April 22, 2024 • 42 mins
When Katherine Woodward Thomas wrote Calling in The One in the early 2000s, she had no idea how strongly it would resonate with women today. The therapist and author joined The Bright Side to talk about how to attract the love of your life, and why her book is having a resurgence two decades after it was first released. Plus, we chat about Earth Day, Taylor Swift’s The Tortured Poets Department, and a recent study that says America is not as divided as we think.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, besties, Hello sunshine.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Today on the bright Side, we're calling in the one
with licensed marriage and family therapist Catherine Woodward Thomas.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
She quite literally wrote the book on finding the love
of your life in seven weeks or less. So now
twenty years later, her book is popping up everywhere, and
she's here to talk through how it works and why
it's still making waves. It's Monday, April twenty second. Happy
Earth Day, everybody. I'm Danielle Robe and I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Simone Voice, and this is the bright Side from Hello Sunshine, Danielle.
It's Earth Day, and this day reminds me of one
formative core memory from childhood. Tell me, and that is
eating those pudding cups with the cookie crumble on top
and the gummy worm in it.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I don't know what that is.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
You never had that, No. I used to have it
in like elementary school on Earth Day because it looked
like an earthworm. That symbolized our connection to nature.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
That's so sweet. Every Earth Day, my mom used to
grab garbage bags and gloves and we used to go
walk around the town that we lived in and pick
up garbage. And I think because of that memory, I
always say the only people that I don't like in
the world are litterers.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I agree with you, not a big fan of litterers.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Everybody else I love and accept and value, but litterers
I cannot do. Obviously, Earth Day is incredibly meaningful. But
one of the fun things I think you can do
is think about the five best things you've ever seen
on Earth.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I like that, what would be one of yours.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
I saw two turtles making a baby one time, and
that blew my mind.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
So turtle sex.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
No, no, not that it's not like miraculous, but I
mean animals are cool. Shooting stars are pretty amazing. I
saw the Grand Canyon that really was awe inducing. How
about you?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I think the quand see waterfall in Laos. It looks otherworldly,
looks like it's it's literally made by fairies, or fairies
could be like flying above it. It's just gorgeous. The way
the water cascades through these rocks. That was definitely up
there for me.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
That's super cool. What'd you do this weekend?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I took my kids to meet Blippy. I have a
four year old and a two year old pee. Blippy
is a preschool YouTube personality. Okay, yeah, very educational kind
of like this generation's Mister Rogers meets Pee Wee Herman
something like that. So we took them to go meet
him at a little like educational event.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
I had a very different weekend.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I can only imagine. I didn't see you at the
Blippy event. It was weird. I was looking for you
and you weren't there.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I went to a birthday party on Saturday night that
started at ten pm. I haven't been out that late
and so like, I can't even believe that you can
call a birthday party for ten pm. But the dress
code was kind of tree chic, so I wore like
an all dnim outfit circa Britney Spears justin Timberlake. Their
like full dena moment nice. I love costume parties, but
(03:09):
they also stress me out because I never have time
to go and get an outfit right before the party.
So I try and make something in my closet work,
and it's never quite as great as the people who
really take time to get into it. I saw some
great outfits celebrated my friend Rachel and I actually haven't
had a drink in a really long time, and I
had one drink, just one, just one. I like to
(03:33):
wake Up Fresh. I can't handle too much well. Swifties
spent almost all weekend listening to Taylor Swift's The Tortured
Poets Department, and I see people online calling it a
breakup album. Not different from her other albums many, I mean,
some are love albums. This is a breakup album. But
(03:53):
the one thing she did differently this time that stuck
out to me was she put a bunch of positive
messages out with the out drop, and I think she's
sort of closing this chapter of her life.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, that's what I'm gathering from what she wrote on
Instagram too. She said there's nothing to avenge, no scores
to settle, once wounds have healed and upon further reflection,
this is interesting. A good number of them turned out
to be self inflicted, so she's taking accountability here. I
like this last part of what she wrote. She said,
once we have spoken our saddest story, we can be
(04:24):
free of it.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Nothing to avenge, no scores to settle. I think this
is important because historically her fans are so intense that
they go after anybody who they even think has wronged her,
Like do you remember Jake Jillen Hall or Joe Jonas
like her fans just go after people. I think this
is her way of seeing, like, don't do that. All good,
(04:47):
no hate to my exes. The only drama I've kind
of seen come from this album is a song thank
You Amy, and the k I Am in that title
is capitalized, so everybody thinks it's about Kim Kardashian and
there's some dramas around that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So she's taking ownership for her pardon everything and moving forward,
But just with the little bit of drama thrown in.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I just feel like she's saying two opposite things. She's
saying I'm taking accountability, no hate, and she's saying all's
fair in love and poetry. I'm putting it out there.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
At the end of the day, she's an entertainer and
this is all for entertainment value, and she is so
good at creating a narrative and drumming up this incredible
lore that keeps her fans engaged for decades.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Now.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
I mean, here's what I love about this moment in time,
and I loved the reaction to Beyonce's album for this
same reason. There are very few pieces of art or
culture nowadays that unite everyone and draw our attention in
the way that a Taylor Swift album drop does or
a Beyonce album drop does. I mean I feel that
way about like Game of Thrones when it was on,
(05:55):
everybody stopped what they were doing and they all watched
it and digested it together. So this is an example
of monoculture, and it feels like we don't have that
many instances of that that we can point to nowadays.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
You're right about monoculture. I think this indicates kind of
a new wave, which I like. Okay, Another thing worth
talking about is that there was a recent study published
that says America is not as divided as we think
it is. And I think we tend to think in
our country right now that we're really divided. It feels
that way if you log onto social media. But I
(06:30):
want to share some good news that I read about
on the state of our country right now, because I
think it's going to make us all feel better. A
recent poll by the Associated Press and the Nork Center
for Public Affairs Research found that despite all of the
polarization we feel in our country, we seem to agree
on what it means to be American. So nine out
of ten adults in the US believe in the right
(06:53):
to vote, the right to privacy, basically all of the
First Amendment, and they feel like these are key parts
of the American identity. I'm so tired of the polarization rhetoric.
I get happy every time I read something like this.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
We need this kind of good news right now. I mean,
I look at our society today and it just feels
so different from the environment that I grew up in
as a nineties kid. I can remember my parents having
friends that they disagreed with on just about everything in
terms of politics, but that didn't stop them from being friends.
(07:31):
And it seems like we've lost sight of that. And listen,
I know that everybody has their deal breakers and their
issues that are non negotiables. But I think this is
really encouraging, and this just reflects what I'm seeing. Whenever
we have conversations offline, whenever we have conversations that aren't
(07:52):
taking place on cable news shows, the extremes just drive
a lot of that conversation and that vitriol and that tension.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
We have become divided because we are physically divided, and
so the more togetherness we have, the less the divisiveness.
Seems like the end all be all, because you can
be around a dinner table full of people that you
disagree with and you can have a conversation face to
face that seems interesting or fine to have. When you
(08:21):
are disagreeing on the internet, people get irate, And I
think that's like a huge difference here. But I always
try to remind myself, like I'm a student of history,
and I remind myself that America has been held together
through way worse times than now. We can get through
this time. We just need a few.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
More dinners, exactly, a few more dinner parties. Dinner parties
care everything. Yeah, I love that you brought up that
example of how we've lost sight of that socialization that
we had in like the eighties and before. I'm someone
who has a very ideologically diverse group of friends, and
I don't see that all that often. But what I've
(09:01):
observed in my group of friends, where I have people
who are more on the right, people who are more
on the left, a lot of them are saying the
same things behind closed doors, and a lot of them
feel fear about expressing their true opinions and expressing how
they really feel about certain issues and I often find
(09:22):
myself thinking, Wow, I just wish I could bring these
groups together and let these conversations out and give people
a space where they feel like they could be truly honest.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah. I think our values have really been politicized in
the last few years. But I personally welcome uncomfortable conversation. Like,
I really like hearing from people that I disagree with.
It doesn't mean they're going to change my mind, but
I like hearing where they're coming from and why. There's
usually a story behind it.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Well. Also, whenever you have conversations with people that you
disagree with, it helps you understand your positions better, and
it helps you understand your own values better.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah I agree.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Okay, up next, can we really find the love of
our lives in just seven weeks? Well, we'll find out
after the break. Welcome back, everybody. I'm Simone Boyce. So
we've been seeing this book everywhere. It's called Calling in
(10:27):
the One seven weeks to attract the Love of your Life.
A friend of mine found her perfect match this way, Danielle.
Celebrities have been posting about it book clubs or reading
it together, and apparently it works for a lot of people.
Interestingly enough, this book came out two decades ago and
it's having a renaissance now.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
I have been seeing it all over today night, and
we have the creator of this renowned method with us today.
Catherine Woodward Thomas is a licensed marriage and family therapist.
She's also the best selling author of Calling in the
one seven weeks to Attract the love of your life.
And if you remember the term conscious uncoupling made popular
(11:08):
by Gwyneth Paltrow years ago, that was Catherine's phrase, Catherine,
welcome to the bright side.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Oh, it's so great to be here with you guys.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
This feels like a treat. Oh I'm about to get
a masterclass of love.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
We all are, because I know there are a lot
of applications of this method outside of just calling in
a romantic relationship. So we're going to get to that later.
But Catherine, Danielle and I have been trying to talk
to you about calling in.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
The book with me anything.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yes, we love a carte blanche interview. As I mentioned,
it's all over my timeline. People are still raving about it.
But I want to start by just breaking down what
this method is. So what is it and how does
calling in the one work?
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Okay, so most great dating advice is kind of external
to us. This is what you should wear, this is
what you should say, Wait five minutes before you answer
a text. You know, don't appear too available, you know,
all of those great little tips and helpful things. But
calling in the one is very different because it's really
(12:14):
about aligning your internal consciousness with the future that you're
committed to creating. Now, most of us, when it comes
to love, are carrying history books of disappointments, kind of
mixed messages. We remember when we were twelve and our
(12:34):
friends got bras before we did, and we remember, you know,
the dynamic between our parents or between ourselves and our
older siblings. You know, we kind of have a lot
going on about this concept of love. And basically when
we're talking about love, we're talking about who really sees me,
Who do I feel safe with, who do I feel
(12:55):
supported by? Who is there for me? Really? So it's
very core and primal. So calling in the one is
very informed by your history, and it kind of understands
the psychology of the repetition compulsion and how we all
have patterns and how we're the source of our patterns,
and we actually start in a really unlikely place, and
(13:18):
that's with the future that you're committed to creating, and
this inquiry like who would you need to be in
order to manifest the relationship you want? How will you
need to grow? What are you going to need to
let go of? And how can you actively begin to
co create that? What's your next step to co create
with the universe and manifest that miracle of love.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
I'm so glad you use the word manifest just now,
because the approach is really about manifesting that person, and
you ask readers to set a quote miraculous intention to
meet their person. So, for example, by the summer of
twenty twenty four, I will have met the love of
my life. Why is that part that futurizing important for
(14:03):
the process.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
So there's so much now happening, you know, around manifestation.
It's like the big buzzwords, right, we all want to
know what's my you know, how much agency do I
have to impact the future? And a lot of us
have kind of or we kind of grew up being
a little passive about the future. So what's waking up
in the collective is this sense of agency like, wow,
(14:28):
I really can influence what does and doesn't happen. But
I'll also tell you that research has demonstrated this. I mean,
way back in the nineteen eighties, there was research done
on the positive possible self of the future, but they
actually demonstrated that when you're living into a possible self
(14:51):
of your future consciously, because most of us do have
a possible self of the future and it's negative, it's
like more of the same. Oh, interesting, we're afraid we're
always going to be single, or no one will ever
love us, or we're going to die alone, you know,
something like that. So if you actually consciously cultivate low,
what does it feel like to be me being loved
(15:13):
and supported and happy and having overcome my past and
you know, really located my core value and my you know,
my and access to the power that I have to
grow healthy and strong. If you're living into that future,
it will begin to motivate you to show up very
(15:34):
differently in the present. So how we're showing up has
everything to do with what we're generating.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
When you say living into the future, what if you
can't envision that, Because I do believe you have to
see it.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Yes to achieve it.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yes, what if you don't know what the dream house
looks like or the dream I have no idea what
the face of my future partner looks like.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Well, you don't need to know the face, but you
do need to start to cultivate a connection with what
it might feel like to be really seen, Okay, And
it's an active imagination process, that's what the visioning processes.
And you're kind of trying on as best you can,
and you might just get slivers of what that might
(16:18):
feel like, because maybe you feel that way when your
dog comes and greets you at the end of the day.
You know, just it's unconditional love. So you do know
the experience, you know the experience from moments in your
life with maybe a child, or your mom, or your
sister or your friends. So if you are overly identified
(16:39):
with what I call the traumatized self of the past
or your wounded self, you know, the part of you
that was never good enough, the part of you that
was always put down, or the part of you that
was abused in some way. So you're still emotionally kind
of anchored and it's not really safe to open myself
up to love. So then you have to wake yourself
(17:01):
up to what else might be more true, because if
you really ask yourself, well, where is that self in
the body, and you'll you know, you can kind of
usually feel it like a heaviness on your heart or
are you going to feel it like you know, kind
of a sick feeling in your belly? And then you
say to yourself, sweetheart, how old are you? And you
recognize this is a younger part of you.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Now.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Whatever was happening back then that gave you the idea
that you weren't safe, You didn't have a lot of
resources to deal with it, you didn't have a lot
of support, and it was completely overwhelming because you couldn't
really comprehend it with any sense of complexity or sophistication.
So the ability to then speak to yourself and say,
(17:47):
you know what, honey, love is dangerous if you don't
have good boundaries, if you don't know how to actually,
you know, assert your feelings and needs in a healthy way.
But guess what, we have the power to learn those skills.
And I am the source of safety in love for
myself and for others. So that's the part that needs
(18:08):
to be in charge of love and not that younger
wound itself. O.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
I wasn't planning on doing inner child work today. I
got to be honest. I did not wake up and
see this in my day.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
For today, you emphasize the concept of calling in the
right partner rather than finding the right partner. What's the difference.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
You know, we all live in such a go get them,
make it happen kind of world. We kind of really
trust the logic of how to create something that's pretty wonderful.
If you want a PhD, you can probably research graduate
schools and figure out what tests you need to take
or what you need to do to get into that school,
(18:51):
how you're going to make the money to do it.
It's pretty laid out before you. But when you want
to create true love, it's a really different system. You
can't make true love happen. You can really only make
it welcomed and create the conditions for it and become
who you would need to be in order for that
(19:13):
future to happen. So it's almost like if you're going
to go for the Olympic gold. You can't know from
the start you're going to win the gold, but you
go all in to create the right conditions for that
possible thing to happen to you. So when we're talking about,
you know, making it happen, which is a little bit
(19:34):
of going out to find that person, you're going out
with your mental self, your list, and what your criteria is.
So you're listening to your intuition. What's my next step?
What would I need to give up? Well, probably you know,
the hope that my ex boyfriend is going to come back.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I'm glad you brought that up because you talk a
lot about letting go in order to let love in.
So what are some of the things that you're asking
your readers to let go of?
Speaker 3 (20:03):
You know, I always trust how it comes to it.
So there's this hole in the calling. In the one,
it's written as a forty nine day course, so it's
to just get a little bits and piece each day
things to do, which we all love. We love roadmaps.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Is that seven weeks?
Speaker 3 (20:18):
That's the seven weeks forty nine days? Yes, and that's
you know, and where did that come from? I mean,
I wrote the book twenty years ago. I must have
just been reading something about Siddartha or Gluddhism or something,
because that's how long Siddartha's sat under the body tree
before he became enlightened, you know, So anyway, that's where
it came from. But I think we all know what
there is to let go of. I need to let
(20:39):
go of drinking every night, or I need to let
go of dimming down to try and not be a
threat to other people and pretending to be less than
I am. I need to let go of how hard
I am on myself. I need to let go of
so for less because I don't think I'm really going
(21:03):
to do any better. I need to let go of
tolerating selfish people in my life and accommodating them and
not confronting them when they dismiss me and my needs.
I need to let go of being conflict avoidant. You know,
do you you know we kind of know this.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Is so good, This is so good.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Well, this is good for even being in relationship. How
do I actualize the potentials of that relationship? And I
do have a lot of people coming and doing calling
in the one and the future that they're committing to
is my partner and I are thriving. You know, we
are doing great. We are expanded in our love. So
(21:46):
you know you can start with that future too.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I love that. I kind of want to do this
with my husband. Does anybody ever do that?
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Yes, yes they do. And my wildest story about that
is I had a whole family of there were six
grown up children who all over the United States and
their two parents, and they met once a week and
they all did together.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Both men and women. Yes, Because one of the things
I find is that I hear women talk about this
book all the time, and I kind of wish more
men were doing it too well.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
I think just men need to be invited and know that.
It's the thing. I mean, Look, men are valued a
lot in the culture. Traditionally that's changing fast, but you know,
traditionally men have been valued for what they can make happen,
So you know that kind of hero agency to go
and you know, make it happen. But this is a
different system, and you might say it's a more feminine
(22:40):
system of creativity.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
We're going to take a quick break and we'll be
right back, Catherine Woodward Thomas. You wrote this book twenty
years ago. Yeah, it's still to this day. Is something
that people are gravitating towards. When I talk to people
(23:04):
about dating that are older than me, they're always like, well,
dating is just so different nowadays, is it really?
Speaker 3 (23:11):
To me?
Speaker 1 (23:11):
It's kind of the same. It's just we have some technology.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
You know, it is different and it is the same,
and so the technology is clearly different, but the technology
means that there's more choice. I think twenty years ago
and I wrote it, there was this kind of emerging
new paradigm back then of love between equal partners, both
people holding power in love, which if you really look
(23:37):
historically at how relationships have gone, was a very new thing.
And then you do have a lot more choices, which
has been shown to really stress people out and actually
get in the way of making a decision. So you
have to be very aware of what you like and
(23:57):
what your life is about what you're committed to. And
so the calling in the One Course, I think why
it's hitting now is because it used to be. When
the book first came out, it was kind of for
women over thirty five. It was really interesting. Women over
thirty five were finally like, oh, you know, I might
(24:18):
want to have a family. This isn't really working for me.
Let me be willing to go a bit deeper. Now
it's across the board, women and men in their twenties,
even in their teens, are more aware. And it's funny
because my first husband, who I wrote, you know, I
have the whole story about how I met him. I
(24:39):
really did calling in the one just for myself because
I was not winning in this game of love at all,
and I'd been on a ceiling transformative journey for so
many years that I said, Okay, okay, let me just
figure this one out. And I did it for myself,
and I manifest this great relationship with this wonderful man
who is now officially my husband. And so he was
(25:01):
the inspiration for this book and for conscious uncoupling. But
he was very intuitive. It was really interesting when I
was writing the book. He's kind of an intuitive person.
He meditates a lot and stuff. And he used to
always say to me, Catherine, I don't think this book
is really going to find its true home for at
least twenty years. Wow, isn't that amazing? Ha out brush
(25:21):
is Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
He knew, Catherine, You've built a career on teaching others
how to cultivate love. After your first marriage ended, how
did you pick up the pieces and how did it
change your view of love?
Speaker 3 (25:33):
You know, I think that We've all been really inside
of the happily ever after myth so much. It's such
a deep archetype in all of our psychees. I mean,
I really had this horrible pattern of unavailable people, married men,
(25:54):
engaged men, alcoholics, you know, workaholics, any size, shape form,
you know, of impossible loves. And it really was so painful,
and here I am, you know, trying to figure it out.
I ended up going to graduate school to become a therapist.
I'm so knee deep. But then I become like a
good therapist for people who are in relationship, and I'm
(26:17):
coming home to my empty apartment, you know, night after
night with my little kitty cat Clover. So that felt
really unfair. So I figured this out for myself and
manifest this wonderful miracle, had a baby at the age
of forty three, then wrote a book. It became a
national bestseller. Then I was teaching everyone. I mean, it
was such a great I mean, Disney could not have
(26:40):
done any better with this story. And then a decade
in it became clear to both of us that the
marriage needed to transition and that we weren't right for
each other anymore. And mostly it was me just having
kind of outgrown the marriage in a lot of ways.
But so at the time it was quite and I
(27:01):
really thought my career might have been over, you know.
But the truth is is that I've always been a
person who's kind of hungry for truth and hungry for contribution.
I always want to pay forward any kind of ounce
of wisdom that I get. So I had to give up, though,
you know, this idea of myself as this big teacher
(27:22):
and choose truth. But I do remember the day that
I realized this was going to happen. I actually drove
to a park and I lay down on the grass
and I just looked up to the sky and I
prayed the only prayer that made sense to me at
the time, which was, are you fing kidding me?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Sometimes that's the best prayer.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
What did you have to talk about letting go when
you were calling in your husband? What was the thing
you had to let go of?
Speaker 3 (27:51):
So there were a lot of things that were keeping
me anchored in the past that I hadn't really noticed before.
One of them is something I call old agreements. These
are the agreements maybe you make with yourself, like I'm
never going to get hurt like that again, or an
agreement that you made with a former partner, I will
(28:14):
never love anyone more than I love you. It might
be vows you made in front of a priest before God,
or it might be even a misguided loyalty you have
with your mother who was always unhappy in love and
you kind of you don't really want to go off
and be happy in love and leave her alone. So
(28:34):
these kind of very very deep agreements we might have
made that we completely forgot about. So when I was
doing this meditation of trying on that possible future, really
stretching myself to imagine who I might be inside of
a future that I never had, and I remembered. Now
now I'm in my early forties when I'm doing this,
(28:56):
but I remembered I had a high school boyfriend named
Frank that I love with all my heart, and we
were in love the way a Romeo Juliet kind of,
you know, that impassioned teenage love. We were together for
three and a half years. We were secretly engaged to
be married, but when I turned eighteen, I wanted to
go to college. He wanted to go in his family's business.
(29:19):
It was just our our lives were not on track
for being together. So it was quite traumatic and very dramatic.
And I was a bit of a drama queen back then,
not like I'm not now, but I was. I am too,
And I said to him, well, let's part ways now,
but when we're in our sixties, we'll get together again
(29:42):
and we'll marry then. Now. Of course, you know, somehow
it made me feel better, but he didn't listen to
it at all. He married the next person and started
having his family, so our relationship just kind of got torn,
just wrenched apart. So here I am something years later.
I'm still dreaming about him. I'm still wondering if he
(30:06):
ever thinks of me, you know. And he's still like
the gold standard of love, right my high school sweetheart
who nobody is ever measuring up to. So I realized
I need to actually complete this agreement, and I call
him into meditation and I apologize for hurting him. I
tell him I'm not going to keep that agreement. I
(30:28):
cry in my tissues and I'm done with it by
the time I get off my cushion, and I felt liberated.
And the funny thing about that story is is that
then I go and I meet Mark we get married
for my Fabulous Life, Calling The One is Out. A
mutual friend reads the book, recognizes who Frank is, calls
(30:52):
Frank up and tells him that I wrote this book
and he's in the book. So I'm talking to Frank
on the phone. He connected us and he's confessing to
me that he dreamt about me for years too.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
And I said, well, when did they stop? And he
thought for a moment, he said, eight years ago.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
It's the cord.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
It was the core.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
There's an invisible court. Yes, and you have to cut
it because if you feel it, I really deeply believe
the other person feels it too.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
They do.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
How do you define the one? It sounds like you
believe that everyone has more than one, though one out there.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
I don't know that I do define that for people, okay.
I mean there's obviously things that we're looking for, which
is the experience of being safe, the experience of being
seen and supported, the experience of love that can grow
(31:50):
with you. You're definitely looking for shared values and shared vision,
which is not like a perfect man much. But I
think it's important to also remind people that even the
best relationships have areas of incompatibility that are pretty severe.
You know, you're a morning person, they're a night person.
(32:12):
Or you know you have a fast rhythm and they
have a very slow rhythm. You like it hot, they
like it cold. I mean, there's just it. It's pretty consistent.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
I had a therapist say to me one time, when
you pick your person, you pick your problem, and you
have to decide if you're okay with that problem.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Yeah. Look, really good relationships require that both people have
good character, that both people are available for commitment, and
that both people have developed certain capacities to build trust.
Because love is unconditional, but relationships are not. Relationships require trust,
(32:58):
and that means thing like keeping your word or having
the humility to own your mistakes and make amends when
you move forward. The ability to say no, to tolerate
disappointing your partner when no is the right answer for you,
to stay true to yourself and not abandon yourself. That's
(33:21):
actually protecting love. The ability to hear someone else say
no and set a limit and not withdraw or punish them.
So those are the things that create trust, and that's
what's going to help a relationship to actualize its potentials.
So I'm more looking for those three things then, And
(33:41):
I think I think we're very top heavy with charisma
right now in our CULTUREZ.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, I have a good solve for it.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Yeah, do you have one? You go for it.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
So I used to be attracted to charisma and it
landed me in a relationship with a Perton that it
was just really not for me, and a therapist taught
me to think about it in this way. Is this
the kind of charism when you meet somebody? Is this
the kind of charisma that you'd want your hypothetical future
(34:17):
son to have. Are you proud that this is the
person that you birthed and parented that is walking out
in the world.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
The answer to that is yes, it's a good type
of charisma. And if the answer is no, it's an
insecure charisma.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Charisma to me, when it's pointed outward so that everybody shines,
is beautiful. If it's charisma, that's just about kind of
you know, me, me, me, I'm the center of attention.
That's the one we want to be suspicious of. So
when it comes to love, though, it's the revaluing of character, right,
(34:52):
good character?
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Okay, I have to ask the obvious because we've seen
the success stories all over TikTok and Instagram. But it
can't all the time. There's got to be there have
to be people out there who've tried this and maybe
they didn't find the love of their life in that
seven weeks, or maybe it took longer, or maybe they're
still looking for that person. So what would you say
(35:16):
about the times where it hasn't worked. Is it something
that maybe the person isn't doing right throughout this course
or something that they're missing in the course.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
It could be, it could be. And then on the
other hand, you know, there's different parts of us that
you know might want to be single for a while.
I mean, there's a lot of value to it. So
calling in the one is not about devaluing the beauty
of choosing to go deeper on your own journey, and
(35:47):
sometimes you know it's that and sometimes well, first of all,
calling in the one, even though it's seven weeks to
attract the love of your life is a bit gimmicky really,
but you know, because it's really about seven weeks to
be your best self who's ready and a choice? Yeah, okay,
And and if I have someone come into my office,
(36:07):
and say, Okay, are you're going to promise me? Guarantee
me eleven seven weeks? I say no, right, we probably
should work together because I'm not going to. But it
does get you into the consciousness of the recognition that
you do indeed have the power to do this, that
(36:28):
you're worthy of this. But one of the last lessons
in week seven is about how to relate to disappointments.
So usually in the face of disappointments, we kind of
collapse into a see it's not going to work for
me because I really am fated to be.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Alone those old patterns again.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Yes, it comes right up. We're not you know, when
you're talking about the old beliefs, I'm not an advocate
to get rid of them. I'm just an advotation to
get them out of the driver's seat and get them
buckled up safely in the back seat. And you know,
make sure that the adult, competent wise self, the strongest
part of you, is actually running the show here. So
(37:05):
it's about being able to make empowered. Meaning of the disappointments,
What am I learning? How am I being given an
opportunity to do this differently this time so that you're
constantly able now to generate possibility for yourself.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
You so generously brought Simone and I a copy of
your book, and I said to you, I have a
little resistance to reading your book. What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (37:30):
That's actually a really common experience, And generally the first
place I explore is what the ambivalence is about having
someone in your life, right, Because that's generally it's going
to be. I'm not really safe. I don't trust myself
to not give too much of myself away or to
(37:52):
get distracted from what it is I'm committed to. So
what calling in the one can do, though, is you
might actually set an intention to be complete with your
old stories in love and really only sourcing relationships from
the strongest and wisest, healthiest part of you. That would
(38:13):
be a really good intention to set.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
I like that.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Yeah, and then it makes it less scary to do
the work because it's not like your person is right there.
You know.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
That sounds like something that could apply to our friendships too.
What do you think are the overlapping qualities between miraculous
romantic relationships and miraculous platonic relationships? Oh?
Speaker 3 (38:35):
I love that. I think that romantic relationships engage a
more primitive part of us, because there's something about going
down to touch and sexuality that kind of brings us
right down into the core of our original bonding. And
if the bonding patterns were untrustworthy. You know, you're an infant.
(38:59):
You feel like you're going to die if you don't
get food, you don't get water, You're uncomfortable, your belly hurts,
your diapers are dirty. You know, it's it's pretty severe.
The risks are pretty high. You don't really know if
someone's coming or not. So a lot of us, you know,
we kind of engage that more primitive relational trauma in
those early relationships because of the closeness of the connection.
(39:22):
So that's not to say we are at the effect
of that. It's really to say that we can build
a relationship with that younger self and the awareness of
what our projections are, what our assumptions are in any
given moment, and it's easier to do than we think.
You know, we think of the subconscious as this big,
mysterious thing and we have to you know, meditate for
(39:45):
years in a cave. But I don't think realistic. You do,
I Alaska, there you go.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Heartbreak has totally changed me. When people tell me they
haven't been heartbroken, I almost feel badly because I think
a huge part of the human experience and being in
love has really changed me. I am so curious as
to the greatest lesson that you've learned in love.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
Oh that's beautiful, that love is not something to find
but to constantly generate and create. You know, when I
look back on my first marriage with this really beautiful
man Mark, I was the one that kind of drifted
out of the marriage. I got very preoccupied with my
(40:34):
work and I didn't really scoop him in. I assumed
that because we were married, we were together, and I
hadn't yet developed the skill of creating togetherness and making
sure that I always was including him in the growth
that I was experiencing. So that was a big learning
(40:57):
for me that it wasn't just about getting married read
or getting the ring, that actually a marriage is just
the container for the real relationship to now be created.
So constant gestures of kindness, generosity, you know, going the
extra mile for someone just to keep creating and generating love.
(41:21):
And I think that that's true with our friendships, with
our family, you know, and to be future focused. Where
are we going, what are we wanting to create other
than this, and let that begin to inform how we're
showing up.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
I cannot wait to go back and re listen to
this interview because you dropped so many gems throughout this conversation.
My jaw is just on the floor and there are
just so many beautiful takeaways and ideas that I want
to keep reabsorbing and applying to my life. So thank you.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
You're so welcome. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
You've shared so much with us, You share so much
of yourself with the world. Thank you. That's it for
today's show. Tomorrow, we're making Money Moves with Alexavon Tobol.
She's founder of learn Vest and Inspired Capital and the
author of a new book that teaches kids, especially girls,
to be absolutely fearless about money. It's called Money Matters,
(42:22):
a Guide to Saving, spending and everything in between.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Simone Boys.
You can find me at Simone Boice on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
I'm Danielle Robe on Instagram. And TikTok that's ro ba.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Y see you tomorrow, Folks, keep looking on the bright side.
Hey, besties, Hello sunshine.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Today on the bright Side, we're calling in the one
with licensed marriage and family therapist Catherine Woodward Thomas.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
She quite literally wrote the book on finding the love
of your life in seven weeks or less. So now
twenty years later, her book is popping up everywhere, and
she's here to talk through how it works and why
it's still making waves. It's Monday, April twenty second. Happy
Earth Day, everybody. I'm Danielle Robe and I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Simone Voice, and this is the bright Side from Hello Sunshine, Danielle.
It's Earth Day, and this day reminds me of one
formative core memory from childhood. Tell me, and that is
eating those pudding cups with the cookie crumble on top
and the gummy worm in it.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I don't know what that is.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
You never had that, No. I used to have it
in like elementary school on Earth Day because it looked
like an earthworm. That symbolized our connection to nature.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
That's so sweet. Every Earth Day, my mom used to
grab garbage bags and gloves and we used to go
walk around the town that we lived in and pick
up garbage. And I think because of that memory, I
always say the only people that I don't like in
the world are litterers.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I agree with you, not a big fan of litterers.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Everybody else I love and accept and value, but litterers
I cannot do. Obviously, Earth Day is incredibly meaningful. But
one of the fun things I think you can do
is think about the five best things you've ever seen
on Earth.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I like that, what would be one of yours.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
I saw two turtles making a baby one time, and
that blew my mind.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
So turtle sex.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
No, no, not that it's not like miraculous, but I
mean animals are cool. Shooting stars are pretty amazing. I
saw the Grand Canyon that really was awe inducing. How
about you?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I think the quand see waterfall in Laos. It looks otherworldly,
looks like it's it's literally made by fairies, or fairies
could be like flying above it. It's just gorgeous. The way
the water cascades through these rocks. That was definitely up
there for me.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
That's super cool. What'd you do this weekend?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I took my kids to meet Blippy. I have a
four year old and a two year old pee. Blippy
is a preschool YouTube personality. Okay, yeah, very educational kind
of like this generation's Mister Rogers meets Pee Wee Herman
something like that. So we took them to go meet
him at a little like educational event.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
I had a very different weekend.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I can only imagine. I didn't see you at the
Blippy event. It was weird. I was looking for you
and you weren't there.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I went to a birthday party on Saturday night that
started at ten pm. I haven't been out that late
and so like, I can't even believe that you can
call a birthday party for ten pm. But the dress
code was kind of tree chic, so I wore like
an all dnim outfit circa Britney Spears justin Timberlake. Their
like full dena moment nice. I love costume parties, but
(03:09):
they also stress me out because I never have time
to go and get an outfit right before the party.
So I try and make something in my closet work,
and it's never quite as great as the people who
really take time to get into it. I saw some
great outfits celebrated my friend Rachel and I actually haven't
had a drink in a really long time, and I
had one drink, just one, just one. I like to
(03:33):
wake Up Fresh. I can't handle too much well. Swifties
spent almost all weekend listening to Taylor Swift's The Tortured
Poets Department, and I see people online calling it a
breakup album. Not different from her other albums many, I mean,
some are love albums. This is a breakup album. But
(03:53):
the one thing she did differently this time that stuck
out to me was she put a bunch of positive
messages out with the out drop, and I think she's
sort of closing this chapter of her life.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, that's what I'm gathering from what she wrote on
Instagram too. She said there's nothing to avenge, no scores
to settle, once wounds have healed and upon further reflection,
this is interesting. A good number of them turned out
to be self inflicted, so she's taking accountability here. I
like this last part of what she wrote. She said,
once we have spoken our saddest story, we can be
(04:24):
free of it.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Nothing to avenge, no scores to settle. I think this
is important because historically her fans are so intense that
they go after anybody who they even think has wronged her,
Like do you remember Jake Jillen Hall or Joe Jonas
like her fans just go after people. I think this
is her way of seeing, like, don't do that. All good,
(04:47):
no hate to my exes. The only drama I've kind
of seen come from this album is a song thank
You Amy, and the k I Am in that title
is capitalized, so everybody thinks it's about Kim Kardashian and
there's some dramas around that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
So she's taking ownership for her pardon everything and moving forward,
But just with the little bit of drama thrown in.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I just feel like she's saying two opposite things. She's
saying I'm taking accountability, no hate, and she's saying all's
fair in love and poetry. I'm putting it out there.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
At the end of the day, she's an entertainer and
this is all for entertainment value, and she is so
good at creating a narrative and drumming up this incredible
lore that keeps her fans engaged for decades.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Now.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
I mean, here's what I love about this moment in time,
and I loved the reaction to Beyonce's album for this
same reason. There are very few pieces of art or
culture nowadays that unite everyone and draw our attention in
the way that a Taylor Swift album drop does or
a Beyonce album drop does. I mean I feel that
way about like Game of Thrones when it was on,
(05:55):
everybody stopped what they were doing and they all watched
it and digested it together. So this is an example
of monoculture, and it feels like we don't have that
many instances of that that we can point to nowadays.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
You're right about monoculture. I think this indicates kind of
a new wave, which I like. Okay, Another thing worth
talking about is that there was a recent study published
that says America is not as divided as we think
it is. And I think we tend to think in
our country right now that we're really divided. It feels
that way if you log onto social media. But I
(06:30):
want to share some good news that I read about
on the state of our country right now, because I
think it's going to make us all feel better. A
recent poll by the Associated Press and the Nork Center
for Public Affairs Research found that despite all of the
polarization we feel in our country, we seem to agree
on what it means to be American. So nine out
of ten adults in the US believe in the right
(06:53):
to vote, the right to privacy, basically all of the
First Amendment, and they feel like these are key parts
of the American identity. I'm so tired of the polarization rhetoric.
I get happy every time I read something like this.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
We need this kind of good news right now. I mean,
I look at our society today and it just feels
so different from the environment that I grew up in
as a nineties kid. I can remember my parents having
friends that they disagreed with on just about everything in
terms of politics, but that didn't stop them from being friends.
(07:31):
And it seems like we've lost sight of that. And listen,
I know that everybody has their deal breakers and their
issues that are non negotiables. But I think this is
really encouraging, and this just reflects what I'm seeing. Whenever
we have conversations offline, whenever we have conversations that aren't
(07:52):
taking place on cable news shows, the extremes just drive
a lot of that conversation and that vitriol and that tension.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
We have become divided because we are physically divided, and
so the more togetherness we have, the less the divisiveness.
Seems like the end all be all, because you can
be around a dinner table full of people that you
disagree with and you can have a conversation face to
face that seems interesting or fine to have. When you
(08:21):
are disagreeing on the internet, people get irate, And I
think that's like a huge difference here. But I always
try to remind myself, like I'm a student of history,
and I remind myself that America has been held together
through way worse times than now. We can get through
this time. We just need a few.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
More dinners, exactly, a few more dinner parties. Dinner parties
care everything. Yeah, I love that you brought up that
example of how we've lost sight of that socialization that
we had in like the eighties and before. I'm someone
who has a very ideologically diverse group of friends, and
I don't see that all that often. But what I've
(09:01):
observed in my group of friends, where I have people
who are more on the right, people who are more
on the left, a lot of them are saying the
same things behind closed doors, and a lot of them
feel fear about expressing their true opinions and expressing how
they really feel about certain issues and I often find
(09:22):
myself thinking, Wow, I just wish I could bring these
groups together and let these conversations out and give people
a space where they feel like they could be truly honest.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah. I think our values have really been politicized in
the last few years. But I personally welcome uncomfortable conversation. Like,
I really like hearing from people that I disagree with.
It doesn't mean they're going to change my mind, but
I like hearing where they're coming from and why. There's
usually a story behind it.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Well. Also, whenever you have conversations with people that you
disagree with, it helps you understand your positions better, and
it helps you understand your own values better.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah I agree.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Okay, up next, can we really find the love of
our lives in just seven weeks? Well, we'll find out
after the break. Welcome back, everybody. I'm Simone Boyce. So
we've been seeing this book everywhere. It's called Calling in
(10:27):
the One seven weeks to attract the Love of your Life.
A friend of mine found her perfect match this way, Danielle.
Celebrities have been posting about it book clubs or reading
it together, and apparently it works for a lot of people.
Interestingly enough, this book came out two decades ago and
it's having a renaissance now.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
I have been seeing it all over today night, and
we have the creator of this renowned method with us today.
Catherine Woodward Thomas is a licensed marriage and family therapist.
She's also the best selling author of Calling in the
one seven weeks to Attract the love of your life.
And if you remember the term conscious uncoupling made popular
(11:08):
by Gwyneth Paltrow years ago, that was Catherine's phrase, Catherine,
welcome to the bright side.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Oh, it's so great to be here with you guys.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
This feels like a treat. Oh I'm about to get
a masterclass of love.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
We all are, because I know there are a lot
of applications of this method outside of just calling in
a romantic relationship. So we're going to get to that later.
But Catherine, Danielle and I have been trying to talk
to you about calling in.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
The book with me anything.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yes, we love a carte blanche interview. As I mentioned,
it's all over my timeline. People are still raving about it.
But I want to start by just breaking down what
this method is. So what is it and how does
calling in the one work?
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Okay, so most great dating advice is kind of external
to us. This is what you should wear, this is
what you should say, Wait five minutes before you answer
a text. You know, don't appear too available, you know,
all of those great little tips and helpful things. But
calling in the one is very different because it's really
(12:14):
about aligning your internal consciousness with the future that you're
committed to creating. Now, most of us, when it comes
to love, are carrying history books of disappointments, kind of
mixed messages. We remember when we were twelve and our
(12:34):
friends got bras before we did, and we remember, you know,
the dynamic between our parents or between ourselves and our
older siblings. You know, we kind of have a lot
going on about this concept of love. And basically when
we're talking about love, we're talking about who really sees me,
Who do I feel safe with, who do I feel
(12:55):
supported by? Who is there for me? Really? So it's
very core and primal. So calling in the one is
very informed by your history, and it kind of understands
the psychology of the repetition compulsion and how we all
have patterns and how we're the source of our patterns,
and we actually start in a really unlikely place, and
(13:18):
that's with the future that you're committed to creating, and
this inquiry like who would you need to be in
order to manifest the relationship you want? How will you
need to grow? What are you going to need to
let go of? And how can you actively begin to
co create that? What's your next step to co create
with the universe and manifest that miracle of love.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
I'm so glad you use the word manifest just now,
because the approach is really about manifesting that person, and
you ask readers to set a quote miraculous intention to
meet their person. So, for example, by the summer of
twenty twenty four, I will have met the love of
my life. Why is that part that futurizing important for
(14:03):
the process.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
So there's so much now happening, you know, around manifestation.
It's like the big buzzwords, right, we all want to
know what's my you know, how much agency do I
have to impact the future? And a lot of us
have kind of or we kind of grew up being
a little passive about the future. So what's waking up
in the collective is this sense of agency like, wow,
(14:28):
I really can influence what does and doesn't happen. But
I'll also tell you that research has demonstrated this. I mean,
way back in the nineteen eighties, there was research done
on the positive possible self of the future, but they
actually demonstrated that when you're living into a possible self
(14:51):
of your future consciously, because most of us do have
a possible self of the future and it's negative, it's
like more of the same. Oh, interesting, we're afraid we're
always going to be single, or no one will ever
love us, or we're going to die alone, you know,
something like that. So if you actually consciously cultivate low,
what does it feel like to be me being loved
(15:13):
and supported and happy and having overcome my past and
you know, really located my core value and my you know,
my and access to the power that I have to
grow healthy and strong. If you're living into that future,
it will begin to motivate you to show up very
(15:34):
differently in the present. So how we're showing up has
everything to do with what we're generating.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
When you say living into the future, what if you
can't envision that, Because I do believe you have to
see it.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Yes to achieve it.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yes, what if you don't know what the dream house
looks like or the dream I have no idea what
the face of my future partner looks like.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Well, you don't need to know the face, but you
do need to start to cultivate a connection with what
it might feel like to be really seen, Okay, And
it's an active imagination process, that's what the visioning processes.
And you're kind of trying on as best you can,
and you might just get slivers of what that might
(16:18):
feel like, because maybe you feel that way when your
dog comes and greets you at the end of the day.
You know, just it's unconditional love. So you do know
the experience, you know the experience from moments in your
life with maybe a child, or your mom, or your
sister or your friends. So if you are overly identified
(16:39):
with what I call the traumatized self of the past
or your wounded self, you know, the part of you
that was never good enough, the part of you that
was always put down, or the part of you that
was abused in some way. So you're still emotionally kind
of anchored and it's not really safe to open myself
up to love. So then you have to wake yourself
(17:01):
up to what else might be more true, because if
you really ask yourself, well, where is that self in
the body, and you'll you know, you can kind of
usually feel it like a heaviness on your heart or
are you going to feel it like you know, kind
of a sick feeling in your belly? And then you
say to yourself, sweetheart, how old are you? And you
recognize this is a younger part of you.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Now.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Whatever was happening back then that gave you the idea
that you weren't safe, You didn't have a lot of
resources to deal with it, you didn't have a lot
of support, and it was completely overwhelming because you couldn't
really comprehend it with any sense of complexity or sophistication.
So the ability to then speak to yourself and say,
(17:47):
you know what, honey, love is dangerous if you don't
have good boundaries, if you don't know how to actually,
you know, assert your feelings and needs in a healthy way.
But guess what, we have the power to learn those skills.
And I am the source of safety in love for
myself and for others. So that's the part that needs
(18:08):
to be in charge of love and not that younger
wound itself. O.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
I wasn't planning on doing inner child work today. I
got to be honest. I did not wake up and
see this in my day.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
For today, you emphasize the concept of calling in the
right partner rather than finding the right partner. What's the difference.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
You know, we all live in such a go get them,
make it happen kind of world. We kind of really
trust the logic of how to create something that's pretty wonderful.
If you want a PhD, you can probably research graduate
schools and figure out what tests you need to take
or what you need to do to get into that school,
(18:51):
how you're going to make the money to do it.
It's pretty laid out before you. But when you want
to create true love, it's a really different system. You
can't make true love happen. You can really only make
it welcomed and create the conditions for it and become
who you would need to be in order for that
(19:13):
future to happen. So it's almost like if you're going
to go for the Olympic gold. You can't know from
the start you're going to win the gold, but you
go all in to create the right conditions for that
possible thing to happen to you. So when we're talking about,
you know, making it happen, which is a little bit
(19:34):
of going out to find that person, you're going out
with your mental self, your list, and what your criteria is.
So you're listening to your intuition. What's my next step?
What would I need to give up? Well, probably you know,
the hope that my ex boyfriend is going to come back.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
I'm glad you brought that up because you talk a
lot about letting go in order to let love in.
So what are some of the things that you're asking
your readers to let go of?
Speaker 3 (20:03):
You know, I always trust how it comes to it.
So there's this hole in the calling. In the one,
it's written as a forty nine day course, so it's
to just get a little bits and piece each day
things to do, which we all love. We love roadmaps.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Is that seven weeks?
Speaker 3 (20:18):
That's the seven weeks forty nine days? Yes, and that's
you know, and where did that come from? I mean,
I wrote the book twenty years ago. I must have
just been reading something about Siddartha or Gluddhism or something,
because that's how long Siddartha's sat under the body tree
before he became enlightened, you know, So anyway, that's where
it came from. But I think we all know what
there is to let go of. I need to let
(20:39):
go of drinking every night, or I need to let
go of dimming down to try and not be a
threat to other people and pretending to be less than
I am. I need to let go of how hard
I am on myself. I need to let go of
so for less because I don't think I'm really going
(21:03):
to do any better. I need to let go of
tolerating selfish people in my life and accommodating them and
not confronting them when they dismiss me and my needs.
I need to let go of being conflict avoidant. You know,
do you you know we kind of know this.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Is so good, This is so good.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Well, this is good for even being in relationship. How
do I actualize the potentials of that relationship? And I
do have a lot of people coming and doing calling
in the one and the future that they're committing to
is my partner and I are thriving. You know, we
are doing great. We are expanded in our love. So
(21:46):
you know you can start with that future too.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I love that. I kind of want to do this
with my husband. Does anybody ever do that?
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Yes, yes they do. And my wildest story about that
is I had a whole family of there were six
grown up children who all over the United States and
their two parents, and they met once a week and
they all did together.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Both men and women. Yes, Because one of the things
I find is that I hear women talk about this
book all the time, and I kind of wish more
men were doing it too well.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
I think just men need to be invited and know that.
It's the thing. I mean, Look, men are valued a
lot in the culture. Traditionally that's changing fast, but you know,
traditionally men have been valued for what they can make happen,
So you know that kind of hero agency to go
and you know, make it happen. But this is a
different system, and you might say it's a more feminine
(22:40):
system of creativity.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
We're going to take a quick break and we'll be
right back, Catherine Woodward Thomas. You wrote this book twenty
years ago. Yeah, it's still to this day. Is something
that people are gravitating towards. When I talk to people
(23:04):
about dating that are older than me, they're always like, well,
dating is just so different nowadays, is it really?
Speaker 3 (23:11):
To me?
Speaker 1 (23:11):
It's kind of the same. It's just we have some technology.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
You know, it is different and it is the same,
and so the technology is clearly different, but the technology
means that there's more choice. I think twenty years ago
and I wrote it, there was this kind of emerging
new paradigm back then of love between equal partners, both
people holding power in love, which if you really look
(23:37):
historically at how relationships have gone, was a very new thing.
And then you do have a lot more choices, which
has been shown to really stress people out and actually
get in the way of making a decision. So you
have to be very aware of what you like and
(23:57):
what your life is about what you're committed to. And
so the calling in the One Course, I think why
it's hitting now is because it used to be. When
the book first came out, it was kind of for
women over thirty five. It was really interesting. Women over
thirty five were finally like, oh, you know, I might
(24:18):
want to have a family. This isn't really working for me.
Let me be willing to go a bit deeper. Now
it's across the board, women and men in their twenties,
even in their teens, are more aware. And it's funny
because my first husband, who I wrote, you know, I
have the whole story about how I met him. I
(24:39):
really did calling in the one just for myself because
I was not winning in this game of love at all,
and I'd been on a ceiling transformative journey for so
many years that I said, Okay, okay, let me just
figure this one out. And I did it for myself,
and I manifest this great relationship with this wonderful man
who is now officially my husband. And so he was
(25:01):
the inspiration for this book and for conscious uncoupling. But
he was very intuitive. It was really interesting when I
was writing the book. He's kind of an intuitive person.
He meditates a lot and stuff. And he used to
always say to me, Catherine, I don't think this book
is really going to find its true home for at
least twenty years. Wow, isn't that amazing? Ha out brush
(25:21):
is Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
He knew, Catherine, You've built a career on teaching others
how to cultivate love. After your first marriage ended, how
did you pick up the pieces and how did it
change your view of love?
Speaker 3 (25:33):
You know, I think that We've all been really inside
of the happily ever after myth so much. It's such
a deep archetype in all of our psychees. I mean,
I really had this horrible pattern of unavailable people, married men,
(25:54):
engaged men, alcoholics, you know, workaholics, any size, shape form,
you know, of impossible loves. And it really was so painful,
and here I am, you know, trying to figure it out.
I ended up going to graduate school to become a therapist.
I'm so knee deep. But then I become like a
good therapist for people who are in relationship, and I'm
(26:17):
coming home to my empty apartment, you know, night after
night with my little kitty cat Clover. So that felt
really unfair. So I figured this out for myself and
manifest this wonderful miracle, had a baby at the age
of forty three, then wrote a book. It became a
national bestseller. Then I was teaching everyone. I mean, it
was such a great I mean, Disney could not have
(26:40):
done any better with this story. And then a decade
in it became clear to both of us that the
marriage needed to transition and that we weren't right for
each other anymore. And mostly it was me just having
kind of outgrown the marriage in a lot of ways.
But so at the time it was quite and I
(27:01):
really thought my career might have been over, you know.
But the truth is is that I've always been a
person who's kind of hungry for truth and hungry for contribution.
I always want to pay forward any kind of ounce
of wisdom that I get. So I had to give up, though,
you know, this idea of myself as this big teacher
(27:22):
and choose truth. But I do remember the day that
I realized this was going to happen. I actually drove
to a park and I lay down on the grass
and I just looked up to the sky and I
prayed the only prayer that made sense to me at
the time, which was, are you fing kidding me?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Sometimes that's the best prayer.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
What did you have to talk about letting go when
you were calling in your husband? What was the thing
you had to let go of?
Speaker 3 (27:51):
So there were a lot of things that were keeping
me anchored in the past that I hadn't really noticed before.
One of them is something I call old agreements. These
are the agreements maybe you make with yourself, like I'm
never going to get hurt like that again, or an
agreement that you made with a former partner, I will
(28:14):
never love anyone more than I love you. It might
be vows you made in front of a priest before God,
or it might be even a misguided loyalty you have
with your mother who was always unhappy in love and
you kind of you don't really want to go off
and be happy in love and leave her alone. So
(28:34):
these kind of very very deep agreements we might have
made that we completely forgot about. So when I was
doing this meditation of trying on that possible future, really
stretching myself to imagine who I might be inside of
a future that I never had, and I remembered. Now
now I'm in my early forties when I'm doing this,
(28:56):
but I remembered I had a high school boyfriend named
Frank that I love with all my heart, and we
were in love the way a Romeo Juliet kind of,
you know, that impassioned teenage love. We were together for
three and a half years. We were secretly engaged to
be married, but when I turned eighteen, I wanted to
go to college. He wanted to go in his family's business.
(29:19):
It was just our our lives were not on track
for being together. So it was quite traumatic and very dramatic.
And I was a bit of a drama queen back then,
not like I'm not now, but I was. I am too,
And I said to him, well, let's part ways now,
but when we're in our sixties, we'll get together again
(29:42):
and we'll marry then. Now. Of course, you know, somehow
it made me feel better, but he didn't listen to
it at all. He married the next person and started
having his family, so our relationship just kind of got torn,
just wrenched apart. So here I am something years later.
I'm still dreaming about him. I'm still wondering if he
(30:06):
ever thinks of me, you know. And he's still like
the gold standard of love, right my high school sweetheart
who nobody is ever measuring up to. So I realized
I need to actually complete this agreement, and I call
him into meditation and I apologize for hurting him. I
tell him I'm not going to keep that agreement. I
(30:28):
cry in my tissues and I'm done with it by
the time I get off my cushion, and I felt liberated.
And the funny thing about that story is is that
then I go and I meet Mark we get married
for my Fabulous Life, Calling The One is Out. A
mutual friend reads the book, recognizes who Frank is, calls
(30:52):
Frank up and tells him that I wrote this book
and he's in the book. So I'm talking to Frank
on the phone. He connected us and he's confessing to
me that he dreamt about me for years too.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
And I said, well, when did they stop? And he
thought for a moment, he said, eight years ago.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
It's the cord.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
It was the core.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
There's an invisible court. Yes, and you have to cut
it because if you feel it, I really deeply believe
the other person feels it too.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
They do.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
How do you define the one? It sounds like you
believe that everyone has more than one, though one out there.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
I don't know that I do define that for people, okay.
I mean there's obviously things that we're looking for, which
is the experience of being safe, the experience of being
seen and supported, the experience of love that can grow
(31:50):
with you. You're definitely looking for shared values and shared vision,
which is not like a perfect man much. But I
think it's important to also remind people that even the
best relationships have areas of incompatibility that are pretty severe.
You know, you're a morning person, they're a night person.
(32:12):
Or you know you have a fast rhythm and they
have a very slow rhythm. You like it hot, they
like it cold. I mean, there's just it. It's pretty consistent.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
I had a therapist say to me one time, when
you pick your person, you pick your problem, and you
have to decide if you're okay with that problem.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Yeah. Look, really good relationships require that both people have
good character, that both people are available for commitment, and
that both people have developed certain capacities to build trust.
Because love is unconditional, but relationships are not. Relationships require trust,
(32:58):
and that means thing like keeping your word or having
the humility to own your mistakes and make amends when
you move forward. The ability to say no, to tolerate
disappointing your partner when no is the right answer for you,
to stay true to yourself and not abandon yourself. That's
(33:21):
actually protecting love. The ability to hear someone else say
no and set a limit and not withdraw or punish them.
So those are the things that create trust, and that's
what's going to help a relationship to actualize its potentials.
So I'm more looking for those three things then, And
(33:41):
I think I think we're very top heavy with charisma
right now in our CULTUREZ.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, I have a good solve for it.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Yeah, do you have one? You go for it.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
So I used to be attracted to charisma and it
landed me in a relationship with a Perton that it
was just really not for me, and a therapist taught
me to think about it in this way. Is this
the kind of charism when you meet somebody? Is this
the kind of charisma that you'd want your hypothetical future
(34:17):
son to have. Are you proud that this is the
person that you birthed and parented that is walking out
in the world.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
The answer to that is yes, it's a good type
of charisma. And if the answer is no, it's an
insecure charisma.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Charisma to me, when it's pointed outward so that everybody shines,
is beautiful. If it's charisma, that's just about kind of
you know, me, me, me, I'm the center of attention.
That's the one we want to be suspicious of. So
when it comes to love, though, it's the revaluing of character, right,
(34:52):
good character?
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Okay, I have to ask the obvious because we've seen
the success stories all over TikTok and Instagram. But it
can't all the time. There's got to be there have
to be people out there who've tried this and maybe
they didn't find the love of their life in that
seven weeks, or maybe it took longer, or maybe they're
still looking for that person. So what would you say
(35:16):
about the times where it hasn't worked. Is it something
that maybe the person isn't doing right throughout this course
or something that they're missing in the course.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
It could be, it could be. And then on the
other hand, you know, there's different parts of us that
you know might want to be single for a while.
I mean, there's a lot of value to it. So
calling in the one is not about devaluing the beauty
of choosing to go deeper on your own journey, and
(35:47):
sometimes you know it's that and sometimes well, first of all,
calling in the one, even though it's seven weeks to
attract the love of your life is a bit gimmicky really,
but you know, because it's really about seven weeks to
be your best self who's ready and a choice? Yeah, okay,
And and if I have someone come into my office,
(36:07):
and say, Okay, are you're going to promise me? Guarantee
me eleven seven weeks? I say no, right, we probably
should work together because I'm not going to. But it
does get you into the consciousness of the recognition that
you do indeed have the power to do this, that
(36:28):
you're worthy of this. But one of the last lessons
in week seven is about how to relate to disappointments.
So usually in the face of disappointments, we kind of
collapse into a see it's not going to work for
me because I really am fated to be.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Alone those old patterns again.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Yes, it comes right up. We're not you know, when
you're talking about the old beliefs, I'm not an advocate
to get rid of them. I'm just an advotation to
get them out of the driver's seat and get them
buckled up safely in the back seat. And you know,
make sure that the adult, competent wise self, the strongest
part of you, is actually running the show here. So
(37:05):
it's about being able to make empowered. Meaning of the disappointments,
What am I learning? How am I being given an
opportunity to do this differently this time so that you're
constantly able now to generate possibility for yourself.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
You so generously brought Simone and I a copy of
your book, and I said to you, I have a
little resistance to reading your book. What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (37:30):
That's actually a really common experience, And generally the first
place I explore is what the ambivalence is about having
someone in your life, right, Because that's generally it's going
to be. I'm not really safe. I don't trust myself
to not give too much of myself away or to
(37:52):
get distracted from what it is I'm committed to. So
what calling in the one can do, though, is you
might actually set an intention to be complete with your
old stories in love and really only sourcing relationships from
the strongest and wisest, healthiest part of you. That would
(38:13):
be a really good intention to set.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
I like that.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Yeah, and then it makes it less scary to do
the work because it's not like your person is right there.
You know.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
That sounds like something that could apply to our friendships too.
What do you think are the overlapping qualities between miraculous
romantic relationships and miraculous platonic relationships? Oh?
Speaker 3 (38:35):
I love that. I think that romantic relationships engage a
more primitive part of us, because there's something about going
down to touch and sexuality that kind of brings us
right down into the core of our original bonding. And
if the bonding patterns were untrustworthy. You know, you're an infant.
(38:59):
You feel like you're going to die if you don't
get food, you don't get water, You're uncomfortable, your belly hurts,
your diapers are dirty. You know, it's it's pretty severe.
The risks are pretty high. You don't really know if
someone's coming or not. So a lot of us, you know,
we kind of engage that more primitive relational trauma in
those early relationships because of the closeness of the connection.
(39:22):
So that's not to say we are at the effect
of that. It's really to say that we can build
a relationship with that younger self and the awareness of
what our projections are, what our assumptions are in any
given moment, and it's easier to do than we think.
You know, we think of the subconscious as this big,
mysterious thing and we have to you know, meditate for
(39:45):
years in a cave. But I don't think realistic. You do,
I Alaska, there you go.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Heartbreak has totally changed me. When people tell me they
haven't been heartbroken, I almost feel badly because I think
a huge part of the human experience and being in
love has really changed me. I am so curious as
to the greatest lesson that you've learned in love.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
Oh that's beautiful, that love is not something to find
but to constantly generate and create. You know, when I
look back on my first marriage with this really beautiful
man Mark, I was the one that kind of drifted
out of the marriage. I got very preoccupied with my
(40:34):
work and I didn't really scoop him in. I assumed
that because we were married, we were together, and I
hadn't yet developed the skill of creating togetherness and making
sure that I always was including him in the growth
that I was experiencing. So that was a big learning
(40:57):
for me that it wasn't just about getting married read
or getting the ring, that actually a marriage is just
the container for the real relationship to now be created.
So constant gestures of kindness, generosity, you know, going the
extra mile for someone just to keep creating and generating love.
(41:21):
And I think that that's true with our friendships, with
our family, you know, and to be future focused. Where
are we going, what are we wanting to create other
than this, and let that begin to inform how we're
showing up.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
I cannot wait to go back and re listen to
this interview because you dropped so many gems throughout this conversation.
My jaw is just on the floor and there are
just so many beautiful takeaways and ideas that I want
to keep reabsorbing and applying to my life. So thank you.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
You're so welcome. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
You've shared so much with us, You share so much
of yourself with the world. Thank you. That's it for
today's show. Tomorrow, we're making Money Moves with Alexavon Tobol.
She's founder of learn Vest and Inspired Capital and the
author of a new book that teaches kids, especially girls,
to be absolutely fearless about money. It's called Money Matters,
(42:22):
a Guide to Saving, spending and everything in between.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Simone Boys.
You can find me at Simone Boice on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
I'm Danielle Robe on Instagram. And TikTok that's ro ba.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Y see you tomorrow, Folks, keep looking on the bright side.
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