Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club
Mourning everybody. It's dj NV just Hilarius Chlamagne the God.
We are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest
in the building. Yes, indeed be a form of Baltimore
City State Attorney Marilyn Moseby. Welcome, Thank you for having me,
Thank you. We also have Angela Raie here as well. Hello, Hello,
(00:21):
miss Ryan.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
While y'all both got on Cameouflood, were ready for it.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Was it wasn't even on purpose, being on one accord,
were ready for work.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
Taylor was too earlier.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Okay, okay, how are you though, Maryland? How are you feeling?
Speaker 5 (00:34):
I feel grateful. It's been really really hard. I mean,
we'll get into the case, but no, I have been
accused of doing something that I have not done. I'm innocent.
I'm facing forty years for withdrawing funds from my retirement savings.
The United States government, a global superpower is actually coming
(00:56):
for me. And so it's it's been hard and it's
been daunting, but I feel blessed because you know, I
have people in my corner like the Great Angela Rye right,
this bold, beautiful, brilliant black woman who is using her
platform to heighten what I'm going through. And I mean,
(01:19):
the only thing I could say is gratitude.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Let's start from the beginning of that. How did you
get to this position? Right? We seen Donald Trump throwing
darts at you, But how did you get to this position?
What happened? Let's start from the beginning.
Speaker 5 (01:31):
So when you say you start from the beginning, like
the attacks, I would say.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Well, you a Baltimore's City State's attorney, so you're doing
your job. And then it took a shift. When did
it start taking a ship? When did the government start
attacking you? And for what reason?
Speaker 5 (01:45):
So when I became the States Attorney, I was the
youngest chief prosecutor of any major American city in the country.
I won at the age of thirty four, and then
I beat an incumbent that outraised me or to one
by double digit percentage points. And so five months into
my first term, you know, unfortunately, a young black man
(02:05):
by the name of Freddie Carlos Gray Junior was killed
in the custody of police when he was unconstitutionally arrested,
placed into a metal wagon headfirst, feet shackled and handcuffed.
And it's pleased for medical attention were ignored. I followed
the facts with the law. I wouldn't do anything differently,
but I charged those police officers. And at that time,
(02:27):
I was one of the first prosecutors in the country
to attempt to hold police officers accountable for the death
of a black man. And so that wasn't happening in
this country, and so it immediately came with a great
deal of backlash. You know, I got hate mail and
death threats, people describing how then my now ex husband
would come out of our house and he would be killed,
(02:49):
and how no police officers would respond. You know, it
was a lot. This is pre Trump. This is you know,
I had the social media. It was off the chain.
This is before you know, you get kind of get
used to it now, but this had a red nation
rising where they were sending me all kinds of like
hate mail, and it was it was insane. But that's
(03:12):
when they started to come from my law license. They
were trying to, you know, do whatever they could to
break me. And what we learned out of that case,
those officers were acquitted, and in my opinion, the police
department sabotaged the case. But we learned our lessons. So
in twenty sixteen, when I dismissed it, we put out
(03:32):
a slate of police accountability reform proposals that were subsequently
adopted nationally after George Floyd. You can go on record
and you can see those same sort of proposals. But
we also learned our lessons in that during my tenure
we then subsequently prosecuted thirty three police officers.
Speaker 6 (03:52):
Successfully, not just you didn't go after just to Freddie
Gray police officer's, thirty three other police officers successfully.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
Anybody that preyed upon the vulnerabilities the citizens of Baltimore
had to deal with my office. You know, there was
a Gun Trace Task Force. This was one of the
largest police corruption scandals in the history of the country,
where for decades you had officers planting guns and drugs
on citizens, and so, understanding that the credibility of those
(04:20):
officers were at issue, you know, we drafted legislation, lobbied
for legislation, went against my colleagues across the state, and
we were able to pass a vacatr statute that, in
the interests of justice, gave prosecutors mechanisms to vacate the convictions.
Imagine you know, individuals like that making claims on citizens
(04:42):
and they're lying. So we had to review thousands of cases,
and ultimately, through that legislation that we we created, we
vacated the convictions of over eight hundred individuals.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
And that ain't gain you no fans in law enforcement
and police union.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
I mean yeah, especially when the lead prosecutor on the
Gun Trace Task Force. I'm gonna say this part because
she shouldn't. The Gun Trace Task Force Leo Wise, which
is a lawyer who, before he went to the Maryland
US Attorney's Office, worked on Capitol Hill. All of his
targets were black people. He goes there, he prosecutes these
(05:18):
Gun Trace Task Force members, five of them are black,
three of them are white. He doesn't go after their boss.
Maryland says, oh, well, since we're you're finding corruption, we're
gonna make sure that we review all these cases. I
think that this man's ego didn't allow for him to
see that that was actually beneficial. If there was someone
who did wrong by the law, then the conviction should
be overturned. He took that as a personal affront. Not
(05:40):
only was he the lead prosecutor on the case against Maryland,
he donated to her political opponents that in and of
itself should be a material conflict that got him removed
from the cases against her. So they went after her.
They were looking for things over and over again. Donald
Trump said that he was going to go after the
protesters during the George Floyd unrest in this country and
(06:04):
targeted Baltimore is one of them. That's not the first
time he named Jick Maryland. Two months after well, they
wrote an op ed saying, if you come to our cities,
if you send the Fed to our cities, We're gonna
prosecute the Feds. Another bowl moved by her. Two months
after that, she was under federal investigation. That's not by accident.
That's not happenstance.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Now, before we.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
Get to the case, right, what other things were they
doing to you that you started to notice, like when
you realize, like, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Theywn my ass.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
So I mean I understood and recognized that, you know,
challenging the status quo wasn't just my you know, attempts
to balance the skills of justice when it comes to
holding police officers accountable. There were a great deal of
other like reforms that we put into place, you guys
covered it. At one point, we stopped prosecuting low level
marijuana possession cases right in the City of Baltimore before
(06:55):
it was legalized, because there was an expectation that, you know,
that the guys in certain neighborhoods they could get the
substance use. And unfortunately, we wanted to criminalize black folks
even after we did decriminalize ten grams or less in marijuana,
and the police were responsible for issuing citations, ninety five
(07:16):
percent of the citations that they were issuing were issued
to one particular one out of nine police districts. That
district that they were issuing the citations happened to be
ninety five percent black and disproportionately impoverished. Right, And so
when we look at that fact that there's no disparate
use among white and black people when it comes to
mere possession of marijuana in America, if you're a white person,
(07:38):
you're you're I mean a black person, you're four times
more likely to be arrested for mere possession of marijuana. However,
in the city of Baltimore, you were six times more likely.
And what I said is we're not I'm never going
to be complicit in discriminatory enforcement of laws against poor
black and brown people. So my colleagues would call me morons.
You know, they were constantly attacking me, and this was
(07:59):
nothing knew because people are always going to be resistant
to change. I understood that. I recognized that, you know.
I started the first conviction integrity unit in the entire
state of Maryland, where we did reinvestigations into claims of
actual innocence, and under my tenure, we exonerated thirteen innocent
black men who collectively served three hundred years in prison
(08:20):
for crimes they didn't commit. I started a sentencing review
unit where we released and modified the sentence of over
sixty individuals that are the juvenile lifers and the elderly
prison population. And so when you're going against the status
quo and you're attempting to reduce the jail population and
in a system that has disproportionately impacted and has based
(08:42):
their business model off the backs of black and brown people,
I knew people were going to come for me. I
just didn't think that they were going to use this
system against me in a way in which I would
be wrongly convicted and face the same sort of reality
as all of those exgonneries.
Speaker 6 (09:00):
So this is the indictment that happened in twenty twenty two.
That was the first time they came for you.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
So the Feds actually for five years they had been
investigating every aspect of my life. So like they called
my taxes, my charitable donations, my campaign contributions. They went
to my children's dance instructors. They were sending the FBI
to my neighbor's homes at five in the morning interrogating them.
(09:27):
You imagine getting the FBI knocking at your door. We
want to talk to you about Marilyn Moseby. And they
issued subpoenas to all of the black churches five months before,
you know, a few months before my election. So what
do you think that's going to do. Everybody's gonna be like, oh,
I don't want to touch this with them ten foot pole, right,
And so it was created to isolate me, and so
(09:48):
I understood that it was coming, but I still knew
that I had done nothing wrong. And so to then
have you know, all of that be public and the
FEDS when they investigating you, typically you don't know it
until you're indicted. They made it very public because they
wanted to to to create this narrative that I was
somehow a villain and corrupt, And so I was shocked
(10:12):
when they came back and they indicted me of, you know,
withdrawing my own money, the money that I put away
every two weeks out of my in my retirement savings.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Baltimore deferred compensation retirement account.
Speaker 5 (10:26):
Yes, a deferred compensation account. And they said that and
made it out to be as if I was I
was utilizing PPP loans or COVID relief funding right like, no,
this is this is literally my money. What happened through
that happened, So I mean this. During COVID Congress came
out with a statute and Angelau if you wanted to
(10:46):
get into it, you could as well. But they came
out with the COVID Provision where the CARES Act under
the CARES Act, where they had not defined what an
adverse financial consequence was. Now it's a verse financial consequence
legally is different than a financial hardship. A financial hardship
has been defined, there is precedents already set for it,
(11:08):
but an adverse financial consequence has not been legally defined.
What I was attempting to do was to access my money,
and I didn't know how I was going to do it,
but I wanted to be able to access my money.
I called, you know, nationwide. They told me, hey, there's
this provision if you meet any of this criteria right
and again an adverse financial consequence, then there's a recorded.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Call of you calling nationwide where you asked is very
clear that she's asking for clarification on how this money
can be accessed and withdrawn.
Speaker 5 (11:39):
And what I was told was that I could access
my money. What the government put on the stand is
that David Randall, who's the executive director for the Deferred
Compensation Fund for Baltimore City, he said all you needed
to do was suffer a fifty dollars adversity and you
could access your money. Seven hundred and thirty nine people
(12:00):
in the city of Baltimore did the exact same thing
that I did. And I'm the only person in America
that has now been targeted, prosecuted, and convicted of doing
this and facing forty years in jail.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
I don't know if you know this part, but it's
actually in the United States. Overall, thirty five thousand people
did the same thing withdrawing from their retirement accounts. None
of them were prosecuted either, And I think that's an
important part of the thing that I think we got
to be mindful of today and on this show, is
Marilyn is still facing forty years in prison.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Hers.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Yeah, she's facing forty years in prison. Her sentencing is
on May twenty third. The judge, who, frankly, again this
is not Marilyn talking. This is me, to be very clear,
the judge who ruled against her defense team and mostly
on every motion and mostly on every objection, is responsible
for her sentencing. She cannot prosecute this case on air
(12:56):
or anywhere else because the judge could use that against her.
And so I think we've got to be mindful about
what we're saying and how we're saying it. What you're
saying is one thousand percent true, but she is a
former prosecutor and.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
She can't prosecute her.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Let me ask a question.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Right from a protector standpoint, we just got baking mincs that.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
So from what I'm hearing is as and you could
clarify this. So it's pretty much saying, Hey, the Feds
don't like her, and we're gonna find anything possible We
can to shut her down.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
You feel like you were targeted.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
Well, it's not just the FEDS, right, Like Angela has
already outlined, it was the prior administration. So that's Trump's administration.
That was very clear when I prosecuted those offices in
Freddie Gray, he said, I think she ought to prosecute herself.
William Barr, which was his attorney general, called out Baltimore
called out a number of other progressive what he said
(13:48):
were social justice reform prosecutors that were negating and diminishing
the rule of law. He said at a press conference
in February of twenty twenty. We will do anything to
any jurisdiction. The Department of Justice will do anything we
need to to ensure any jurisdiction or any individual politician
(14:08):
is conforming with the rule of law. They opened up
an investigation into me in October. The moment that Leo
Wise became the individual with the pattern of discriminatory investigation
against people of color came they opened that investigation. And
this is all related to this prior administration. What has
who has the power now to do something about that
(14:32):
is this administration. And that's where Angela can tell you
about what we have going on.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
I think the difficult part here is there's something very
simple that the Biden administration could have done at the outset,
and that is to review all of the Department of
Justice cases that were currently open, particularly in the Public
Corruption Unit. The reason for that is we know, because
he said it on air all the time, that he
(15:00):
would target and prosecute his political enemies. We also know
that he would pardon people before they were even charged
with anything if they were his friends. So it seems
to me that common sense would have been for the
Attorney General Merrit Garland, to say, let me take a
look at these cases. We have another friend, of course,
the co host of National Native Lampard, Andrew Gillum, who
(15:21):
was acquitted from federal charges but was under the same
it was the same circumstances. These prosecutors who are career
but are very political again Leo Wise, who donated to
Maryland's political opponents.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
There's a clear conflict.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Ask your question, miss Yeah. Now you compare all the
time and you talk about the body and administration and
how you hate when Charlemagne sometimes goes against them because
you know, you know, how they should be helping out people,
right and you go hard for the body and administration.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
You reading the comments, so you go.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Against the other side. I should say, I absolutely, I will.
I will always apply them if they're doing something right.
To be fair, I'm not against them.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I'm now in a situation of what's right right. It's
clear what's right, what they should be doing that's right,
and they don't do the right thing. How do you
feel about the Biden administration now?
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Well, I think that they need to be challenged.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
The thing that I think that we have to remember
as black people in this country is there's never been
an administration that we didn't have to push and challenge
to do the right thing for us. I think that
this is an administration that actually owes Maryland.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
And the reason for that is when Joe.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Biden was being called crime Bill Joe, or Kamala Harris
was being called the top cop, Marilyn went out and said,
let me make sure y'all understand that I modeled my
prosecutorial office after Kamalai.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
She went, he wasn't a prosecutor, Leonard. I understand you.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Use him as a reference. I'm just saying how people think.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Like anyway, The point is during the campaign. She stumped
for them when Kamala had a bill on how they
were gonna review recreational marijuana. Maryland was testifying before the
stay sent it. Because she was a forefront leader here.
I'm not saying that this is a political quid pro quote.
I'm saying, you owe it to justice to do the
(17:08):
right thing. You owe it to Maryland to protect her
and insulate her. Not just for Maryland, but for every
prosecutor who followed suit after Kamala Madame vice President, after
Kim Fox, Rachel like all of these black women prosecutors
are now under attack. That is not by an accident,
that is by design. They are trying to ensure that
(17:31):
other folks do not come forward and pursue progressive.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Justice in the ways that they have.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
These are the things that create DEI equitable opportunities for
our folks.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
If we don't do it this way.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
We end up overly incarcerated and under employed, under like,
not having the opportunities we deserve.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
I don't Boden forgot, Does he not remember all these things?
Reach to them now?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
You know we're reaching out to so we have a
petition out on the Color Change platform. Can also go
to Justice for Marilyn Moseby dot com and there you
will find this petition.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
It is to President Biden. There are letters that are
going out.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
There's a civil rights organization letter that just went out yesterday.
That is important for people to understand. This isn't just
some random people like coming together for Maryland. All of
the community is saying no, no, nah, this is the right
thing to do. Ben Crump has been a very vocal advocate,
and you know he's very supportive of the Biden Harris administration.
I think what we have to understand is it may
not be on his radar. He does have a genocide
(18:30):
that he's you know, watching and.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Having to engage it. I'm I'm saying I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
And this was asked of Kareine Jean Pierre at last
week's White House press briefing. You saw April Ryan ask
about it. It is on his radar now and so
now you can review the facts. Some of the pushback
has been that Maryland didn't fill out a part and application.
We were initially advised that the part and application didn't
apply to her because she hasn't been through a five
year waiting period from the sentencing or been.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Incarcerated for five years.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
The president, per the Constitution, has broad discretion on when
he can issue a pardon, and so we're going to
fill out the application, but also we expect a pardon.
Speaker 6 (19:08):
Why do we expect them to do the right thing
when you know the indictment against you came under a
Democratic US attorney, right Eric Eric Baron, and it's been
handled by a Biden nominated judge who is Lydia Kate Grigsby.
So why do you expect the Biden administration to do
the right thing? Our Democrats to do the.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Right She can't answer that. I would say to you this.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Please remember that these investigations began when Donald Trump was
in office. Please note that this absolutely should have fallen
on the Department of Justice. Tip again, go through these cases,
what are they really about?
Speaker 4 (19:46):
The fact that there are black.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Appointees doing things that they think will preserve their appointment
is not surprising. We have black folks like that in
corporate America all over the place that are like, what
can I do to make sure I'm below the radar?
Speaker 4 (20:00):
That's what is giving.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
And I think the other thing that we need to
note here is this judge was also appointed by President Obama,
but she was in claims court. She has never touched
a criminal case before this one. Her very first criminal
trial was Marilynd's case. She was not prepared. I'm not
coming at this woman's qualifications, but she is a civil litigator,
(20:24):
like even when she worked on Capitol Hill. I think
the other thing that's interesting from a timeline perspective is
Eric barn and Lydia Griggsby just so happened to be
working on Capitol Hill together on the same committee.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
It's called the Senate Judiciary Committee.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I just found that out that to me is also
an apparent conflict. So maybe she should have recused herself.
There are a number of reasons and grounds for appeal.
Maybe you can talk more about that, But I think
in terms of the politics of this, they're very tricky,
very interesting. It's made for a movie, honestly, but the
reality of it is this investigation began under Donald Trump,
and we have to acknowledge that some of these prosecutors
(21:00):
should be dismissed because they have political ambitions, political intentions,
political motives that actually end up causing graveheart in target.
Speaker 6 (21:08):
I mean, follow up, then, why do we expect Biden
to do the right thing when he's received nearly a
thousand pardon petitions during his term but was only granded
twenty four.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Yeah, I think it's a good question.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I think all we can do is hope for people
to do the right thing. You know, I don't know
if you have a different Please, this can be an
emotional plea.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
I mean it's I think that we have to come together.
I mean, I think this is the right thing to do.
I mean, we know that I've been targeted as a
result of the policies in my attempts to balance the
skills of justice. There's no other reason. They were looking
for any way to bring me down, and this was
the only thing that they felt like could stick. And
(21:47):
if we understood our power, we demanding. This is an
election year, guys, you need communities of color in order
to win this election. Again, a man that is touting
regression as making America great again, we've already seen the
type of destruction that he can impose on our country.
(22:08):
And if we don't wake up and we don't stand
for me. And I'm not saying this from a perspective
of yes, I need the support. I'm facing forty years
I have a thirteen and a fifteen year old daughter
that I don't want to be separated from. But this
is so much bigger than me. This is exactly what
Angelas said. This is about Kim Fox, This is about
Aaron miss Ayala. This is about Monique Wrrel, This is
(22:29):
about Tish James, This is about Fannie Willis. This is
about so many of us who have stood in the
line of fire, sacrificed ourselves, sacrificed our careers, sacrificed our
lives to do what's right, to equalize and to represent
the ideals of what this country is supposed to represent.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Do the people support you? Do the people in Baltimore
support you? Or they have an understanding. The reason I
ask is when people sometimes see state attorney automatically think, oh, well,
she prosecutes so many people, so let I handle herself right,
And the problem with that is you have so many
people that that will feel like state attorneys do to it.
A lot of times do the same thing that they're
(23:12):
doing to you, right, They feel like a lot of
times people get accused of things that they necessarily don't
do it. But a lot of times I'm sure, like yourself,
you don't have the opportunity. You can't go war for war.
You don't have the same type of war chests as
the state government has. There's no way in hell if
you don't have some pro bono there's no way that
you could possibly fight them because you and millions of
lawyer fees and most people can't. So what do they
(23:33):
usually do? They plea out and they have to do time.
You know that they're innocent. I'm sure they went in
your bank accounts, and I'm sure they close some of
your bank accounts because as soon as they go in
your banking account, the bank talk about they don't want
to do it anymore. They close your accounts. You got
to move money from money to money to money. You
can't even get a up if you wanted to even
buy a car, you probably couldn't even get a car
lolong because they're not going to prove you with a
car and your credit is all jacked up. So for
(23:56):
people out there that feel like they've been through it
and they haven't had the voice that you've had, what
do you say to those people to make sure that
they understand that you weren't that type of attorney. I
don't know if you were you weren't.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
So I think the people of Baltimore recognized that I
was not that typical sort of case processing attorney that
was thinking about only convictions. The mantra of my office
was justice over convictions, and that was something that I
took to heart. You know. I went to over three
thousand community association churches and schools throughout my tenure. I
had the first crime Control and Prevention division out of
a state Attorney's office where we touched more than twenty
(24:29):
thousand young people. Throughout my tenure. There were so many things.
I had community liaisons and representatives in the community. There
were so many things that I understood and recognized that
you have to be able to break down those barriers
of distrust.
Speaker 6 (24:42):
Right.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
We touched fifty two thousand victims and witnesses of crime.
We renovated the victim witness from There were so many
things that we did, and I think that fundamentally the
people of Baltimore understood that I was a different type
of prosecutor. It was justice over convictions. When you have
conservative media, right, and bias media that villainize you day
(25:06):
in and day out, twenty four hours a day. The
only thing that they're focusing on is you and they're
comparing you. Oh, this is just yet another corrupt Baltimore politician,
or better yet, just another black Baltimore City criminal. Right.
They put that into the minds of individuals, and they
did this for years upon years, and I couldn't say
(25:28):
anything about it because there was a gag order, right,
and I couldn't even defend myself. So, yes, the people
of Baltimore, a number of them have been hoodwinked. Right,
Malcolm X said it, like, you don't pay attention to
media will have you hate and the oppressed and loving
the oppressor. And so at the end of the day,
(25:51):
the one thing I can say, and yes, this has
been extremely isolating and painful because I did sacrifice so
much of myself to do what was right. But I
feel grateful because God even the conditions on top of
the federal government coming for me. Right, Like, I've had
to go through heartbreak and betrayal. I've lost everything from
(26:14):
my reputation, my election, my career, my marriage. It was
in a twenty five year relationship I had to walk
away from, Like my car. My grandmother is in hospice
right now. She raised me. There was so many other
sort of elements of like what is this God right?
But at the same time, I'm grateful because he brought
(26:35):
and the people that I loved unconditionally showed me the
conditions of their love. And at my lowest, at my lowest,
it was me and God, it was me and God.
I was walking out. The most sobering moment for me
was in the courtroom when I turned around that first
trial and I wanted to shield my girl, so I
(26:55):
didn't bring them. They see enough. My kids have been
confronted in school and they're like, are cruel? That's why
your mother's going to jail, right, And it's affected them.
So the first trial I was like, Okay, I'm gonna
get through this. And the most sobering moment was when
I turned around and there was nobody in the courtroom
and I prayed on it and I said, God, what
(27:17):
is this? And I came out. Media's asking me, what
are you? How you feel? How you feel? I feel blessed.
I feel blessed. And what I realized is that God
was with me. My angel guides were with me, my
ancestors are with me. I didn't need anybody. But that
second trial let me tell you, he sent perfect strangers
into my life. My mother and father didn't even show
(27:38):
up to trial, right, that was so sobering for me.
But he sent perfect strangers in my life that advocated
for me, that I referred to as my Earth angels
that I've taken on this cause. You know, Angela has
been phenomenal using her platform. I have local supporters Sheena
(27:58):
and so Sylvia and Bill and Tyrone and Hakey and
people who submitting. Let me tell you that second trial,
they were there. They got charter buses, they rolled up,
they were not playing. They were there every single day.
(28:19):
They've been on the radio advocating for me, and that
second trial. I brought my girls because I wanted them
to see, like all that we've gone through, you know,
and trying to just figure out how I'm gonna live,
like when you deplete your savings and I still have
a mortgage and now I have rent because I don't
have the house that I was living in in Like,
I brought my girls because I wanted them to see
(28:42):
what it feels like to have faith right and to
see strength in the face of adversity.
Speaker 6 (28:49):
What do you say to people who say the government
said what the government told the jury that you lied
on mortgage applications, and they said that you knew what
you submitted was not true, but you did it anyway,
seven times on two sets of loan paperwork, in part
the hight tax that can get a lower interest rate.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
It was so ridiculous. I mean, that allegation, all of it.
If you were in the courtroom and sitting in the
courtroom and being on the stand, I literally and I
didn't want to come off as obnoxious or anything, but
I'm making my own objections, like, Okay, well that was
asked and answered, but I'll go ahead and answer. They
didn't even know that I didn't. I wasn't the one
that filled out the mortgage application. My mortgage broker did.
(29:28):
Didn't find that out until we're sitting there in trial.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (29:31):
I mean, there's so many We have a great basis
for an appeal on so many different grounds, and my
attorneys feel extremely confident on that basis. But in the interim, right,
we can't appeal until after I'm sentenced. In seventeen days,
I'll be sentenced and I'm facing forty years in jail.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
The mortgage broker admitted to that yeah.
Speaker 5 (29:51):
The mortgage broker. She's reviewed, Angela has reviewed the trial transcripts.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
They don't want the mortgage broker though.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
They didn't matter, none of them.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
And I'm not suggesting that the government prosecuted him, but
are grounds for prosecuting mortgage brokers. It's just it's fascinating
to me that they only went after Maryland.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
And I think the.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Bigger issue is the Feds actually lied in their indictment.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Correct, they actually lied because they.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Say in there that she used a gift from her
husband at the time, Nick to secure a lower interest rate.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
How about the interest rate was locked three weeks before.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
That, So did you feel out the application the interest
rates lot?
Speaker 3 (30:28):
So what are we talking about? So what are we
talking about? And that was a suggestion by her broker.
So all of that is incorrect. And they didn't even
have to like come to account for that. They didn't
have to modify the indictment. So there are several things
that they've done that are wrong, that are unethical. Right,
I think that we should be looking into filing complaints
(30:49):
with the Office of Professional Responsibility at the United States
Department of Justice because a lot of this is unethical.
It's about scoring points on the board, and they don't.
So some folks would say, well, why are you focusing
on a part in it, not just ensuring that she
doesn't do any prison time If Marylynd, if this conviction stands,
Marilyn loses her law license. If you don't think that's
what those white boys want, you're in for a root awakening.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
That's all they want.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
They don't, and they've wanted it for a long time.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
They've wanted it since pretty gray.
Speaker 5 (31:15):
They've actually filed an emergency petition to immediately suspend my
law license. And this was before my second trial, right, Like,
you don't typically do that from a bar council until
after you've been sentenced. But they're setting a precedence in
my particular case where they want to immediately provoke my
(31:36):
law license and break me.
Speaker 6 (31:38):
You know, between the Mortgane broker admitting that he was
the one who filled out the application and then even
your ex husband he blamed himself for your legal troubles.
Speaker 5 (31:50):
So the one thing I will say, I'm you know,
clearly I was in a twenty five year relationship and
this brought out a lot of information that I didn't
no right, and it brought a huge chasm between our
relationship finance the number finances, definitely, and I can just
(32:11):
say that, you know, and like this was my college sweetheart, right,
Like I've been with my husband since I was eighteen
years old. And then the tragedy of like having the
disillusion of your marriage be in a federal courtroom where
I'm sitting on the opposite side being referred to as
the defendant as a result of some of the lies
that he told me. So, yeah, this has been painful.
(32:34):
This is incredibly painful.
Speaker 6 (32:35):
But if he admitted in a courtroom, which he did,
that he did it was his fault. He blames the
legal troubles on your legal troubles on him. And then
he please played did he plead guilty?
Speaker 5 (32:46):
No? No, no, no, my parents they didn't charge him.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
They want him.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
They wanted me, right, they wanted me.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
I don't understand.
Speaker 5 (32:52):
So, but the jury acquitted all the other ridiculous allegations
that they were making about me and all these you know,
other seven ledge false statements, which it's not false statements,
Like I said, they didn't even realize that I wasn't
the one that filled out the application form, you know,
as a result of his testimony, the jury acquitted me
on all of those charges. And I think that the
(33:13):
jury in the end compromised. And I don't want to
get too far into it, but like on all of
those other allegations, they said not guilty on six of
them and then came back with this.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
But they're not allowed to know how much time goes
is attached to each charge, So that one charge is
thirty years. That one charge the the payment basically the
earnest money gift from Nick because it was Maryland's money money.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
They make it seem like there's.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Some elaborate money laundering ski currently look at what the
what the Feds put forth, that's not it at all.
Like how many folks your spouse transfers you money on
cash app you like, forget you, then I'm mad at
you today and you send it back.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
That ain't money laundering.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
And if someone says I'm gonna this is actually gonna
be advantageous for you to go about it this way
because I can't utilize this money from this other account
with you because you share it with your daughter, she's
a miner. We can't take this money. How about your
husband do it? Marylyn Is like, okay, still preserving her marriage.
She's like, just in case he ain't got the money,
let me make sure he.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Got the money.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
That is not a crime, even withdrawing money from your
own retirement account is not a crime. Somehow they've created
this narrative, this fictional narrative that makes her seem like
a criminal, so that they can undermine her legacy, undermine
the work that she did as a progressive prosecutor, and
shame black women in this role, and most importantly, go
after her law license.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
What about the perjury charge?
Speaker 5 (34:38):
The perjury is related to me withdrawing the funds from
the COVID provision. Again, there's no basirement from my retirement account. Like,
they have not prosecuted or used this provision for anyone else,
as Angela has already indicated, I didn't even realized thirty
five thousand people in America have done the same thing
under this provision. The person in Baltimore City. I told
(35:01):
you seven hundred and thirty nine people did that in
the city of Baltimore. I am the only person in America,
in America that has been investigated, prosecuted, and now convicted.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
The thing to know about this too is the perjury
is about saying she experienced an adverse financial consequence. That
is Maryland's to know. And the problem is this judge again,
this is not Maryland talking, this is me. She told
the jury to rely on their own common sense. It
is in the court transcripts. That's not a jury instruction.
(35:32):
She told the jury that it is defined in the
Cares Act. An adverse financial consequence is defined in the
Cares Act. It is not is defined as an adverse
financial consequence. And as someone who has written legislation on
the hill, we ain't got time to define everything. So
you got to give them what the parameters are for
that in the jury instructures.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
That is your obligation as the judge.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
The worst thing I think about this is for Maryland
to have experienced an adverse financial consequences doesn't mean that
her salary took a hit, which is what DJ was
trying to tie. You're so change, yeah, right, But that's
not the case. It could be that she had to
start taking care of another family member who experienced hardship,
who was laid off, who was fur loughed, and we
all had those family members who were we all were like,
(36:12):
what is going to happen. It was a very scary time.
Mind you, all the members of Congress who were withdrawing
their same salaries but could get PPP loans, they weren't prosecuted,
and we not even talk about PPP Governor Hogan. This
brings me back to my point from five minutes ago.
Governor Hogan gave the Feds money to prosecute fraud related
(36:33):
to the Cares Act.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
You want to know when he did it? Shortly after
Maryland was indicted.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
That was by design so that they could ensure that
they did whatever they needed to lock her up. They
literally targeted that money to Cares Act related fraud.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
So if you receive at a part in Maryland, what
do you do moving forward?
Speaker 5 (36:54):
I mean, I'm able to live my life again. I'm
able to continue to fight for justice. I mean, this
is I don't know for let me tell you right now,
I'm a little jaded and right now at this moment,
but I'm not going to stop fighting for for for
justice and fighting for what's right in this country. I
think you know that for me, it is a calling.
(37:17):
So I just want to be able to to live again.
I want to be able to to be with my
babies and well they're not babies, my teenagers, and establish
my life again like I deserve to live. I think
i've I've sacrificed a lot to ensure that the skills
of justice are fair.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
So what's the call to action? What do you what
do we need people to do?
Speaker 3 (37:41):
We need people to sign this petition. Where is it
that it's on Justice from Maryland Moseby dot com. The
petition is calling on President Biden to issue a pardon,
to do the right thing, because sometimes even good people
need to be called to account and to be asked
to do the right thing. So we'll keep doing it, Leonard,
not today, not on this, not in the call to action.
(38:03):
And I think the other thing that's important for people
to do is to spread the word.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
Talk about this case.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
If you know that this is ridiculous, that someone is
facing forty years in prison, one for something they didn't do,
but especially something around around withdrawing money from their own
retirement account, speak up because if we don't, it could
happen to any of us. That is the point. So
I think those are the two calls to action for
those who our listeners. Justice from Marilyn moosby dot com.
(38:29):
Sign that part in petition, and also make sure that
you're sharing this story.
Speaker 6 (38:34):
I have faith in God, none in the Biden administration,
but it would be the right thing for them to do.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
We appreciate you for sharing your story. They're about to argue,
so let them argue.
Speaker 6 (38:45):
Faith in God, but none in the Biden administration, but
it would be the right thing for them to do.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
So hopefully God can move some hearts.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yeah, and sometimes and I know you've probably heard it
so much, and I know you probably hate hearing it,
but you know, somebody told me actually a couple months ago,
that sometimes God does that we don't understand and puse
people out of our life at the right time because
it could have got a lot worse. So that I
always think about things like that when things happen like this,
because that's the reason why. And there's no answer to why,
(39:11):
but maybe that is your why, you know.
Speaker 5 (39:13):
No, And I appreciate that the one thing that, like
I said, I got closer, this whole sort of crucible
made me wiser, stronger, and more empowered in my faith.
And I recognize that God will give his toughest battle
to his strongest soldiers, right, and so I'm so grateful.
That's why I started it with expressing my gratitude because like,
(39:34):
I've been at my lowest and he's gotten me through
and I'm still here and I'm still standing, and I
know that he will have the final say right at
the end of the day, and he does not forsake
the righteous, and I know that I've done nothing wrong,
and at the end of the day, I'm just I surrender.
I know who's in control.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Let's put it out there with the website again.
Speaker 4 (39:55):
Www dot Justice for Maryland. Mosby dot co.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Signed the petitions, right, It's Marilyn Moseby. It's the Breakfast Club.
Good morning, wake that ass up in the morning for
Breakfast Club.
Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club
Mourning everybody. It's dj NV just Hilarius Chlamagne the God.
We are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest
in the building. Yes, indeed be a form of Baltimore
City State Attorney Marilyn Moseby. Welcome, Thank you for having me,
Thank you. We also have Angela Raie here as well. Hello, Hello,
(00:21):
miss Ryan.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
While y'all both got on Cameouflood, were ready for it.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Was it wasn't even on purpose, being on one accord,
were ready for work.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
Taylor was too earlier.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Okay, okay, how are you though, Maryland? How are you feeling?
Speaker 5 (00:34):
I feel grateful. It's been really really hard. I mean,
we'll get into the case, but no, I have been
accused of doing something that I have not done. I'm innocent.
I'm facing forty years for withdrawing funds from my retirement savings.
The United States government, a global superpower is actually coming
(00:56):
for me. And so it's it's been hard and it's
been daunting, but I feel blessed because you know, I
have people in my corner like the Great Angela Rye right,
this bold, beautiful, brilliant black woman who is using her
platform to heighten what I'm going through. And I mean,
(01:19):
the only thing I could say is gratitude.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Let's start from the beginning of that. How did you
get to this position? Right? We seen Donald Trump throwing
darts at you, But how did you get to this position?
What happened? Let's start from the beginning.
Speaker 5 (01:31):
So when you say you start from the beginning, like
the attacks, I would say.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Well, you a Baltimore's City State's attorney, so you're doing
your job. And then it took a shift. When did
it start taking a ship? When did the government start
attacking you? And for what reason?
Speaker 5 (01:45):
So when I became the States Attorney, I was the
youngest chief prosecutor of any major American city in the country.
I won at the age of thirty four, and then
I beat an incumbent that outraised me or to one
by double digit percentage points. And so five months into
my first term, you know, unfortunately, a young black man
(02:05):
by the name of Freddie Carlos Gray Junior was killed
in the custody of police when he was unconstitutionally arrested,
placed into a metal wagon headfirst, feet shackled and handcuffed.
And it's pleased for medical attention were ignored. I followed
the facts with the law. I wouldn't do anything differently,
but I charged those police officers. And at that time,
(02:27):
I was one of the first prosecutors in the country
to attempt to hold police officers accountable for the death
of a black man. And so that wasn't happening in
this country, and so it immediately came with a great
deal of backlash. You know, I got hate mail and
death threats, people describing how then my now ex husband
would come out of our house and he would be killed,
(02:49):
and how no police officers would respond. You know, it
was a lot. This is pre Trump. This is you know,
I had the social media. It was off the chain.
This is before you know, you get kind of get
used to it now, but this had a red nation
rising where they were sending me all kinds of like
hate mail, and it was it was insane. But that's
(03:12):
when they started to come from my law license. They
were trying to, you know, do whatever they could to
break me. And what we learned out of that case,
those officers were acquitted, and in my opinion, the police
department sabotaged the case. But we learned our lessons. So
in twenty sixteen, when I dismissed it, we put out
(03:32):
a slate of police accountability reform proposals that were subsequently
adopted nationally after George Floyd. You can go on record
and you can see those same sort of proposals. But
we also learned our lessons in that during my tenure
we then subsequently prosecuted thirty three police officers.
Speaker 6 (03:52):
Successfully, not just you didn't go after just to Freddie
Gray police officer's, thirty three other police officers successfully.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
Anybody that preyed upon the vulnerabilities the citizens of Baltimore
had to deal with my office. You know, there was
a Gun Trace Task Force. This was one of the
largest police corruption scandals in the history of the country,
where for decades you had officers planting guns and drugs
on citizens, and so, understanding that the credibility of those
(04:20):
officers were at issue, you know, we drafted legislation, lobbied
for legislation, went against my colleagues across the state, and
we were able to pass a vacatr statute that, in
the interests of justice, gave prosecutors mechanisms to vacate the convictions.
Imagine you know, individuals like that making claims on citizens
(04:42):
and they're lying. So we had to review thousands of cases,
and ultimately, through that legislation that we we created, we
vacated the convictions of over eight hundred individuals.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
And that ain't gain you no fans in law enforcement
and police union.
Speaker 5 (04:57):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
I mean yeah, especially when the lead prosecutor on the
Gun Trace Task Force. I'm gonna say this part because
she shouldn't. The Gun Trace Task Force Leo Wise, which
is a lawyer who, before he went to the Maryland
US Attorney's Office, worked on Capitol Hill. All of his
targets were black people. He goes there, he prosecutes these
(05:18):
Gun Trace Task Force members, five of them are black,
three of them are white. He doesn't go after their boss.
Maryland says, oh, well, since we're you're finding corruption, we're
gonna make sure that we review all these cases. I
think that this man's ego didn't allow for him to
see that that was actually beneficial. If there was someone
who did wrong by the law, then the conviction should
be overturned. He took that as a personal affront. Not
(05:40):
only was he the lead prosecutor on the case against Maryland,
he donated to her political opponents that in and of
itself should be a material conflict that got him removed
from the cases against her. So they went after her.
They were looking for things over and over again. Donald
Trump said that he was going to go after the
protesters during the George Floyd unrest in this country and
(06:04):
targeted Baltimore is one of them. That's not the first
time he named Jick Maryland. Two months after well, they
wrote an op ed saying, if you come to our cities,
if you send the Fed to our cities, We're gonna
prosecute the Feds. Another bowl moved by her. Two months
after that, she was under federal investigation. That's not by accident.
That's not happenstance.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Now, before we.
Speaker 6 (06:23):
Get to the case, right, what other things were they
doing to you that you started to notice, like when
you realize, like, okay.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Theywn my ass.
Speaker 5 (06:31):
So I mean I understood and recognized that, you know,
challenging the status quo wasn't just my you know, attempts
to balance the skills of justice when it comes to
holding police officers accountable. There were a great deal of
other like reforms that we put into place, you guys
covered it. At one point, we stopped prosecuting low level
marijuana possession cases right in the City of Baltimore before
(06:55):
it was legalized, because there was an expectation that, you know,
that the guys in certain neighborhoods they could get the
substance use. And unfortunately, we wanted to criminalize black folks
even after we did decriminalize ten grams or less in marijuana,
and the police were responsible for issuing citations, ninety five
(07:16):
percent of the citations that they were issuing were issued
to one particular one out of nine police districts. That
district that they were issuing the citations happened to be
ninety five percent black and disproportionately impoverished. Right, And so
when we look at that fact that there's no disparate
use among white and black people when it comes to
mere possession of marijuana in America, if you're a white person,
(07:38):
you're you're I mean a black person, you're four times
more likely to be arrested for mere possession of marijuana. However,
in the city of Baltimore, you were six times more likely.
And what I said is we're not I'm never going
to be complicit in discriminatory enforcement of laws against poor
black and brown people. So my colleagues would call me morons.
You know, they were constantly attacking me, and this was
(07:59):
nothing knew because people are always going to be resistant
to change. I understood that. I recognized that, you know.
I started the first conviction integrity unit in the entire
state of Maryland, where we did reinvestigations into claims of
actual innocence, and under my tenure, we exonerated thirteen innocent
black men who collectively served three hundred years in prison
(08:20):
for crimes they didn't commit. I started a sentencing review
unit where we released and modified the sentence of over
sixty individuals that are the juvenile lifers and the elderly
prison population. And so when you're going against the status
quo and you're attempting to reduce the jail population and
in a system that has disproportionately impacted and has based
(08:42):
their business model off the backs of black and brown people,
I knew people were going to come for me. I
just didn't think that they were going to use this
system against me in a way in which I would
be wrongly convicted and face the same sort of reality
as all of those exgonneries.
Speaker 6 (09:00):
So this is the indictment that happened in twenty twenty two.
That was the first time they came for you.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
So the Feds actually for five years they had been
investigating every aspect of my life. So like they called
my taxes, my charitable donations, my campaign contributions. They went
to my children's dance instructors. They were sending the FBI
to my neighbor's homes at five in the morning interrogating them.
(09:27):
You imagine getting the FBI knocking at your door. We
want to talk to you about Marilyn Moseby. And they
issued subpoenas to all of the black churches five months before,
you know, a few months before my election. So what
do you think that's going to do. Everybody's gonna be like, oh,
I don't want to touch this with them ten foot pole, right,
And so it was created to isolate me, and so
(09:48):
I understood that it was coming, but I still knew
that I had done nothing wrong. And so to then
have you know, all of that be public and the
FEDS when they investigating you, typically you don't know it
until you're indicted. They made it very public because they
wanted to to to create this narrative that I was
somehow a villain and corrupt, And so I was shocked
(10:12):
when they came back and they indicted me of, you know,
withdrawing my own money, the money that I put away
every two weeks out of my in my retirement savings.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Baltimore deferred compensation retirement account.
Speaker 5 (10:26):
Yes, a deferred compensation account. And they said that and
made it out to be as if I was I
was utilizing PPP loans or COVID relief funding right like, no,
this is this is literally my money. What happened through
that happened, So I mean this. During COVID Congress came
out with a statute and Angelau if you wanted to
(10:46):
get into it, you could as well. But they came
out with the COVID Provision where the CARES Act under
the CARES Act, where they had not defined what an
adverse financial consequence was. Now it's a verse financial consequence
legally is different than a financial hardship. A financial hardship
has been defined, there is precedents already set for it,
(11:08):
but an adverse financial consequence has not been legally defined.
What I was attempting to do was to access my money,
and I didn't know how I was going to do it,
but I wanted to be able to access my money.
I called, you know, nationwide. They told me, hey, there's
this provision if you meet any of this criteria right
and again an adverse financial consequence, then there's a recorded.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Call of you calling nationwide where you asked is very
clear that she's asking for clarification on how this money
can be accessed and withdrawn.
Speaker 5 (11:39):
And what I was told was that I could access
my money. What the government put on the stand is
that David Randall, who's the executive director for the Deferred
Compensation Fund for Baltimore City, he said all you needed
to do was suffer a fifty dollars adversity and you
could access your money. Seven hundred and thirty nine people
(12:00):
in the city of Baltimore did the exact same thing
that I did. And I'm the only person in America
that has now been targeted, prosecuted, and convicted of doing
this and facing forty years in jail.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
I don't know if you know this part, but it's
actually in the United States. Overall, thirty five thousand people
did the same thing withdrawing from their retirement accounts. None
of them were prosecuted either, And I think that's an
important part of the thing that I think we got
to be mindful of today and on this show, is
Marilyn is still facing forty years in prison.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Hers.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Yeah, she's facing forty years in prison. Her sentencing is
on May twenty third. The judge, who, frankly, again this
is not Marilyn talking. This is me, to be very clear,
the judge who ruled against her defense team and mostly
on every motion and mostly on every objection, is responsible
for her sentencing. She cannot prosecute this case on air
(12:56):
or anywhere else because the judge could use that against her.
And so I think we've got to be mindful about
what we're saying and how we're saying it. What you're
saying is one thousand percent true, but she is a
former prosecutor and.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
She can't prosecute her.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Let me ask a question.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
Right from a protector standpoint, we just got baking mincs that.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
So from what I'm hearing is as and you could
clarify this. So it's pretty much saying, Hey, the Feds
don't like her, and we're gonna find anything possible We
can to shut her down.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
You feel like you were targeted.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
Well, it's not just the FEDS, right, Like Angela has
already outlined, it was the prior administration. So that's Trump's administration.
That was very clear when I prosecuted those offices in
Freddie Gray, he said, I think she ought to prosecute herself.
William Barr, which was his attorney general, called out Baltimore
called out a number of other progressive what he said
(13:48):
were social justice reform prosecutors that were negating and diminishing
the rule of law. He said at a press conference
in February of twenty twenty. We will do anything to
any jurisdiction. The Department of Justice will do anything we
need to to ensure any jurisdiction or any individual politician
(14:08):
is conforming with the rule of law. They opened up
an investigation into me in October. The moment that Leo
Wise became the individual with the pattern of discriminatory investigation
against people of color came they opened that investigation. And
this is all related to this prior administration. What has
who has the power now to do something about that
(14:32):
is this administration. And that's where Angela can tell you
about what we have going on.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
I think the difficult part here is there's something very
simple that the Biden administration could have done at the outset,
and that is to review all of the Department of
Justice cases that were currently open, particularly in the Public
Corruption Unit. The reason for that is we know, because
he said it on air all the time, that he
(15:00):
would target and prosecute his political enemies. We also know
that he would pardon people before they were even charged
with anything if they were his friends. So it seems
to me that common sense would have been for the
Attorney General Merrit Garland, to say, let me take a
look at these cases. We have another friend, of course,
the co host of National Native Lampard, Andrew Gillum, who
(15:21):
was acquitted from federal charges but was under the same
it was the same circumstances. These prosecutors who are career
but are very political again Leo Wise, who donated to
Maryland's political opponents.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
There's a clear conflict.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Ask your question, miss Yeah. Now you compare all the
time and you talk about the body and administration and
how you hate when Charlemagne sometimes goes against them because
you know, you know, how they should be helping out people,
right and you go hard for the body and administration.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
You reading the comments, so you go.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Against the other side. I should say, I absolutely, I will.
I will always apply them if they're doing something right.
To be fair, I'm not against them.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I'm now in a situation of what's right right. It's
clear what's right, what they should be doing that's right,
and they don't do the right thing. How do you
feel about the Biden administration now?
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Well, I think that they need to be challenged.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
The thing that I think that we have to remember
as black people in this country is there's never been
an administration that we didn't have to push and challenge
to do the right thing for us. I think that
this is an administration that actually owes Maryland.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
And the reason for that is when Joe.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Biden was being called crime Bill Joe, or Kamala Harris
was being called the top cop, Marilyn went out and said,
let me make sure y'all understand that I modeled my
prosecutorial office after Kamalai.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
She went, he wasn't a prosecutor, Leonard. I understand you.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Use him as a reference. I'm just saying how people think.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Like anyway, The point is during the campaign. She stumped
for them when Kamala had a bill on how they
were gonna review recreational marijuana. Maryland was testifying before the
stay sent it. Because she was a forefront leader here.
I'm not saying that this is a political quid pro quote.
I'm saying, you owe it to justice to do the
(17:08):
right thing. You owe it to Maryland to protect her
and insulate her. Not just for Maryland, but for every
prosecutor who followed suit after Kamala Madame vice President, after
Kim Fox, Rachel like all of these black women prosecutors
are now under attack. That is not by an accident,
that is by design. They are trying to ensure that
(17:31):
other folks do not come forward and pursue progressive.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
Justice in the ways that they have.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
These are the things that create DEI equitable opportunities for
our folks.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
If we don't do it this way.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
We end up overly incarcerated and under employed, under like,
not having the opportunities we deserve.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
I don't Boden forgot, Does he not remember all these things?
Reach to them now?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
You know we're reaching out to so we have a
petition out on the Color Change platform. Can also go
to Justice for Marilyn Moseby dot com and there you
will find this petition.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
It is to President Biden. There are letters that are
going out.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
There's a civil rights organization letter that just went out yesterday.
That is important for people to understand. This isn't just
some random people like coming together for Maryland. All of
the community is saying no, no, nah, this is the right
thing to do. Ben Crump has been a very vocal advocate,
and you know he's very supportive of the Biden Harris administration.
I think what we have to understand is it may
not be on his radar. He does have a genocide
(18:30):
that he's you know, watching and.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
Having to engage it. I'm I'm saying I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
And this was asked of Kareine Jean Pierre at last
week's White House press briefing. You saw April Ryan ask
about it. It is on his radar now and so
now you can review the facts. Some of the pushback
has been that Maryland didn't fill out a part and application.
We were initially advised that the part and application didn't
apply to her because she hasn't been through a five
year waiting period from the sentencing or been.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Incarcerated for five years.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
The president, per the Constitution, has broad discretion on when
he can issue a pardon, and so we're going to
fill out the application, but also we expect a pardon.
Speaker 6 (19:08):
Why do we expect them to do the right thing
when you know the indictment against you came under a
Democratic US attorney, right Eric Eric Baron, and it's been
handled by a Biden nominated judge who is Lydia Kate Grigsby.
So why do you expect the Biden administration to do
the right thing? Our Democrats to do the.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Right She can't answer that. I would say to you this.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Please remember that these investigations began when Donald Trump was
in office. Please note that this absolutely should have fallen
on the Department of Justice. Tip again, go through these cases,
what are they really about?
Speaker 4 (19:46):
The fact that there are black.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Appointees doing things that they think will preserve their appointment
is not surprising. We have black folks like that in
corporate America all over the place that are like, what
can I do to make sure I'm below the radar?
Speaker 4 (20:00):
That's what is giving.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
And I think the other thing that we need to
note here is this judge was also appointed by President Obama,
but she was in claims court. She has never touched
a criminal case before this one. Her very first criminal
trial was Marilynd's case. She was not prepared. I'm not
coming at this woman's qualifications, but she is a civil litigator,
(20:24):
like even when she worked on Capitol Hill. I think
the other thing that's interesting from a timeline perspective is
Eric barn and Lydia Griggsby just so happened to be
working on Capitol Hill together on the same committee.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
It's called the Senate Judiciary Committee.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I just found that out that to me is also
an apparent conflict. So maybe she should have recused herself.
There are a number of reasons and grounds for appeal.
Maybe you can talk more about that, But I think
in terms of the politics of this, they're very tricky,
very interesting. It's made for a movie, honestly, but the
reality of it is this investigation began under Donald Trump,
and we have to acknowledge that some of these prosecutors
(21:00):
should be dismissed because they have political ambitions, political intentions,
political motives that actually end up causing graveheart in target.
Speaker 6 (21:08):
I mean, follow up, then, why do we expect Biden
to do the right thing when he's received nearly a
thousand pardon petitions during his term but was only granded
twenty four.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Yeah, I think it's a good question.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I think all we can do is hope for people
to do the right thing. You know, I don't know
if you have a different Please, this can be an
emotional plea.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
I mean it's I think that we have to come together.
I mean, I think this is the right thing to do.
I mean, we know that I've been targeted as a
result of the policies in my attempts to balance the
skills of justice. There's no other reason. They were looking
for any way to bring me down, and this was
the only thing that they felt like could stick. And
(21:47):
if we understood our power, we demanding. This is an
election year, guys, you need communities of color in order
to win this election. Again, a man that is touting
regression as making America great again, we've already seen the
type of destruction that he can impose on our country.
(22:08):
And if we don't wake up and we don't stand
for me. And I'm not saying this from a perspective
of yes, I need the support. I'm facing forty years
I have a thirteen and a fifteen year old daughter
that I don't want to be separated from. But this
is so much bigger than me. This is exactly what
Angelas said. This is about Kim Fox, This is about
Aaron miss Ayala. This is about Monique Wrrel, This is
(22:29):
about Tish James, This is about Fannie Willis. This is
about so many of us who have stood in the
line of fire, sacrificed ourselves, sacrificed our careers, sacrificed our
lives to do what's right, to equalize and to represent
the ideals of what this country is supposed to represent.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Do the people support you? Do the people in Baltimore
support you? Or they have an understanding. The reason I
ask is when people sometimes see state attorney automatically think, oh, well,
she prosecutes so many people, so let I handle herself right,
And the problem with that is you have so many
people that that will feel like state attorneys do to it.
A lot of times do the same thing that they're
(23:12):
doing to you, right, They feel like a lot of
times people get accused of things that they necessarily don't
do it. But a lot of times I'm sure, like yourself,
you don't have the opportunity. You can't go war for war.
You don't have the same type of war chests as
the state government has. There's no way in hell if
you don't have some pro bono there's no way that
you could possibly fight them because you and millions of
lawyer fees and most people can't. So what do they
(23:33):
usually do? They plea out and they have to do time.
You know that they're innocent. I'm sure they went in
your bank accounts, and I'm sure they close some of
your bank accounts because as soon as they go in
your banking account, the bank talk about they don't want
to do it anymore. They close your accounts. You got
to move money from money to money to money. You
can't even get a up if you wanted to even
buy a car, you probably couldn't even get a car
lolong because they're not going to prove you with a
car and your credit is all jacked up. So for
(23:56):
people out there that feel like they've been through it
and they haven't had the voice that you've had, what
do you say to those people to make sure that
they understand that you weren't that type of attorney. I
don't know if you were you weren't.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
So I think the people of Baltimore recognized that I
was not that typical sort of case processing attorney that
was thinking about only convictions. The mantra of my office
was justice over convictions, and that was something that I
took to heart. You know. I went to over three
thousand community association churches and schools throughout my tenure. I
had the first crime Control and Prevention division out of
a state Attorney's office where we touched more than twenty
(24:29):
thousand young people. Throughout my tenure. There were so many things.
I had community liaisons and representatives in the community. There
were so many things that I understood and recognized that
you have to be able to break down those barriers
of distrust.
Speaker 6 (24:42):
Right.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
We touched fifty two thousand victims and witnesses of crime.
We renovated the victim witness from There were so many
things that we did, and I think that fundamentally the
people of Baltimore understood that I was a different type
of prosecutor. It was justice over convictions. When you have
conservative media, right, and bias media that villainize you day
(25:06):
in and day out, twenty four hours a day. The
only thing that they're focusing on is you and they're
comparing you. Oh, this is just yet another corrupt Baltimore politician,
or better yet, just another black Baltimore City criminal. Right.
They put that into the minds of individuals, and they
did this for years upon years, and I couldn't say
(25:28):
anything about it because there was a gag order, right,
and I couldn't even defend myself. So, yes, the people
of Baltimore, a number of them have been hoodwinked. Right,
Malcolm X said it, like, you don't pay attention to
media will have you hate and the oppressed and loving
the oppressor. And so at the end of the day,
(25:51):
the one thing I can say, and yes, this has
been extremely isolating and painful because I did sacrifice so
much of myself to do what was right. But I
feel grateful because God even the conditions on top of
the federal government coming for me. Right, Like, I've had
to go through heartbreak and betrayal. I've lost everything from
(26:14):
my reputation, my election, my career, my marriage. It was
in a twenty five year relationship I had to walk
away from, Like my car. My grandmother is in hospice
right now. She raised me. There was so many other
sort of elements of like what is this God right?
But at the same time, I'm grateful because he brought
(26:35):
and the people that I loved unconditionally showed me the
conditions of their love. And at my lowest, at my lowest,
it was me and God, it was me and God.
I was walking out. The most sobering moment for me
was in the courtroom when I turned around that first
trial and I wanted to shield my girl, so I
(26:55):
didn't bring them. They see enough. My kids have been
confronted in school and they're like, are cruel? That's why
your mother's going to jail, right, And it's affected them.
So the first trial I was like, Okay, I'm gonna
get through this. And the most sobering moment was when
I turned around and there was nobody in the courtroom
and I prayed on it and I said, God, what
(27:17):
is this? And I came out. Media's asking me, what
are you? How you feel? How you feel? I feel blessed.
I feel blessed. And what I realized is that God
was with me. My angel guides were with me, my
ancestors are with me. I didn't need anybody. But that
second trial let me tell you, he sent perfect strangers
into my life. My mother and father didn't even show
(27:38):
up to trial, right, that was so sobering for me.
But he sent perfect strangers in my life that advocated
for me, that I referred to as my Earth angels
that I've taken on this cause. You know, Angela has
been phenomenal using her platform. I have local supporters Sheena
(27:58):
and so Sylvia and Bill and Tyrone and Hakey and
people who submitting. Let me tell you that second trial,
they were there. They got charter buses, they rolled up,
they were not playing. They were there every single day.
(28:19):
They've been on the radio advocating for me, and that
second trial. I brought my girls because I wanted them
to see, like all that we've gone through, you know,
and trying to just figure out how I'm gonna live,
like when you deplete your savings and I still have
a mortgage and now I have rent because I don't
have the house that I was living in in Like,
I brought my girls because I wanted them to see
(28:42):
what it feels like to have faith right and to
see strength in the face of adversity.
Speaker 6 (28:49):
What do you say to people who say the government
said what the government told the jury that you lied
on mortgage applications, and they said that you knew what
you submitted was not true, but you did it anyway,
seven times on two sets of loan paperwork, in part
the hight tax that can get a lower interest rate.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
It was so ridiculous. I mean, that allegation, all of it.
If you were in the courtroom and sitting in the
courtroom and being on the stand, I literally and I
didn't want to come off as obnoxious or anything, but
I'm making my own objections, like, Okay, well that was
asked and answered, but I'll go ahead and answer. They
didn't even know that I didn't. I wasn't the one
that filled out the mortgage application. My mortgage broker did.
(29:28):
Didn't find that out until we're sitting there in trial.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (29:31):
I mean, there's so many We have a great basis
for an appeal on so many different grounds, and my
attorneys feel extremely confident on that basis. But in the interim, right,
we can't appeal until after I'm sentenced. In seventeen days,
I'll be sentenced and I'm facing forty years in jail.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
The mortgage broker admitted to that yeah.
Speaker 5 (29:51):
The mortgage broker. She's reviewed, Angela has reviewed the trial transcripts.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
They don't want the mortgage broker though.
Speaker 5 (29:59):
They didn't matter, none of them.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
And I'm not suggesting that the government prosecuted him, but
are grounds for prosecuting mortgage brokers. It's just it's fascinating
to me that they only went after Maryland.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
And I think the.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Bigger issue is the Feds actually lied in their indictment.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
Correct, they actually lied because they.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Say in there that she used a gift from her
husband at the time, Nick to secure a lower interest rate.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
How about the interest rate was locked three weeks before.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
That, So did you feel out the application the interest
rates lot?
Speaker 3 (30:28):
So what are we talking about? So what are we
talking about? And that was a suggestion by her broker.
So all of that is incorrect. And they didn't even
have to like come to account for that. They didn't
have to modify the indictment. So there are several things
that they've done that are wrong, that are unethical. Right,
I think that we should be looking into filing complaints
(30:49):
with the Office of Professional Responsibility at the United States
Department of Justice because a lot of this is unethical.
It's about scoring points on the board, and they don't.
So some folks would say, well, why are you focusing
on a part in it, not just ensuring that she
doesn't do any prison time If Marylynd, if this conviction stands,
Marilyn loses her law license. If you don't think that's
what those white boys want, you're in for a root awakening.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
That's all they want.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
They don't, and they've wanted it for a long time.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
They've wanted it since pretty gray.
Speaker 5 (31:15):
They've actually filed an emergency petition to immediately suspend my
law license. And this was before my second trial, right, Like,
you don't typically do that from a bar council until
after you've been sentenced. But they're setting a precedence in
my particular case where they want to immediately provoke my
(31:36):
law license and break me.
Speaker 6 (31:38):
You know, between the Mortgane broker admitting that he was
the one who filled out the application and then even
your ex husband he blamed himself for your legal troubles.
Speaker 5 (31:50):
So the one thing I will say, I'm you know,
clearly I was in a twenty five year relationship and
this brought out a lot of information that I didn't
no right, and it brought a huge chasm between our
relationship finance the number finances, definitely, and I can just
(32:11):
say that, you know, and like this was my college sweetheart, right,
Like I've been with my husband since I was eighteen
years old. And then the tragedy of like having the
disillusion of your marriage be in a federal courtroom where
I'm sitting on the opposite side being referred to as
the defendant as a result of some of the lies
that he told me. So, yeah, this has been painful.
(32:34):
This is incredibly painful.
Speaker 6 (32:35):
But if he admitted in a courtroom, which he did,
that he did it was his fault. He blames the
legal troubles on your legal troubles on him. And then
he please played did he plead guilty?
Speaker 5 (32:46):
No? No, no, no, my parents they didn't charge him.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
They want him.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
They wanted me, right, they wanted me.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
I don't understand.
Speaker 5 (32:52):
So, but the jury acquitted all the other ridiculous allegations
that they were making about me and all these you know,
other seven ledge false statements, which it's not false statements,
Like I said, they didn't even realize that I wasn't
the one that filled out the application form, you know,
as a result of his testimony, the jury acquitted me
on all of those charges. And I think that the
(33:13):
jury in the end compromised. And I don't want to
get too far into it, but like on all of
those other allegations, they said not guilty on six of
them and then came back with this.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
But they're not allowed to know how much time goes
is attached to each charge, So that one charge is
thirty years. That one charge the the payment basically the
earnest money gift from Nick because it was Maryland's money money.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
They make it seem like there's.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Some elaborate money laundering ski currently look at what the
what the Feds put forth, that's not it at all.
Like how many folks your spouse transfers you money on
cash app you like, forget you, then I'm mad at
you today and you send it back.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
That ain't money laundering.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
And if someone says I'm gonna this is actually gonna
be advantageous for you to go about it this way
because I can't utilize this money from this other account
with you because you share it with your daughter, she's
a miner. We can't take this money. How about your
husband do it? Marylyn Is like, okay, still preserving her marriage.
She's like, just in case he ain't got the money,
let me make sure he.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Got the money.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
That is not a crime, even withdrawing money from your
own retirement account is not a crime. Somehow they've created
this narrative, this fictional narrative that makes her seem like
a criminal, so that they can undermine her legacy, undermine
the work that she did as a progressive prosecutor, and
shame black women in this role, and most importantly, go
after her law license.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
What about the perjury charge?
Speaker 5 (34:38):
The perjury is related to me withdrawing the funds from
the COVID provision. Again, there's no basirement from my retirement account. Like,
they have not prosecuted or used this provision for anyone else,
as Angela has already indicated, I didn't even realized thirty
five thousand people in America have done the same thing
under this provision. The person in Baltimore City. I told
(35:01):
you seven hundred and thirty nine people did that in
the city of Baltimore. I am the only person in America,
in America that has been investigated, prosecuted, and now convicted.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
The thing to know about this too is the perjury
is about saying she experienced an adverse financial consequence. That
is Maryland's to know. And the problem is this judge again,
this is not Maryland talking, this is me. She told
the jury to rely on their own common sense. It
is in the court transcripts. That's not a jury instruction.
(35:32):
She told the jury that it is defined in the
Cares Act. An adverse financial consequence is defined in the
Cares Act. It is not is defined as an adverse
financial consequence. And as someone who has written legislation on
the hill, we ain't got time to define everything. So
you got to give them what the parameters are for
that in the jury instructures.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
That is your obligation as the judge.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
The worst thing I think about this is for Maryland
to have experienced an adverse financial consequences doesn't mean that
her salary took a hit, which is what DJ was
trying to tie. You're so change, yeah, right, But that's
not the case. It could be that she had to
start taking care of another family member who experienced hardship,
who was laid off, who was fur loughed, and we
all had those family members who were we all were like,
(36:12):
what is going to happen. It was a very scary time.
Mind you, all the members of Congress who were withdrawing
their same salaries but could get PPP loans, they weren't prosecuted,
and we not even talk about PPP Governor Hogan. This
brings me back to my point from five minutes ago.
Governor Hogan gave the Feds money to prosecute fraud related
(36:33):
to the Cares Act.
Speaker 4 (36:35):
You want to know when he did it? Shortly after
Maryland was indicted.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
That was by design so that they could ensure that
they did whatever they needed to lock her up. They
literally targeted that money to Cares Act related fraud.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
So if you receive at a part in Maryland, what
do you do moving forward?
Speaker 5 (36:54):
I mean, I'm able to live my life again. I'm
able to continue to fight for justice. I mean, this
is I don't know for let me tell you right now,
I'm a little jaded and right now at this moment,
but I'm not going to stop fighting for for for
justice and fighting for what's right in this country. I
think you know that for me, it is a calling.
(37:17):
So I just want to be able to to live again.
I want to be able to to be with my
babies and well they're not babies, my teenagers, and establish
my life again like I deserve to live. I think
i've I've sacrificed a lot to ensure that the skills
of justice are fair.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
So what's the call to action? What do you what
do we need people to do?
Speaker 3 (37:41):
We need people to sign this petition. Where is it
that it's on Justice from Maryland Moseby dot com. The
petition is calling on President Biden to issue a pardon,
to do the right thing, because sometimes even good people
need to be called to account and to be asked
to do the right thing. So we'll keep doing it, Leonard,
not today, not on this, not in the call to action.
(38:03):
And I think the other thing that's important for people
to do is to spread the word.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
Talk about this case.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
If you know that this is ridiculous, that someone is
facing forty years in prison, one for something they didn't do,
but especially something around around withdrawing money from their own
retirement account, speak up because if we don't, it could
happen to any of us. That is the point. So
I think those are the two calls to action for
those who our listeners. Justice from Marilyn moosby dot com.
(38:29):
Sign that part in petition, and also make sure that
you're sharing this story.
Speaker 6 (38:34):
I have faith in God, none in the Biden administration,
but it would be the right thing for them to do.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
We appreciate you for sharing your story. They're about to argue,
so let them argue.
Speaker 6 (38:45):
Faith in God, but none in the Biden administration, but
it would be the right thing for them to do.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
So hopefully God can move some hearts.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yeah, and sometimes and I know you've probably heard it
so much, and I know you probably hate hearing it,
but you know, somebody told me actually a couple months ago,
that sometimes God does that we don't understand and puse
people out of our life at the right time because
it could have got a lot worse. So that I
always think about things like that when things happen like this,
because that's the reason why. And there's no answer to why,
(39:11):
but maybe that is your why, you know.
Speaker 5 (39:13):
No, And I appreciate that the one thing that, like
I said, I got closer, this whole sort of crucible
made me wiser, stronger, and more empowered in my faith.
And I recognize that God will give his toughest battle
to his strongest soldiers, right, and so I'm so grateful.
That's why I started it with expressing my gratitude because like,
(39:34):
I've been at my lowest and he's gotten me through
and I'm still here and I'm still standing, and I
know that he will have the final say right at
the end of the day, and he does not forsake
the righteous, and I know that I've done nothing wrong,
and at the end of the day, I'm just I surrender.
I know who's in control.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Let's put it out there with the website again.
Speaker 4 (39:55):
Www dot Justice for Maryland. Mosby dot co.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Signed the petitions, right, It's Marilyn Moseby. It's the Breakfast Club.
Good morning, wake that ass up in the morning for
Breakfast Club.
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