May 10, 2024 • 51 mins
The TNT game analyst and former Heat/Magic/Pistons/Pelicans head coach works frequently these days alongside Chris Haynes in Chris' sideline reporter role and joins Haynes and Marc Stein for a candid conversation about the recent coaching changes around the league in Phoenix and Lakerland and the state of modern coaching. The guys also discuss some of Stan's past coaching experiences, whether he would take another head coaching job, his potential advice for JJ Redick when it comes to his former player becoming a coach and whether we'll ever get a podcast featuring Stan and his brother Jeff Van Gundy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to this League uncut in were the twenty four
hour NBA News.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
This is you.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Chris Haynes's telling Mark Stein it's some time. This league
un cut is underway and on fire. This should be
a good one.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Yes, indeed, this will be a great one. I should say.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
I told you, Stein Stein, I told you, I told
you for months.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I said it's going to happen. It's going to happen.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Everybody, Welcome back to hashtag this League uncut. I'm your host,
Chris Haynes and Mark stein Stein. I told you it
was going to happen, and it finally happened. It finally
did so, I'm pretty sure listeners asking what happened, what's
going on, I'm gonna tell you what was going on.
(00:58):
I got stan Van Gunn himself. He's here available to
come on our podcast. I'm very excited. This is my
broadcast partner with T and T. You guys know him
as the legendary coach. But he's doing He's over there
in the broadcast booth with me. And I asked him
on the same day. I asked him on the same day,
(01:19):
you know, and he came through. I know he has
a lot of things to do. But I appreciate him
for taking the time to join us. Stan, I appreciate
you brother, Thank you for coming on absolutely.
Speaker 5 (01:30):
Chris, anytime you know that for teammates, that's what you do.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
Stein.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I can't wait to hear what it's like to travel
with you.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Mark.
Speaker 6 (01:40):
We don't end up traveling together much because you know,
Chris coming from Sacramento and I'm coming from Florida.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
So we just connect when we get that.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
And Stan's taking us like he really takes care of
us on the road.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
He treated us to a suite at a baseball game
in San Francisco Giant Baseball game.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
It often takes us to dinner.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
I had the pleasure.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Sine of joining him and his brother Jeff van Gunny
for dinner.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
We had dinner at well, what was that place?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Italian Place in Boston.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
Aria, Aria in Austin.
Speaker 6 (02:16):
Yeah, it was a PJ Carlistimo recommendation. And you can
never go wrong if PJ Carlismo's recommending.
Speaker 7 (02:25):
No, that is true, PJ. I've seen PJ now three
times in the playoffs. I got to work with him
at ESBN for years, and I know I love food
and I care about restaurants, but I don't think there
is anyone in the history of the sport who cares
more about the postgame meal than PJ Carlssimo. So if he,
(02:48):
if he hooked you guys up, then it would had
to be good.
Speaker 5 (02:50):
Well it is, But Mark, I can't do the post
games with PJ. I don't know how you got with him.
I mean, you know, PJ wants to go eat. It's
like I'm like.
Speaker 7 (03:03):
Man, and that's early. I mean I remember an All
Star game. I remember an All Star game in New
Orleans and he had his kids with him who were
young at the time, and we must have you know,
every city in the league. PJ knows someone who will
keep their place open late for him, and it must
(03:23):
have been midnight when we sat down, and his kids
were ten and twelve. But no, there is there is
nothing that will stop coach Carlissimo from the postgame meal.
Speaker 6 (03:32):
No, there certainly is not one of the all time
great people in the game.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Well, Stan again, thank you for coming on and join us.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
You know, we got some interesting playoff series going on,
and we're going to get to that.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
But I want to, I want to. I gotta touch
on these coaching.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Moves that the Phoenix Sons and Los Angeles Lakers are
on the verge of making. But obviously we know they
let go at Darby Ham after two seasons, Phoenix Sons.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Let go of Frank Vogel after.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
One season, and the Suns are bringing on coach Buenholzer.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Your I guess your initial thoughts on that move.
Speaker 6 (04:12):
Well, the on the Phoenix thing, I mean, you know,
I think what always sort of gets me is if
you look at the organizations that have success consistently in
the league, continuity is a big part of it. And
(04:33):
so you look at Miami and people say, oh, well,
they always win, that's why they've had Sposter for as
long as they have, But that's not true. Before they
went to the finals in the Bubble, they had missed
the playoffs, what three out of four, three out of
five years.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
But they don't just make a move.
Speaker 6 (04:52):
They understand that continuity helps you you stay on the
same page with the type of players you want and
the players that will fit the coach and fit the organization.
Speaker 5 (05:06):
And as much as.
Speaker 6 (05:07):
People see how continuity works, they had some disappointing years
in Denver, they stuck with Michael Malone.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
They stuck with their key players. It got better.
Speaker 6 (05:20):
No matter how many times people see it work, most
of the people twenty seven to twenty eight teams in
the league can't figure it out, and so they just
keep changing.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
And so now the Phoenix Sun's.
Speaker 6 (05:33):
Third coach in three years, and we'll see if Mike
Budenholzer can make it to game one of his second
year with Phoenix, which would make him.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
Matdishbia's longest lasting yet.
Speaker 6 (05:50):
You know. But here's the thing, Listen, I don't have
any problem. They pay us a lot of money to
coach in this league. Owners front offices have every right
to make a change whenever they want. But please spare
me the ba that James Jones came out with saying
we all have accountability here.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
I read that and I said, oh really, James, So explain.
Speaker 6 (06:17):
To me what your accountability looks like for putting together
a roster with no point guard, no defensive stopper.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
I just like, explain to.
Speaker 6 (06:29):
Me what your accountability looks like, because you still have
a job. Explain to me what the rest of the
front office is accountability looks like. Explain to me what
Matt Ishby's accountability.
Speaker 5 (06:41):
Looks like that was a BS line.
Speaker 6 (06:44):
One guy was held accountable, one guy that was it,
no one else was held accountable. And then with Darvin Ham, look,
I mean he took him to the Western Conference finals
in his first year, a big over achievement I think
in the minds of most of us. And then this
year they went into the playoffs and gave Denver a
(07:07):
great first round series.
Speaker 5 (07:08):
I know, it only went five games.
Speaker 6 (07:10):
I don't think I've ever seen a team losing five
games in a series where they led for over seventy
percent of the minute. So, look, expectations are what they are.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
In LA.
Speaker 6 (07:23):
They fired Frank Bogel two years after winning a championship.
So those guys both got caught in two of the
crazier situations in this league. But they both take a
lot of money home with them, deservedly so, and I
hope they both get opportunities going forward.
Speaker 7 (07:47):
Yeah, it's interesting when you mentioned the money, because I
think there is a perspective out there now, or a
viewpoint that suggests that part of the reason your salaries
are on the rise is because the blame is baked in.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I mean, I don't know how fair that is.
Speaker 7 (08:01):
It cannot be a fun experience when you're actually doing
the job and you know it. But it just it
almost seems like the blame is factored into the contracts
that are being handed out today, that coaches know that
they're the first person in line who is going to
get the blame when things go awry.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Yeah, and you.
Speaker 6 (08:22):
Know what, I don't even looked at it really mark
as a as a fairness issue. I mean, professional sports
aren't about fairness. Like I said, The thing I mainly
objected to was the BS statement that Phoenix put out.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
But fairness doesn't really enter into it.
Speaker 6 (08:43):
What I wonder about is the people who constantly make
coaching changes.
Speaker 5 (08:52):
Just somebody please explain to.
Speaker 6 (08:55):
Me or show me where that has worked. I mean
it doesn't. People who stick with people. I'm not saying forever,
but stick with people and have some continuity.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
Look, I've talked to a lot of NBA scouts.
Speaker 6 (09:10):
It's a lot easier to go out there and do
your job when you sort of know what your team
is looking for, what's our style of play going to be,
who's going to get playing time with that particular coach.
I think the New York Knicks have done a tremendous
job of putting players on.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Their roster that fit with Tom Thibodeau.
Speaker 6 (09:30):
I think the Miami Heat always does a good job
of putting people on their roster that fit with Eric Spolstra.
You know, the Denver Nuggets know who they want to
put with Michael Malone and with Nikola Jokic.
Speaker 5 (09:45):
I don't know how you do your job as a front.
Speaker 6 (09:48):
Officer as a scout where you went out and you said, hey,
this guy would be a good fit, and then you say,
oh no, now we're going in a different direction. Oh
now we're going in a different direction. It's hard for
your organization to be successful, and yet owners in front
offices just keep doing it.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
So fairness aside.
Speaker 6 (10:09):
To me, it's about being successful and being about making
moves that makes sense. And I don't see how any
of this does a lot of times, let's face it,
it's a cover your ass move.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
Just screwed up.
Speaker 6 (10:23):
As a front office, you didn't put a good enough
roster together, and rather than working on that and making
your roster better, it's just easier to.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
Avoid blame and blame the head coach.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
That Phoenix roster from day one wasn't about fit.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
It was about going out.
Speaker 6 (10:42):
And getting the biggest names possible to put on the
back of their uniforms. I mean, look, they thought they
were contenders. Who are the other contending teams.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
That don't have a point guard?
Speaker 6 (10:55):
Who are the other contending teams where you can't name
a defensive stopper in their starting lineup. It was a
ridiculous roster they put together, and they held their head
coach accountable.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
Makes no sense.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Yeah, I have reported that Vogel wanted a point guard,
one of they starting point guard on that roster, but
the front office felt like that will be taking the
ball away from taking the ball away from KD. Devin
Booker and Bradley Beal felt like they needed the ball
in their hands.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
That was their explanation. Yeah, it didn't.
Speaker 6 (11:31):
Work, and so Frank got held accountable because you know,
we certainly have not seen over the last few years
with Jamal Murray and Steph Curry and guys like that,
that the point guard would be important. I mean, we've
never we've never really seen the importance of that position
in the NBA.
Speaker 7 (11:51):
Well, and it also seems like, you know, relationships with
your star players like that is always it's probably being
more prioritize now than ever. So to my knowledge, I
don't think Mike Budenholzer has worked with Durant or Booker
or Beal in the past, so he's really walking in
there totally fresh. How hard is that for a coach
(12:14):
to go into a new organization with you know, ownership
is talking championship or bust. Obviously they've spent a bazillion
dollars on the roster. They don't have flexibility to make changes.
How hard is that just for a coach to walk
into a new program and start from scratch.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
Yeah, I mean it's never easy, Mark.
Speaker 6 (12:33):
I mean, you know, you're getting to know new players
and you've got to get the pieces to fit together.
You've got to get buy in from your key guys.
But look, every coaching situation has challenges, and you'd certainly
rather go into a situation even that has challenges, but
it at least has talent than not having talent. So
(12:57):
Mike Budenholzer has dealt with that obviously with Giannis in
Milwaukee and the whole thing. And I mean, we want
to get into ridiculous coaching hires and fires. We don't
need to go any further than the Milwaukee Bucks, who
who got rid of Mike Budenholzer because they lost in
the first round with Yannis hurt, so they went out
(13:19):
and hired a guy who went thirty and thirteen, made
a coaching change there, and Yannis.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
Got hurt again.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
I mean, look, it's almost like you can't make this
stuff up. So Mike Budenholzer is a great coach, and
we'll do a.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
Hell of a job.
Speaker 6 (13:36):
But I've seen great coaches in this league, and I've
yet to see a miracle worker. And I've yet to
see anybody win win a championship with a roster that
wasn't good enough. So you know, his job there will
be to maximize what he has.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
Whoever has the Lakers, same job.
Speaker 6 (13:59):
It's what it always maximize what you've got, which is
all you can.
Speaker 5 (14:03):
Do as a coach, and that will never supersede the
roster itself. Coach.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
I did a bleacher Report live stream just before we
hopped on this podcast, and you know, I was reported
Jalen Brunston is going to play tonight.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
You know we worked the game where he heard his foot.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
But another one of my reports was I reported Doc
Rivers dismissed a few assistant coaches recently. Those assistants were
Josh Oppenheimer, DJ Baker and Sydney Dobner. And could you
talk about have you ever been in a situation where
(14:42):
you had to relieve some assistants that weren't on your
original like that they were holdovers from a previous coaching regimen,
And what is that process?
Speaker 6 (14:52):
Like?
Speaker 4 (14:53):
I know people saw that and they might not understand,
but this is Doc's this is Doc fine. They get
an opportunity to bring in his own staff. He just
talk about that type of transition.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 6 (15:05):
I mean I don't think that was necessarily Doc, you know,
not thinking guys were any good.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
I mean most of us, at least of us.
Speaker 6 (15:18):
Older guys who go on the old formula where you
get to hire your own staff, you.
Speaker 5 (15:23):
Know, you have you wanna want to have.
Speaker 6 (15:26):
And I think that's what Doc was. And the only
thing that's different about this is he came in mid season,
so he couldn't dismiss everybody then, so he had to
sort of make it work with the guys he had.
Now they're in a position where he can create his
own staff, you know, around he's got Dave Jeger. He's
got Rex Kallamian, you know, now he can add to that.
(15:48):
And so unfortunately, you know, some people have to have
to go to bring new people in. And I feel
for all those guys, but I think we all know,
and including those guys who've gotta let go, that's just
unfortunately the nature of the business.
Speaker 7 (16:09):
Chris said when he went out to dinner with you
guys that when just watching you and Jeff, like that
should have been a TV show in itself, that it
was that good to watch you guys joust. What are
the chances that we will ever get a Stan Van
Gundy Jeff Van Gundy basketball podcast that just to me
seems like a natural.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
Yeah, you know, I don't.
Speaker 6 (16:31):
Maybe at the time where we get to the time
mark where no one else will employ us to coach
or talk about basketball, maybe then we'll have to do
it ourselves. But right now we've been lucky enough that
other people will pay us, and we've been busy with
other things.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
There would be a lot of back and forth and
a lot of disagreement and probably at times a lot
of yelling and screaming.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
And ain't that's that's exactly what it's like st that's
exactly you would think they'll be so close there would
be a lot of agreements.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
No, it's not, it's more than other way.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (17:15):
Look, and here's the thing from my standpoint, Guys, like
I think, when you're gonna get in something where there's
a lot of disagreement, if you're gonna do that publicly,
you would want to be the smarter guy in all
of those things.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
And I'm not.
Speaker 6 (17:35):
So that's not that's not one. I don't mind the
private back and forth. I don't think I want to.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
Go be getting my ass kicked publicly.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
He's that sharp.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
He's pretty sharp, but I mean and uh, pretty quick
on his feet in one of the best basketball minds
in the business. Look, I say this knowing full well
I'm biased, but I'm really surprised that, you know, no
one has gone out and gone after him as a
(18:09):
head coach. I know it's been a long time, but look,
there's a lot of great coaches in our business. I
just don't think there's anybody better than.
Speaker 7 (18:18):
Him, your public personas like you guys came into our
world as coaches and it's you know, to me, it's
like if we would have known you guys as teenagers,
Would you have struck us as future coaches? Does it
go that far back that you feel like you were
(18:40):
both born to do this.
Speaker 6 (18:43):
I don't think anybody's born to do it, Mark, but
you would have known early on, because we're both pretty
realistic number one, and I think we both realized early
on that if we were going to have any future
in basketball, and I have to be coaching, because it
certainly wasn't gonna be players. So even though we both
(19:05):
were able to play at the small college level, neither
one of us thought, you know what, I think I
could make some money play in this game someday.
Speaker 5 (19:12):
Now that wasn't a possibility. I grew up hoping.
Speaker 6 (19:16):
You know, when I was young, I thought, you know, man,
I'd really love to be a baseball player. But when
you hit under one hundred when you're thirteen years old,
you know, like you start looking ahead.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
Going, yeah, I don't really see If.
Speaker 6 (19:29):
I went through the bios of the major league players,
I just don't think i'd see too many guys ninety
three when they were thirteen. So he started justing into
another into another line of work pretty quick, and we
grew up with a dad, who you know, coached for
over forty years, so we were around it the whole time.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
And I think not only did we see somebody.
Speaker 6 (19:53):
Who loved his job and felt he never worked today
in his life. We grew up around a lot of
other coaches, and I think we both grew up I
know we did.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
We both grew up.
Speaker 6 (20:06):
Both liking and respecting other coaches.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
So that's where we both always wanted to be.
Speaker 6 (20:13):
The fact that we were able to get to the
level we did, I mean, that was just a lot
of luck, and I think we both are still in
shock that.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
We made it to the level that we did. That
reminds me of myself. Baseball was my first love growing up.
My dad was a big baseball fan. My dad's brother
played semi pro baseball. I loved it. I just couldn't
play it. And I was a decent hitter. When I
(20:47):
say decent, I probably I'm probably bat in two twenty something,
you know, decent.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
As a junior high school.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
But I couldn't play the outfield to save my life,
meaning I couldn't judge the ball.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Whenever bat pops off the ball, I could, I didn't,
I couldn't.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
I didn't know if going to go back or go
go forward, like so there's no DH in junior high
and high school.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
You can't be a day so there was no place
for me.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
So that was that was kind of my movement when
I realized, okay, basic league baseball is not going to
be for me.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (21:24):
My final baseball moment, Chris, I was thirteen years old.
We were in the league championship game. I was hitting ninth,
of course, and the guy ahead of me, we were down.
We were down a run, and the guy ahead of
me and eight doubled off the fence. So now we
have the tying run on second base. I'm an I
(21:45):
strike out on three fastballs right down the middle because
nobody needed to screw around with me, like you know.
They threw it down the middle three times. I swung
and missed it all three and I was a competitive shit.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
And I got upset.
Speaker 6 (21:59):
I threw the back down, I threw my helmet down,
and my coach walks by me.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
My manager walks by.
Speaker 6 (22:06):
And he said, I don't know what you're so upset about.
You think you'd be used to it by now, And
I said, okay, that's probably it now. That guy was
like but I understand why didn't sign up to play
the next year.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
I'm like, do you remember what.
Speaker 6 (22:23):
You said to me at the end of that you know, yeah,
lost baseball baseball moment and then we were full time.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
Basketball started.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
Before we get off this coaching conversation, Stan has to
tell this story that I make Hill tell other people
about this story that Jeff Van Gonnie told about. You
remember the series I believe it was nineteen ninety nine,
Alan Houston was It was Alan Houston that I believe
it against Miami. The shot at the end where it
(22:59):
bounces up, remember that stile.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
Okay, go ahead, Stan, you take it away.
Speaker 6 (23:04):
Well, so what happened, Mark is actually my brother still
will talk about this, even though most of the coaches
you're talking to at clinics, you know, don't remember twenty
five years ago.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
But just to make the point, and it is really
a good one.
Speaker 6 (23:19):
I think at any level of basketball, if you're gonna
get into coaching, you have to understand what it's all about.
And Jeff talks about being in that series first round.
I was assistant in Miami at the time, and Mark,
you'll remember that New York was working behind the scenes
(23:39):
trying to get Phil Jackson to come there and coach.
So even though that they were saying after they didn't,
they were actively pursuing Phil Jackson, We're going to fire
my brother, the whole thing. And so here we are,
Game seven, right at the end, Allen Houston shoots the ball,
It hits the back rim, bunce is in the air,
(24:01):
and my brother says, Okay, that balls up in the air,
freeze right there.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Good coach or bad coach.
Speaker 6 (24:10):
And that's what so much of coaching comes down to,
you know, those moments because they started talking, then the
ball bouncers through, they end up in the finals, they're
talking about my brother's resilience and the knick three billions
and that ball bounces out. They're just talking about, oh,
(24:30):
he didn't get it done, and they've got to have
a new coach. You have to understand that if you
want to coach, even at the high school level, those
are the moments that people are gonna judge you on,
because quite honestly, it's hard to judge coaches. You're judging
them on the result. And as a coach you have
(24:51):
to you have to realize that, I mean, I had
a moment when I was the head coach in Orlando.
Actually the year we ended up going to the finals
in two thousand and nine. We go down in that
series three to two, and at one point in the series,
(25:14):
I think it was game four, Yeah, it was game four.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
They tie up the series.
Speaker 6 (25:21):
We blitz Paul Pierce on the last play of the
game because I've seen Paul Pierce kill us enough and
kill other people enough. And Glynn big Baby Davis, not
a great time to be bringing up his name, but
blin big Baby Davis knocks down a jump shot, wide
open shot to win the game. And they asked me
(25:43):
afterwards was it the right move? And I said, well,
obviously it wasn't the right move, because the right move
gets the right result. We get judged on the result
we lost. I said, but now if you want to
ask the second question, would I.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
Do it again? Hell?
Speaker 6 (26:00):
Yes, because I'm not gonna get beat by Paul Pierce,
you know.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
And we ended up.
Speaker 6 (26:05):
Winning the series and moving on to the Conference finals
and the and the whole thing. But you have to
understand as a coach that you're judged on the result.
And I think Jeff's illustration of ball in the air
freeze it right there.
Speaker 5 (26:21):
You got your team the same shot you got them
to that point.
Speaker 6 (26:25):
Now, whether you're a good coach or a bad coach
depends on the bounce you get.
Speaker 5 (26:30):
That's the way it goes.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
If it bounces out. We need a new voice.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
This team is right, We need a new voice. And
we're holding everybody accountable.
Speaker 6 (26:39):
Only one person's gonna lose his job, but we're all accountable.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 7 (26:46):
Let's say the phone rings tomorrow from Team X. What
are the chances that they could talk you into doing
this one more time?
Speaker 6 (26:53):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Hell yes, Oh hell yes.
Speaker 6 (26:56):
Because again I think in the same thing with my brother,
and I think, really, anybody who goes into it. You
said it earlier, Mark, we know what it's all about.
We know what's baked into this. That's what it's that's
what it's all about.
Speaker 5 (27:12):
And so you get into it, and you do it
again and again and again.
Speaker 6 (27:16):
If you get the opportunity because of the competitive challenge,
because the camaraderie of being around a team, you know,
you do it for a lot of other reasons. But
you know damn well that that's possible. So you take
the good with the bad. Now, what I don't think
people really understand, you know, when fans are What I've
(27:42):
tried to get across the fans is when you're calling
for somebody to get fired. Listen, I don't expect any
sympathy for a head coach.
Speaker 5 (27:54):
We make a lot of money, Like.
Speaker 6 (27:55):
You said, it's baked into it. But I don't think
people understand and that there's a lot of other people
who are making middle class salaries fifty thousand, sixty thousand,
and seventy thousand that that head coach employed that are
also going to lose their jobs.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
And I'm not asking for sympathy.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
Again, we all know what goes on, but I don't
even think fans understand.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
Like they just say, Hey, that guy.
Speaker 6 (28:25):
You know, Frank Bogel's gonna walk away with a lot
of money. Well guess what, his assistant video guy is
not going to walk away with a lot of money.
And so I just wish people wouldn't be quite as
flippant about calling for people to be fired. When I
went through it in Detroit, I was also the president.
(28:46):
I had fifty people under me, and I had a
lot of damn good people who were good professionals and
good people who were just trying to support their families
and stuff who were out of work. And I don't
think fans realize that when they have the bloodlust, they do.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
To get rid of it, to get rid of guys.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
No, I totally hear you.
Speaker 7 (29:12):
And look, I don't want to make myself sound like
a saint, but there was a situation earlier this week
where I heard about some coaching changes with a Western
Conference team, and it's like, you know, I don't know,
do I really want to do we really need to
list these assistants who are not hugely public figures but
they've lost their jobs.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Like it's just it is. It's a I mean.
Speaker 7 (29:32):
Assistant coaching now is so ridiculously volatile.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Like assistant coaching, you are.
Speaker 7 (29:38):
Literally going year to year almost unless you are you know,
maybe it's different if you are the number one guy
attached to a really marquee coach, but I mean, assistant
coaching is just zero security at this point.
Speaker 6 (29:52):
Well, it's really it's just really hard. And what I
say to people all the time, you know, if I'm
talking especially to young coaches or guys that are out
trying to get back in things like that, and this
would apply I think to the.
Speaker 5 (30:11):
College level as where as well as the NBA level.
Speaker 6 (30:14):
I just say, look, I've been at this a long time,
and I know for a fact there's far more good
coaches than there are jobs. Whether we're talking head coaching
jobs or assistant coaching jobs.
Speaker 5 (30:30):
There's a lot more good coaches than there are jobs.
Speaker 6 (30:32):
That's just the way it is, and it's really really competitive,
and so if you're gonna be in this, you just
got to accept the craziness for what it is.
Speaker 7 (30:47):
This might have already happened, because if I was in
his position, I would certainly be calling you for advice.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
What do you do if your.
Speaker 7 (30:54):
Phone rings and JJ Reddick is asking you should I
take a high profile coach job.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
In the NBA with no NBA experience?
Speaker 7 (31:04):
Like, what what would you suggest if he asked you
or asked for your wisdom?
Speaker 6 (31:11):
Well, listen, I mean I think this probably with every opportunity, Mark,
I'd probably be the same.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
And you know, in your business and everything.
Speaker 6 (31:20):
Else, it probably the ideal that wouldn't be the ideal
path to becoming a head coach.
Speaker 5 (31:26):
The ideal path you would get some experience and everything else, but.
Speaker 6 (31:32):
You don't get to pick when your opportunities are going
to come, and there's only thirty of these jobs. And
so if he came to me and said, hey, I've
got a chance at this.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
You know, I'd say jump at it. You know.
Speaker 6 (31:46):
Look, Jason Kidd did it right after his coaching career.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
Ended, and now he's bounced to his third job.
Speaker 6 (31:55):
But I always thought that Jason was a good coach.
I don't think there is a There's not just one
path to becoming a successful coach. And so there's guys
out there that were never assistant. Steve Kerr was never
an assistant. Then you've got Eric Spolster who came from
(32:16):
the video room to the booth or to the bench
and then was in it, you know, didn't get to
the head coaching job. There's just not one path to
get there. And so even if the path isn't ideal
or it comes with certain challenges, if you get an opportunity,
there's only thirty of these jobs, you got to take
(32:38):
it when the opportunity comes.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
I have my last question on this coach, and I
want to ask the style.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Want to ask you about the playoffs stand So Stein
brought in about how you know there's almost a built
dance scapegoat clause into coaches contract, So I want to
know how much should that escapegoat clause account for?
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Like it, since we already have a we already have us.
Speaker 5 (33:03):
You already know that the coach is going to be
the first one to be let go.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
It seems like I should be public, all right.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
This coach gets this high profile NBA job, he has
a two million dollar scapegoat.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
Well, look, Chris, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (33:23):
From what I've read, Frank's walking away with twenty plus
million dollars.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
I don't know what Darvin's walking away with.
Speaker 6 (33:31):
But but listen, it is built into what we do
as head coaches, and we.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
All walk away with pretty good money.
Speaker 6 (33:39):
Again, Like I look at stuff and I shake my
head with the decisions are made. But I won't really
talk about fairness because this is just the job. And
if we want to get down to fairness, we also
have to say, you know, why do you get six
(34:00):
eight ten million dollars a year to coach an NBA
team and teachers get sixty thousand to do something that's
actually important? So fairness is out the window. You know,
I don't worry about that. But the salary does build
in and again that's why when these things come down,
I do empathize with the coaches because I've been there.
(34:24):
I empathize with them, but I sympathize with the guys
Mark was talking about the assistant coaches, their families, and
even lower down the totem pole, the player development guys,
you know, the video people, all of those people who
are out of work when a new regime comes in.
(34:45):
That's who I reserve my sympathy for.
Speaker 7 (34:59):
So we're record this in the afternoon, so it's before
the Friday night game, so it's kind of hard for
us to dig into the action that's gonna unfold shortly
after we wrap this up.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
But I did want to ask you.
Speaker 7 (35:11):
I know, you guys in particular, have been locked in
on the Knicks and the Pacers, and you're you've been
working in the East, I think really first round and
second round. But Minnesota Denver going into this game three
Friday night. Again, we're finishing this pod before that game
is played. Butt what Minnesota has done in these first
(35:32):
two games to discombobulate the Nuggets to win two games
in Denver, which is just about as tough a place
to play as there is on the NBA map. Just
wanted to get your impressions about this Wolves team and
are we do we actually have a new title favorite
in the NBA right now?
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Well, I don't know about that.
Speaker 6 (35:53):
I mean, i'd say we certainly have a new Western
Conference favorite maybe, but they and Boston would be the too.
But what they have done to Denver, I'm with you,
it's been absolutely incredible.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
And they even.
Speaker 6 (36:07):
Dominated Game two defensively without Rudy Gobert. I mean, you know,
so you took the defensive player of the year out
and you still frustrated the Denver Nuggets. And I think
what's been amazing is the way they've been able to
defend Yo Kitchen Murray like because Yo Kitchen Murray have
(36:29):
proven over the years. These are two guys who have
been able to raise their level in the playoffs. I mean,
these are two of the best playoff performers we've had
in the recent history.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
Of the NBA.
Speaker 6 (36:44):
They've got Yo Kic shooting forty two percent from the
floor and turning the ball over eleven times in two games.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
And they got Murray.
Speaker 6 (36:53):
Averaging twelve and a half points on twenty eight percent.
Speaker 5 (36:56):
From the floor.
Speaker 6 (36:57):
That's phenomenal. And if you would have going into the series.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
That Edwards and Towns.
Speaker 6 (37:07):
Were going to totally outplay Yokichen Murray, somebody would have
told you you were crazy. You would have been happy
if they could have held their own And Anthony Edwards
and Karl Anthony Towns are not only averaging thirty five
and twenty three and a half, but they're both shooting
over sixty percent from the floor. This has been total domination.
(37:30):
And then the next factor, obviously is.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
The bench play.
Speaker 6 (37:34):
Minnesota with nas Reed and Nikhil Alexander Walker have been phenomenal.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
And that Denver bench, which we knew.
Speaker 6 (37:42):
All along was gonna be a problem, has really really
struggled only thirty three points total in one hundred and
seven minutes. So it's been domination. I mean, it's impossible
to find an area a part of the game where
you feel like Denver has been as good or better
(38:04):
that gotten to the line twelve more times.
Speaker 5 (38:06):
I guess that's it. But it's been domination.
Speaker 6 (38:11):
Man, Minnesota has looked great, and that was after dominating
Phoenix in the in the first round.
Speaker 5 (38:18):
So this is a great six game run so far.
Speaker 7 (38:22):
I didn't want to ask you about the coaching situation though,
because I mean, I feel sick for Chris Finch not
being able to you know, this is his moment. This
is a guy who started coaching in England, which is
by no means a basketball country. Can you I cannot
remember that happening where a head coach got sustained an
injury to the point that he could not stand at
(38:42):
the front of the bench.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (38:45):
Look, it's terrible and I agree with you, especially with
Chris Finch's journey and how long he had to work
and wait to get this opportunity.
Speaker 5 (38:56):
And the unbelievable job he has done.
Speaker 6 (38:59):
The because I'm gonna say ninety percent of us in
the NBA world when they decided to put the two
big guys together go Bear in Towns didn't see it
ever working. And it did work, and Chris Binch was
the one to make it work. And they've done such
a great job. He should be front and center right
(39:22):
now where everybody could look at him. I will say,
I don't know Chris real well. He doesn't seem to
me like the type of guy who really cares, doesn't
need to be out front. He just wants the team
to win. It's certainly still his team. He's the guy
in charge, and he and Mike and Nori are teaming
up to do it very very well.
Speaker 5 (39:45):
Chris will get plenty of recognition, as he should.
Speaker 6 (39:48):
But yes, I feel for him not being to be
out there in the front of the bench where everybody's
where everybody's looking at him right now, because the job
he's done is certainly front and center.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Stan, We've been on the New York Pacers series and
we don't have three and four ESPN, ABC do they
have those two games?
Speaker 3 (40:11):
We have game five.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
If it gets to a game five, Stan, what was
your experience like Game two? Reggie Miller's in the broadcast
booth with you, and some chats started raining down towards
the end of the game, and Josh Hart even came
over and reiterated what the fans were saying.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
What was that.
Speaker 6 (40:30):
Experience like for you to be right there with Reggie?
I mean, it was incredible. I don't think I've ever
been at a game where a broadcaster was so front
and center. I mean, you know, I think Pacers nicks
the history of that Reggie being back, and like Reggie said,
(40:51):
he'd been in that building as a broadcaster plenty of times,
but not in a PACER's Knicks playoff game. And man,
I certainly have never seen a broadcaster getting chanted.
Speaker 5 (41:05):
At like that.
Speaker 6 (41:06):
I mean, f you, Reggie, I mean and I guess
Josh Hart was just worried that that maybe through the
headsets we didn't hear it. He wanted to be clear,
because to be clear, Josh didn't come over with any
nalice in his mannerisms or his voice.
Speaker 5 (41:26):
He just hey, I just wanted to make sure you
know what they're saying.
Speaker 6 (41:31):
It was unbelievable, but Reggie was a was a really
good sport all night. And Reggie's not only a great broadcaster,
not only was a great player, but he's one of
the great ambassadors of the game, and I think he
understands his role in promoting the NBA.
Speaker 5 (41:50):
So it was a.
Speaker 6 (41:51):
Lot of fun to be there. I'm sure you felt
it too, you know, Brian sort of after orchestrated everything,
Rian Anderson and then Reggie was there as the focal
plane and we had a great game to go with too.
Speaker 5 (42:08):
Probably my most enjoyable.
Speaker 6 (42:10):
Night of U of broadcasting in UH in the four
years I've done it.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
Yeah, I was about to ask did you feel safe
that night sitting next to Reggie? I don't have to
sit next to y'all.
Speaker 5 (42:22):
Coming. Yeah, I thought about, you know, I thought about.
Speaker 6 (42:26):
Wearing a helmet. I thought we might get some stuff
thrown at us.
Speaker 5 (42:29):
But but we didn't, so that was okay.
Speaker 6 (42:33):
And we didn't have Reggie walk over with us Christy Arena.
We walked ourselves so we didn't have to deal with that.
We had to got to sneak Reggie into the building.
So uh, but no, it was uh, it was a
lot of fun and and Reggie's always uh always great
to work with, as you know.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
Yeah, well, well stand man, I held you longer than
I then I asked request it. I want to say
thank you for for coming on man. I I enjoy
I just want to tell you for first of all,
I enjoy your friendship. I appreciate that, but I enjoy
just hearing you talk hoops man. Like when we're in
those meetings with the coaches before the game, sty and
(43:11):
you was just here, Stan and Spostra whoever, They're just
talking shop basketball, hoops this, and I was like, I
just like listening and taking all that stuff in and
on top of that is personality and everything.
Speaker 5 (43:24):
Man.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
One thing about Stan. Stan doesn't bullshit anybody. He's gonna
tell you what he sees, and oftentimes he's telling the coaches, no,
that's not what's happening.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
This is what.
Speaker 6 (43:41):
Every once in a while, only if they asked, you know,
like you didn't think we played hard and shit, no
I didn't, you know.
Speaker 7 (43:52):
Now, those meetings are priceless, of course, ninety eight percent,
which is not supposed to it's never supposed to leave
the room, but.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
They are like on on radio.
Speaker 7 (44:00):
I got to go to some of those with Hubie
and just watch Hubie hub grill some of these guys,
which I always enjoyed. So yeah, now I'm sure I
would love to see a Stanspo pregame coaches meeting session.
Speaker 6 (44:13):
Mark, I'm glad you brought Hubee up when I was coaching.
He was absolutely the best in those meetings. I'll never forget.
I had, you know, Dwayne Wade as a rookie and
he had a great rookie year. We went to the
second round, lost to Indiana. But Hubie would come in
for those games and he would say, Stan, Dwayne Wade
(44:37):
leads the NBA in turnovers.
Speaker 5 (44:39):
So I just like him, what are you gonna do
about that? You know? Boy? You know he was the
best because he was so prepared.
Speaker 6 (44:53):
He never he never came at you just with like
some opinion off the top of his head.
Speaker 5 (44:59):
He drilled down on it. He'd watched he'd looked at
the numbers.
Speaker 6 (45:03):
And he was gonna ask you the uh, the real
deal on questions and stuff, and you knew you were
gonna gonna have to be ready to answer him. So
QB's one of the greats in the business, both as
a coach and a broadcaster. Always appreciated talking to him.
I still appreciate listening to him. I've always had great
(45:27):
respect for the older guys, the guys that came before
me in coaching, and I've learned a lot from QB.
Speaker 5 (45:36):
Brown over the years.
Speaker 6 (45:39):
Used to go to his training camps when he was
with the next attended coaching.
Speaker 5 (45:44):
Clinics that he did.
Speaker 6 (45:46):
Great privilege to have been able to hear QUB Brown
through the years.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
I'm going to end it with this, SBG.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
You know, obviously, as a sideline reporter, a part of
my job is interviewing the coaches during the game, and
a lot of times, depending on the game, and depending
on the time and circumstance, that can be a tough task.
At the end of the first quarter is pretty easy
dealing with a coach. Not much, not much can go
(46:16):
wrong in the first quarter. A lot of times it does,
but not much. But the end of the third, going
to that fourth, that's when the coaches really are trying
to get get into their game plan. And so again
it depends on I dictate, like at the end of
the third quarter out you know, depending on if the
coach went on a if the coach is on the
wrong end of a ten to oh run to close
(46:38):
that quarter off, I know that coach is not in
the move to talk. So I mainly asked one question,
but stay, I remember you told the story.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
I want to end it with that.
Speaker 4 (46:47):
I remember you told a story about your experiences and
dealing with sideline reporters and how you had.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
To adapt over time. Can you talk about that?
Speaker 6 (46:56):
Yeah, I think it was probably the year we were
going to the final in two thousand and nine and
my brother was broadcasting for ABC, and you know, my
brother just said to me, like, hey, you know what,
you got to.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
Be better with least a salter.
Speaker 6 (47:15):
She was a sideline reporter said, you know, I know
nobody likes to do those.
Speaker 5 (47:21):
He said, she knows nobody likes to do.
Speaker 6 (47:23):
Those, but it's her job. You owe her more respect
and understand that. And it changed me for the rest
of the time. I'm not saying I was always the
best guy, like Michael Malone's probably the beast, right.
Speaker 5 (47:39):
I mean, he's fantastic.
Speaker 6 (47:41):
But the one thing with my brother is, you know
you talked about me telling the truth my brother.
Speaker 5 (47:50):
You know, we all need people in our lives. I
firmly believe this.
Speaker 6 (47:55):
You need people in your life who will tell you
the truth, not just what you want to hear. And
my brother's always been that guy for me. He just
told me the truth, which was basically, you're being an asshole,
Like you know, you don't need to be that short
with the answers are rude. Answer her questions. That's her job.
And I've tried to do that since because he, you know,
(48:21):
just changed my perspective. And I think most guys in
the media would say that. Through my years, I know
I had my moments, but for the most time part
I was good with the media because I had the
appreciation that you know, everybody in the media has got
their jobs to do too, and so you've got to
(48:41):
give them the respect that they're due.
Speaker 5 (48:43):
And that was that moment.
Speaker 6 (48:45):
Changed me with those with those sideline reports, and you
guys have tough jobs when you're doing that, and you're
right the into the first quarter, no big deal, into
the third quarter, you know. I remember one I had
one interview Chris where we're down like eighteen and you
know the cutoffs twenty down twenty.
Speaker 5 (49:06):
We don't do the interview, and I Forkid who was doing.
Speaker 6 (49:09):
The sideline, and I said, well, hell, the only thing
that could have happened if we could have given up
one more bucket, at least.
Speaker 5 (49:15):
I wouldn't have to do that.
Speaker 6 (49:18):
So I mean, my god, if we're gonna get blown
out anyway, go ahead.
Speaker 5 (49:23):
Makes as bad as can But.
Speaker 6 (49:26):
I got better with those, and I got my brother,
as I do for a lot of things.
Speaker 5 (49:30):
I've got my brother sent for that.
Speaker 7 (49:32):
We need that podcast someday, man, we need the world.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
According to the Van Gundy's.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
Podcast Classic, it will be a classic.
Speaker 6 (49:41):
I don't think it would be as good as you
guys think. I think we became fridge sights all the time.
Speaker 5 (49:45):
Like, can you believe all the dumb crap these dude.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
Just said I would be a classic?
Speaker 4 (49:52):
And Stan has comed Stan is not the same Stan
he was on social media.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
Years ago.
Speaker 6 (50:01):
No, No, my wife got me off social media and
my mood has been better for the last two years.
Speaker 5 (50:08):
Social media when.
Speaker 6 (50:09):
You get into the political stuff, yeah, social media takes
on a whole new thing. And I was just fighting
and angry all the time. So now I still get angry.
Speaker 5 (50:21):
About political stuff, but it doesn't.
Speaker 6 (50:22):
Rub up because I'm not on there having people piss
me off even more.
Speaker 4 (50:27):
No, I hear you stay social media, man, I don't
want to get on that. That's another topic for another day.
Thank you, brother. I see you got the sun out there.
I see the palm trees breezing. Man, like God leda,
I look so beautiful, man.
Speaker 5 (50:43):
This is what this is what I call work right here,
this is beautiful. We'll stand.
Speaker 4 (50:49):
I appreciate you for coming on, man, we've been waiting
for that. Thank you for your time. I hopefully will
see you Game five in New York.
Speaker 7 (50:58):
Absolutely, thanks so much for doing it, and that'll do
it for us.
Speaker 5 (51:05):
See you next time.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
This league Uncut is an iHeartRadio Production Loca Chris Haynes
and Mark Stein
Welcome to this League uncut in were the twenty four
hour NBA News.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
This is you.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Chris Haynes's telling Mark Stein it's some time. This league
un cut is underway and on fire. This should be
a good one.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Yes, indeed, this will be a great one. I should say.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
I told you, Stein Stein, I told you, I told
you for months.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I said it's going to happen. It's going to happen.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Everybody, Welcome back to hashtag this League uncut. I'm your host,
Chris Haynes and Mark stein Stein. I told you it
was going to happen, and it finally happened. It finally
did so, I'm pretty sure listeners asking what happened, what's
going on, I'm gonna tell you what was going on.
(00:58):
I got stan Van Gunn himself. He's here available to
come on our podcast. I'm very excited. This is my
broadcast partner with T and T. You guys know him
as the legendary coach. But he's doing He's over there
in the broadcast booth with me. And I asked him
on the same day. I asked him on the same day,
(01:19):
you know, and he came through. I know he has
a lot of things to do. But I appreciate him
for taking the time to join us. Stan, I appreciate
you brother, Thank you for coming on absolutely.
Speaker 5 (01:30):
Chris, anytime you know that for teammates, that's what you do.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
Stein.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I can't wait to hear what it's like to travel
with you.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Mark.
Speaker 6 (01:40):
We don't end up traveling together much because you know,
Chris coming from Sacramento and I'm coming from Florida.
Speaker 5 (01:46):
So we just connect when we get that.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
And Stan's taking us like he really takes care of
us on the road.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
He treated us to a suite at a baseball game
in San Francisco Giant Baseball game.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
It often takes us to dinner.
Speaker 5 (02:03):
I had the pleasure.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
Sine of joining him and his brother Jeff van Gunny
for dinner.
Speaker 5 (02:09):
We had dinner at well, what was that place?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Italian Place in Boston.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
Aria, Aria in Austin.
Speaker 6 (02:16):
Yeah, it was a PJ Carlistimo recommendation. And you can
never go wrong if PJ Carlismo's recommending.
Speaker 7 (02:25):
No, that is true, PJ. I've seen PJ now three
times in the playoffs. I got to work with him
at ESBN for years, and I know I love food
and I care about restaurants, but I don't think there
is anyone in the history of the sport who cares
more about the postgame meal than PJ Carlssimo. So if he,
(02:48):
if he hooked you guys up, then it would had
to be good.
Speaker 5 (02:50):
Well it is, But Mark, I can't do the post
games with PJ. I don't know how you got with him.
I mean, you know, PJ wants to go eat. It's
like I'm like.
Speaker 7 (03:03):
Man, and that's early. I mean I remember an All
Star game. I remember an All Star game in New
Orleans and he had his kids with him who were
young at the time, and we must have you know,
every city in the league. PJ knows someone who will
keep their place open late for him, and it must
(03:23):
have been midnight when we sat down, and his kids
were ten and twelve. But no, there is there is
nothing that will stop coach Carlissimo from the postgame meal.
Speaker 6 (03:32):
No, there certainly is not one of the all time
great people in the game.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Well, Stan again, thank you for coming on and join us.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
You know, we got some interesting playoff series going on,
and we're going to get to that.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
But I want to, I want to. I gotta touch
on these coaching.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Moves that the Phoenix Sons and Los Angeles Lakers are
on the verge of making. But obviously we know they
let go at Darby Ham after two seasons, Phoenix Sons.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Let go of Frank Vogel after.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
One season, and the Suns are bringing on coach Buenholzer.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Your I guess your initial thoughts on that move.
Speaker 6 (04:12):
Well, the on the Phoenix thing, I mean, you know,
I think what always sort of gets me is if
you look at the organizations that have success consistently in
the league, continuity is a big part of it. And
(04:33):
so you look at Miami and people say, oh, well,
they always win, that's why they've had Sposter for as
long as they have, But that's not true. Before they
went to the finals in the Bubble, they had missed
the playoffs, what three out of four, three out of
five years.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
But they don't just make a move.
Speaker 6 (04:52):
They understand that continuity helps you you stay on the
same page with the type of players you want and
the players that will fit the coach and fit the organization.
Speaker 5 (05:06):
And as much as.
Speaker 6 (05:07):
People see how continuity works, they had some disappointing years
in Denver, they stuck with Michael Malone.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
They stuck with their key players. It got better.
Speaker 6 (05:20):
No matter how many times people see it work, most
of the people twenty seven to twenty eight teams in
the league can't figure it out, and so they just
keep changing.
Speaker 5 (05:31):
And so now the Phoenix Sun's.
Speaker 6 (05:33):
Third coach in three years, and we'll see if Mike
Budenholzer can make it to game one of his second
year with Phoenix, which would make him.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
Matdishbia's longest lasting yet.
Speaker 6 (05:50):
You know. But here's the thing, Listen, I don't have
any problem. They pay us a lot of money to
coach in this league. Owners front offices have every right
to make a change whenever they want. But please spare
me the ba that James Jones came out with saying
we all have accountability here.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
I read that and I said, oh really, James, So explain.
Speaker 6 (06:17):
To me what your accountability looks like for putting together
a roster with no point guard, no defensive stopper.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
I just like, explain to.
Speaker 6 (06:29):
Me what your accountability looks like, because you still have
a job. Explain to me what the rest of the
front office is accountability looks like. Explain to me what
Matt Ishby's accountability.
Speaker 5 (06:41):
Looks like that was a BS line.
Speaker 6 (06:44):
One guy was held accountable, one guy that was it,
no one else was held accountable. And then with Darvin Ham, look,
I mean he took him to the Western Conference finals
in his first year, a big over achievement I think
in the minds of most of us. And then this
year they went into the playoffs and gave Denver a
(07:07):
great first round series.
Speaker 5 (07:08):
I know, it only went five games.
Speaker 6 (07:10):
I don't think I've ever seen a team losing five
games in a series where they led for over seventy
percent of the minute. So, look, expectations are what they are.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
In LA.
Speaker 6 (07:23):
They fired Frank Bogel two years after winning a championship.
So those guys both got caught in two of the
crazier situations in this league. But they both take a
lot of money home with them, deservedly so, and I
hope they both get opportunities going forward.
Speaker 7 (07:47):
Yeah, it's interesting when you mentioned the money, because I
think there is a perspective out there now, or a
viewpoint that suggests that part of the reason your salaries
are on the rise is because the blame is baked in.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I mean, I don't know how fair that is.
Speaker 7 (08:01):
It cannot be a fun experience when you're actually doing
the job and you know it. But it just it
almost seems like the blame is factored into the contracts
that are being handed out today, that coaches know that
they're the first person in line who is going to
get the blame when things go awry.
Speaker 5 (08:22):
Yeah, and you.
Speaker 6 (08:22):
Know what, I don't even looked at it really mark
as a as a fairness issue. I mean, professional sports
aren't about fairness. Like I said, The thing I mainly
objected to was the BS statement that Phoenix put out.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
But fairness doesn't really enter into it.
Speaker 6 (08:43):
What I wonder about is the people who constantly make
coaching changes.
Speaker 5 (08:52):
Just somebody please explain to.
Speaker 6 (08:55):
Me or show me where that has worked. I mean
it doesn't. People who stick with people. I'm not saying forever,
but stick with people and have some continuity.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
Look, I've talked to a lot of NBA scouts.
Speaker 6 (09:10):
It's a lot easier to go out there and do
your job when you sort of know what your team
is looking for, what's our style of play going to be,
who's going to get playing time with that particular coach.
I think the New York Knicks have done a tremendous
job of putting players on.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Their roster that fit with Tom Thibodeau.
Speaker 6 (09:30):
I think the Miami Heat always does a good job
of putting people on their roster that fit with Eric Spolstra.
You know, the Denver Nuggets know who they want to
put with Michael Malone and with Nikola Jokic.
Speaker 5 (09:45):
I don't know how you do your job as a front.
Speaker 6 (09:48):
Officer as a scout where you went out and you said, hey,
this guy would be a good fit, and then you say,
oh no, now we're going in a different direction. Oh
now we're going in a different direction. It's hard for
your organization to be successful, and yet owners in front
offices just keep doing it.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
So fairness aside.
Speaker 6 (10:09):
To me, it's about being successful and being about making
moves that makes sense. And I don't see how any
of this does a lot of times, let's face it,
it's a cover your ass move.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
Just screwed up.
Speaker 6 (10:23):
As a front office, you didn't put a good enough
roster together, and rather than working on that and making
your roster better, it's just easier to.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
Avoid blame and blame the head coach.
Speaker 6 (10:36):
That Phoenix roster from day one wasn't about fit.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
It was about going out.
Speaker 6 (10:42):
And getting the biggest names possible to put on the
back of their uniforms. I mean, look, they thought they
were contenders. Who are the other contending teams.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
That don't have a point guard?
Speaker 6 (10:55):
Who are the other contending teams where you can't name
a defensive stopper in their starting lineup. It was a
ridiculous roster they put together, and they held their head
coach accountable.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
Makes no sense.
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Yeah, I have reported that Vogel wanted a point guard,
one of they starting point guard on that roster, but
the front office felt like that will be taking the
ball away from taking the ball away from KD. Devin
Booker and Bradley Beal felt like they needed the ball
in their hands.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
That was their explanation. Yeah, it didn't.
Speaker 6 (11:31):
Work, and so Frank got held accountable because you know,
we certainly have not seen over the last few years
with Jamal Murray and Steph Curry and guys like that,
that the point guard would be important. I mean, we've
never we've never really seen the importance of that position
in the NBA.
Speaker 7 (11:51):
Well, and it also seems like, you know, relationships with
your star players like that is always it's probably being
more prioritize now than ever. So to my knowledge, I
don't think Mike Budenholzer has worked with Durant or Booker
or Beal in the past, so he's really walking in
there totally fresh. How hard is that for a coach
(12:14):
to go into a new organization with you know, ownership
is talking championship or bust. Obviously they've spent a bazillion
dollars on the roster. They don't have flexibility to make changes.
How hard is that just for a coach to walk
into a new program and start from scratch.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
Yeah, I mean it's never easy, Mark.
Speaker 6 (12:33):
I mean, you know, you're getting to know new players
and you've got to get the pieces to fit together.
You've got to get buy in from your key guys.
But look, every coaching situation has challenges, and you'd certainly
rather go into a situation even that has challenges, but
it at least has talent than not having talent. So
(12:57):
Mike Budenholzer has dealt with that obviously with Giannis in
Milwaukee and the whole thing. And I mean, we want
to get into ridiculous coaching hires and fires. We don't
need to go any further than the Milwaukee Bucks, who
who got rid of Mike Budenholzer because they lost in
the first round with Yannis hurt, so they went out
(13:19):
and hired a guy who went thirty and thirteen, made
a coaching change there, and Yannis.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
Got hurt again.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
I mean, look, it's almost like you can't make this
stuff up. So Mike Budenholzer is a great coach, and
we'll do a.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
Hell of a job.
Speaker 6 (13:36):
But I've seen great coaches in this league, and I've
yet to see a miracle worker. And I've yet to
see anybody win win a championship with a roster that
wasn't good enough. So you know, his job there will
be to maximize what he has.
Speaker 5 (13:56):
Whoever has the Lakers, same job.
Speaker 6 (13:59):
It's what it always maximize what you've got, which is
all you can.
Speaker 5 (14:03):
Do as a coach, and that will never supersede the
roster itself. Coach.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
I did a bleacher Report live stream just before we
hopped on this podcast, and you know, I was reported
Jalen Brunston is going to play tonight.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
You know we worked the game where he heard his foot.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
But another one of my reports was I reported Doc
Rivers dismissed a few assistant coaches recently. Those assistants were
Josh Oppenheimer, DJ Baker and Sydney Dobner. And could you
talk about have you ever been in a situation where
(14:42):
you had to relieve some assistants that weren't on your
original like that they were holdovers from a previous coaching regimen,
And what is that process?
Speaker 6 (14:52):
Like?
Speaker 4 (14:53):
I know people saw that and they might not understand,
but this is Doc's this is Doc fine. They get
an opportunity to bring in his own staff. He just
talk about that type of transition.
Speaker 5 (15:04):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 6 (15:05):
I mean I don't think that was necessarily Doc, you know,
not thinking guys were any good.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
I mean most of us, at least of us.
Speaker 6 (15:18):
Older guys who go on the old formula where you
get to hire your own staff, you.
Speaker 5 (15:23):
Know, you have you wanna want to have.
Speaker 6 (15:26):
And I think that's what Doc was. And the only
thing that's different about this is he came in mid season,
so he couldn't dismiss everybody then, so he had to
sort of make it work with the guys he had.
Now they're in a position where he can create his
own staff, you know, around he's got Dave Jeger. He's
got Rex Kallamian, you know, now he can add to that.
(15:48):
And so unfortunately, you know, some people have to have
to go to bring new people in. And I feel
for all those guys, but I think we all know,
and including those guys who've gotta let go, that's just
unfortunately the nature of the business.
Speaker 7 (16:09):
Chris said when he went out to dinner with you
guys that when just watching you and Jeff, like that
should have been a TV show in itself, that it
was that good to watch you guys joust. What are
the chances that we will ever get a Stan Van
Gundy Jeff Van Gundy basketball podcast that just to me
seems like a natural.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
Yeah, you know, I don't.
Speaker 6 (16:31):
Maybe at the time where we get to the time
mark where no one else will employ us to coach
or talk about basketball, maybe then we'll have to do
it ourselves. But right now we've been lucky enough that
other people will pay us, and we've been busy with
other things.
Speaker 5 (16:52):
There would be a lot of back and forth and
a lot of disagreement and probably at times a lot
of yelling and screaming.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
And ain't that's that's exactly what it's like st that's
exactly you would think they'll be so close there would
be a lot of agreements.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
No, it's not, it's more than other way.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (17:15):
Look, and here's the thing from my standpoint, Guys, like
I think, when you're gonna get in something where there's
a lot of disagreement, if you're gonna do that publicly,
you would want to be the smarter guy in all
of those things.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
And I'm not.
Speaker 6 (17:35):
So that's not that's not one. I don't mind the
private back and forth. I don't think I want to.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
Go be getting my ass kicked publicly.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
He's that sharp.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
He's pretty sharp, but I mean and uh, pretty quick
on his feet in one of the best basketball minds
in the business. Look, I say this knowing full well
I'm biased, but I'm really surprised that, you know, no
one has gone out and gone after him as a
(18:09):
head coach. I know it's been a long time, but look,
there's a lot of great coaches in our business. I
just don't think there's anybody better than.
Speaker 7 (18:18):
Him, your public personas like you guys came into our
world as coaches and it's you know, to me, it's
like if we would have known you guys as teenagers,
Would you have struck us as future coaches? Does it
go that far back that you feel like you were
(18:40):
both born to do this.
Speaker 6 (18:43):
I don't think anybody's born to do it, Mark, but
you would have known early on, because we're both pretty
realistic number one, and I think we both realized early
on that if we were going to have any future
in basketball, and I have to be coaching, because it
certainly wasn't gonna be players. So even though we both
(19:05):
were able to play at the small college level, neither
one of us thought, you know what, I think I
could make some money play in this game someday.
Speaker 5 (19:12):
Now that wasn't a possibility. I grew up hoping.
Speaker 6 (19:16):
You know, when I was young, I thought, you know, man,
I'd really love to be a baseball player. But when
you hit under one hundred when you're thirteen years old,
you know, like you start looking ahead.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
Going, yeah, I don't really see If.
Speaker 6 (19:29):
I went through the bios of the major league players,
I just don't think i'd see too many guys ninety
three when they were thirteen. So he started justing into
another into another line of work pretty quick, and we
grew up with a dad, who you know, coached for
over forty years, so we were around it the whole time.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
And I think not only did we see somebody.
Speaker 6 (19:53):
Who loved his job and felt he never worked today
in his life. We grew up around a lot of
other coaches, and I think we both grew up I
know we did.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
We both grew up.
Speaker 6 (20:06):
Both liking and respecting other coaches.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
So that's where we both always wanted to be.
Speaker 6 (20:13):
The fact that we were able to get to the
level we did, I mean, that was just a lot
of luck, and I think we both are still in
shock that.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
We made it to the level that we did. That
reminds me of myself. Baseball was my first love growing up.
My dad was a big baseball fan. My dad's brother
played semi pro baseball. I loved it. I just couldn't
play it. And I was a decent hitter. When I
(20:47):
say decent, I probably I'm probably bat in two twenty something,
you know, decent.
Speaker 5 (20:54):
As a junior high school.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
But I couldn't play the outfield to save my life,
meaning I couldn't judge the ball.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Whenever bat pops off the ball, I could, I didn't,
I couldn't.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
I didn't know if going to go back or go
go forward, like so there's no DH in junior high
and high school.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
You can't be a day so there was no place
for me.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
So that was that was kind of my movement when
I realized, okay, basic league baseball is not going to
be for me.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (21:24):
My final baseball moment, Chris, I was thirteen years old.
We were in the league championship game. I was hitting ninth,
of course, and the guy ahead of me, we were down.
We were down a run, and the guy ahead of
me and eight doubled off the fence. So now we
have the tying run on second base. I'm an I
(21:45):
strike out on three fastballs right down the middle because
nobody needed to screw around with me, like you know.
They threw it down the middle three times. I swung
and missed it all three and I was a competitive shit.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
And I got upset.
Speaker 6 (21:59):
I threw the back down, I threw my helmet down,
and my coach walks by me.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
My manager walks by.
Speaker 6 (22:06):
And he said, I don't know what you're so upset about.
You think you'd be used to it by now, And
I said, okay, that's probably it now. That guy was
like but I understand why didn't sign up to play
the next year.
Speaker 5 (22:20):
I'm like, do you remember what.
Speaker 6 (22:23):
You said to me at the end of that you know, yeah,
lost baseball baseball moment and then we were full time.
Speaker 5 (22:33):
Basketball started.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
Before we get off this coaching conversation, Stan has to
tell this story that I make Hill tell other people
about this story that Jeff Van Gonnie told about. You
remember the series I believe it was nineteen ninety nine,
Alan Houston was It was Alan Houston that I believe
it against Miami. The shot at the end where it
(22:59):
bounces up, remember that stile.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
Okay, go ahead, Stan, you take it away.
Speaker 6 (23:04):
Well, so what happened, Mark is actually my brother still
will talk about this, even though most of the coaches
you're talking to at clinics, you know, don't remember twenty
five years ago.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
But just to make the point, and it is really
a good one.
Speaker 6 (23:19):
I think at any level of basketball, if you're gonna
get into coaching, you have to understand what it's all about.
And Jeff talks about being in that series first round.
I was assistant in Miami at the time, and Mark,
you'll remember that New York was working behind the scenes
(23:39):
trying to get Phil Jackson to come there and coach.
So even though that they were saying after they didn't,
they were actively pursuing Phil Jackson, We're going to fire
my brother, the whole thing. And so here we are,
Game seven, right at the end, Allen Houston shoots the ball,
It hits the back rim, bunce is in the air,
(24:01):
and my brother says, Okay, that balls up in the air,
freeze right there.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Good coach or bad coach.
Speaker 6 (24:10):
And that's what so much of coaching comes down to,
you know, those moments because they started talking, then the
ball bouncers through, they end up in the finals, they're
talking about my brother's resilience and the knick three billions
and that ball bounces out. They're just talking about, oh,
(24:30):
he didn't get it done, and they've got to have
a new coach. You have to understand that if you
want to coach, even at the high school level, those
are the moments that people are gonna judge you on,
because quite honestly, it's hard to judge coaches. You're judging
them on the result. And as a coach you have
(24:51):
to you have to realize that, I mean, I had
a moment when I was the head coach in Orlando.
Actually the year we ended up going to the finals
in two thousand and nine. We go down in that
series three to two, and at one point in the series,
(25:14):
I think it was game four, Yeah, it was game four.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
They tie up the series.
Speaker 6 (25:21):
We blitz Paul Pierce on the last play of the
game because I've seen Paul Pierce kill us enough and
kill other people enough. And Glynn big Baby Davis, not
a great time to be bringing up his name, but
blin big Baby Davis knocks down a jump shot, wide
open shot to win the game. And they asked me
(25:43):
afterwards was it the right move? And I said, well,
obviously it wasn't the right move, because the right move
gets the right result. We get judged on the result
we lost. I said, but now if you want to
ask the second question, would I.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
Do it again? Hell?
Speaker 6 (26:00):
Yes, because I'm not gonna get beat by Paul Pierce,
you know.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
And we ended up.
Speaker 6 (26:05):
Winning the series and moving on to the Conference finals
and the and the whole thing. But you have to
understand as a coach that you're judged on the result.
And I think Jeff's illustration of ball in the air
freeze it right there.
Speaker 5 (26:21):
You got your team the same shot you got them
to that point.
Speaker 6 (26:25):
Now, whether you're a good coach or a bad coach
depends on the bounce you get.
Speaker 5 (26:30):
That's the way it goes.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
If it bounces out. We need a new voice.
Speaker 5 (26:33):
This team is right, We need a new voice. And
we're holding everybody accountable.
Speaker 6 (26:39):
Only one person's gonna lose his job, but we're all accountable.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 7 (26:46):
Let's say the phone rings tomorrow from Team X. What
are the chances that they could talk you into doing
this one more time?
Speaker 6 (26:53):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Hell yes, Oh hell yes.
Speaker 6 (26:56):
Because again I think in the same thing with my brother,
and I think, really, anybody who goes into it. You
said it earlier, Mark, we know what it's all about.
We know what's baked into this. That's what it's that's
what it's all about.
Speaker 5 (27:12):
And so you get into it, and you do it
again and again and again.
Speaker 6 (27:16):
If you get the opportunity because of the competitive challenge,
because the camaraderie of being around a team, you know,
you do it for a lot of other reasons. But
you know damn well that that's possible. So you take
the good with the bad. Now, what I don't think
people really understand, you know, when fans are What I've
(27:42):
tried to get across the fans is when you're calling
for somebody to get fired. Listen, I don't expect any
sympathy for a head coach.
Speaker 5 (27:54):
We make a lot of money, Like.
Speaker 6 (27:55):
You said, it's baked into it. But I don't think
people understand and that there's a lot of other people
who are making middle class salaries fifty thousand, sixty thousand,
and seventy thousand that that head coach employed that are
also going to lose their jobs.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
And I'm not asking for sympathy.
Speaker 6 (28:18):
Again, we all know what goes on, but I don't
even think fans understand.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
Like they just say, Hey, that guy.
Speaker 6 (28:25):
You know, Frank Bogel's gonna walk away with a lot
of money. Well guess what, his assistant video guy is
not going to walk away with a lot of money.
And so I just wish people wouldn't be quite as
flippant about calling for people to be fired. When I
went through it in Detroit, I was also the president.
(28:46):
I had fifty people under me, and I had a
lot of damn good people who were good professionals and
good people who were just trying to support their families
and stuff who were out of work. And I don't
think fans realize that when they have the bloodlust, they do.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
To get rid of it, to get rid of guys.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
No, I totally hear you.
Speaker 7 (29:12):
And look, I don't want to make myself sound like
a saint, but there was a situation earlier this week
where I heard about some coaching changes with a Western
Conference team, and it's like, you know, I don't know,
do I really want to do we really need to
list these assistants who are not hugely public figures but
they've lost their jobs.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Like it's just it is. It's a I mean.
Speaker 7 (29:32):
Assistant coaching now is so ridiculously volatile.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Like assistant coaching, you are.
Speaker 7 (29:38):
Literally going year to year almost unless you are you know,
maybe it's different if you are the number one guy
attached to a really marquee coach, but I mean, assistant
coaching is just zero security at this point.
Speaker 6 (29:52):
Well, it's really it's just really hard. And what I
say to people all the time, you know, if I'm
talking especially to young coaches or guys that are out
trying to get back in things like that, and this
would apply I think to the.
Speaker 5 (30:11):
College level as where as well as the NBA level.
Speaker 6 (30:14):
I just say, look, I've been at this a long time,
and I know for a fact there's far more good
coaches than there are jobs. Whether we're talking head coaching
jobs or assistant coaching jobs.
Speaker 5 (30:30):
There's a lot more good coaches than there are jobs.
Speaker 6 (30:32):
That's just the way it is, and it's really really competitive,
and so if you're gonna be in this, you just
got to accept the craziness for what it is.
Speaker 7 (30:47):
This might have already happened, because if I was in
his position, I would certainly be calling you for advice.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
What do you do if your.
Speaker 7 (30:54):
Phone rings and JJ Reddick is asking you should I
take a high profile coach job.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
In the NBA with no NBA experience?
Speaker 7 (31:04):
Like, what what would you suggest if he asked you
or asked for your wisdom?
Speaker 6 (31:11):
Well, listen, I mean I think this probably with every opportunity, Mark,
I'd probably be the same.
Speaker 5 (31:16):
And you know, in your business and everything.
Speaker 6 (31:20):
Else, it probably the ideal that wouldn't be the ideal
path to becoming a head coach.
Speaker 5 (31:26):
The ideal path you would get some experience and everything else, but.
Speaker 6 (31:32):
You don't get to pick when your opportunities are going
to come, and there's only thirty of these jobs. And
so if he came to me and said, hey, I've
got a chance at this.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
You know, I'd say jump at it. You know.
Speaker 6 (31:46):
Look, Jason Kidd did it right after his coaching career.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
Ended, and now he's bounced to his third job.
Speaker 6 (31:55):
But I always thought that Jason was a good coach.
I don't think there is a There's not just one
path to becoming a successful coach. And so there's guys
out there that were never assistant. Steve Kerr was never
an assistant. Then you've got Eric Spolster who came from
(32:16):
the video room to the booth or to the bench
and then was in it, you know, didn't get to
the head coaching job. There's just not one path to
get there. And so even if the path isn't ideal
or it comes with certain challenges, if you get an opportunity,
there's only thirty of these jobs, you got to take
(32:38):
it when the opportunity comes.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
I have my last question on this coach, and I
want to ask the style.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Want to ask you about the playoffs stand So Stein
brought in about how you know there's almost a built
dance scapegoat clause into coaches contract, So I want to
know how much should that escapegoat clause account for?
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Like it, since we already have a we already have us.
Speaker 5 (33:03):
You already know that the coach is going to be
the first one to be let go.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
It seems like I should be public, all right.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
This coach gets this high profile NBA job, he has
a two million dollar scapegoat.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
Well, look, Chris, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (33:23):
From what I've read, Frank's walking away with twenty plus
million dollars.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
I don't know what Darvin's walking away with.
Speaker 6 (33:31):
But but listen, it is built into what we do
as head coaches, and we.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
All walk away with pretty good money.
Speaker 6 (33:39):
Again, Like I look at stuff and I shake my
head with the decisions are made. But I won't really
talk about fairness because this is just the job. And
if we want to get down to fairness, we also
have to say, you know, why do you get six
(34:00):
eight ten million dollars a year to coach an NBA
team and teachers get sixty thousand to do something that's
actually important? So fairness is out the window. You know,
I don't worry about that. But the salary does build
in and again that's why when these things come down,
I do empathize with the coaches because I've been there.
(34:24):
I empathize with them, but I sympathize with the guys
Mark was talking about the assistant coaches, their families, and
even lower down the totem pole, the player development guys,
you know, the video people, all of those people who
are out of work when a new regime comes in.
(34:45):
That's who I reserve my sympathy for.
Speaker 7 (34:59):
So we're record this in the afternoon, so it's before
the Friday night game, so it's kind of hard for
us to dig into the action that's gonna unfold shortly
after we wrap this up.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
But I did want to ask you.
Speaker 7 (35:11):
I know, you guys in particular, have been locked in
on the Knicks and the Pacers, and you're you've been
working in the East, I think really first round and
second round. But Minnesota Denver going into this game three
Friday night. Again, we're finishing this pod before that game
is played. Butt what Minnesota has done in these first
(35:32):
two games to discombobulate the Nuggets to win two games
in Denver, which is just about as tough a place
to play as there is on the NBA map. Just
wanted to get your impressions about this Wolves team and
are we do we actually have a new title favorite
in the NBA right now?
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Well, I don't know about that.
Speaker 6 (35:53):
I mean, i'd say we certainly have a new Western
Conference favorite maybe, but they and Boston would be the too.
But what they have done to Denver, I'm with you,
it's been absolutely incredible.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
And they even.
Speaker 6 (36:07):
Dominated Game two defensively without Rudy Gobert. I mean, you know,
so you took the defensive player of the year out
and you still frustrated the Denver Nuggets. And I think
what's been amazing is the way they've been able to
defend Yo Kitchen Murray like because Yo Kitchen Murray have
(36:29):
proven over the years. These are two guys who have
been able to raise their level in the playoffs. I mean,
these are two of the best playoff performers we've had
in the recent history.
Speaker 5 (36:43):
Of the NBA.
Speaker 6 (36:44):
They've got Yo Kic shooting forty two percent from the
floor and turning the ball over eleven times in two games.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
And they got Murray.
Speaker 6 (36:53):
Averaging twelve and a half points on twenty eight percent.
Speaker 5 (36:56):
From the floor.
Speaker 6 (36:57):
That's phenomenal. And if you would have going into the series.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
That Edwards and Towns.
Speaker 6 (37:07):
Were going to totally outplay Yokichen Murray, somebody would have
told you you were crazy. You would have been happy
if they could have held their own And Anthony Edwards
and Karl Anthony Towns are not only averaging thirty five
and twenty three and a half, but they're both shooting
over sixty percent from the floor. This has been total domination.
(37:30):
And then the next factor, obviously is.
Speaker 5 (37:33):
The bench play.
Speaker 6 (37:34):
Minnesota with nas Reed and Nikhil Alexander Walker have been phenomenal.
Speaker 5 (37:40):
And that Denver bench, which we knew.
Speaker 6 (37:42):
All along was gonna be a problem, has really really
struggled only thirty three points total in one hundred and
seven minutes. So it's been domination. I mean, it's impossible
to find an area a part of the game where
you feel like Denver has been as good or better
(38:04):
that gotten to the line twelve more times.
Speaker 5 (38:06):
I guess that's it. But it's been domination.
Speaker 6 (38:11):
Man, Minnesota has looked great, and that was after dominating
Phoenix in the in the first round.
Speaker 5 (38:18):
So this is a great six game run so far.
Speaker 7 (38:22):
I didn't want to ask you about the coaching situation though,
because I mean, I feel sick for Chris Finch not
being able to you know, this is his moment. This
is a guy who started coaching in England, which is
by no means a basketball country. Can you I cannot
remember that happening where a head coach got sustained an
injury to the point that he could not stand at
(38:42):
the front of the bench.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (38:45):
Look, it's terrible and I agree with you, especially with
Chris Finch's journey and how long he had to work
and wait to get this opportunity.
Speaker 5 (38:56):
And the unbelievable job he has done.
Speaker 6 (38:59):
The because I'm gonna say ninety percent of us in
the NBA world when they decided to put the two
big guys together go Bear in Towns didn't see it
ever working. And it did work, and Chris Binch was
the one to make it work. And they've done such
a great job. He should be front and center right
(39:22):
now where everybody could look at him. I will say,
I don't know Chris real well. He doesn't seem to
me like the type of guy who really cares, doesn't
need to be out front. He just wants the team
to win. It's certainly still his team. He's the guy
in charge, and he and Mike and Nori are teaming
up to do it very very well.
Speaker 5 (39:45):
Chris will get plenty of recognition, as he should.
Speaker 6 (39:48):
But yes, I feel for him not being to be
out there in the front of the bench where everybody's
where everybody's looking at him right now, because the job
he's done is certainly front and center.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Stan, We've been on the New York Pacers series and
we don't have three and four ESPN, ABC do they
have those two games?
Speaker 3 (40:11):
We have game five.
Speaker 4 (40:12):
If it gets to a game five, Stan, what was
your experience like Game two? Reggie Miller's in the broadcast
booth with you, and some chats started raining down towards
the end of the game, and Josh Hart even came
over and reiterated what the fans were saying.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
What was that.
Speaker 6 (40:30):
Experience like for you to be right there with Reggie?
I mean, it was incredible. I don't think I've ever
been at a game where a broadcaster was so front
and center. I mean, you know, I think Pacers nicks
the history of that Reggie being back, and like Reggie said,
(40:51):
he'd been in that building as a broadcaster plenty of times,
but not in a PACER's Knicks playoff game. And man,
I certainly have never seen a broadcaster getting chanted.
Speaker 5 (41:05):
At like that.
Speaker 6 (41:06):
I mean, f you, Reggie, I mean and I guess
Josh Hart was just worried that that maybe through the
headsets we didn't hear it. He wanted to be clear,
because to be clear, Josh didn't come over with any
nalice in his mannerisms or his voice.
Speaker 5 (41:26):
He just hey, I just wanted to make sure you
know what they're saying.
Speaker 6 (41:31):
It was unbelievable, but Reggie was a was a really
good sport all night. And Reggie's not only a great broadcaster,
not only was a great player, but he's one of
the great ambassadors of the game, and I think he
understands his role in promoting the NBA.
Speaker 5 (41:50):
So it was a.
Speaker 6 (41:51):
Lot of fun to be there. I'm sure you felt
it too, you know, Brian sort of after orchestrated everything,
Rian Anderson and then Reggie was there as the focal
plane and we had a great game to go with too.
Speaker 5 (42:08):
Probably my most enjoyable.
Speaker 6 (42:10):
Night of U of broadcasting in UH in the four
years I've done it.
Speaker 4 (42:15):
Yeah, I was about to ask did you feel safe
that night sitting next to Reggie? I don't have to
sit next to y'all.
Speaker 5 (42:22):
Coming. Yeah, I thought about, you know, I thought about.
Speaker 6 (42:26):
Wearing a helmet. I thought we might get some stuff
thrown at us.
Speaker 5 (42:29):
But but we didn't, so that was okay.
Speaker 6 (42:33):
And we didn't have Reggie walk over with us Christy Arena.
We walked ourselves so we didn't have to deal with that.
We had to got to sneak Reggie into the building.
So uh, but no, it was uh, it was a
lot of fun and and Reggie's always uh always great
to work with, as you know.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
Yeah, well, well stand man, I held you longer than
I then I asked request it. I want to say
thank you for for coming on man. I I enjoy
I just want to tell you for first of all,
I enjoy your friendship. I appreciate that, but I enjoy
just hearing you talk hoops man. Like when we're in
those meetings with the coaches before the game, sty and
(43:11):
you was just here, Stan and Spostra whoever, They're just
talking shop basketball, hoops this, and I was like, I
just like listening and taking all that stuff in and
on top of that is personality and everything.
Speaker 5 (43:24):
Man.
Speaker 4 (43:25):
One thing about Stan. Stan doesn't bullshit anybody. He's gonna
tell you what he sees, and oftentimes he's telling the coaches, no,
that's not what's happening.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
This is what.
Speaker 6 (43:41):
Every once in a while, only if they asked, you know,
like you didn't think we played hard and shit, no
I didn't, you know.
Speaker 7 (43:52):
Now, those meetings are priceless, of course, ninety eight percent,
which is not supposed to it's never supposed to leave
the room, but.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
They are like on on radio.
Speaker 7 (44:00):
I got to go to some of those with Hubie
and just watch Hubie hub grill some of these guys,
which I always enjoyed. So yeah, now I'm sure I
would love to see a Stanspo pregame coaches meeting session.
Speaker 6 (44:13):
Mark, I'm glad you brought Hubee up when I was coaching.
He was absolutely the best in those meetings. I'll never forget.
I had, you know, Dwayne Wade as a rookie and
he had a great rookie year. We went to the
second round, lost to Indiana. But Hubie would come in
for those games and he would say, Stan, Dwayne Wade
(44:37):
leads the NBA in turnovers.
Speaker 5 (44:39):
So I just like him, what are you gonna do
about that? You know? Boy? You know he was the
best because he was so prepared.
Speaker 6 (44:53):
He never he never came at you just with like
some opinion off the top of his head.
Speaker 5 (44:59):
He drilled down on it. He'd watched he'd looked at
the numbers.
Speaker 6 (45:03):
And he was gonna ask you the uh, the real
deal on questions and stuff, and you knew you were
gonna gonna have to be ready to answer him. So
QB's one of the greats in the business, both as
a coach and a broadcaster. Always appreciated talking to him.
I still appreciate listening to him. I've always had great
(45:27):
respect for the older guys, the guys that came before
me in coaching, and I've learned a lot from QB.
Speaker 5 (45:36):
Brown over the years.
Speaker 6 (45:39):
Used to go to his training camps when he was
with the next attended coaching.
Speaker 5 (45:44):
Clinics that he did.
Speaker 6 (45:46):
Great privilege to have been able to hear QUB Brown
through the years.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
I'm going to end it with this, SBG.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
You know, obviously, as a sideline reporter, a part of
my job is interviewing the coaches during the game, and
a lot of times, depending on the game, and depending
on the time and circumstance, that can be a tough task.
At the end of the first quarter is pretty easy
dealing with a coach. Not much, not much can go
(46:16):
wrong in the first quarter. A lot of times it does,
but not much. But the end of the third, going
to that fourth, that's when the coaches really are trying
to get get into their game plan. And so again
it depends on I dictate, like at the end of
the third quarter out you know, depending on if the
coach went on a if the coach is on the
wrong end of a ten to oh run to close
(46:38):
that quarter off, I know that coach is not in
the move to talk. So I mainly asked one question,
but stay, I remember you told the story.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
I want to end it with that.
Speaker 4 (46:47):
I remember you told a story about your experiences and
dealing with sideline reporters and how you had.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
To adapt over time. Can you talk about that?
Speaker 6 (46:56):
Yeah, I think it was probably the year we were
going to the final in two thousand and nine and
my brother was broadcasting for ABC, and you know, my
brother just said to me, like, hey, you know what,
you got to.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
Be better with least a salter.
Speaker 6 (47:15):
She was a sideline reporter said, you know, I know
nobody likes to do those.
Speaker 5 (47:21):
He said, she knows nobody likes to do.
Speaker 6 (47:23):
Those, but it's her job. You owe her more respect
and understand that. And it changed me for the rest
of the time. I'm not saying I was always the
best guy, like Michael Malone's probably the beast, right.
Speaker 5 (47:39):
I mean, he's fantastic.
Speaker 6 (47:41):
But the one thing with my brother is, you know
you talked about me telling the truth my brother.
Speaker 5 (47:50):
You know, we all need people in our lives. I
firmly believe this.
Speaker 6 (47:55):
You need people in your life who will tell you
the truth, not just what you want to hear. And
my brother's always been that guy for me. He just
told me the truth, which was basically, you're being an asshole,
Like you know, you don't need to be that short
with the answers are rude. Answer her questions. That's her job.
And I've tried to do that since because he, you know,
(48:21):
just changed my perspective. And I think most guys in
the media would say that. Through my years, I know
I had my moments, but for the most time part
I was good with the media because I had the
appreciation that you know, everybody in the media has got
their jobs to do too, and so you've got to
(48:41):
give them the respect that they're due.
Speaker 5 (48:43):
And that was that moment.
Speaker 6 (48:45):
Changed me with those with those sideline reports, and you
guys have tough jobs when you're doing that, and you're
right the into the first quarter, no big deal, into
the third quarter, you know. I remember one I had
one interview Chris where we're down like eighteen and you
know the cutoffs twenty down twenty.
Speaker 5 (49:06):
We don't do the interview, and I Forkid who was doing.
Speaker 6 (49:09):
The sideline, and I said, well, hell, the only thing
that could have happened if we could have given up
one more bucket, at least.
Speaker 5 (49:15):
I wouldn't have to do that.
Speaker 6 (49:18):
So I mean, my god, if we're gonna get blown
out anyway, go ahead.
Speaker 5 (49:23):
Makes as bad as can But.
Speaker 6 (49:26):
I got better with those, and I got my brother,
as I do for a lot of things.
Speaker 5 (49:30):
I've got my brother sent for that.
Speaker 7 (49:32):
We need that podcast someday, man, we need the world.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
According to the Van Gundy's.
Speaker 3 (49:37):
Podcast Classic, it will be a classic.
Speaker 6 (49:41):
I don't think it would be as good as you
guys think. I think we became fridge sights all the time.
Speaker 5 (49:45):
Like, can you believe all the dumb crap these dude.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
Just said I would be a classic?
Speaker 4 (49:52):
And Stan has comed Stan is not the same Stan
he was on social media.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
Years ago.
Speaker 6 (50:01):
No, No, my wife got me off social media and
my mood has been better for the last two years.
Speaker 5 (50:08):
Social media when.
Speaker 6 (50:09):
You get into the political stuff, yeah, social media takes
on a whole new thing. And I was just fighting
and angry all the time. So now I still get angry.
Speaker 5 (50:21):
About political stuff, but it doesn't.
Speaker 6 (50:22):
Rub up because I'm not on there having people piss
me off even more.
Speaker 4 (50:27):
No, I hear you stay social media, man, I don't
want to get on that. That's another topic for another day.
Thank you, brother. I see you got the sun out there.
I see the palm trees breezing. Man, like God leda,
I look so beautiful, man.
Speaker 5 (50:43):
This is what this is what I call work right here,
this is beautiful. We'll stand.
Speaker 4 (50:49):
I appreciate you for coming on, man, we've been waiting
for that. Thank you for your time. I hopefully will
see you Game five in New York.
Speaker 7 (50:58):
Absolutely, thanks so much for doing it, and that'll do
it for us.
Speaker 5 (51:05):
See you next time.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
This league Uncut is an iHeartRadio Production Loca Chris Haynes
and Mark Stein
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