Jeezy

In this powerful episode of Angie Martinez IRL Podcast, Jay "Jeezy" Jenkins takes us on a deeply personal journey through the remarkable chapters of his life as shared in his newly released book, "Adversity For Sale." Join Angie and Jeezy as they explore the incredible story of how he defied all odds to become the hip-hop icon we know today.

While basking in the glory of his music career's peak, Jeezy opens up about the emotional toll loss and tragedy that had an unrelenting impact on his psyche, despite the profound influence his music had on the culture. In a raw and candid conversation, Jeezy bravely discusses his battles with anxiety, paranoia, and even depression during his career, while revealing the resources and coping mechanisms he's harnessed to confront these challenges. He shares an inspiring story while also acknowledging that the road to self-discovery is an ongoing process.

Discover the evolved, "grown" Jeezy as he embarks on a journey to find genuine joy and happiness. Don't miss this heartfelt episode, where Jeezy opens up like never before and offers a glimpse into the man behind the music.

Important to note, this recording took place before Jeezy's recent separation from Jeannie Mai.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Edie Martinez in Real Life Podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
This episode and conversation is powered by I.

Speaker 3 (00:07):
Do say, what's the intro Adversity for Sale.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
I'm so happy you're here.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yes, I'm so happy you're telling it, telling your business
a little bit, the business. Nah, you got a story
to tell, when you got a story to learn from?

Speaker 2 (00:30):
The most importantly, I.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
Mean, you know, this book was it was every therapeutic,
you know what I'm saying. It was like a lot
of face and some reality, a lot of facing some
dark places I hadn't been in a while because I
had put all that stuff behind me, at least I thought.
But I start to see a lot of things come
out of my adult life that I'm just like, where
this is coming from? And now that I have the tools,
I'm like, oh, this is trauma, Oh this is anxiety.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
And this is why right when you read this you
feel like there's certain people that it's almost like it's ordained.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
It's like you were supposed to survive.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
You were supposed to survive all this stuff because the odds,
when you look at the stories from the beginning, the
odds were not.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
The odds are.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah, And what was a realization of that was everything
that I got into, even the stuff I talked to
about in the book. It wasn't like it was me
getting out of it, you know what I'm saying. It
was just like always like God put somebody in my
life or put me in a place that I was
supposed to be to talk to someone or just to
put me on the path to get some type of insight,
and it just always worked out no matter how hard

(01:33):
it was. Not to say that I didn't go through anything, Yeah,
but he always when it was it was so dark,
he always brought some type of light. Why do you
think I think this is my purpose? Like everything that
I went through is for me to be who I am,
somebody who put successes you. You know you're doing it
for you. Significance is doing it for others, you know

(01:55):
what I'm saying. I feel like that's that's why I'm here,
Because you don't scaped the things that I escaped just
for you, you know what I'm saying. It's for other people.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
It's for Did you always know that or you only
know that it's grown jeezy?

Speaker 3 (02:09):
I know that's grown Jesus. Yeah, I thought I was
lucky as hell. It's jeezy.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
Jesus, how did I get out of that?

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (02:16):
You know, And it was a lot of those situations.
And it was like the last time I got locked
up in LA when that shooting happened on a whiskey
leaf of tour. That's what really threw me because I
didn't do anything wrong, you know what I'm saying. But
I went through everything that somebody was guilty, did you
know what I'm saying. Like, I went through the jail,
the court cases, the beefing with the city, the civil suits,

(02:42):
and you know, it's the whole thing, and I'm just like, what.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
In there, You're actually like this, I actually don't deserve.

Speaker 3 (02:47):
I told my lawyer. I was like, I didn't do
nothing this time, I promise you. He was just like,
I don't know, you know. And but it only made
me stronger because the first day we got locked up,
you know, the team was down there to get me
out within the hour. M right, ten people a million
dollars in bail a piece. That's ten million dollars right

(03:10):
at the time, I didn't known any property in California,
so that's pretty much a cash barb right. And I
told my guy, said, Yo, listen, I'm gonna sit in here,
you know, cause I don't wanna tell nobody how to
get my money. I'm gonna sit in here and let
me figure out how to get this to you guys
so we can get everybody out. Mm. And that was
like one of my first like unselfish moments. You see

(03:32):
what I'm saying, And that's what I learned.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
How long ago is that? How many?

Speaker 3 (03:35):
Has? About five? Six years?

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (03:37):
So you already grown, grown you already like I do.
I'm you know, your in transition at that time, probably right.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
I was on my way. I think after that I
had no choice cause I just had my my oldest daughter.
She was a baby. I'm calling home from jails, like
the most embarrassing thing in the world. Like it really was,
like you like her hero? Yeah, she told me that,
you know when she was one, like you know, one

(04:05):
Tuesday like daddy and my hero. You know, she still
thinks that way. But what I'm saying is is, like
when is it gonna stop? Even though you didn't do
anything wrong, Like, when is it gonna stop? Like and
I took everybody.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
On you feel like that was karma from maybe stuff
that you didn't get.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yeah, one time, said, I tell anybody, Karma's real. And
I went through my I went through my share of
karma like it was. Some times it was.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
I want to take you up to that point. But
let's go back to the beginning, because we got to
get started. There's so much, Oh god, Jesse, it's so much,
and there's such good stuff in the book.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
Let's go to let's.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
Start, Young Jeezy, Young Baby, young Jeezy. Okay, just make
sure the statute illimitations.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
It's fine, no, But I just you tell a lot
of stories about you know, backstory about your family and
how that kind of shaped you and your problems with
your dad and all them feelings.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
But I didn't really.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
I had heard it. I don't know what in process
that you spent this time in Japan, your pans at
what age?

Speaker 3 (05:01):
And I lived in Hawaii, I want to say about
five six. That's not a small thing, no, but but
this is the thing. So my mother and dad married.
My dad was in the service. He took us off overseas.
I would come back every now and then to my
grandmother's house, which was the hood, right, But it's okay

(05:22):
when you come back. When they got divorced, I actually
had to go back and live. So now this is
like before, it's like oh oh, it's like, okay, this
is real, and you know.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
Without the protection of your father.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
Yeah, because he went he had to go back. He
took us there, and he had to go back and
you know, be a marine. And I knew that was
hard for him. But I took a lot of I
had a lot of resentment there and then the fact
that my mom I looked like my dad, Like so
my mom took a lot of that out on me,
which then made me go to the streets because now
I'm looking for love, you know what I'm saying, and belonging.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
I hear that a lot about boys who were raised
by single mothers who look like their fathers.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
I think it's a more common thing than.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
We Oh yeah, and I was where the mother just
sees the father. Yeah, And it was just like my
sister was you know, you know, I love my sister,
but she.

Speaker 4 (06:15):
Was like the angel. You know what I'm saying, you
do no wrong. You know, she could do no wrong
with me.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
Everything's wrong. And the streets.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
Did you know that as a kid though, did you know, like, oh,
she's she's looking at me like yeah, I'm fuck.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
I could tell. I could tell by her words her accident.
And you know, before my mother passed, you know, I
just did a lot of time just forgiving her because
she was a baby trying to raise a baby, right,
and she was trying to figure life out too. And
if you really think about our parents are really just
grown kids, you know what I'm saying, They're not. They're
not perfect just because they're your parents.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
So and they had less access to like the verbiage,
the mental health, health care, the just the self awareness.
They It was also addictions. I know your mom was
dealing with alcohol and drug and.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
Yeah, so all that was going on, and you know
she was trying the best to raise but we kept
bumping heads and you know we came to head one day,
you know, she pulled a gun on me because we
got in this big argument. I went to live with
my grandmother after that.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
But what does that do to you? How old are you?

Speaker 3 (07:19):
Maybe twelve thirteen?

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Okay, so twelve year old kid, I'm thinking about like
my godson, who are twelve?

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Your mother?

Speaker 3 (07:26):
Right? Well? I mean I didn't but I didn't look
at it any different though, because I mean I didn't
look at it like it was like the end of
the world. I felt like I just had to fight
with my mom like I'm gone because I wanted to
leave anyway, you know what I'm saying. So now I'm
with my grandmother.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
It didn't the gun part of it.

Speaker 3 (07:41):
Does it, Because by that time I was I was it.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
Guns were common part of life.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
It's common. And also it's just like our toxic behavior
was common, you know what I'm saying. Like it was
just toxic. You know what I'm saying. It was like
you thought I was married. It's like just like all
the time and we just couldn't get it together.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
I think I remember the old docuted with def jam
you talking about that, and she said that you had
told her if you if you pull that gun out,
you gotta use it, you better use it. And when
I think about that for a twelve year old and
you as a father, now, just when you think about
what that would do to a twelve year old boy.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
But I'm gonna tell you that, and you know, and
I'm just being honest with you. I had to happen
in my life. I won't get into the details, but
you know, with my first born, we got to that point.
So I can see because when your child doesn't want to,
you know, vibe by anything you're saying, then it's like,
what do you do? I mean, of course we're in

(08:37):
a better.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
Place now, thank god.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
Yeah, but it was like it was a point like
he was a grown man. I'm just like, man, like,
you know, you got you gotta respect something. He's like, nah,
I'm got you know, she's going through the same thing
that I went through with my dad. Like I'm alreadre
trying to take care of everybody. But then you know,
and TDJ said it best. You know when you when
you out here, you you're gonna lose on that side

(09:03):
with your kids. Cause as a black man, you gotta
get out here and do you gotta go above and
beyond to take care of your people, right, So that
cuts into your time when you actually being there as
a father for your kids, cause you're the provider. You
gotta go out here and figure it out. And for
me with him, it was kind of a little tricky
because you know, I'm providing, but my lifestyle was like

(09:27):
it's not what you want your kid to see, right,
you know what I'm saying. So I'm trying to tell him.
He like, man, you you know, you know, I'm on
the news and being like he was. He told me,
like when I got locked up that time, when that
thing happened in La even though I didn't do that,
He's like, I'm disappointed, you know what I'm saying, Like
that that that that cut deep, you know.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
And then also you were this was before probably your transition,
working on yourself and all that.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
You you know, you're jeezy.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
You gotta fuck you're you gotta you gotta marvel people
who who look up to you and your son, and
you can't just from an ego perspective, not being able
to have your son in check, I guess, and that too.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
But like you know, he he was in the projects
with me. My son was born in the projects. You
know what I'm saying. He came into projects, and so
he's seen that life like he wasn't. He wasn't a
trust fund kid at least then he wasn't. So he
he knows he had his traumas into things that I
wanted wasn't even aware of because when he was leaving
with his mom, I don't know what he was going

(10:30):
through and what was going on there. And and it's
just like, you know, I had to kind of like
sit back and really take a look at myself and
put myself in his shoes and be like, how does
he feel? What's going on with him? Like what's he
dealing with?

Speaker 1 (10:44):
But the same way you talk about your kids, your
parents being kids, big kids trying to figure out.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
And you was a kid.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, I was a kid. You know for a long
time that I shouldn't have been, if I'm being honest,
because I didn't know any better and there wasn't anything
around me to could tell me different. Again, and when
you have a level of success, you think you know
everything in the world.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
I love that you share that because you know how
many people even when I think about your music and
how I know how your music affects me.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
Right.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
I was thinking about that today on the way here
because I put I was put, I put a g
Z play listen, and I'll be on the golf course
on purpose. It feels good to be you know what
I'm saying. It feels good to be in an environment
where you're not.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Really supposed to be doing it.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
Your music makes you feel rebellious and it makes you
feel like, you know, it's what we love about your ship,
Like I can only imagine somebody who's actually living a
life that you was talking about, especially in the early records,
how it feels to that end, right, So you have
this thing where people resonate to your words so much

(11:46):
that when the adult you shares a story about how
you have progressed as a parent or what you learned
about being a son of some dysfunction, do you feel
it impacting people the way like maybe some of your
some of your songs. It's a long way to ask
the question, but it's just I'm talking about like how
you how people respond to you, and how the impact

(12:07):
in real life.

Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yeah, like outside of rap, outside of music. And that's
what's been interesting about the book. It's just like the
people that's been coming to the signings, of the regular
people who just want to do better in life.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
And especially now that we've grown.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
Right, right, And I think for me, like being able
to have these conversations and be transparent, I'm hoping that
it brings us closer together, you feel, I'm saying because
a lot of people just knew my work, they didn't
know me. You know, I had this wall up, and
that was to keep people out, but it also kept
me in so as I'm being open and transparent because

(12:46):
I learned that about relationships, Like I had a lot
of great friends, like I knew Lebron on them before
everybody did you know what I'm saying. But it's like,
how you Lebron gonna be cool with the street guy
who says three words when we're hanging out, you know
what I'm saying. So it's like and as time went on,
I'm just like, like, you know, I'm supposed to be
building relationships with people, but they don't know me because
I'm so I was so guarded because that served me

(13:07):
in the streets. And when I figured out in real
life that that doesn't serve me anymore, then that's when
the shift happened. And before then I was living for survival, right,
But when you start living for love, But I mean
like love, like in general, it's just a different feeling.
Like you want real good people close to you. They
gonna let you know when you're going too far, They're
gonna they're gonna they're gonna be there for you when

(13:28):
you celebrate your highest moments. They're gonna be there for
you when you at the lowest moments right, and and
what you have can add value to their life, and
what they have can add value to yours. Because there's
been a lot of times where I've just been in
situations and somebody like, Yo, I'm doing this, you should
be a part of it, And I'm just like, why
would you do that for me? You know what I'm saying,
Because I come from a world where people nobody does

(13:49):
nothing anybody, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, So it's
like I'm coming from that, but then now I'm starting
to see that there's actually good people in the world.
You have people you know in the building, depth Jam,
you know what I'm saying, that always have your back.
You know what I'm saying, not everybody you know. Shout
out to Shauna, shout out to Natina. They love me here.

(14:13):
Petos and those guys changed my life, you know, because
it was it was either you was going to be
a superstar, he was going to prison.

Speaker 4 (14:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
I always saw that because I was around them days too,
So I used to see how they moved moved around
you when you were in when when you were present
or not even to this day, even in Tina, the
way they talk about you and hold you up even
when you're not in the room. It says a lot
about how I feel about you.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, And it's even some of the experiences, like even
going to I remember I want to go to Harlem
to do something and Petcos had me on Washington Heights
and all, and I'm just like it was loving me.
I'm just like, oh, wow, you know, I got the
Spanish brothers would like anything. I'm like, no, we don't
need to lay nobody down. I just want you, you know,
getting looked. But but but love. You know what I'm saying,

(14:57):
aren't you used to that?

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Because you I don't remember what part of the book
it was, but you talk about how people like used
to ride for you, like you had like fourteen fifteen
neighborhoods that people would you know, I'm talking about earlier
in the beginning, when people started really that would do
pretty much do anything for you.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
Doing anything for somebody who doesn't know what they need
to be doing. That's not real. I love them still
to this day, but I was leading them wrong. The
only thing they could offer me at the time was,
you know, something that was gonna protection well, just something
that was gonna put us all in the buying, and
that's the thing, Like you know, you could say protection,

(15:35):
but no, because if it ever went down, I was
on the front line with them. You know what I'm saying.
They don't never say that, but the love that they
were offering me, that they was giving me was genuine love.
I know they love me because I love them. But
it's almost like being somebody who's going to the draft
and your first round draft pick. You might love everybody

(15:56):
that you went to school with, everybody from your neighborhood,
but you're not gonna be able to take them on
football field with you, on the team bus and all
these different things. So it's just like, you know, and
I don't. I can't. I don't want to speak out
a turn. But it's just like I feel for Jamaran.
I feel for him right because he's in his mind
it makes sense right, but in the world it doesn't

(16:20):
make sense. And I can understand. I've been there, you know,
thousands of times, so I have empathy for him, you
know what I'm saying, because he's only doing what he
thinks is right right, but there's a different set of rules,
and even for myself, I only tell him what I
thought was right, because there was a different set of rules.

(16:42):
Thank god, you know what I'm saying. I didn't have
to pay the ultimate price, right. But you always had
a vision for yourself.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
I feel like you even say that you had you
I Verdy say you you saw yourself, Yes, as an
adult man with the.

Speaker 3 (16:57):
Family rolls goal say wrote plain Jane, Okay, plain Jane,
watched Jane.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
But good skin, Where did that vision come from as
a child. There's nothing in your life should tell you
that that was going.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
To be like, it looks like that's what success looked
like to me, you know what I'm saying. And it's
crazy because I told my uncle the other day, him
and his wife. I told her it was over at
the house. I was like, you know, I want to
give you all y'all flowers because they probably been married
like forty years. I was like, y'all, the first family
that I ever saw that was a dysfunction. You guys
were real family. You raise your kids right and everything,

(17:32):
and I strive for that, you know what I'm saying,
Meaning like that the peace of mind they had because
there was only people in the family that really had
their stuff together. They had a cool house. You just
need something. He was a good guy. Wouldn't know, you know,
this is your uncle, Yeah, my uncle. As I gave
him as problems, I was just like man, you know,
and and to me, you know, it was a lot

(17:55):
of different things, like I talked about uncle Will my
uncle Russell, but Russell in the uh in the my
grandmother's neighborhood that got to own the shop that I
stole the radio from.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, that was terrible.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
Why do you do that to that man? I mean
I wanted the radio. I didn't have a car, but
I wanted the car radio. This is the first thing
he ever stole. Yeah, it was a radio, and the
first thing I got away with wasn't the last.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
You know, where's the radio? Now? Who knows?

Speaker 3 (18:17):
It's all bad? But he was the first entrepreneur I
ever met.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
So he inspired you.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
And yeah because he owned liked them. Yeah, but what
I learned from that is you don't you don't take
from people, Because.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
I I wonder what you said if you would have
asked me to give it to you.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
But I wondered when I read that, and I heard,
you know, you talk a lot about your earlier you stealing.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
And all of that.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
As young jeezy, young, young, young, young, jeezy, Little Jay,
little j as Little J.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Was the I don't know.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
It took me to like I remember being a kid
and my mother, my mother was a single mother, little
tiny apartment uptown. I found twenty dollars in her co
pocket and I was so excited because I thought, I'm gonna.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
Go to school.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
I'm worth the weeks worth of snacks and you know
what I'm saying, elementary school. So I took the twenty dollars.
And then I was in an apartment and I heard
my mother on the phone with her sister crying because
it was her last twenty dollars and she couldn't find it,
and she wrecking the whole apartment upside down. It was
her last twenty dollars. It was for groceries. It was

(19:19):
all shit.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
And I remember being a little kid sitting there like
I ain't.

Speaker 3 (19:23):
Sh right right.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
I didn't have the courage to tell my mother or
to give it back because I didn't want to own it.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
I was too young.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
But it's the guilt, even though I didn't really know
it was guilt then because I was a little kid,
but the guilt was enough for me to be mindful enough,
like that wasn't cool.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yeah, because I had this instance where.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
I was wondering if that happened to you, and.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
Then yeah, it happened, well a few times. What happened.
One time when I was younger, I was like my
older cousin. They were hustlers like so they was like
the guys and the family had all the money. And
I used to go to the aunt my auntie's house,
which is their mother, and I used to like, you know,
like sneak a little money out the bag because they
would have bags money all around the house and I
never forget. One day they had put a bag in

(20:03):
the baby crib and this time I was gonna take
the whole bag, right, So I get the bag and uh,
I go hide it downstairs under the sofa. So I'm
waiting for my other auntie to take us back home,
and my cousin came in. He was like, yo, where
that bag? That was it? And they started all looking
for the bag and you sitting there sitting on the bag.
But I didn't know the bag had a beeper in it,

(20:25):
and he said, we just page. It had my page
and he pays the bag and sitting under me you
know what I'm saying. I'm just like, damn, how old
are you? I mean like fourteen? Oh? Like just you
know it's all bad now what happened. I mean, of
course they went in, but you know, I tried to
play it off like I didn't know what it was.
But I started to learn then.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Like you embarrassed, yeah, very very And.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
I started to learn then like it's I don't think
it's a good idea to steal. You know what I'm saying.
Maybe this is, but don't don't steal. And that just
taught me a lot of lessons. And it's like my
grandma used to tell me, like she she don't she
she cool with anything in this world. Would have two things,
a liar and a thief. And I understand why you

(21:14):
know you were so close to her. Yeah, you talk
about that. I love my grandma. My grandmother raised me
like she gave me faith, made me go to church.
I think right now, if I was if my grandmother
wasn't in my life, I don't I don't know where
I would be as a man because I wouldn't have
I wouldn't have any faith, right, I wouldn't have any morals.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
You credit that would like say, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:35):
For sure, my my my mother and father never talked
to me about God, what I believe or what does
she tell you? She made me go to church every Sundays.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Gonna go to church, and it doesn't hit that for well.

Speaker 3 (21:48):
Every you know, the old school everything you credit to God, like, oh,
thank you Lord. My grandma ran numbers, so I don't know,
you know, if that is like the lottery in the hood.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Are you kidding me?

Speaker 3 (21:59):
Numbers? Grandfather Like, thank you Lord. I'm like, okay, I
don't know if he got anything to do with that,
but I but she just instilled that in me. And
it's just like when I got to my Dogg's moments,
that's all I could do is pray, you know what
I'm saying, cause it was nobody else there with you
that was gonna walk through this with you. And I
felt like, you know, it's just like you got you

(22:21):
got to talk to God. And that came from my grandmother.
And I'm just so glad. Like when I say glad,
I mean I think mad Louke Pickett for everything, because
she made me who I was. And it's the craziest thing,
like she never got a chance to see nothing I did,
cause she's always telling me, boy, you're gonna get killed,
You're gonna go to jail. But everything I did that

(22:43):
was supposed to be wrong was the same foundation that
I stood on to become the man I am to dance.
She never saw any.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
Of it, m you know, and she had so much
to do with it.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
Yeah, she never saw any So when she passed, all
she knows that her grandson's in the streets trying to
figure out his life. And I remember, you know, I
knew that then too. Like that's how I know that
something was wrong, because when she passed, like I didn't
shed a tear, you know what I'm saying. I was sad,
but I was just like not a single tear, nah,
because I'm like, I gotta go out here and be

(23:15):
a man now. Like I ain't got no support system,
I ain't got no I ain't got nobody, you know
what I'm saying. Like, you can't call you know, I
was to call my grandma, I'd get in gangs and shit,
I'd be like grad you know what I'm saying. I
had a few shootouts on the front polls tossed to
the strap, ran out the back door, like shut it. Oh,
one thousand, one thousand.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
That's why you loved it so much.

Speaker 3 (23:35):
But she let me. She gave me a free rein
like she let me like live, like like I used
to come in, you know, I'm fifteen, sixteen years old,
coming in three four o'clock in the morning. Like her.
Her door was, her front door was always open, like
no matter what. That's why I say when I say
hit the kitchen lights, caught roaches everywhere. That's what it was.
I come in. She might leave some food on the
stove when the microwave be coming there. You knocked the

(23:56):
roches off of everything. You put the thing and heat
it up. Might still be rogers in the microwave. You
sit down and eat. My uncle comes stumbling in the house,
you know, three four o'clock in the morning. He lit.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
I love when you talk about your grandmoma.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
I love your death. Yeah, yeah, I got, I got
on my arm.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
You have dealt with a lot of grief.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
Well, I don't know if you've dealt with it, but
you've experienced a lot of loss. Yes, people, not just
people you know, but like the closest to you.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Your grandmother, close friends, mother.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Mother, how do you deal with that? How do you
process grief? And I'm sure now differently maybe than you
did back then.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
I'm gonna keep it a book. I haven't figured that
part out yet. I'm gonna be honest, like I'm trying
to learn about it every day. I'm not there.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yet, really, yeah, none of it.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
I just don't. I don't understand how to process it
like and and that's being all the way honest. So
does it still trigger you?

Speaker 2 (24:53):
Like? Do you?

Speaker 3 (24:54):
When I read the audio version of the book for
the book for the audible, it called me a few times,
you know, Shaki my mother, Which why I don't really
get into my mother part of the book a lot
because I just feel like that's something I need to
keep close to me and tiw I figure it out.
But just even just a lot of the homies, like
you know, like and just a lot of friends, you

(25:17):
know what I'm saying, Like I'm still trying to figure
that part out.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Do you not feel it? Are you turned off it's
like the force at all for something? Or do you
feel it and just don't do anything?

Speaker 3 (25:27):
Just like just young after you lose so much, you
just you just you're numb. You don't it don't even
process the same, right, you know what it is and
you understand it, but you don't allow yourself to to
feel it, right, because yeah, rightly so, because you know,

(25:51):
I've been good at like I'm one of them people
like I'm good at like sweeping things to the side
and put them in the back of your mind. Are
you saying, yeah, we think we are this way. I've
done it great up until now. And as I was
writing the book, a lot of those things came back,
you know what I'm saying, and it's just like, Okay,
what are you gonna do about this? And why you

(26:13):
and and it just been one of those learning experiences
where you just sit back and you just like damn,
you know, like this is a real thing, Like and
what served me in this life doesn't serve me in
my life now, you know what I'm saying, meaning like
it was good then because it kept me safe, right,

(26:36):
it kept me solid, you know, you can it matters,
you know what I'm saying. These are people, these are
people you love, these are people you care about, and
it's like you can't put them off because I had
to realize that even with my past, It's like I
can't fault these people in my life that loved me,
you know, for what somebody else did to me in

(26:56):
my past right and handled them the same way, because
this is what I know, right, you know how you
like you kind of like it's almost like being in
a bad relationship, but you just treat everybody, you know.
It's like it's like, you know a lot of things
happened where I was just being like I was. I
was just like unbelievable. You know, It's like, how can
you do that to me? You know what I'm saying, Silences,

(27:18):
I was you and it's just like I had a
lot of that. And on this side, you know, I'm
getting better at chipping out a way to just you know,
take that in.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
How are you doing that therapy?

Speaker 3 (27:28):
Talking, reading, reading, you know, talking to people I love,
you know, talking to people I respect. You know what
I'm saying, Just educating yourself on it because it's real
and I feel like, you know, even with musically, I
feel like I haven't even touched the iceberg with that yet,
you know what I'm saying, because just imagine a damn

(27:49):
that's just that's holding all the water and you finally
break it.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
Are you gonna let it break at some point in
your life?

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Yeah, I would hope.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
So you want to the same way you talk about
you can't leave the earth without I can't leave the
earth with any of that.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
But that's what I'm working on, chipping away, you know
what I'm saying. I'm chipping at it every day. Every day,
I'm chipping at it. Every day, I'm knocking the piece
off the wall. Because to me, it's just like you
start to see the light on the other side, it
just gets brighter and brighter, and you just like, oh shit,
you know, let me just keep at this and keep
chipping away, like I do my best to kind of
because I'm so glad that I have the tools now

(28:25):
cause I didn't have the tools before, right, and I
could check myself very self aware if I feel myself,
you know, getting too far on this side, I know
how to be like Okay, let's just say. I mean,
I'm i'm'a keep it a buck, like I ain't got
no shame. Like I I'll show you right now. I
walk around right now on my phone. If you get
my phone right now, it's a picture of me when
I was five. Run the phone cause I talk to

(28:47):
that guy all the time, like you're good. I mean,
you know he'd be good. Sometimes sometimes you be tripping,
you know. Oh yeah, you gotta do your work on
your and a child because I you know, when you
was yonding through so much, you know, craziness. You know
what I'm saying that you can't allow that guy to
seep into your adult life. You know what I mean,
You got a parent him, you know what I'm saying,

(29:08):
because he'll have you out here doing some shit. You
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
People like, you know, Mary talks about that a lot.
Mary always talking about what she tells little Mary Man.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
People think that's a joke, but it's it's real. Yeah. Yeah,
you got to parent them because you know they you
react when you get in situations. You react to those
situations how you how you react the same way you
did when you first felt that trauma.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
So if he was five, you're gonna react like he
was five. You're thirteen, youact like you're thirteen. If you're
twenty two, you're gonna react like you're twenty two. It
doesn't matter. It's beyond your control. You know, you have
the parent you're in a child so that you're able
to say, hey, look, you know, I know what you
want to do, but we're not gonna do that. Like
we're gonna sit down and think about this. We're gonna
breathe a little bit, you know what I'm saying. We
gonna educate, we're gonna chill. You know what I'm saying. Yeah,

(30:00):
you know me, it usould be times. Boy, he'd be
like they wouldn't even let me in the radio stage.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
I know, I'm clear, I've seen it, want me to.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
But you know, when we think about an artist and
the people that we hold up high as like you know,
the pillars in the community that we love for even
if it was for just toxic reasons, we loved.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
You, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
So when we could take the pillars and we and
we can see you evolve, it's really a gift.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
But it's crazy because even going back to Mary with Mary,
like you said, it's just like it's sad that like
I can't say sad but because it's art, but it's
almost like people want to marry break up album. No,
I don't want to.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
Be happy as her friend. That it pisses me off
anytime I heard somebody.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
But people want a gezy you know street. It's just like,
you know, I'm like, man, I'm working on myself. Man,
I'm trying to you know what I'm saying, I'm trying
to be a better me. And it's like we don't
want that. They do want it, We do want but
it's it's it's like you know, that's it's a thin
line you walk.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
Because people are suffering, so they're still in the There's
a lot of people still going through some of the
things that you've kind of already worked through, so they
looking for that thing to connect to.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
But that's why I want to connect to them in
a different way. Yeah. So it's almost like you have this.
I mean, somebody gave me thinking grow Rich. It changed
my life, you know what I'm saying, Like, you know,
I've read that book several times, but it's just like,
you know, that was a gift that somebody gave me.
And I'm just saying, like, what's a lot of knowledge
in this book? Right, and it applies to me. I
know the guy who wrote it don't know me, but

(31:29):
still right, and I look at the same way. But
it's like it's the gift of the curse. You know
when you when you're on your down, respiring, you just
doing things out of spite and you just wading out
of control. You on top of the world, you selling
means and records tour, But is that on top of
the world.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
What's on top of the world for you? Like what
are you your happiest.

Speaker 3 (31:49):
When of my my happiest when when when I'm serving people,
Like when I'm like even like doing shows, that's like
my full It's like my it's like my sermon. This
is my church. This is where and I love it,

(32:10):
Like I love to connect with people. I love to
see them rejoice. I love to see them react. And
it's just like that's that's me, you know, no TD Jakes,
but this is my thing, Like this is my church
for today?

Speaker 1 (32:25):
Is that what you Because I wonder, like you say,
you're still in it, like you're still you still revert
back to old things sometimes, what is the thing you
tell yourself when you're you know, what is the motivation
right now?

Speaker 3 (32:37):
Three?

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Like what is the motivation?

Speaker 3 (32:40):
The motivation would be for me, you know, is to
continue evolving so that I can continue to pull in
to the culture. Because it's just like you know it's
me and you talking because we talk on that level.
Like you know, I'm I'm up early, I'm up four
thirty five every more, I'm reading, podcasting in the morning,

(33:02):
I'm journaling, I'm doing all I mean, people might I mean,
it don't matter, but they.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Say it's the that's the way to be the.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
Most productive, and that's how you manifest.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
That's how you win the day.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
They say, that's how you bring things to real life.
And I'm up, like I'm up getting it in and
I'm learning, and I'm educating myself and I'm researching things
and I'm going you know, I'm doing all these things
before people even get up to when you see me
during the day, you know, I'm on ten. I don't
meditating und there everything. I know it sounds crazy, it doesn't,
but it's just like, that's are you.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
Meditating every day every day?

Speaker 3 (33:35):
This morning?

Speaker 2 (33:36):
How many how long?

Speaker 3 (33:37):
We only had thirty minutes this morning because I had
to go.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
Do that's thirty minutes is solid meditation.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
But it's the best. I mean, change you, yeah, because
now you know I can control my anger. I can
control you know, my frustrations. Say, I got a lot
of clarity when I do things. Now, I'm not just
doing things because I just feel like it. So you
wake up.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
At five am and you meditate every day every day.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
Wow, I'm reading a book. I'm doing something, yeah, journaling.
And it's crazy because I got friends you know, that
I talk to and they'll call me, well, you're doing
the morning. I tell them, you know not most of
em are doing that, and I'm watching their lives take off,
and they're like, oh, this is crazy. You know what
I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah, you're inspiring me because one of the things I
know I need to do for myself. Well, number one,
I don't meditate enough. I try, sometimes I don't do
it enough. Golf in a weird way has become like
a little bit of meditation. I go by myself and
it becomes like an out walking kind of meditation.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
But I go by myself. Yeah, but I guess.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
But because it comes to thing, it's like a meditation
for me. But and I know I need to get
up earlier. I know that's the thing changes the day.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
Right, it changed. It changes your life.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
You know what I'm saying, Get down a little.

Speaker 3 (34:42):
Bit because you get up early, right, you got time
to do everything that you need to do before you
even come into contact with people. So you do all
the things.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
Are You're not on your phone in the morning.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
No, I don't touch my phone the first three hours
I'm up. You know what I'm saying the most, have
I got something going on, I give it an hour
at the least that the most, like three hours, Like
that's my time.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
You're so disciplined.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
Yeah, because that's the only thing that's gonna keep me
going because I have to take that time to you know,
to learn to journal, to figure things out. Right, So
you imagine doing that year round, right. So before I
was just getting up when I just needed to get
up and go do what I had to do, which
I was productive. But now I'm like a hundred times

(35:24):
more productive, right, and them a hundred times more keen
to what's going on. I'm actually learning things, you know,
throughout the day.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
You on your guru ship right now, it's crazy.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
I respect it. Let's and I'll reach out to some
of these people like I'll reach out to you know,
and my and my mentor list is like crazy, it's
not what you think, like John Maxwell, TD Jakes, Robert Green,
Louis howe this way, that way, just going.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Robert Green just hopped my DMS.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
The other day. You gotta rock with him, that's my main.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
I don't know him personally.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
He was telling you got another book coming, Yeah, he
has the anniversary coming up here.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
Robert go out. Me and Robert go out. When I'm
in l A. We go out to the uh Man's
Health Club downtown, sit and have tea. Who are he s?
Didn't have tea and maybe lunch? And I just asked
him questions. Brilliant, brilliant. He's like, it's crazy the way

(36:24):
he understands people.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
I want to him, can I have tea with you?

Speaker 3 (36:30):
We'll play golf and half tea. But but and I'm
not even trying to be funny. It's just like when
you're sitting around people like that, that's just you got
to think. He wrote the forty eight Laws of Power,
all the seduction. He understands, so you can ask him questions.

Speaker 2 (36:41):
I'm going to book him on the pot. I need him.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
He's dope, Yeah, for sure, he's dope. He's dope. But
all those guys are John Maxwell, Yeah, you know, next level,
Steve Harvey for sure.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
You know you talk about dealing with you have this
thick skin, yes, of course, and you're all the things
that you do, discipline and all those things, but you
did go periods where you went deal with anxiety and
paranoida even depression at some points. And I don't know
how bad did that get for you? And then how
did how did you get to the other.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
Side of that rock bottom?

Speaker 2 (37:16):
But what is that?

Speaker 1 (37:16):
What did that look like? How did that show up?
Like when you say paranoid, what is that?

Speaker 3 (37:20):
Or I mean I was what what it was was,
I was having a bunch of nightmares about you know,
skinting caught up what was going on even after the fact.
I'll talk about the book as well, and it it
the nightmares just got bad, you know what I'm saying.
And it was just it was just bad. And again

(37:42):
like I went to my vices, you know, and.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
I was drinking.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
But I was like I wasn't like just drinking. I
was like drinking just the numb self soue smoking a
lot too. I don't know why I did that, cause
I have you in your head, so that that wasn't good.
The anxiety again, like I thought something was wrong with me.

(38:08):
I didn't know what I was experiencing because I hadn't
heard the word yet, right.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
And what was happening, Like, how was it showing?

Speaker 3 (38:15):
I mean, it just it's almost like you can feel
the like when you get in a certain situations, like
you feel the toxins in your blood, like you just
feel it, like you just you just feel like it's
very hard to explain. Yeah, you feel like you're on fire.
You can't really breathe, you can't function, you can't think.
You know what I'm saying. It feels like the walls
are closing in.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
I asked you that because I've had that feeling and
I didn't have anxiety my whole life, or at least
I didn't think I did. Then after the accident, it
was like a year where I would be and I
would be in safe, I would it would happen in
the most random place. I was at Pegas's house one time,
his daughter's birthday party, and I was like, I have
to leave, and I didn't know what was happening to me,
but I just felt so tight and I in that moment,

(38:58):
even though I was going through it, and I knew
I had to get out of it, and I know
it was just left over from accident and lost and
sadness and all that. But I was like, oh, this
is the ship people be talking about and it's so
hard to explain the feeling of it, but it could
make you feel like.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
You're about to die or crazy or like.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
And I had to learn. I had to research and
learn about it because you know, I was at doctor
is jeezy. I was like at first, you know, until
I learned about it. But then when I just started
learning about breathing and stuff, that was like a game
changing for me. You know, to be able to control
your breathing and slow yourself down and just like get
to a place where you mobilize. And you know that

(39:41):
took a lot because I was like, you, I'll be
sitting somewhere, I just get up and go. People like
where you went, I'm ab out of there.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
You know why what were you feeling?

Speaker 3 (39:48):
I mean, it's just like I had to leave no
matter what, just and if I didn't like it was
crazy because like sometimes it would get so crazy like
I might black out, you know what I'm saying, because
it got that bad, m you know what I'm saying.
And I didn't wanna black around anybody. But the other
thing was.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
To pass out.

Speaker 3 (40:06):
Yeah why and then depression like you know, probably up
until like from O four to about eight h that
was real. That was y. You imagine waking up every
day feeling like, you know what I'm saying, I don't
wanna I don't wanna be here, like I don't like

(40:26):
every day. And I didn't snap out up it until
I started writing A Recession. I d I just when
I snapped out of it, and it was like it
was crazy cause I was like going through this situation,
I was breaking up with somebody. It was just like area,
I'm like, ah, I'm go get my body again. I'm'a
go ahead and write this record. Everything just happened at
one time, and I just came to my grips. I

(40:47):
was like, yo, brou you a superstar. You got a career,
You gotta focus, you gotta get back. So everything that
I learned from the streets, actually I steal back in myself,
my discipline and everything. And that's when I started to
learn about what depression was us right, because I didn't
know what it was. I just thought then I was
just dealing with being a black man trying to figure
out life, don't know if you're going to jail or not.

(41:09):
You don't know if you're going to be alive or not,
like that's what you're thinking it is, But it's like
all those things compiled on you know, just where you're
at and how you're taking care of yourself right, and
then what are your surroundings Because I wasn't around like
positive people, you know what I'm saying, Like nobody around
me trying to uplift me. Nobody check on me, you straight,

(41:33):
you know, And I learned that when Shaqui is just
like you got to check on your strong friends, your
strong friends. You just never know what somebody going through.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
Shakier.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
Obviously you talk about him a lot, and I have.
I knew Shaki, but not as well as some very
close people to me. So I was around people who
were grieving so bad, you know, Margo's family, Pat guys.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
I just knew a lot of people that were very
close to him.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
And I remember when the news came and everybody was
so shocked, cause he didn't seem like somebody who would
take his own life right. And for s for you, somebody,
he changed your life right, Yes.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
And I'll never forget I got the car. I was
going to Florida to do a show and I was
on the tour bus and my man called me. He
was like yo. I was like what's He said? You good?
I was like yeah, I'm straight.

Speaker 4 (42:18):
What's going on? He was like, man, I just wanna
tell you, man, Shake ain't here no more. And I
was like, what you mean, He's not here? You know,
He's just like, he's not here. And I kind of
sat down on the bus. I said, Okay, I'm about
to walk out and perform him from the thirty thousand people.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
He say, he he's not here. Man, he killed herself.

Speaker 4 (42:34):
And I'm just like it it didn't and and uh,
what's his name's wife called me, uh, Elliott Wilson cause
there was friends from the Bay and she said is
it true?

Speaker 3 (42:45):
And I was just like y, I can't c f geah.
And that was the last car and I just remember
I went. I did the show, which probably like the
two man like, I can't even I wasn't even in
my right mind. And I remember going back to my
my house and I literally lay in the bed for
two weeks, like going through every thought of why I

(43:08):
didn't see well I didn't see the signs, you know
what I'm saying. I'm just like, why why didn't I
like w what? And then why didn't he talk to me?
Cause we talked about everything else, you know what I'm saying.
I just didn't understand it an and and man, it
was just like did.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
That trigger the depression? Was that around the time or I.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
Mean it only added on to it, you know what
I'm saying. Around that time. One of my other homies
had that was young with us we I I I
ended up dropping him off in the federal penitential. When
he got his time, he had got out, he become
a Muslim, he was trying to get his life together,
and around that same time he got killed and then
it was just like a domino effector he was just

(43:49):
like you know, back to back to back to back,
and I was just like, Dad, I just need a break,
like I just need to breathing, you know what I'm saying. Like,
and it was just like but the shape thing.

Speaker 4 (43:58):
Like I don't know, man, because you talking about somebody
who has so much energy and was so just like
and just so charismatic and so funny, and it's just like.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Where do you put it now, like after working on
yourself a bit and thinking about it so much.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
In front, I ain't dealt with that shit like I
I don't even know how.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
You know, but you felt that you felt the pain
of it.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
I don't know what I felt, if I'm honest, like
I can't, I can't lie. I don't, I don't, I
don't know, you know, like I'm just it was just,
you know, it's just like it was, you know, it
was like one of those things you want to wake
up from and you just like, I don't think. I
think it's real, you know, and it's crazy too, and
I'm not just and I don't I definitely don't want
to bring it down to beat, but it'd be sometimes

(44:44):
I might be going through my phone looking for somebody's
number and pull up a number and I'm just like, man,
it's somebody who ain't here, somebody who's gone. You just
like sh and you don't want to raise the number
right and and it just you know. And that's why
I always give Shake executive credit on anything I do musically,
because you know, Shake was the one to convinced Ellie

(45:07):
and Kevin LUs to sign me. He really saved my life.
If you didn't sign, if I ain't, if death jam
isn't signed me the timey sign me. I've been in prison,
there's no doubt about it. Go worse.

Speaker 4 (45:17):
Yeah, Like, so he really saved my life single him.

Speaker 3 (45:21):
He did that.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
It's interesting because you we always talk about to talk
on your strong friends, and he's a wonderful I think
of Chris lightighty. I think of so many people that
you think, wow, why And it really to me is
one of the reasons I do this. Pot is probably
one of the reasons you write the book. Is this
that we don't have and we weren't raised with the
outlets to be able to be like, yo, I'm in

(45:42):
trouble express yourself. Yes, especially a black man in this war,
in this space.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
You're a rapper, you're you from the street.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
You gotta be hard, Like when are you out here
being vulnerable like yo, I'm hurting? When do you say
that you don't? Yeah, well that's doesn't that doesn't well
we've learned that.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
No.

Speaker 3 (46:02):
Yeah, but it's just like you know, the people on
a superhero.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
You still feel like that. Do you feel like you
got to be a superhero still? Or is that is
that armor coming down.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
Take care of my people. I don't I don't like again. Like,
vulnerability to me now is is power. It brings people closer,
like you know you and by the way, I want
to own me before they do. You know my flaws.
You know what I'm saying. Cool, you know what I'm saying.
What you gonna say next. But it's different now because

(46:33):
it's like it's coming from a place of like wanting
to help rather than me just saying what I'm going through.
And the thing about it is when you're coming from
my generation, which was a different generation, it's that much harder.

Speaker 4 (46:50):
So imagine being the lone guy it made it.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
Like the single person that made it. Imagine that pressure.
Imagine those close calls without that type of support and
you're trying to navigate this shit, you know. So when
you see me telling my story of being vulnerable as
places like I don't give the money's already made. I'm
not tripping like we we were good, you know what
I'm saying. But it's like, how can I pour back

(47:17):
into my people? Like how can I give back what
I took away? Like how can I be you.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Know, well, you're doing that right now, But what a
what do you what is the one thing like when
it's all over and in the book, the real book,
the end of the book is there, right? What is
the thing that if if you could have been one
thing to change people's lives, what is the one lesson
the one.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
Thing live forward di empties? Like I gave everything I
had and and my kids, my family and my supporters
and everybody know that I was an honorable man like
I was. I was, I was the one like I
came and I did what was supposed to be done
for for us like I didn't. I didn't do it

(48:00):
for me, Like I'm not doing this for a person. Again,
I had a great life before this, you know what
I'm saying, Like I had jury calls, all the shit.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
That people you were so motivated by money, young like you.

Speaker 3 (48:13):
But let me tell you why I was motivated by
money because I thought the money was going to be
the answer to all my problems. Oh no, problems was
just starting.

Speaker 4 (48:21):
Oh my god, what big say, more money, more problems?
He was not playing. But but it's not money motivated.
It's more so like, you know, how can I add value?
Like how can I help that shit.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
Really matters to me, like, you know what, I many
friends out sat down that was getting real money. They
didn't know nothing about real estate. Where I put them
in the game, you know. And they called me and
be like you go through my phone right now. Man,
I so love you for showing me about generational wealth. Man,
I sold man. This book you gave me was ah Man,
not my book either. Like, if I'm reading a good book,
I'm gonna get it to my hownies, like check this
out because I know they on that path. Right. So

(48:55):
it's just like I just want to you know, I
just want to inspire. I just want to help. I
just want know be there because there beyondest with you.
Nobody wanted there for me. Keep it a buck I
had brought my head.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
But it's a miracle that you navigated.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
Talk about it. And I'm not I'm not doing any complaining.
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
You've got a good life.

Speaker 3 (49:16):
Yeah, I'm not. I'm not mad.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
I got you got the roads, the marriage, you got
the do it.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
All right for yourself. Oh you're so good. It's so inspiring, yo.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
You know what's so crazy in the book. My life
is way more. It's daintier. My life is way daintier.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
Than your life.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
Jeez.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
I came up with some geez and I also came
up from some dysfunction and alcoholism and drug abuse and
you know, roaches in my grandmother's apartment and had to
put the light on that brunning out the toaster. The
same thing right that, I know what that is is
I had that you have to bang on the wall
wake them up so they come out.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
So you know what's not.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
Grad from the things there's there's a lot of that also,
the ups and downs, and so I think, you know,
when I think about that, it's just so crazy. You
never know who you connect with doesn't even have to
be the the core audience or the core person that
people would assume that your story would connect with. When
you put something out like this in the world, it's
like you just never know where it lands or how

(50:23):
it connects to who wore well this guy.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
Right here, Mike.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
But that's what I'm saying connected, That's what I was
saying about it, you know what I mean, That's what
I was saying about thinking grow rich like it has
nothing to do with me. And somebody gave me that
book and it was it was life changing, right, So
you know, even yourself is just like what you're doing
on your new platform. You know, you just never know
who you're helping out there. You never know who's getting

(50:48):
this information and it's changing their lives or their perspective
the way they look at things. Because I'm the same way,
Like I got people that I'm fans of that I
go online and I watch the stuff and I'm like,
oh wow, and it changes my life and it allows
me to lead better, right and allows me to be
a better version of myself. And I just think that,
like that's that's what it's about. So what you're doing

(51:10):
here is wonderful, right, And like I said, it's like
even for all us in the culture, like you know,
you always give us a safe space to you know,
kind of you know, unwind it a little bit and
being a little transparent, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
Because I believe in that.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
I do.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
I believe in it.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
And it's like I told you this earlier, Like it
took me a while to the same way you.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
Made have fucked up your leadership at certain points.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
I think maybe even me, even younger me on the radio,
I might have got caught up.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
Is something.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Probably if grown me would handle things differently because but
my intention is the same as yours. It's right to
be truthful, to be inspiring, to uplift, to serve, to
give back. I call those things I think the best
versions of ourselves.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
So is that so?

Speaker 3 (51:50):
I appreciate you, especially.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
You who like you.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
Know you don't come from always telling it.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
So I love when you tell it. It's been interest
in this whole. Look, they're gonna get in your business now.
It's like, oh man, it's so good.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
You're doing great. All right, where's my real life questions?

Speaker 3 (52:09):
I want to know what he talks about with Robert Green,
because people don't get to have conversations with what is.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
When you talk to a guy like Robert Green?

Speaker 3 (52:17):
What is the what is the jewel that he drops to?

Speaker 2 (52:20):
Just give me some of those jewels so we could
pass them to the people.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
We talked about a lot of things, but the thing
that stuck out of me the most. He's like, but
what's going on in your life right now? You're most
concerned about it? I said, you know what? I connect
them with my son. And he said, when you talk
to him, how do you talk to him? And I
told him, and he said, okay, he said, next time
you talk to him like that, put yourself in his
shoes and think about how he's feeling. And I tried

(52:44):
it and it worked. Wow. And it's like he has
no nothing to do with my walk of life. And
you know, we talked about the art of seduction, by
the way, so you know that goes spicy. By the way,
just tell me how you keep him engaged.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Wow. But drop one of those jewels for the fellas, please.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
No.

Speaker 3 (53:02):
He was just saying that, you know, when if you
if your wife is ever you know, like you know,
upset or whatever, did like not match your energy to
always stay calm, make her laugh and we's out of
the situation like that, and she will look at you
in a totally different light because when she was in
a position where she was ready to go in you know,

(53:24):
not to say that it has all the time that
you you changed her mood by you being charming and
you being you And I'm like, yo, that should work.
It works.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
That's actually really good. I've never heard that.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
I mean, come on, come on, really okay, cool, let's
go up. You know what I mean is that? But
but he taught me about the artist. Not everybody could
pull that off. You could pull that off pretty charming, though,
ye want I'm a legal so you know there's that.
But that's but there's great. That's great information because you know,
you know, you know a lot of times we try
to match energy. You're not supposed to match energy, right,

(53:59):
You're supposed to change the mood, like change the whole situation.
And going back to what he said by my son,
it's just like I have to think about that because
I've been I've been his age before, right outside down
and talking to my dad. You know, I don't hear
everything you got to say. I don't want nobody like
chastise me and tell me what I'm not good at,
so I have to put myself in that position. Was
probably some of the dopest advice he told me. And

(54:19):
even like just about life. It's just about taking everything,
taking everything slow right, not trying to like do too
much at one time. And he told me something crazy too,
and I was onto something before this new thing. He
was like, you should talk less, and I was like,
you know what, I was there. They tricked me. I
was good at that. Going to interviews, I'm like, answer

(54:42):
all these questions. I'm saying all these answers. He's like,
you know, you should talk less. I was like, I
was doing that at first. You know what, go back
to that you're doing in some seasons. Yeah, but he
was saying that when you talk less, you you you
come across more powerful, right, you come across uh people
remember what you say, and when you speak, you should

(55:02):
say things that matter, like you just shouldn't speak to speak,
which I thought was very interesting, But just sitting.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
Down with it, I don't think you're doing that now.
I think you're speaking with something that.

Speaker 3 (55:12):
He also told me about being transparent as well, and
he got a new book dropping as well. I think
the re launch of the forty eight pounds, which is
like listen, I'm gonna be honest with you, Like he's
a g Like we sat down, it was like the Godfather,
He's it was just you know what I'm saying. I
think he had the salmon and we just sat up

(55:35):
there and we just chopped it up and it was like.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
He probably sees the leader in you, and it's probably
his way of the same way you want to put
back into people, it's probably his way is putting into you.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
So that the then you could.

Speaker 3 (55:45):
Put John Maxwell's another one though, like he's like.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
What are those jewels? Give me something?

Speaker 3 (55:50):
It's like, man, John is We're gonna need a whole
other episode for that.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
Okay, give me the top one or two.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
I mean, he was the one that told me about
the seven questions. He's like, Yo, if I somebody you
really like, your mentor somebody you believe in, just doing
the same thing you're doing and invite them to lunch
or dinner, tell them you're paying for it. And you
just got seven questions, you want to ask them and
have them together having wrote written out and it has
never failed me yet.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
Who have you done it with?

Speaker 1 (56:16):
You?

Speaker 3 (56:16):
Name it Steve Harvey, t D Jake's.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Jay Z.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
But I already was doing that. I didn't have seven
because you probably thought it was a little crazy, but
just any respect and it and not just even people
that you know of, and the culture is that there's
successful in that round. It's business people, CEOs. You know
what I'm saying. Questions. Yeah, you just you get seven questions,
you know, and you just.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Do you tell them I'm going to ask you seven
questions or you just have that.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
You're kind of like, you know, I just want to
kind of pick your brain and then you sit down,
but like, these are things that you really want, Like
you're not just going to acting seven random questions, things
that you really want to know, right, and you wanted
to want to understand and this knowledge you're not going
to get from anybody else. When I talk to my
you know, my friends who do very well for themselves,
like you know, they are being as but that's not

(57:05):
the point. It's like I'm asking the questions that you're
running too.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
I'm going to steal this from you.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
Yes, go ahead. You asked the questions that you might
run into as you continue to be successful, right, because
you got to know, like you're not knowing you know
what of tax breaks you can get. You know you're
getting this.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
But you're doing it. All these questions are there.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
You're heading into relationships with intention now, so you're like
and think about.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
That's the word. I'm looking for everything. And that's another
thing Robert Green talked to me about. It is like
every time you sit down with somebody, every time you
have a conversation with somebody, every time you go to
an event, know what your intention is. Don't just go
to be there, and you know, rub Shoulders, like, know
what your intention is. You're having a conversation with somebody,
you know, you're having a meeting. The first thing says, okay,

(57:53):
you know, well my intention for this meeting is.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
That's so good. We waste so much time.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
And you think about, like we've been business a long time.
We have access to these incredible people and we could
waste it.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
But like, hey man, what's up.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
You're good, but we wasted with no intention just small talk,
which okay is fine sometimes, but and it's not just us.
Even if you're a kid in school, there's definitely a
dope ass teacher in your school that you have access to,
or somebody on the job who just knows more than you.
But it's people in our lives that if you use

(58:24):
that that that.

Speaker 3 (58:27):
Skill set up, you go sit down and talk to
somebody like and just say, you know, like Deon Sanders,
which is you know, Deon is a dope individual. Right.
You don't want to just go sit down with Deon
just hang out.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
You don't want to ask him what you have for lunch.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
You gotta have attention, you know when you talk, because
this time is like anybody else's time is valuable.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
What kind of questions do you ask, like, give me one.

Speaker 3 (58:47):
With about life, like you know, just where his piece
is at, you know, mater, Like how Dion live? Like
he's got his house, he on his got his boats,
he fished, you do all these things. It's just like
but just think about it. If you look at his
career on what he's doing, he's pawing into the youth.
He's taking all the things he learned and he's pouring
into the youth. And he's somebody that they respect and

(59:09):
they've seen do what he's done, right, and they still
have respect for him. Think about how hard that is
for people to still have respect for you at this
point after you've played and you've retired your jersey, you
did all these things, but they still respect him because
he's still pouring into them, right, and that's how he's
being fulfilled. And if you look at it, he looks
younger than a lot of guys. So then what is

(59:30):
the question, Well, Dion, why Dione about this like regular life?
Like real life? Like yo, man, you know what you're
doing these days like on some on some peace stuff.
And he tells me all the time he's fished. Why
don't you come out and fish? Actually I got to
go out and fish with him, and that's probably what
I'm going to really dig in. But he told me
to really sting. You know, when I when I first
started talking to He's like, yo, Jesz, I like you,
but I got to really get to know you. You know,

(59:52):
he said that when you asked one of those questions
I know, when when we first started kicking it, and
he's like, I like you, but I got to really
get to know you. That that that taught me about it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
I kind of love that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
Yeah, for sure, I feel like I need to tell
people that because you allowing them in your space, right
and and if you're gonna give them game and and
some type of value, you got to make sure that
they're they're they're worth it. You know. You can't just
have people coming in your space and you giving them
all this intel and insight and resources and then you
know they're not who they say they are. You know,

(01:00:25):
you turn them onto your people and then they go
do something crazy that's burning your resources, you know what
I'm saying. So I respect that. I'm like that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
So in real life, what are you most proud of
about yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
One I'm most proud of bout myself. I would say
the fact that I never gave up when I could
have so many times I just refused to. And every
day I strive to just be better, you know, no
matter what's going on around me. But I've seen so

(01:01:00):
many people just quit, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
And in real life, what do you pray for most?

Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
Peace? My family's good, that the people that I love
are good, and then that we're all a healthy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
Who was the first person to believe in you?

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
Me?

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
From where? Like how they information?

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
I just knew I ain't had no choice. You gotta
do this. You did everything else, Like why not? No
matter what, you gotta do it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
Bro I usually start the interviews with this, and I
didn't do it, but I feel like, no, I want to.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
I want to end it with that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
It's like right now in your life, like today, how
happy are you on a scale of one to ten?

Speaker 4 (01:01:55):
It's a good question, I'll say at nine? Really yeah,
mm hmm, I don't see nine.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
Tenhing's ever? Ten?

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
Ever? Have you ever been in ten in your life? Never?

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
I've never been a nine of my life, even for
a time you asked me. It's a third motivation. I've
probably been in one and a half.

Speaker 4 (01:02:14):
Really yeah, I would say nine. Yeah, based on what
just based on life experiences, people, conversations, the small things.
I love food, I love go sit down and have
a good meal. I got hobbies now, I never had

(01:02:36):
hobbies before off in boxing, you know. I mean, you know,
I got hobbies like journaling, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:02:43):
Yeah that you know what I'm saying. It shows you
look your eyes are white, and that was the vision.
But that's the thing. It's just like, you know, making
time for yourself and like doing the things that you
love to do. I love music. So if I've been
time like and just like sit down listen to like
music that I came up into my era, that really

(01:03:04):
makes me like happy, you know what I'm saying. And
they and they said, you know, if you ever get
into a a a downward spiral, just do the things
that you enjoyed as a kid, you know what I'm saying.
And and that's what I do when you're in a
down spiral. Yeah, like do the things that you enjoyed
to do as a kid that makes you happy, you know,
cause that's the thing you gotta do you gotta take
care of your star player. M. You gotta keep yourself

(01:03:26):
happy before you can make anybody else happy. And and
and I think the biggest thing if you're asking, is
self love. I think in in these last few years,
I really loved learned to love myself.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
MM.

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
You know what I'm saying. I really a r cause
it was a time I wasn't rocking with homie, you
know what I'm saying. And I just really just learn
how to love myself and just to understand like, no
matter what you know, i'm'a be okay, M. And that
you know like I'm I my intentions are good, right.
And and when I learned how to love myself, like
everything changed around me. Like that's when I was able

(01:03:59):
to start chipping that wall down because I no longer
needed it so good.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
And then I have to ask you this before you go,
because you haven't gotten there yet. But you say you're
gonna leave it all on the table before you leave.
What does a ten look like? What is it gonna take?

Speaker 3 (01:04:17):
I think that there. I think that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Does the ten happen here?

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
No, I don't think the ten happens. I think the
ten happens when when when it's all sad and done
and you've done everything that you set out to do,
because I will always leave that one so that I
got still something to work for, you know what I'm saying.
And I'm a firm believer. When things get too good,
I get concerned is going fall out? Bottom is gonna
fall out at some point. And I don't think I've

(01:04:43):
ever been to ten. But I'm enjoying nine. I'm I'm living,
I'm learning, I'm loving, and it's just like, you know,
it's a totally different wake up. You know, it's the
time that I woke up and I didn't want to
wake up. You know what I'm saying. I was like,
I can't wait. You know what I'm saying. I was
supposed to be up here at uh four thirty this morning.

(01:05:03):
I think I was up here at two forty five.
I was excited, you know what I'm saying about the day.
I got things to do.

Speaker 4 (01:05:08):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:05:09):
I'm like, my mind, I'm going through it. But at
least I know I was up like three o'clock. But
my point of case is you're happy, yeah, And I
think you know, I thank God every day at nine
is just fine with me. Even if it was an eight,
I'll take it, you know what I'm saying. But the nine,
it's just fine.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
That's pretty great. Nine is yeah, pretty great.

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
And if today is the last day, what do you
do on the last day?

Speaker 3 (01:05:33):
That's just gonna ask me what I was gonna eat.
I'm an chill with my family, eat pop pee's. It's
a wrap. You go kick it. We have a good time,
and then you know, probably drinking, you know, eat some
pop pe'es, drinking expensive bottle of wine. You know what
I'm saying. You know, maybe have some uh some nod.
I don't know, like, but it's gonna keep it simple,

(01:05:54):
you know what I'm saying. And you know, gonna reminisce
and it's a wrap.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
And head on your way to your tent.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):
Yeah, it's gonna be all good.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
We're proud of man.

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
Hopefully you know, hopefully somebody grated Torch and keep this
going for us. And I appreciate your time. I appreciate
your platform, and it's everything you do.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
I love your growth as well, because I remember, I
remember Angie Martinez, what you mean?

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
What you mean?

Speaker 3 (01:06:19):
I remember was always good no, no, not that you
was anything bad. But when you was young, you was
young too.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
We were all young. We were trying our best, but
we were young growing up.

Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
Now you're playing golf and ship. It's beautiful as now.
I love it. I love it too for sure. Thank you,
Thank you so much. Young Jesus, No, just Jesuz. Grown Jeszy,
grow happy at a level nine geze every