Episode 443: EmpowHER (Feat. Syleena Johnson)

Singer/media personality, Syleena Johnson joins the ladies of Lip Service this week for iHeart's International Women's Day Initiative, 'Women Take the Mic.' Syleena opens up about why she got married the first time, all the obstacles she and her husband overcame during her current marriage, and much more. Syleena discusses her move to Italy to be a mother, and even admits that Marriage Bootcamp was amazing for her relationship. Make sure you stream her latest single, 'Black Balloon' and keep your eye out for her upcoming album! Enjoy! 

ALSO join us on Friday, March 8th, 2024 for iHeart's 'Women Take the Mic' initiative on your favorite iHeart station or on iheartradio.com!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Wes F slip service. I'm Angela Yee, I'm Gg maguire,
I'm Laura.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Maura, and I'm Selena Johnson.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hey she's that's Selena. Yeah, don't laugh for you. She's
a talk show host to Sister Circle, it is, and
that's correct. Did you love doing that?

Speaker 2 (00:17):
I really love I really loved Sister Circle because it
was in studio when we went back to Crown. That
was fun because it was back in the studio when
we were in the bubble and we were doing Fox.
So I love my co host, but I hated being
like in the computer because like you'd be talking and
somebody be talking and then you have to wait all
the way to the silent and then say something. So

(00:38):
that was kind of difficult trying to, you know, figure
out how to do that successfully. But I do like
being on talk platforms. It's a relief sometimes singing there's
a lot of pressure and a lot of a lot
of preparation and stuff. So yeah, I really loved it.
Plus Sister Circle was was the most fun too because
we had guests. I enjoyed your Sister Circle, so that

(01:00):
was the time. It was a time, but we had guests,
so that was fun, you know, to be able to
converse with other people and learn about other people's life
and story, like the story, and be on the other
side because as an artist the whole time, I'd never
been on the other side, you know. So I learned
a lot of things on huh okay, now see why,
Well then that makes sense why they've been doing, you know, so.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Well listen, it is also Women's Month, and International Women's
Day is March eighth, Yes, and so I really want
to talk about the fact that you see, we have
an all women cast on lip Service always and I
love them. We have our women guests, and so you,
like we just talked about, you've been in spaces where
it's been all women. So I just want to take

(01:43):
a moment to acknowledge all of the podcasts and shows
out there that represent for women, because we need those
safe spaces to be able to talk and to be
able to express ourselves.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
You know, emphasis on safe space safe.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yes. And so I heard it's doing this International Women's
Day initiative. It's called the Women Take the Mic, And
so I just want each of us and I love
this because you also have this journal here yes, music, Yes,
but as we are talking about women. Take the mic.
I want each of us to just have a reflection
on what it means for you like to be a woman,

(02:17):
and to embrace other women too, and just moments of
maybe people who have done something amazing for you. You know,
let's start with you, Laura.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
Oh.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
Well for me, I've been blessed to always have strong
women I who inspire me, who encourages me to be
you know, I've grown up single mom by myself. Mother
was there but couldn't be there as much as she
wanted to. You know, my sister was away in the army.

(02:46):
I didn't have like a family female sister. But I've
always been blessed and God has always blessed me to
put women in my life. Every single woman in my life,
whether they're here or not, has had a huge impression
in my life. Like I've always and able to look
and see and have leaders, and it's always been the women,
Like every single time. Sometimes I'm like, God, how is

(03:08):
it that I've been so blessed to be around so
many strong women from all different walks of life, from
middle school, high school to my adult life. Like all
my female friends have always been five to six years
older than me, and I've again that's a blessing, you know,
because sometimes when you hang with people your age, like

(03:28):
we're both growing and evolving at the same time. And
I think as a woman, you evolve in stages. You
evolve at your twenties, it is different from your thirties.
And to be able to have something to see and
understand and say, Okay, this is where I'm gonna be at,
this is where I want to go, this is what
I want to do, this is how I want to think,
this is how I want to handle this. And even
with in relationships, you know, seeing what it is to

(03:51):
be a woman self love, loving yourself, seeing your friends
go through things and say, Okay, I don't want to
do that. I don't want to go through that, or
letting them know I've been do that, don't do that.
But I've been blessed and I'm so thankful where I'm
at right now in my life.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
It's because of all the women that's been around me.
Do you think it's helped you to be like a
better mom? Since you say a single mom, it's like
you being surrounded by all these strong women was like
a blueprint or like a set up by God. He
knew you was definitely a setup by God because being
a young mother, I was so focused on just being
a mother, being a provider, being there for my kids.

(04:28):
And it was like, to me, all I saw was
having to make sure that I had these two little
human beings that I have to be everything for that
I forgot that I needed to be something for myself.
You understand what I'm saying, Like it was hard for
me to understand, Like I said, self love, Like my
love was my kids.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Right, Sometimes you got to put yourself first. And that's
a hard thing to do because it feels selfish because
you when you have kids, Yeah, it feels like you
got to put the kids first.

Speaker 5 (04:55):
And yeah, and my.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
Friends always always always reminded me or no, like you
have to put into yourself, like when you're on a plane,
you have to put your mask on first to be
able to save.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
Those in need.

Speaker 4 (05:10):
And my friends always provided that in everywhere and ugly
and even when I didn't like it, like what are
you talking about? Like I got it, I understood it,
and yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Love mine, mana. What about you when you think about
what it means for you growing being in the space
that you're in. It's not an easy industry. And I
know we're going to get into that too when we
talk about the new music. But how have women influence
where you are and who you are today? And who
are some people that you would credit to like really
helping you.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well, you know, my mother was, My mother is a
strong force. She was the first black female police commissioner
in the United States. So that's like who we was
raised back, that's our person. But I was raised in
a predominantly female family. Like all of my aunts. They

(06:02):
were single moms, you know, but they had a husband,
but some were divorced, you know, up and down in relationships.
My mom is divorced obviously for my dad, but they
were together for you know, twenty some years. But still
it was very very female based. Everything was the mama,
the grandmama, the aunties, even the cousins. Was just very

(06:23):
female based. I have two sisters by my mom and dad,
and then I have two half sisters, you know, Ryan,
So I speak women, you know, I speak especially Black women.
I turn up on us, but I you know, I've
been and being the youngest, you know, I've been surrounded
by women my entire life. It's been my upbringing. But

(06:47):
what was interesting is and so my appreciation for them
is extremely hot, It is extremely high. But coming into
the music business was male for male dominate. So the
way that I looked at things was totally different from
the way that they looked at things. But that's when
I started, that's when I knew, that's when I grew
such an appreciation for the way that I looked at

(07:08):
things because it just it just it helped me in
a lot of ways. Women, the women in my life
taught me even though we were absent of men, male
strong male figures, they still taught me how to be
strong in the absence of that. And you know, they
will say that, you know, a woman needs a man
in her life to kind of let her know her value.

(07:30):
But the women in my life did a very good
job at stamping that.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Now.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
I didn't always move like that, you know what I'm saying,
because you know, we just make mistakes in our life.
But I think I had a solid foundation that was
built by women. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
If you want to get something done right, ask a
woman to do it.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
It's the truth. Though, it's the truth. It's not even
shade like it really is the truth. This is why
men hire a bunch of women to push their companies, right,
you know, no shade, and they be black, But I'm
just saying it be women of color. But at the
end of the day, I think that I have the

(08:07):
women who have pushed me, have been the women in
my family, and I am surrounded. I'm very blessed to
have friends who are very strong and professionals. Also my sorority,
you know, to have joined the sororities. I a sorority
incorporated is a is another additional sisterhood, you know. So
I've just if your friends are a reflection of who

(08:29):
you are.

Speaker 5 (08:31):
I'm.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
What about you, Gig, what would you say? So?

Speaker 5 (08:36):
I would definitely say that I always consider myself a
girl's girl, right, I always have women around me.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
I come from a family full of women.

Speaker 5 (08:45):
I have older sisters, aunts, and you know, family members
who are strong black women. I've been able to maintain
lifelong friendships with friends from you know, from the block
as litt kids running aund.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
Outside, playing hungle seek and stuff like that.

Speaker 5 (09:03):
And that's hard to maintain, you know, as women, when
we grow and evolved, sometimes we shift apart. But you
know how you have those friends that no matter how
long y'all talk, y'all jump right back in like y'all
just talked yesterday. So I'm grateful for those relationships that
I have. And I also want to take this opportunity,
Angela to give you your flowers someone okay, because look at

(09:24):
this space that you've created for us and have brought
me into. And we'll be celebrating ten years in September doing.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
G always knows how long it's been.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
I don't because she just yeah, I'll be on it.

Speaker 5 (09:39):
And you know, I'm just grateful for this opportunity that
has led to so many other opportunities and opened so
many doors for me. We've done all types of festivals
and all types of you know, just different engagements, and
we went on tour and I've experienced and had the
pleasure to meet people like you and you know for
so long and it's just so easy and it's just

(10:02):
so regular to me now. But you know, I have
my friends that are in awe of this platform that
I'm on, in this opportunity to have.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
So I just want to thank you like.

Speaker 5 (10:10):
I always do for this, and I also appreciate the
friendship that we have and have been able to maintain
for so many years as well.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Well. I love to see when my friends win. So
when Gigi's like, oh, we got this documentary, and like
to see when she's happy about something, and she'd be like, okay, girl,
you the second person because I'm never the first. I'm
always a second. But she's like, you're the second person
I'm calling and telling us. But I think that's what
it's really about for us. A lot of times they
act like women are very competitive with each other, and
I find that, like a lot of stuff that I've

(10:38):
done in spaces of entrepreneurship and spaces like this, we
do get so much support from women more or stronger
in numbers. Yeah, and it's not an easy journey, but
I do want to say that I've been really blessed,
Like even with some partnerships that we have with our
coffee company, you know, coffee Uplist people. We have a
black woman importer, a black woman role there that Rosar

(11:01):
beans Laura manages the shop. You know. Also but even
you know, just those things, some of the things that
we're doing with Pinky from Sluddy Vegan that's so exciting
to me, just to see the partnerships that we've been
able to form. And as soon as I put something out,
it's always like my girls that are like, just pick
this up. They post it and support you, and that's
great to see. Like even for you, Selena, You're on

(11:22):
tour right now and I see so many women posting
you like and feeling uplifted by your music for so long.
I think that's a huge thing because it speaks to
them and they can relate to it, and even you
being open in spaces like seeing you on marriage boot
Camp and fix my Life. But that's not an easy
thing to do, is to share your life with people.

(11:43):
But you don't know who you're helping when they're having
the opportunity to see those things, because people might look
at you as an artist and be like, she's so perfect,
she's so this.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
They're looking at all of us like that. Yeah, you know,
they're looking at y'all like that, Oh, they got it
all together, they got it all going on.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
They don't think we perfect.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
Of them. If you got more followers than them, they
think you better off than them. That's what they think.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
Yeah, I mean, And that's what I want to talk
to you about. Just being in a space where you're
able to even open up the way that you have,
because I feel like that's what makes somebody relatable when
we don't just hear the music and so you perform,
but we also know who you are as a person
and like the things that you've gone through, you know.
So I just want to say that even just watching
you early on and like, you know, like she got

(12:28):
a beautiful voice from a young age, a grown voice.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Like right, cham me up in the in the beginning, add.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Don't know where that came from, but now like you
have this song now, I was listening to this Monster's
in the closet, Yes, and it seems like there's a
lot more you want to tell us.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
Well, okay, So when my father died in twenty twenty
two and rest in peace, Hill Johnson, my father was
Blues Hall of Famer soul R and B blues artist.
He was like one of the most sample artists and
sampled history, you know, and back in the day, you know,

(13:06):
he came out and during like the Civil Rights movement,
he was like popular during that time. He went through
a lot of anguish as you can imagine, and I
feel like a lot of those things that he went through.
He didn't pray those off of me, you know, So
that was I think I kind of absorbed a generation
or adopted a generational curse in a lot of different

(13:27):
ways because of the things that I went through in
the industry were very similar to some of the things
that he had to experience. And so monsters in the closet.
When my father died, I think I just had like
a it was like an avalanche of all the pain
and all of the drama and trauma that was called
that is caused by this music business just came to

(13:49):
a head, and that song was birthed from that moment.
You know, Like these monsters that are in this industry,
they are. And I was in therapy because you know,
I am transparent, I just be talking. But I was
in therapy the other one time and I was talking
to Love McPherson, you know love me. You may know

(14:10):
Love mcpheerson. She's a therapist man, And we were talking
about monsters in the closet and I was having one
of those sessions where you crying and carrying on and stuff,
and she said, you know, Selena, seems like your monsters
are men. And that was right. That hit me down
in my stomach, you know, and so that really took

(14:30):
me out even worse because this is a male dominated
industry and not necessarily that someone has to do a
physical assault to you. But there's a lot there's a
lot of shit that be jumping off. That's mental abuse
that is actually worse than the actual physical abuse and
gatekeeping and blocking you from getting things and doing things

(14:54):
simply because you have breast, you know what I'm saying.
So for me, it was about, you know, my father
experiencing the racism. He had a very cultural conscious album
called is Because I'm Black during a time the Civil
Rights movement era. His label shelved it said that the
lyrics were too controversial later on. So that's imagine you

(15:18):
have a whole album, whole project, and then the label
will be like, oh no, we don't like the lyrics
and all this.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Work, and it exactly proves his point.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
It exactly was the point. But you know they didn't care, right,
people don't care at that time. Didn't even do it right.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
You can't do where people gonna hear it, you.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Know exactly, and so they're just still your still your ship.
And then make it like theirs, but you know he
I mean I did like think like my dad would
be on buses where you know, going through towns where
it's burning crosses, like really like in my mind, like
going back to those moments of Trump, that had to
be traumatic. You know, everybody in that era had to
be like probably still dealing with trauma from that.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Your career and what you love correct was traumatizing. It
was traumatized.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
So monsters in the closet came from, you know, thinking
of how he died and still wasn't in a place
that he felt he should have been. Like we could
look at him and look at his accomplishments and be like, man,
you go down in history. My dad's in the Blues
Hall of Fame, my uncle's in the Blues Hall of Fame,
Like that's big. But to feel inside even though you

(16:27):
don't have even though you have all these accomplishments, but
still feel like you haven't done anything that's deep and
so that's sad to me. That's sad, And it's like
secondhand trauma for me.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
How do you feel about you being in this business
after what he went through?

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Well, so me and my dad had an a strange
relationship because when I signed to Jive Records, he felt
like I left him, so we didn't have the best relationship.
It was very icon Teina from then on. But when
my father got sick, you know, all that kind of
goes way. You got you start to when you see

(17:04):
someone that was a juggernaut in your life weak and
not able to do, you know, and be this strong
person that's been cussing you out your whole life. You
know what I'm saying, You just be like, it don't
matter what you did at this moment. You're my daddy
right now, you know. So Monsters in the Closet came
from the frustration of what he had been through and
had not healed from on top of what I deal

(17:26):
with already and had been through, and I just got
sick of it. So I kind of just, you know,
said what I have to say.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
And I'm glad you say all that because people don't understand.
You know, we see a lot of things happening and
coming to the light and the music business, and people like,
why didn't they say something at the time that had happened,
or you know, you just was going to be in
the room while that was going on. And not do anything,
or you just let that person. But why didn't you
just walk away and do X, Y and Z.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Right, Well, everybody, if it was a fifth we all
be drunk. Answer. We're all sweating, you know in here.
You know, so at the end of the day, we
would all have done something different. But first of all,
you have to take age into consideration. When I was signed,
I was twenty one years old. You know, I'm forty seven. Now,

(18:11):
that's twenty six years ago. Of like not even you
don't know your ass from your boy twenty one and
I wouldn't have known that until I was in my
fort You see what I'm saying. Till now, we wouldn't
have known that. We didn't know shit. Now, back then,
we thought we knew a whole bunch, we had all
we worst way, we did have all the answers. But
now you realize you and you can give yourself grace

(18:35):
for things now because you know that you didn't know much,
You didn't know what to do, you didn't know better,
and you.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Weren't support that either. No, I feel like now there's
people will actually listen. Even though some people will still
bash you, there will be people who support you. And
you have a platform to be able to express yourself
and to.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Social media too, because you could just come on your
own page and say what time it is and people
will you.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
And you could be like, well, if I'm not signed
to that label anymore, there's other ways that I can
make my money. It's not dependent on that. And also, yeah,
so I think back then it was definitely different. And
like you said, being younger, I mean, there's things I
went through when I was in my early twenties that
you just be like, let me just keep on pushing
and everything. Just keep on pushing, you know, blinders, you

(19:22):
don't want to get blackballed. You feel like, well if
I say something, maybe I won't be able to work again.
No one's believe me.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
It's that's real. That's real. That is very real. And
what people think is that when women say that, like
we plan like you could have said something. No, actually,
if you would have said something in real life, probably
would not have been able to feed yourself, right, Like
that's how bad it be. It's really ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
I mean, and I think this is great that now
we see a lot of things coming, you know, to light.
And because I always feel like people only get away
with things, but for so long and at some points, right,
it does catch up with you at some point. And
it also is who wants to live their life not
knowing when it's going to catch up there.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Something, And these people take the risk all the time.
They don't give a ship. They will do what they
got to do all over you and just feel like, oh, well,
but that's a narcissism too, Right, Narcissists don't have that
realization that what they're actually doing is wrong because they
all they think they're right, everybody around them is, so

(20:30):
they don't feel they don't have the realization that you
just had because they don't.

Speaker 3 (20:34):
They don't.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
I mean like, I feel good that even though it
may take longer to get to where you're going doing
things the right, at least I'm not having other things
that I have to feel like, Man, I have you know,
anxiety from this, or I'm worried about this, or one
day the phone's gonna ring or I'm gonna get a
message or see myself trend in because somebody, I don't
worry about none of those things because I'm very comfortable

(20:57):
and how I've got to where I've gotten to and
the way that I've treated people.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Hello, somebody, it's nice to be important, but it's important
to be nice. Yes, yes, and that's and that's just
like that. So you get further just being kind, just
being kind of people because you don't know who's who,
and you don't know who God will elevate in any
given time. So you being mean to somebody right now,
Like let's say we mean to the sound man right now,

(21:23):
then here come another show that he's on and or
that he's in charge of, and then here come your
name is comes up as talented book and he's like,
oh no, she was a bitch. And this there it
goes opportunity out the window.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
But the best thing is when he'd be like, oh
my god, I love to work at her. We should
get her because there's so many opportunities I can get
just from being on time, being pleasant, doing my job,
being prepared, showing up.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
Doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
How about just because.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Now I want to Now this is lip service. Still
what that means you know, we're gonna talk about some
things up here. Oh God, okay, but I do want
to dig into relationships somewhere. So the first time you
got married? How over were you twenty.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
Two, twenty three?

Speaker 1 (22:15):
Okay, I had no business. I was gonna ask you,
so what makes you think like this is? You know
right now I'm ready, Like, how did that even happen?

Speaker 2 (22:23):
Do you want the real truth? You may tell you
something that's like phone we went, the real truth. I
was bored. It's the truth, okay, And I had to
really admit it to myself because I when I when
I did get after it was all said and done,
you wanted you wanted to believe that, No, I really

(22:45):
was in love. I really was bored.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
I signed to Jive Records in nineteen ninety eight, and
I was sitting on the label, just sitting, you know,
I was working on material. But one year had gone by,
two years gone by. I started dating this guy. He's
a really nice guy, and we were like, I guess
we were in love because we was together all the time,
but I was, you know, it was bored. I was like,

(23:09):
let's do something, you know, And then when it was
like this how the proposal went, you think we should
get married. Let's just get married.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
We ain't doing nothing.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
Now that's.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Bored. So then go to the store. Ooh, we pick
out a ring. I think we went to CA's Jewelry
back then, so we went to the Case jewelry. You know,
we was in college. We went to the k jury
picked out a little ring and then he tried to
do the whole you know what. He was a gentleman
about it. He went and asked my mom and all that.

(23:42):
So that was like something to be doing, probably from
the impatience or the anxiety of I've been signed to
the slavel when nothing's happening kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
I gotta do something in my life. I'm doing something.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah, it was a distraction and excitement and then when
it started it became proper mad and so then that's
why that didn't work, because I didn't take into consideration.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
Things about any of them. Nothing, just this is fun
to do.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
Let's go. I had thirtwo girls, so ghetto at thirteen
brass Maids. It was so ghetto. Girl. We came down
the aisle to Moments.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
Of Love, was so gathered, lot of friends listen, they
had candles and it was it was get help up.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
And it was on the West side of Chicago.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
Girl.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
We was up at that church, like I went the
two steps.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
Down the hound.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
Listen that.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
Day, Girl, I was. I was so taed at the
at the reunion. What do you call the receptnion, because
that's what it felt like, reginion. But I was so
tired at the reception that I didn't even really get
to eat or anything because it was so busy. There
was so much The Little Muppet people was in there.

(25:00):
And then Joe came in there and saying because we
was on the same label, so my label surprised me
and had Joe comeing there. Girl was a mess. And
then my cousin stole my car at night and went
to go be with some girls. We was at the
hotel and he brought my car back. It was numbers
all on the floor. It was just a ghetto ass
did But he was a nice guy. He just was

(25:20):
too young, and so was I.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
How long did it last?

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Girl? Five seconds? We got we were together for a year,
We got married, and we were and then I went
on tour with R Kelly, the TP two tour, and
that's when he was he was my He was my
role man, okay, And it had nothing to do with R.
Kelly and them because we were kind of separate, like
we was opening over here acting our food on that tour,

(25:46):
he was getting on my nerves.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
By the time the tour was over, the marriage was over.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
To absolutely but nothing just like that I'm talking about.
Right when it was over, it was like, I'm staying
at my mama house and I don't never want to
see you again.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, how was it?

Speaker 3 (26:01):
Though?

Speaker 1 (26:01):
During the time when he was still a nice guy,
he was still nice, He was a nice day.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
He was baby. He wasn't but twenty he was younger
than me. He was like twenty one. Oh damn, yeah,
we was babies.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
What do you think about working with somebody who you're
married to?

Speaker 2 (26:16):
Okay, so for some people that works, like my girl
Avery Sunshine, her and Dana. That works for them because
Dana is a musician, so when she performs, he's performing,
you know what I'm saying, right, So that that works
in that instance. But Dana's also management too. But Avery
and Dana are like best friends, so that works. But

(26:39):
then there are other relationships that I that I've you know,
seen or witnesses witnessed over the years that it didn't work.
It didn't it didn't work, and isn't working. You know
in my opinion, because things just be my opinion why
they might be thinking they be working. But to me
it's a conflict of interest in a way because they're

(27:01):
As an entertainer, sometimes you have to be in a
character form and that character has to be able to
attract men and women. But it has to be able.
It has to be able to attract especially women. Sexuality
is a big part of marketing for us in terms
of getting people to want and to buy into your music.

(27:25):
You know, to feel away, right, so you want to
create that, you know, that that aura. You want to
create this character, you know, so that they can buy into.
You know, whether it's real or not, you still want
to create that for someone. So like if I'm if
I'm a person that sings ballads, right and I sing
sexy songs, then people who listen to men who listen

(27:48):
to my music, they want to feel like a sexy
that sexy vibe, and they want to be able to
view me that way. Even if they can't have me,
they still want to be able to view you that way.
Just like with men. You can really tell a tank
I'm sure women love.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
But they know he's very much mad.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
He is so merry and in love, right, but he
has to create that that you know, that ideology that
you can that he's terrible.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
He does that well.

Speaker 5 (28:18):
Actually we've all seen him on stage with no shirt
and yes, and he's very sexual and listens to be
right there like that.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
Remember one time he said the end of the Soul
Train Awards and they came together and I had to
do the carp sister circle and they had on green
she had on a green dress here on the white
seat with a green shirt. They looked like they was.

Speaker 3 (28:39):
Going to prime.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
And he performed and she was in the audience and
it was the cutest thing. Everything he did was like
to her, to her section that. But but that alone
made other women be like, wish I had a man
like that, had a go bather record just to keep
wishing and feeling and what.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
They thought, man's special fight And she's special for like
wanting that and being able to be there in the audience.
And I love that he.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Did that to her because clearly he's a sex symbol.
But I loved how he openly was like, yo, when
I go home, it's up you know, and your man,
it's up for her. She didn't have a good old.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
Time been ahead. It's a good time that all y'all
want to have and.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
There's nothing we can do about it, you know.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
All right, So now after this first marriage, what were
your thoughts on married? Were you like, I'm not doing
this again, or were you just like.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
I didn't I wanted to get married again because I
understood that first of all, my husband, my first husband,
wasn't a bad person, so it didn't leave this taste
in my mouth like marriage is terrible. We were just
we just didn't know what we were doing. We were
just again, we were bored, you know. I just feel
like we were bored. It just felt like something to do.

(29:52):
But he made it difficult, obviously because you know, I
guess it was a hard It was a hard detachment
for him, so it was kind of difficult. It took
us three years to actually be divorced. That was crazy.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
You know, I want to be able to get up
and go and just say yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:11):
And we don't have any kids or anything. We have
any kids, So that was like crazy, Like we should
have been able to give divorce in two seconds. We
didn't have nothing. We had no money, We have nothing.
So even though I came off to the TB two tour.
I still didn't have that much money because I was
open and opening. The real opener was Sunshine Avery. Okay,
it's right, Sunshine, Sunshine, and I get every sunshine Sunshine.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
There's too many.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
Averies and Sunshine, and I loved both of them. Time
hung it out before Sunshine and which I absolutely loved.
That was my girl, but she was the real opener,
you know, and Job Records R. Kelly was like, yeah,
you can put her on the top. I only had
like fifteen minutes of like, you know, Hail Mary, you know,
at the beginning, you know. So it's not like I

(30:59):
came off the tour with all this money either.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
So sometimes people pay to be on tour, like yes,
that's when they're opening. They'll be like, okay, who can.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
Well, technically job Records paid for me to be on
that tour because I wasn't making any money. The only
money that we were really making was pre deal, right,
and the label was paying that. You know. So the
label paid for the tour bus and let because it
was part of the marketing budget.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
And then you owe it back and then you owe
it pay.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
A whole different conversation.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Which is the monsters in the closet. This is what
I'm saying there. This is why we have monsters.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
But people will tell you all the time in the
music and the music business that everybody goes through that right,
and they make it seem like it's a right path.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
It's okay, right because you go through it. I mean,
it's slavery. We all went through slavery back in the day.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
But that wasn't that don't mean it's okay because they
don't make it seem like, well, everybody signs a bad
contract at first, and then you go through that and
then you learn from that and then da dah da
da da. But that shouldn't be.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
It's like Jesu said, why you just can't do right
because the right thing? Because it's the right thing.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
All right.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
So then after that, right, what was it like for
you being single after having been married because you went
on tour and you were in a relationship on your
first time. So them, wait, I was out, he was
outside outside because I can't being a beautiful young artist
that Ku sang. First of all, I had a divorce
party and I announced it on the radio like it

(32:23):
was like come out to the divorce party, very regious
ch in Chicago.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
I know that was and was kicking it. But I
ran the numbers for a good three years. My third album,
Chapter three, The Flesh, the one one, I'm like, that's
your guys, that's the song slowly on there and the
phone and all.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
The little there.

Speaker 3 (32:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Now, just let's just say I enjoyed myself. I had
a good old time time that you I don't remember,
you know, because I just was. I never had like
one person just at one time, okay, you know, to
start in five Okay, at all times, playing the whole

(33:08):
game too.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
They played the whole game.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
And you gotta date when you're not locked, you know, because.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
All about yeah, data is date means collecting data. How
are you going to collect data? You have to do research?
Dating is research.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Now with some of these guys fans like, did you
ever feel like.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
No, because I dated my pay grade at that time? Okay,
I dated up, I date and then you know what
was interesting And I ain't gonna have to put nobody
name out there because we all a thousand now. But
they would call my label, They would reach out to
my label and publicist and dates.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
That used to be the thing. It was also trying
to have like a hook up that felt like it
would be publicity.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
Why they like the R and B gas, Yeah, especially
the athletes.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
I was gonna say, it's those athletes. Athletes and the
R and B girls like the athletes and the labor
and the label likes that too, because the labels like publicity.
They like that, they like they get you in a relationship.
It's a public relationship.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
People talk and get.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
Her and get the people talking.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
Now they're just going to dms, that's it.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
But even still, like, I'm a very private human being,
so I never wanted to, like, I would never be
up top with people because you know, I wanted to
have multiple concepts, so I didn't be just like out,
you know, I'm with this guy on the arms.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
Did you ever have more than one guy that you
were dealing with at the same time at a show? Yeah,
in the audience, Yeah, that's absolutely thing. And then afterward
they're probably like, I'm coming backstick.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
But nobody's your man. So you don't have egos.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
They do not want to be in that type of
they don't, but they would never they would never know
because you know this, let's keep it real.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
Women are much better at this. Yes, men panic women
are very calm.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
We're solution oriented.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
And men's egos are so big that they think she
would never do that to me.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
Little do you know? You better tighten the baby. Okay
that part.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
They'll talk themselves out of it. They could see something
and be like, nah, she ain't my home wife told me.
But I know, well, if you didn't see me do it,
and it's not in record, it did not happen.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
And that's all the way up on to the grave.
So that's my best thing.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
You said, that's my best sie. I mean, and listen,
I think it has been hard because and I tell
I tell you this, Laura, like dating one person but
that's not your man. I always feel like that's not
the best idea of because you get so invested and
if they're not trying to commit to you and you're
not in.

Speaker 4 (35:59):
That friend, he's so mad at me. They're like, you
got to be on the same page. You mean, you
can't go with somebody else somewhere like what are you doing?

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yeah, but you have to let that be known.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah. Yeah, you can't like sneaking, you can't be lying.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
You can't be lying. You gotta just you have to
let people know straight out of the gate, you know.
And then too with women, we have to also understand
you have to have the emotional intelligence to be able
to accept that they too can have And for me, like, well,
at that time, because I've been married for seventeen years,
but at that time, dating like that was better because

(36:34):
then there's no obligation and you've got something to lose.
I got something to lose. Like you don't want to bite, No,
I don't want to buy.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
No. We good, right, we're doing You're looking at me,
I'm looking at you. Why I feel like why?

Speaker 3 (36:49):
That's fun? That's fun, keep it spicy, all right.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
So then how did you end up getting back off
the market.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Well, I got real sick of men after a while
because they they Although I had a start in five
and all these, you know, it was out here having fun,
after a while it was getting stupid to the point
where they just were getting stupid and getting on my
nerve and then you would be finding other stuff out
about them. It's like why he didn't tell me that shit,
you know, stuff like that. That was just cumbersome after

(37:18):
a while. So I just wanted to be by myself.
And I just was like, I just need a break
from men in general, and so I just stopped dating
everybody and just kind of tried to focus a little
bit on my career and just like get my thoughts
processed together. So for about four months, four or five months,
I was just like just by myself and just okay

(37:39):
with being by myself, working out real hard. It was
working on my album, getting ready for Chapter three to
be released and stuff like that. And then my husband,
my current husband, he played basketball the time overseas, and
apparently his cousins, this is very he's cousins of a
cousins and second cousins, his twin girl cousins worked with

(38:04):
a very close friend of mine, a very close friend
of mine's girlfriends. So it wasn't even that they worked
with him. They worked with his correct. So they had
a picture on their desk, the twin girlfriends, the twin cousins,
my cousins now Rashoota and Dahlila. They had a picture

(38:25):
of me with them taking on their desk because I
saw him at a party one time and we all
took a picture, and so he was in town and
saw the picture on you know, with them and was like, oh,
y'all know her. That's gonna be my baby, mama. I
love her, that's my you know, I love her. And
they were like, oh, well, we know her best one
of her best friend's girlfriends. And then he was like, oh,

(38:45):
hook that up, not really thinking it was gonna be
but he called. They called the girlfriend tells my friend,
and then he tells me, and I'm just like, athlete,
let me go google him to see what I'm kneeling with.
He was, okay, he cute here, a red bone, you
know him, not my type, you know, but he all right.

(39:08):
You know he's six two and a half, look short,
but it's cool.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
We taller than me.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
I said, all right, well I go on a date
with him. I said, but look, I don't. I'm not
in the move, no bullshit, So tell him don't. I'm
just I'm not in the move. No athlete bullshit, that
ego athlete bush, that spoiled mimmy shit. I said, so
you need to know the people back beforehand. Of course,
he didn't tell him any of that stuff, you know.

(39:33):
He just told him all stuff like oh yeah, you know,
y'all will be good, you know, and then he ended
up calling me, and he was supposed to call me
at a certain time. So you know, after that little
in that four month period, what happened was this, I
started understanding, Okay, you guys said boundaries, you have to
do all these little things that I kind of learned
in the dating that wasn't working, that was causing some

(39:54):
shit that was like, oh no, you the fool. Oh no,
I learned. I had to learn that in the dating process.
So that's why dating is good too, because you have
to learn what you do like and don't like, and
what you will and will not talk correct. It's research.
So I'm ready to now go out and create, you know,
a dissertation. So he's supposed to call me at four thirty.

(40:16):
He did not come here five, so I did not
answer the phone. So I was starting from the gate,
very petty from the top.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
And he might have been thinking, I'm not trying to
look thirsty.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
Why, That's probably what he was. But I was like, well,
according to my clock, I had told you four thirty solid,
very adamant. Now I'm busy. So then he called back
like an hour later, and I picked up and act
like I was sleepy. But we we had a little
conversation and he I was like, well, he asked me
to go on a date with him whatever, and I

(40:48):
was like okay, and I gave him like this date
that was kind of like weeks and weeks ahead. So
it was like May May twenty six because I know
my little man and his stuff now. And then when
he we went on a little date. You know now
normally when you go on your first day and you're
Selena Johnson, Okay, you got to turn up. You know,
you gotta hang you the hair and the nails, and

(41:09):
you know you gotta look like something buyer. Let me
tell you something. I had on a B B jogging suit,
a BB jogging suit with some Louis Vauton sladhs, and
my hair was in. My hair was cute, but it
was it was like it was a sow in. I
had like a little ponytail. And on the booty it
said dangerous. It didn't have the roundstone. It was like

(41:31):
a satin type of little red red on the booty
said dangerous. I still got closed and baby, that's the
crazy movie.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
But he I told him he had to meet me
at my sister's house. He could I meet me in
my house.

Speaker 3 (41:44):
I don't know you.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
And so I drove to meet him and when he
when I got the car, he was so handsome. He
was clean cut, you know, had on this little linen outfit.
You know that was in style at that time with
this air force. But but I was like, if if
these if they don't like me, they gotta like me
from here.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
And guys left to see when you look good like.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
That, apparently because before you're you know, you're thinking, I
have to keep this, you know, facade up. I have
to keep this image up. You know, this is who
they want to be with, So I have to keep
this image. I was like, and that ship is too
tiring after a while, because you do want to just
be yourself, like you do want to say, take my
weave out here, on my regular hair and just be.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
You want to be because you're always on and so
so you be able to have your hair ponytails.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
And so he asked me, and I know there's a
big debate in the world, but he asked me where
I wanted to go eat. And I told this man,
cheesecake factory.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
Hello, see.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
Factory.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
I listen, I do. I don't have a problem with that.
It's just too many options. So I wouldn't have picked
that because a lot of that man, you I never
know what you're right. You be on there for like,
hold on, maybe this.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
Used to get the biscuit the cream.

Speaker 4 (43:03):
Would I used to eat chicken bag and the biscuit,
the biscuit with the chicken, with the gravy, with the peas.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
Staff, see I And you're right about that because what
I ordered I didn't like, but he ordered something that
was sharp. So I spent the end the whole night
eating out of his plate and drinking his ship.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Like y'all knew each other.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
Zero Fox just was like, I don't like my food
and just start eating his food. And I didn't care.
I think I was being obnoxious on purpose too, to
try to see if he would, you know, it was
very that, you know, or just to see, you know,
what what's but he was surprised by everything. He would
just be like smiling, like wow, she's nuts and so

(43:49):
and I was just talking.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
And he.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Was not expecting that, I'm certain. And so when we
were done and we were like, he took me home,
but in the car I fell asleep on him the
whole way home isn't that crazy? Got that man food
and went to sleep and calls and he I was like, well,

(44:13):
I was like, she's I love her. The next day
he called me at twelve, which was very promising because
you know, the people like to call at midnight, so
they didn't come up.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
They think.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
He called it noon and asked me to go on
to lunch date. So after that, for about two three
months he courted me, but I was very stringent about stuff,
and I used to go to Bible study on Wednesdays,
the church on Sundays. You know that I was in
that phase of self reflection, self improvement, so like I
couldn't go to the I had to say no to

(44:47):
the twelve because I had to go to a training session.
But then I was like, well, I'm going to Bible
study at seven. I was like you want to go?
He was like, no, I want to go. I'm I'm
And I was like, all right, well I'll talk to you.
And then he called me right back. I was like,
I go.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
He was.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
Bible went to a Bible study.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
He won.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
He went to the church. He was sitting there looking weird.
You know, I was in there. He was just sitting
there you know, his hands uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
You know, that's a big thing to take somebody to also,
because you have people in churches all looking like, Okay, that's.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
What you trying to see it is he gonna blow
up your flames in here. I'm gonna take his answer
to the church and see if he said, and I know,
leave his hands right where the Lord deal with the ashes.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Absolutely, Oh my god, what story? And so and then
you guys were on marriage boot camp. Yes, and I
know you had said that you had went to therapy
before doing that. You guys were already in therapy.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
We had to go to couple's therapy because we started
having We had a lot of turmoil in our relationship
because when Kiwan retired from basketball, he suffered a depression.
He went through a lot of different emotional traumas, you know,

(46:09):
because before he's been able to live his life, you know,
be on the run, you're you know, he had he
had a he has a son, you know. But they
were in America for two months out of the year.
He's in America all the rest of the other team
because I lived with him for four years overseas, so
the other ten months were overseas. Which means everything in
America is like, well, we lived in Italy. Oh, it's

(46:34):
fantastic because everything is slower and.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
Time. I know, I know the other way exactly, and
we lived in Venice at one point.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
But it's so much was because you know, he was
to start playing a basketball team, and you know, the
way that they embraced the players over there, like it
was like it was the bomb. It was a little boring,
but when you have each other and that's all that
you need.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
Yeah, because because your family, there no distraction.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
No distraction except when I had my first baby. My
first son was over there with me. I got pregnant
overseas and then I had to wait till his two
month shots. And then I was like, I know, you
don't think I'm finna raise this baby by myself. So
we're down to this plight. So I just stayed over there.

(47:31):
But you know, all the all the doctors and everything,
all the health care was free. You know, they would
just assign you a doctor that spoke English.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
You know that's crazy because we certainly don't have that
here at all.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
Now. Everything places, Yeah, absolutely, yeah, it worked, especially the team.
You know, they didn't pay for any of that stuff.
They didn't pay for anything their apartments or anything. We
were to save a lot of money because we didn't
pay for anything over there. You just go over there.
You don't pay for anything. Like even after the games
or whatever, there would be like family restaurants, Like they
didn't have like fast food like they had it, but

(48:04):
it'd be closed, so but the family restaurants will cook
up a full five course meal. It was just wow.
Now you weren't watching nothing on TV. But unless you
got like.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
A little these NBA players and you also have to
think about you're right because that was his career. Like
imagine you just stopped singing Stoff going.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
And I did, though. That was and that was a
very that was a pivotal moment in my life, like
he won literally saved my life. In two thousand and six,
I was dropped from Jive Records and they dropped me
and I didn't even know what happened, And so I
went over to I'm not sure if it was Deaf Jam,

(48:48):
but Kevin Lowles was in the meeting. And I remember
going over to the meeting with my lawyer and being
in the room with Kevin Lowles and he looked at
me like he didn't know. They took the meeting, but
they looked at me like they didn't know who are
I was. They were like, and I had three albums
out and he was like, you don't have any new material.
I'm like, I just released the album. What am I
supposed to go do? And so it's just like, oh, well,

(49:10):
Collins when we have another album. And I was really
devastated behind that, and so keiwan I say, I feel
like he saved me. My husband's name is Kiwan. I
feel like he saved me because I was able to
go overseas after that, to Italy. We were living in Milan,
of all places. He had just proposed to me in
that July. That happened in April. He proposed to me

(49:30):
in July, and then I just packed my ship and
went to Milan and just stay.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
Yeah, yes, perfect time.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
And I could and I could be a I literally
for the first time feel like I can actually act
like a woman. I could act like and I, but
I could act like I could be in the actual
role of what we were designed to be. I'll say
it like that the traditional, the traditional or just the

(50:00):
the design of women. We were not made to take
care of men. We were made to help men. We
were made to take care of our children, but we
were not made to take care of full blown households.
So when you're an entertainer and you're by yourself and
you're a woman, you're single, you are your household and

(50:20):
whoever else around you that you need to help, you
know what I'm saying. But the pressures of having to
fight and hustle and scrape and scrap and scratch to
get to the so called success goals in your life,
the release of that was just it was healing and
I could just be a mom or a girlfriend.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
To even think about that because you have been working
since you were so young.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:46):
And then and being able to go just go over
there and then he's the star, right, so I'm just
and he's telling you know, they know, oh you're a
singer in America, Okay, great, but they don't know your
music really are like that in Italy that wasn't one
of my big markets, so they don't really know. I
was able to just person. I was just getting little girl.

(51:11):
When I tell you, the team Milan, So the way
that they have over like the way it was was
overseas and me, certain leagues are bigger than the others,
like your leagues are obviously bigger. Certain leagues are bigger.
So the Italian League is a bigger league, right. The
sponsor of the team was Georgie our money, Wow girl
we got and he had nerd to play for a

(51:37):
team that was sponsored by PRAD. I was over there
living my life, road noodles and just having a time
with five course meals. It was so free, It was
so different life. It was free. But I got to
be a mom like he He made me a mother
and a wife. He saved me. And then because I

(51:58):
was able to do that, I was able to reappreciate
my music. Because I suffered a depression. I'm talking about
bad depression. Job Records was like a bad marriage. I
was like locked in for eight years, you know, constantly
trying to prove myself for eight years. I guess like
being with an abusive man like you constantly trying to
let him know, trying to get him to see you
as this way, and he constantly keeps shooting you down

(52:19):
or telling you ain't shit all the time, and you
but you, well, maybe if I do this, this will work,
and then it still doesn't work. For eight years straight
from being twenty one years old all the way to
twenty nine, you know what I'm saying. So they were
eight years of my youthful life.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
And then to be able to go okay, you know.
And I didn't know that that was getting ready to
happen to me, but God did. And I'll tell you.
I remember I could. I couldn't even pay my rent.
I could not my mortgage because I had a town
home at the time, and I couldn't pay it because
I was being sued by my lawyers from my divorce
because I owed them so much money. They had charged

(52:57):
me so much money because they figured, to you on
drive records they could fit the bill. So they overcharged
me except for a three year long divorce that was unnecessary,
but they fell.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
I did up.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
I didn't have nothing, but they felt like that job
was the cash cow. So I wasn't able to pay them.
And I remember Kiwan coming too the house and I
swear to God and this is this is very lifetime
movie Hallmark station. But that man walked in the house
with a woman's bible and inside the bike because I
called him crying because I had to go to court,
and I couldn't believe I had to go to court

(53:30):
and I had to go to court by myself and
fight my own lawyers, like stand against my own lawyers.
And the judge was like, you're extorting her, like he
cussed out the lawyers because I was in it by
myself because I was paying, but I just didn't have
enough to pay what they wanted, like they want to
all the stock, right, but if you show intent to
pay something, then the judge leniency. So he called me

(53:55):
and he asked, men, we were dating. This is still
in the dating phase. He called me and he asked me,
you know what what happened at the court? You know
what happened at the And I just I was in tears, crying,
like I don't have this money. I think it's like
fifteen sixteen thousand dollars. I don't have this money. They
want this money right now whatever, And so I was like,
I can't even pay my mortgage on fuck, am I

(54:16):
gonna pay it? You know? So? And I didn't want
to have to tell him that because as Selena Johnson,
you're supposed to have money, you know, but that was
not always the case. And so I'll never forget this.
This is what I was like, Oh, you're my husband
and min We're gonna be together forever. He walked in

(54:38):
the house and he came over and he had a
woman's bible, and in the bible was a check for
the mortgage. Yes, and do you know I never paid
my mortgage from then on ever? Wow? Ever again for
that for that town home ever again. And the next
house was a house we had built up from the
ground that he paid for.

Speaker 4 (54:59):
That is a So it's not about you pay my
bill or any of that.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
It was about him saying I can take care of you,
and I needed it too, because I needed it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
This wasn't about and show yes. Yeah, this was like
I'm just having a bad day and you've never had
anybody do that for you before?

Speaker 2 (55:22):
No, No, because I was doing I was taking care
of me.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
And so then when did you guys get to the
point where you hit a rough patch?

Speaker 2 (55:30):
And how after his retirement and we had to like
walk away from everything because when he stopped working, I
wasn't working, you know, I was just being a mom.
I was pregnant with my second baby, and that he
couldn't get a job anymore. He hurt his hand and
he couldn't. They wouldn't take him back because he was
like thirty five thirty six, because to them, that's old
or whatever. And so for the money that they were

(55:52):
offering him, he didn't want to leave. His family is
a small three year old boy. Then he has a
seven year old and then he has a baby in
the stomach, you know. But you didn't have no answer
financially to combat that. You know, we had savings that
we went through, but I had to get on the
road thirty eight weeks pregnant and start being Selena Johnson

(56:14):
all over again and build us all the way up.
And Kewan was I just think he was just depressed.
He just didn't know what to He didn't know who
he was. He didn't have an identity outside of Kewan
Garris the basketball player.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
I would imagine a lot of athletes because that's what
they're trained to do, like the whole life.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Yeah, and even now my son is following in his
exact footsteps. Just got Player of the Year. He's top
ten in the state of Georgia. You know, he's very
very good, probably gonna do all that good stuff, you know.
But I'm also like constantly telling him stuff like like
I have his Merrill Lynch account. He's sixteen, I got

(56:53):
he got a MARYL. Lynric. I get tack for it
and he.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
Has it now. That's why make him so much better financially.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
Yes, because when you retire. I want him to have
millions of dollars when he retires. Whether it's overseas, whether
it's in the Gila, I don't care where he plays.
He's gonna have money sitting waiting when he's done. That's
the goal. If I have to put it in there,
he has to. But whatever. But he has a gym
shoe company. It's called Sneaky Souls and he like so

(57:19):
I'll let him be an entrepreneur, have something else, have
some more you know interest. Because Kiwan came from you know,
from the street to basketball.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
Basketball. That's it.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
Basketball got him saved him from the what could have
been his.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
Think about how the dynamics change where now you're working.
But he's not doing what he was doing right, So
it kind of like flip.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
Right, and I can't take care of her. That's taking
him out. You see what I'm saying. I'm not in
the predicament where I can do the things that I
used to do. So he thinks that he feels like
I'm looking at him even if I'm telling him you
took care of us for this many amount of years.
I'm I'm gonna do what I need to do regardless
of that. No man, no real man wants to hear
you say that. And it's gonna be okay with.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
That because when you did marriage boot Camp, people were like,
what problems do that? You know, because everything from the
outside lists.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
I don't run We don't run around telling our business.
Real real couples don't let everybody know what's going on
in their relationships up top because that could ruin your
marriage forever.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
Yeah, and I'm sure that was a hard decision to
even do that.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
It was a hard decision, but at that point, I
was like, I don't know what else to do. We
have been through everything and I couldn't. I couldn't think
of anything else. Neither or he couldn't either. That would
help us get back on track. And actually, marriage boot
Camp was the best thing we had ever done because

(58:39):
we realized, oh wow, we're not as crazy. Yes, people
in the house, but let me tell you the couples
we were in that house with were so fun. We
had the best time in history. And what's crazy is
like Spencer and Heidi alone the funniest couple of all time.

(59:02):
Like it was just and uh, Natalie nine and her husband,
they and all these colos are still together, all these
we had the best one because we have stuff, but
we didn't have enough stuff that was like too bad
to tear us up, which we realized when we were
in the house. But the production was kind of like,

(59:23):
all right, guys, this is boring. So Natalie was like, Okay,
I'll go. And Natalie people believed that Natalie is so
Banana's than wild, but Natalie is a smart business I

(59:46):
like she is a joke double major in college soccer player, Like,
no joke she was. She's yes, she she she's just brilliant.
She's a very smart girl. But she understood that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
To use yeah, to use people's clicks yes, in order
to amplify herself.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
And I think my husband seeing other husbands being in
different predicaments that were kind of similar to him too,
like because we're all strong women, all of us were
kind of like strong women out for women, you know,
or taking you know, making money and stuff like that.
It allowed him to be able to see all the
different dynamics and give his self mercy, give himself great,

(01:00:31):
you know, like and then him just you know, he
got with the NBA Retirement League and talking to other
guys and he started playing again and like the other
leagues because basketball is his that's like for me singing
singing for me is like playing basketball. For him is
like singing for his life. It's one of his DNA absolutely,
so when that was taken from him, that was heartbreaking.

(01:00:54):
That's heartbreaking.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Did you think you weren't gonna sing again when she
went overseas? Were you like, this is it?

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Or did you always know you would be turn I
knew that I would return because I still was recording
while I was over there. It's just I was recording
with a different energy. I was recording with I love
the music. I'm doing this because I love the music.
I can't if I don't, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Different vibes and and the new album is called Legacy, Yes,
and this is so tell us about that because I
know that deals with your father's legacy also.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
So you know, legacy pretty much not pretty much every
song on the album will have a sample of my dad,
so you'll hear his voice or his music because he
was the most sampled artist. I'm talking Michael Jackson, jay Z,
Kanye will Smith, I'm talking about over a thousand and

(01:01:51):
like they can't even count. Where's Nima? Like his best
was like his best? Oh god, he did hear that?
A Rizza were like close. Rizza called me when when
he died because they were like friends, because they like
bought his house, you know, they gave him so much
money from samples that my father was able to buy
his own house, you know, buy his house. So I'm

(01:02:14):
going to sample every every song would be a sample
of his. The newest single, Black Balloons, is his voice
in the top, and so it's like Selena featuring Cel
Johnson all of it. But it's not even gonna really
be featuring Cel Johnson. You're just gonna hear remnants of that.
So the album is gonna feel very soul for very old,

(01:02:34):
you know, old old.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
Let me tell you back in the day, we used
to have these clubs called these parties called Soul Kitchen,
and it would be parties where they would play all
the samples that people use and music. It was never
the actual song and you will be like, oh, I
didn't even realize it was only the original. Yeah, okay,

(01:02:59):
let's get that out there. Hopefully they do.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
They should maybe.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
Atlanta, you can do that with your dad's music, really right, Yeah,
when it is the album coming out.

Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
So the album is going to come out probably the
end of second quarter. We still haven't done the date
yet because we're just really having fun with this new industry.
The new industry says you can do whatever you want
to do. You know, we want to put it out
before the third quarter because obviously you want to make
the Grammy cut off, you know, because the Grammy cut
off is like August or something like that. But we

(01:03:40):
just don't know, like we're going to release singles. That's
how our world and our people are starting to our
fans are starting to adjust music before they actually you know,
pull the trigger. So once you get the singles, then
when it's out, it'll automatically download and you're you know
what I'm saying, then you'll have the whole thing. But yeah,
it's it's going to be so good. I have some

(01:04:01):
of the songs are so good and I'm just talking
very grown on this record. It's real fun. It's gonna
be a good time.

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
I can feel yours about it. I can feel how much.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
And it's free. It's nobody in my shoulder telling me
over my shoulder, telling me how to do something. Because
I also built a studio on my home when my dad,
when my father was very sick, and when he died,
I finished it, and so it's called Legacy Studios. It
looks like it looks like a studio studio, I guess,
like this and a booth and everything. It's it's huge.

(01:04:33):
It's like a real setup. So I'm recording the whole
album there. I have my father's ashes in there. I
have this guitar plaques, you know, so there he is.
He is there, and that's what he would have wanted.
My father was was always like, and we own the estate,
which is smart because now the money just keeps coming back.

(01:04:58):
People clean us up perfect, so it just comes right
back in and we will talk to you.

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
I know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
I feel like I feel like this was my father
and I didn't have the best relationship, but I feel
like this is a way I can honor our legacy,
or honor our music or not succumb to what was
the generational trauma and kind of break that generational curse
for my sons. You know what I'm saying, because just
because they're not in music, even though my youngest does
play piano, but he got a studio to work out, right,

(01:05:27):
he can go down to the studio and they can
be free of that generational curse of lack, that generational
curse of underrated or not being seen. That my kids
don't have to feel that way. I'll absorb it. It's fine,
but my kids will not. So my son kJ will excel.
He will get everything that he's supposed to get. No

(01:05:48):
one would be able to stop him because I'm going
to pray those generational curses off of him. If my
father did not do them, now I got to pray
to the secondhand generational curses off of him. And through
our music, I feel like it is honoring our legacy
as opposed to always looking at the cup half empty,
but more so how full it was. So that's all

(01:06:10):
I'm trying to do.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
Well, you deserve it, But I've been taking you so
much for stopping through the seas. I know you've been
working a lot, and I know you know, this is
what you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
Do anding me. This is so full circle. Like you
and I was on Reapers Club, we were there too,
So now I get to be just with you and
with you lovely ladies. Women Like I told her, I
said that, she was like, it's gonna be great. I
was like, oh, you, nothing can go wrong with this women.
She said, oh, no, stuff can go.

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
I was like, well, that's not going wrong with afflimation. Well,
thank you for Women's Yes, Women's Happy Women's Month, for
all of you, and these journals.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
So I have my own journals and I put my
album in there as an artifact. I know y'all probably
even got no CD players, no more but in the cars.
But these journals are just for you to be able
to reflect. I know you said you're doing a vision board,
and so it's good to like jop down some of
the stuff that you may put on your vision board

(01:07:24):
so that once you do it, you're like, Okay, it's
like I got my notes, my pictures, and just every
day reflection. I found that, especially during the pandemic, journaling
was a big deal for me. Now, journaling has been
a big deal since the beginning Chapter one, my first
album was created from journals I can put together. Yeah,

(01:07:45):
I had some wragly a man down.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
To that album.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
We need a part. I feel like there's so much.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
That's one thing I've done is lived.

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
I mean that's what life is.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
Life.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
I've been here.

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
Yeah, we had. If there's one thing I lived, I
could be remember that the little chop proper one life
to live I didnet lived about fifteen.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
Wow, I'm like a cat out here.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
Well it's just more for the son, for the music. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
So I hope you guys enjoy your journals get added
into your daily informations or your daily routine in the morning,
even if it's like two words. I think we get
wrapped up in Well I didn't write en up, you know,
because we're perfectionists. What's your sign Cacorn? Oh god, did
you organize her? And what's your sign? Jim? And okay, Jim,
Gigi is two people. Yes, we gotta when this is

(01:08:36):
offics should be somebody else like, but she's constant right
now is who she is? And what's your son? Pices? Okay,
Pisces are very smart, but there's slick and you're a virgo.
I'm a virgo. If you are dumb around the pisces.
You fell off. Like if you're not sharp, they'll be like,
oh and do their thing which all sharp. They'll be like, oh, okay,

(01:09:00):
those are my levels. Good.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
I love it. We got books, we got a reading.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
Yes, you gotta reading. Not but in your journal. I know,
as women in general perfectionists, so we'll feel like, oh
if I didn't write enough, man, I didn't do good today.

Speaker 5 (01:09:15):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:16):
So even if you have one thing to say, you
might come in there and just say.

Speaker 3 (01:09:20):
I need to get back to it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
Tired, Yeah, period, your business, and that might be all
you have to say, you know, because you might be
just that tired, or you might have a whole dissertation write.
But I really feel like it's good to be able
to just do something every day, you know, even if
I go in there and draw hard. You know, I
love myself today. Ship, I love my man, my man.

Speaker 3 (01:09:43):
That's so crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:09:44):
She was just talking to me about that. And this
whole episode is about writing and journaling.

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
So here we are full circle.

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
Well, thank you so much. That is lip service. Yes, you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:58):
Are awesome. It's so pretty. My goodness. You guys are gorgeous,
all of you with you, so Fae's.

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
Girl.

Speaker 2 (01:10:06):
I was hearing to post down.

Speaker 4 (01:10:08):
That's right, I was not about to still just posing
my next photo.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
I love the hair today. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
This is the fastest braider. My tree braided lady. She's
the bomb, she's ale. It took her two hours to
do this.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
Two hours you need. And she don't break tight so
soon as you be braided. Okay, great, where she's at Atlanta,
But people fly in. They flying in and they make
a trip.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
It's fast to go there, right back and get your
hair braided, then see.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
It for seven hours in the hair salon. Girl, you're
gonna sit in the hair salon all right.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
Well, thank you so much