April 10, 2024 • 30 mins
Civic Cipher co-host Q Ward joins Ramses Ja to discuss the music artist J Cole's decision to apologize to rapper Kendrick Lamar.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is the Black Information Network Daily podcast, and I
am your host Ramsey's job, and sometimes the amount of
stories that make their way to us means that we
simply can't cover everything that comes our way. But from
time to time, the story just stays with me and
fill compelled to share it with you and give you
my thoughts. And now one more thing. At the end
(00:23):
of the.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Day, when I listen to her and when it comes
out and I see the talk that I'm sitting right
in my spirit and trying to find a little angle
and down play his greatness, I want to say, right
now tonight, how many people think Kendrick Lamar is one
of the creators that that looks something spring Billy?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Y'all love Kendrick Lamar corrects, Do I So?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I just want to be to be like that was
the latest movie. And then it made me feel like
ten years ago when I was moving here correctly and
I prayed that God will line me back up on
my purpose and on my path.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
You know what I mean, I'm braided up. Kendrick really
didn't feel no way. And if he did, take your
best shout and take that to the chick. Do what
you do this love?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
You know, I pray that y'all ill like forgive the
this step and then I can get back to my
true path. Was like a lot of y'all past two
days felt and let me know how good I've been
sleeping for the past ten years. So all of that
to say, man, that's a reminder to me of getting
back on the right.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Path and getting in tune with God I want to get.
So that is the voice of J Cole. And if
you are a fan of hip hop music, you might
be familiar with the back and forth that has taken place,
I guess, starting with a song called First Person Shooter
(01:31):
with J Cole collaborating with Drake shouting out Kendrick Lamar
who wasn't on the song, and Kendrick had a response
track on a recent Future record and kendrickt Drake and
J Cole And this is kind of right up our
(01:56):
alley today. I'm joined by Qboard, the one person who
was more qualified to have this conversation with me than
anyone else because this is what we do. And we're
going to talk about beef in hip hop and J
Cole's apology to Kendrick Lamar, which you heard now for
(02:17):
those that don't know Again, Kendrick made the song with
Future dissing Drake and j Cole, and then Ja Cole
made a response to that song and he was basically
calling into question Kendrick's catalog and you know, just just bickering.
There wasn't there was no real substance to this beef.
(02:37):
It was just some bickering. I suspect, I'll say this up.
I suspect it might be staged because there's really no
nothing there but beef. In hip hop, we often have
to to deal with that. And you know, once upon
(02:58):
a time when Llo Cool Jay and Cannabis were going
back and forth, I thought it was so cool that,
you know, these people could be so creative and making
fun of each other. And then I realized what the
implications were. And you know, I think someone someone said
it recently, but you know, for every one rapper that
(03:20):
is successful, there are sixteen families, black families that depend
on that rapper's success. And I think even before we
get to that point, before we talk about economics, I
more than ever in this part of my life, am
a fan of black unity. If we have issues with
(03:42):
other black people, we like to handle them gracefully if
the cameras are on, and if the cameras are not
and we're behind the scenes, then we handle them with words,
not with violence, not with any of the more low
vibrational responses. And the reason we wanted to make the
(04:03):
show today is because I felt like J Cole's apology,
we're making a dis track that was appropriate given you know,
the sequence of events. J Cole's apology saying, you know what,
I'm I'm past that part of my life. I love him,
y'all love him. Ain't no reason for me to make
fun of him. If he had to diss me because
(04:24):
he needed to get that off, cool, if he needs
to dis me again because I made this response, I
got my chin out. But the truth is that's not
who I am right now. I apologize Kendrick him saying
that was so big and so far beyond a low
vibrational point, so far just a basic blood sport point
(04:44):
in his career that it deserves to be saluted. And
the fact is, there are a lot of people out
there who are saying, ah, you know, he punked out.
I hope Drake doesn't apologize. This is what hip hop
is all about, you know, blah blah blah. It's a
battle to blood sport. Everybody wants to be number one,
go for it. And I think that Jay Cole is
showing us that there's a different way to be successful,
(05:06):
to walk in your own truth, and to do so
without destroying everything in your path, with indeed building and
showing people how to build. And Q to that responded, well,
this conversation needs a little bit of nuance, So we thought,
why not turn on the cameras and have an old
school conversation like we used to do on Radio Solstice,
on Rhyman Reason, on any of our old shows, our
(05:28):
own radio shows that we used to do together. So
so that's obviously me rolling us into the conversation. Go ahead, QE.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Some I just think there's I don't think there's a
black and white right or wrong and how to respond
and instances like this, because to ignore battle raps place
in hip hop would be disingenuous.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
From two hip hop DJs, absolutely a kind of whack right.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
The entire history of this sport of hip hop has
been the battle component. It kind of started there where
the MC's would highlight the DJs, and the battle was
more about how much more dope my DJ is than yours,
and then it transitioned into the MC's having those battles themselves.
I think we got to see so many different variations
(06:13):
of this, and where j Cole should be celebrated is
making sure this doesn't veer into something where I'm giving
people the impression that I don't love and respect that
king over there. I think that's what he's trying to avoid,
and I think what some of the pushback against that
is is those that I think understand that Kendrick respects
(06:34):
and loves j Cole too. Most of the disc was
about Drake. If you break down the lyrics and like that,
the metro booming in Future track that Kendrick kind of
jumped off the porch on. But even then, they're not
personal attacks in the in the in the disk track,
you know, there's subliminals in undos and ntondrous based on
titles of songs and albums and kind of just saying, yo,
(06:57):
I'm the best, come at me. And then this is
the first time Kendrick has done this. The last time
he did this might have been ten years ago, but
he called out everybody like every active rapper got their
name everybody on the same song with yeah, and no
one responded ironically, So I think it was kind of
(07:18):
just Kendrick doing that Kendrick thing again, reasserting himself as
the greatest.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
He didn't.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
There were no personal dishes at Drake or J Cole,
and even most of the musical references and dises were
more aimed toward Drake than Cole. The only thing that
he said in response to J Cole is on First
Person Shooter, J Cole references to them as the Big Three,
and Kendrick responses not big.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Meat, which is hard, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
So I think it was the reason why people are
so disappointed to be frank with you, Rams is because
J Cole might be the only rapper capable of this
generation of sparring with Kendrick. So that's what people wanted,
and the response was mad, Like you know, if they
were tweeting, the response would have been great if Kendrick
tweeted his stuff and then JA Cole tweeted back. Those
(08:03):
tweets against each other may have been cool, but the songs,
the song wasn't really awesome, and J Cole is so talented,
people got excited, like, oh man, finally, we're about to
get this generation's whoever versus whoever. But we know there's
a very very dark side to hip hop beef, and
(08:23):
because we've seen the worst version of it play out,
I think that's where my brother Ramss comes from with Yo.
Cole's approach on this is a far better approach than
how we've seen some of these things go.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
So if I have to pick between what Jake Cole
just did and what say Pak didn't hit him up,
I'm gonna pick what Cole did a thousand times out
of a thousand. So that's where I think my brother's
coming from. On you know, let's veer towards the higher vibration,
let's lift each other up, less unite. But I think
what fans understood, and I think what Kendrick.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
And I don't know this.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
I don't know Kendrick, I don't know Cold, but I
think Kendrick's position was, let's just spark because we both dope.
I'm gonna say I'm the dope. It's not your turn
to say you the dopest, not I hate you, not
I don't like you. Because again, none of the lyrics
were disrespectful at the people, just very very clever, masterful
word play with regards to the music and things that
they said on track before.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
So you know what's funny is that we are flirting
with the idea of getting back into doing a bona
fide radio show that obviously it's going to have a
social justice component into it because that's what we do now.
But we're really thinking about it. We got the name,
we got the logo, we got the artwork and everything
(09:43):
like that, and there's some people talking to us about it,
and I could hear it now. I'm glad we waited
to have this conversation with Mike's were on right, But yeah,
I appreciate you providing the context for hip hop battles
(10:04):
and their place in the culture. It is. It is
more of a sport. I mean, two country artists don't
go back and forth saying they're the best to you
know what, what are picked two artists. They don't go
back and forth saying I'm the best, at least not
in a way to where fans are engaged trying to
go Yeah, yeah, exactly, that's wrong about it. But but
(10:26):
but it wasn't like there was groups of fans in
the same way. There certainly were groups of fans saying
this person's best approbat but it's not in the same way.
The vested interest was not in the same way by
the fans, and it wasn't like there's points earned or
deducted for attacks on the other one. And I kind
(10:48):
of Drake and Kindred both referenced Prince and MJ in
their battle. Oh yeah, that's the idea, right they did. Okay,
So anyway, I appreciate you bringing that up because I
think that that's important context to have one of the
things that I think has happened since you know, I
(11:11):
fell in love with hip hop and then grew up
and was raised by hip hop. I'm born in nineteen
eighty two and I'm from Compton, California, So i have
a strong predosition predisposition. Sorry to supporting Kendrick Lamar, right,
I just you know, you root for the home team.
What are you gonna do? Right, But make no mistake,
I'm a huge fan of Drake. I'm a huge fan
(11:32):
of j Cole right, And the truth is they probably
both of them, probably got more spins in my real life.
But if you ask me in front of an audience
with a microphone, Kendrick. Don't even question it, right listen,
So Rams don't do it for the gram, you do
it for Compton. Yeah, listen, talk to him, know about me,
Let him know about me. Q. So since I, you know,
(11:57):
was able to fall in love with hip hop, you know,
late eighties, early nineties, all through the nineties, all through
the two thousands and twenty tens up until today, Indeed,
hip hop paid all of my bills, everything that I own.
I raised two children off of hip hop. I was
able to share hip hop with audiences around the world.
(12:21):
You also were able to share hip hop with audiences
around the world. That is a magnificent thing to be
able to have this fantastic culture that we own that
is ours. We were born into it, feed us and
pay us to do something that we love. Right. So
indeed we love this culture. Right. But I feel personally
(12:43):
that I've seen hip hop battles and hip hop beefs
sort of the lines sort of get blurred. You know
when you think of you know, the NBA Young Boys,
and you think of the Chief Heaths, and you think
of the you know, the Six Nines, and you think
(13:06):
of the I don't even know I said his name
but you give what I'm trying to say, right, But
you know, you think of the Dirks and the you know,
you know King Vond. You know, I was such a
big fan of King Von and that was that was
rap beef that took his life in Houston. If I'm
not mistaken, and you know that list goes all the
way back. You mentioned Tupac and Bigie, right, if those
(13:27):
two people weren't battling on records, it wouldn't have become
hip hop beef. And then we would still have two
now elder statesmen in you know, the hip hop arena.
And so I feel like maybe there's an argument to
be made that hip hop could survive without the battle element.
(13:47):
You know, you don't necessarily need the battle element in
order to be a true hip hop artist, in the
same way you don't need to freestyle. Once upon a time,
I felt because I come from an underground and of
course my brother is in dilated People's for those that
are familiar, that is boom Ba Backpacker. You know, two
mcason and DJ all day long, and we passed the
(14:08):
mic around back and forth, and we created a cipher
and we just wrap put on a beat. I'll make
up the rhyme right now, okay, and that was part
and parcel to what hip hop was. You could ask
kr us Won that you know, it's a Q Tip
said it on one of his songs. Freestyling is a
true MC trait and for those that can do it,
(14:30):
people look at them is great. I believe that's kind
of what he communicated in the bar in his song.
And hip hop has done fine without freestyles, not make
it up. I mean the still they still have freestyles,
but a lot of times nowadays, they're written, they're written,
they prepare it, they go into you know, Sway, or
they go into wherever they go, you know, blue leg
(14:51):
heav the Leakers, Yeah, and then they recite something that
they'd written prior to that moment exclusively for that moment, right.
And so the term freestyle has kind of evolved. But
once upon a time you could put on a beat
and say, make a song about this person in front
of you go and it happens sometimes sometimes, but it's
(15:12):
very rare thing when we were younger. So so because
what I say that to say that, because there's so
many rappers out now that don't do that whatsoever. That's
not a thing that they do. Once upon a time
that was part and parcel to an MC because remember
MC's you got to make it up on the fly, right,
an MC being talented and worthy of, you know, being
a rapper. So, just like hip hop has continued without
(15:38):
that characteristic, that skill, I do believe that it could
survive without the battle element, because the battle element, as
we've seen so many times, has kind of devolved and
become destructive. And what it does is influences Because these
people are at the top of the culture, it influences
(15:59):
the rest of the culture below it. And what you
see is the machismo and the aggressive sort of nature
of the kind of back and forth battles filter its
way throughout the rest of the culture. And when you
see someone like j Cole, as you mentioned, who is
(16:20):
more than qualified to take on a Kendrick Lamar, more
than qualified to do it, I will say see that
entirely upfront, then apologizeing and say you know what, well
what man, I'm walking a path here. Who wins from this?
If you need this dog, take it. Here's my chint
right here. Take it right. That also trickles down and
(16:42):
it shows the rest of us that there are alternative
ways of dealing with conflicts or getting where you want
to be.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Go ahead, I'm glad that someone of j Cole's stature
did it. There's far more people will respect it than
think it's corny because JA co is just not corny.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
So if that's your position, and then you're the one
that's whack. Like so, and this is why we're talking
about it because I don't want to say his name,
but a very prominent DJ with prominent platform was very
upset did J Cole apologize?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I get why, though, and this is this is why
I want to point this out, because like I said,
there's two sides of this coin, and neither is really wrong.
Attacking J Cole personally would be whack, but being upset
that he responded that way isn't.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
And this is the reason why.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Just if we've seen the demise of some greats based
on that, we saw Meek Mill and Drake go.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
At each other's heads and then joined forces and give
us a.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Smash like so, we've seen that it can just be
on wax rat beef and then two kings can get
on stage, surprisingly because people didn't know this was going
to happen and blow an Arena's head off, because man,
we didn't see that coming. Man, we Ramison Q was
almost beefing. But then Civic Cipher went live at Madison.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Square Garden and we started by like people would be
very excited about that.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
But excuse me, it's important to point out because it's
Kendrick specifically the control verse that kind of shook hip
hop up. Kendrick says some things in that verse that
make it very clear not only do I respect, but
I love the people whose names I'm saying. Now that
I got that out the way, and then he goes off, right,
(18:22):
So it's for this specific one why people are so disappointed.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
It was because.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Finally because Drake they think is the top dog based
on Drake's successes, but when it comes to who's the best,
it's Colon Kendrick. That's how everyone feels unequivocally. So people
were excited for the Manny Pacqui al Floyd Mayweather fight.
They were excited for the lennyx Lewis Mike Tyson fight.
(18:51):
They were excited for that match between two Titans that's
gonna give us what we need. They didn't have any
expectations that they would bulge negative beyond that, because both
people have said out loud and this Kendrick during a
disburse not only says I'm usually homeboys with these names,
but I got love for y'all just right now in
(19:13):
this moment, I'm Kendrick and y'all can't see me. I
think that's dope. So I think the disappointment was Kendrick
let off and everybody was like finally cold by the beginning.
They didn't even expect Drake to respond, and I heard
the same prominent DJ that you're talking about say, I ain't.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Even checking for Drake. I'm waiting for Jermaine because I
know what your Maine got. Your Maine got it.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
And then he did it, and there was some disappointment
in that, but I think the disappointment in that is
shown in his apology. It was half hearted than I
don't want to do this anymo. Yeah, I don't want
to do this anyway. So I tried to come up
with something to say and put it out because that's
kind of what the culture was begging me for.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
But I wasn't in it.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
So I can respect both positions, like I understand the
disappoint ointment and those people who are like, man, we
thought we was about to get Michael and Lebron in
a real match, not just hypothetical. I thought we was
about to get the Kobe Lebron NBA Finals that never happened.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
We thought we was about to get it, and man,
we're not gonna get it, darn it. So it's them
being selfish.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
I don't even think it's you're not dissing cold because
I haven't heard anybody say anything negative about j Cole,
just negative because of what he did. So, like I said,
if your position is that he's corny for doing this,
then you're whack because what he says is authentic and
it's real, and that's his spirit and he deserves our
reverence and our respect for the position that he took.
(20:36):
But I'm not going to pretend that I don't understand
why so many people are sad. Right, they're not expressing it,
that's sad, but they're sad. They had an expectation that
they're about to get something great and.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Dang man, we ain't gonna get it. Yeah. Well, I
think it's important for people to know that I am
Q knows this because Q knows me better than everybody
put together in the world. I'm not really the biggest
fan of violence. I'm not the biggest fan of like boxing,
(21:06):
and I don't I'm not a fan of MMA fights
and all that stuff. It just doesn't do anything for me.
It feels it makes me sad. Well, I'm meant more competition,
I'm talking about it. Yeah, I'm talking about everything to
worry or but you know this about me, it just
like it just kind of bums me out, like why
are they fighting? You know? It just doesn't It makes
my spirit unhappy. Now I know I sound soft. I promise,
(21:30):
do not run a ball. I am not the one,
nor am I the two not run a ball. But
when I'm vibrating at my normal frequency, I just don't
enjoy conflict. I enjoy laughing, peace, tranquility, the laughter of
my son's you know, you know these sorts of things.
(21:51):
This is the life that I want to live. I
don't enjoy pain, suffering, brutality, violence, It just doesn't do
it for me. So you need to know this about me,
and hopefully that will help frame my position a little
bit better. And if you're not one of those people
like me, then maybe you do like the the back
(22:13):
and forth. It comes from the bouts. I once upon
a time like them too, but it also came with
a degree of like, this is I'm a little bit sad.
I was really a big fan of Cannabis. When a
Llo cool J dissed him, this is just kind of
the one that is in my brain. Right. I was
such a big fan of this guy. He was such
a dope rapper, right, and then Ello cool J came
(22:36):
out with a song called The Ripper Strikes Back, and
the beat was so big, and Llo cool J's vocals
were so big, and he was like, ask Cannabis. He
ain't understanding this. There's ninety nine percent of his fans
don't exist, you know, It's like just dropping these bars.
And I was like, oh, it's crazy, right, But there
was a part of me that kind of mourned, that
(22:58):
felt kind of sad for cannabis, and that part never
goes away in any battle jay Z and Nas. You know,
we mentioned some of the other names, some of the
more recent battles back and forth, and I think that
to your point, Q, this one was shaping up to
be one of those epic, once in a decade type battles.
(23:19):
But I think that hip hop can mature. It has
matured beyond a lot of different things, and it can
mature beyond maybe not battling so much good beef and
if Cole sees it going in a certain way, because
there's something to be said about, you know, beef between
(23:42):
this rapper and that rapper, or battling between this rapper
and that rapper translates to beef on the ground level
of people who support this rapper and support that rapper.
That's certainly true and has been true on the West
Coast for some time, because there's a lot of gangs
over there, right, And so that the implicationations of these
back and forth we talked about, you know, one rapper
(24:05):
that filters into sixteen families, and those families look to
those individuals. They're the friends and associates of those families,
look to the individuals that are connected to the rapper,
you know what I mean. And so you have these
like you're talking hundreds of people with a vested interest
in the success of this one rapper, right, they have
a fiscal interest in that. And beef and battling is
(24:32):
no matter what destructive, it can ultimately become constructive. You
mentioned Jay Cole and Meek Mill on the stage together,
Drake and you're right, Drake and Meek Mill sorry, on
the stage together with It was after back to back.
What was the name of the song, bad Going Bad? Yeah,
that was their song.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
We also got jay Z and nas Ye also on
the same stage, but on the same studio and the moment,
I think kind of on the same label.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Yeah, yeah, So these things can happen. What the way
I figure is that you don't necessarily need to travel
through the bad parts to get to the good parts,
because when it's bad, it can be really bad and
really permanent. And when it's good, it's definitely good. But
(25:19):
it doesn't bring people back to life. It doesn't always
revive careers. And I think that you know, for what
j Cole did, him saying as much as he can
see from where he sits. And I think, you know,
Kudostan for being true to himself, like this just doesn't
(25:41):
feel right to me. You and I know this too.
You and I know this. You and I famously had
to go on the news time and again and talk
about a rapper and at no point did we ever
disrespect that man. We said wrong is wrong and right
(26:01):
is right, and this is right, and this is what
we're going to do, and we're going to stand on
this principle. You can google the story if you don't
know it. But and I and I and I and
I saw you do this on CNN on CNN Live.
I saw you do it with these eyes. I sat
next to you, and I watched you do it. And
you spoke firmly, You spoke as a man, as a protector,
(26:25):
and at no point did you disrespect the individual that
we were talking about. You gave him everything that he needed,
and you gave him a way back home. At some
point he's going to find his way, but for now
we cannot. We cannot let him harm us anymore. Right,
And I think that that's kind of that, that's something
that is noteworthy, that's something that is that is special.
(26:48):
And I think that not devolving into the beef, the
back and forth us being black man attacking a black
man in front of the whole country. You know, there's
something that that they used to talk about, let's call
it ninety three. I remember it on in Living Color,
and uh in Living Color was a skitch show back
in the day. For folks that don't remember or not open.
(27:11):
It was before Chappelle's Show and before that's the origin
of the sketch comedy. Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
It was.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, it was Thik Saturday Night Live. That's probably a
better way to explain it. But there was a skit
and it was about black unity and it was kind
of suggesting that there was no such thing as black unity.
And it was a funny skit, but it stayed with me.
I'm glad I saw it. And whenever I would see
beef between Lloklue Jay and Cannabis, or between jay Z
(27:37):
and Nas or you know, Meek Mill and Drake Oupac
and Biggie and on and on, right, I would always wonder,
is this an opportunity for black unity that has been squandered? Right?
And black unity is something that as we've been taught
(27:59):
growing up and still sphere into the powers that be,
the puppet masters that control these facets of our life
that we are trying to change, that we push back against.
And so I know that people who play basketball are
competitive with each other, and they don't it's they don't
have to to beef, right, and they can compete where
(28:23):
they can where they compete, right, the scoreboard. Right, if
the rappers like J Cole says, Look, I'm in a game.
Everybody wants to be number one. We'll compete on the
scoreboard who has the most sales, right, and that's that.
But I'm not going to disrespect this black man, who
is a king, who is someone that everyone looks up to,
(28:43):
you know, on and on. If that's what he says,
I say, it has a soft place to land over here.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Yeah, I just think it's it's important to say that
you can do both, you can compete without disrespecting because
again Kendrick doesn't say anything disrespectful about either person in
the song. It's more in window and subliminal and on
tandra with regard to song titles and things set in music.
Never this guy is this and this guy is that,
or anything disparaging personally.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
About the other guy. I think that's important to point
out because I don't.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Think we should just make it one or the other
when that's not truly what it is.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Sure already shown that you can do one without doing
the other. Well, you say this in you window, smell
like in you out there? All right, that's it for us,
that was coming. All right, We're showing our age right now,
(29:42):
but this is the time when we turn it over
to you. We really wanted to have this conversation for
your benefit, but we also want to hear from you,
So do us a favorite. Reach out to us using
the red microphone talkback picture on the iHeartRadio app, or
you can hit me on social media. I am at
Ramsy's Jah, I am q Ward and let's keep the
com inversation going. Does Bee still have a place in
(30:02):
hip hop? What do you think? And until we talk Peece.
This has been a production of the Black Information Network.
Today's show is produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts
you'd like to share? Use the red microphone talkback feature
on the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to
hit subscribing down all of our episodes. I'm your host
ramses job on all social media. Join us tomorrow as
(30:24):
we share our news with our voice from our perspective
right here on the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
This is the Black Information Network Daily podcast, and I
am your host Ramsey's job, and sometimes the amount of
stories that make their way to us means that we
simply can't cover everything that comes our way. But from
time to time, the story just stays with me and
fill compelled to share it with you and give you
my thoughts. And now one more thing. At the end
(00:23):
of the.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Day, when I listen to her and when it comes
out and I see the talk that I'm sitting right
in my spirit and trying to find a little angle
and down play his greatness, I want to say, right
now tonight, how many people think Kendrick Lamar is one
of the creators that that looks something spring Billy?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Y'all love Kendrick Lamar corrects, Do I So?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I just want to be to be like that was
the latest movie. And then it made me feel like
ten years ago when I was moving here correctly and
I prayed that God will line me back up on
my purpose and on my path.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
You know what I mean, I'm braided up. Kendrick really
didn't feel no way. And if he did, take your
best shout and take that to the chick. Do what
you do this love?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
You know, I pray that y'all ill like forgive the
this step and then I can get back to my
true path. Was like a lot of y'all past two
days felt and let me know how good I've been
sleeping for the past ten years. So all of that
to say, man, that's a reminder to me of getting
back on the right.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Path and getting in tune with God I want to get.
So that is the voice of J Cole. And if
you are a fan of hip hop music, you might
be familiar with the back and forth that has taken place,
I guess, starting with a song called First Person Shooter
(01:31):
with J Cole collaborating with Drake shouting out Kendrick Lamar
who wasn't on the song, and Kendrick had a response
track on a recent Future record and kendrickt Drake and
J Cole And this is kind of right up our
(01:56):
alley today. I'm joined by Qboard, the one person who
was more qualified to have this conversation with me than
anyone else because this is what we do. And we're
going to talk about beef in hip hop and J
Cole's apology to Kendrick Lamar, which you heard now for
(02:17):
those that don't know Again, Kendrick made the song with
Future dissing Drake and j Cole, and then Ja Cole
made a response to that song and he was basically
calling into question Kendrick's catalog and you know, just just bickering.
There wasn't there was no real substance to this beef.
(02:37):
It was just some bickering. I suspect, I'll say this up.
I suspect it might be staged because there's really no
nothing there but beef. In hip hop, we often have
to to deal with that. And you know, once upon
(02:58):
a time when Llo Cool Jay and Cannabis were going
back and forth, I thought it was so cool that,
you know, these people could be so creative and making
fun of each other. And then I realized what the
implications were. And you know, I think someone someone said
it recently, but you know, for every one rapper that
(03:20):
is successful, there are sixteen families, black families that depend
on that rapper's success. And I think even before we
get to that point, before we talk about economics, I
more than ever in this part of my life, am
a fan of black unity. If we have issues with
(03:42):
other black people, we like to handle them gracefully if
the cameras are on, and if the cameras are not
and we're behind the scenes, then we handle them with words,
not with violence, not with any of the more low
vibrational responses. And the reason we wanted to make the
(04:03):
show today is because I felt like J Cole's apology,
we're making a dis track that was appropriate given you know,
the sequence of events. J Cole's apology saying, you know what,
I'm I'm past that part of my life. I love him,
y'all love him. Ain't no reason for me to make
fun of him. If he had to diss me because
(04:24):
he needed to get that off, cool, if he needs
to dis me again because I made this response, I
got my chin out. But the truth is that's not
who I am right now. I apologize Kendrick him saying
that was so big and so far beyond a low
vibrational point, so far just a basic blood sport point
(04:44):
in his career that it deserves to be saluted. And
the fact is, there are a lot of people out
there who are saying, ah, you know, he punked out.
I hope Drake doesn't apologize. This is what hip hop
is all about, you know, blah blah blah. It's a
battle to blood sport. Everybody wants to be number one,
go for it. And I think that Jay Cole is
showing us that there's a different way to be successful,
(05:06):
to walk in your own truth, and to do so
without destroying everything in your path, with indeed building and
showing people how to build. And Q to that responded, well,
this conversation needs a little bit of nuance, So we thought,
why not turn on the cameras and have an old
school conversation like we used to do on Radio Solstice,
on Rhyman Reason, on any of our old shows, our
(05:28):
own radio shows that we used to do together. So
so that's obviously me rolling us into the conversation. Go ahead, QE.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Some I just think there's I don't think there's a
black and white right or wrong and how to respond
and instances like this, because to ignore battle raps place
in hip hop would be disingenuous.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
From two hip hop DJs, absolutely a kind of whack right.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
The entire history of this sport of hip hop has
been the battle component. It kind of started there where
the MC's would highlight the DJs, and the battle was
more about how much more dope my DJ is than yours,
and then it transitioned into the MC's having those battles themselves.
I think we got to see so many different variations
(06:13):
of this, and where j Cole should be celebrated is
making sure this doesn't veer into something where I'm giving
people the impression that I don't love and respect that
king over there. I think that's what he's trying to avoid,
and I think what some of the pushback against that
is is those that I think understand that Kendrick respects
(06:34):
and loves j Cole too. Most of the disc was
about Drake. If you break down the lyrics and like that,
the metro booming in Future track that Kendrick kind of
jumped off the porch on. But even then, they're not
personal attacks in the in the in the disk track,
you know, there's subliminals in undos and ntondrous based on
titles of songs and albums and kind of just saying, yo,
(06:57):
I'm the best, come at me. And then this is
the first time Kendrick has done this. The last time
he did this might have been ten years ago, but
he called out everybody like every active rapper got their
name everybody on the same song with yeah, and no
one responded ironically, So I think it was kind of
(07:18):
just Kendrick doing that Kendrick thing again, reasserting himself as
the greatest.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
He didn't.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
There were no personal dishes at Drake or J Cole,
and even most of the musical references and dises were
more aimed toward Drake than Cole. The only thing that
he said in response to J Cole is on First
Person Shooter, J Cole references to them as the Big Three,
and Kendrick responses not big.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Meat, which is hard, you know.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
So I think it was the reason why people are
so disappointed to be frank with you, Rams is because
J Cole might be the only rapper capable of this
generation of sparring with Kendrick. So that's what people wanted,
and the response was mad, Like you know, if they
were tweeting, the response would have been great if Kendrick
tweeted his stuff and then JA Cole tweeted back. Those
(08:03):
tweets against each other may have been cool, but the songs,
the song wasn't really awesome, and J Cole is so talented,
people got excited, like, oh man, finally, we're about to
get this generation's whoever versus whoever. But we know there's
a very very dark side to hip hop beef, and
(08:23):
because we've seen the worst version of it play out,
I think that's where my brother Ramss comes from with Yo.
Cole's approach on this is a far better approach than
how we've seen some of these things go.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Right.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
So if I have to pick between what Jake Cole
just did and what say Pak didn't hit him up,
I'm gonna pick what Cole did a thousand times out
of a thousand. So that's where I think my brother's
coming from. On you know, let's veer towards the higher vibration,
let's lift each other up, less unite. But I think
what fans understood, and I think what Kendrick.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
And I don't know this.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
I don't know Kendrick, I don't know Cold, but I
think Kendrick's position was, let's just spark because we both dope.
I'm gonna say I'm the dope. It's not your turn
to say you the dopest, not I hate you, not
I don't like you. Because again, none of the lyrics
were disrespectful at the people, just very very clever, masterful
word play with regards to the music and things that
they said on track before.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
So you know what's funny is that we are flirting
with the idea of getting back into doing a bona
fide radio show that obviously it's going to have a
social justice component into it because that's what we do now.
But we're really thinking about it. We got the name,
we got the logo, we got the artwork and everything
(09:43):
like that, and there's some people talking to us about it,
and I could hear it now. I'm glad we waited
to have this conversation with Mike's were on right, But yeah,
I appreciate you providing the context for hip hop battles
(10:04):
and their place in the culture. It is. It is
more of a sport. I mean, two country artists don't
go back and forth saying they're the best to you
know what, what are picked two artists. They don't go
back and forth saying I'm the best, at least not
in a way to where fans are engaged trying to
go Yeah, yeah, exactly, that's wrong about it. But but
(10:26):
but it wasn't like there was groups of fans in
the same way. There certainly were groups of fans saying
this person's best approbat but it's not in the same way.
The vested interest was not in the same way by
the fans, and it wasn't like there's points earned or
deducted for attacks on the other one. And I kind
(10:48):
of Drake and Kindred both referenced Prince and MJ in
their battle. Oh yeah, that's the idea, right they did. Okay,
So anyway, I appreciate you bringing that up because I
think that that's important context to have one of the
things that I think has happened since you know, I
(11:11):
fell in love with hip hop and then grew up
and was raised by hip hop. I'm born in nineteen
eighty two and I'm from Compton, California, So i have
a strong predosition predisposition. Sorry to supporting Kendrick Lamar, right,
I just you know, you root for the home team.
What are you gonna do? Right, But make no mistake,
I'm a huge fan of Drake. I'm a huge fan
(11:32):
of j Cole right, And the truth is they probably
both of them, probably got more spins in my real life.
But if you ask me in front of an audience
with a microphone, Kendrick. Don't even question it, right listen,
So Rams don't do it for the gram, you do
it for Compton. Yeah, listen, talk to him, know about me,
Let him know about me. Q. So since I, you know,
(11:57):
was able to fall in love with hip hop, you know,
late eighties, early nineties, all through the nineties, all through
the two thousands and twenty tens up until today, Indeed,
hip hop paid all of my bills, everything that I own.
I raised two children off of hip hop. I was
able to share hip hop with audiences around the world.
(12:21):
You also were able to share hip hop with audiences
around the world. That is a magnificent thing to be
able to have this fantastic culture that we own that
is ours. We were born into it, feed us and
pay us to do something that we love. Right. So
indeed we love this culture. Right. But I feel personally
(12:43):
that I've seen hip hop battles and hip hop beefs
sort of the lines sort of get blurred. You know
when you think of you know, the NBA Young Boys,
and you think of the Chief Heaths, and you think
of the you know, the Six Nines, and you think
(13:06):
of the I don't even know I said his name
but you give what I'm trying to say, right, But
you know, you think of the Dirks and the you know,
you know King Vond. You know, I was such a
big fan of King Von and that was that was
rap beef that took his life in Houston. If I'm
not mistaken, and you know that list goes all the
way back. You mentioned Tupac and Bigie, right, if those
(13:27):
two people weren't battling on records, it wouldn't have become
hip hop beef. And then we would still have two
now elder statesmen in you know, the hip hop arena.
And so I feel like maybe there's an argument to
be made that hip hop could survive without the battle element.
(13:47):
You know, you don't necessarily need the battle element in
order to be a true hip hop artist, in the
same way you don't need to freestyle. Once upon a time,
I felt because I come from an underground and of
course my brother is in dilated People's for those that
are familiar, that is boom Ba Backpacker. You know, two
mcason and DJ all day long, and we passed the
(14:08):
mic around back and forth, and we created a cipher
and we just wrap put on a beat. I'll make
up the rhyme right now, okay, and that was part
and parcel to what hip hop was. You could ask
kr us Won that you know, it's a Q Tip
said it on one of his songs. Freestyling is a
true MC trait and for those that can do it,
(14:30):
people look at them is great. I believe that's kind
of what he communicated in the bar in his song.
And hip hop has done fine without freestyles, not make
it up. I mean the still they still have freestyles,
but a lot of times nowadays, they're written, they're written,
they prepare it, they go into you know, Sway, or
they go into wherever they go, you know, blue leg
(14:51):
heav the Leakers, Yeah, and then they recite something that
they'd written prior to that moment exclusively for that moment, right.
And so the term freestyle has kind of evolved. But
once upon a time you could put on a beat
and say, make a song about this person in front
of you go and it happens sometimes sometimes, but it's
(15:12):
very rare thing when we were younger. So so because
what I say that to say that, because there's so
many rappers out now that don't do that whatsoever. That's
not a thing that they do. Once upon a time
that was part and parcel to an MC because remember
MC's you got to make it up on the fly, right,
an MC being talented and worthy of, you know, being
a rapper. So, just like hip hop has continued without
(15:38):
that characteristic, that skill, I do believe that it could
survive without the battle element, because the battle element, as
we've seen so many times, has kind of devolved and
become destructive. And what it does is influences Because these
people are at the top of the culture, it influences
(15:59):
the rest of the culture below it. And what you
see is the machismo and the aggressive sort of nature
of the kind of back and forth battles filter its
way throughout the rest of the culture. And when you
see someone like j Cole, as you mentioned, who is
(16:20):
more than qualified to take on a Kendrick Lamar, more
than qualified to do it, I will say see that
entirely upfront, then apologizeing and say you know what, well
what man, I'm walking a path here. Who wins from this?
If you need this dog, take it. Here's my chint
right here. Take it right. That also trickles down and
(16:42):
it shows the rest of us that there are alternative
ways of dealing with conflicts or getting where you want
to be.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Go ahead, I'm glad that someone of j Cole's stature
did it. There's far more people will respect it than
think it's corny because JA co is just not corny.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
So if that's your position, and then you're the one
that's whack. Like so, and this is why we're talking
about it because I don't want to say his name,
but a very prominent DJ with prominent platform was very
upset did J Cole apologize?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I get why, though, and this is this is why
I want to point this out, because like I said,
there's two sides of this coin, and neither is really wrong.
Attacking J Cole personally would be whack, but being upset
that he responded that way isn't.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
And this is the reason why.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Just if we've seen the demise of some greats based
on that, we saw Meek Mill and Drake go.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
At each other's heads and then joined forces and give
us a.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Smash like so, we've seen that it can just be
on wax rat beef and then two kings can get
on stage, surprisingly because people didn't know this was going
to happen and blow an Arena's head off, because man,
we didn't see that coming. Man, we Ramison Q was
almost beefing. But then Civic Cipher went live at Madison.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Square Garden and we started by like people would be
very excited about that.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
But excuse me, it's important to point out because it's
Kendrick specifically the control verse that kind of shook hip
hop up. Kendrick says some things in that verse that
make it very clear not only do I respect, but
I love the people whose names I'm saying. Now that
I got that out the way, and then he goes off, right,
(18:22):
So it's for this specific one why people are so disappointed.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
It was because.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Finally because Drake they think is the top dog based
on Drake's successes, but when it comes to who's the best,
it's Colon Kendrick. That's how everyone feels unequivocally. So people
were excited for the Manny Pacqui al Floyd Mayweather fight.
They were excited for the lennyx Lewis Mike Tyson fight.
(18:51):
They were excited for that match between two Titans that's
gonna give us what we need. They didn't have any
expectations that they would bulge negative beyond that, because both
people have said out loud and this Kendrick during a
disburse not only says I'm usually homeboys with these names,
but I got love for y'all just right now in
(19:13):
this moment, I'm Kendrick and y'all can't see me. I
think that's dope. So I think the disappointment was Kendrick
let off and everybody was like finally cold by the beginning.
They didn't even expect Drake to respond, and I heard
the same prominent DJ that you're talking about say, I ain't.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Even checking for Drake. I'm waiting for Jermaine because I
know what your Maine got. Your Maine got it.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
And then he did it, and there was some disappointment
in that, but I think the disappointment in that is
shown in his apology. It was half hearted than I
don't want to do this anymo. Yeah, I don't want
to do this anyway. So I tried to come up
with something to say and put it out because that's
kind of what the culture was begging me for.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
But I wasn't in it.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
So I can respect both positions, like I understand the
disappoint ointment and those people who are like, man, we
thought we was about to get Michael and Lebron in
a real match, not just hypothetical. I thought we was
about to get the Kobe Lebron NBA Finals that never happened.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
We thought we was about to get it, and man,
we're not gonna get it, darn it. So it's them
being selfish.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
I don't even think it's you're not dissing cold because
I haven't heard anybody say anything negative about j Cole,
just negative because of what he did. So, like I said,
if your position is that he's corny for doing this,
then you're whack because what he says is authentic and
it's real, and that's his spirit and he deserves our
reverence and our respect for the position that he took.
(20:36):
But I'm not going to pretend that I don't understand
why so many people are sad. Right, they're not expressing it,
that's sad, but they're sad. They had an expectation that
they're about to get something great and.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Dang man, we ain't gonna get it. Yeah. Well, I
think it's important for people to know that I am
Q knows this because Q knows me better than everybody
put together in the world. I'm not really the biggest
fan of violence. I'm not the biggest fan of like boxing,
(21:06):
and I don't I'm not a fan of MMA fights
and all that stuff. It just doesn't do anything for me.
It feels it makes me sad. Well, I'm meant more competition,
I'm talking about it. Yeah, I'm talking about everything to
worry or but you know this about me, it just
like it just kind of bums me out, like why
are they fighting? You know? It just doesn't It makes
my spirit unhappy. Now I know I sound soft. I promise,
(21:30):
do not run a ball. I am not the one,
nor am I the two not run a ball. But
when I'm vibrating at my normal frequency, I just don't
enjoy conflict. I enjoy laughing, peace, tranquility, the laughter of
my son's you know, you know these sorts of things.
(21:51):
This is the life that I want to live. I
don't enjoy pain, suffering, brutality, violence, It just doesn't do
it for me. So you need to know this about me,
and hopefully that will help frame my position a little
bit better. And if you're not one of those people
like me, then maybe you do like the the back
(22:13):
and forth. It comes from the bouts. I once upon
a time like them too, but it also came with
a degree of like, this is I'm a little bit sad.
I was really a big fan of Cannabis. When a
Llo cool J dissed him, this is just kind of
the one that is in my brain. Right. I was
such a big fan of this guy. He was such
a dope rapper, right, and then Ello cool J came
(22:36):
out with a song called The Ripper Strikes Back, and
the beat was so big, and Llo cool J's vocals
were so big, and he was like, ask Cannabis. He
ain't understanding this. There's ninety nine percent of his fans
don't exist, you know, It's like just dropping these bars.
And I was like, oh, it's crazy, right, But there
was a part of me that kind of mourned, that
(22:58):
felt kind of sad for cannabis, and that part never
goes away in any battle jay Z and Nas. You know,
we mentioned some of the other names, some of the
more recent battles back and forth, and I think that
to your point, Q, this one was shaping up to
be one of those epic, once in a decade type battles.
(23:19):
But I think that hip hop can mature. It has
matured beyond a lot of different things, and it can
mature beyond maybe not battling so much good beef and
if Cole sees it going in a certain way, because
there's something to be said about, you know, beef between
(23:42):
this rapper and that rapper, or battling between this rapper
and that rapper translates to beef on the ground level
of people who support this rapper and support that rapper.
That's certainly true and has been true on the West
Coast for some time, because there's a lot of gangs
over there, right, And so that the implicationations of these
back and forth we talked about, you know, one rapper
(24:05):
that filters into sixteen families, and those families look to
those individuals. They're the friends and associates of those families,
look to the individuals that are connected to the rapper,
you know what I mean. And so you have these
like you're talking hundreds of people with a vested interest
in the success of this one rapper, right, they have
a fiscal interest in that. And beef and battling is
(24:32):
no matter what destructive, it can ultimately become constructive. You
mentioned Jay Cole and Meek Mill on the stage together,
Drake and you're right, Drake and Meek Mill sorry, on
the stage together with It was after back to back.
What was the name of the song, bad Going Bad? Yeah,
that was their song.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
We also got jay Z and nas Ye also on
the same stage, but on the same studio and the moment,
I think kind of on the same label.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Yeah, yeah, So these things can happen. What the way
I figure is that you don't necessarily need to travel
through the bad parts to get to the good parts,
because when it's bad, it can be really bad and
really permanent. And when it's good, it's definitely good. But
(25:19):
it doesn't bring people back to life. It doesn't always
revive careers. And I think that you know, for what
j Cole did, him saying as much as he can
see from where he sits. And I think, you know,
Kudostan for being true to himself, like this just doesn't
(25:41):
feel right to me. You and I know this too.
You and I know this. You and I famously had
to go on the news time and again and talk
about a rapper and at no point did we ever
disrespect that man. We said wrong is wrong and right
(26:01):
is right, and this is right, and this is what
we're going to do, and we're going to stand on
this principle. You can google the story if you don't
know it. But and I and I and I and
I saw you do this on CNN on CNN Live.
I saw you do it with these eyes. I sat
next to you, and I watched you do it. And
you spoke firmly, You spoke as a man, as a protector,
(26:25):
and at no point did you disrespect the individual that
we were talking about. You gave him everything that he needed,
and you gave him a way back home. At some
point he's going to find his way, but for now
we cannot. We cannot let him harm us anymore. Right,
And I think that that's kind of that, that's something
that is noteworthy, that's something that is that is special.
(26:48):
And I think that not devolving into the beef, the
back and forth us being black man attacking a black
man in front of the whole country. You know, there's
something that that they used to talk about, let's call
it ninety three. I remember it on in Living Color,
and uh in Living Color was a skitch show back
in the day. For folks that don't remember or not open.
(27:11):
It was before Chappelle's Show and before that's the origin
of the sketch comedy. Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
It was.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, it was Thik Saturday Night Live. That's probably a
better way to explain it. But there was a skit
and it was about black unity and it was kind
of suggesting that there was no such thing as black unity.
And it was a funny skit, but it stayed with me.
I'm glad I saw it. And whenever I would see
beef between Lloklue Jay and Cannabis, or between jay Z
(27:37):
and Nas or you know, Meek Mill and Drake Oupac
and Biggie and on and on, right, I would always wonder,
is this an opportunity for black unity that has been squandered? Right?
And black unity is something that as we've been taught
(27:59):
growing up and still sphere into the powers that be,
the puppet masters that control these facets of our life
that we are trying to change, that we push back against.
And so I know that people who play basketball are
competitive with each other, and they don't it's they don't
have to to beef, right, and they can compete where
(28:23):
they can where they compete, right, the scoreboard. Right, if
the rappers like J Cole says, Look, I'm in a game.
Everybody wants to be number one. We'll compete on the
scoreboard who has the most sales, right, and that's that.
But I'm not going to disrespect this black man, who
is a king, who is someone that everyone looks up to,
(28:43):
you know, on and on. If that's what he says,
I say, it has a soft place to land over here.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
Yeah, I just think it's it's important to say that
you can do both, you can compete without disrespecting because
again Kendrick doesn't say anything disrespectful about either person in
the song. It's more in window and subliminal and on
tandra with regard to song titles and things set in music.
Never this guy is this and this guy is that,
or anything disparaging personally.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
About the other guy. I think that's important to point
out because I don't.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Think we should just make it one or the other
when that's not truly what it is.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Sure already shown that you can do one without doing
the other. Well, you say this in you window, smell
like in you out there? All right, that's it for us,
that was coming. All right, We're showing our age right now,
(29:42):
but this is the time when we turn it over
to you. We really wanted to have this conversation for
your benefit, but we also want to hear from you,
So do us a favorite. Reach out to us using
the red microphone talkback picture on the iHeartRadio app, or
you can hit me on social media. I am at
Ramsy's Jah, I am q Ward and let's keep the
com inversation going. Does Bee still have a place in
(30:02):
hip hop? What do you think? And until we talk Peece.
This has been a production of the Black Information Network.
Today's show is produced by Chris Thompson. Have some thoughts
you'd like to share? Use the red microphone talkback feature
on the iHeartRadio app. While you're there, be sure to
hit subscribing down all of our episodes. I'm your host
ramses job on all social media. Join us tomorrow as
(30:24):
we share our news with our voice from our perspective
right here on the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
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