May 27, 2025 • 19 mins
In this episode of #FeelingsMatter, hosts Michelle Stinson Ross, Tina Schweiger, and Heather Hampton explore the emotion of confusion - that feeling of being bewildered, unclear, or unsure what to do. The conversation examines whether confusion is primarily a thinking state or an emotion, how people typically respond to feeling confused, and how confusion can manifest in relationships. The hosts also discuss the concerning connection between persistent confusion and manipulative relationship dynamics, offering resources and insights for healthier responses to this common emotion.
Episode Highlights:
This episode of the #FeelingsMatter Podcast was recorded and produced at MSR Studios in Saint Paul, MN.Copyright 2025, all rights reserved. No reproduction, excerpting, or other use without written permission.
This episode is sponsored by
FeelWise - bridging the gap between reflection and resilience, offering practical tools to help people overcome obstacles, embrace change, and grow stronger emotionally. https://www.feel-wise.com/
Don’t miss a moment of the conversation, subscribe to the show on your favorite podcasting platform
Podcast theme music by Dubush Miaw from Pixabay
This episode of the #FeelingsMatter Podcast was recorded and produced at MSR Studios in Saint Paul, MN. No reproduction, excerpting, or other use without written permission.
This episode is sponsored by
FeelWise - bridging the gap between reflection and resilience, offering practical tools to help people overcome obstacles, embrace change, and grow stronger emotionally. https://www.feel-wise.com/
Don’t miss a moment of the conversation, subscribe to the show on your favorite podcasting platform
Episode Highlights:
- Tina suggests confusion blends thinking and feeling, noting that people often say "I am confused" (active state) rather than "I feel confused," and observes it can trigger mild anger similar to frustration
- The hosts contrast two common responses to confusion: either giving up ("throwing up your hands") which often involves negative self-judgment, or approaching it with curiosity and optimism
- Michelle shares that her deepest experiences of emotional confusion occur in relationships, particularly when someone says one thing but behaves differently, making it difficult to understand what's true
- The conversation takes a serious turn as the hosts discuss the "weaponization of confusion" in narcissistic relationships, with Michelle noting that frequent confusion in one specific relationship may be a warning sign of manipulation or gaslighting
- Tina recommends resources for handling confusion more effectively, including "The Four Agreements" (particularly "not making assumptions" and asking questions) and Byron Katie's "Loving What Is," which helps with accepting uncertainty
This episode of the #FeelingsMatter Podcast was recorded and produced at MSR Studios in Saint Paul, MN.Copyright 2025, all rights reserved. No reproduction, excerpting, or other use without written permission.
This episode is sponsored by
FeelWise - bridging the gap between reflection and resilience, offering practical tools to help people overcome obstacles, embrace change, and grow stronger emotionally. https://www.feel-wise.com/
Don’t miss a moment of the conversation, subscribe to the show on your favorite podcasting platform
Podcast theme music by Dubush Miaw from Pixabay
This episode of the #FeelingsMatter Podcast was recorded and produced at MSR Studios in Saint Paul, MN. No reproduction, excerpting, or other use without written permission.
This episode is sponsored by
FeelWise - bridging the gap between reflection and resilience, offering practical tools to help people overcome obstacles, embrace change, and grow stronger emotionally. https://www.feel-wise.com/
Don’t miss a moment of the conversation, subscribe to the show on your favorite podcasting platform
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Do you have trouble talking about your feelings? You're not alone.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
It's a topic that can make even the most powerful
people somewhat squeamish. You're listening to Feelings Matter where our
mission is to demystify everything about emotions so that we
can all get more comfortable in talking about them. Join Heather, Tina,
(00:29):
and Michelle as we unpack a new angle on emotions
and the psychology of human nature.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Feelings Matter.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I mish Elston's here, as I have Tedi Schweider, and.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
I'm Feather Hampton have hello, ladies, ed welcome back to
you by another conversation.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Tina, shall we start being a bit confused today?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I'm confused? I have the card confused today, and right
here on the back it says feeling bewildered or unclear
and not sure what to do. I don't know, I
feel I think confused is a really common feeling, don't
you feel it a lot?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Constantly?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
All I could find a reason to feel confused almost
every day. I think. When I started thinking about this
card of confused, it's one of those emotions that's Is
it a frame of mind or is it like a
thought process, or is it an emotion or is it both?
(01:40):
And I think that's what got me thinking, was literally
not sure what to do is like a function of
thinking and being confused. Is I have this option and
I have that option, and or I have this happening
and I have that happening, or I saw this and
I saw that and it's not lining up. And so
it seems to be really front and center with thinking,
(02:03):
and it's not often it's used, I think maybe more
often in that context than it's used as somebody that's
expressing an emotion, like less more often people are saying
I am confused. That's an active state versus I feel confused.
I would challenge the assumption though that it is a
(02:26):
thinking state. And even when you do say I am confused,
it is how you feel, I don't know what do
you think about?
Speaker 4 (02:34):
That?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Is that? I would agree.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
The word that comes to mind is addled like a
sense of agitation that comes with a confusion, like it's
it's yes, a state of mind and a feeling in
conjunction that exists together.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
What immediately came to mind is again.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
Like how do you respond to that emotion? And the
choices are essentially do you let that emotion. Stop you,
I'm confused. I don't understand. I'm giving up on starting
to lay hands or does it make you come from
a place of.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Curiosity and I don't understand.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
What do I need to do to figure out how
to understand what's going on here?
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah? I agree. I think that what you do with
it in the mindset is huge. It feel confused. I
have it in there with a mild anger. It's similar
to the level of like feeling frustrated, you can have confused.
It's just as mild. It isn't a real strong emotion
for me. It's almost quizzical. It is one of those
emotions that people have an emotional reaction to your point
(03:38):
of throwing your hands up and backing off. So that's
a very common reaction to being confused. People don't like
to feel confused. People want to feel certain and they
want to know what's going on. So somebody that gets
confused about something that hasn't really paid attention to that
(03:59):
emotion of the feeling confused and stepped back from that
emotion and said, that's an emotion I feel confused. Now,
let me pause and figure out what to do about that.
In the anger space, we think of optimism so optimistically
can I get on conn I have? I can imagine
a future where I'm feeling more certain about this topic.
(04:20):
And I think curiosity works really well with it too,
because they're definitely not exclusive. I think confusion and curiosity
as to why am I confused? What am I confused about?
But it's really easy for a lot of people that
are that can be reactive. Check your reaction next time
you're confused. Are you one of those people that's forget it,
I'm out or you one of those people that's, huh,
(04:43):
I wonder what's going on here? And I think one
of those reactions can be useful in life, and another
one of those reactions could be counterproductive. Throwing up your hands.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
And like I give up is a lot of negative
self talk, Right, I'm not capable and you're making a
judgment about yourself about your capability, your skill intelligence whenever
it is. And that I think just is one step
again towards all that like deprecation that we do that
(05:17):
brings us down and puts us inaction in general.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Yeah, and it makes me think about just trauma and
how that's related, because how your parents treated you when
you were confused? You're always confused as a child, and
were you punished for that? For feeling confused? What's wrong
with you? Why can't you understand this? Or somebody just
raises their voice and explains it to you more loudly,
(05:46):
or somebody reacts with impatience, But that's all of those
factors have a dramatic impact on how you react to
feeling confused. What gets you most confused, Michelle these days? Oh,
what makes me see a cout used?
Speaker 6 (06:05):
Honestly, as we've been talking through this, and I'm thinking
about particularly neat and emotional experience of coutiused or confusion,
I think about relationships. What about an interpersonal interaction might
create a situation where I would feel confused? And definitely
(06:27):
like that disconnect between you're saying one thing, but you're
behaving another way, and that's confusing.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
It's difficult but process what's really true here? And I
think for me.
Speaker 6 (06:41):
The emotional experience of confusion definitely is tied to relationships. Sure,
but there's lots of things where I just took on
in his job, there's plenty to be confused about. As
far as adding new skills to my skill set, trying
to understand, like what's my responsibility today or tomorrow or whatever?
Like I still, thanks to the work free home situation,
(07:04):
frequently wind up waking up confused and wondering what day
is it? There there are factors of my life that
he again triggered that circumstance of confusion. But when I
drilled down into particularly an emotional experience, a confused I
(07:27):
come back to relationships. I'm trying my best with one
person or another, trying to go what.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Is it you need from me? What can I do
add value to this relationship?
Speaker 6 (07:41):
And when you say one thing and do another, I
find that accusing. And now I can't pick apart silent
to add value in this situation.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
So that's what.
Speaker 6 (07:51):
Rolls around in my brain when I think about an
emotional state of confusion.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Feelings Matter is brought to you by feel Wise.
Speaker 7 (08:08):
Most people can identify three emotions sad, mad, and glad,
but there are over one hundred and fifty six ways
to truly express how you feel.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Feel Wise tools help you build your emotional vocabulary.
Speaker 7 (08:25):
And transform understanding into action. Discover the language of emotions
on the fuel wise.
Speaker 8 (08:32):
Website at Bitley slash feel Wise that b I T
dot L Y slash f E E L WI s
E feel wise, turn emotional awareness into your superpower.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah, confusion your relationships is definitely some of the most
intense confusion because you don't know you're standing right on things. Again,
that's one of the worst uncertainties that we can have.
There's two really great resources that I think of. I
think reacting in a healthy way to the feeling of
confusion is could take a lifetime of practice. So I
(09:22):
think if you're listening to this and you're really realizing, oh,
you know what, I don't react in a way that
I would like to when I feel confused, don't beat
yourself up. It's really a difficult skill to master and
a skill that I don't know if anyone really ever
does fully master. There's two kind of authors that I
(09:44):
like to think of in this space that really help.
One is The Four Agreements. He gets sent Don Miguel
Louise and maybe is his name, We'll have to put
it in the show notes, and that's The Four Agreements
is such a great basic book, and the way that
it addresses confusion or reacting to confusion to me is
when you think about these four agreements, like being having
(10:08):
integrity with your word, like being honest with yourself with
those around you. It helps contribute to certainty for yourself
and for others. Not taking things personally. It's one of
those practices that can help mitigate that negative reaction. Not
making assumptions is an agreement that can prompt you to
(10:29):
ask questions. And when you're confused, the best thing you
can do is to start asking more questions, especially when
it's a relationship, and coming from that without it without
being in a judgment space. Don't make your questions also
attacks that's always best, and then always do your best. Yeah,
that's one of those timeless practices. But I recommend that book.
(10:52):
And then the other one I recommend is buying Katie.
I think she's maybe I don't know. She says well
known or less known or maybe the same, but loving
what is, And that book is really about the process
that she calls the work. And the work is about
really uncovering what you can know to be true and
(11:15):
what you can't know to be true. And that's like
getting down to the truth at such a deep level
that you have to really admit that you can't really
know you can't really be certain. As much as you
want to be certain about everything in your life, you
can't be. It's just the nature of lives. And with
(11:37):
Byron Katie, I think getting to a place of acceptance
with that is this really work. That's been helpful for
me as I've progressed through growth and development in my
own life. So I'm going to leave it right there
because I got nothing else to say about confused after that,
I actually do because that's really ship aspect. I think
(12:02):
there is a relationship between see you and to echused
and experiency crazy making. Crazy making is a clumate acurrence
in narcissistic relationships.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
With crazy making and gas lighting are very closely related
as well, just as far as late things you might
experience in a dissentual relationship, like being in a relationship
with a narcissist.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
And if you find yourself being in a state of confusion,
also you need to unpick what's the source of that confusion,
and it could be a signal that wait a second,
I'm frequently confused because somebody else is trying to.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Make me inter brid what's.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Going on in a certain particular way, and it's making
me crazy it's making me feel confused, and it could
be at least again in the relationship side and in
the emotional experience of confusion, getting curious and going wait
a second, is there a pattern here?
Speaker 6 (13:19):
Am I frequently feeling confused under particular circumstances with a
particular person. That may be your first clue that there's
more going on in this relationship than maybe you were
paying attention to.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
The weaponization of confusion. Yep, it absolutely is a thing
that is spoken like you've had true experience. Sorry, that
is never fun to be on the receiving end of that,
that's not. Yeah, if you're feeling confused quite often in
the context of maybe one relationship versus other relationships in
(13:58):
your life, I think it is worth the.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Cl us her look, And that actually can be a
really helpful thing to unpack because then you realized, oh,
the confusion isn't actually stemming from me, it's being created.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
By other circumstances and things.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
And then then when you unpack that and kind of
get it on straight, then you have a better path
forward dealing with it.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Yeah, definitely, any final confusion thoughts, confused thoughts, other.
Speaker 5 (14:31):
No, I thought that was an excellent point in Michelle's part, Yeah,
I agree, that's fulpful.
Speaker 6 (14:38):
Yes, I'm probably going to very frequently call out things
that might be related if you've been in a relationship
with the narcissist.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
You're welcome. My pain can be your gain.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Oh and all of these emotions that we're talking about it.
I'm glad that you bring it back to that often
because you are so confused when you're in a relationship
like that, and paying attention to each individual emotion and
thinking about it in the context of that kind of
a relationship could be life changing.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I believe it really can be.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
And the truth is.
Speaker 6 (15:18):
That the more you begin to understand what's at play
here and what communication techniques emotional and frankly manipulation tech
the more you're aware of what's actually going on rather
than buying into the story that you're being told, the
better able you are to manage that relationship in a
(15:40):
healthy way. I'm not ever saying that if you experience this,
you're probably in.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
A relationship with a narcissist and you should get rid
of it.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
No, I'm just trying to give you the tools to
better navigate that relationship, because that narcissistic relationship should be
with a parent, it could be with a child, it
could be with somebody that you don't really want to
eject from your life.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Separation at that.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Level isn't always an option.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
But if you can come to a point where you're.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Be aware and realistic about what's going on, if not relationship,
then you're able to establish boundaries and go, Okay, that's great.
I'm glad you can fix that way if you want to,
But that's my boundary.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Where stop here?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Yeah, And there is so much online right now about narcissism,
and I think it is also worth mentioning that everyone
has some at times in your life, different places, different
We all have personality traits that lean in that direction.
(16:55):
When it comes to the clinically diagnosed a narcissist person,
that is really only one to two percent of people.
And to Michelle's point, don't just listen to something like
this and think, the next time you hear your feel
confused because somebody else is saying something that you need
to ditch them and move on. That's people could be
(17:16):
in that place where they're they're exhibiting more of that
personality then at other times, and that may not be
a clinical narcissist at all.
Speaker 5 (17:26):
I would know that the people in my life personally
that I feel like exhibit those kind of traits are
people who have experienced deep trauma as children, and I
think it becomes a coping mechanism to just makes sense
of their world.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, it's just that.
Speaker 6 (17:44):
I find, at least with my particular narcissist, it was
almost a state of perpetual childhood that that person got
to a particular level of dealing with things and just
never out grew it.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Right.
Speaker 6 (18:01):
I frequently remember thinking, Oh, you view the rest of
us as you're toys, and you're trying to like script
and put us in certain roles and whatever, and we
don't know that there's a script in your head that
you're trying to get us to all play too. And Yeah,
(18:21):
I do feel like there's this.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Little bit of perpetual childhood in narcissistic type techniques. And
that's why I.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Want to I try my best to not just immediately
call somebody a narcissist, but rather call out be narcissistic
beavior that they are engaging in, because we can all
do that. There are all times where we feel like
we need to protect ourselves at that level and climbing
(18:51):
into the shell where I want reality to work the
way I want it to work, and never come back
out of that shell is where it because this problematic
Do you have trouble talking about your feelings? You're not alone.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
It's a topic that can make even the most powerful
people somewhat squeamish. You're listening to Feelings Matter where our
mission is to demystify everything about emotions so that we
can all get more comfortable in talking about them. Join Heather, Tina,
(00:29):
and Michelle as we unpack a new angle on emotions
and the psychology of human nature.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Feelings Matter.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I mish Elston's here, as I have Tedi Schweider, and.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
I'm Feather Hampton have hello, ladies, ed welcome back to
you by another conversation.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Tina, shall we start being a bit confused today?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I'm confused? I have the card confused today, and right
here on the back it says feeling bewildered or unclear
and not sure what to do. I don't know, I
feel I think confused is a really common feeling, don't
you feel it a lot?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Constantly?
Speaker 3 (01:19):
All I could find a reason to feel confused almost
every day. I think. When I started thinking about this
card of confused, it's one of those emotions that's Is
it a frame of mind or is it like a
thought process, or is it an emotion or is it both?
(01:40):
And I think that's what got me thinking, was literally
not sure what to do is like a function of
thinking and being confused. Is I have this option and
I have that option, and or I have this happening
and I have that happening, or I saw this and
I saw that and it's not lining up. And so
it seems to be really front and center with thinking,
(02:03):
and it's not often it's used, I think maybe more
often in that context than it's used as somebody that's
expressing an emotion, like less more often people are saying
I am confused. That's an active state versus I feel confused.
I would challenge the assumption though that it is a
(02:26):
thinking state. And even when you do say I am confused,
it is how you feel, I don't know what do
you think about?
Speaker 4 (02:34):
That?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Is that? I would agree.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
The word that comes to mind is addled like a
sense of agitation that comes with a confusion, like it's
it's yes, a state of mind and a feeling in
conjunction that exists together.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
What immediately came to mind is again.
Speaker 5 (02:53):
Like how do you respond to that emotion? And the
choices are essentially do you let that emotion. Stop you,
I'm confused. I don't understand. I'm giving up on starting
to lay hands or does it make you come from
a place of.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Curiosity and I don't understand.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
What do I need to do to figure out how
to understand what's going on here?
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah? I agree. I think that what you do with
it in the mindset is huge. It feel confused. I
have it in there with a mild anger. It's similar
to the level of like feeling frustrated, you can have confused.
It's just as mild. It isn't a real strong emotion
for me. It's almost quizzical. It is one of those
emotions that people have an emotional reaction to your point
(03:38):
of throwing your hands up and backing off. So that's
a very common reaction to being confused. People don't like
to feel confused. People want to feel certain and they
want to know what's going on. So somebody that gets
confused about something that hasn't really paid attention to that
(03:59):
emotion of the feeling confused and stepped back from that
emotion and said, that's an emotion I feel confused. Now,
let me pause and figure out what to do about that.
In the anger space, we think of optimism so optimistically
can I get on conn I have? I can imagine
a future where I'm feeling more certain about this topic.
(04:20):
And I think curiosity works really well with it too,
because they're definitely not exclusive. I think confusion and curiosity
as to why am I confused? What am I confused about?
But it's really easy for a lot of people that
are that can be reactive. Check your reaction next time
you're confused. Are you one of those people that's forget it,
I'm out or you one of those people that's, huh,
(04:43):
I wonder what's going on here? And I think one
of those reactions can be useful in life, and another
one of those reactions could be counterproductive. Throwing up your hands.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
And like I give up is a lot of negative
self talk, Right, I'm not capable and you're making a
judgment about yourself about your capability, your skill intelligence whenever
it is. And that I think just is one step
again towards all that like deprecation that we do that
(05:17):
brings us down and puts us inaction in general.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Yeah, and it makes me think about just trauma and
how that's related, because how your parents treated you when
you were confused? You're always confused as a child, and
were you punished for that? For feeling confused? What's wrong
with you? Why can't you understand this? Or somebody just
raises their voice and explains it to you more loudly,
(05:46):
or somebody reacts with impatience, But that's all of those
factors have a dramatic impact on how you react to
feeling confused. What gets you most confused, Michelle these days? Oh,
what makes me see a cout used?
Speaker 6 (06:05):
Honestly, as we've been talking through this, and I'm thinking
about particularly neat and emotional experience of coutiused or confusion,
I think about relationships. What about an interpersonal interaction might
create a situation where I would feel confused? And definitely
(06:27):
like that disconnect between you're saying one thing, but you're
behaving another way, and that's confusing.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
It's difficult but process what's really true here? And I
think for me.
Speaker 6 (06:41):
The emotional experience of confusion definitely is tied to relationships. Sure,
but there's lots of things where I just took on
in his job, there's plenty to be confused about. As
far as adding new skills to my skill set, trying
to understand, like what's my responsibility today or tomorrow or whatever?
Like I still, thanks to the work free home situation,
(07:04):
frequently wind up waking up confused and wondering what day
is it? There there are factors of my life that
he again triggered that circumstance of confusion. But when I
drilled down into particularly an emotional experience, a confused I
(07:27):
come back to relationships. I'm trying my best with one
person or another, trying to go what.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Is it you need from me? What can I do
add value to this relationship?
Speaker 6 (07:41):
And when you say one thing and do another, I
find that accusing. And now I can't pick apart silent
to add value in this situation.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
So that's what.
Speaker 6 (07:51):
Rolls around in my brain when I think about an
emotional state of confusion.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Feelings Matter is brought to you by feel Wise.
Speaker 7 (08:08):
Most people can identify three emotions sad, mad, and glad,
but there are over one hundred and fifty six ways
to truly express how you feel.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Feel Wise tools help you build your emotional vocabulary.
Speaker 7 (08:25):
And transform understanding into action. Discover the language of emotions
on the fuel wise.
Speaker 8 (08:32):
Website at Bitley slash feel Wise that b I T
dot L Y slash f E E L WI s
E feel wise, turn emotional awareness into your superpower.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Yeah, confusion your relationships is definitely some of the most
intense confusion because you don't know you're standing right on things. Again,
that's one of the worst uncertainties that we can have.
There's two really great resources that I think of. I
think reacting in a healthy way to the feeling of
confusion is could take a lifetime of practice. So I
(09:22):
think if you're listening to this and you're really realizing, oh,
you know what, I don't react in a way that
I would like to when I feel confused, don't beat
yourself up. It's really a difficult skill to master and
a skill that I don't know if anyone really ever
does fully master. There's two kind of authors that I
(09:44):
like to think of in this space that really help.
One is The Four Agreements. He gets sent Don Miguel
Louise and maybe is his name, We'll have to put
it in the show notes, and that's The Four Agreements
is such a great basic book, and the way that
it addresses confusion or reacting to confusion to me is
when you think about these four agreements, like being having
(10:08):
integrity with your word, like being honest with yourself with
those around you. It helps contribute to certainty for yourself
and for others. Not taking things personally. It's one of
those practices that can help mitigate that negative reaction. Not
making assumptions is an agreement that can prompt you to
(10:29):
ask questions. And when you're confused, the best thing you
can do is to start asking more questions, especially when
it's a relationship, and coming from that without it without
being in a judgment space. Don't make your questions also
attacks that's always best, and then always do your best. Yeah,
that's one of those timeless practices. But I recommend that book.
(10:52):
And then the other one I recommend is buying Katie.
I think she's maybe I don't know. She says well
known or less known or maybe the same, but loving
what is, And that book is really about the process
that she calls the work. And the work is about
really uncovering what you can know to be true and
(11:15):
what you can't know to be true. And that's like
getting down to the truth at such a deep level
that you have to really admit that you can't really
know you can't really be certain. As much as you
want to be certain about everything in your life, you
can't be. It's just the nature of lives. And with
(11:37):
Byron Katie, I think getting to a place of acceptance
with that is this really work. That's been helpful for
me as I've progressed through growth and development in my
own life. So I'm going to leave it right there
because I got nothing else to say about confused after that,
I actually do because that's really ship aspect. I think
(12:02):
there is a relationship between see you and to echused
and experiency crazy making. Crazy making is a clumate acurrence
in narcissistic relationships.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
With crazy making and gas lighting are very closely related
as well, just as far as late things you might
experience in a dissentual relationship, like being in a relationship
with a narcissist.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
And if you find yourself being in a state of confusion,
also you need to unpick what's the source of that confusion,
and it could be a signal that wait a second,
I'm frequently confused because somebody else is trying to.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Make me inter brid what's.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Going on in a certain particular way, and it's making
me crazy it's making me feel confused, and it could
be at least again in the relationship side and in
the emotional experience of confusion, getting curious and going wait
a second, is there a pattern here?
Speaker 6 (13:19):
Am I frequently feeling confused under particular circumstances with a
particular person. That may be your first clue that there's
more going on in this relationship than maybe you were
paying attention to.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
The weaponization of confusion. Yep, it absolutely is a thing
that is spoken like you've had true experience. Sorry, that
is never fun to be on the receiving end of that,
that's not. Yeah, if you're feeling confused quite often in
the context of maybe one relationship versus other relationships in
(13:58):
your life, I think it is worth the.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Cl us her look, And that actually can be a
really helpful thing to unpack because then you realized, oh,
the confusion isn't actually stemming from me, it's being created.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
By other circumstances and things.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
And then then when you unpack that and kind of
get it on straight, then you have a better path
forward dealing with it.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Yeah, definitely, any final confusion thoughts, confused thoughts, other.
Speaker 5 (14:31):
No, I thought that was an excellent point in Michelle's part, Yeah,
I agree, that's fulpful.
Speaker 6 (14:38):
Yes, I'm probably going to very frequently call out things
that might be related if you've been in a relationship
with the narcissist.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
You're welcome. My pain can be your gain.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Oh and all of these emotions that we're talking about it.
I'm glad that you bring it back to that often
because you are so confused when you're in a relationship
like that, and paying attention to each individual emotion and
thinking about it in the context of that kind of
a relationship could be life changing.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
I believe it really can be.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
And the truth is.
Speaker 6 (15:18):
That the more you begin to understand what's at play
here and what communication techniques emotional and frankly manipulation tech
the more you're aware of what's actually going on rather
than buying into the story that you're being told, the
better able you are to manage that relationship in a
(15:40):
healthy way. I'm not ever saying that if you experience this,
you're probably in.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
A relationship with a narcissist and you should get rid
of it.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
No, I'm just trying to give you the tools to
better navigate that relationship, because that narcissistic relationship should be
with a parent, it could be with a child, it
could be with somebody that you don't really want to
eject from your life.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Separation at that.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Level isn't always an option.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
But if you can come to a point where you're.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Be aware and realistic about what's going on, if not relationship,
then you're able to establish boundaries and go, Okay, that's great.
I'm glad you can fix that way if you want to,
But that's my boundary.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Where stop here?
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Yeah, And there is so much online right now about narcissism,
and I think it is also worth mentioning that everyone
has some at times in your life, different places, different
We all have personality traits that lean in that direction.
(16:55):
When it comes to the clinically diagnosed a narcissist person,
that is really only one to two percent of people.
And to Michelle's point, don't just listen to something like
this and think, the next time you hear your feel
confused because somebody else is saying something that you need
to ditch them and move on. That's people could be
(17:16):
in that place where they're they're exhibiting more of that
personality then at other times, and that may not be
a clinical narcissist at all.
Speaker 5 (17:26):
I would know that the people in my life personally
that I feel like exhibit those kind of traits are
people who have experienced deep trauma as children, and I
think it becomes a coping mechanism to just makes sense
of their world.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, it's just that.
Speaker 6 (17:44):
I find, at least with my particular narcissist, it was
almost a state of perpetual childhood that that person got
to a particular level of dealing with things and just
never out grew it.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Right.
Speaker 6 (18:01):
I frequently remember thinking, Oh, you view the rest of
us as you're toys, and you're trying to like script
and put us in certain roles and whatever, and we
don't know that there's a script in your head that
you're trying to get us to all play too. And Yeah,
(18:21):
I do feel like there's this.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Little bit of perpetual childhood in narcissistic type techniques. And
that's why I.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Want to I try my best to not just immediately
call somebody a narcissist, but rather call out be narcissistic
beavior that they are engaging in, because we can all
do that. There are all times where we feel like
we need to protect ourselves at that level and climbing
(18:51):
into the shell where I want reality to work the
way I want it to work, and never come back
out of that shell is where it because this problematic
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