tide, you'll be like, yo,
he was good hosting that, you know, or you look back at mister d, But,
yo, Maestro is alright. He's a cool actor. He's he's funny, or
he's dramatic, or he's a good author. You see what I'm saying? Because hip

(21:52):
hop was the the the template and the launching pad for all
other things that I'm doing. How important is that to diversify?
Because some people might say, hey, man, you're selling out. You ever find that
critics have come back to you and said Never. Me personally, no. Because, I mean,
musically, you know, I don't know too many emcees who had songs with
social commentary before I did. You know what I'm saying? That being said, you know,

(22:14):
I grew up watching artists like Tupac do
what he did from, you know, making music to act in
or ice cube or iced tea. Right? So I
think I think it's just a natural progression. I I've never had any any
foolishness like that. Like, you know, me personally, I think, there
there have been criticisms because I was in New

(22:36):
York for a while. That's just cause kids over here were younger. They didn't know
Chatter. Because now Drake Drake's living in Calabasas or that if no
one says anything but me back in in in 92. It's like, oh my
god. Like, you know, I I just think people were were young back then. They
didn't know better. That were children, and I was an elder statesman doing
things that they weren't ready to do yet or comprehend at the time, you

(22:58):
know. And I think longevity shows because I'm still here, you
know, in one capacity or the other. Talk to me about A Punch in the
Face and your commentary about Chuck D. The greatest hip hop album of
all time to me is, it Takeaways nation of 1,000,000 to hold us back. That's
Public Enemy's sophomore album came out, I
believe, in 1988, and that changed the whole scope

(23:21):
of sampling, the art of sampling at its
finest, the art of having social commentary
in your music and having a message and to inspire your
community. I've never seen anything like that
before. Other artists, majority of other artists might inspire me
to be a better emcee. But Chuck

(23:43):
D inspired me to be a better human being. You see what I'm saying?
How many MCs can you say do that for you to make you want to
not just be a better MC, but be a better human being?
When I heard, it takes a nation of 1,000,000 to hold us back, every one
of those songs started off with, like, a punch in the face.
And that's what inspired me with Let Your Back Won't Slide. So when you look

(24:04):
at at the very first thing Chuck d said, especially that
album, listen to the words. Here it is. Bam.
Yes. The rhythm, the rebel. Everything had a everything was a like
a punch in the face. So with me, this is a throwdown, a showdown.
Yeah. I love I love this whole fusion and how it's like almost,
you know, Three artists that travels like liquid out a dead end. So, you mentioned

(24:27):
Drake. I mean, you came out with that song 416-905.
And put Toronto on the map, and next thing you know, Drake's talking
about that 6th. Do you think, like, Billy Squire might have
inspired you that you were doing stuff like that that Drake started listening
to and realizing that putting a flag on the
map, identifying with a region is part of what it all the

(24:49):
journey's all about? You gotta ask him about that. But if you do, he'll tell
you that, yeah, I'm one of the people who inspired him as an emcee, especially.
He's let me know that that's probably one of his favorite songs, if not
the favorite song that for Key, for the fact that I'm
representing Toronto. That's something I've been doing from time. It's just that he's
he's so much younger than me that he didn't grow up in the era of,

(25:11):
like, let your backbone slide and stuff like that. He grew up, like, with the
songs that I did, like, in the late nineties and stuff like that. You see
what I'm saying? Yeah. I've I listened to actually a couple of things that he
talked and the tributes he makes to you, are unbelievable.
Yeah. Maestro, again, another another legend, man, another guy from our
city that, broke down, you know, broke down a wall
and had a song that that just went farther than,

(25:36):
went farther than anybody at the time. And then not only that,
416 to the 905 was like it just was like the
first time anyone picked up, like, where we were actually from. You know? And
it's so funny to see people across the world talking about the 6 and
talking about Toronto like it's a it's a destination because at that time, for
making a song called 416 and 905 was, like, insane, you know. Like, no one's

(25:58):
even gonna know what you're talking about.
Key returned my Three takeaways, and
you'll hear how much I enjoy chatting with the 1 and only Maestro
Fresh West.

(26:22):
If I asked you to think about what RBC is doing to support Canadian arts
and athletics, chances are you'd land on their high profile events like
the RBC Canadian Open for golf, the Toronto International Film
Festival, the Olympics, and even their upcoming sponsorship, the Taylor Swift shows in Canada, and
you wouldn't be wrong. But what I think

(26:46):
for the better. For example, RBCX First Up. This is a program
dedicated to providing emerging Canadian artists with a platform that they can
stand on to gain exposure, funding, education, and
mentorship opportunities. RBC Training Ground, where they go across country
and identify potential Olympic talent, and they provide them the funding they
need to chase that podium. For RBC Emerging Artists,

(27:08):
supporting organizations that provide the best opportunity to
advance an artist's career, and in genres that include visual arts,
music, theater, dance, literature, and film. And RBC Community Junior
Golf, it's an initiative led by RBC in partnership with Golf Canada
that is building greater diversity and equity in golf. How? They
provide affordable access for youth from equity deserving communities across

(27:30):
Canada. Yes. RBC will take you inside the ropes at the golf tournament
or on the red carpet at TIFF. They'll create compelling behind the scenes content of
the Olympics, and even a chance to see Taylor Swift. But behind the scenes,
that's where the true magic Chapman. Helping everyday Canadians own
their podium, find their audience, sink their putt to win the Canadian Open, or even
play their music to the biggest stadiums in the world. Arts and athletics?

(27:53):
Well, it matters to Canada, to you, to me, and to RBC.
I think when we start with the heart by understanding that we
can all sort of contribute to, this great Canadian quote, this
great Canadian landscape, I think we are all the better for

(28:15):
it. And when young people, are able then to
bring themselves, to the table and every
skill, every sinew of of talent or of fiber
that they have to advance issues in areas that are in
the best interest of Canada, building sort of that sense of inclusion,
I think we are all the better for it as as a as a country.

(28:37):
Those are the words of Mark Beckles. He'll be joining the show after
Wes and I wrap up in my Three takeaways. Don't miss what he has to
say about the future of you. You're listening to Chatter That Matters with
Tony Chapman presented by
RBC guest today
is Maestro Fresh Wes. He's a walking renaissance

(28:58):
man, inducted in the hall of fame for his songwriting, gifted
artist, author, motivational speaker, and actor.
I wanna talk to you a little bit about the industry now. It seems that
as I'm following it, we talked a little bit about marketing, that today,
artists no longer wanna sing for their supper like endorsement deals. They
wanna own the diner. You know, you look at Rihanna, Jay z, P.

(29:19):
Diddy. I mean, these are people that are now becoming some of them approaching $1,000,000,000
because they decided it's their audience. It's their right
to monetize it versus maybe somebody just coming in and trying to
tuck in on their spotlight. That's gotta be something that's really a positive
thing. Don't you think? Yeah, man. I mean, you gotta understand. Like, all that is
investments. Like, all the stuff that I did with my first couple of albums, those

(29:41):
those are just investments for me to be where I'm at right now. You see
what I'm saying? So I guess with those artists you just mentioned, you know, they
might have done couple of things along the way for their to get
them established. Now they're the level where their their billionaires are
striving to be billionaires based on what they've already done.
Like, all that sweat equity and putting in into rhyming.

(30:03):
You know what I'm saying? Right? Your songs, touring, what have you. You get
to a level where it's like, if you're fortunate and not everyone's like that, but
you're fortunate enough to be like, okay, this is my position right now. I'm based
on this and the that, the value of that, I'm
gonna start doing other things as well. So, you know, you gotta tip your that
off to artists like that. And and talk to me a little bit about trust.

(30:24):
I watch a lot of music documentaries. I don't I mean, ones on, I
watch it. And one of the things that I find is a
common chord is that often trust is broken
between the artist, and I'm not asking you to name anybody personally, but the
people that wanna monetize your talent. Did you find that growing up
that it's hard to really believe that the people

(30:46):
are in your court versus maybe just serving you up
for their court? This is business. You see what I'm saying? If you look at
your contract, your contract says your your labor has the
right to exploit your music. You don't say that
business. Right? My whole thing is I'm looking long term. So if I
know that as we speak right now, I

(31:08):
have potential deals on my table on the table
for songs that I own, how cool is that knowing that the
investment that was made was the stuff that I did in the eighties nineties.
Do you understand? So I'm here right now. You have to understand that
hall of fame, induction. This has put me
in a level where I'm branded in a way where I can do

(31:30):
certain things. What have you? So what I did back then, that was cute. That
was just a launching pad for me to be here. Now I could have fell
off and and said, you know that? Crumble up, and I'm not doing that anymore
and give up and retire, which will be understandable because a lot of my
peers have, you know, and it's it's understandable because
this is this is a tough game, man. You gotta be extremely you gotta

(31:51):
have thick skin. You gotta know when to, like, remove yourself from certain
entities, what have you. But, like, this is where I'm at now, man, you know,
based on what I've done before. So that being said, I'm not
really stressing, like, label stuff. You don't really hear Key. You know, they didn't, they
didn't wanna sign because of my good looks. They signed me because they that,
they thought they'd have an opportunity to make some money. Right. I signed

(32:13):
with them because I thought I'd have an opportunity to make some money from
them. So the fact that I'm still here and doing things
that's so rare is a is a good
thing. You see what I'm saying? So I don't trip over that. Interesting. I just
had Erica Am on my show from the Much Music Days. That was an
era where we didn't just hear the artist Key saw. And I

(32:35):
look at Let Your Backbone Slide. What a fantastic video that is, the
energy, the street, the whole thing. Me, it almost and I hope you don't take
this wrong, but it was almost like that music, man. It was like a New
York musical happening, except with your music. I mean, that just so much
going on. Does that change your ability to
hold on to that artist the next time you come out with new music?

(32:57):
Because you're trying to get those early adopters to stay with you
and to say, hey. I found somebody fresh, and I wanna keep supporting
him, or do they suddenly they they frame you a certain way that it's hard
to move him somewhere else? Yeah. Yeah. You're you're absolutely right because it's
like this is the point of reference. Hip hop tip tactician. Tactician. Like a
slab of clay. That's what they expect from you. And the thing is, there's something

(33:19):
called growth. Right? And,
you know, I realized a long time ago that Chubby Checker,
he's known for the twist. So it doesn't matter if you do a Drake remix
or a weekend remix or a party next door or whatever. When people see
you, they know you're the guy who do the twist. I've been
able to, have some type of brand maintenance

(33:40):
because I wasn't lazy. I worked on acting. I
worked on, you know, other entities as well.
But I made sure that the foundation of everything
I do is hip hop. So there was never been a time when
it was like, I'm retired. Nah. How can you
retire? You know what I'm saying? I never heard Leonard Cohen say he retired. He

(34:02):
just kept making music till he passed away. You know, we're artists. You might take
10 years off, 15 years off, 20 years off. But what we do, we're
artists, and that's what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life. You know
what I'm saying? So I had Three Connick junior on the show, and and he
you know, he'll say the same thing. I'm a jazz pianist. That's what I'm that's
my roots. And he talked about when he got into acting, Matthew

(34:24):
Broderick, I think, was the Chatter. He just sort of took him under his wing
and said, hey, kid. What are you standing over there for? And he goes, what
do you mean? He says, stand by me. I'm the highest paid actor. That's where
the camera's gonna be if you wanna become. Did you have anybody as you got
into acting that kinda took you under your wing and sorta said, let me show
you some ropes. Let me tell you how the system works. Or Tanya Lee

(34:44):
Williams. Really? Tanya Lee William. Yeah. Tanya Lee Williams. People knew her from
polka dot door. And then later on as,
Young and Three Restless, and then later on into Three Real World
film festival. But she was one of the first people to put me under her
wing and just be like, yo, young gunner, young
shooter, my brother. This is what it is. And that's how

(35:06):
she was with Key. That's how I have to be with artists. You
see what I'm saying? And and with actors anyway, especially, but like
how public enemy was with me as an emcee, as
upcoming emcee is how I have to be with upcoming artists.
And do you have to have a two way exchange? I mean, you have to
be open to listening and growing and taking it all in. I mean, is

(35:28):
that part of when you're mentoring somebody is to say, look. I could help
you any which way, but if you're not open to it, we're not gonna create
that energy. Listen. I just give you advice for my for from what I
know, and I don't want anything. I'm good. Just do Takeaways and run with it.
You feel me? Just take this and run with it. But, one thing I have
to to mention as a part of it, what are you talking about right now?

(35:50):
Is, I've established the Maestro Fresh West scholarship. I don't know if you're familiar
with that. Let's just talk about it. Yeah. The Maestro Fresh West scholarship is,
something that I made for black youth who are interested
in learning trades, out of the
Nova Scotia Community Colleges, Acreley campus.
And the reason I chose that, Tony, is because in 2017,

(36:14):
that specific campus gave me an honorary diploma for
the impact that they felt that I've made on under the province.
My book, stick to your vision was a part of mandatory,
reading for grade 10 students, which I was excited
about. It also became a part of of, adult learning
program, and they felt I must have done something noteworthy. So I

(36:37):
figured, you know what? How cool is that to have a scholarship
established at that very same college that gave
me honorary diploma back in 2017? So
we don't have a shortage of rappers, but we definitely have a shortage of black
youth, and, you know, that are involved in trades. And
I figured that I've done a great job of building black music in

(36:59):
Canada. So it would be irresponsible of me not to at least try to
inspire young black builders. That's something that,
I'm excited about, and I'm glad that the NSCC
Acaly campus allowed me to implement that for the 2020 20
the 202024 season. You're getting inducted into the hall of
fame. You've written children's books. Your adult book has

(37:22):
become part of curriculum. You've been a very successful actor,
host. I mean, you got lots of going on and a mentor and a motivational
speaker. Like, do you have a sense of what the next 5 years is gonna
be for you, or is it just the fact that you've got so many things
happening that who you are will just flow? No. I'm excited about what's
gonna happen. I just gotta stay healthy. That's the main thing. Stay healthy.

(37:43):
And my main thing is my my fam. I got a 15 year old
son. He likes me catching his rebounds, you know, in the
morning when he's, he's training and I gotta stay young. I gotta do that. You
know, like I'm a, I've learned to embrace what I've accomplished in the
past, but, you know, you gotta keep it moving. So but I will say this
is something very special. It's never happened before where I'll become

(38:05):
the first and only hip hop artist inducted in the
Canadian Music Hall of Fame. I'm very excited about that. That's something I'm gonna
embrace. That's something that we're gonna, you know, celebrate. Is
that gonna inspire more music from you? Or Absolutely.
Absolutely. The year I won the 2 Juno's, I was I was
nominated for 5. I won for best video. Shout

(38:27):
out to Joel Goldberg for doing such a great job on backbone slide, as well
as drop the needle, which I won. Key Joe Goldberg that been very
instrumental in my career. So I won for
best video as well as for
rap recording of the year. But Tony has also
nominated for best single of the year,

(38:49):
artist of the year and one other one. But Brian Adams, check my butt
and all of those. So anyway, I felt good the fact that I
won these awards, but at the same time, a gentleman by the
name of Leonard Chapman was receiving a lifetime achievement award.
So my Juno was maybe a little bigger than his water bottle, but
Leonard Cohen's lifetime achievement where that had to, it was like the size of a

(39:11):
grand PM. They had to push that on stage. And here I am with my
2, with my 2 little water bottles, like, hi guys. Right. And,
and, and, and watch this in 2013, I was, I
was nominated again for Juno. And what do I see? Leonard
Cohen again, this time for international lab. So even after
he decimated everybody's life with with

(39:33):
with inspiration, with with his lifetime, years years
later, he was still putting out music, still doing
things, and that's how I want it to be. I just wanted to continue
being fun like, like it is right now for me. So, Maestro, I always
end my podcast with my Three takeaways. And first of all,
just to everybody listening, if you have time in their

(39:55):
conference to bring somebody in that's gonna inspire, I have to tell you, you inspired
me. You inspired Key, 1, for your humility. You're always
gracious in talking about all the other people that helped, that you owe it
to, that supported you along the way. And I think that's a great lesson in
life for people that we don't get anywhere, without the
help of people. And the more we're gracious enough to thank them and acknowledge

(40:17):
them, I think the better it is we are as a planet. It's less about
ego and more about being together. I love this whole sense of sharpening your
ax, preparation. I mean, what's such incredible advice that no
matter how gifted you are, no matter how natural you are, no matter how
talented you are, if you're not prepared, if you're not focused, if you're not
honoring the opportunity by giving it your best, then you're

(40:39):
dismissing that opportunity that somebody's offered to you. And the third thing is just
this diversification, the sense that you've just got so much energy when
you're talking about it, and it's just that your eyes are some of the podcast,
they can't see your eyes just lighting up. You know, a children's book, and we
talked about school, and I put the scholarship together. And I just think it's a
life that you know, this isn't a dress rehearsal. And, man, every day,

(41:01):
you're delivering it, including, you know, getting out there under the hoops and helping
your son train. I mean, you know, I mean, all of that is fantastic.
You deserve being in this hall of fame. I'm honored to be a Canadian,
and I'm so happy your parents chose Canada because this country is
culturally better for Wes Williams. And I'm looking forward to,
to your next piece of music and your next body of work, my friend, because

(41:23):
it's been just an honor to have you on That Chatter Manors. Well, hey, Canada
chose me. You know what I'm saying? Canada chose me. And it's a beautiful thing
because I've been chosen now to be inducted, and we're gonna keep
it going. The main thing is don't make records, make history. And today, my
man, we made history for this interview.

(41:49):
Returning to chatter that matters is Mark Beckles. Important title, vice president
of social impact and innovation at RBC. But I can also tell
you, at heart, he's a musician that plays many instruments.
Mark, welcome back to the show. Thanks, Tony, for having me. I know how busy
you've been because it's so hard to get you even to come on that show.
Are you still keeping up with your music? Are you still getting a chance to

(42:10):
play? I am. Yes. It's actually quite therapeutic. I love to come home at
night and, you know, tinkle the, the keys or to play the
bass guitar. Music is is food for the soul, and I love to be able
to do that after a stressful day. I love my interview with Maestro on so
many levels, but first, let's discuss his career. Consider That
Godfather of Canadian hip hop who releases Let Your Backbone Slide, the

(42:31):
1st certified platinum album by a black Canadian artist,
induction now in the Canadian Music Hall of Fame. I mean, what
impact did he have and does he still have on the
Canadian music scene? Maestro,
really, was the trailblazer,
in the area of of rap and because of

(42:53):
Maestro. You know, we've we've seen the likes of
Drake, of Classified, of of Tory Lanez, of Cardinal,
Official, Nav, Chaos, Canon, just to name a
few. But all because Maestro,
Fresh West had the courage of his conviction to
embrace an art form in the Canadian context, which was,

(43:18):
obviously quite new and sort of, engaged in in an
expression of art that was sort that antithetical to the
Canadian arts landscape. But what that did and him
following his passion and really creating from the heart has created this
new movement of young artists who have really
fine artistic expression in the Canadian context and have created space for

(43:40):
so many, others so that his impact goes well
beyond his own body of work. It is this movement that
he has sort of unleashed, not not just on Canada,
but on the on the world. I'm just so proud of him and what he's
done and what he's contributed. Mark, you and I were talking off Three, and you
said one of the things we can't ignore as a he's not just a

(44:02):
trailblazer in music. He's not just the fact that he's just been inducted in
the Canadian Songwriter Hall of Fame. He's also blazed a trail
in terms of making Canada a better country. One of the things
that he has done to use in leveraging his art is
also to sort of engage us in in in civic discourse. And,
you know, as a champion of inclusion, of social justice,

(44:25):
the charity work that he, does, and,
really articulating the imperative that there's room for all of us,
in Canada. And that Chatter comes from a place of great care.
I think when we start with the heart, and we start, by
understanding that we can all sort of contribute to, this great
Canadian quilt, this great Canadian landscape, I think we are all the

(44:47):
better for it. And when young people, are
able then to bring themselves, to the table
and every skill, every sinew of of talent or
of fiber that they have to advance,
you know, the issues and areas that are in the best interest of kind of
building sort of that sense of inclusion. I think we are all the

(45:09):
better for it as as a as a country. I think
sometimes we encourage young people to think of
things in silos as opposed to recognizing
that, you know, their their their their given talents
can all be used together for the for the greater good. You know, the other
thing I was interested about Maestro Fresh West is his his

(45:31):
diversification in terms of talent. I mean, that is he's written kids books, he's
an author, award winning actor, motivational speaker, and
he he never felt he was selling out. And in fact, he said that fact
I could mash all of these talents together made my work
better and made me better. I have to believe that would be
something that with your future launch program that you

(45:52):
recommend to young people that that don't just follow one trail,
embrace many doors that open. Absolutely.
Absolutely. You never know the opportunities that are that are come gonna
come your way, and you have to be prepared for them. And the ones that
you aren't prepared for, you have to embrace anyways because
they are coming. And those opportunities

(46:15):
are opportunities to grow. Those are opportunities
to engage. Those are opportunities to
really embrace life, in its, in its fullest.
And, you know, through future launch, and when we talk about empowering young
people for the future, it really is about
empowering that, not just for the jobs of tomorrow, but the

(46:37):
opportunities or opportunities in all their forms such that
they can sort of approach them, confront them with all
the gusto and courage in the world, and be the best
version of, of themselves. And whether that is art, whether that is
engineering, whether that is, finance, banking,
insurance, skills trades. I tell you,

(47:00):
Future Launch is all about unlocking the potential of of of of young
people, and I am incredibly proud of what that program has been
able to deliver. Almost 7,000,000 young people who
have participated in future launch programs in the last
7 years where we've invested, you know, just under $500,000,000,
today. The stories that young people are telling us about their

(47:23):
readiness and even through the challenges that we
are facing today where, sadly, young
people are still overly represented in the
unemployment numbers, in Canada,
young people are still feeling a sense of purpose and courageousness
in saying, notwithstanding that reality, we are gonna press on. We're gonna

(47:46):
find our way because we know the opportunities are out there. I'm proud of
Future Launch being able to, enable that sort of, sentiment and
mindset. What's happening with RBC Firstup? We often think of
RBC in terms of Taylor Swift and Tiff and golf and the big
events, but what I love is what happens behind the scenes, giving
ordinary people a shot at being extraordinary with their passion.

(48:08):
So tell me about FirstUp. So RBC FirstUp, was a
program that evolved, out of the
COVID pandemic where creatives across the country,
because they could no longer perform in person, their livelihoods
were affected and so on. And so we created RBC First Stop where
where creatives, artists, of all of all

(48:31):
genres, were then able to still engage in their artistic
expression and make a living and whatnot. We learned from that
the power of art that, you know, that artists were small
business owners. They were entrepreneurs. They needed access
to legal counsel to protect their,
intellectual, property. A whole range of things. But

(48:53):
we also learned that artists contribute over
$50,000,000,000 in GDP to the
Canadian economy. And so RBC,
First Stop, continues to build that pipeline
of talent that creates opportunity for
them to showcase, their capabilities, you know, at

(49:16):
concerts, different venues.
We partner with a range of different organizations to ensure
that artistic expression Three
young, Canadian artists or indigenous artists,
artists across the spectrum have this opportunity to pursue
their passion and their calling and what I often

(49:38):
describe as their expression, their own expression of
life, in a way that is rich, in a way that sort
of allows them to not only make a living,
but, you know, be the full embodiment of who they are as as
as individuals. And, you know, I I keep thinking,
what if RBC First Stop existed

(50:01):
back in the day when Maestro Fresh Wesh, was, was,
was starting up, We might have had more Drakes. We would have
might have had more Canons. We might have had more Cardinal officials. We
might have had more far deflectors. We might have had more shots, NAS,
classifieds. The list goes on. And that is
why Maestro's contribution is so important,

(50:23):
and that is why we need RBC First Step. Mark,
it's always a pleasure to have you on. It would be a a
blatant conflict of interest, but I would love to just do a show with you
because I know what your roots are. I know how far you've come. I know
how much you give back, not just in terms of your role with
RBC, but it's, it was so many, not for profit

(50:43):
events and stuff. So it's just always a pleasure to chat with you, my friend.
Thank you, Tony, and all the best to you. Chatter that matters has been a
presentation of RBC. It's Tony Chapman. Thanks for listening, and let's
chat soon.