April 1, 2024 • 45 mins
Travel back to early 2020 when Esperanza Spalding stopped by the studio to talk about the evolution of her artistry, the charms of Portland, Oregon, and some deeper discussions about spirituality.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
This is Sugar Steve from Questlove Supreme. It's April, which
is Jazz appreciation months, so we are running some selections
from the QLs archives from artists who make some jazz music.
This is a pre Pandemic twenty twenty conversation with Esperando Spaldi,
who has become one of the.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
New stars of jazz. In this interview, Esperanza.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Talks about the real Portland, Oregon, learning how to play
jazz at a high level, and the neurological benefits of
certain rhythms. This is a deep and cosmic hour long chat.
Enjoy yo yo yo yo yo yo ya.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
You're good at spontaneity, making it up.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Supremo, Sir, Suprema. Roll call, Suprema su su Supremo. Roll
call Supremo s Supremo. Role call, Suprema s Supremo.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Roll a Prodigy. Yeah, win to Berkeley. Yeah me Jack JB.
I'm talking to.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Supremo, Suprema.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Roll called, Suprema son something Supremo.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Roll call. My name is Sugar.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, I have a question about jazz. Yeah for double bass, Yeah,
you need double hands.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Supreme Supremo, roll cal Suprema Supremo roll.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I'm unpaid, Bill don't give no fucks.
Speaker 5 (01:31):
Yeah, by his book, Yeah, mixtape looks Suprema Supremo.
Speaker 6 (01:39):
Roll call Suprema, So Supremo roll.
Speaker 7 (01:44):
What's your name now?
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (01:45):
For a spell in your body? Yeah, I can make
it for you quick yeah, or.
Speaker 6 (01:54):
Supremo Supremo Roll Suprema Supremo.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to a weird episode of Court
Love Supreme.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
It is raining outside the bomb cyclone.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
All I can say was that Laia, Bill and I
left from the same destination, but I decided to violate
some traffic laws to get here in time because our
guest today has to be out with the quickness.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So Steve insisted that we do the theme without Bill
and Laia. Yeah yeah, he insisted. Why because they got
to learn right, that's absolutely cruel, or they can overdub
it later. No, we never.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
We never overdubbed the theme anyway. Ladies and gentlemen, this
is Couest Love Supreme. So we're joined by the exquisite,
the remarkable, the ever expansive, the gift that you already
introduced me.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, my fault.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
We already said Sugar Steve, the original, the inspiring, one
of the cool, prolific creatives and music today, and most importantly,
she's a native of one of my all time favorite
cities on Earth, Portland, Oregon. Yeah, ladies and gentlemen, please
give it up for.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
So are you doing.
Speaker 7 (03:21):
After all that? I'm good settling? Settling?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
You're settling?
Speaker 7 (03:25):
Yeah, And I reflect back for you to you everything
you just said about me. Yeah, I'm grateful.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
I'm bad with I'm learning to accept implements at a
new place in my life. I read the Gene Keys book.
I'm learning to accept. For years you've been telling you
to accept. It's hard to accept compliments.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I agree. Are you good or bad with compliments?
Speaker 7 (03:46):
I just let them roll and often bounce them back
to be real. Alsolet figure you can't perceive it if
you don't hold it.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
You know, I want you to hold the compliments. Yes,
hear all those things?
Speaker 7 (03:56):
Okay, I take that.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Can I sit closer to you?
Speaker 1 (03:59):
You sound prett great?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Based on his.
Speaker 7 (04:01):
Introduction, what's sitting closer going to do?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I don't know, yeah exactly.
Speaker 7 (04:06):
HR like some em and off.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Normally like I know my guests like the back of
my hand when they come to the show. But I
can't help but notice that in your bio and your
wiki bio, they had a factoid in there that kind
of took me back, which for me, like the idea
(04:31):
of Portland organ and the words gang activity never seemed
to mix.
Speaker 7 (04:38):
That's because it's the Portland of now you're trying to
translate it. Also if you come from like New York
or Baltimore or LA I think gang activity in Portland
is like a little paper cup that you get by
the cooler at the office, you know, su Price, Yeah,
But I.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Mean the way that we're trying to paint it was like,
you know, music was your salvation.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
There was gang activity in the neighborhood, and so am
I to believed that there's no differference between Portland, Oregon and.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
No, there's Portland is just like Compton.
Speaker 7 (05:04):
I mean, if you're growing up and sleeping in the
bathtub because there are guns outside and you've never been
to another city, it feels it feels imminent, it feels dangerous,
it feels scary. And that was the reality for a
few years growing up and in the Northeast while I
was raised. But you know, comparatively to some other cities.
I think we had it mild, but people were filing.
They were wiling.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Okay, but that's the thing.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
The fact that you had it it all shocks me
because people are genuinely jaw dropped when I tell them
that Portland organ is hands down my favorite city on Earth.
Speaker 7 (05:37):
Why is it your favorite city?
Speaker 4 (05:38):
More than half my record collection comes from there, So no, no, no,
I'm just saying, like.
Speaker 7 (05:44):
We do love music.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Well, the thing is, your record dealers really don't know
the value of certain things. So Portland is the place
that like Japanese record dealers fly to well to come
and buy records and then they sell them back to me.
Speaker 7 (05:58):
I'm in a thousand bucks, I do that's do advintage
clothing just for the record as well. No, no, yeah,
it's a trip. It's like everybody just figured it out.
But that reality that you're talking about was like our
secret because we were provincial. I mean, it's still kind
of you always knew about Ireland, like didn't know that
(06:21):
the world was really looking at Portland like that, you know, to.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Like beat makers and whatnot.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
I would lead them to Austin, which is my second
favorite city. But I sent them down south, far away
from my dodain of Portland, Oregon.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
So what was your childhood like? Did you grow up
in a musical family or No.
Speaker 7 (06:39):
I grew up with a single working mother and a
big brother, and I grew up just in a funky neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
It was.
Speaker 7 (06:47):
I didn't know that it was grimy, because that's all
that I had, But I know that we weren't allowed
to go outside because it felt dangerous, you know, after
the street lights came on, we had to stay in.
And I remember, I just remember wanted to always be
at the piano and always wanted to compose. And when
my mother took the dogs for a walk, I would
make her sing harmony with me. That's what I remember
(07:07):
my childhood. Kinds of freaking harmony. Yes, yes, nothing I
could hear. What age is that?
Speaker 8 (07:15):
Because I know you're a phenom in that way with
bus Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 7 (07:18):
It's I don't know if I'm a phenom. I've worked
a lot at stuff when I was a kid. But yeah,
very musical, I mean it, honestly, I don't remember they sang. Yeah.
She's from a generation where everybody could play piano, could
play piano and read piano music, you know, so for me,
it was just like anything that I heard on the
radio or on television and end credits I would go
(07:40):
find at the piano and that was the beginning of
my compositional journey.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Can you remember the first record that you purchased?
Speaker 7 (07:49):
Oh, it was M.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
You're Born in eighty four?
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Don't You Give Me No Tell a Little Bit of Love?
Speaker 7 (08:01):
It was probably Sorry to Let You Down. It was
probably Roomski Cours That's what it was though, and maybe
some Chibo Matto. I was really into Chibo Matto when
I was a kids. I probably bought an early Chipo
Mato record too.
Speaker 8 (08:19):
Well.
Speaker 7 (08:19):
I went to like a freaky arts high school, so
you know, we were in talls.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
You know, wait, how old were you when you brought
your first record?
Speaker 7 (08:25):
M Maybe twelve? That was how I could afford music
because they would be in the bins for fifty cents,
you know. So you go, you see the cool cover,
then you get to try it out and see if
you want it.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
You know, ninety four ninety five, this when you.
Speaker 7 (08:36):
Brought ninety six? Yeah something, thats okay? Yeah, what with
your first record?
Speaker 4 (08:43):
My first record is just actually nerdy. I did the
one thing please station. No, it's the worst, but I
have no shame in my game. You know, like when
especially seventies kids one, my parents didn't believe in babysitters.
Qualified Okay, I love it you No, it's not I'm
not doing the preference saying that my parents didn't babysitters.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
I wasn't allowed to talk to strangers, and.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
You know, I had I had an afro that rival
with yours as a five year old. So of course,
you know, like the whole primitive, exotic way old white
women come up and buy me stuff. I wasn't allowed
to ask for strangers for anything. And this woman comes
up to me. Your name is Ellie, and she's like something,
I say, records, so and then she got a napkin
(09:32):
and finn and she took my order down. And then
the next night came back with the Fisher Price record
player what and she gave me my first three records,
which was which.
Speaker 7 (09:45):
Have questions about that, right, like, just how that paints
your expectation on the world. Do you just expect to
ask some white ladies show up? But that's kind of
beaut I love that. I love that. I love that
in right, should be this White Lady?
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Did you talk like that? White Lady?
Speaker 5 (10:06):
Particularly child no contractions, just like I cannot do that?
Speaker 1 (10:10):
White Lady was the record she purchased me. I have
a shame.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
I don't know why I liked's Bad Blood. I don't
bad Blood? Uh one of these nice by the Eagles
song that subsequently scared me, the uh Rufus and Shaka
(10:39):
Khans dance with Me. I think I got Looking through
the Windows by the Jackson five and.
Speaker 9 (10:50):
It's all this, all this all explains quite a bit, actually,
And my fifth record was the Fifth Dimension version of
Love Hangover, which was out way before Diana Ross's version.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
What was the first one you physically bought? Not a
white lady bought for you.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
I got a good report card in the third grade,
so I my uncle gave me five For five bucks,
you could buy the Jackson's Destiny Ah track. She could
buy and Switches It Switches.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Oh you're right there with me.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Motherfuckers and Switches Switches debut album. Yeah, you could buy
a tracks for like to nineteen two thousand.
Speaker 7 (11:54):
Do you know what an a track is? I have
the Mad Hatter on a track for no reason, just
just to around it's okay.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, I mean, Esperanja is an old soul.
Speaker 7 (12:04):
She is anyway, I have memories that predate my birth.
I do. I'm holding them, Esperanza. Hi, I'm here.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
How old were you this show?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
All right?
Speaker 4 (12:24):
So how did you actually discover instruments? And what is
your instrument of choice? Because you do everything, You sing well,
you play bass well, you do piano, what like, what
is your I'm.
Speaker 7 (12:36):
Starting to think that the instrument is my life, you know,
those are the details. Yeah, no, I mean it's true.
I've been thinking a lot about just the potency of
word and sound anywhere that we are, and trying to
hold my existence, like my interfacing with people as the
instrumental exchange, because i know the power that sound has,
(12:57):
and I've been so focused on this, like I got shit.
I put the hours and like be able to do
the things, and recently I'm like, damn, but there's already
people who can do that. You know, there's already that
masterful bass player that's already taken it to the limit.
There's that massive vocalist who's taken it all the way.
Now I'm thinking about, like, what is the practice to
make every sound that I make and interaction that I
make like a beautiful performance in conversation.
Speaker 9 (13:21):
This actually reminds me of something I read and might
take Garci's book, Prince's ex Wife. She said that he
told her that to live every day like a work
of art. And that's what that sounds like.
Speaker 7 (13:30):
I am really a fan of that. Yeah, as a practice.
Speaker 8 (13:33):
Practice is sounds so free.
Speaker 7 (13:37):
I don't even comprehend right now.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Well, also this and I like to think I'm an
okay musician.
Speaker 7 (13:43):
You well, you're probably doing that. I'm just coming to
the consciousness of it. I think a lot of this.
Wayne short a quote when he talks about the premise
of this philosophy, this Buddhism Lily practices, and he said,
you know, with it, you get to create value out
of everything that's happening. And I think that's very much
what we do as improvisers when we're in a musical space,
like whatever the raw ingredients are in the studio with
the song sketch, you activate the creative powers to turn
(14:06):
that into a thing. So he talks about applying that
to everyday life, and he says, because if you're not
practicing that, what's practicing you?
Speaker 1 (14:15):
And that's of course, but that's.
Speaker 7 (14:19):
That's what we've been practicing as artists, right, We've been
practicing this creative capacity to take nothing or take fragments
and make something like that's the alchemy of making art.
So these days, just you ask, that's what I'm focused on.
That's the instrument that I want to study, practice and master.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
I gotta say that high five. When I first got
to know you, I guess you could say we known
each other at least over.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Ten years, right, Yeah, isn't that wild?
Speaker 4 (14:48):
By two thousand and seven, two eight, you're ten years ago,
you're very much Yeah, a little over ten years ago.
You're very much like the character weak bleek Gillia in
Mobile or Blues, because I remember that was Denzel's character.
Speaker 7 (15:07):
Is Mike Lee's moment I buy the same dress for
both my girlfriends?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yes, dress? Shut shut up?
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Anyway, No, my point was we changed numbers. I called
you and you're like, hey, I'm rehearsing right now, you know,
hit me back. And then I called like two hours later,
You're like, yeah, now I'm rehearsing. And by the seventh time,
I was like, she's She's like the only person I
(15:38):
knew that forhearse.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Longer than you was friends. No, no, what's his name?
Jazz asphone player?
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Who?
Speaker 1 (15:48):
David uh David Murray. David Murray told me.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
That he's just on an average he practices ten hours.
Speaker 7 (15:56):
That's madness. Yeah, I don't. But just quickly the plug
for an album with terryln Carrington Jerry Al David Murray.
That's an amazing album for the record, No bass because
Jerry An's playing all the bass. But anyway back to us, yes, yes,
the red dress.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
But yeah, I love my dress.
Speaker 7 (16:12):
Thank you guys. And I remember every time I will
call you, you were on a treadmill. Yeah that literally, I'm like, yeah,
I'm on the treadmill right now, and he still wants
to talk. He still breathing the whole.
Speaker 8 (16:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
At nighttime, I'm doing twelve twelve gigs. Okay, so gone
to your head? What is your favorite instrument?
Speaker 7 (16:37):
What she's like a questions like that. No, really, it's
my life, man, I'm telling you, like it's it's not
about the instrument right now. I obviously love the bass,
obviously I love the voice, but like truly, the practice
right now to me is like polishing the instrument of
(16:58):
my humanity because everything emerges from there.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
So there's a fire in your house right now, what
do you say? I might get an answered at least
an instrument.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Yeah, fire in your house to your head.
Speaker 8 (17:11):
It's a really violent Sorry about all of a sudden,
come to question, super Yeah, Can I just ask you
a question about the way you grew up? Because I
read something interesting about how you had to be homeschool
because of something that you went through physically as a kid,
And as you were talking about rehearsing, I was like, well,
I wonder if if some of your rehearsing, uh, it
comes from the fact that you were at home a
(17:32):
lot and you have to practice a lot.
Speaker 7 (17:34):
I'm just curious. Can you explain? Yeah, I don't know
if there's a connection that feels very personal. My god, sorry, No,
it's cool, get into you. Yeah, let's go, let's go. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
She means like being home. Yeah, was that more time
to practice as opposed to No.
Speaker 7 (17:52):
I watched a lot of Joy Springer and I thank you. Yeah.
And you know, that was before I understood what practice was.
That's before practice was like suffering or a thing you
were supposed to do because you had to do it.
So it's just be like, remember, well, before there was
any sort of like four track recording device, you do
that thing where you have two tape recorders and you
(18:14):
just keep like recording the thing over the thing you want. Right,
So I did a lot of that, a lot of.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
You know, like five year old boss, so exactly, that.
Speaker 7 (18:26):
Was a lot of my of my time.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
At what age or what year did you master your craft?
Speaker 7 (18:33):
No, go ahead, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
No, I'm still learning.
Speaker 7 (18:39):
But it's true, it's true. And also that word master
is just problematic for me right now, likeation sense, I'm
just saying, like a master of what? Like master of what? Really?
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Okay, when when.
Speaker 9 (18:54):
Did you get comfortable with your skills as a as
a musician?
Speaker 7 (18:57):
Oh? Well, I'm not comfortable with them. But that's not
that's not a problem. I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
I've never seen someone where you're where you're coming from.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I mean, well, so do you still get intimidated going
on stage?
Speaker 7 (19:15):
Of course? The last joy? That's the joy? Like that
that is the practice too, Like if you know there's
some some ship that scares you and you're willing to
like dive through and dive in, like that is the
practice to I know that you need, but I like
to know that it might not work, you know what
I mean, Like I like to know, like, oh, ship,
how we're going to get out of this one?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
I like this? Yeah, okay, I love it.
Speaker 7 (19:36):
I definitely am.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
So this is weird to hear these answers. Okay, but
yet most of your songs are like in seven eight
meter like these odd times and these really dissident modulations. Yeah,
which I mean for those that don't understand, like want
of Layman's talk or whatever. I mean, it's like the
daredevil equivalent of of.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Tight rope walking.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Yeah, uh, Empire State Building, that's the same.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I do the sports ones, thank.
Speaker 7 (20:06):
You flowers to your head.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
So what I'm saying is is.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
That I mean, you're at least six seven albums deep
in walking the Wildside, So.
Speaker 7 (20:24):
It doesn't feel I mean, that's all your record all
your records, like it's not like maybe it's just not
that deep. Like I just do what I hear. If
I hear some ship and I can comprehend it. If
I have the like the whisper of the sound or
the premonition of the sound, I just go to make
that sound, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
So as they're speaking tonight, you're you're doing a collaborate
project with Robert.
Speaker 7 (20:51):
Robert, Yes, Chris justin Tyson.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Okay, just so with with that particular situation, are you
nervous about really?
Speaker 7 (21:05):
Yes, Robert is still Oh my god, Yes, it's what
makes you nervous? Is it because of who he is?
What he might do? Well, I feel very what he
might do. That's what he might do. I feel that.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
He'll do comedy before he'll do anything else.
Speaker 7 (21:23):
Yes, but also also like I remember something that George
Waen said once. He's like, you're young, you get into
jazz and you're doing it intuitively, like you're studying, and
it's all cool and anything, like oh I got this,
I can do this. Then you get like ten thirteen
years in and you realize how hard it actually is,
and then all of a sudden you're like god damn,
like thank god, I didn't understand how intense this was.
Like I'm at that place right now where I'm just
(21:45):
like holy shit, like there's so much more that I
want to do and study and training.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
Have you met a composition that you've yet to M
word M word?
Speaker 7 (21:59):
Yes? But isn't that the gift, Like what the hell,
it wouldn't be fun if you're out here, like I
go up this ship. Yeah, gone and done.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
I feel like you feel like the second that you
feel comfortable like okay, yeah, next, then everything's over Like wow, I'm.
Speaker 7 (22:19):
Here, but you're like that too, Like why.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Are you I'm in a new place now.
Speaker 7 (22:35):
You don't want to be challenging.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I'm going to enjoy this.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
I'm going to re enter your life through the through
phone communication, which I know you hate. No, I actually
I'm gonna buy your book and see if this changes you.
Speaker 7 (22:46):
Over text, I do. I prefer talking on the phone
again for the sonic exchange, you know, but right now,
like what I really would love to do, really, really
really in music, honestly, is to harness the best of
practices for music therapy and neuroscience. Say what yes, and
like get that into like a playbook that other musicians
can use. And it's not like you have to be
(23:07):
explicit like we're yielding these tools, but just like yo, okay,
Like these combinations of chords have this effect on the body,
Like these combinations of rhythms like have a soothing effect.
Oh my god, I don't know certain agree. Okay, done
and done.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
I've done a lot of cosmic crazy ship, you know
what it is.
Speaker 9 (23:30):
I read an interview with DJ Quick about maybe about
ten years ago, and he was talking about the way
he approaches when he's making beats. It's like he keeps
people's heart beats and you know, he's thinking about the
pace of their heart. I love that he's doing that,
So it's kind of I'm kind of getting that same vibe.
Speaker 7 (23:46):
For Graves. I don't know if y'all familiar with him.
There's a beautiful documentary called Full Mantis about his work.
He's been exploring this as a percussionist, and actually what
he discovered ended up informing like the medical field. He
is the one who discovered the measurements for heart great variables,
you know. And this was coming from his question as
a percussionist of like how do I affect and heal
the human heart from my rhythm? And I just like
(24:08):
I say this because as artists, like I was saying before,
we have been practicing something very unique, like we have
a superpower and it's incredible, and we yield it through
our art intuitively and through study and practice. And I
just feel like, right, now on planet Earth, like we
have an incredible gift to be offered through this medium
of music. People trust us, they need us, Like we
know that we're administering medicine. So I'm excited at this
(24:31):
particular moment of how that medicine can be like supercharged
with what our friends and colleagues over in the science
world are doing. You know.
Speaker 8 (24:38):
Yeah, I literally got to email from somebody who is
like the CEO of Musical Health Technologies. Oh so that's
like a literally and you went to Kappa with them. Yeah,
who oh, I was supposed to take it's out here.
Speaker 7 (24:48):
It's happening. It's happening, and it's ecass and maybe it'll
all come back around to what we already do intuitively,
like well, like we've been doing this.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
You know you are telling the truth because you remember,
like some time ago when Terrence Howard is talking a
little bit crazy on the Red carpet.
Speaker 7 (25:06):
Oh at Tyler, Well yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Yeah, and you know Black Twitter had a field day.
He was actually telling the truth. One he did it
in such a cosmic way. He did it in such
a cosmic way that would just set off Black Twitter
like he crazy. Well, I mean, the thing is you
know when people talk about like meditation and and kind
(25:31):
of metaphysics and all that stuff.
Speaker 9 (25:34):
Anything that ain't in the Bible, right exactly, we're getting there.
Speaker 7 (25:37):
People.
Speaker 8 (25:38):
Let's not be too hard on us and we out
of history. No we need we are doing We are
doing it more often than not when it comes to
meditation and things of that nature. That's not be hard
on us. All of us here know it.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
So I pulled.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
So I've been putting off this thing for like nine
months where I'm like, what the hell is the sound bath? Okay,
you're going to play a gong and I'm gonna do
some breathing exercise like lamas.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
It's going to change my life right to give birth
to music. Please keep talking, that's.
Speaker 7 (26:06):
The thing, please please. I love that.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
I'm just saying that. That's how closed closed I was
to the idea of it. And then I went into
the most transformative like experience of my life, which and
it's so hard. It's it's like I would have it's
probably easier to make you think that there is a
Santa Claus, but you're actually speaking into existence things that
(26:33):
happen where these people play music in meditation, and it's
it's it's past. Uh a tantric orgasm, like it's past
all of that. It's really and especially yes, I highly
recommend it.
Speaker 8 (26:49):
Can I ask you, guys, what it was to experience it?
You can?
Speaker 7 (26:55):
It's like, okay, how do you explain what it is?
I don't know what it is?
Speaker 8 (27:00):
I knew.
Speaker 7 (27:02):
Experiential, you know, like I practice reiki. When people ask
me what that is, I'm like, I can try to
explain it to you, but it'd be like if you
never heard music and I'm trying to explain to you
what the sensory experience of hearing organized sound is. You
feel it in your body, and when you feel it,
you get what the shit is. But until then, it
really doesn't help to explain experience.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
I believe, like when you see homeless people talking to
themselves on the.
Speaker 9 (27:28):
Street, mighty find me a group on for one.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Really, No, My dream is to organize this for my
loved ones, Like I'm gonna try and figure out how
I can do it for fifty people, But in the meanwhile,
I have to get them open to the idea of
doing this, because mine took me about My experience was
like eight hours. What I got there four point thirty
(27:53):
and after all the crying and screaming and all that
shit was done. You know, I'm telling my girlfriend like, oh, okay,
let's go get some me. She's like, Babe, it's three
forty five in the morning. Literally, yeah, it's it's you
went in. It's the most intense therapy thing that you'll
ever deal with.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
In your life.
Speaker 7 (28:13):
I think that we might be one of the few
cultures that doesn't have an articulation for the medicinal properties
of music.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
They doing in Africa, though, I think.
Speaker 7 (28:23):
That's what I'm saying. She's American, I'm saying in this
in this nation, in our culture. I think that it's
actually very common knowledge in many, many cultures that you
utilize music for specific functions, for grieving, for births, for birthdays,
for celebration, for even for medicinal reasons, you know. And
I think that right now we're coming back to that
(28:45):
maybe that ancient understanding. Yes, And I know a lot
of musicians who are asking like, okay, so how do
I like, how do I imbue what I do with that?
When you were speaking about wanting to bring your family
to it, I'm like, damn, is that something you can do?
From the stage, Like, is there a version where you
like weave some of that potency into what's being disseminated
for the whole audience.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
This is what I think that.
Speaker 7 (29:06):
That's real. That's real, it is, that's real. She knows
what she's doing.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
I'll give you a better example now hearing that nineteen
minute version of Pharaoh Sanders, the creator has a master plan, hey,
that or like the Principales, the Leon Thomas, just like
the twenty you know, like listening to it without context
and then like when he starts his yodeling thing, that
starts wearing, weirding me out, like, okay, what's he and
(29:33):
then they start primitive screaming and all that like pretty
much the last ages of Coltrane, the last stages of
Pharaoh Sanders' albums. Uh, truth be told. Yoko Ono's early
early stuff, Dude.
Speaker 9 (29:51):
My first experience, my first exposure to Yoko as a
vocalist was the Rolling Stones rock and roll circus. Yes,
and you've seen it. You know exactly what I saw
and what I heard so exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
No, but even even even with the plastic go thing
with with mother, all the screaming, please, yeah, all the
screaming at the.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
End of Mother is due to the fact that Yoko
got John into.
Speaker 7 (30:15):
Did that feel cathartic for you listening?
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yes, totally right.
Speaker 7 (30:19):
Isn't that deep? And I wonder when we're thinking about
you speaking about Faril Sanders and culture and like often
I think we speak about their intention of what they
were sending out. But I want us to just remember that,
you know, the personal work when we share it is
very potent and very powerful, just as medicine in and
of itself, because very rarely do we actually get to
(30:39):
witness people in healing process it it's hidden. It happens
in a room somewhere with like your therapist, or it
happens in your marriage counseling, or at church if you
happen to get the spirit if you're a lucky one,
you know. But I think that right now, like giving
that permission to show like the total vulnerability and almost
like borderline madness of what healing looks like, that catharsis
is a gift that we can give too.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
It is.
Speaker 9 (31:00):
I'm happy you brought up Creator as a master plane
because I still remember the very first time I heard that,
which was probably about maybe fifteen years ago, and it
really was like like I felt changed after I heard it. Yeah,
Like I was like, holy shit, like I've been you know,
a lifelong fan of music, you know, you know, music
is transformative. I had never experienced what I felt when
I first heard Created as a master plan.
Speaker 7 (31:19):
It's like whoa, and those individuals just to bring it
around or connect the dots, they to deep spiritual work
as well. Like I think those are two artists for sure,
Parol Sanders and John Coltran who recognized their lives as
the instrument as well. And we're doing that deep studying
and taking that responsibility to polish their instrument of their.
Speaker 9 (31:38):
When I finally understood what was going on with The
Love Supreme, like I was like, oh wow, this is
just well not not fully understood, but like you know,
when I finally realized that the you know, the last
part is him playing the prayer on the back of
the cover of the album, or you know when he
when he's playing the in the first part where he's
playing the Love Supreme motif, and you know, in every
key he's saying God is in every and everything, So
(32:01):
you know, just speaking up on things like that, it's like, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
A big part.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Why so maybe foreign to us because this is one
of the unfortunate, one of the kind of things that
I find problematic with how religion is in America, especially
in terms.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Especially well there's.
Speaker 9 (32:25):
The church the Coltrane in California.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
And so here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
When I was doing research on this is a long
story of me finding out how my ancestors came to
the States. And so the long story short is that
once they were emancipated, they were allowed to purchase a
big body of land two hundred acres of which they
were allowed to go back to their religion and their
(32:51):
way of living in their techniques, so they didn't have
to practice Christianity anymore. And once I did the research
of what they did in Africa Town in Alabama, at
first I was joking like, oh, no, wonder, I'm kind
of hippioists, Like there are a bunch of hippies. They
even in the Failout play they spoke of a I
can't pronounce it in bulk towards it's a religious practice
(33:12):
where it's like a three day meditation. It would be
the equivalent of a Hyawaska Ta ceremony or that sort
of thing. Or mushrooms or whatever. It's sort of like
the religion that was imposed on us for purposes of
slavery is conflicting into what we originally came from. And
(33:33):
so that's kind of what I'm conflicted with now on
at least trying to get other black people then not
just think that I'm some Birkenstock granola hippie.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
So yeah, hey, do tune in into and out.
Speaker 7 (33:46):
There's a large to tribe than you think. I like
to think that whatever archetypal benevolent energies there are, they
are very forgiving of the small, small minded ways that
human beings interpret what they have to say. I like
to imagine them in another realm, just like in harmony
with each other, and we're the ones who are like
clashing our like diminished edits of what they've offered with
(34:09):
each other, you know, because I mean everywhere you go
in the world that Christianity has been imposed, you see
ways that indigenous cultures have absorbed the best of and
use it as nomenclature to translate what they already knew
what they already knew to be truths, because I mean, essentially,
if you can't feel the ultimate truth in your heart?
What's the word gonna do for you? You know? And
(34:31):
I have seen this with friends who are practicing in
other faiths but are really open to Christianity. They find
the metaphor they need to access that benevolent archetype and
let it serve them and support them. So, you know,
like in other words, like I don't need to throw
away Christianity or like put it down. I just can
see that humans got their hands on it, diminished it
(34:53):
to diminish other human beings. But the archetypal truth exactly
is what it is. And I think there are benevolent
entities that are hard to describe, Like what we're.
Speaker 8 (35:04):
A dummy version of what you just said is most
people just say I'm spiritual.
Speaker 7 (35:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it work with it.
Speaker 8 (35:12):
Like not one or true religions. They got some truth,
here's some truth. I just pull it.
Speaker 7 (35:16):
But I mean that's that's similar to how we get
into music, right, Like essentially, if you are devoted, you're
gonna find what you need. Like devotion is devotion is devotionally,
it doesn't matter if you're a folk singer or a
jazz musician or whatever, Like if you're willing to put
in that level of devotion, like you will unpackage that
the polishing of your centrifuge, you know, and be able
to bring through the magic that that you have to
(35:37):
offer in this realm.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
I have a question, yes, with regards to music being
a healing tool and so forth, and I want to
just temporarily bring it to the to the actual bass
guitar and is the is the bass guitar or base
or anything that creates low end Is that is that
(36:04):
more suitable for healing because of the stronger vibrations.
Speaker 7 (36:10):
Oh, that's interesting. I don't know. For me, I experienced
it as a very soothing part of my life. Also,
I think more than the bass as an instrument, that
was an instrument that I could improvise on. It was
the first instrument that I actually felt free, just spontaneously
(36:32):
creating on. And I recently that's what.
Speaker 9 (36:34):
I meant by comfortable earlier.
Speaker 7 (36:35):
Yeah, Yeah, I recently learned that when you are in
the state of improvising, you're actually soothing your brain. So
being an active improvisation actually changes the functionality of your
brain as you're doing it. It's also the only time
that you're the part of your brain that forms I
narrative and the part of your brain that listens are
(36:57):
active at the same time. So personally, I don't know
if it's the instrument itself or the fact that I
was free on it. I know that my whole life,
when I've been playing the instrument, I've been soothing myself.
I've been soothing my brain. It is a blessing.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
But also because you know it, you'll feel the vibrations
more in your body because a stand up.
Speaker 7 (37:16):
Basically, yeah, that would be something interesting to look into.
Just the resonance. What the resonance of the instrument does?
It feels healing as hell?
Speaker 2 (37:23):
I mean, it's I have one other question about that bass.
So for people that don't know out there, the difference
between an upright bass or a standard an acoustic bass
and a double bass.
Speaker 7 (37:39):
Different.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
It's just different names for the same thing.
Speaker 7 (37:41):
Yeah, yeah, can I ask a question.
Speaker 8 (37:44):
My dad wanted me to ask you this question because
we were rolling around listening to your music the other
day and he was like, oh, I'm a fan. You
don't have to play it, he said, but he's as
a drummer. My dad's a drummer. He was like, I
need her to really talk about how difficult it is
to sing and play stand up bass and how those
somehow he did some of Mere bill Ship where it's
like the ones the two's in the fours, and how
(38:05):
it's hard to get in and stuff.
Speaker 7 (38:06):
But I didn't. I was like, I'm gonna ask the ruin,
ask espan. Yeah, I disagree that it's hard. I think
because it's all hard. All of it is difficult. I mean,
we know this.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
You know this practice I did.
Speaker 7 (38:22):
I did. I practiced a lot. I think anybody who
practiced as much as I did singing and playing would
find it as accessible as playing piano. Left and right
hand is just you're used to seeing that, so we
don't think about it as much. But like left and
right hand piano, independence is crazy?
Speaker 1 (38:38):
What's the thing you ignore?
Speaker 7 (38:40):
Ignore?
Speaker 5 (38:41):
If I'm playing and singing, I'm not thinking about what
I'm playing. I'm thinking about what I'm singing.
Speaker 7 (38:47):
Oh, interimating. I try to hear it all like I
try to stretch fe Okay, you know what it is
like After a certain point, the kinetic memory comes in
on the base. Yeah, so that you have access to that.
I have to say, though this particular era, I have
not been practicing that much, and it's really wild to
be in like a plying environment and actually be trying
(39:08):
to think about all that shit at once. It's it
doesn't feel it doesn't feel as close right.
Speaker 8 (39:13):
Now because Peters, my dad is eighty, and we were
really trying to rack our brains to think of other
stand musicians that play stand up base and sing, and we.
Speaker 7 (39:20):
Were like, yeah, can you play drums? Sure? Does it
sound good?
Speaker 1 (39:27):
You play good? Have you played on your albums?
Speaker 7 (39:30):
I have not?
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Okay, I got a question, but it's not too late.
Speaker 5 (39:34):
The Roots have been trying to complete their last album
for like three or four years. Yeah, and you like
to like make an album in like three days.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Yeah, things like that. So I feel like the two
of you.
Speaker 7 (39:46):
Yeah, but that yeah, that that album. What that was
was showcasing the process of creation as the project. So
it was less about the final product and more about
like the art form that we're exhibiting right here is
creation itself with all the tightrope walking involved. Because I
(40:07):
truly think personally in my Daredevil character that I am like,
when the risk is real, it activates this whole other
dimension of your creativity.
Speaker 9 (40:19):
That I agree with you and not just in music,
just I think it's in anything. Like I feel like
I do my best work when I'm under so much
pressure because that.
Speaker 7 (40:29):
Okay, what about it does not have to be pressure,
but just the stakes are real, Like, the stakes are
really real.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
You have to write the paper, You stay up all
night to write the paper for well you didn't go
to college because you're a prodigy, and then write the
paper the night before because you needed the deadline.
Speaker 7 (40:47):
No, no, I mean it like I think we're both
referring to like the creative environment where the stakes are
high and very real and there's nowhere else to go.
Like if you had two weeks to do the paper,
you could theoretically start a two weeks out and you
could feel that like, hm, okay, I'm leaning towards something.
What I love is when you're in an environment you
don't know what's about to happen, and you're being asked
(41:08):
to generate in real time a creative response. To me,
that's the most exciting space of creation.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Provisation one on one, I mean, that's exactly what you're doing.
Speaker 7 (41:14):
Yeah, that's also like improvisation at the highest level, because
improvisation one on one could be like, oh, I know
the context, it's going to be this like C Minor blues,
and here's all the scales and the shapes that I prepared.
I'm interested in the stuff that you don't know, Like
you don't know yet what it's going to look like,
you don't know what's coming at you, and you and
you co create in real time. And I think that's
what the Way showed Quartet did for the world. They
(41:35):
like showed the highest possible level of that, like spontaneous creation,
literally making something from nothing, because they'll go out and
have no idea, they don't have a set, they don't
have a song.
Speaker 5 (41:45):
But you learn that shit so you can forget it.
Isn't that that's the big line about that stuff. You
learn C Minor skills and all that other craft. When
you actually get there, you just vacated.
Speaker 7 (41:52):
Maybe that said a lot, but I'm having a hard
time thinking of anybody who actually exhibits what the possibility
is at that level. It's like the Way also, I
just I'm like such a devote of wings. I try
to talk about them as much as I can.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
Next level, I would like to propose a not a
challenge of missions before you leave god. Okay, okay, are
you familiar with Are you familiar with dogma ninety five?
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Have you heard that term? All right, so what is it?
Dogmen ninety five?
Speaker 7 (42:26):
Excited?
Speaker 4 (42:29):
So a bunch of Danish filmmakers tired, we're tired of
the French flexing on that.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Oh we're the best filmmakers, We're the most artistic. So
they about to say, like thee.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
So they so they issued a challenge which had all
these restrictions like okay, well then you got to make
a movie on this type of camera with natural lighting,
no soundtracks, nodada, no, edits no. And it was like,
who makes the best product under all these strictions. Then
they're the winner, and they called it Dogmen ninety five.
(43:03):
I would love to see I love them the music
version of that.
Speaker 9 (43:07):
Actually, I think there's I think why I think Matthew
Herbert the electronic musician works that way really and also
there's somebody else or somebody else Ohnoon. I don't know
if he still does, but when he first started, he
used to like when at the end of all of
his videos he would have like his little manifesto or whatever,
and it was the list of all all the things
(43:28):
he didn't all of his rules for making music.
Speaker 7 (43:30):
See, I think that's a luxury of the privilege though,
like truly, which is cute and beautiful, and.
Speaker 5 (43:36):
I I don't hear what you're saying.
Speaker 7 (43:43):
I really dig that. I really dig that I do.
And I'm thinking of this documentary that I saw about
the Landfillharmonic of these young people and their music teachers
who were making instruments out of garbage. But because that's
all that had access to and the drive to generate
music was so strong that they're like, Yo, we don't
have tellos, we don't have violins, but we have all
this stuff around us. Let's just make what we need.
(44:05):
And again, like that creative impulse of generating something out
of nothing is incredible. And for those of us who
have like infinite access to these resources, I sort of
feel like it's our responsibility to expand the spread it
(44:26):
and then spread it. If you have all that surplus,
like go find some musicians who are actually trying to
make some ship and like offer your access to them
instead of do it, you do it. I know you
do it.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
Sometimes To get out of here, We're going to continue
talking so we can come to terms.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Everything thank you, Thank you so much. You love Your
Must Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Great.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
This is Sugar Steve from Questlove Supreme. It's April, which
is Jazz appreciation months, so we are running some selections
from the QLs archives from artists who make some jazz music.
This is a pre Pandemic twenty twenty conversation with Esperando Spaldi,
who has become one of the.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
New stars of jazz. In this interview, Esperanza.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Talks about the real Portland, Oregon, learning how to play
jazz at a high level, and the neurological benefits of
certain rhythms. This is a deep and cosmic hour long chat.
Enjoy yo yo yo yo yo yo ya.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
You're good at spontaneity, making it up.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Supremo, Sir, Suprema. Roll call, Suprema su su Supremo. Roll
call Supremo s Supremo. Role call, Suprema s Supremo.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Roll a Prodigy. Yeah, win to Berkeley. Yeah me Jack JB.
I'm talking to.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Supremo, Suprema.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Roll called, Suprema son something Supremo.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Roll call. My name is Sugar.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, I have a question about jazz. Yeah for double bass, Yeah,
you need double hands.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Supreme Supremo, roll cal Suprema Supremo roll.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I'm unpaid, Bill don't give no fucks.
Speaker 5 (01:31):
Yeah, by his book, Yeah, mixtape looks Suprema Supremo.
Speaker 6 (01:39):
Roll call Suprema, So Supremo roll.
Speaker 7 (01:44):
What's your name now?
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (01:45):
For a spell in your body? Yeah, I can make
it for you quick yeah, or.
Speaker 6 (01:54):
Supremo Supremo Roll Suprema Supremo.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to a weird episode of Court
Love Supreme.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
It is raining outside the bomb cyclone.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
All I can say was that Laia, Bill and I
left from the same destination, but I decided to violate
some traffic laws to get here in time because our
guest today has to be out with the quickness.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So Steve insisted that we do the theme without Bill
and Laia. Yeah yeah, he insisted. Why because they got
to learn right, that's absolutely cruel, or they can overdub
it later. No, we never.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
We never overdubbed the theme anyway. Ladies and gentlemen, this
is Couest Love Supreme. So we're joined by the exquisite,
the remarkable, the ever expansive, the gift that you already
introduced me.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, my fault.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
We already said Sugar Steve, the original, the inspiring, one
of the cool, prolific creatives and music today, and most importantly,
she's a native of one of my all time favorite
cities on Earth, Portland, Oregon. Yeah, ladies and gentlemen, please
give it up for.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
So are you doing.
Speaker 7 (03:21):
After all that? I'm good settling? Settling?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
You're settling?
Speaker 7 (03:25):
Yeah, And I reflect back for you to you everything
you just said about me. Yeah, I'm grateful.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
I'm bad with I'm learning to accept implements at a
new place in my life. I read the Gene Keys book.
I'm learning to accept. For years you've been telling you
to accept. It's hard to accept compliments.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
I agree. Are you good or bad with compliments?
Speaker 7 (03:46):
I just let them roll and often bounce them back
to be real. Alsolet figure you can't perceive it if
you don't hold it.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
You know, I want you to hold the compliments. Yes,
hear all those things?
Speaker 7 (03:56):
Okay, I take that.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Can I sit closer to you?
Speaker 1 (03:59):
You sound prett great?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Based on his.
Speaker 7 (04:01):
Introduction, what's sitting closer going to do?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I don't know, yeah exactly.
Speaker 7 (04:06):
HR like some em and off.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Normally like I know my guests like the back of
my hand when they come to the show. But I
can't help but notice that in your bio and your
wiki bio, they had a factoid in there that kind
of took me back, which for me, like the idea
(04:31):
of Portland organ and the words gang activity never seemed
to mix.
Speaker 7 (04:38):
That's because it's the Portland of now you're trying to
translate it. Also if you come from like New York
or Baltimore or LA I think gang activity in Portland
is like a little paper cup that you get by
the cooler at the office, you know, su Price, Yeah,
But I.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Mean the way that we're trying to paint it was like,
you know, music was your salvation.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
There was gang activity in the neighborhood, and so am
I to believed that there's no differference between Portland, Oregon and.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
No, there's Portland is just like Compton.
Speaker 7 (05:04):
I mean, if you're growing up and sleeping in the
bathtub because there are guns outside and you've never been
to another city, it feels it feels imminent, it feels dangerous,
it feels scary. And that was the reality for a
few years growing up and in the Northeast while I
was raised. But you know, comparatively to some other cities.
I think we had it mild, but people were filing.
They were wiling.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Okay, but that's the thing.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
The fact that you had it it all shocks me
because people are genuinely jaw dropped when I tell them
that Portland organ is hands down my favorite city on Earth.
Speaker 7 (05:37):
Why is it your favorite city?
Speaker 4 (05:38):
More than half my record collection comes from there, So no, no, no,
I'm just saying, like.
Speaker 7 (05:44):
We do love music.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Well, the thing is, your record dealers really don't know
the value of certain things. So Portland is the place
that like Japanese record dealers fly to well to come
and buy records and then they sell them back to me.
Speaker 7 (05:58):
I'm in a thousand bucks, I do that's do advintage
clothing just for the record as well. No, no, yeah,
it's a trip. It's like everybody just figured it out.
But that reality that you're talking about was like our
secret because we were provincial. I mean, it's still kind
of you always knew about Ireland, like didn't know that
(06:21):
the world was really looking at Portland like that, you know, to.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Like beat makers and whatnot.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
I would lead them to Austin, which is my second
favorite city. But I sent them down south, far away
from my dodain of Portland, Oregon.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
So what was your childhood like? Did you grow up
in a musical family or No.
Speaker 7 (06:39):
I grew up with a single working mother and a
big brother, and I grew up just in a funky neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
It was.
Speaker 7 (06:47):
I didn't know that it was grimy, because that's all
that I had, But I know that we weren't allowed
to go outside because it felt dangerous, you know, after
the street lights came on, we had to stay in.
And I remember, I just remember wanted to always be
at the piano and always wanted to compose. And when
my mother took the dogs for a walk, I would
make her sing harmony with me. That's what I remember
(07:07):
my childhood. Kinds of freaking harmony. Yes, yes, nothing I
could hear. What age is that?
Speaker 8 (07:15):
Because I know you're a phenom in that way with
bus Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 7 (07:18):
It's I don't know if I'm a phenom. I've worked
a lot at stuff when I was a kid. But yeah,
very musical, I mean it, honestly, I don't remember they sang. Yeah.
She's from a generation where everybody could play piano, could
play piano and read piano music, you know, so for me,
it was just like anything that I heard on the
radio or on television and end credits I would go
(07:40):
find at the piano and that was the beginning of
my compositional journey.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Can you remember the first record that you purchased?
Speaker 7 (07:49):
Oh, it was M.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
You're Born in eighty four?
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Don't You Give Me No Tell a Little Bit of Love?
Speaker 7 (08:01):
It was probably Sorry to Let You Down. It was
probably Roomski Cours That's what it was though, and maybe
some Chibo Matto. I was really into Chibo Matto when
I was a kids. I probably bought an early Chipo
Mato record too.
Speaker 8 (08:19):
Well.
Speaker 7 (08:19):
I went to like a freaky arts high school, so
you know, we were in talls.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
You know, wait, how old were you when you brought
your first record?
Speaker 7 (08:25):
M Maybe twelve? That was how I could afford music
because they would be in the bins for fifty cents,
you know. So you go, you see the cool cover,
then you get to try it out and see if
you want it.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
You know, ninety four ninety five, this when you.
Speaker 7 (08:36):
Brought ninety six? Yeah something, thats okay? Yeah, what with
your first record?
Speaker 4 (08:43):
My first record is just actually nerdy. I did the
one thing please station. No, it's the worst, but I
have no shame in my game. You know, like when
especially seventies kids one, my parents didn't believe in babysitters.
Qualified Okay, I love it you No, it's not I'm
not doing the preference saying that my parents didn't babysitters.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
I wasn't allowed to talk to strangers, and.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
You know, I had I had an afro that rival
with yours as a five year old. So of course,
you know, like the whole primitive, exotic way old white
women come up and buy me stuff. I wasn't allowed
to ask for strangers for anything. And this woman comes
up to me. Your name is Ellie, and she's like something,
I say, records, so and then she got a napkin
(09:32):
and finn and she took my order down. And then
the next night came back with the Fisher Price record
player what and she gave me my first three records,
which was which.
Speaker 7 (09:45):
Have questions about that, right, like, just how that paints
your expectation on the world. Do you just expect to
ask some white ladies show up? But that's kind of
beaut I love that. I love that. I love that
in right, should be this White Lady?
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Did you talk like that? White Lady?
Speaker 5 (10:06):
Particularly child no contractions, just like I cannot do that?
Speaker 1 (10:10):
White Lady was the record she purchased me. I have
a shame.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
I don't know why I liked's Bad Blood. I don't
bad Blood? Uh one of these nice by the Eagles
song that subsequently scared me, the uh Rufus and Shaka
(10:39):
Khans dance with Me. I think I got Looking through
the Windows by the Jackson five and.
Speaker 9 (10:50):
It's all this, all this all explains quite a bit, actually,
And my fifth record was the Fifth Dimension version of
Love Hangover, which was out way before Diana Ross's version.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
What was the first one you physically bought? Not a
white lady bought for you.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
I got a good report card in the third grade,
so I my uncle gave me five For five bucks,
you could buy the Jackson's Destiny Ah track. She could
buy and Switches It Switches.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Oh you're right there with me.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Motherfuckers and Switches Switches debut album. Yeah, you could buy
a tracks for like to nineteen two thousand.
Speaker 7 (11:54):
Do you know what an a track is? I have
the Mad Hatter on a track for no reason, just
just to around it's okay.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, I mean, Esperanja is an old soul.
Speaker 7 (12:04):
She is anyway, I have memories that predate my birth.
I do. I'm holding them, Esperanza. Hi, I'm here.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
How old were you this show?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
All right?
Speaker 4 (12:24):
So how did you actually discover instruments? And what is
your instrument of choice? Because you do everything, You sing well,
you play bass well, you do piano, what like, what
is your I'm.
Speaker 7 (12:36):
Starting to think that the instrument is my life, you know,
those are the details. Yeah, no, I mean it's true.
I've been thinking a lot about just the potency of
word and sound anywhere that we are, and trying to
hold my existence, like my interfacing with people as the
instrumental exchange, because i know the power that sound has,
(12:57):
and I've been so focused on this, like I got shit.
I put the hours and like be able to do
the things, and recently I'm like, damn, but there's already
people who can do that. You know, there's already that
masterful bass player that's already taken it to the limit.
There's that massive vocalist who's taken it all the way.
Now I'm thinking about, like, what is the practice to
make every sound that I make and interaction that I
make like a beautiful performance in conversation.
Speaker 9 (13:21):
This actually reminds me of something I read and might
take Garci's book, Prince's ex Wife. She said that he
told her that to live every day like a work
of art. And that's what that sounds like.
Speaker 7 (13:30):
I am really a fan of that. Yeah, as a practice.
Speaker 8 (13:33):
Practice is sounds so free.
Speaker 7 (13:37):
I don't even comprehend right now.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Well, also this and I like to think I'm an
okay musician.
Speaker 7 (13:43):
You well, you're probably doing that. I'm just coming to
the consciousness of it. I think a lot of this.
Wayne short a quote when he talks about the premise
of this philosophy, this Buddhism Lily practices, and he said,
you know, with it, you get to create value out
of everything that's happening. And I think that's very much
what we do as improvisers when we're in a musical space,
like whatever the raw ingredients are in the studio with
the song sketch, you activate the creative powers to turn
(14:06):
that into a thing. So he talks about applying that
to everyday life, and he says, because if you're not
practicing that, what's practicing you?
Speaker 1 (14:15):
And that's of course, but that's.
Speaker 7 (14:19):
That's what we've been practicing as artists, right, We've been
practicing this creative capacity to take nothing or take fragments
and make something like that's the alchemy of making art.
So these days, just you ask, that's what I'm focused on.
That's the instrument that I want to study, practice and master.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
I gotta say that high five. When I first got
to know you, I guess you could say we known
each other at least over.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Ten years, right, Yeah, isn't that wild?
Speaker 4 (14:48):
By two thousand and seven, two eight, you're ten years ago,
you're very much Yeah, a little over ten years ago.
You're very much like the character weak bleek Gillia in
Mobile or Blues, because I remember that was Denzel's character.
Speaker 7 (15:07):
Is Mike Lee's moment I buy the same dress for
both my girlfriends?
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yes, dress? Shut shut up?
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Anyway, No, my point was we changed numbers. I called
you and you're like, hey, I'm rehearsing right now, you know,
hit me back. And then I called like two hours later,
You're like, yeah, now I'm rehearsing. And by the seventh time,
I was like, she's She's like the only person I
(15:38):
knew that forhearse.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Longer than you was friends. No, no, what's his name?
Jazz asphone player?
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Who?
Speaker 1 (15:48):
David uh David Murray. David Murray told me.
Speaker 4 (15:52):
That he's just on an average he practices ten hours.
Speaker 7 (15:56):
That's madness. Yeah, I don't. But just quickly the plug
for an album with terryln Carrington Jerry Al David Murray.
That's an amazing album for the record, No bass because
Jerry An's playing all the bass. But anyway back to us, yes, yes,
the red dress.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
But yeah, I love my dress.
Speaker 7 (16:12):
Thank you guys. And I remember every time I will
call you, you were on a treadmill. Yeah that literally, I'm like, yeah,
I'm on the treadmill right now, and he still wants
to talk. He still breathing the whole.
Speaker 8 (16:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
At nighttime, I'm doing twelve twelve gigs. Okay, so gone
to your head? What is your favorite instrument?
Speaker 7 (16:37):
What she's like a questions like that. No, really, it's
my life, man, I'm telling you, like it's it's not
about the instrument right now. I obviously love the bass,
obviously I love the voice, but like truly, the practice
right now to me is like polishing the instrument of
(16:58):
my humanity because everything emerges from there.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
So there's a fire in your house right now, what
do you say? I might get an answered at least
an instrument.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Yeah, fire in your house to your head.
Speaker 8 (17:11):
It's a really violent Sorry about all of a sudden,
come to question, super Yeah, Can I just ask you
a question about the way you grew up? Because I
read something interesting about how you had to be homeschool
because of something that you went through physically as a kid,
And as you were talking about rehearsing, I was like, well,
I wonder if if some of your rehearsing, uh, it
comes from the fact that you were at home a
(17:32):
lot and you have to practice a lot.
Speaker 7 (17:34):
I'm just curious. Can you explain? Yeah, I don't know
if there's a connection that feels very personal. My god, sorry, No,
it's cool, get into you. Yeah, let's go, let's go. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
She means like being home. Yeah, was that more time
to practice as opposed to No.
Speaker 7 (17:52):
I watched a lot of Joy Springer and I thank you. Yeah.
And you know, that was before I understood what practice was.
That's before practice was like suffering or a thing you
were supposed to do because you had to do it.
So it's just be like, remember, well, before there was
any sort of like four track recording device, you do
that thing where you have two tape recorders and you
(18:14):
just keep like recording the thing over the thing you want. Right,
So I did a lot of that, a lot of.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
You know, like five year old boss, so exactly, that.
Speaker 7 (18:26):
Was a lot of my of my time.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
At what age or what year did you master your craft?
Speaker 7 (18:33):
No, go ahead, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
No, I'm still learning.
Speaker 7 (18:39):
But it's true, it's true. And also that word master
is just problematic for me right now, likeation sense, I'm
just saying, like a master of what? Like master of what? Really?
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Okay, when when.
Speaker 9 (18:54):
Did you get comfortable with your skills as a as
a musician?
Speaker 7 (18:57):
Oh? Well, I'm not comfortable with them. But that's not
that's not a problem. I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
I've never seen someone where you're where you're coming from.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I mean, well, so do you still get intimidated going
on stage?
Speaker 7 (19:15):
Of course? The last joy? That's the joy? Like that
that is the practice too, Like if you know there's
some some ship that scares you and you're willing to
like dive through and dive in, like that is the
practice to I know that you need, but I like
to know that it might not work, you know what
I mean, Like I like to know, like, oh, ship,
how we're going to get out of this one?
Speaker 1 (19:33):
I like this? Yeah, okay, I love it.
Speaker 7 (19:36):
I definitely am.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
So this is weird to hear these answers. Okay, but
yet most of your songs are like in seven eight
meter like these odd times and these really dissident modulations. Yeah,
which I mean for those that don't understand, like want
of Layman's talk or whatever. I mean, it's like the
daredevil equivalent of of.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Tight rope walking.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Yeah, uh, Empire State Building, that's the same.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
I do the sports ones, thank.
Speaker 7 (20:06):
You flowers to your head.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
So what I'm saying is is.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
That I mean, you're at least six seven albums deep
in walking the Wildside, So.
Speaker 7 (20:24):
It doesn't feel I mean, that's all your record all
your records, like it's not like maybe it's just not
that deep. Like I just do what I hear. If
I hear some ship and I can comprehend it. If
I have the like the whisper of the sound or
the premonition of the sound, I just go to make
that sound, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
So as they're speaking tonight, you're you're doing a collaborate
project with Robert.
Speaker 7 (20:51):
Robert, Yes, Chris justin Tyson.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Okay, just so with with that particular situation, are you
nervous about really?
Speaker 7 (21:05):
Yes, Robert is still Oh my god, Yes, it's what
makes you nervous? Is it because of who he is?
What he might do? Well, I feel very what he
might do. That's what he might do. I feel that.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
He'll do comedy before he'll do anything else.
Speaker 7 (21:23):
Yes, but also also like I remember something that George
Waen said once. He's like, you're young, you get into
jazz and you're doing it intuitively, like you're studying, and
it's all cool and anything, like oh I got this,
I can do this. Then you get like ten thirteen
years in and you realize how hard it actually is,
and then all of a sudden you're like god damn,
like thank god, I didn't understand how intense this was.
Like I'm at that place right now where I'm just
(21:45):
like holy shit, like there's so much more that I
want to do and study and training.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
Have you met a composition that you've yet to M
word M word?
Speaker 7 (21:59):
Yes? But isn't that the gift, Like what the hell,
it wouldn't be fun if you're out here, like I
go up this ship. Yeah, gone and done.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
I feel like you feel like the second that you
feel comfortable like okay, yeah, next, then everything's over Like wow, I'm.
Speaker 7 (22:19):
Here, but you're like that too, Like why.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Are you I'm in a new place now.
Speaker 7 (22:35):
You don't want to be challenging.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I'm going to enjoy this.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
I'm going to re enter your life through the through
phone communication, which I know you hate. No, I actually
I'm gonna buy your book and see if this changes you.
Speaker 7 (22:46):
Over text, I do. I prefer talking on the phone
again for the sonic exchange, you know, but right now,
like what I really would love to do, really, really
really in music, honestly, is to harness the best of
practices for music therapy and neuroscience. Say what yes, and
like get that into like a playbook that other musicians
can use. And it's not like you have to be
(23:07):
explicit like we're yielding these tools, but just like yo, okay,
Like these combinations of chords have this effect on the body,
Like these combinations of rhythms like have a soothing effect.
Oh my god, I don't know certain agree. Okay, done
and done.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
I've done a lot of cosmic crazy ship, you know
what it is.
Speaker 9 (23:30):
I read an interview with DJ Quick about maybe about
ten years ago, and he was talking about the way
he approaches when he's making beats. It's like he keeps
people's heart beats and you know, he's thinking about the
pace of their heart. I love that he's doing that,
So it's kind of I'm kind of getting that same vibe.
Speaker 7 (23:46):
For Graves. I don't know if y'all familiar with him.
There's a beautiful documentary called Full Mantis about his work.
He's been exploring this as a percussionist, and actually what
he discovered ended up informing like the medical field. He
is the one who discovered the measurements for heart great variables,
you know. And this was coming from his question as
a percussionist of like how do I affect and heal
the human heart from my rhythm? And I just like
(24:08):
I say this because as artists, like I was saying before,
we have been practicing something very unique, like we have
a superpower and it's incredible, and we yield it through
our art intuitively and through study and practice. And I
just feel like, right, now on planet Earth, like we
have an incredible gift to be offered through this medium
of music. People trust us, they need us, Like we
know that we're administering medicine. So I'm excited at this
(24:31):
particular moment of how that medicine can be like supercharged
with what our friends and colleagues over in the science
world are doing. You know.
Speaker 8 (24:38):
Yeah, I literally got to email from somebody who is
like the CEO of Musical Health Technologies. Oh so that's
like a literally and you went to Kappa with them. Yeah,
who oh, I was supposed to take it's out here.
Speaker 7 (24:48):
It's happening. It's happening, and it's ecass and maybe it'll
all come back around to what we already do intuitively,
like well, like we've been doing this.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
You know you are telling the truth because you remember,
like some time ago when Terrence Howard is talking a
little bit crazy on the Red carpet.
Speaker 7 (25:06):
Oh at Tyler, Well yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Yeah, and you know Black Twitter had a field day.
He was actually telling the truth. One he did it
in such a cosmic way. He did it in such
a cosmic way that would just set off Black Twitter
like he crazy. Well, I mean, the thing is you
know when people talk about like meditation and and kind
(25:31):
of metaphysics and all that stuff.
Speaker 9 (25:34):
Anything that ain't in the Bible, right exactly, we're getting there.
Speaker 7 (25:37):
People.
Speaker 8 (25:38):
Let's not be too hard on us and we out
of history. No we need we are doing We are
doing it more often than not when it comes to
meditation and things of that nature. That's not be hard
on us. All of us here know it.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
So I pulled.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
So I've been putting off this thing for like nine
months where I'm like, what the hell is the sound bath? Okay,
you're going to play a gong and I'm gonna do
some breathing exercise like lamas.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
It's going to change my life right to give birth
to music. Please keep talking, that's.
Speaker 7 (26:06):
The thing, please please. I love that.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
I'm just saying that. That's how closed closed I was
to the idea of it. And then I went into
the most transformative like experience of my life, which and
it's so hard. It's it's like I would have it's
probably easier to make you think that there is a
Santa Claus, but you're actually speaking into existence things that
(26:33):
happen where these people play music in meditation, and it's
it's it's past. Uh a tantric orgasm, like it's past
all of that. It's really and especially yes, I highly
recommend it.
Speaker 8 (26:49):
Can I ask you, guys, what it was to experience it?
You can?
Speaker 7 (26:55):
It's like, okay, how do you explain what it is?
I don't know what it is?
Speaker 8 (27:00):
I knew.
Speaker 7 (27:02):
Experiential, you know, like I practice reiki. When people ask
me what that is, I'm like, I can try to
explain it to you, but it'd be like if you
never heard music and I'm trying to explain to you
what the sensory experience of hearing organized sound is. You
feel it in your body, and when you feel it,
you get what the shit is. But until then, it
really doesn't help to explain experience.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
I believe, like when you see homeless people talking to
themselves on the.
Speaker 9 (27:28):
Street, mighty find me a group on for one.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Really, No, My dream is to organize this for my
loved ones, Like I'm gonna try and figure out how
I can do it for fifty people, But in the meanwhile,
I have to get them open to the idea of
doing this, because mine took me about My experience was
like eight hours. What I got there four point thirty
(27:53):
and after all the crying and screaming and all that
shit was done. You know, I'm telling my girlfriend like, oh, okay,
let's go get some me. She's like, Babe, it's three
forty five in the morning. Literally, yeah, it's it's you
went in. It's the most intense therapy thing that you'll
ever deal with.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
In your life.
Speaker 7 (28:13):
I think that we might be one of the few
cultures that doesn't have an articulation for the medicinal properties
of music.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
They doing in Africa, though, I think.
Speaker 7 (28:23):
That's what I'm saying. She's American, I'm saying in this
in this nation, in our culture. I think that it's
actually very common knowledge in many, many cultures that you
utilize music for specific functions, for grieving, for births, for birthdays,
for celebration, for even for medicinal reasons, you know. And
I think that right now we're coming back to that
(28:45):
maybe that ancient understanding. Yes, And I know a lot
of musicians who are asking like, okay, so how do
I like, how do I imbue what I do with that?
When you were speaking about wanting to bring your family
to it, I'm like, damn, is that something you can do?
From the stage, Like, is there a version where you
like weave some of that potency into what's being disseminated
for the whole audience.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
This is what I think that.
Speaker 7 (29:06):
That's real. That's real, it is, that's real. She knows
what she's doing.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
I'll give you a better example now hearing that nineteen
minute version of Pharaoh Sanders, the creator has a master plan, hey,
that or like the Principales, the Leon Thomas, just like
the twenty you know, like listening to it without context
and then like when he starts his yodeling thing, that
starts wearing, weirding me out, like, okay, what's he and
(29:33):
then they start primitive screaming and all that like pretty
much the last ages of Coltrane, the last stages of
Pharaoh Sanders' albums. Uh, truth be told. Yoko Ono's early
early stuff, Dude.
Speaker 9 (29:51):
My first experience, my first exposure to Yoko as a
vocalist was the Rolling Stones rock and roll circus. Yes,
and you've seen it. You know exactly what I saw
and what I heard so exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
No, but even even even with the plastic go thing
with with mother, all the screaming, please, yeah, all the
screaming at the.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
End of Mother is due to the fact that Yoko
got John into.
Speaker 7 (30:15):
Did that feel cathartic for you listening?
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yes, totally right.
Speaker 7 (30:19):
Isn't that deep? And I wonder when we're thinking about
you speaking about Faril Sanders and culture and like often
I think we speak about their intention of what they
were sending out. But I want us to just remember that,
you know, the personal work when we share it is
very potent and very powerful, just as medicine in and
of itself, because very rarely do we actually get to
(30:39):
witness people in healing process it it's hidden. It happens
in a room somewhere with like your therapist, or it
happens in your marriage counseling, or at church if you
happen to get the spirit if you're a lucky one,
you know. But I think that right now, like giving
that permission to show like the total vulnerability and almost
like borderline madness of what healing looks like, that catharsis
is a gift that we can give too.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
It is.
Speaker 9 (31:00):
I'm happy you brought up Creator as a master plane
because I still remember the very first time I heard that,
which was probably about maybe fifteen years ago, and it
really was like like I felt changed after I heard it. Yeah,
Like I was like, holy shit, like I've been you know,
a lifelong fan of music, you know, you know, music
is transformative. I had never experienced what I felt when
I first heard Created as a master plan.
Speaker 7 (31:19):
It's like whoa, and those individuals just to bring it
around or connect the dots, they to deep spiritual work
as well. Like I think those are two artists for sure,
Parol Sanders and John Coltran who recognized their lives as
the instrument as well. And we're doing that deep studying
and taking that responsibility to polish their instrument of their.
Speaker 9 (31:38):
When I finally understood what was going on with The
Love Supreme, like I was like, oh wow, this is
just well not not fully understood, but like you know,
when I finally realized that the you know, the last
part is him playing the prayer on the back of
the cover of the album, or you know when he
when he's playing the in the first part where he's
playing the Love Supreme motif, and you know, in every
key he's saying God is in every and everything, So
(32:01):
you know, just speaking up on things like that, it's like, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
A big part.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Why so maybe foreign to us because this is one
of the unfortunate, one of the kind of things that
I find problematic with how religion is in America, especially
in terms.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Especially well there's.
Speaker 9 (32:25):
The church the Coltrane in California.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
And so here's the thing.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
When I was doing research on this is a long
story of me finding out how my ancestors came to
the States. And so the long story short is that
once they were emancipated, they were allowed to purchase a
big body of land two hundred acres of which they
were allowed to go back to their religion and their
(32:51):
way of living in their techniques, so they didn't have
to practice Christianity anymore. And once I did the research
of what they did in Africa Town in Alabama, at
first I was joking like, oh, no, wonder, I'm kind
of hippioists, Like there are a bunch of hippies. They
even in the Failout play they spoke of a I
can't pronounce it in bulk towards it's a religious practice
(33:12):
where it's like a three day meditation. It would be
the equivalent of a Hyawaska Ta ceremony or that sort
of thing. Or mushrooms or whatever. It's sort of like
the religion that was imposed on us for purposes of
slavery is conflicting into what we originally came from. And
(33:33):
so that's kind of what I'm conflicted with now on
at least trying to get other black people then not
just think that I'm some Birkenstock granola hippie.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
So yeah, hey, do tune in into and out.
Speaker 7 (33:46):
There's a large to tribe than you think. I like
to think that whatever archetypal benevolent energies there are, they
are very forgiving of the small, small minded ways that
human beings interpret what they have to say. I like
to imagine them in another realm, just like in harmony
with each other, and we're the ones who are like
clashing our like diminished edits of what they've offered with
(34:09):
each other, you know, because I mean everywhere you go
in the world that Christianity has been imposed, you see
ways that indigenous cultures have absorbed the best of and
use it as nomenclature to translate what they already knew
what they already knew to be truths, because I mean, essentially,
if you can't feel the ultimate truth in your heart?
What's the word gonna do for you? You know? And
(34:31):
I have seen this with friends who are practicing in
other faiths but are really open to Christianity. They find
the metaphor they need to access that benevolent archetype and
let it serve them and support them. So, you know,
like in other words, like I don't need to throw
away Christianity or like put it down. I just can
see that humans got their hands on it, diminished it
(34:53):
to diminish other human beings. But the archetypal truth exactly
is what it is. And I think there are benevolent
entities that are hard to describe, Like what we're.
Speaker 8 (35:04):
A dummy version of what you just said is most
people just say I'm spiritual.
Speaker 7 (35:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it work with it.
Speaker 8 (35:12):
Like not one or true religions. They got some truth,
here's some truth. I just pull it.
Speaker 7 (35:16):
But I mean that's that's similar to how we get
into music, right, Like essentially, if you are devoted, you're
gonna find what you need. Like devotion is devotion is devotionally,
it doesn't matter if you're a folk singer or a
jazz musician or whatever, Like if you're willing to put
in that level of devotion, like you will unpackage that
the polishing of your centrifuge, you know, and be able
to bring through the magic that that you have to
(35:37):
offer in this realm.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
I have a question, yes, with regards to music being
a healing tool and so forth, and I want to
just temporarily bring it to the to the actual bass
guitar and is the is the bass guitar or base
or anything that creates low end Is that is that
(36:04):
more suitable for healing because of the stronger vibrations.
Speaker 7 (36:10):
Oh, that's interesting. I don't know. For me, I experienced
it as a very soothing part of my life. Also,
I think more than the bass as an instrument, that
was an instrument that I could improvise on. It was
the first instrument that I actually felt free, just spontaneously
(36:32):
creating on. And I recently that's what.
Speaker 9 (36:34):
I meant by comfortable earlier.
Speaker 7 (36:35):
Yeah, Yeah, I recently learned that when you are in
the state of improvising, you're actually soothing your brain. So
being an active improvisation actually changes the functionality of your
brain as you're doing it. It's also the only time
that you're the part of your brain that forms I
narrative and the part of your brain that listens are
(36:57):
active at the same time. So personally, I don't know
if it's the instrument itself or the fact that I
was free on it. I know that my whole life,
when I've been playing the instrument, I've been soothing myself.
I've been soothing my brain. It is a blessing.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
But also because you know it, you'll feel the vibrations
more in your body because a stand up.
Speaker 7 (37:16):
Basically, yeah, that would be something interesting to look into.
Just the resonance. What the resonance of the instrument does?
It feels healing as hell?
Speaker 2 (37:23):
I mean, it's I have one other question about that bass.
So for people that don't know out there, the difference
between an upright bass or a standard an acoustic bass
and a double bass.
Speaker 7 (37:39):
Different.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
It's just different names for the same thing.
Speaker 7 (37:41):
Yeah, yeah, can I ask a question.
Speaker 8 (37:44):
My dad wanted me to ask you this question because
we were rolling around listening to your music the other
day and he was like, oh, I'm a fan. You
don't have to play it, he said, but he's as
a drummer. My dad's a drummer. He was like, I
need her to really talk about how difficult it is
to sing and play stand up bass and how those
somehow he did some of Mere bill Ship where it's
like the ones the two's in the fours, and how
(38:05):
it's hard to get in and stuff.
Speaker 7 (38:06):
But I didn't. I was like, I'm gonna ask the ruin,
ask espan. Yeah, I disagree that it's hard. I think
because it's all hard. All of it is difficult. I mean,
we know this.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
You know this practice I did.
Speaker 7 (38:22):
I did. I practiced a lot. I think anybody who
practiced as much as I did singing and playing would
find it as accessible as playing piano. Left and right
hand is just you're used to seeing that, so we
don't think about it as much. But like left and
right hand piano, independence is crazy?
Speaker 1 (38:38):
What's the thing you ignore?
Speaker 7 (38:40):
Ignore?
Speaker 5 (38:41):
If I'm playing and singing, I'm not thinking about what
I'm playing. I'm thinking about what I'm singing.
Speaker 7 (38:47):
Oh, interimating. I try to hear it all like I
try to stretch fe Okay, you know what it is
like After a certain point, the kinetic memory comes in
on the base. Yeah, so that you have access to that.
I have to say, though this particular era, I have
not been practicing that much, and it's really wild to
be in like a plying environment and actually be trying
(39:08):
to think about all that shit at once. It's it
doesn't feel it doesn't feel as close right.
Speaker 8 (39:13):
Now because Peters, my dad is eighty, and we were
really trying to rack our brains to think of other
stand musicians that play stand up base and sing, and we.
Speaker 7 (39:20):
Were like, yeah, can you play drums? Sure? Does it
sound good?
Speaker 1 (39:27):
You play good? Have you played on your albums?
Speaker 7 (39:30):
I have not?
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Okay, I got a question, but it's not too late.
Speaker 5 (39:34):
The Roots have been trying to complete their last album
for like three or four years. Yeah, and you like
to like make an album in like three days.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Yeah, things like that. So I feel like the two
of you.
Speaker 7 (39:46):
Yeah, but that yeah, that that album. What that was
was showcasing the process of creation as the project. So
it was less about the final product and more about
like the art form that we're exhibiting right here is
creation itself with all the tightrope walking involved. Because I
(40:07):
truly think personally in my Daredevil character that I am like,
when the risk is real, it activates this whole other
dimension of your creativity.
Speaker 9 (40:19):
That I agree with you and not just in music,
just I think it's in anything. Like I feel like
I do my best work when I'm under so much
pressure because that.
Speaker 7 (40:29):
Okay, what about it does not have to be pressure,
but just the stakes are real, Like, the stakes are
really real.
Speaker 5 (40:35):
You have to write the paper, You stay up all
night to write the paper for well you didn't go
to college because you're a prodigy, and then write the
paper the night before because you needed the deadline.
Speaker 7 (40:47):
No, no, I mean it like I think we're both
referring to like the creative environment where the stakes are
high and very real and there's nowhere else to go.
Like if you had two weeks to do the paper,
you could theoretically start a two weeks out and you
could feel that like, hm, okay, I'm leaning towards something.
What I love is when you're in an environment you
don't know what's about to happen, and you're being asked
(41:08):
to generate in real time a creative response. To me,
that's the most exciting space of creation.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Provisation one on one, I mean, that's exactly what you're doing.
Speaker 7 (41:14):
Yeah, that's also like improvisation at the highest level, because
improvisation one on one could be like, oh, I know
the context, it's going to be this like C Minor blues,
and here's all the scales and the shapes that I prepared.
I'm interested in the stuff that you don't know, Like
you don't know yet what it's going to look like,
you don't know what's coming at you, and you and
you co create in real time. And I think that's
what the Way showed Quartet did for the world. They
(41:35):
like showed the highest possible level of that, like spontaneous creation,
literally making something from nothing, because they'll go out and
have no idea, they don't have a set, they don't
have a song.
Speaker 5 (41:45):
But you learn that shit so you can forget it.
Isn't that that's the big line about that stuff. You
learn C Minor skills and all that other craft. When
you actually get there, you just vacated.
Speaker 7 (41:52):
Maybe that said a lot, but I'm having a hard
time thinking of anybody who actually exhibits what the possibility
is at that level. It's like the Way also, I
just I'm like such a devote of wings. I try
to talk about them as much as I can.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
Next level, I would like to propose a not a
challenge of missions before you leave god. Okay, okay, are
you familiar with Are you familiar with dogma ninety five?
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Have you heard that term? All right, so what is it?
Dogmen ninety five?
Speaker 7 (42:26):
Excited?
Speaker 4 (42:29):
So a bunch of Danish filmmakers tired, we're tired of
the French flexing on that.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Oh we're the best filmmakers, We're the most artistic. So
they about to say, like thee.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
So they so they issued a challenge which had all
these restrictions like okay, well then you got to make
a movie on this type of camera with natural lighting,
no soundtracks, nodada, no, edits no. And it was like,
who makes the best product under all these strictions. Then
they're the winner, and they called it Dogmen ninety five.
(43:03):
I would love to see I love them the music
version of that.
Speaker 9 (43:07):
Actually, I think there's I think why I think Matthew
Herbert the electronic musician works that way really and also
there's somebody else or somebody else Ohnoon. I don't know
if he still does, but when he first started, he
used to like when at the end of all of
his videos he would have like his little manifesto or whatever,
and it was the list of all all the things
(43:28):
he didn't all of his rules for making music.
Speaker 7 (43:30):
See, I think that's a luxury of the privilege though,
like truly, which is cute and beautiful, and.
Speaker 5 (43:36):
I I don't hear what you're saying.
Speaker 7 (43:43):
I really dig that. I really dig that I do.
And I'm thinking of this documentary that I saw about
the Landfillharmonic of these young people and their music teachers
who were making instruments out of garbage. But because that's
all that had access to and the drive to generate
music was so strong that they're like, Yo, we don't
have tellos, we don't have violins, but we have all
this stuff around us. Let's just make what we need.
(44:05):
And again, like that creative impulse of generating something out
of nothing is incredible. And for those of us who
have like infinite access to these resources, I sort of
feel like it's our responsibility to expand the spread it
(44:26):
and then spread it. If you have all that surplus,
like go find some musicians who are actually trying to
make some ship and like offer your access to them
instead of do it, you do it. I know you
do it.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
Sometimes To get out of here, We're going to continue
talking so we can come to terms.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Everything thank you, Thank you so much. You love Your
Must Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Great.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
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