October 31, 2024 • 26 mins
After no less than 5 name changes, and a revolving door of band members, by the year 2000, budding R&B group Destiny's Child were finally in their most recognizable form as a three-piece.
By the time the album cycle for their third record 'The Writing's on The Wall' Destiny’s Child had two #1 singles in “Bills Bills Bills” and “Say My Name,” while “Jumpin’ Jumpin’” would reach #3, and “Bug-A-Boo” would be recognized for its boundary-pushing production. The Writing’s On The Wall would go on to sell more than 13 million copies and become one of the biggest R&B albums of all time. Destiny’s Child were on top of the world. And they weren’t about to stop. In October 2000, they released a song called “Independent Women Part 1,” an empowering anthem recorded for the Charlie’s Angels movie starring Cameron Diaz, Drew Barrymore and Lucy Liu. That song held the #1 for 11 consecutive weeks, becoming the group’s biggest song to date and the Guinness Book of World Records’ longest-running number-one song by a female group.
While all this was happening, Destiny’s Child were wrapping up the recording of their third album - and it was about to take them down a path of even bigger superstardom.
This is the story of Destiny's Child's 'Survivor' with newly unearthed audio from the group!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Encore. The stories behind the songs. Here's Ihe
Radio's Miles Galloway
as with every episode of Encore, I'm not gonna give up.
I'm not gonna stop, I'm gonna work harder. I'm Miles Galloway.
And this is the story of Destiny's child's Survivor.
(00:23):
You know, one of the best things about doing a
show like Encore is learning some of the smaller, more
inconsequential facts that come with researching artists and their careers.
Previous examples being how Bruno Mars was an Elvis impersonator
from the age of two years old or that Adele's
name is pronounced Adele, not Adele for this week's episode,
(00:43):
but I'm just gonna jump to the fact that I
find straight up fascinating. How about this one? Destiny's child
was actually the sixth name used by the iconic girl group.
That's right before they settled on Destiny's child. They were
known by five other names. First. I'm gonna make you
wait a bit before I reveal them. But I'm willing
to bet that most of you were unaware of this
(01:04):
uh before they were a group, the members of Destiny's
child were just young girls growing up in the city
of Houston, Texas, one of the members. Beyonce Knowles might
have heard of her
was a budding young star who was always singing and dancing.
From a young age. At the age of eight, she
began taking dance lessons and once her teacher heard her sing,
she asked Beyonce's parents, Matthew and Tina Knowles if she
(01:28):
could enter young Beyonce into a school talent show. Unbeknownst
to the parents, they had a future superstar in their home. Naturally,
Beyonce won the contest and kept going later winning the
Sammy Davis Junior Award at another
Houston based talent show, Beyonce then went through a series
of auditions before she was asked to join a new
girl group that was being formed called Girls Time Time
(01:51):
spelled Tyme. Of course. At first, there were three members
including Beyonce, Tama Davis and Latavia Roberson. But later they
grew to six after adding Calenda Kelly Rowland, who was
now living with Beyonce's family and sister,
Nicky and Nina Taylor. The group of eight and nine
year olds got their start singing well known pop and
(02:12):
R and B songs at local talent shows. Eventually, a
woman by the name of Andretta Tillman invested both her
time and money in girls time becoming their manager. The
girls watched tape on iconic groups before them like the
Supremes and Jackson five learning their dance routines and how
to move on stage and recording their performances to critique them.
They would often practice at the hair salon
(02:33):
owned by Beyonce's mom, Tina who would help them with
their look and eventually design their costumes. Speaking to Mar
Music's Jayna Lynn White in 2000, Beyonce and Kelly explain
why performing at the hair salon was so important to them.
The main goal was to try to get to Astro World. Exactly.
(02:56):
We've basically been rehearsing all week long. And so
I guess our test, we'll say that that was basically
our test when we went to the hair salon and
we could get the routines right and get the dancers
right and get all the parts right. That was like
our time, you know, to get our rehearsal, we rehearsed
all week and then at the end, if we could
perform it in front of the hair salon and do
(03:17):
a good job. And we were like, all right now,
we can be rewarded and go to Astro World
in 1992. A producer named Arnie Frager took an interest
in girls time arranging a recording session at plant recording
studios in California and giving them what they thought would
be their big break, an appearance on Star Search, a
reality talent competition show. You may remember from our episode
(03:40):
on Aliyah's try again,
introduced by host Ed mcmahon as the hip hop rap
in girls time. The song they performed leaned more new
jack swing for a bunch of 11 year olds. It
was pretty impressive. But girls time lost out to some
rather lame power balladeers. The returning champions skeleton crew following
the loss on Star Search Beyonce's dad, Matthew became more
(04:03):
involved in the group. According to sources, he threatened to
remove Beyonce
from girls time if he wasn't made co manager alongside
Andretta Tilman, who had been diagnosed with lupus a disease
that made managing a young group of R and B
singers tough around that time, LaToya Luckett joined as the
seventh member, but Matthew felt there were too many members
(04:26):
of girl time. So he turned the group into a
quartet that featured LaToya Beyonce Kelly and Latavia. He also
set up a
boot camp that consisted of dance and singing lessons throughout
the summer, working with a model to walk in high
heels and get the media savvy to pull off interviews.
He also made them sing while they jogged through the park,
(04:47):
building up their stamina for future performances. And those came
soon with girls time securing opening slots for more established
acts like Immature Drew Hill and SWV, who took it
upon themselves to mentor the young girl group
as things began to pick up for them. Matthew quit
his job selling MRI and CT scanners to focus on
the group full time and try to score them a
(05:09):
record deal. Like I mentioned at the beginning of this episode,
Destiny's Child underwent more than your average number of name
changes before they finally reached the one that would stick
girls time. Of course, being the first but then came
something fresh cliche the dolls and finally Destiny, which was
the name they used when they signed a record
(05:29):
record deal with Electra Records. But that didn't come easy.
Matthew was sending out promo packages to record labels while
also setting up showcases for the girls to perform for
record executives. One of them, Teresa LaBarbera whites, the head
of A and R for Columbia Records who did show
interest but ultimately didn't sign them.
But thanks to a production deal with famed R and
(05:51):
B producer Darryl Simmons, Destiny finally got that all important
shot with Electra in 1995. But it didn't last long
months later, Sylvia Roone, chairwoman and CEO of Electra decided
that she already had En Vogue and that the label
didn't need a second girl group. Destiny were dropped by
the label. But as they say, when one door closes
(06:13):
another door opens,
here's Beyonce. And the cool thing is before we sign
with a lecture, we had a choice to sign with
either Colombia or a lecture. And we went with a lecture,
but my dad maintained a relationship with Teresa R A
and R person for Colombia. So when she found out
we were dropped, she was like, all right now, y'all
can sign with Colombia. So we did a showcase for
them and um they signed us and then we started
(06:36):
working on the next album which took two years, which
is a very long time.
So we were 15 like 14. When we recorded some
of the songs, we went on the Men In Black
soundtrack and changing their name was important in signing a
deal with Columbia. So they looked to the good book
for inspiration and thus Destiny's child was born. We were
Destiny when we were signed with Columbia, but it was
(06:57):
so many other groups with the name Destiny, we added child,
which is like a rebirth. And um we got Destiny
out of the Bible. We, because Columbia was like, listen,
y'all wanna sign y'all need a name because we hated
our name. It was terrible. It was the dolls. And
um we were like, all right, what better place? The Bible?
We opened it up, picture fell out right. There was Destiny.
(07:19):
And um we're like, all right then my dad wanted
to make sure it wasn't any other groups with the
name Destiny. So he went to get the name proved
and everything and it was like 50 other groups. So
child became Destiny's Child. We went on a mini black
soundtrack which did well, but a lot of people don't
even know that was us on that
with an album's worth of songs they'd recorded in Oakland
(07:41):
with Dwayne Wiggins. A member of Tony, Tony. Tony Columbia
wasted no time getting the word out about Destiny's Child.
One of the songs they'd recorded Killing Time was included
on the soundtrack to Men In Black alongside names such
as the movie star Will Smith, a tribe called Quest
Nas and another R and B newcomer Alicia Keats. Sadly,
around this time, Andretta Tillman, the group's original manager passed
(08:03):
away from her battle with Lupus. Unfortunately,
she wasn't able to see the group take off which
they did later that year when Destiny's Child released their
debut single. No, no, no. The song which was almost
given to teen singer Brandy came out in two parts
with one featuring Wyclef J of the Fujis and was
a phenomenal success. Reaching number three on the hot 100
(08:25):
in the US. The group performed the song during their
first visit to the much music environment in Toronto where
VJ Juliet Powell asked them what led to forming a group.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
But why did you decide to form a band as
opposed to going solo?
Speaker 1 (08:39):
I don't think any of us could be solo.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
We've
Speaker 1 (08:43):
been
Speaker 2 (08:43):
known
Speaker 1 (08:43):
each other for about 9, 10 years now. We've been
knowing each other since elementary school and we grew up together.
We love each other. I couldn't imagine going solo. I
don't think anybody could. It's, it's just like they're a
part of each one, each one of us, a part
of each one of us. So we really do love
each other. We,
we all believe that we're destined to be Destiny's Child.
(09:05):
Destiny's child's self titled debut album arrived in February 1998.
And while it didn't exactly do big numbers, the album
would sell over a million copies in the US and
establish the group as a new artist to watch out
for soon. They were opening up for TL
Fan Mail tour across North America and winning three awards
at the Soul Train Lady of Soul Awards. But the
(09:27):
girls weren't entirely satisfied by what they had achieved. Beyonce
would later tell The Guardian, the first record was successful
but not hugely successful. It was a neo soul record
and we were 15 years old. It was way too
mature for us.
Destiny's Child wasted no time moving on to their next album,
but changes were afoot. The first was their sound. They
(09:48):
brought in the songwriting and production team of Timberland and
Missy Elliott who at the time were reinventing R and
B by taking it into the future. They gave the
girls a song called Get On The Bus, a slick
contemporary R and B song with the duo's signature sound
of stuttering kick, drum, heavy beats and rap singing vocals.
Get On the Bus wasn't a hit for Destiny's Child,
but it was a blue
(10:08):
for them to follow. For album number two. In the
writing process, the girls began to take more control of
their songs, bringing in a number of producers to help
achieve their vision, including Missy Elliott, Rodney, dark child Jenkins,
who had scored a massive hit with the Brandy Monica duet.
The Boy Is Mine and Kevin Shakespeare Briggs, who was
just about to give TLC one of their biggest hits
with the boundary pushing no scrubs. Destiny's child were in
(10:31):
good company which helped them discover a sound all of
their own.
In July 1999 Destiny's child released their second album, The
Writings On The Wall. The title was given to them
by friend Wyclef. John Kelly would tell Jet Magazine when
we were looking for a title, we had that name
and another, we asked Wyclef which was tighter. He said
the writings on the wall sounds really cool. Then he
(10:53):
went into a story about Moses finding the 10 commandments
on the wall. He said, add that to Destiny's child's
commandments of relationships which will mean something big is about
to happen
with its skittering quadruple time beats and stuttering vocal phrasing
writings on the wall, turn Destiny's Child into superstars. But
you know how these stories go just as the album
(11:14):
was taken off, the group was falling apart behind the
scenes literally before the end of the year, Latavia Robertson
and LaToya Luckett wanted a new manager filing a lawsuit
that Dis Matthew Knowles as manager for his quote, green
insistence on control, self dealing and promotion of his daughter's
interests at the expense. There's no denying Beyonce was becoming
(11:36):
the de facto leader and face of Destiny's Child. You
could see it in how she was being presented in
promotional photos and especially the album covers on the first album,
Beyonce was positioned on the right quite unassuming yet on
the writings on the wall cover.
She was front and center assuming her position as the
key songwriter and lead voice of the group. Earning her
(11:56):
comparisons to Diana Ross's role in the Supremes. In an
interview with Entertainment Weekly Dan Workman who engineered the album
revealed what the pecking order was in the group. Saying
when we were doing the writings on the wall, it
became really obvious to me that the heavy lifting was
gonna be done by Beyonce and that Kelly Rowland was
the closer
the other girls weren't as talented and were not as
(12:17):
involved in the creative process.
In response to the suit Matthew Knowles claimed Roberson and
Luckett were simply imaging more than talent. And so just
like that, he replaced the two of them with Farrah
Franklin and Michelle Williams as harsh as that was. No
one even told Roberson and Luckett they didn't find out
they'd been replaced until they saw the video for, say
my name on MTV in February 2000 featuring Farrah Franklin
(12:39):
and Michelle Williams lip syncing their parts. This being America naturally,
they sued Matthew Knowles
and Destiny's Child for breach of partnership and fiducial duties
seeking unspecified damages. The media picked up the story which
found both parties engaging in a war of words, the
two ex members would remove Beyonce and Kelly from the
(12:59):
lawsuit targeting Matthew instead. And eventually the case was settled
with Robertson and Lake receiving royalties for their contributions as
founding members of Destiny's Child in exchange for never ever
talking about it in public.
Things were beginning to calm down as the girls were
joining Christina Aguilera's tour in the summer of 2000. But
then more drama ensued. It was announced that Farrah Franklin
(13:21):
would be leaving the group after just five months. According
to Beyonce Franklin was asked to leave after she missed
multiple promotional appearances and concerts. Matthew addressed the media saying
Destiny's child is gonna be fine.
We've done three or four shows already without Farah and
they've been phenomenal. Of course, there were two sides to
the story and Franklin claimed that she actually quit the group.
(13:43):
She would later tell the Boom Box, it was really management.
They didn't handle things properly is how I was feeling.
I was 18 years old. So I didn't have that
many people I could go to for advice and talk to.
There were things happening that I didn't approve of. There
were things happening that they weren't happy about. There were
rumors put out that I was missing shows and I
(14:03):
never missed a show ever. Despite Destiny's Child. Now being short,
a singer, the new trio were content with their new sights.
During an interview with much music's Nadine Ramki, the group
expressed their excitement over now having three singers who could
really sing. Hey, you know what the great thing about
us
being a threesome now everyone can really sing. Oh, no doubt.
(14:26):
And there's no other groups. Usually you have a lead
singer or, or maybe even two singers, but now everyone
can really sing in the end. That's just a good thing,
Beyonce throwing some shade. Ouch in all fairness to everyone involved.
I mean, I do think Destiny's Child works best as
a trio and I guess everyone else did because once
Farah left the group, they really exploded into one of
(14:48):
the biggest acts in the world. So I guess you
could say that in order to get bigger, they had
to get a bit smaller. First, Beyonce elaborated on what
it meant for Destiny's Child to be a three piece
in an interview with much music's Jane Ely White explaining
how it took pressure off her to be the main
vocalist in the group.
It's refreshing. It's wonderful, especially for me because now it's like,
(15:10):
not as much pressure and, and it's so cool because
if somebody misses something, somebody's horsing and somebody's right there
to pick it up and everybody, it, it adds so
much to the group when it's um three people with
their own personality and their own look and their own sound.
But each person's sound is strong. So like her voice
is really soulful and old school and it's, hers is
(15:33):
real soft, beautiful and sultry
and I do all the crazy runs and all that.
So it's just really cool to get the three different
types of voices and put them together and they all compliment.
Um We complement each other so much. By the end
of the album cycle, Destiny's Child had two number one
singles in Bills, Bills, Bills and say my name. While jumping,
(15:53):
jumping would reach number three. And Bugaboo would be recognized
for its boundary pushing production.
The writings on the wall would go on to sell
more than 13 million copies and become one of the
biggest R and B albums of all time. Destiny's Child
were on top of the world and they weren't about
to stop. In October 2000, they released a song called
(16:14):
Independent Woman Part One, an empowering anthem recorded
for the Charlie's Angels movie starring Cameron Diaz Drew Barrymore
and Lucy Lou. That song held number one for 11
consecutive weeks becoming the group's biggest song to date and
the Guinness Book of World Records, longest running number one
song by a female group. It still is, by the way,
(16:34):
looked it up just the other day.
Not only did Destiny's child kick the year off, holding
on to the top spot of Billboard's Hot 100. They
also scored big at the Grammy Awards in February. No
longer a new artist on the scene, Beyonce Kelly and
Michelle took home Grammys for Best R and B performance
by a duo or group with vocals and best R
and B song both for say my name while all
(16:57):
this was happening. Destiny's Child were wrapping up the recording
of their third album, Beyonce wasn't actually too pleased
about rushing another album. Telling Billboard, there was not even
10 minutes between the albums which I was kind of
upset about. At first, I felt like we needed a
fair shot at making this record. We wanted a little
bit more time to vibe the songs out and concentrate
(17:17):
exclusively on the process of making this record. We didn't
even have two consecutive days of recording. We did it
completely on the fly. It was very hard, but it
ultimately worked out well. It's a testimony to how close
we've become as a group,
group. We managed to have a great time working on
this album. As a team, Beyonce took over lead songwriting
and production duties for the album. Signaling the singer songwriter,
(17:39):
producer and global superstar. She would become just years later. Initially,
she only planned on writing three songs, but she ended
up writing and producing all 15 of them. Kelly would
tell vh1 a great thing is Beyonce is a writer
and a producer. She'll open up the doors to younger
female
writers and producers. Here's a fun fact about the making
(18:00):
of Destiny's Child's third album. The band ate so much.
Popeye's Chicken. The restaurant gave them all lifetime membership cards. Also,
Michelle Williams claims it sounds like they ate a lot
of chicken making the album as she would tell Entertainment Weekly,
ordering a lot of Boston markets, rotisserie chicken, sweet potato casserole,
and cornbread. While also snacking on chips, candy and smoothies.
(18:21):
Now that is how you do it.
You think the album's lyrics were all about food. But
this time around Destiny's Child focused less on diamonds and
champagne and more on the deeper things in life carrying
on with the themes of strong empowering femininity. They began
with independent woman, which was included on the album in
two parts. They wanted to make an album that spoke
(18:42):
to the modern woman. Beyonce told much. Music's Jenna Lyn White. Well,
I know, um when you first come out, there's, you
have to be
commercial and you have to get your songs played on
the radio. And um we did that with the writings
on the wall,
this album. Now that people listen to what we have
(19:04):
to say, we wanna say something deeper than just pay
my bills and say my name. And that's why we
s we did independent women, which meant something really serious
and congratulated women for being independent and strong and um
taking care of themselves and working hard. And um
all the single parents, all the young women, everybody that
(19:27):
accomplished what they wanted. They celebrated that just being a
strong woman. They called the third album, Survivor as a
response to a joke made at the expense of the
group's revolving door policy resembling the then new reality competition show,
which if you don't remember had quite the water cooler
moment in 2001, speaking with MTV. Beyonce said, I thought
(19:47):
about this joke that this radio station had and they
were saying, oh, Destiny's child is like, Survivor trying to
see which member is gonna last the longest on the island.
And everyone laughed and I was like,
ah, that's cute. But you know what, I'm gonna use
that negative thing and turn it into a positive thing
and try and write a great song out of it.
And there was more to it than just responding to
a Jibe. The group extended the title to relate to
(20:07):
any type of survival, whether it's enduring the hardships of
being in a girl group and facing critics or battling
a terminal illness. They wanted their fans to claim it
as their own. As Beyonce would tell much music, the
Survivor
um celebrate it just surviving anything if it's cancer, if
it's A I DS, if it's just being a teenager,
if it's going through losing your job or whatever, it,
(20:30):
it just really makes you feel like you can work
harder and accomplish anything. And with the whole album, that's
why we named this Survivor. We even, we go to
child molestation. It was a, a young girl, send a
fan letter to Destiny's child saying she was molested by
her stepfather and we really re
helped her because no matter what, we always smiled, we
(20:52):
always were positive, we always knew that those struggles just
made us who we were and it just made us
better People. Destiny's Child released the title track from their
third album on March 6th, 2001. As a statement, the
song was written by Beyonce, her father and producer Anthony Dent,
who originally made the instrumental for rapper Lil Kid. But
after hearing it, Beyonce reportedly wrote the lyrics and melody
(21:14):
for the song
on a flight in between dates on their tour with
Christina Aguilera. It would lead the way for the rest
of the songs on the album which inspired them to
write about other ways to be strong and take control
over your life. However, Survivor also didn't hold back with
its message. The now three member group took shots at
their former members with lines like I'm not gonna blast
(21:35):
you on the radio. I'm not gonna lie on you
or your family. I'm not gonna hate you in the
magazine and you thought I wouldn't sell
without you sold 9 million and well, it cost them
LaToya Luckett and Latavia Robertson sued the group for disparagement,
claiming the lyrics violated their previous settlement. But once again,
the case was settled out of court. But despite that
(21:55):
small setback, the song was an immense hit for Destiny's Child,
both in the charts and in the lives of their fans.
It reached number two on the hot 100 staying there
for seven straight
weeks and won them a Grammy for Best R and
B performance by a duo or group with vocals, perhaps
even more important was how their song was embraced and
even adopted as an anthem for people to survive difficult
(22:16):
circumstances in their lives. Michelle Williams told Entertainment Weekly, we
got fan letters that said I've been bullied, but I
put on Survivor before I go to school and it
takes the fear away. The legacy of Survivor is sisterhood
and empowerment.
When the World Trade Center was attacked by terrorists on
September 11th, 2001. Survivor by Destiny's child still in heavy
(22:39):
rotation at the time was given a second life becoming
an anthem to help a nation grieve and show solidarity
and strength. According to the group, the video for Survivor
tested their ability to survive in
frosty temperatures directed by Darren Grant and shot in L
A in the dead of winter. The video sees the
three members on a set like the reality show, the
(22:59):
same name. They're crawling on the beach, walking through the
jungle and dancing in less clothing than one might want
to at that time of year. Thanks to Tina Knowles,
constantly cutting down their wardrobes to get skimpier and skimpier.
The group told MTV News about the video shoot. They
definitely made sure that we were survivors. We gonna sing
about it and talk about it. They wanted to play,
(23:20):
the water was so cold. We made it look like
it was just hot outside. I know when Beyonce went
out first, it was like 40 degrees and to our
understanding it was the coldest day in L A history.
So it was very, very cold, but the video turned
out excellent. Darren Grant did a spectacular.
(23:42):
So I mean, it was just a, a video full
of strength and power. This was a song we made
sure that it was Survivor based. And of course there
were some bloopers
because we had so many water scenes. We had wigs
that were styled exactly like our hair. So you can't
(24:03):
tell the difference between when it's our hair or when
it's the wigs because we didn't have time in between
the set because we had so many different scenes to
dry our hair and blow dry it again, curl it again.
So whenever we had water scenes, we put the wigs on. Anyway,
we had the helicopter scene,
the helicopter comes close and Kelly's wig flies completely off
(24:23):
of her head and we're running. They think we're running
away from the helicopter because the sand is beating us,
but we're running after her wig like
it was so funny. It was. But you would never tell,
you could never tell because her hair was light up
under there. And every time we watch the video when
we see that scene, it just cracks me up because
(24:45):
all you see is just picture Kelly running at that
wig and I was like hold on some extra air
coming in from somewhere
Michelle would later reveal on Good Morning America that the
three of them basically had pneumonia after that video shoot
and was sick for days. But I suppose it was
all worth it. In the end. The now iconic video
won best R and B video at the MTV Video
(25:08):
Music Awards.
Of course, Destiny's Child are now but a memory and
Beyonce is now one of the most influential human beings
on the planet. What began as a hopeful audition for
a pre teen girl group in Houston eventually evolved into
arguably the biggest girl group of the last quarter century.
Survivor was one of their signature songs, not just a hit,
but also a statement that empowered women and gave them
(25:30):
the confidence to overcome any obstacle.
There's a pretty clear line to be drawn from Survivor
to Beyonce's 2016 Opus Lemonade, a deeply personal and diverse
concept album that basically made her into a superhero. Who
knows if she would have reached that level of confidence
as a songwriter. If she and Destiny's child first hadn't
come at their detractors with a song like Survivor.
(25:50):
You thought I'd be weak without you, but I'm stronger.
You thought I'd be broke without you, but I'm richer.
You thought I'd be sad without you. I laughed harder.
You thought I wouldn't grow without you. Now, I'm wiser
thought that I'd be helpless without you, but I'm smarter.
That's right. In 2001, Destiny's child mastered the art of
writing the ultimate takedown which will forever live on as
a testament to their greatness. I'm Miles Galloway. And that
(26:13):
was the story of Destiny's child's Survivor on Encore with
new episodes every Thursday.
Encore is an iheartradio Canada podcast. Subscribe to this podcast
on iheartradio or wherever you get your podcast, still know
the iheartradio app for more great podcasts just like these.
This is Encore. The stories behind the songs. Here's Ihe
Radio's Miles Galloway
as with every episode of Encore, I'm not gonna give up.
I'm not gonna stop, I'm gonna work harder. I'm Miles Galloway.
And this is the story of Destiny's child's Survivor.
(00:23):
You know, one of the best things about doing a
show like Encore is learning some of the smaller, more
inconsequential facts that come with researching artists and their careers.
Previous examples being how Bruno Mars was an Elvis impersonator
from the age of two years old or that Adele's
name is pronounced Adele, not Adele for this week's episode,
(00:43):
but I'm just gonna jump to the fact that I
find straight up fascinating. How about this one? Destiny's child
was actually the sixth name used by the iconic girl group.
That's right before they settled on Destiny's child. They were
known by five other names. First. I'm gonna make you
wait a bit before I reveal them. But I'm willing
to bet that most of you were unaware of this
(01:04):
uh before they were a group, the members of Destiny's
child were just young girls growing up in the city
of Houston, Texas, one of the members. Beyonce Knowles might
have heard of her
was a budding young star who was always singing and dancing.
From a young age. At the age of eight, she
began taking dance lessons and once her teacher heard her sing,
she asked Beyonce's parents, Matthew and Tina Knowles if she
(01:28):
could enter young Beyonce into a school talent show. Unbeknownst
to the parents, they had a future superstar in their home. Naturally,
Beyonce won the contest and kept going later winning the
Sammy Davis Junior Award at another
Houston based talent show, Beyonce then went through a series
of auditions before she was asked to join a new
girl group that was being formed called Girls Time Time
(01:51):
spelled Tyme. Of course. At first, there were three members
including Beyonce, Tama Davis and Latavia Roberson. But later they
grew to six after adding Calenda Kelly Rowland, who was
now living with Beyonce's family and sister,
Nicky and Nina Taylor. The group of eight and nine
year olds got their start singing well known pop and
(02:12):
R and B songs at local talent shows. Eventually, a
woman by the name of Andretta Tillman invested both her
time and money in girls time becoming their manager. The
girls watched tape on iconic groups before them like the
Supremes and Jackson five learning their dance routines and how
to move on stage and recording their performances to critique them.
They would often practice at the hair salon
(02:33):
owned by Beyonce's mom, Tina who would help them with
their look and eventually design their costumes. Speaking to Mar
Music's Jayna Lynn White in 2000, Beyonce and Kelly explain
why performing at the hair salon was so important to them.
The main goal was to try to get to Astro World. Exactly.
(02:56):
We've basically been rehearsing all week long. And so
I guess our test, we'll say that that was basically
our test when we went to the hair salon and
we could get the routines right and get the dancers
right and get all the parts right. That was like
our time, you know, to get our rehearsal, we rehearsed
all week and then at the end, if we could
perform it in front of the hair salon and do
(03:17):
a good job. And we were like, all right now,
we can be rewarded and go to Astro World
in 1992. A producer named Arnie Frager took an interest
in girls time arranging a recording session at plant recording
studios in California and giving them what they thought would
be their big break, an appearance on Star Search, a
reality talent competition show. You may remember from our episode
(03:40):
on Aliyah's try again,
introduced by host Ed mcmahon as the hip hop rap
in girls time. The song they performed leaned more new
jack swing for a bunch of 11 year olds. It
was pretty impressive. But girls time lost out to some
rather lame power balladeers. The returning champions skeleton crew following
the loss on Star Search Beyonce's dad, Matthew became more
(04:03):
involved in the group. According to sources, he threatened to
remove Beyonce
from girls time if he wasn't made co manager alongside
Andretta Tilman, who had been diagnosed with lupus a disease
that made managing a young group of R and B
singers tough around that time, LaToya Luckett joined as the
seventh member, but Matthew felt there were too many members
(04:26):
of girl time. So he turned the group into a
quartet that featured LaToya Beyonce Kelly and Latavia. He also
set up a
boot camp that consisted of dance and singing lessons throughout
the summer, working with a model to walk in high
heels and get the media savvy to pull off interviews.
He also made them sing while they jogged through the park,
(04:47):
building up their stamina for future performances. And those came
soon with girls time securing opening slots for more established
acts like Immature Drew Hill and SWV, who took it
upon themselves to mentor the young girl group
as things began to pick up for them. Matthew quit
his job selling MRI and CT scanners to focus on
the group full time and try to score them a
(05:09):
record deal. Like I mentioned at the beginning of this episode,
Destiny's Child underwent more than your average number of name
changes before they finally reached the one that would stick
girls time. Of course, being the first but then came
something fresh cliche the dolls and finally Destiny, which was
the name they used when they signed a record
(05:29):
record deal with Electra Records. But that didn't come easy.
Matthew was sending out promo packages to record labels while
also setting up showcases for the girls to perform for
record executives. One of them, Teresa LaBarbera whites, the head
of A and R for Columbia Records who did show
interest but ultimately didn't sign them.
But thanks to a production deal with famed R and
(05:51):
B producer Darryl Simmons, Destiny finally got that all important
shot with Electra in 1995. But it didn't last long
months later, Sylvia Roone, chairwoman and CEO of Electra decided
that she already had En Vogue and that the label
didn't need a second girl group. Destiny were dropped by
the label. But as they say, when one door closes
(06:13):
another door opens,
here's Beyonce. And the cool thing is before we sign
with a lecture, we had a choice to sign with
either Colombia or a lecture. And we went with a lecture,
but my dad maintained a relationship with Teresa R A
and R person for Colombia. So when she found out
we were dropped, she was like, all right now, y'all
can sign with Colombia. So we did a showcase for
them and um they signed us and then we started
(06:36):
working on the next album which took two years, which
is a very long time.
So we were 15 like 14. When we recorded some
of the songs, we went on the Men In Black
soundtrack and changing their name was important in signing a
deal with Columbia. So they looked to the good book
for inspiration and thus Destiny's child was born. We were
Destiny when we were signed with Columbia, but it was
(06:57):
so many other groups with the name Destiny, we added child,
which is like a rebirth. And um we got Destiny
out of the Bible. We, because Columbia was like, listen,
y'all wanna sign y'all need a name because we hated
our name. It was terrible. It was the dolls. And
um we were like, all right, what better place? The Bible?
We opened it up, picture fell out right. There was Destiny.
(07:19):
And um we're like, all right then my dad wanted
to make sure it wasn't any other groups with the
name Destiny. So he went to get the name proved
and everything and it was like 50 other groups. So
child became Destiny's Child. We went on a mini black
soundtrack which did well, but a lot of people don't
even know that was us on that
with an album's worth of songs they'd recorded in Oakland
(07:41):
with Dwayne Wiggins. A member of Tony, Tony. Tony Columbia
wasted no time getting the word out about Destiny's Child.
One of the songs they'd recorded Killing Time was included
on the soundtrack to Men In Black alongside names such
as the movie star Will Smith, a tribe called Quest
Nas and another R and B newcomer Alicia Keats. Sadly,
around this time, Andretta Tillman, the group's original manager passed
(08:03):
away from her battle with Lupus. Unfortunately,
she wasn't able to see the group take off which
they did later that year when Destiny's Child released their
debut single. No, no, no. The song which was almost
given to teen singer Brandy came out in two parts
with one featuring Wyclef J of the Fujis and was
a phenomenal success. Reaching number three on the hot 100
(08:25):
in the US. The group performed the song during their
first visit to the much music environment in Toronto where
VJ Juliet Powell asked them what led to forming a group.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
But why did you decide to form a band as
opposed to going solo?
Speaker 1 (08:39):
I don't think any of us could be solo.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
We've
Speaker 1 (08:43):
been
Speaker 2 (08:43):
known
Speaker 1 (08:43):
each other for about 9, 10 years now. We've been
knowing each other since elementary school and we grew up together.
We love each other. I couldn't imagine going solo. I
don't think anybody could. It's, it's just like they're a
part of each one, each one of us, a part
of each one of us. So we really do love
each other. We,
we all believe that we're destined to be Destiny's Child.
(09:05):
Destiny's child's self titled debut album arrived in February 1998.
And while it didn't exactly do big numbers, the album
would sell over a million copies in the US and
establish the group as a new artist to watch out
for soon. They were opening up for TL
Fan Mail tour across North America and winning three awards
at the Soul Train Lady of Soul Awards. But the
(09:27):
girls weren't entirely satisfied by what they had achieved. Beyonce
would later tell The Guardian, the first record was successful
but not hugely successful. It was a neo soul record
and we were 15 years old. It was way too
mature for us.
Destiny's Child wasted no time moving on to their next album,
but changes were afoot. The first was their sound. They
(09:48):
brought in the songwriting and production team of Timberland and
Missy Elliott who at the time were reinventing R and
B by taking it into the future. They gave the
girls a song called Get On The Bus, a slick
contemporary R and B song with the duo's signature sound
of stuttering kick, drum, heavy beats and rap singing vocals.
Get On the Bus wasn't a hit for Destiny's Child,
but it was a blue
(10:08):
for them to follow. For album number two. In the
writing process, the girls began to take more control of
their songs, bringing in a number of producers to help
achieve their vision, including Missy Elliott, Rodney, dark child Jenkins,
who had scored a massive hit with the Brandy Monica duet.
The Boy Is Mine and Kevin Shakespeare Briggs, who was
just about to give TLC one of their biggest hits
with the boundary pushing no scrubs. Destiny's child were in
(10:31):
good company which helped them discover a sound all of
their own.
In July 1999 Destiny's child released their second album, The
Writings On The Wall. The title was given to them
by friend Wyclef. John Kelly would tell Jet Magazine when
we were looking for a title, we had that name
and another, we asked Wyclef which was tighter. He said
the writings on the wall sounds really cool. Then he
(10:53):
went into a story about Moses finding the 10 commandments
on the wall. He said, add that to Destiny's child's
commandments of relationships which will mean something big is about
to happen
with its skittering quadruple time beats and stuttering vocal phrasing
writings on the wall, turn Destiny's Child into superstars. But
you know how these stories go just as the album
(11:14):
was taken off, the group was falling apart behind the
scenes literally before the end of the year, Latavia Robertson
and LaToya Luckett wanted a new manager filing a lawsuit
that Dis Matthew Knowles as manager for his quote, green
insistence on control, self dealing and promotion of his daughter's
interests at the expense. There's no denying Beyonce was becoming
(11:36):
the de facto leader and face of Destiny's Child. You
could see it in how she was being presented in
promotional photos and especially the album covers on the first album,
Beyonce was positioned on the right quite unassuming yet on
the writings on the wall cover.
She was front and center assuming her position as the
key songwriter and lead voice of the group. Earning her
(11:56):
comparisons to Diana Ross's role in the Supremes. In an
interview with Entertainment Weekly Dan Workman who engineered the album
revealed what the pecking order was in the group. Saying
when we were doing the writings on the wall, it
became really obvious to me that the heavy lifting was
gonna be done by Beyonce and that Kelly Rowland was
the closer
the other girls weren't as talented and were not as
(12:17):
involved in the creative process.
In response to the suit Matthew Knowles claimed Roberson and
Luckett were simply imaging more than talent. And so just
like that, he replaced the two of them with Farrah
Franklin and Michelle Williams as harsh as that was. No
one even told Roberson and Luckett they didn't find out
they'd been replaced until they saw the video for, say
my name on MTV in February 2000 featuring Farrah Franklin
(12:39):
and Michelle Williams lip syncing their parts. This being America naturally,
they sued Matthew Knowles
and Destiny's Child for breach of partnership and fiducial duties
seeking unspecified damages. The media picked up the story which
found both parties engaging in a war of words, the
two ex members would remove Beyonce and Kelly from the
(12:59):
lawsuit targeting Matthew instead. And eventually the case was settled
with Robertson and Lake receiving royalties for their contributions as
founding members of Destiny's Child in exchange for never ever
talking about it in public.
Things were beginning to calm down as the girls were
joining Christina Aguilera's tour in the summer of 2000. But
then more drama ensued. It was announced that Farrah Franklin
(13:21):
would be leaving the group after just five months. According
to Beyonce Franklin was asked to leave after she missed
multiple promotional appearances and concerts. Matthew addressed the media saying
Destiny's child is gonna be fine.
We've done three or four shows already without Farah and
they've been phenomenal. Of course, there were two sides to
the story and Franklin claimed that she actually quit the group.
(13:43):
She would later tell the Boom Box, it was really management.
They didn't handle things properly is how I was feeling.
I was 18 years old. So I didn't have that
many people I could go to for advice and talk to.
There were things happening that I didn't approve of. There
were things happening that they weren't happy about. There were
rumors put out that I was missing shows and I
(14:03):
never missed a show ever. Despite Destiny's Child. Now being short,
a singer, the new trio were content with their new sights.
During an interview with much music's Nadine Ramki, the group
expressed their excitement over now having three singers who could
really sing. Hey, you know what the great thing about
us
being a threesome now everyone can really sing. Oh, no doubt.
(14:26):
And there's no other groups. Usually you have a lead
singer or, or maybe even two singers, but now everyone
can really sing in the end. That's just a good thing,
Beyonce throwing some shade. Ouch in all fairness to everyone involved.
I mean, I do think Destiny's Child works best as
a trio and I guess everyone else did because once
Farah left the group, they really exploded into one of
(14:48):
the biggest acts in the world. So I guess you
could say that in order to get bigger, they had
to get a bit smaller. First, Beyonce elaborated on what
it meant for Destiny's Child to be a three piece
in an interview with much music's Jane Ely White explaining
how it took pressure off her to be the main
vocalist in the group.
It's refreshing. It's wonderful, especially for me because now it's like,
(15:10):
not as much pressure and, and it's so cool because
if somebody misses something, somebody's horsing and somebody's right there
to pick it up and everybody, it, it adds so
much to the group when it's um three people with
their own personality and their own look and their own sound.
But each person's sound is strong. So like her voice
is really soulful and old school and it's, hers is
(15:33):
real soft, beautiful and sultry
and I do all the crazy runs and all that.
So it's just really cool to get the three different
types of voices and put them together and they all compliment.
Um We complement each other so much. By the end
of the album cycle, Destiny's Child had two number one
singles in Bills, Bills, Bills and say my name. While jumping,
(15:53):
jumping would reach number three. And Bugaboo would be recognized
for its boundary pushing production.
The writings on the wall would go on to sell
more than 13 million copies and become one of the
biggest R and B albums of all time. Destiny's Child
were on top of the world and they weren't about
to stop. In October 2000, they released a song called
(16:14):
Independent Woman Part One, an empowering anthem recorded
for the Charlie's Angels movie starring Cameron Diaz Drew Barrymore
and Lucy Lou. That song held number one for 11
consecutive weeks becoming the group's biggest song to date and
the Guinness Book of World Records, longest running number one
song by a female group. It still is, by the way,
(16:34):
looked it up just the other day.
Not only did Destiny's child kick the year off, holding
on to the top spot of Billboard's Hot 100. They
also scored big at the Grammy Awards in February. No
longer a new artist on the scene, Beyonce Kelly and
Michelle took home Grammys for Best R and B performance
by a duo or group with vocals and best R
and B song both for say my name while all
(16:57):
this was happening. Destiny's Child were wrapping up the recording
of their third album, Beyonce wasn't actually too pleased
about rushing another album. Telling Billboard, there was not even
10 minutes between the albums which I was kind of
upset about. At first, I felt like we needed a
fair shot at making this record. We wanted a little
bit more time to vibe the songs out and concentrate
(17:17):
exclusively on the process of making this record. We didn't
even have two consecutive days of recording. We did it
completely on the fly. It was very hard, but it
ultimately worked out well. It's a testimony to how close
we've become as a group,
group. We managed to have a great time working on
this album. As a team, Beyonce took over lead songwriting
and production duties for the album. Signaling the singer songwriter,
(17:39):
producer and global superstar. She would become just years later. Initially,
she only planned on writing three songs, but she ended
up writing and producing all 15 of them. Kelly would
tell vh1 a great thing is Beyonce is a writer
and a producer. She'll open up the doors to younger
female
writers and producers. Here's a fun fact about the making
(18:00):
of Destiny's Child's third album. The band ate so much.
Popeye's Chicken. The restaurant gave them all lifetime membership cards. Also,
Michelle Williams claims it sounds like they ate a lot
of chicken making the album as she would tell Entertainment Weekly,
ordering a lot of Boston markets, rotisserie chicken, sweet potato casserole,
and cornbread. While also snacking on chips, candy and smoothies.
(18:21):
Now that is how you do it.
You think the album's lyrics were all about food. But
this time around Destiny's Child focused less on diamonds and
champagne and more on the deeper things in life carrying
on with the themes of strong empowering femininity. They began
with independent woman, which was included on the album in
two parts. They wanted to make an album that spoke
(18:42):
to the modern woman. Beyonce told much. Music's Jenna Lyn White. Well,
I know, um when you first come out, there's, you
have to be
commercial and you have to get your songs played on
the radio. And um we did that with the writings
on the wall,
this album. Now that people listen to what we have
(19:04):
to say, we wanna say something deeper than just pay
my bills and say my name. And that's why we
s we did independent women, which meant something really serious
and congratulated women for being independent and strong and um
taking care of themselves and working hard. And um
all the single parents, all the young women, everybody that
(19:27):
accomplished what they wanted. They celebrated that just being a
strong woman. They called the third album, Survivor as a
response to a joke made at the expense of the
group's revolving door policy resembling the then new reality competition show,
which if you don't remember had quite the water cooler
moment in 2001, speaking with MTV. Beyonce said, I thought
(19:47):
about this joke that this radio station had and they
were saying, oh, Destiny's child is like, Survivor trying to
see which member is gonna last the longest on the island.
And everyone laughed and I was like,
ah, that's cute. But you know what, I'm gonna use
that negative thing and turn it into a positive thing
and try and write a great song out of it.
And there was more to it than just responding to
a Jibe. The group extended the title to relate to
(20:07):
any type of survival, whether it's enduring the hardships of
being in a girl group and facing critics or battling
a terminal illness. They wanted their fans to claim it
as their own. As Beyonce would tell much music, the
Survivor
um celebrate it just surviving anything if it's cancer, if
it's A I DS, if it's just being a teenager,
if it's going through losing your job or whatever, it,
(20:30):
it just really makes you feel like you can work
harder and accomplish anything. And with the whole album, that's
why we named this Survivor. We even, we go to
child molestation. It was a, a young girl, send a
fan letter to Destiny's child saying she was molested by
her stepfather and we really re
helped her because no matter what, we always smiled, we
(20:52):
always were positive, we always knew that those struggles just
made us who we were and it just made us
better People. Destiny's Child released the title track from their
third album on March 6th, 2001. As a statement, the
song was written by Beyonce, her father and producer Anthony Dent,
who originally made the instrumental for rapper Lil Kid. But
after hearing it, Beyonce reportedly wrote the lyrics and melody
(21:14):
for the song
on a flight in between dates on their tour with
Christina Aguilera. It would lead the way for the rest
of the songs on the album which inspired them to
write about other ways to be strong and take control
over your life. However, Survivor also didn't hold back with
its message. The now three member group took shots at
their former members with lines like I'm not gonna blast
(21:35):
you on the radio. I'm not gonna lie on you
or your family. I'm not gonna hate you in the
magazine and you thought I wouldn't sell
without you sold 9 million and well, it cost them
LaToya Luckett and Latavia Robertson sued the group for disparagement,
claiming the lyrics violated their previous settlement. But once again,
the case was settled out of court. But despite that
(21:55):
small setback, the song was an immense hit for Destiny's Child,
both in the charts and in the lives of their fans.
It reached number two on the hot 100 staying there
for seven straight
weeks and won them a Grammy for Best R and
B performance by a duo or group with vocals, perhaps
even more important was how their song was embraced and
even adopted as an anthem for people to survive difficult
(22:16):
circumstances in their lives. Michelle Williams told Entertainment Weekly, we
got fan letters that said I've been bullied, but I
put on Survivor before I go to school and it
takes the fear away. The legacy of Survivor is sisterhood
and empowerment.
When the World Trade Center was attacked by terrorists on
September 11th, 2001. Survivor by Destiny's child still in heavy
(22:39):
rotation at the time was given a second life becoming
an anthem to help a nation grieve and show solidarity
and strength. According to the group, the video for Survivor
tested their ability to survive in
frosty temperatures directed by Darren Grant and shot in L
A in the dead of winter. The video sees the
three members on a set like the reality show, the
(22:59):
same name. They're crawling on the beach, walking through the
jungle and dancing in less clothing than one might want
to at that time of year. Thanks to Tina Knowles,
constantly cutting down their wardrobes to get skimpier and skimpier.
The group told MTV News about the video shoot. They
definitely made sure that we were survivors. We gonna sing
about it and talk about it. They wanted to play,
(23:20):
the water was so cold. We made it look like
it was just hot outside. I know when Beyonce went
out first, it was like 40 degrees and to our
understanding it was the coldest day in L A history.
So it was very, very cold, but the video turned
out excellent. Darren Grant did a spectacular.
(23:42):
So I mean, it was just a, a video full
of strength and power. This was a song we made
sure that it was Survivor based. And of course there
were some bloopers
because we had so many water scenes. We had wigs
that were styled exactly like our hair. So you can't
(24:03):
tell the difference between when it's our hair or when
it's the wigs because we didn't have time in between
the set because we had so many different scenes to
dry our hair and blow dry it again, curl it again.
So whenever we had water scenes, we put the wigs on. Anyway,
we had the helicopter scene,
the helicopter comes close and Kelly's wig flies completely off
(24:23):
of her head and we're running. They think we're running
away from the helicopter because the sand is beating us,
but we're running after her wig like
it was so funny. It was. But you would never tell,
you could never tell because her hair was light up
under there. And every time we watch the video when
we see that scene, it just cracks me up because
(24:45):
all you see is just picture Kelly running at that
wig and I was like hold on some extra air
coming in from somewhere
Michelle would later reveal on Good Morning America that the
three of them basically had pneumonia after that video shoot
and was sick for days. But I suppose it was
all worth it. In the end. The now iconic video
won best R and B video at the MTV Video
(25:08):
Music Awards.
Of course, Destiny's Child are now but a memory and
Beyonce is now one of the most influential human beings
on the planet. What began as a hopeful audition for
a pre teen girl group in Houston eventually evolved into
arguably the biggest girl group of the last quarter century.
Survivor was one of their signature songs, not just a hit,
but also a statement that empowered women and gave them
(25:30):
the confidence to overcome any obstacle.
There's a pretty clear line to be drawn from Survivor
to Beyonce's 2016 Opus Lemonade, a deeply personal and diverse
concept album that basically made her into a superhero. Who
knows if she would have reached that level of confidence
as a songwriter. If she and Destiny's child first hadn't
come at their detractors with a song like Survivor.
(25:50):
You thought I'd be weak without you, but I'm stronger.
You thought I'd be broke without you, but I'm richer.
You thought I'd be sad without you. I laughed harder.
You thought I wouldn't grow without you. Now, I'm wiser
thought that I'd be helpless without you, but I'm smarter.
That's right. In 2001, Destiny's child mastered the art of
writing the ultimate takedown which will forever live on as
a testament to their greatness. I'm Miles Galloway. And that
(26:13):
was the story of Destiny's child's Survivor on Encore with
new episodes every Thursday.
Encore is an iheartradio Canada podcast. Subscribe to this podcast
on iheartradio or wherever you get your podcast, still know
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