February 15, 2024 • 45 mins
Last week we revisited our conversation with Usher to celebrate his Super Bowl performance and the incredible career resurgence he’s had over the last couple of years. In thinking about our catalog, I thought there was another conversation worth revisiting - Malcolm Gladwell speaking with Ziggy Marley about the cultural influence the tiny country of Jamaica and Ziggy’s dad, Bob Marley, have had over the last half a century.
The Bob Marley biopic One Love was released in theaters yesterday. I hope anyone familiar with Bob Marley will go see it at some point. If only to keep the conversation about his songs and his political thinking alive and to guard against his legacy becoming further whitewashed and commercialized.
So listen Malcolm’s conversation with Ziggy from a couple of years back, see the movie and then spend some time with the Marley catalog and with some of the other great music to come out of that era from Prince Buster to Alton Ellis and beyond.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Last week we went back and replayed my conversation with
Usher to celebrate his Super Bowl performance and the incredible
career resurgence he's had over the last couple of years.
In thinking about our back catalog of episodes, I thought
there was another conversation worth revisiting, Malcolm Gladwell speaking with
Ziggy Marley about the cultural influence the tiny country of
Jamaica and Ziggy's dad, Bob Marley, have had over the
(00:41):
last half a century. The Bob Marley bio Pick One Love,
was released in theaters yesterday. I hope anyone familiar with
the Bob Marley name or his music will go see
it at some point if I wanted to keep the
conversation about his songs and his political thinking alive and
to guard against his legacy becoming further Whitewashington commercialized, which
feels increasingly inevitable as the years after his death continue on.
(01:03):
So have a listen to Malcolm's conversation with Ziggy from
a couple of years back, see the movie Spend some
Time with Males catalog and some of the other great
Jamaican music from that time, from Prince Buster to Alton
Ellis and beyond. This is broken record liner notes for
the digital age.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I'm justin Richmond.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Here's Malcolm Gladwell and Ziggy Marley. This conversation was taped
live as part of the Live Talks Los Angeles series.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
This book that you've done, with all of these photos
of your father, it had a kind of personal residence
for me because, as you may know, my mom is
Jamaican and when I was growing up in the seventies,
we would go to Jamaica every year every Christmas and
all these so many of these photos are from the
Jamaica that I remember as a kid. It's funny, It's like,
(01:53):
I mean, it's very personal for you, but in this
weird indirect way, it's personal for me too. You know
how when you look at a photo of Jamaica, you
can smell Jamaica. I could smell I could smell Jamaica again,
It's this lovely like took me back to my childhood.
What led you to want to do this book?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
So over the years we've we've collected a lot of
photographs of Bob. I'm from different photographers and stuff like that.
And you know, usually I think the photographs you say
a Bob are iconic photographs. You know, you always see
the iconic images, and so for this, we came upon
the seven the fifth at birthday anniversary, and I felt like,
(02:33):
let's do some special for the seven fifth. Let's take
some of these photos archives and put together a photobook.
The family has never done one before, other people have
done one. Then I'm totally understand. Always said when you
talk about you smell Jamaica the photos because during the book,
like it brought me back to that time too, you know,
looking at it just it's like it's such a it's
(02:54):
such a real experience, a real thing that when I
was looking at the photos, it, you know, everything just
kind of came back to me.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, when you say, I was just thinking logistically, you said,
this is really the family's book. There's so many of you.
How on earth did you guys? Did you guys coordinate
picking all of these photos? Did you have like a
family counsel where you all sat down and went through them?
Speaker 4 (03:20):
No?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
No, well I was given a task. I was given
that responsibility of going through the photos.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
That's all we do.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Kind of delegate responsibilities. Yeah, you know, everybody, this is
your project, your you have you have the family's approval
and blessing.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Is your project, go ahead and do it, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, Well, tell me about your your memories of your father.
You so, you're born in sixty eight, so you when
he dies, you're you're just a teenager.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Yeah, it was going on thirteen.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, tell me tell me a little bit about what
you remember of your father.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Well everything, I mean, they's not'ing to forget really, because
the limited experience we've had with him, you know, everything
was memorable and left everlasting impact on my psyche. You know,
I said everything it was like going to school, but
a different type of school, you know, I said, like
so growing not put bob. I mean, there was different elements.
(04:11):
It was fun side, happicide and clear on the children.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
We will travel to the countryside, this hometown every now
and again. I didn't fun. I remember those days. They
were no seats.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
He would have been a lap in the front seat
or seat no no, no ear back.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, yeah, I believe it. I remember that Jamaica in
the back of the Volkswagen Beetle driven by my uncle.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
My my mom had one of those two. She had
one of those Beatles too.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Yeah, But I mean and then there was a serious side.
It was what I saw was a lot of discipline.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
This money.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
I love work hard this mane, I love discipline, this money.
He's from the countryside and he's so rute rooted in
his humility that for him to call back to his
home towne I go back to trenchtone in the ghetto.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
It was like, it's just it's just Bob. This is
just Bob. It's not like Bob.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
The the superstar or whatever, you know, It's just bib So.
I mean lots of socle, lots of football, socle music,
socle music, and the spiritual side of it was very
powerful thing. And as love having Bible. And he would
take me and my brother Steve into this what you
call him. It's like service, like you know people got
(05:26):
to church service, or people go to the synagague or
the masque. When we had these thing called naia bingis
and we would it would be like some weird time
at night.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
And it was such a mystical.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
That's why I said it left such an impression on
me as a child, because it was such a the
not being was such a mystical thing, you know, smoke, fire, drums, singing,
chanting and a whole spiritual vibe, you know. So yeah,
you know, we go up in that kind of environment
where every memory really is stuck with us, and the
memory is stuck with us more than just a memory.
(05:56):
It stuck with us as like I experience that has
kind of molded us into who we are today. You know,
is a It's a really heavy thing, you know, it's heavy.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah. The other part of it that's fastening to me,
as I said earlier, was the Jamaica of that period,
which is Jamaica in the seventies. So many of these
photos are about Jamaica in the seventies, and Jamaican in
the seventies is an intense place. I mean, politics is
manly in Siaga, and there's violence, and there's gun court,
(06:30):
and there's reggae and there's you know, don Quarry winning
gold medal. I mean, it's just sort of like there's
so I remember go there as a kid. It's just
like so much. I was coming from rural Canada where
nothing happened, to a place where everything was happening. Can
you talk a little bit about that. I mean, you
were in the epicenter of this because your father was
at the was the kind of in the middle of
(06:53):
the of the maelstream.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Yeah, there were certain minor posts that I can like
remember about the seventies, especially the more turbulent times the politics.
So we can go back. I remember the night my
appearents verse, right. I remember before my mom left to
go to Ursus. I was like, yo, Mommy, take.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Me to Earth.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I wanted to go. I wanted to go to use
and said no, like you have school tomorrow. And I
was like very like angry that she never let me
go to Ursers. And then, you know, looking back after
the shoot, I think she probably.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
It was a good decision, right. So I remember that night.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
I remember she leaving and we went to bed, right,
But in the middle of the night, some police came
to the house and like grabbed us up and like
there's a lot of you know, like chaos, and like
let's go move, let's go, let's go get the kids
them out of the house, and they drove us to.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Wherever we were going. We never know. I was just
like this, I was like, the fuck this year? What
is seventy seventy six?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
But you're about geting the assassination seventy six y So
Another more impacerful experience was with my mom. Actually we're
talking about the seventies and what was going on there,
the political upheaval and just you know, the drama and everything.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
So my some my mom pick us up from school.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
This was during the height of the there was a
big protest going on political They were blacking the roads,
fire burning, tires burning in the streets.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
So my mom picked us up from school in.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
The Beatle in the vub's driving us home and we
come up on our road back.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Okay, okay, I get home. We're not too far from home.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
But we can pass because these guys there, there's tires burning,
and these guys are like and I remember being in
a back seat and watching my mother.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
She came out of the car and she confronted these
guys in a very bridge brave.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I mean, it's brave what she did, like stand up
and say, yo, know whatever I do. She cursed and
she tacked them down, and they kind of like, okay,
I'm kind of part part of the road back and
we drove through. So that's that's another memory that's like
from remember that time and the turbulent political situation. Those
(09:01):
two mile posts is what I go back to but
I mean there was good times to man, you know
what I mean, I mean going back to change, don't
playing football. You know, it was a very double edged
sword that period of time because it was so good too.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
The vibe, the energy of the music.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
There's so much live and there's so much revolutionary like change,
you know, like it's the same time Bob and Clyde
muss Up, who was a strong man or a strong
arm the political function and Bucking Marshall, they came together
and were starting to kind of dis owned the politics.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
And I was there too.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
I met I met all of these guys take live
and I knew, I knew what was happening, and I
kind of but actually when I got later and I
kind of understand who these guys were because I just
saw them as guys, as Bob's friends, and I know
they were meeting and talking and blah blah blah. But
when I grew up, I realized these guys were some
dangerous men. They weren't just like some love. These guys
(09:57):
were some serious guys, you know. So that is yeah,
that is the world.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
That is the world. You know.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Back in the seventies, I remember funny you talk about
your mother and that bla black. My grandfather telling me
that he driving down the road and there'd be a roadblock,
and he got really good at guessing whether it was
j LP or pn P, the two two parties. So
take a look. He's like, that's JLP wave. It is
fished out the window j LP. They're like waving through
(10:24):
the P and P. But you know, to your point,
it's the world that burst this extraordiny amount of your
father's music. I mean, it's what gave his music such
immediacy and urgency and power. Did your father talk a
lot about the cut of the politics of Jamaica?
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Not, I mean not to me.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
I mean I've heard, I've overheard stuff and i've you know,
but never directed to us.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Yeah, I mean he's spoken about it.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Obviously, he's not a political person to say, well, decide
these politics are that political party or whatever. I think
he was because his thing was rastafar right, which is
another thing. It's need a pn P, I JP. It's
like it's all things. And what was happening was that
all of the mentioned Claude Master, Boki Marshall, these were
the strong arms. They were These were the enforces of
(11:16):
the political party, the lead enforce us.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
These guys were coming over to Bob side.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
So there was a whole other thing going on that
the political poets were losing their their muscle to this
idea of RASTAFARII. And that was what bubb was really about,
really if it, I mean, if if he was about politics,
it was the political party of Rasta Farirai, which is
a spiritual movement, you know, change, change how things are.
(11:42):
So I think that was his politics. Rastafari was his politics.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
We could say, you know, yeah, I was trying to
think whether there's another musical artist who has had the
same kind of status in his or her home country
as your father did. I mean, I remembering that famous
concert where the two political figures of the day and
(12:07):
manly didn't they shake hands on stage? Had had a
Bob Marley concert.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Yeah, the one loved Peace concert.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah. I mean, the analogy would be as if Donald
Trump and Joe Biden had kind of hugged on stage
at a Bruce Springsteen concert. Right, that's the that's the
club I mean, But it doesn'ty, that doesn't even capture it.
I mean, this is why I love the book so
much because it takes us back to the time and
the place. Yeah, there's wonderful photos of the One Love
(12:37):
Concert with Siega and Michael Manley.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Yeah, I remember that that was there. Me and my
brother went on stage. That's what we usually do. Like
me'am Stephen, my brother Steven, you would go on stage.
We would go on stage in that last time, which
is usually exodus those times was tough to the One
Love Peace Concert. So I remember, let me.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Let me.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
I don't think we're being afforded at that period. But
when Bob after the assassination attempt and Bob I'd come
home far the One Love Peace Concert, So we all
went to the airport, and you know, there was totally
enough people at the air because Bob's coming back. And
the thing is that political strongmen for the parties, political
parties now we're on the same page as Bob. And
so everyone that supports these political parties now was supporting
(13:22):
Bob and and and these these guys who know have
their own ideas of peace and less political violence.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
So the airport was full.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
And then I was there and I remember the crowd
and then pulled Bob and I'm there, I'm outside now
in this crowd, all mixed up with everybody, and Bob
get pulled into a car and I'm by the window
like this, Why no, he pulled me through the window.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Well you knew you got left behind.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
I got mixed up in the cow. It was like
this crowd. No, there wasn't I had no nanny, r
nobody watching me.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
It's important to remember in this moment in Jamaican history,
it's almost like the country is in is instead of
civil war, there is violence everywhere. You know, people are
leaving Jamaica and droves to come to the United States
or Canada to escape. It's a kind of a crazy period.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
But it's funny not only as civil wars, like a
geopolitical work going on to at the same time between
the United States and Russia and Cuba, because that was
the old thing.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
That's why Edward Seaga he was a buston.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
He guarded from Boston University, and so there was the
geopolitical situation.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Even elevated the stakes even more.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Yeah, and Bob, I mean, Bob wasn't a serious position
and nobody knew, but he wasn't a serious position because
of the geopolitical element. Would would America allow a socialist
government who has ties with Cuba to have another, which
would then mean Russia having a more influence in that region.
(15:00):
You know, America didn't want and would not allow that.
And now there was this guy, this singer guy who
who people were drawn to, and he was like she
had some politic got power too because the political strong
men and their people are now drawn to this singer guy.
Who's this singer guy, you know what I'm saying. So
the states were really high beyond what I think we realized,
(15:24):
or even Bob might have realized at the time. Are
people around him you know.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
We'll be back with Malcolm Gladwell and Ziggy Marley after
a break. We're back with more from Ziggy Marley and
Malcolm Gladwell.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Can you think of a musical figure who is analogous
to your father?
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Yeah, I think more fella cute from Nigeria.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Yeah, and him he was, you know, he was another
one of my I met him once, not Chica, but
he was he was serious. He was really, I mean
what he did in in Nigeria standing up against the government,
the brutality and the songs he.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Wrote about that.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Really, he just like my father assassination, and I mean
they would read him and beat him and beat his
mother and you know a type of things.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
So I felt it would be a good analogy to Bob.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I think, yeah, yeah, And there are a couple maybe
a couple of South African la maybe it would be
a good analogy. But when do you become aware that
you want to make your life in music? Is that
something that comes to you very young and looking at
your father or afterwards after his death.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
No, it comes, it comes before that.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
I mean the first concert we played, it was a
concert that Bob wasn't It was the International year the
children hear that was same to nine. So he and
he wrote the first song that we have a song.
So we was always music and Bob would always call
us to sing when he's writing, it'll come sing.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
We're playing. We want to go play.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
He started telling us to come sing, you know, so
we'll start very young with music. The thing I get
from Bob musically speaking, is a discipline and the focus
and the seriousness in which you approach the music. The
respect that they gave the music. So you have to
put in the work that shows you respect the music
(17:17):
is not like it and you know, you have to
sing the right No you ever practice, you know, so
really when we used to see that and much about
the Marrs, and I think for some reason I grew
up taking that ethic of hard work and putting it
into my own music of my life in general, you know,
the exercise and or whatever.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
I think seeing him just you know, grining and like
want to make it right.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
And the discipline, the discipline, you know said, the discipline
is really is a strong impact on me seeing that
discipline as growing up around that.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Can you talk a little bit about the way he
made music? I mean, was there was there a kind
of an approach that a particular approach and can you
can you give a loves of an example of how
he worked and how he created?
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Well what I saw and this was probably in Miami
at his mother's house. Yeah, but he always had this
guitar around and a lot of time it's mumbling. You
don't really it's not a song, you just hear ideas
coming out.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
And for me, he would always have fun with it.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
It was never like a serious like writing and you know,
it was like something very joyful in the process, was
very joyful, unhappy, and people around and laughing and you know,
you getting the lyrics making fun. There's this one, and
I don't think you never did release this one.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
It was released. It's kind of like he.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Did it as a demo real It's kind of like
a really good time and.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
I don't remember him being in Miami.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
In his bedroom with his O Vision guitar and it
was just having fun with you, having a real good time,
you know, and people you know, I'm a smoke and
split fun. It's just a good energy, just a good vibe,
you know what it's like. And then you never hear
what a sound complete. You only hear when it come
on the record. You hear pieces of it, ideas of
things you know, and then you hear a record. So
(19:07):
you never I never him complete one song righting a
song completely, you know, you always hear a little bits
and pieces here and there.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
When your father became ill, was there a sense of
urgency with him? Did his work take on a new
kind of seriousness?
Speaker 4 (19:26):
No, he was always urgent from him.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
I mean he was urgent from the get go, because
there are a few examples of that kind of energy
of his urgency, of his work, ethic, of his determination.
So he was in the band of Winners with with
Bonnie and Peter, these three guys, right, they were in
his band and obviously in a world code because a
kind to what he said in an interview, it was
(19:50):
like and said these words, he used my name. He says,
if if you think when Ziggy wants to go to
school that he can say, like he didn't want to work,
he didn't want to do this what you know, so
he wants to work, you know, he wants to get
things done. There was always an urgency. There was never
a lot of time. There was never a lot of time.
(20:10):
There was always music. There was never and like all right,
let me take a vacation, now, let my got chill out.
Now there's no It was like thirty six I mean,
how much in thirty six years of like pushing, you know,
pushing it, pushing and pushing it, touring, never stopping, so
that urgency of field was always there.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Of all of his music, what are the songs that
speak to you the most.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
The song that gets minimalist is a redemption song because
I remember Shout of Empires.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
That was the album that was the album.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
That song was was the emotional spear, the emotional arrow.
You know when you hear that song that in that
time So that memory of that song I related to
that time period and it was human his guitar. It's
so it's so soulful and just the final thing is
just Himan and guitar, and so that song always kind
(21:03):
of have an emotional impart on me.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah, I want to know more about your childhood. There's
a lot of moving around. Your family went to London
right after the shooting, is that right?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yeah, but we we never got London, So all right,
so chrenched down right Changtown where where I was born
in Changstown. We grew up in a Changstone a little
bit and then moved to Delaware, where his mother had
moved I migrated to.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
So we lived in Delaware, Williamington, Delaware.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
I went to school elementary school in Delaware for maybe
a year or so.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
Then we moved up to Jamaica.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
But we moved out out Trenchtone and move into a
place called Bulby, which is a much better standard of living.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
It's like, you know, not poor, but not rich.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
It's like the middle class or something like that in
Jamaica at the time. But it's funny within that middle
class community when a mother lived. We were still with
our grand aunt and it was like we had to
walk up the road and up the hill and she
was living in a poor a poor classhouse with no
what I no tilet no nothing, so right within that
(22:05):
middle class thing years right, If I went to my aunt,
I was like I was another neighborhood. And so we
would stay with her a lot of times because mommy
and Daddy would go on tour and then we would
have to stay with Granda Auntie in that house there.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
And then after that we moved to an upper middle.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Class neighborhood now, and then after after my father passed Awa,
my mother move us into a more upper class in
the hills with a big house and lots of rooms
and stuff like that. So yeah, that was the movement
and it was fun as a child. Everything was a
great learning experience, you know, this life with my family
(22:43):
and my father and my mother and what they were
going through.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
I was also learning from. At the same time, what's.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
It like going back to Jamaica now? Get mobbed walking?
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Do?
Speaker 3 (22:53):
I haven't been back in a while. Still about going
back when I went back last time? Jam, I mean
a lot, a lot has changed at another generation.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
A lot of the vibes that's changed, the old look
has changed.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
You know, I'm a lot of more Americanization of Jamaica.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
But the country side is where the magic still remains.
You know. The city, the city's side, I'm not so,
I'm not.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
It's not when we when we were growing up in
a city, it wasn't like a big metropolitan city. It
was like a look a town and it was still
had that vibe of like you're still in Jamaica. But no,
it kind of the city kind of gets a little
more hectic and so, but the country side is is
still where it's. Jamaica has a vibe to it. You
(23:37):
don't really get anywhere from me. You know, it's a
very inspirational place if you find the right spot.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
You know.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
Ian Fleming, he wrote this gens band stuff in Jamaica.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
GoldenEye, Golden Eye is written in Jamaica, new Port, Antonio.
I think there's a there was a there was a house,
he stated, Yes, that's right.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Yeah, yeah, so plenty inspiration.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, it's easy to see why Jamaicans have such an
inflated sense of their own importance because the whole world
comes running very pro Yeah, I want to talk about
some of the photographs that mean the most to you
in this book. My first question was how many of
these photographs did you take, our other family members take
(24:22):
and how many of them are professional photographs?
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Well, I didn't, we never take any. These aren't all photographs.
These are professional.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
There's there's his friend never who used to do his
lighting and design his album or have some photos in there.
But with the book, what we what I try to
do is do a balance of those type of professional
like iconic images and with more like images of you know,
just in real life outside of the musician, outside of
the stage, you know, show some bags, you know, show
(24:53):
him beyond that, and for trying, as I said in
the book, trying to make people even feel a deeper
relationship to him. Because if you know someone just as
you I can are as you as a as a musician,
I mean a singer, then that's one we have done.
But if he can't get a deeper understanding of his
his life during that same period of time beyond that,
(25:15):
then you can feel even more connected to the person
and on that level.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
So that's what I was trying to do with the book.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
You know, but we never have unfortunate way at the time,
we never readly a letter. You know, we never have
cameras and we never have a camera. We never have
my camera. Yeah, you know, photographers have cameras. We have cameras.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
With the process of going through all these photographs painful,
what's the prop all kinds of memories.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Yeah, no, but joyful, not painful.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
I mean melan Caliber Barby's at here and when you
look at the photograph, he said, oh, what a young man.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
I'm fifty that I'm fifty two now.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
So when I look at him, He's like, look at
this young guy, young kid, you know what I mean?
Why you know, it's so that is a sad thing,
but there's so much the joy overwegh that there's so
much joy.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
I'm just looking at him and seeing him in that
way were I know he was having a good time
while he was doing it too.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
You know, he wasn't upsetaatey. He was having a good time.
He enjoyed, he enjoyed his experience. You know, I said,
so I feel happy about that that guy. I know
he was having a good time doing it. You know,
there's a photo we want to talk about the photo.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Let's go to m pages ninety seven China and appeared
ninety seven.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
If he can't come from it seems it seemed like
at his home, in his home in the countryside. Oh yes,
so this guy I used to we used to go
to the country. This is the same time we used
to go back with him on a trip. And this
this is just the real Bob, you know, I said,
this is and these are the people, this is where
come from. These are his people, this is his roots.
(26:49):
He was born on this land. And I mean, you
can't see the guys he's coming to. He's either coming
from the fielder going to the field, have some probably
yeaman stuff in that crocus bag you have there.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
And everybody. I mean, Bubble was just one of the people.
He was just one of them.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
And as you can see, and he's talking, he's eating
a banner and antargions and some of the kids them,
you know, and some of them have shoes on, some
don't have shoes.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
On, and they're laughing.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Well, you know, in communication with people, of good communication,
skilling up with.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
People, and you know, yeah, and just having fun. He
was en giant life. He's sitting and he's sitting on
the stairs here on the next page of.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
The pictures is I mean he's so you can just
tell how relaxing at Homie is.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
But at the time this photo is taken, he's at
the height of his fame.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Yeah, man, after the assassination at so this is yeah,
he's at the height right here. And this is as
you see this, he's leaning On the other page, he's
leaning up on the VW van. This is so we
had Mama had a beat her and he he would
drive this VW van.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
I think those are the only two kinds of cars
they were in Jamaica in those years, BW beatles.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
So yeah, and yeah, some of these people, some of
them is his cousins too. There's a couple of cousins
in here.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
This is at home. And then this is the last
photo from that series. I think if you go to
the next page, is him sitting down stealing sentence.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
But he's alone. His guitars on.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
The floor here on the ground right here, and he's
he's barefoot also right there.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
This photon is like, this is Bob.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
I think Bob was always like Alona, and he always
felt alone although he had so many people around him.
This is Bob, this is him and his like, this
is his meditation, this is him like in his space,
you know what I'm saying, alone and just vibing. I
felt like he felt like he was always alone in
some way, you know, and this kind of represents that
loneliness in a way.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
We'll be back with more from Ziggy Marley after this
quick break. We're back with the rest of Malcolm's conversation
with Ziggy Marley. As an added bonus, you'll hear the
Live Talks Los Angeles moderator take questions from the audience
at the end of Malcolm's interview.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
I love some of these group shots. There's there's on
page fifty, there's this fantastic group shot with the band
The Yes.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
All right, this photo was taken in in England. I
was here. I was there.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
We were on the way to Zimbabwe. Are coming from Zimbabwe.
That's why the next quota of me, if you look
at next quota, this is England too.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
So this is this is the time period.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
We're there, right before Zimbabwe, are after Zimbabwe. We were
in Yeah, and I went on the trip with him,
and you know, football as usual.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
I had not realized the extent to which she was
a soccer First of all, I know your son, but
I want you to be honest. How good was he?
Speaker 4 (29:57):
That was good.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
I mean I remember you played against me when I
was in you know, sometime of appearance versus. I was
on the soccer team in elementary school and I remember
he came. There was a peer versus you know, students,
and you know, so he came and I was like, yeah,
I marked this guy.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
I'm marked. I have this guy. I'll take him.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
But he was fast, which is good, and he had
a good kick, and he had a good player.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
He was a good player. Cousin. He idolized soccer player.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
One of his good friends was Alan skillcoll who was
like the top Jamaican player at the time, and they
were good friends.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
So, I mean, he kept fit.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
He kept his workout was like a professional soccer player workout,
you know. Abdomena was you know, running on the sand
playing soccer like that was that was that was a workout.
There's a soccer player workout basically. And his friends, all
of his friends were soccer players. I could play soccer.
He was drawn towards you know people like that, you know, but.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Zig to be a fan of of Jamaican soccer. Is
it exercise in masochism? It's like the I know this
from my cousins. Nothing is more painful than this team
that just loses and loses and loses.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
About the funny things. And we have some of the
best players in the world.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
But I don't know, cause I think we had some
great players, but we have the best runner.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Well, you always have the best runners, the fastest runner.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
That's but that's been true forever. I want to talk
a little bit about your own music, and you must
have thought about you had this extraordinary gift, which is
the gift of your father and his legacy, but it
also presents a challenge to kind of carve out your
own identity in that. How do you approach that?
Speaker 3 (31:41):
When I go back and look at my history, right,
our family history, so we have musicians and artists on
both sides of my family. A lot of people always
talk about my father, and like I said, my mother
was always key in in everything.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
My mother was actually a keen Bob's success. We don't
my mother. Bob wouldn't be as successful. I wouldn't even
have what he has.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
She was the one who reintroduced him, or introduced him
to the Rastafara and culture, which had a big impact
on him mentally and spiritually. She's the one who when
they didn't have nothing, She's the one who gave him
somewhere to sleep, and she was the one who slept
on the floor with him in the studios, who sold
records with him on their head, riding their bicycles through
(32:24):
through the streets. She was the one who got shut
in her head the same time he got shut in
the hand, and still showed up for the concert when
other people are like, no, we're not going.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
She still had a bullet in her head. So her
impact on his legacy.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
And where we are is I always remember that too,
you know, when I think about my what you just
asked me about, you know, making my own way or whatever,
I remember that what I have is that just coming
from my father's, coming from my mother, her grandfather, her father.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
My grandfather was a saxophone player. My father and mother and.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
His family were all church people, singers, they're singing churches,
and so the spirit there's you know, it's sides. And
for me, yes, I understand the question of my father
and his his wit or his impact on what it
would mean to someone like me, are son of any
person like Bob, and and how we kind of who
(33:25):
we who choose to be in the same line, and
we're kind of have to overcome whatever that thing is.
So for me never really was on the forefront of
my mind, and it was on the peripherals.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
And I heard it. I heard him thing and I
heard it, but I never paid much attention to it.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I started seeking a spiritual part when I was a teenager.
Somebody who will mental see it was evolved beyond that
because I was looking.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
And it's because of my father.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
I was looking, you know, because of his spirituality led
me into search for my spirituality.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
And so for me, I was with past.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
My ego of trying are thinking about are putting that
pressure and myself to live up to the legacyr to
make my own name or make my own way.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
I don't need to make my own way. I just
need to be myself.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
That will that will solve all the problem that I
will solve the problem that people is asking a question about.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
I don't need to like try to do it. I
just need to be true.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
And then that that is what that's is, how it
really is, and I also need to accept, and I
do accept.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
That my father is a part of me.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
There's gonna be similarities, there's gonna be things that is like,
you know, it's like Bob, you know what I mean.
So we're not trying to this this this stands to
ourself from him in that way either. So there's no
that's suld that doesn't exist because I don't want to
distance self from him because I am a part of him.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
Anyway.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
You cannot do that. He has a sound car running away.
You're running away, but you can't run away from yourself,
you know what I said. So that is how I
That is how I really try. That is how I
I when I analyze it myself after being asked that question,
that is how I see myself having dealt with it
in that way, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
And yeah, yeah, no that's beautifully but yeah, well thank you, Ziggy.
I think we have some questions. Ted is that right?
But this is like I said, the book, The book
was so lovely and took me back to so many
kind of wonderful memories of that era in Jamaica and
(35:36):
at a real thrill to talk to you about.
Speaker 5 (35:37):
It me too, same thing, all right, Thank you, Malcolm.
The first question, Ziggy is have you been to Ethiopia
and can you say something about your connection and your
father's connection to Ethiopia.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Yeah, we were in Ethiopia years back to celebrate I
think it was a sixtieth or one of those birthdays above.
Because obviously Ethiopia and it's history, we found a strong
connection to the Rastafari culture. It's a deep story because
as and I've probably catt it shot living in Jamaica
(36:14):
during the times of after independence or you know where
supposedly everywhere or whatever, the Christian faith and the faith
that was forced upon us by the colonists was something
that a sector of you know, Jamaican started to turn against, like,
you know, this is a slave master thing.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
You know, white God.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Why Jesus is a white guy with blue eyes and
blah blah blah.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
Whereas who do we identify with?
Speaker 3 (36:41):
And so Marcus Gather really started the whole conversation and
this and and said some stuff. You know, when Marcus
that all black thing and the black oe and you know,
your black identity, that was a strong inspiration. And then
when Rastafari start using the same Bible that was given
to them by the colonists to now interpret it in
(37:01):
a way that put an emphasis on this king in
Ethiopia as the real as the comment of another christ
like individual in that philosophy. In that in that idea,
a lot of people in Jamaica found are real independence,
a full break from the colonialist not only the political independence,
(37:24):
but the mental independence. And that was the rise of
the Rastafarire culture and the connection with each opera with
this king, who within the Bible is still represented because
he is a lineage of King Solomon, and in the
Bible say he will come again with the name King
of Kings Ladah, lad.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
Can canna travel Judah.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
And this was the title that this man, this manner
has And so that strong connection to Ethiopia is fort
to that because Exodus in a barbad alum called Exodus,
and Exodus obviously is a relation to the struggle of
the israel people coming over of Egypt. And so we
are a strong connection with that whole thing, with David
and Salomon, and so Rasta far I come through that
(38:10):
connection with its last I as I descend that of
Solomon and Sotopia. Ittopia was a big It was like
Jerusalem or Mecca, or whatever. You know that was Ethop
was like that for for Rastafari culture.
Speaker 5 (38:26):
So your siblings have crafted their own music careers. The
question or asks what is the relationship between your siblings
both musically and and how you relate to each other today?
Speaker 3 (38:41):
So we grew up, all right, So we grew up,
let's come back, or we grew now because it's very
important because all right, my father was married to my mother,
but he had children of a wed right because obviously
the wed like thing is a colonial thing, and we
don't deal with colonial things, you know, we are free
or whatever. So that was my father's you know philosophy.
(39:02):
After you learn things, they need us free yourself anyway.
But so we always grew up.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
You know, when my.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Father would take us to visit, like I'm the oldest son, right,
so he would take me and sometimes my brother Stephen.
You know there's a new there was a new baby
or a new you know. He would drive us to
the house where my brother, my other brother was who
was not of my mother, and you know, he would
visit and we would meet you came on here, meet
(39:29):
Robbie and meet Rowan or whoever it was. And my
mother now which is the most important part of this
was always she was like the mother of all of them,
like she was the mother of the children who she
wasn't the mother of basically, so everybody would come to us,
and you know, my mother would be the one who
(39:49):
kind of take care of children, whether it was his
child or not.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
And she is the one whenever.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
She never taught us to like be like vindictive our
head for our reasentful of my father or of the
other children. In no way, we were just one family.
So that's all we that's the lesson we have learned.
Nobody nobody told us that you shouldn't like that guy
because he's not your mother's son.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
We never learned that. So that's all we still are today.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
We get together every now and again, but we have
such a strong connection that we don't have that emotion,
that deep emotional sadness are like oh I missed my thinger,
oh my brother or something like that.
Speaker 4 (40:27):
You know, we never grew up that way.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
We grew up a little bit let's emotional, I would say,
So we don't have that in us. But we do
have a connection and I love for each other and
I respect for each other. We never fight each other
whenever you know, we'll understand each other, and everybody understand
each other. So that's how we live musically. Me and
my brother Steve, and we share a lot of music
(40:49):
them man. Steve is the one who nurtured they man.
We nurture each other music basically each of us. I
helped Steve when he was young, Steve his younger brother,
and we just keep nurturing each other.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
So that's how it is.
Speaker 5 (41:03):
A final question has to do and there are several
people who ask questions about musical collaboration. Is there anyone
you would have liked to see your father have collaborated
with that he did not get to And how do
you feel about musical collaborations?
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Who would you like to collaborate with?
Speaker 1 (41:21):
No?
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Musical collaboration is a good thing, right In some ways
it is expanding each of the artists's reach to other audiences,
which is good. It is showing a true example of
unification in a way where it can be two different
types of music blending together to bring to make something new.
(41:43):
I'm a very shy person, so I don't like to
ask people for a thing. I don't really like to
ask people, you know, like hey, can you do this?
Speaker 4 (41:51):
You know?
Speaker 3 (41:52):
So I'm very shy like that, But for some reason
this year, during the COVID thing, I've done the most
collaborations I've ever done in ten years, which is very strange.
It's a very interesting time for me. And how those
come about, Well, the first colors that I did last
year was from my kids album, and I think when
(42:14):
I the children music, I find it's a have a
different state of when I do the other type my
other music.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Somehow I feel more more comfortable with asking somebody to
do some for children music, and it has something to
do with that we have a charitable element to it,
and so I'm much more comfortable doing that.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
So I did.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
I did a few big collaborations with Ben Cheryl Crow,
Alanis Morissett, Angelie Kid, Joe, tom Morello, Busta Rhymes. So
my kids album other like a bog of collaboration, which
we really enjoy doing. And how I work with collaboration
is that we have a connection. It can just be
like a corporate deal, it can be like, you know,
(43:01):
just have a contractual relationship with it has to be
something real, and that is why I haven't done a
lot of collaboration, but a lot of these artists that
are on that album I've done for years. We've done
music together. You know, we talk and we text her
or whatever. So that's how I like to do collaborations.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
For Bob. I can't respect late and that I do.
I don't want to spect it.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
And that Bob, you know, he was in a collaborative band,
the way as he collaborated Petere and Bonnie and I
know Steven and that gentleman stage. I think the collaboration
and there was also what's his name came back? See
what's the beatle of guy name? George Harrison. So I
feel like bob collaboration collaborational spirit was one where if
(43:45):
he was on stage and somebody wanted to come up,
he would welcome them up, collabor He's a he's a
social person, come on up and seeing don't I'm not
sure about record and I don't know about that, and
there's no way I can't imagine it.
Speaker 4 (43:58):
I can't respect it on that.
Speaker 5 (44:00):
Well, thanks for joining us, Ziggy Marley, and thank you
Malcolm glad Well for chatting with Ziggy.
Speaker 4 (44:06):
All right, malcom times man, take care see if guys.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Pleasure Zicky Bye Bye.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Thanks to Ziggy Marley for sharing so many fascinating details
about his life with Bob.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
The book he.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Curated, Bob Marley Portrait of the Legend, is available now
and to hear a playlist of our favorite Bob and
Ziggy Marley songs, check out the playlist we created at
broken Record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to
our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast,
where you can find extended cuts of new and old episodes.
(44:41):
You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken
Record is produced to help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel,
Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineer and
help from Nick Chafey. Our executive producer is Mei Lobel.
Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries and he
liked the show. Please remember to share, rate, and review
(45:02):
us on your podcast app Our theme musics by Kenny Beats.
I'm justin Richmond, Peace
Speaker 4 (45:09):
Skip the pin
Pushkin.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Last week we went back and replayed my conversation with
Usher to celebrate his Super Bowl performance and the incredible
career resurgence he's had over the last couple of years.
In thinking about our back catalog of episodes, I thought
there was another conversation worth revisiting, Malcolm Gladwell speaking with
Ziggy Marley about the cultural influence the tiny country of
Jamaica and Ziggy's dad, Bob Marley, have had over the
(00:41):
last half a century. The Bob Marley bio Pick One Love,
was released in theaters yesterday. I hope anyone familiar with
the Bob Marley name or his music will go see
it at some point if I wanted to keep the
conversation about his songs and his political thinking alive and
to guard against his legacy becoming further Whitewashington commercialized, which
feels increasingly inevitable as the years after his death continue on.
(01:03):
So have a listen to Malcolm's conversation with Ziggy from
a couple of years back, see the movie Spend some
Time with Males catalog and some of the other great
Jamaican music from that time, from Prince Buster to Alton
Ellis and beyond. This is broken record liner notes for
the digital age.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
I'm justin Richmond.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Here's Malcolm Gladwell and Ziggy Marley. This conversation was taped
live as part of the Live Talks Los Angeles series.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
This book that you've done, with all of these photos
of your father, it had a kind of personal residence
for me because, as you may know, my mom is
Jamaican and when I was growing up in the seventies,
we would go to Jamaica every year every Christmas and
all these so many of these photos are from the
Jamaica that I remember as a kid. It's funny, It's like,
(01:53):
I mean, it's very personal for you, but in this
weird indirect way, it's personal for me too. You know
how when you look at a photo of Jamaica, you
can smell Jamaica. I could smell I could smell Jamaica again,
It's this lovely like took me back to my childhood.
What led you to want to do this book?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
So over the years we've we've collected a lot of
photographs of Bob. I'm from different photographers and stuff like that.
And you know, usually I think the photographs you say
a Bob are iconic photographs. You know, you always see
the iconic images, and so for this, we came upon
the seven the fifth at birthday anniversary, and I felt like,
(02:33):
let's do some special for the seven fifth. Let's take
some of these photos archives and put together a photobook.
The family has never done one before, other people have
done one. Then I'm totally understand. Always said when you
talk about you smell Jamaica the photos because during the book,
like it brought me back to that time too, you know,
looking at it just it's like it's such a it's
(02:54):
such a real experience, a real thing that when I
was looking at the photos, it, you know, everything just
kind of came back to me.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, when you say, I was just thinking logistically, you said,
this is really the family's book. There's so many of you.
How on earth did you guys? Did you guys coordinate
picking all of these photos? Did you have like a
family counsel where you all sat down and went through them?
Speaker 4 (03:20):
No?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
No, well I was given a task. I was given
that responsibility of going through the photos.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
That's all we do.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Kind of delegate responsibilities. Yeah, you know, everybody, this is
your project, your you have you have the family's approval
and blessing.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Is your project, go ahead and do it, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, Well, tell me about your your memories of your father.
You so, you're born in sixty eight, so you when
he dies, you're you're just a teenager.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Yeah, it was going on thirteen.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, tell me tell me a little bit about what
you remember of your father.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Well everything, I mean, they's not'ing to forget really, because
the limited experience we've had with him, you know, everything
was memorable and left everlasting impact on my psyche. You know,
I said everything it was like going to school, but
a different type of school, you know, I said, like
so growing not put bob. I mean, there was different elements.
(04:11):
It was fun side, happicide and clear on the children.
Speaker 4 (04:14):
We will travel to the countryside, this hometown every now
and again. I didn't fun. I remember those days. They
were no seats.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
He would have been a lap in the front seat
or seat no no, no ear back.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, yeah, I believe it. I remember that Jamaica in
the back of the Volkswagen Beetle driven by my uncle.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
My my mom had one of those two. She had
one of those Beatles too.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Yeah, But I mean and then there was a serious side.
It was what I saw was a lot of discipline.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
This money.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
I love work hard this mane, I love discipline, this money.
He's from the countryside and he's so rute rooted in
his humility that for him to call back to his
home towne I go back to trenchtone in the ghetto.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
It was like, it's just it's just Bob. This is
just Bob. It's not like Bob.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
The the superstar or whatever, you know, It's just bib So.
I mean lots of socle, lots of football, socle music,
socle music, and the spiritual side of it was very
powerful thing. And as love having Bible. And he would
take me and my brother Steve into this what you
call him. It's like service, like you know people got
(05:26):
to church service, or people go to the synagague or
the masque. When we had these thing called naia bingis
and we would it would be like some weird time
at night.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
And it was such a mystical.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
That's why I said it left such an impression on
me as a child, because it was such a the
not being was such a mystical thing, you know, smoke, fire, drums, singing,
chanting and a whole spiritual vibe, you know. So yeah,
you know, we go up in that kind of environment
where every memory really is stuck with us, and the
memory is stuck with us more than just a memory.
(05:56):
It stuck with us as like I experience that has
kind of molded us into who we are today. You know,
is a It's a really heavy thing, you know, it's heavy.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah. The other part of it that's fastening to me,
as I said earlier, was the Jamaica of that period,
which is Jamaica in the seventies. So many of these
photos are about Jamaica in the seventies, and Jamaican in
the seventies is an intense place. I mean, politics is
manly in Siaga, and there's violence, and there's gun court,
(06:30):
and there's reggae and there's you know, don Quarry winning
gold medal. I mean, it's just sort of like there's
so I remember go there as a kid. It's just
like so much. I was coming from rural Canada where
nothing happened, to a place where everything was happening. Can
you talk a little bit about that. I mean, you
were in the epicenter of this because your father was
at the was the kind of in the middle of
(06:53):
the of the maelstream.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Yeah, there were certain minor posts that I can like
remember about the seventies, especially the more turbulent times the politics.
So we can go back. I remember the night my
appearents verse, right. I remember before my mom left to
go to Ursus. I was like, yo, Mommy, take.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Me to Earth.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I wanted to go. I wanted to go to use
and said no, like you have school tomorrow. And I
was like very like angry that she never let me
go to Ursers. And then, you know, looking back after
the shoot, I think she probably.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
It was a good decision, right. So I remember that night.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
I remember she leaving and we went to bed, right,
But in the middle of the night, some police came
to the house and like grabbed us up and like
there's a lot of you know, like chaos, and like
let's go move, let's go, let's go get the kids
them out of the house, and they drove us to.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Wherever we were going. We never know. I was just
like this, I was like, the fuck this year? What
is seventy seventy six?
Speaker 3 (07:53):
But you're about geting the assassination seventy six y So
Another more impacerful experience was with my mom. Actually we're
talking about the seventies and what was going on there,
the political upheaval and just you know, the drama and everything.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
So my some my mom pick us up from school.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
This was during the height of the there was a
big protest going on political They were blacking the roads,
fire burning, tires burning in the streets.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
So my mom picked us up from school in.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
The Beatle in the vub's driving us home and we
come up on our road back.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Okay, okay, I get home. We're not too far from home.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
But we can pass because these guys there, there's tires burning,
and these guys are like and I remember being in
a back seat and watching my mother.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
She came out of the car and she confronted these
guys in a very bridge brave.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I mean, it's brave what she did, like stand up
and say, yo, know whatever I do. She cursed and
she tacked them down, and they kind of like, okay,
I'm kind of part part of the road back and
we drove through. So that's that's another memory that's like
from remember that time and the turbulent political situation. Those
(09:01):
two mile posts is what I go back to but
I mean there was good times to man, you know
what I mean, I mean going back to change, don't
playing football. You know, it was a very double edged
sword that period of time because it was so good too.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
The vibe, the energy of the music.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
There's so much live and there's so much revolutionary like change,
you know, like it's the same time Bob and Clyde
muss Up, who was a strong man or a strong
arm the political function and Bucking Marshall, they came together
and were starting to kind of dis owned the politics.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
And I was there too.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
I met I met all of these guys take live
and I knew, I knew what was happening, and I
kind of but actually when I got later and I
kind of understand who these guys were because I just
saw them as guys, as Bob's friends, and I know
they were meeting and talking and blah blah blah. But
when I grew up, I realized these guys were some
dangerous men. They weren't just like some love. These guys
(09:57):
were some serious guys, you know. So that is yeah,
that is the world.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
That is the world. You know.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Back in the seventies, I remember funny you talk about
your mother and that bla black. My grandfather telling me
that he driving down the road and there'd be a roadblock,
and he got really good at guessing whether it was
j LP or pn P, the two two parties. So
take a look. He's like, that's JLP wave. It is
fished out the window j LP. They're like waving through
(10:24):
the P and P. But you know, to your point,
it's the world that burst this extraordiny amount of your
father's music. I mean, it's what gave his music such
immediacy and urgency and power. Did your father talk a
lot about the cut of the politics of Jamaica?
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Not, I mean not to me.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
I mean I've heard, I've overheard stuff and i've you know,
but never directed to us.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Yeah, I mean he's spoken about it.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Obviously, he's not a political person to say, well, decide
these politics are that political party or whatever. I think
he was because his thing was rastafar right, which is
another thing. It's need a pn P, I JP. It's
like it's all things. And what was happening was that
all of the mentioned Claude Master, Boki Marshall, these were
the strong arms. They were These were the enforces of
(11:16):
the political party, the lead enforce us.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
These guys were coming over to Bob side.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
So there was a whole other thing going on that
the political poets were losing their their muscle to this
idea of RASTAFARII. And that was what bubb was really about,
really if it, I mean, if if he was about politics,
it was the political party of Rasta Farirai, which is
a spiritual movement, you know, change, change how things are.
(11:42):
So I think that was his politics. Rastafari was his politics.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
We could say, you know, yeah, I was trying to
think whether there's another musical artist who has had the
same kind of status in his or her home country
as your father did. I mean, I remembering that famous
concert where the two political figures of the day and
(12:07):
manly didn't they shake hands on stage? Had had a
Bob Marley concert.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Yeah, the one loved Peace concert.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah. I mean, the analogy would be as if Donald
Trump and Joe Biden had kind of hugged on stage
at a Bruce Springsteen concert. Right, that's the that's the
club I mean, But it doesn'ty, that doesn't even capture it.
I mean, this is why I love the book so
much because it takes us back to the time and
the place. Yeah, there's wonderful photos of the One Love
(12:37):
Concert with Siega and Michael Manley.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
Yeah, I remember that that was there. Me and my
brother went on stage. That's what we usually do. Like
me'am Stephen, my brother Steven, you would go on stage.
We would go on stage in that last time, which
is usually exodus those times was tough to the One
Love Peace Concert. So I remember, let me.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Let me.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
I don't think we're being afforded at that period. But
when Bob after the assassination attempt and Bob I'd come
home far the One Love Peace Concert, So we all
went to the airport, and you know, there was totally
enough people at the air because Bob's coming back. And
the thing is that political strongmen for the parties, political
parties now we're on the same page as Bob. And
so everyone that supports these political parties now was supporting
(13:22):
Bob and and and these these guys who know have
their own ideas of peace and less political violence.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
So the airport was full.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
And then I was there and I remember the crowd
and then pulled Bob and I'm there, I'm outside now
in this crowd, all mixed up with everybody, and Bob
get pulled into a car and I'm by the window
like this, Why no, he pulled me through the window.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Well you knew you got left behind.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
I got mixed up in the cow. It was like
this crowd. No, there wasn't I had no nanny, r
nobody watching me.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
It's important to remember in this moment in Jamaican history,
it's almost like the country is in is instead of
civil war, there is violence everywhere. You know, people are
leaving Jamaica and droves to come to the United States
or Canada to escape. It's a kind of a crazy period.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
But it's funny not only as civil wars, like a
geopolitical work going on to at the same time between
the United States and Russia and Cuba, because that was
the old thing.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
That's why Edward Seaga he was a buston.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
He guarded from Boston University, and so there was the
geopolitical situation.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Even elevated the stakes even more.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Yeah, and Bob, I mean, Bob wasn't a serious position
and nobody knew, but he wasn't a serious position because
of the geopolitical element. Would would America allow a socialist
government who has ties with Cuba to have another, which
would then mean Russia having a more influence in that region.
(15:00):
You know, America didn't want and would not allow that.
And now there was this guy, this singer guy who
who people were drawn to, and he was like she
had some politic got power too because the political strong
men and their people are now drawn to this singer guy.
Who's this singer guy, you know what I'm saying. So
the states were really high beyond what I think we realized,
(15:24):
or even Bob might have realized at the time. Are
people around him you know.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
We'll be back with Malcolm Gladwell and Ziggy Marley after
a break. We're back with more from Ziggy Marley and
Malcolm Gladwell.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Can you think of a musical figure who is analogous
to your father?
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Yeah, I think more fella cute from Nigeria.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Yeah, and him he was, you know, he was another
one of my I met him once, not Chica, but
he was he was serious. He was really, I mean
what he did in in Nigeria standing up against the government,
the brutality and the songs he.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Wrote about that.
Speaker 3 (16:05):
Really, he just like my father assassination, and I mean
they would read him and beat him and beat his
mother and you know a type of things.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
So I felt it would be a good analogy to Bob.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I think, yeah, yeah, And there are a couple maybe
a couple of South African la maybe it would be
a good analogy. But when do you become aware that
you want to make your life in music? Is that
something that comes to you very young and looking at
your father or afterwards after his death.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
No, it comes, it comes before that.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
I mean the first concert we played, it was a
concert that Bob wasn't It was the International year the
children hear that was same to nine. So he and
he wrote the first song that we have a song.
So we was always music and Bob would always call
us to sing when he's writing, it'll come sing.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
We're playing. We want to go play.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
He started telling us to come sing, you know, so
we'll start very young with music. The thing I get
from Bob musically speaking, is a discipline and the focus
and the seriousness in which you approach the music. The
respect that they gave the music. So you have to
put in the work that shows you respect the music
(17:17):
is not like it and you know, you have to
sing the right No you ever practice, you know, so
really when we used to see that and much about
the Marrs, and I think for some reason I grew
up taking that ethic of hard work and putting it
into my own music of my life in general, you know,
the exercise and or whatever.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
I think seeing him just you know, grining and like
want to make it right.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
And the discipline, the discipline, you know said, the discipline
is really is a strong impact on me seeing that
discipline as growing up around that.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Can you talk a little bit about the way he
made music? I mean, was there was there a kind
of an approach that a particular approach and can you
can you give a loves of an example of how
he worked and how he created?
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Well what I saw and this was probably in Miami
at his mother's house. Yeah, but he always had this
guitar around and a lot of time it's mumbling. You
don't really it's not a song, you just hear ideas
coming out.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
And for me, he would always have fun with it.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
It was never like a serious like writing and you know,
it was like something very joyful in the process, was
very joyful, unhappy, and people around and laughing and you know,
you getting the lyrics making fun. There's this one, and
I don't think you never did release this one.
Speaker 4 (18:40):
It was released. It's kind of like he.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Did it as a demo real It's kind of like
a really good time and.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
I don't remember him being in Miami.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
In his bedroom with his O Vision guitar and it
was just having fun with you, having a real good time,
you know, and people you know, I'm a smoke and
split fun. It's just a good energy, just a good vibe,
you know what it's like. And then you never hear
what a sound complete. You only hear when it come
on the record. You hear pieces of it, ideas of
things you know, and then you hear a record. So
(19:07):
you never I never him complete one song righting a
song completely, you know, you always hear a little bits
and pieces here and there.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
When your father became ill, was there a sense of
urgency with him? Did his work take on a new
kind of seriousness?
Speaker 4 (19:26):
No, he was always urgent from him.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
I mean he was urgent from the get go, because
there are a few examples of that kind of energy
of his urgency, of his work, ethic, of his determination.
So he was in the band of Winners with with
Bonnie and Peter, these three guys, right, they were in
his band and obviously in a world code because a
kind to what he said in an interview, it was
(19:50):
like and said these words, he used my name. He says,
if if you think when Ziggy wants to go to
school that he can say, like he didn't want to work,
he didn't want to do this what you know, so
he wants to work, you know, he wants to get
things done. There was always an urgency. There was never
a lot of time. There was never a lot of time.
(20:10):
There was always music. There was never and like all right,
let me take a vacation, now, let my got chill out.
Now there's no It was like thirty six I mean,
how much in thirty six years of like pushing, you know,
pushing it, pushing and pushing it, touring, never stopping, so
that urgency of field was always there.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Of all of his music, what are the songs that
speak to you the most.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
The song that gets minimalist is a redemption song because
I remember Shout of Empires.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
That was the album that was the album.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
That song was was the emotional spear, the emotional arrow.
You know when you hear that song that in that
time So that memory of that song I related to
that time period and it was human his guitar. It's
so it's so soulful and just the final thing is
just Himan and guitar, and so that song always kind
(21:03):
of have an emotional impart on me.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Yeah, I want to know more about your childhood. There's
a lot of moving around. Your family went to London
right after the shooting, is that right?
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yeah, but we we never got London, So all right,
so chrenched down right Changtown where where I was born
in Changstown. We grew up in a Changstone a little
bit and then moved to Delaware, where his mother had
moved I migrated to.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
So we lived in Delaware, Williamington, Delaware.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
I went to school elementary school in Delaware for maybe
a year or so.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
Then we moved up to Jamaica.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
But we moved out out Trenchtone and move into a
place called Bulby, which is a much better standard of living.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
It's like, you know, not poor, but not rich.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
It's like the middle class or something like that in
Jamaica at the time. But it's funny within that middle
class community when a mother lived. We were still with
our grand aunt and it was like we had to
walk up the road and up the hill and she
was living in a poor a poor classhouse with no
what I no tilet no nothing, so right within that
(22:05):
middle class thing years right, If I went to my aunt,
I was like I was another neighborhood. And so we
would stay with her a lot of times because mommy
and Daddy would go on tour and then we would
have to stay with Granda Auntie in that house there.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
And then after that we moved to an upper middle.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Class neighborhood now, and then after after my father passed Awa,
my mother move us into a more upper class in
the hills with a big house and lots of rooms
and stuff like that. So yeah, that was the movement
and it was fun as a child. Everything was a
great learning experience, you know, this life with my family
(22:43):
and my father and my mother and what they were
going through.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
I was also learning from. At the same time, what's.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
It like going back to Jamaica now? Get mobbed walking?
Speaker 4 (22:53):
Do?
Speaker 3 (22:53):
I haven't been back in a while. Still about going
back when I went back last time? Jam, I mean
a lot, a lot has changed at another generation.
Speaker 4 (23:01):
A lot of the vibes that's changed, the old look
has changed.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
You know, I'm a lot of more Americanization of Jamaica.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
But the country side is where the magic still remains.
You know. The city, the city's side, I'm not so,
I'm not.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
It's not when we when we were growing up in
a city, it wasn't like a big metropolitan city. It
was like a look a town and it was still
had that vibe of like you're still in Jamaica. But no,
it kind of the city kind of gets a little
more hectic and so, but the country side is is
still where it's. Jamaica has a vibe to it. You
(23:37):
don't really get anywhere from me. You know, it's a
very inspirational place if you find the right spot.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
You know.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
Ian Fleming, he wrote this gens band stuff in Jamaica.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
GoldenEye, Golden Eye is written in Jamaica, new Port, Antonio.
I think there's a there was a there was a house,
he stated, Yes, that's right.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Yeah, yeah, so plenty inspiration.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
Yeah, it's easy to see why Jamaicans have such an
inflated sense of their own importance because the whole world
comes running very pro Yeah, I want to talk about
some of the photographs that mean the most to you
in this book. My first question was how many of
these photographs did you take, our other family members take
(24:22):
and how many of them are professional photographs?
Speaker 4 (24:26):
Well, I didn't, we never take any. These aren't all photographs.
These are professional.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
There's there's his friend never who used to do his
lighting and design his album or have some photos in there.
But with the book, what we what I try to
do is do a balance of those type of professional
like iconic images and with more like images of you know,
just in real life outside of the musician, outside of
the stage, you know, show some bags, you know, show
(24:53):
him beyond that, and for trying, as I said in
the book, trying to make people even feel a deeper
relationship to him. Because if you know someone just as
you I can are as you as a as a musician,
I mean a singer, then that's one we have done.
But if he can't get a deeper understanding of his
his life during that same period of time beyond that,
(25:15):
then you can feel even more connected to the person
and on that level.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
So that's what I was trying to do with the book.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
You know, but we never have unfortunate way at the time,
we never readly a letter. You know, we never have
cameras and we never have a camera. We never have
my camera. Yeah, you know, photographers have cameras. We have cameras.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
With the process of going through all these photographs painful,
what's the prop all kinds of memories.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Yeah, no, but joyful, not painful.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
I mean melan Caliber Barby's at here and when you
look at the photograph, he said, oh, what a young man.
Speaker 4 (25:48):
I'm fifty that I'm fifty two now.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
So when I look at him, He's like, look at
this young guy, young kid, you know what I mean?
Why you know, it's so that is a sad thing,
but there's so much the joy overwegh that there's so
much joy.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
I'm just looking at him and seeing him in that
way were I know he was having a good time
while he was doing it too.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
You know, he wasn't upsetaatey. He was having a good time.
He enjoyed, he enjoyed his experience. You know, I said,
so I feel happy about that that guy. I know
he was having a good time doing it. You know,
there's a photo we want to talk about the photo.
Speaker 4 (26:23):
Let's go to m pages ninety seven China and appeared
ninety seven.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
If he can't come from it seems it seemed like
at his home, in his home in the countryside. Oh yes,
so this guy I used to we used to go
to the country. This is the same time we used
to go back with him on a trip. And this
this is just the real Bob, you know, I said,
this is and these are the people, this is where
come from. These are his people, this is his roots.
(26:49):
He was born on this land. And I mean, you
can't see the guys he's coming to. He's either coming
from the fielder going to the field, have some probably
yeaman stuff in that crocus bag you have there.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
And everybody. I mean, Bubble was just one of the people.
He was just one of them.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
And as you can see, and he's talking, he's eating
a banner and antargions and some of the kids them,
you know, and some of them have shoes on, some
don't have shoes.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
On, and they're laughing.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Well, you know, in communication with people, of good communication,
skilling up with.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
People, and you know, yeah, and just having fun. He
was en giant life. He's sitting and he's sitting on
the stairs here on the next page of.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
The pictures is I mean he's so you can just
tell how relaxing at Homie is.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
But at the time this photo is taken, he's at
the height of his fame.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
Yeah, man, after the assassination at so this is yeah,
he's at the height right here. And this is as
you see this, he's leaning On the other page, he's
leaning up on the VW van. This is so we
had Mama had a beat her and he he would
drive this VW van.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
I think those are the only two kinds of cars
they were in Jamaica in those years, BW beatles.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
So yeah, and yeah, some of these people, some of
them is his cousins too. There's a couple of cousins
in here.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
This is at home. And then this is the last
photo from that series. I think if you go to
the next page, is him sitting down stealing sentence.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
But he's alone. His guitars on.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
The floor here on the ground right here, and he's
he's barefoot also right there.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
This photon is like, this is Bob.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
I think Bob was always like Alona, and he always
felt alone although he had so many people around him.
This is Bob, this is him and his like, this
is his meditation, this is him like in his space,
you know what I'm saying, alone and just vibing. I
felt like he felt like he was always alone in
some way, you know, and this kind of represents that
loneliness in a way.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
We'll be back with more from Ziggy Marley after this
quick break. We're back with the rest of Malcolm's conversation
with Ziggy Marley. As an added bonus, you'll hear the
Live Talks Los Angeles moderator take questions from the audience
at the end of Malcolm's interview.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
I love some of these group shots. There's there's on
page fifty, there's this fantastic group shot with the band
The Yes.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
All right, this photo was taken in in England. I
was here. I was there.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
We were on the way to Zimbabwe. Are coming from Zimbabwe.
That's why the next quota of me, if you look
at next quota, this is England too.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
So this is this is the time period.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
We're there, right before Zimbabwe, are after Zimbabwe. We were
in Yeah, and I went on the trip with him,
and you know, football as usual.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
I had not realized the extent to which she was
a soccer First of all, I know your son, but
I want you to be honest. How good was he?
Speaker 4 (29:57):
That was good.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
I mean I remember you played against me when I
was in you know, sometime of appearance versus. I was
on the soccer team in elementary school and I remember
he came. There was a peer versus you know, students,
and you know, so he came and I was like, yeah,
I marked this guy.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
I'm marked. I have this guy. I'll take him.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
But he was fast, which is good, and he had
a good kick, and he had a good player.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
He was a good player. Cousin. He idolized soccer player.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
One of his good friends was Alan skillcoll who was
like the top Jamaican player at the time, and they
were good friends.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
So, I mean, he kept fit.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
He kept his workout was like a professional soccer player workout,
you know. Abdomena was you know, running on the sand
playing soccer like that was that was that was a workout.
There's a soccer player workout basically. And his friends, all
of his friends were soccer players. I could play soccer.
He was drawn towards you know people like that, you know, but.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Zig to be a fan of of Jamaican soccer. Is
it exercise in masochism? It's like the I know this
from my cousins. Nothing is more painful than this team
that just loses and loses and loses.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
About the funny things. And we have some of the
best players in the world.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
But I don't know, cause I think we had some
great players, but we have the best runner.
Speaker 4 (31:17):
Well, you always have the best runners, the fastest runner.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
That's but that's been true forever. I want to talk
a little bit about your own music, and you must
have thought about you had this extraordinary gift, which is
the gift of your father and his legacy, but it
also presents a challenge to kind of carve out your
own identity in that. How do you approach that?
Speaker 3 (31:41):
When I go back and look at my history, right,
our family history, so we have musicians and artists on
both sides of my family. A lot of people always
talk about my father, and like I said, my mother
was always key in in everything.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
My mother was actually a keen Bob's success. We don't
my mother. Bob wouldn't be as successful. I wouldn't even
have what he has.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
She was the one who reintroduced him, or introduced him
to the Rastafara and culture, which had a big impact
on him mentally and spiritually. She's the one who when
they didn't have nothing, She's the one who gave him
somewhere to sleep, and she was the one who slept
on the floor with him in the studios, who sold
records with him on their head, riding their bicycles through
(32:24):
through the streets. She was the one who got shut
in her head the same time he got shut in
the hand, and still showed up for the concert when
other people are like, no, we're not going.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
She still had a bullet in her head. So her
impact on his legacy.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
And where we are is I always remember that too,
you know, when I think about my what you just
asked me about, you know, making my own way or whatever,
I remember that what I have is that just coming
from my father's, coming from my mother, her grandfather, her father.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
My grandfather was a saxophone player. My father and mother and.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
His family were all church people, singers, they're singing churches,
and so the spirit there's you know, it's sides. And
for me, yes, I understand the question of my father
and his his wit or his impact on what it
would mean to someone like me, are son of any
person like Bob, and and how we kind of who
(33:25):
we who choose to be in the same line, and
we're kind of have to overcome whatever that thing is.
So for me never really was on the forefront of
my mind, and it was on the peripherals.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
And I heard it. I heard him thing and I
heard it, but I never paid much attention to it.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
I started seeking a spiritual part when I was a teenager.
Somebody who will mental see it was evolved beyond that
because I was looking.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
And it's because of my father.
Speaker 3 (33:55):
I was looking, you know, because of his spirituality led
me into search for my spirituality.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
And so for me, I was with past.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
My ego of trying are thinking about are putting that
pressure and myself to live up to the legacyr to
make my own name or make my own way.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
I don't need to make my own way. I just
need to be myself.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
That will that will solve all the problem that I
will solve the problem that people is asking a question about.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
I don't need to like try to do it. I
just need to be true.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
And then that that is what that's is, how it
really is, and I also need to accept, and I
do accept.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
That my father is a part of me.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
There's gonna be similarities, there's gonna be things that is like,
you know, it's like Bob, you know what I mean.
So we're not trying to this this this stands to
ourself from him in that way either. So there's no
that's suld that doesn't exist because I don't want to
distance self from him because I am a part of him.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
Anyway.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
You cannot do that. He has a sound car running away.
You're running away, but you can't run away from yourself,
you know what I said. So that is how I
That is how I really try. That is how I
I when I analyze it myself after being asked that question,
that is how I see myself having dealt with it
in that way, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
And yeah, yeah, no that's beautifully but yeah, well thank you, Ziggy.
I think we have some questions. Ted is that right?
But this is like I said, the book, The book
was so lovely and took me back to so many
kind of wonderful memories of that era in Jamaica and
(35:36):
at a real thrill to talk to you about.
Speaker 5 (35:37):
It me too, same thing, all right, Thank you, Malcolm.
The first question, Ziggy is have you been to Ethiopia
and can you say something about your connection and your
father's connection to Ethiopia.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Yeah, we were in Ethiopia years back to celebrate I
think it was a sixtieth or one of those birthdays above.
Because obviously Ethiopia and it's history, we found a strong
connection to the Rastafari culture. It's a deep story because
as and I've probably catt it shot living in Jamaica
(36:14):
during the times of after independence or you know where
supposedly everywhere or whatever, the Christian faith and the faith
that was forced upon us by the colonists was something
that a sector of you know, Jamaican started to turn against, like,
you know, this is a slave master thing.
Speaker 4 (36:33):
You know, white God.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Why Jesus is a white guy with blue eyes and
blah blah blah.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
Whereas who do we identify with?
Speaker 3 (36:41):
And so Marcus Gather really started the whole conversation and
this and and said some stuff. You know, when Marcus
that all black thing and the black oe and you know,
your black identity, that was a strong inspiration. And then
when Rastafari start using the same Bible that was given
to them by the colonists to now interpret it in
(37:01):
a way that put an emphasis on this king in
Ethiopia as the real as the comment of another christ
like individual in that philosophy. In that in that idea,
a lot of people in Jamaica found are real independence,
a full break from the colonialist not only the political independence,
(37:24):
but the mental independence. And that was the rise of
the Rastafarire culture and the connection with each opera with
this king, who within the Bible is still represented because
he is a lineage of King Solomon, and in the
Bible say he will come again with the name King
of Kings Ladah, lad.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
Can canna travel Judah.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
And this was the title that this man, this manner
has And so that strong connection to Ethiopia is fort
to that because Exodus in a barbad alum called Exodus,
and Exodus obviously is a relation to the struggle of
the israel people coming over of Egypt. And so we
are a strong connection with that whole thing, with David
and Salomon, and so Rasta far I come through that
(38:10):
connection with its last I as I descend that of
Solomon and Sotopia. Ittopia was a big It was like
Jerusalem or Mecca, or whatever. You know that was Ethop
was like that for for Rastafari culture.
Speaker 5 (38:26):
So your siblings have crafted their own music careers. The
question or asks what is the relationship between your siblings
both musically and and how you relate to each other today?
Speaker 3 (38:41):
So we grew up, all right, So we grew up,
let's come back, or we grew now because it's very
important because all right, my father was married to my mother,
but he had children of a wed right because obviously
the wed like thing is a colonial thing, and we
don't deal with colonial things, you know, we are free
or whatever. So that was my father's you know philosophy.
(39:02):
After you learn things, they need us free yourself anyway.
But so we always grew up.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
You know, when my.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
Father would take us to visit, like I'm the oldest son, right,
so he would take me and sometimes my brother Stephen.
You know there's a new there was a new baby
or a new you know. He would drive us to
the house where my brother, my other brother was who
was not of my mother, and you know, he would
visit and we would meet you came on here, meet
(39:29):
Robbie and meet Rowan or whoever it was. And my
mother now which is the most important part of this
was always she was like the mother of all of them,
like she was the mother of the children who she
wasn't the mother of basically, so everybody would come to us,
and you know, my mother would be the one who
(39:49):
kind of take care of children, whether it was his
child or not.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
And she is the one whenever.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
She never taught us to like be like vindictive our
head for our reasentful of my father or of the
other children. In no way, we were just one family.
So that's all we that's the lesson we have learned.
Nobody nobody told us that you shouldn't like that guy
because he's not your mother's son.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
We never learned that. So that's all we still are today.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
We get together every now and again, but we have
such a strong connection that we don't have that emotion,
that deep emotional sadness are like oh I missed my thinger,
oh my brother or something like that.
Speaker 4 (40:27):
You know, we never grew up that way.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
We grew up a little bit let's emotional, I would say,
So we don't have that in us. But we do
have a connection and I love for each other and
I respect for each other. We never fight each other
whenever you know, we'll understand each other, and everybody understand
each other. So that's how we live musically. Me and
my brother Steve, and we share a lot of music
(40:49):
them man. Steve is the one who nurtured they man.
We nurture each other music basically each of us. I
helped Steve when he was young, Steve his younger brother,
and we just keep nurturing each other.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
So that's how it is.
Speaker 5 (41:03):
A final question has to do and there are several
people who ask questions about musical collaboration. Is there anyone
you would have liked to see your father have collaborated
with that he did not get to And how do
you feel about musical collaborations?
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Who would you like to collaborate with?
Speaker 1 (41:21):
No?
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Musical collaboration is a good thing, right In some ways
it is expanding each of the artists's reach to other audiences,
which is good. It is showing a true example of
unification in a way where it can be two different
types of music blending together to bring to make something new.
(41:43):
I'm a very shy person, so I don't like to
ask people for a thing. I don't really like to
ask people, you know, like hey, can you do this?
Speaker 4 (41:51):
You know?
Speaker 3 (41:52):
So I'm very shy like that, But for some reason
this year, during the COVID thing, I've done the most
collaborations I've ever done in ten years, which is very strange.
It's a very interesting time for me. And how those
come about, Well, the first colors that I did last
year was from my kids album, and I think when
(42:14):
I the children music, I find it's a have a
different state of when I do the other type my
other music.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Somehow I feel more more comfortable with asking somebody to
do some for children music, and it has something to
do with that we have a charitable element to it,
and so I'm much more comfortable doing that.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
So I did.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
I did a few big collaborations with Ben Cheryl Crow,
Alanis Morissett, Angelie Kid, Joe, tom Morello, Busta Rhymes. So
my kids album other like a bog of collaboration, which
we really enjoy doing. And how I work with collaboration
is that we have a connection. It can just be
like a corporate deal, it can be like, you know,
(43:01):
just have a contractual relationship with it has to be
something real, and that is why I haven't done a
lot of collaboration, but a lot of these artists that
are on that album I've done for years. We've done
music together. You know, we talk and we text her
or whatever. So that's how I like to do collaborations.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
For Bob. I can't respect late and that I do.
I don't want to spect it.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
And that Bob, you know, he was in a collaborative band,
the way as he collaborated Petere and Bonnie and I
know Steven and that gentleman stage. I think the collaboration
and there was also what's his name came back? See
what's the beatle of guy name? George Harrison. So I
feel like bob collaboration collaborational spirit was one where if
(43:45):
he was on stage and somebody wanted to come up,
he would welcome them up, collabor He's a he's a
social person, come on up and seeing don't I'm not
sure about record and I don't know about that, and
there's no way I can't imagine it.
Speaker 4 (43:58):
I can't respect it on that.
Speaker 5 (44:00):
Well, thanks for joining us, Ziggy Marley, and thank you
Malcolm glad Well for chatting with Ziggy.
Speaker 4 (44:06):
All right, malcom times man, take care see if guys.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Pleasure Zicky Bye Bye.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Thanks to Ziggy Marley for sharing so many fascinating details
about his life with Bob.
Speaker 1 (44:19):
The book he.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Curated, Bob Marley Portrait of the Legend, is available now
and to hear a playlist of our favorite Bob and
Ziggy Marley songs, check out the playlist we created at
broken Record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to
our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast,
where you can find extended cuts of new and old episodes.
(44:41):
You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken
Record is produced to help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel,
Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineer and
help from Nick Chafey. Our executive producer is Mei Lobel.
Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries and he
liked the show. Please remember to share, rate, and review
(45:02):
us on your podcast app Our theme musics by Kenny Beats.
I'm justin Richmond, Peace
Speaker 4 (45:09):
Skip the pin
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.