April 22, 2025 • 67 mins
This week your BFF's dive into a conversation about faith, spirituality, the easter bunny (we know we late) and yarmulkes. Grab you a cup of the blood of Christ before Joho drinks it all!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Black Fat Fem Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
and Doctor John Paul LLC. Hey everyone, welcome to another
episode of the BLACKFEFTFM podcast, where all the intersections of
identity are celebrated. I am one of your hosts, John
also known as doctor John Paul. And while Clarissa might
have been trying to explain it all, she didn't explain
(00:21):
none of this shit, like how at my rightful age
of thirty nine, my body was gonna turn on me
basically tell me what I can and can't do? Did
I tell you? I almost look like I've had to. I've
literally had to get my life together because, you know,
I've mentioned to y'all in earlier episodes that mother has,
you know, type two diabetes, and you know, even I've
(00:43):
been dealing with going back and forth to the doctor
trying to find the right medications and things. And it's just,
you know, as you get older, you don't recognize how
serious your health is until your health is serious. So
a bit has been having to take care of herself
and eat bran having to you know, I can't have
soda the way I want to, and it's just, you know,
(01:04):
I just all of this stuff that's happened. Like I
just at my big age. I just really want to
take a nap. I just really want to go take
a nap. You know, nobody told me that I would
be this age paying sixteen dollars for fucking eggs. It's
just it's just a lot to be an adult nowadays.
But here we are. We were just talking about that
in our pre show. Just a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Of emotionally financially, sir, physically.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
And I paid my taxes? Did you do your taxes?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I did you know?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
I did?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Okay, wait that did you?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Did you?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (01:38):
You know?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
We didn't do the person. We didn't know. We didn't.
Next year we're going to do the person. This year
we were too close because of just our schedules didn't
allow us to get out there. Oh I know. She
does tell me every year that she does the damn thing.
I'm gonna take your word for it because I was before.
Next year, I will definitely, okay, okay, next year, we
(02:02):
will definitely be there with her making sure that we
get our coins right. But anyway, how are you mama?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Oh my god, it's been a fucking week.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
It's only Wednesday. It's been a week. Girl fam it
is your AKA, your.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Girl Joho, your fave podcaster's faith podcaster. Okay, I gotta
say this probably is our first year where I probably
experienced Coachella fomo because some of these acts looked amazing,
like really good. I was actually guy John shaking the
head like no, no no, but well, let me tell you
Couchell five was on the Poppin' I watched her last yeak.
(02:41):
I was everything Gaga, Gaga, Wow, Missy Wow, Megan bringing
out Queen Latifa and Sierra in Victoria Monette.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
But let me just tell you.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Meg and Les Dallly in between Manadians together the moment,
I was like, I could be straight. I could be
straight because they were can because they were who who
also is my jim So? I love that song too?
Just so good season coming out, I screamed. Charlie XCX's
set was amazing. I heard surprisingly Okay, DJ Mustard, I
(03:14):
knew he'd be good, but did J Mustard set. I
was hype the entire time because you don't real.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
It was better than what you anticipated.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
You don't realize how many bops I will save with
my smamp champan because it was it was Twye, I
didn't watch.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I watched Tea Pains this next weekend.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, so I will say that I will. I will
wait till the end of the show to talk about
T Pain set because that's the only set that I
stayed for. And I we literally we finished what we
were doing right before he went on, so we ran
over to go catch it. And I literally like kind
of the same thing. We were all looking at each other,
Like the folks that I was there with, we were
all looking at each other, like you don't realize how
(03:55):
talented and how verse someone's catalog is until they do
a festival or they see their career space.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Bitch, yeah, I'll say shout to you, which because I
had several people message being like is John not Coche?
And I was like, yeah, girl panel, and it was
it was like, bitch, wait, she's really like, oh, she's official.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
I said, she is official.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
And then and then and then they're trying to guess
opts and be like why aren't you there?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I was like, it wasn't for the podcast go come Down.
I was like, y'all trying to us out so badly.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
She was podcast. I wasn't there for the podcast come down?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Calm down. But I was like, girls living her best life,
and I support her for it, y'all.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Wants to be absolutely calm down, y'all, and it's never
gonna happen. It's never gonna happen. I just want to
say that to her. I know the listeners know this,
but to the people who hate listen, there will never
be a chance. Like if there's a chance for me
to invite Jojo, I'm inviting Joho. Like, yeah, if I'm
doing something and it does not include Joho, it's nine
times out of ten for work period. All right, y'all. Well,
(04:58):
with that being said, now that we have talked enough
about Coachella, and we're going to probably talk more about
it in the show later, we're gonna go ahead and
jump into our skill Here segment this week, And what
I wanted to ask you is, you know, today's episode,
we're going to go down to the pull pit in
order to give praise to pranchant, say Tisha Campbell. Before
(05:19):
we do, I wanted to ask you. I wanted to
ask you in this segment, how in these uncertain times
are you keeping the faith? This is a question I
get asked a lot, and I was like, this is
a really good question to go along with what we're
actually talking about this week, and so I wanted to
ask you, like, how are you maintaining and managing, you know,
(05:40):
the idea of tomorrow even with all this woes, for
you to be able to have a better today. I
know you go first, and then I'll talk about mine,
because I feel like I've been talking a lot.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I love this question. Definitely, music helps me.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
There's certain songs listen to what I'm feeling, like the
world world around Me song The Party. I definitely when
I first saw this, I was my first I was
like yeah, yeah, I was like, yeah, god you have
the verbe Oh wow wow Burns House. Now I'm just
like that's something.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
But this this is a song River by Liam Thomas.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I don't know who that is.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Like gives like spiritual vibes, such a beautiful song.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Oh I do know that.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
I think I've heard the track, but true the River, No, no, no,
not now that's the River.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I thought that's the one his song as it's his
song as more slow. It's very very giving, very hymns vibe,
but it's very like how I how you say, like
it's just it's like a real beef song. It's like
sixthing I do try to relax. I often play this
too shot pass, but India reas just such a beautiful
(06:59):
like song about knowing that things right, things right now
are hard and things will get.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
I'll get through.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Count count on me for wanting to exhale with Winnie
who send and CC pens I think ever her name,
You're just like a cc win not CC penistin no,
not no, I said, CC Penance, I know that pstant.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
Like finally I know not but I meant cz my
bad Ez.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
They said you have a Dan girl on your black guard,
my bad cc so music music hows you get the faith.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
And then also knowing like I just got.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I just got, like like like Lego, that God is
a really is a really little thing for me, like Lego,
like God, like I have control over a very finite math.
Things I need to let go of the things are
not my control, and I struggle with it all the
time for sure, But I definitely like realize more and
more now like Lego let a girl, I don't need
to know everything. I can just like sit here and
(08:01):
be okay with it. Even if it's all like it's
all worries over here, sister, really is. But I know
it's gonna be okay because I know my God got me.
To my God, this has got me for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah about you, that's real, that's real. I love that
you say that, because I think that's kind of where
people have been asking me how I'm so calm, And
I think that that's where my heart has really been
in the last couple of months of like I can't
control none of this shit, Like I can't I can
spend all my days and every day worrying about tomorrow
and what what, what's what's coming my way? Or I
(08:33):
can pour my energy and saying Okay, today is today,
and I'm doing what I can today to be happy today,
and then tomorrow I will worry about what comes my way.
And I think that's really where where I've been. But
even on top of that, you know, I've been really
thinking about this idea too, of like talking to my
ancestors and my trancestors. You know, I pray a lot
these these days. I've been praying a lot for clarity
(08:54):
and really just saying, like, please put me in the
right spaces, put me around the right people, you know,
put me in a place where I'm not setting myself
up for failure because of my own wants, and and
then and not saying that they can see the future,
and if they can, great, right, but I think just
asking for my own clarity as an imperfect human. And
(09:15):
then you know, sometimes, you know, something I've been thinking
a lot about in this moment is like being rooted
in spirituality and reminding myself that spirituality doesn't always have
to look like a Bible and holy water right church
and spirituality for me can be found on my peloton.
Church can be found in a bakery. Once my my
A one C level is back, you know, in order, right,
(09:38):
you know, the Lord has said where there's three or
more gathered, right, you're in his name. And so you know,
if the girls want to go down to the dunkin
Donut on a Saturday night, like, you know, what are
we doing? How are we getting together to phrase God? Right?
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Like?
Speaker 1 (09:54):
That's really what what I've been thinking a lot about
is this notion of like it doesn't have to look like, oh,
I'm going to church Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday for me
to be able to find God it can be very
much in this notion of like we find God here
every time we cut on a mic, even though the
internet is terrible today.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Right like.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
We're still We're still here, you know, preaching to one
another and uplifting one another. And I think that's the
thing that I have to constantly keep telling myself is
that spirituality is not just you know, LinkedIn or locked
into religion. So that's how I been keeping my faith.
These people ain't going I'm gonna say this. These people
are not gonna scare me and to stress to a
(10:35):
heart attack, to any like our ancestors have lived or worse.
I'm not. I'm not worth this.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I was gonna say, like like why why I says
to anybody like when something when something like stressful happens,
just laugh, like like like tally make yourself laugh, like
you're like this ship is so crazy, But like I can't.
I'm a laugh one because like it takes an edge off.
But also like y'all I have, I like I'm too
(11:04):
worried about my heart. I'm not trying. I'm not what
y'all doing does not concern me, right, Like I'm too
I'm too worried about like making sure my heart's in
my heart's and in good health and it is, and
like that's more important to me than like the bullshit
that y'all y'all trying to do that's not for me.
And so I feel like, you know, like when when
when people like you, I think great to someone's Like,
(11:25):
so I asks you, how how are you so calm? Girl?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Like?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Why? Because me being not calm will not If I'm
not calm, it won't help me.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
It won't help me.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
More like, if I approach it from a place of
like anxiety or stress or franticness, I won't get done
and I won't be helpful for myself or others. So like, I, god,
keep it calm and be like, no, girl, like that
that's some bullshit. Let me just approach it because like
because meaning activating will actually not solve will not solve
a problem, a problem I need, like I need to.
(11:56):
I need to remain calm to be myself. I can say, no,
I can work this.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, that's the real tea. And I think that's the
thing I've been really thinking a lot about these days,
is like I have so many like you've said, You've
you've texted me this like, I have a lot of
pans on the fire, and so the moment that I
lose focus on those pans, then now everything isn't disarray.
So I wake up every day being like, let me
just focus on the things I need to focus on.
(12:22):
So I can't worry. I can't worry about nothing that
that don't concern Doctor John Paul, LLC. I can't worry
about nothing that doesn't concern my wellness, my household, my life,
my family because all of that stuff out there, I'm
not going to allow that to be the thing to
take me down. Period. So her yeah, all right, y'all. Well,
(12:45):
with that being said, we have to go down to
Bevmo to get more communion wine because Jojo drank it
all but wet me. But we will be back with
the category in section more in a second.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
And welcome to black fam. So this time we're going
to get into something that we have mentioned a few
months ago out to receiving a listener letter. We touched
on it in a very very very early on in
our show, like episode six or seven, but we want
to put a little spin on it. So I talk
about a lot on the show about my Josha Danady
on you on here, John's mentioned about the reform passage
(13:38):
of his witness. We never get into the meat of
how we define spirituality and faith around these parts. We
were on a podcast, so I'll go about it as
well too, but we don't do it as much on
our show. Mainly how we've been able to hold on
to spirituality in faith even the moments that people have
tried to use it against us. Yeah, So you know,
(13:59):
I want to first ask you, John, what's your definition
of spirituality if you have one, and how do you
maintain Now how does it move you today?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Well, one, this is going to be a real good
key key because I, as you know, I love talking
anything and everything religion, spirituality. It's something that I don't
think a lot of people know about me. I almost
like when I was in college, I almost majored in
religious studies because of the experience that I am religion
(14:29):
theology right, and and what initially made me not was
I just I didn't really feel a calling to it
per se, so I just kind of left it alone.
But what I will say is that I think that
you know, I think for me, spirituality and religion are
are oftentimes confused because people conflate that you have to
(14:51):
be religious in order to be spiritual, and like I
said at the top of the show, like I don't
I don't necessarily believe that because I'll say this, you
can go to a church, right and you can hear
someone talk for hours and not have a spiritual experience.
It's just them preaching right for an hour and a half,
and you're like, why why did I come here? Like
(15:13):
what's the point of this? Whereas you can go to like,
for instance, with me, when I went to Renaissance, and
I know that people will probably say like, oh, John,
you're being no same, but it's like I went to
the Renaissance experience twice and each time there for me
was a spiritual experience because I felt like I was
in a room full of people who saw me and
understood me and comprehended me. And music, you know, Beyonce's
(15:34):
music was motivating me and uplifting me in a way. Right.
So I think that that for me is how I've
been able to kind of like definelus redefine the notion
of spirituality versus religion, because I think in a lot
of ways religion is very harmful to a lot of people,
and I don't want to paint it all is terrible, right.
(15:55):
Something I was thinking about as we were, you know,
putting the thought together for this same episode, I was saying,
religion works for who it works for, right, And what
I mean by that is, if you're in a space
that says you're queer and we accept you and we
love you, okay, that works for you. But if you're
in a space that says we follow the Bible this
way and we don't. So it's all about how religion
(16:18):
is all about interpretation, and I think for me, I've
removed myself from that, and I've said spirituality is more
about the way I feel about the ways I feel uplifted,
the ways that I feel motivated, the ways that I
feel encouraged.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
So you know, I I just have like so many,
so many thoughts around this. I know we'll discuss a
bit later, but like I'm always fascinated by the difference
between religion spirituality for people, because religion is used as
a tool for harm, that spirituality can be as well too,
(16:55):
and so you know, and like it's like people can
eat None of these things are actually here bad, they
are just neutral, but people use them for bad or
for good. I think a lot of people who use
who use like spiritually using spiritualism as a way of
like like to like spiritually bypass something right, or people.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Who usually who lose, who use religion for bad.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
I think for me, spirituality has meant different things over
the course of my life. Right now definitely means just
having a belief in connection to something above me. Yeah,
one thing I think a lot about when I gave
punt of our tour at my hot Mitzvah, there's a
line where I said, miracles happen, whether I believe them
(17:35):
or not, whether I can explain, whether whether I.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Can explain them or not.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Miracles exist, and like the fact that I'm here right
or ever everyone in that moment and time in that
in that experience with me, like it was a miracle
that we were all there together. And so I choose
to believe in miracles, right like my my spirituality leads
me to choose and to believe in miracles. My speciality
leads me to choose to believe in the higher power
that's above me, or powers that be above me. I think,
(18:03):
I think to me like I think, I maintain it
I think, because like I just like I just know
there are things like, for I met somebody recently who
like I have I have a little.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Connection with.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
And like, and I had met someone else in their
life before independent of them, and and then it's like
seeing them was like, oh, like it must be like
Kismet that we like met in this work in this way, right,
And that's what the foul sure, I think, right like,
(18:41):
I think that it was Kismet that you and I
were at the same time, right, Like, there's so there's
like truly an infinite number of scenarios that could have
happened that would have led to us not being here,
but we got to exist in the scenario where we
got to be here together. And so to me, right like,
my spirituality makes me believe that miracles up, whether I
(19:02):
whether I whether I think they whether I think they
think that you or not. So I think so I
think I maintain my spirituality. But also being like if
I like, I can choose not to, I can choose
to not believe it, but doesn't deny its existence. So
I really believe it exists.
Speaker 6 (19:16):
Come on, I believe in Merca and baby if for
those of you who don't know what that is.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
That's Whitney Houston. I believe in you and Me from
the Preacher's Wife soundtrack.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yes come on now, come on, yeh, come on source material.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yes, yes, yes, definitely that. I love that you talked about.
And it's funny because even when I was putting this together,
I didn't even really get into this notion of like
what do you believe in terms of like where do
we go after this? Or miracles and blah blah blah.
So it's really cool that you mentioned that because I
think that that's also a part of spirituality, right, Like
I truly have been in moments in my life where
I've looked around and I've said, this can't be anything
(19:59):
but God, right, or this can't be anything but the universe,
or this can't be anything but you know what I
like to say, I call them my threes, right, my angels,
And you know, those are the folks that I've lost
over my life who I know are still watching and
directing me and helping me navigate this this life that
we have now, right. And So I love that you
(20:20):
mentioned that because I think that that opens up kind
of a door for people who are struggling, and I
feel like that's the thing I also wanted to say,
like in this moment, for those who are listening, if
you are struggling with your religion, or you're struggling with
the notion of trying to find spirituality in a world
where religion has damaged you or harmed you, right, like
we are opening our mailbox to you to say, like,
(20:44):
send us your thoughts, like please engage in this conversation
with us, because I feel like both of us have
such a good handle on who we are when it
comes to our spirituality and our religion. You know, how
we see the world around how we see that concept, right,
I feel like we're in a good place to be
able to be able to kind of help you get
(21:05):
to a good place around it. And I want to
make sure that folks who are listening know that we're
happy to help in that regard. So I did want
to ask you, Joeho And I know that it feels
like I'm probably interviewing you. I'm I feel like this episode,
I'm interviewing you more because I feel like you have
more of a stronger hold on your spirituality than I do.
I believe in it, but it's not my it doesn't
guide my path per se. Whereas for you, I feel like,
(21:27):
because you're and you have a very strong ties to
your jewish Ness, per se, I feel like these questions,
you know, kind of land a little bit more than
they stick. So I hate to keep asking you questions.
But I know last week I text you and I
was like, bitch, why don't you wear a Yama cut?
(21:49):
Because I was in New York and I kept seeing
people with the Yama cut, and I just was like,
why an't I seen my sister the Yama cut? So
I found that really interest sting, and I think the
response you gave me via text was really interesting, and
I thought it'd be really good for you to bring
to the pod. So I didn't want to ask you,
like why why I know yamaka?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Yeah, so let me tell you. So that was verbat
what John texted me.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
John, literally, I mind my business on a random night
and all and all like is bitch, why don't you
why don't you wear yamaka? As I said, what what
do you mean? Yeah? And so like it's just you know,
this relationship John and I have. John was just like, bitch,
were Yama? I was like let me tell you why.
But first, so first first of me say, let me
(22:38):
say like like I'll be believe of folks like I
am a spiritual bitch. I think people see me like,
oh that like this bitch is this bitch is divine
some way, But like I wasn't like I wasn't like
this like I like I used to dai as an atheist,
I used to as like I don't believe in God
or something I think I'm I think like you like
(23:00):
a denial of myself. I alwaysknew I felt conected to
something higher than me. But and so like like I
refused to like say it was God I feel because
I thought religion was such a vehicle of harm for
a long time. And my Jewishness, so I can say
part of that too, like I would would didn't practice
Judaism because I was like an ism it still sounds
like an ism.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
And but like my.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Coming by coming into my Jewishness, like was a series
of divine timings like when I first joined my when
my I would say, like I I always felt connected
to something higher than me. I always felt like a
connection to something spiritual. I just didn't have language for it.
After my dad passed. I really I feel like I
(23:44):
dived into something that was that like I find I
like dive into what the connection actually meant for me.
And right like divine timing was like a month after
my month after my dad passed, as I get this
dream job in this Jewish place that like no about
Jews of color and knows about like Jewish mysticism and
like we we are like we had they just had
(24:05):
this rabbi who was director of Jewish engagement for two years,
and so like for two years, I get to learn
from her like this like radical, radically feminist Jewish rabbi,
which I will say like feminists and rabbis did not
always mix, and women rabbis did not did not always happen.
It's one in the past, like twenty thirty years of
that that she happened in the history of of like
(24:26):
of like rabbinicalhood, you know. So my education for my
spirituality in that way Jewishly was also like immensely radicle,
which I think was really helpful for me. Yeah, and
so I just say that they have a context like
who I am for folks to like because I am
spiritual and people feel it and see it within me,
but something that I really had to like, work like,
work towards right verse versus versus like, And so my
(24:46):
entrance point got to be like get my interest point
got to be like, I got to choose spirituality in
my own way right versus you being raised in religion
and that and that right you don't have agency. I
had agency and what I chose to do, and that's
why it's been so special for me and why I
(25:06):
feel so so switch now about So the yamaka, so
I was about to say, is yeah, so Kipa is Hebrew,
Yamaica is Yiddish, both forms of languages used by Jewish people.
But he the Hebrews the more like Hebrews different Yiddish
or whatever. And so, first of all, people wear it
(25:31):
by it's a lot of a lot of the things.
People wear it now by their own level of observance,
like right like most most likely if you're writ in
New York, most people were seeing folks who were Orthodox.
So people have the whole the high level of observant observance,
and they wear it because some believe some believe that
it is halacha, which is like Jewish law. Some believe
(25:53):
it demonstrates a belief of someone watching above you. Right
that like like having the dome around on your head
is like the the connection point to to to the
divine and God's watching you, and so like having a
head covering helps keep you blessed. Essentially, I don't wear
it because I'm not religious in that sense. I will
(26:14):
say there was a movement in a Pacific denomination, the
reform movement to not work keep us or yamaca's at all,
but more more people have actually feen a lot more
meaning in it. Like now a lot of people who
are reformed wear it. And you know, I have a
friend who's I don't know what their nomination is, but
like but like like they're super queer, super into it
(26:37):
and like and they and they were as well too, right,
It's been sus pretty amazing to see like queer folks
where we're we're yamaka's. A lot of them are stablish now,
right not not a lot of them are stylish like
before they're just like a solid color other pattern. They're
knit their crochet like they're really cute, like they h
in your style, So you know, so and and now
and like now, before it was just people identify as
(26:59):
men wear them and now like all gingers wear them,
I don't wear it because it's not for me. I
don't believe I need to be with I don't believe
almbum I need to wear it to be divine embracing
or divine fearing and truthfully does not work with my hair.
Wearing that. Don't do not be having curls like this,
(27:20):
like they be having mostly flat hair, or they have curls,
but like the small curls and their hair are sure.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Or listen your words, not mine, but.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Like them with hair.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
A lot of people wearing it with hair like this, and
if someone does, you let me know where you know.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
That's the thing is Also it typically goes on.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Like this like back corner of your head, and then
she will fall right off my head. It will slip, girl.
And I have tried to do a pin with it, girl,
or like a little like a little bubby pin, but
she will just hang out the time my net, like
looking crazy. So that's just not that's it's it's not
for me.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
But it's not for me, not for me, not for me.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
I love, I love I love that, not for me, babe,
So I love this is a great response because it
sets up the following thought similar to what you shared,
this idea of what's for you and what's not for you?
And I think about this, you know, we we had
like in the midst of us trying to put this
episode together. One of the bigger things that it came
up was talking about this idea of how I initially
(28:24):
I had I have seen so I've seen this article,
but I know that you were the one who shared
it with me, and I was I was actually had
looked at it more like more intently for this conversation, right,
So there are people who like you, you know, who
like you, have chosen a religion and then had said
this is not for me anymore. I'm leaving. There are
people like me who have had a religion pushed on
to them and they said, yep, I'm out of here.
(28:45):
This isn't for me because this is this is too much.
And the article it's the Pew Research Center. For those
of you, we're actually gonna put the article in the
show notes. Uh, there was a number there was research
that shows that over twenty nine percent of Christians are
pretty much dipping out. And this happened between the pandemic,
and I think it was last year was when they
(29:07):
wrapped the actual research, this of the study, and so
there were folks who, specifically during the pandemic were like this.
I think a big part of it was how do
I say this because I don't want to get I
don't want to step on anyone's toes. But I also
don't want to put I don't want to I don't
want to make assumptions. This is what I believe. I
want to let me say that, this is what I believe.
(29:28):
I believe that so many people saw so much mess
happening during the pandemic, specifically around PPP loans and a
lot of churches taking out these loans, and a lot
of religious people doing some really messed up stuff during
the pandemic, and they said, I don't want to mind
myself with this. And then even you add to all
(29:50):
of the religious hatred and and how a lot of
quote unquote pro Christians and pro people they've been doing
a lot of stuff to like marginalize specifically queer and
trans people. And so I think people are starting to
wake up and say I don't want this anymore. I
gotta go. And it's not just in America. It's happening
all over the world, and so many they're now calling
(30:12):
them unaffiliated, right, you know, instead of saying I'm atheist,
or people just saying I'm unaffiliated, I don't want anything
to do with religion in general. And that's kind of
like me. I guess I can be called disaffiliated. And
many are just saying, you know that that simple piece
from above, I want nothing to do with this, And
so I just I thought that that was kind of
deep and I thought it was important to share because
(30:35):
I think the world has been so unkind to so
many people, and a lot of people are losing faith
in religion, and so in this research, we're seeing young
folks leave religion in droves because they're going, this is
not the type of person I want to be. And
I guess the question and the thought that I have
about is why and what about this study maybe piqued
(30:58):
your interest in wanting to include it in this conversation.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Yeah, So, I mean, so one I when I will say, like,
I just want to clarify, like I don't like, I
don't identify, I don't identify, I don't identify within the
Protestant Judaism I identify like my I think it's also
interesting hard because Jewishness for people, like it's like it
is cultural. Some argue ethnic, some argue race, it's a lot,
(31:24):
it's a lot of things. I my usage of it
is ethnic and cultural. You know, like like if I
if I do my twenty three and meters will show
up as I am this percentage of Astrinazi Jewish, and
this percentage of West African, and this percentage of like
of others and stuff. And so that's the only that's
like how I use it myself. And so I was
(31:45):
really clear of like like I don't go to temple,
I don't go to synagogic I do not find I
don't find my uh spirit. I find my spiritualism in
those spaces, right and so and so I think it's
so I like I said that, as I said a
best till why I was into this Sundy because also right,
as people folks know, I work in the Jewish community,
(32:05):
and while my work is actually based in race, ethnicity,
you know, focusing on Jews of color, Judaism is still
part of the job. And like you know, we work
with temples, we work with synagogues, we work with places
where like Judaism is part of their identity or the
religious affiliation is part of their identity. And we also
have seen right like we know people are leaving Judaism
(32:26):
or temple spaces, right or people leave temple spaces but
don't leave Judaism, like they just practice in their ways.
So it's interested in this because I'm like, oh, I
wonder because in some cases the work that I do
really is a microcoloism for like the rest of the world,
like the issues that happened in Jewish communities. I will say,
it's very very interesting way, like are sometimes like precursors
(32:48):
to what I'm seeing trend wise happening like in like
non Jewish spaces around me. Yeah, yeah, And so I
think I was just in that. You know, pewse Pews
like a I think p is a research that is
a research house that we often recite or fellow we've
done we did a in my job, we had done
we had done like analysis of their studies before too,
(33:10):
so like we trust their work. They have the probably
the most like the most like quantitative and quality of
data that we can use anyways, So I think I
was fascinated by that. I think that's also fascinated by, Like,
you know, it's there's a lot of discussion about christianitiy
in here, right, like Christianian and Buddhism being the two
biggest ones, the biggest losses from religious switching, right or
(33:33):
like disipiliation that.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
The fasting as well too.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
One because I'm like, oh, I would never like, I
don't think about Buddhism one as religion. I think of
it as as a philosophy. And I was like, oh,
I'm so curious to like what making people lead from Buddhism.
Also because like you don't see Buddhism in the world
is in America as harp you don't see as like
a harmful thing, then like you see Christianity, Bewill died,
(33:56):
and so I think I was also fascinated by that.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
So I think, you know, there's a lot of this
is why I was really.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Into that and knowing that like inversely, I have I
know more people like right, like this says more people
are quitting religion, but I know more people who are
finding spirituality yep. And so I was also fascinated about
like what's like what's the difference between them, you know,
because I also and as I said, I was like
hinting at earlier, like spirituality and religion are sometimes are
(34:25):
kind of to me like can be interchangeable, right, like
like spirituality, I think, like it's just hard.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
I think spirituality can be like the actual how I
say spirituality is like the.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
State of being in religion is like the practice. I
think sometimes it's how I see it, but I think
they can be the same thing for people. And so
but it's it's it's like it's like it's like, are
people leaving with religion or are they are they leaving
their churches? Right about a great a great point of
Like people left their churches because I saw the churches
like using using their religion to like for like for
(35:02):
like you know, quote unquote like immoral things or like
for self interest.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Right, and so.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
It's like and you and and the second people, that's
the thing is like people find people find spirituality in
a church, a place of religion, and then when that
church like does have been horrible, they then like distance
themselves from their religion or spirituality. But like you don't
you don't also have to do that, like you like
you could actually find it somewhere else, which is also,
which is also why I think, like it's hard for
(35:28):
me to say identify it as religious, but like I
also have never found home in a physical container for
that sexuality different mm hmm, yeah, And so I wonder
if I did that when I felt different. But I
also wonder, like if I was harmed by like my
place of worship, would that cause me to leave it?
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Right right?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Like you were harmed by your by by your place
and an idea of worship that was that was thrust
upon you, and so you left be because like that
is the mostly rational things.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
I had to go, mother had to go, And I
think that that's you know, I don't want to So
I was going to initially frame this as a question,
but I think we're getting close to time, and so
I was going to say, like, I think one of
the things that we that I did want to kind
of talk about and really thinking about this conversation and
why I feel like it's so important right now is
you know, one, obviously it's going to be but when
(36:24):
you all hear this, so this episode will come out
like like literally a couple of days after Easter. But
I think there's still people who are very much in
his mind that this is a very religious month, and
a lot of people have probably been thinking a lot
about their spirituality and their religions and things of that nature.
And so I think it is, you know, that was
what really kind of hit me right and wanting to
(36:46):
have this convo, was thinking about how everyone kind of
how just where a lot of my and a lot
of friends groups, in a lot of spaces, in a
lot of places, I'm finding more and more people saying
I'm trying to get right with my spirituality or my religion,
or my heart, or whatever the case may be, because
of the times that we're living in. And I think
that I can feel that there are a lot of
(37:07):
people who are who are having a very hard time
with it because they don't feel welcomed or they don't
feel as safe in these places and in these spaces
to try to find spirituality right. And so I think
I've been thinking a lot about like what advice we
would give for those who might feel attacked or unwelcomed
(37:29):
in a place right now where they're trying to find
religion or or hold on to their faith or all
of those different things. And I think for me, one
of the notes that I had made. I love your
point and I can't wait for you to share it.
But I was going to say, this has made me
think a lot about this idea of how I wish
(37:50):
I didn't have the trauma. Like I know my husband,
me and Jonathan talk about this a lot. He never
had religion pushed onto him ever, and so and he's
feel very much, you know, absorbed, like he doesn't want
anything to do with it. But I'm thinking, like, how
much easier it would be for me to feel connected
to whatever higher power if I didn't have the history
(38:11):
that I had of it so cruel to me and
so wanting to let people know, Like I guess my
advice or my thought around this notion of how how
do people find faith in this moment if they feel
like the places where they want to find faith are
not safe is recognizing that humans are cruel and that
humans will say really cruel things to you, but humans
(38:31):
are also not perfect, and so that gives me space
to allow people to make mistakes, but also to really
think about this notion too, of what do you need
to do to protect yourself if you are going into
these places trying to find spirituality and peace? Right giving
yourself the agency to say that if this doesn't feel
(38:52):
good to me as I'm trying to heal or I'm
trying to get better, that you have the right to
say I'm out of here, like I'm not. I'm not
held to this thing, right And if you want to
look to be Buddhists, if you want to be if
you want to look to heighten your Christianity or your
catholicnessness is whatever, Like I think we can all do that,
but I definitely think, you know, I really think we
(39:13):
need to operate from a place of worshiping and not
passion judgment on other people. And that is the advice
that I would give it. If you feel like you're
being judged while you're trying to find peace and solace
and heal, to reconsider, that's just really where my heart is.
What about you?
Speaker 3 (39:32):
I think that.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
It's all like, it's all just and it really it's
all just so hard. Like I too, wish I wish
you also had a better I wish you could have
had a strong I wish you could have. My wish
for you is that you could have built your relationship
to spirituality in your own way. Yeah, and not a
way that was thrust upon you and that you got
(39:58):
the actual agency to say I might this or don't
love this, right, And I hope I hope that like
like maybe like maybe one day you can as well too,
and that's okay and also tokay if you don't, but
that's also okay. Like I think, I think, like you've mentioned,
like you have your own relationship to to the divine
right or to God right, however you call it right,
you know, so you mentioned that before, and I think
(40:18):
that's the least powerful and special.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
I think it depends on how you how you call it,
because like sometimes.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
I I go between like sometimes I say God, sometimes
I say that says I say the Divine, So it
always is different for me, like who it is I'm
referring to speaking to I don't always know. And so
I think, like you know, for people who feel into welcome,
I think find pocket spirituality where you can.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
I think a lot about right.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
I can think thinking about bay Davis who says she's
going to like this trans church and how amazing that
is for her and she gets to practice, like you know,
she gets she gets to practice like like like Caribbean
influence religion I think that's so specially and so beautiful
and so like there our pockets where if someone is leave,
if you're like thinking of leaving your church, girl leave
(41:05):
like because one because if if the thoughts for you,
like if the thought is for you, follow the thought, girl,
leave but don't like but don't believe, but don't believe
that that can be the end. That that's the and
and another road for you. If you want more, you
can find it somewhere.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
I deserve.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
You and you you you just like you deserve more
right like like if you love like if you love God, right,
if you love God, if you love praising, if you
love throwing them hands up and catching a spear, girl, right,
if you have been like a love God, God loves me. Right,
then like you deserve to have that. Don't don't let
yourself not have that because this one church makes you
(41:50):
feel some type of way, like there are places for you.
And and if if it's not at the specific church,
if it's not right in a church building, there is
a group for you. Like the stuff is that you
do like you have to put in the work to
reach out to it, but it is there for you,
Like don't don't deny what makes you feel good.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
I think a lot. I think a lot.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
I think a lot about Trevell, right, that Trevell loves God,
Trevell so inspiring, and Trevell loves God for themselves, right,
they like, they love themselves from God. They love themselves.
They love themselves some praising, right, okay, hallelujah, right, and
they like and they will do it and in the
way that that feels best for that feels best for them.
And I think they're like a great model of what
(42:29):
it means to say, like I may not have found
myself in that in that physical place, I may not
for myself with the anymore, but I know that like
I and that I can still experience it it, you know,
wherever else. So yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, anyways, yeah, it's
(42:50):
we are at that time and now that they've let
the doors on us to demand contribution from the congregation,
if you know, you know, we got to find some
bills for the collection.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
Play that.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Right, okay, y'all. So this week for What's on your Plate,
I wanted to ask you kind of in the same
vein of staying in the religion and in the church
and the faith and all of that like just the
feel good of it, all right. I wanted to ask you,
what's something food, clubs, sexual positions that feels like church
(43:31):
but ain't church?
Speaker 7 (43:32):
And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
So I wanted to ask, like, what feels like church
to you? And I know for me church good food
always feels like church to me. But I think for me,
being that I'm on this book tour, being that I
have literally been traveling a lot, like not only life,
I've always well, I say, the last few years I've
been on the road a lot, I think the one
(44:05):
thing that feels like church to me, and I feel
like I'm in church right now. This notion of when
I first check into a hotel and I'm just there.
I'm there, I can put my stuff down, I can
sit down on my bed, I can order off the
we just got here, and I could just be alone
with my thoughts for a minute, because my whole life
(44:25):
is so like I don't even say it's noise, it's
just constantly John, can't you do this?
Speaker 3 (44:29):
John?
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Can you do this?
Speaker 1 (44:30):
John? Can't do this? John? Can you do this? And
it's everywhere right, it's it's it's work, it's it's my
personal life, it's my family. Like it's always like I
feel like I'm constantly the person that people latch onto
to you know, help them or to balance them and
things of that nature. And so when I get to
a hotel most of the time, it's just me, and
it's just really really really nice for me to be
able to kind of like be and reset and be
(44:51):
able to kind of like, Okay, now I can go
back out there and deal with everything I got to
deal with now that I've had these two or three
days in the hotel by myself, and it's just it's
a really really nice feelings. So yes, that is church
for me, but what's church for you? Sis?
Speaker 2 (45:06):
And now I just want to say, I having a
hotel to yourself is a what's it called? Like it?
It is an underestimated experience. Like I also love when
I travel and I have a hotel, like I just
I just feel so lux it feels so nice, like
there's something there's something is there is something.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Really enjoyable about having a hotel for yourself.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
So I really feeling that I'm holding with Teresa's words
with me from our episode last month when she said
drag has been her ministry always actually agree that anything
can be holy for you if you deem it such.
So gird deaf, kimun with God on a good walk.
I came in with God at the club. I commune
with God. If there's a really good dj oh, she
comes with God.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
God is God is watched me. Fu it up.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
I can a God on my one am run to
talk about like.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
I really do be feeling it and many ways I
also find it.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
I find it in literature. Okay, I find it also
write in literature. Actually, I want to read this excerpt
if I can from I think his name.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Is Leo, Leo Leota.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
They are a like writer poet and this is from
their book. And I'll i'll like, I'll read the excerpt
cut up a little bit because.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
To me it was like when I read this, I
was like, oh like this. My brother was like, this
is a moment of God for me.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
At its heart, the queer experience is an immigrant experience.
We leave behind our birthplace, family culture. We leave outside
the system, earn less, depend on clandestine economies, off the books,
gigs and sex work. Language is life and death. The
way we are talked about how messaging reaches us the
(46:53):
new words we have to learn and teach. We're huge
parts of mainstream culture about our rights, easy to strip,
our customs, loves, even our funerals, ripping in the gravity
of two nations refugees in our own country. Yet our
impact isn't deniable because our ancestors learned the real victory
is better life for those who come after us. And
(47:15):
that to me was like really, like if if that
last line impact is not because our ancestors learned the
real victories better life for those who come after us?
Was like that was I was like, Oh, this is
one where I like I felt God around me because
like that is so powerful, right and like like part
ofesuality is connection to generations, connection to ancestors, right, and
(47:36):
so my connection to the mind sometimes is knowing that
like it's not like it's not that I am the ancestors'
wildest dreams, right, but like but like like like it's
like it's like I actually am let's see that they planted, Yes,
like I actually am, Like like I I I am
(47:56):
their dream coming to life. I'm not the wildest one
in some cases, say, but like I am the dream
that I am the dream that I am the sea
that they planted the dream that they hoped would come
to fruition, and that was not to me.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
It's really beautiful. So yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
But also but also to that point, you're also or
actually say we are we are the root in a
lot of ways, right, So, you know, they plant the sea,
and then we grow and we become the root that
keep other people up right, and.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
We become more roots.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
Yeah, we became we become the ones that grown people.
We're the ones that offer our you know, who we
are and what we've been through, what we the extensions
of the work that we do, right, whether you be
out in whether it be out in the community, because
both of us work with you know, we both work
at nonprofits, right, We work with a community in so
many different ways and so many different factions, and so
a lot of the stuff that they've planted, and a
(48:47):
lot of the stuff that we've read and a lot
of the stuff we've learned we take out into the
community and we help root people. We help people find
their footing, We help people find their ground. And so
I think that that's the thing that really makes me
so happy about out one. You know, as much as
I will tell people working at a nonprofit and be stressful.
There is an element for me that really realizes, like
(49:09):
in what you were saying that our ancestors pretty much
gave us the blueprint. I always say that the ancestors
have always given us the answers to a lot of
the things that we're dealing with, and it feels really
good to know that, you know, they even though like
as much as I don't always want to celebrate their
struggles because I think that's what it's easy to do
to say, oh, they struggled for me to get here, No,
(49:31):
they also did some really awesome things, and I think
that's worth highlighting. But I love that you say that
because I go like, we are truly the roots of
a lot of strife and struggle, but also a lot
of great things too. So I love that you shared that.
Thank you for sharing that, y'all. I'm here for it.
Speaker 3 (49:50):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Yes, yes, yes, okay, y'all. Well, with that being said,
we got one more break to get to and when
we get back, we're going to get to y'all's favorite segment. Yes, ma'am, no,
ma'm pam will be back in a second, okay, y'all.
(50:11):
So with that being said, we're gonna go HND jump
into y'all's favorite segment, Yes ma'am and No Man Pam.
And for those of you who are new to the
show or have only listened to the show a few times,
Yes ma'am and No Man Pam is usually where we
regale and we love and we give people. There that
we give people their flowers or we usually hit people
with them. I will say this so for my yes
ma'am this week, I am here for all of the people,
(50:35):
all of the political figures who are genuinely saying I'm
not backing down and telling this administration where to go
and how to get there. Some of it is performative,
So I will I will say that some of it
does feel performative, which right, I think we all have
the right to you know, what's the word I'm looking for.
(50:56):
We all have the right to critique. That's the word
I'm looking for, critique. But there are schools and places
and people who are genuinely saying, you know, DEI is
not the problem. We need to be focusing on this,
and so why are you in my face? And I
love that. I love that we have a lot of
people that are genuinely just getting to a place like
and we're not even at we're not even at one
hundred days. Let's be clear here that we haven't even
(51:18):
gotten to day right, and people are already saying fuck off,
get the fuck away from me, leave me alone, go away.
And also we're seeing I'll say this, I saw an
article today when I was on the plane. I was
reading an article that said that that man who we
don't mention around here, his his uh and I don't
(51:40):
know what, I don't how do I say this. I
always get excited when I see these kind of things,
But then also there's a part of me that's like, well,
what's what's the point of being happy about it? Because
he's still in office and he's still doing terrible things.
But I guess his approval ratings are down like negative,
like he's down to a negative four percent in terms
of like he's down negative points in terms of life
(52:00):
his career. So it's not like they're going up. That's
the thing that I'm actually happy about, So that his
approval ratings are not going up, there actually dwindling, And
I don't know what that means. And so if there
are any polyside girls out there who listen to this
podcast and they want to talk to you know, they
kind of want to send a note about, you know,
how we should be looking at these numbers or how
we should be kind of engaging them. I would love that.
(52:21):
But for the most part, I'm just really happy that
I hope that that man gets what's coming to him,
and I hope, I hope it's justice. I hope it's law.
I hope it's all the things that he keeps skirting around,
and so that just makes it really happy. Now for
my no man, Pam, I will say this, I want
to make this very clear that yes, I was at
Coachella for work. I am working. I'll just say this
(52:43):
is kind of a quick shout out. They are not
paying me to say this, but I work with the
Never a Bother campaign, and the Never a Bother campaign
is basically what for those of you who don't know,
Never Bother is a mental health program for you to
remind you that they are never a bother when when
they want to talk about their mental health, when they
(53:04):
want to talk about issues that are happening, they're not
a bother. And so being that I worked for a
youth organization we've partnered with them and they brought They
were the ones who brought me to Coachella to talk
about how I navigate my mental health and how music
has basically helped me. Now, I will say this, the
work and the panel was fantastic. I had a blast.
I was able to get in. They gave me a
(53:25):
VIP ticket. I was able to get into the VIP area.
I was able to get some food. I was able
to see Tea Pain perform, which I thought was an
absolutely fantastic set. From top to bottom, there was a
whole like steampunk, kind of like retro, not retro. What's
the word? What is that? That movie? I can see it,
(53:45):
but I can't say it. The people that live out
in the dirt. What's the name of that movie? Do
you know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Done?
Speaker 1 (53:52):
No, No, there's another one. They live out in the
dirts and they it's very very it's futuristic, but it's
all so like the world has fallen. If y'all can
figure out what the name of that movie is, please
let us know. Anyway, there's a movie out anyway. It
was very much giving, like we're out in the desert
and we're having a good time in the desert, and
that's what I loved about it. My problem was the
(54:15):
actual foundation of Coachella, like just like to get anywhere.
It is so massive and there's just so many people,
and there's just so like the pricing of everything is
so high, and it's just like I don't comprehend, like
why would someone want then? Like then I found out
(54:35):
that there were people who can't there, Like why would
you want to spend money to sleep outside at a
campground for a festival? Like it just none of it,
None of it makes sense to me, And so I
just I and maybe this is the elitism that lives
in me. I just kept thinking to myself as I
was there, like why would someone subject themselves to this?
That was the only thing I kept saying the whole
(54:57):
time that I was like, why would you subject yourself
to this? So I think for me, my biggest thing
is also too. I saw someone and post something on
on threads which I thought was really good. They were
saying how they had gone They had been going to
Coachella since maybe like early two thousand and six, two
thousand and seven, and they were saying, the heart of
Coachella has died. Because of because of capitalism. Basically, they
(55:20):
were saying, like, it doesn't feel like the way that
the original musical, the way the festival should have, It
doesn't feel like what it was intended for. And I
had responded and I said, that's a big reason why
I stopped going to Pride, because Pride just started to
feel like instead of it being like, Hey, I'm with
all my queer folks and we're celebrating, it felt like
(55:41):
Budweiser and felt like IHP, and it felt like TiSER
and it felt it just it felt like it was
too many, like the soul of the event was gone,
you know for me, And that's how I feel out
a lot of the Prides I go to. So that's
why I don't go. But yeah, I feel like I
felt that as I was at Coachella and I'm looking
around and it's kind of like you just see people
coming in, but I'm like, there's no heart. It's just
(56:03):
everyone's there to be an influencer. Everyone's there to be
seen and be noticed, and it's not about like it's
not about truly being at the festival for me. And
so that's just my big ride. That's that's my big
millennial rite about Coachella. But anyway, what's your guest man
and no Manpam?
Speaker 2 (56:21):
You know I do. I was telling my remainer earlier day.
I was like, I do could We're both saying like damn,
this is the ye. We both kind of like we
kind of like we actually missed out.
Speaker 3 (56:28):
You should be like whow we ever go?
Speaker 2 (56:29):
Like we got of messed out. But I said to her,
I was like, I do wonder what Coachilla was like
before social media. Imagine it was popular and big, but
like you're right, but like like maybe it was maybe
it was like more people, like there's more folks who
are from so Calvers like around the country or around
the world. I want to kind of artists they had,
like did they were they still big artists at that
time or not? Like I had so many questions like
(56:50):
what was Coachella before because it's this huge. It's this huge, right,
like what to people who are older ago and now
it's like only the like a young kids that go
Ortho obways say I do have questions about that. I
will say couch Chilla was it hit for me this
year as in but I loved watching I loved watching
(57:13):
the live stream.
Speaker 3 (57:15):
I love the sensibility of it all.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
And I will say I watched DJ Mustard's performance, which
like dim just having this moment right, But like y'all understand,
I've been on must I've been on Mustard for years,
like must my favorite DJs. Okay, mister mister Djon, that's
actually Jeon, my favorite DJs, and.
Speaker 4 (57:36):
Like, oh, that's okay, DJ Mustard because his name is
his name is that his name is actually Djon and
so DJ Dijon Mustard esscually Mustard.
Speaker 2 (57:49):
But like I, y'all don't realize how long his body
of his catlog is of work until you hear the
set and you're like bitch like and it's just like
it's straight bops right, like he he comes out first
song as Racks City, Tiger Pop Taga pops out and
raps Racks City, right, you get you get Big Sean
(58:09):
coming out, you get YG like he he does MC hustle. Right.
People are like cold Back could be back in some
ways some some cases like but like like raps, like
some of the raps, like you know, biggest New age
people he's produced for. You know, he he brought LM
A who I love very much like. It was sort
(58:30):
of like I was hype the entire time, like as
you should. I was like I was being I was
like popping off and the moment I was like, bitch,
if I was there, I've been fucking it up the
whole time, I would be like throwing it back on.
Everybody might put me on stage, bitch, like let me
put me in the booth like it would been.
Speaker 3 (58:48):
It was everything, So that was as well too. I
really enjoyed that I did.
Speaker 2 (58:54):
I'm sad that I missed Tea Pains, so I'm hoping
the able to catch it this weekend.
Speaker 3 (58:58):
Te Pains and Missy Elliots. I want to see those,
I do.
Speaker 1 (59:01):
Yeah, no, man, Pam, I want to see miss.
Speaker 2 (59:06):
I heard that was also, I mean expectaly, people said
it was incredible. The acts this year did seem like
they were the best acts they've had a long time.
My no, man, Pam. I just want to know who
orchestrated that flight, that space flight, who chose the people.
(59:27):
I had no idea this is happening. My good my
good girl, on My Good Girl, Auntie Gail looked stressed
the entire time for her until I saw her, Until
I saw her interview and was like this will take
all the waste and have you been bitch? I have
not been. I can't be because I'm broke, Like you're
Gail King. Of course you got to go and bitch
(59:49):
and a no offense gale. And so today you also
have not been condown it right space and asking acting
brand new, being like this is the divine thing? Then, girl,
what is space? Calm down? Also even paid for a
girl like.
Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
Just Katie, what what?
Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
What? What? What a lot?
Speaker 5 (01:00:11):
Girl?
Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
She she said, let me have my moment because I
won't have many more left. Girl. It's just it's just
made me like I was like, what career wise, your
career is not her life?
Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
Career wise? Yeah, I want to clarify. I'm not saying
she's dying.
Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
I'm saying her career is her career. But yeah, like
that just looked wild. Okay, why don't they have more
actual scientists?
Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
I just have I have paguntas.
Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
I'm about that this isn't him to the entire thing,
and like you will not make space flight fun for me, girl,
And like, let's be honest, I.
Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
Don't want to be girl like you came up and
came right back down.
Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
What will that do for me?
Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
When if they were there for me, right, if they
were there for two or three days, then I would
have said, oh, okay, that's cool, like they went through
the full thing to do what they needed to do
to be up there for two to three days. But
you were there for ten minutes, like you.
Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
Came up, came right down. Yeah, wow, physics go off
like Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
I don't know. I just said none of it, none
of it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
I'm hearing girls that you can't be sustained and you
can't be sustained. Okay, Well that gives me nothing image,
does it? So anyways, no, mmeham to all them.
Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
And can we just also know that Mama took a
minute to try to like plug her tour set while
she was out there. Did you see her with that
little star thing that she put in the camera?
Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
Bitch?
Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
She put butterflies, she puts this girl.
Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Yeah, this girl.
Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Okay, listen, at the very least Katy was at least
living her best life on that because these bitches are
trying like look like look at earth and she's just
out here like girl not.
Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
She was not.
Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
She was not there for the ride to all. She
was not there to watch Earth.
Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
She was like, I'm there for plug my tour.
Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
I need the sales.
Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
I need you to buy these tickets to this concert
because my career is doing. And now she's in the
same right, she's in the sand Kitty Cats, and now
she's in the same box as Jennifer Lopez. Like her
and Jennifer Lopez have been getting their ass handed to
them in the last couple of weeks. So it's it
(01:02:25):
is what it is.
Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
When you do new do you want out like a clown?
Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
The circus comes down.
Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Hong Kong, baby girl, That's what happens.
Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
This Oh no circus service, my god. Anyway, it's time
for us to arrive, So please send us your thoughts.
See that an email to blackfatfelmpod at gmail dot com.
You can also send us your thoughts via social media
by interacting with our posts on Instagram, Twitters, and also
Blue Sky by using the handle black fatfem Pod Joho.
Where can the dolls find you?
Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
My sweet? I'm like, what would what would my if
I fandom? What what would my name be?
Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
Like my hose Like just like my Joe Ho, the Joes,
my Johes, my Hoe Jeho Daniels across all socials. You
will not find me in space. Believe that you will
find me on my couch for all of Couchello weekend too,
because I ain't got to go. I ain't got to
(01:03:32):
go to no desert to go see some acts unless.
Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
Right right, and I will and if I get it
and if it, if it works out, trust me, you
will be the first girl I call.
Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Unless yes, I talk mad ship, but girl, give given
the right moment, Okay, change it real.
Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Quick, amen, Amen, Amen, I know that's right. Well. As
for me and as for my I'm gonna call mine
the pollies, if the pollies, those would those would be
the po the pollies because I'm doctor John Paul and
so the pollies.
Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
So if you likes.
Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
O, l y the colleges, Okay, yes, yes, it's it's yes, yes, Polly,
live for it.
Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
As for me and mine, you can find me over
down to w W dot Doctor John Paul dot com.
You can also find me all over social media promoting
my book. We are in the third fourth week of
of well, I think we're getting into the fourth week
of my We're getting close to the to a full
month of my book being out. I've been posting everywhere
about all of the successes. I have a story getting
(01:04:45):
ready to come out with another big media media place
about the book and the work. So I'm just really happy,
like my little my little baby, I call her the
Book that Could, the little Book that Could. She is
doing so much and I'm just so happy and so
proud of us. So yeah, if you want to know
more about my book, head over to my website WWU
dot doct John Paul dot com. I've been telling people
buy the book from Barnes and Noble. If you are
(01:05:07):
actively boycotting Amazon, that's totally okay. You can also get
your book at any of your local local book dealers
or publishers, whatever you want to call them. And then
also too, I have been telling people tell if you
don't have the money to buy the book, make sure
you go to your local library and request the book.
That's a great and an easy way for you to
(01:05:27):
be able to get access to the book without actually
having to break the bank. So yeah, that's pretty much
it for me and where I am. All right, y'all.
We want to also thank our producer Bai Wang for
handling all the logistics that come with this show. Thank you, babe,
you do an amazing job. And everyone over at iHeartMedia
for hitting the show up and running. My god, people,
(01:05:49):
I tell people a good podcast takes a lot of work,
and logistics is everything. So thank you, thank you, thank you,
thank you everybody. And also, I'm sure y'all probably notice,
if you've made it this far on the show, you've
noticed that my sound is different. I don't have my mic.
I'm sorry about that. I wanted to apologize front, but
I'm on the road, and so you know, it's better
(01:06:09):
than no chef. That's how I see it. It's better
than I can Okay, okay, but.
Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
That being said to me, we have went to trial
today for y'all.
Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
Were close to calling it. We were this close to
staying y'all just gonna get a repeat next week. But
here we are. We made it. We did at y'all.
We dead at y'all. With that being said, we want
to thank our wonderful editor, Chris Rogers, because without him,
we wouldn't have no audio. My god, Chris, you're going
(01:06:39):
We're gonna have to work some magic this week. But
we love that. We love you, we appreciate you. So
much the house down, Boots, and we also appreciate you
for doing the visuals down to the tubes of you.
And if you have a subscribe, honey, go over there
get your free content, girl, because we don't know how
long that content might be for you or even if
we'll be free because of the way the world is going.
(01:06:59):
My god, this has been another show, say black, fat, fine,
fabulous and remember what Joe ho.
Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
We may not be a cup of tea, but girl,
cloth that guy child and get some liquid IV you
probably anyways.
Speaker 6 (01:07:15):
Not cak b good my god, cock the tea, says Cock.
Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
With that being said, have a great night everybody. Thank
you for listening. I love us for real.
Speaker 7 (01:07:25):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
By
The Black Fat Fem Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio
and Doctor John Paul LLC. Hey everyone, welcome to another
episode of the BLACKFEFTFM podcast, where all the intersections of
identity are celebrated. I am one of your hosts, John
also known as doctor John Paul. And while Clarissa might
have been trying to explain it all, she didn't explain
(00:21):
none of this shit, like how at my rightful age
of thirty nine, my body was gonna turn on me
basically tell me what I can and can't do? Did
I tell you? I almost look like I've had to. I've
literally had to get my life together because, you know,
I've mentioned to y'all in earlier episodes that mother has,
you know, type two diabetes, and you know, even I've
(00:43):
been dealing with going back and forth to the doctor
trying to find the right medications and things. And it's just,
you know, as you get older, you don't recognize how
serious your health is until your health is serious. So
a bit has been having to take care of herself
and eat bran having to you know, I can't have
soda the way I want to, and it's just, you know,
(01:04):
I just all of this stuff that's happened. Like I
just at my big age. I just really want to
take a nap. I just really want to go take
a nap. You know, nobody told me that I would
be this age paying sixteen dollars for fucking eggs. It's
just it's just a lot to be an adult nowadays.
But here we are. We were just talking about that
in our pre show. Just a lot.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Of emotionally financially, sir, physically.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
And I paid my taxes? Did you do your taxes?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I did you know?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
I did?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Okay, wait that did you?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Did you?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (01:38):
You know?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
We didn't do the person. We didn't know. We didn't.
Next year we're going to do the person. This year
we were too close because of just our schedules didn't
allow us to get out there. Oh I know. She
does tell me every year that she does the damn thing.
I'm gonna take your word for it because I was before.
Next year, I will definitely, okay, okay, next year, we
(02:02):
will definitely be there with her making sure that we
get our coins right. But anyway, how are you mama?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Oh my god, it's been a fucking week.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
It's only Wednesday. It's been a week. Girl fam it
is your AKA, your.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Girl Joho, your fave podcaster's faith podcaster. Okay, I gotta
say this probably is our first year where I probably
experienced Coachella fomo because some of these acts looked amazing,
like really good. I was actually guy John shaking the
head like no, no no, but well, let me tell you
Couchell five was on the Poppin' I watched her last yeak.
(02:41):
I was everything Gaga, Gaga, Wow, Missy Wow, Megan bringing
out Queen Latifa and Sierra in Victoria Monette.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
But let me just tell you.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Meg and Les Dallly in between Manadians together the moment,
I was like, I could be straight. I could be
straight because they were can because they were who who
also is my jim So? I love that song too?
Just so good season coming out, I screamed. Charlie XCX's
set was amazing. I heard surprisingly Okay, DJ Mustard, I
(03:14):
knew he'd be good, but did J Mustard set. I
was hype the entire time because you don't real.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
It was better than what you anticipated.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
You don't realize how many bops I will save with
my smamp champan because it was it was Twye, I
didn't watch.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
I watched Tea Pains this next weekend.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, so I will say that I will. I will
wait till the end of the show to talk about
T Pain set because that's the only set that I
stayed for. And I we literally we finished what we
were doing right before he went on, so we ran
over to go catch it. And I literally like kind
of the same thing. We were all looking at each other,
Like the folks that I was there with, we were
all looking at each other, like you don't realize how
(03:55):
talented and how verse someone's catalog is until they do
a festival or they see their career space.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Bitch, yeah, I'll say shout to you, which because I
had several people message being like is John not Coche?
And I was like, yeah, girl panel, and it was
it was like, bitch, wait, she's really like, oh, she's official.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
I said, she is official.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
And then and then and then they're trying to guess
opts and be like why aren't you there?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I was like, it wasn't for the podcast go come Down.
I was like, y'all trying to us out so badly.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
She was podcast. I wasn't there for the podcast come down?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Calm down. But I was like, girls living her best life,
and I support her for it, y'all.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Wants to be absolutely calm down, y'all, and it's never
gonna happen. It's never gonna happen. I just want to
say that to her. I know the listeners know this,
but to the people who hate listen, there will never
be a chance. Like if there's a chance for me
to invite Jojo, I'm inviting Joho. Like, yeah, if I'm
doing something and it does not include Joho, it's nine
times out of ten for work period. All right, y'all. Well,
(04:58):
with that being said, now that we have talked enough
about Coachella, and we're going to probably talk more about
it in the show later, we're gonna go ahead and
jump into our skill Here segment this week, And what
I wanted to ask you is, you know, today's episode,
we're going to go down to the pull pit in
order to give praise to pranchant, say Tisha Campbell. Before
(05:19):
we do, I wanted to ask you. I wanted to
ask you in this segment, how in these uncertain times
are you keeping the faith? This is a question I
get asked a lot, and I was like, this is
a really good question to go along with what we're
actually talking about this week, and so I wanted to
ask you, like, how are you maintaining and managing, you know,
(05:40):
the idea of tomorrow even with all this woes, for
you to be able to have a better today. I
know you go first, and then I'll talk about mine,
because I feel like I've been talking a lot.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I love this question. Definitely, music helps me.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
There's certain songs listen to what I'm feeling, like the
world world around Me song The Party. I definitely when
I first saw this, I was my first I was
like yeah, yeah, I was like, yeah, god you have
the verbe Oh wow wow Burns House. Now I'm just
like that's something.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
But this this is a song River by Liam Thomas.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I don't know who that is.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Like gives like spiritual vibes, such a beautiful song.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Oh I do know that.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
I think I've heard the track, but true the River, No, no, no,
not now that's the River.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I thought that's the one his song as it's his
song as more slow. It's very very giving, very hymns vibe,
but it's very like how I how you say, like
it's just it's like a real beef song. It's like
sixthing I do try to relax. I often play this
too shot pass, but India reas just such a beautiful
(06:59):
like song about knowing that things right, things right now
are hard and things will get.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
I'll get through.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Count count on me for wanting to exhale with Winnie
who send and CC pens I think ever her name,
You're just like a cc win not CC penistin no,
not no, I said, CC Penance, I know that pstant.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
Like finally I know not but I meant cz my
bad Ez.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
They said you have a Dan girl on your black guard,
my bad cc so music music hows you get the faith.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
And then also knowing like I just got.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I just got, like like like Lego, that God is
a really is a really little thing for me, like Lego,
like God, like I have control over a very finite math.
Things I need to let go of the things are
not my control, and I struggle with it all the
time for sure, But I definitely like realize more and
more now like Lego let a girl, I don't need
to know everything. I can just like sit here and
(08:01):
be okay with it. Even if it's all like it's
all worries over here, sister, really is. But I know
it's gonna be okay because I know my God got me.
To my God, this has got me for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah about you, that's real, that's real. I love that
you say that, because I think that's kind of where
people have been asking me how I'm so calm, And
I think that that's where my heart has really been
in the last couple of months of like I can't
control none of this shit, Like I can't I can
spend all my days and every day worrying about tomorrow
and what what, what's what's coming my way? Or I
(08:33):
can pour my energy and saying Okay, today is today,
and I'm doing what I can today to be happy today,
and then tomorrow I will worry about what comes my way.
And I think that's really where where I've been. But
even on top of that, you know, I've been really
thinking about this idea too, of like talking to my
ancestors and my trancestors. You know, I pray a lot
these these days. I've been praying a lot for clarity
(08:54):
and really just saying, like, please put me in the
right spaces, put me around the right people, you know,
put me in a place where I'm not setting myself
up for failure because of my own wants, and and
then and not saying that they can see the future,
and if they can, great, right, but I think just
asking for my own clarity as an imperfect human. And
(09:15):
then you know, sometimes, you know, something I've been thinking
a lot about in this moment is like being rooted
in spirituality and reminding myself that spirituality doesn't always have
to look like a Bible and holy water right church
and spirituality for me can be found on my peloton.
Church can be found in a bakery. Once my my
A one C level is back, you know, in order, right,
(09:38):
you know, the Lord has said where there's three or
more gathered, right, you're in his name. And so you know,
if the girls want to go down to the dunkin
Donut on a Saturday night, like, you know, what are
we doing? How are we getting together to phrase God? Right?
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Like?
Speaker 1 (09:54):
That's really what what I've been thinking a lot about
is this notion of like it doesn't have to look like, oh,
I'm going to church Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday for me
to be able to find God it can be very
much in this notion of like we find God here
every time we cut on a mic, even though the
internet is terrible today.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Right like.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
We're still We're still here, you know, preaching to one
another and uplifting one another. And I think that's the
thing that I have to constantly keep telling myself is
that spirituality is not just you know, LinkedIn or locked
into religion. So that's how I been keeping my faith.
These people ain't going I'm gonna say this. These people
are not gonna scare me and to stress to a
(10:35):
heart attack, to any like our ancestors have lived or worse.
I'm not. I'm not worth this.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I was gonna say, like like why why I says
to anybody like when something when something like stressful happens,
just laugh, like like like tally make yourself laugh, like
you're like this ship is so crazy, But like I can't.
I'm a laugh one because like it takes an edge off.
But also like y'all I have, I like I'm too
(11:04):
worried about my heart. I'm not trying. I'm not what
y'all doing does not concern me, right, Like I'm too
I'm too worried about like making sure my heart's in
my heart's and in good health and it is, and
like that's more important to me than like the bullshit
that y'all y'all trying to do that's not for me.
And so I feel like, you know, like when when
when people like you, I think great to someone's Like,
(11:25):
so I asks you, how how are you so calm? Girl?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Like?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Why? Because me being not calm will not If I'm
not calm, it won't help me.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
It won't help me.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
More like, if I approach it from a place of
like anxiety or stress or franticness, I won't get done
and I won't be helpful for myself or others. So like, I, god,
keep it calm and be like, no, girl, like that
that's some bullshit. Let me just approach it because like
because meaning activating will actually not solve will not solve
a problem, a problem I need, like I need to.
(11:56):
I need to remain calm to be myself. I can say, no,
I can work this.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, that's the real tea. And I think that's the
thing I've been really thinking a lot about these days,
is like I have so many like you've said, You've
you've texted me this like, I have a lot of
pans on the fire, and so the moment that I
lose focus on those pans, then now everything isn't disarray.
So I wake up every day being like, let me
just focus on the things I need to focus on.
(12:22):
So I can't worry. I can't worry about nothing that
that don't concern Doctor John Paul, LLC. I can't worry
about nothing that doesn't concern my wellness, my household, my life,
my family because all of that stuff out there, I'm
not going to allow that to be the thing to
take me down. Period. So her yeah, all right, y'all. Well,
(12:45):
with that being said, we have to go down to
Bevmo to get more communion wine because Jojo drank it
all but wet me. But we will be back with
the category in section more in a second.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
And welcome to black fam. So this time we're going
to get into something that we have mentioned a few
months ago out to receiving a listener letter. We touched
on it in a very very very early on in
our show, like episode six or seven, but we want
to put a little spin on it. So I talk
about a lot on the show about my Josha Danady
on you on here, John's mentioned about the reform passage
(13:38):
of his witness. We never get into the meat of
how we define spirituality and faith around these parts. We
were on a podcast, so I'll go about it as
well too, but we don't do it as much on
our show. Mainly how we've been able to hold on
to spirituality in faith even the moments that people have
tried to use it against us. Yeah, So you know,
(13:59):
I want to first ask you, John, what's your definition
of spirituality if you have one, and how do you
maintain Now how does it move you today?
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Well, one, this is going to be a real good
key key because I, as you know, I love talking
anything and everything religion, spirituality. It's something that I don't
think a lot of people know about me. I almost
like when I was in college, I almost majored in
religious studies because of the experience that I am religion
(14:29):
theology right, and and what initially made me not was
I just I didn't really feel a calling to it
per se, so I just kind of left it alone.
But what I will say is that I think that
you know, I think for me, spirituality and religion are
are oftentimes confused because people conflate that you have to
(14:51):
be religious in order to be spiritual, and like I
said at the top of the show, like I don't
I don't necessarily believe that because I'll say this, you
can go to a church, right and you can hear
someone talk for hours and not have a spiritual experience.
It's just them preaching right for an hour and a half,
and you're like, why why did I come here? Like
(15:13):
what's the point of this? Whereas you can go to like,
for instance, with me, when I went to Renaissance, and
I know that people will probably say like, oh, John,
you're being no same, but it's like I went to
the Renaissance experience twice and each time there for me
was a spiritual experience because I felt like I was
in a room full of people who saw me and
understood me and comprehended me. And music, you know, Beyonce's
(15:34):
music was motivating me and uplifting me in a way. Right.
So I think that that for me is how I've
been able to kind of like definelus redefine the notion
of spirituality versus religion, because I think in a lot
of ways religion is very harmful to a lot of people,
and I don't want to paint it all is terrible, right.
(15:55):
Something I was thinking about as we were, you know,
putting the thought together for this same episode, I was saying,
religion works for who it works for, right, And what
I mean by that is, if you're in a space
that says you're queer and we accept you and we
love you, okay, that works for you. But if you're
in a space that says we follow the Bible this
way and we don't. So it's all about how religion
(16:18):
is all about interpretation, and I think for me, I've
removed myself from that, and I've said spirituality is more
about the way I feel about the ways I feel uplifted,
the ways that I feel motivated, the ways that I
feel encouraged.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
So you know, I I just have like so many,
so many thoughts around this. I know we'll discuss a
bit later, but like I'm always fascinated by the difference
between religion spirituality for people, because religion is used as
a tool for harm, that spirituality can be as well too,
(16:55):
and so you know, and like it's like people can
eat None of these things are actually here bad, they
are just neutral, but people use them for bad or
for good. I think a lot of people who use
who use like spiritually using spiritualism as a way of
like like to like spiritually bypass something right, or people.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Who usually who lose, who use religion for bad.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
I think for me, spirituality has meant different things over
the course of my life. Right now definitely means just
having a belief in connection to something above me. Yeah,
one thing I think a lot about when I gave
punt of our tour at my hot Mitzvah, there's a
line where I said, miracles happen, whether I believe them
(17:35):
or not, whether I can explain, whether whether I.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Can explain them or not.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Miracles exist, and like the fact that I'm here right
or ever everyone in that moment and time in that
in that experience with me, like it was a miracle
that we were all there together. And so I choose
to believe in miracles, right like my my spirituality leads
me to choose and to believe in miracles. My speciality
leads me to choose to believe in the higher power
that's above me, or powers that be above me. I think,
(18:03):
I think to me like I think, I maintain it
I think, because like I just like I just know
there are things like, for I met somebody recently who
like I have I have a little.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Connection with.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
And like, and I had met someone else in their
life before independent of them, and and then it's like
seeing them was like, oh, like it must be like
Kismet that we like met in this work in this way, right,
And that's what the foul sure, I think, right like,
(18:41):
I think that it was Kismet that you and I
were at the same time, right, Like, there's so there's
like truly an infinite number of scenarios that could have
happened that would have led to us not being here,
but we got to exist in the scenario where we
got to be here together. And so to me, right like,
my spirituality makes me believe that miracles up, whether I
(19:02):
whether I whether I think they whether I think they
think that you or not. So I think so I
think I maintain my spirituality. But also being like if
I like, I can choose not to, I can choose
to not believe it, but doesn't deny its existence. So
I really believe it exists.
Speaker 6 (19:16):
Come on, I believe in Merca and baby if for
those of you who don't know what that is.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
That's Whitney Houston. I believe in you and Me from
the Preacher's Wife soundtrack.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Yes come on now, come on, yeh, come on source material.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yes, yes, yes, definitely that. I love that you talked about.
And it's funny because even when I was putting this together,
I didn't even really get into this notion of like
what do you believe in terms of like where do
we go after this? Or miracles and blah blah blah.
So it's really cool that you mentioned that because I
think that that's also a part of spirituality, right, Like
I truly have been in moments in my life where
I've looked around and I've said, this can't be anything
(19:59):
but God, right, or this can't be anything but the universe,
or this can't be anything but you know what I
like to say, I call them my threes, right, my angels,
And you know, those are the folks that I've lost
over my life who I know are still watching and
directing me and helping me navigate this this life that
we have now, right. And So I love that you
(20:20):
mentioned that because I think that that opens up kind
of a door for people who are struggling, and I
feel like that's the thing I also wanted to say,
like in this moment, for those who are listening, if
you are struggling with your religion, or you're struggling with
the notion of trying to find spirituality in a world
where religion has damaged you or harmed you, right, like
we are opening our mailbox to you to say, like,
(20:44):
send us your thoughts, like please engage in this conversation
with us, because I feel like both of us have
such a good handle on who we are when it
comes to our spirituality and our religion. You know, how
we see the world around how we see that concept, right,
I feel like we're in a good place to be
able to be able to kind of help you get
(21:05):
to a good place around it. And I want to
make sure that folks who are listening know that we're
happy to help in that regard. So I did want
to ask you, Joeho And I know that it feels
like I'm probably interviewing you. I'm I feel like this episode,
I'm interviewing you more because I feel like you have
more of a stronger hold on your spirituality than I do.
I believe in it, but it's not my it doesn't
guide my path per se. Whereas for you, I feel like,
(21:27):
because you're and you have a very strong ties to
your jewish Ness, per se, I feel like these questions,
you know, kind of land a little bit more than
they stick. So I hate to keep asking you questions.
But I know last week I text you and I
was like, bitch, why don't you wear a Yama cut?
(21:49):
Because I was in New York and I kept seeing
people with the Yama cut, and I just was like,
why an't I seen my sister the Yama cut? So
I found that really interest sting, and I think the
response you gave me via text was really interesting, and
I thought it'd be really good for you to bring
to the pod. So I didn't want to ask you,
like why why I know yamaka?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Yeah, so let me tell you. So that was verbat
what John texted me.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
John, literally, I mind my business on a random night
and all and all like is bitch, why don't you
why don't you wear yamaka? As I said, what what
do you mean? Yeah? And so like it's just you know,
this relationship John and I have. John was just like, bitch,
were Yama? I was like let me tell you why.
But first, so first first of me say, let me
(22:38):
say like like I'll be believe of folks like I
am a spiritual bitch. I think people see me like,
oh that like this bitch is this bitch is divine
some way, But like I wasn't like I wasn't like
this like I like I used to dai as an atheist,
I used to as like I don't believe in God
or something I think I'm I think like you like
(23:00):
a denial of myself. I alwaysknew I felt conected to
something higher than me. But and so like like I
refused to like say it was God I feel because
I thought religion was such a vehicle of harm for
a long time. And my Jewishness, so I can say
part of that too, like I would would didn't practice
Judaism because I was like an ism it still sounds
like an ism.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
And but like my.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Coming by coming into my Jewishness, like was a series
of divine timings like when I first joined my when
my I would say, like I I always felt connected
to something higher than me. I always felt like a
connection to something spiritual. I just didn't have language for it.
After my dad passed. I really I feel like I
(23:44):
dived into something that was that like I find I
like dive into what the connection actually meant for me.
And right like divine timing was like a month after
my month after my dad passed, as I get this
dream job in this Jewish place that like no about
Jews of color and knows about like Jewish mysticism and
like we we are like we had they just had
(24:05):
this rabbi who was director of Jewish engagement for two years,
and so like for two years, I get to learn
from her like this like radical, radically feminist Jewish rabbi,
which I will say like feminists and rabbis did not
always mix, and women rabbis did not did not always happen.
It's one in the past, like twenty thirty years of
that that she happened in the history of of like
(24:26):
of like rabbinicalhood, you know. So my education for my
spirituality in that way Jewishly was also like immensely radicle,
which I think was really helpful for me. Yeah, and
so I just say that they have a context like
who I am for folks to like because I am
spiritual and people feel it and see it within me,
but something that I really had to like, work like,
work towards right verse versus versus like, And so my
(24:46):
entrance point got to be like get my interest point
got to be like, I got to choose spirituality in
my own way right versus you being raised in religion
and that and that right you don't have agency. I
had agency and what I chose to do, and that's
why it's been so special for me and why I
(25:06):
feel so so switch now about So the yamaka, so
I was about to say, is yeah, so Kipa is Hebrew,
Yamaica is Yiddish, both forms of languages used by Jewish people.
But he the Hebrews the more like Hebrews different Yiddish
or whatever. And so, first of all, people wear it
(25:31):
by it's a lot of a lot of the things.
People wear it now by their own level of observance,
like right like most most likely if you're writ in
New York, most people were seeing folks who were Orthodox.
So people have the whole the high level of observant observance,
and they wear it because some believe some believe that
it is halacha, which is like Jewish law. Some believe
(25:53):
it demonstrates a belief of someone watching above you. Right
that like like having the dome around on your head
is like the the connection point to to to the
divine and God's watching you, and so like having a
head covering helps keep you blessed. Essentially, I don't wear
it because I'm not religious in that sense. I will
(26:14):
say there was a movement in a Pacific denomination, the
reform movement to not work keep us or yamaca's at all,
but more more people have actually feen a lot more
meaning in it. Like now a lot of people who
are reformed wear it. And you know, I have a
friend who's I don't know what their nomination is, but
like but like like they're super queer, super into it
(26:37):
and like and they and they were as well too, right,
It's been sus pretty amazing to see like queer folks
where we're we're yamaka's. A lot of them are stablish now,
right not not a lot of them are stylish like
before they're just like a solid color other pattern. They're
knit their crochet like they're really cute, like they h
in your style, So you know, so and and now
and like now, before it was just people identify as
(26:59):
men wear them and now like all gingers wear them,
I don't wear it because it's not for me. I
don't believe I need to be with I don't believe
almbum I need to wear it to be divine embracing
or divine fearing and truthfully does not work with my hair.
Wearing that. Don't do not be having curls like this,
(27:20):
like they be having mostly flat hair, or they have curls,
but like the small curls and their hair are sure.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Or listen your words, not mine, but.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Like them with hair.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
A lot of people wearing it with hair like this, and
if someone does, you let me know where you know.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
That's the thing is Also it typically goes on.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Like this like back corner of your head, and then
she will fall right off my head. It will slip, girl.
And I have tried to do a pin with it, girl,
or like a little like a little bubby pin, but
she will just hang out the time my net, like
looking crazy. So that's just not that's it's it's not
for me.
Speaker 3 (27:58):
But it's not for me, not for me, not for me.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
I love, I love I love that, not for me, babe,
So I love this is a great response because it
sets up the following thought similar to what you shared,
this idea of what's for you and what's not for you?
And I think about this, you know, we we had
like in the midst of us trying to put this
episode together. One of the bigger things that it came
up was talking about this idea of how I initially
(28:24):
I had I have seen so I've seen this article,
but I know that you were the one who shared
it with me, and I was I was actually had
looked at it more like more intently for this conversation, right,
So there are people who like you, you know, who
like you, have chosen a religion and then had said
this is not for me anymore. I'm leaving. There are
people like me who have had a religion pushed on
to them and they said, yep, I'm out of here.
(28:45):
This isn't for me because this is this is too much.
And the article it's the Pew Research Center. For those
of you, we're actually gonna put the article in the
show notes. Uh, there was a number there was research
that shows that over twenty nine percent of Christians are
pretty much dipping out. And this happened between the pandemic,
and I think it was last year was when they
(29:07):
wrapped the actual research, this of the study, and so
there were folks who, specifically during the pandemic were like this.
I think a big part of it was how do
I say this because I don't want to get I
don't want to step on anyone's toes. But I also
don't want to put I don't want to I don't
want to make assumptions. This is what I believe. I
want to let me say that, this is what I believe.
(29:28):
I believe that so many people saw so much mess
happening during the pandemic, specifically around PPP loans and a
lot of churches taking out these loans, and a lot
of religious people doing some really messed up stuff during
the pandemic, and they said, I don't want to mind
myself with this. And then even you add to all
(29:50):
of the religious hatred and and how a lot of
quote unquote pro Christians and pro people they've been doing
a lot of stuff to like marginalize specifically queer and
trans people. And so I think people are starting to
wake up and say I don't want this anymore. I
gotta go. And it's not just in America. It's happening
all over the world, and so many they're now calling
(30:12):
them unaffiliated, right, you know, instead of saying I'm atheist,
or people just saying I'm unaffiliated, I don't want anything
to do with religion in general. And that's kind of
like me. I guess I can be called disaffiliated. And
many are just saying, you know that that simple piece
from above, I want nothing to do with this, And
so I just I thought that that was kind of
deep and I thought it was important to share because
(30:35):
I think the world has been so unkind to so
many people, and a lot of people are losing faith
in religion, and so in this research, we're seeing young
folks leave religion in droves because they're going, this is
not the type of person I want to be. And
I guess the question and the thought that I have
about is why and what about this study maybe piqued
(30:58):
your interest in wanting to include it in this conversation.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Yeah, So, I mean, so one I when I will say, like,
I just want to clarify, like I don't like, I
don't identify, I don't identify, I don't identify within the
Protestant Judaism I identify like my I think it's also
interesting hard because Jewishness for people, like it's like it
is cultural. Some argue ethnic, some argue race, it's a lot,
(31:24):
it's a lot of things. I my usage of it
is ethnic and cultural. You know, like like if I
if I do my twenty three and meters will show
up as I am this percentage of Astrinazi Jewish, and
this percentage of West African, and this percentage of like
of others and stuff. And so that's the only that's
like how I use it myself. And so I was
(31:45):
really clear of like like I don't go to temple,
I don't go to synagogic I do not find I
don't find my uh spirit. I find my spiritualism in
those spaces, right and so and so I think it's
so I like I said that, as I said a
best till why I was into this Sundy because also right,
as people folks know, I work in the Jewish community,
(32:05):
and while my work is actually based in race, ethnicity,
you know, focusing on Jews of color, Judaism is still
part of the job. And like you know, we work
with temples, we work with synagogues, we work with places
where like Judaism is part of their identity or the
religious affiliation is part of their identity. And we also
have seen right like we know people are leaving Judaism
(32:26):
or temple spaces, right or people leave temple spaces but
don't leave Judaism, like they just practice in their ways.
So it's interested in this because I'm like, oh, I
wonder because in some cases the work that I do
really is a microcoloism for like the rest of the world,
like the issues that happened in Jewish communities. I will say,
it's very very interesting way, like are sometimes like precursors
(32:48):
to what I'm seeing trend wise happening like in like
non Jewish spaces around me. Yeah, yeah, And so I
think I was just in that. You know, pewse Pews
like a I think p is a research that is
a research house that we often recite or fellow we've
done we did a in my job, we had done
we had done like analysis of their studies before too,
(33:10):
so like we trust their work. They have the probably
the most like the most like quantitative and quality of
data that we can use anyways, So I think I
was fascinated by that. I think that's also fascinated by, Like,
you know, it's there's a lot of discussion about christianitiy
in here, right, like Christianian and Buddhism being the two
biggest ones, the biggest losses from religious switching, right or
(33:33):
like disipiliation that.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
The fasting as well too.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
One because I'm like, oh, I would never like, I
don't think about Buddhism one as religion. I think of
it as as a philosophy. And I was like, oh,
I'm so curious to like what making people lead from Buddhism.
Also because like you don't see Buddhism in the world
is in America as harp you don't see as like
a harmful thing, then like you see Christianity, Bewill died,
(33:56):
and so I think I was also fascinated by that.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
So I think, you know, there's a lot of this
is why I was really.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Into that and knowing that like inversely, I have I
know more people like right, like this says more people
are quitting religion, but I know more people who are
finding spirituality yep. And so I was also fascinated about
like what's like what's the difference between them, you know,
because I also and as I said, I was like
hinting at earlier, like spirituality and religion are sometimes are
(34:25):
kind of to me like can be interchangeable, right, like
like spirituality, I think, like it's just hard.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
I think spirituality can be like the actual how I
say spirituality is like the.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
State of being in religion is like the practice. I
think sometimes it's how I see it, but I think
they can be the same thing for people. And so
but it's it's it's like it's like it's like, are
people leaving with religion or are they are they leaving
their churches? Right about a great a great point of
Like people left their churches because I saw the churches
like using using their religion to like for like for
(35:02):
like you know, quote unquote like immoral things or like
for self interest.
Speaker 3 (35:06):
Right, and so.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
It's like and you and and the second people, that's
the thing is like people find people find spirituality in
a church, a place of religion, and then when that
church like does have been horrible, they then like distance
themselves from their religion or spirituality. But like you don't
you don't also have to do that, like you like
you could actually find it somewhere else, which is also,
which is also why I think, like it's hard for
(35:28):
me to say identify it as religious, but like I
also have never found home in a physical container for
that sexuality different mm hmm, yeah, And so I wonder
if I did that when I felt different. But I
also wonder, like if I was harmed by like my
place of worship, would that cause me to leave it?
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Right right?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Like you were harmed by your by by your place
and an idea of worship that was that was thrust
upon you, and so you left be because like that
is the mostly rational things.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
I had to go, mother had to go, And I
think that that's you know, I don't want to So
I was going to initially frame this as a question,
but I think we're getting close to time, and so
I was going to say, like, I think one of
the things that we that I did want to kind
of talk about and really thinking about this conversation and
why I feel like it's so important right now is
you know, one, obviously it's going to be but when
(36:24):
you all hear this, so this episode will come out
like like literally a couple of days after Easter. But
I think there's still people who are very much in
his mind that this is a very religious month, and
a lot of people have probably been thinking a lot
about their spirituality and their religions and things of that nature.
And so I think it is, you know, that was
what really kind of hit me right and wanting to
(36:46):
have this convo, was thinking about how everyone kind of
how just where a lot of my and a lot
of friends groups, in a lot of spaces, in a
lot of places, I'm finding more and more people saying
I'm trying to get right with my spirituality or my religion,
or my heart, or whatever the case may be, because
of the times that we're living in. And I think
that I can feel that there are a lot of
(37:07):
people who are who are having a very hard time
with it because they don't feel welcomed or they don't
feel as safe in these places and in these spaces
to try to find spirituality right. And so I think
I've been thinking a lot about like what advice we
would give for those who might feel attacked or unwelcomed
(37:29):
in a place right now where they're trying to find
religion or or hold on to their faith or all
of those different things. And I think for me, one
of the notes that I had made. I love your
point and I can't wait for you to share it.
But I was going to say, this has made me
think a lot about this idea of how I wish
(37:50):
I didn't have the trauma. Like I know my husband,
me and Jonathan talk about this a lot. He never
had religion pushed onto him ever, and so and he's
feel very much, you know, absorbed, like he doesn't want
anything to do with it. But I'm thinking, like, how
much easier it would be for me to feel connected
to whatever higher power if I didn't have the history
(38:11):
that I had of it so cruel to me and
so wanting to let people know, Like I guess my
advice or my thought around this notion of how how
do people find faith in this moment if they feel
like the places where they want to find faith are
not safe is recognizing that humans are cruel and that
humans will say really cruel things to you, but humans
(38:31):
are also not perfect, and so that gives me space
to allow people to make mistakes, but also to really
think about this notion too, of what do you need
to do to protect yourself if you are going into
these places trying to find spirituality and peace? Right giving
yourself the agency to say that if this doesn't feel
(38:52):
good to me as I'm trying to heal or I'm
trying to get better, that you have the right to
say I'm out of here, like I'm not. I'm not
held to this thing, right And if you want to
look to be Buddhists, if you want to be if
you want to look to heighten your Christianity or your
catholicnessness is whatever, Like I think we can all do that,
but I definitely think, you know, I really think we
(39:13):
need to operate from a place of worshiping and not
passion judgment on other people. And that is the advice
that I would give it. If you feel like you're
being judged while you're trying to find peace and solace
and heal, to reconsider, that's just really where my heart is.
What about you?
Speaker 3 (39:32):
I think that.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
It's all like, it's all just and it really it's
all just so hard. Like I too, wish I wish
you also had a better I wish you could have
had a strong I wish you could have. My wish
for you is that you could have built your relationship
to spirituality in your own way. Yeah, and not a
way that was thrust upon you and that you got
(39:58):
the actual agency to say I might this or don't
love this, right, And I hope I hope that like
like maybe like maybe one day you can as well too,
and that's okay and also tokay if you don't, but
that's also okay. Like I think, I think, like you've mentioned,
like you have your own relationship to to the divine
right or to God right, however you call it right,
you know, so you mentioned that before, and I think
(40:18):
that's the least powerful and special.
Speaker 3 (40:20):
I think it depends on how you how you call it,
because like sometimes.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
I I go between like sometimes I say God, sometimes
I say that says I say the Divine, So it
always is different for me, like who it is I'm
referring to speaking to I don't always know. And so
I think, like you know, for people who feel into welcome,
I think find pocket spirituality where you can.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
I think a lot about right.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
I can think thinking about bay Davis who says she's
going to like this trans church and how amazing that
is for her and she gets to practice, like you know,
she gets she gets to practice like like like Caribbean
influence religion I think that's so specially and so beautiful
and so like there our pockets where if someone is leave,
if you're like thinking of leaving your church, girl leave
(41:05):
like because one because if if the thoughts for you,
like if the thought is for you, follow the thought, girl,
leave but don't like but don't believe, but don't believe
that that can be the end. That that's the and
and another road for you. If you want more, you
can find it somewhere.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
I deserve.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
You and you you you just like you deserve more
right like like if you love like if you love God, right,
if you love God, if you love praising, if you
love throwing them hands up and catching a spear, girl, right,
if you have been like a love God, God loves me. Right,
then like you deserve to have that. Don't don't let
yourself not have that because this one church makes you
(41:50):
feel some type of way, like there are places for you.
And and if if it's not at the specific church,
if it's not right in a church building, there is
a group for you. Like the stuff is that you
do like you have to put in the work to
reach out to it, but it is there for you,
Like don't don't deny what makes you feel good.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
I think a lot. I think a lot.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
I think a lot about Trevell, right, that Trevell loves God,
Trevell so inspiring, and Trevell loves God for themselves, right,
they like, they love themselves from God. They love themselves.
They love themselves some praising, right, okay, hallelujah, right, and
they like and they will do it and in the
way that that feels best for that feels best for them.
And I think they're like a great model of what
(42:29):
it means to say, like I may not have found
myself in that in that physical place, I may not
for myself with the anymore, but I know that like
I and that I can still experience it it, you know,
wherever else. So yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, anyways, yeah, it's
(42:50):
we are at that time and now that they've let
the doors on us to demand contribution from the congregation,
if you know, you know, we got to find some
bills for the collection.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
Play that.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Right, okay, y'all. So this week for What's on your Plate,
I wanted to ask you kind of in the same
vein of staying in the religion and in the church
and the faith and all of that like just the
feel good of it, all right. I wanted to ask you,
what's something food, clubs, sexual positions that feels like church
(43:31):
but ain't church?
Speaker 7 (43:32):
And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
So I wanted to ask, like, what feels like church
to you? And I know for me church good food
always feels like church to me. But I think for me,
being that I'm on this book tour, being that I
have literally been traveling a lot, like not only life,
I've always well, I say, the last few years I've
been on the road a lot, I think the one
(44:05):
thing that feels like church to me, and I feel
like I'm in church right now. This notion of when
I first check into a hotel and I'm just there.
I'm there, I can put my stuff down, I can
sit down on my bed, I can order off the
we just got here, and I could just be alone
with my thoughts for a minute, because my whole life
(44:25):
is so like I don't even say it's noise, it's
just constantly John, can't you do this?
Speaker 3 (44:29):
John?
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Can you do this?
Speaker 1 (44:30):
John? Can't do this? John? Can you do this? And
it's everywhere right, it's it's it's work, it's it's my
personal life, it's my family. Like it's always like I
feel like I'm constantly the person that people latch onto
to you know, help them or to balance them and
things of that nature. And so when I get to
a hotel most of the time, it's just me, and
it's just really really really nice for me to be
able to kind of like be and reset and be
(44:51):
able to kind of like, Okay, now I can go
back out there and deal with everything I got to
deal with now that I've had these two or three
days in the hotel by myself, and it's just it's
a really really nice feelings. So yes, that is church
for me, but what's church for you? Sis?
Speaker 2 (45:06):
And now I just want to say, I having a
hotel to yourself is a what's it called? Like it?
It is an underestimated experience. Like I also love when
I travel and I have a hotel, like I just
I just feel so lux it feels so nice, like
there's something there's something is there is something.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
Really enjoyable about having a hotel for yourself.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
So I really feeling that I'm holding with Teresa's words
with me from our episode last month when she said
drag has been her ministry always actually agree that anything
can be holy for you if you deem it such.
So gird deaf, kimun with God on a good walk.
I came in with God at the club. I commune
with God. If there's a really good dj oh, she
comes with God.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
God is God is watched me. Fu it up.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
I can a God on my one am run to
talk about like.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
I really do be feeling it and many ways I
also find it.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
I find it in literature. Okay, I find it also
write in literature. Actually, I want to read this excerpt
if I can from I think his name.
Speaker 3 (46:12):
Is Leo, Leo Leota.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
They are a like writer poet and this is from
their book. And I'll i'll like, I'll read the excerpt
cut up a little bit because.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
To me it was like when I read this, I
was like, oh like this. My brother was like, this
is a moment of God for me.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
At its heart, the queer experience is an immigrant experience.
We leave behind our birthplace, family culture. We leave outside
the system, earn less, depend on clandestine economies, off the books,
gigs and sex work. Language is life and death. The
way we are talked about how messaging reaches us the
(46:53):
new words we have to learn and teach. We're huge
parts of mainstream culture about our rights, easy to strip,
our customs, loves, even our funerals, ripping in the gravity
of two nations refugees in our own country. Yet our
impact isn't deniable because our ancestors learned the real victory
is better life for those who come after us. And
(47:15):
that to me was like really, like if if that
last line impact is not because our ancestors learned the
real victories better life for those who come after us?
Was like that was I was like, Oh, this is
one where I like I felt God around me because
like that is so powerful, right and like like part
ofesuality is connection to generations, connection to ancestors, right, and
(47:36):
so my connection to the mind sometimes is knowing that
like it's not like it's not that I am the ancestors'
wildest dreams, right, but like but like like like it's
like it's like I actually am let's see that they planted, Yes,
like I actually am, Like like I I I am
(47:56):
their dream coming to life. I'm not the wildest one
in some cases, say, but like I am the dream
that I am the dream that I am the sea
that they planted the dream that they hoped would come
to fruition, and that was not to me.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
It's really beautiful. So yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
But also but also to that point, you're also or
actually say we are we are the root in a
lot of ways, right, So, you know, they plant the sea,
and then we grow and we become the root that
keep other people up right, and.
Speaker 3 (48:24):
We become more roots.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
Yeah, we became we become the ones that grown people.
We're the ones that offer our you know, who we
are and what we've been through, what we the extensions
of the work that we do, right, whether you be
out in whether it be out in the community, because
both of us work with you know, we both work
at nonprofits, right, We work with a community in so
many different ways and so many different factions, and so
a lot of the stuff that they've planted, and a
(48:47):
lot of the stuff that we've read and a lot
of the stuff we've learned we take out into the
community and we help root people. We help people find
their footing, We help people find their ground. And so
I think that that's the thing that really makes me
so happy about out one. You know, as much as
I will tell people working at a nonprofit and be stressful.
There is an element for me that really realizes, like
(49:09):
in what you were saying that our ancestors pretty much
gave us the blueprint. I always say that the ancestors
have always given us the answers to a lot of
the things that we're dealing with, and it feels really
good to know that, you know, they even though like
as much as I don't always want to celebrate their
struggles because I think that's what it's easy to do
to say, oh, they struggled for me to get here, No,
(49:31):
they also did some really awesome things, and I think
that's worth highlighting. But I love that you say that
because I go like, we are truly the roots of
a lot of strife and struggle, but also a lot
of great things too. So I love that you shared that.
Thank you for sharing that, y'all. I'm here for it.
Speaker 3 (49:50):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
Yes, yes, yes, okay, y'all. Well, with that being said,
we got one more break to get to and when
we get back, we're going to get to y'all's favorite segment. Yes, ma'am, no,
ma'm pam will be back in a second, okay, y'all.
(50:11):
So with that being said, we're gonna go HND jump
into y'all's favorite segment, Yes ma'am and No Man Pam.
And for those of you who are new to the
show or have only listened to the show a few times,
Yes ma'am and No Man Pam is usually where we
regale and we love and we give people. There that
we give people their flowers or we usually hit people
with them. I will say this so for my yes
ma'am this week, I am here for all of the people,
(50:35):
all of the political figures who are genuinely saying I'm
not backing down and telling this administration where to go
and how to get there. Some of it is performative,
So I will I will say that some of it
does feel performative, which right, I think we all have
the right to you know, what's the word I'm looking for.
(50:56):
We all have the right to critique. That's the word
I'm looking for, critique. But there are schools and places
and people who are genuinely saying, you know, DEI is
not the problem. We need to be focusing on this,
and so why are you in my face? And I
love that. I love that we have a lot of
people that are genuinely just getting to a place like
and we're not even at we're not even at one
hundred days. Let's be clear here that we haven't even
(51:18):
gotten to day right, and people are already saying fuck off,
get the fuck away from me, leave me alone, go away.
And also we're seeing I'll say this, I saw an
article today when I was on the plane. I was
reading an article that said that that man who we
don't mention around here, his his uh and I don't
(51:40):
know what, I don't how do I say this. I
always get excited when I see these kind of things,
But then also there's a part of me that's like, well,
what's what's the point of being happy about it? Because
he's still in office and he's still doing terrible things.
But I guess his approval ratings are down like negative,
like he's down to a negative four percent in terms
of like he's down negative points in terms of life
(52:00):
his career. So it's not like they're going up. That's
the thing that I'm actually happy about, So that his
approval ratings are not going up, there actually dwindling, And
I don't know what that means. And so if there
are any polyside girls out there who listen to this
podcast and they want to talk to you know, they
kind of want to send a note about, you know,
how we should be looking at these numbers or how
we should be kind of engaging them. I would love that.
(52:21):
But for the most part, I'm just really happy that
I hope that that man gets what's coming to him,
and I hope, I hope it's justice. I hope it's law.
I hope it's all the things that he keeps skirting around,
and so that just makes it really happy. Now for
my no man, Pam, I will say this, I want
to make this very clear that yes, I was at
Coachella for work. I am working. I'll just say this
(52:43):
is kind of a quick shout out. They are not
paying me to say this, but I work with the
Never a Bother campaign, and the Never a Bother campaign
is basically what for those of you who don't know,
Never Bother is a mental health program for you to
remind you that they are never a bother when when
they want to talk about their mental health, when they
(53:04):
want to talk about issues that are happening, they're not
a bother. And so being that I worked for a
youth organization we've partnered with them and they brought They
were the ones who brought me to Coachella to talk
about how I navigate my mental health and how music
has basically helped me. Now, I will say this, the
work and the panel was fantastic. I had a blast.
I was able to get in. They gave me a
(53:25):
VIP ticket. I was able to get into the VIP area.
I was able to get some food. I was able
to see Tea Pain perform, which I thought was an
absolutely fantastic set. From top to bottom, there was a
whole like steampunk, kind of like retro, not retro. What's
the word? What is that? That movie? I can see it,
(53:45):
but I can't say it. The people that live out
in the dirt. What's the name of that movie? Do
you know what I'm talking about?
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Done?
Speaker 1 (53:52):
No, No, there's another one. They live out in the
dirts and they it's very very it's futuristic, but it's
all so like the world has fallen. If y'all can
figure out what the name of that movie is, please
let us know. Anyway, there's a movie out anyway. It
was very much giving, like we're out in the desert
and we're having a good time in the desert, and
that's what I loved about it. My problem was the
(54:15):
actual foundation of Coachella, like just like to get anywhere.
It is so massive and there's just so many people,
and there's just so like the pricing of everything is
so high, and it's just like I don't comprehend, like
why would someone want then? Like then I found out
(54:35):
that there were people who can't there, Like why would
you want to spend money to sleep outside at a
campground for a festival? Like it just none of it,
None of it makes sense to me, And so I
just I and maybe this is the elitism that lives
in me. I just kept thinking to myself as I
was there, like why would someone subject themselves to this?
That was the only thing I kept saying the whole
(54:57):
time that I was like, why would you subject yourself
to this? So I think for me, my biggest thing
is also too. I saw someone and post something on
on threads which I thought was really good. They were
saying how they had gone They had been going to
Coachella since maybe like early two thousand and six, two
thousand and seven, and they were saying, the heart of
Coachella has died. Because of because of capitalism. Basically, they
(55:20):
were saying, like, it doesn't feel like the way that
the original musical, the way the festival should have, It
doesn't feel like what it was intended for. And I
had responded and I said, that's a big reason why
I stopped going to Pride, because Pride just started to
feel like instead of it being like, Hey, I'm with
all my queer folks and we're celebrating, it felt like
(55:41):
Budweiser and felt like IHP, and it felt like TiSER
and it felt it just it felt like it was
too many, like the soul of the event was gone,
you know for me, And that's how I feel out
a lot of the Prides I go to. So that's
why I don't go. But yeah, I feel like I
felt that as I was at Coachella and I'm looking
around and it's kind of like you just see people
coming in, but I'm like, there's no heart. It's just
(56:03):
everyone's there to be an influencer. Everyone's there to be
seen and be noticed, and it's not about like it's
not about truly being at the festival for me. And
so that's just my big ride. That's that's my big
millennial rite about Coachella. But anyway, what's your guest man
and no Manpam?
Speaker 2 (56:21):
You know I do. I was telling my remainer earlier day.
I was like, I do could We're both saying like damn,
this is the ye. We both kind of like we
kind of like we actually missed out.
Speaker 3 (56:28):
You should be like whow we ever go?
Speaker 2 (56:29):
Like we got of messed out. But I said to her,
I was like, I do wonder what Coachilla was like
before social media. Imagine it was popular and big, but
like you're right, but like like maybe it was maybe
it was like more people, like there's more folks who
are from so Calvers like around the country or around
the world. I want to kind of artists they had,
like did they were they still big artists at that
time or not? Like I had so many questions like
(56:50):
what was Coachella before because it's this huge. It's this huge, right,
like what to people who are older ago and now
it's like only the like a young kids that go
Ortho obways say I do have questions about that. I
will say couch Chilla was it hit for me this
year as in but I loved watching I loved watching
(57:13):
the live stream.
Speaker 3 (57:15):
I love the sensibility of it all.
Speaker 2 (57:17):
And I will say I watched DJ Mustard's performance, which
like dim just having this moment right, But like y'all understand,
I've been on must I've been on Mustard for years,
like must my favorite DJs. Okay, mister mister Djon, that's
actually Jeon, my favorite DJs, and.
Speaker 4 (57:36):
Like, oh, that's okay, DJ Mustard because his name is
his name is that his name is actually Djon and
so DJ Dijon Mustard esscually Mustard.
Speaker 2 (57:49):
But like I, y'all don't realize how long his body
of his catlog is of work until you hear the
set and you're like bitch like and it's just like
it's straight bops right, like he he comes out first
song as Racks City, Tiger Pop Taga pops out and
raps Racks City, right, you get you get Big Sean
(58:09):
coming out, you get YG like he he does MC hustle. Right.
People are like cold Back could be back in some
ways some some cases like but like like raps, like
some of the raps, like you know, biggest New age
people he's produced for. You know, he he brought LM
A who I love very much like. It was sort
(58:30):
of like I was hype the entire time, like as
you should. I was like I was being I was
like popping off and the moment I was like, bitch,
if I was there, I've been fucking it up the
whole time, I would be like throwing it back on.
Everybody might put me on stage, bitch, like let me
put me in the booth like it would been.
Speaker 3 (58:48):
It was everything, So that was as well too. I
really enjoyed that I did.
Speaker 2 (58:54):
I'm sad that I missed Tea Pains, so I'm hoping
the able to catch it this weekend.
Speaker 3 (58:58):
Te Pains and Missy Elliots. I want to see those,
I do.
Speaker 1 (59:01):
Yeah, no, man, Pam, I want to see miss.
Speaker 2 (59:06):
I heard that was also, I mean expectaly, people said
it was incredible. The acts this year did seem like
they were the best acts they've had a long time.
My no, man, Pam. I just want to know who
orchestrated that flight, that space flight, who chose the people.
(59:27):
I had no idea this is happening. My good my
good girl, on My Good Girl, Auntie Gail looked stressed
the entire time for her until I saw her, Until
I saw her interview and was like this will take
all the waste and have you been bitch? I have
not been. I can't be because I'm broke, Like you're
Gail King. Of course you got to go and bitch
(59:49):
and a no offense gale. And so today you also
have not been condown it right space and asking acting
brand new, being like this is the divine thing? Then, girl,
what is space? Calm down? Also even paid for a
girl like.
Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
Just Katie, what what?
Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
What? What? What a lot?
Speaker 5 (01:00:11):
Girl?
Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
She she said, let me have my moment because I
won't have many more left. Girl. It's just it's just
made me like I was like, what career wise, your
career is not her life?
Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
Career wise? Yeah, I want to clarify. I'm not saying
she's dying.
Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
I'm saying her career is her career. But yeah, like
that just looked wild. Okay, why don't they have more
actual scientists?
Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
I just have I have paguntas.
Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
I'm about that this isn't him to the entire thing,
and like you will not make space flight fun for me, girl,
And like, let's be honest, I.
Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
Don't want to be girl like you came up and
came right back down.
Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
What will that do for me?
Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
When if they were there for me, right, if they
were there for two or three days, then I would
have said, oh, okay, that's cool, like they went through
the full thing to do what they needed to do
to be up there for two to three days. But
you were there for ten minutes, like you.
Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
Came up, came right down. Yeah, wow, physics go off
like Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
I don't know. I just said none of it, none
of it.
Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
I'm hearing girls that you can't be sustained and you
can't be sustained. Okay, Well that gives me nothing image,
does it? So anyways, no, mmeham to all them.
Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
And can we just also know that Mama took a
minute to try to like plug her tour set while
she was out there. Did you see her with that
little star thing that she put in the camera?
Speaker 3 (01:01:35):
Bitch?
Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
She put butterflies, she puts this girl.
Speaker 3 (01:01:38):
Yeah, this girl.
Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Okay, listen, at the very least Katy was at least
living her best life on that because these bitches are
trying like look like look at earth and she's just
out here like girl not.
Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
She was not.
Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
She was not there for the ride to all. She
was not there to watch Earth.
Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
She was like, I'm there for plug my tour.
Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
I need the sales.
Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
I need you to buy these tickets to this concert
because my career is doing. And now she's in the
same right, she's in the sand Kitty Cats, and now
she's in the same box as Jennifer Lopez. Like her
and Jennifer Lopez have been getting their ass handed to
them in the last couple of weeks. So it's it
(01:02:25):
is what it is.
Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
When you do new do you want out like a clown?
Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
The circus comes down.
Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Hong Kong, baby girl, That's what happens.
Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
This Oh no circus service, my god. Anyway, it's time
for us to arrive, So please send us your thoughts.
See that an email to blackfatfelmpod at gmail dot com.
You can also send us your thoughts via social media
by interacting with our posts on Instagram, Twitters, and also
Blue Sky by using the handle black fatfem Pod Joho.
Where can the dolls find you?
Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
My sweet? I'm like, what would what would my if
I fandom? What what would my name be?
Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
Like my hose Like just like my Joe Ho, the Joes,
my Johes, my Hoe Jeho Daniels across all socials. You
will not find me in space. Believe that you will
find me on my couch for all of Couchello weekend too,
because I ain't got to go. I ain't got to
(01:03:32):
go to no desert to go see some acts unless.
Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
Right right, and I will and if I get it
and if it, if it works out, trust me, you
will be the first girl I call.
Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Unless yes, I talk mad ship, but girl, give given
the right moment, Okay, change it real.
Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Quick, amen, Amen, Amen, I know that's right. Well. As
for me and as for my I'm gonna call mine
the pollies, if the pollies, those would those would be
the po the pollies because I'm doctor John Paul and
so the pollies.
Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
So if you likes.
Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
O, l y the colleges, Okay, yes, yes, it's it's yes, yes, Polly,
live for it.
Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
As for me and mine, you can find me over
down to w W dot Doctor John Paul dot com.
You can also find me all over social media promoting
my book. We are in the third fourth week of
of well, I think we're getting into the fourth week
of my We're getting close to the to a full
month of my book being out. I've been posting everywhere
about all of the successes. I have a story getting
(01:04:45):
ready to come out with another big media media place
about the book and the work. So I'm just really happy,
like my little my little baby, I call her the
Book that Could, the little Book that Could. She is
doing so much and I'm just so happy and so
proud of us. So yeah, if you want to know
more about my book, head over to my website WWU
dot doct John Paul dot com. I've been telling people
buy the book from Barnes and Noble. If you are
(01:05:07):
actively boycotting Amazon, that's totally okay. You can also get
your book at any of your local local book dealers
or publishers, whatever you want to call them. And then
also too, I have been telling people tell if you
don't have the money to buy the book, make sure
you go to your local library and request the book.
That's a great and an easy way for you to
(01:05:27):
be able to get access to the book without actually
having to break the bank. So yeah, that's pretty much
it for me and where I am. All right, y'all.
We want to also thank our producer Bai Wang for
handling all the logistics that come with this show. Thank you, babe,
you do an amazing job. And everyone over at iHeartMedia
for hitting the show up and running. My god, people,
(01:05:49):
I tell people a good podcast takes a lot of work,
and logistics is everything. So thank you, thank you, thank you,
thank you everybody. And also, I'm sure y'all probably notice,
if you've made it this far on the show, you've
noticed that my sound is different. I don't have my mic.
I'm sorry about that. I wanted to apologize front, but
I'm on the road, and so you know, it's better
(01:06:09):
than no chef. That's how I see it. It's better
than I can Okay, okay, but.
Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
That being said to me, we have went to trial
today for y'all.
Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
Were close to calling it. We were this close to
staying y'all just gonna get a repeat next week. But
here we are. We made it. We did at y'all.
We dead at y'all. With that being said, we want
to thank our wonderful editor, Chris Rogers, because without him,
we wouldn't have no audio. My god, Chris, you're going
(01:06:39):
We're gonna have to work some magic this week. But
we love that. We love you, we appreciate you. So
much the house down, Boots, and we also appreciate you
for doing the visuals down to the tubes of you.
And if you have a subscribe, honey, go over there
get your free content, girl, because we don't know how
long that content might be for you or even if
we'll be free because of the way the world is going.
(01:06:59):
My god, this has been another show, say black, fat, fine,
fabulous and remember what Joe ho.
Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
We may not be a cup of tea, but girl,
cloth that guy child and get some liquid IV you
probably anyways.
Speaker 6 (01:07:15):
Not cak b good my god, cock the tea, says Cock.
Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
With that being said, have a great night everybody. Thank
you for listening. I love us for real.
Speaker 7 (01:07:25):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
By
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