May 15, 2022 • 46 mins
Ep.219 - David Brody from Elvis Duran and The Morning Show and Jamie from Lite FM break down Fear TWD S7 ep 12 "SONNY BOY"
Plus we give you the latest news about The Walking Dead, Fear The Walking Dead and all of the spin-offs #TheWalkingDead #TWD #FearTWD #TWDWorldBeyond #TalkingDead
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Charge here. The rules are Welcome to Walkers and Talkers
Episode to nineteen. I'm David Brodie from Elvinstraight in the
Morning Show, and that is Jamie from Light to f M.
Hi Jamie, Hello, how are you? We are recording this
on Friday the thirteen, which I guess is uh, I
don't know, means something to some people. Are you not
(00:28):
someone who believes in that crap? Are you? Um? No,
not really. I kind of like Freda And it's my
birthday tomorrow, so I'm in a good mood. It's it's
a good week. I was gonna say that it's your birthday.
I was gonna give you props birthdays May four. Yes,
depending on when you hear this, please wish Jamie a
happy birthday at the Talking Jamie on Instagram and Twitter,
(00:48):
and go ahead and wish your happy birthday on at
Walker's Underscore Talkers. Thank you. And if you want to
wish me a belated happy birthday from January at David Brody,
You're more than welcome to do that. All right, let's
get right into it. We got a weekend to kick off,
and I need to get this thing edited and up. Boy, Jamie,
the episode is called sunny Boy. Did you like it? Um?
(01:09):
I did like it? It was good. It was okay, Yeah,
like like it. It was great, it was decent, it
was fine. It was I mean, it wasn't the best room.
It was okay. Here's my theory up front. I don't
think Fear The Walking Dead's gonna last past season eight.
I'm kind of agreeing with you on that. I know
the network picked it up. I think that either people
(01:30):
are jumping ship because the creativity on that show is
losing it and people want off, or they really only
have a year left maybe, or they're cutting budget. They're
getting rid of the expensive people. I mean, not that
Charlie is expensive, but you now have Charlie on Death Store.
A big name died this week. We'll get to it.
I'll give my opinion on the death this week. But
(01:52):
people are dying who like we knew he was gonna
die because he told us he was dying, so he
went out and to blaze of glory guess in slow motion? Um, yeah, again,
nobody's getting eaten by accident. They're all sort of set
themselves up, and I've got some major bullshit to call
on the protective gear. So we'll get to that. Overall,
(02:14):
I thought the episode was I mean, it was nice
to see it. It's always nice when the right people die.
So that's good, all right. The episode Sunny Boy starts
off with John. I'm not gonna call him John Senior
anymore because John Junior is dead. Spoiler just John, Okay.
That John is practicing his speech he wants to give
to Victor, and he's reciting it to June. He's gonna
tell Strand that he needs a new right hand man,
(02:37):
that a leader is only as strong as his second
in command. As he's talking to June, you see a
montage of Victor's men going through people's rooms, ripping open mattresses,
looking under drawers, looking for walkie talkies, which they find
in a bunch of people's rooms. No explanations how they
got there, how they got all these walkie talkies inside
the building? Why bother explaining anything? Right? So, this relatively woman,
(03:00):
maybe she's in the thirties, I don't know. Uh, they
found a walkie talkie in her room, so rather than
ask her about it, maybe it was planted, Maybe you know,
she found it. Whatever reason, Strand is paranoid. He thinks
it's part of a coup plot to overthrow him, and
they throw this poor woman off the roof. Oh my god,
it was so awful to watch. Why is there no
(03:21):
jail cell? Why is there no option to put someone
in a cell until you find the truth out? Seriously,
it's instant death over the roof. Over the roof, you're out.
And he's holding the baby as these people die, which
I thought was extra often. So John just stands there
and watches all these people go over one after the other.
Howard's throwing people. Howard in one of the henchmen, throwing
people off the roof, one after the other, one after
(03:42):
the other. Anyone who had a walkie talk He's going
over the side. So June tells John the speech is
not gonna work because Strand likes Howard too much, and
Howard is a yes man. He says, Strand has been
paranoid since Morgan poisoned him, and there might be a
resistance forming, and that's why he's cracking down on everybody,
So this might be my chance to get him all
(04:02):
he's paranoid. Yeah. Charlie calls from the other room for help,
and she looked like ship. Charlie looked like I mean,
she looked like she had a bad sunburn. But she's
she's dying and it's a slow, ugly death. Hear, Oh, yeah,
it's okay. And again she killed Nick. Spoiler, she killed Nick.
But I don't know. I mean, she seemed okay at
(04:23):
the end. She's now that she's older, and you know,
everybody kills everybody. She turned her out a little bit. Yeah,
all right. Anyway, John is convinced he can get through
the Victor and change him, and June says, no, you can't.
Your son tried to change Virginia. That didn't work out
very well. A soldier comes in the room and says
they found another waukee. This time it's in Howard's room.
John says, I didn't put it there, but hey, look
this is my chance, right how it's gonna look bad.
(04:46):
I can weasel my way into Victor's good graces. Sneaky, sneak.
So John goes to see Victor in his office and
he gives them the speech that we heard him practicing.
And the next thing you see, they're up on the
roof and two men are holding how World over the ledge.
Well Strand is prepared to throw him overboard because he
had a walkie in his room, as if like that's
(05:07):
the be all end, all right. Seriously, Howard is screaming,
this place is everything to me. I would never betray you.
Somebody planned diwalkee, so I knew at that point he
didn't do it. I mean, he's not his walkie talkie.
But more importantly, he's Howard right, it was his building originally.
What would be the crime of having a walkie talking?
(05:29):
He's upper management, he's the right man. Why would it
be a problem for him having I don't understand why
it would be a problem for him. And never walkie talking?
What would be the big deal? And and and get this.
If you're in charge of your men searching the building
for walkie talkies, why would you leave one in your
own room? Oh you tell Strand, Hey, just so you know,
(05:51):
I've got a walkie talkie. I got a piece of
tape on it. It's mine. It's for when you and
I talk. Oh, okay, not a problem. The whole thing
made no sense. Why why would anyone believe you? And
and Victor and Howard have built this tower together for
what six months? Whatever it's been from scratch. Howard has
done everything to show his loyalty. First really saved Strand's life.
(06:12):
He let him live in the tower. He's been He
fed him gourmet meals, he made him the ruler of
the tower. He let out. Let's Strand take the power
from him. He's killed people for first Strand, he's living
the life as the second in charge. Why would he
want to overthrow Strand? It doesn't make any sense. And
I know Strand is paranoid, but why would you be
paranoid that the guy closest to you, who's been the
(06:34):
most loyal because he's a walkie talkie in his room,
put him in a jail. Put him in a jail cell.
So Strand says, regardless of how the walkie talkie got there,
I can't believe a word. You say, what what does
that mean? If diwalkeie talkie was planted there? Why would
why would you not be able to believe him? Oh? Lord?
He says, I need proof that you're you're on my side,
(06:55):
and says, John's gonna get me proof. How do you
prove someone's loyalty? The guy already proved lowty for the
last six months or whatever. The phone rings and John
answers it and says Strand, we have bad news. The
baby is missing. So Howard says, let me find the baby,
and Strand says, I don't trust you. And then Howard says, well,
let me prove to you can trust me and have
rangers follow me everywhere. Strand says, all right, go find
(07:18):
the baby by sunrise, or I'll finish what we started
and throw you off the roof again. I don't okay,
it doesn't make any sense. Strand and John have a
little heart to heart conversation. Strand says he wants John
to go after the baby and find her, and that
he's betting on John. He says, I know the dory spirit.
We saw your son make a raft out of an
old truck to find June. I know you can do it.
(07:39):
This tower is bigger than both of us, but it's
my legacy. John says, well, your legacy can slip away
from you if you don't do things the right way.
Too many people are getting hurt and they don't need to.
I too, did the wrong thing for the right reason,
and it haunted me. Oh. John interrogates everyone, including June,
(08:01):
and she cracks like an egg and confesses to John
that Morgan won't attack the tower as long as the
baby is there, but if the baby is gone, Strand
would lose all leverage. And John says, so it's true,
there is a resistance and you're part of it, and
June says, unless you know the better, she was an
easy crack, Yeah, I can I can trust you. Just
distract Howard. So John realizes now that Howard is not
(08:24):
part of it, at least part of the resistance. At
least that's what at this point of the show we're
led to believe. He asks Horror if she planted dwalkie
and she says, no, it wasn't me. So at that
point did you think it Who did you think it was?
Who planned Dwaukee? I thought it was either June or John.
Somebody was lying, right, and June would have confessed to it,
so I think right, So I knew it had to
(08:46):
be John. John had the most to gain by planning
the wall, absolutely most. So when she walks away, he
notices the bottom of her feet are wet because she's
leaving tracks along the floor, so he knows whether she's
been She's been somewhere, whether it's been at John tells Howard,
by the way, just you know, I'm also helping to
look for the baby. And John starts interrogating him and
(09:07):
asked him about his family because Strand said he had
a wife and a kid. And Howard says, my wife
and kid left me before the apocalypse. And he goes
on to tell his story about how he he was
an historian in Texas and he claimed to have discovered
the second part of a very famous letter, and he
became a celebrity, and then they found out he forged
it and his wife left him because, yeah, his wife
(09:28):
left him because she felt he cared more about making
history and being famous than taking care of his own family.
Howard says his goal is to find his family and
show him all this history that he gathered, all these artifacts,
and all the things he's achieved at the tower. It's
my legacy and that and that, and then that's how
I show compassion. So I want to bring my family here.
(09:48):
So what Howard's saying is his wife and daughter, his
wife and kid, his son left him at this point,
like years ago, yeah, before the apocalypse, three or four
years ago, whatever it's been walking Dead timeline. He has
no clue where they went nuclear bombs dropped on the area,
and he still thinks not only are they alive, but
(10:09):
they'd want to find him in a miscellaneous tower when
they don't want to be near him in the first place.
I don't think so. So that's not that's not smart planning. Anyway,
A few guards come into the Howard's office and say, look,
we've searched a file a five mile radius and the
whole tower. We can't find the baby. Howard says, well,
search the tower again, damn it, and John says, let
(10:29):
me ask you a question. How do you feel about
all the people you threw off the roof? And he says,
my family finds the tower, it will all be worth it.
I get that, I mean worth it to you, But
that's what What does your family say if they find
out you're the you killed all these people? And then
what do you tell strand when your family arrives, I
no longer throw people off the roof exactly, I'm not
(10:50):
going to follow your orders anywhere. What are you gonna say, idiot?
All right, I'm all frustrated, Jamie, I gotta take a break.
What what I what ide do you want to hear?
How about Emily Kinney. Oh, Emily Kinney, I played Beth
on The Walking Dead. All right, noble, noble choice. Here
you go. Here's Beth. We'll be right back. Hi. This
is Emily Kinney Beth on The Walking Dead, and you're
(11:12):
listening to David Brody and Jamie on the Walkers and
Talkers podcast. All right, did you enjoy your bath? I did?
She's so sweet. God, that's a law. You didn't hear
it because I didn't play it, but I never remember
what it sounds like. Yes, yes, absolutely, Okay. So June
is in the basement killing walkers that are barricaded with sandbags.
That is an opening to the basement where walkers can
(11:34):
easily come in, and they barricaded it with a four
ft high wall of sand bags. That doesn't seem like
the best they could have done. They could have probably
done better than that. I think they could have done better.
John comes down and finds her, and he says he
knew she was there because it gets muddy down there
when it rains, and she was tracking mud across the room.
He hears a baby crying in a box nearby. Did
(11:57):
you notice they put the baby in a box? Yeah?
Like how about some ventilation, some air holes, something good.
Nobody puts baby in the box, by the way, And
this is this is nothing dramatic. It's I just it's
something I've noticed because I went back and looked. Have
you noticed the baby really looks nothing like its parents? Yeah?
I don't know, that's it. I remember the mom. I
(12:19):
don't even remember. Yeah, I just I don't think it.
I just the baby doesn't seem to look like the parents,
that's all. It just seems like strange casting. I feel
like it's like somebody who works on the show wanted
their kid in the show. The kids. Yeah, all right.
John finds a bag with supplies, including a football helmet
(12:40):
and a mask. This is the gear that I Issia
Tyler war right right, that and the football mask and
whole thing. June says, I'm gonna wear this get up
because it worked the last time. And John John says,
looks at the water starting to rock build up behind
the walkers, the rains coming down, and so June says, look,
Organ's not far away. He's ready to take the baby,
(13:02):
and I have to do it tonight. Well why do
you have to do it tonight? But she has to
do it tonight. Coincidence timing bullshit. As they're standing there,
a flood of water comes in behind the walkers and
knocks the waters down, knocks the sand sand bag barricade down,
knocks the gate down on June and John. The gate
traps June. John gets up and goes to shoot a
walker with his his old gun, and the walker knows
(13:26):
how to disarm him like a karate expert. Seriously, that's
the good right out of his hand. Come on, now,
The walkers move like really slowly, and he's like, yeah,
the man is a trained police officer and he yeah,
And then he knocked the gun out of John's hand
into the water where you're not gonna be able to
find it. The water is muddy, dirty water, murky and dirty.
(13:49):
You can't see your own foot. Now, you would think
he won't be able to find it, but oh no,
it wasn't difficult. Actually it was super easy, barely an inconvenience.
If you know what that means, please tweet me. All right.
So he uses the gate to push all the walkers down,
and it fits perfectly over the alcove where the baby is,
so they're able to use the part of the gate
(14:11):
to lock themselves in, and it's up a step so
the walkers can't get them all. Very convenient, but the
gate isn't attached right. The gate is leaning against the
alcove and neither of them is holding the gate up,
so the walkers are banging against it, but it doesn't fall.
Isn't it amazing? Yeah? They can reach right through. Like
when Arnold was in the cage, they reached right through
(14:32):
and ate him up and get his legs right there.
They were able to grab him. They were able to
grab him and make his legs stick out. But these
walkers don't reach over and grab them at all. They
don't do anything. They're just like, can't get this defence.
What are you gonna do? They're just gonna keep circling around.
They're walk They have no um, no work ethic, these walkers.
(14:52):
John takes the baby out of the box and says,
we gotta head towards the elevators, and she says, what
are you talking about. You know I'm gonna go bring
the baby to Morgan and he says, I'm going to
cement my legacy. We have to protect this baby now.
He wants his legacy. So nobody chasing these legacies. He says,
you get to the elevator. I gotta get to my
(15:13):
gun and clear some of them out. And June says,
you came down here to help me or yourself, and
he says, no, I came down here to help the baby.
And then he sings two lines of sunny Boy to
the baby that his son used to like. And then
it's like, then it's weird. Now he's like treating the
baby like it's his son. Meanwhile, thank you for saying that.
I thought it was so weird. Then it took a
(15:33):
turn and the rest of the episode it's like it's
his child. He became like you know on these TV
shows with a crazy woman kidnapped someone else's baby, yes,
or remember when the when the when the crazy lady
actually kidnapped the baby from Morgan and Grace in the car? Right,
the woman thought it was her baby, Yep, when they
drove into like that's a classics like, uh says symptom
(15:54):
of a mother. Right, it's the greatest baby ever. He's like,
I have to protect this baby. What you didn't care
about the baby all this time? You didn't try to
rescue the baby and get it to me, Yeah, it's
it's Morgan's baby, Grace's baby. It's not your baby. He's like,
I'm gonna do for this baby what I couldn't do
my own son. All Right, you know what, your son
(16:15):
is still dead. Well, it's not gonna help anybody anyway.
John says, we have to get this baby upstairs. He
has a chance of a good life here with the
tower and Victor, and June says that's crazy, and John
says it has to work. I put all of this
in motion. I planted the walkie on and Howard's room,
so now he cracks like an egg. Everyone's cracking. What
(16:37):
I don't understand is why would you yell that if
you don't know who could be at the top of
the steps at any moment. Seriously, because, as it turns out,
thirty seconds later they show up, right, So why wouldn't
Why would you yell I planted the walkie that loud,
so loud, so loud. So June says, you're doing it again,
(16:59):
like when you planet evidence to catch Teddy. He says,
I abandoned my son. I won't let that happen again.
I won't let that happen to this kid. Look what
happened to Charlie. So John says, I'm gonna get through
the walkers, and he's holding the baby and trying to
find his gun in the water. So he runs in.
June puts on the football gear. Uh, and John's gonna
go run into the water carrying the baby and look
(17:20):
for his gun. So that's the plan. John's gonna run
into the walkers with the with the baby on his
while he's holding the baby and with his other hand
reach into into dirty water and hope he can hope
he can find a gun. Yeah, there it is, the
dirty water. There it is. So the plan doesn't work.
(17:43):
He finds the gun, he's almost out of bullets. He
shoots everyone like a bunch of them. He has one
bullet left. And at that point I said, oh, he's
got one bullet left. He's either gonna kill himself, he's
gonna he's gonna he's gonna. Someone's gonna die with that one.
There's a reason why he made one point to say
there's one bullet left, right, There's there's a reason. As
it turns out, well, i'll tell you later. It turns
out so miraculously June is able to push off seven
(18:07):
or eight walkers with her armor. She's pushing them off,
pushing them off, and she tells him to run. Now.
I don't know why the walkers um didn't like try
to reach into her football helmet to scratch her face
or whatever. Yeah, but John refuses to run down the
hallway to safe and then before and then a minute
later there's walkers in the hallway, so he wouldn't have
(18:29):
gotten away anyway. I don't have there walkers in the
getaway hallway. But there's walkers in the getaway hallway. Now
they're all coming in. They run back behind the gate
and there's a call box there. UH to to call whoever,
and he tells June, call whoever whoever has been helping
you to come help us. I want to protect Mo
because she won't survive outside. I don't want her to
end up like Charlie. And then says, look, I don't
(18:52):
want to end up like me. I don't have a
lot of time left. And he lifts up his shirt
and he's got radiation burns on his abdomen. At some point,
he says he got the radiation when he went looking
for Charlie. When Charlie went looking for elevator parts yea
that he must have gotten too close to her an
irradiated walker. So June calls on the thing for Grace
to come help. Grace were down here, come help me,
(19:13):
and then a while goes by, nobody shows up and
he says, look, I must he says. Um. June says,
I don't know how much time you have left, and
he's like, yeah, I don't know. I don't know how
bad this is, but I'm definitely dying. Strand and Howard
show up and shoot the walkers that are blocking June
and John, and they say, look, we stopped Grace in
(19:35):
the elevator because it was obvious she she wasn't supposed
to be there. We didn't know where she was going,
and we found out she was coming here, and how
It says, looks like we caught the resistance. So at
that point, did you think they were going to arrest
both of them? I did. I thought, oh, John is
caught right handed, but not really so Howard. He is
(19:56):
the baby crying, and he goes and he takes the
baby out of the out of the box. My thought
was they needed help, right, they were trapped. Why would
you call Grace if your plan was to go back upstairs,
why wouldn't you call Strand and say, hey, we found
the baby in the basement. June and I found the baby,
but now we're trapped exactly. That's what you say there.
(20:18):
They don't think anything. They're the dumbest people. So John
has that look on her face like funk, I'm busted explicit,
and and John's like John looked guilty. Also, like John
could have said, oh, I found the baby or or
or we found the baby. Thank god you're here. We
found the baby down here, the walkers were here. We
fought our way through the walkers. Howard says, look, I
(20:41):
told you I would find her, and Strand says, no,
you didn't. He found her meaning Strang meaning John. He
looks so dejected. But technically John found the baby because
he found June with the baby. But Howard found the
baby because he found them and he found they our
grace right now, technically, if John brought the baby back upstairs,
(21:05):
Howard wasn't needed. But he did it. To Strand's mind,
a normal person, he did find the baby. Yeah, they
all leave John and June in the basement, they take
the baby, they leave, so at this point, I don't
know if he's just happy to have the baby back
or he's convinced they're the ones who kidnapped her and
he'll deal with them later. We don't know. So cut
(21:26):
to Strand on the roof with John and Howard, who
have their backs to the to the ledge of the building, which,
by the way, why would you have a stand by
the ledge of the building? Never not with them around,
and Strand gives them a speech about civilization standing and
people having to be unified, and how It says, hey, man, look,
I've been with you since the beginning. And John says,
(21:46):
I believe in this place just as much as he does.
I think this is the best place for the child
to have a chance to survive. And Strand says, if
you truly believe in this place, John push Howard over
the roof, and how It says, way in a d
you what are you talking about? I found the baby?
And Strand says, I said I would spare you if
you found the baby and you didn't. Okay, God, okay,
(22:08):
but you haven't proven he's a trader. He could still
be loyal to you even though he didn't find the baby. Yeah,
Howard says, I don't deserve this, and John says he's right,
it doesn't deserve this. I planted the walkie. So at
that point, Jamie, did you think he was going over? Like?
Did you think I did you think he was taken
(22:30):
the blame for the walkie? Because Howard has a family,
he felt bad and he knows he's dying anyway. I
think he just wanted to confess and he knew he
was daying anyway. But I thought they were going to
push John off the while. That's what I'm saying. I
think John was trying to save Howard's life. Strand is
so unhinged. Yeah, but I think what I'm saying is
I think John felt bad for Howard a little bit
(22:51):
that he was innocent, but also because he knows he
thought at the time Howard had a wife and a kid,
and he doesn't know he didn't. He's done a lot
of bad things, but he doesn't deserve to die now,
not now. So I thought John, knowing John was gonna die,
he was gonna let throw him over the roof. Other way,
even if I'm dying from radiation poisoning, I don't want
to get thrown off a roof, cracked my skull, open
a break boat, and then getting eaten by a walker.
(23:12):
That's until they eat you. Yeah, like a couple of
the people. Strand says, you did that. You planted the
walkie just to gain audience with me. That shows you
really are invested, like like, oh my god, Like that's
a mafia thing, like on the Sopranos. You're like, yeah,
you killed my cousin to get my attention. Wow, here's
(23:34):
my attention, all of it. He says. I like that.
I like that a lot, But you still need to
do the other thing I asked you to do, in
other words, throw out off the roof. John says, I
won't do it, especially since now you know Howard didn't
do anything wrong. What did he do? Now? And why
would anyone trust Strand as a leader if your most
loyal guy didn't do anything. You just proved he didn't
(23:56):
do anything. You wanted proof. He just told you I
planned the walkie and you're gonna throw him over the
roof anyway, what did he do? Oh my god? All right,
So John says I won't do it, and Strand says,
all right, then I'll bring Grace up here or in
June and we'll throw them off the roof. So John
grabs Howard and Howard says, no, John, please don't. And
(24:16):
he says, I'm sorry, Howard, but you did a lot
worse to people for far less, and he throws him
over the side. Oh boom. And so here's where I'm
king as a contradiction. If you're trying to save his
life by saying you planted the walkie talking, why would
you then eagerly throw him over the roof and say
you've done a lot worse for less. Yes, yes, it's
(24:40):
so cool. I guess he can't break his pattern of
Strand like he has to show him. Listen, I'm on
your side, and I did do this again an audience
in Yeah. But he didn't know Strand would react that way.
He didn't know Strand would say, oh, I like that
you planted the walkie. He had no way of knowing
that anyway. Strand says, it's just as well that he
threw him over the side. His family would never have
found this place. And John says, why is that? And
(25:02):
Strand says, because we found them months ago. They had
turned They had already turned way before we found them.
And so he says, well, why don't you tell him
that he's because it kept him motivated to help me
build this place, hoping his family would show up. And
it worked until until today. And Strand says to him, well,
you can have Howard's apartment. So then Strand says to John,
(25:25):
was it you John that said you're only as good
as your partner? Well, here's to a great partnership. So
now he's using John's own words against him to say, like,
you're my new partner. How great is this? And and
so I this, this is what I wrote. John looks
like he wants to vomit. The next scene. The next scene,
he's vomiting. But I did I didn't write that in
(25:49):
his script. No, Now, I think he was vomiting from
the radiation. But I thought he looked like he wanted
a vomit because he can't believe what he did, Like
he got in bed with a with a crazy man,
and he's been watching people die in hopes of being
able to convince Victor to do it, to to run
the place a better way. All Right, we're gonna talk
about how well that plan worked and a major major
(26:12):
mistake by John. Two major mistakes by John right after this, Hey, now,
what is going on? Beautiful people? My name is Sebastian
Selzie a k A. MIPS. I play Cole on Fear
of the Walking Dead and you were listening to my
pals David Brody and Jamie on the Walkers and Talkers podcast.
(26:32):
Peace and Love everybody, all right? John sits down in
Howard's chair, which is now his chair, and it happens
to be right near the picture of Howard and his
family and the bottle of liquor Howard was drinking out
of before that. He said that that uh that John
said no too earlier in the episode, so I don't
drink that stuff. Needless to say, John drinks a lot
(26:53):
of the bottle of liquor. Went to town, how well,
he's a professional drinker. Strand comes in with the baby.
He puts a record on the record player and he
makes it really loud, no one can hear them talk.
He says there's gonna be some changes around here. And John,
because he's an idiot like his son, who is dumb
as a brick, gets excited and says, Oh, you're gonna
(27:14):
listen to some of the changes I suggested, and Trance
Trand says, no, I know Grace and June went on
this whole thing. I'm gonna take soul custody of mo
and raise her in the penthouse by myself. Oh my god,
all these people want this baby. Yeah, so now he's
gonna take it away from its Well, Grace is not
really the mother, but she was raising it as so
(27:38):
John says, then what's my role? Well, I don't know why.
What's my role? As a question, it had nothing to
do with the baby. Why would his role change? You're
the right hand guy. You throw people off the roof.
That's your role. I don't know why he would ask.
Then what a minute, you're taking the baby? Then what's
my role? His role had nothing to do with the baby.
Now it does, because he says, your job to make
sure no one takes the baby. Oh so, I just it.
(28:00):
That was weird that he said, well, what's my role? Right?
It didn't make any sense. You know what your role is,
You do it how it did exactly. You're the new
Howard John. So we already know John thinks he's dying
and wants to protect the baby, and we also know
he's drunk at this point. I'm not sure why he
doesn't just kill Strand? Okay, that's what I wrote at
the time. John says, whatever you do, you'll never get
what you want from that baby, the love, the respect.
(28:21):
You'll only push her away. How does he know what
the baby is gonna do when it gets older? What
if the baby grows up to be a demented, sociopath narcissist.
Everyone has plans for this child as it's a girl
is older. This is like the ninth and John, and
John knows what's gonna happen with how the child is
gonna go. Strand says, oh, you're an expert. What happened
(28:42):
with you and your son? Like you're gonna give advice? Yeah? So,
John says, that's what I'm trying to get through to you.
But if if you really wanted the baby to love you,
then let me help you change how you do things
in the tower, Like let me make you a better person.
Strand says, if I wanted your counsel, I would ask,
and then for some reason he turns his back would
(29:02):
turn Yeah I thought that too, Like do you turn around?
I know you think he's loyal, but why would you
turn your back on anyone? First? Of all, you're in
a room talking to a guy. So why would you
stare out the window like a power move, like to
look out onto the what? There's nothing out there to
look out onto. Why would you look out the window?
There's nothing there? M hm. So John says, you're never
gonna listen to my ideas for you were you? And
(29:25):
Strand says, it's what I told you. Everyone needs something
to motivate them. See now, once you say that, you
no longer have any reason to motivate John. Wouldn't you
just say, yes, I'm gonna I'm contemplating your ideas and
I may put some of them in at least string
him along a little further. He says, what you did today,
John will long outlive you. It will. It will be
(29:46):
a legacy, his legacy that he threw Howard off the
roof and then he found the baby. John pulls his gun,
the one that has one bullet left, and points it
at Victor's head. So at that point, I'm thinking, I
you got the one bullet. Let's do this. But that's
what I thought. I'm like, let's do this thing. But
then I thought, you can't kill Strand Because the next
three episodes are the Big War, the big war that
(30:09):
we're waiting for, that Madison's gonna show up at some point,
that maybe Madison, maybe Madison kills Strand. I think, like
maybe that would be a good way to get rid
of Strand, if Madison kills him. Although I'm pretty sure
Alicia's dying this season, I'll tell you why. I think
she's done with the show. She's barely on the show.
They've made it to be an idiot, and she just
got a job as the lead in the show on Hulu. Oh.
(30:32):
I think they know she's leaving, and they and and
they have to bring in Madison salary, and that's why
they get rid of John. And they don't want to
have Charlie around because Madison will find out that she
killed Nick, so they get rid of her too. And
I think they're just clearing the way. And I think
Alicia's done for I think she's not going to survive
(30:52):
the war. I don't think she's I don't think she's
walker bitten. I just think she's gonna die either right
before Madison shows up or right after, which is why
I think, as I said before, I think I think
that's why they're both on the finale of Fear the
Walking Dead. But they are clearing house and I want
the Rabbi back, clearing house, b back. Where is he? John,
(31:14):
instead of shooting him, knocks him in the back of
the head and knocks him out with the gun. I
guess he's an expert on where to hit a guy
in the back of the head to knock him out.
He would that, I'll give it to him. He would
know where to hit you. Yeah, so John says, this
isn't my legacy. The baby is okay, Yeah, okay. If
I know, I know that John is a former police officer,
(31:36):
doesn't want to kill people if he doesn't have to.
But he just killed Howard for a reason, right, He
just watched all those people go over the roof because
his his goal was want to get him on his
good side, to get close to Strand. At that point,
why wouldn't you shoot Strand? Because you already know he's
a prick. You already know he's not going to change
the way he does things. And even if you escape
(31:57):
with the baby, he's gonna kill Gray sin June. Yeah,
he's a bad guy. You already told you. He's gonna
kill Grace and June and if you steal the baby,
he's absolutely gonna kill Grace. It's over. Yeah, So I
I didn't make any sense to me. So he takes
the walkie from Strand and calls Morgan. Somehow Morgan is
on the same walkie talk we frequency. I'm sorry, somehow
(32:22):
dis walkie talkie that Strand has is set to the
same frequency that Morgan is on. Already, He's like, at Morgan,
you stopt there. So he confirms Morgan is right outside
the walls, which again, if anyone's listening, that's you don't
want anybody to know that. He says, I'm bringing the
baby to you, Morgan. He takes a lot of Howard's artifacts,
his armor, his boxing gloves, his war helmet, and he
(32:43):
puts it on himself to keep it safe. But did
you notice his shoulders were exposed, his face was exposed, everything,
his arms, Like, why wouldn't you wear the football gear
that completely covered and protected you, you would think, And
if you're if you're that covered, uncovered, why would you
go out there and risk yourself? I know you're dying,
(33:06):
but I just I didn't understand, Like did he know
he just wanted to protect himself enough to make it
through the crowd, probably just to enough to get himself
to the other side to hand off Mo. Yeah, okay.
So Wendell says, why don't you, why don't you cut
open a walker and spread the walker guts on you
to keep you safe and then just walk out there?
(33:29):
And he says, oh, there's no time for that. Why
how long does it take to cut a walker up
and throw the guts on yourself? Two minutes? And then
he says, and Mo wouldn't survive. MO wouldn't survive. What
what are you talking about? You have Mo under a
metal baby, Bjorn. You put the blood on your arms,
in your face so the walkers don't bother you, and
you walk through the crowd. So that was that was writing.
(33:52):
That was partially good writing. They wanted to explain why
he didn't put the blood on the walker guts because
what would we do? Jamie would say, why wouldn't you
put the walker guts on? Right? Exactly? But we knew,
So they have Wendell asked about it, so that John
can tell you why he's not doing it. But they
they don't have a good reason for it. What what
they could have said was these walkers have radiation poisoning,
(34:14):
and I don't want to put the irradiated blood on
me and get it near Mo. That's what he should say.
They left that out, That's what you should have said. Oh,
there's no time for that is a stupid reason. Uh, hey,
you could save your life. There's no time for that.
Nobody's time for that. Yeah, you know, And wouldn't you
have planned ahead? Why wouldn't they have already while he
(34:36):
was getting the baby? You know, when he called everyone
to come down there, what they got Wendel in a
wheelchair down there? Somebody could have killed a walker and
got some blood on the man. Yeah, all right. So
I said, he's definitely gonna die, as he's given the
baby off. There's no way he's strand is unconscious. And
(34:59):
I've not sure where all the security gods are unless
John sent them away since John's now in charge, right, Like,
there's no security gods down there. He must have said, look,
I'm the number two guy now. He says to June,
thank you for teaching me and reminding me that it's
never too late to change. And I said, oh, he's
definitely gonna die. He's becoming more the moral compass, he's
he's he's learned a life lesson. Once you learned the
(35:22):
life lesson and you go right now, here's my second question.
He's got the armor, the football armor is not being
used right. Why wouldn't June put the football armor on
Grace m h and let Grace leave with the baby?
Why doesn't Grace? Why doesn't Grace want to escape? And
the last time they showed us, there was thousands of
(35:44):
walkers out there, So you're telling me that the side
of the building you're leaving is only maybe a hundred
now of all the people to go into John slash
Howard's apartment. West goes in the apartment for no reason.
Why would Wes be in Howard Slash John's apartment to
find Strand on the ground? Why would he be there?
(36:06):
There's no reason. The only reason that he's there is
so that he can say I'm the guy who saved
you and then follow him to the roof and then
ask him later to be his right hand man. Otherwise,
why would West wake him up? He'd be no reason
for West to be there. West doesn't have the West
has been there two days. He wouldn't have the balls,
(36:26):
he would have the balls to go into that apartment. No,
it doesn't make any sense to me. And I think
that's that's a fair point. I'm allowed to call bullshit
on that. West tells him the tower is flooded. There's
no way out of the tower, and Strand says he
sees all the armor and protective gear is missing from
the wall, and he says, nope, there's one way out.
The Uh. The walkers outside all have radiation. And John
(36:49):
is pushing his way through with his arms exposed, like
we talked about, his face completely exposed. He's wearing a helmet.
He's wearing a metal World War One helmet that only
covers the top of his head. There's nothing on his face.
What are you doing. You're protecting the top of your head.
You're protecting that well. First of all, walkers can't bite
(37:10):
your head. They can't bite into your skull. They mean
they can bite your skin a little bit. But the
helmet is not really gonna protect much. Then he puts
the cassette on. Grace convinced him to sing into the
cassette recorder, so he's playing himself singing in his chest protector.
The noise is attracting more walkers to him because he's
playing music of himself singing. Now of the thousands of
(37:35):
walkers outside the same way that Alicia saw her old
friend Howard, John sees Howard crawling on the ground as
a walker. That was gross. But there's a thousand walkers
out there. And again, how many sides to the building
are there? You happen to go out one corner of
the building and Howard just happens to be there. John
(37:59):
is being over well by the walkers, but he's pushing
through very slowly, very slowly. He's pushing. I'm pushing this
hundred walkers in his way. He's pushing his way through,
pushing his way through. West sees him in the crowd.
He sees John, and Strand says, he wanted to be
my partner, make this place a better place. But look
at him now. So then West says, are you looking
(38:19):
for a new partner? And Strand says, huh, you know what,
Go get me the old antenna from storage, and West
goes to the storage to get the old antenna. Does
West know where the storage is? That is the first
thing I thought. I thought you just came here. How
the hell do you know where the story. Did he
give him a tour? And why would he give him
a tour? If? If, if the guy you could trust him? Yet, yeah,
(38:41):
you didn't think you could trust um? What's your face, Charlie?
But now you automatically trust West and you're gonna let
him go by himself to the storage room, through the
through the place alone. Oh my lord. He says, I'm
gonna help you bring Morgan down on the phone. They're like, okay,
we believe you. So Morgan is at the call box
on that little podium, so he's raised up and he's safe,
(39:03):
and he's staring. He has the stick with him, his weapon.
He's staring at John sr. Struggling to get through. It
was really sad, and Morgan isn't helping him there. Morgan
could have gone down, stamped four or five walkers, grabbed
the baby, pulled him to safety, and ran back up
on the call box tower exactly. But instead he's like,
(39:25):
come on, man, you I've got faith in you. Are
you the man? Okay? John is overwhelmed by the walkers
and he's just about to collapse. The whole time, I'm thinking,
you're just so stupid. If he would have fallen down forward,
he would have crushed the baby, and if he falls backwards,
(39:46):
they're eventually going to get in there and rip the
baby apart. He's dead. So it was awfully stupid. Awfully stupid.
The guards come and arrest Wendell, John and June. I'm sorry,
the guards come and arrest Wendell, June and Grace who
just standing there like idiots watching John. That's what obviously
it's like. Get back in the tower, go about your duties,
act like this didn't happen. Let's you're not to stand
(40:08):
at the gate and watch him. Right. If you leave
fast enough, maybe when they come down looking for John,
they won't see him in the middle of the pack exactly.
H Strand makes it makes a threatening message over the
antenna because he's now broadcasting his signal. Why would they
take the antenna off the tower. Wouldn't they leave it
up up on the roof. It doesn't it doesn't make sense.
(40:30):
He tells Morgan the war has just begun and that
he has his people in the tower, and if Morgan
cares about those people, he better not set one foot
in the tower, or I will kill Grace in June. Okay,
I have a question John chose Morgan by the way
that he's been bitten on the shoulder and uh, he's
he can't make it. So John says, I'm gonna I'm
(40:52):
gonna buy you some time. I'm gonna buy you some time. Okay,
a couple of things. The walkers walk really slowly. They
could have outrun them. John didn't have a bad leg.
And so John walks into the herd of walkers. Ten
of them surround him, and the other a thousand just
stop and don't go after Morgan. But but it's not
(41:15):
like they all went towards John once. John didn't, right,
so you didn't buy him any time. I gonna buy
you time. What did you do? You stopped ten walkers
out of a thousand, and the rest of them are
like you gonna standing here? And Morgan walked away with
the baby. So here's my question to your Jamie, my
co host Jamie from Light FM in New York. Strand
(41:36):
says to Morgan. Now, he says to Morgan, I'm gonna
repeat what I said, Morgan. If you set one ft
in this tower, I'm gonna kill Grace and June. Right
mm hmm. First of all, Strange should have said you
stole the baby. I'm killing Grace right now. Second. Second
of all, you've just spent the entire episode talking about
(41:57):
how that baby is your legacy. You want nothing more
than that baby. That baby is the most important thing
in the world to you. Yea, So why don't you
tell Morgan bring the baby back? Or I throw Grace
and June off the roof and I'll let you hear it.
Bring the baby back, leave the baby on the by
the call by the call box. But no, he says,
(42:17):
all right, he changes the rules. All right, Morgan, um,
don't come back. But but if you do come, If
you do, I'll kill them. So the last thing I
want you to do is come back. But it's the
first thing you want him to do anything. The writing
on this, I wish I could be there when they
write the thing, where I could just sit there with
(42:39):
my my my bagel and just say, what are you
talking about? What are you talking about? Seriously? This? I'm God,
forgive me the last half of the season. Yeah, but
every every season so far, the second half of the
season has been bad. Okay uh. Scenes from the next episode,
(43:00):
Alicia and Morgan are talking about invading the tower. Alicia says,
our people aren't ready. Morgan says, it's gonna be unguarded
for a little while. We've gotta move now. Dwight and
Sherry are inflating a raft. Lucian is there for some reason.
She's still alive. Bad stuff, bad stuff happens, dirt falls,
there's explosions, whatever. And I said to myself and I
(43:21):
wrote it down. Anything that happens at this point, that's bad.
Anyone Strand kills, anyone that dies in the war, it's
John's fault. M hm. Because John could have killed Strand
and ended this and be done with it. He had
the golden opportunity moment and he just ran away. What
(43:42):
was the purpose of leaving Strand alive? If you know
he's an evil son of a bitch, and you know
exactly and you knew when you when you if you
escaped with baby Mo, he was gonna kill Grace and June. Yeah,
and he had one bullet. Come on, John, unbelievable, he
had the one bullet to kill May mean they should
do like I Fear The Walking Dead eight episodes and
(44:03):
call it a day. I'm not going to disagree with
you on that. I think when I said to you.
Did you enjoy the episode? You should have said I
enjoyed the first half? I guess. Yeah, yeah, that's about right.
All right, I'm out of breath, and I don't I
don't know if people are tired of me, uh finding
fault with the show, but everyone on Twitter seems to
agree with me, so and you. So hopefully we're doing
(44:25):
the Lord's people for the people's work for the people
for the people. All Right, Jamie, I think it's time.
I'm out of breath. I think it's time. What time
is it? Have a happy birthday? All right, but you
didn't hear what I said. It's time for you to
have a happy birthday. Oh but let's try that again.
(44:48):
You are well happy happy, uh sixty third birthday? Oh
they that old already. Wow, but you don't look at
day over fifty. So that's good. Oh, thank you? Yeah
for the real quick you met You didn't get to
meet Norman. Read's really right? Yes, I didn't tell you guys. Yeah,
so bookends in Ridgard, New Jersey. I went on Monday,
(45:10):
May nine, and Norman has a new book out called
The Ravage, And unfortunately we didn't get to So the
bookstore is a little strict. So Norman's very cool, but
the bookstore did not let us take photos with him,
and he was not allowed to put our name in
the book, and we had to put our phones away
after we got to like a certain point in the line.
(45:30):
But when I did go up to him, I said,
I was like, oh, somebodys didn't see you. Again. He
goes again, he goes, where did we meet? And I
said your archill. He goes, oh, in the city, and
then my mom said yeah, and you gave her your
umbrella and the rain. He goes, I remember that night,
and then I introduced it to my mom. He signed
a book and then we had to leave. So it
was He's always gracious and kind as always, but unfortunately
(45:51):
there was not an opportunity to get a picture with him. Yeah. Also,
if when he said to you, where have I met
you before? Had you truthfully answered that, the line would
have packed up out onto the street. Okay, it was
my sixth time meeting him. Full disclosure. Ye that's right,
I've I've only met him twice, right, yeah, twice, once
(46:12):
at the the convention with you in l A No.
Then three where the one jingle bowl. I said, that. Oh,
that's what I didn't meet him, and that when you
met him there yet? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, okay, all right,
very good. So yeah, you're kitchen up. No not, you
met him acgown. You're distancing from you was five three.
(46:32):
You're not very good at math. Wait a minute, I
had it up a little bit. I was leading you
by two, not leading you by three. Brody, you're gaining
on me. Yes in reverse world. Yes, yes, if this
was golf, i'd be winning. I have a lower score.
That is true. That is true. All right, Jamie, Now
do you know what time it is? What time is it?
It's time to shut this ship down.
Charge here. The rules are Welcome to Walkers and Talkers
Episode to nineteen. I'm David Brodie from Elvinstraight in the
Morning Show, and that is Jamie from Light to f M.
Hi Jamie, Hello, how are you? We are recording this
on Friday the thirteen, which I guess is uh, I
don't know, means something to some people. Are you not
(00:28):
someone who believes in that crap? Are you? Um? No,
not really. I kind of like Freda And it's my
birthday tomorrow, so I'm in a good mood. It's it's
a good week. I was gonna say that it's your birthday.
I was gonna give you props birthdays May four. Yes,
depending on when you hear this, please wish Jamie a
happy birthday at the Talking Jamie on Instagram and Twitter,
(00:48):
and go ahead and wish your happy birthday on at
Walker's Underscore Talkers. Thank you. And if you want to
wish me a belated happy birthday from January at David Brody,
You're more than welcome to do that. All right, let's
get right into it. We got a weekend to kick off,
and I need to get this thing edited and up. Boy, Jamie,
the episode is called sunny Boy. Did you like it? Um?
(01:09):
I did like it? It was good. It was okay, Yeah,
like like it. It was great, it was decent, it
was fine. It was I mean, it wasn't the best room.
It was okay. Here's my theory up front. I don't
think Fear The Walking Dead's gonna last past season eight.
I'm kind of agreeing with you on that. I know
the network picked it up. I think that either people
(01:30):
are jumping ship because the creativity on that show is
losing it and people want off, or they really only
have a year left maybe, or they're cutting budget. They're
getting rid of the expensive people. I mean, not that
Charlie is expensive, but you now have Charlie on Death Store.
A big name died this week. We'll get to it.
I'll give my opinion on the death this week. But
(01:52):
people are dying who like we knew he was gonna
die because he told us he was dying, so he
went out and to blaze of glory guess in slow motion? Um, yeah, again,
nobody's getting eaten by accident. They're all sort of set
themselves up, and I've got some major bullshit to call
on the protective gear. So we'll get to that. Overall,
(02:14):
I thought the episode was I mean, it was nice
to see it. It's always nice when the right people die.
So that's good, all right. The episode Sunny Boy starts
off with John. I'm not gonna call him John Senior
anymore because John Junior is dead. Spoiler just John, Okay.
That John is practicing his speech he wants to give
to Victor, and he's reciting it to June. He's gonna
tell Strand that he needs a new right hand man,
(02:37):
that a leader is only as strong as his second
in command. As he's talking to June, you see a
montage of Victor's men going through people's rooms, ripping open mattresses,
looking under drawers, looking for walkie talkies, which they find
in a bunch of people's rooms. No explanations how they
got there, how they got all these walkie talkies inside
the building? Why bother explaining anything? Right? So, this relatively woman,
(03:00):
maybe she's in the thirties, I don't know. Uh, they
found a walkie talkie in her room, so rather than
ask her about it, maybe it was planted, Maybe you know,
she found it. Whatever reason, Strand is paranoid. He thinks
it's part of a coup plot to overthrow him, and
they throw this poor woman off the roof. Oh my god,
it was so awful to watch. Why is there no
(03:21):
jail cell? Why is there no option to put someone
in a cell until you find the truth out? Seriously,
it's instant death over the roof. Over the roof, you're out.
And he's holding the baby as these people die, which
I thought was extra often. So John just stands there
and watches all these people go over one after the other.
Howard's throwing people. Howard in one of the henchmen, throwing
people off the roof, one after the other, one after
(03:42):
the other. Anyone who had a walkie talk He's going
over the side. So June tells John the speech is
not gonna work because Strand likes Howard too much, and
Howard is a yes man. He says, Strand has been
paranoid since Morgan poisoned him, and there might be a
resistance forming, and that's why he's cracking down on everybody,
So this might be my chance to get him all
(04:02):
he's paranoid. Yeah. Charlie calls from the other room for help,
and she looked like ship. Charlie looked like I mean,
she looked like she had a bad sunburn. But she's
she's dying and it's a slow, ugly death. Hear, Oh, yeah,
it's okay. And again she killed Nick. Spoiler, she killed Nick.
But I don't know. I mean, she seemed okay at
(04:23):
the end. She's now that she's older, and you know,
everybody kills everybody. She turned her out a little bit. Yeah,
all right. Anyway, John is convinced he can get through
the Victor and change him, and June says, no, you can't.
Your son tried to change Virginia. That didn't work out
very well. A soldier comes in the room and says
they found another waukee. This time it's in Howard's room.
John says, I didn't put it there, but hey, look
this is my chance, right how it's gonna look bad.
(04:46):
I can weasel my way into Victor's good graces. Sneaky, sneak.
So John goes to see Victor in his office and
he gives them the speech that we heard him practicing.
And the next thing you see, they're up on the
roof and two men are holding how World over the ledge.
Well Strand is prepared to throw him overboard because he
had a walkie in his room, as if like that's
(05:07):
the be all end, all right. Seriously, Howard is screaming,
this place is everything to me. I would never betray you.
Somebody planned diwalkee, so I knew at that point he
didn't do it. I mean, he's not his walkie talkie.
But more importantly, he's Howard right, it was his building originally.
What would be the crime of having a walkie talking?
(05:29):
He's upper management, he's the right man. Why would it
be a problem for him having I don't understand why
it would be a problem for him. And never walkie talking?
What would be the big deal? And and and get this.
If you're in charge of your men searching the building
for walkie talkies, why would you leave one in your
own room? Oh you tell Strand, Hey, just so you know,
(05:51):
I've got a walkie talkie. I got a piece of
tape on it. It's mine. It's for when you and
I talk. Oh, okay, not a problem. The whole thing
made no sense. Why why would anyone believe you? And
and Victor and Howard have built this tower together for
what six months? Whatever it's been from scratch. Howard has
done everything to show his loyalty. First really saved Strand's life.
(06:12):
He let him live in the tower. He's been He
fed him gourmet meals, he made him the ruler of
the tower. He let out. Let's Strand take the power
from him. He's killed people for first Strand, he's living
the life as the second in charge. Why would he
want to overthrow Strand? It doesn't make any sense. And
I know Strand is paranoid, but why would you be
paranoid that the guy closest to you, who's been the
(06:34):
most loyal because he's a walkie talkie in his room,
put him in a jail. Put him in a jail cell.
So Strand says, regardless of how the walkie talkie got there,
I can't believe a word. You say, what what does
that mean? If diwalkeie talkie was planted there? Why would
why would you not be able to believe him? Oh? Lord?
He says, I need proof that you're you're on my side,
(06:55):
and says, John's gonna get me proof. How do you
prove someone's loyalty? The guy already proved lowty for the
last six months or whatever. The phone rings and John
answers it and says Strand, we have bad news. The
baby is missing. So Howard says, let me find the baby,
and Strand says, I don't trust you. And then Howard says, well,
let me prove to you can trust me and have
rangers follow me everywhere. Strand says, all right, go find
(07:18):
the baby by sunrise, or I'll finish what we started
and throw you off the roof again. I don't okay,
it doesn't make any sense. Strand and John have a
little heart to heart conversation. Strand says he wants John
to go after the baby and find her, and that
he's betting on John. He says, I know the dory spirit.
We saw your son make a raft out of an
old truck to find June. I know you can do it.
(07:39):
This tower is bigger than both of us, but it's
my legacy. John says, well, your legacy can slip away
from you if you don't do things the right way.
Too many people are getting hurt and they don't need to.
I too, did the wrong thing for the right reason,
and it haunted me. Oh. John interrogates everyone, including June,
(08:01):
and she cracks like an egg and confesses to John
that Morgan won't attack the tower as long as the
baby is there, but if the baby is gone, Strand
would lose all leverage. And John says, so it's true,
there is a resistance and you're part of it, and
June says, unless you know the better, she was an
easy crack, Yeah, I can I can trust you. Just
distract Howard. So John realizes now that Howard is not
(08:24):
part of it, at least part of the resistance. At
least that's what at this point of the show we're
led to believe. He asks Horror if she planted dwalkie
and she says, no, it wasn't me. So at that
point did you think it Who did you think it was?
Who planned Dwaukee? I thought it was either June or John.
Somebody was lying, right, and June would have confessed to it,
so I think right, So I knew it had to
(08:46):
be John. John had the most to gain by planning
the wall, absolutely most. So when she walks away, he
notices the bottom of her feet are wet because she's
leaving tracks along the floor, so he knows whether she's
been She's been somewhere, whether it's been at John tells Howard,
by the way, just you know, I'm also helping to
look for the baby. And John starts interrogating him and
(09:07):
asked him about his family because Strand said he had
a wife and a kid. And Howard says, my wife
and kid left me before the apocalypse. And he goes
on to tell his story about how he he was
an historian in Texas and he claimed to have discovered
the second part of a very famous letter, and he
became a celebrity, and then they found out he forged
it and his wife left him because, yeah, his wife
(09:28):
left him because she felt he cared more about making
history and being famous than taking care of his own family.
Howard says his goal is to find his family and
show him all this history that he gathered, all these artifacts,
and all the things he's achieved at the tower. It's
my legacy and that and that, and then that's how
I show compassion. So I want to bring my family here.
(09:48):
So what Howard's saying is his wife and daughter, his
wife and kid, his son left him at this point,
like years ago, yeah, before the apocalypse, three or four
years ago, whatever it's been walking Dead timeline. He has
no clue where they went nuclear bombs dropped on the area,
and he still thinks not only are they alive, but
(10:09):
they'd want to find him in a miscellaneous tower when
they don't want to be near him in the first place.
I don't think so. So that's not that's not smart planning. Anyway,
A few guards come into the Howard's office and say, look,
we've searched a file a five mile radius and the
whole tower. We can't find the baby. Howard says, well,
search the tower again, damn it, and John says, let
(10:29):
me ask you a question. How do you feel about
all the people you threw off the roof? And he says,
my family finds the tower, it will all be worth it.
I get that, I mean worth it to you, But
that's what What does your family say if they find
out you're the you killed all these people? And then
what do you tell strand when your family arrives, I
no longer throw people off the roof exactly, I'm not
(10:50):
going to follow your orders anywhere. What are you gonna say, idiot?
All right, I'm all frustrated, Jamie, I gotta take a break.
What what I what ide do you want to hear?
How about Emily Kinney. Oh, Emily Kinney, I played Beth
on The Walking Dead. All right, noble, noble choice. Here
you go. Here's Beth. We'll be right back. Hi. This
is Emily Kinney Beth on The Walking Dead, and you're
(11:12):
listening to David Brody and Jamie on the Walkers and
Talkers podcast. All right, did you enjoy your bath? I did?
She's so sweet. God, that's a law. You didn't hear
it because I didn't play it, but I never remember
what it sounds like. Yes, yes, absolutely, Okay. So June
is in the basement killing walkers that are barricaded with sandbags.
That is an opening to the basement where walkers can
(11:34):
easily come in, and they barricaded it with a four
ft high wall of sand bags. That doesn't seem like
the best they could have done. They could have probably
done better than that. I think they could have done better.
John comes down and finds her, and he says he
knew she was there because it gets muddy down there
when it rains, and she was tracking mud across the room.
He hears a baby crying in a box nearby. Did
(11:57):
you notice they put the baby in a box? Yeah?
Like how about some ventilation, some air holes, something good.
Nobody puts baby in the box, by the way, And
this is this is nothing dramatic. It's I just it's
something I've noticed because I went back and looked. Have
you noticed the baby really looks nothing like its parents? Yeah?
I don't know, that's it. I remember the mom. I
(12:19):
don't even remember. Yeah, I just I don't think it.
I just the baby doesn't seem to look like the parents,
that's all. It just seems like strange casting. I feel
like it's like somebody who works on the show wanted
their kid in the show. The kids. Yeah, all right.
John finds a bag with supplies, including a football helmet
(12:40):
and a mask. This is the gear that I Issia
Tyler war right right, that and the football mask and
whole thing. June says, I'm gonna wear this get up
because it worked the last time. And John John says,
looks at the water starting to rock build up behind
the walkers, the rains coming down, and so June says, look,
Organ's not far away. He's ready to take the baby,
(13:02):
and I have to do it tonight. Well why do
you have to do it tonight? But she has to
do it tonight. Coincidence timing bullshit. As they're standing there,
a flood of water comes in behind the walkers and
knocks the waters down, knocks the sand sand bag barricade down,
knocks the gate down on June and John. The gate
traps June. John gets up and goes to shoot a
walker with his his old gun, and the walker knows
(13:26):
how to disarm him like a karate expert. Seriously, that's
the good right out of his hand. Come on, now,
The walkers move like really slowly, and he's like, yeah,
the man is a trained police officer and he yeah,
And then he knocked the gun out of John's hand
into the water where you're not gonna be able to
find it. The water is muddy, dirty water, murky and dirty.
(13:49):
You can't see your own foot. Now, you would think
he won't be able to find it, but oh no,
it wasn't difficult. Actually it was super easy, barely an inconvenience.
If you know what that means, please tweet me. All right.
So he uses the gate to push all the walkers down,
and it fits perfectly over the alcove where the baby is,
so they're able to use the part of the gate
(14:11):
to lock themselves in, and it's up a step so
the walkers can't get them all. Very convenient, but the
gate isn't attached right. The gate is leaning against the
alcove and neither of them is holding the gate up,
so the walkers are banging against it, but it doesn't fall.
Isn't it amazing? Yeah? They can reach right through. Like
when Arnold was in the cage, they reached right through
(14:32):
and ate him up and get his legs right there.
They were able to grab him. They were able to
grab him and make his legs stick out. But these
walkers don't reach over and grab them at all. They
don't do anything. They're just like, can't get this defence.
What are you gonna do? They're just gonna keep circling around.
They're walk They have no um, no work ethic, these walkers.
(14:52):
John takes the baby out of the box and says,
we gotta head towards the elevators, and she says, what
are you talking about. You know I'm gonna go bring
the baby to Morgan and he says, I'm going to
cement my legacy. We have to protect this baby now.
He wants his legacy. So nobody chasing these legacies. He says,
you get to the elevator. I gotta get to my
(15:13):
gun and clear some of them out. And June says,
you came down here to help me or yourself, and
he says, no, I came down here to help the baby.
And then he sings two lines of sunny Boy to
the baby that his son used to like. And then
it's like, then it's weird. Now he's like treating the
baby like it's his son. Meanwhile, thank you for saying that.
I thought it was so weird. Then it took a
(15:33):
turn and the rest of the episode it's like it's
his child. He became like you know on these TV
shows with a crazy woman kidnapped someone else's baby, yes,
or remember when the when the when the crazy lady
actually kidnapped the baby from Morgan and Grace in the car? Right,
the woman thought it was her baby, Yep, when they
drove into like that's a classics like, uh says symptom
(15:54):
of a mother. Right, it's the greatest baby ever. He's like,
I have to protect this baby. What you didn't care
about the baby all this time? You didn't try to
rescue the baby and get it to me, Yeah, it's
it's Morgan's baby, Grace's baby. It's not your baby. He's like,
I'm gonna do for this baby what I couldn't do
my own son. All Right, you know what, your son
(16:15):
is still dead. Well, it's not gonna help anybody anyway.
John says, we have to get this baby upstairs. He
has a chance of a good life here with the
tower and Victor, and June says that's crazy, and John
says it has to work. I put all of this
in motion. I planted the walkie on and Howard's room,
so now he cracks like an egg. Everyone's cracking. What
(16:37):
I don't understand is why would you yell that if
you don't know who could be at the top of
the steps at any moment. Seriously, because, as it turns out,
thirty seconds later they show up, right, So why wouldn't
Why would you yell I planted the walkie that loud,
so loud, so loud. So June says, you're doing it again,
(16:59):
like when you planet evidence to catch Teddy. He says,
I abandoned my son. I won't let that happen again.
I won't let that happen to this kid. Look what
happened to Charlie. So John says, I'm gonna get through
the walkers, and he's holding the baby and trying to
find his gun in the water. So he runs in.
June puts on the football gear. Uh, and John's gonna
go run into the water carrying the baby and look
(17:20):
for his gun. So that's the plan. John's gonna run
into the walkers with the with the baby on his
while he's holding the baby and with his other hand
reach into into dirty water and hope he can hope
he can find a gun. Yeah, there it is, the
dirty water. There it is. So the plan doesn't work.
(17:43):
He finds the gun, he's almost out of bullets. He
shoots everyone like a bunch of them. He has one
bullet left. And at that point I said, oh, he's
got one bullet left. He's either gonna kill himself, he's
gonna he's gonna he's gonna. Someone's gonna die with that one.
There's a reason why he made one point to say
there's one bullet left, right, There's there's a reason. As
it turns out, well, i'll tell you later. It turns
out so miraculously June is able to push off seven
(18:07):
or eight walkers with her armor. She's pushing them off,
pushing them off, and she tells him to run. Now.
I don't know why the walkers um didn't like try
to reach into her football helmet to scratch her face
or whatever. Yeah, but John refuses to run down the
hallway to safe and then before and then a minute
later there's walkers in the hallway, so he wouldn't have
(18:29):
gotten away anyway. I don't have there walkers in the
getaway hallway. But there's walkers in the getaway hallway. Now
they're all coming in. They run back behind the gate
and there's a call box there. UH to to call whoever,
and he tells June, call whoever whoever has been helping
you to come help us. I want to protect Mo
because she won't survive outside. I don't want her to
end up like Charlie. And then says, look, I don't
(18:52):
want to end up like me. I don't have a
lot of time left. And he lifts up his shirt
and he's got radiation burns on his abdomen. At some point,
he says he got the radiation when he went looking
for Charlie. When Charlie went looking for elevator parts yea
that he must have gotten too close to her an
irradiated walker. So June calls on the thing for Grace
to come help. Grace were down here, come help me,
(19:13):
and then a while goes by, nobody shows up and
he says, look, I must he says. Um. June says,
I don't know how much time you have left, and
he's like, yeah, I don't know. I don't know how
bad this is, but I'm definitely dying. Strand and Howard
show up and shoot the walkers that are blocking June
and John, and they say, look, we stopped Grace in
(19:35):
the elevator because it was obvious she she wasn't supposed
to be there. We didn't know where she was going,
and we found out she was coming here, and how
It says, looks like we caught the resistance. So at
that point, did you think they were going to arrest
both of them? I did. I thought, oh, John is
caught right handed, but not really so Howard. He is
(19:56):
the baby crying, and he goes and he takes the
baby out of the out of the box. My thought
was they needed help, right, they were trapped. Why would
you call Grace if your plan was to go back upstairs,
why wouldn't you call Strand and say, hey, we found
the baby in the basement. June and I found the baby,
but now we're trapped exactly. That's what you say there.
(20:18):
They don't think anything. They're the dumbest people. So John
has that look on her face like funk, I'm busted explicit,
and and John's like John looked guilty. Also, like John
could have said, oh, I found the baby or or
or we found the baby. Thank god you're here. We
found the baby down here, the walkers were here. We
fought our way through the walkers. Howard says, look, I
(20:41):
told you I would find her, and Strand says, no,
you didn't. He found her meaning Strang meaning John. He
looks so dejected. But technically John found the baby because
he found June with the baby. But Howard found the
baby because he found them and he found they our
grace right now, technically, if John brought the baby back upstairs,
(21:05):
Howard wasn't needed. But he did it. To Strand's mind,
a normal person, he did find the baby. Yeah, they
all leave John and June in the basement, they take
the baby, they leave, so at this point, I don't
know if he's just happy to have the baby back
or he's convinced they're the ones who kidnapped her and
he'll deal with them later. We don't know. So cut
(21:26):
to Strand on the roof with John and Howard, who
have their backs to the to the ledge of the building, which,
by the way, why would you have a stand by
the ledge of the building? Never not with them around,
and Strand gives them a speech about civilization standing and
people having to be unified, and how It says, hey, man, look,
I've been with you since the beginning. And John says,
(21:46):
I believe in this place just as much as he does.
I think this is the best place for the child
to have a chance to survive. And Strand says, if
you truly believe in this place, John push Howard over
the roof, and how It says, way in a d
you what are you talking about? I found the baby?
And Strand says, I said I would spare you if
you found the baby and you didn't. Okay, God, okay,
(22:08):
but you haven't proven he's a trader. He could still
be loyal to you even though he didn't find the baby. Yeah,
Howard says, I don't deserve this, and John says he's right,
it doesn't deserve this. I planted the walkie. So at
that point, Jamie, did you think he was going over? Like?
Did you think I did you think he was taken
(22:30):
the blame for the walkie? Because Howard has a family,
he felt bad and he knows he's dying anyway. I
think he just wanted to confess and he knew he
was daying anyway. But I thought they were going to
push John off the while. That's what I'm saying. I
think John was trying to save Howard's life. Strand is
so unhinged. Yeah, but I think what I'm saying is
I think John felt bad for Howard a little bit
(22:51):
that he was innocent, but also because he knows he
thought at the time Howard had a wife and a kid,
and he doesn't know he didn't. He's done a lot
of bad things, but he doesn't deserve to die now,
not now. So I thought John, knowing John was gonna die,
he was gonna let throw him over the roof. Other way,
even if I'm dying from radiation poisoning, I don't want
to get thrown off a roof, cracked my skull, open
a break boat, and then getting eaten by a walker.
(23:12):
That's until they eat you. Yeah, like a couple of
the people. Strand says, you did that. You planted the
walkie just to gain audience with me. That shows you
really are invested, like like, oh my god, Like that's
a mafia thing, like on the Sopranos. You're like, yeah,
you killed my cousin to get my attention. Wow, here's
(23:34):
my attention, all of it. He says. I like that.
I like that a lot, But you still need to
do the other thing I asked you to do, in
other words, throw out off the roof. John says, I
won't do it, especially since now you know Howard didn't
do anything wrong. What did he do? Now? And why
would anyone trust Strand as a leader if your most
loyal guy didn't do anything. You just proved he didn't
(23:56):
do anything. You wanted proof. He just told you I
planned the walkie and you're gonna throw him over the
roof anyway, what did he do? Oh my god? All right,
So John says I won't do it, and Strand says,
all right, then I'll bring Grace up here or in
June and we'll throw them off the roof. So John
grabs Howard and Howard says, no, John, please don't. And
(24:16):
he says, I'm sorry, Howard, but you did a lot
worse to people for far less, and he throws him
over the side. Oh boom. And so here's where I'm
king as a contradiction. If you're trying to save his
life by saying you planted the walkie talking, why would
you then eagerly throw him over the roof and say
you've done a lot worse for less. Yes, yes, it's
(24:40):
so cool. I guess he can't break his pattern of
Strand like he has to show him. Listen, I'm on
your side, and I did do this again an audience
in Yeah. But he didn't know Strand would react that way.
He didn't know Strand would say, oh, I like that
you planted the walkie. He had no way of knowing
that anyway. Strand says, it's just as well that he
threw him over the side. His family would never have
found this place. And John says, why is that? And
(25:02):
Strand says, because we found them months ago. They had
turned They had already turned way before we found them.
And so he says, well, why don't you tell him
that he's because it kept him motivated to help me
build this place, hoping his family would show up. And
it worked until until today. And Strand says to him, well,
you can have Howard's apartment. So then Strand says to John,
(25:25):
was it you John that said you're only as good
as your partner? Well, here's to a great partnership. So
now he's using John's own words against him to say, like,
you're my new partner. How great is this? And and
so I this, this is what I wrote. John looks
like he wants to vomit. The next scene. The next scene,
he's vomiting. But I did I didn't write that in
(25:49):
his script. No, Now, I think he was vomiting from
the radiation. But I thought he looked like he wanted
a vomit because he can't believe what he did, Like
he got in bed with a with a crazy man,
and he's been watching people die in hopes of being
able to convince Victor to do it, to to run
the place a better way. All Right, we're gonna talk
about how well that plan worked and a major major
(26:12):
mistake by John. Two major mistakes by John right after this, Hey, now,
what is going on? Beautiful people? My name is Sebastian
Selzie a k A. MIPS. I play Cole on Fear
of the Walking Dead and you were listening to my
pals David Brody and Jamie on the Walkers and Talkers podcast.
(26:32):
Peace and Love everybody, all right? John sits down in
Howard's chair, which is now his chair, and it happens
to be right near the picture of Howard and his
family and the bottle of liquor Howard was drinking out
of before that. He said that that uh that John
said no too earlier in the episode, so I don't
drink that stuff. Needless to say, John drinks a lot
(26:53):
of the bottle of liquor. Went to town, how well,
he's a professional drinker. Strand comes in with the baby.
He puts a record on the record player and he
makes it really loud, no one can hear them talk.
He says there's gonna be some changes around here. And John,
because he's an idiot like his son, who is dumb
as a brick, gets excited and says, Oh, you're gonna
(27:14):
listen to some of the changes I suggested, and Trance
Trand says, no, I know Grace and June went on
this whole thing. I'm gonna take soul custody of mo
and raise her in the penthouse by myself. Oh my god,
all these people want this baby. Yeah, so now he's
gonna take it away from its Well, Grace is not
really the mother, but she was raising it as so
(27:38):
John says, then what's my role? Well, I don't know why.
What's my role? As a question, it had nothing to
do with the baby. Why would his role change? You're
the right hand guy. You throw people off the roof.
That's your role. I don't know why he would ask.
Then what a minute, you're taking the baby? Then what's
my role? His role had nothing to do with the baby.
Now it does, because he says, your job to make
sure no one takes the baby. Oh so, I just it.
(28:00):
That was weird that he said, well, what's my role? Right?
It didn't make any sense. You know what your role is,
You do it how it did exactly. You're the new
Howard John. So we already know John thinks he's dying
and wants to protect the baby, and we also know
he's drunk at this point. I'm not sure why he
doesn't just kill Strand? Okay, that's what I wrote at
the time. John says, whatever you do, you'll never get
what you want from that baby, the love, the respect.
(28:21):
You'll only push her away. How does he know what
the baby is gonna do when it gets older? What
if the baby grows up to be a demented, sociopath narcissist.
Everyone has plans for this child as it's a girl
is older. This is like the ninth and John, and
John knows what's gonna happen with how the child is
gonna go. Strand says, oh, you're an expert. What happened
(28:42):
with you and your son? Like you're gonna give advice? Yeah? So,
John says, that's what I'm trying to get through to you.
But if if you really wanted the baby to love you,
then let me help you change how you do things
in the tower, Like let me make you a better person.
Strand says, if I wanted your counsel, I would ask,
and then for some reason he turns his back would
(29:02):
turn Yeah I thought that too, Like do you turn around?
I know you think he's loyal, but why would you
turn your back on anyone? First? Of all, you're in
a room talking to a guy. So why would you
stare out the window like a power move, like to
look out onto the what? There's nothing out there to
look out onto. Why would you look out the window?
There's nothing there? M hm. So John says, you're never
gonna listen to my ideas for you were you? And
(29:25):
Strand says, it's what I told you. Everyone needs something
to motivate them. See now, once you say that, you
no longer have any reason to motivate John. Wouldn't you
just say, yes, I'm gonna I'm contemplating your ideas and
I may put some of them in at least string
him along a little further. He says, what you did today,
John will long outlive you. It will. It will be
(29:46):
a legacy, his legacy that he threw Howard off the
roof and then he found the baby. John pulls his gun,
the one that has one bullet left, and points it
at Victor's head. So at that point, I'm thinking, I
you got the one bullet. Let's do this. But that's
what I thought. I'm like, let's do this thing. But
then I thought, you can't kill Strand Because the next
three episodes are the Big War, the big war that
(30:09):
we're waiting for, that Madison's gonna show up at some point,
that maybe Madison, maybe Madison kills Strand. I think, like
maybe that would be a good way to get rid
of Strand, if Madison kills him. Although I'm pretty sure
Alicia's dying this season, I'll tell you why. I think
she's done with the show. She's barely on the show.
They've made it to be an idiot, and she just
got a job as the lead in the show on Hulu. Oh.
(30:32):
I think they know she's leaving, and they and and
they have to bring in Madison salary, and that's why
they get rid of John. And they don't want to
have Charlie around because Madison will find out that she
killed Nick, so they get rid of her too. And
I think they're just clearing the way. And I think
Alicia's done for I think she's not going to survive
(30:52):
the war. I don't think she's I don't think she's
walker bitten. I just think she's gonna die either right
before Madison shows up or right after, which is why
I think, as I said before, I think I think
that's why they're both on the finale of Fear the
Walking Dead. But they are clearing house and I want
the Rabbi back, clearing house, b back. Where is he? John,
(31:14):
instead of shooting him, knocks him in the back of
the head and knocks him out with the gun. I
guess he's an expert on where to hit a guy
in the back of the head to knock him out.
He would that, I'll give it to him. He would
know where to hit you. Yeah, so John says, this
isn't my legacy. The baby is okay, Yeah, okay. If
I know, I know that John is a former police officer,
(31:36):
doesn't want to kill people if he doesn't have to.
But he just killed Howard for a reason, right, He
just watched all those people go over the roof because
his his goal was want to get him on his
good side, to get close to Strand. At that point,
why wouldn't you shoot Strand? Because you already know he's
a prick. You already know he's not going to change
the way he does things. And even if you escape
(31:57):
with the baby, he's gonna kill Gray sin June. Yeah,
he's a bad guy. You already told you. He's gonna
kill Grace and June and if you steal the baby,
he's absolutely gonna kill Grace. It's over. Yeah, So I
I didn't make any sense to me. So he takes
the walkie from Strand and calls Morgan. Somehow Morgan is
on the same walkie talk we frequency. I'm sorry, somehow
(32:22):
dis walkie talkie that Strand has is set to the
same frequency that Morgan is on. Already, He's like, at Morgan,
you stopt there. So he confirms Morgan is right outside
the walls, which again, if anyone's listening, that's you don't
want anybody to know that. He says, I'm bringing the
baby to you, Morgan. He takes a lot of Howard's artifacts,
his armor, his boxing gloves, his war helmet, and he
(32:43):
puts it on himself to keep it safe. But did
you notice his shoulders were exposed, his face was exposed, everything,
his arms, Like, why wouldn't you wear the football gear
that completely covered and protected you, you would think, And
if you're if you're that covered, uncovered, why would you
go out there and risk yourself? I know you're dying,
(33:06):
but I just I didn't understand, Like did he know
he just wanted to protect himself enough to make it
through the crowd, probably just to enough to get himself
to the other side to hand off Mo. Yeah, okay.
So Wendell says, why don't you, why don't you cut
open a walker and spread the walker guts on you
to keep you safe and then just walk out there?
(33:29):
And he says, oh, there's no time for that. Why
how long does it take to cut a walker up
and throw the guts on yourself? Two minutes? And then
he says, and Mo wouldn't survive. MO wouldn't survive. What
what are you talking about? You have Mo under a
metal baby, Bjorn. You put the blood on your arms,
in your face so the walkers don't bother you, and
you walk through the crowd. So that was that was writing.
(33:52):
That was partially good writing. They wanted to explain why
he didn't put the blood on the walker guts because
what would we do? Jamie would say, why wouldn't you
put the walker guts on? Right? Exactly? But we knew,
So they have Wendell asked about it, so that John
can tell you why he's not doing it. But they
they don't have a good reason for it. What what
they could have said was these walkers have radiation poisoning,
(34:14):
and I don't want to put the irradiated blood on
me and get it near Mo. That's what he should say.
They left that out, That's what you should have said. Oh,
there's no time for that is a stupid reason. Uh, hey,
you could save your life. There's no time for that.
Nobody's time for that. Yeah, you know, And wouldn't you
have planned ahead? Why wouldn't they have already while he
(34:36):
was getting the baby? You know, when he called everyone
to come down there, what they got Wendel in a
wheelchair down there? Somebody could have killed a walker and
got some blood on the man. Yeah, all right. So
I said, he's definitely gonna die, as he's given the
baby off. There's no way he's strand is unconscious. And
(34:59):
I've not sure where all the security gods are unless
John sent them away since John's now in charge, right, Like,
there's no security gods down there. He must have said, look,
I'm the number two guy now. He says to June,
thank you for teaching me and reminding me that it's
never too late to change. And I said, oh, he's
definitely gonna die. He's becoming more the moral compass, he's
he's he's learned a life lesson. Once you learned the
(35:22):
life lesson and you go right now, here's my second question.
He's got the armor, the football armor is not being
used right. Why wouldn't June put the football armor on
Grace m h and let Grace leave with the baby?
Why doesn't Grace? Why doesn't Grace want to escape? And
the last time they showed us, there was thousands of
(35:44):
walkers out there, So you're telling me that the side
of the building you're leaving is only maybe a hundred
now of all the people to go into John slash
Howard's apartment. West goes in the apartment for no reason.
Why would Wes be in Howard Slash John's apartment to
find Strand on the ground? Why would he be there?
(36:06):
There's no reason. The only reason that he's there is
so that he can say I'm the guy who saved
you and then follow him to the roof and then
ask him later to be his right hand man. Otherwise,
why would West wake him up? He'd be no reason
for West to be there. West doesn't have the West
has been there two days. He wouldn't have the balls,
(36:26):
he would have the balls to go into that apartment. No,
it doesn't make any sense to me. And I think
that's that's a fair point. I'm allowed to call bullshit
on that. West tells him the tower is flooded. There's
no way out of the tower, and Strand says he
sees all the armor and protective gear is missing from
the wall, and he says, nope, there's one way out.
The Uh. The walkers outside all have radiation. And John
(36:49):
is pushing his way through with his arms exposed, like
we talked about, his face completely exposed. He's wearing a helmet.
He's wearing a metal World War One helmet that only
covers the top of his head. There's nothing on his face.
What are you doing. You're protecting the top of your head.
You're protecting that well. First of all, walkers can't bite
(37:10):
your head. They can't bite into your skull. They mean
they can bite your skin a little bit. But the
helmet is not really gonna protect much. Then he puts
the cassette on. Grace convinced him to sing into the
cassette recorder, so he's playing himself singing in his chest protector.
The noise is attracting more walkers to him because he's
playing music of himself singing. Now of the thousands of
(37:35):
walkers outside the same way that Alicia saw her old
friend Howard, John sees Howard crawling on the ground as
a walker. That was gross. But there's a thousand walkers
out there. And again, how many sides to the building
are there? You happen to go out one corner of
the building and Howard just happens to be there. John
(37:59):
is being over well by the walkers, but he's pushing
through very slowly, very slowly. He's pushing. I'm pushing this
hundred walkers in his way. He's pushing his way through,
pushing his way through. West sees him in the crowd.
He sees John, and Strand says, he wanted to be
my partner, make this place a better place. But look
at him now. So then West says, are you looking
(38:19):
for a new partner? And Strand says, huh, you know what,
Go get me the old antenna from storage, and West
goes to the storage to get the old antenna. Does
West know where the storage is? That is the first
thing I thought. I thought you just came here. How
the hell do you know where the story. Did he
give him a tour? And why would he give him
a tour? If? If, if the guy you could trust him? Yet, yeah,
(38:41):
you didn't think you could trust um? What's your face, Charlie?
But now you automatically trust West and you're gonna let
him go by himself to the storage room, through the
through the place alone. Oh my lord. He says, I'm
gonna help you bring Morgan down on the phone. They're like, okay,
we believe you. So Morgan is at the call box
on that little podium, so he's raised up and he's safe,
(39:03):
and he's staring. He has the stick with him, his weapon.
He's staring at John sr. Struggling to get through. It
was really sad, and Morgan isn't helping him there. Morgan
could have gone down, stamped four or five walkers, grabbed
the baby, pulled him to safety, and ran back up
on the call box tower exactly. But instead he's like,
(39:25):
come on, man, you I've got faith in you. Are
you the man? Okay? John is overwhelmed by the walkers
and he's just about to collapse. The whole time, I'm thinking,
you're just so stupid. If he would have fallen down forward,
he would have crushed the baby, and if he falls backwards,
(39:46):
they're eventually going to get in there and rip the
baby apart. He's dead. So it was awfully stupid. Awfully stupid.
The guards come and arrest Wendell, John and June. I'm sorry,
the guards come and arrest Wendell, June and Grace who
just standing there like idiots watching John. That's what obviously
it's like. Get back in the tower, go about your duties,
act like this didn't happen. Let's you're not to stand
(40:08):
at the gate and watch him. Right. If you leave
fast enough, maybe when they come down looking for John,
they won't see him in the middle of the pack exactly.
H Strand makes it makes a threatening message over the
antenna because he's now broadcasting his signal. Why would they
take the antenna off the tower. Wouldn't they leave it
up up on the roof. It doesn't it doesn't make sense.
(40:30):
He tells Morgan the war has just begun and that
he has his people in the tower, and if Morgan
cares about those people, he better not set one foot
in the tower, or I will kill Grace in June. Okay,
I have a question John chose Morgan by the way
that he's been bitten on the shoulder and uh, he's
he can't make it. So John says, I'm gonna I'm
(40:52):
gonna buy you some time. I'm gonna buy you some time. Okay,
a couple of things. The walkers walk really slowly. They
could have outrun them. John didn't have a bad leg.
And so John walks into the herd of walkers. Ten
of them surround him, and the other a thousand just
stop and don't go after Morgan. But but it's not
(41:15):
like they all went towards John once. John didn't, right,
so you didn't buy him any time. I gonna buy
you time. What did you do? You stopped ten walkers
out of a thousand, and the rest of them are
like you gonna standing here? And Morgan walked away with
the baby. So here's my question to your Jamie, my
co host Jamie from Light FM in New York. Strand
(41:36):
says to Morgan. Now, he says to Morgan, I'm gonna
repeat what I said, Morgan. If you set one ft
in this tower, I'm gonna kill Grace and June. Right
mm hmm. First of all, Strange should have said you
stole the baby. I'm killing Grace right now. Second. Second
of all, you've just spent the entire episode talking about
(41:57):
how that baby is your legacy. You want nothing more
than that baby. That baby is the most important thing
in the world to you. Yea, So why don't you
tell Morgan bring the baby back? Or I throw Grace
and June off the roof and I'll let you hear it.
Bring the baby back, leave the baby on the by
the call by the call box. But no, he says,
(42:17):
all right, he changes the rules. All right, Morgan, um,
don't come back. But but if you do come, If
you do, I'll kill them. So the last thing I
want you to do is come back. But it's the
first thing you want him to do anything. The writing
on this, I wish I could be there when they
write the thing, where I could just sit there with
(42:39):
my my my bagel and just say, what are you
talking about? What are you talking about? Seriously? This? I'm God,
forgive me the last half of the season. Yeah, but
every every season so far, the second half of the
season has been bad. Okay uh. Scenes from the next episode,
(43:00):
Alicia and Morgan are talking about invading the tower. Alicia says,
our people aren't ready. Morgan says, it's gonna be unguarded
for a little while. We've gotta move now. Dwight and
Sherry are inflating a raft. Lucian is there for some reason.
She's still alive. Bad stuff, bad stuff happens, dirt falls,
there's explosions, whatever. And I said to myself and I
(43:21):
wrote it down. Anything that happens at this point, that's bad.
Anyone Strand kills, anyone that dies in the war, it's
John's fault. M hm. Because John could have killed Strand
and ended this and be done with it. He had
the golden opportunity moment and he just ran away. What
(43:42):
was the purpose of leaving Strand alive? If you know
he's an evil son of a bitch, and you know
exactly and you knew when you when you if you
escaped with baby Mo, he was gonna kill Grace and June. Yeah,
and he had one bullet. Come on, John, unbelievable, he
had the one bullet to kill May mean they should
do like I Fear The Walking Dead eight episodes and
(44:03):
call it a day. I'm not going to disagree with
you on that. I think when I said to you.
Did you enjoy the episode? You should have said I
enjoyed the first half? I guess. Yeah, yeah, that's about right.
All right, I'm out of breath, and I don't I
don't know if people are tired of me, uh finding
fault with the show, but everyone on Twitter seems to
agree with me, so and you. So hopefully we're doing
(44:25):
the Lord's people for the people's work for the people
for the people. All Right, Jamie, I think it's time.
I'm out of breath. I think it's time. What time
is it? Have a happy birthday? All right, but you
didn't hear what I said. It's time for you to
have a happy birthday. Oh but let's try that again.
(44:48):
You are well happy happy, uh sixty third birthday? Oh
they that old already. Wow, but you don't look at
day over fifty. So that's good. Oh, thank you? Yeah
for the real quick you met You didn't get to
meet Norman. Read's really right? Yes, I didn't tell you guys. Yeah,
so bookends in Ridgard, New Jersey. I went on Monday,
(45:10):
May nine, and Norman has a new book out called
The Ravage, And unfortunately we didn't get to So the
bookstore is a little strict. So Norman's very cool, but
the bookstore did not let us take photos with him,
and he was not allowed to put our name in
the book, and we had to put our phones away
after we got to like a certain point in the line.
(45:30):
But when I did go up to him, I said,
I was like, oh, somebodys didn't see you. Again. He
goes again, he goes, where did we meet? And I
said your archill. He goes, oh, in the city, and
then my mom said yeah, and you gave her your
umbrella and the rain. He goes, I remember that night,
and then I introduced it to my mom. He signed
a book and then we had to leave. So it
was He's always gracious and kind as always, but unfortunately
(45:51):
there was not an opportunity to get a picture with him. Yeah. Also,
if when he said to you, where have I met
you before? Had you truthfully answered that, the line would
have packed up out onto the street. Okay, it was
my sixth time meeting him. Full disclosure. Ye that's right,
I've I've only met him twice, right, yeah, twice, once
(46:12):
at the the convention with you in l A No.
Then three where the one jingle bowl. I said, that. Oh,
that's what I didn't meet him, and that when you
met him there yet? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, okay, all right,
very good. So yeah, you're kitchen up. No not, you
met him acgown. You're distancing from you was five three.
(46:32):
You're not very good at math. Wait a minute, I
had it up a little bit. I was leading you
by two, not leading you by three. Brody, you're gaining
on me. Yes in reverse world. Yes, yes, if this
was golf, i'd be winning. I have a lower score.
That is true. That is true. All right, Jamie, Now
do you know what time it is? What time is it?
It's time to shut this ship down.
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