May 10, 2024 • 35 mins
Chris and Rob explain why the ‘coach killer’ narrative has never followed Kevin Durant even though he will have gone through 6 coaches in 6 seasons, debate whether Adam Silver is the worst commissioner in American pro sports and discuss Shaquille O'Neal's beef with Nikola Jokic winning the NBA MVP award.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
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Speaker 2 (00:23):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Brushaw and Ron Harker.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I mean, man, look, I guess Rob to be an
NBA coach today. Look, on the one hand, you know,
unless you go on some type of run, I can't
even say, unless you win a championship. Because Frank Vogel
won a championship, Chris is Mike Bouenos or won a champions.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
You're out of work. You're out of work.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
But unless you go on like a run, Rob and
win multiple championships.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
You're hired to be fired. Right.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
The front office is not gonna fire itself. It's really
not even up to them. A lot of times, the
ownership is not gonna fire itself.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Obviously.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
The front office, you know, they're gonna point the finger
at the coach. They can't get rid of all the players.
Sometimes like Bradley Bil. I'm sure they'd love to get
rid of Bradley Bill. I'm sure Rob, they would love
to build a more typical roster as far as let's
get a real point guard. Let's trade Bill for a
real point guard and build around Booker and Durant. You
(01:31):
can't nope, So let's fire the coach. But I guess
the saving grace Rob is that they make so much money.
But he just signed a five year contract this past year?
Was it, Rob g correct us? I was it five years?
Thirty five years? Thirty one, Chris, That's what I saw.
So he's got four years at what twenty six million
(01:51):
dollars coming this way. I mean, don't shed too many
tears for him, but it's just it is. I'll take
a b being fired, Chris rob Man exactly for that
much money. If Bonnie Williams gets fired in Detroit, Robb,
oh god, he got what eighty four million over seven years?
That contract was Oh my goodness. So but you know,
(02:15):
it's interesting because we've seen kind of the Tale of
two Stars, I guess the Tale of two legends Lebron James,
who has run through, you know, a number of coaches.
But now it's like whether it's really Lebron or not.
The perception out there is that Lebron is a coach killer, right,
(02:38):
that Lebron is getting all these coaches fired.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
People don't know, but that's the perception.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
And for Kevin Durant, Rob, do you know that in
the six years since Kevin Durant left Golden State, he
has had six head coaches or it will be a
sixth head coach.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
You know, Ny gonna hire a new guy obviously, and.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
So his six head coach in six years, Rob, And
yet no one is saying Kevin Durant is a coach
killer when we know that he and Kyrie Irving didn't
want Kenny Atkinson, who had done a pretty good.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Job in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Right, No one's saying he's a coach killer, though, And
so what is that?
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Why do you think that is? Robin? What does that
say about these two players of this situation?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Chris? What did I say?
Speaker 5 (03:35):
I know a lot of people maybe thought I was
a little too harsh when I said he's NBA dead,
but but he doesn't get Nobody seems to be bothered
by what's the stat that you just gave out, which
is incredible.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Even know about him.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
Yeah right, I mean really like it just as good
as he is. And I'm not talking about his ability,
Chris and all that that is now. I'm just talking
about on the consciousness of the NBA fans. Like he's
just not on that anymore. He was at the beginning
of the year, we talked about it. He was averaging
like almost a thirty one points a game and.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
One great year did even though he came down a little,
he still had a fantastic.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
But he's not in that. He's not a part of
the talk show circuit anymore. Chris, let's just be on.
You do the show every day. You don't talk about
Kevin Durant that often, do you? Not?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Like before?
Speaker 4 (04:27):
You're right? You are right, You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Your term you use is NBA dead And like you said,
it sounds harsh, but I mean, let's just keep it real.
I think part for me rob and look when they
got beat in the first round, was there a big
hub up.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Nope, we got a tail between their legs, was all
over and they.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Were We talked about Lebron and the Lakers for a
week after they got beat. They got swept by a
bunch of young boys, or at least they were a
team that's led by a young guy twenty two years old.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
He talked trash to Kevin Durant.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Respectfully because that's his idol, and it was no big deal.
And and I think, at least for me, Rob and
hopefully this isn't a slight on Durant. I think he's
the top twenty five, maybe top twenty player of all time.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
I don't expect anything really from Durant.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
No twenty five points a night, right, but not really
like a factor in winning and you know, not gonna
dominate series. And he's just not I don't expect anything.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
We've seen it time and time again.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
And I will say this, and I know you agree,
because a lot of people will just say, man, Kevin.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Durant ain't won a thing since he left Golden State. Yeah,
since he left gold No, but.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
He in Brooklyn, he didn't get a change. I mean
that team was so banged up. And even when Harden
was playing against Milwaukee, Harden was a shell of himself
with the hamstring injury.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
And then the next year.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Duran were healthy, but Harden had left like and then
Kyrie with the vaccination so it just it was just disjointed.
I mean, yeah, they didn't get it done at the
end of the day, if they have to wear it.
But I think it's fair to say injuries and back,
you know, off the court stuff derailed them Phoenix. Rob
(06:37):
so far somewhat similarly He's had a little better chance
in Phoenix, but still badly.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Bill's always hurt. Durant himself has been hurt. But you know, so.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
That's just you have to put it in context and
give the whole story. But still Rob, you know, you
just you are right NBA dead.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
That is the way that because it's just people don't
seem to be bothered or moved. I mean, how in
the world, And again do we think that Kevin Durant
would be consulted or have conversation. I would think so
right that they would because of the front office and
people they would know.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
That's a good question, you.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Know, I mean, you at least want to find out
if this dude was in.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
Love with Vogel if you play, you wouldn't have made
the move, especially Chris with four years left on a contract,
right like that, Right, that's the last thing.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
You're not trying to do. That I don't care how
much money you have. People. People aren't just giving away money, right.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I gotta be honest Row, if I were Matt Ishbia
and I look Frank Vogel, just like Darvin Ham honestly, Rob,
just like every coach. Because there were things you could
criticize about Phil Jackson, Greg Popovich.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Remember he got criticized. Tim Duncan wasn't in the game.
That was the.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
First, right, so you can create and Pop hasn't won
anything without Duncan. I mean, we know how bad they've
been since then, and so or or Kawhi really since
Kawhi left. They went championship after Duncan. But still they
were pretty decent with Kawhi.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
But I don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
If I out have fired vocal Rob. And I'm not
saying he was great. I'm just saying, was that the problem?
I mean, look, if your players lose faith in you,
there's only so much you can do, right but Rob,
But if I'm gonna pay somebody twenty six million or whatever,
(08:39):
do nothing over the next he had to do nothing.
And now I'm gonna bring in a coach who you know,
who knows if he'll do well.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
There had to be something there for you to make
that move. Chris, that's just not not with for you.
You just you just gave to God a contract. There's
no way are you really making that unless you know
they went in and talked to the play and they
were like thumbs down.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
You gave him a team with no point guard. Oklahoma
City has Shae Gilgers, Alexander even Josh Giddy is okay
handling the ball. Minnesota has Mike Conley.
Speaker 6 (09:17):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Who else Denver has? Now, Joki's is really their point guard.
But he's he's special, right, He's a true playmaker. Devin Booker,
Durant Bill. They can give out assists, they can handle
the ball, and they can make plays. I'm not saying
they they're bad at it, but they're not point guards.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Jokis really is like a point guard and that's the difference.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
And then you know, in the East, you got Drew Holliday,
you got Daris Garland, you got Jared or Jaylen Brunson.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
And you got Tyreeze Holliburton rock point guards.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
So but let's blame Frank Vogel, you know, because we
gave him a team with no point guard.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup up
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Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR
to listen live.
Speaker 7 (10:10):
Hey, I'm Doug Gottlieb. The podcast is called All Ball.
We usually talk all basketball all the time, but it's
more about the stories about what made these people love
their sport and all the interesting interactions along the way.
We talked to coaches, we talked to players, We tell
you stories.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
You download it, you listen to it. I think you
like it.
Speaker 7 (10:31):
Listen to All Ball with Doug Gottlieb on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Well, we're gonna stay with the NBA.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Of course, the playoffs are hot, and in these playoffs,
Patrick Beverly guard for the Milwaukee Bucks among many other teams.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
What was going to like five teams this year or
something like that.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
But anyway, of course, last week you might remember when
they were eliminated by the Indiana Pacers, Patrick Beverly tossed
a ball into the stands and hit a woman, and
then a fan threw it back to Beverly, not in
an aggressive way, and then he fired the ball back
(11:16):
at the fan and thankfully did not hit a little girl.
I think it was a little girl who was right
near the line of fire. But anyway, for that act,
he has been fined all right, I'm sorry, suspended for
four games, the first four games of next season.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
Rob.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I thought it should have been at least five games.
Ten would not have upset me.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
No, because of the damage he could have done.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
Chris, Like, there's just no way you should allow that
to happen where you're throwing a ball into the stands. No,
if a fan threw a ball at his head Chris
from the stall, a loose ball, that guy would be
thrown out and banned from ever coming back in right
(12:05):
or wrong.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
No, you be banned. You'd be banned for We've seen it. Yeah, yes,
get banned.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Absolutely, he would have been banned.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
And I'm not saying that Beverly should have been banned
or anything like that. But but this is just another reminder,
Chris of Adam Silver. Adam Silver has missed the has
mishandled a number of things. Has come off as way
lenient when it comes to the player. I know he's
employed by the by the owners, but he's a player's
(12:35):
commission he's he's played though he's uh, you know, like
that's what he is, Chris, because they just bend them
shape him anyway they want. He always seems to be
like when it comes to discipline the players. The only
time Chris he appeared to be hardcore or like David
(12:58):
Stern was when he got rid of Donald Sterling asap.
But that was because of the players, because they had
threatened right not to play Chris playoff games that would
have cost the league, TV money and all kinds of issues, right,
And that's when he acted and didn't look back on
flinch am I right, that was because of the player.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
You had mass player support, right, So it wasn't really
that controversial.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
It really wasn't. And to be honest, I mean, Sterling
had rubbed people the wrong way.
Speaker 5 (13:28):
For years and they had the tape Chris, it wasn't
even like a hearsay. Like hearsay they couldn't have done anything.
But when you hear the tape, there's nothing you could do. Right,
a league that's seventy and he's.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Saying, what don't talking about don't bring black people to
the game.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Absolutely absolutely no doubt about speaking against one of the
legends magic Johnson.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
But yeah, go ahead, finish. Yeah, I'm just it just
seems like it was a little light that's all. Like
an example Pat Bev. I know he's emotional, Chris or whatever,
but you just can't tolerate. There's certain things that you
cannot do. And I think that that was he got lucky.
(14:11):
What if he popped a little girl in the face
with the ball, Chris, then the league right, there might
be a lawsuit and all kinds of other stuff. He
threw it, he threw it hard, So I just thought
it was it was kid gloves again by Adam Silver,
who oftentimes wears mittens when he's putting out punishment. Well, look,
(14:38):
and I'm gonna say this for the last time. Currently
he's the worst commissioner in sports.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Wow. Wow, Look, I would disagree with that.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I do think he has been light on the players
he is. I agree with your description of him as
a player's commissioner because you know, he does value having
the friendships and the relationships with the players, and then
a lot of cases tends to go, you know, light
(15:10):
on them. Beyond the Patrick Beverly one, I thought the Jamal.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Murray situation was egregious. I don't know how in the world.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
And I get it, and again, I'm gonna be a
lot you know, it's gonna I'm gonna enjoy watching that
game tomorrow night, Game three between Denver and Minnesota a
lot more with Jamal Murray there.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
And now we actually have a.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Really delicious storyline right that he this is the guy
that many feel like should have been suspended. He's been
their hero, you know, next to Jokic throughout their nice
run these last two years, and now he's frustrated and
flustered by the aggressive defense of the Timberwolves, so much
(15:58):
so that he threw a heating pad on to the
court at a referee and yet wasn't suspended. Like It's
a great storyline, and so I'll be more into the
game as a fan. But I don't know how in
the world he's not suspended. I think David Stern definitely
would have suspended him and Rob That's the thing. David
(16:19):
Stern was such a heavy handed owner. I think David
Stern was a terrific commissioner. At times, he was too
heavy handed.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
I agree with that at on some of the things
that he did. I thought it was, oh.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, sometimes he too went too far, But overall, I
thought he was fantastic overseeing the growth of the league
the way he did in the league that had a
lot of image problems when he took over, And so
Adam Silver is a much different type of owner than
(16:53):
him and commission I'm sorry, commissioner than David stern Rise.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
This is why I say he's the worst is when
you coddle the players, which I believe he's done. They
have taken advantage of him with the load management, like
the embarrassment.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
He put the sixty five games in it.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Yeah, but it still didn't help. I mean like it
did help.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
It was better. Look, I mean it ain't where it
needs to be, but it was better.
Speaker 6 (17:23):
I mean.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
I think go ahead, Yeah, I just think Draymond Green,
Chris Uh. There's just a lot of issues that happened
in the league where I don't think I think they've
taken advantage of of of Silver and the load management,
as I pointed out, even the embarrassment of the All
(17:47):
Star Game where he went and sent in former legends
to say, hey, can you can everybody's gonna be can
you can you d up a little bit? Can you
play a little defense or whatever, and and what happened.
They scored two hundred and eleven points. Like it was
like a slap in the fam. I'm just saying, like
everything he tried, and he even tried to talk it
up that this is going to be a little more
(18:07):
competitive than we.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Have seen in the past, Chris, it was exact opposite.
But I see, I think he all. I think the
worst commissioner in sports is Rob Manfred. I mean, I look,
I guess you can argue for Adam Silver, but I
mean Rob Manfred, Adam Silver didn't.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
Call their coveted trophy a piece of metal.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
You know, I mean that was a mistake.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
It was it was I also think that you know,
you know, Rob, I've been saying this from day one.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
You talk about being soft.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
You should have vacated that championship for the Houston Astro.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Never been done.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
I don't care that type of cheating.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
You have heard you talk about hurting the integrity of
the game, and you basically get, in my view, laps
on the wrist.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
Come on, nah, I mean that that was terrible to me.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
So I think he you know, there's also been talking
about juice balls under his watch.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Now he I'm not going. I'm gonna be fair.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I think he made some good changes, you know, to
the rules this year, last year, with the pitch clock,
you know, the big I mean, I don't know about
the bigger bases.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
I don't know that. I don't think you had to
go bigger bases necessarily. But overall, I.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Think he made some good, you know, good decisions with that.
But I think Adam Silvers made some good decisions too.
I think the end season tournament was fine. I don't
want to make too big of a deal out of it,
but I thought it was fine. I thought the sixty
five game rule, yes, you need to come down harder it. Really,
he needs to come down on his teams because, again
(19:52):
I've said before, a lot of this is the teams.
They're trainers, not just the players that want us wanting
to sit out, but also Rob.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
I think the playing tournament was huge, a huge success.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Like I mean Lebron, we talk about, Okay, Lebron's out
of the tournament now, steps out of you know, out
of the playoffs now, they would have been gone long before,
perhaps without this n season tournament. Miami, which got to
the finals last year, was in the nd season turn
the playing tournament. I'm sorry, and so I think that
(20:26):
was a good move by Silver. Definitely has made some mistakes,
but I would say Manfred has been the worst commissioner.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Is the worst commissioner current day over Silver.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
Yeah, until Silver had to bribe the players almost to
play hard and all that, I just what's the bribe?
I just think that they the n season tournament with money,
like they gotta like, you gotta play hard. Here's some
extra money. To my god, can you play this tournament?
What do you need to play? Pay extra money for
guys making eight dollars ain't much. Yeah, I don't know
(21:03):
that I describe it as a brock. It's just trying
to give you something for the tournament. But I guess
my biggest point is I just think that he's coddled
them and they haven't reciprocated Chris, that they haven't done
right by him or tried to make him look good
even though he's a player's commissioner. If anything has been
(21:24):
the opposite is that they've taken advantage of him, and
every time he gives them an inch, they take a foot.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
That's why I said.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Well, beyond the All Star Game, which probably happens whoever
the commissioner is. I mean, it's just the nature of
you know, the shooting so many three pointers. Now again,
I think Stern would have come down on that, and
who knows if that would have helped. But outside of that,
where do you say they're taking advantage of.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
The load management? Chris, Chris, the load management is started
under Stern? No, no, no, but I'm but it went Hey,
why her doing okay? But it went haywire here where
all these big players and we talked about on the
show how many big nights we wanted to watch games
and those guys weren't playing like he did a dessert
(22:10):
that he allowed that stuff to go on and they
and he should have clamped down on the teams and
say no, you can't keep doing this to our broadcast
partners and to our fans and to our fans, Chris, Like,
people are paying four hundred dollars to go to a
game and guys aren't playing and not hurt, they're just
taking a night off.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
That's not fair.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
No, I think to not I think this that fans
and he actually should come down on.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
That, and and and that's under his watch.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
When I think of his his tenures commissioner.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I don't think of the end season tournament.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
I think of load management going going wild, low load
management going wild, running a monk. That's what I think
of with with Adam seltzer Stray. That's right, Bam boo boo.
Fans have been bamboozled. Hoodwink.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sport talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to
listen live.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
This is where we want to go.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Last night, Nicola Jokic named MVP third time in four years.
My vote was Luka Doncis he finished third, Shay Gilges
Alexander finished second.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
But I got no issue with Jokic winning it.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
He had a terrific year, as did Sga and Luca
two and even some of them.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Yeah, I mean there were guys.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
You know, most years, Rob there's gonna be a good
number of players, right that have MVP type.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Seasons, and so that's what happened this year.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
But Shaq and Charles Barkley last night on T and
T they had Jokic on for an interview, and here's
what Shaq and Barkley kind of got into after Jokic
was done.
Speaker 6 (23:55):
Every year idiots get on TV and talk about who's
the best player. It's never goes to the best player.
It goes to had the best regular season. You know,
Shack said he got robbed every year he doesn't. Well,
most of the time, it goes to the guy. So
you know, Shack say got robbed. I don't know if
he got robed. I got But let's let's talk about it.
It doesn't go to the best player, go to the
(24:16):
guy who had the best regular You know what, don't
name it most viable players.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Don't name most player.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
It goes to the most vibral player in the league.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
That was me. It doesn't players, Gil is all exactly.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
We don't name it that.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Let's let's it's subjective.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
What's going well?
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I think rob You correct me if I'm wrong, because
I didn't see it live. But I think when Charles said,
Shaq thinks he got robbed, I think he was talking
about Shock feels like he himself got robbed.
Speaker 5 (24:51):
No, no, he's like SG no, no, no, that he
had been but he had been robbed during his playing days.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
He should have won more M v P correct. Well, look,
I would say this, and you know I've been a voter.
I've been a voter for starting with ninety six. You know,
that's almost thirty years. When I went to the New
York Times, Rob they don't vote.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
They didn't the policy.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah, so those few years I was off. But otherwise
I've been voting.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
And I got admit it. It is.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
It's a negative mark on us voters that Shot only
has one and Kobe only has one and Steve Nash
has two.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Now that's not done purposely.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
You know, year to year, you might be a better player,
but you didn't your team didn't win as many games.
I mean, it happens obviously, but it just does look
bad shots, right. I mean, can I look at the
year that he definitely should have won it? I don't know,
but he definitely deserved more than one.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
I disagree, really, I do, and I don't think. I
don't think.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
Well, when you him and Kobe ex each other out,
Chris like that, that really I think that more than anything,
for the people who watch closely, some people would shock people,
some people with Kobe, people that would split a vote,
and I think that's what hurt him more than anything.
I don't think people purpose, That's what I'm saying. I don't,
(26:32):
but I'm saying that that that's the reason. Had he
not at Kobe as a teammate, Chris and he came
away with one and they won three championships, and then
we got a different different conversation.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
That's why I'm saying is I believe that's the reason.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
That's a good point.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
That's all that.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
That's all you agree with that that they canceled each other.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
And what happens is that's how Steve Nash wins is
because they cancel each other out right and then you
wind up.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
I saw this.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
Happen in the fair.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
I saw this happen in New York.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Chris.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Let me give you an example.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
The year it was Strawberry and Kirk Gibson won the
MVP in nineteen eighty eight.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Chris, go look at his numbers.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Twenty five home runs, seventy five RBIs right, Strawberry led
the league and home runs everything. But Kevin mcrenald's played
left field and had a great year for the Mets.
They split the vote in New York and Kirk Gibson
won the MVP that year. I've seen it and that's
what I think happened to Shaq, mostly because Kobe should
have had more and Shaq should have more.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
We both thought that they were both great.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
Nah, I agree, and you're right.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I mean, we know they canceled each other, right, I
mean because and part of people's criteria is all including mine,
is often what's your supporting cast. So if you won
fifty five games and you didn't have another All Star teammate,
you get boosted up ahead of a guy that won
(27:55):
fifty six games. But he's got a freaking All NBA
First teamer with him named Kobe Bryant or named Shaquille O'Neill.
So you are right about that. Shaq has an argument.
Rob third year in the league Orlando, he led them
to the best record in the Eastern Conference, fifty seven wins.
(28:16):
His numbers were better basically across the board. Blocks David
Robinson had him beat. But Shaq had more points per game,
more rebounds per game than David Robinson. But the Spurs
won sixty two games and Robinson got that MVP, but
Shaq had. You know, Shaq finished second that year, rob
(28:39):
So that was an argument for Shaq. But yeah, I
think you're right. I know you're right, because nobody's purposely
trying to.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Take away from Shaq.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
And when you look at these guys, Rob, you look
at most of the guys that win MVPs. Carl Malone
won it stock then wasn't really gonna take it. Yeah, right,
as great as he was. Like I said, David Robinson,
this is when they didn't have really that second superstar.
They didn't have Tim Duncan at that point, Shaq and
(29:16):
Kobe we see they cancel each other out. Jordan Pippen
was never really an MVP discussion, right, Magic. When Magic
started winning them was when Kareem was older, you know.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
And I think Kareem's last one, Rob g correct me
if I'm wrong.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
I think Kareem's last one was Magic's rookie season.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
So mostly, yeah, Lebron won it.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Now, Lebron did win it with d Way, Rob, so
that's one where having another great teammates.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
I'm but no, I know you did not say every year.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
But for the most part, it is true that guys
canceled each other out.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
I think that's what herd Check and Kobe both and
it's unfortunate. But the thing that I think that that
and this was in the notes that we had today.
Chris just the joker in his favor that what is
the year robbed g nineteen eighty four, That MVP Chris?
Not since nineteen eighty four has won an MVP without
(30:17):
a All NBA player on the squad, without an All
Star like like how like he is waited?
Speaker 4 (30:24):
Not since nineteen ninety four eighty four has.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Someone won in a MVP award without an All Star
or All NBA teammate.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
Heep G.
Speaker 8 (30:34):
Jokic is the only MVP this hatchet Tim Haybristrow for
the show. Okay, only MVPs is eighty four who has
never had a teammate, never had an All Star in
All NBA or an All Defensive honor.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
That's crazy.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
I'll give you. I'll give you another now.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
DeAndre Jordan has was made an All Star team, but
he doesn't play much. So I guess does Abristraw did
he say starter?
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Yes? Yes, yeah, here's another one, guys, and.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
This will be for those because if Denver doesn't win
it this year, Jokics may get some criticism, right, but
the last eight MVP winners have not won the championship
that year.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
In fact, nine of the last ten have not.
Speaker 5 (31:15):
Won the championship's crazy, and the year one that won
it was Steph and then last year he didn't win
it and it won a championship right right.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Here's the other thing.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Rob Jokic is the only MVP to ever ever This
goes back to nineteen fifty seven or fifty six, whenever.
The first year of the league was the whole entire
history to NBA. Jokic is the only MVP to win
(31:45):
a championship without a fellow All Star starter.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Ever, Chris ever, ever, ever, ever.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
And people pointed to a Elajuwan in ninety what was
that ninety four or yeah, ninety five, No, Elijah, I
had oldest thort, not oldest thort, wasn't some phenomenal player,
but he had made an All Star team at that point.
And so yo, you can say with you Jamal Murray's
All Star caliber, but he ain't.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Made an All Star team. And so that is.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
A feather in yoga just got there are knocks on yogis.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
Rob.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
He has never been He has never beaten a fifty
win team in the playoffs. And you know, we'll see
if they end up getting swept this year, so they
are not. He won to his first two MVPs without
winning fifty games. One of them was the pandemic shortened season.
But so there are some knocks against him, but that
but that's a heck of a feather in your case.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
I was gonna say, Chris, that's a badger.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
That's a badge of honor that nobody else has able
to do that. And that's when you talk about most
valuable and making other people better around you where you
have a chance to win, right that. That's that's so
when people are like always trying to, you know, make
a make a point about him, I mean, I don't
know how you can look at him. And now I'm
(33:03):
not saying the all time greatest player we's ever played, right,
but you gotta give the guy credit.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Yeah, And Shoq talked about don't call it most valuable.
I mean it's not.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
The MVP is a great name, we're all used to it, right,
but it's not the most valuable because that's essentially immeasurable,
right And Rob, I mean, there could be a guy
on a thirty five win team that is of more
value to his team than any other player in the league.
You know, the other teams, Like, like I said, you
(33:35):
might have two All Stars on your team when the
Heat had Lebron, Wade and Bosh, not to mention Ray
Allen and Shane Battier.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
And some other good players.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Like was Lebron absolutely more valuable to that team then?
I don't know, some Loane All Star was to his
team that won forty one games. Maybe not right that
Heats team was gonna be really good anyway, they probably
wouldn't have won a championship.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
They wouldn't have. But still, it's not value.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
I don't know how you measure that other than some
of these analytics stats, and I don't think we just
want to totally go with that. So it is kind
of it's a missmash. But it is generally like a
player who had an outstanding season, his team won a
lot of games, usually fifty or more, they were a
(34:30):
high seed, and you know he's he's a star who
puts up incredible numbers. That's generally generally what it is, right,
And it doesn't go to the best player because Michael
Jordan was the.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
Best player.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Right exactly, and Lebron was the best for a large
chunk of time.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
So and I don't I think now.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Especially right like for those that say just give it
to the best, dude, I don't think you start that now,
because that's not fair. The Chamberlain and Lebron and Kareem
and you know what I mean, they have eight or
ten of them now right right, so you know it
is what it is.
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Odd Couple podcasts.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from seven
pm to ten pm Eastern four to seven Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for The Odd
Couple at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us
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Speaker 2 (00:23):
You're listening to the Best of the Odd Couple with
Chris Brushaw and Ron Harker.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
I mean, man, look, I guess Rob to be an
NBA coach today. Look, on the one hand, you know,
unless you go on some type of run, I can't
even say, unless you win a championship. Because Frank Vogel
won a championship, Chris is Mike Bouenos or won a champions.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
You're out of work. You're out of work.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
But unless you go on like a run, Rob and
win multiple championships.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
You're hired to be fired. Right.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
The front office is not gonna fire itself. It's really
not even up to them. A lot of times, the
ownership is not gonna fire itself.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Obviously.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
The front office, you know, they're gonna point the finger
at the coach. They can't get rid of all the players.
Sometimes like Bradley Bil. I'm sure they'd love to get
rid of Bradley Bill. I'm sure Rob, they would love
to build a more typical roster as far as let's
get a real point guard. Let's trade Bill for a
real point guard and build around Booker and Durant. You
(01:31):
can't nope, So let's fire the coach. But I guess
the saving grace Rob is that they make so much money.
But he just signed a five year contract this past year?
Was it, Rob g correct us? I was it five years?
Thirty five years? Thirty one, Chris, That's what I saw.
So he's got four years at what twenty six million
(01:51):
dollars coming this way. I mean, don't shed too many
tears for him, but it's just it is. I'll take
a b being fired, Chris rob Man exactly for that
much money. If Bonnie Williams gets fired in Detroit, Robb,
oh god, he got what eighty four million over seven years?
That contract was Oh my goodness. So but you know,
(02:15):
it's interesting because we've seen kind of the Tale of
two Stars, I guess the Tale of two legends Lebron James,
who has run through, you know, a number of coaches.
But now it's like whether it's really Lebron or not.
The perception out there is that Lebron is a coach killer, right,
(02:38):
that Lebron is getting all these coaches fired.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
People don't know, but that's the perception.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
And for Kevin Durant, Rob, do you know that in
the six years since Kevin Durant left Golden State, he
has had six head coaches or it will be a
sixth head coach.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
You know, Ny gonna hire a new guy obviously, and.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
So his six head coach in six years, Rob, And
yet no one is saying Kevin Durant is a coach
killer when we know that he and Kyrie Irving didn't
want Kenny Atkinson, who had done a pretty good.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Job in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Right, No one's saying he's a coach killer, though, And
so what is that?
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Why do you think that is? Robin? What does that
say about these two players of this situation?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Chris? What did I say?
Speaker 5 (03:35):
I know a lot of people maybe thought I was
a little too harsh when I said he's NBA dead,
but but he doesn't get Nobody seems to be bothered
by what's the stat that you just gave out, which
is incredible.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Even know about him.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
Yeah right, I mean really like it just as good
as he is. And I'm not talking about his ability,
Chris and all that that is now. I'm just talking
about on the consciousness of the NBA fans. Like he's
just not on that anymore. He was at the beginning
of the year, we talked about it. He was averaging
like almost a thirty one points a game and.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
One great year did even though he came down a little,
he still had a fantastic.
Speaker 5 (04:14):
But he's not in that. He's not a part of
the talk show circuit anymore. Chris, let's just be on.
You do the show every day. You don't talk about
Kevin Durant that often, do you? Not?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Like before?
Speaker 4 (04:27):
You're right? You are right, You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Your term you use is NBA dead And like you said,
it sounds harsh, but I mean, let's just keep it real.
I think part for me rob and look when they
got beat in the first round, was there a big
hub up.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Nope, we got a tail between their legs, was all
over and they.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Were We talked about Lebron and the Lakers for a
week after they got beat. They got swept by a
bunch of young boys, or at least they were a
team that's led by a young guy twenty two years old.
Speaker 4 (05:00):
He talked trash to Kevin Durant.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Respectfully because that's his idol, and it was no big deal.
And and I think, at least for me, Rob and
hopefully this isn't a slight on Durant. I think he's
the top twenty five, maybe top twenty player of all time.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
I don't expect anything really from Durant.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
No twenty five points a night, right, but not really
like a factor in winning and you know, not gonna
dominate series. And he's just not I don't expect anything.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
We've seen it time and time again.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
And I will say this, and I know you agree,
because a lot of people will just say, man, Kevin.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Durant ain't won a thing since he left Golden State. Yeah,
since he left gold No, but.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
He in Brooklyn, he didn't get a change. I mean
that team was so banged up. And even when Harden
was playing against Milwaukee, Harden was a shell of himself
with the hamstring injury.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
And then the next year.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Duran were healthy, but Harden had left like and then
Kyrie with the vaccination so it just it was just disjointed.
I mean, yeah, they didn't get it done at the
end of the day, if they have to wear it.
But I think it's fair to say injuries and back,
you know, off the court stuff derailed them Phoenix. Rob
(06:37):
so far somewhat similarly He's had a little better chance
in Phoenix, but still badly.
Speaker 4 (06:43):
Bill's always hurt. Durant himself has been hurt. But you know, so.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
That's just you have to put it in context and
give the whole story. But still Rob, you know, you
just you are right NBA dead.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
That is the way that because it's just people don't
seem to be bothered or moved. I mean, how in
the world, And again do we think that Kevin Durant
would be consulted or have conversation. I would think so
right that they would because of the front office and
people they would know.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
That's a good question, you.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Know, I mean, you at least want to find out
if this dude was in.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
Love with Vogel if you play, you wouldn't have made
the move, especially Chris with four years left on a contract,
right like that, Right, that's the last thing.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
You're not trying to do. That I don't care how
much money you have. People. People aren't just giving away money, right.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I gotta be honest Row, if I were Matt Ishbia
and I look Frank Vogel, just like Darvin Ham honestly, Rob,
just like every coach. Because there were things you could
criticize about Phil Jackson, Greg Popovich.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
Remember he got criticized. Tim Duncan wasn't in the game.
That was the.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
First, right, so you can create and Pop hasn't won
anything without Duncan. I mean, we know how bad they've
been since then, and so or or Kawhi really since
Kawhi left. They went championship after Duncan. But still they
were pretty decent with Kawhi.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
But I don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
If I out have fired vocal Rob. And I'm not
saying he was great. I'm just saying, was that the problem?
I mean, look, if your players lose faith in you,
there's only so much you can do, right but Rob,
But if I'm gonna pay somebody twenty six million or whatever,
(08:39):
do nothing over the next he had to do nothing.
And now I'm gonna bring in a coach who you know,
who knows if he'll do well.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
There had to be something there for you to make
that move. Chris, that's just not not with for you.
You just you just gave to God a contract. There's
no way are you really making that unless you know
they went in and talked to the play and they
were like thumbs down.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
You gave him a team with no point guard. Oklahoma
City has Shae Gilgers, Alexander even Josh Giddy is okay
handling the ball. Minnesota has Mike Conley.
Speaker 6 (09:17):
You know.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Who else Denver has? Now, Joki's is really their point guard.
But he's he's special, right, He's a true playmaker. Devin Booker,
Durant Bill. They can give out assists, they can handle
the ball, and they can make plays. I'm not saying
they they're bad at it, but they're not point guards.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
Jokis really is like a point guard and that's the difference.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
And then you know, in the East, you got Drew Holliday,
you got Daris Garland, you got Jared or Jaylen Brunson.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
And you got Tyreeze Holliburton rock point guards.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
So but let's blame Frank Vogel, you know, because we
gave him a team with no point guard.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup up
in the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports
Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR
to listen live.
Speaker 7 (10:10):
Hey, I'm Doug Gottlieb. The podcast is called All Ball.
We usually talk all basketball all the time, but it's
more about the stories about what made these people love
their sport and all the interesting interactions along the way.
We talked to coaches, we talked to players, We tell
you stories.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
You download it, you listen to it. I think you
like it.
Speaker 7 (10:31):
Listen to All Ball with Doug Gottlieb on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
Well, we're gonna stay with the NBA.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Of course, the playoffs are hot, and in these playoffs,
Patrick Beverly guard for the Milwaukee Bucks among many other teams.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
What was going to like five teams this year or
something like that.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
But anyway, of course, last week you might remember when
they were eliminated by the Indiana Pacers, Patrick Beverly tossed
a ball into the stands and hit a woman, and
then a fan threw it back to Beverly, not in
an aggressive way, and then he fired the ball back
(11:16):
at the fan and thankfully did not hit a little girl.
I think it was a little girl who was right
near the line of fire. But anyway, for that act,
he has been fined all right, I'm sorry, suspended for
four games, the first four games of next season.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
Rob.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I thought it should have been at least five games.
Ten would not have upset me.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
No, because of the damage he could have done.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
Chris, Like, there's just no way you should allow that
to happen where you're throwing a ball into the stands. No,
if a fan threw a ball at his head Chris
from the stall, a loose ball, that guy would be
thrown out and banned from ever coming back in right
(12:05):
or wrong.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
No, you be banned. You'd be banned for We've seen it. Yeah, yes,
get banned.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Absolutely, he would have been banned.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
And I'm not saying that Beverly should have been banned
or anything like that. But but this is just another reminder,
Chris of Adam Silver. Adam Silver has missed the has
mishandled a number of things. Has come off as way
lenient when it comes to the player. I know he's
employed by the by the owners, but he's a player's
(12:35):
commission he's he's played though he's uh, you know, like
that's what he is, Chris, because they just bend them
shape him anyway they want. He always seems to be
like when it comes to discipline the players. The only
time Chris he appeared to be hardcore or like David
(12:58):
Stern was when he got rid of Donald Sterling asap.
But that was because of the players, because they had
threatened right not to play Chris playoff games that would
have cost the league, TV money and all kinds of issues, right,
And that's when he acted and didn't look back on
flinch am I right, that was because of the player.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
You had mass player support, right, So it wasn't really
that controversial.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
It really wasn't. And to be honest, I mean, Sterling
had rubbed people the wrong way.
Speaker 5 (13:28):
For years and they had the tape Chris, it wasn't
even like a hearsay. Like hearsay they couldn't have done anything.
But when you hear the tape, there's nothing you could do. Right,
a league that's seventy and he's.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Saying, what don't talking about don't bring black people to
the game.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Absolutely absolutely no doubt about speaking against one of the
legends magic Johnson.
Speaker 5 (13:50):
But yeah, go ahead, finish. Yeah, I'm just it just
seems like it was a little light that's all. Like
an example Pat Bev. I know he's emotional, Chris or whatever,
but you just can't tolerate. There's certain things that you
cannot do. And I think that that was he got lucky.
(14:11):
What if he popped a little girl in the face
with the ball, Chris, then the league right, there might
be a lawsuit and all kinds of other stuff. He
threw it, he threw it hard, So I just thought
it was it was kid gloves again by Adam Silver,
who oftentimes wears mittens when he's putting out punishment. Well, look,
(14:38):
and I'm gonna say this for the last time. Currently
he's the worst commissioner in sports.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Wow. Wow, Look, I would disagree with that.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I do think he has been light on the players
he is. I agree with your description of him as
a player's commissioner because you know, he does value having
the friendships and the relationships with the players, and then
a lot of cases tends to go, you know, light
(15:10):
on them. Beyond the Patrick Beverly one, I thought the Jamal.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Murray situation was egregious. I don't know how in the world.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
And I get it, and again, I'm gonna be a
lot you know, it's gonna I'm gonna enjoy watching that
game tomorrow night, Game three between Denver and Minnesota a
lot more with Jamal Murray there.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
And now we actually have a.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Really delicious storyline right that he this is the guy
that many feel like should have been suspended. He's been
their hero, you know, next to Jokic throughout their nice
run these last two years, and now he's frustrated and
flustered by the aggressive defense of the Timberwolves, so much
(15:58):
so that he threw a heating pad on to the
court at a referee and yet wasn't suspended. Like It's
a great storyline, and so I'll be more into the
game as a fan. But I don't know how in
the world he's not suspended. I think David Stern definitely
would have suspended him and Rob That's the thing. David
(16:19):
Stern was such a heavy handed owner. I think David
Stern was a terrific commissioner. At times, he was too
heavy handed.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
I agree with that at on some of the things
that he did. I thought it was, oh.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, sometimes he too went too far, But overall, I
thought he was fantastic overseeing the growth of the league
the way he did in the league that had a
lot of image problems when he took over, And so
Adam Silver is a much different type of owner than
(16:53):
him and commission I'm sorry, commissioner than David stern Rise.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
This is why I say he's the worst is when
you coddle the players, which I believe he's done. They
have taken advantage of him with the load management, like
the embarrassment.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
He put the sixty five games in it.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Yeah, but it still didn't help. I mean like it
did help.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
It was better. Look, I mean it ain't where it
needs to be, but it was better.
Speaker 6 (17:23):
I mean.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
I think go ahead, Yeah, I just think Draymond Green,
Chris Uh. There's just a lot of issues that happened
in the league where I don't think I think they've
taken advantage of of of Silver and the load management,
as I pointed out, even the embarrassment of the All
(17:47):
Star Game where he went and sent in former legends
to say, hey, can you can everybody's gonna be can
you can you d up a little bit? Can you
play a little defense or whatever, and and what happened.
They scored two hundred and eleven points. Like it was
like a slap in the fam. I'm just saying, like
everything he tried, and he even tried to talk it
up that this is going to be a little more
(18:07):
competitive than we.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Have seen in the past, Chris, it was exact opposite.
But I see, I think he all. I think the
worst commissioner in sports is Rob Manfred. I mean, I look,
I guess you can argue for Adam Silver, but I
mean Rob Manfred, Adam Silver didn't.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
Call their coveted trophy a piece of metal.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
You know, I mean that was a mistake.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
It was it was I also think that you know,
you know, Rob, I've been saying this from day one.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
You talk about being soft.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
You should have vacated that championship for the Houston Astro.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Never been done.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
I don't care that type of cheating.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
You have heard you talk about hurting the integrity of
the game, and you basically get, in my view, laps
on the wrist.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
Come on, nah, I mean that that was terrible to me.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
So I think he you know, there's also been talking
about juice balls under his watch.
Speaker 4 (19:12):
Now he I'm not going. I'm gonna be fair.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I think he made some good changes, you know, to
the rules this year, last year, with the pitch clock,
you know, the big I mean, I don't know about
the bigger bases.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
I don't know that. I don't think you had to
go bigger bases necessarily. But overall, I.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Think he made some good, you know, good decisions with that.
But I think Adam Silvers made some good decisions too.
I think the end season tournament was fine. I don't
want to make too big of a deal out of it,
but I thought it was fine. I thought the sixty
five game rule, yes, you need to come down harder it. Really,
he needs to come down on his teams because, again
(19:52):
I've said before, a lot of this is the teams.
They're trainers, not just the players that want us wanting
to sit out, but also Rob.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
I think the playing tournament was huge, a huge success.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Like I mean Lebron, we talk about, Okay, Lebron's out
of the tournament now, steps out of you know, out
of the playoffs now, they would have been gone long before,
perhaps without this n season tournament. Miami, which got to
the finals last year, was in the nd season turn
the playing tournament. I'm sorry, and so I think that
(20:26):
was a good move by Silver. Definitely has made some mistakes,
but I would say Manfred has been the worst commissioner.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
Is the worst commissioner current day over Silver.
Speaker 5 (20:40):
Yeah, until Silver had to bribe the players almost to
play hard and all that, I just what's the bribe?
I just think that they the n season tournament with money,
like they gotta like, you gotta play hard. Here's some
extra money. To my god, can you play this tournament?
What do you need to play? Pay extra money for
guys making eight dollars ain't much. Yeah, I don't know
(21:03):
that I describe it as a brock. It's just trying
to give you something for the tournament. But I guess
my biggest point is I just think that he's coddled
them and they haven't reciprocated Chris, that they haven't done
right by him or tried to make him look good
even though he's a player's commissioner. If anything has been
(21:24):
the opposite is that they've taken advantage of him, and
every time he gives them an inch, they take a foot.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
That's why I said.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Well, beyond the All Star Game, which probably happens whoever
the commissioner is. I mean, it's just the nature of
you know, the shooting so many three pointers. Now again,
I think Stern would have come down on that, and
who knows if that would have helped. But outside of that,
where do you say they're taking advantage of.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
The load management? Chris, Chris, the load management is started
under Stern? No, no, no, but I'm but it went Hey,
why her doing okay? But it went haywire here where
all these big players and we talked about on the
show how many big nights we wanted to watch games
and those guys weren't playing like he did a dessert
(22:10):
that he allowed that stuff to go on and they
and he should have clamped down on the teams and
say no, you can't keep doing this to our broadcast
partners and to our fans and to our fans, Chris, Like,
people are paying four hundred dollars to go to a
game and guys aren't playing and not hurt, they're just
taking a night off.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
That's not fair.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
No, I think to not I think this that fans
and he actually should come down on.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
That, and and and that's under his watch.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
When I think of his his tenures commissioner.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I don't think of the end season tournament.
Speaker 5 (22:42):
I think of load management going going wild, low load
management going wild, running a monk. That's what I think
of with with Adam seltzer Stray. That's right, Bam boo boo.
Fans have been bamboozled. Hoodwink.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sport talk lineup in
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listen live.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
This is where we want to go.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
Last night, Nicola Jokic named MVP third time in four years.
My vote was Luka Doncis he finished third, Shay Gilges
Alexander finished second.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
But I got no issue with Jokic winning it.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
He had a terrific year, as did Sga and Luca
two and even some of them.
Speaker 4 (23:30):
Yeah, I mean there were guys.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
You know, most years, Rob there's gonna be a good
number of players, right that have MVP type.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Seasons, and so that's what happened this year.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
But Shaq and Charles Barkley last night on T and
T they had Jokic on for an interview, and here's
what Shaq and Barkley kind of got into after Jokic
was done.
Speaker 6 (23:55):
Every year idiots get on TV and talk about who's
the best player. It's never goes to the best player.
It goes to had the best regular season. You know,
Shack said he got robbed every year he doesn't. Well,
most of the time, it goes to the guy. So
you know, Shack say got robbed. I don't know if
he got robed. I got But let's let's talk about it.
It doesn't go to the best player, go to the
(24:16):
guy who had the best regular You know what, don't
name it most viable players.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Don't name most player.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
It goes to the most vibral player in the league.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
That was me. It doesn't players, Gil is all exactly.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
We don't name it that.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Let's let's it's subjective.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
What's going well?
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I think rob You correct me if I'm wrong, because
I didn't see it live. But I think when Charles said,
Shaq thinks he got robbed, I think he was talking
about Shock feels like he himself got robbed.
Speaker 5 (24:51):
No, no, he's like SG no, no, no, that he
had been but he had been robbed during his playing days.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
He should have won more M v P correct. Well, look,
I would say this, and you know I've been a voter.
I've been a voter for starting with ninety six. You know,
that's almost thirty years. When I went to the New
York Times, Rob they don't vote.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
They didn't the policy.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah, so those few years I was off. But otherwise
I've been voting.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
And I got admit it. It is.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
It's a negative mark on us voters that Shot only
has one and Kobe only has one and Steve Nash
has two.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
Now that's not done purposely.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
You know, year to year, you might be a better player,
but you didn't your team didn't win as many games.
I mean, it happens obviously, but it just does look
bad shots, right. I mean, can I look at the
year that he definitely should have won it? I don't know,
but he definitely deserved more than one.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
I disagree, really, I do, and I don't think. I
don't think.
Speaker 5 (26:10):
Well, when you him and Kobe ex each other out,
Chris like that, that really I think that more than anything,
for the people who watch closely, some people would shock people,
some people with Kobe, people that would split a vote,
and I think that's what hurt him more than anything.
I don't think people purpose, That's what I'm saying. I don't,
(26:32):
but I'm saying that that that's the reason. Had he
not at Kobe as a teammate, Chris and he came
away with one and they won three championships, and then
we got a different different conversation.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
That's why I'm saying is I believe that's the reason.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
That's a good point.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
That's all that.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
That's all you agree with that that they canceled each other.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
And what happens is that's how Steve Nash wins is
because they cancel each other out right and then you
wind up.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
I saw this.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
Happen in the fair.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
I saw this happen in New York.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Chris.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Let me give you an example.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
The year it was Strawberry and Kirk Gibson won the
MVP in nineteen eighty eight.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Chris, go look at his numbers.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Twenty five home runs, seventy five RBIs right, Strawberry led
the league and home runs everything. But Kevin mcrenald's played
left field and had a great year for the Mets.
They split the vote in New York and Kirk Gibson
won the MVP that year. I've seen it and that's
what I think happened to Shaq, mostly because Kobe should
have had more and Shaq should have more.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
We both thought that they were both great.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
Nah, I agree, and you're right.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
I mean, we know they canceled each other, right, I
mean because and part of people's criteria is all including mine,
is often what's your supporting cast. So if you won
fifty five games and you didn't have another All Star teammate,
you get boosted up ahead of a guy that won
(27:55):
fifty six games. But he's got a freaking All NBA
First teamer with him named Kobe Bryant or named Shaquille O'Neill.
So you are right about that. Shaq has an argument.
Rob third year in the league Orlando, he led them
to the best record in the Eastern Conference, fifty seven wins.
(28:16):
His numbers were better basically across the board. Blocks David
Robinson had him beat. But Shaq had more points per game,
more rebounds per game than David Robinson. But the Spurs
won sixty two games and Robinson got that MVP, but
Shaq had. You know, Shaq finished second that year, rob
(28:39):
So that was an argument for Shaq. But yeah, I
think you're right. I know you're right, because nobody's purposely
trying to.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Take away from Shaq.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
And when you look at these guys, Rob, you look
at most of the guys that win MVPs. Carl Malone
won it stock then wasn't really gonna take it. Yeah, right,
as great as he was. Like I said, David Robinson,
this is when they didn't have really that second superstar.
They didn't have Tim Duncan at that point, Shaq and
(29:16):
Kobe we see they cancel each other out. Jordan Pippen
was never really an MVP discussion, right, Magic. When Magic
started winning them was when Kareem was older, you know.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
And I think Kareem's last one, Rob g correct me
if I'm wrong.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
I think Kareem's last one was Magic's rookie season.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
So mostly, yeah, Lebron won it.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Now, Lebron did win it with d Way, Rob, so
that's one where having another great teammates.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
I'm but no, I know you did not say every year.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
But for the most part, it is true that guys
canceled each other out.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
I think that's what herd Check and Kobe both and
it's unfortunate. But the thing that I think that that
and this was in the notes that we had today.
Chris just the joker in his favor that what is
the year robbed g nineteen eighty four, That MVP Chris?
Not since nineteen eighty four has won an MVP without
(30:17):
a All NBA player on the squad, without an All
Star like like how like he is waited?
Speaker 4 (30:24):
Not since nineteen ninety four eighty four has.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Someone won in a MVP award without an All Star
or All NBA teammate.
Speaker 4 (30:33):
Heep G.
Speaker 8 (30:34):
Jokic is the only MVP this hatchet Tim Haybristrow for
the show. Okay, only MVPs is eighty four who has
never had a teammate, never had an All Star in
All NBA or an All Defensive honor.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
That's crazy.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
I'll give you. I'll give you another now.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
DeAndre Jordan has was made an All Star team, but
he doesn't play much. So I guess does Abristraw did
he say starter?
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Yes? Yes, yeah, here's another one, guys, and.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
This will be for those because if Denver doesn't win
it this year, Jokics may get some criticism, right, but
the last eight MVP winners have not won the championship
that year.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
In fact, nine of the last ten have not.
Speaker 5 (31:15):
Won the championship's crazy, and the year one that won
it was Steph and then last year he didn't win
it and it won a championship right right.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Here's the other thing.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Rob Jokic is the only MVP to ever ever This
goes back to nineteen fifty seven or fifty six, whenever.
The first year of the league was the whole entire
history to NBA. Jokic is the only MVP to win
(31:45):
a championship without a fellow All Star starter.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Ever, Chris ever, ever, ever, ever.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
And people pointed to a Elajuwan in ninety what was
that ninety four or yeah, ninety five, No, Elijah, I
had oldest thort, not oldest thort, wasn't some phenomenal player,
but he had made an All Star team at that point.
And so yo, you can say with you Jamal Murray's
All Star caliber, but he ain't.
Speaker 4 (32:12):
Made an All Star team. And so that is.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
A feather in yoga just got there are knocks on yogis.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
Rob.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
He has never been He has never beaten a fifty
win team in the playoffs. And you know, we'll see
if they end up getting swept this year, so they
are not. He won to his first two MVPs without
winning fifty games. One of them was the pandemic shortened season.
But so there are some knocks against him, but that
but that's a heck of a feather in your case.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
I was gonna say, Chris, that's a badger.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
That's a badge of honor that nobody else has able
to do that. And that's when you talk about most
valuable and making other people better around you where you
have a chance to win, right that. That's that's so
when people are like always trying to, you know, make
a make a point about him, I mean, I don't
know how you can look at him. And now I'm
(33:03):
not saying the all time greatest player we's ever played, right,
but you gotta give the guy credit.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
Yeah, And Shoq talked about don't call it most valuable.
I mean it's not.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
The MVP is a great name, we're all used to it, right,
but it's not the most valuable because that's essentially immeasurable,
right And Rob, I mean, there could be a guy
on a thirty five win team that is of more
value to his team than any other player in the league.
You know, the other teams, Like, like I said, you
(33:35):
might have two All Stars on your team when the
Heat had Lebron, Wade and Bosh, not to mention Ray
Allen and Shane Battier.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
And some other good players.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Like was Lebron absolutely more valuable to that team then?
I don't know, some Loane All Star was to his
team that won forty one games. Maybe not right that
Heats team was gonna be really good anyway, they probably
wouldn't have won a championship.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
They wouldn't have. But still, it's not value.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
I don't know how you measure that other than some
of these analytics stats, and I don't think we just
want to totally go with that. So it is kind
of it's a missmash. But it is generally like a
player who had an outstanding season, his team won a
lot of games, usually fifty or more, they were a
(34:30):
high seed, and you know he's he's a star who
puts up incredible numbers. That's generally generally what it is, right,
And it doesn't go to the best player because Michael
Jordan was the.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
Best player.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Right exactly, and Lebron was the best for a large
chunk of time.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
So and I don't I think now.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Especially right like for those that say just give it
to the best, dude, I don't think you start that now,
because that's not fair. The Chamberlain and Lebron and Kareem
and you know what I mean, they have eight or
ten of them now right right, so you know it
is what it is.
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