The One With the Wide Receivers

In a virtual room full of heroes - Dan Hanzus, Gregg Rosenthal, and Marc Sessler put the next wave of NFL wide receiver under the microscope. Before the heroes talk about the future, they discuss teams that may need to address the WR position in this year's draft (00:30). After the break, Matt Harmon from Reception Perception joins the show for a deep dive into this year's draft class (13:44). 

Note: time codes approximate. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Around the NFL podcast runs the entire route tree poorly.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome to another edition of Around the NFL.

Speaker 3 (00:13):
My name is Dan Hans's got heroes here, Greg Rosenthal,
Mark Sessler very special edition of ATM. It is the
one with the wide receivers in friends style. Boys, We're
gonna dive deep today on what is a very rich
and promising wide receiver class. And I will say this,

(00:36):
greggie wide quarterback is always gonna have the most juice
right naturally, because they are the most important player. They
can change the fortune and direction of a franchise immediately,
the most recent example, of course being CJ. Stroud in Houston. However,
to me, it is wide receivers that that gets my

(00:58):
juice flown in the sense of you want to fix
your offense, you can do it overnight. Because these guys
are now entering the league and so many of them
are instant you know, number two, fringe, number one guys,
some guy, the special ones are immediate superstars. So when
you hear about this class in particular, it feels like

(01:19):
we're gonna get a couple of those this year and
maybe more.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
That's a great point.

Speaker 5 (01:23):
Dan Receivers out of rookie contract before like a CD
lamb until he's gonna get paid whatever he's going to
get paid this offseason is such a ridiculous value. And
I think the contracts top right receivers are getting there
kind of reflecting that after quarterback, if you had to
pick one position that you think is the most valuable,

(01:45):
it's either left tackle, receiver or edge, but it might
be number one true number one receiver, and there's only
so many of those, and that's a bit of a
flip compared to what teams thought about, you know, ten
to fifteen years ago.

Speaker 6 (01:59):
I also like, I wonder if what we're experiencing with
this draft class, you know, and it certainly stands out
wideer serier wise from from others they've been, they've been,
they're getting better and better, and it's like, is this
at some point the new norm? Because I think like
the one starting to watch these guys, like so many
of them, like usually it's like, oh, he's really good

(02:19):
at this, but he's got to work on this with
NFL coaches to kind of get up to stuff. So
many of them look completely prepared to start right away,
and we aren't that far away from a time when
like you could draft a wide out outside of like
the top one, two or three, and they're kind of
ghosts until season two or even three sometimes. But these
guys look like ready to roll immediately, a big junk
of them.

Speaker 5 (02:40):
They're out there doing those seven on sevens and and
the quarter you know, quarterback camps and all that stuff,
and they're practicing on air. And it's why I take
exception to the money drop. I can run an out
route walk. It's Walker's favorite thing in the world. To
go over to the middle school. They got a nice
football field which has some open and we're practicing quite
a bit where throwing routes and I break off that route.

Speaker 4 (03:03):
I can get off press coverage.

Speaker 6 (03:05):
I mean, Greg, what if you have like a six
to two hundred and something pound cornerback jamming you at
the line, how's your out out route looking?

Speaker 4 (03:11):
Then I'm just gonna duck under them. I kind of
I do this little movie.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yes, slip it. Okay, you're undersize, you're forty five years old.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
Like, let's know our limitations, Bud, Like you can't play
on the outside, you'd get man handled.

Speaker 4 (03:24):
The route tree is complete, though, you know.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
The idea of like again, you've you've been down on
Hunter Renfro in the past, like that's kind of your ceiling, bud,
Like that's what you have to operate in that realm.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
I don't want to be the bear of bad news.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
Like I'm an inline tight end blocker, like I know,
and maybe hit me at the at the in the
red zone or a little misdirection, but.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
I see at least five aj green.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
You know.

Speaker 6 (03:49):
I mean to say that Hunter Renfro is Greg's ceiling.
It's like the ceiling three stories up on a building
from where Greg is or any I know.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
I'm just trying to like rein them in somewhat to
saying putting in some work lately?

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Are you running these routes against your your held your
son again?

Speaker 4 (04:05):
Too much time?

Speaker 5 (04:06):
We got that football, you know that football where it's
got the routes on the football. So if I love
that check, you know, what's what's a five route?

Speaker 6 (04:14):
Now?

Speaker 4 (04:14):
There's no defenders there?

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (04:16):
And by the way, coming up just a little bit,
Matt Harmon, he of the reception perception fame, and we'll
talk them out about what that means and which players
are really jumping out to him. But before we kind
of get to Matt.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
I mean every team can use a number one, right,
even the teams that have a number one.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
What's better than one? Number one? Two number ones?

Speaker 3 (04:39):
It's the most second most supporting position, a backup quarterback,
and the third most The third is the backup back
up quarterback.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Charlie Casserly, where are you, buddy, Greg?

Speaker 3 (04:50):
Who's a team or teams that really jump out to
you that are going to be all over this wide
receiver class when you look at what they currently have
in house.

Speaker 5 (04:58):
There were so many when we did this, like I
wrote down no less than fourteen. It's crazy, like as
many good receivers have come in so many needs. But
Baltimore is one that I think is high profile that
hasn't gotten a lot of attention. Like Zay Flowers is
not a one, Rashad Bateman is not a two. Aglar
would probably be best as a four. So they're not

(05:19):
gonna find a one most likely in this class. But man,
they're counting a lot on Rashad Bateman right now, and
maybe they'll pick up a veteran at some point, but
that is a high profile team and just staying in
that division too. You kind of you look at Cincinnati.
The most Cincinnati move in the world is just replacing
Tyler Boyd one for one in this draft with the
slot receiver.

Speaker 4 (05:36):
I could see that happening. And then Pittsburgh they have
one receiver.

Speaker 5 (05:39):
It's George Pickens, who hasn't exactly been the most reliable
player in the world. And they're they're two and three.
Is I don't even know who quit? They really don't
have a two or three. It's Qus Watkins, it's Calvin Austin,
it's Van Jefferson. So that division, all those teams need receivers.
The Bounds are the only team they look pretty solid.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, cycling back to to Baltimore, I trust the Ravens
in so many ways in terms of roster building, but
they've proven time and time again that they they can't
find a number one wide receiver. If they're franchise, is
life depended on it? Not that Zay Flowers is a
bad pick.

Speaker 4 (06:12):
I know you're a good pick.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
I think you're right that he has the ceiling to be,
you know, even a Pro Bowl player, But he's maybe
not the number one you mentioned Rashad Bateman. He was
also a first round pick. Is there a third first
round pick. Who's the other name he threw out there,
Nelson a.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Philly.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
He was another high for a high round pick. Odell
Beckham they brought in last year thinking he would fill
a role and that didn't really work out either. So
would the Ravens go back to the well once again
with the kind of the one blind spot when it
comes to real left identify talent you've got.

Speaker 6 (06:45):
You brought in Todd Mounkin and they they you know,
correctly addressed wide out a year ago, but then you've
lost like Odell Beckham's gone, and like you're kind of
back where you started from, and like this is the
draft class to do it. I think there's a couple
of teams, like, you know, it's a little more overt,
but I see like coaches getting canned if they don't
figure out what they're doing at wide out. In some situations,

(07:05):
like the Arizona Cardinals, they've got literally they've got a
fringed number two type of guy and nobody else, and
it's like they're in a weird place because it's like
everyone points to them as the team that's going to
trade with the Vikings to get Minnesota up to number
four to take their quarterback. But then it's like, Okay,
you pass on Marvin Harrison Junior, when like, the most
important player in your franchise history in the modern day

(07:27):
age was Larry Fitzgerald. You can go get that player
a version of that player again. It's like I think
Cardinals fans they're really split and they're divided on like, wait,
do we trade these do we acquire picks and get
lesser players, or do we get this guy who can
change the franchise for fifteen years twelve?

Speaker 4 (07:44):
I'm with you.

Speaker 5 (07:45):
They all this talk that like, oh, the Bears should
they take Roma Dunes at Nins, Like he's not getting
there because there's too many teams in front that will
be taking receivers and the Cardinals are one of them.
And if the Bears do have a chance they can
they they should because they need to receive. They've got
They've got DJ Moore, They've got Keenan Allen who's a
thirty two year old on a one year contract in
nothing else.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
And I look at the AFC East and the Dolphins
are all set. They're loaded.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
They have maybe the best one two punch in the
league with Tyreek Hill and Waddle.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
But the Bills, their struggles.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
To have a real wide receiver room were well documented
before they traded Stefan Diggs, so you would think they
will be all over one of these prospects we're going
to talk about with Matt Harmon in a bit. The
Patriots are a team that is screaming out for some
juice and who is Who's it now? They're gonna most
likely target a quarterback at the top of the class,

(08:39):
but they could use wide receiver help, and you imagine
they're going to go hard at this group. And then
the Jets, who have Garrett Wilson, who is a budding
superstar entering his third year who could be a monster
if Aaron Rodgers stays on the field. Mike Williams was
I thought a nice move to bring him in, But
you can't assume Mike Williams is going to stay healthy
coming off in ACL and all his issues. The Jets

(09:01):
sitting where they are in the draft, like, I'm of that.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
I'm of the.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
Thought like if Joe Alt is there, who's as flawless
as an offensive lineman prospects as you'll see, if he
is off the board by the time the Jets pick
at what eight, I believe I'm going and grabbing one
of the ten, is it? Sorry, I'm grabbing one of
these wide receivers because they're gonna one of these big
guys will be there because of all the teams that

(09:27):
are picking a quarterback at the top of the top ten.
So that's a team that jumps out to me like
that would be you want to get as somebody who's
obviously been struggling a little bit as a Jets fan
after last year's harrowing season. If you pair Garrett Wilson
with one of these gifted young players and then everything
else they have Breese Hall and Mike Williams is a three.

(09:50):
I mean, you can really start to get excited. So
we'll see if they go that route.

Speaker 5 (09:56):
Yeah, well, Holts are a team at fifteen that I
think are a nice spot. Like Brian miss Junior to
them is one of my favorite matches. But because of
what you just said, and because of going through the
top ten and thinking like, well, which team doesn't need
a receiver here, I kind of think he'll go higher
than people expect and we'll get to him a little
more later. But like the Titans, they could still use
a receiver. I know, everyone just thinks it's tackle tackle tackle.

(10:18):
They could absolutely use a receiver on that team. Still,
the Falcons could absolutely use a ride receiver, like even
teams later in the draft. Not that they're going to
trade up for these top guys, but like the forty
nine Ers have to think about the future of replacing
either Deebo or Ayuk. The Lions, they love Aman Ross
Saint Brown, but he's an inside guy, and yeah outside
it's like you're hope and Jamison Williams works out, it's

(10:39):
Josh Reynolds. Like they need receivers. The Panthers are still
shortened weapons. They're just like so many teams. To me,
that's why I just think there's gonna be what twelve
receivers maybe go in the first two rounds. It's gonna
be a lot.

Speaker 6 (10:50):
But you can't get this far and not mentioned like
the Chargers, who, like, I mean, this offseason has been
a disaster on that front. I think like it's one
of those times where what the draft provides couldn't match
more perfectly with the way football operates right now. You
don't have to it's not nineteen eighty six. You don't
have like one wide receiver and a number two and
a bunch of tight ends and fullbacks.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
You need four or five of these dudes.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
Not to mention, we're coming off a somewhat me year
from wide receiver in twenty three, So those teams that
have been looking for wide receiver helped weren't able to
get it in most cases last year. So now it
goes down that road, and I thought you were going
to go in a different direction, Mark in the AFC West.
We cannot end this part of the conversation without mentioning
the defending champion Chiefs, who picking thirty two, who made

(11:34):
a move and got Hollywood Brown, a move I wasn't
in love with personally, and it seems so obvious to
me that there's another move coming. My question is do
they sit where they are or do they really go
aggressively up the board and try to get one of
these big boys, because that would be the talk of
draft night if they do get aggressive, right, anybody else

(11:56):
want to throw out another team?

Speaker 5 (11:59):
You could just do that whole division because the Broncos,
like the Bronco sneaky, need everything. But they have Courtland
Sutton and then just a lot of question marks tim
Patrick Mims. I mean, it's not the worst receiver group
of the world, but again, there's so few of these
teams that you couldn't see like a second round pick
at receiver helping.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
I waited so long for it not to be a
conversation anymore, but now that it's here and gone, I
miss it. Like, but you know, Courtland Sutton and Jerry Judy,
they could be dynamic.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
Going to miss that conversation?

Speaker 5 (12:34):
Are you You can still talk about him in Cleveland?
You know Jerry Judy, He's he's the long term future
as of Cleveland.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Are we cool with the Browns? Mark with them?

Speaker 1 (12:43):
No?

Speaker 6 (12:44):
Because I think what they've done is is kind of interesting,
Like Judy and Elijah more like represent players that others
that haven't had breakout success on any level have been frustrating.
You can see it a little potential, but other teams
gave up on them. Yeah, and Amari Cooper is getting
up there in age. I thought he had a great
year last year. But like that team has to feel

(13:06):
us all in with their financial situation everything else as
anyone out there. But they don't have a lot of
draft picks, but I would absolutely want them to get
a wide receiver.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
You know who really helps.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
Them in that realm as a playmaker, that David Njoku.
It's quite a player. Mark, He's a good player. I've
come around on that.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
All right.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
With that said, let's take a quick break and when
we come back, we will have Matt Harmon to break
down some of the young wide receiving talent about to
flood into the league.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
And all those teams we just talked.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
About, many of them, well all of them are gonna
be jockeying for these guys and we'll find out in
a couple of weeks who gets him.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
We'll be right back to the answer. God touch down
Harrison again?

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Why seven the occasiones Corman Harrison Junior Flowers heading to
the end?

Speaker 4 (13:54):
Ze man? Is he devastating it with a count? That's
brock Powers.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
There's the shot to it. Tuesday.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
My own mind, my weak neighbors is just lighting up
this morning.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Thomas just trad sweed from Brian Thomas. That's pretty with that, so.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Welcome back.

Speaker 3 (14:23):
Yes, it's the one with the wide receivers episode, and
we just talked about what teams are going to be
aggressive on draft weekend targeting wide receivers the teams that
make sense. But now let's talk about the wide receivers
themselves that are entering the league. And it's a potentially
historic wide receiver class. And we think wide receiver boys,

(14:46):
and you think the NFL, and you think about route
trees and you and you think about the receptions, but
you think about the perception, don't you as well. Matt Harmon,
welcome back to Around the NFL.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
Oh Man, Dan, thank you for that intro. I got
to think about stealing that for like the start of
our own podcast. That is that is pretty good. So
I'll have my lawyers talk to your lawyers and maybe
we'll come to sort of an agreement on on buying
that ip.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
There no problem working a little bit blue to make
a point.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
Matt, of course, a former colleague of ours at NFL
Media was a fantasy guy, and as he was a
fantasy guy, he created the mythology Reception Perception, which has
its own website which you could check out, and Matt
is all over that and also of course does writing
and analysis for Yahoo. So Matt, welcome back to the show.

(15:39):
And it's always good to see a friend. And yes,
even though you said it before we came on. I'm
now going to steal that little bit of pre show banter.
You've moved away from the swoosh hair style. Then I
saw you when we lived together in El Segundo before
you move back east. You said I'm a hack guy
now and that surprised me, and quite frankly, as a
fellow follicle guy, disappointed me. And now you got the

(16:00):
Travis Kelcey fade. So it looks like you're not a
hat guy after all. I would say, I'm like a
fifty to fifty.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
You know, when the weather is nice and you know
you're doing a lot of sweating, it makes it's nice
to have the hat. That's good. That's that's a nice call,
you know. I mean, look, Dan, see you're a gifted
hair guy or follicle guy in your words, and you're
wearing the hat right now, so I mean, you know,
it's it's good to be able to do both. Versatility
as you get older is important.

Speaker 6 (16:23):
It's not an incredible upset that we've spent the first
forty percent of this interview talking about Dan's hair.

Speaker 5 (16:32):
Also, you're we're too old to do the Travis Kelsey
at least I was speaking for myself.

Speaker 4 (16:36):
I'm much too old, but you pull it off.

Speaker 5 (16:38):
You look like you could be the unathletic third brother
of the Kelsey.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
I mean, I think I'll take minor offense to the
unathletic part because I do like to say that I'll
work out.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
I'm a gym guy as well.

Speaker 4 (16:53):
But at the same time too Hall of famers, Matt,
you know.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
Well, listen, if I hit my peak a little earlier,
I think I could have gotten there. No, but in
all seriousness, I just want to say, for the record, yes,
I don't want to call it the Travis Kelce. You
guys can call it the Travis Kelce, but officially it's
a It's not the Travis Kelce. Just just just to
get that on the record.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
What is it? What is what is it?

Speaker 3 (17:15):
The Because my haircut is the modified gentleman's contour? Famously,
what is yours called? It's just a fade, just your
old fade. Okay, okay, but enough Honkin' let's focus up.
Hair is great, but these wide receivers my own harmon
And can you give people that maybe are not familiar

(17:35):
with the reception perception model, like how you came to
study the game this way, wide receivers and playmakers this way,
and what it what it tells you, And then we'll
get into some of the players in this draft class,
which obviously have to be very exciting for what you do.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, wide receiver business is booming right now, that's for sure.
But what reception perception is is the methodology that I
created around like twenty thirteen, twenty four fourteen. Twenty fourteen
was the first year that I tracked league wide data
with reception perception or close to league wide data. I'm
not charting every single player in the league, and certainly
not every single college prospect, that's for sure. But what
I do is I going over eight game sample for

(18:13):
NFL or college prospects when the film is available, and
chart every single route they run, where they line up,
really try to give you a view of what a
wide receiver is doing in isolation, because all those years ago,
my thought was, you know, you're lucky if you're a receiver.
You get like eight to ten targets a game, but
you're running, you know, thirty plus routes a game. You're
playing like sixty plus snaps a game. If you're a

(18:33):
true number one guy, and we all know the quarterback
or wide receiver production is so inherently dependent on quarterbacks
depending on pass protection, is dependent on like the environment
that they're in. And even we know this more now,
even maybe more than we did ten eleven years ago,
that a wide receiver is not a wide receiver, right, Like,
these guys are so different, even if they all have
wr next to their names, so reception perception through that

(18:55):
charting data that I'm the only one doing the charting.
You know, James Co, my business partner, would love to
maybe take some of that work my hands. Yeah, he'd
love to add some more people to the team. But
to me, you got to pry the charting away from
like my cold dead hands. Man. That's why I love
to do. This is actually the the grunt work of it.
But through that charting data tries to give you a
real picture of who a wide receiver is in isolation

(19:16):
away from their production, you know, for a variety of
different reasons to try to categorize these guys, try to
understand them within their roles and obviously from a you know,
for fantasy fans, you know, you want to try to
spot a breakout before it's coming.

Speaker 6 (19:28):
I was going to ask you real quick, like, have
you the same way you know, PFF started their own
way to you know, track mythologize like play like have
you had NFL teams or scouts of that ilk reach
out to you about about what you.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
Do every now and again.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
If there are any NFL folks wanting to you know,
pay me a bag that listen to this show, i'd
gladly do you guys know this as big as big
big media bros like consulting work, That's where it's at,
and I'd hire me as your consultant.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
I'd love to do it.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
I don't know if that would require me taking you know,
information off the site to my loyal subscribers, but really,
I'm a man of the people, Mark. I'm out there
for the folks that can afford a you know, thirty
dollars subscription to learn about wide receivers. Hey, if it
works out, it works out.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
Whenever I meet somebody and they tell me they're a consultant,
they're almost always very wealthy.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
So that's something I want to get into one day,
all right. So with that in mind, let's get into it.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
And we kind of built up the atn Heroes here
some superlatives, and we're going to tee you up and
you could tell us which one of these prospects, because
we're hearing what three out of the top eight picks
maybe to start the draft could be wide receivers. Maybe
even better than that, we'll see. But it's not just
the big three. There's a lot of talent and stress.
So let's start here. The twenty twenty four Reception Perception

(20:45):
Man Crush Award winner.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
Is Oh, I'll just start off with Roma Dunza there,
because to me, I don't watch college football on Saturdays.
You know, I'm a happily married man, and I already
ruined like three days of the week with nfell work.
It would be kind of hard to justify to missus
harmon like I'm gonna ruin one more day of the
week by watching a bunch of college football. It's something
that doesn't really have anything to do with my job.

(21:09):
So I'm not super familiar with these players before watching
them for the draft, other than obviously I knew Marvin
Harrison Junior's name and knew the hype around that particular player,
So coming into this process, I didn't really know anything
about these guys. But the first time I put on
the film of Romadoonsea, I mean, whatever superlatives you have
for this exercise, boys, I could probably say Rome's name
for most of them, because I think he is just

(21:29):
so good at everything. I think he's an extremely clean prospect.
He lines up on the line of scrimmage as a
true X receiver, which is not something we could say
about last year's draft class. Right like last year's draft class,
it was a lot of guys like Jackson Smith and
Jigba z A Flowers, even Jordan Addison, these guys that
were gonna play off the ball and be more of
the kind of complimentary players. All three of the top

(21:50):
receivers in this draft class are not of that ill
calthough Malik Neighbors doesn't really line up as that true X,
but specifically Rome, like he's just out there doing NFL things,
running NFL routes. I love the way he gets off
the line of scrimmag against press coverage. I think he's
a great separator. Really kind of underrated as a separator
because he has all these contested targets on his resume,
But a lot of that is the fact he's running
downfield routes. He has a quarterback, he's willing to trust

(22:12):
him in those tight areas. To me, he just looks
like kind of a I had did prospect comparisons like
aggressive and cautious comps for a Yahoo video series this year.
My cautious comp for him was Alan Robinson, like another
guy that just you can line him up at X
back in his prime and you could win there. You know,
it's kind of short to intermediate, but also be a
contested catch threat. My aggressive comp for him was DeVante Adams,

(22:35):
another guy that you know wins at all three levels.
Great route runner, nice separator, pretty like a solid tackle
breaker after the catch, and obviously someone you could throw
to in contest the situations like, hey, hey, you funnel
thirty percent of your offense to this guy and you
never think twice about it. I do think at his peak,
Rome could be that guy.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
Here's a comp from Daniel Jeremiah. He sees Lary Fitzgerald
as a comp coming out of college, which is obviously
high praise too. That's a Hall of Fame re mark.

Speaker 4 (22:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (23:00):
I was just gonna say watching him, the contested catches
stand out. I feel like he had defenders in his
bee hive and he'd come down with the ball. But
also a lot of it is with these college guys,
like you've got these quarterbacks like paired with Michael Pennix Junior,
I felt like they had like ten thousand catches or
accombinations that were like forty yards downfield where it just
was like he could do no wrong, and like, I'm

(23:20):
with you. I came away just kind of in love
with this guy. So I love what you said that.

Speaker 5 (23:25):
Yeah, there's so many you mentioned the extraceiver even even
the ones further on and we'll get to them. It
seems like in compared to the last couple of classes,
there's like six seven guys that you could see as
number ones. The thing I was worried about going into it,
and you can tell me how the reception perception worked
out for Roma Dunes. He was like, whenever the first
thing you hear is contested catch guy that's been a
bit almost been in like a red flag for players

(23:47):
in the last handful of years. Drake London's a bit
of an exception. I think he's kind of made his
style of play work in the NFL and he's gotten better.
But you're seeing a Donze maybe a little more subtle
with his route running, a little more versatile than maybe
just positioning him. And he's kind of turned into wide
receiver three. We'll see if the NFL agrees with that
or not. But he's kind of landed as a three.

(24:11):
Even though at the beginning of the process, guys like
Jeremiah maybe had him as high or higher than Harrison
or Neighbors. It doesn't feel like a lot of people
believe he's gonna go ahead of them. You seem to
think he's a little more versatile, though, and you would
put him ahead of him, would you.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
I had a long kind of internal debate with myself,
you know, my war room up here, me and the
two dogs. We had a long internal debate of like
who was the wide receiver one in this class? Which
to me, I think I was close to making it
Rome I eventually maybe just broke a few ties in
favor of Marvin Harrison. But Rome is the second guy
to me, and Malik Neighbors is a third guy. Now,

(24:47):
my mission statement with this draft class, these top three
guys in particular, like, these guys are all so close,
they're all great prospects. To me, they're all tier one
prospects on my stacked board for the last four classes.
So like, you like this guy with this guy that's
with me, you want to take this trait over that
trade also fine with me. It's kind of reminiscent. You
brought up Drake London. To me, this is reminiscent a

(25:07):
little bit to that draft class where like you could
put Drake number one, you could have put Garrett Wilson
number one, You could have put Chris Alave number one,
and I would have been fine with that. Ultimately I
went with that year kind of the route running craft
guy which was Chris Olave and then you know, then
Drake London, then Garrett Wilson. To me, I think I'd
probably flip that up now that they're in the NFL.
But I see this group as very similar to that.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
It could.

Speaker 1 (25:28):
It kind of depends what type of player and what
number one receiver you value in terms of a traits perspective.
But yeah, like on the separation part of it, it
was a very similar exercise with with Drake London where
you actually had to watch him on film and see
the routes developed to like, no, this is a guy
that is getting open early in the routes and maybe
gets thrown into some of these contested situations. Like Terry

(25:51):
mclaurin's always kind of high in the NFL in terms
of percentage of contested targets. But I don't find any
issues with his separation. I think he's just played with
some erratic quarterback playing. And Michael Pennix is a good quarterback,
but he is a little bit of an erratic passer
down the field as well.

Speaker 5 (26:05):
All Right, I'll throw it out you and look, rum
could have been the answer to this, but now you're
gonna have to pick someone else.

Speaker 4 (26:11):
All Right.

Speaker 5 (26:12):
The wide receiver in this class that would have been
a number one would have been the number one receiver
in last year's class.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yeah, you could go with any of the top three guys.
I think you could honestly make an argument that even
like Brian Thomas and JSN kind of have similar grades
in terms of last year's draft class. But I'll say
Malik Neighbors as the obvious guy here. Another one that
to me is my wide receiver three, but easily with
a bullet would have had like a tier break between
him and any of the players last year. Neighbors is

(26:41):
very fun. He's he's like an easy player to love
because I think it takes like three plays to see, oh,
this guy's different from an explosiveness standpoint. Like I mentioned
that twenty two class, I'll bring it up here again
that he's kind of the Garrett Wilson of that draft
class to me, where he's a little bit of like
a wild horse route runner. He's not the most refined player,
but he's so explos with the ball in his hands.
And if he just continues to develop, you have a

(27:04):
lot of confidence, just like I think Garret Wilson has
developed into a true number one at the NFL level.
I think neighbors could do that too.

Speaker 6 (27:09):
One thing noticing watching him is like I love the
seeing the body language of the poor individual that's forced
to try to cover him, because it's the kind of
like the way that you watch a sprinter at the
end of a race where he's bending his upper body
forward to try to hit the tape first, and these
cornerbacks like are losing control of their bodies and like
he's catching past us nine or ten yards ahead of them,

(27:31):
And I just think he's like the kind of guy
that could like break someone's spirit by the end of
the first quarter in the NFL.

Speaker 5 (27:37):
He seems so reliable but like so flashy at the
same time. I mean it maybe it is the LSU
thing and I'm just a simpleton, but he really did
kind of remind me of Odell or like or like
a little bigger Steve Steve Smith type, where he's just
got such a natural feel as a runner and he
has great hands. So I hear you that, Like maybe
he's a little rougher around the edges running routes or something,

(27:59):
but he just seems very easy to project in like
any of these systems that like, he doesn't need to
even get any better to just like immediately just put
a thousand yards plus up there.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
The only thing with him that's different from these top
two receivers is he does play out of the slot
the most, which I mean, who cares, it's not that
big of a deal, but fifty point three percent of
his sampled snaps in reception perception came from the slot.
He was more of like a split between on the
ball or off the ball. But that's totally fine, Like
you can funnel your offense through that player. But it's
similar to kind of DJ Moore coming out of the

(28:32):
NFL Draft, where the guy but kind of like a
two X version of that type of player where he
was rough around the edges from a route running perspective,
but he was explosive and you could see that he
was going to develop that in the league. That's why
I'm not, like, I'm not docking him out of my
first tier of prospects because he's just the least refined
of these three players. He's also like not even twenty
one yet. I don't think he turns twenty one until

(28:54):
after he's drafted. So he's a guy that you do
feel pretty good about that growth. But like you said, Greg,
his explosive and his ability to break tackles, which in
my opinion is easily the best in this class, and
I think it's actually the best of like the last
three classes. His ability to make plays in the open
field like that gives you like a floor for any
if you're a team like the Giants, which I know
it's weird with the Giants because they a lot of

(29:16):
things are weird with the Giants, but they don't have
they have a lot of like these slot guys, right,
like guys who've played mostly inside, and Neighbors is a
mostly inside guy at LSU, but it feels like they
need someone to just say to Danny Dimes or maybe
Drew Locke at some point, like this is your first read,
he's gonna run a crossing route or a dig route
something like that. You just get the ball to him

(29:36):
and worry about the rest later. It feels like a
good way to start to kind of build a foundation
on your offense.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
That's the Jets offense with Garret Wilson the last two
years basically.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yes, yeah, correct, which is why I kind of see
those two guys similarly.

Speaker 6 (29:50):
All Right, here's one for you. I'm not Marvin Harrison, Junior,
Malik Neighbors or Roma Denze, but I have the best
chance to put up number one type numbers as a rookie.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
If we're just talking numbers depending on depending on where
he's drafted. I kind of think it's got to be
Brian Thomas, who's the consensus wide receiver for He's my
wide receiver for in this draft class. I don't know
if he has he definitely has the ceiling of a
number one, but I think he probably projects best as
like a high end number two. He only runs like

(30:24):
three routes. I mean, in his reception perception sample, sixty
seven percent of his routes were a slant, a curl,
or a go route.

Speaker 4 (30:31):
And that's it. It doesn't mean, it doesn't mean it
can't learn it.

Speaker 5 (30:34):
How can we kind of learn that with wide receivers
in these weird systems that they can learn it when
they get there.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
I was just gonna say, like, and you, But at
the same time, his success rate on a wide variety
of other routes is really high. Like, I think he
does show the skills to expand that route tree, but
it gives you kind of like if you look back
at DK Metcalf's rookie season, sixty seven percent of the
routes that he ran as a rookie was a slant,
a curl, or a go route. And so I think
that sort of development plan for Brian Thomas. But if

(31:02):
he lands with the right offense, like I think about
the Colts at fifteen, make a lot of sense. Like
you have a guy in Michael Pittman that you're gonna
throw the ball to a ton in the short to
intermediate area, and then you have Brian Thomas just kind
of ripping you on the routes that you wanted Alec
Pierce to win on. That makes a lot of sense
to me just from a pure numbers perspective. I think
he can put up like number one numbers and then
maybe eventually grow into that player.

Speaker 5 (31:24):
He's the guy I was hoping you would say for
the last one, because I don't have many draft takes
where I'm personally like a like a student who is
just studying for the test at the very last minute
and then like is over confident going into it. But
my one over confident take is like, you can't take
Brian Thomas Junior too high if I didn't know anything
about it, I'm just sort of basic. If I didn't

(31:45):
know anything about where these guys were, and you just
watch Brian Thomas's six games, You're like, wait, why is
he not at top five?

Speaker 4 (31:52):
Pick? Why is he not at like cause his stop.

Speaker 5 (31:55):
And start and his ability to move so smoothly at
that size is just insane, Like it's just as insane.
I kind of see his ceiling like in a perfect
world where it all went well, is like just as
high as those other guys. And I get it, Like
he used to be a basketball player. He ran a
limited amount of routes that you know, some of these

(32:15):
deep threats from the SEC, like like Jmo having totally
worked out, but a guy that huge, that can run
like that, that can stop like that, Like he looked
like Nico Collins to me, looks now and Nico Collins
is great now. And I was like, if he looks
that good now and he's this age, and like his
testing is off the charts, like he could be Nico
Collins plus plus, which is which is like a top

(32:38):
ten receiver. So like I I wouldn't be shocked if,
like if the Falcons or one of those teams takes
him in the top ten just because of the way
he looks. If a Dunze goes early, like I don't
see why he wouldn't go against ahead of some of
these defensive players or tackles too.

Speaker 4 (32:54):
But maybe I'm stupid.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
You're not stupid, Greg, But I think the good the
good things Thomas. The good thing with Brian Thomas is
you also saw him get better throughout the year, right,
Like I think a lot of analytic models will ding
him because he only has this one big year of production.
But that production number one was earned and number two,
like you saw him on film, get better, like the

(33:17):
September routes are not as good as the December routes.
Like the later games, He's getting better and better. He's
already making that development, that projection that you kind of
want him to make. And I just love the idea
of him across from a competent number one, so that
Atlanta spot makes a lot of sense to where you're
getting the most out of him. And then you know
Drake London's or Michael Pittman from the example that I
gave earlier.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
All Right, everybody, let's stop down for one minute. We'll
take a break, and then we'll continue on with Matt Harmon.
All right, we're back. So along those similar lines to
Mark's questions, so we've now hit on the mount rushmore
here if you will, of prospects at this position. Let's
talk superlative for sleeper stud So who's flying under the
radar here a bit as a twenty twenty four. I'm

(33:59):
not saying super or number one wide receiver, but a
guy that steps in and is an immediate difference maker,
like a Nico Collins, and then he develops and turns
into a star, like, who is the difference maker that
people aren't talking about.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
I really like Ricky Piersaw is kind of my favorite
guy that's in a few tiers down fun player. I
think he's a really good route runner. To me, he
seems like a guy that's just going to be a
quarterback's best friend very early on, because he's really good
on like slant routes and flat routes and these sort
of just routes around the line of scrimmage. But he's
got legit juice down the field. He's a guy that

(34:33):
you see on film play all three positions, so you
see him a little bit at X. I think his
most likely home in the NFL is going to be
as a flanker slot, like a guy that moves between
those two positions, someone that I think has that sort
of floor that you're talking about early on Dan where
he just gets open against man's own coverage. It's a
little more average around press, but again there are ways
to hide that. You get him working around the line

(34:54):
of scrimmage. He's a quarterbacks best friend. He's always at
the right landmarks. He's always at the right place in
terms of where you want him from a route running perspective,
but I do see the upside for him to develop
into like one hundred and twenty type of target player
in year two, year three. I think that there's a
chance that he goes higher than people think, just because
he checks a lot of like athletic measurements as well
that you really want to see. So he's been a

(35:15):
guy that outside of the first couple tiers of this class,
that I've really gravitated to from.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
I don't know, a.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
Sleeper perspective, because more people are talking about him now
than they were at the beginning of the process, but
definitely a player.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
I like.

Speaker 5 (35:26):
It's the draft process. Everyone talks about everyone. It's un right.
I'm almost disappointed though, that he was your answer, because
he's really one of only two options for my next category,
which is just white guy that Mark is going to
fall in love with. There's really only two guys, probably
towards the top of the draft unless.

Speaker 6 (35:47):
I yeah, mcgreg it's the other guys, so you set
the table. Well, oh okay, I'm just well, it's up
to Matt though to guess.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
There's no way the guy isn't Ladd McConkie. I mean,
there's just no way.

Speaker 4 (35:57):
Gotta be. It's gotta be.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
But the the great But of course, but the best
part about Lad McConkie.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
Somewhere Zack Zenner just got like a shiver and he's
like someone is thinking of me.

Speaker 4 (36:08):
Wasn't Zach Center was in the news for something recently,
like in.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
Two thousand and six during the preseason.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Maybe now, I swear to god I saw something about
like he went back to school or started a business
or something. Yeah, I'll deep dive that for you, Mark
and send you the article after the show. But yeah,
Lad McConkie, the great part about him is that he's
not just your typical like lunch pale, gritty, white slot receiver.
The guy legitimately wins on deep routes and like actually,

(36:35):
in terms of reception perception, the game sampled here he
was more of an outside receiver. You saw him play
a lot more. Now he does struggle against press coverage.
He does struggle against in like contesta situations. But again,
those are things you can get around from like a
deployment perspective. You can move him inside. You can also
move him off the ball, like so many of these
receivers now I think are going to have their worlds
opened up by how much motion is going on in

(36:57):
the NFL right now, especially these like full speed motion
that a lot of smart coaching staffs are using. So
McConkey could be a guy there, But I think he
runs the best out routes in the class. Like just
pure I'm selling vertical routes and then I break to
the outside. That's Lad maconkey. To me, his success rate
on out routes is among the best in the class.
It's among the best of the last few years. So
when I was trying to think of like a cop

(37:17):
for him and go beyond the gritty white slot receiver cop,
because I don't really think that's how he he plays.
I like went into the RP database and looked like
who has some of the best out routes since twenty fourteen,
and Tyler Lockett popped up as like a comparison player,
And I think that's sort of the kind of the
bucket that Lad fits into. If he can play inside,
he can also play outside, and he's more of a
speed based slot receiver when you do line him up.

Speaker 6 (37:38):
There, I've got one for you, Like if you Matt
Harmon had to write like a Shakespearean sonnet to you know,
not one of the stars that we've talked about, but
like a girl next door type of wide receiver. That's
a weird way to put it, but just like a
little under the radar, like who would you pen the
sonnet too?

Speaker 2 (37:54):
And of your affections?

Speaker 1 (37:56):
Uh pearsall would have been an option, but you know,
I'm intimidated by the leg tattoo, So I'll go with
Malik Washington, who actually went to school in Charlottesville, nearer
where I live now in Virginia Beach. Guys, just like
a fun player I don't know what the ceiling is for,
you know, a smaller receiver like this that really only
has like one year of major production. But I mean
he's got fantastic hands. He breaks a ton of tackles,

(38:19):
like he plays bigger than his size. So if I
was writing kind of that sonnet to a player, I
definitely think i'd pick Malik Washington as kind of the
deeper sleeper.

Speaker 5 (38:27):
Here it shows how hard that this class is crazy,
because it feels like, you know, six receivers could go
in the first round or something, but it almost feels
like there's like nine or ten guys who could be fire.
There's like five or six guys who could be that
fifth or six, and there's not really a consensus who
it's gonna be, And then that means there could be

(38:48):
like ten to thirteen in the second through two rounds,
Like Malik Washington is not a name I've even heard,
as probably in the first three rounds, there's like fifteen
to seventeen guys, and it really seems like there's a
lot of disagreement where there could be ten to twelve
guys that could go anywhere from like pick twenty five
to pick seventy five, which is just crazy in terms

(39:10):
of what flavor. Like if you're running a team, which
guy who's athletic do you not really trust? Like an
awesome athlete that maybe is in that bucket of like
he could go pretty high, but that you're not really feeling.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
I haven't really had that well, I don't really have
any like true full field athlete. I do think that
the Xavier worthy for two to one, the speed part
of it, if that if that pushes him up in
the first round, that's gonna make me just a little
bit nervous. I think he's much better at doing like
real wide receiver things than some of these other kind
of smaller speed based receivers. But he's just not good

(39:47):
at contest the situations. He's a guy that's gonna have
to kind of be used in one of these specialized
roles where he's full speed motion at the snap. That
that's definitely great, Like teams want viable target earners in
that position now, so I can see the vision there
depending on the coaching staff. But there are just a
lot of other receivers that I prefer in terms of

(40:07):
that can give you like high volume perspective, like high
volume type of season. So he's one that if you
went in the first round, I'd be a little nervous.
If you went in the second round, I'm like, all right,
I see where your.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
Vision is there.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
To that point, I'm totally with you. Player like that
with that skill set and that flash you got, where
he ends up is so important and what coaching staff
and what the surrounding talent is you kind of you
have to have a a scheme that knows how to
use a player like that.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
You kind of hit on a question greg I had.

Speaker 3 (40:40):
I was asking kind of who to you might be
more LaQuan treadwill Well then justin Jefferson. So a guy
that is so there is there a guy to you
out there other than other than four two one that
jumps out to you as someone that you think is like, oh,
if I were running a team, I'm staying away or
are you just like this clay Where there aren't.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
A lot of red flags out there.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
There's not a lot of red flags in terms of
the early guys. Because I know some people don't like
Adie Mitchell, the other receiver from Texas. I actually like
him better than Xavier Worthy, just because I think you
see him do like real NFL X receiver things, and
he's definitely a volatile prospect, but I can understand chasing
the upside there. The guy that I've been kind of
like back and forth on where my feeling on him

(41:24):
to changes depending on the game that I chart is
Xavier Legette, who some people do have as a late
first round pick. To me, that's definitely pretty rich despite
the fact that he's got great tackle breaking ability and
he shows an ability to get open on certain routes
at that size, it's very impressive to see him working
out there. But at the same time, I do think

(41:44):
he is a developmental player that might take a few years,
and even like that type of average separator is typically
like it matters even more where he ends up because
you've got to find the right quarterback to to sort
of see that, like sort of see that vision if
he's gonna be an outside player, which I do think
is gonna be the case. Like I look at another guy,

(42:04):
Keon Coleman, who's not a separator, but if you look
at his reception perception profile, I won't bore you guys
with like the very hardcore percentile stats.

Speaker 4 (42:12):
With this, get dirty, get dirty with the numbers.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
There's another say there's another drop. But like over the
over the last few draft classes I've charted, there's a
handful of players that have been below the thirty fifth
percentile and success rate versus man zone and press coverage
or at least two of the three. Almost all of
them have been total flameouts except five guys, and they've
all become like big slot receivers like Rashi Rice was

(42:37):
an outside receiver who didn't really get open. He moved
inside in the NFL found career success in year one.
I'm on ross Saint Brown. He was good against zone coverage,
but wasn't really great against man and press coverage as
an outside receiver at USC, moves in the slot, has
a great season, has a great career, obviously. Jujus Smith
Schuster another one struggled beaten man press coverage outside as
a collegiate player, was a big slot receiver in his

(42:59):
good year with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Like I see that
vision with Keon Coleman, where he's a guy that is
below that thirty fifth percentile mark and man and press coverage,
but it's a pretty solid zone beater, and he's pretty
good on these routes like dig routes and slant routes,
and so if the right team takes him, you know
that has a coaching stat like the Chiefs they take
Rashid Rice. I talked to Rashid Rice at the Super

(43:19):
Bowl kind of asked him, like when did the vision
of you becoming this receiver, like a big slot receiver
sort of when did that materialize? And he said it
was right after he was drafted, and like Brett Veach
talked about in the post draft presser, they saw him
as like a juju kind of replacement for them, which
was weird. To me because he was mostly a pure
outside receiver in college. So the right team takes Keon
Coleman has that vision for him. I can see that

(43:41):
working out with Lagett because he's a ball winner and
like he theoretically is more of an like a straight
line athlete. In my opinion, I think he has to
be an outside receiver and in that case is going
to take kind of the right team to really maximize
that skill set.

Speaker 4 (43:57):
He looks like the freakiest maybe of any of these.

Speaker 5 (44:01):
It's a little worrisome that you're like a fifth year
senior that you know, for various reasons, didn't have production
before you were twenty three, playing against some nineteen year olds.

Speaker 4 (44:10):
But if you just like, look at this man running down.

Speaker 5 (44:13):
The field, he's a total He looks like DK Metcalf
or A J.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
Brown.

Speaker 5 (44:18):
So some team has got to fall in love with
that at some point and just try to make it work.

Speaker 3 (44:22):
And don't forget greg that Tommy Callahan, son of Big
Tom Callahan, after a rough start on the road with
his colleague, ended up making Callahan's break pads hugely successful
in Tommy Boy. So just because you might he was
an eighth year senior as I recall, and Tommy did

(44:44):
just fine in the end.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
A trenching point in nice thanks, nicely.

Speaker 3 (44:47):
Done, thank you, last thing before we let you go. Macaus,
I know you're busy. Whither rock Bowers M. I don't
chart tight ends. Man, No, I love I love it.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
I love the man that was last year.

Speaker 3 (45:01):
Last year was a for The man has a code
respect code methodology.

Speaker 4 (45:09):
It is.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
It is a serious code. Because the Kyle Pitts bros.
Have been, you know, banging on my door for years
now about like where's our Kyle Pits reception perception chart?
And I have two reasons why I only stick to
the wide receiver position. One is kind of the the
statistical reason that I've been doing reception perception now in
these wide receivers for ten plus years. Like you know,

(45:32):
I've been working on this for a long time. I
have a very understanding of what the data show, very
good understanding what the data shows us, right like you
did you score this against man coverage? I understand where
your position should be. I should understand like what thresholds
are that all that type of stuff. To start a
whole new database with tight ends, we're starting from square one.
The second reason is can if I can work blue
on this show? I got enough show on my plate. Okay,

(45:54):
like I got I got enough wide receivers on my plate.
Right we're talking about there's you mentioned Greg, there's gonna
be eyes that come off the board in the third
round that I'm not gonna have a route chart for.
And it's gonna it's gonna make me nervous, it gonna
make me feel weird.

Speaker 3 (46:05):
Man.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
Let's be fair, though.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
We began this conversation with you saying, James Co your
partner with reception perception, who, by the way, is one
of the great showmen and hosts. But he wants to
bite at the apple and he wants to start studying.
He wants to start charting. Give him tight ends, throw
him that bone. Let's expand the property.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
I would love to James, this is your call. Step
up to the plate, buddy, contribute contribute to the to
the charting here. I mean, listen, this is what we
did with Derek Lassen, who does great work on quarterbacks.
I was like, hey, Derek is a free agent not
working for football outsiders anymore. Let's get him to chart
quarterbacks for reception perception. Dot com and that's what he

(46:43):
does now, So aspiring tight end whisper out there. Yea,
this is this is your call. Come come chart tight
ends for reception perception and that's how we'll get it done.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yeah, I just I don't think.

Speaker 6 (46:54):
I don't think like tight end perception is gonna work
well on certain corners of the Internet. But that's okay,
inside of your your great.

Speaker 3 (47:03):
I was gonna sat but that's a little, a little
backdoor entry to get into the data.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
Nailed it.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
Matt Harmon at Matt Harmon underscore b y B on Twitter.
Sorry Mark X. Also check him out on Yahoo and
of course reception Perception dot com which has everything in
the wider wide receiver realm. And if we're lucky, tight
ends very soon. Matt, you're the best buddy.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
Appreciate you boys for having me.

Speaker 4 (47:29):
Yeah, this is awesome.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
And can't wait to see where these guys actually get
drafted and then we can have a real conversation about it.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
I can't wait, Thank God.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
All right, let's take a break and when we got back,
we'll put a button on this.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
One welcome back.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
And uh yeah, I gotta get me myself a mythology.

Speaker 5 (47:57):
I mean, that's that does we didn't if we had
to have a mythology. I think you're talking about like
a methodology. You've created quite a mythology of oh, mythology. Yeah,
methodology is I think methodology.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
Methodology, mythology, mythology, that's what you got.

Speaker 6 (48:16):
You've got that down. I think the methodology part of it.
I'm just letting you know. I think you're you've got
a lot going on too. Just like Matt was saying,
like it would probably take about one hundred plus hours
a week to create some sort of rival site to this,
and you starting it back in twenty thirteen would have
been a wise move.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Are you ready to take that on now?

Speaker 6 (48:36):
Well?

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Just like how does one come up with a methodology? Like?

Speaker 3 (48:40):
How does one like? How does that originate within one's
own brain? That that, to me is something that I
aspire to have an idea come into my mind that
makes me think, not only is this an interesting idea,
this might be a methodology.

Speaker 4 (48:57):
I mean, this is not the way you use the
word methodology.

Speaker 5 (49:01):
You have done that, Dan, like that, this is that
podcast the way you create different episodes of the shows
and heighten certain characteristics from other people and that.

Speaker 4 (49:13):
Actually, that is your methodology. That's very nice. That is
the correct usage.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
But that's not what I'm thinking of.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
I want something like Matt has, where people come off like, whoa,
that guy is smart, that guy has his own methodology. Yeah,
I mean listening to ATM and be like, well, Dan
really nailed his methodology this week.

Speaker 6 (49:30):
But part of your mythology is this like state mandated
mythology lagged hardcore.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 6 (49:36):
Part of your mythology, though, is the fact that you're
notoriously ill at math, that you don't have any skills
at math, so you can't market you don't have to
reverse market that.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
Let's that's true.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
Okay, Let's let's talk about Zach Xaner, real quick, undrafted
rookie out of South Dakota State mark the preseason rushing
leader in two thousand and sixteen when he rush for
a buck eighty three on thirty five totes five point
two yards per Carrie. I didn't really translate, and Zach

(50:08):
is obviously long gone from the league, but he is
active on social media. I just came across this late
in our conversation with Maddie. Here it is Zach Xenner
thirty one follow him. When someone tells me I don't
have time, I think they don't have a strategy. I
had twenty five minutes to eat lunch and shower and

(50:28):
no prepped food parentheticals. Yesterday, put two salmon filets in
the airfire, showered, then ate it with some veggies and supplements.
Still made my two PM Part two.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
Was it my best meal?

Speaker 5 (50:42):
No?

Speaker 3 (50:43):
But I got my protein in and the nutrients came
from unprocessed whole food sources. The key was that I
had a plan in case I didn't have time to
prepare my typical lunch. Strategies and plans are crucial for
any goal, especially healthy and wellness. There you go, so
Zaxy on the path to He's got his own methodology
around health, fitness and wellness. So he's on that path

(51:04):
in life.

Speaker 6 (51:05):
I think, I if you, if you look back at it,
I I from a certain angle.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
I properly scouted him. Which angle would that be exactly?

Speaker 6 (51:14):
I mean, we're ten years later and he couldn't be
more successful. He's writing long mantras about air fryars and showering. Yeah,
and he's got more almost four thousand views on that
first tweet.

Speaker 5 (51:24):
I'm sure he's a blast at parties. He was in
the news recently as as Matt said that he's taken
his mcat and he actually has a nutrition company, so
it all it all, and he wants to be an agent.
So he's got a lot, a lot of things going on,
and you know, now we've got some some white receivers
to fill his his place. I was surprised he went

(51:46):
Pearsall there too, by the way, because Pearsall was a
guy didn't didn't get me going watching him because those guys,
it's a it's kind of a cliche to say that
the white guys fit better in the slot and they
tested out out of the him.

Speaker 4 (52:00):
There's got a better way to put that, well, but
it's true.

Speaker 5 (52:03):
What do you mean, Well, it's like a big cliche
that you put the white guys in the slot. There's
there's not many white outside receivers for a long time,
and these guys have crazy athletic scores. But Pierce All
really is a slot guy, and that kind of limits
I think where we would go. And McConkey, he mentioned
like was not beating outside press coverage, Like it was
not the type of receiver that you would normally see

(52:25):
go on, but he snaps, he moves well like in
some team is gonna fall.

Speaker 6 (52:28):
Don't you think Maconky is like pretty fun to watch?
I mean I spent like, yeah, I didn't spin out.
I can see working giant.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
What got me?

Speaker 6 (52:38):
That's what put me in the doorway because I was like,
is he related to film a Coonkye?

Speaker 2 (52:42):
And no, there's no no relation. The internet.

Speaker 6 (52:46):
I guess if you, I mean, if you know, if
you if you dug deep into the family tree, you know,
I'm sure there is.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
But it's not like his son or something big fun.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
Can you dig deep into the Maconkie family tree and
see if the four I'm a New York Giants wide
receiver teammate of Sean Landena, I believe Mark who had
a circus catch in Super Bowl twenty one against the
Denver Broncos, if he is related in any way to
the highly lauded draft prospect Ladd McConkie, Ladd la double

(53:18):
d mconkie, thank you anything else?

Speaker 4 (53:23):
Boys, that's fun.

Speaker 5 (53:27):
It's such a crazy draft that there's guys like like
Troy Franklin. He's got an outside chance to get drafted
in the first round. Like we didn't even mention Harrison
or whatever. There's just it's almost hard to like figure
out which one is which guy here, Like Texas, for instance,
has two we mentioned that could both go in the
first round in Worthy and Ady Mitchell.

Speaker 4 (53:48):
There's just like guy upon guy upon guy. And that's good.

Speaker 5 (53:52):
Because as we talked about, there's like a million teams
that have needs at the position.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
And you're right, it feels almost strange not to dig
in on Marvin Harrison Junior and this episode, the one
with the wide receivers. But I will say this, he
is number two on Daniel Jeremiah's top fifty twenty twenty
four NFL prospects that he just put out, and I
don't agree with the decision, but I don't have full
control of things, Like we will have Jeremiah on the
show next week, and let's dig in on Harrison when

(54:19):
he is with us. One last thought, because we have
so many potentially high end wide receivers or certainly at
the very least sought after wide receivers, and a reminder
that not everything works. And of course Matt Harmon is
going to be tracking this on RP reception, perception and

(54:40):
a lot of these guys are gonna pop, but sometimes
it just doesn't translate. I thought about with this many
wide receivers this position, it's probably if you probably really
do the dive, it's probably not that out of the ordinary.
It certainly happens with the quarterback position for obvious reasons.
But teams can go on runs in the first round.
Two years come to mind, twenty twenty three. Last year

(55:00):
four straight wide receivers. Seattle took JSN at twenty, the
Chargers took Quenton Johnson at twenty one, Baltimore took Zay
Flowers at twenty two, and then Jordan Addison went to
the Vikings at twenty three. And then I had mentioned
the Lakwan Treadwell, who did not work out from Minnesota.
He was part of another run in twenty sixteen when

(55:21):
Houston took Will Fuller at twenty one, Washington took Josh
Dockson at twenty two, and then Treadwell twenty three. None
of those guys really made it well, Fuller almost did
but then disappeared. Strange, So I wonder if we're going
to get that, if we're going to get this year
another one where we get a run of three or
even four guys in a row.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
I think we will.

Speaker 6 (55:40):
But I think so we're going to get I still
look at I know it looks like the best class
we've ever had during our show, clearly, but forty percent
of them are going to be on the same team
three years from now.

Speaker 4 (55:52):
I believe it's different.

Speaker 5 (55:53):
The receiver has hit well, Like you look at that
AJ Brown class and granted those guys it was crazy
because they went and the second McLaurin was in the
third they were all over the place. A lot of
the like it. To me, it's hit at a higher
level than other positions. And the difference this year is like,
I'm pretty confident Brian Thomas would have gotten drafted over

(56:14):
all those receivers last year, and he's four here, Like
I think he'll go top top twelve, top fifteen. So
it is a better class than I think we've seen
in the last few Then there'll be some boomer Bus
guys after that.

Speaker 6 (56:27):
Well, and like a rookie wide receiver contract is very
valuable too. But I I I'm just saying, I'm telling
you let's let's let's talk in four years and see
where we are.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
It's not all gonna be starters and number one dudes.
All Right, Mark, we get it, you know.

Speaker 6 (56:40):
I mean I don't know because I'm like I was
like looking at but we don't have to dwell on
it well because you know, I was looking at the
draft class from just like three years ago and I
find it relatively depressing, which one just like in general,
what's happened to tons of players that we were squawking about?

Speaker 2 (56:58):
And I'm not you know, I get it. I'm not
trying to go down that path. But it's like, oh, Mark,
you sent it called Sonova bitch.

Speaker 4 (57:05):
I'm with you, though, but I think it's like, I mean, I.

Speaker 3 (57:08):
Said it first, but you know, we don't need to
hammer it home that these guys play.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
I'm tapping it, understand.

Speaker 4 (57:15):
All right?

Speaker 5 (57:16):
How about the twenty twenty two would be the closest comp,
but this one would probably be viewed as better Garrett Wilson,
Drake London, O Love.

Speaker 4 (57:23):
I mean those are all hits.

Speaker 6 (57:25):
That, yeah, but I'm not talking about the first five guy,
and we're talking about like there's sixteen, like twenty people.
Like the comps for the bottom ten are a lot
of them are just sort of normal wide receivers, so whatever,
we'll see Well, in half a decade, I will be right.

Speaker 3 (57:39):
Yes, we will circle back in exactly half a decade. Finally,
one bit of update here, Big Funk, who never shies
away from any challenge, including incredible photoshop work on the
twenty twenty four San Diego gray Beard's Media Guide. He
has a date. According to Randy, this is a direct quote.

(58:03):
There is no reported relation between eighties mconkie in twenty
twenties mconkie.

Speaker 4 (58:09):
Well that was what Mark said.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
That was reporting, right, But we threw it to Randy,
so if you want it, if it makes it feel
more official, Randy is officially.

Speaker 2 (58:21):
Going on record that there is no relation. Well, I appreciate.

Speaker 6 (58:26):
I appreciate Randy, but it doesn't feel any more official
to me because I went and researched it like like
this week myself.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
But that's fine, Oh, Raby, this isn't good out.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
For you, Randy says, We'll take this, mister Cinek. The
mconkie name originates from Irish.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
Del Riata delta dan Tarriata.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
It's Gaelic, I guess, so while not direct, there may
be something somewhere down the line.

Speaker 4 (58:48):
Well, sure, we're all related somewhere down the line.

Speaker 3 (58:51):
If you go far enough back, you know what I think,
that's that's a great way to the end end the episode,
greg that we are all, we all bleed red, and
we might not all look the same, but we are one,
even if we are not the same.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
Till Monday heat the b