April 10, 2024 • 38 mins
Optimism is not just an outlook — it’s a mindset. And it’s a mindset that can change your life for the better, according to Dr. Sue Varma, a psychiatrist and the author of “Practical Optimism.” Dr. Varma says you can actually train your brain to become more optimistic by learning to reframe negative situations. The effects are stunning. Plus, Danielle and Simone discuss Billie Eilish’s new album, Jeremy Allen White as Bruce Springsteen, and Rihanna on plastic surgery. Have a hot take on celeb culture? You can reach our show at hello@thebrightsidepodcast.com.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey fam, Hello Sunshine. Today on the bright side, upgrade
your physical and emotional well being, psychiatrist and author doctor
Sue Varma is here to show us the power of
flexing our optimism muscle.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
It's Wednesday, April tenth. I'm simone voice.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
I'm Danielle Robe and this is the bright side from
Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Hi Danielle, see money.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
We didn't really get to catch up after your trip.
How are you feeling after watching the eclipse in real time?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I feel like it sent me into an existential spiral,
if I'm being.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Honest, only you, only me, of course, why is that?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Because I went to go watch the eclipse with all
my dad's family, like thirty relatives that I haven't seen
in probably like ten years, and I saw my aunts
and uncles and how they've been impacted by those years
that I haven't seen them, and how fast they're aging,
and it just hit me so hard. Like you know,
(01:01):
how you're growing up and you're you're at the kids
table and you look up to your uncles and aunts
and they're like these almost immortal figures in your life, yes,
and so then to see them aging and frail and
like in pain or just you know, natural signs of aging,
like silver hair. It just like it really hit me
in a big way this trip.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
It's so hard to see. Did it make you want
to move to Buffalo and take your kids there and
do a whole different kind of life.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
It didn't make me want to move there, because I
just I don't think that's me. But it did make
me think about the sacrifices that we make for our dreams,
and leaving extended family behind is one of them. Both
my dad and my mom left their families behind at
an early age to go pursue their careers, and I
did the exact same thing, and that is a very
(01:51):
real sacrifice.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I think about it all the time. Do you really, Oh,
my god, I have a I don't want to call
it an irrational fear because I think it's rational, but
a huge fear that I will not have children in
time for my parents to really know them, because I
had such a special relationship with my grandparents, and so
each year I get older, I get so anxious and
(02:14):
nervous about that because family is so deep in my bones.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, do you feel like we've lost sight of family,
of the importance of family.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Being in a city like Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I think about that a lot. I'm not sure. I
do think there's seasons in life, like I think that
we're in our mountain climbing years in a lot of ways.
But my dad always calendared things out, and I think
he did that because if you don't have something on
the calendar, it just doesn't happen. Yes, and so my
goal is to plan a few more trips and make
sure that they happen.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
That's the big takeaway for me. And when I texted
my friend about this, I was like feeling kind of
sad about it. She was like, listen, it is a
privilege and an honor to get to watch your family
members age. The big takeaway for me is I just
need to be more intentional about seeing them.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, we need family reunions.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Family bring back the family reunion that ruined the family reunion.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yes, we need to bring them back. I don't it's
pot luck. It doesn't have to be fancy. Yes, we
just need a place because it's too hard to fly
all over the country. People live everywhere nowadays. Yes, we
need one place once a year where we all come
together for one weekend.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yes, all right, Okay, So that's that's my existential crisis.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Let's lighten it up.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Okay, honestly a really real existential crisis. Though I'm glad
you brought it up. I'm glad we got to air
it out. Let's see what's popping on our feeds today.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
This is your morning drip, Danielle Billie Eilish. Are you
a fan huge?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Oh my god? She is such an old soul, wise
beyond her years.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Every time I listen to her music, I'm just like,
how why? Who?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
How? How is one person? I mean it's her and
her brother, but like, how can they be so creative
and brilliant?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
She's been here before that's why.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Oh past lives.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, yeah, lives sah yeah, she's like on her ninety
seventh life.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I think.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Okay, we haven't had the past live conversation. We need
to talk about reincarnation at some point. But okay, big
news in the world of Billie Eilish. Right, she is
hard launching her upcoming album. It's called Hit Me Hard
and Soft. I cannot wait for this. I know this
is something I'm gonna be playing on repeat. This is
actually her third full length album and it's gonna come
out next month. We don't have to wait too long.
(04:21):
May seventeenth, and she announced it on Instagram and she
said that there won't be any singles leading up to
the release. Interesting move, interesting, very strategic move. So the
album is gonna come out all at once.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
What has hit me hard and soft? Mean, like, that's
the title, It's billy, it's a little sexual.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
It's it's a dichotomy.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, there's always like eight meanings behind which you do.
So I'm excited to hear what it actually means instead
of my mind going in one direction. But speaking of
sexual did you watch The Bear of course? Okay, So
Jeremy Allen White, who has become a real sex symbol
in today's culture. You might remember him in those tidy
whities and those Calvin Klein ads, but we might also
(05:05):
see him in some very tight genes complete with an
iconic red bandana. He's reportedly in talks to play Bruce
Springsteen in the upcoming biopic Deliver Me from Nowhere the Boss,
But the movie just landed at twentieth Century Studios and
is about the making of Springsteen's nineteen eighty two Nebraska album.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I Love This for Jeremy. I think he's gonna crush it.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
He's such a talented actor. Did you see Shameless? I
watch because I'm from Chicago.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
I did not.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
He is so freaking good. He can be comedic, dramatic,
you believe him on screen, and he's so sexy, ugly.
I love him and anything.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
It's so funny that he had this whole chapter from
before The Bear where he was in Shameless, that wasn't
really on my radar, and so I think a lot
of people look at The Bear and the success of
that show and they're like, oh, he was just an
overnight success.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
He came out of nowhere. But he's been doing this
for a minute.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah he has. He earned it.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Okay, people get ready to lose control this summer because
the one, the only, Missy Elliott is going on her
first ever headline tour.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Oh cute the applause. I can't believe this is her
first ever. It is so overdue. I have no words.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
She's been making music, she's been Missy for thirty years.
How is this her first headline tour? This is insane.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Here's the thing about Missy, not that there weren't other
women rappers that deserve respect, before her because there were
but she was one of the first women rappers that
the men respected. She changed the game for female rap
artists and she the music videos she would produce were
so crazy creative. She really made an impact on the
(06:46):
industry and I think generations of people are going to
come out for this tour.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
But do you think that she had to present as
masculine in order to gain the respect to the.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Boys in the business.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I think that's just who she was.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I just wonder like, would they have treated her the
same if if she was a.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Little kim No. But it all the timing and everything
worked out for her and she made a wave.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
She's iconic, style icon Okay, So this tour, she's gonna
be bringing out busta rhymes see Aura Timbaland. I mean,
I would love to see them in person. I have
to go to this. The tour starts in July. It's
gonna hit twenty four cities across North America.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
We have to round out our morning Drip with another
boss lady. Did you see Rihanna's interview magazine cover that
just came out? Did I did you?
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
I did so? I eat up any Rihanna Interview because
she's pretty private, and in this one she actually got
really candid. You can tell she's like friendly with the interviewer.
And so it starts at three am, which is so Rihanna.
It goes for ninety minutes, and she talks about everything.
She talks about her relationship with Asap, how in love
(07:59):
they are, her kids, being in mom mode, her obsession
with Bravo. Obviously I was interested to hear her thoughts
on plastic surgery, and then, obviously, in true Rihanna fashion,
she sort of vaguely mentions new music and we don't
learn anything more.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
She keeps doing this to us every few years. Yeah, wait,
what did she say about plastic surgery? I missed that part.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I wasn't gonna mention it. But now that you ask,
her exact quote is I want my titties pinned back
to my shoulders right where they used to be. I
don't want implants, I just want to live.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I'm just imagining her walking into a plastic surgeon's office
in Beverly Hills and being like, pin these titties back
to my shoulders please right now?
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah, I mean she would see.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
I just love her. Gosh, she's so funny, but she
talks about.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
How she's scared to go under the knife, and so
you know if she if she picked one thing, it
would be her boobs.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
But she was really candid.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
That is so relatable, especially after you give birth. Them
thang saying what they used to be, be hanging low.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
You have to give me the whole lowdown.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
But I did.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I really related to one of the pictures that she
posted on her Instagram from this shoot.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
It's like she has she's like.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Dresses kind of like a trad wife almost, and she
has really dark circles under her eyes, like zombies. It's
like a zombie trad wife.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
And she her caption was literally how I feel in postpartum.
I was like, girl, I've been there. I want I
want to text her and be like, hey, I'm with you.
I don't have her number.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
How long does it take to feel like yourself again? Oh?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
God?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
See, I don't like to tell people the truth.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
What's the truth, Give it to me real the other day,
don't give me the bright side.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
So I have to tell a story. First.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I'm sitting with my friend the other day at her apartment.
She's pregnant and she's like terrified of giving birth, and
so I showed her my birth videos the other day,
like she got all of it, all of it, like
she got to see the baby coming out.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Who filmed your birth video?
Speaker 3 (09:56):
My husband? I made him do it.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
I know, isn't that I mean?
Speaker 1 (09:59):
I said direct, But it's a lot.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
It's a lot.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Even the doctor was like he doesn't need to be
doing this right now, like you're giving birth. So anyways,
I'm trying to help her feel better about giving birth.
And she asked me that question. How long does it take?
And the honest.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Truth is two years? Okay, but it's.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Incorrect after each baby or if you have two under two.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
No, I think, well, if you have two under two,
good luck, But I think it takes about a year.
A year is a pretty big milestone for you, you know,
like the baby's more independent, you're starting to feel it yourself.
It happens in stages, but two is like when you
really are like, okay, I can take back my life again.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I froze my eggs and they say, just that is
about six months. Yeah, so you can't imagine it makes
sense giving birth would be about two years.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah. The math is mathing.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Stay with us because after the break, we're learning how
to get more than just an optimistic outlook. Doctor Sue
Varmah tells us how to get optimistic out.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Oh that sounds so good. I can't wait to hear
this interview. I'm bummed that I had to miss it.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Danielle.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
We missed you so much. I actually felt like it
was an interview that you would have loved. But now
we get to listen to it. We're back. I'm Danielle
Robe and Its Wellness Wednesday. Today we're talking about a
very bright side subject, optimism. I mean, after all, we
(11:27):
named our podcast the bright Side, right, But in my mind,
optimism is not just a buzzword or a mood. It's
a mindset that shapes how we see the world and
drives our actions. There's a growing body of research that
shows changing your mindset by thinking more optimistically can actually
have a huge effect on your physical and emotional well being.
(11:48):
So maybe we're all missing a huge obvious tool in
our self care toolbox optimism. Here to talk about it
is doctor su Varma. She's a board certified psychiatrist, cogive
behavioral therapist, and the author of the book Practical Optimism,
Doctor Varma, thank you so much for joining us on
the bright Side.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Oh my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Okay, I may be a little biased, but I do
feel like this is the perfect show for your research,
Doctor Varma. Can you start us off with what your
definition of optimism is.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Yes, So, optimism is an outlook that positive things will happen, right,
And so for me, I thought this was so interesting
because when you look at resilience, optimism is a key feature.
So in an uncertain situation where any number of outcomes
are possible, an optimistic person will always imagine the most
favorable outcome. But I wanted to go one step further.
(12:43):
I didn't want to just have a person have a
positive outlook in life. I want to help them have
positive outcomes in life. Ooh, not just an outlook and outcome.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yea.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
It's actionable, actionable, absolutely, And that's what practical optimism is.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Because I think you're touching on something that people conflate.
They think of optimism and then they think happiness or positivity,
And to me, there's a real difference, Like you're not
just saying everything's great, everything's fine, and kind of lying
to yourself. Almost optimism is acknowledging that there is an issue,
but that you will see that light at the end
(13:16):
of the tunnel.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
Yes, And to me, that's how I define it. It's
a practical choice. It's a decision that you make right.
So it's not just an outlook, because look, the reality
is that some of us are not born with a
positive outlook. That's not our natural inclination. Like let's say
you're at the airport and they're like, there's a plane delay.
Does your mind automatically go to, oh my god, I'm
going to miss my plane, I'm going to miss the
(13:37):
meeting or the wedding or whatever it is that I'm
traveling to. Or does your brain say, it's fine, it'll
probably only be ten minutes, right. So we all have
a genetic predisposition, a tendency towards one or the other.
But what if you do if you're the glass half
empty type, are you screwed in life? And I'm like, no,
I don't want to be screwed in light because a
lot of times I am glass half empty depending on
the situation. And that's the other thing is that you
(13:58):
can be optimistic in one aspect of your life, let's say,
in romance and relationships, but not in others, and maybe
not in finances, maybe not at your job.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
So it can also depend a case by case.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
I was actually so curious if you consider yourself an optimist, you.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Know, that's such a tricky thing.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
I don't think I was, and I think that I
have a tendency sometimes to catastrophize, and that's something that
I learned in my own journey, and I learned over
time through this training. Like this, practical optimism is something
I've done on my patience, but I practice it every day,
Like I don't think, oh, okay now, just because I've
written a book on it, yes, you can call me
an expert, but I have to use it, and to me,
that's very freeing.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah, it is, because your book shares that it's basically
it's not a mindset, it's a muscle.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Yes, yes, exactly. Optimism is a key feature of resilience.
But I just looked at it as something you have
or you don't, and I didn't realize twenty years ago
that it's something that you can actually make an effort
to change. And it is genetic. But guess what, only
twenty five percent of it is.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Well. I was kind of laughing reading that part of
your book because I had a therapist one time ask me,
do you feel like the world has your back?
Speaker 5 (15:02):
Interesting?
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And she shared that some people do and some people don't.
And I very clearly thought about the people in my life,
like my mom feels like the world has her back.
I don't think my dad does. And your dad was
an optimist, right.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Yes, And he came from very humble beginnings. You know,
he's born in the late nineteen thirties in India. He
grew up in Rajasthan, which is in the desert. At
that time, there was no electricity. Most people didn't have it.
But when you ask him about his childhood, all he
remembers is, oh, my god, we had camel rides and
like hurricane lambs and ghost stories by the fireplace. I'm like,
that's because you had no electricity. He's like, no, no, no,
(15:40):
depends on how you want to look at it, you know,
on sleepovers and slumber parties on the rooftop. I'm like,
cause it was too hot because he didn't have fan,
because he didn't have electricity, and he would just he
spins the stories in such ways and he makes himself
laugh and just the eternal optimist. But also what I
realized is that he's got a WhatsApp chat group with
his friends from like the graduated med school the nineteen
fifties in India. He travels all over the world to
(16:02):
meet them. They have reunions. He drags me on trips
like he's constantly spearheading get together as reunions.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
He's eighty six.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Amazing. Why do you think having an optimistic mindset is important?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Optimism is a game changer in life. If you were
like I want to make more money, I want to
be more fit, Optimism is the way to go. Optimism
is a well spring for health, for wealth, for longevity,
not just longevity, but exceptional longevity, which is living into
your eighties with good health. Because a lot of times
our lifespan is increasing in this country, but our health span,
(16:32):
which is the number of year spent in good health,
is not increasing to the same proportion. They did a
two hundred thousand person study and they showed that optimism
makes you thirty percent less likely to have a heart attack,
thirty percent less likely to have strokes, thirty percent less
likely to die from any reason prematurely. Wow, you are
forty percent more likely to get a raise as an
(16:53):
optimist in the next year.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
What, Yep, you're forty percent more likely to get a raise, Yes.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
In the next year.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
How do you think that person?
Speaker 4 (17:01):
You know, the variety of things. Optimists are more likely
to a not take things personally when things don't work
out in their favor. So let's say that they were
trying to get one. They will keep trying, right and essly.
They're also really.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
Good with people.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
They have longer and stronger friendships, including in the workplace.
They're easier to get along with, they're open minded, they
have secure attachments, or they're willing to at least work
towards that.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
Right.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
They have five times less burnout, six times more work engagement.
So in every aspect of their life, like from in habits,
from mental health to mental health, they take care of themselves.
They go to annual visits, they wear their seat belt,
they're not smoking, they're exercising, so literally.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
From head to toe less anxiety, less depression.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
So before writing Practical Optimism, you spent decades as a psychiatrist.
What did you pick up from all of your patients
that led you to writing this book about optimism.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
What I realized is that only a small fraction of
people are ever going to come and get help.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Right.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
We know that mental illness or mental health disorders are
so common, one in five people have it, and anxiety
is so common, but most people forty or fifty percent
will never seek treatment for variety reasons, cost, stigma, They
don't know they have it, they just think it's part
of their personality. And I was thinking, how great would
it be if the tools that I'm giving my patients
(18:14):
who come in to make it accessible to everybody, so
that you don't have to wait for the other shoe
to drop, Because that's what happened to me. Right, And
I think that we don't focus enough on prevention. And
when I was working at the nine to eleven program,
I learned that, yes, resilience, this concept of bouncing back
from adversity is great, but I realized that me personally,
(18:35):
I was more interested in thriving in.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
The face of it.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Well, I want to touch on your personal experience, but
you mentioned the nine to eleven program. Can you share
what you were doing?
Speaker 5 (18:44):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Yes, So after my psychiatry residency training, I was recruited
for this role, so it was my first job, and
I became the medical director of the nine to eleven
Mental Health program at NYU. So we saw people from
all walks of life, all backgrounds. You could have been
the fee Wall Street you know, billionaire, or you could
have been involved with rescue, recovery, clean up, first responders,
(19:06):
people from different parts of the world, and everybody was
the same because so many people were affected. They saw
and witnessed people jumping out of the towers, they got injured,
they had asthma, medical problems, PTSD, anxiety, depression, lost loved ones,
lost coworkers, lost homes, spaces.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
So I really saw like the depths of.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Depravity in terms of terrorism and what it tries to
do chip away your morale. But I saw also the
heights of humanity of how much love that New Yorkers
had for one another. The whole country really came together
on this of how do we help one another? So
to me, that was the most beautiful takeaway is the
resilience of the human spirit and the capacity to really
take care of our fellow citizens. And that was so beautiful,
(19:51):
and so I hung on to that because I'm like,
you can dwell in the negativity or you can dwell
in possibility.
Speaker 5 (19:55):
Which one is it going to be.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
I love that you say possibility because there's a hope
there WI, which indicates a look toward the future. And
to me, that's a part of optimism. Now I can
imagine people at the other end of this conversation thinking,
you know, it's really hard to be optimistic when the
world feels really heavy or challenging or sad. But the
thing about your work is that you spent your career
(20:18):
working with trauma survivors. Their lives are heavy and challenging
and sometimes sad. But you say that you learned something
firsthand from them. What is that through line?
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (20:29):
So, you know, I feel like a lot of times
when we are sad and feeling depressed, our tendency is
to ruminate and to kind of become very self absorbed.
And I feel like, if you were to ask me why,
as a society we're so unhappy, I would say because
we are extremely self absorbed, and really, yes, and everything
about our culture is making us that way, And like
(20:52):
the pressure to succeed, the pressure to look good like God,
forbid you age. But whatever it is, it just pulls
you back inward and makes you alienated and disconnected from
the people around you. And what I learned this patient
that I worked with, she was in her sixties, and
she saw all of the horrific tragedies of that day.
She was physically injured herself. She helped a few people
(21:13):
get up and kind of save their life, if you will.
She lost co workers, and yet here she would always
come to our program year after year as part of
his screening, and we would screen her for depression anxiety,
but she never met criteria enough to come into our
mental health program. But I'd see her in the hallways
and one day I had to ask her. I'm like,
what brings you here? What are you doing? Like you're
not here for any mental health issues. She's like, no,
(21:35):
I'm accompanying X y Z patients. I'm here to give
them support because of they have panic disorder. They can't
ride the subways. And I was like, what keeps you
so happy? How do you get out of bed every
morning seeing what you saw? And she said to me,
your name was Teresa, and she told me in Spanish,
She's like me proposito my purpose. And I was like wow,
like that was so profound to me.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Doctor Varmo. We need to go to a quick break,
but when we come back, we're going to dive into
your book's eight pillars, one of which you just mentioned purpose.
We're back. I'm here with doctor su Varma, and we're
talking about purpose. Doctor Varma, that word is so weighted
(22:19):
in our culture. Everybody's talking about how do I find
my purpose? What is my purpose? Talk to me about
the link between optimism and purpose.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Yes, I'm playing with the words. A quote that I
heard was that your purpose is your soul's way of.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Engaging in the world.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Oh, I love that.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
And then what I added to that is in a
way that is aligned with your own interests, hobbies, values
and talents. And so the key is that a purpose
is not something out there to be found, right, It's
something that exists within you. And if you can't find it,
you have to create it. It's your job to create it.
That is why you are here, right, to find meaning
(23:01):
and purpose. But the best way to find meaning and
purpose is in some form of.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
Service for other people.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Yeah, and that is the antidote to all of the
unhappiness that is existing. I mean, I can tell you
this from twenty years of clinical experience that in the
depths of depression, the last thing a person has the
energy for, or bandwidth for, they think at least, is
to help another person. And the help can be so small.
It could be like just checking in on a friend.
And if you're like, but I'm depressed and I'm lonely
and no one's checking in on me. By flipping the script,
(23:30):
when you provide service to someone in some way, in
some form, all of a sudden, it gives you a
sense of agency. I'm good at something mattering, somebody needs
me belonging right, and that is what is lost when
we're feeling sad and down and depressed.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
You're hitting on something that I'm almost embarrassed to admit
I was reading your book. You talk about service so much,
and you say that you're not always supposed to find
purpose within your job. Sometimes it's outside of that. And like,
I work so many hours a week, how am I
supposed to even find an hour to go and dedicate
my time like I need to sleep. Yes, but you're right,
(24:09):
it fills you up so like the burnout actually comes
from that lack of joy that lack of purpose.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
Yes, but you know, Danielle, you can find purpose. And
I talk about that like with they call it job
crafting or role remake or just in general, finding the
joy and the purpose and the help that you're providing
in the work that you're already doing. Like you don't
have to go I don't know, to a soup kitchen
or a shelter to make a difference, right Like you're
making impact right here, like by providing information, your own expertise,
(24:36):
your humor. It's like sometimes finding purpose in the work
that you're already doing. So like if you're working a
corporate job, what can you do a lot of times
people will call me and they'll be like, I'm not
in HR, I'm not in wellness, I'm in finance. But
as a volunteer role, I've taken on like the corporation's
wellness week talk and I'm putting together or the happy
hour or the company parties or whatever bringing people together.
(24:58):
So there's simple ways that within the job that you're
already doing.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
I really like that. Do you find that in your work?
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (25:04):
I mean I feel so grateful, you know, I feel
like call I feel like it's a mission, like it's
something outside of myself. I have to say, like, it's
almost like, you know, not to get like so woo
woo here, but I feel.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Like we're a woo woo podcast.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
I feel like I was born to do this, you know,
like I just and it was maybe easier because I
grew up in a family that was very mission oriented.
You know what was hard for me, Daniel, It's so
interesting the flip side of purpose and having so much
of it that you're dripping in it is that then
you don't always prioritize yourself, right, And that is something
I have to learn the hard way.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
When you say the hard way, what do you mean?
Speaker 5 (25:38):
Are you ready to hear my story?
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Lease?
Speaker 4 (25:40):
So here, I was in the midst of my residency,
and you know, I remember when I interviewed for this program,
they were like that you will be in the trenches, right,
so you're going to be working with the wealthiest of
the wealthiest and the poorest of the poor and everyone
in between. And I was like, sign me up, you know,
but I didn't know what I was getting myself into.
We were working one hundred hours a week and then
in the midst of all of that I get a
(26:01):
call that my mom was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer. Now,
for the most part, it is treatable, right, except for
the fact that she had an underlying heart condition and
she couldn't get chemotherapy. Now, no one wanted to treat her.
So now, in addition to running around between five hospitals
of where I'm working, I'm now running around to hospitals
with her to see who would treat her. And I
(26:21):
started having these medical symptoms right and where my legs
were shaking and weak, and I didn't know what was
going on, and I was putting it off. And then
finally when I sought treatment, the neurologist was like, after
all these tests, you're totally fine, And I was like,
but I'm not. I'm experiencing like symptoms, physical physical symptoms
right and to the point where like it was hard
to stand to walk. And what I realized then and
(26:43):
now is that the body expresses what the mind cannot.
And so my body was manifesting all this stress of
what's going to happen to my mom, Is she going
to be okay? Again? That catastrophizing, right, and the mind
going to the worst place scenario, and feeling weak, and
I realized that my home culture was all about we
take care of other people, we are strong, we don't
seek help.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Right.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
So what I realized after going to therapy is that
I'm not saying it was so hard for me to
say me first, or wanting to take up space. It's
not saying me first, it's saying me too, like that
I get to I deserve to have a scene at
the table to prioritize my own wellness, which is not
something I did coming from a South Asian background, you know,
the daughter that handled everything also being a physician, like
I became her physician in some way like general practitioners.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
So I learned a lot.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
And I talk about this in the Pillar of Pride,
which is really about self compassion and how like we
focus so much on self esteem. Yeah, and the problem
with that is that self esteem is only as good
as long as you're performing and you're achieving and you're
doing well, and when things are not going right in
your life, self esteem tanks.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
This was the most surprising part of your book for me. Really. Yeah,
I've been obsessed with confidence for a long time because
I felt like a confident kid and I saw the
difference between my friends who felt confident and those who didn't.
And I felt really grateful for my parents for instilling
that in me. So I couldn't. I was like shocked, like,
why doesn't she like self esteem? What is better than
(28:09):
self esteem? Self worth and self compassion? Right?
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Because self compassion does a few things. It normalizes what
you're feeling. Yeah, right, and so you don't go down
the trap of shame and blame.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
Right.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
And shame is a precursor to depression. And it is
a slope, slippery slope that turns you inwards and says
not just I did a bad thing, It says I'm
a bad person. There's a character assassination involved when they're shame. Guilt,
on the other hand, isn't as bad because it focuses
towards reparation. Okay, I did something bad. What can I
(28:46):
do to fix it? Right? So guilt is better than shame, right,
But in extreme amounts, even guilt isn't great. But what
self compassion says is first thing is observed. What be
mindful of the negative emotions or thoughts that you're having.
And then there's an acceptance part. Right, And I added
the part where you then move forward and you make
a plan. And they've done so many studies on self
compassion that shows over and over again that if you
(29:07):
do this like three step five minute exercise, okay, observe
mindful observation of the negative thoughts except and then what
I love is this idea of common humanity is that
I'm not the only one who's been through this, right,
And they showed that with parents who were just experiencing stress,
by doing this exercise, their anxiety calms down. And also students,
(29:28):
if they're failing an exam, they do this ten minute
compassion exercise like nothing else. They didn't study anymore, they
take the test again, they do better.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Yeah, you changed my mind. I was really grateful for
that mention because I think the self esteem part is
sort of the armor that I had around me, and
through therapy, I've learned way more self compassion. And the
thing that has I think changed my life the most
is that when you give yourself more compassion or you
(29:54):
judge yourself less, you're actually able to give more compassion
to others, judge others less. Yeah, it all starts inward,
and you're giving other people a gift. Yes, you have
been an expert on so many talk shows. What's a
part of your book that people haven't touched on that
you think is really important.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
You know, one thing that I'm really passionate about is
just the idea of where we're going as a society,
and I'm really concerned about it. There's something called the
shallowing hypothesis, which is that our relationships are not going
as deep as they used to.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
I have, so I have a whole thing on this.
Oh tell me, because I'm obsessed with questions. I think
questions are a love language, and it's really about presence.
To me, a question is saying I'd rather be here
with you than anybody else.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
And I think what you're hitting on is this high communication,
low connection world. Yes, yes, And what did you call it?
Speaker 4 (30:46):
The shallowing ye shallowing, shallowing hypothesis, And you know, there's
a lot of research behind it. But they're showing that,
like everything is getting dumbed down. And actually there was
an interesting article that was, like, even our lyrics in songs,
the words have become simpler. And not only are the
words simpler, they're fewer. It's the same repetitive stuff. And
this is not even ai. This is just songwriting. And
(31:06):
also the lyrics are more angry. I thought this was interesting,
and more self obsessed. This is these are the three takeaways.
And I was like, and they're like, this is a
reflection of who we are.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
More angry, more self obsessed, and simpler.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
And simpler, and like just this idea of are like
the mere presence of a phone on a dinner table
already signals that the conversation isn't going to go deep.
It's a predictor because you're already anticipating some sort of interruption,
and there's a lot of anxiety of like, oh my god,
this person has to leave or something's going to happen.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Yes, you feel like they're busy. Maybe I shouldn't be here.
Is this too much for them?
Speaker 5 (31:40):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (31:40):
And so I talk about like how to this idea
of emotional attunement, which is like being in tune with
the person's emotions. So I love that you ask the
questions and.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
You kind of I think sometimes we forget to ask
big questions to people closest to usk, as we ask
how's your day? You know, we're in the minutia.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
I think that the shollowing hypoth is what's happening to
our society and the fact that everything is like contact less, Like, yes,
we have more convenience like the Amazon, Instacar and all
that stuff zoom, but we're missing so many of those
built in interactions like just signing a credit card slip
back in the day. So that's why I like, I
love when I see things coming out of Europe where
they're having walking clubs where people, you know, where the
(32:19):
point is the talking, the point is the social interaction. Here,
I feel like you have to dupe people into they're like, no,
thank you, I don't need social interaction. Yes, but I'll
come for the biking, but don't make me talk or interact,
you know.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yeah, so I think they're missing it. Yeah, they're missing
the point for everybody listening, including myself. What are four
things that practical optimists do?
Speaker 4 (32:40):
So there are four things that practical optimists do every day,
which is make time for the four ms. So those
are mastery. And the key here is that you don't
have to be a master to experience mastery. It could
be a sport, it could be a hobby, but the
idea that you're getting better at something progress yes, and
that creates creating a flow state in your brain where
you're totally immersed in something. So take on something that's
(33:02):
just for you, doesn't have to be for anyone else. Mindfulness,
and this doesn't have to be a sixty minute meditation.
It could literally be one minute. Listen to an app
comap or whatever it is on YouTube. But the key
here is to do something single mindedly. Even if you're
washing dishes, just focus just on that. You can listen
to this podcast while you're doing the dishes, but otherwise,
just be focused. The other one is meaningful engagement and
(33:25):
in whatever way that you want to go deeper. Do
you want to do the fifty two questions? If there
was a podcast that you listen to share it with
people something this made me think of you? You know that,
I think that's really key every day, And to do
like once a week face to face to meet someone
in person, I think that's really key.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
And then movement.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
We don't realize that the benefit of movement in every
aspect of our life, not only cognitive health, bone health,
muscle health, all of that. Right, if you feel like
I don't know what my purpose is, do one workout
session that one workout session is enough to on some level,
decrease anxiety and depression, but also boost yoursel sense of
purpose in life.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
I mean, how awesome is.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
That Every time I've been really sad, all I know
is to turn to to go workout, and I have
my mom to thank for that.
Speaker 5 (34:09):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
But I don't quite understand that link. Why does it? Yeah,
give us it makes me feel purposeful?
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Yes, totally so on one level. Okay, so it's boosting
the endorphins, it's boosting dopamine. You even your body image
changes just from work one workout. You're the same person
from forty five minutes ago, more or less. Yeah, plus
one workout. Right, so you're like, I didn't like suddenly
grow a six pack or what, you know, just one
forty five minute workout, but you feel so productive. You're
(34:38):
like I did something really hard today. And it's that
sense of agency, like I can, I am capable. So
I feel like the takeaway. So these four habits, they
are really like habits unto themselves, but you don't realize
they are also habits that beget other habits because once
you do them, every single day, you connected with a friend, right,
you did the workout, you did some form of meditation
(35:01):
or whatever it is. You got better at a scale
or a hobby, and hey, you can combine all four
of them by pick one class, go with a friend.
You've hit off, checked off, meaningful engagement. You've done the movement.
You can do some mindfulness. If it's yoga mastery, you're
getting better at it. But then you come back in
one hour you could hit all four and then the
rest of your day you're like, I'm an awesome person.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Bring it on.
Speaker 4 (35:21):
So you're going to start opening bills that you've been
putting aside. You're going to open mails. You're going to
start applying for a new job. You might take on
a new venture. You might plan a trip, you might
ask for the promotion, you might ask somebody out on
a date. Like it's going to give it's going to
refuel you.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
It's the objects in motion. Stay in motion.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
Absolutely. I love that you said that.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Okay, what is one thing we can all do today
to increase our optimism?
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Learn to reframe any negative situation. So bringing it back
to me talking about my dad, like, yes, you can
feel sorry for yourself. The world sometimes feels like it's
on fire because it kind of is right, like, with
all that's happening in the world, it's so easy to
get pulled down and drag down in the negativity, and
you can just ask yourself, how can I be a
more compassionate version of myself? How can I give myself grace?
(36:05):
How can I give other people grace?
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Doctor Varma, I knew that this conversation was going to
be wonderful, but I didn't know just how wonderful. Thank
you so much for this.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
Thank you, Thank you so much for having me now.
I'm such a pleasure to meet you in person.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Doctor Sue Varma is a psychiatrist and cognitive behavioral therapist
and the author of the book Practical Optimism. It's hard
to pick just one takeaway from this conversation because I
think doctor Varmah actually illuminated a lot. But one of
the lessons that stuck with me was not so much
about her work or her research or her study, which
(36:43):
was all fascinating. It was how she chose to live
her life. And it's that optimism is a muscle, not
a mindset. I think that it's something we take for granted.
We think we should just be optimistic, but there's all
these practices and habits we can put in place to
have more agency over it.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
I'm embarrassed to admit how old I was when I
actually learned this and put it into practice. I don't
think it's something that most people grow up learning or
being taught.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
We don't think about it. We just take it for granted.
I think, what do you do to be more optimistic?
Speaker 2 (37:16):
I think it's about gratitude. It's about perspective. I think
my family really helps me with that. And this idea
of remembering when you wanted what you have now finding
small ways to remind yourself of that every day.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
That sounds like gratitude's big for you.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Yeah, I think that makes me more optimistic.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
I love that you mentioned family. I think family makes
me more optimistic too. And seeing older relatives and they've
gone through hard things and they make it through. That
makes me more optimistic. Like having that totem poll almost Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
And friends too, friends that make you laugh.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yeah. She mentions connection a lot, which is important, those girlfriends,
those dinner table conversations that just make everything hard feel
like it's gonna be okay, okay. Tomorrow, we're doing something
a little different. We're putting on a memorial for The
girl Boss. Culture critic Lee Stein helps us lay her
(38:16):
to rest oof.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
I got a lot to say about her. Not Lee Stein,
but the girl Boss.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can
find me your girl Simone boys on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
I'm Danielle robe at Danielle robe on Instagram and TikTok.
That's ro b A.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Y See you tomorrow, folks. Keep looking on the bright side.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Bye besties.
Hey fam, Hello Sunshine. Today on the bright side, upgrade
your physical and emotional well being, psychiatrist and author doctor
Sue Varma is here to show us the power of
flexing our optimism muscle.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
It's Wednesday, April tenth. I'm simone voice.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
I'm Danielle Robe and this is the bright side from
Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Hi Danielle, see money.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
We didn't really get to catch up after your trip.
How are you feeling after watching the eclipse in real time?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I feel like it sent me into an existential spiral,
if I'm being.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Honest, only you, only me, of course, why is that?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Because I went to go watch the eclipse with all
my dad's family, like thirty relatives that I haven't seen
in probably like ten years, and I saw my aunts
and uncles and how they've been impacted by those years
that I haven't seen them, and how fast they're aging,
and it just hit me so hard. Like you know,
(01:01):
how you're growing up and you're you're at the kids
table and you look up to your uncles and aunts
and they're like these almost immortal figures in your life, yes,
and so then to see them aging and frail and
like in pain or just you know, natural signs of aging,
like silver hair. It just like it really hit me
in a big way this trip.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
It's so hard to see. Did it make you want
to move to Buffalo and take your kids there and
do a whole different kind of life.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
It didn't make me want to move there, because I
just I don't think that's me. But it did make
me think about the sacrifices that we make for our dreams,
and leaving extended family behind is one of them. Both
my dad and my mom left their families behind at
an early age to go pursue their careers, and I
did the exact same thing, and that is a very
(01:51):
real sacrifice.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I think about it all the time. Do you really, Oh,
my god, I have a I don't want to call
it an irrational fear because I think it's rational, but
a huge fear that I will not have children in
time for my parents to really know them, because I
had such a special relationship with my grandparents, and so
each year I get older, I get so anxious and
(02:14):
nervous about that because family is so deep in my bones.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, do you feel like we've lost sight of family,
of the importance of family.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Being in a city like Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I think about that a lot. I'm not sure. I
do think there's seasons in life, like I think that
we're in our mountain climbing years in a lot of ways.
But my dad always calendared things out, and I think
he did that because if you don't have something on
the calendar, it just doesn't happen. Yes, and so my
goal is to plan a few more trips and make
sure that they happen.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
That's the big takeaway for me. And when I texted
my friend about this, I was like feeling kind of
sad about it. She was like, listen, it is a
privilege and an honor to get to watch your family
members age. The big takeaway for me is I just
need to be more intentional about seeing them.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, we need family reunions.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Family bring back the family reunion that ruined the family reunion.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yes, we need to bring them back. I don't it's
pot luck. It doesn't have to be fancy. Yes, we
just need a place because it's too hard to fly
all over the country. People live everywhere nowadays. Yes, we
need one place once a year where we all come
together for one weekend.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yes, all right, Okay, So that's that's my existential crisis.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Let's lighten it up.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Okay, honestly a really real existential crisis. Though I'm glad
you brought it up. I'm glad we got to air
it out. Let's see what's popping on our feeds today.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
This is your morning drip, Danielle Billie Eilish. Are you
a fan huge?
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Oh my god? She is such an old soul, wise
beyond her years.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Every time I listen to her music, I'm just like,
how why? Who?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
How? How is one person? I mean it's her and
her brother, but like, how can they be so creative
and brilliant?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
She's been here before that's why.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Oh past lives.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, yeah, lives sah yeah, she's like on her ninety
seventh life.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I think.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Okay, we haven't had the past live conversation. We need
to talk about reincarnation at some point. But okay, big
news in the world of Billie Eilish. Right, she is
hard launching her upcoming album. It's called Hit Me Hard
and Soft. I cannot wait for this. I know this
is something I'm gonna be playing on repeat. This is
actually her third full length album and it's gonna come
out next month. We don't have to wait too long.
(04:21):
May seventeenth, and she announced it on Instagram and she
said that there won't be any singles leading up to
the release. Interesting move, interesting, very strategic move. So the
album is gonna come out all at once.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
What has hit me hard and soft? Mean, like, that's
the title, It's billy, it's a little sexual.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
It's it's a dichotomy.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, there's always like eight meanings behind which you do.
So I'm excited to hear what it actually means instead
of my mind going in one direction. But speaking of
sexual did you watch The Bear of course? Okay, So
Jeremy Allen White, who has become a real sex symbol
in today's culture. You might remember him in those tidy
whities and those Calvin Klein ads, but we might also
(05:05):
see him in some very tight genes complete with an
iconic red bandana. He's reportedly in talks to play Bruce
Springsteen in the upcoming biopic Deliver Me from Nowhere the Boss,
But the movie just landed at twentieth Century Studios and
is about the making of Springsteen's nineteen eighty two Nebraska album.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I Love This for Jeremy. I think he's gonna crush it.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
He's such a talented actor. Did you see Shameless? I
watch because I'm from Chicago.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
I did not.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
He is so freaking good. He can be comedic, dramatic,
you believe him on screen, and he's so sexy, ugly.
I love him and anything.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
It's so funny that he had this whole chapter from
before The Bear where he was in Shameless, that wasn't
really on my radar, and so I think a lot
of people look at The Bear and the success of
that show and they're like, oh, he was just an
overnight success.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
He came out of nowhere. But he's been doing this
for a minute.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah he has. He earned it.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Okay, people get ready to lose control this summer because
the one, the only, Missy Elliott is going on her
first ever headline tour.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Oh cute the applause. I can't believe this is her
first ever. It is so overdue. I have no words.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
She's been making music, she's been Missy for thirty years.
How is this her first headline tour? This is insane.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Here's the thing about Missy, not that there weren't other
women rappers that deserve respect, before her because there were
but she was one of the first women rappers that
the men respected. She changed the game for female rap
artists and she the music videos she would produce were
so crazy creative. She really made an impact on the
(06:46):
industry and I think generations of people are going to
come out for this tour.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
But do you think that she had to present as
masculine in order to gain the respect to the.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Boys in the business.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
I think that's just who she was.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
I just wonder like, would they have treated her the
same if if she was a.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Little kim No. But it all the timing and everything
worked out for her and she made a wave.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
She's iconic, style icon Okay, So this tour, she's gonna
be bringing out busta rhymes see Aura Timbaland. I mean,
I would love to see them in person. I have
to go to this. The tour starts in July. It's
gonna hit twenty four cities across North America.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
We have to round out our morning Drip with another
boss lady. Did you see Rihanna's interview magazine cover that
just came out? Did I did you?
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
I did so? I eat up any Rihanna Interview because
she's pretty private, and in this one she actually got
really candid. You can tell she's like friendly with the interviewer.
And so it starts at three am, which is so Rihanna.
It goes for ninety minutes, and she talks about everything.
She talks about her relationship with Asap, how in love
(07:59):
they are, her kids, being in mom mode, her obsession
with Bravo. Obviously I was interested to hear her thoughts
on plastic surgery, and then, obviously, in true Rihanna fashion,
she sort of vaguely mentions new music and we don't
learn anything more.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
She keeps doing this to us every few years. Yeah, wait,
what did she say about plastic surgery? I missed that part.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I wasn't gonna mention it. But now that you ask,
her exact quote is I want my titties pinned back
to my shoulders right where they used to be. I
don't want implants, I just want to live.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I'm just imagining her walking into a plastic surgeon's office
in Beverly Hills and being like, pin these titties back
to my shoulders please right now?
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah, I mean she would see.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
I just love her. Gosh, she's so funny, but she
talks about.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
How she's scared to go under the knife, and so
you know if she if she picked one thing, it
would be her boobs.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
But she was really candid.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
That is so relatable, especially after you give birth. Them
thang saying what they used to be, be hanging low.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
You have to give me the whole lowdown.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
But I did.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I really related to one of the pictures that she
posted on her Instagram from this shoot.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
It's like she has she's like.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Dresses kind of like a trad wife almost, and she
has really dark circles under her eyes, like zombies. It's
like a zombie trad wife.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
And she her caption was literally how I feel in postpartum.
I was like, girl, I've been there. I want I
want to text her and be like, hey, I'm with you.
I don't have her number.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
How long does it take to feel like yourself again? Oh?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
God?
Speaker 3 (09:32):
See, I don't like to tell people the truth.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
What's the truth, Give it to me real the other day,
don't give me the bright side.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
So I have to tell a story. First.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
I'm sitting with my friend the other day at her apartment.
She's pregnant and she's like terrified of giving birth, and
so I showed her my birth videos the other day,
like she got all of it, all of it, like
she got to see the baby coming out.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Who filmed your birth video?
Speaker 3 (09:56):
My husband? I made him do it.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
I know, isn't that I mean?
Speaker 1 (09:59):
I said direct, But it's a lot.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
It's a lot.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Even the doctor was like he doesn't need to be
doing this right now, like you're giving birth. So anyways,
I'm trying to help her feel better about giving birth.
And she asked me that question. How long does it take?
And the honest.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Truth is two years? Okay, but it's.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Incorrect after each baby or if you have two under two.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
No, I think, well, if you have two under two,
good luck, But I think it takes about a year.
A year is a pretty big milestone for you, you know,
like the baby's more independent, you're starting to feel it yourself.
It happens in stages, but two is like when you
really are like, okay, I can take back my life again.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
I froze my eggs and they say, just that is
about six months. Yeah, so you can't imagine it makes
sense giving birth would be about two years.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah. The math is mathing.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Stay with us because after the break, we're learning how
to get more than just an optimistic outlook. Doctor Sue
Varmah tells us how to get optimistic out.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Oh that sounds so good. I can't wait to hear
this interview. I'm bummed that I had to miss it.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
Danielle.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
We missed you so much. I actually felt like it
was an interview that you would have loved. But now
we get to listen to it. We're back. I'm Danielle
Robe and Its Wellness Wednesday. Today we're talking about a
very bright side subject, optimism. I mean, after all, we
(11:27):
named our podcast the bright Side, right, But in my mind,
optimism is not just a buzzword or a mood. It's
a mindset that shapes how we see the world and
drives our actions. There's a growing body of research that
shows changing your mindset by thinking more optimistically can actually
have a huge effect on your physical and emotional well being.
(11:48):
So maybe we're all missing a huge obvious tool in
our self care toolbox optimism. Here to talk about it
is doctor su Varma. She's a board certified psychiatrist, cogive
behavioral therapist, and the author of the book Practical Optimism,
Doctor Varma, thank you so much for joining us on
the bright Side.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Oh my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Okay, I may be a little biased, but I do
feel like this is the perfect show for your research,
Doctor Varma. Can you start us off with what your
definition of optimism is.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Yes, So, optimism is an outlook that positive things will happen, right,
And so for me, I thought this was so interesting
because when you look at resilience, optimism is a key feature.
So in an uncertain situation where any number of outcomes
are possible, an optimistic person will always imagine the most
favorable outcome. But I wanted to go one step further.
(12:43):
I didn't want to just have a person have a
positive outlook in life. I want to help them have
positive outcomes in life. Ooh, not just an outlook and outcome.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Yea.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
It's actionable, actionable, absolutely, And that's what practical optimism is.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Because I think you're touching on something that people conflate.
They think of optimism and then they think happiness or positivity,
And to me, there's a real difference, Like you're not
just saying everything's great, everything's fine, and kind of lying
to yourself. Almost optimism is acknowledging that there is an issue,
but that you will see that light at the end
(13:16):
of the tunnel.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
Yes, And to me, that's how I define it. It's
a practical choice. It's a decision that you make right.
So it's not just an outlook, because look, the reality
is that some of us are not born with a
positive outlook. That's not our natural inclination. Like let's say
you're at the airport and they're like, there's a plane delay.
Does your mind automatically go to, oh my god, I'm
going to miss my plane, I'm going to miss the
(13:37):
meeting or the wedding or whatever it is that I'm
traveling to. Or does your brain say, it's fine, it'll
probably only be ten minutes, right. So we all have
a genetic predisposition, a tendency towards one or the other.
But what if you do if you're the glass half
empty type, are you screwed in life? And I'm like, no,
I don't want to be screwed in light because a
lot of times I am glass half empty depending on
the situation. And that's the other thing is that you
(13:58):
can be optimistic in one aspect of your life, let's say,
in romance and relationships, but not in others, and maybe
not in finances, maybe not at your job.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
So it can also depend a case by case.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
I was actually so curious if you consider yourself an optimist, you.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
Know, that's such a tricky thing.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
I don't think I was, and I think that I
have a tendency sometimes to catastrophize, and that's something that
I learned in my own journey, and I learned over
time through this training. Like this, practical optimism is something
I've done on my patience, but I practice it every day,
Like I don't think, oh, okay now, just because I've
written a book on it, yes, you can call me
an expert, but I have to use it, and to me,
that's very freeing.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
Yeah, it is, because your book shares that it's basically
it's not a mindset, it's a muscle.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
Yes, yes, exactly. Optimism is a key feature of resilience.
But I just looked at it as something you have
or you don't, and I didn't realize twenty years ago
that it's something that you can actually make an effort
to change. And it is genetic. But guess what, only
twenty five percent of it is.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Well. I was kind of laughing reading that part of
your book because I had a therapist one time ask me,
do you feel like the world has your back?
Speaker 5 (15:02):
Interesting?
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And she shared that some people do and some people don't.
And I very clearly thought about the people in my life,
like my mom feels like the world has her back.
I don't think my dad does. And your dad was
an optimist, right.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Yes, And he came from very humble beginnings. You know,
he's born in the late nineteen thirties in India. He
grew up in Rajasthan, which is in the desert. At
that time, there was no electricity. Most people didn't have it.
But when you ask him about his childhood, all he
remembers is, oh, my god, we had camel rides and
like hurricane lambs and ghost stories by the fireplace. I'm like,
that's because you had no electricity. He's like, no, no, no,
(15:40):
depends on how you want to look at it, you know,
on sleepovers and slumber parties on the rooftop. I'm like,
cause it was too hot because he didn't have fan,
because he didn't have electricity, and he would just he
spins the stories in such ways and he makes himself
laugh and just the eternal optimist. But also what I
realized is that he's got a WhatsApp chat group with
his friends from like the graduated med school the nineteen
fifties in India. He travels all over the world to
(16:02):
meet them. They have reunions. He drags me on trips
like he's constantly spearheading get together as reunions.
Speaker 5 (16:07):
He's eighty six.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Amazing. Why do you think having an optimistic mindset is important?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Optimism is a game changer in life. If you were
like I want to make more money, I want to
be more fit, Optimism is the way to go. Optimism
is a well spring for health, for wealth, for longevity,
not just longevity, but exceptional longevity, which is living into
your eighties with good health. Because a lot of times
our lifespan is increasing in this country, but our health span,
(16:32):
which is the number of year spent in good health,
is not increasing to the same proportion. They did a
two hundred thousand person study and they showed that optimism
makes you thirty percent less likely to have a heart attack,
thirty percent less likely to have strokes, thirty percent less
likely to die from any reason prematurely. Wow, you are
forty percent more likely to get a raise as an
(16:53):
optimist in the next year.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
What, Yep, you're forty percent more likely to get a raise, Yes.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
In the next year.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
How do you think that person?
Speaker 4 (17:01):
You know, the variety of things. Optimists are more likely
to a not take things personally when things don't work
out in their favor. So let's say that they were
trying to get one. They will keep trying, right and essly.
They're also really.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
Good with people.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
They have longer and stronger friendships, including in the workplace.
They're easier to get along with, they're open minded, they
have secure attachments, or they're willing to at least work
towards that.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
Right.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
They have five times less burnout, six times more work engagement.
So in every aspect of their life, like from in habits,
from mental health to mental health, they take care of themselves.
They go to annual visits, they wear their seat belt,
they're not smoking, they're exercising, so literally.
Speaker 5 (17:36):
From head to toe less anxiety, less depression.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
So before writing Practical Optimism, you spent decades as a psychiatrist.
What did you pick up from all of your patients
that led you to writing this book about optimism.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
What I realized is that only a small fraction of
people are ever going to come and get help.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Right.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
We know that mental illness or mental health disorders are
so common, one in five people have it, and anxiety
is so common, but most people forty or fifty percent
will never seek treatment for variety reasons, cost, stigma, They
don't know they have it, they just think it's part
of their personality. And I was thinking, how great would
it be if the tools that I'm giving my patients
(18:14):
who come in to make it accessible to everybody, so
that you don't have to wait for the other shoe
to drop, Because that's what happened to me. Right, And
I think that we don't focus enough on prevention. And
when I was working at the nine to eleven program,
I learned that, yes, resilience, this concept of bouncing back
from adversity is great, but I realized that me personally,
(18:35):
I was more interested in thriving in.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
The face of it.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Well, I want to touch on your personal experience, but
you mentioned the nine to eleven program. Can you share
what you were doing?
Speaker 5 (18:44):
Sure?
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Yes, So after my psychiatry residency training, I was recruited
for this role, so it was my first job, and
I became the medical director of the nine to eleven
Mental Health program at NYU. So we saw people from
all walks of life, all backgrounds. You could have been
the fee Wall Street you know, billionaire, or you could
have been involved with rescue, recovery, clean up, first responders,
(19:06):
people from different parts of the world, and everybody was
the same because so many people were affected. They saw
and witnessed people jumping out of the towers, they got injured,
they had asthma, medical problems, PTSD, anxiety, depression, lost loved ones,
lost coworkers, lost homes, spaces.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
So I really saw like the depths of.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Depravity in terms of terrorism and what it tries to
do chip away your morale. But I saw also the
heights of humanity of how much love that New Yorkers
had for one another. The whole country really came together
on this of how do we help one another? So
to me, that was the most beautiful takeaway is the
resilience of the human spirit and the capacity to really
take care of our fellow citizens. And that was so beautiful,
(19:51):
and so I hung on to that because I'm like,
you can dwell in the negativity or you can dwell
in possibility.
Speaker 5 (19:55):
Which one is it going to be.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
I love that you say possibility because there's a hope
there WI, which indicates a look toward the future. And
to me, that's a part of optimism. Now I can
imagine people at the other end of this conversation thinking,
you know, it's really hard to be optimistic when the
world feels really heavy or challenging or sad. But the
thing about your work is that you spent your career
(20:18):
working with trauma survivors. Their lives are heavy and challenging
and sometimes sad. But you say that you learned something
firsthand from them. What is that through line?
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (20:29):
So, you know, I feel like a lot of times
when we are sad and feeling depressed, our tendency is
to ruminate and to kind of become very self absorbed.
And I feel like, if you were to ask me why,
as a society we're so unhappy, I would say because
we are extremely self absorbed, and really, yes, and everything
about our culture is making us that way, And like
(20:52):
the pressure to succeed, the pressure to look good like God,
forbid you age. But whatever it is, it just pulls
you back inward and makes you alienated and disconnected from
the people around you. And what I learned this patient
that I worked with, she was in her sixties, and
she saw all of the horrific tragedies of that day.
She was physically injured herself. She helped a few people
(21:13):
get up and kind of save their life, if you will.
She lost co workers, and yet here she would always
come to our program year after year as part of
his screening, and we would screen her for depression anxiety,
but she never met criteria enough to come into our
mental health program. But I'd see her in the hallways
and one day I had to ask her. I'm like,
what brings you here? What are you doing? Like you're
not here for any mental health issues. She's like, no,
(21:35):
I'm accompanying X y Z patients. I'm here to give
them support because of they have panic disorder. They can't
ride the subways. And I was like, what keeps you
so happy? How do you get out of bed every
morning seeing what you saw? And she said to me,
your name was Teresa, and she told me in Spanish,
She's like me proposito my purpose. And I was like wow,
like that was so profound to me.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Doctor Varmo. We need to go to a quick break,
but when we come back, we're going to dive into
your book's eight pillars, one of which you just mentioned purpose.
We're back. I'm here with doctor su Varma, and we're
talking about purpose. Doctor Varma, that word is so weighted
(22:19):
in our culture. Everybody's talking about how do I find
my purpose? What is my purpose? Talk to me about
the link between optimism and purpose.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Yes, I'm playing with the words. A quote that I
heard was that your purpose is your soul's way of.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
Engaging in the world.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Oh, I love that.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
And then what I added to that is in a
way that is aligned with your own interests, hobbies, values
and talents. And so the key is that a purpose
is not something out there to be found, right, It's
something that exists within you. And if you can't find it,
you have to create it. It's your job to create it.
That is why you are here, right, to find meaning
(23:01):
and purpose. But the best way to find meaning and
purpose is in some form of.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
Service for other people.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Yeah, and that is the antidote to all of the
unhappiness that is existing. I mean, I can tell you
this from twenty years of clinical experience that in the
depths of depression, the last thing a person has the
energy for, or bandwidth for, they think at least, is
to help another person. And the help can be so small.
It could be like just checking in on a friend.
And if you're like, but I'm depressed and I'm lonely
and no one's checking in on me. By flipping the script,
(23:30):
when you provide service to someone in some way, in
some form, all of a sudden, it gives you a
sense of agency. I'm good at something mattering, somebody needs
me belonging right, and that is what is lost when
we're feeling sad and down and depressed.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
You're hitting on something that I'm almost embarrassed to admit
I was reading your book. You talk about service so much,
and you say that you're not always supposed to find
purpose within your job. Sometimes it's outside of that. And like,
I work so many hours a week, how am I
supposed to even find an hour to go and dedicate
my time like I need to sleep. Yes, but you're right,
(24:09):
it fills you up so like the burnout actually comes
from that lack of joy that lack of purpose.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
Yes, but you know, Danielle, you can find purpose. And
I talk about that like with they call it job
crafting or role remake or just in general, finding the
joy and the purpose and the help that you're providing
in the work that you're already doing. Like you don't
have to go I don't know, to a soup kitchen
or a shelter to make a difference, right Like you're
making impact right here, like by providing information, your own expertise,
(24:36):
your humor. It's like sometimes finding purpose in the work
that you're already doing. So like if you're working a
corporate job, what can you do a lot of times
people will call me and they'll be like, I'm not
in HR, I'm not in wellness, I'm in finance. But
as a volunteer role, I've taken on like the corporation's
wellness week talk and I'm putting together or the happy
hour or the company parties or whatever bringing people together.
(24:58):
So there's simple ways that within the job that you're
already doing.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
I really like that. Do you find that in your work?
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (25:04):
I mean I feel so grateful, you know, I feel
like call I feel like it's a mission, like it's
something outside of myself. I have to say, like, it's
almost like, you know, not to get like so woo
woo here, but I feel.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Like we're a woo woo podcast.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
I feel like I was born to do this, you know,
like I just and it was maybe easier because I
grew up in a family that was very mission oriented.
You know what was hard for me, Daniel, It's so
interesting the flip side of purpose and having so much
of it that you're dripping in it is that then
you don't always prioritize yourself, right, And that is something
I have to learn the hard way.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
When you say the hard way, what do you mean?
Speaker 5 (25:38):
Are you ready to hear my story?
Speaker 3 (25:39):
Lease?
Speaker 4 (25:40):
So here, I was in the midst of my residency,
and you know, I remember when I interviewed for this program,
they were like that you will be in the trenches, right,
so you're going to be working with the wealthiest of
the wealthiest and the poorest of the poor and everyone
in between. And I was like, sign me up, you know,
but I didn't know what I was getting myself into.
We were working one hundred hours a week and then
in the midst of all of that I get a
(26:01):
call that my mom was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer. Now,
for the most part, it is treatable, right, except for
the fact that she had an underlying heart condition and
she couldn't get chemotherapy. Now, no one wanted to treat her.
So now, in addition to running around between five hospitals
of where I'm working, I'm now running around to hospitals
with her to see who would treat her. And I
(26:21):
started having these medical symptoms right and where my legs
were shaking and weak, and I didn't know what was
going on, and I was putting it off. And then
finally when I sought treatment, the neurologist was like, after
all these tests, you're totally fine, And I was like,
but I'm not. I'm experiencing like symptoms, physical physical symptoms
right and to the point where like it was hard
to stand to walk. And what I realized then and
(26:43):
now is that the body expresses what the mind cannot.
And so my body was manifesting all this stress of
what's going to happen to my mom, Is she going
to be okay? Again? That catastrophizing, right, and the mind
going to the worst place scenario, and feeling weak, and
I realized that my home culture was all about we
take care of other people, we are strong, we don't
seek help.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Right.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
So what I realized after going to therapy is that
I'm not saying it was so hard for me to
say me first, or wanting to take up space. It's
not saying me first, it's saying me too, like that
I get to I deserve to have a scene at
the table to prioritize my own wellness, which is not
something I did coming from a South Asian background, you know,
the daughter that handled everything also being a physician, like
I became her physician in some way like general practitioners.
Speaker 5 (27:27):
So I learned a lot.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
And I talk about this in the Pillar of Pride,
which is really about self compassion and how like we
focus so much on self esteem. Yeah, and the problem
with that is that self esteem is only as good
as long as you're performing and you're achieving and you're
doing well, and when things are not going right in
your life, self esteem tanks.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
This was the most surprising part of your book for me. Really. Yeah,
I've been obsessed with confidence for a long time because
I felt like a confident kid and I saw the
difference between my friends who felt confident and those who didn't.
And I felt really grateful for my parents for instilling
that in me. So I couldn't. I was like shocked, like,
why doesn't she like self esteem? What is better than
(28:09):
self esteem? Self worth and self compassion? Right?
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Because self compassion does a few things. It normalizes what
you're feeling. Yeah, right, and so you don't go down
the trap of shame and blame.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
Right.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
And shame is a precursor to depression. And it is
a slope, slippery slope that turns you inwards and says
not just I did a bad thing, It says I'm
a bad person. There's a character assassination involved when they're shame. Guilt,
on the other hand, isn't as bad because it focuses
towards reparation. Okay, I did something bad. What can I
(28:46):
do to fix it? Right? So guilt is better than shame, right,
But in extreme amounts, even guilt isn't great. But what
self compassion says is first thing is observed. What be
mindful of the negative emotions or thoughts that you're having.
And then there's an acceptance part. Right, And I added
the part where you then move forward and you make
a plan. And they've done so many studies on self
compassion that shows over and over again that if you
(29:07):
do this like three step five minute exercise, okay, observe
mindful observation of the negative thoughts except and then what
I love is this idea of common humanity is that
I'm not the only one who's been through this, right,
And they showed that with parents who were just experiencing stress,
by doing this exercise, their anxiety calms down. And also students,
(29:28):
if they're failing an exam, they do this ten minute
compassion exercise like nothing else. They didn't study anymore, they
take the test again, they do better.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Yeah, you changed my mind. I was really grateful for
that mention because I think the self esteem part is
sort of the armor that I had around me, and
through therapy, I've learned way more self compassion. And the
thing that has I think changed my life the most
is that when you give yourself more compassion or you
(29:54):
judge yourself less, you're actually able to give more compassion
to others, judge others less. Yeah, it all starts inward,
and you're giving other people a gift. Yes, you have
been an expert on so many talk shows. What's a
part of your book that people haven't touched on that
you think is really important.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
You know, one thing that I'm really passionate about is
just the idea of where we're going as a society,
and I'm really concerned about it. There's something called the
shallowing hypothesis, which is that our relationships are not going
as deep as they used to.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
I have, so I have a whole thing on this.
Oh tell me, because I'm obsessed with questions. I think
questions are a love language, and it's really about presence.
To me, a question is saying I'd rather be here
with you than anybody else.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
And I think what you're hitting on is this high communication,
low connection world. Yes, yes, And what did you call it?
Speaker 4 (30:46):
The shallowing ye shallowing, shallowing hypothesis, And you know, there's
a lot of research behind it. But they're showing that,
like everything is getting dumbed down. And actually there was
an interesting article that was, like, even our lyrics in songs,
the words have become simpler. And not only are the
words simpler, they're fewer. It's the same repetitive stuff. And
this is not even ai. This is just songwriting. And
(31:06):
also the lyrics are more angry. I thought this was interesting,
and more self obsessed. This is these are the three takeaways.
And I was like, and they're like, this is a
reflection of who we are.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
More angry, more self obsessed, and simpler.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
And simpler, and like just this idea of are like
the mere presence of a phone on a dinner table
already signals that the conversation isn't going to go deep.
It's a predictor because you're already anticipating some sort of interruption,
and there's a lot of anxiety of like, oh my god,
this person has to leave or something's going to happen.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Yes, you feel like they're busy. Maybe I shouldn't be here.
Is this too much for them?
Speaker 5 (31:40):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (31:40):
And so I talk about like how to this idea
of emotional attunement, which is like being in tune with
the person's emotions. So I love that you ask the
questions and.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
You kind of I think sometimes we forget to ask
big questions to people closest to usk, as we ask
how's your day? You know, we're in the minutia.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
I think that the shollowing hypoth is what's happening to
our society and the fact that everything is like contact less, Like, yes,
we have more convenience like the Amazon, Instacar and all
that stuff zoom, but we're missing so many of those
built in interactions like just signing a credit card slip
back in the day. So that's why I like, I
love when I see things coming out of Europe where
they're having walking clubs where people, you know, where the
(32:19):
point is the talking, the point is the social interaction. Here,
I feel like you have to dupe people into they're like, no,
thank you, I don't need social interaction. Yes, but I'll
come for the biking, but don't make me talk or interact,
you know.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yeah, so I think they're missing it. Yeah, they're missing
the point for everybody listening, including myself. What are four
things that practical optimists do?
Speaker 4 (32:40):
So there are four things that practical optimists do every day,
which is make time for the four ms. So those
are mastery. And the key here is that you don't
have to be a master to experience mastery. It could
be a sport, it could be a hobby, but the
idea that you're getting better at something progress yes, and
that creates creating a flow state in your brain where
you're totally immersed in something. So take on something that's
(33:02):
just for you, doesn't have to be for anyone else. Mindfulness,
and this doesn't have to be a sixty minute meditation.
It could literally be one minute. Listen to an app
comap or whatever it is on YouTube. But the key
here is to do something single mindedly. Even if you're
washing dishes, just focus just on that. You can listen
to this podcast while you're doing the dishes, but otherwise,
just be focused. The other one is meaningful engagement and
(33:25):
in whatever way that you want to go deeper. Do
you want to do the fifty two questions? If there
was a podcast that you listen to share it with
people something this made me think of you? You know that,
I think that's really key every day, And to do
like once a week face to face to meet someone
in person, I think that's really key.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
And then movement.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
We don't realize that the benefit of movement in every
aspect of our life, not only cognitive health, bone health,
muscle health, all of that. Right, if you feel like
I don't know what my purpose is, do one workout
session that one workout session is enough to on some level,
decrease anxiety and depression, but also boost yoursel sense of
purpose in life.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
I mean, how awesome is.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
That Every time I've been really sad, all I know
is to turn to to go workout, and I have
my mom to thank for that.
Speaker 5 (34:09):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
But I don't quite understand that link. Why does it? Yeah,
give us it makes me feel purposeful?
Speaker 4 (34:15):
Yes, totally so on one level. Okay, so it's boosting
the endorphins, it's boosting dopamine. You even your body image
changes just from work one workout. You're the same person
from forty five minutes ago, more or less. Yeah, plus
one workout. Right, so you're like, I didn't like suddenly
grow a six pack or what, you know, just one
forty five minute workout, but you feel so productive. You're
(34:38):
like I did something really hard today. And it's that
sense of agency, like I can, I am capable. So
I feel like the takeaway. So these four habits, they
are really like habits unto themselves, but you don't realize
they are also habits that beget other habits because once
you do them, every single day, you connected with a friend, right,
you did the workout, you did some form of meditation
(35:01):
or whatever it is. You got better at a scale
or a hobby, and hey, you can combine all four
of them by pick one class, go with a friend.
You've hit off, checked off, meaningful engagement. You've done the movement.
You can do some mindfulness. If it's yoga mastery, you're
getting better at it. But then you come back in
one hour you could hit all four and then the
rest of your day you're like, I'm an awesome person.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Bring it on.
Speaker 4 (35:21):
So you're going to start opening bills that you've been
putting aside. You're going to open mails. You're going to
start applying for a new job. You might take on
a new venture. You might plan a trip, you might
ask for the promotion, you might ask somebody out on
a date. Like it's going to give it's going to
refuel you.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
It's the objects in motion. Stay in motion.
Speaker 5 (35:36):
Absolutely. I love that you said that.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Okay, what is one thing we can all do today
to increase our optimism?
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Learn to reframe any negative situation. So bringing it back
to me talking about my dad, like, yes, you can
feel sorry for yourself. The world sometimes feels like it's
on fire because it kind of is right, like, with
all that's happening in the world, it's so easy to
get pulled down and drag down in the negativity, and
you can just ask yourself, how can I be a
more compassionate version of myself? How can I give myself grace?
(36:05):
How can I give other people grace?
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Doctor Varma, I knew that this conversation was going to
be wonderful, but I didn't know just how wonderful. Thank
you so much for this.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
Thank you, Thank you so much for having me now.
I'm such a pleasure to meet you in person.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
Doctor Sue Varma is a psychiatrist and cognitive behavioral therapist
and the author of the book Practical Optimism. It's hard
to pick just one takeaway from this conversation because I
think doctor Varmah actually illuminated a lot. But one of
the lessons that stuck with me was not so much
about her work or her research or her study, which
(36:43):
was all fascinating. It was how she chose to live
her life. And it's that optimism is a muscle, not
a mindset. I think that it's something we take for granted.
We think we should just be optimistic, but there's all
these practices and habits we can put in place to
have more agency over it.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
I'm embarrassed to admit how old I was when I
actually learned this and put it into practice. I don't
think it's something that most people grow up learning or
being taught.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
We don't think about it. We just take it for granted.
I think, what do you do to be more optimistic?
Speaker 2 (37:16):
I think it's about gratitude. It's about perspective. I think
my family really helps me with that. And this idea
of remembering when you wanted what you have now finding
small ways to remind yourself of that every day.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
That sounds like gratitude's big for you.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Yeah, I think that makes me more optimistic.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
I love that you mentioned family. I think family makes
me more optimistic too. And seeing older relatives and they've
gone through hard things and they make it through. That
makes me more optimistic. Like having that totem poll almost Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
And friends too, friends that make you laugh.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yeah. She mentions connection a lot, which is important, those girlfriends,
those dinner table conversations that just make everything hard feel
like it's gonna be okay, okay. Tomorrow, we're doing something
a little different. We're putting on a memorial for The
girl Boss. Culture critic Lee Stein helps us lay her
(38:16):
to rest oof.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
I got a lot to say about her. Not Lee Stein,
but the girl Boss.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can
find me your girl Simone boys on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
I'm Danielle robe at Danielle robe on Instagram and TikTok.
That's ro b A.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Y See you tomorrow, folks. Keep looking on the bright side.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Bye besties.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.