January 26, 2024 • 37 mins
On this episode, Hannah Elliott and Matt Miller welcome champion off-road racer Emily Miller to the show to discuss her life and work in the drivers seat at the world's most grueling races: the Baja 1000, King of the Hammers, and the Gazelle Rally in Morocco, to name a few. And they discuss what it takes to become a great off-road driver. They also discuss Porsche's first electric Macan SUV and Matt's surprising love of the Jaguar F-Pace SVR.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
I'm Matt Miller, I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Thanks so much for joining us again on another episode
of Hot Pursuit. I will start out at the top
this time and remind you can email us. Hannah, what's
the email address.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
It's Hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net. It's Hot Pursuit
at Bloomberg dot net. B E R G an et.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
And we do at least I respond.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
So yeah, oh, we will email you back if you're
not spam.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We'll take your questions seriously, and suggestions are always welcome.
I want to just run through what we're going to
talk about today quickly, because it's not much beyond our
interview with Emily Miller of the Rebel Rally. She of
King of the Hammers and so many other rally firsts
for women. Very cool and the whole queen. Yeah. Absolutely,
(00:58):
But we also have a new portche to talk about
right coming, and an old Jag to talk about that I.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
New Porsha, old Jag.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yes, let's kick it off quickly with the new Porsche
because the news broke this week.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
The electric Macon is out. Porsche has announced it will
be arriving halfway through the year in twenty twenty four,
and we do have some specs and numbers on it.
It's exciting. I mean it's like maybe a couple years late.
I mean, this is only we've been waiting forever. Well,
this is only Porscha's second all electric vehicle and it's
been ten years since we saw the first Macon, the
(01:32):
combustion engine mccon come out. So yeah, it's I'd say
it's about time.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, I think it's very cool. I love the sort
of tall station wagon package of these SUVs or crossovers
or overs or whatever you want to call them. And
I think the Macon has been a laggard in its class.
It doesn't have a V eight and this is kind
of an equalizer electric electrification.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
I think it will be very interesting to see how
it does. Of course, Macon is a great selling vehicle
for Portie and second only to the Cayenne last year,
I believe. And this new Macon, the electric one, is
boasting over six hundred horse power, which is considerably more
than the Macons that we see that are in the
four hundred range. It's a lot heavier than the combustion
(02:22):
engine Macons. It weighs over five thousand pounds, so it's heavier,
more horsepower, same towing capacity about forty four hundred towing
capacity range, and we have yet to see full EPA
numbers on how efficient it's going to be and mileage.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
But yeah, I mean, if it goes the way it's
been going, it'll be not as much range as a Tesla,
but probably way more fun to drive. And neither of
them will come close to the kind of range that
Chevy and GM are giving us in their electric vehicles,
but they have gigantic battery packs. I wonder the electric
(03:01):
Maccon is really interesting and I can't wait to see it.
We don't really know enough about it yet obviously won't
be able to drive it for a long time. I
wonder your take on the segment in general, mccons, and
also the Kayen. And why does Porsche, which has famed
for a flat six, put a super boring V six
motor in these like why not at least drive a
(03:24):
Macon with a boxer engine.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I don't know. I never understood that it has to
come down to money, right, Yeah, I mean it has
to come down to efficiencies of scale and also sharing
within within the family, within the group, within the Volkswagen group.
It has to come down to that. I have to
believe that. But it is difficult to really feel an
(03:48):
emotional draw to these SUVs, even though they are Porsche's, yes,
and they do sell well and we need them, you know,
to pay for other vehicles that are being made.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I drove a car this week that I think blows
away the Macan or Audi, BMW, Mercedes, any other sort
of small suv, and that is the Jaguar F Pace SVR.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
That's a car I haven't thought about in a long time.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I haven't even really thought about the brand, to be honest,
in so long. I mean, they went from these really
cool XJ sixes and you know, the XK twelve to
to kind of nothing after they went from Ford to Tata.
I think the cars they released were boring. It was
(04:39):
cool that Idris Elbow was driving one, but otherwise I've.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Been watching reruns of The Wire. I mean, Idris Elba
is always cool.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yeah, I mean, I guess the the F type itself
was exciting for a moment, and then I didn't really
think about that either, and this just showed up in
my driveway it's got the supercharged five liters V eight
that they I think developed even before FOR bought them.
But that's like that's the that's their flat six, you know.
And it sounds better than any other small or large
(05:09):
suv crossover that I've driven, including the Maserati Gricalai Trofeo,
and Maseratis typically do really well on the sound. That's
also only a six cylinder, so this is the only
I think supercharged V eight aside from its kind of
sister land Rover Range Rover Sport right, that you can get.
And it's so kind of understated. I didn't even really
(05:32):
notice it in my driveway, but when you get behind
the wheel, it's just a beast.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Why do you think we are not thinking about that
as an option?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I think the design is boring, frankly. I mean you
could look at it as elegant and understated, or you
could say it's boring and not special. But everything in
the cabin I thought was really well done. It's perfectly
laid out. It's not interesting, but it's just very very good.
And I wonder if that's just Jaguar has, at least
(06:04):
in my lifetime, never really pushed the limits, right They
it wasn't a sports car, but it was like a
big Grand Tour. The V twelve was big and luxurious,
but not fast.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, Jaguar to me suffers from a little bit of
an identity crisis because it's like, if you want very
futuristic technology, you go to Mercedes. If you want super
sporty performance, you go to Porsche. If you want, you know,
the ultimate driving machine, you got BMW. So you have
these like very strong brand identities. And if you ask
(06:36):
me what Jaguar means right now, I don't really know.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, I don't know. They could just never really grow.
They did have like an interesting history. They had a
lot of race wins. I think at Lamon they had
a really cool six cylinder engine that they developed first,
then the twelve. The XJS has these flying buttresses on
the back.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Of the amazing design. I love an I love driving
the E type. I love the old ones, even the
two plus two that looks a little bit awkward, it's great.
And of course like the D type, just like you
say it has.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
With the big kind of section behind the drive head.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
This is a blue chip type vehicle. But yeah, in
terms of the modern day, it feels like they haven't
leveraged that somehow.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
All Right, well, I guess that's enough sort of uh
mini suv crossover.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Talk for now. We don't want to overdose because we.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Have an awesome interview with a woman who is in
a sense a pioneer in uh in racing, but it's
rally racing. And yeah, not just behind the wheel, but
also behind the scenes, like she has run some of
these events and won some of these events.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, a lot of the events. I mean, Emily Miller,
I think is one of the most decorated off road
racers period, male or female, and has been involved in
this for decades, really making things happen. The first woman
to drive solo and Emily tell me, you know, as
I roll through your credit credits if I get these
(08:06):
wrong or need to embellish them, but the first woman
to drive solo from Vegas to Reno off road correct.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, I was in the Vegas to Reno off road race.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
And I mean, you have numerous podium finishes and wins
to your credit, including the Baja one thousand. Emily started
the Rebel Rally, which I have to say I've participated
in it and it was the best run car event.
I have ever been involved with or been around period
in terms of logistics, people planning, total organization. And of
(08:38):
course Emily has been so instrumental in King of the
Hammers as well, and I definitely want to talk about
that too. I know you've had some changes lately regarding
your involvement, but I mean, talk about someone who's been
involved in off roading for decades and has seen it
from a lot of different perspective.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Why don't we just start with how you got started?
What did you what got you into this?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Sure, you know it's a great story. I was. I
grew up loving cars. You know, I had a dad
that you know, I loved dearly, spent so much time
with when it came to cars. And you know, from
growing up reading reading car magazines next to the fire
at night, wondering why there were no women who were
(09:21):
reviewing cars when I was a little kid, you know,
I found those old stacks of Road and Track and
Car and Driver and to I own a sports marketing
company and one of the things that I was doing
is I was working with the Tourism Authority, one of
the toursm authorities in Nevada, and I was at a
(09:43):
meeting at the Hara Car Collection the National Auto Museum,
and you know, it's a great collection. And I was
in this meeting of the board members and I met
this guy named Rod Hall. And Rod Hall was one
of the most winning offered races in the history of
the sport. He had the longest unbroken race win string,
(10:06):
which is thirty five straight race wins. He was the
only person to race every single Baja one thousand for
fifty years and won his last I think it was
twenty four times, first American to finish the Dakhar rally.
You know. So he's this legend. And I got to
know Rod, and you know, I at the time was
(10:28):
producing some really tough to produce events for companies such
as Red Bull. You know, they always have the great
wild idea, and you know, I got to know him,
and he taught me how to drive. And one day
we are on our way to a meeting and he said, hey,
I have my new driver. He was driving for General
Motors at the time. He had driven for Dodge, for Ford,
(10:52):
and for Hummer and General Motors. And he said I
have my new driver. And I said, great, who is it?
And he said it's you and I thought. He meant, Okay,
you're going to take these cars and you're going to
gorilla market them, you know at the events. You do
you know, I didn't quite understand. And he said, look,
you know I can teach you how to drive, you're
(11:13):
going to have to learn how to win. And you know,
I got to see Baja from you know, driving with him,
you know, hearing all his old stories to the back
roads of California and Nevada and all over to Australia,
and you know, he came and supported me when I
was competing in Africa, and you know, I had this
(11:34):
incredible mentor that so many people don't get. So I
feel like I had so many incredible lessons fast tracked
for me. I mean, my the first time I actually
drove in the Baha one thousand, Rod was sitting in
the right seat, you know, and we jump in and
he goes, I don't think I've ever sat in this
seatore and you know, talking about pressure. But you know
(11:56):
what was so great is I got to learn from
a legend. And you know he also had he had
a really great statement that really resonated and really helped
me because you know, I own a marketing company and
production company. And he said, look, it's really really hard
to be a pro driver. You know, only a few
(12:16):
people will make it. You know a lot of drivers
out there are paying their way, et cetera. He said,
but what you can do with your race experience and
your experience on the other side of what you do,
you can combine too for great business. And that was
really good advice. I was fortunate I got to be
(12:37):
a demo driver and then eventually run his program for
BEF Good Richard Michelin where we coached and trained people
throughout the year and that was a great experience. So
that's where it started from and came from. And then I,
you know, really worked hard to take those lessons and
apply them across the industry. And I love that. It's
(13:02):
a long version.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
I just want to I just want to reiterate. So
Rod Hall was in fifty straight, fifty consecutive Baja one
thousand races and he had class wins in twenty five
of them. So he had, at least, at his passing
in twenty nineteen, the most desert off road race wins
of any human right, that's crazy, yes, And he was.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Also the only person who has won the overall in
a stock four by four.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Wow, and that was Bronco Wow.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
And that feet hasn't been reproduced. So, you know, just
such a legend, you know, to learn from someone like that,
you know, I just kind of I still have to.
I always go back and say thanks to Rod, you know,
for bringing me into this space. You know, I was
back in the ski and mountain bike world, you know,
(13:55):
and cycling world, and you know, he just said, hey,
you know, all those skills translate, but they translate to
four wheels.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I was going to ask you, you know, did he
ever tell you what did he see in you? Emily
that let him know this person is really someone who's
going to be receptive to what I have to teach her.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Yeah, he sure did. And I also pass that lesson
along to other people because I think it's really important.
First of all, I never give up. I hate to
give up. I work really hard. I love being on
a team, and I am coachable. I don't believe I
(14:36):
have all the answers. I don't believe I know it all.
And I also always believe that we can keep learning.
And he said, that's what it takes. You know, you
have to never give up. And he also said that
you know, sometimes you have to break bad habits and
drivers and you have to be able to leave your
ego at the door and say, you know, I'm not
(14:57):
the best at this. You know I need to work
on things. And so he just said. You know, that
really made him comfortable to take that time, because you know,
he said. One of the things he said to me
in the first days is he said, we're going to
go train for Vegas Tono. He goes, that's the first
race I want you to do. And he said, if
(15:17):
you can't learn how to left foot break in an hour,
this will be over.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
No pressure.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Yeah, no pressure, he goes, I won't have time to
fix all the things that you're going to break if
you can't left foot break. So he goes, you have
an hour.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
So part of it is about acquiring those skills, it's learned.
Part of it must be innate, right because I've noticed
so many people who are better drivers than me or
better motorcycle riders are better in fist fights, which hasn't
I haven't been involved in a fist fight since like
elementary school. But they just have a lack of fear
in a way I can't give nine tenths on a
(15:57):
track because I'm afraid I'll crash, and the best have
to be willing to take that risk to some extent,
isn't it true?
Speaker 3 (16:03):
That is true. I think it's a little bit different
in different forms of racing. Let's say stock driving a
stock car off road a stock truck is different than
driving let's say a trophy truck or a t one
car because you do I mean, you just have to
put it out all on the line, you know, on
the track. I believe it's true. You know you're a
(16:24):
laguna seka and you need to late break. You need
to late break going into turn two into the Andretti hairpin,
and you've got to be willing to pretty much put
it into the wall and you could die. And so
there is some of that.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Now.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
That's what I think the reason why I probably excel
more at endurance because I would actually like to live
and endurance racing in a stock manufacturer vehicle is a
little different. It really means that you can go out
and you have enough time to be smart. You don't
want to lose time, but you don't want to waste
(17:03):
time by crashing, breaking or flatting and so you can
have a little bit of self preservation. But when you
get into these unlimited classes, yeah, that lack of fear,
you know, not worrying about family at home, et cetera.
I think that's important. So I think that people can
(17:23):
really excel if they find in automotive or in competing,
if they find the type of racing that works for
their strengths. And what's great about automotive and competing is
that there are enough different classes and cars and things
like that that you can find your niche.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I was just going to ask you, you know, for
people who may not be familiar with these different names,
we're just tossing off like Baja one thousand and King
of the Hammers and Rebel tell us a little bit
specifically about the Rebel Rally. I know this is really
for me. This was how I got to know you
and know about you. Obviously, you know, I know that
you finished really high in the Gazelle Rally Morocco Gazelle.
(18:07):
Rebel tell us about the Rebel Rally and what kind
of driving and talent and skill that specifically demands for
the people who are really successful.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yes, and actually I would say that the Rebel Rally
is actually a product of the things that Rod taught
me and the things that I felt were missing and
that Rod felt was missing in the space of off
road and for manufacturers. So the Rebel Rally is the
longest competitive off road rally in the United States. It
(18:39):
is for stock manufacturer vehicles, and it's a competition for points,
not fastest speed. And it is designed it is truly
for stock manufactured vehicles, not unlimited race cars. So you
can enter in a car in a four x four
or what we call x cross, which is more like
crossover class or an all wheel drive class. We call it.
(19:00):
We think it sounds cooler than crossover. But that event
is ten days. It's eight days of competition. It is
ten hour stages per day, although some people are out
there fourteen fifteen hours a day, not on purpose.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Not on purpose correct, Yes.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
And it's based on traditional navigation, so we say it's
precision driving and precision navigating, and it is based on
two types of challenges. Those two types are in duro
challenges which are traditional like regularity roadbook stages where you
have to be very accurate on arriving on time to
waigh points, whether they are mark they're always marked, but
(19:43):
whether there you can guess where they are, you know,
on the roadbook, or whether they're sort of hidden controls.
The other type of challenge, which makes up a lot
of the bulk of the points is map and compass.
So there's no GPS, there's no cell phones, you don't
get your cell phone at night. You're cut off for
eight days. Extreme and you are traditionally navigating and sometimes
(20:06):
those stages, you know, they can be four hundred kilometers
in a day navigating with a compass and a map
and some maybe from book sections. Yeah, so it's not
like these like stages where half the stage is just
getting to the next point. It's like the whole day
is a stage. So really demanding the checkpoints, we made
(20:28):
our own scoring system. We wanted at highest points, not
lowest points traditional and rally, which is lowest points highest
points is to push people to kind of go for
that hail married pass, you know, so you're not just
falling off the back and collecting penalties like you normally do.
And rally and they're rated like a ski run green,
blue and black dimond checkpoints and you know I come
(20:51):
from you know, an outdoor world ski cycling world, so
that scoring system of green, blue and black dime in
checkpoints really appeals to a lot of people. Yeah, it
makes sense. And you know black time in checkpoint isn't
even marked. You have to use triangulation, heading and distance
to nail a checkpoint within and it scored like a bullseye.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
And this is out in the middle of nowhere with
no context for anything at all.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Yeah, absolutely, you know, And how do you get found
when you get lost? You know, you really have to
dig down deep and it is a really tough challenge.
It happens to be all women, and I always say
it happened.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
I did not know that.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yeah, and that's the thing, you know, like it's sixty
percent of our audience, you know, our men, and they
all want to do it. But I wanted to build
a world class car rally for stock manufacturer vehicles that
we can drive at our dealerships. And then I wanted
it to be for women because you know, when I
(21:55):
was racing, I was usually one of the only women.
And now there are a lot more women in race
and it's great and I love seeing it. But people
say there are so many women in racing, and I
still go two percent of the veiel. Yeah, well we're
fifty percent of the drivers. You know, we have such
a profound impact on purchasing of vehicles. Why are we
(22:18):
still one to three percent of the competitive field.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
That is awesome? Yeah, you know what I'm by the
way I'm looking at the website is really cool because
it has a sweet video sort of montage of the competitions.
I guess past and you see participants. Obviously a lot
of Jeeps. I recognize Broncos straight away and Defenders, but
I also saw a Rivian, I see Hyundai's you know,
(22:46):
so there are maybe marks that you might not expect.
Are there vehicles that typically win? Do jeeps typically take
the top? Or is it more about, you know, the
driver and the navigator than it is the machine.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
It is the most about the driver and the navigator
and their talent. However, Jeep holds the top rank of
number of lens and to tell you the truth, the
highest number of wins. We're in bone stock jeeps that
were not modified fair and which is really cool. This year,
the Rivian R one t won it and Rivian actually
(23:24):
debuted their first truck off the production line in the
Rebel Rally. Four years ago. We're going into our fifth year.
We really worked hard to pioneer remote, rapid sustainable power
on course. This year actually we powered the evs with
green hydrogen.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Wow, that was.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Made from solar and wind thanks to renewable innovations. I mean,
we've worked hard to build a proving ground for vehicles
that you can buy regardless of your powertrain.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
That is cool. I see a Ford mockey.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
So yeah, Yeah, I wanted to say, you know, what
have you noticed changing over the years in terms of
the visibility of this kind of race and the involvement
from manufacturers and just the amount of money for sponsorships,
advertising marketing. Tell us a little bit about how the
industry and the off roading culture has grown since you joined.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah, and you know, I can speak to Rebel and
I can and this is also indicative of what's going on,
you know in places especially like King of the Hammers.
So what we've seen in Rebel, which is really exciting
is the number of manufacturers involved. It's the one competition
where you can compete in an unmodified manufactured vehicle that
(24:46):
you purchase and you can win, and it is eight
days and it just proves how durable. I always say, like,
the vehicle in our driveway is more capable than we think.
And you have all this money and research in time
that's been spent to test these vehicles, and so you know,
(25:06):
even whether you're in a race car or you're in
a stock car from the dealership, you can only drive
it up to the level as a driver that it
is capable of. And that's what you're trying to do
without breaking it in the rebel. Whether you're in a
stock car, whether you're in the baham On thousand or
the King of the Hammers in an unlimited car, you're
(25:27):
trying to drive it to the level of its capability.
So what I've seen is that I think last year,
I believe we had eleven or ten major vehicle manufacturers
that supported programs. For example, Toyota put in the limit
of the manufacturer limit of what you can put in.
They put in six teams, and they put in female
(25:49):
engineers from different divisions of manufacturing, R and D, fuel Cell,
you know, Kelty. From their part, it was amazing. And
you know, we have Rivian they put in three teams.
They started out putting in journalists and that usually seems
to be the logical way. And then now it's been
(26:12):
so effective to test their vehicles, improve their vehicles, and
also to build the teamwork in leadership and you know,
grit skills of their employees. So Rivian put in three
teams of engineers wow and won the rally. And you know,
so that is what I've seen is a change. We
have new I believe we already have three new manufacturers.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Who are the new ones. Oh I can't say they,
you know, haven't been announced yet that are in the rally.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
For this year. The other thing that I'm seeing that
is a really interesting change is that they are supporting
you know, I look at Forward, I look at these
companies and they are putting in women in these vehicles,
not as a token, here's what we do for women.
(27:03):
It's because they believe in the rally, the platform, and
they believe in the women. And they're not they don't
aren't necessarily professional racers. They're women who've shown that they're
great drivers, great navigators, great competitors. And they're sponsoring and
supporting women who aren't the stereotypical women in racing. And
(27:28):
so it's giving a lot of opportunity to women who
would normally you know who don't have five million followers,
or you know, are the one personality and a certain
sector of racing.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Zoom out and talk to me about the whole culture
of King of the Hammers. Rebel Baha. I didn't know
about King of the Hammers until Hannah. I saw Hanna's
story on the Bloomberg. But since I saw her story,
a lot more people have been doing stories on it
and it's been getting bigger and bigger. Do you see
that in the industry in general? Is it just growing?
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Yes? It was interesting. I was involved with King of
the Hammers for thirteen years and the reason why I
can actually do this podcast right now is because I'm
not actually out on the lake bed, but cheering them
on remotely as I planned my adventure to go explore
off road the South Island of New Zealand. But what
I have to say is I worked really hard along
(28:32):
with the team at King of the Hammers to build
a place that people could go that weren't really represented
in racing and King of the Hammers. It's similar. People
want to do things, you know, they don't want to
just watch, they want to do. And what I have
seen also with let's say King of the Hammers is
(28:55):
that it started out as a place that the journalists,
the media, they wouldn't come to, they wouldn't cover there was.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
That is it because we didn't understand it or was
too obscure?
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Yeah, you know it was obscure. You know, there's not
a five star hotel there, There's not you know, it
is rock, it's raw, and people thought it was just
slow rock crawling. And when you get to King of
the Hammers and the reason why I got involved, I
was driving and sponsored by BFG at the time, and
(29:31):
I came out and I saw Brad Level and I saw,
you know, went out with Rod and we saw this
action and I saw these guys racing, and I went,
are you kidding me? This is the coolest action I
have ever seen in off road or really outside of
F one, you know, standing at an F one track,
(29:52):
it is the best thing I've ever seen. Cars flipping over,
flipping over, landing on their wheels and continuing on not broken,
you know. I mean, it was like, oh my gosh,
this is crazy and people want to see that. And
I thought it was the most entertaining thing I'd seen.
And then I watched I got involved, and you know,
(30:13):
Dave Cole, who owns King of the Hammers, had very
good vision of what he wanted it to be, and
we said, let's go make it happen. And what I
think we did is we celebrated not just the top
racers that were winning. We celebrated every last person that
showed up and crossed that finish line and built this
(30:35):
place that was like mecca. You know, this this destination,
this burning Man type of event for off roaders that
didn't exist where you watched some other races and you
only saw the top one, two or three, the big
money teams. And what King of the Hammers is about
is about innovation. Build it. You know, it started from
(30:56):
unlimited racing. If you can innovate, build whatever you think
you can build to win this thing. And what's happened
over time. They started slow and now there are cars
that can climb up sheer cliffs like this descend, but
then they can also drive one hundred and thirty miles
per hour in the desert to string together the trails.
(31:19):
And what it's done is it spawned this innovation that
now you know, it celebrated the little the person, the
little guy you know, and and woman in the garage
with a welder. Then when I can make this stronger,
I can make this better. And now what you've seen,
especially with King of the Hammers, and I've seen it
(31:41):
there more than in any other type of off road racing,
is that it has spurred the most innovation in the
aftermarket and even in the mainstream market. You know, jeeps
now have disconnecting sway bars.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
You know, so cool, and yeah, I'm curious. It's it's
so I mean, when you see the pictures, it is
like Burning Man meets Mad Max. And I think if
you're not you recognize it's cool. But if you're not
really looped in, it can be really intimidating to try
to think it even about becoming involved or even just
(32:14):
going out to watch. So what do you advise people
who say, I know this is cool, I really want
to be a part of it, and I just want
to see it or even try it. What's the best
way to do that?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing is is
if you can't get there this year, watch live. So
there's a great live webcast. And that's what we did
early on, is we committed to live webcasting so everyone
could see it around the world. Watch the live webcast.
The thing that's different about King of the Hammers now
is it truly is an off road festival, so there's
something for everyone. I think everybody's favorite race is the
(32:49):
Class eleven Volkswagens, you know, the stock bugs. You know,
everybody loves that and that didn't exist before. So watch
the live webcast, watch all the races, and you're going
to learn about the cars, the rules, the mods. You're
going to meet the teams, and then that can kind
of help you find maybe that category that you fit into.
(33:12):
There's UTV, there's extreme and Duro motorcycle racing. There's Class eleven,
there's fourteen hundred. There is what's called the Everyman Challenge,
you know, and that's for the person who has like
that modified four wheel drive vehicle but not the unlimited
cars for the which launched it. So find that place
(33:35):
and that type of racing that you like, and then
I would actually reach out to the teams. I think
that's really what's great about off road, you know, and
you guys know what it's like when you walk into
a pit in let's say, on track racing. Certain times
of track racing at a high level. They don't want
you to see anything. They don't want you to take pictures.
(33:57):
They want you to give away the secret sauce. Go
to King of the Hammers and you actually can walk
in people's pits. You can walk into Lauren Healey's pitt,
you know who races for Ford, and look at his
car and ask him what he's doing. You know, how
do you and they'll talk to you. That's what I
(34:17):
love about the off road space is people work to
bring each other up. You know, they say rising tides,
you know all ships.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah, that's exactly right. I love that, and I think
you're right. It is a feeling of community and people
are friendly and proud and want to share what they've
built and what they're working on. It does not feel
exclusive at all.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
That's the best part. The King of the Hammers is
going on now and I guess when's the main event.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
The main event is next Saturday. So it started this
past weekend with King of the Motos. It's UTV's this
weekend and which is now the biggest race in the
highest number of vehicles along with the Everyman Challenge. Then
it goes into qualifying and then the Everyman Challenge, and
then the big final race called this the forty four
(35:08):
hundred race, the Race of Kings, and that will be
next Saturday.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
And there are thousands of people out in the desert.
I mean ten how many last year came?
Speaker 3 (35:20):
I believe the number, you know, they it tends to range.
I think the official number was put out at fifty thousand,
but when you actually look at the whole desert around it,
it's about probably seventy plus thousand people.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Small town it is.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
It can be overwhelming, but it is intense.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
You could say, yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
It's intense. They are about one hundred and forty or
so vendors. There's a big jumbo tron you know in Hammertown.
The other nice thing to go in and talk to
the vendors, go in to the pits, talk to the
race teams, you know, just go. I always, you know,
people say like, how do you start, and I always
just say, start somewhere. But if you want to be good,
(36:02):
learn from good. If you want to be great, learn
from great. And the greats are still there.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Oh that's what we're doing right now.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
They will talk to you.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Thank you so much for joining us. Real pleasure getting
to know you just a little bit, and I can't wait.
I'm going to watch Kingda Hammers this weekend and next week,
and I'll watch the Rebel Rally, which I think is
a two hundred and sixty days from two hundred and
fifty days from now. So really cool to learn about that.
Emily Miller, thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
All right, well, thanks very much for joining us. That's
going to do it for the show this week. Make
sure to join us, same time, same place next week,
and also remember that you can always send us in
suggestions or questions to our email address, which.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Is It's Hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net, or you
can reach out to us on our instagrams.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Probably Yes, I'm Matt Miller nineteen seventy three, and you are.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Anna Elliott XO two of everything to Well's two teas,
two ages, but not two x or no, just the
one of those.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Don't overdo it, got it? Thanks very much for listening.
I'm Matt Miller and
Speaker 1 (37:04):
I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Bloomberg
I'm Matt Miller, I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Thanks so much for joining us again on another episode
of Hot Pursuit. I will start out at the top
this time and remind you can email us. Hannah, what's
the email address.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
It's Hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net. It's Hot Pursuit
at Bloomberg dot net. B E R G an et.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
And we do at least I respond.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
So yeah, oh, we will email you back if you're
not spam.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We'll take your questions seriously, and suggestions are always welcome.
I want to just run through what we're going to
talk about today quickly, because it's not much beyond our
interview with Emily Miller of the Rebel Rally. She of
King of the Hammers and so many other rally firsts
for women. Very cool and the whole queen. Yeah. Absolutely,
(00:58):
But we also have a new portche to talk about
right coming, and an old Jag to talk about that I.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
New Porsha, old Jag.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yes, let's kick it off quickly with the new Porsche
because the news broke this week.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
The electric Macon is out. Porsche has announced it will
be arriving halfway through the year in twenty twenty four,
and we do have some specs and numbers on it.
It's exciting. I mean it's like maybe a couple years late.
I mean, this is only we've been waiting forever. Well,
this is only Porscha's second all electric vehicle and it's
been ten years since we saw the first Macon, the
(01:32):
combustion engine mccon come out. So yeah, it's I'd say
it's about time.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, I think it's very cool. I love the sort
of tall station wagon package of these SUVs or crossovers
or overs or whatever you want to call them. And
I think the Macon has been a laggard in its class.
It doesn't have a V eight and this is kind
of an equalizer electric electrification.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
I think it will be very interesting to see how
it does. Of course, Macon is a great selling vehicle
for Portie and second only to the Cayenne last year,
I believe. And this new Macon, the electric one, is
boasting over six hundred horse power, which is considerably more
than the Macons that we see that are in the
four hundred range. It's a lot heavier than the combustion
(02:22):
engine Macons. It weighs over five thousand pounds, so it's heavier,
more horsepower, same towing capacity about forty four hundred towing
capacity range, and we have yet to see full EPA
numbers on how efficient it's going to be and mileage.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
But yeah, I mean, if it goes the way it's
been going, it'll be not as much range as a Tesla,
but probably way more fun to drive. And neither of
them will come close to the kind of range that
Chevy and GM are giving us in their electric vehicles,
but they have gigantic battery packs. I wonder the electric
(03:01):
Maccon is really interesting and I can't wait to see it.
We don't really know enough about it yet obviously won't
be able to drive it for a long time. I
wonder your take on the segment in general, mccons, and
also the Kayen. And why does Porsche, which has famed
for a flat six, put a super boring V six
motor in these like why not at least drive a
(03:24):
Macon with a boxer engine.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I don't know. I never understood that it has to
come down to money, right, Yeah, I mean it has
to come down to efficiencies of scale and also sharing
within within the family, within the group, within the Volkswagen group.
It has to come down to that. I have to
believe that. But it is difficult to really feel an
(03:48):
emotional draw to these SUVs, even though they are Porsche's, yes,
and they do sell well and we need them, you know,
to pay for other vehicles that are being made.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I drove a car this week that I think blows
away the Macan or Audi, BMW, Mercedes, any other sort
of small suv, and that is the Jaguar F Pace SVR.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
That's a car I haven't thought about in a long time.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I haven't even really thought about the brand, to be honest,
in so long. I mean, they went from these really
cool XJ sixes and you know, the XK twelve to
to kind of nothing after they went from Ford to Tata.
I think the cars they released were boring. It was
(04:39):
cool that Idris Elbow was driving one, but otherwise I've.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Been watching reruns of The Wire. I mean, Idris Elba
is always cool.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yeah, I mean, I guess the the F type itself
was exciting for a moment, and then I didn't really
think about that either, and this just showed up in
my driveway it's got the supercharged five liters V eight
that they I think developed even before FOR bought them.
But that's like that's the that's their flat six, you know.
And it sounds better than any other small or large
(05:09):
suv crossover that I've driven, including the Maserati Gricalai Trofeo,
and Maseratis typically do really well on the sound. That's
also only a six cylinder, so this is the only
I think supercharged V eight aside from its kind of
sister land Rover Range Rover Sport right, that you can get.
And it's so kind of understated. I didn't even really
(05:32):
notice it in my driveway, but when you get behind
the wheel, it's just a beast.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Why do you think we are not thinking about that
as an option?
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I think the design is boring, frankly. I mean you
could look at it as elegant and understated, or you
could say it's boring and not special. But everything in
the cabin I thought was really well done. It's perfectly
laid out. It's not interesting, but it's just very very good.
And I wonder if that's just Jaguar has, at least
(06:04):
in my lifetime, never really pushed the limits, right They
it wasn't a sports car, but it was like a
big Grand Tour. The V twelve was big and luxurious,
but not fast.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, Jaguar to me suffers from a little bit of
an identity crisis because it's like, if you want very
futuristic technology, you go to Mercedes. If you want super
sporty performance, you go to Porsche. If you want, you know,
the ultimate driving machine, you got BMW. So you have
these like very strong brand identities. And if you ask
(06:36):
me what Jaguar means right now, I don't really know.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Yeah, I don't know. They could just never really grow.
They did have like an interesting history. They had a
lot of race wins. I think at Lamon they had
a really cool six cylinder engine that they developed first,
then the twelve. The XJS has these flying buttresses on
the back.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Of the amazing design. I love an I love driving
the E type. I love the old ones, even the
two plus two that looks a little bit awkward, it's great.
And of course like the D type, just like you
say it has.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
With the big kind of section behind the drive head.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
This is a blue chip type vehicle. But yeah, in
terms of the modern day, it feels like they haven't
leveraged that somehow.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
All Right, well, I guess that's enough sort of uh
mini suv crossover.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Talk for now. We don't want to overdose because we.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Have an awesome interview with a woman who is in
a sense a pioneer in uh in racing, but it's
rally racing. And yeah, not just behind the wheel, but
also behind the scenes, like she has run some of
these events and won some of these events.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, a lot of the events. I mean, Emily Miller,
I think is one of the most decorated off road
racers period, male or female, and has been involved in
this for decades, really making things happen. The first woman
to drive solo and Emily tell me, you know, as
I roll through your credit credits if I get these
(08:06):
wrong or need to embellish them, but the first woman
to drive solo from Vegas to Reno off road correct.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah, I was in the Vegas to Reno off road race.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
And I mean, you have numerous podium finishes and wins
to your credit, including the Baja one thousand. Emily started
the Rebel Rally, which I have to say I've participated
in it and it was the best run car event.
I have ever been involved with or been around period
in terms of logistics, people planning, total organization. And of
(08:38):
course Emily has been so instrumental in King of the
Hammers as well, and I definitely want to talk about
that too. I know you've had some changes lately regarding
your involvement, but I mean, talk about someone who's been
involved in off roading for decades and has seen it
from a lot of different perspective.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Why don't we just start with how you got started?
What did you what got you into this?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Sure, you know it's a great story. I was. I
grew up loving cars. You know, I had a dad
that you know, I loved dearly, spent so much time
with when it came to cars. And you know, from
growing up reading reading car magazines next to the fire
at night, wondering why there were no women who were
(09:21):
reviewing cars when I was a little kid, you know,
I found those old stacks of Road and Track and
Car and Driver and to I own a sports marketing
company and one of the things that I was doing
is I was working with the Tourism Authority, one of
the toursm authorities in Nevada, and I was at a
(09:43):
meeting at the Hara Car Collection the National Auto Museum,
and you know, it's a great collection. And I was
in this meeting of the board members and I met
this guy named Rod Hall. And Rod Hall was one
of the most winning offered races in the history of
the sport. He had the longest unbroken race win string,
(10:06):
which is thirty five straight race wins. He was the
only person to race every single Baja one thousand for
fifty years and won his last I think it was
twenty four times, first American to finish the Dakhar rally.
You know. So he's this legend. And I got to
know Rod, and you know, I at the time was
(10:28):
producing some really tough to produce events for companies such
as Red Bull. You know, they always have the great
wild idea, and you know, I got to know him,
and he taught me how to drive. And one day
we are on our way to a meeting and he said, hey,
I have my new driver. He was driving for General
Motors at the time. He had driven for Dodge, for Ford,
(10:52):
and for Hummer and General Motors. And he said I
have my new driver. And I said, great, who is it?
And he said it's you and I thought. He meant, Okay,
you're going to take these cars and you're going to
gorilla market them, you know at the events. You do
you know, I didn't quite understand. And he said, look,
you know I can teach you how to drive, you're
(11:13):
going to have to learn how to win. And you know,
I got to see Baja from you know, driving with him,
you know, hearing all his old stories to the back
roads of California and Nevada and all over to Australia,
and you know, he came and supported me when I
was competing in Africa, and you know, I had this
(11:34):
incredible mentor that so many people don't get. So I
feel like I had so many incredible lessons fast tracked
for me. I mean, my the first time I actually
drove in the Baha one thousand, Rod was sitting in
the right seat, you know, and we jump in and
he goes, I don't think I've ever sat in this
seatore and you know, talking about pressure. But you know
(11:56):
what was so great is I got to learn from
a legend. And you know he also had he had
a really great statement that really resonated and really helped
me because you know, I own a marketing company and
production company. And he said, look, it's really really hard
to be a pro driver. You know, only a few
(12:16):
people will make it. You know a lot of drivers
out there are paying their way, et cetera. He said,
but what you can do with your race experience and
your experience on the other side of what you do,
you can combine too for great business. And that was
really good advice. I was fortunate I got to be
(12:37):
a demo driver and then eventually run his program for
BEF Good Richard Michelin where we coached and trained people
throughout the year and that was a great experience. So
that's where it started from and came from. And then I,
you know, really worked hard to take those lessons and
apply them across the industry. And I love that. It's
(13:02):
a long version.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
I just want to I just want to reiterate. So
Rod Hall was in fifty straight, fifty consecutive Baja one
thousand races and he had class wins in twenty five
of them. So he had, at least, at his passing
in twenty nineteen, the most desert off road race wins
of any human right, that's crazy, yes, And he was.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Also the only person who has won the overall in
a stock four by four.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Wow, and that was Bronco Wow.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
And that feet hasn't been reproduced. So, you know, just
such a legend, you know, to learn from someone like that,
you know, I just kind of I still have to.
I always go back and say thanks to Rod, you know,
for bringing me into this space. You know, I was
back in the ski and mountain bike world, you know,
(13:55):
and cycling world, and you know, he just said, hey,
you know, all those skills translate, but they translate to
four wheels.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
I was going to ask you, you know, did he
ever tell you what did he see in you? Emily
that let him know this person is really someone who's
going to be receptive to what I have to teach her.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Yeah, he sure did. And I also pass that lesson
along to other people because I think it's really important.
First of all, I never give up. I hate to
give up. I work really hard. I love being on
a team, and I am coachable. I don't believe I
(14:36):
have all the answers. I don't believe I know it all.
And I also always believe that we can keep learning.
And he said, that's what it takes. You know, you
have to never give up. And he also said that
you know, sometimes you have to break bad habits and
drivers and you have to be able to leave your
ego at the door and say, you know, I'm not
(14:57):
the best at this. You know I need to work
on things. And so he just said. You know, that
really made him comfortable to take that time, because you know,
he said. One of the things he said to me
in the first days is he said, we're going to
go train for Vegas Tono. He goes, that's the first
race I want you to do. And he said, if
(15:17):
you can't learn how to left foot break in an hour,
this will be over.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
No pressure.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Yeah, no pressure, he goes, I won't have time to
fix all the things that you're going to break if
you can't left foot break. So he goes, you have
an hour.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
So part of it is about acquiring those skills, it's learned.
Part of it must be innate, right because I've noticed
so many people who are better drivers than me or
better motorcycle riders are better in fist fights, which hasn't
I haven't been involved in a fist fight since like
elementary school. But they just have a lack of fear
in a way I can't give nine tenths on a
(15:57):
track because I'm afraid I'll crash, and the best have
to be willing to take that risk to some extent,
isn't it true?
Speaker 3 (16:03):
That is true. I think it's a little bit different
in different forms of racing. Let's say stock driving a
stock car off road a stock truck is different than
driving let's say a trophy truck or a t one
car because you do I mean, you just have to
put it out all on the line, you know, on
the track. I believe it's true. You know you're a
(16:24):
laguna seka and you need to late break. You need
to late break going into turn two into the Andretti hairpin,
and you've got to be willing to pretty much put
it into the wall and you could die. And so
there is some of that.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Now.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
That's what I think the reason why I probably excel
more at endurance because I would actually like to live
and endurance racing in a stock manufacturer vehicle is a
little different. It really means that you can go out
and you have enough time to be smart. You don't
want to lose time, but you don't want to waste
(17:03):
time by crashing, breaking or flatting and so you can
have a little bit of self preservation. But when you
get into these unlimited classes, yeah, that lack of fear,
you know, not worrying about family at home, et cetera.
I think that's important. So I think that people can
(17:23):
really excel if they find in automotive or in competing,
if they find the type of racing that works for
their strengths. And what's great about automotive and competing is
that there are enough different classes and cars and things
like that that you can find your niche.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I was just going to ask you, you know, for
people who may not be familiar with these different names,
we're just tossing off like Baja one thousand and King
of the Hammers and Rebel tell us a little bit
specifically about the Rebel Rally. I know this is really
for me. This was how I got to know you
and know about you. Obviously, you know, I know that
you finished really high in the Gazelle Rally Morocco Gazelle.
(18:07):
Rebel tell us about the Rebel Rally and what kind
of driving and talent and skill that specifically demands for
the people who are really successful.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yes, and actually I would say that the Rebel Rally
is actually a product of the things that Rod taught
me and the things that I felt were missing and
that Rod felt was missing in the space of off
road and for manufacturers. So the Rebel Rally is the
longest competitive off road rally in the United States. It
(18:39):
is for stock manufacturer vehicles, and it's a competition for points,
not fastest speed. And it is designed it is truly
for stock manufactured vehicles, not unlimited race cars. So you
can enter in a car in a four x four
or what we call x cross, which is more like
crossover class or an all wheel drive class. We call it.
(19:00):
We think it sounds cooler than crossover. But that event
is ten days. It's eight days of competition. It is
ten hour stages per day, although some people are out
there fourteen fifteen hours a day, not on purpose.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Not on purpose correct, Yes.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
And it's based on traditional navigation, so we say it's
precision driving and precision navigating, and it is based on
two types of challenges. Those two types are in duro
challenges which are traditional like regularity roadbook stages where you
have to be very accurate on arriving on time to
waigh points, whether they are mark they're always marked, but
(19:43):
whether there you can guess where they are, you know,
on the roadbook, or whether they're sort of hidden controls.
The other type of challenge, which makes up a lot
of the bulk of the points is map and compass.
So there's no GPS, there's no cell phones, you don't
get your cell phone at night. You're cut off for
eight days. Extreme and you are traditionally navigating and sometimes
(20:06):
those stages, you know, they can be four hundred kilometers
in a day navigating with a compass and a map
and some maybe from book sections. Yeah, so it's not
like these like stages where half the stage is just
getting to the next point. It's like the whole day
is a stage. So really demanding the checkpoints, we made
(20:28):
our own scoring system. We wanted at highest points, not
lowest points traditional and rally, which is lowest points highest
points is to push people to kind of go for
that hail married pass, you know, so you're not just
falling off the back and collecting penalties like you normally do.
And rally and they're rated like a ski run green,
blue and black dimond checkpoints and you know I come
(20:51):
from you know, an outdoor world ski cycling world, so
that scoring system of green, blue and black dime in
checkpoints really appeals to a lot of people. Yeah, it
makes sense. And you know black time in checkpoint isn't
even marked. You have to use triangulation, heading and distance
to nail a checkpoint within and it scored like a bullseye.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
And this is out in the middle of nowhere with
no context for anything at all.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Yeah, absolutely, you know, And how do you get found
when you get lost? You know, you really have to
dig down deep and it is a really tough challenge.
It happens to be all women, and I always say
it happened.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
I did not know that.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yeah, and that's the thing, you know, like it's sixty
percent of our audience, you know, our men, and they
all want to do it. But I wanted to build
a world class car rally for stock manufacturer vehicles that
we can drive at our dealerships. And then I wanted
it to be for women because you know, when I
(21:55):
was racing, I was usually one of the only women.
And now there are a lot more women in race
and it's great and I love seeing it. But people
say there are so many women in racing, and I
still go two percent of the veiel. Yeah, well we're
fifty percent of the drivers. You know, we have such
a profound impact on purchasing of vehicles. Why are we
(22:18):
still one to three percent of the competitive field.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
That is awesome? Yeah, you know what I'm by the
way I'm looking at the website is really cool because
it has a sweet video sort of montage of the competitions.
I guess past and you see participants. Obviously a lot
of Jeeps. I recognize Broncos straight away and Defenders, but
I also saw a Rivian, I see Hyundai's you know,
(22:46):
so there are maybe marks that you might not expect.
Are there vehicles that typically win? Do jeeps typically take
the top? Or is it more about, you know, the
driver and the navigator than it is the machine.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
It is the most about the driver and the navigator
and their talent. However, Jeep holds the top rank of
number of lens and to tell you the truth, the
highest number of wins. We're in bone stock jeeps that
were not modified fair and which is really cool. This year,
the Rivian R one t won it and Rivian actually
(23:24):
debuted their first truck off the production line in the
Rebel Rally. Four years ago. We're going into our fifth year.
We really worked hard to pioneer remote, rapid sustainable power
on course. This year actually we powered the evs with
green hydrogen.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Wow, that was.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Made from solar and wind thanks to renewable innovations. I mean,
we've worked hard to build a proving ground for vehicles
that you can buy regardless of your powertrain.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
That is cool. I see a Ford mockey.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
So yeah, Yeah, I wanted to say, you know, what
have you noticed changing over the years in terms of
the visibility of this kind of race and the involvement
from manufacturers and just the amount of money for sponsorships,
advertising marketing. Tell us a little bit about how the
industry and the off roading culture has grown since you joined.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah, and you know, I can speak to Rebel and
I can and this is also indicative of what's going on,
you know in places especially like King of the Hammers.
So what we've seen in Rebel, which is really exciting
is the number of manufacturers involved. It's the one competition
where you can compete in an unmodified manufactured vehicle that
(24:46):
you purchase and you can win, and it is eight
days and it just proves how durable. I always say, like,
the vehicle in our driveway is more capable than we think.
And you have all this money and research in time
that's been spent to test these vehicles, and so you know,
(25:06):
even whether you're in a race car or you're in
a stock car from the dealership, you can only drive
it up to the level as a driver that it
is capable of. And that's what you're trying to do
without breaking it in the rebel. Whether you're in a
stock car, whether you're in the baham On thousand or
the King of the Hammers in an unlimited car, you're
(25:27):
trying to drive it to the level of its capability.
So what I've seen is that I think last year,
I believe we had eleven or ten major vehicle manufacturers
that supported programs. For example, Toyota put in the limit
of the manufacturer limit of what you can put in.
They put in six teams, and they put in female
(25:49):
engineers from different divisions of manufacturing, R and D, fuel Cell,
you know, Kelty. From their part, it was amazing. And
you know, we have Rivian they put in three teams.
They started out putting in journalists and that usually seems
to be the logical way. And then now it's been
(26:12):
so effective to test their vehicles, improve their vehicles, and
also to build the teamwork in leadership and you know,
grit skills of their employees. So Rivian put in three
teams of engineers wow and won the rally. And you know,
so that is what I've seen is a change. We
have new I believe we already have three new manufacturers.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
Who are the new ones. Oh I can't say they,
you know, haven't been announced yet that are in the rally.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
For this year. The other thing that I'm seeing that
is a really interesting change is that they are supporting
you know, I look at Forward, I look at these
companies and they are putting in women in these vehicles,
not as a token, here's what we do for women.
(27:03):
It's because they believe in the rally, the platform, and
they believe in the women. And they're not they don't
aren't necessarily professional racers. They're women who've shown that they're
great drivers, great navigators, great competitors. And they're sponsoring and
supporting women who aren't the stereotypical women in racing. And
(27:28):
so it's giving a lot of opportunity to women who
would normally you know who don't have five million followers,
or you know, are the one personality and a certain
sector of racing.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Zoom out and talk to me about the whole culture
of King of the Hammers. Rebel Baha. I didn't know
about King of the Hammers until Hannah. I saw Hanna's
story on the Bloomberg. But since I saw her story,
a lot more people have been doing stories on it
and it's been getting bigger and bigger. Do you see
that in the industry in general? Is it just growing?
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Yes? It was interesting. I was involved with King of
the Hammers for thirteen years and the reason why I
can actually do this podcast right now is because I'm
not actually out on the lake bed, but cheering them
on remotely as I planned my adventure to go explore
off road the South Island of New Zealand. But what
I have to say is I worked really hard along
(28:32):
with the team at King of the Hammers to build
a place that people could go that weren't really represented
in racing and King of the Hammers. It's similar. People
want to do things, you know, they don't want to
just watch, they want to do. And what I have
seen also with let's say King of the Hammers is
(28:55):
that it started out as a place that the journalists,
the media, they wouldn't come to, they wouldn't cover there was.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
That is it because we didn't understand it or was
too obscure?
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Yeah, you know it was obscure. You know, there's not
a five star hotel there, There's not you know, it
is rock, it's raw, and people thought it was just
slow rock crawling. And when you get to King of
the Hammers and the reason why I got involved, I
was driving and sponsored by BFG at the time, and
(29:31):
I came out and I saw Brad Level and I saw,
you know, went out with Rod and we saw this
action and I saw these guys racing, and I went,
are you kidding me? This is the coolest action I
have ever seen in off road or really outside of
F one, you know, standing at an F one track,
(29:52):
it is the best thing I've ever seen. Cars flipping over,
flipping over, landing on their wheels and continuing on not broken,
you know. I mean, it was like, oh my gosh,
this is crazy and people want to see that. And
I thought it was the most entertaining thing I'd seen.
And then I watched I got involved, and you know,
(30:13):
Dave Cole, who owns King of the Hammers, had very
good vision of what he wanted it to be, and
we said, let's go make it happen. And what I
think we did is we celebrated not just the top
racers that were winning. We celebrated every last person that
showed up and crossed that finish line and built this
(30:35):
place that was like mecca. You know, this this destination,
this burning Man type of event for off roaders that
didn't exist where you watched some other races and you
only saw the top one, two or three, the big
money teams. And what King of the Hammers is about
is about innovation. Build it. You know, it started from
(30:56):
unlimited racing. If you can innovate, build whatever you think
you can build to win this thing. And what's happened
over time. They started slow and now there are cars
that can climb up sheer cliffs like this descend, but
then they can also drive one hundred and thirty miles
per hour in the desert to string together the trails.
(31:19):
And what it's done is it spawned this innovation that
now you know, it celebrated the little the person, the
little guy you know, and and woman in the garage
with a welder. Then when I can make this stronger,
I can make this better. And now what you've seen,
especially with King of the Hammers, and I've seen it
(31:41):
there more than in any other type of off road racing,
is that it has spurred the most innovation in the
aftermarket and even in the mainstream market. You know, jeeps
now have disconnecting sway bars.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
You know, so cool, and yeah, I'm curious. It's it's
so I mean, when you see the pictures, it is
like Burning Man meets Mad Max. And I think if
you're not you recognize it's cool. But if you're not
really looped in, it can be really intimidating to try
to think it even about becoming involved or even just
(32:14):
going out to watch. So what do you advise people
who say, I know this is cool, I really want
to be a part of it, and I just want
to see it or even try it. What's the best
way to do that?
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing is is
if you can't get there this year, watch live. So
there's a great live webcast. And that's what we did
early on, is we committed to live webcasting so everyone
could see it around the world. Watch the live webcast.
The thing that's different about King of the Hammers now
is it truly is an off road festival, so there's
something for everyone. I think everybody's favorite race is the
(32:49):
Class eleven Volkswagens, you know, the stock bugs. You know,
everybody loves that and that didn't exist before. So watch
the live webcast, watch all the races, and you're going
to learn about the cars, the rules, the mods. You're
going to meet the teams, and then that can kind
of help you find maybe that category that you fit into.
(33:12):
There's UTV, there's extreme and Duro motorcycle racing. There's Class eleven,
there's fourteen hundred. There is what's called the Everyman Challenge,
you know, and that's for the person who has like
that modified four wheel drive vehicle but not the unlimited
cars for the which launched it. So find that place
(33:35):
and that type of racing that you like, and then
I would actually reach out to the teams. I think
that's really what's great about off road, you know, and
you guys know what it's like when you walk into
a pit in let's say, on track racing. Certain times
of track racing at a high level. They don't want
you to see anything. They don't want you to take pictures.
(33:57):
They want you to give away the secret sauce. Go
to King of the Hammers and you actually can walk
in people's pits. You can walk into Lauren Healey's pitt,
you know who races for Ford, and look at his
car and ask him what he's doing. You know, how
do you and they'll talk to you. That's what I
(34:17):
love about the off road space is people work to
bring each other up. You know, they say rising tides,
you know all ships.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah, that's exactly right. I love that, and I think
you're right. It is a feeling of community and people
are friendly and proud and want to share what they've
built and what they're working on. It does not feel
exclusive at all.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
That's the best part. The King of the Hammers is
going on now and I guess when's the main event.
Speaker 3 (34:47):
The main event is next Saturday. So it started this
past weekend with King of the Motos. It's UTV's this
weekend and which is now the biggest race in the
highest number of vehicles along with the Everyman Challenge. Then
it goes into qualifying and then the Everyman Challenge, and
then the big final race called this the forty four
(35:08):
hundred race, the Race of Kings, and that will be
next Saturday.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
And there are thousands of people out in the desert.
I mean ten how many last year came?
Speaker 3 (35:20):
I believe the number, you know, they it tends to range.
I think the official number was put out at fifty thousand,
but when you actually look at the whole desert around it,
it's about probably seventy plus thousand people.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Small town it is.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
It can be overwhelming, but it is intense.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
You could say, yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
It's intense. They are about one hundred and forty or
so vendors. There's a big jumbo tron you know in Hammertown.
The other nice thing to go in and talk to
the vendors, go in to the pits, talk to the
race teams, you know, just go. I always, you know,
people say like, how do you start, and I always
just say, start somewhere. But if you want to be good,
(36:02):
learn from good. If you want to be great, learn
from great. And the greats are still there.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Oh that's what we're doing right now.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
They will talk to you.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Thank you so much for joining us. Real pleasure getting
to know you just a little bit, and I can't wait.
I'm going to watch Kingda Hammers this weekend and next week,
and I'll watch the Rebel Rally, which I think is
a two hundred and sixty days from two hundred and
fifty days from now. So really cool to learn about that.
Emily Miller, thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
All right, well, thanks very much for joining us. That's
going to do it for the show this week. Make
sure to join us, same time, same place next week,
and also remember that you can always send us in
suggestions or questions to our email address, which.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Is It's Hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net, or you
can reach out to us on our instagrams.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Probably Yes, I'm Matt Miller nineteen seventy three, and you are.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Anna Elliott XO two of everything to Well's two teas,
two ages, but not two x or no, just the
one of those.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Don't overdo it, got it? Thanks very much for listening.
I'm Matt Miller and
Speaker 1 (37:04):
I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Bloomberg
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