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May 9, 2024 47 mins

On a Thursday edition of The Best Of The Doug Gottlieb Show: Doug explains why what Shaq did to Nikola Jokic in his interview right after Jokic one his third MVP was disrespectful.

Doug talks about the Pacers loss to the Knicks Wednesday night and why the Pacers have a gripe about the officiating. 

Doug gives his thoughts on whether or not 30 NBA players could play in the NFL right now. Doug welcomes NFL Analyst John Middlekauff onto get his thoughts on NBA players being NFL players. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlieb
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(00:26):
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dougttlib Show. Here on Fox Sports Tradio, we have an
all time show for you. John mittalcaff will join us.

(00:48):
We talk some NFL upcoming, probably talk a little hoop
as well. Uh, you guys are gonna have to help
me here, okay, because what happens when you're off? For
to why I never take time off. Somewhere in my
boss's office, there's just a backlog of there's a backlog

(01:11):
of days off that I have to take. But the
reason is I just I don't know. There's just always
something to talk about, and I love it. I love
hosting the show, and so in the litany of things
I want to talk about, the Pacers getting absolutely screwed
by the officials is part of it. I don't think
Rick Carlisle is correct, but maybe I'm wrong. I don't

(01:34):
think there's this league wide conspiracy to keep the small
market teams out of it. Otherwise wire the Timberwolves and
the Nuggets and Oklahoma City flourishing right now and just don't.
There's also the Jokic winning his third MVP and all

(01:54):
the discussion, including Shaquille O'Neal's very strange interview with him.
There's Collins deal with there's Collins deal with the hat
on backwards. We'll get to that. There's the and I
I think I was off the last two days, and

(02:15):
that was when we had the Austin Rivers thirty guys
could play in the NFL. There's the WNBA getting charter
flights like it feels like they think there's a big
check coming right and they've already cashed it and already
spent the money a lot to get to So it's

(02:39):
one of those deals where you're like, man, where do
I begin? Where do I begin? Let's start with the MVP.
So yesterday was announced that Nikola Jokich just won his
third NBA MVP, And I'm going to be totally candid

(03:00):
with you. I think most everyone who has commented on
it is completely full of crap. But they're full of
crap from the way in which we're all kind of
full of it. You know, did you read every word
of the books you were supposed to read in high school?

(03:21):
Or did you get cliff notes? Or did you read
most of it and then you kind of skimmed it
and you were discussing it in class. I'd say most
of us you read it sort of like I read
Lord of the Flies. I like Lord of the Flies.
I still don't know if it's a conch or a kunk,
does anybody, But I just I truly believe what's happened

(03:49):
here is all these conflicting things happening at once. The
first thing is I think one reason, a big reason
Jokic won the MVP was an over correction from last year.
Last year he was on pace to win the m

(04:10):
v P. Kendrick Perkins made it about race, make no
mistake about it. He made it about race and it uh.
You compound that with the fact that he didn't finish
finish the season nearly as strongly, and Embiid only played
against him once and played great, didn't play when they
played in Denver. And he didn't win the MVP this

(04:34):
year because he because of what happened last year in
an effort to kind of right the wrong, and because
he was far and away the best player in the
playoffs last year and they won the championship. It was
it was almost confirmation bias with any of the voters.
We're like a year late and a dollar short on
a lot of this stuff. When guys lose their game,

(04:56):
we usually don't get it till years later. When a
guy is an effective player, U don't get it two
year later as well. And in this case, Jokic won
the MVP because of last year and because who's really
that strong a candidate, shay Gilgess Alexander I guess they
were the one seed, but because he hasn't done anything

(05:18):
in the playoffs, and because be honest with yourself, no
one watches Oklahoma City play. No one watches Oklahoma City
play I've been to two Thunder games, including Game one
I was at the other night, I've watched him. He's amazing. Okay,
he hit two big threes that really opened up the game,

(05:40):
opened up the floodgates. He gets the like Jalen Brunson.
He gets the benefit of the doubt calls by creating contact,
so he's getting superstar calls or superstar treatment. The league
has taken notice, and most people think he was a
viable candidate. They got the one seed. He had great numbers,
he shot a great percentage. It's not crazy to vote

(06:01):
for him. It's not crazy to vote for Yokich, It's
not crazy to vote for a lot of these guys.
For Jason Tatum, they had the best record in the
league and he was their leading scorer. He's their go
to guy. Like it's there's no real A lot of
the MVP discussion, honestly, is because of the twenty four
to seven news cycle, and specifically because ESPN has, just

(06:24):
like the NBA, they're trying to find a way to
get you to watch regular season games, which you don't
want to watch because they're not played at a high
level of intensity. So if you trigger the MVP conversation
in November. It becomes kind of a running thing, and
we pay attention to it way more now than we
did previously. It's kind of brilliant, to be honest with you,

(06:45):
But there's something weird, kind of at play here. Shaquille
O'Neil is defender of all things big men, isn't he.
He had this interview with Jokich last night.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
You know, I love you, the best player in the league.
I want to congratulate you, but I want you to
hear from me first. I thought the SGA should have
been the MVP. Has no disrespect to you, but congratulations
and what do you guys have to do to get
back on track versus Minnesota?

Speaker 3 (07:10):
Thank you, sha We don't judge people here, you know,
so that's fine opinion. I'm joking.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Hey, all good. I love you, I love your brothers.
One thing we always going to do is keep it
real with each other. Congratulations.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
I actually, on one level, I respect that what Shack's doing.
On another level, it has no place in that discussion.
Like he wanted to make sure that YO could. But
here's the the Shaquille, and he'll have a vote. If
you don't have a vote then who cares? Who cares
what you think by the way you have inside the NBA.

(07:51):
I'm sure YO could seize it and you could sit
there and go like but it's really really weird, really
weird that the defender of the big man for the
life of the show, Shaquille Neil, has been completely blind
to how the game has changed. I throw it into
the big field that Shaquille O'Neal would jump off of

(08:14):
the Jokisch bandwag and then contradicted saying you're the best
player in the league. What what is the It didn't
make it, it makes any sense. What is the the deal?
What's the actual deal? Do I think it's the anti

(08:39):
foreign bias? Sure? Do I think it has anything to
do with this skin color? I don't think so, I
really don't. I don't think. Do I think that NBA
players have biases about white dudes? Of course, of course,

(09:01):
And it's been built up over time and time and again,
time and again. All Right, the vast majority of NBA
players are black. They just are even mixed race more
so than might and the European players were always seen
as floppers. Now the one thing about Shay is he's

(09:21):
not actually American. He's Canadian? Do people know that? And
he is a bit of a throwback in that he's
not a particularly high level, high volume, proficient three point shooter.
So it's a weird one. It's a very strange one.
But I honestly think it's the anti foreign player bias.

(09:46):
That's my presumption. And yes, most foreign players are do
have they're white guys, but not all of them, be honest,
is not Embiid is not I know Embiid is naturalized,
but he's not. You know, it is weird. No one
said this about about Giannis. No one said it about

(10:07):
a chem Right, those are big guys who are the
best player in the league and won the MVP. There's
never been anything of it. So is this is are
we just again? Am I denying what society is doing?

(10:27):
Because there is a correlation there between the protests, right,
we do know that the protests are most of these
people are complete buffoons and idiots, right, not even realizing
that there are Americans being held hostage in Gaza, three

(10:47):
of them. Right, How we don't have nightly vigils for
those three human beings is the saddest thing in the
history of the United states. Instead we have actual vigils
for people who so terrorists activity. That's the world we're
living in. And what is it. It's the fact that
we have for the last ten fifteen years, we have

(11:12):
been anti anyone who's in power. I think about it.
Any president, complete idiot, doesn't matter. The president doesn't matter
the side, right that a matter of the side. Every
president's an idiot. Every commissioner is the worst. Every commissioner
gets booed right at every one of them. Any leader

(11:36):
is the worst human being ever, and generally anybody with
white skin is bad because of I don't know what
did Yokich do wrong? Has that ever happened in the
history of broadcast TV? Ever, the guy wins the MVP,

(12:02):
and Shaquille O'Neill, who was an MVP, says, I just
want you to know that I thought shaike kisas or
should have been the MVP. It's unbelievably disrespectful to the award,
to the accomplishment. And oh yeah, by the way, in

(12:22):
your effort to tell the world that you didn't think
he was the MVP. Does Shack have a vote? Again,
I don't know if he has a vote. If he
has a vote. Then all he had to say was, look,
I just want you to know I voted for Shay okay,
but she didn't have to. So I guess I'm asking
you what is at play? What could possibly be a

(12:44):
play it? It did not happen when Joel Embiid won it,
it did not happen when Yannis won it, and those
are foreign born players. When you know now Dirk won it.
I don't remember any sort of discussion about any sort
of negativity towards it. And Dirk couldn't guard the chair

(13:04):
that I'm sitting in either. It's the craziest thing I
can possibly think of, possibly think of. I just again,
I'm trying to make heads or tails of it, and
I don't know what the actual answer is. And I

(13:27):
do not want to make it about race. I always
think that's the last possible thing. You guys know me, like,
I truly believe that race is the last possible like no, no, no.
And I do think there's an anti big guy bias,
right because so many of us look more like Steph,

(13:50):
look more like Brunson than we do like Embiid, than
we do like Giannis. Then we do and and honestly,
the Anthony Edwards types because they're so breathtaking with their
sheer athleticism that we have infatuation with that more so

(14:12):
than we do the footwork of a big guy or
the passing ability of a Yo kich. But I struggle
with this one. And I know Shack a little bit.
Shack is everything he purports himself to be. He's a

(14:33):
really fun human being to be around, a really fun
human being to be around. And if you've listened to
any of his stuff on his life, like he's really
kind of found a good balance in life. He felt
like he was in the wrong place for a long
long time and now he's found that sort of balance.

(14:54):
But man, I gotta tell you that is such a
bad look. The NBA has got some terrible looks. Today
you had the MVP of the NBA and a former
MVP who's a fellow big man, defender of the big man,
like say, I didn't think you were the MVP in

(15:15):
an interview the night he wins the MVP award. What
And then today you wake up and Patrick Beverly got
four games for throwing a ball not once, but twice
into the stands. Let me ask you a question, if
a fan. If a ball came into the stands, or
a fan bought a basketball at a concession, like went

(15:37):
into the team store, bought a basketball and threw the
ball at Patrick Beverly when Pat wasn't looking, and he
jumped up and caught it. What would happened to that fan?
He would never be allowed in an NBA arena ever, Again,

(15:58):
my being too bold. If a fan threw a ball
at a player, the fan would be immediately ejected and
never allowed back in. I don't think I'm being over
the top of that, Jase Dud. Do you think that's wrong?
Is that too harsh?

Speaker 4 (16:16):
No?

Speaker 1 (16:17):
I think it's the rule. You can't throw a ball
at a player correct. Even more so, you can't throw
a ball a fan. And Adam Silver allows that to happen.
They set a precedent today. They set a precedent today.

(16:38):
Remember the guy who threw the cup that started the
malice at the palace, right, he threw an empty cup?
It tags run, our test, run, our test goes crazy
and just starts leveling fans with haymakers, leveling fans with

(17:00):
the hay makers. That guy, okay, that guy is never
allowed back at an NBA Arena. Everr he threw a
cup an NBA player Pat Beverley, who and this is

(17:22):
not his first offense in terms of being an a
hole throws the ball twice. Reminds me. Do you guys
remember the movie sole Man from the eighties? Talk about
a movie that'll never be made again. It's a Yale
law school right when they he pretended to be black.
He puts some stuff on his skin so he looked
like he was black. And there was this line from the.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
Movie, mister Watson, can you name the president for us? Yes, sir,
the President, sir is is Ronald Reagan. Sir Watson, I
am not a humorless man. But if you got to

(18:05):
take up my class time making jokes, please see to
it that they are funny ms. Walker, Uh, Rhode Island
versus Caltano.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, the President. By the way, that's a great James
Earl Jones. No greater pipes than great James Earl Jones.
The precedent, they said, a precedent. It's not okay to
throw a ball in a fan, but I'll get you
four games. Can you imagine, I don't know, rough day
for the NBA. Rough day.

Speaker 5 (18:41):
This is the best of the Dog dot Leave Show
on Fox Sports Radio.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
What Up with your Doug Godlieb shout Fox Sports Radio, ol,
How you doing? How you living? Doug Otlik show comes
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What a tire buying should be welcome in. Hope You're

(19:09):
doing great. Mmmmm mmmm. So the NBA playoffs continue, and
this is a show for real dudes, real dudes. And

(19:30):
when I say real dudes, it's like, and again, I
am not calling out any show in particular. Okay, there's
no like, oh you're calling out said show. No, not,
But I do know that there are shows, there are places.
There are people in this industry that don't go to
sporting events. They watch them on TV. Okay, And I

(19:54):
am super, super proud to be surrounded by three in
this case men. And when Monsei joins us, well, she
goes to games all the time as well, but Buyer
he goes to I mean he's gone to countless not
just golf events as well. Obviously it's a little different
now when you have a little one in terms of
getting away. But he'd loves sports, goes to sports. You
the same, Jay stew Right, mostly Dodgers, But you go

(20:18):
to a Rams game, you go to Chargers games. Sam,
I'm sure you go to sporting events as well. Just
the other night, I went to my It's actually my
second Thunder game of the year, even though I live
in southern California. I went back, took my son back
and we watched Game one and my thanks to Jessica
with the Thunder. And also it's like I don't always

(20:40):
get comp tickets, bought those tickets. It's like it's not
like a humble brag. That's actually the opposite of a
brag because most people in our position, we don't like
to buy tickets. I'm a ticket snob though I want
good seats. And when going to the game, I thought
the officiating in the first half was really one sided.
And frankly, I love Luca. I am enamored with the

(21:05):
skill of Kyrie, and I have some friends in the
Maverige organization, but I'm more of a much more of
a Thunder fan Oklahoma Ties. I love the way they
do it. I know people in that organization. I know
people very I know people very high up, and they're
like everyone says, the way they do things is the
way they should be done. And I think they're going

(21:27):
to get to a place where it's gonna be really interesting.
Do you take a bite at the apple? Do you
go after a Kevin Durant, or do you try and
do this ensemble cast thing around Shay and chet Holmgren
and see how far it can go. It's a great
It's not really the point of emphasis for this story,
but the point is that even in Oklahoma City, surrounded

(21:48):
by people that I know, in a sporting event, which
it was, it was an amazing night. Like people ask
all the time, what was it like when you played
at Oklahma State? And I told my son, you see
this crowd, That's what it was like. It's the best.
There is nothing like it now. I get it. Like
the Knicks are doing a great job, their fans are

(22:08):
They're vicious, they're nasty. It's a different energy in the
East Coast Pacers as well. I'm sure the Timberwolves tonight
or is that tomorrow tomorrow? Same thing Celtics at the
East Coast nastiness you know as well. But the thunder,
I mean, you cannot get a better atmosphere than what

(22:28):
they have. Can't you can get an equal atmosphere, can't
get better. That said, the officiating was an embarrassment in
the first half because it was one sided. You can't
play defense on a guy when you're Daniel Gafford with
your hands up and Shay drives into you, creates the
contact and the defense gets called for the foul. It's impossible.

(22:53):
And the fight is not for the officiating to be
tighter or to be looser. Officiating is for it to
be the same. What's at one end has to be
the same at the other end. That's the problem. And
it absolutely positively was not the case last night for
the Knicks against the Pacers. And you're gonna sit there going, oh,

(23:13):
you're just a hater, because that's what we do when
we don't have a reasonable response to a very very
obvious disparity in officiating. Is you're a hater your West Coast.
You don't like the Knicks, you know, like bull crap.
Jalen Brunson might be my favorite player I've ever watched

(23:33):
play in the NBA. Can I repeat that Jalen Brunson
might be my favorite player I've ever watched in the NBA,
but he just part of all of the Villanova guys.
You guys are ridiculous with the flopping. It's like, hey, Villanova,
we're gonna have great culture. We're gonna play hard, We're

(23:55):
gonna practice hard, we're gonna play off two feet in
the lane. We're gonna be creative, we gonna be great teammates,
and we're going to do fainting goat defense. You guys
like that, you can use that, by the way, fainting
goat defense. You ever see a fainting goat? Funniest thing ever.
They just like sit there and they pass out when
they get scared. It's awesome. I kind of want to
get a goat that's a fainting goat and just scared

(24:17):
on a daily basis, just to start my day. This
is Rick Carlisle after the game.

Speaker 6 (24:27):
I'm always talking to our guys about not making it
about the officials, but you know, we just we deserve
a fair shot, you know, and it's just it's just
not there's not a consistent balance and that's disappointing. You know,
small market teams.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
Deserve an equal shot.

Speaker 6 (24:45):
They deserve a fair shot no matter where, no matter
where they're playing.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
I honestly don't think it's about the small market team
in New York, you know. I think my guess is
it's about the energy of the home building and officials
get caught up in it. But the Pacers sent seventy
eight missed calls over two games to the league. Seventy eight,

(25:15):
I mean some of it. There was Josh Hart with
a two hand shove where it looked like he was
trying to foul in transition trying to and didn't get
called for it. And look, a lot of this comes
down to not just the NBA has always had coaches
who go to the dais after the game and complain
about the official and then the next game it's better.

(25:36):
But by the way, Carlisle didn't really like he didn't
really complain after Game one when they lost the game
on a joke of a call, a joke of a call,
And it was, by the way, the same type of
call we saw in women's college basketball with the Yukon

(25:58):
game against Iowa. Right, But you combine the fact that
there was an obvious flop by Dante DiVincenzo again. Villanova guy,
great teammates, play hard, playoff two feet, make shots, win championships,
and fainting goat defense. Oh, because that's actually the worst

(26:20):
part about it is everything about the culture of Villanova
is about toughness, and yet that's not necessarily toughness. That's flopping,
that's not really respected. And I get it, you gotta
sell calls sometimes, but the level to which they do
it is stupid, and some of it, it's like quite obvious.

(26:43):
Game three will be stupid, It'll be a march to
the free throw line. It's gonna be crazy, tightly officiated.
But I don't think it has to do I don't
think it has to do with location, because look, Minnesota
was able to climb into Denver and play really physically
and expose the fact that Jamal Murray is not a

(27:04):
point guard and they don't have another ball handler that
can handle the basketball against pressure. So you just pressure him,
harass him every time he gets it, and it's cut
off the head of the snake defense. That's basketball one
on one, great game plan by Chris Finch and his crew.
But all this comes back to the Tim donneghey deal.
Don't it. I mean, look, the likelihood is there is

(27:29):
no conspiracy to keep small market teams out of the
NBA playoffs or out of the NBA Finals. Is it
better for the Knicks and the Celtics in terms of ratings?
Hell yeah, yes, yes, ten times over, because the West
is going to be a disaster ratings wise. Oklahoma City

(27:50):
versus Minnesota is great basketball. You have two burgeoning superstars
in Shay and in the ant Man, burgeoning superstars. But
they play in Oklahoma City in Minneapolis, yikes, yikes, So
how do you combat that? Boston? New York will be unbelievable.

(28:14):
But the only reason you think, I mean, the main
reason you think it's plausible is Tim Donaghe and what
he did and what he said opens the door to
the because look, if there was some grand conspiracy to
keep small market teams out of the Eastern Conference finals,
you damn well know about it. There are no more secrets,
only facts yet to be revealed. And the NBA does

(28:36):
a lot of dumb things, like only suspending Pat Beverley
four games for chucking a ball into the stands, not once,
but twice. That's a dumb thing, But dumb things and
stupid things. It'd be stupid to have some conspiracy. The
Knicks have benefited from being the aggressor. They've benefited from

(28:58):
the home crowd. They got the Pacers out of their game.
And oh yeah, by the way, Rick Carlisle, the guy
who you have who's the best at playing through that
physicality and and grinding out is your backup point guard
TJ McConnell, who you took out of the game, and
that's when you lost the game. So Carlisle, he has

(29:19):
the point about, hey, we just want fair we just
want fair officiating. I agree, But why don't you leave
the guy in who's helping you win. You're a neutral
NBA fan, your team is not in it anymore. What
are your thoughts on Let's just take with that seriously officiating.

Speaker 7 (29:43):
I think the officials get caught up in any home
arena with the crowd, and maybe maybe Madison Square Garden
would be the biggest place to do so, so you
ride that momentum, you make borderline calls to get that
sort of reaction. That is what I think happens. I

(30:05):
think you could You'll see the same thing in in Indianapolis.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yeah, I tend to agree tend to agree. And the
point about the seventy eight miss calls is, I'm telling
you what's coming as a march to the free throw line.

Speaker 7 (30:19):
Yeah, he's laying groundwork for games three and four.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
You know, it's interesting in the in the Okama City
Dallas one, everybody made a big deal, myself included over
the twenty two free throws in the first half. And
what that did was Lively and Gafford both in foul
trouble and once if Oklahoma City can get to the rim,
especially Shay can get to the rim, different ballgame. But
what's not discussed is Dallas cut it to one in
the second half and lou Dort made a couple of

(30:45):
great plays and then Shay hits two threes and that
was that. But that officiating was was embarrassing. It was bad,
and I agree with you. You get caught up in it.
And oh yeah, by the way, why you want the
big name officials. That's why you want Scott Foster in
a game. We've created this thing. You need a guy

(31:08):
who's it's a key word that ends with a K.
I don't think it's appropriate to say on radio, right,
you need an official like that because that official ain't
scared to call the hard thing, scared to call the
foul in the home team. But if you just call
the obvious ones, I think you're in a better place
than the officials. But Jalen Brunson creates contact. That's what

(31:34):
he does. That's how he plays. If you ever ask yourself, like,
how does he get off all these shots? Because Jalen
Brunson is probably the I don't know, twentieth quickest fastest
guard in the NBA. And he's not particularly big. He's
maybe a little bit bigger than me. But he understands
angles and he understands how to create space with physicality.

(31:58):
He creates contact. It's amazing. And the second you touch him,
he jerks his head back and sometimes even when he's
not hit, it's hard to effiiciate, but they have not
done a good job at all at Oh, It's Dog
Gottlieb Show here on Foxsports Radio. Coming up next on

(32:21):
the Doug Gotlib Show Live from the Tirek dot Com Studios.
I gotta catch my breath. I'm like so fired up
with all the stuff, you know, with all the games,
all the games.

Speaker 5 (32:34):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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Speaker 1 (32:44):
Nothing is soft and sensitive as fake tough guys, right,
that's NFL guys. NFL guys are so soft and sensitive. Okay,
So by now I again, and I understand I'm violating
one of the principles of what we try and do
on the Doug Gottlieb Show, which is talk about the freshest,

(33:07):
hottest stuff. Right, I get it. The Austin Rivers thing
was a couple of days ago, but everybody's still talking
about it. Right. Keep in mind, this is James Jones
yesterday on Fox Sports one on Speak.

Speaker 8 (33:20):
Let's just get this straight.

Speaker 3 (33:22):
Number one.

Speaker 8 (33:23):
They put in a flop role in the NBA because
you guys are soft. Oh see, now you I started
a trend of rest games.

Speaker 3 (33:32):
That's what y'all started.

Speaker 8 (33:33):
And now y'all want in extra votes and all that
type of stuff to win the MVP because you only
play twenty two games out of eighty two. Y'all started that.
So y'all all start number two. You said thirty dudes.
If you want to said one dude, maybe Anthony Edwards
could play safety or something ought to listen to you
or something like that. You said, thirty dudes, no, Number one,
put respect on our sports. That's number one. It is

(33:56):
not just run to catch the ball and turn around.
It ain't just hand the ball off and do that.
It takes a lot of work at your craft to
do what we do on the football field and Austin Rivers.
If you stepped on the football field, homeboy, you wouldn't
make it. We know that right now because you barely
made it in the NBA. And I'm just keeping it
a buck. I'm football is not an easy game. That's
why a lot of football players are basketball players that

(34:17):
stepped on the football field step right back on the
basketball court. Because it's not an easy game. It's a
lot that goes in to the NFL. And you're not
about to walk into the NFL and think you're just
about to catch and turn around. Try again, homeboy, do
your research on the NFL. Man, watch some football games,
old games, new games, whatever you want to watch and
catch up on a man, because thirty dudes in the NFL,

(34:38):
in the NBA and.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
Home boy, okay, I played basketball against Jame Jones. He's
actually pretty good. But the problem is that James Jones,
in order to play like he'd want to play like
at a high level in the NBA, he's too small.
He actually made Austin Rivers point for him by saying, Oh,
you want to tell me Anthony Edwards one guy? Okay,
go through the teams, you know, give me a team.

(35:02):
I'll tell you there's a guy. There's thirty teams. He's
talking about one guy on a fifteen guy roster. All
the NFL players want to be NBA players, they do.
The problem is most of them too small to be
NBA players based upon their skill set, very very few, right,
Whereas I could go through an NBA roster, right, I

(35:27):
mean Oklahoma City thunder Keyante Johnson or Jaylen Williams probably could.
The Dallas mavericks o Max prosper like dude six seven,
two thirty freak athlete. Yeah, that dogg It Hunt, you know, heck,
look at the Knicks og. Maybe Josh Hart, Like you mean,
tell me Josh Hart come play football. He's scared of contact.

(35:50):
Oh yeah, by the way, they put in a flop role. Well,
what's the NFL done recently? How tough is the NFL?
No more to a days limited contact in practice and
oh yeah, by the way, like all of the nasty,
jacked up shots from our childhood are gone. Can't hit
quarterbacks below the knee, above the neck? Everything's a flag? Like,

(36:10):
what are you talking about? This is a societal move,
not just a basketball move. Thirty a bit ambitious, but
the idea of one guy per roster. He's much more
right than he is wrong. Let's bring in John Mendlkoff,
who used to be a scout in the nash Football League. John,

(36:32):
I ask you because I have a friend who's a
GM who has asked me every year, Hey, when you
go to a basketball game, find me one per game.
And he's like, look, there is in addition to the
requisite size, speed, skill, overall athletic traits, the other part
you need is to have play football growing up, because

(36:52):
you can't just never play football before. There is technique
to it, and even that it's going to take a
lot of work, but it could happen. What are your
thoughts on the discussion?

Speaker 4 (37:02):
Well, I think there are a lot of different variables here.
If you just look, and I'm with you, the NFL
guys could not transition to the NBA, right, I mean,
Trent Williams one of the biggest players in the NFL.
He's like six ' five. Raymond's like one of the
smallest bigs in the NBA history. He's like six five
and a half right sixty six. So the size element,
I mean, Steph Curry would be the size of the

(37:24):
majority of guys in the NFL, and he's sixty three
and he's one of the smaller guys in the NBA.
But I think when you look at the NFL stuff,
obviously there are a ton of guys. You know, some
of these guys are too tall. We all know that.
But any guy from you know, I would say six
feet to six five sixty six. You know, you watch
Tyreek Maxie or some of Russell Westbrook in this prime. Obviously,

(37:46):
their athleticism is NFL Like NFL teams, if they like quit,
you know, when they were twenty three and wanted to
play football, every NFL team would work them out.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (37:54):
Chris Long had a really good rant. I think if
these guys played in even they didn't play in high school,
they went out, yeah and started playing college and got
used to the mentality of, you know, in basketball, show
up to shoot around and if you're a star, you're
don't have to show up. You play the game. In football,
it's the grind. The training camp is obviously a lot

(38:14):
different than two days, but it's still eight am to
nine pm for thirty five straight days, and then once
the season starts, it's basically a six day week work week,
one day off, and you play the game. So the
culture and the difference, Like you know, pat Riley, who
gave he gives the best press.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
Conference of the year.

Speaker 4 (38:32):
Everyone's like, god, can you believe what he said? Again,
that's like an NFL press conference from every coach on Monday.
So the way that the culture of getting yelled at
and coach hard is dramatically different, at least for the
star players. I mean, young guys still get yelled at
by coaches in basketball, but the physical toughness, you just
wouldn't know if they liked it, if they would grind

(38:52):
until they did it, obviously, Like you can't watch Jalen
Brunston and go that guy doesn't have an NFL body.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
He probably doesn't have NFL speed, Like I would say
more Josh Hart and the right like mac Maxy.

Speaker 4 (39:07):
Maxy would be a guy that jumped out to me
just moving around.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah, you know, I I I struggle with the guards
because you know, like what, it's position dependent, and I
do think, Look, there's a ton of there's a ton
of technique that goes into like wide receiver right like
people like and those guys are absolute freaks, so there's
very few positions that they can play like. That's why
people think tight end. Although the problem is there's a

(39:32):
lot of technique in blocking that you can't just pick
up right and with the exception of like if you're
Travis Kelcey, you can't you know, you gotta be a block.
But I mean, obviously like Antonio Gates, I mean it
was a mid major big guy. I think there's a
ton of him in college basketball where you see a
kid warming up and you're like, hey, Bud, you should
probably go to the other side of the street.

Speaker 4 (39:54):
I think there are more. I think there are more
in college basketball that could easily transition the undersize big
it's like six the I don't want.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
To say the only word I would get away from
is the easily transition. I don't think it's easy, but
I think it could happen.

Speaker 4 (40:06):
When I say easily transition, I would say it's temps.
The other thing that is part of the argument is
just dumb because it doesn't exist. Is you know, when
you were in the weight room and the football guys
were in the weight room, you lift different, so their
body types by the time they're twenty five. I heard
Coward say this, and he's right. Remember the visual of
Michael Jordan, like in his heyday in ninety four standing

(40:29):
next to like Barry Bonds, he was dead, and a
lot of basketball players because they're not lifting. If you
go to an NFL practice, these guys are so much
thicker because of the way they've been lifting squat deadlifts
from really the moment I question, I mean, got on
the call.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
It okay, but but like I got, like Zion Wimson,
his body is a football.

Speaker 4 (40:46):
Body, but he's just a rare body.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Again, I got I got it, I got it. Listen,
I just watched Lou Dowrt in person say an NFL body, Okay.

Speaker 4 (40:55):
Dion would be a good cool Zion would be a
good uh yeah. For example of wouldn't we question, like
you know, I would say toughness battling through mental toughness
obviously athleticisms there and the just natural ability to carry
three hundred like it's no problem. Yeah. The only the
guy a football player, you know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
I don't know. I mean you look a defensive end
where all you do is, you know, you gotta learn technique.
All you gotta do is go get up to the
quarterback with that level.

Speaker 4 (41:20):
Or here's what I know. If Zion quit the NBA tomorrow,
it's like I want to go to the NFL. Thirty
two teams, work them out, correct, correct, and someone will
final right, and there is that.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
I don't believe there's an NBA player that would have
the same opportunity, an NFL player that would have the
same opportunity the NBA. That's kind of awesome.

Speaker 4 (41:38):
Fall Like you did you see the clip of like
t Higgins playing basketball. These guys are just like the
difference of six y three like Tyreek.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
Like Tyreek Hill could be an unbelievable defensive player, unbelievable,
but he's tiny and the requisite skill is too hard
to catch up. They look like they're dribbling with their elbows, right.
It's just there's too much skill with a ball in
your hands. It's a it's a very different kind of athleticism.

Speaker 4 (42:04):
Nate Nate Robinson was a guy that did both right.
And look at his.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
Body type again, he's a freak. He's an absolute freak. And
uh and and probably should have played football, might have
had a longer I.

Speaker 4 (42:17):
Picked and you know this, the football guys get really offended, yes,
because it's part about the toughness, but part about like,
you guys make all this money in half, you guys
sit out games or do anything like. That's not it's
just not allowed.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
I got I got it, but it is. It is
hilarious right that, whether they wanted it or not, the
NFL has been made way softer in their practice. How
much time they can you know, how much time they
can practice.

Speaker 4 (42:40):
Wanted it for sure.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
Yeah, so they're going like, man, we're way tougher, Like
that's funny because you don't have two days anymore. You
can't hit certain days, right, you're off week, you can't
even come in to the office for a certain amount
of time. And then during during games like the other part.
I've always thought, I've always said this about Lebron James.
People like Lebron James wouldn't want to get hit going
over the middle Nobody wants to get hit going over

(43:02):
the middle. Nobody sits there and goes like, man, I can't.
I woke up today thinking I was gonna get ear
hold right, nobody wants that period stop the The one
thing I would I would agree with NFL players is
it's very hard to play a defensive position because people
think that there's a skill to learning how to hit people,

(43:24):
you know, and if you haven't done that for a
long time, everyone thinks, well, then I'll just play defense
so I don't get hit. Like, yeah, there's a lot
lot more skill in that than you think.

Speaker 4 (43:33):
Well, I think there's a there's a level of like
think about some of the extra Travis Bastrana or some
of the skiers, like how do you just pull the
trigger on leaping over that? It's kind of like that
in football. I mean, anyone that played high school football
and knows the first time you put on pads you
just kind of got it. You either got it or
you don't. And that's that's the thing that separates guys

(43:54):
pretty quickly.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
So that's that's a great point. This is this is
I'm gonna give up. Uh uh, what's at a PS?
What's a a personal service. What's an announcement when a PSA, okay,
a public service announcement. I understand that brain docs or
tell you, like, don't have your kid play football until
they're fourteen, right, that's the big thing, that don't play
tackle football to their fourteen. I disagree, and I'm telling

(44:18):
you from personal experience. I want my kid playing at
like ten, which he did, because I want him to
get hit at ten, and if he comes to practice
the next day after getting hit, if he puts on
his helmet, shoulder pads and says, I'm going for again, Okay,
you can play football. If not, you don't want to
do it, that's fine, okay, but you don't want that
to happen when they're fourteen because in the fourteen they

(44:39):
get hit by a grown ass man and that can
actually do some damage to you, whereas when they're ten,
you really can't. That's my person, that's my that's my PSA.
I'm trying to think there's anything football wise on other
than that. I think that's just that's such an awesome discussion, truly,
a truly amazing discussion.

Speaker 4 (44:56):
I think, like the rookie minicamps are going on this week,
oh yeah, yeah, and OTA's and all that stuff. I
think a lot of NBA guys, you know that in
the size range we talked about, would look fantastic. You
just never know the thing was Like in basketball or
even baseball, you could see a guy stimulated, a be

(45:17):
hitting off, a guy throwing ninety five, like, oh there's
something there or basketball, watch a guy work out in football,
And I've gone to these OTAs for fifteen years, even
back to college. Like you get some young guys with
shorts and T shirts. It's just the sport is only
the sport when the pads are on, and you can't
figure anything out until then. And even then sometimes it
takes some time getting used to, so they're just more unknown.

(45:41):
I would say in football, it's just it's kind of
unique that way.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
It really is. Doug Gotlieb show here on Fox Sports Radio. Okay,
so I do have one. Kirk Cousins is mythed. Does
it matter.

Speaker 4 (45:58):
When you take the money possible and you're willing to
go whatever as you move around in your professional career,
I would say any team sport, he just don't have
as much equity, So like I don't feel bad for him,
like he goes there. They're not the money is his power.

(46:18):
He's not getting the keys of the castle. And in
the terms of they're going to do everything, we can
argue till we're blue in the face. It was a
dumb move, so they take the defensive guy. But like,
I think it's a risky move from the personnel standpoint
of just making it weird. But I don't feel bad
for Kirk Cousins at all, So, like I understand the
human being, Like, why didn't we just use that pick

(46:38):
on a defensive guy. We had not a very good
defense last year, especially when it came to turnovers, and
we have no path rush and there's path rushers on
the board. But like, I'm not losing sleep if I'm
in the Atlanta Falcons front office. Then Kirk Cousins is
mad because the other thing is part of the reason
we sign him. My character guy, Like what are you
gonna do come in and act like an a hole
to him? Like he's not gonna do that. It just

(47:00):
it kind of is what it is. At the end
of the day. It's like, hey, bro, we paid you
forty five million to be the starting quarterback. Correct, Yeah,
I mean listen, but it gets back to he's not
he's not gonna be at OKAS because or he'll be there,
but he can't really practice probably yet because of the leg.
So all the sudden panics is out there, like it
was always going to be weird because of this situation.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
John Mittocoff three, and now's the podcast. Make sure you
wear your hat correctly?

Speaker 4 (47:26):
I will well ball guys. We don't follow the same rules.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
What do you mean?

Speaker 4 (47:31):
I mean we just you guys have there. You know what,
if we haven't shaved our head, it looks funny. We
have different rules. We can do whatever we want with it.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Oh, you can wear your hat backwards.

Speaker 4 (47:40):
I can't yet I do sometimes.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
I actually think Colin's missing it. Okay, the hat on
top of the head is the worst look. With the
hair in front showing is the worst look humanly possible.
Nobody takes you serious, so you look like a dip
dip wood. Yeah, you just do, John Mitocoff. Thanks Johnny,
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Doug Gottlieb

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