April 9, 2024 • 56 mins
Dr. Dani Gordon in London is a double board certified medical doctor and one of the world's leading experts in clinical cannabinoid medicine treating thousands of complex referral patients in Canada. Find out how she got started using CBD oils and lotions and she breaks down her new book THE CBD BIBLE.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Now it's time for Cannabis Talk one on one with Blue,
Joe Grande and Mark and Greg Washerman, the pop brothers
in law, with special guest doctor Danny Gordon, author of
the CBD Bible.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hello, welcome to Cannabis Talk one o one. My name
is Blue.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Alongside of me or the world famous pop brothers that law,
mister Mark and Craig Washerman.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
Hello, Well you can't say hi, Craig's on.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
The show Crag.
Speaker 5 (00:26):
You normally go right to Joe.
Speaker 6 (00:27):
Well, I was.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Looking at you els hoping you're going He was looking
at you, and Craig's just looking at the guests, going hi.
Speaker 7 (00:33):
Doctor.
Speaker 5 (00:34):
Today I saw a little brother camera went off, so
it threw me.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Oh okay, we all cut him off already we might.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Well, we also have this amazing specimen next to me,
mister Joe Grande.
Speaker 7 (00:46):
Thank you very much. Blew it's a pleasure to be
sitting next to you.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yes, thank you, sir. I appreciate you as well.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
And Joe, why don't you let everybody in the world
know exactly what's going on Cannabis Talks.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Funny way you say the world, because this feels like
world interview. I want to thank everyone for listening to
our podcast, Cannabis Talk one on one.
Speaker 7 (01:04):
All over the world. Thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
If you ever want to call into the show eight
hundred and four to twenty nineteen eighty, Craig, we have
a lot of Spanish listeners, so please give it an espanol.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
Ocho zeno zeno quatro does zero nuevo o cho zeno.
Speaker 7 (01:18):
In blue in Puerto Rican English.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
It's one eight hundred and four twenty nineteen eighty.
Speaker 7 (01:23):
Guys and Mark, do you have it down yet?
Speaker 6 (01:27):
Trony episyny epis, tony epis.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Wow, Wow, you really graduated from Hebrew class.
Speaker 7 (01:37):
That's Hebrew?
Speaker 8 (01:38):
Say? Is that Hebrew rash?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
And that sexy voice that you hear right there she
needs to say it from her.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Oh yeah, can you say it with the real English accent,
Doctor Danny Gordon.
Speaker 8 (01:48):
It's wow on the Canadian transplant so unfortunately I'm a
little bit limited.
Speaker 7 (01:53):
Well it does sound like it.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
And that voice right there is doctor Danny Gordon. She
is a double board certified medical doctor and one of
the world's leading expert in clinical cannabinoid medicine. After treating
thousands of complex referral patients in Canada, as she says
she's from Canada. She consults widely in the UK and internationally,
sits on an advisory boards and helps set up cannabis
(02:17):
medicine clinics and trained physicians. She's also involved in cannabis
clinic research, nonprofit and advocacy advocacy work as as well
as drug policy reforms. Her new book, which Mark and
I read quite a bit of, is called the CBD Bible.
Welcome Doctor Danny Gordon from across the Pond in London
(02:38):
to Cannabis Talk one oh one. Welcome all right, No,
it is so awesome to have you. First off, how
did this even happen? How did we find you? Because
after reading your book and see I think it was you,
right Mark?
Speaker 7 (02:52):
Did you find her? Does she find you?
Speaker 9 (02:55):
Yeah? It was on via LinkedIn.
Speaker 6 (02:59):
We got a we got a message on our LinkedIn
page about this awesome doctor who's an expert in cannabis
and cannabinoids and the whole nine yards. And I immediately
reached back out and said we got to get get
this doctor on the show. And uh, they were kind
enough to send us that screener book that I I
don't I dove right into it.
Speaker 9 (03:20):
I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 8 (03:21):
I went right to the sex chapter, of course, as
does everybody.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Well, clearly you did, doctor, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (03:28):
I implemented uh a higher dose of edibles in the
last two weeks and it has been amazing for.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
Me and my wife.
Speaker 8 (03:43):
Oh cool, yes.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Yes, So wait, so let's let's specify that, because now
all of us got to read it like you did,
and and and and understood it the same. So let's
dive into that a little bit warm, Mark, I mean,
is this something that she had wrote in her book
that she suggested that you've done and it worked?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I mean, can you explain that a little bit?
Speaker 6 (04:01):
Yeah, So, so in the book, it it suggests that
the use of CBD, THHC and everybody's gonna be different.
You're gonna have to figure out for yourself. That was
one of the the main themes throughout the book. When
you're you're using cannabis, because of the nature of the
studies and the anecdotal evidence that we all know about,
(04:26):
you've got to kind of play with it and try it.
As everyone on our panel knows, I consume a lot.
Speaker 9 (04:34):
And I have a high tolerance high.
Speaker 6 (04:39):
But I started consuming more after I read your book
to try to help with my sleep, but I found
the offshoot was my sexual prowess and stamina just went
through the roof wow, and it was it was very amazing,
and I wasn't all that And I'm hoping that you
(05:03):
can kind of shed some more light on it for us.
Speaker 8 (05:06):
Well, I mean, I'm glad to hear you've had excellent
results because of course, also in that chapter we talked
about not having it what I call a sex fail,
which is some people who have a very load tolerance
to high THHC cannabis try cannabis for the first time
right in the moments, you know, not really trying it beforehand,
and end up feeling the opposite of sexy or paranoid
(05:29):
or having kind of, you know, the opposite response that
you would watch. So it's exactly true that everyone's dose
is different. Some people prefer high a CBD because it
relaxes them. Some people really like the effects of THHC,
and our brains respond to THC differently for each person,
and some people are very different. So some people's way
(05:50):
that their brain kind of interacts with THC, they can
handle a lot of THHC and feel completely unimpaired versus other.
Speaker 9 (05:57):
People like me.
Speaker 8 (05:59):
If I have a little bit of THC, it really
affects me. So I really stick with the CBD side
of things most of the time for me and my
husband somewhere in between. So everyone's really different, very nice.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
So I know Mark's like to skip right to the
sex part. Yeah, why don't you tell it's a little
bit of How did you get into studying cannabinoids and
cannabis and CBDCs.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
It's so well certified, you have like every certification imaginable.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
It's amazing. So how how did you get into that?
Speaker 9 (06:30):
Well?
Speaker 8 (06:30):
I started out as a medical doctor, and I was
always interested in natural medicine, so I went on to
do a fellowship in integrated medicine in the States, which
is basically evidence based natural medicine, including plant medicine botanical medicine,
and I really got into cannabis specifically quite late. I'd
been using other plant medicines botanicals alongside drugs in a
conventional medical practice setting for you know, the last decade,
(06:54):
and my patients were using cannabis for years in Canada,
but until relatively recently, it was really it's difficult to
actually prescribe cannabis, as you guys all know, because before
we had kind of registered products with Health Canada, there
was just kind of grow your own. So my patients
were growing their own. They were treating themselves for chronic pain,
for cancer, pain, for all.
Speaker 9 (07:15):
Kinds of things.
Speaker 8 (07:16):
And because I do natural medicine as well as normal stuffy,
they talked to me about it, and I got really
curious and they were getting all these really interesting effects.
And then I became a chronic pain patient myself. I
had a really bad accident shattered my hand. I started
using it topically, and then I just kind of took
the leap and added it to my practice at the time,
which felt quite bold because most of my colleagues had
(07:38):
it was completely insane to add this to a conventional
medicine practice. And there was a lot of fear around,
you know, adding this as a therapeutic, that someone might
try to dispar me from medicine, or I might, you know,
I don't know, make someone really lazy or cause sidecosis.
There was all kinds of you know, things that we've
(07:58):
been taught and kind of brain watched our medical.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Sure, it kind of goes against the grain.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
I mean for most physicians and people that are in
the in the in doctors and things of that, they've
never utilized it. So a lot of times I've talked
to a lot of doctors and they're s fraighted person.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
They never taught it in school, well, in the school
that they went.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
To the end, the cannabinoid system didn't exist, so they
didn't really know how to how to bring it up.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
And and I think that's you know, you're when you
say they.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Didn't exist Blue, And I'm just wondering, do you think that.
I don't know if you know, but maybe I'm sure
doctor Danny does. Did they not talk about the cannabinoids
sister system when you're going to become a doctor.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
They didn't even know that, right.
Speaker 8 (08:37):
It was discovered in nineteen eighty nine slash nineteen ninety,
but it didn't filter into medical school. So I started
my training in twenty four, two thousand and five, and
in medical school after my other degrees, and I graduated
in two thousand and nine, so that's over a decade ago.
Speaker 9 (08:54):
There was nothing, and even still now we're just seeing.
Speaker 8 (08:58):
Mainstream medical school start to introduce the endocannabinoid system. So
it's been a thirty year leg between some of the
first lectures, and I've been blessed enough to deliver some
of these lectures in the UK at some of the
top universities. And Professor David Nottt, who's a big drug
researcher over here, he has done a program recently and
(09:18):
it's trickling down, but it's taken thirty years. So of
course that's why doctors don't think it works. They think
it's they think it's you know, snake oil. They think
it's very dangerous, very high risk. You know, if you
ask the doctors, they think cannabis is in the same
risk category as cocaine or heroin. So it's really misunderstood
(09:40):
within the medical profession even still today.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
What's crazy though, is granted is a thirty year lag
from when they discovered it, but my god, it's been
in our systems.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Forever since we were born, right.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
Right, I mean, it's been around since as long as
we've been around breast milk. I mean the fact that
only thirty years ago they discovered it is crazy.
Speaker 8 (10:01):
Yeah, I mean we of course, you know, the cannabinoids
we get from plants are called phytocannabinoids. They're similar to yes,
the natural chemicals our brain and body produces in this
endocannabinoids system, and yeah, it's you know, one of the
theories when you talk to plant scientists is that we
kind of evolved over thousands and thousands of years alongside
(10:23):
certain plants in our environment, and that's potentially why we
can use certain plant medicines like cannabinoids and other botanical
medicines that they work with in our own bodies, because
our bodies kind of adapted and kind of evolved with
these plants with similar, similar chemicals. So it's really interesting.
Speaker 6 (10:41):
Wow, what do you think it's going to take for
the medical community as a whole to embrace cannabis.
Speaker 8 (10:49):
Finally, Well, I think there's lots of different things that
need to happen. I do a lot of volunteer nonprofit
work on that side of things. So I sit on
about ten different committees. Some of them are drug policy
committees for government groups, some of them were just physician
support groups, nonprofit groups. And I think it's a mix
of education for doctors, education for the public. You know,
(11:12):
research we need. We definitely need more research. I'm all
about more research, but just because we don't have you know,
these huge clinical trials. Yet I don't think that means
we should not use cannabis medicines for another ten years,
because what's everyone going to do in the meantime these
children with epilepsy and chronic people of chronic pain. And
so I think it's research, it's education, and then we
(11:34):
have to have law and legislation changes because you know,
if it's not supported on the legal side, then also
things don't change. It just comes around in this like
ivory cycle of research, research, research, and it doesn't get
fed back into the system.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Doctor.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
When when was the time that you that you decided,
wait a minute, this is this is really happening. I
really need to investigate it myself. I need to figure
out when was it for you? What was your oh
wow moment? You know, maybe share that with some of
our listeners because a lot of I think a lot
of people were waiting for that oh wow moment in
their own life to cross over. So if you can
(12:11):
share that with this, that'd be great.
Speaker 8 (12:13):
Yeah. So I think part of it was gradual because,
like I said, I've always been interested in plant mess
and I'm trained in plant medicine as well as normal
you know, conventional medicine. But I think the real turning
point for me was in twenty fifteen when I had
my accident and I had two partially successful surgeries.
Speaker 9 (12:29):
On my hand.
Speaker 8 (12:31):
I still, you know, cannabis hasn't cured my anatomical hand problem.
Speaker 9 (12:34):
I still have no ligaments left in this risk.
Speaker 8 (12:36):
But basically, if I got hit by a motorcycle, grew
through the air in a superman position and shattered my wrist,
so yeah, that was that.
Speaker 9 (12:45):
Was not ideal.
Speaker 8 (12:47):
And I was told by surgeres on multiple continents. I
saw the top people in I saw the top person
in Singapore where I originally had the injury, in Asia
when I was traveling. Then I saw the top person
in Canada and the top person the UK, and they
all kind of said, yeah, you're gonna have to take
pay medicine for the rest of your life.
Speaker 9 (13:04):
This is never going to get better.
Speaker 8 (13:07):
And I had a really bad nerve pain, I had
nerve damage, and in the end, I just didn't want
to take any of that stuff because I'd seen what
I had done to my patients. And I ended up
trying topical cannabis at my medical conference, at my intercrim
medicine conference, and a colleague who was already researching it
at the time, said, you know, you should go get
a sample from those guys because it's legal here. And
I just started using it topically for a week. And
(13:28):
my patients had been telling me this for years, of course,
So I got back to Canada. I had to leave
it in California because I couldn't take over of the border,
and well, I was sure if I could, so I didn't.
Speaker 7 (13:41):
This is just cream, yeah exactly.
Speaker 8 (13:45):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 9 (13:45):
I got back to Canada and that was the turning point.
Speaker 8 (13:47):
That's when I was like, okay, right, I'm already I
was already coaching my patients who are using cannabis and
growing it to try to get higher CBD or you know,
more THHC and try to help them and coach them.
But it was more from a harm reduction capacity. And
that's when I made the shift and joined a clinic
who was prescribing cannabis, and I started prescribing it as
part of my integrated medicine practice basically, and my patients,
(14:09):
of course were like, duh, We've been telling you this.
Speaker 6 (14:12):
For years, so you so you problems are legal hurdles,
you had to you had to worry about when you
were going to be uh, you know, telling people to
use it.
Speaker 8 (14:23):
That's you know, it's one of it's the fear I
think that's instilled into us as physicians, and I have
quite an academic background. I'm also a published researcher, so
I think it was the fear more than the actual
legal action. And my husband, who's who helps me run
my practice, and he's not a doctor, he's more on
like the business tech side, he was just like, you
just got to go for it.
Speaker 9 (14:43):
This is what you believe in. This is going to
help your patients.
Speaker 8 (14:47):
There's no there's nothing they can do to you legally
as long as you're practicing good medicine, which I was.
So I really went about it in a very systematic way.
I only took referred patients from other doctors, my letters
back to the doctor who referred them. We're you know,
nine pages long kind of things, so I probably probably
went over the top, and nothing that ever happened to me.
(15:08):
I've never been reported to the college. I've never had
any black marks against my record professionally, but there's a
lot of fear mongering that that's going to happen to doctors.
Speaker 9 (15:19):
And when I now, I I volunteer a lot of
my tend to.
Speaker 8 (15:21):
Mentors colleagues who is starting and they're petrified of getting
their license taken away.
Speaker 9 (15:27):
And you know, people have to.
Speaker 8 (15:29):
Remember, like we trained for fifteen years and to have
the potential that your.
Speaker 9 (15:35):
Whole career can be taken away.
Speaker 8 (15:36):
And most doctors going to medicine because they just want
to help people, and then you just can't help your
patients at all.
Speaker 9 (15:41):
That's like really scary.
Speaker 8 (15:42):
So I think most of it, as you know, as
a lawyer, both of you guys are lawyers. There's not
a lot they can do legally as long as you're
practicing good medicine. And that's really my message to doctors who.
Speaker 9 (15:55):
Are starting, like, look we can which I.
Speaker 8 (15:57):
Can give you information, I could give you advice.
Speaker 9 (15:59):
On how to practice, so you're not in any kind
of legals. Five mars.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Well, guys, it's Cannabis talk one on one. When we
come back, doctor Danny Gordon, you won't want to miss this.
We'll be right back. Welcome back, guys, Welcome back.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
So doctor, you know, I love where you're going with this,
and so you know I'm listening to your story about
how it actually feels like it's you know, actually helped
you personally, this plant, you know, with your own pains
and the things that you've been the.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Key part to a life right, Once you get a
personal touch to something, you're like, oh, I believe in
this now well.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
And again again doctor for you saying it.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
You know, I I love it because you know, a
lot of doctors will never prescribe it. I think, you know,
until it's and just tell it's federally legal and tell
it's forced on them, you know. And then you have
the the you know, the people like yourself that have
actually experienced something. And one key thing that resonated well
with me is that you've had patients, you know, tell you, hey,
(17:07):
this helps me, and you're going, you know, probably tell
them just the outset like you're probably just at the.
Speaker 7 (17:13):
Beginning too, going I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
And now you're like, hey, let me tell you about
something that's crazy and something that you touched on. As
we're talking to doctor Danny Gordon. You can see your
website at doctor Danny Gordon dot com and that's d
R D A N I G O R d O
N and you speak internationally about CBD and cannabis at conferences,
trade shows, and you've been featured in The Sunday Times,
(17:36):
The Guardian, Forbes, BBC Television and Radio, Fast Company, Vogue,
The Telegraph and many more publications. And you've been talking
about research and you mentioned it earlier on the show
as you're a part of a lot of research. Blue
and I have been on the research side since Jump Street,
Mark and Craig Garmore just use cannabis however you can
(17:58):
smoke it do this. I've always been I want to
see the research and this is what I'm asking you.
When do you think you'll see something like this happen,
which is if you take or better yet, if I'll
use myself as an anecdotal person, if I take four advils,
I know my pain level goes down. When are we
going to see something or is there research being looked
(18:18):
at going If you take a two to one CBD,
if you eat this money grams of edibles and your
two hundred and fifty pounds or more, this should help
for that type of pain. Is that type of research
being structured and looked at right now?
Speaker 8 (18:32):
Absolutely? And it's really complex because basically what you have
in conventional medicine is you have the conventional drug way
of drug funnel basically, so most drugs have a single
active ingredient and it's easy to put those in studies
because you're just looking at one active ingredient.
Speaker 9 (18:50):
But herbal cannabis, of course, has hundreds of active ingredients.
Speaker 8 (18:54):
So it's tricky. So there's a few different ways to
approach it. There's something called real world evidence or real
worlds data, and the FDA has actually released a whole
paper on it a few years ago. So you know,
that's really good news because this is actually telling us
that their regulatory bodies are interested in expanding what they
(19:15):
consider good research or acceptable research. So what it actually
means in English is they're starting to accept things like
patient re self report data.
Speaker 9 (19:24):
So patients are saying, I'm going to check.
Speaker 8 (19:27):
Do this question air online of how my pain is
improving with my cannabis, and this is the strain I'm using,
and this is the CBD THHC ratio, and all my
data is getting tracked a.
Speaker 9 (19:40):
Lot of people tracking that data.
Speaker 8 (19:42):
Of course they are private companies, which there's nothing wrong
with that, but of course it has to come from
academia as well, because that's a trusted standard and it's
unbiased and this kind of thing, so it is starting
in academia as well.
Speaker 9 (19:54):
So there's two sides of the research.
Speaker 8 (19:55):
There's the herbal cannabis which has to use real world data,
so it has to look at how people are responding
to the therapy, because trying to isolate what of the
hundred compounds from this particular strain is completely almost scientifically impossible.
Speaker 9 (20:11):
And then you have the other side of it.
Speaker 8 (20:12):
Where scientists and research are separating the cannabinoids out like
CBD and THC what we saw with epidialects, the drug
that was approved by the FDA for epilepsy, and then
you can isolate each compound and study how that specifically works.
And people always say, well, what do you prefer? Oh,
(20:33):
I say, well, of course, both because real world data
helps us help patients now and the single kind of
isolated compounds from the cannabis plant also help us understand
from a more longer term perspective and help eventually make
more drugs available for people that are a bit more
natural than sometimes what has already been prescribed to them.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
So real world data would be the same as anecdotal.
Speaker 8 (21:01):
It's a good question. So anecdotal data is at the
bottom of what's called the evidence pyramids, so it's the
worst kind of real world data. So a real world
data is this huge thing. It can be observational data,
it can be huge data sets from people who are
of a similar background, in a similar kind of age group,
(21:21):
and they have the same medical problem, they're using the
same strain. So there's all kinds of ways of collecting
real world data, and some are better than others.
Speaker 5 (21:30):
Is that Project twenty twenty one.
Speaker 8 (21:35):
Yes, I'm an advisor to Project twenty twenty one and
I sit on a Professor Davidnuts Committee for Drug Science.
Speaker 9 (21:42):
So that is the biggest We aim for it to
be the biggest real.
Speaker 8 (21:45):
World data collection and it's going to be taking place
in the UK. It's already started the first small sets,
so we hope that that will make quite an impact.
And then there's other people from Professor Nuts group who
are working on other data, cost effectiveness data, which is
really important to get governments to adopt this in a
public health system.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
Let me ask you this, and I not to labored
the anecdotal evidence because we use that quite a bit,
and I want to make sure we're using it in
the proper context. When I'm reading your bio and I'm
reading about Project twenty twenty one. It basically is a
registry that aims to enroll twenty thousand patients by the
end of twenty twenty one and create the largest body
of evidence for the effectiveness and tolerability of medical cannabis.
(22:29):
So is that not patients going into a registry and
saying I did this, I did that, I'm better now?
Speaker 8 (22:36):
Is yes, in a controlled way? So those are patients
who have seen a specialist doctor here in the UK,
many of who I've mentored and trained actually, because it's
quite new here steal for medical cannabis specifically, and they've
had what's called the called invalidated questionnaire tools. So basically
(22:56):
it's a really specific way of asking people questions about
how they're responding to a therapy. So it's been done
in a medical clinic context, and it's been collected in
a really rigorous fashion and really kind of controlled specific way,
and that makes the data more valuable because we can
know more that know more about the data's trustworthiness, so
(23:20):
to speak. So yeah, that is really the goal of
the project and hopefully we will be able to meet
those numbers.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
As opposed to as opposed to I took cannabis, I
feel better, Right, that's anecdotal. I'm guessing that's that's why
that that's why it's not controlled. You don't have your
your your your questionneers that have been you know at length,
you know, come up with and put in different category.
Speaker 7 (23:46):
Doctor Danny.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
At the beginning of your book, you actually used the
word you had a lot of patients give you anecdotal evidence.
Speaker 7 (23:52):
And I've seen that word. I almost called you when
I was reading the book, going dude.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
She used anecdotal evidence in her book, So, well, that's
probably are it's starting.
Speaker 9 (24:01):
You know, you have to remember it. So you have
to start somewhere.
Speaker 8 (24:03):
Every breakthrough in medicine over thousands of years has started
with a case report, someone saying this worked for me,
and then you say, well, why why did it work?
Is it going to work for the next person? The
same way, and you just kind of work your way
back and back and back. But you have to start somewhere.
Speaker 6 (24:21):
I got a question about smoking cannabis because we've seen.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
Study that it's harmful for your lungs.
Speaker 6 (24:28):
There's studies that it's good for your lungs.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
What's what's comment on that and your take on that?
Speaker 8 (24:34):
So the evidence is what we call conflicted, which means
we don't really know, which is of course something we're
not sure.
Speaker 9 (24:42):
We just don't. We just don't say that we know.
Speaker 8 (24:44):
But yeah, so basically what I tell my patients is
when you burn any plant material, it's generally not so
great for the lungs because it creates you know, burned material,
it creates inflammatory compounds, that kind of thing. But cannabis
is a plant, of course, I'll so has a lot
of anti inflammatory compounds too, So that's why we think
we don't see the same.
Speaker 9 (25:06):
Rates of lung cancer and.
Speaker 8 (25:08):
Lung disease that we see with cigarette smoking that we
do with with you know, smoking cannabis. But for medical
and wellness purposes then of course I always recommend people
use a vaporizer and use the lowest temperature setting that
they can find helps them. Now, of course some people
find that the higher temperature settings, because you get different
(25:28):
cannabinoid kind of vaporising off at different temperatures, might be
more effective for their pain. But I always have them
to start at a lower temperature and then work their
way up for harm reduction type stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
You know, in your professional opinion, what do you think
the best way to to ingest it is or to
take in cannabis? I mean, is it going to be smoking,
is it going to be that you know, the tinctures
or you know, what do you what do you think
the future of it looks like.
Speaker 8 (25:56):
Again, for the medical side and the wellness side, certainly
there's avariety of ways to take it depending on what
effect you want to have. So for someone who has
a chronic condition that they need constant relief and they
might have been on opioid painkillers before, I want them
on a low level of like a long acting formula.
So that could be something like a tincture they take
(26:17):
by mouth. That could be a patch that's transdermal through
the skin, which is kind of a newer technology that's
coming out now, but it's pretty new Stoll. That could
be some of these high tech formulations that come in
a pill form that are kind of tecked up to
release the kannabinoids more slowly into a bloodstream. And then
after that, when people have pain crises or they have
(26:38):
muscle spasm and they need immediate relief. Then the inhaled way.
Speaker 9 (26:43):
Is really effective because it's on set. It's like five minutes.
Speaker 8 (26:46):
So you inhale the cannabis five minutes later, usually you
will have an effect. So usually I say baseline of
long acting just like most drugs actually for pain control
and then for rescue.
Speaker 9 (26:59):
There inhales is very effective.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
So so many patients. You've seen thousands of them. And
now I want to sit in doctor Danny Gordon's office
and say your patient is Joke Rende And I've had
two hip surgeries.
Speaker 7 (27:12):
I have a bad ankle, doctor Gordon.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
And when I say I have a bad ankle I've
been scheduled for surgery on it because I cracked it
in eighth grade. It's been ongoing. I now have arthritis
and my hips. I've been currently using CBD on a
daily basis and cream. My pain level went from I
would say that it's worse about an eight to a
consistent three to four.
Speaker 7 (27:31):
You know.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
And I live and I walk, and I buckle sometimes
when I'm walking, I have a legal handicapped sticker, and
I'm just wondering, you know, being an old athlete, you know,
forty eight and I played football, rugby, about every sport
you can imagine wrestling growing up. Is there anything else
that I should be consuming besides the daily use of CBD?
Speaker 7 (27:50):
And is there a.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Special CBD that I should be using a different ratio
because I'm using pretty much, you know, point zero three
on the THIGHTC side, and I'm using the cream that
does have THC. So that's kind of my proto call.
I'm wondering if I can get a consult back.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
Now wait, wait, you forgot about the worst problem you have.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Having you next to me, I was gonna say the
thing that's wrong with your brain doctor?
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Before you answer that doctor did ask them? Please ask
them for his cope.
Speaker 7 (28:24):
It doesn't work in London.
Speaker 8 (28:27):
Medical advice on social media, as I have to say
many times. But if you were my patient and you
came to me, this is a really typical pain consultation
that I would receive. So it really depends on quite
a few factors. The first one is more from a
legal perspective.
Speaker 9 (28:42):
Do you have to do a.
Speaker 8 (28:44):
Safety sense of his job during the day, Because if
answer is yes, then the THC being.
Speaker 9 (28:49):
Kept really low is probably important for most people.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Maybe I should add a couple more things, Doctor Danny.
I've also been sober twenty two plus years, so I've
been kind of negligent on you know, coming anything with
a higher level. I should have put that in my
consultation as well, and I had the two surgeries.
Speaker 7 (29:06):
Yeah, so that's why i've been you know.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
But but I'm not opposed to doing it from a
medical standpoint. If it's going to help with my inflammation
as it gets worse, sometimes I don't want it gets colder, exactly.
I'm not opposed it for the medical standpoint. I'm just
I'm not but I am for myself opposed to just
use it to feel.
Speaker 7 (29:27):
Better during the day or at night.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
I don't want to just feel better at night and
smoke a joint or something, you know. I mean, I
want to feel better because I use it for medicine.
I use it for pain relief. So I should have
elaborated I did, right.
Speaker 8 (29:40):
That's it's a great and that's actually a part of.
Speaker 9 (29:43):
Our intake form.
Speaker 8 (29:45):
So by the Canadian practice that I was a part of,
that's part of our intake is risk of cannabis addiction,
past history of other you know, substance use or misuse,
because it helps us kind of counsel the patient sitting
in front of us. So if I have someone who
has been sober and they've had a past history with
(30:06):
any substance, especially if it was cannabis, but it could
be alcohol, it could.
Speaker 9 (30:10):
Be cocaine, whatever it was.
Speaker 8 (30:13):
Yeah, okay, so we call it polysubstance. So you know,
in a harm reduction capacity, we would want to start
with exactly what you're currently doing with that kind of
hemp level of high CBD, really low THFC. Now it
gets trickier because people are not too dimensional. So if
(30:33):
I have a patient I've had this before in my
clinic that comes to me and they already have to
take prescription opioids and they've had a history of struggling
with substances, I want to get them off the opioids
right at least want to be able to slowly reduce
them down. And that's when we usually talk about how
bad is their pain, and oftentimes they're often medicating with
(30:56):
substances like alcohol to help their pain and to help
them get to sleep because they're in pay all the
time and it can't sleep.
Speaker 9 (31:01):
So it's this whole matrix that gets quite tricky.
Speaker 8 (31:04):
And we have to sit down and we have to
say what's the least harmful thing to do here? And
sometimes we do use medical cannabis with THHC higher amounts,
but I always buffer it with a lot of CBB,
so the ratio is still quite high, and I.
Speaker 9 (31:18):
Usually tell people please don't smoke it, and usually.
Speaker 8 (31:21):
Not inhaled if there's a past history of misuse or
a really strong family history of addiction, because some people's
brains are wired for that dopamine, that that feel good
reward chemical from any chemical, including cannabis, so that is
a factor we need better paying control, especially if they're
having to self medicate with alcohol or.
Speaker 9 (31:45):
Strong sleeping pills or opioids.
Speaker 8 (31:48):
Then we start by keeping this CBD really high because
we think that actually buffers the risk of addiction in
the preliminary research, which is super cool. And then we
add usually in the night time before they go to
a baseline of a long acting one to one, so
half CBD half THHC oil or tincture that's going to
(32:09):
be slow release, so they don't get the same reward
to the brain, but they're getting that baseline pain relief
that the THHD can bring.
Speaker 9 (32:18):
So that's usually my approach, and you know.
Speaker 8 (32:20):
Oftentimes I'm working with a psychiatrist who's involved or a
psychologist who's involved in their care.
Speaker 9 (32:25):
So it's really this multi dimensional team approach.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Well Blue my psychiatrist semi therapist. So do you think
a one to one would work good for doctor Daniel?
Speaker 3 (32:33):
You know, I think I think the reality behind it
is is that I think it can help, you know,
even for people that have addiction personality, as long as
they understand what they're going into, you know, and don't
turn it into a slippery slope, because again you can
go get one day, no quick fix, and that's what
want the quick fix, right and and what and what
she is prescribing though is something far from that quick exactly.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
It's it really shows how because we've been told by
other experts in the past that you know, that's a
concert effect with the CBD and the THC and the
THCA and all the different sub CBDs and THCs and
that really so this really shows by the you know,
taking a tinsture that slow release, so over the course
(33:20):
of the evening or however long, it's you know, it's
starting to work, not taking that hit and go oh
and then that could trigger your addiction and it could
be a gateway back into the crack.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Oh yeah, I would, yeah, exactly, And I don't think
that cannabis is the quote unquote gateway. But I just
know for me personally, I like taking my advice was
correct me if I'm wrong, doctor Danny. What I really
heard from that is taking a one to one at
night is probably the best hinkster. Tinkster is that I
just WASO hoping one to one. I just get one
one and it's.
Speaker 7 (33:51):
All party together, go home with one in one person.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
I don't care who it is, but oh one, sorry
that we have to have fun still, right?
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (34:00):
But doctor Danny, correct me if I'm wrong. From everything
you said, that was very great to hear. I took
from it trying what I'm doing now during the day,
but a one to one at night before I go
to bed.
Speaker 8 (34:13):
Yeah, And I would say just do it under medical supervision,
because if that's the history, you want someone being able
to monitor from an objective point of view. So when
I prescribe for patients with that kind of history, I'm
monitoring them really closely. What's going on, what's going on
with their cravings? Tomorrow to other people involved. They usually
(34:35):
I always have to usually have a psychiatrist assess them
as well, so I'm really careful because of course everyone
has a different threshold. I have colleagues who are a
little bit more cavalier, but they have had the occasional not.
Speaker 9 (34:51):
So good outcome.
Speaker 8 (34:53):
It's not common. But I am much more conservative, I think.
But I've never had someone and get addicted to the
medical cannabis I've prescribed for them. So everyone has their
own way of practicing, but that's my way to be
very cautious. Keep the CBD really high. So even if
you add THC, still really keep the CBD really high
(35:15):
dose because it seems to buffer that kind of addictive response.
Speaker 7 (35:19):
You know.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
One of the things that I was always you know,
telling Joe's I think he should if he does do
it's just microdose, you know, come in very very very slow,
very very slow, very very slight.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
I like to think at night because it makes sense
if I still stay high on the CBD all day
like I do, and then I just take it at night,
which will help me go to bed, because I have
a hard time going to sleep at night as well, right,
So that would be I think that's that's a great
advice actually, but I think again.
Speaker 5 (35:43):
But I think the point is though that the slow
release is not necessarily going to help you sleep. I
may be wrong, but you're getting the you're getting the
medicinal value of the THC. That's not getting you high.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Right, there's exactly you know. I'd be very.
Speaker 8 (35:58):
Kenny Bow actually because PHC can be more sus sensitive
for many people, but some people it's the strain effect
as well. So for example, if you end up trying
the strategy and you try a one to one from
a certain strain and you feel wired, it light the
terpene profile, it might be the other cannabinoids in there,
because you don't know everything yet. So I've had that
(36:21):
happen to patience. So I always tell them to listen,
this should be calling. But you feel wired, you need
to come back and tell me because you need.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
This was the strain right.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Well, guys, it's Cannabis Talk one on one. We're talking
to doctor Danny Gordon, the world famous doctor Danny Gordon,
and we'll be right back after this break.
Speaker 5 (36:47):
Welcome back to Cannabis Talk one to one here with
Joe Grande, Blue Me and my brother the Pop Brothers
at Law and doctor Danny Gordon with a great interview
so far. She's author of the of the CBD Bible,
the CBD Bible, and we're hearing from what we're hearing
(37:09):
from her, she has every right to write the CBD vibe.
Speaker 7 (37:13):
I mean, she speaks truth.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
Not only that she was the youngest doctor to become
the American Board Certified and Integrated and Holistic Medicine, she
joins cannabis from anecdotal evidence. And because of this anecdotal evidence,
right now, I'm about to point out to you, doctor Danny.
You heard me just say, Mark, bring us back in.
But Mark's already smoked three joints during this interview when
(37:35):
we're doing this, do you think this anecdotal evidence prove
Hold on, Mark, don't make me turn you off.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Don't make me turn you off.
Speaker 7 (37:42):
Please.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
So I'm asking you, doctor Danny, do you think he's
either stupid deaf or because he smoked three joints, he
didn't cut her hand when I said Mark bring us
back that he normally.
Speaker 7 (37:55):
I'm talking to doctor Danney.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
Mark. Hey, Hey, hey, languageuage little brother. Language.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Can I talk to doctor Danny and ask her a question.
So I'm asking you, doctor Danny, what you just witnessed?
Do you think that that was because you know what, Joe?
I want to let me ask doctor Danny this.
Speaker 7 (38:13):
I want to know the answer.
Speaker 5 (38:14):
How old were you when you started.
Speaker 8 (38:18):
When I started in medicine? I well, my first degree,
I started when I was seventeen.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Wow.
Speaker 8 (38:23):
And then I got into medical school when I was
funny to turning twenty one, So I started pretty early.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
How did you get involved in becoming a doctor so young?
Where did this drive come from?
Speaker 9 (38:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (38:34):
I was a weird kid. I was always really driven. Yeah,
I was. I was that weird, nerdy kid.
Speaker 7 (38:40):
You know.
Speaker 5 (38:40):
I want to ask you so awesome though, before before
we get to the high five, I want to ask
you a question for myself and a lot of our listeners.
If I want to get CBD, you know, HEMP derived CBD,
what you can get anywhere, everywhere, all over the world,
how do I look to see if it's good or
(39:01):
if it's if it's snake oil, if it's you know,
there's no real best practices.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
I don't it ever works for me?
Speaker 5 (39:07):
So how how do you know you're getting something that's
you know, that's decent or good or or is there
top shelf.
Speaker 9 (39:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (39:15):
I always tell people, and I talk about this a
lot in the book, because it is a question that's
so important. It's it's a tricky one because you know,
there's a lot of brands that do things really well,
but there's a lot of brands that don't. So the
safest thing to do is look for what's called the
CooA from a product or certificate of analysis, which means
that that product has been tested by a third party,
(39:37):
independent scientific laboratory to say, hey, yes, it has this
much CBD in it, just like we said it did,
and it doesn't have any of this other stuff that
we said it didn't have in it, like heavy metals
or high THC. If you're looking for a hand product,
for example, and just use a reputable brand and look
for those things.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
One more question, how did the No. I don't know
if it affects you where you're over where you are,
but the DEA changed the rules on hamp here in
calif in the United States. Have you heard about that?
Speaker 8 (40:12):
I don't. I can't say I know much about that
at the moment. No, because it's different over here. And
different in Canada as well.
Speaker 5 (40:18):
They're counting the I think it's the the I forget
about the mark. Do you know what the Delta eight. Yeah,
they're counting.
Speaker 8 (40:28):
They're counting down to eight now as as an illegal class.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
One correct rights, which actually gets fear over.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
A lot of the point zero three is where the
Delta eight wasn't counted. Point three, big brother, point point three.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah, Delta eight is huge right now.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
I mean in smoke shops, it's everywhere, and it's getting
people completely high.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
And I'm sure there's a lot of medical Delta eight.
Speaker 5 (40:50):
No, Delta eight doesn't get your high, doesn't.
Speaker 8 (40:53):
Delta is mildless, more psychoap well, psycho memetic, which is
a really scientific, fancy word of it can make you
feel high, but of course that's really subjective, and it's
it's less strong than Delton nine.
Speaker 7 (41:08):
Delta is the.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
One that's going, yeah everywhere.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
Yeah, you're right, it's actually Delta nine that they're showing
it everywhere.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Now.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Yeah, Delta nine is now being sold all throughout like
smoke shops everywhere here locally, you take it.
Speaker 8 (41:23):
Delta nine is I'm sorry, Delta A is the metabolite
of THHC. That is now it sounds like the DA
is taking issue with that's more mildly psycho mimetic, psychoactive. Well,
they're all psychoactives, psychomometic. But it's yeah, I mean, it's
who knows what's going to happen with this legislation. I
(41:44):
mean in Europe right now they're talking about making CBD
classes are narcotic again, which is completely insane, insane.
Speaker 5 (41:52):
It's all over the world.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
It's insane, and it just helps everybody out. We're talking
to doctor Danny Gordon, her book, The CBD Bible. I'm
just curious, doctor or Danny Gordon. As you're in London,
you grew up in Germany.
Speaker 7 (42:03):
All the studies that we've.
Speaker 4 (42:04):
Been seeing coming out lived in Canada.
Speaker 7 (42:07):
Oh you live in Canada. Now, my bad, I thought
you she grew up in Canada. Sorry, grew up in Canada.
Speaker 8 (42:12):
I actually up in the US, but I'm from Canada.
My medical practice is there. I have a transplant.
Speaker 9 (42:18):
But yes, okay.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
So my question is, though, all this research that's been
going on in Israel, and all the research that you've
done for the CBD Bible, how do you utilize and
look at all that stuff, because from our standpoint, I
would say everybody on our team is amazed by what
Israel is doing and how they are, in our opinion,
the forefront of what research is. But yet, of course
(42:40):
in America and I don't know what they do there
in London or Europe for that matter, do they take
Israel's research into consideration and what is your thoughts on it?
Speaker 8 (42:49):
A great question. There's so much great research coming out
of Israel, and the nice thing about what we're seeing
there is they're allowing a lot of these clinical teaching
hospitals to become involved so you have access to patients.
Speaker 9 (43:01):
So it's really a partnership.
Speaker 8 (43:02):
Between industry who are making the products, and the academic
groups and in the hospital, so they're getting a lot
of clinical data which is so valuable.
Speaker 9 (43:11):
So I yes, I value that so much. Now in
the UK, what.
Speaker 8 (43:16):
We're seeing legislatively, on the legal side and on the
government side is there's a bit of an obsession around
UK data.
Speaker 9 (43:25):
So if the study is done in Germany or said
in Israel, then they they don't take as much into consideration.
Speaker 8 (43:31):
With some of these uh, these government bodies that are
you know, trying to we're trying to get them to regulate,
you know, to allow it as a medicine and prescribed
on the public system for example. So my answer is
any good research should be considered no matter what country
is doing it, but some jurisdictions.
Speaker 9 (43:53):
Prefer their own, uh studies from their own area.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
First, well, guys, it's cannabis talk going on, and it's
I'm for the High five.
Speaker 7 (44:03):
Yes it is.
Speaker 4 (44:03):
And I got to tell you, doctor Danny Gordon, everything
you've been saying has been so interesting, and knowing that
you're the youngest doctor to do that, I like how
you called yourself a nerd.
Speaker 7 (44:12):
Like that. I think that's cool.
Speaker 4 (44:13):
I think it's inspiring for a lot of people out there,
let alone young ladies, to go out there and learn
as much as you can and you know, get some
more research because you know, I think the research is
the key. Once we have that research, that's what's going
to change it all for us. And now it's time
for the High five with doctor Danny. Question number one,
how old are you? How old were you the first
(44:33):
time you smoked weed? And where'd you get it from?
Speaker 9 (44:37):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (44:37):
I knew I was going to give this question out
here the first time. Excuse me.
Speaker 9 (44:41):
The first time I smoked weed, I was, let me think,
I have to really think about this.
Speaker 8 (44:47):
Twenty two, twenty two and this. I know it's shocking,
but you got to remember. I grew up in the
States in the War on Drugs era, so I was
petrified of cannabis.
Speaker 9 (45:00):
And all my friends smoked cannabis in high school. I
was one of the only ones, but I was nurse
my brain.
Speaker 5 (45:06):
Where'd you grow up in California?
Speaker 8 (45:08):
I know I grew up in South Carolina.
Speaker 5 (45:10):
We're all missed that.
Speaker 7 (45:13):
We don't know where she's from.
Speaker 5 (45:14):
California, look like a California girl. And where'd you get
it from?
Speaker 8 (45:20):
I got it from? Well, I don't know. If I
said I got it from a friend. I'm not going
to out her a friend who She was just like,
I can't believe.
Speaker 9 (45:30):
You've never tried cannabis. Is ridiculous.
Speaker 8 (45:32):
So she's like, come over, and I willed to join,
and we're going to watch Sex and the City and
so we did, and of course I just laughed the
whole time, and I thought it was great. But it's funny.
I never really I didn't do it again for years.
I just not really into recreational cannabis. It was fun
and I could understand.
Speaker 9 (45:50):
How people liked it.
Speaker 8 (45:51):
We ate some chips, like it was very stereotypical, we
ate potato chips.
Speaker 5 (45:55):
And get to that next.
Speaker 8 (46:00):
And the reason she was using it actually is because
she had an autoimmune condition and she was finding he
was helping her inflammation. And this is before we really
knew any of that stuff.
Speaker 9 (46:08):
She was just like, I really find it helps, Like
I think it helps my jointst.
Speaker 8 (46:12):
So, yeah, that was my first experienced smoking cannabis. And
you know, since then, it's honestly, I've only tried.
Speaker 9 (46:20):
I've only smoked K cannabis a few times. I can
almost say that. I know that sounds so boring.
Speaker 8 (46:25):
It's good for me, you know, I'm just not I'm
not drawn to TC as a substance necessarily, but I
have friends who just love it. They use it instead
of alcohol, and I think it has less harmful effects
on the brave of alcohol.
Speaker 7 (46:42):
Alcohol. And now he just smokes more.
Speaker 5 (46:44):
Question number two, When you do use cannabis, what's your
favorite way to do it?
Speaker 9 (46:51):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (46:51):
Sorry, when I do use cannabis, I would say, well,
I use CBD oil. What's my favorite it depends, I guess,
so topically, I actually like the step with CBD and
THHC for my hand, but I can't get it in
the UK, so when I'm in North America, I use
a topical with both. In the UK, I use HAMP
(47:13):
products because they're just legal here, and same with you know,
for stress, like I'm having a particularly heavy week, I
find a really good dose of CBD, even from HAMPS
is really helpful, and I use it before I start meditating,
so I have a meditation practice. It sounds very boring,
but that is basically how I use it. And as
(47:34):
far as other times I've used THHC, the few times
I have found it really helpful is when I've flown
across the pond over to North America to the States,
and I found when it's the jet legs situation, a
little bit of a THC edible is really really helpful
for me for jet like it just helped me fall asleep.
Speaker 9 (47:54):
So that's the other way I've used on the THHC
side before.
Speaker 3 (47:57):
Very good question number three of the high five I
have with doctor Danny Gordon, Craziest place you've ever used
or smoked cannabis?
Speaker 8 (48:08):
Well, I have to say about on the cannabis smoker,
so got used.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
It, used it or.
Speaker 8 (48:15):
Smoked it, used it or smoked it?
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Crazy place?
Speaker 8 (48:18):
I would say probably at the medical conference, because when
I got the sample of the ale in California, which
is legal, I was putting it on my hand as
I was, you know, at this really conventional medical conference
for a week, and I was telling everyone about it,
and yeah, I guess that's kind of crazy because I
was the only one using it.
Speaker 9 (48:38):
It kind of smelled pretty cannabisy.
Speaker 4 (48:40):
The only doctor there going, wait a minute, are you smoking?
Speaker 6 (48:46):
Doctor Danny Gordon, double board certified medical doctor. Question number
four of the Cannabis Talk one on one high five,
what is your go to munchies when you get on it?
Speaker 9 (48:59):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (48:59):
Well, my god, too much? He's In general, I would say,
rather than being high, because it's so few and far between,
I would have to say Ben and Jerry's vegan ice
cream with the brownie pieces.
Speaker 7 (49:13):
The brownie pieces, I love it. And now with the
monkeys exactly.
Speaker 4 (49:17):
I was just going to say, the pregnancy monch's got
you eating that more often than not nowadays.
Speaker 8 (49:21):
Exactly like every day.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Congratulations on that. The boy or girl it's a boy. Yeah,
are you naming them blue?
Speaker 8 (49:32):
We do have the name, but we're keeping it a
bit quiet because it's a bit of a hippie name,
so we don't want any like it from the family
until it's already too late.
Speaker 4 (49:42):
Awesome, Well, don't do a reveal party where you have
an electronic thing, because out here in California.
Speaker 5 (49:47):
That's the biggest fire ever.
Speaker 7 (49:48):
They had a that's going on right now. Huge. Did
you guys see that out there? This is awful from
a reveal party of the birth.
Speaker 3 (49:55):
Of the baby, and that's the big fire that's going on.
Speaker 4 (49:59):
They to reveal like a machine that when something went off,
Oh my goodness, fireworks.
Speaker 7 (50:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
Question number five with doctor Danny Gordon.
Speaker 4 (50:11):
If you could smoke weed with anyone dead or alive,
who would it be?
Speaker 7 (50:16):
And why?
Speaker 8 (50:18):
Oh man, this is a good one. Who am I
going to choose? Do they have to?
Speaker 9 (50:24):
Does the other person have to smoke weeder?
Speaker 5 (50:27):
Anybody whatever?
Speaker 7 (50:28):
They could be dead live, smoke whatever anybody live.
Speaker 8 (50:32):
I would love to smoke weed with Albert Einstein if
I had to choose, because I'm a huge science nerd
and you know, a lot of his discoveries supposedly were
potentially psychedelically induced, not probably with cannabis, but potentially with
Elsie or something else, which is another area of interest
for me, is psychedelic medicine.
Speaker 9 (50:51):
So that would be my choice.
Speaker 4 (50:53):
Nice, you know, And I got another question going back
to just you know, your book and all the research
that you've done. Because your book, for those who are interested,
you can go out and check out our book called
the CBD Bible, and you can find it on Amazon
or wherever you get your book set. But once again,
the CBD Bible, in your research in stuff that you've done,
have you noticed anybody that over consumes cannabis and it
(51:16):
doesn't affect them the same way?
Speaker 8 (51:19):
Definitely, Some people just have different thresholds. So some person
can say the same amount of grams per day and
be intoxicated or have potentially an unhealthy relationship with cannabis,
and then the next person can see the same amount
and feel that it makes them more normally.
Speaker 9 (51:35):
And a lot of times there's some really.
Speaker 8 (51:36):
Back chronic pain patients or patients who are potentially not
neurologically I say normal, but you know, yeah, what we've
considered medically normalized that feel more normal when they smoke cannabis.
Speaker 4 (51:49):
So if someone's doing five thousand milligrams a day to
go to bed, would that be something that they should
just consistently go higher on? Are something that is normal?
Speaker 8 (52:00):
I start with one milligram to one milligrams and in
older in like older adults like over the age of
sixty five, but two milligrams in.
Speaker 9 (52:11):
Adults, Well, I have.
Speaker 5 (52:14):
Someone doing all someone doing that high levels every day.
Is we've heard people talk about reset, reset your body.
Does it really help to like not smoke for three
four days and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 8 (52:27):
There there's there's wash up protocols which would take me
an hour to go into. But basically, the more you
smoke more consistently, it takes longer for your.
Speaker 9 (52:35):
Body to get rid of the THC.
Speaker 8 (52:38):
So if if you know, if I smoke THHC, can
I barely ever smoke it? It would just leave my
body a lot faster than someone who smokes it every day, which,
of course I always I get the occasional call over
here with someone who's flown to the to the United
Area of Emirates or something terrible, and they smoked cannabis
maybe at a party twenty days ago, and.
Speaker 9 (52:59):
They just got tested at the airport.
Speaker 8 (53:01):
It's still in their bloodstream and they're arrested.
Speaker 9 (53:02):
So it's so variable.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
They test you at the airport, if.
Speaker 8 (53:09):
You get taken aside, you can be tested in a
lot of.
Speaker 3 (53:14):
And if you have it in your system, I'm not
going there.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
What a second, you're arrested.
Speaker 5 (53:20):
That's an Arab country.
Speaker 9 (53:22):
That's in an air country, so there's different laws over there.
Speaker 8 (53:24):
So of course, wow, that little brother can't go anywhere.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
Ever.
Speaker 8 (53:31):
Yeah, I'm always counseling them on their travel and these
are the legal things we have to make our patients
aware of.
Speaker 4 (53:38):
As you point that out, and as you mentioned the RESET,
And I'm just wondering, Danny, when you've had any patients
that of research did the research on the reset? Has
there been any type of protocols that they have, any
type of you know, jonesing, relapsed feeling like, is there
some things that have happened withdrawals?
Speaker 7 (53:58):
Thank you, anything like that.
Speaker 8 (54:00):
Yeah, there is a cannabis withdrawal of syndrome. It usually
comes from THC and it's variable from person to person.
It usually doesn't last anywhere longer than fourteen days, usually
seven and light occasional users but it can make people
feel irritable, have more trouble sleeping. So yeah, it's part
of the discussion when I give someone medical cannabis that
(54:21):
that can happen because we actually remember just because it's natural.
I mean, belladonna is natural.
Speaker 9 (54:26):
There's lots of natural things that can kill you.
Speaker 8 (54:28):
So I think it's important to be really transparent, you know,
with people that this. Of course, there's going to be
potential downsides, especially when you start pushing to THC higher.
Speaker 7 (54:38):
Well Mark, I hoped that was beneficial to hear about
a friend of mine.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Well doctor, you know.
Speaker 3 (54:42):
I Before we get out of here, you know, first
of all, I want to thank you for being on
the show and sharing so much education and all the
research you've done and dealing with your patients, and congratulations
on your book.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
And obviously you're newborn. We're excited to hear.
Speaker 3 (54:58):
Soon to be Blue, you know, your new child, baby
baby Blue out of London. Is there anything else that
you'd like to you know, get out there to the
audience before we let you go here.
Speaker 9 (55:11):
Thanks we covering most of it, but just thank you
so much for having me.
Speaker 8 (55:14):
Guys.
Speaker 9 (55:14):
It was such a fun show.
Speaker 4 (55:16):
Absolutely and Helpe you spread the word out there in
London because we're very well listened to in the UK,
so we're looking for you to you know, branch us
out even more.
Speaker 9 (55:26):
Well.
Speaker 8 (55:27):
Actually, one of my friends has just launched a new
project that I am advising.
Speaker 9 (55:31):
On called can Cards, so I actually told her to
reach out to you.
Speaker 8 (55:34):
So she's basically working with the Police Commissioner with one
of our MP's every year with a few of US
doctors to help patients you have to criminalize themselves basically
to access cannabis.
Speaker 9 (55:45):
Illegally for a medical purpose to not be arrested.
Speaker 8 (55:48):
So yeah, I've told her we're going to spread the word.
Speaker 2 (55:51):
Nice, fantastic.
Speaker 5 (55:52):
You have a great rest of the day out there.
Speaker 2 (55:54):
Well, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 3 (55:55):
Night n you guys too, well, thank you for joining
us as Cannabis Talk one on one.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Remember this. If no one else loves you, we do.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
Thanks for listening to another podcast of Cannabis Talk one
oh one, the world's number one source for everything cannabis,
featuring doctor Danny Gordon, author of the CBD Bible,
Now it's time for Cannabis Talk one on one with Blue,
Joe Grande and Mark and Greg Washerman, the pop brothers
in law, with special guest doctor Danny Gordon, author of
the CBD Bible.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hello, welcome to Cannabis Talk one o one. My name
is Blue.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Alongside of me or the world famous pop brothers that law,
mister Mark and Craig Washerman.
Speaker 4 (00:18):
Hello, Well you can't say hi, Craig's on.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
The show Crag.
Speaker 5 (00:26):
You normally go right to Joe.
Speaker 6 (00:27):
Well, I was.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Looking at you els hoping you're going He was looking
at you, and Craig's just looking at the guests, going hi.
Speaker 7 (00:33):
Doctor.
Speaker 5 (00:34):
Today I saw a little brother camera went off, so
it threw me.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Oh okay, we all cut him off already we might.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Well, we also have this amazing specimen next to me,
mister Joe Grande.
Speaker 7 (00:46):
Thank you very much. Blew it's a pleasure to be
sitting next to you.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yes, thank you, sir. I appreciate you as well.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
And Joe, why don't you let everybody in the world
know exactly what's going on Cannabis Talks.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
Funny way you say the world, because this feels like
world interview. I want to thank everyone for listening to
our podcast, Cannabis Talk one on one.
Speaker 7 (01:04):
All over the world. Thank you very much.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
If you ever want to call into the show eight
hundred and four to twenty nineteen eighty, Craig, we have
a lot of Spanish listeners, so please give it an espanol.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
Ocho zeno zeno quatro does zero nuevo o cho zeno.
Speaker 7 (01:18):
In blue in Puerto Rican English.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
It's one eight hundred and four twenty nineteen eighty.
Speaker 7 (01:23):
Guys and Mark, do you have it down yet?
Speaker 6 (01:27):
Trony episyny epis, tony epis.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Wow, Wow, you really graduated from Hebrew class.
Speaker 7 (01:37):
That's Hebrew?
Speaker 8 (01:38):
Say? Is that Hebrew rash?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
And that sexy voice that you hear right there she
needs to say it from her.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Oh yeah, can you say it with the real English accent,
Doctor Danny Gordon.
Speaker 8 (01:48):
It's wow on the Canadian transplant so unfortunately I'm a
little bit limited.
Speaker 7 (01:53):
Well it does sound like it.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
And that voice right there is doctor Danny Gordon. She
is a double board certified medical doctor and one of
the world's leading expert in clinical cannabinoid medicine. After treating
thousands of complex referral patients in Canada, as she says
she's from Canada. She consults widely in the UK and internationally,
sits on an advisory boards and helps set up cannabis
(02:17):
medicine clinics and trained physicians. She's also involved in cannabis
clinic research, nonprofit and advocacy advocacy work as as well
as drug policy reforms. Her new book, which Mark and
I read quite a bit of, is called the CBD Bible.
Welcome Doctor Danny Gordon from across the Pond in London
(02:38):
to Cannabis Talk one oh one. Welcome all right, No,
it is so awesome to have you. First off, how
did this even happen? How did we find you? Because
after reading your book and see I think it was you,
right Mark?
Speaker 7 (02:52):
Did you find her? Does she find you?
Speaker 9 (02:55):
Yeah? It was on via LinkedIn.
Speaker 6 (02:59):
We got a we got a message on our LinkedIn
page about this awesome doctor who's an expert in cannabis
and cannabinoids and the whole nine yards. And I immediately
reached back out and said we got to get get
this doctor on the show. And uh, they were kind
enough to send us that screener book that I I
don't I dove right into it.
Speaker 9 (03:20):
I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 8 (03:21):
I went right to the sex chapter, of course, as
does everybody.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Well, clearly you did, doctor, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (03:28):
I implemented uh a higher dose of edibles in the
last two weeks and it has been amazing for.
Speaker 5 (03:41):
Me and my wife.
Speaker 8 (03:43):
Oh cool, yes.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Yes, So wait, so let's let's specify that, because now
all of us got to read it like you did,
and and and and understood it the same. So let's
dive into that a little bit warm, Mark, I mean,
is this something that she had wrote in her book
that she suggested that you've done and it worked?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
I mean, can you explain that a little bit?
Speaker 6 (04:01):
Yeah, So, so in the book, it it suggests that
the use of CBD, THHC and everybody's gonna be different.
You're gonna have to figure out for yourself. That was
one of the the main themes throughout the book. When
you're you're using cannabis, because of the nature of the
studies and the anecdotal evidence that we all know about,
(04:26):
you've got to kind of play with it and try it.
As everyone on our panel knows, I consume a lot.
Speaker 9 (04:34):
And I have a high tolerance high.
Speaker 6 (04:39):
But I started consuming more after I read your book
to try to help with my sleep, but I found
the offshoot was my sexual prowess and stamina just went
through the roof wow, and it was it was very amazing,
and I wasn't all that And I'm hoping that you
(05:03):
can kind of shed some more light on it for us.
Speaker 8 (05:06):
Well, I mean, I'm glad to hear you've had excellent
results because of course, also in that chapter we talked
about not having it what I call a sex fail,
which is some people who have a very load tolerance
to high THHC cannabis try cannabis for the first time
right in the moments, you know, not really trying it beforehand,
and end up feeling the opposite of sexy or paranoid
(05:29):
or having kind of, you know, the opposite response that
you would watch. So it's exactly true that everyone's dose
is different. Some people prefer high a CBD because it
relaxes them. Some people really like the effects of THHC,
and our brains respond to THC differently for each person,
and some people are very different. So some people's way
(05:50):
that their brain kind of interacts with THC, they can
handle a lot of THHC and feel completely unimpaired versus other.
Speaker 9 (05:57):
People like me.
Speaker 8 (05:59):
If I have a little bit of THC, it really
affects me. So I really stick with the CBD side
of things most of the time for me and my
husband somewhere in between. So everyone's really different, very nice.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
So I know Mark's like to skip right to the
sex part. Yeah, why don't you tell it's a little
bit of How did you get into studying cannabinoids and
cannabis and CBDCs.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
It's so well certified, you have like every certification imaginable.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
It's amazing. So how how did you get into that?
Speaker 9 (06:30):
Well?
Speaker 8 (06:30):
I started out as a medical doctor, and I was
always interested in natural medicine, so I went on to
do a fellowship in integrated medicine in the States, which
is basically evidence based natural medicine, including plant medicine botanical medicine,
and I really got into cannabis specifically quite late. I'd
been using other plant medicines botanicals alongside drugs in a
conventional medical practice setting for you know, the last decade,
(06:54):
and my patients were using cannabis for years in Canada,
but until relatively recently, it was really it's difficult to
actually prescribe cannabis, as you guys all know, because before
we had kind of registered products with Health Canada, there
was just kind of grow your own. So my patients
were growing their own. They were treating themselves for chronic pain,
for cancer, pain, for all.
Speaker 9 (07:15):
Kinds of things.
Speaker 8 (07:16):
And because I do natural medicine as well as normal stuffy,
they talked to me about it, and I got really
curious and they were getting all these really interesting effects.
And then I became a chronic pain patient myself. I
had a really bad accident shattered my hand. I started
using it topically, and then I just kind of took
the leap and added it to my practice at the time,
which felt quite bold because most of my colleagues had
(07:38):
it was completely insane to add this to a conventional
medicine practice. And there was a lot of fear around,
you know, adding this as a therapeutic, that someone might
try to dispar me from medicine, or I might, you know,
I don't know, make someone really lazy or cause sidecosis.
There was all kinds of you know, things that we've
(07:58):
been taught and kind of brain watched our medical.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Sure, it kind of goes against the grain.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
I mean for most physicians and people that are in
the in the in doctors and things of that, they've
never utilized it. So a lot of times I've talked
to a lot of doctors and they're s fraighted person.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
They never taught it in school, well, in the school
that they went.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
To the end, the cannabinoid system didn't exist, so they
didn't really know how to how to bring it up.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
And and I think that's you know, you're when you
say they.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Didn't exist Blue, And I'm just wondering, do you think that.
I don't know if you know, but maybe I'm sure
doctor Danny does. Did they not talk about the cannabinoids
sister system when you're going to become a doctor.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
They didn't even know that, right.
Speaker 8 (08:37):
It was discovered in nineteen eighty nine slash nineteen ninety,
but it didn't filter into medical school. So I started
my training in twenty four, two thousand and five, and
in medical school after my other degrees, and I graduated
in two thousand and nine, so that's over a decade ago.
Speaker 9 (08:54):
There was nothing, and even still now we're just seeing.
Speaker 8 (08:58):
Mainstream medical school start to introduce the endocannabinoid system. So
it's been a thirty year leg between some of the
first lectures, and I've been blessed enough to deliver some
of these lectures in the UK at some of the
top universities. And Professor David Nottt, who's a big drug
researcher over here, he has done a program recently and
(09:18):
it's trickling down, but it's taken thirty years. So of
course that's why doctors don't think it works. They think
it's they think it's you know, snake oil. They think
it's very dangerous, very high risk. You know, if you
ask the doctors, they think cannabis is in the same
risk category as cocaine or heroin. So it's really misunderstood
(09:40):
within the medical profession even still today.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
What's crazy though, is granted is a thirty year lag
from when they discovered it, but my god, it's been
in our systems.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Forever since we were born, right.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
Right, I mean, it's been around since as long as
we've been around breast milk. I mean the fact that
only thirty years ago they discovered it is crazy.
Speaker 8 (10:01):
Yeah, I mean we of course, you know, the cannabinoids
we get from plants are called phytocannabinoids. They're similar to yes,
the natural chemicals our brain and body produces in this
endocannabinoids system, and yeah, it's you know, one of the
theories when you talk to plant scientists is that we
kind of evolved over thousands and thousands of years alongside
(10:23):
certain plants in our environment, and that's potentially why we
can use certain plant medicines like cannabinoids and other botanical
medicines that they work with in our own bodies, because
our bodies kind of adapted and kind of evolved with
these plants with similar, similar chemicals. So it's really interesting.
Speaker 6 (10:41):
Wow, what do you think it's going to take for
the medical community as a whole to embrace cannabis.
Speaker 8 (10:49):
Finally, Well, I think there's lots of different things that
need to happen. I do a lot of volunteer nonprofit
work on that side of things. So I sit on
about ten different committees. Some of them are drug policy
committees for government groups, some of them were just physician
support groups, nonprofit groups. And I think it's a mix
of education for doctors, education for the public. You know,
(11:12):
research we need. We definitely need more research. I'm all
about more research, but just because we don't have you know,
these huge clinical trials. Yet I don't think that means
we should not use cannabis medicines for another ten years,
because what's everyone going to do in the meantime these
children with epilepsy and chronic people of chronic pain. And
so I think it's research, it's education, and then we
(11:34):
have to have law and legislation changes because you know,
if it's not supported on the legal side, then also
things don't change. It just comes around in this like
ivory cycle of research, research, research, and it doesn't get
fed back into the system.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Doctor.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
When when was the time that you that you decided,
wait a minute, this is this is really happening. I
really need to investigate it myself. I need to figure
out when was it for you? What was your oh
wow moment? You know, maybe share that with some of
our listeners because a lot of I think a lot
of people were waiting for that oh wow moment in
their own life to cross over. So if you can
(12:11):
share that with this, that'd be great.
Speaker 8 (12:13):
Yeah. So I think part of it was gradual because,
like I said, I've always been interested in plant mess
and I'm trained in plant medicine as well as normal
you know, conventional medicine. But I think the real turning
point for me was in twenty fifteen when I had
my accident and I had two partially successful surgeries.
Speaker 9 (12:29):
On my hand.
Speaker 8 (12:31):
I still, you know, cannabis hasn't cured my anatomical hand problem.
Speaker 9 (12:34):
I still have no ligaments left in this risk.
Speaker 8 (12:36):
But basically, if I got hit by a motorcycle, grew
through the air in a superman position and shattered my wrist,
so yeah, that was that.
Speaker 9 (12:45):
Was not ideal.
Speaker 8 (12:47):
And I was told by surgeres on multiple continents. I
saw the top people in I saw the top person
in Singapore where I originally had the injury, in Asia
when I was traveling. Then I saw the top person
in Canada and the top person the UK, and they
all kind of said, yeah, you're gonna have to take
pay medicine for the rest of your life.
Speaker 9 (13:04):
This is never going to get better.
Speaker 8 (13:07):
And I had a really bad nerve pain, I had
nerve damage, and in the end, I just didn't want
to take any of that stuff because I'd seen what
I had done to my patients. And I ended up
trying topical cannabis at my medical conference, at my intercrim
medicine conference, and a colleague who was already researching it
at the time, said, you know, you should go get
a sample from those guys because it's legal here. And
I just started using it topically for a week. And
(13:28):
my patients had been telling me this for years, of course,
So I got back to Canada. I had to leave
it in California because I couldn't take over of the border,
and well, I was sure if I could, so I didn't.
Speaker 7 (13:41):
This is just cream, yeah exactly.
Speaker 8 (13:45):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 9 (13:45):
I got back to Canada and that was the turning point.
Speaker 8 (13:47):
That's when I was like, okay, right, I'm already I
was already coaching my patients who are using cannabis and
growing it to try to get higher CBD or you know,
more THHC and try to help them and coach them.
But it was more from a harm reduction capacity. And
that's when I made the shift and joined a clinic
who was prescribing cannabis, and I started prescribing it as
part of my integrated medicine practice basically, and my patients,
(14:09):
of course were like, duh, We've been telling you this.
Speaker 6 (14:12):
For years, so you so you problems are legal hurdles,
you had to you had to worry about when you
were going to be uh, you know, telling people to
use it.
Speaker 8 (14:23):
That's you know, it's one of it's the fear I
think that's instilled into us as physicians, and I have
quite an academic background. I'm also a published researcher, so
I think it was the fear more than the actual
legal action. And my husband, who's who helps me run
my practice, and he's not a doctor, he's more on
like the business tech side, he was just like, you
just got to go for it.
Speaker 9 (14:43):
This is what you believe in. This is going to
help your patients.
Speaker 8 (14:47):
There's no there's nothing they can do to you legally
as long as you're practicing good medicine, which I was.
So I really went about it in a very systematic way.
I only took referred patients from other doctors, my letters
back to the doctor who referred them. We're you know,
nine pages long kind of things, so I probably probably
went over the top, and nothing that ever happened to me.
(15:08):
I've never been reported to the college. I've never had
any black marks against my record professionally, but there's a
lot of fear mongering that that's going to happen to doctors.
Speaker 9 (15:19):
And when I now, I I volunteer a lot of
my tend to.
Speaker 8 (15:21):
Mentors colleagues who is starting and they're petrified of getting
their license taken away.
Speaker 9 (15:27):
And you know, people have to.
Speaker 8 (15:29):
Remember, like we trained for fifteen years and to have
the potential that your.
Speaker 9 (15:35):
Whole career can be taken away.
Speaker 8 (15:36):
And most doctors going to medicine because they just want
to help people, and then you just can't help your
patients at all.
Speaker 9 (15:41):
That's like really scary.
Speaker 8 (15:42):
So I think most of it, as you know, as
a lawyer, both of you guys are lawyers. There's not
a lot they can do legally as long as you're
practicing good medicine. And that's really my message to doctors who.
Speaker 9 (15:55):
Are starting, like, look we can which I.
Speaker 8 (15:57):
Can give you information, I could give you advice.
Speaker 9 (15:59):
On how to practice, so you're not in any kind
of legals. Five mars.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Well, guys, it's Cannabis talk one on one. When we
come back, doctor Danny Gordon, you won't want to miss this.
We'll be right back. Welcome back, guys, Welcome back.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
So doctor, you know, I love where you're going with this,
and so you know I'm listening to your story about
how it actually feels like it's you know, actually helped
you personally, this plant, you know, with your own pains
and the things that you've been the.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Key part to a life right, Once you get a
personal touch to something, you're like, oh, I believe in
this now well.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
And again again doctor for you saying it.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
You know, I I love it because you know, a
lot of doctors will never prescribe it. I think, you know,
until it's and just tell it's federally legal and tell
it's forced on them, you know. And then you have
the the you know, the people like yourself that have
actually experienced something. And one key thing that resonated well
with me is that you've had patients, you know, tell you, hey,
(17:07):
this helps me, and you're going, you know, probably tell
them just the outset like you're probably just at the.
Speaker 7 (17:13):
Beginning too, going I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
And now you're like, hey, let me tell you about
something that's crazy and something that you touched on. As
we're talking to doctor Danny Gordon. You can see your
website at doctor Danny Gordon dot com and that's d
R D A N I G O R d O
N and you speak internationally about CBD and cannabis at conferences,
trade shows, and you've been featured in The Sunday Times,
(17:36):
The Guardian, Forbes, BBC Television and Radio, Fast Company, Vogue,
The Telegraph and many more publications. And you've been talking
about research and you mentioned it earlier on the show
as you're a part of a lot of research. Blue
and I have been on the research side since Jump Street,
Mark and Craig Garmore just use cannabis however you can
(17:58):
smoke it do this. I've always been I want to
see the research and this is what I'm asking you.
When do you think you'll see something like this happen,
which is if you take or better yet, if I'll
use myself as an anecdotal person, if I take four advils,
I know my pain level goes down. When are we
going to see something or is there research being looked
(18:18):
at going If you take a two to one CBD,
if you eat this money grams of edibles and your
two hundred and fifty pounds or more, this should help
for that type of pain. Is that type of research
being structured and looked at right now?
Speaker 8 (18:32):
Absolutely? And it's really complex because basically what you have
in conventional medicine is you have the conventional drug way
of drug funnel basically, so most drugs have a single
active ingredient and it's easy to put those in studies
because you're just looking at one active ingredient.
Speaker 9 (18:50):
But herbal cannabis, of course, has hundreds of active ingredients.
Speaker 8 (18:54):
So it's tricky. So there's a few different ways to
approach it. There's something called real world evidence or real
worlds data, and the FDA has actually released a whole
paper on it a few years ago. So you know,
that's really good news because this is actually telling us
that their regulatory bodies are interested in expanding what they
(19:15):
consider good research or acceptable research. So what it actually
means in English is they're starting to accept things like
patient re self report data.
Speaker 9 (19:24):
So patients are saying, I'm going to check.
Speaker 8 (19:27):
Do this question air online of how my pain is
improving with my cannabis, and this is the strain I'm using,
and this is the CBD THHC ratio, and all my
data is getting tracked a.
Speaker 9 (19:40):
Lot of people tracking that data.
Speaker 8 (19:42):
Of course they are private companies, which there's nothing wrong
with that, but of course it has to come from
academia as well, because that's a trusted standard and it's
unbiased and this kind of thing, so it is starting
in academia as well.
Speaker 9 (19:54):
So there's two sides of the research.
Speaker 8 (19:55):
There's the herbal cannabis which has to use real world data,
so it has to look at how people are responding
to the therapy, because trying to isolate what of the
hundred compounds from this particular strain is completely almost scientifically impossible.
Speaker 9 (20:11):
And then you have the other side of it.
Speaker 8 (20:12):
Where scientists and research are separating the cannabinoids out like
CBD and THC what we saw with epidialects, the drug
that was approved by the FDA for epilepsy, and then
you can isolate each compound and study how that specifically works.
And people always say, well, what do you prefer? Oh,
(20:33):
I say, well, of course, both because real world data
helps us help patients now and the single kind of
isolated compounds from the cannabis plant also help us understand
from a more longer term perspective and help eventually make
more drugs available for people that are a bit more
natural than sometimes what has already been prescribed to them.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
So real world data would be the same as anecdotal.
Speaker 8 (21:01):
It's a good question. So anecdotal data is at the
bottom of what's called the evidence pyramids, so it's the
worst kind of real world data. So a real world
data is this huge thing. It can be observational data,
it can be huge data sets from people who are
of a similar background, in a similar kind of age group,
(21:21):
and they have the same medical problem, they're using the
same strain. So there's all kinds of ways of collecting
real world data, and some are better than others.
Speaker 5 (21:30):
Is that Project twenty twenty one.
Speaker 8 (21:35):
Yes, I'm an advisor to Project twenty twenty one and
I sit on a Professor Davidnuts Committee for Drug Science.
Speaker 9 (21:42):
So that is the biggest We aim for it to
be the biggest real.
Speaker 8 (21:45):
World data collection and it's going to be taking place
in the UK. It's already started the first small sets,
so we hope that that will make quite an impact.
And then there's other people from Professor Nuts group who
are working on other data, cost effectiveness data, which is
really important to get governments to adopt this in a
public health system.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
Let me ask you this, and I not to labored
the anecdotal evidence because we use that quite a bit,
and I want to make sure we're using it in
the proper context. When I'm reading your bio and I'm
reading about Project twenty twenty one. It basically is a
registry that aims to enroll twenty thousand patients by the
end of twenty twenty one and create the largest body
of evidence for the effectiveness and tolerability of medical cannabis.
(22:29):
So is that not patients going into a registry and
saying I did this, I did that, I'm better now?
Speaker 8 (22:36):
Is yes, in a controlled way? So those are patients
who have seen a specialist doctor here in the UK,
many of who I've mentored and trained actually, because it's
quite new here steal for medical cannabis specifically, and they've
had what's called the called invalidated questionnaire tools. So basically
(22:56):
it's a really specific way of asking people questions about
how they're responding to a therapy. So it's been done
in a medical clinic context, and it's been collected in
a really rigorous fashion and really kind of controlled specific way,
and that makes the data more valuable because we can
know more that know more about the data's trustworthiness, so
(23:20):
to speak. So yeah, that is really the goal of
the project and hopefully we will be able to meet
those numbers.
Speaker 5 (23:29):
As opposed to as opposed to I took cannabis, I
feel better, Right, that's anecdotal. I'm guessing that's that's why
that that's why it's not controlled. You don't have your
your your your questionneers that have been you know at length,
you know, come up with and put in different category.
Speaker 7 (23:46):
Doctor Danny.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
At the beginning of your book, you actually used the
word you had a lot of patients give you anecdotal evidence.
Speaker 7 (23:52):
And I've seen that word. I almost called you when
I was reading the book, going dude.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
She used anecdotal evidence in her book, So, well, that's
probably are it's starting.
Speaker 9 (24:01):
You know, you have to remember it. So you have
to start somewhere.
Speaker 8 (24:03):
Every breakthrough in medicine over thousands of years has started
with a case report, someone saying this worked for me,
and then you say, well, why why did it work?
Is it going to work for the next person? The
same way, and you just kind of work your way
back and back and back. But you have to start somewhere.
Speaker 6 (24:21):
I got a question about smoking cannabis because we've seen.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
Study that it's harmful for your lungs.
Speaker 6 (24:28):
There's studies that it's good for your lungs.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
What's what's comment on that and your take on that?
Speaker 8 (24:34):
So the evidence is what we call conflicted, which means
we don't really know, which is of course something we're
not sure.
Speaker 9 (24:42):
We just don't. We just don't say that we know.
Speaker 8 (24:44):
But yeah, so basically what I tell my patients is
when you burn any plant material, it's generally not so
great for the lungs because it creates you know, burned material,
it creates inflammatory compounds, that kind of thing. But cannabis
is a plant, of course, I'll so has a lot
of anti inflammatory compounds too, So that's why we think
we don't see the same.
Speaker 9 (25:06):
Rates of lung cancer and.
Speaker 8 (25:08):
Lung disease that we see with cigarette smoking that we
do with with you know, smoking cannabis. But for medical
and wellness purposes then of course I always recommend people
use a vaporizer and use the lowest temperature setting that
they can find helps them. Now, of course some people
find that the higher temperature settings, because you get different
(25:28):
cannabinoid kind of vaporising off at different temperatures, might be
more effective for their pain. But I always have them
to start at a lower temperature and then work their
way up for harm reduction type stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
You know, in your professional opinion, what do you think
the best way to to ingest it is or to
take in cannabis? I mean, is it going to be smoking,
is it going to be that you know, the tinctures
or you know, what do you what do you think
the future of it looks like.
Speaker 8 (25:56):
Again, for the medical side and the wellness side, certainly
there's avariety of ways to take it depending on what
effect you want to have. So for someone who has
a chronic condition that they need constant relief and they
might have been on opioid painkillers before, I want them
on a low level of like a long acting formula.
So that could be something like a tincture they take
(26:17):
by mouth. That could be a patch that's transdermal through
the skin, which is kind of a newer technology that's
coming out now, but it's pretty new Stoll. That could
be some of these high tech formulations that come in
a pill form that are kind of tecked up to
release the kannabinoids more slowly into a bloodstream. And then
after that, when people have pain crises or they have
(26:38):
muscle spasm and they need immediate relief. Then the inhaled way.
Speaker 9 (26:43):
Is really effective because it's on set. It's like five minutes.
Speaker 8 (26:46):
So you inhale the cannabis five minutes later, usually you
will have an effect. So usually I say baseline of
long acting just like most drugs actually for pain control
and then for rescue.
Speaker 9 (26:59):
There inhales is very effective.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
So so many patients. You've seen thousands of them. And
now I want to sit in doctor Danny Gordon's office
and say your patient is Joke Rende And I've had
two hip surgeries.
Speaker 7 (27:12):
I have a bad ankle, doctor Gordon.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
And when I say I have a bad ankle I've
been scheduled for surgery on it because I cracked it
in eighth grade. It's been ongoing. I now have arthritis
and my hips. I've been currently using CBD on a
daily basis and cream. My pain level went from I
would say that it's worse about an eight to a
consistent three to four.
Speaker 7 (27:31):
You know.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
And I live and I walk, and I buckle sometimes
when I'm walking, I have a legal handicapped sticker, and
I'm just wondering, you know, being an old athlete, you know,
forty eight and I played football, rugby, about every sport
you can imagine wrestling growing up. Is there anything else
that I should be consuming besides the daily use of CBD?
Speaker 7 (27:50):
And is there a.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Special CBD that I should be using a different ratio
because I'm using pretty much, you know, point zero three
on the THIGHTC side, and I'm using the cream that
does have THC. So that's kind of my proto call.
I'm wondering if I can get a consult back.
Speaker 5 (28:07):
Now wait, wait, you forgot about the worst problem you have.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Having you next to me, I was gonna say the
thing that's wrong with your brain doctor?
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Before you answer that doctor did ask them? Please ask
them for his cope.
Speaker 7 (28:24):
It doesn't work in London.
Speaker 8 (28:27):
Medical advice on social media, as I have to say
many times. But if you were my patient and you
came to me, this is a really typical pain consultation
that I would receive. So it really depends on quite
a few factors. The first one is more from a
legal perspective.
Speaker 9 (28:42):
Do you have to do a.
Speaker 8 (28:44):
Safety sense of his job during the day, Because if
answer is yes, then the THC being.
Speaker 9 (28:49):
Kept really low is probably important for most people.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
Maybe I should add a couple more things, Doctor Danny.
I've also been sober twenty two plus years, so I've
been kind of negligent on you know, coming anything with
a higher level. I should have put that in my
consultation as well, and I had the two surgeries.
Speaker 7 (29:06):
Yeah, so that's why i've been you know.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
But but I'm not opposed to doing it from a
medical standpoint. If it's going to help with my inflammation
as it gets worse, sometimes I don't want it gets colder, exactly.
I'm not opposed it for the medical standpoint. I'm just
I'm not but I am for myself opposed to just
use it to feel.
Speaker 7 (29:27):
Better during the day or at night.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
I don't want to just feel better at night and
smoke a joint or something, you know. I mean, I
want to feel better because I use it for medicine.
I use it for pain relief. So I should have
elaborated I did, right.
Speaker 8 (29:40):
That's it's a great and that's actually a part of.
Speaker 9 (29:43):
Our intake form.
Speaker 8 (29:45):
So by the Canadian practice that I was a part of,
that's part of our intake is risk of cannabis addiction,
past history of other you know, substance use or misuse,
because it helps us kind of counsel the patient sitting
in front of us. So if I have someone who
has been sober and they've had a past history with
(30:06):
any substance, especially if it was cannabis, but it could
be alcohol, it could.
Speaker 9 (30:10):
Be cocaine, whatever it was.
Speaker 8 (30:13):
Yeah, okay, so we call it polysubstance. So you know,
in a harm reduction capacity, we would want to start
with exactly what you're currently doing with that kind of
hemp level of high CBD, really low THFC. Now it
gets trickier because people are not too dimensional. So if
(30:33):
I have a patient I've had this before in my
clinic that comes to me and they already have to
take prescription opioids and they've had a history of struggling
with substances, I want to get them off the opioids
right at least want to be able to slowly reduce
them down. And that's when we usually talk about how
bad is their pain, and oftentimes they're often medicating with
(30:56):
substances like alcohol to help their pain and to help
them get to sleep because they're in pay all the
time and it can't sleep.
Speaker 9 (31:01):
So it's this whole matrix that gets quite tricky.
Speaker 8 (31:04):
And we have to sit down and we have to
say what's the least harmful thing to do here? And
sometimes we do use medical cannabis with THHC higher amounts,
but I always buffer it with a lot of CBB,
so the ratio is still quite high, and I.
Speaker 9 (31:18):
Usually tell people please don't smoke it, and usually.
Speaker 8 (31:21):
Not inhaled if there's a past history of misuse or
a really strong family history of addiction, because some people's
brains are wired for that dopamine, that that feel good
reward chemical from any chemical, including cannabis, so that is
a factor we need better paying control, especially if they're
having to self medicate with alcohol or.
Speaker 9 (31:45):
Strong sleeping pills or opioids.
Speaker 8 (31:48):
Then we start by keeping this CBD really high because
we think that actually buffers the risk of addiction in
the preliminary research, which is super cool. And then we
add usually in the night time before they go to
a baseline of a long acting one to one, so
half CBD half THHC oil or tincture that's going to
(32:09):
be slow release, so they don't get the same reward
to the brain, but they're getting that baseline pain relief
that the THHD can bring.
Speaker 9 (32:18):
So that's usually my approach, and you know.
Speaker 8 (32:20):
Oftentimes I'm working with a psychiatrist who's involved or a
psychologist who's involved in their care.
Speaker 9 (32:25):
So it's really this multi dimensional team approach.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Well Blue my psychiatrist semi therapist. So do you think
a one to one would work good for doctor Daniel?
Speaker 3 (32:33):
You know, I think I think the reality behind it
is is that I think it can help, you know,
even for people that have addiction personality, as long as
they understand what they're going into, you know, and don't
turn it into a slippery slope, because again you can
go get one day, no quick fix, and that's what
want the quick fix, right and and what and what
she is prescribing though is something far from that quick exactly.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
It's it really shows how because we've been told by
other experts in the past that you know, that's a
concert effect with the CBD and the THC and the
THCA and all the different sub CBDs and THCs and
that really so this really shows by the you know,
taking a tinsture that slow release, so over the course
(33:20):
of the evening or however long, it's you know, it's
starting to work, not taking that hit and go oh
and then that could trigger your addiction and it could
be a gateway back into the crack.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
Oh yeah, I would, yeah, exactly, And I don't think
that cannabis is the quote unquote gateway. But I just
know for me personally, I like taking my advice was
correct me if I'm wrong, doctor Danny. What I really
heard from that is taking a one to one at
night is probably the best hinkster. Tinkster is that I
just WASO hoping one to one. I just get one
one and it's.
Speaker 7 (33:51):
All party together, go home with one in one person.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
I don't care who it is, but oh one, sorry
that we have to have fun still, right?
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (34:00):
But doctor Danny, correct me if I'm wrong. From everything
you said, that was very great to hear. I took
from it trying what I'm doing now during the day,
but a one to one at night before I go
to bed.
Speaker 8 (34:13):
Yeah, And I would say just do it under medical supervision,
because if that's the history, you want someone being able
to monitor from an objective point of view. So when
I prescribe for patients with that kind of history, I'm
monitoring them really closely. What's going on, what's going on
with their cravings? Tomorrow to other people involved. They usually
(34:35):
I always have to usually have a psychiatrist assess them
as well, so I'm really careful because of course everyone
has a different threshold. I have colleagues who are a
little bit more cavalier, but they have had the occasional not.
Speaker 9 (34:51):
So good outcome.
Speaker 8 (34:53):
It's not common. But I am much more conservative, I think.
But I've never had someone and get addicted to the
medical cannabis I've prescribed for them. So everyone has their
own way of practicing, but that's my way to be
very cautious. Keep the CBD really high. So even if
you add THC, still really keep the CBD really high
(35:15):
dose because it seems to buffer that kind of addictive response.
Speaker 7 (35:19):
You know.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
One of the things that I was always you know,
telling Joe's I think he should if he does do
it's just microdose, you know, come in very very very slow,
very very slow, very very slight.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
I like to think at night because it makes sense
if I still stay high on the CBD all day
like I do, and then I just take it at night,
which will help me go to bed, because I have
a hard time going to sleep at night as well, right,
So that would be I think that's that's a great
advice actually, but I think again.
Speaker 5 (35:43):
But I think the point is though that the slow
release is not necessarily going to help you sleep. I
may be wrong, but you're getting the you're getting the
medicinal value of the THC. That's not getting you high.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Right, there's exactly you know. I'd be very.
Speaker 8 (35:58):
Kenny Bow actually because PHC can be more sus sensitive
for many people, but some people it's the strain effect
as well. So for example, if you end up trying
the strategy and you try a one to one from
a certain strain and you feel wired, it light the
terpene profile, it might be the other cannabinoids in there,
because you don't know everything yet. So I've had that
(36:21):
happen to patience. So I always tell them to listen,
this should be calling. But you feel wired, you need
to come back and tell me because you need.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
This was the strain right.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Well, guys, it's Cannabis Talk one on one. We're talking
to doctor Danny Gordon, the world famous doctor Danny Gordon,
and we'll be right back after this break.
Speaker 5 (36:47):
Welcome back to Cannabis Talk one to one here with
Joe Grande, Blue Me and my brother the Pop Brothers
at Law and doctor Danny Gordon with a great interview
so far. She's author of the of the CBD Bible,
the CBD Bible, and we're hearing from what we're hearing
(37:09):
from her, she has every right to write the CBD vibe.
Speaker 7 (37:13):
I mean, she speaks truth.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
Not only that she was the youngest doctor to become
the American Board Certified and Integrated and Holistic Medicine, she
joins cannabis from anecdotal evidence. And because of this anecdotal evidence,
right now, I'm about to point out to you, doctor Danny.
You heard me just say, Mark, bring us back in.
But Mark's already smoked three joints during this interview when
(37:35):
we're doing this, do you think this anecdotal evidence prove
Hold on, Mark, don't make me turn you off.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Don't make me turn you off.
Speaker 7 (37:42):
Please.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
So I'm asking you, doctor Danny, do you think he's
either stupid deaf or because he smoked three joints, he
didn't cut her hand when I said Mark bring us
back that he normally.
Speaker 7 (37:55):
I'm talking to doctor Danney.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
Mark. Hey, Hey, hey, languageuage little brother. Language.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
Can I talk to doctor Danny and ask her a question.
So I'm asking you, doctor Danny, what you just witnessed?
Do you think that that was because you know what, Joe?
I want to let me ask doctor Danny this.
Speaker 7 (38:13):
I want to know the answer.
Speaker 5 (38:14):
How old were you when you started.
Speaker 8 (38:18):
When I started in medicine? I well, my first degree,
I started when I was seventeen.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Wow.
Speaker 8 (38:23):
And then I got into medical school when I was
funny to turning twenty one, So I started pretty early.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
How did you get involved in becoming a doctor so young?
Where did this drive come from?
Speaker 9 (38:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 8 (38:34):
I was a weird kid. I was always really driven. Yeah,
I was. I was that weird, nerdy kid.
Speaker 7 (38:40):
You know.
Speaker 5 (38:40):
I want to ask you so awesome though, before before
we get to the high five, I want to ask
you a question for myself and a lot of our listeners.
If I want to get CBD, you know, HEMP derived CBD,
what you can get anywhere, everywhere, all over the world,
how do I look to see if it's good or
(39:01):
if it's if it's snake oil, if it's you know,
there's no real best practices.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
I don't it ever works for me?
Speaker 5 (39:07):
So how how do you know you're getting something that's
you know, that's decent or good or or is there
top shelf.
Speaker 9 (39:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 8 (39:15):
I always tell people, and I talk about this a
lot in the book, because it is a question that's
so important. It's it's a tricky one because you know,
there's a lot of brands that do things really well,
but there's a lot of brands that don't. So the
safest thing to do is look for what's called the
CooA from a product or certificate of analysis, which means
that that product has been tested by a third party,
(39:37):
independent scientific laboratory to say, hey, yes, it has this
much CBD in it, just like we said it did,
and it doesn't have any of this other stuff that
we said it didn't have in it, like heavy metals
or high THC. If you're looking for a hand product,
for example, and just use a reputable brand and look
for those things.
Speaker 5 (39:57):
One more question, how did the No. I don't know
if it affects you where you're over where you are,
but the DEA changed the rules on hamp here in
calif in the United States. Have you heard about that?
Speaker 8 (40:12):
I don't. I can't say I know much about that
at the moment. No, because it's different over here. And
different in Canada as well.
Speaker 5 (40:18):
They're counting the I think it's the the I forget
about the mark. Do you know what the Delta eight. Yeah,
they're counting.
Speaker 8 (40:28):
They're counting down to eight now as as an illegal class.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
One correct rights, which actually gets fear over.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
A lot of the point zero three is where the
Delta eight wasn't counted. Point three, big brother, point point three.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah, Delta eight is huge right now.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
I mean in smoke shops, it's everywhere, and it's getting
people completely high.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
And I'm sure there's a lot of medical Delta eight.
Speaker 5 (40:50):
No, Delta eight doesn't get your high, doesn't.
Speaker 8 (40:53):
Delta is mildless, more psychoap well, psycho memetic, which is
a really scientific, fancy word of it can make you
feel high, but of course that's really subjective, and it's
it's less strong than Delton nine.
Speaker 7 (41:08):
Delta is the.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
One that's going, yeah everywhere.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
Yeah, you're right, it's actually Delta nine that they're showing
it everywhere.
Speaker 2 (41:15):
Now.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Yeah, Delta nine is now being sold all throughout like
smoke shops everywhere here locally, you take it.
Speaker 8 (41:23):
Delta nine is I'm sorry, Delta A is the metabolite
of THHC. That is now it sounds like the DA
is taking issue with that's more mildly psycho mimetic, psychoactive. Well,
they're all psychoactives, psychomometic. But it's yeah, I mean, it's
who knows what's going to happen with this legislation. I
(41:44):
mean in Europe right now they're talking about making CBD
classes are narcotic again, which is completely insane, insane.
Speaker 5 (41:52):
It's all over the world.
Speaker 4 (41:53):
It's insane, and it just helps everybody out. We're talking
to doctor Danny Gordon, her book, The CBD Bible. I'm
just curious, doctor or Danny Gordon. As you're in London,
you grew up in Germany.
Speaker 7 (42:03):
All the studies that we've.
Speaker 4 (42:04):
Been seeing coming out lived in Canada.
Speaker 7 (42:07):
Oh you live in Canada. Now, my bad, I thought
you she grew up in Canada. Sorry, grew up in Canada.
Speaker 8 (42:12):
I actually up in the US, but I'm from Canada.
My medical practice is there. I have a transplant.
Speaker 9 (42:18):
But yes, okay.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
So my question is, though, all this research that's been
going on in Israel, and all the research that you've
done for the CBD Bible, how do you utilize and
look at all that stuff, because from our standpoint, I
would say everybody on our team is amazed by what
Israel is doing and how they are, in our opinion,
the forefront of what research is. But yet, of course
(42:40):
in America and I don't know what they do there
in London or Europe for that matter, do they take
Israel's research into consideration and what is your thoughts on it?
Speaker 8 (42:49):
A great question. There's so much great research coming out
of Israel, and the nice thing about what we're seeing
there is they're allowing a lot of these clinical teaching
hospitals to become involved so you have access to patients.
Speaker 9 (43:01):
So it's really a partnership.
Speaker 8 (43:02):
Between industry who are making the products, and the academic
groups and in the hospital, so they're getting a lot
of clinical data which is so valuable.
Speaker 9 (43:11):
So I yes, I value that so much. Now in
the UK, what.
Speaker 8 (43:16):
We're seeing legislatively, on the legal side and on the
government side is there's a bit of an obsession around
UK data.
Speaker 9 (43:25):
So if the study is done in Germany or said
in Israel, then they they don't take as much into consideration.
Speaker 8 (43:31):
With some of these uh, these government bodies that are
you know, trying to we're trying to get them to regulate,
you know, to allow it as a medicine and prescribed
on the public system for example. So my answer is
any good research should be considered no matter what country
is doing it, but some jurisdictions.
Speaker 9 (43:53):
Prefer their own, uh studies from their own area.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
First, well, guys, it's cannabis talk going on, and it's
I'm for the High five.
Speaker 7 (44:03):
Yes it is.
Speaker 4 (44:03):
And I got to tell you, doctor Danny Gordon, everything
you've been saying has been so interesting, and knowing that
you're the youngest doctor to do that, I like how
you called yourself a nerd.
Speaker 7 (44:12):
Like that. I think that's cool.
Speaker 4 (44:13):
I think it's inspiring for a lot of people out there,
let alone young ladies, to go out there and learn
as much as you can and you know, get some
more research because you know, I think the research is
the key. Once we have that research, that's what's going
to change it all for us. And now it's time
for the High five with doctor Danny. Question number one,
how old are you? How old were you the first
(44:33):
time you smoked weed? And where'd you get it from?
Speaker 9 (44:37):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (44:37):
I knew I was going to give this question out
here the first time. Excuse me.
Speaker 9 (44:41):
The first time I smoked weed, I was, let me think,
I have to really think about this.
Speaker 8 (44:47):
Twenty two, twenty two and this. I know it's shocking,
but you got to remember. I grew up in the
States in the War on Drugs era, so I was
petrified of cannabis.
Speaker 9 (45:00):
And all my friends smoked cannabis in high school. I
was one of the only ones, but I was nurse
my brain.
Speaker 5 (45:06):
Where'd you grow up in California?
Speaker 8 (45:08):
I know I grew up in South Carolina.
Speaker 5 (45:10):
We're all missed that.
Speaker 7 (45:13):
We don't know where she's from.
Speaker 5 (45:14):
California, look like a California girl. And where'd you get
it from?
Speaker 8 (45:20):
I got it from? Well, I don't know. If I
said I got it from a friend. I'm not going
to out her a friend who She was just like,
I can't believe.
Speaker 9 (45:30):
You've never tried cannabis. Is ridiculous.
Speaker 8 (45:32):
So she's like, come over, and I willed to join,
and we're going to watch Sex and the City and
so we did, and of course I just laughed the
whole time, and I thought it was great. But it's funny.
I never really I didn't do it again for years.
I just not really into recreational cannabis. It was fun
and I could understand.
Speaker 9 (45:50):
How people liked it.
Speaker 8 (45:51):
We ate some chips, like it was very stereotypical, we
ate potato chips.
Speaker 5 (45:55):
And get to that next.
Speaker 8 (46:00):
And the reason she was using it actually is because
she had an autoimmune condition and she was finding he
was helping her inflammation. And this is before we really
knew any of that stuff.
Speaker 9 (46:08):
She was just like, I really find it helps, Like
I think it helps my jointst.
Speaker 8 (46:12):
So, yeah, that was my first experienced smoking cannabis. And
you know, since then, it's honestly, I've only tried.
Speaker 9 (46:20):
I've only smoked K cannabis a few times. I can
almost say that. I know that sounds so boring.
Speaker 8 (46:25):
It's good for me, you know, I'm just not I'm
not drawn to TC as a substance necessarily, but I
have friends who just love it. They use it instead
of alcohol, and I think it has less harmful effects
on the brave of alcohol.
Speaker 7 (46:42):
Alcohol. And now he just smokes more.
Speaker 5 (46:44):
Question number two, When you do use cannabis, what's your
favorite way to do it?
Speaker 9 (46:51):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (46:51):
Sorry, when I do use cannabis, I would say, well,
I use CBD oil. What's my favorite it depends, I guess,
so topically, I actually like the step with CBD and
THHC for my hand, but I can't get it in
the UK, so when I'm in North America, I use
a topical with both. In the UK, I use HAMP
(47:13):
products because they're just legal here, and same with you know,
for stress, like I'm having a particularly heavy week, I
find a really good dose of CBD, even from HAMPS
is really helpful, and I use it before I start meditating,
so I have a meditation practice. It sounds very boring,
but that is basically how I use it. And as
(47:34):
far as other times I've used THHC, the few times
I have found it really helpful is when I've flown
across the pond over to North America to the States,
and I found when it's the jet legs situation, a
little bit of a THC edible is really really helpful
for me for jet like it just helped me fall asleep.
Speaker 9 (47:54):
So that's the other way I've used on the THHC
side before.
Speaker 3 (47:57):
Very good question number three of the high five I
have with doctor Danny Gordon, Craziest place you've ever used
or smoked cannabis?
Speaker 8 (48:08):
Well, I have to say about on the cannabis smoker,
so got used.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
It, used it or.
Speaker 8 (48:15):
Smoked it, used it or smoked it?
Speaker 2 (48:17):
Crazy place?
Speaker 8 (48:18):
I would say probably at the medical conference, because when
I got the sample of the ale in California, which
is legal, I was putting it on my hand as
I was, you know, at this really conventional medical conference
for a week, and I was telling everyone about it,
and yeah, I guess that's kind of crazy because I
was the only one using it.
Speaker 9 (48:38):
It kind of smelled pretty cannabisy.
Speaker 4 (48:40):
The only doctor there going, wait a minute, are you smoking?
Speaker 6 (48:46):
Doctor Danny Gordon, double board certified medical doctor. Question number
four of the Cannabis Talk one on one high five,
what is your go to munchies when you get on it?
Speaker 9 (48:59):
Oh?
Speaker 8 (48:59):
Well, my god, too much? He's In general, I would say,
rather than being high, because it's so few and far between,
I would have to say Ben and Jerry's vegan ice
cream with the brownie pieces.
Speaker 7 (49:13):
The brownie pieces, I love it. And now with the
monkeys exactly.
Speaker 4 (49:17):
I was just going to say, the pregnancy monch's got
you eating that more often than not nowadays.
Speaker 8 (49:21):
Exactly like every day.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Congratulations on that. The boy or girl it's a boy. Yeah,
are you naming them blue?
Speaker 8 (49:32):
We do have the name, but we're keeping it a
bit quiet because it's a bit of a hippie name,
so we don't want any like it from the family
until it's already too late.
Speaker 4 (49:42):
Awesome, Well, don't do a reveal party where you have
an electronic thing, because out here in California.
Speaker 5 (49:47):
That's the biggest fire ever.
Speaker 7 (49:48):
They had a that's going on right now. Huge. Did
you guys see that out there? This is awful from
a reveal party of the birth.
Speaker 3 (49:55):
Of the baby, and that's the big fire that's going on.
Speaker 4 (49:59):
They to reveal like a machine that when something went off,
Oh my goodness, fireworks.
Speaker 7 (50:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
Question number five with doctor Danny Gordon.
Speaker 4 (50:11):
If you could smoke weed with anyone dead or alive,
who would it be?
Speaker 7 (50:16):
And why?
Speaker 8 (50:18):
Oh man, this is a good one. Who am I
going to choose? Do they have to?
Speaker 9 (50:24):
Does the other person have to smoke weeder?
Speaker 5 (50:27):
Anybody whatever?
Speaker 7 (50:28):
They could be dead live, smoke whatever anybody live.
Speaker 8 (50:32):
I would love to smoke weed with Albert Einstein if
I had to choose, because I'm a huge science nerd
and you know, a lot of his discoveries supposedly were
potentially psychedelically induced, not probably with cannabis, but potentially with
Elsie or something else, which is another area of interest
for me, is psychedelic medicine.
Speaker 9 (50:51):
So that would be my choice.
Speaker 4 (50:53):
Nice, you know, And I got another question going back
to just you know, your book and all the research
that you've done. Because your book, for those who are interested,
you can go out and check out our book called
the CBD Bible, and you can find it on Amazon
or wherever you get your book set. But once again,
the CBD Bible, in your research in stuff that you've done,
have you noticed anybody that over consumes cannabis and it
(51:16):
doesn't affect them the same way?
Speaker 8 (51:19):
Definitely, Some people just have different thresholds. So some person
can say the same amount of grams per day and
be intoxicated or have potentially an unhealthy relationship with cannabis,
and then the next person can see the same amount
and feel that it makes them more normally.
Speaker 9 (51:35):
And a lot of times there's some really.
Speaker 8 (51:36):
Back chronic pain patients or patients who are potentially not
neurologically I say normal, but you know, yeah, what we've
considered medically normalized that feel more normal when they smoke cannabis.
Speaker 4 (51:49):
So if someone's doing five thousand milligrams a day to
go to bed, would that be something that they should
just consistently go higher on? Are something that is normal?
Speaker 8 (52:00):
I start with one milligram to one milligrams and in
older in like older adults like over the age of
sixty five, but two milligrams in.
Speaker 9 (52:11):
Adults, Well, I have.
Speaker 5 (52:14):
Someone doing all someone doing that high levels every day.
Is we've heard people talk about reset, reset your body.
Does it really help to like not smoke for three
four days and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 8 (52:27):
There there's there's wash up protocols which would take me
an hour to go into. But basically, the more you
smoke more consistently, it takes longer for your.
Speaker 9 (52:35):
Body to get rid of the THC.
Speaker 8 (52:38):
So if if you know, if I smoke THHC, can
I barely ever smoke it? It would just leave my
body a lot faster than someone who smokes it every day, which,
of course I always I get the occasional call over
here with someone who's flown to the to the United
Area of Emirates or something terrible, and they smoked cannabis
maybe at a party twenty days ago, and.
Speaker 9 (52:59):
They just got tested at the airport.
Speaker 8 (53:01):
It's still in their bloodstream and they're arrested.
Speaker 9 (53:02):
So it's so variable.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
They test you at the airport, if.
Speaker 8 (53:09):
You get taken aside, you can be tested in a
lot of.
Speaker 3 (53:14):
And if you have it in your system, I'm not
going there.
Speaker 2 (53:17):
What a second, you're arrested.
Speaker 5 (53:20):
That's an Arab country.
Speaker 9 (53:22):
That's in an air country, so there's different laws over there.
Speaker 8 (53:24):
So of course, wow, that little brother can't go anywhere.
Speaker 2 (53:30):
Ever.
Speaker 8 (53:31):
Yeah, I'm always counseling them on their travel and these
are the legal things we have to make our patients
aware of.
Speaker 4 (53:38):
As you point that out, and as you mentioned the RESET,
And I'm just wondering, Danny, when you've had any patients
that of research did the research on the reset? Has
there been any type of protocols that they have, any
type of you know, jonesing, relapsed feeling like, is there
some things that have happened withdrawals?
Speaker 7 (53:58):
Thank you, anything like that.
Speaker 8 (54:00):
Yeah, there is a cannabis withdrawal of syndrome. It usually
comes from THC and it's variable from person to person.
It usually doesn't last anywhere longer than fourteen days, usually
seven and light occasional users but it can make people
feel irritable, have more trouble sleeping. So yeah, it's part
of the discussion when I give someone medical cannabis that
(54:21):
that can happen because we actually remember just because it's natural.
I mean, belladonna is natural.
Speaker 9 (54:26):
There's lots of natural things that can kill you.
Speaker 8 (54:28):
So I think it's important to be really transparent, you know,
with people that this. Of course, there's going to be
potential downsides, especially when you start pushing to THC higher.
Speaker 7 (54:38):
Well Mark, I hoped that was beneficial to hear about
a friend of mine.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Well doctor, you know.
Speaker 3 (54:42):
I Before we get out of here, you know, first
of all, I want to thank you for being on
the show and sharing so much education and all the
research you've done and dealing with your patients, and congratulations
on your book.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
And obviously you're newborn. We're excited to hear.
Speaker 3 (54:58):
Soon to be Blue, you know, your new child, baby
baby Blue out of London. Is there anything else that
you'd like to you know, get out there to the
audience before we let you go here.
Speaker 9 (55:11):
Thanks we covering most of it, but just thank you
so much for having me.
Speaker 8 (55:14):
Guys.
Speaker 9 (55:14):
It was such a fun show.
Speaker 4 (55:16):
Absolutely and Helpe you spread the word out there in
London because we're very well listened to in the UK,
so we're looking for you to you know, branch us
out even more.
Speaker 9 (55:26):
Well.
Speaker 8 (55:27):
Actually, one of my friends has just launched a new
project that I am advising.
Speaker 9 (55:31):
On called can Cards, so I actually told her to
reach out to you.
Speaker 8 (55:34):
So she's basically working with the Police Commissioner with one
of our MP's every year with a few of US
doctors to help patients you have to criminalize themselves basically
to access cannabis.
Speaker 9 (55:45):
Illegally for a medical purpose to not be arrested.
Speaker 8 (55:48):
So yeah, I've told her we're going to spread the word.
Speaker 2 (55:51):
Nice, fantastic.
Speaker 5 (55:52):
You have a great rest of the day out there.
Speaker 2 (55:54):
Well, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 3 (55:55):
Night n you guys too, well, thank you for joining
us as Cannabis Talk one on one.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Remember this. If no one else loves you, we do.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
Thanks for listening to another podcast of Cannabis Talk one
oh one, the world's number one source for everything cannabis,
featuring doctor Danny Gordon, author of the CBD Bible,
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