August 16, 2016 • 53 mins
Kevin Kline is one of the most acclaimed entertainers working today. So how did the kid from St. Louis end up with an Oscar, two Tony awards, and a career that has intersected with those of Meryl Streep, Angela Lansbury, John Cleese, and Kenneth Branagh, to name just a few? He says that, at Juilliard, the answer came in the form of a pair of tights and lots of dance practice, as well as a merciless culling of his midwestern elocution. Kline's career accelerated early: a cross-country tour with the soon-to-be renowned acting company founded by the great John Houseman led to Tony-decorated roles (three years apart) in "On the Twentieth Century" and "The Pirates of Penzance." His first film role soon followed, opposite Streep in "Sophie's Choice." Kline's stage and screen stock hasn't dipped since. He recently spoke with Alec Baldwin in front of a live audience at the Two River Theater in Red Bank, New Jersey, where he assessed some of his many marquee performances, and demonstrated the most important thing he learned at Juilliard: how to do a theatrical bow from every era since the Renaissance.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing.
Today's program was recorded live at the Two River Theater
in Red Bank, New Jersey. People always ask me, especially
at my age, I get a lot of age related comments. Now.
They always asked me who would you like to work with?
(00:24):
It you didn't get to work with? And I always say, oh,
you know, William Holden and Barbara Stanwick and uh Carrie
Grant and uh, you know, people like that and and
people who are of my own generation, give or take.
I don't really, I mean I admire some of them,
and I don't They've done a lot of them who
(00:44):
I think I'd crawl over broken glass to work with,
you know. But there are a few. There are a
couple of people who their career and the work they've
done and the way they've lived their lives in addition
to the to their careers has always been so um
just inspiring is the word. You know. There's there's not
(01:06):
many of them, you know, and uh, and one of
them is the gentleman I'm gonna introduce, so someone I've
admired my entire life. When I first came to New
York to go to school in nineteen seventy nine. Soon thereafter,
you know there's the Paul Davis posters of this guy
playing Hamlet in New York. This was that you were
told was you know you wanted to be this guy.
(01:27):
You know he was like one of four or five
people this is you wanted to have a career like
so please welcome Kevin Klein. M What was it that
(01:53):
was in the an interview? I read that you said
there was the guy from Juilliards and we taught you
the guy that taught you this the fencing, he taught
you how do you is a walking stick? And they
told you when elizabethan bow? And what's the other kind
of bow? He taught you, jackolbe any kind of about
We learned to bow in every single period, restoration, restation, restoration, bow,
(02:13):
give pick one that's your favorite. Let me see restoration.
I'd have to go back to my notebook. Let's have
you appause again, and I remember this bow. This was
like I don't remember the period, but I thought it
(02:35):
must have been very silly. My favorite. Someone told me
that Olivier had a bow where he'd come in and
he'd taken the house right and then he come over
and taken the house left, and then he had what
he called the crush of humility, the crush of humility,
um in your voice, training and so forth at school
(02:57):
and beyond what is the St. Louis accident that you've
got rid of? How do people and saying there was
talk oh uh, you know I I thought I didn't
have an accent. I thought, well St. Louis is very
neutral it And but what they do with Juliard is
when you get there the day you arrive, as they
tape you saying a bunch of sentences and then at
the end of the first year and they play it
(03:17):
back to you and you do and you start screaming
in horror at how regional you sound. And Edith Skinner,
who was who wrote the book, which is the the
textbook used by every everyone that I know, every every
drama school. And one of the one of the students
said Edith, when I went home at Christmas, all my
(03:39):
friends said I sound affected and phony, and she said,
change your friends. Now. When you grew up, your dad,
I mean all the bio was there and there and
they enter webs everywhere. Um that your dad owned a
music store and he was an opera singer. He's a
(04:02):
trained singer. And you describe your mother as being a
very theatrical character quote unquote. Was she an actress? Never?
Never know? She was very colorful, she was very dramatic
of Irish descent. And yeah, and you were went to
Indiana from music. Yeah. I went there to study music
(04:24):
two years, and then I realized the degree of mediocrity
I had achieved. What you were more like your mother
than your father. You're more actor than a musician. No, no,
I was a terrible actor. But I thought, this is hopeless.
I could see my whole future before me, and it
was utterly mediocre musically. Musically, I said, you'll be a band. Oh.
(04:45):
In high school, I was playing rock and roll, which
is part of the problem. When I went to study
serious music, I had spent too much time, uh playing
sock hops and bar Mitzvah's Um so yeah, rock and
roll was my was my demise. But um no, I
just I could see that I wasn't. I started too late,
(05:06):
and I didn't have the discipline. And I thought, well,
what's did someone tell you you were talented as an actor?
When I started doing plays in the theater department, all
my musician friends would say, I saw you in the play.
You should that's really good. You should do more of that.
And when I would play the piano for my theater friends,
they say, you really good. You should really stick with that.
(05:27):
So I actually had to decide myself. And and they're
from very humble beginnings, you know. I started doing small
parts and worked my way up. Uh in the theater.
What was theater and film in your childhood? Meaning were you,
you know, writing poetry and you were very sophisticated when
you were young, or were you watching mcchale's Navy like
the rest of us on TV? The latter I'd say, yeah, No,
(05:52):
I wasn't. I went to movies. I did not go
to the theater much until I was in it. Huh.
Really in college a lot of theater, but um, it
was movies. I always wanted to I remember, not always,
but maybe towards the end of my high school thinking, yeah,
I'd like to do that. That looks Did you really
think that he wanted to do because you know, this
(06:17):
was in the sixties when being cool was everything. You know,
he had to be like Paul Newman in hud He
had to be cool and heartless, and and I had
massed heartless, heartless? Did you see hud I saw, yeah, heartless?
Roll down the windowhood? Where was it melt? Melvin Douglas?
(06:37):
Melvin Douglass? But he was an idol. But anyway, I
was so cool, and I thought I could never be
an actor because I I feel nothing. I remember my
first acting class at at at Juilliard. I mean, I
had taken some acting classes in college. But I remember you.
(06:58):
Did you ever do those emotional re holes? Of course?
And I want you to recreate a time when you
were really, really angry, and I said, I've never been angry.
I've never been angry. That's the first year. You're gonna
have to give me a minute here the fact angry? Now? Now?
(07:21):
Did you? But but how did you go? I mean
because obviously people as to this day think of Juilliard
is this great temple of arts education. And when you
how do you go from Indiana and you're not sure
you're an actor? How the hell did you get into Juilliard?
I asked myself the same question, because a career a
huge accident. Is it like it's pretty much? But no,
(07:44):
it is. I think I think chance comes into it
quite a bit and being at the right place at
the right time, because I joined Juilliard in the third
year of the four year program. That year they decided,
we need so we have thrown so many students out
and so many have left in desperation. Did we now
have like twelve actors left out of the original thirty five.
(08:08):
We need to fill out the class. So they brought
in David Ogden Styres and me and Mary Joan Negro
to fill it in. And they brought me in because
they and they told me that we need a leading
man because we have all these character actors. And then
they gave me character parts really because that was the
(08:30):
whole the part of the training was to be the
complete actor and to play character roles. And were you
frightened when you were there? Did it scare you at all?
Was it intimidating? Yes? And yes and no. I I
had sort of. I've done it for two years. Well
I did while I was in music school. That was
part of the problem. But I did it heavily my
(08:53):
last two years of college and was actually part of
a group that we formed our own company off campus
and had our own theater and it's night and day.
I was always I was doing a play in the
main stage at the University Theater and also working at
the in this little coffeehouse theater, doing satirical political reviews
(09:14):
every week and improv. And we had a playwright and
we started doing his plays. Um and so I had confidence.
I didn't didn't really deserve it. You didn't come from nowhere.
I mean when you got to Juliard, you've done some theater. Yeah,
and so and so were you in Juilliard? What do
you I mean, this is a kind of a you know,
(09:34):
a lazy question, but what what did you take away
from that? What are your memories of what it did
for you? What did it do for you? Well, it
certainly polished me. I mean you asked me what my St.
Louis accident was. St. Louis has a kind of lateral.
You know, those are fantastic pants you're wearing, man um
(09:57):
now with those are fantastic pants. Those official the trousers
and other pants. You learn not only how to pronounce
the words correctly, but what are the correct It was
a brilliant trousers, It's wonderful, but they but the verse,
how to how to parse verse and break a breakdown
(10:20):
of Shakespeare scene before it breaks you down, and and
a lot of movement. I was very very very tight.
I was an athlete in high school. UM, and I could,
you know, catch balls and things like that, but I
couldn't when I was acting. I was very stiff all
through college. And I was said, you know, I said,
(10:41):
I don't know what to do with my hands. You
know all that you know? Um and Juilliard suddenly they said,
we're now come first thing in the morning with leotard
and tights. Oh no, no, I I don't do leotards
and tights. I don't know what sort of modern dances,
kind of movement with an a Socolo who was a
(11:01):
student of Martha Graham's brilliant UM choreographer. And I'm an
amazing teacher. UM. And so anyway, the short answer is, Um,
I learned to loosen up physically and disinhibited, become more
disinhibited physically. And now people people say, you really move
(11:25):
your hands a lot like a European actor. Um. But anyway,
that's beside the point. But but but but it loosened me up,
and it polished my speech, and it made me appreciate Um,
Shakespeare much more. And listen any great conservatory, whether it's
music or drama or dance. It gives you a protected
(11:50):
place to practice your craft. And protected. When I say protected,
I mean it's never more competitive. Once you get out
as it was then and get up in front of
the class to do a scene is much scarier than
an opening night on Broadway. Uh, but um, it is
protected and you get to you learn by doing it.
(12:12):
Is for how many people here clap if you're studying
acting now or you had studied acting to the few
people when you were there? Did you? Uh? Was it
very production oriented? Did you do shows? Is? When I
went to n y U for the Little for the
brief time I was there, like a year and a half,
it was the opposite. They were like, you know, you
are nothing and you don't get the show to the
(12:36):
Foy and you are nothing, lay on the floor and
just breathe for three years, practice breathing. You know, not
very production But was it? Juilliard is exactly the same.
But I missed those first two years they missed the
lion on the floor here by by no by going
(12:57):
into the third year, it became really production oriented. Costumes,
makeup sets, Yeah, the whole plate. You were assigned a
role and you did it. I missed those days. Um
but um yeah, before then you did something in a
studio with maybe a prop, but it was just about acting,
(13:18):
pure acting. And I missed all that. And when you
got out of there, what was the gap between that
and doing the soap opera? You left Juilliard and you
were on the soap opera? How long? Three or four years? Oh? God, no, no,
no no. I was in the I was in the
acting company for four years, which was a company. I
was in the first graduating class of Julliard. John Houseman said,
I just can't bear the idea, with all this training
(13:39):
that we've given you, that you're gonna go off all
of you are going to go out and do soap
operas or sitcoms or movies, credit card commercial credit card commercials, podcasts,
so whatever. Um so, I'm going to form you into
a company. And he formed us into the actor We
(14:01):
were handed equity cars and put on a bus and
we went and did the four plays that we had
done in rep in our senior year and towards the country.
I did that for four years, during which John Houseman
won an oscar for the paper Chase and then started
doing sitcoms and commercials and all the things he forbad
(14:24):
us to do. So anyway, and so I got out
of the I forced myself out of the acting company
that I've got to face reality and learn how to
really wait tables, you know, and do what actors do,
and pay my dues tables I never did. UM. It
was such a rare and wonderful gift to have here.
(14:48):
What what it used to be in the days of
Olivier and Gilgood and those guys. You'd finished drama school
and you'd go off to a rep company to Birmingham
or wherever, and you would learn, you would do rep.
You would do a lot of plays. And that's what
we did. UM and I did four years of UH play.
We do a little season in New York and spend
(15:09):
the rest of the year touring and UH. There's just
no experience like it. You just really learn stuff, whether
you whether you like it or not. But I finally
had to leave that sort of take on the responsibility
of a proper career outside the acting company. So UM,
(15:32):
I did nothing for nine months. I was starving. UM.
I was doing awful Broadway UM and they would pay
me subway fair. You know this, they pay for my subway. Um,
but in those days, you would invite an agent to
come and see you in your showcase production. That that's
(15:59):
why I would showcase. Then damn Street, I can't evenmber.
I don't think the street had a name where I was,
but I did. I did a bunch of I got
a job standing by for Raoul Julia and Free Penny Opera,
which was fantastic because I got I got to I
had to watch the watch it every night. It was
(16:19):
a wonderful production, directed by Richard Foreman, and I loved
Raoul anyway. He never got sick, I never went on.
But um, my point is that I also, having sworn
never do a commercial or a soap opera, I got
(16:41):
a part in a soap opera, Search for Tomorrow, Search
for Tomorrow, and you played? I played, Would you read?
And I owned a modeling agency for only the most
ulterior of motives, surrounded by beautiful and they needed your guidance,
(17:02):
so I took them under my wing, as it were
Haines's character. But I remember saying the first I say, please,
can we come up with another name? Because I have
to say my name, and to say, would you read
it's going to come out ready wood or woodwind, flatulent
(17:23):
or what what do you read? It's just as hideous name. No,
that's your name. Okay. So I did that for one
year and it was great because I worked out once
a week and I could continue doing my off of
Broadways and standing by for Raoule and that kind of thing.
And then I got a part in a musical and
the rest is History, and the rest is history, which
(17:47):
a hecked m well yeah, and a bunch of people.
It was a musical based on a play that you
did magnificently. I closed the Iron Door on I Closed
the Iron Door and John Barramore did played this character
on film with Carol Lombard. It was called twentieth Century,
A brilliant film, Thank you and um. This was a
(18:11):
musical version that help Prince directed. Comden and Green wrote
the book and lyrics like Coleman wrote the music, and
Madeline con and John Column I did a little little
nothing in the play that the Oscar and uh and
Lily Garland. Lily Garland, Uh, they are in the musical
more featured than her young Lotharia and in the musical,
(18:33):
it's different. In the musical, your part is a big
the part you played the young boyfriend, and that was
a huge part of the music. No, it wasn't. It
wasn't it became a huge part. Do tell well it
was a nothing part that I a friend of mine
who turned down. My agent told me to turn it down.
I turned it down. But when I was delivering the
(18:55):
script back, Joanna Merlin, who was helped Princess was wonderful
actress and a brilliant casting director, said, oh, are you
sure you don't want to do this, because it's you know,
it would be a great You'd be part of the family,
and the part could grow in rehearsals. You know, you
never know. Well, okay, I'll try it, and uh And
I did it and the part did grow, and thanks
(19:15):
to Madeline Cohn, who another action went He said, um,
the guy who's doing all the stick and bouncing off
the walls and doing all this stuff that's not written,
could you fire him please? She didn't. In fact, she said,
let's develop this, and we developed all this stuff and
then we took the show out of town on thes like.
Coleman wrote a song for me to do a duet.
(19:36):
It grew and grew and grew, and I won a
Tony award. Um, no, no, And it was who was
Oscar and that John call Um? Come on, come on,
come on, come brilliant? Yeah, And you did that for
(19:57):
how long? One year? One year? And right for the
I won the Tony. I left. I said, are you crazy?
You just want to Tony? How can you leave? I said, well,
is this a great part of this wonderful Michael Weller
play they're doing down at the Arena stage in Washington waiting.
You're leaving New York to go to and to go
to Loose Ends. It was a play called Loose Ends. Um,
(20:19):
and I love the play and Alan Schneider directed it,
and then it moved to Broadway and I did it
for nine months. But um, I was told I was
crazy to do that. But does that become a guiding
principle for you that you want to go do what
you want to do that excites you, and you know,
after you win the Tony, it's like we're done. Yeah. Either,
I'd say it's a combination of doing what I want
(20:40):
and being talked into things, Um, I don't want it,
but then making the most of them. Have you ever
been talked to I can pour and talk at the
same time. Have you ever been talked into things? Many things? Yeah,
(21:00):
something you were talked into well where people would say, oh, no,
you've got to do that, You've got to it's only
four weeks. And like Pirates Appenzance, I had done. I've
done this very physical comedy in on the twentieth Century,
and then I went off into this serious Michael Weller
(21:23):
played for a year and then oh that was offered
this silly Gilbert and Sullivan. I wasn't a huge Gilbert
and Soul and Sullivan fan. And I was riding through
the park on my girlfriend then girlfriend's bicycle and it
was a beautiful day and four weeks in the park.
What you know, how bad can it be? Um? And
(21:44):
um I was. So I was riding my bike to
my agents in order to turn it down. Um. The
party had originally been offered to Raoul Julia and Raoul
had to leave to go to Francis Coppola's Zootrope. Come.
But he had a rep company and when you've had that,
we first started the Zoo Trope and he had this
(22:06):
literally repertory company. So Raoul had to bow out, so
suddenly the part was open and anyway, I said, okay,
I'll do it four weeks with the hell and then
it moved to Broadway for a year, and then we
made a movie of it and did you win another Tony?
Oh yeah. But it was a combination of it being
(22:30):
a beautiful day and my agents ayn't come on, it's
four weeks, Well why not? It won't won't kill you.
At the beginning of a relationship with Joe, yes, well,
I admit him because I carried his spear one summer
before I ever started Juilliard. Um, it came came up
early before September and got a job carrying a spear
(22:51):
and other items and actors carried Charles Derning once with
seven other guys. M on a beer anyway, several beers.
Any case, Um, long story short, it's too late for that. Um,
never mind what Joe Joe? Yeah, I met him, but
(23:15):
I and then I met him. I met him when
I was standing by for Rold Julia. I met him,
but then when I did Pirates, then I met him
and he kept saying nice to meet you, and I
was like, you know, I didn't want to tell him
that I had met it. Sure, but yeah, that's when
I started. That was when he really met you and
really I know you. Yeah, Oh, Joe Pap Joe Pap
(23:36):
and describe what he was like when he first worked
with him. Well, uh, I love Joe. I missed him
every day. He became a mentor and a kind of
strict but loving father guide mentor um, and I'm very
(24:00):
He came to the dress rehearsal and Wilfred Leach, the durgor, said,
now Joe is probably gonna give you all notes. Be
sure to ignore them. And uh, and Joe said to
me after the brother he said, you know, uh, the pirates,
these are all gentlemen, their peers of the realm, you know,
so it's all. They're very sophisticate, there's not They're not goofballs,
(24:21):
you know. I went, That's that's all I'm doing is
goofball you know. Um, that's all I got. So I went.
I went to the director and to Grazilla Danielle de Carrever.
I said, Joe says that the should be gentlemanly and dignified.
They said, I told you not to listen to Joe
because Joe he was right, um, but we had sort
(24:47):
of gone another direction. Joe was Joe was great. The
one thing that sometimes the notes you had to take.
But but you know, any actor who's had enough experience
knows to take any note from your director, from your
best friend, from your wife, from your fellow actor, take
it all with a grain of salt. I remember John
(25:09):
Travolta called when they announced we're gonna make a movie
of Pirates. Depend sense John Travolta apparently I heard called
Joe and said I want to play the pirate king.
And Joe said, we have our pirate king. That was Joe.
Joe was utterly loyal and um and demanded loyalty and
got it. And I would whether it was whatever, whatever
(25:32):
play opening night, you'd come back and say, you say, okay,
so next next year, what's it going to be? What
are you ready to do Richard to or Hamlet or
what do you want to do next? And he sort
of exact a commitment and I needed that. And how
soon after you do Pirates do you go to make
(25:52):
your first films right after that? Right? Yes, it was
right during Pirates of Penzance we were still running it
on Broadway and Alan Pacola offered me the part in
Sophie's Choice, and and and he said it was something
(26:16):
he saw in Pirates of Penzance that made him want
to cast me. And I wasn't about to talk him
out of it, but I thought, what an imagination. And
he was all, I couldn't have had a better first
director for a movie. He totally indulged the actors. It
was all, oh, yeah, the actors. We came on the
(26:37):
set first thing in the morning. There's no crew, there's
no shot that's been designed. It's like, what do you
want to do? Shows where it shows? Show me where
you want to go. And then he'd bring Nestor Elmendro
is one of the great cinematographers, and the rest of
the coup. Okay, watch this, and then we do what
we wanted. Did you know Merril before the No, you've
met her on that time? No, I met her once. Uh.
(27:01):
She came back to stage after Pirates of Penzance. In fact,
I think that's right, bet her. And did you I mean,
you've done the soap, You've done no TV, other TV,
you'd only done the soap and uh, and so when
you're on the set a coola Nestor Admiral been making
a lot of films by then. She's just done The
French Woman and Cramer Versus Creamer, a couple of others,
(27:24):
but she's that was her first, big, big, her most
recent in Manhattan. Yeah. Yeah, And so when you do
this film, do you like, are you sitting there saying
to yourself, I wanna I'm gonna learn how to act
differently in front of a camera. I remember Gracila Danielle,
the choreographer for Pirates, because when we were as I
(27:45):
said that the show was still going on Pirates, she said,
you know, you can't do that, all that face stuff
you do on film. You can't make those faces, okay.
And other people have said, you know, it's film. Acting
is completely different from age. Acting is say oh no, oh, dear, well, okay,
I'll just give it a shot. Um. But I learned
(28:08):
after a while that acting is acting. The audience is
much closer on film, and in fact, you can do more,
uh in some ways on film that you can't do
in the in the theater because the first row wouldn't
even hear you. Um but um, but it wasn't adjustment
(28:28):
fear ye, well because but I'm saying this to be
just flattering. I mean, you are someone who's done both
at the highest level. You've given great, great performances in
films and you've given great, great performances in the theater.
But was it tough for you? Was it difficult fear? No? No,
I didn't know. No, I mean it was scary because
(28:49):
I thought, what if everything I've learned in the last
whatever ten years of acting professionally on stage, if it's
not applicable itself as a whole new skill set and
I have to learn, it's going to be pretty daunting.
But no, it was. And Pecula said, think of filmmaking
as rehearsal, where you try at a bunch of different
(29:09):
times and then I'm going to pick the best one.
But that's what rehearsing is. And each day you work
on a scene or two of the play in the film,
you shoot a scene or two of of the thing,
and you work on it and do it a few times,
and you trust the director. And also he invited me
to dailies. Did you find that helpful? Totally? And I
(29:31):
am always taken aback when certain insecure directors don't want
the actors to come to dailies because the first day
I went, I saw, oh, the first of all, the
way I was being lit was brilliant. Um, I mean
that's the character, I thought. And then I would go
to Pocula and I'd say, okay, the it was the
(29:52):
the first take of the first take, the for the
beginning was good, and then right in the middle it
was like taking why did you say that take three?
Right for for for the middle part and the ending
I thought worked best in take four, and he said,
I totally agree. And then I knew that we were
on the same page as it were, and the what
(30:15):
I was seeing and what he was seeing, that we
were all in sync, that we were it was great. Actually,
Meryl was a tremendous help. She remember once I was
making a huge meal out of just me doing had
to give Stingo, the character's name. I had to give
him some money because he had been robbed, and I
(30:36):
was doing, you know, you're a writer, you need this
money in Biliba and I was just emoting, and she said,
just just give him money and just or you can
just say it, you know, just say it. You don't
have to and and so yeah, probably, I guess I
(30:58):
was doing too much. I know, I certainly was, but
but I was helped by Pecula and U and Meryl.
And what a great thing to have your first movie
with a great director like Pecola. God, he was so
such a spoiler. Who were some of the other directors
even in the theater that helped you well. Jerry Friedman
directed my class in school for Scandal when we were
(31:20):
still at Juilliard, and then we went into our repertory,
and then years later he directed to Live Danner and
me in What You Do About Nothing in the Park.
He was a wonderful director. Um and uh, I learned
he was the first one like Pecula. Pecula did the
same thing in terms of empowering the actor. Pecola would
(31:43):
say to me, look, whatever we've talked about in this scene,
what we think it's about, or what you know, what
could happen if you get a different impulse during that scene.
Forget what I said, forge at what we plan. You
follow your impulses. The character was this psychopath and had
(32:06):
to be unpredictable, and he wanted it to be as
spontaneous as possible. And then again I was blessed with Meryl,
who Meryl's. Meryl said don't don't. Don't be afraid you're
gonna hurt me, because a lot of it was very physical.
She said, you can't, which I took us a challenge,
of course, but she was right. And and Picola said
(32:27):
do what you want. And the same way Jerry Friedman
on in the theater was the first director to say, Okay,
we're just gonna sit around the table and read it,
and when you feel like moving, get up and move.
And pretty soon the tables are cleared away and we're
moving around, and we're moving when we want to move.
We're not waiting for the director to say you can
now walk over there, now, put your hand in your pocket,
(32:50):
now say it this way. Now, that's what And he
was the and it was that empowerments like you decide
what does this mean to you? What? What? How do
you want to do this? And that that was the
that was the key to for me, both on stage
and film, and those directors, the directors I love. Larry
(33:12):
Kastin is the same way Larry's how many movies have
you made with Casson? Why what about him? He lets
you contribute, He doesn't tell you what to do. He
wants to see what you're gonna do, and he'll guide
you back to the road if you've strayed too far
afield and make a suggestion. But he loves actors. Peter
(33:33):
Bogdanovitch told me a story about was it Howard Hawks
or John Ford who directed Big River? Whoever did john
Wayne was saying, Hey, this guy in Montgomery, Cliff, this
new kid, he's got these big emotional scenes and I
I've only got a you know, a couple of lines here,
and I need I need some other big scenes. And
(33:54):
he said, Duke, you need three good moments in the film.
The rest of the time you just try not to
annoy the audience. Kevin Klein has nailed that advice. Coming up,
how we almost missed his surprise oscar Win and why
(34:15):
his mom wasn't going to let that happen. Explore the
here's the thing archives. I speak with Julianne Moore, who
also spent some of her early years working on a
soap opera. I used to do what they called emotional applicate,
where if I had to say something that was really
just plot oriented, I try to like cry on top
(34:37):
of it or laugh on top of it. Or anything,
just to make it mean something. Take a listen that
here's the thing, dot Org. This is Alec Baldwin and
(34:58):
you're listening to hear is the thing. A few big
name actors managed to avoid Hollywood typecasting, but my guest today,
Kevin Klein has that rare power to reinvent himself and
delight audiences in the process. Compare his early role in
Sophie's Choice with a later one like a fish cold Wanda.
(35:21):
You know, once you start making movies or become a
big star on Broadway or whatever it is, and you're
offered things, you don't have to audition anymore, it's a
terrible burden. Well it's it's it's a great, great it
really is. No. But in in drama school, you're you're
(35:41):
assigned or in the old meal days of the early
days of movies, you were assigned a role. You're gonna
play Red Butler and gone into it. Well all right, um,
you know, and you just did it and did what
you were told. But now you want to do this,
so you want to do that, You want to do this,
you want to do that. Uh, I don't know. You
have to choose your you know, and you have to
(36:04):
have people that can counsel you, was going to advise you.
What's the movie like? Did you start to get excited
about being in movies? And oh, god, I'm so excited.
What's the one that you just said? God, I'm so
excited I'm doing this movie Sophie's Choice. Yeah, it was
my first one. It was like insane. I was like,
I can't believe this is unbelievable. I didn't I didn't
(36:25):
have to start being the pizza delivery guy with one
line and work my way up. I just was hit
the ground running. I mean, I've been toiling desperately in
the theater for ten years. And God rest his soul,
and God love him, wanted an unknown. He didn't want
any baggage. You wanted someone that you couldn't predict what
(36:48):
they were going to do. And that's me. No one
knows who the hell I am. What What do you
think people hire you for. It's very tricky that sometimes
you you you you become suspicious that it's for the
wrong reasons. Because now the way the movie business works,
(37:08):
a lot of times they would like can we use
your name? Will you attach yourself to this movie? In
the old days, like the movies green Lit, it's happening,
you're offered a part. Yes, no, okay, Now it's will
you attach yourself to this movie? And then if we
get another a few people to attach themselves and they
(37:28):
have a certain amount of guaranteed box office revenue in
foreign sales, blah blah blah, we will be able to
raise the money to make this movie. Okay. So a
lot of times I think, well, they obviously just need
some they just name for that. I'm not right for
this part. They don't like my work, they hate me,
(37:48):
they don't care about me, they don't love me. But
it's like that with those you're in meetings now because
the business is completely overtaken now by non creative people.
They don't have any back on as writers or you
know whatever, as producers. So everything is about gaming at me.
I mean, the joke in Hollywood is you're having a
meeting with him about, you know, the biography of Thomas Jefferson,
(38:11):
and they said, who's gonna play Sally Hemmings And they're like, well,
Sandra Bullick is gonna play how Sally Hemmings? I who
else could they be? They complain, you know, I I mean
it's so it's so cynical that way. When um, when
I did the movie, Dave uh, I love that movie,
(38:38):
me too. I love that movie, and I of course
I turned it down first, but I was I was
talked into it, and I'm glad I was. But Ivan
Rightman told me, said, the studio is pressuring me to
use Arnold Schwarzenegger. And I tried to explain to them
that if you're Austrian, you cannot be President of the West.
(39:03):
Of course, the irony is years later he became governor
of California and probably could have run for president and
may still who knows, But he just thought it was
he had to kind of force me on the studio.
And I'm glad he did. Now a movie, so I'm sorry.
It's actually it's actually a fish cold wander, right, because
(39:24):
the British, the British British, you shout out when you're
expressing love and admiration. For Mr knew exactly a fish
cold Wanda, which to an American here sounds like, well,
how did the fish know how to use a telephone?
Why would they you know? But that's the British, you
(39:46):
know locution. Anyway, A fish cold Wanda. That part was
written for me by John Clees. He wrote it. Have
you known him before him? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I knew him. Um.
(40:07):
We had met many times over the years and we'd
always have dinner and we're talking. And then he did
a little part in Silverado and we actually shared a
house for a couple of weeks that he worked, and
it was there when he told me he said, I'm
thinking of a film, an idea, and I'll and he
he actually told me he said, I've you know, a
(40:27):
year or so later when he wrote the first draft,
and he said, I've written something for you where you
were the most evil person in the world and you
were run over by a steamroller and you eat Michael
Palin's Tropical Fish also sounds great. Um, let's do it, um,
(40:50):
and never thinking it would ever get made or anything,
and you want an Oscar for that film? I did
you have an idea that you were going to win?
Pardon me? Did you think you were going to win? Oh? God, no,
you didn't. Not for a moment. I was actually rehearsing
I Love You to Death in l A at the time. Yeah,
(41:17):
that's the problem. You see a smattering um, not that
big a hit, but a wonderful movie. And I was
working on my Italian accent for the role and UM,
and the Oscars were coming up, and I was just
very ensconced in that, trying to master an Italian accent.
(41:38):
And then I said, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna.
I'm just gonna stay home and work on my accent
because we start shooting in four days whatever. I'm not
going to go to the Oscars. Everyone tells me I'm
not gonna win, apparently people who were following the odds
makers or whatever. I said, you're not even a dark horse.
You're not like oh and chemic cut never mind and um.
And I'm rehearsing with River Phoenix, who's nominated also for
(42:02):
UM Running on Empty. We're in the same category. And
he's so sick. He was so sweet. I hope you win.
I hope you win. You're so great in this movie.
But anyway, so I'm nominated. I call my home and
my mother says, we're all gathered around the TV tomorrow
night to watch. And I said, Mom, I'm I'm not going.
I got I got a lot of work to do.
I'm doing this and I'm not gonna win, and I don't.
(42:25):
I just it's a long evening, so I'm not gonna go.
She said, who do you think you are? You'll go
get right out there. You do exactly, and he went,
I'm not tupsy. Though that was like okay, okay, okay,
(42:47):
I'll go. Um and then went, I won. I really
I had. I was stunned when they said your name,
I was stunn went I was sorry. It's a strange thing.
Is a strange thing. I remember. I was presented the
(43:08):
award by Sean Connery, Michael Caine and um, there were
three Brits and Roger Moore and they were they were
all They're presenting and doing Britt Britt jokes, you know.
And then they said and the winner is Kevin and
then they kind of ushered me off stage, and I
just said the F word about twenty times, and I thought,
(43:31):
why am I cursing? This is like a I couldn't
believe it be it was. There was no contempt on camera, no, no, no,
you know, as they but I thought they must like
I'm completely insane, and I just kept saying it just
was a catch all word that covered a myriad of
(43:54):
emotions from contempt to Disgraced and Rome as what's your head?
I was like, yeah, a scream out fun. I didn't
know what it meant, and then I learned later on
it meant nothing except that people Oscar and Kevin Klein
(44:15):
um and that that was it. But but it didn't change.
Oh didn't you change your career? No? I was didn't.
Were you too offered more comedy rules? Yes? But I
was being offered more comedy rules because I did a
fish called Wanda, not because I want an Oscar for it?
What what? What did you go shoot right after that?
What movies did you make? Right of the one that
(44:36):
I'd rather not discuss? Uh? But then I did? I
Love You to Death? And the one you read discuss
because you just didn't like making the movie wasn't fun.
It was called The January Man it was it wasn't not. Yeah,
it wasn't fun because I thought it was a comedy
and they I don't think the director did. And I
didn't realize that until halfway through. No, it was a John.
(45:01):
So everyone's in an operating movement. You're going, yeah, what
are you doing? Oh I'm a doctor. But but any way,
you it was a John Patrick Shamley script, and Shamley
is ironic, and you know, funny, everything's and funny. So
I saw the whole thing as a satire. And the
director we talked about it before doing it, and I thought,
(45:24):
he but it is it didn't it didn't want you
to do after that, I Love you to death, yea,
which was the most fun maybe I've ever had. Oh
my god, it was brilliantly funny script based on the
true story of a guy who's white. He didn't see it,
and I've seen love definitely. Who directed the film, Lawrence,
(45:47):
has have you ever written any films or written any scripts? No?
I rewrite. I do know, because we were talking earlier
about both of us having worked on a soap opera
that someone told me about about the second week, said,
you don't have to say the lines that are written.
You can rewrite any of this. No one cares, okay,
(46:10):
And I started to learn I would because these lines
were unutterably, inutterable, awful, horrible. So I did a lot
of rewriting. I learned a lot about rewriting and now,
and I'm sure you feel the same way, not only
with comedies, but and it started with Sophie's choice. Meryl said,
(46:32):
are you saying the lines has written? And I said, yeah,
just you don't have to if it doesn't fit in
your mouth, you know, and if it's you can. She
saw me worrying about saying the line right, you know,
and getting into the word perfect. And I was used
to four or five weeks of rehearsal. We had three
(46:52):
weeks of rehearsal for Sophie's choice. But Meryl didn't want
to rehearse we want She wanted to, well, let's just talk,
let's have it happen while the camera's running. Well that's interesting.
But I didn't have that repetition that you get in rehearsals,
so the lines. So she saw that I was struggling
to just say, you know what you're saying. You can
sprint in your own words. One of my favorite films
(47:14):
of yours, I mean one of them, I mean there's
a few, one of my favorite films. It was is
In and Out, I Love, I Love not Move. Thank you.
Was that a good experience for you? Was that a
good experience for you? Yeah, it was a great experience.
He was, yeah, great fun. And I mean Frank Ozz
was terrific as a director, and Joan Cusack surprised. Yeah,
(47:39):
just amazing. Everyone and Tom Selick, everyone was a delight.
It was. It was most fun and and except for
rare occasions, Frank ozz was that kind of my favorite
kind of director, like show me what you want to
do here he let us do your thing. Oh we
(48:00):
am I mistaken? I don't think we mistaken? Are we
going to take some questions? Here? Is that right? Do
we do we have Mike? Do we have Mike's repet?
Which one year? What's coming up? In your hand? If
you have a question, who said what's coming up next? Okay,
that's my stand un please, and you want to know
for what's coming up next? For Kevin? Here we go, Kevin,
what's coming up next? Did I say that right? Um? Nothing,
(48:35):
I don't know. I don't know. I'm I'll be reading
a script on the car home and my agent wants
me to call right after I finish it because they're
offering me a huge pay day. Another question for Kevin,
Thank you very much, Sat, thank you. Another question for
Kevin Martory? How you no? And I remember I had
(49:14):
a friend, a producer friend said, oh, you're gonna do
a movie with John Clees and Michael Palin. From the
part I mean that that's very British humor. It's not
the same as our humor. And I said, I don't care.
I mean, first of all, I don't I don't believe
in I think humor is humor. What's funny is universally
funny if it's human um And I adored Monty Python
(49:39):
for me the opportunity to work with Michael Palin and
John Clees. I don't care if anyone sees it or
any or if it sucks. I wanna. I want that experience.
There was no question about doing it. I didn't know
it was going to be a big hit. I didn't
know while making it it was going to be a
(50:01):
hit of any kind at All I knew was it
was great fun to do. And my favorite day I
think on this was one day when I was I
got to direct John and Michael in a scene. I
wasn't even in the scene, but by directing, all I
did was remember in rehearsals you did this. It was
much slower and it was much more excruciating when you're
(50:21):
trying to get him to say cath Kart Towers and
I think you're rushing, but if you slow down and
and he did, and it it's in the movie. And
I directed John Please and Michael Palin in comedy acting
(50:41):
that was fun. Um uh. I wanted to say, um.
I wanted to say a couple of quick things because
we're out of time, and that is thank you to
Kevin for making the time. But I'm under the impression
you don't do a lot of this and U um no.
(51:03):
But I mean, like a lot of press, I don't.
I hate I hate interviews. I don't like them at all.
And and but I want to say that, you know,
in my lifetime, it's it's always the same thing comes
back to me. And as that the people I've observed
that I admire and you are, you know, surely one
of the most admired actors in my lifetime in this business.
(51:25):
And I want to say, but I want to say that,
um that the people who are great like you can't
be great, You just can't. You can be good if
you have two of these. You can't be great if
you have one of these. But if you have two
of these traits, you can be good. But you can't
be great. But you can really be great if you
(51:48):
have all three of these traits for men, and that
is masculinity, intelligence, and sensitivity, and you exhibit all those
things in all the films that you've made, and you're
really great. They're really a pleasure to watch your career.
What was the middle thing? What was the middle thing?
What was the middle thing? Yeah, it was intelligence. What
(52:08):
I'm going to emasculated intelligence, sensitive, sensitivity. Ken. Thank you
so much, Alec, Thank you all very much. Kevin Klein.
(52:33):
We want more of you. Here's hoping that script you
read in the car will give us that opportunity. Thanks
to everyone at the Two River Theater in Red Bank,
New Jersey, from making this possible. This is Alec Baldwin
and you're listening to here's the thing two
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing.
Today's program was recorded live at the Two River Theater
in Red Bank, New Jersey. People always ask me, especially
at my age, I get a lot of age related comments. Now.
They always asked me who would you like to work with?
(00:24):
It you didn't get to work with? And I always say, oh,
you know, William Holden and Barbara Stanwick and uh Carrie
Grant and uh, you know, people like that and and
people who are of my own generation, give or take.
I don't really, I mean I admire some of them,
and I don't They've done a lot of them who
(00:44):
I think I'd crawl over broken glass to work with,
you know. But there are a few. There are a
couple of people who their career and the work they've
done and the way they've lived their lives in addition
to the to their careers has always been so um
just inspiring is the word. You know. There's there's not
(01:06):
many of them, you know, and uh, and one of
them is the gentleman I'm gonna introduce, so someone I've
admired my entire life. When I first came to New
York to go to school in nineteen seventy nine. Soon thereafter,
you know there's the Paul Davis posters of this guy
playing Hamlet in New York. This was that you were
told was you know you wanted to be this guy.
(01:27):
You know he was like one of four or five
people this is you wanted to have a career like
so please welcome Kevin Klein. M What was it that
(01:53):
was in the an interview? I read that you said
there was the guy from Juilliards and we taught you
the guy that taught you this the fencing, he taught
you how do you is a walking stick? And they
told you when elizabethan bow? And what's the other kind
of bow? He taught you, jackolbe any kind of about
We learned to bow in every single period, restoration, restation, restoration, bow,
(02:13):
give pick one that's your favorite. Let me see restoration.
I'd have to go back to my notebook. Let's have
you appause again, and I remember this bow. This was
like I don't remember the period, but I thought it
(02:35):
must have been very silly. My favorite. Someone told me
that Olivier had a bow where he'd come in and
he'd taken the house right and then he come over
and taken the house left, and then he had what
he called the crush of humility, the crush of humility,
um in your voice, training and so forth at school
(02:57):
and beyond what is the St. Louis accident that you've
got rid of? How do people and saying there was
talk oh uh, you know I I thought I didn't
have an accent. I thought, well St. Louis is very
neutral it And but what they do with Juliard is
when you get there the day you arrive, as they
tape you saying a bunch of sentences and then at
the end of the first year and they play it
(03:17):
back to you and you do and you start screaming
in horror at how regional you sound. And Edith Skinner,
who was who wrote the book, which is the the
textbook used by every everyone that I know, every every
drama school. And one of the one of the students
said Edith, when I went home at Christmas, all my
(03:39):
friends said I sound affected and phony, and she said,
change your friends. Now. When you grew up, your dad,
I mean all the bio was there and there and
they enter webs everywhere. Um that your dad owned a
music store and he was an opera singer. He's a
(04:02):
trained singer. And you describe your mother as being a
very theatrical character quote unquote. Was she an actress? Never?
Never know? She was very colorful, she was very dramatic
of Irish descent. And yeah, and you were went to
Indiana from music. Yeah. I went there to study music
(04:24):
two years, and then I realized the degree of mediocrity
I had achieved. What you were more like your mother
than your father. You're more actor than a musician. No, no,
I was a terrible actor. But I thought, this is hopeless.
I could see my whole future before me, and it
was utterly mediocre musically. Musically, I said, you'll be a band. Oh.
(04:45):
In high school, I was playing rock and roll, which
is part of the problem. When I went to study
serious music, I had spent too much time, uh playing
sock hops and bar Mitzvah's Um so yeah, rock and
roll was my was my demise. But um no, I
just I could see that I wasn't. I started too late,
(05:06):
and I didn't have the discipline. And I thought, well,
what's did someone tell you you were talented as an actor?
When I started doing plays in the theater department, all
my musician friends would say, I saw you in the play.
You should that's really good. You should do more of that.
And when I would play the piano for my theater friends,
they say, you really good. You should really stick with that.
(05:27):
So I actually had to decide myself. And and they're
from very humble beginnings, you know. I started doing small
parts and worked my way up. Uh in the theater.
What was theater and film in your childhood? Meaning were you,
you know, writing poetry and you were very sophisticated when
you were young, or were you watching mcchale's Navy like
the rest of us on TV? The latter I'd say, yeah, No,
(05:52):
I wasn't. I went to movies. I did not go
to the theater much until I was in it. Huh.
Really in college a lot of theater, but um, it
was movies. I always wanted to I remember, not always,
but maybe towards the end of my high school thinking, yeah,
I'd like to do that. That looks Did you really
think that he wanted to do because you know, this
(06:17):
was in the sixties when being cool was everything. You know,
he had to be like Paul Newman in hud He
had to be cool and heartless, and and I had
massed heartless, heartless? Did you see hud I saw, yeah, heartless?
Roll down the windowhood? Where was it melt? Melvin Douglas?
(06:37):
Melvin Douglass? But he was an idol. But anyway, I
was so cool, and I thought I could never be
an actor because I I feel nothing. I remember my
first acting class at at at Juilliard. I mean, I
had taken some acting classes in college. But I remember you.
(06:58):
Did you ever do those emotional re holes? Of course?
And I want you to recreate a time when you
were really, really angry, and I said, I've never been angry.
I've never been angry. That's the first year. You're gonna
have to give me a minute here the fact angry? Now? Now?
(07:21):
Did you? But but how did you go? I mean
because obviously people as to this day think of Juilliard
is this great temple of arts education. And when you
how do you go from Indiana and you're not sure
you're an actor? How the hell did you get into Juilliard?
I asked myself the same question, because a career a
huge accident. Is it like it's pretty much? But no,
(07:44):
it is. I think I think chance comes into it
quite a bit and being at the right place at
the right time, because I joined Juilliard in the third
year of the four year program. That year they decided,
we need so we have thrown so many students out
and so many have left in desperation. Did we now
have like twelve actors left out of the original thirty five.
(08:08):
We need to fill out the class. So they brought
in David Ogden Styres and me and Mary Joan Negro
to fill it in. And they brought me in because
they and they told me that we need a leading
man because we have all these character actors. And then
they gave me character parts really because that was the
(08:30):
whole the part of the training was to be the
complete actor and to play character roles. And were you
frightened when you were there? Did it scare you at all?
Was it intimidating? Yes? And yes and no. I I
had sort of. I've done it for two years. Well
I did while I was in music school. That was
part of the problem. But I did it heavily my
(08:53):
last two years of college and was actually part of
a group that we formed our own company off campus
and had our own theater and it's night and day.
I was always I was doing a play in the
main stage at the University Theater and also working at
the in this little coffeehouse theater, doing satirical political reviews
(09:14):
every week and improv. And we had a playwright and
we started doing his plays. Um and so I had confidence.
I didn't didn't really deserve it. You didn't come from nowhere.
I mean when you got to Juliard, you've done some theater. Yeah,
and so and so were you in Juilliard? What do
you I mean, this is a kind of a you know,
(09:34):
a lazy question, but what what did you take away
from that? What are your memories of what it did
for you? What did it do for you? Well, it
certainly polished me. I mean you asked me what my St.
Louis accident was. St. Louis has a kind of lateral.
You know, those are fantastic pants you're wearing, man um
(09:57):
now with those are fantastic pants. Those official the trousers
and other pants. You learn not only how to pronounce
the words correctly, but what are the correct It was
a brilliant trousers, It's wonderful, but they but the verse,
how to how to parse verse and break a breakdown
(10:20):
of Shakespeare scene before it breaks you down, and and
a lot of movement. I was very very very tight.
I was an athlete in high school. UM, and I could,
you know, catch balls and things like that, but I
couldn't when I was acting. I was very stiff all
through college. And I was said, you know, I said,
(10:41):
I don't know what to do with my hands. You
know all that you know? Um and Juilliard suddenly they said,
we're now come first thing in the morning with leotard
and tights. Oh no, no, I I don't do leotards
and tights. I don't know what sort of modern dances,
kind of movement with an a Socolo who was a
(11:01):
student of Martha Graham's brilliant UM choreographer. And I'm an
amazing teacher. UM. And so anyway, the short answer is, Um,
I learned to loosen up physically and disinhibited, become more
disinhibited physically. And now people people say, you really move
(11:25):
your hands a lot like a European actor. Um. But anyway,
that's beside the point. But but but but it loosened me up,
and it polished my speech, and it made me appreciate Um,
Shakespeare much more. And listen any great conservatory, whether it's
music or drama or dance. It gives you a protected
(11:50):
place to practice your craft. And protected. When I say protected,
I mean it's never more competitive. Once you get out
as it was then and get up in front of
the class to do a scene is much scarier than
an opening night on Broadway. Uh, but um, it is
protected and you get to you learn by doing it.
(12:12):
Is for how many people here clap if you're studying
acting now or you had studied acting to the few
people when you were there? Did you? Uh? Was it
very production oriented? Did you do shows? Is? When I
went to n y U for the Little for the
brief time I was there, like a year and a half,
it was the opposite. They were like, you know, you
are nothing and you don't get the show to the
(12:36):
Foy and you are nothing, lay on the floor and
just breathe for three years, practice breathing. You know, not
very production But was it? Juilliard is exactly the same.
But I missed those first two years they missed the
lion on the floor here by by no by going
(12:57):
into the third year, it became really production oriented. Costumes,
makeup sets, Yeah, the whole plate. You were assigned a
role and you did it. I missed those days. Um
but um yeah, before then you did something in a
studio with maybe a prop, but it was just about acting,
(13:18):
pure acting. And I missed all that. And when you
got out of there, what was the gap between that
and doing the soap opera? You left Juilliard and you
were on the soap opera? How long? Three or four years? Oh? God, no, no,
no no. I was in the I was in the
acting company for four years, which was a company. I
was in the first graduating class of Julliard. John Houseman said,
I just can't bear the idea, with all this training
(13:39):
that we've given you, that you're gonna go off all
of you are going to go out and do soap
operas or sitcoms or movies, credit card commercial credit card commercials, podcasts,
so whatever. Um so, I'm going to form you into
a company. And he formed us into the actor We
(14:01):
were handed equity cars and put on a bus and
we went and did the four plays that we had
done in rep in our senior year and towards the country.
I did that for four years, during which John Houseman
won an oscar for the paper Chase and then started
doing sitcoms and commercials and all the things he forbad
(14:24):
us to do. So anyway, and so I got out
of the I forced myself out of the acting company
that I've got to face reality and learn how to
really wait tables, you know, and do what actors do,
and pay my dues tables I never did. UM. It
was such a rare and wonderful gift to have here.
(14:48):
What what it used to be in the days of
Olivier and Gilgood and those guys. You'd finished drama school
and you'd go off to a rep company to Birmingham
or wherever, and you would learn, you would do rep.
You would do a lot of plays. And that's what
we did. UM and I did four years of UH play.
We do a little season in New York and spend
(15:09):
the rest of the year touring and UH. There's just
no experience like it. You just really learn stuff, whether
you whether you like it or not. But I finally
had to leave that sort of take on the responsibility
of a proper career outside the acting company. So UM,
(15:32):
I did nothing for nine months. I was starving. UM.
I was doing awful Broadway UM and they would pay
me subway fair. You know this, they pay for my subway. Um,
but in those days, you would invite an agent to
come and see you in your showcase production. That that's
(15:59):
why I would showcase. Then damn Street, I can't evenmber.
I don't think the street had a name where I was,
but I did. I did a bunch of I got
a job standing by for Raoul Julia and Free Penny Opera,
which was fantastic because I got I got to I
had to watch the watch it every night. It was
(16:19):
a wonderful production, directed by Richard Foreman, and I loved
Raoul anyway. He never got sick, I never went on.
But um, my point is that I also, having sworn
never do a commercial or a soap opera, I got
(16:41):
a part in a soap opera, Search for Tomorrow, Search
for Tomorrow, and you played? I played, Would you read?
And I owned a modeling agency for only the most
ulterior of motives, surrounded by beautiful and they needed your guidance,
(17:02):
so I took them under my wing, as it were
Haines's character. But I remember saying the first I say, please,
can we come up with another name? Because I have
to say my name, and to say, would you read
it's going to come out ready wood or woodwind, flatulent
(17:23):
or what what do you read? It's just as hideous name. No,
that's your name. Okay. So I did that for one
year and it was great because I worked out once
a week and I could continue doing my off of
Broadways and standing by for Raoule and that kind of thing.
And then I got a part in a musical and
the rest is History, and the rest is history, which
(17:47):
a hecked m well yeah, and a bunch of people.
It was a musical based on a play that you
did magnificently. I closed the Iron Door on I Closed
the Iron Door and John Barramore did played this character
on film with Carol Lombard. It was called twentieth Century,
A brilliant film, Thank you and um. This was a
(18:11):
musical version that help Prince directed. Comden and Green wrote
the book and lyrics like Coleman wrote the music, and
Madeline con and John Column I did a little little
nothing in the play that the Oscar and uh and
Lily Garland. Lily Garland, Uh, they are in the musical
more featured than her young Lotharia and in the musical,
(18:33):
it's different. In the musical, your part is a big
the part you played the young boyfriend, and that was
a huge part of the music. No, it wasn't. It
wasn't it became a huge part. Do tell well it
was a nothing part that I a friend of mine
who turned down. My agent told me to turn it down.
I turned it down. But when I was delivering the
(18:55):
script back, Joanna Merlin, who was helped Princess was wonderful
actress and a brilliant casting director, said, oh, are you
sure you don't want to do this, because it's you know,
it would be a great You'd be part of the family,
and the part could grow in rehearsals. You know, you
never know. Well, okay, I'll try it, and uh And
I did it and the part did grow, and thanks
(19:15):
to Madeline Cohn, who another action went He said, um,
the guy who's doing all the stick and bouncing off
the walls and doing all this stuff that's not written,
could you fire him please? She didn't. In fact, she said,
let's develop this, and we developed all this stuff and
then we took the show out of town on thes like.
Coleman wrote a song for me to do a duet.
(19:36):
It grew and grew and grew, and I won a
Tony award. Um, no, no, And it was who was
Oscar and that John call Um? Come on, come on,
come on, come brilliant? Yeah, And you did that for
(19:57):
how long? One year? One year? And right for the
I won the Tony. I left. I said, are you crazy?
You just want to Tony? How can you leave? I said, well,
is this a great part of this wonderful Michael Weller
play they're doing down at the Arena stage in Washington waiting.
You're leaving New York to go to and to go
to Loose Ends. It was a play called Loose Ends. Um,
(20:19):
and I love the play and Alan Schneider directed it,
and then it moved to Broadway and I did it
for nine months. But um, I was told I was
crazy to do that. But does that become a guiding
principle for you that you want to go do what
you want to do that excites you, and you know,
after you win the Tony, it's like we're done. Yeah. Either,
I'd say it's a combination of doing what I want
(20:40):
and being talked into things, Um, I don't want it,
but then making the most of them. Have you ever
been talked to I can pour and talk at the
same time. Have you ever been talked into things? Many things? Yeah,
(21:00):
something you were talked into well where people would say, oh, no,
you've got to do that, You've got to it's only
four weeks. And like Pirates Appenzance, I had done. I've
done this very physical comedy in on the twentieth Century,
and then I went off into this serious Michael Weller
(21:23):
played for a year and then oh that was offered
this silly Gilbert and Sullivan. I wasn't a huge Gilbert
and Soul and Sullivan fan. And I was riding through
the park on my girlfriend then girlfriend's bicycle and it
was a beautiful day and four weeks in the park.
What you know, how bad can it be? Um? And
(21:44):
um I was. So I was riding my bike to
my agents in order to turn it down. Um. The
party had originally been offered to Raoul Julia and Raoul
had to leave to go to Francis Coppola's Zootrope. Come.
But he had a rep company and when you've had that,
we first started the Zoo Trope and he had this
(22:06):
literally repertory company. So Raoul had to bow out, so
suddenly the part was open and anyway, I said, okay,
I'll do it four weeks with the hell and then
it moved to Broadway for a year, and then we
made a movie of it and did you win another Tony?
Oh yeah. But it was a combination of it being
(22:30):
a beautiful day and my agents ayn't come on, it's
four weeks, Well why not? It won't won't kill you.
At the beginning of a relationship with Joe, yes, well,
I admit him because I carried his spear one summer
before I ever started Juilliard. Um, it came came up
early before September and got a job carrying a spear
(22:51):
and other items and actors carried Charles Derning once with
seven other guys. M on a beer anyway, several beers.
Any case, Um, long story short, it's too late for that. Um,
never mind what Joe Joe? Yeah, I met him, but
(23:15):
I and then I met him. I met him when
I was standing by for Rold Julia. I met him,
but then when I did Pirates, then I met him
and he kept saying nice to meet you, and I
was like, you know, I didn't want to tell him
that I had met it. Sure, but yeah, that's when
I started. That was when he really met you and
really I know you. Yeah, Oh, Joe Pap Joe Pap
(23:36):
and describe what he was like when he first worked
with him. Well, uh, I love Joe. I missed him
every day. He became a mentor and a kind of
strict but loving father guide mentor um, and I'm very
(24:00):
He came to the dress rehearsal and Wilfred Leach, the durgor, said,
now Joe is probably gonna give you all notes. Be
sure to ignore them. And uh, and Joe said to
me after the brother he said, you know, uh, the pirates,
these are all gentlemen, their peers of the realm, you know,
so it's all. They're very sophisticate, there's not They're not goofballs,
(24:21):
you know. I went, That's that's all I'm doing is
goofball you know. Um, that's all I got. So I went.
I went to the director and to Grazilla Danielle de Carrever.
I said, Joe says that the should be gentlemanly and dignified.
They said, I told you not to listen to Joe
because Joe he was right, um, but we had sort
(24:47):
of gone another direction. Joe was Joe was great. The
one thing that sometimes the notes you had to take.
But but you know, any actor who's had enough experience
knows to take any note from your director, from your
best friend, from your wife, from your fellow actor, take
it all with a grain of salt. I remember John
(25:09):
Travolta called when they announced we're gonna make a movie
of Pirates. Depend sense John Travolta apparently I heard called
Joe and said I want to play the pirate king.
And Joe said, we have our pirate king. That was Joe.
Joe was utterly loyal and um and demanded loyalty and
got it. And I would whether it was whatever, whatever
(25:32):
play opening night, you'd come back and say, you say, okay,
so next next year, what's it going to be? What
are you ready to do Richard to or Hamlet or
what do you want to do next? And he sort
of exact a commitment and I needed that. And how
soon after you do Pirates do you go to make
(25:52):
your first films right after that? Right? Yes, it was
right during Pirates of Penzance we were still running it
on Broadway and Alan Pacola offered me the part in
Sophie's Choice, and and and he said it was something
(26:16):
he saw in Pirates of Penzance that made him want
to cast me. And I wasn't about to talk him
out of it, but I thought, what an imagination. And
he was all, I couldn't have had a better first
director for a movie. He totally indulged the actors. It
was all, oh, yeah, the actors. We came on the
(26:37):
set first thing in the morning. There's no crew, there's
no shot that's been designed. It's like, what do you
want to do? Shows where it shows? Show me where
you want to go. And then he'd bring Nestor Elmendro
is one of the great cinematographers, and the rest of
the coup. Okay, watch this, and then we do what
we wanted. Did you know Merril before the No, you've
met her on that time? No, I met her once. Uh.
(27:01):
She came back to stage after Pirates of Penzance. In fact,
I think that's right, bet her. And did you I mean,
you've done the soap, You've done no TV, other TV,
you'd only done the soap and uh, and so when
you're on the set a coola Nestor Admiral been making
a lot of films by then. She's just done The
French Woman and Cramer Versus Creamer, a couple of others,
(27:24):
but she's that was her first, big, big, her most
recent in Manhattan. Yeah. Yeah, And so when you do
this film, do you like, are you sitting there saying
to yourself, I wanna I'm gonna learn how to act
differently in front of a camera. I remember Gracila Danielle,
the choreographer for Pirates, because when we were as I
(27:45):
said that the show was still going on Pirates, she said,
you know, you can't do that, all that face stuff
you do on film. You can't make those faces, okay.
And other people have said, you know, it's film. Acting
is completely different from age. Acting is say oh no, oh, dear, well, okay,
I'll just give it a shot. Um. But I learned
(28:08):
after a while that acting is acting. The audience is
much closer on film, and in fact, you can do more,
uh in some ways on film that you can't do
in the in the theater because the first row wouldn't
even hear you. Um but um, but it wasn't adjustment
(28:28):
fear ye, well because but I'm saying this to be
just flattering. I mean, you are someone who's done both
at the highest level. You've given great, great performances in
films and you've given great, great performances in the theater.
But was it tough for you? Was it difficult fear? No? No,
I didn't know. No, I mean it was scary because
(28:49):
I thought, what if everything I've learned in the last
whatever ten years of acting professionally on stage, if it's
not applicable itself as a whole new skill set and
I have to learn, it's going to be pretty daunting.
But no, it was. And Pecula said, think of filmmaking
as rehearsal, where you try at a bunch of different
(29:09):
times and then I'm going to pick the best one.
But that's what rehearsing is. And each day you work
on a scene or two of the play in the film,
you shoot a scene or two of of the thing,
and you work on it and do it a few times,
and you trust the director. And also he invited me
to dailies. Did you find that helpful? Totally? And I
(29:31):
am always taken aback when certain insecure directors don't want
the actors to come to dailies because the first day
I went, I saw, oh, the first of all, the
way I was being lit was brilliant. Um, I mean
that's the character, I thought. And then I would go
to Pocula and I'd say, okay, the it was the
(29:52):
the first take of the first take, the for the
beginning was good, and then right in the middle it
was like taking why did you say that take three?
Right for for for the middle part and the ending
I thought worked best in take four, and he said,
I totally agree. And then I knew that we were
on the same page as it were, and the what
(30:15):
I was seeing and what he was seeing, that we
were all in sync, that we were it was great. Actually,
Meryl was a tremendous help. She remember once I was
making a huge meal out of just me doing had
to give Stingo, the character's name. I had to give
him some money because he had been robbed, and I
(30:36):
was doing, you know, you're a writer, you need this
money in Biliba and I was just emoting, and she said,
just just give him money and just or you can
just say it, you know, just say it. You don't
have to and and so yeah, probably, I guess I
(30:58):
was doing too much. I know, I certainly was, but
but I was helped by Pecula and U and Meryl.
And what a great thing to have your first movie
with a great director like Pecola. God, he was so
such a spoiler. Who were some of the other directors
even in the theater that helped you well. Jerry Friedman
directed my class in school for Scandal when we were
(31:20):
still at Juilliard, and then we went into our repertory,
and then years later he directed to Live Danner and
me in What You Do About Nothing in the Park.
He was a wonderful director. Um and uh, I learned
he was the first one like Pecula. Pecula did the
same thing in terms of empowering the actor. Pecola would
(31:43):
say to me, look, whatever we've talked about in this scene,
what we think it's about, or what you know, what
could happen if you get a different impulse during that scene.
Forget what I said, forge at what we plan. You
follow your impulses. The character was this psychopath and had
(32:06):
to be unpredictable, and he wanted it to be as
spontaneous as possible. And then again I was blessed with Meryl,
who Meryl's. Meryl said don't don't. Don't be afraid you're
gonna hurt me, because a lot of it was very physical.
She said, you can't, which I took us a challenge,
of course, but she was right. And and Picola said
(32:27):
do what you want. And the same way Jerry Friedman
on in the theater was the first director to say, Okay,
we're just gonna sit around the table and read it,
and when you feel like moving, get up and move.
And pretty soon the tables are cleared away and we're
moving around, and we're moving when we want to move.
We're not waiting for the director to say you can
now walk over there, now, put your hand in your pocket,
(32:50):
now say it this way. Now, that's what And he
was the and it was that empowerments like you decide
what does this mean to you? What? What? How do
you want to do this? And that that was the
that was the key to for me, both on stage
and film, and those directors, the directors I love. Larry
(33:12):
Kastin is the same way Larry's how many movies have
you made with Casson? Why what about him? He lets
you contribute, He doesn't tell you what to do. He
wants to see what you're gonna do, and he'll guide
you back to the road if you've strayed too far
afield and make a suggestion. But he loves actors. Peter
(33:33):
Bogdanovitch told me a story about was it Howard Hawks
or John Ford who directed Big River? Whoever did john
Wayne was saying, Hey, this guy in Montgomery, Cliff, this
new kid, he's got these big emotional scenes and I
I've only got a you know, a couple of lines here,
and I need I need some other big scenes. And
(33:54):
he said, Duke, you need three good moments in the film.
The rest of the time you just try not to
annoy the audience. Kevin Klein has nailed that advice. Coming up,
how we almost missed his surprise oscar Win and why
(34:15):
his mom wasn't going to let that happen. Explore the
here's the thing archives. I speak with Julianne Moore, who
also spent some of her early years working on a
soap opera. I used to do what they called emotional applicate,
where if I had to say something that was really
just plot oriented, I try to like cry on top
(34:37):
of it or laugh on top of it. Or anything,
just to make it mean something. Take a listen that
here's the thing, dot Org. This is Alec Baldwin and
(34:58):
you're listening to hear is the thing. A few big
name actors managed to avoid Hollywood typecasting, but my guest today,
Kevin Klein has that rare power to reinvent himself and
delight audiences in the process. Compare his early role in
Sophie's Choice with a later one like a fish cold Wanda.
(35:21):
You know, once you start making movies or become a
big star on Broadway or whatever it is, and you're
offered things, you don't have to audition anymore, it's a
terrible burden. Well it's it's it's a great, great it
really is. No. But in in drama school, you're you're
(35:41):
assigned or in the old meal days of the early
days of movies, you were assigned a role. You're gonna
play Red Butler and gone into it. Well all right, um,
you know, and you just did it and did what
you were told. But now you want to do this,
so you want to do that, You want to do this,
you want to do that. Uh, I don't know. You
have to choose your you know, and you have to
(36:04):
have people that can counsel you, was going to advise you.
What's the movie like? Did you start to get excited
about being in movies? And oh, god, I'm so excited.
What's the one that you just said? God, I'm so
excited I'm doing this movie Sophie's Choice. Yeah, it was
my first one. It was like insane. I was like,
I can't believe this is unbelievable. I didn't I didn't
(36:25):
have to start being the pizza delivery guy with one
line and work my way up. I just was hit
the ground running. I mean, I've been toiling desperately in
the theater for ten years. And God rest his soul,
and God love him, wanted an unknown. He didn't want
any baggage. You wanted someone that you couldn't predict what
(36:48):
they were going to do. And that's me. No one
knows who the hell I am. What What do you
think people hire you for. It's very tricky that sometimes
you you you you become suspicious that it's for the
wrong reasons. Because now the way the movie business works,
(37:08):
a lot of times they would like can we use
your name? Will you attach yourself to this movie? In
the old days, like the movies green Lit, it's happening,
you're offered a part. Yes, no, okay, Now it's will
you attach yourself to this movie? And then if we
get another a few people to attach themselves and they
(37:28):
have a certain amount of guaranteed box office revenue in
foreign sales, blah blah blah, we will be able to
raise the money to make this movie. Okay. So a
lot of times I think, well, they obviously just need
some they just name for that. I'm not right for
this part. They don't like my work, they hate me,
(37:48):
they don't care about me, they don't love me. But
it's like that with those you're in meetings now because
the business is completely overtaken now by non creative people.
They don't have any back on as writers or you
know whatever, as producers. So everything is about gaming at me.
I mean, the joke in Hollywood is you're having a
meeting with him about, you know, the biography of Thomas Jefferson,
(38:11):
and they said, who's gonna play Sally Hemmings And they're like, well,
Sandra Bullick is gonna play how Sally Hemmings? I who
else could they be? They complain, you know, I I mean
it's so it's so cynical that way. When um, when
I did the movie, Dave uh, I love that movie,
(38:38):
me too. I love that movie, and I of course
I turned it down first, but I was I was
talked into it, and I'm glad I was. But Ivan
Rightman told me, said, the studio is pressuring me to
use Arnold Schwarzenegger. And I tried to explain to them
that if you're Austrian, you cannot be President of the West.
(39:03):
Of course, the irony is years later he became governor
of California and probably could have run for president and
may still who knows, But he just thought it was
he had to kind of force me on the studio.
And I'm glad he did. Now a movie, so I'm sorry.
It's actually it's actually a fish cold wander, right, because
(39:24):
the British, the British British, you shout out when you're
expressing love and admiration. For Mr knew exactly a fish
cold Wanda, which to an American here sounds like, well,
how did the fish know how to use a telephone?
Why would they you know? But that's the British, you
(39:46):
know locution. Anyway, A fish cold Wanda. That part was
written for me by John Clees. He wrote it. Have
you known him before him? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I knew him. Um.
(40:07):
We had met many times over the years and we'd
always have dinner and we're talking. And then he did
a little part in Silverado and we actually shared a
house for a couple of weeks that he worked, and
it was there when he told me he said, I'm
thinking of a film, an idea, and I'll and he
he actually told me he said, I've you know, a
(40:27):
year or so later when he wrote the first draft,
and he said, I've written something for you where you
were the most evil person in the world and you
were run over by a steamroller and you eat Michael
Palin's Tropical Fish also sounds great. Um, let's do it, um,
(40:50):
and never thinking it would ever get made or anything,
and you want an Oscar for that film? I did
you have an idea that you were going to win?
Pardon me? Did you think you were going to win? Oh? God, no,
you didn't. Not for a moment. I was actually rehearsing
I Love You to Death in l A at the time. Yeah,
(41:17):
that's the problem. You see a smattering um, not that
big a hit, but a wonderful movie. And I was
working on my Italian accent for the role and UM,
and the Oscars were coming up, and I was just
very ensconced in that, trying to master an Italian accent.
(41:38):
And then I said, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna.
I'm just gonna stay home and work on my accent
because we start shooting in four days whatever. I'm not
going to go to the Oscars. Everyone tells me I'm
not gonna win, apparently people who were following the odds
makers or whatever. I said, you're not even a dark horse.
You're not like oh and chemic cut never mind and um.
And I'm rehearsing with River Phoenix, who's nominated also for
(42:02):
UM Running on Empty. We're in the same category. And
he's so sick. He was so sweet. I hope you win.
I hope you win. You're so great in this movie.
But anyway, so I'm nominated. I call my home and
my mother says, we're all gathered around the TV tomorrow
night to watch. And I said, Mom, I'm I'm not going.
I got I got a lot of work to do.
I'm doing this and I'm not gonna win, and I don't.
(42:25):
I just it's a long evening, so I'm not gonna go.
She said, who do you think you are? You'll go
get right out there. You do exactly, and he went,
I'm not tupsy. Though that was like okay, okay, okay,
(42:47):
I'll go. Um and then went, I won. I really
I had. I was stunned when they said your name,
I was stunn went I was sorry. It's a strange thing.
Is a strange thing. I remember. I was presented the
(43:08):
award by Sean Connery, Michael Caine and um, there were
three Brits and Roger Moore and they were they were
all They're presenting and doing Britt Britt jokes, you know.
And then they said and the winner is Kevin and
then they kind of ushered me off stage, and I
just said the F word about twenty times, and I thought,
(43:31):
why am I cursing? This is like a I couldn't
believe it be it was. There was no contempt on camera, no, no, no,
you know, as they but I thought they must like
I'm completely insane, and I just kept saying it just
was a catch all word that covered a myriad of
(43:54):
emotions from contempt to Disgraced and Rome as what's your head?
I was like, yeah, a scream out fun. I didn't
know what it meant, and then I learned later on
it meant nothing except that people Oscar and Kevin Klein
(44:15):
um and that that was it. But but it didn't change.
Oh didn't you change your career? No? I was didn't.
Were you too offered more comedy rules? Yes? But I
was being offered more comedy rules because I did a
fish called Wanda, not because I want an Oscar for it?
What what? What did you go shoot right after that?
What movies did you make? Right of the one that
(44:36):
I'd rather not discuss? Uh? But then I did? I
Love You to Death? And the one you read discuss
because you just didn't like making the movie wasn't fun.
It was called The January Man it was it wasn't not. Yeah,
it wasn't fun because I thought it was a comedy
and they I don't think the director did. And I
didn't realize that until halfway through. No, it was a John.
(45:01):
So everyone's in an operating movement. You're going, yeah, what
are you doing? Oh I'm a doctor. But but any way,
you it was a John Patrick Shamley script, and Shamley
is ironic, and you know, funny, everything's and funny. So
I saw the whole thing as a satire. And the
director we talked about it before doing it, and I thought,
(45:24):
he but it is it didn't it didn't want you
to do after that, I Love you to death, yea,
which was the most fun maybe I've ever had. Oh
my god, it was brilliantly funny script based on the
true story of a guy who's white. He didn't see it,
and I've seen love definitely. Who directed the film, Lawrence,
(45:47):
has have you ever written any films or written any scripts? No?
I rewrite. I do know, because we were talking earlier
about both of us having worked on a soap opera
that someone told me about about the second week, said,
you don't have to say the lines that are written.
You can rewrite any of this. No one cares, okay,
(46:10):
And I started to learn I would because these lines
were unutterably, inutterable, awful, horrible. So I did a lot
of rewriting. I learned a lot about rewriting and now,
and I'm sure you feel the same way, not only
with comedies, but and it started with Sophie's choice. Meryl said,
(46:32):
are you saying the lines has written? And I said, yeah,
just you don't have to if it doesn't fit in
your mouth, you know, and if it's you can. She
saw me worrying about saying the line right, you know,
and getting into the word perfect. And I was used
to four or five weeks of rehearsal. We had three
(46:52):
weeks of rehearsal for Sophie's choice. But Meryl didn't want
to rehearse we want She wanted to, well, let's just talk,
let's have it happen while the camera's running. Well that's interesting.
But I didn't have that repetition that you get in rehearsals,
so the lines. So she saw that I was struggling
to just say, you know what you're saying. You can
sprint in your own words. One of my favorite films
(47:14):
of yours, I mean one of them, I mean there's
a few, one of my favorite films. It was is
In and Out, I Love, I Love not Move. Thank you.
Was that a good experience for you? Was that a
good experience for you? Yeah, it was a great experience.
He was, yeah, great fun. And I mean Frank Ozz
was terrific as a director, and Joan Cusack surprised. Yeah,
(47:39):
just amazing. Everyone and Tom Selick, everyone was a delight.
It was. It was most fun and and except for
rare occasions, Frank ozz was that kind of my favorite
kind of director, like show me what you want to
do here he let us do your thing. Oh we
(48:00):
am I mistaken? I don't think we mistaken? Are we
going to take some questions? Here? Is that right? Do
we do we have Mike? Do we have Mike's repet?
Which one year? What's coming up? In your hand? If
you have a question, who said what's coming up next? Okay,
that's my stand un please, and you want to know
for what's coming up next? For Kevin? Here we go, Kevin,
what's coming up next? Did I say that right? Um? Nothing,
(48:35):
I don't know. I don't know. I'm I'll be reading
a script on the car home and my agent wants
me to call right after I finish it because they're
offering me a huge pay day. Another question for Kevin,
Thank you very much, Sat, thank you. Another question for
Kevin Martory? How you no? And I remember I had
(49:14):
a friend, a producer friend said, oh, you're gonna do
a movie with John Clees and Michael Palin. From the
part I mean that that's very British humor. It's not
the same as our humor. And I said, I don't care.
I mean, first of all, I don't I don't believe
in I think humor is humor. What's funny is universally
funny if it's human um And I adored Monty Python
(49:39):
for me the opportunity to work with Michael Palin and
John Clees. I don't care if anyone sees it or
any or if it sucks. I wanna. I want that experience.
There was no question about doing it. I didn't know
it was going to be a big hit. I didn't
know while making it it was going to be a
(50:01):
hit of any kind at All I knew was it
was great fun to do. And my favorite day I
think on this was one day when I was I
got to direct John and Michael in a scene. I
wasn't even in the scene, but by directing, all I
did was remember in rehearsals you did this. It was
much slower and it was much more excruciating when you're
(50:21):
trying to get him to say cath Kart Towers and
I think you're rushing, but if you slow down and
and he did, and it it's in the movie. And
I directed John Please and Michael Palin in comedy acting
(50:41):
that was fun. Um uh. I wanted to say, um.
I wanted to say a couple of quick things because
we're out of time, and that is thank you to
Kevin for making the time. But I'm under the impression
you don't do a lot of this and U um no.
(51:03):
But I mean, like a lot of press, I don't.
I hate I hate interviews. I don't like them at all.
And and but I want to say that, you know,
in my lifetime, it's it's always the same thing comes
back to me. And as that the people I've observed
that I admire and you are, you know, surely one
of the most admired actors in my lifetime in this business.
(51:25):
And I want to say, but I want to say that,
um that the people who are great like you can't
be great, You just can't. You can be good if
you have two of these. You can't be great if
you have one of these. But if you have two
of these traits, you can be good. But you can't
be great. But you can really be great if you
(51:48):
have all three of these traits for men, and that
is masculinity, intelligence, and sensitivity, and you exhibit all those
things in all the films that you've made, and you're
really great. They're really a pleasure to watch your career.
What was the middle thing? What was the middle thing?
What was the middle thing? Yeah, it was intelligence. What
(52:08):
I'm going to emasculated intelligence, sensitive, sensitivity. Ken. Thank you
so much, Alec, Thank you all very much. Kevin Klein.
(52:33):
We want more of you. Here's hoping that script you
read in the car will give us that opportunity. Thanks
to everyone at the Two River Theater in Red Bank,
New Jersey, from making this possible. This is Alec Baldwin
and you're listening to here's the thing two
Host
Alec Baldwin
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