February 9, 2024 • 36 mins
SEMA President and CEO Mike Spagnola joins Hannah Elliott and Matt Miller to discuss the $337 billion automotive aftermarket industry and the SEMA show, the world’s largest annual gathering of small businesses that happens each year in Las Vegas. A lifelong car lover, Spagnola spends much of his time in Washington D.C. working to maintain the vehicle owner rights increasingly scrutinized at state and federal levels. Plus, Lewis Hamilton Formula One move to Ferrari, Porsche's new Taycan EV, and Matt's obsession with Cadillac's brutal Blackwing sedans.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm Matt Miller, I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Thanks so much for joining us again on another episode
of Hot Pursuit. We have a lot to talk about
today because there's a lot of car news, actually surprising
amount of car news that came out kind of overnight.
Porsche obviously, we talk about Porsha all the time, but
they're gonna be releasing some new models and we'll hear
the details from Hannah about that, at least as much
(00:41):
as we know thus far. Over the last couple of weeks,
there's been a lot of F one news, right with
Lewis Hamilton moving to Ferrari and Cadillac and the Andretti's
getting a big no, so we'll talk about that as well.
I've been driving a ton of different cars. Actually, I've
driven like four different cars over the last week.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Impressive.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah. So I drove the well, the Mercedes GLS that
I was considering buying for our family. It's kind of
a bus I guess that was to be expected. But
I drove the BMW I five, which was at first
the first few days I was driving it because it
was around town and slow. I was like, this is boring,
just like every EV. But then when I drove it fast,
(01:22):
when I drove it in Anger, I was really impressed.
So we'll talk about that. And speaking of driving an
Anger and being impressed, I drove the Cadillac TT four
Black Wing, which amazing, amazing.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Great car that no one wants to buy.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah. Well, and there's the CT five Black Wing as well.
Both of those cars have been lauded across the journalistic press.
But I just don't see that many, or maybe I
don't notice.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I never see them. I never see him anywhere on
the road. Well, he gets a la thing.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
And the thing about the CT five Black Wing is
that it's kind of the last of a dying breed.
It's really a muscle car, you know, wrapped in an
executive Dan and we have a great guest today to
talk about all these things and more. But I'm going
to look forward to his comments on muscle cars, especially Hannah.
Who are we going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, this is Mike Spagnola, the president and CEO of SEMA.
We have mentioned the SEMA Show, the infamous SEMA Show
in Vegas multiple times on this podcast and now we
have the top dog who's running the whole thing with us.
Mike's been in the business for over forty years. He's
worked for Sema since twenty thirteen, and he's been president
(02:33):
and CEO since twenty twenty two. So this guy knows
what he's talking about. And Yeah, I can't wait to
get his thoughts on a lot of stuff we.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Can well to me. Also, the aftermarket is what it's
really all about for a car lover. Right, If you're
a real car person, then you don't just buy something
off the lot and leave it the same the whole time.
Most likely you want to put your own personal touches
on it. Right, That's so right.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
And this is actually perfect timing coming from the retromobile
show that I just came from in Paris, which is
kind of like a Sema, but it's for a classic
like beautiful, expensive classic cars like old Jaguars, old Porgas,
that sort of thing, and it's all European. So we
saw Sema in Paris, Ish and now we're going to
(03:17):
see the Vegas, the real Sema, the Vegas Sema. So
this is actually a perfect pivot coming off of the
aftermarket retromobile show all right.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Well, let's bring Mike in right now. He's just sat
down and gotten miked up and ready to join us.
A real pleasure to talk to you, Mike. I've been
a huge fan of SEMA from Afar. I've actually never
been to it. I'm ashamed to say. Tell us a
little bit about yourself. How did you get involved in
running SEMA.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
I mean, I've been in the automotive industry since I
came out of high school, worked for several SEMA manufacturers,
owned a couple of those CEMA companies and enjoyed all
of it. Joined SEMA on their boarder directors about fifteen
years ago.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
And then in two thousand thirteen, I.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Was selling my company and was going to just trying
to figure out what I wanted to do next, and
the idea came up for this thing called the Sema Garage,
which was a product development center that would help manufactures
develop products and get them to market. And I spent
pretty much my whole career, you know, developing products taking
into market.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
And so.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Chris Kirstin, our president at the time, asked me if
I would come on for three years and create this
product abialment center before I moved on to whatever I
wanted to do, and I.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
Agreed to do that.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
So I'm now nearly twelve years into my three year
contract here at SEMA and ended up in the CEO
seat a couple of years ago when Chris retired.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I'm curious, can you just for people who might not
know exactly what SEMA is today.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
We might know a little bit about what it.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Has been, but today, how would you describe it to
somebody who's never been but who's curious about going.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Yeah, you know, where a trade association, and you know,
people know us for the show. When I say something
about SEEMA, you know, they ask me if I live
in Las Vegas because that's where the show is. You know,
you can get to YouTube or just about any automotive
publication and know about the SEMA show. But I talk
a little bit about what we do the other three
hundred and sixty days a year, and we do a lot.
(05:19):
So we're a trade association. We help small to large
manufacturers with their businesses to make sure that they can
stay in business, to make sure that they we help
them with tools and services to help them grow and prosper.
Both on the retailer side, small mom and pop retailers
all the way up to the large chains, and then
small mom and pop widget makers for performance and aftermarket
(05:43):
parts all the way up to Ford Motor Company.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
So it's a.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Really great mix of enthusiasts and entrepreneurs and people that
own these businesses that make whatever widget, aftermarket part you
can think of. We help them with their businesses. We
help them through advocacy in government affairs. We have this
Sema garage where we have these product development centers.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
Yeah, I definitely want to do with education.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
I definitely want to talk about it. I want to
talk about those garages for sure, and also about your
efforts to, I guess, defend the freedom of car lovers
in America. But I do want to get.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
What does that mean? We got it? We definitely got it.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
That means I do want to get the details on
the show because that is, you know, what everybody thinks about,
and that's where all these incredible releases come out. You
see these really cool one off cars that manufacturers are making,
their aftermarket parts manufacturers are putting out and what is
it every year in November? How long is it how
many people go tell us about the show, Because that's
(06:43):
really what I think a lot of people know it
for yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
So it's you know, it's the hardest car show that
everybody wants to go to that they can't get to
because it's a business to business only show. We get
about one hundred and sixty thousand people over a four
day period usually the first week of November, and it
is just this gathering of all these manufacturers and buyers
that come together to do business. So including the Oees.
(07:08):
You know, Ford Motor Company shows up, in General Motors
and Slants US, they all show up. Toyota had a
huge booth this last year to show off they're not
only their vehicles, but their aftermarket products, their accessories, those
sorts of things. And so you get the Oees, you
get small and large widget manufacturers, you get all the
buyers from across the world, eighty different countries that show up,
(07:31):
and then you get some of the best built cars.
We do the Seema Battle of Builders that we started
ten years ago. Now the best builders in the world
come and build just these incredible hot rods and muscle
cars and different vehicles and it's amazing to watch. You know,
every year when I think that builds just can't get better,
they just outdo themselves. It's guys showing up with their
(07:53):
custom cars. About fifteen hundred custom cars on the floor.
The show takes over three million square feet. It takes
over we're all in Las Vegas. Last year we were
the largest trade show in America, large, largest automotive trade show,
largest in Las Vegas.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
And these builds are million dollar builds. You know, people
spend years sometimes building something specifically for the SEMA show
they do.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
And some of these builds that Chip FOOSTUW and the
Ring Brothers and some of the other guys that come
in with these builds are just incredible.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
I mean it's.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Formula one technology and some of these builds. And then
of course all these manufacturers show up with different new products.
I mean, that is really where you're launching the newest product.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
So tell us a little bit about that. You mentioned
new products. Obviously we talk so much about evs on
this show. They're front of mind for everyone. Do electric
vehicles have a part in the show, Are they are
they relevant? Are they part of it? And what does
it mean going forward for SEMA. I mean a lot
of these guys you think they're dealing with, you know,
V eight and B twelve engines.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
What does it mean for the future of SEEMA, I
guess is what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yeah, good question, you know, and we are evolving in
that looking at that every year a couple points. There's
the EV conversion market has really started to blossom. So
taking a sixty nine camarom making it into an EV,
and it used to be that you had to You've
found a crash tesla and you've pulled all the guts
out of that crash tesla and then you put it
(09:23):
into the sixty nine camaro. You know, some would say
that's heresy, others would say it's pretty cool. And you know,
the younger generation that's there, they're the outlaw hot riders, right,
these EV conversions.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
So that's going on.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
But what's really exciting about that this year we've we
highlighted over forty manufacturers of components. So now you're seeing
battery packs come out, you're seeing motors come out, you're
seeing all the controls come out, all the different components
needed to convert a ice engine vehicle into EV.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
So that for sure is a.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Bird shooting market and we see that continuing to grow.
There's obviously still accessories you can do to an EV.
I mean take the forward lightning. You know, other than powertrain,
you still need running boards, and you still need bed accessories,
and you could still do all the things. You can
still lift them, you could still put bigger tires and
wheels on them. But the other thing that we are
(10:15):
really promoting is all fuel technologies and all forms of propulsion.
So for example, this year we at the SEMA show,
we had about twenty thousand square feet dedicated to the
future propulsion. That included hydrogen, it included alternative fuels, different
forms of propulsion.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
That's not just EV.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I mean, I'm a kind of a mopar guy. I
got one of the last Challengers when they came off
the line last year. And being you know, a Dodge fan,
I've been watching you know what comes out at SEMA.
And they introduced their charger daytona electric vehicle at SEMA
two years ago. Right, that SEMA was the platform that
(10:55):
they used to show all of these you know, muscle
car people, their new what they want to be a
muscle car EV. So you have more and more manufacturers
using SEMA as a platform, right, And I wonder how
much customization and personalization. How much of that is coming
back because I know, at least in the motorcycle world,
(11:17):
like Dukati and Triumph, this is how they want to
make their money. Right when they release the Scrambler, they
expect people to not only buy the bike, but also
to buy a ton of different parts for it. Is
the same true in the car world.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
Some of the oes.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Sometimes it's a love hate relationship. They recognize sema, they
recognize that it helps them. You know, at the end
of the day, the OI wants to sell more vehicles.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
That's that's the.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Bottom line, and so if we can help them do that,
then it's a win win and we recognize that. Okay,
you know, I'll just take the Forward Raptor. You know,
when that truck came out, I think the aftermarket was like,
oh man, we're in trouble. But then you see all
these Forward Raptors that they take them off the showroom
floor and they yank the suspension off them, put up
(12:00):
after market suspension because people still want something unique and different.
And then there's the whole other market with all the
Ford f one fifties that you can buy a base
model and people still want to put after market tires
and wheels and larger suspension, you know, all those sorts
of accessories. So the market is still incredibly strong for
after market products and it will continue to be. The
(12:22):
oees can only carry so many accessories. I mean, I
mean look at jeep. You know, even though Moparer has
a pretty extensive selection of products that you can customize
your jeep on, the jeep market through Cima Manufacturers is
twenty times larger because there are people still want individualism,
They still want to have different opportunities. They still want
(12:43):
to have some way to customize their vehicle and maybe
over time with different products. So I see it as
still going.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Do people run into regulatory problems now, because as I mentioned,
you are lobbying in Washington for I don't know how
else to put it that it doesn't sound but more
kind of freedom for people to do what they want
with their cars.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
Right, So a lot of.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Things in that area, in the kind of government relations end.
So for example, our SEMA garage is here in Diamond
or California, and in Detroit we have full emission slabs.
So for example, if you are developing an engine product
that affects fuel or air, they have to go through
CARB EPA testing before they're legal to sell. So we
offer that service through our Sema garage. So let's just
(13:26):
say you want to develop an air intake for your
new Dodge. We would work with the manufacturer and the
development of that air intake. First off, we provide them
with CAD data so that they can take the CAD
data that is that air intake, they can modify it
for more volume.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
They can send that data back to us.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
We can three D print the part, put it on
the vehicle, and then we can test the part for
emissions compliance. We'll fill out the application for them. We'll
send that application into CARB California Resources Board and EPA
recognize since CARBS certification. We'll do the testing form, we'll
submit the test data, and we'll help them get their
CARB eos so they can sell that product. So we
(14:10):
count for over fifty percent of all the CARB eos
that go through every year. And then take suspension now
and take all these new aidofs, all these controls, now
the self breaking lane change departure. In our Detroit garage,
we have the only AIDOS center in the US that
looks at those sort of things and says, okay, what
happens when you modify the vehicle.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Can you give us a little update on SEMA's efforts
to push back some of the EPA's proposed emission rules
in California. I know you work on that, and I'm
just really curious if the automakers love you guys for
doing that, or if they hate you because you're moving
the target and it's tough to plan when you move
(14:52):
a target.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Just give us a little lay of the land on
how that's going.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Sure, well, I guess at the end of the day,
the consumer, I mean you're seeing that now, we're seeing
that EV sales are slowing down some and that the
consumer's not ready even though the government is trying to force.
You know, here in California, by twenty twenty six, I
think thirty three percent of the vehicles sold have to
be EV, and by twenty thirty three, one hundred percent
of vehicles sold have to be EV.
Speaker 5 (15:17):
And so we are.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Saying that first off, that the government shouldn't put their
thumb on the scale, and that they should decide that
it's EV and EV only, and that they should continue
to allow innovation to move forward, and that innovation comes
in the form of several things again, hydrogen, synthetic fuels, biofuels,
and the government shouldn't stifle that sort of technology and
(15:41):
continuing to allow that technology to go forward. And they
shouldn't pick winners and losers. It shouldn't be EV and
EV only. And so we are taking that message to
the streets to the consumer. You're even seeing you know,
a GM has now come out and said that they
see hybrid as a future. Of course, Toyota has been
on that bandwagon for a while or it is moving
(16:01):
in that direction.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
The consumer again, at the end of the day is
going to decide, and the consumer is not ready for
EV and EV only.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
And uh, Montana plated cars in California.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
It's great car culture in Montana.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
I might know a person in the same room that
has Oh.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
So it sounds like your whole thing is. Look, evs
are are great. You're not against electric vehicles, but you
are you believe they're not the only solution.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Yeah, that's correct. They are part of our future. They
are part of the answer, they're not the only answer.
And even that, the technology still has a waste to go, right.
I mean, we're seeing problems in cold areas when things
have to charge. We don't have the infrastructure yet they're
still working on range.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
You know.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Environmentally, there's there's a lot of controversy as to really
how clean they are because the mining and you know,
the materials needed and where those materials are come from,
and so, you know, we believe that should all play
out and there shouldn't be a hardline deadline that says
this is what it has to happen by.
Speaker 5 (17:05):
It's not. They're not going to make it anyway. I mean,
we have to.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
Face the fact that we're not going to be ready
by twenty twenty six to have that sort of infrastructure
and those sort of sales happen, and there's a lot
of work being done in hydrogen again and some of
these other fuels that it's really promising. Let alone the
economic impact. I mean, if you shut down entrocombustion engine
manufacturing and the aftermarket that goes with it, the economic
(17:30):
impact in the US would be incredible.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
How do you respond to people who who just would say, oh, well,
seem us anti environmental. You know, these are just guys
out in at Moab, you know, sure, tearing up natural
habitat and that sort of thing. You know it would
be easy to say that looking at some of these policies.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
I've received a few of those emails. Yeah yeah, look.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Again we you know, for example, again are magarages do
this emissions work to make sure that products that are
going out in the marketplace past the EPA and carbon emissions.
We work closely with Carbon EPA, We meet with them regularly.
We run those emissions lab at a loss. I mean,
we make our money through the trade show and through
does which we reinvest into our members' businesses. And I've
(18:19):
got twenty two people just in the garages, just in
the lab section that just do this compliance work every
day for our manufacturers to make sure that they're complying
on emissions. And then when it comes to all the
off road, we work closely with all the off road
communities to talk about leaving the land in the same place,
to make sure that it's clean, to make sure that
safe and areas are open to continue off roading because
(18:42):
it does bring quite a bit the economy, and it
is still an area where people should have the freedom
to go off roading and camping and do their thing.
It's no different than any other sport.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
I'd love to come out and see those garages at
some point, Mike, and I definitely want to come to.
The show actually starts on my birthday this year, November fifth,
So I'm really looking nice. Thank you so much for
joining us. Really appreciate having you on the podcasts. All right,
So that was mike' spagnola there from SEEMA. Really interesting
(19:14):
stuff that they're doing. I didn't know that they did
more than the show.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I knew they were obviously an organization, but I had
no idea the extent of their lobbying. And it does
seem like they that is actually the bulk of their work.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Right and well, to me, the garages sound fascinating to it.
Lovillion in those and see the products that they're making.
Let's talk a little bit about you know, we touched
on electric cars with him, and he talked about the
fact that GM is sort of turning back towards hybrids
and Ford has obviously done a little bit of a
of a turn as well. Portia has pushed so hard
(19:48):
in this direction and now we're gonna get uh, we
know we're gonna get an electric Macon, right, and we're
gonna get upgraded versions of the Tychon because one of
the things that none of the the car makers outside
of Tesla have been able to do is replicate the range.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
That's right, and.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
We got the information for the new next gen Tychon,
which is basically improved in almost every way over the
first generation which came out in twenty nineteen. I mean
more power, more range, acceleration is better, and charges faster.
So I mean Porscha at this point doesn't have a choice.
(20:27):
They are They've got a foot in the electric car
game for sure. But this new tae Can they're claiming
a real world range of up to five hundred and
eighty seven kilometers. We'll have to convert that to miles.
But that is I mean, it's it's good. It's real good.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Let's see, I'm just googling that and I should know.
Three hundred and sixty five miles. Okay, it's massive range.
And this is like this the problem that that Porsche had,
that Audi has, that most carmakers have had when going
up against Tesla, as they couldn't do that range. Okay,
GM has cracked that nut by putting gigantic batteries in
(21:09):
their in their trucks. But I always thought it was
weird that they didn't from the get go, just go
and hire a bunch of engineers from Tesla to be
able to beat them at their own range game.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Whenever I read the Bloomberg Intelligence analysis, they say, okay,
as they're adding more evs into the line, like possibly
the hybrid nine to eleven than seven eighteen, Boxer, the
electric mccon the ones that we just mentioned, that'll let
them keep their margins close to twenty percent, which is
pretty darn good. And that's that's where they have to play.
(21:45):
I mean, that's that's their only choice.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Hang on hybrid nine to eleven you just said, And
I know that they're gonna launch at least like a
facelift of the nine to eleven this year, right or
at least that's what I've heard. Is it gonna best?
Is it gonna have hybrid power? Is there to be
like just a forty eight volt system? They can still
have a purest product, right? They have like twenty six
different models of the nine to eleven, of course, so
(22:08):
they could have one that has a mild hybrid powertrain,
and they could have one that's naturally aspirated flat six.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Well, you're right, and I have to say listening to Mike,
it reminded me, Oh, of course, Porscha's got this eat well,
BW has this E fuels thing going too. We talked
about that when I drove Edith a record breaking nine
to eleven. She ran on e fuels as well, which
is basically synthetic fuel that uses an internal combustion engine.
That's still on the drawing board. It's still a possibility
(22:38):
in terms of finding ways to stop using traditional gasoline.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
So well, you know Formula one wants to do sustainable
fuel move to hundred percent sustainable fuel as well. I
think not until twenty thirty, but there was a ton
of F one news over the past couple of weeks.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Oh really, I must have missed it. I was in Paris.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Did everyone talk about it at Retromobile?
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Everybody?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I mean, imagine being very close to Italy, I mean.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah, France, and I mean it was unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Everybody was talking about the stock price, you know, Ferrari
stock price jumping almost twelve percent overnight with one personnel change.
I mean it was everybody, between puffs of cigarette smoke
and winking. They were just mentioning Lewis Hamilton over and
over and I think, honestly, everybody's very excited.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Yeah, I mean, I mean this is like, well Mark
in motorcycles, Mark Marquez, you know, he's going to race
for a Ducati team for Grizzini, which drives Ducatti's He's
like the star, like the best driver there is in
the at least until his injuries, and Ducatti is the
winningest manufacturer right now. So this is kind of like that,
(23:52):
although Ferrari hasn't been on top, like people want to
see Ferrari come back, right, So you had this superstar coming.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I know this sounds insane, but they kind of need
each other because FERRARII, let's be honest, hasn't won since
two thousand and.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Eight, right, So I guess it's more like Rossi when
Rossi went to do Kottie.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah, and Hamilton hasn't been on the podium, let's be honest.
And you know, Ferrari's got a lot of money. He's
reported to get one hundred million dollars in this contract,
and he brings with him not only his sponsorships but
also in the foundation that he started, his investment holdings.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
That he has.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
He brings so much with him, it's like they the
two Ferrari and Hamilton really are iconic brands, but in
a way they both kind of need each other because
neither has been winning.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
I thought they would be adding more and more teams, right,
Is Audi going to Formula one or some member of
the Folkswagen stable And we just heard that Cadillac is not.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah, this is another really interesting.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Scenario because they had kind of gotten a provisional green
light last year to join with Cadillac as their partner.
And so from what I read, it sounds like F
one doesn't think Andretti Racing brings anything to the series.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
That's crazy because I guess I'm just showing my age.
But when you say Hamilton is iconic, you know for me,
someone like Mario Andretti is iconic.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Right, Yeah, in America, I mean it does kind of.
It's interesting because you would think if Formula one is
trying to get a hold in the United States, and
obviously they do have a hold, it would be cool
and great to have an American team with an American manufacturer.
But you know, the official official refusal was they don't
(25:55):
see Andretti adding anything, which is kind of wild. But
also Formula one is not an American centric sports, right.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I think they want to see the motor first and
see what the Cadillac team can can offer. And there's
still is hope, I guess by the way I have
you know, Cadillac is one of these brands that I
just don't really think about that much except for the escalade, right,
because of their ubiquitous here on the streets of New York.
And I guess in LA as well. If you don't
(26:25):
have a G class, you're probably in an escalade there, right.
But I recently drove the CT four V Black Wing.
It's a mouthful and I wasn't that excited about it
because I had driven the CT for like the regular
CT four and it was like okay, but nothing special.
It had an inline four. This has a V six
twin turbocharge V six and I didn't think much about
(26:47):
it until I got in it. It was brutally fast,
I mean really impressive, and not just that, but elegant
in terms of at least the interior styling. The seats
were very comfortable, the leather was nice, and the thing
handled like I couldn't believe, like it was on rails.
It was just an eye opening experience for someone who
(27:10):
I normally don't really like six cylinder engines unless they're
in a straight line, right. It was a revelation and
it made me think about I need to get the
CT five V black Wing and drive that because that's
more my yea, my style is supercharged V eight rear
world drive. It's in manual. And so I called up
(27:31):
Cadillac and say, hey, let me have one of these cars.
And what's the deal with this black Wing series? I
can't believe it's long for this earth. But they said
they're gonna keep making them, so there's gonna be another
one next year. As everybody else has phased out their
V eights. You know, Dodge isn't making them. The Chevy
z own Camaro is on its last year of production
or they're already finished. Now, Cadillac is gonna keep going
(27:54):
in this direction. I guess they don't make so many
that it hurts their cafe raising. They're very expensive. You know,
a CT five V black Wing is like one hundred
grand and you can option it it up.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
But you know, how does it how does it sound?
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I mean, I haven't heard the V eight, the supercharge
V eight, so but I will tell you that the
CT four V black Wing, which is the twin turbo
charge V six with four hundred and seventy two horsepower
and like four hundred and fifty pounds feet of torque,
sounds amazing. I mean it's just burbal Berbal. I would
rather have one than M three basically. Wow, that's their
(28:31):
main competition. Yeah, and by the way, a lot of
a very high take rate on the black Wing cars
forty eight percent manual transmission take rate. And you can't
find another manual no V eight sedan in production in
the world. In fact, the only other any kind of
V eight that you can get with a manual transmission
I think right now is the Mustang. There's no other
(28:54):
V eight you can get with a manual.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
That's wild.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I didn't know that that's almost half. I mean, I
don't even think I'd be curious what like Subaru has
with their manual.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Like you know, I'm trying to want.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
About the nine to eleven. I mean, it's nowhere near that, yeah, exactly, No.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
It's nowhere near that high.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Oh that is interesting.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
By the way, what kind of response did you get
in your family SUV searched.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
So we got give us an update we got.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
I got a lot of responses.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
And thanks for all of those.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
By the way, No, I appreciate everybody's email. What's the
address again?
Speaker 2 (29:25):
The address is hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net. Hot
Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah, so a lot of people wrote in. Remember I
was trying to decide between the Mercedes GLS and a
range Rover long wheelbase, both of them used. I had
a fifty thousand dollars cap from the wife, and so
some people were writing in saying, hey, I got a GLS.
One guy rode in from Colorado and said, I love
how it handles in the mountains. You know, obviously it's
(29:55):
a family hauler, but he was surprised by its handling abilities.
And somebody else rode in and said, you know, I've
had Merks in the past, but I just got a
range Rover and it's really something special. The MRK isn't
really something special that you're going to really look forward
to driving. Other people rode in and suggested completely different vehicles.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
There is a Lexus suggestion in there.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah, and the Lexus looks amazing. It is also I
think a turbochart V six. I would love to drive it.
I love the angular, sort of brutalistic design. Somebody else
rode in and said, what about a used Sequoia, you know,
which is an interesting idea. They had the five point
seven liter V eight in that. But I think the
(30:37):
most important development of all was that Mariu listened to
the podcast and she has agreed to entertain your suggestion,
which was the Grand Cherokee.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
El no way, Yes, oh this is a This is
really a wonderful turn of events.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yes, a huge win for the Miller household, if I
can convince her.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
So did you did you drive one yet?
Speaker 1 (31:00):
So I've driven. I just got in the GLS and
it's too early to make a decision because I picked
it up on the Westside Highway and drove it over here.
I've only been in it for like ten blocks.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
But you haven't driven a jeep yet.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
The Jeep Grand Cherokee, I've driven twice and I love it.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Okay, okay, I love.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
The Grand Cherokee. You can have the V eight, right,
you can have the hemy in it. It has the
FAMCM so you can look at your kids in the back.
On the screen. There's a passenger interactive screen, so the passenger. Like,
if my wife's driving and I'm sitting in the passenger seat,
I can enter something in front of me into the
navigation system and then ship it over to her screen,
(31:38):
which I think is so.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Cool cool, right, It's like the Bloomberg terminal exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
You can control what the kids are watching the like,
I think the Jeep has so many positives, but everyone
compares it to lower level cars, to you know, Toyotas
and Hondas and Fords, and not to range Rovers and Mercedes.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
This is something that you're going to have to wrestle
with with your ego, and I would have to do
the same because it's it's undeniable. There's a bit of
a status thing driving a luxury.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Sure, Sure a Mercedes or a range Rover has a
lot more.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Status, right, even if the Jeep is actually better suited
for everything you need.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Agreed. And also I would point out that I don't
necessarily want that kind of rep in my neighborhood as
the guy who has a range Rover. You know, I'd
rather be the guy who has a Jeep, okay, you know,
because it's more down to earth. I mean, the range
Rover is undeniably special. It's got the supercharged five liters
(32:44):
V eight, it's got the incredible leather interior. You know,
the infotainment system they've never gotten right, and I don't
think even the newest ones do.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
But well that's British for you.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
But it's But it's also a truck, right, It's a
body on frame truck, whereas the GLS and the Grand
Cherokee their unibodies, so they're big cars. So the Range Drover, oh,
the most important thing to me. I should mention that
only Range Rover and BMW have in the X five.
And I don't know why anyone else everyone else doesn't
(33:15):
jump on this bandwagon. They had the split tailgate.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Back in the day. Also a lot of manufacturers had
split tailgates you could pull open at least the back
window of a jeep of the Olderokees and Wagoneers. I
don't know why more people don't do that. It must
be a safety thing, like the reason no one does
suicide doors anymore.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Wow, you know, I never thought about that. But that's
a really interesting thing because I remember on high school
of course that was a big thing.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
All right, what else have we got to look forward
to for next week. Have you got anything on the docket.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
I'm going to go drive a Hyperion car with Supercar Blondie.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
What is Hyperion It's a it's a supercar.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
It's a very random supercar, you know, multimillion dollar car
and she's got one here in LA and we're going
to go drive it together.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Supercar Blondie is like Instagram presence. I know her because
I follow her Instagram.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
She is.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Let me just tell you she has a major media
conglomerate that she has built with her husband Nick Alex
and Nick Hershey. So there are quite a few people
who really like what they do. So I'm really looking
forward to that, among other things.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Well, I've just googled it and Hyperion XP one a
hydrogen powered one off sports car developed and manufactured by
American California based automobile manufacturer Hyperion Motors.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
I will report back in full.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Well I look forward to hearing about that, Yeah, and
I will next week. I'll tell you how my week
with the Mercedes GLS four fifty four Mattic has fared.
I'm excited to put in two rear facing car seats.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Oh, that'll be fun.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Can you you put that on like a timer and
let me know how long that takes.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
I think, I think it'll be pretty quick. I'm I'm
very adept at that it is gonna be kind of
a bummer. I'm not having the black Wing anymore and
not having the I five. By the way, the BMW
I five. I wish i'd driven it more. I didn't
know how good it was until I was a few
days in to my loan and the thing flies and
it is solid. I mean it is built like a rock.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
How's the sound system?
Speaker 1 (35:30):
So, in terms of the music, sound system was okay.
I was just playing The Grateful Dead kind of on
not a high high level. But the fake sound I.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Love no.
Speaker 5 (35:43):
What.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I've become the biggest fan of fake sound and evs.
I don't know why they have a great fake roar
when you put it into sports mode and you just
blast it down the Henry Hudson.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
I'm speechless. I'm speechless. I'm very surprised to hear you
the mopark. You're right saying that you love this the synthetic.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
I should be more of a purist, but I will
say I just I know I think the thing is
I would get sick of it after multiple weeks of it.
But every time I drive like the Mercedes EQS, I
love the fake sound they had, like a lion roar. Yeah,
And now in this BMW I five, I just it's
it's so much fun. It makes me want to put
(36:24):
the pedal down even further more often. All Right, well,
I guess that does it for this week. Join us,
same time, same place next week, and definitely give us
an email.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
The email is hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net, Hot
pursuit all one word, all lowercase at Bloomberg b e.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Erg dot net.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
I'm Matt Miller
Speaker 3 (36:46):
And I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is hot Pursuit
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm Matt Miller, I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Thanks so much for joining us again on another episode
of Hot Pursuit. We have a lot to talk about
today because there's a lot of car news, actually surprising
amount of car news that came out kind of overnight.
Porsche obviously, we talk about Porsha all the time, but
they're gonna be releasing some new models and we'll hear
the details from Hannah about that, at least as much
(00:41):
as we know thus far. Over the last couple of weeks,
there's been a lot of F one news, right with
Lewis Hamilton moving to Ferrari and Cadillac and the Andretti's
getting a big no, so we'll talk about that as well.
I've been driving a ton of different cars. Actually, I've
driven like four different cars over the last week.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Impressive.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah. So I drove the well, the Mercedes GLS that
I was considering buying for our family. It's kind of
a bus I guess that was to be expected. But
I drove the BMW I five, which was at first
the first few days I was driving it because it
was around town and slow. I was like, this is boring,
just like every EV. But then when I drove it fast,
(01:22):
when I drove it in Anger, I was really impressed.
So we'll talk about that. And speaking of driving an
Anger and being impressed, I drove the Cadillac TT four
Black Wing, which amazing, amazing.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Great car that no one wants to buy.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah. Well, and there's the CT five Black Wing as well.
Both of those cars have been lauded across the journalistic press.
But I just don't see that many, or maybe I
don't notice.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I never see them. I never see him anywhere on
the road. Well, he gets a la thing.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
And the thing about the CT five Black Wing is
that it's kind of the last of a dying breed.
It's really a muscle car, you know, wrapped in an
executive Dan and we have a great guest today to
talk about all these things and more. But I'm going
to look forward to his comments on muscle cars, especially Hannah.
Who are we going to talk about.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, this is Mike Spagnola, the president and CEO of SEMA.
We have mentioned the SEMA Show, the infamous SEMA Show
in Vegas multiple times on this podcast and now we
have the top dog who's running the whole thing with us.
Mike's been in the business for over forty years. He's
worked for Sema since twenty thirteen, and he's been president
(02:33):
and CEO since twenty twenty two. So this guy knows
what he's talking about. And Yeah, I can't wait to
get his thoughts on a lot of stuff we.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Can well to me. Also, the aftermarket is what it's
really all about for a car lover. Right, If you're
a real car person, then you don't just buy something
off the lot and leave it the same the whole time.
Most likely you want to put your own personal touches
on it. Right, That's so right.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
And this is actually perfect timing coming from the retromobile
show that I just came from in Paris, which is
kind of like a Sema, but it's for a classic
like beautiful, expensive classic cars like old Jaguars, old Porgas,
that sort of thing, and it's all European. So we
saw Sema in Paris, Ish and now we're going to
(03:17):
see the Vegas, the real Sema, the Vegas Sema. So
this is actually a perfect pivot coming off of the
aftermarket retromobile show all right.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Well, let's bring Mike in right now. He's just sat
down and gotten miked up and ready to join us.
A real pleasure to talk to you, Mike. I've been
a huge fan of SEMA from Afar. I've actually never
been to it. I'm ashamed to say. Tell us a
little bit about yourself. How did you get involved in
running SEMA.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
I mean, I've been in the automotive industry since I
came out of high school, worked for several SEMA manufacturers,
owned a couple of those CEMA companies and enjoyed all
of it. Joined SEMA on their boarder directors about fifteen
years ago.
Speaker 5 (03:58):
And then in two thousand thirteen, I.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Was selling my company and was going to just trying
to figure out what I wanted to do next, and
the idea came up for this thing called the Sema Garage,
which was a product development center that would help manufactures
develop products and get them to market. And I spent
pretty much my whole career, you know, developing products taking
into market.
Speaker 5 (04:21):
And so.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Chris Kirstin, our president at the time, asked me if
I would come on for three years and create this
product abialment center before I moved on to whatever I
wanted to do, and I.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
Agreed to do that.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
So I'm now nearly twelve years into my three year
contract here at SEMA and ended up in the CEO
seat a couple of years ago when Chris retired.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I'm curious, can you just for people who might not
know exactly what SEMA is today.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
We might know a little bit about what it.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
Has been, but today, how would you describe it to
somebody who's never been but who's curious about going.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
Yeah, you know, where a trade association, and you know,
people know us for the show. When I say something
about SEEMA, you know, they ask me if I live
in Las Vegas because that's where the show is. You know,
you can get to YouTube or just about any automotive
publication and know about the SEMA show. But I talk
a little bit about what we do the other three
hundred and sixty days a year, and we do a lot.
(05:19):
So we're a trade association. We help small to large
manufacturers with their businesses to make sure that they can
stay in business, to make sure that they we help
them with tools and services to help them grow and prosper.
Both on the retailer side, small mom and pop retailers
all the way up to the large chains, and then
small mom and pop widget makers for performance and aftermarket
(05:43):
parts all the way up to Ford Motor Company.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
So it's a.
Speaker 4 (05:46):
Really great mix of enthusiasts and entrepreneurs and people that
own these businesses that make whatever widget, aftermarket part you
can think of. We help them with their businesses. We
help them through advocacy in government affairs. We have this
Sema garage where we have these product development centers.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
Yeah, I definitely want to do with education.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
I definitely want to talk about it. I want to
talk about those garages for sure, and also about your
efforts to, I guess, defend the freedom of car lovers
in America. But I do want to get.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
What does that mean? We got it? We definitely got it.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
That means I do want to get the details on
the show because that is, you know, what everybody thinks about,
and that's where all these incredible releases come out. You
see these really cool one off cars that manufacturers are making,
their aftermarket parts manufacturers are putting out and what is
it every year in November? How long is it how
many people go tell us about the show, Because that's
(06:43):
really what I think a lot of people know it
for yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
So it's you know, it's the hardest car show that
everybody wants to go to that they can't get to
because it's a business to business only show. We get
about one hundred and sixty thousand people over a four
day period usually the first week of November, and it
is just this gathering of all these manufacturers and buyers
that come together to do business. So including the Oees.
(07:08):
You know, Ford Motor Company shows up, in General Motors
and Slants US, they all show up. Toyota had a
huge booth this last year to show off they're not
only their vehicles, but their aftermarket products, their accessories, those
sorts of things. And so you get the Oees, you
get small and large widget manufacturers, you get all the
buyers from across the world, eighty different countries that show up,
(07:31):
and then you get some of the best built cars.
We do the Seema Battle of Builders that we started
ten years ago. Now the best builders in the world
come and build just these incredible hot rods and muscle
cars and different vehicles and it's amazing to watch. You know,
every year when I think that builds just can't get better,
they just outdo themselves. It's guys showing up with their
(07:53):
custom cars. About fifteen hundred custom cars on the floor.
The show takes over three million square feet. It takes
over we're all in Las Vegas. Last year we were
the largest trade show in America, large, largest automotive trade show,
largest in Las Vegas.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
And these builds are million dollar builds. You know, people
spend years sometimes building something specifically for the SEMA show
they do.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
And some of these builds that Chip FOOSTUW and the
Ring Brothers and some of the other guys that come
in with these builds are just incredible.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
I mean it's.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
Formula one technology and some of these builds. And then
of course all these manufacturers show up with different new products.
I mean, that is really where you're launching the newest product.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
So tell us a little bit about that. You mentioned
new products. Obviously we talk so much about evs on
this show. They're front of mind for everyone. Do electric
vehicles have a part in the show, Are they are
they relevant? Are they part of it? And what does
it mean going forward for SEMA. I mean a lot
of these guys you think they're dealing with, you know,
V eight and B twelve engines.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
What does it mean for the future of SEEMA, I
guess is what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yeah, good question, you know, and we are evolving in
that looking at that every year a couple points. There's
the EV conversion market has really started to blossom. So
taking a sixty nine camarom making it into an EV,
and it used to be that you had to You've
found a crash tesla and you've pulled all the guts
out of that crash tesla and then you put it
(09:23):
into the sixty nine camaro. You know, some would say
that's heresy, others would say it's pretty cool. And you know,
the younger generation that's there, they're the outlaw hot riders, right,
these EV conversions.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
So that's going on.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
But what's really exciting about that this year we've we
highlighted over forty manufacturers of components. So now you're seeing
battery packs come out, you're seeing motors come out, you're
seeing all the controls come out, all the different components
needed to convert a ice engine vehicle into EV.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
So that for sure is a.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Bird shooting market and we see that continuing to grow.
There's obviously still accessories you can do to an EV.
I mean take the forward lightning. You know, other than powertrain,
you still need running boards, and you still need bed accessories,
and you could still do all the things. You can
still lift them, you could still put bigger tires and
wheels on them. But the other thing that we are
(10:15):
really promoting is all fuel technologies and all forms of propulsion.
So for example, this year we at the SEMA show,
we had about twenty thousand square feet dedicated to the
future propulsion. That included hydrogen, it included alternative fuels, different
forms of propulsion.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
That's not just EV.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I mean, I'm a kind of a mopar guy. I
got one of the last Challengers when they came off
the line last year. And being you know, a Dodge fan,
I've been watching you know what comes out at SEMA.
And they introduced their charger daytona electric vehicle at SEMA
two years ago. Right, that SEMA was the platform that
(10:55):
they used to show all of these you know, muscle
car people, their new what they want to be a
muscle car EV. So you have more and more manufacturers
using SEMA as a platform, right, And I wonder how
much customization and personalization. How much of that is coming
back because I know, at least in the motorcycle world,
(11:17):
like Dukati and Triumph, this is how they want to
make their money. Right when they release the Scrambler, they
expect people to not only buy the bike, but also
to buy a ton of different parts for it. Is
the same true in the car world.
Speaker 5 (11:30):
Some of the oes.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Sometimes it's a love hate relationship. They recognize sema, they
recognize that it helps them. You know, at the end
of the day, the OI wants to sell more vehicles.
Speaker 5 (11:38):
That's that's the.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Bottom line, and so if we can help them do that,
then it's a win win and we recognize that. Okay,
you know, I'll just take the Forward Raptor. You know,
when that truck came out, I think the aftermarket was like,
oh man, we're in trouble. But then you see all
these Forward Raptors that they take them off the showroom
floor and they yank the suspension off them, put up
(12:00):
after market suspension because people still want something unique and different.
And then there's the whole other market with all the
Ford f one fifties that you can buy a base
model and people still want to put after market tires
and wheels and larger suspension, you know, all those sorts
of accessories. So the market is still incredibly strong for
after market products and it will continue to be. The
(12:22):
oees can only carry so many accessories. I mean, I
mean look at jeep. You know, even though Moparer has
a pretty extensive selection of products that you can customize
your jeep on, the jeep market through Cima Manufacturers is
twenty times larger because there are people still want individualism,
They still want to have different opportunities. They still want
(12:43):
to have some way to customize their vehicle and maybe
over time with different products. So I see it as
still going.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Do people run into regulatory problems now, because as I mentioned,
you are lobbying in Washington for I don't know how
else to put it that it doesn't sound but more
kind of freedom for people to do what they want
with their cars.
Speaker 5 (13:03):
Right, So a lot of.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Things in that area, in the kind of government relations end.
So for example, our SEMA garage is here in Diamond
or California, and in Detroit we have full emission slabs.
So for example, if you are developing an engine product
that affects fuel or air, they have to go through
CARB EPA testing before they're legal to sell. So we
offer that service through our Sema garage. So let's just
(13:26):
say you want to develop an air intake for your
new Dodge. We would work with the manufacturer and the
development of that air intake. First off, we provide them
with CAD data so that they can take the CAD
data that is that air intake, they can modify it
for more volume.
Speaker 5 (13:43):
They can send that data back to us.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
We can three D print the part, put it on
the vehicle, and then we can test the part for
emissions compliance. We'll fill out the application for them. We'll
send that application into CARB California Resources Board and EPA
recognize since CARBS certification. We'll do the testing form, we'll
submit the test data, and we'll help them get their
CARB eos so they can sell that product. So we
(14:10):
count for over fifty percent of all the CARB eos
that go through every year. And then take suspension now
and take all these new aidofs, all these controls, now
the self breaking lane change departure. In our Detroit garage,
we have the only AIDOS center in the US that
looks at those sort of things and says, okay, what
happens when you modify the vehicle.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Can you give us a little update on SEMA's efforts
to push back some of the EPA's proposed emission rules
in California. I know you work on that, and I'm
just really curious if the automakers love you guys for
doing that, or if they hate you because you're moving
the target and it's tough to plan when you move
(14:52):
a target.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Just give us a little lay of the land on
how that's going.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Sure, well, I guess at the end of the day,
the consumer, I mean you're seeing that now, we're seeing
that EV sales are slowing down some and that the
consumer's not ready even though the government is trying to force.
You know, here in California, by twenty twenty six, I
think thirty three percent of the vehicles sold have to
be EV, and by twenty thirty three, one hundred percent
of vehicles sold have to be EV.
Speaker 5 (15:17):
And so we are.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Saying that first off, that the government shouldn't put their
thumb on the scale, and that they should decide that
it's EV and EV only, and that they should continue
to allow innovation to move forward, and that innovation comes
in the form of several things again, hydrogen, synthetic fuels, biofuels,
and the government shouldn't stifle that sort of technology and
(15:41):
continuing to allow that technology to go forward. And they
shouldn't pick winners and losers. It shouldn't be EV and
EV only. And so we are taking that message to
the streets to the consumer. You're even seeing you know,
a GM has now come out and said that they
see hybrid as a future. Of course, Toyota has been
on that bandwagon for a while or it is moving
(16:01):
in that direction.
Speaker 5 (16:02):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
The consumer again, at the end of the day is
going to decide, and the consumer is not ready for
EV and EV only.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
And uh, Montana plated cars in California.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
It's great car culture in Montana.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
I might know a person in the same room that
has Oh.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
So it sounds like your whole thing is. Look, evs
are are great. You're not against electric vehicles, but you
are you believe they're not the only solution.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Yeah, that's correct. They are part of our future. They
are part of the answer, they're not the only answer.
And even that, the technology still has a waste to go, right.
I mean, we're seeing problems in cold areas when things
have to charge. We don't have the infrastructure yet they're
still working on range.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
You know.
Speaker 4 (16:49):
Environmentally, there's there's a lot of controversy as to really
how clean they are because the mining and you know,
the materials needed and where those materials are come from,
and so, you know, we believe that should all play
out and there shouldn't be a hardline deadline that says
this is what it has to happen by.
Speaker 5 (17:05):
It's not. They're not going to make it anyway. I mean,
we have to.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
Face the fact that we're not going to be ready
by twenty twenty six to have that sort of infrastructure
and those sort of sales happen, and there's a lot
of work being done in hydrogen again and some of
these other fuels that it's really promising. Let alone the
economic impact. I mean, if you shut down entrocombustion engine
manufacturing and the aftermarket that goes with it, the economic
(17:30):
impact in the US would be incredible.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
How do you respond to people who who just would say, oh, well,
seem us anti environmental. You know, these are just guys
out in at Moab, you know, sure, tearing up natural
habitat and that sort of thing. You know it would
be easy to say that looking at some of these policies.
Speaker 5 (17:53):
I've received a few of those emails. Yeah yeah, look.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
Again we you know, for example, again are magarages do
this emissions work to make sure that products that are
going out in the marketplace past the EPA and carbon emissions.
We work closely with Carbon EPA, We meet with them regularly.
We run those emissions lab at a loss. I mean,
we make our money through the trade show and through
does which we reinvest into our members' businesses. And I've
(18:19):
got twenty two people just in the garages, just in
the lab section that just do this compliance work every
day for our manufacturers to make sure that they're complying
on emissions. And then when it comes to all the
off road, we work closely with all the off road
communities to talk about leaving the land in the same place,
to make sure that it's clean, to make sure that
safe and areas are open to continue off roading because
(18:42):
it does bring quite a bit the economy, and it
is still an area where people should have the freedom
to go off roading and camping and do their thing.
It's no different than any other sport.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
I'd love to come out and see those garages at
some point, Mike, and I definitely want to come to.
The show actually starts on my birthday this year, November fifth,
So I'm really looking nice. Thank you so much for
joining us. Really appreciate having you on the podcasts. All right,
So that was mike' spagnola there from SEEMA. Really interesting
(19:14):
stuff that they're doing. I didn't know that they did
more than the show.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I knew they were obviously an organization, but I had
no idea the extent of their lobbying. And it does
seem like they that is actually the bulk of their work.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Right and well, to me, the garages sound fascinating to it.
Lovillion in those and see the products that they're making.
Let's talk a little bit about you know, we touched
on electric cars with him, and he talked about the
fact that GM is sort of turning back towards hybrids
and Ford has obviously done a little bit of a
of a turn as well. Portia has pushed so hard
(19:48):
in this direction and now we're gonna get uh, we
know we're gonna get an electric Macon, right, and we're
gonna get upgraded versions of the Tychon because one of
the things that none of the the car makers outside
of Tesla have been able to do is replicate the range.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
That's right, and.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
We got the information for the new next gen Tychon,
which is basically improved in almost every way over the
first generation which came out in twenty nineteen. I mean
more power, more range, acceleration is better, and charges faster.
So I mean Porscha at this point doesn't have a choice.
(20:27):
They are They've got a foot in the electric car
game for sure. But this new tae Can they're claiming
a real world range of up to five hundred and
eighty seven kilometers. We'll have to convert that to miles.
But that is I mean, it's it's good. It's real good.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Let's see, I'm just googling that and I should know.
Three hundred and sixty five miles. Okay, it's massive range.
And this is like this the problem that that Porsche had,
that Audi has, that most carmakers have had when going
up against Tesla, as they couldn't do that range. Okay,
GM has cracked that nut by putting gigantic batteries in
(21:09):
their in their trucks. But I always thought it was
weird that they didn't from the get go, just go
and hire a bunch of engineers from Tesla to be
able to beat them at their own range game.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Whenever I read the Bloomberg Intelligence analysis, they say, okay,
as they're adding more evs into the line, like possibly
the hybrid nine to eleven than seven eighteen, Boxer, the
electric mccon the ones that we just mentioned, that'll let
them keep their margins close to twenty percent, which is
pretty darn good. And that's that's where they have to play.
(21:45):
I mean, that's that's their only choice.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Hang on hybrid nine to eleven you just said, And
I know that they're gonna launch at least like a
facelift of the nine to eleven this year, right or
at least that's what I've heard. Is it gonna best?
Is it gonna have hybrid power? Is there to be
like just a forty eight volt system? They can still
have a purest product, right? They have like twenty six
different models of the nine to eleven, of course, so
(22:08):
they could have one that has a mild hybrid powertrain,
and they could have one that's naturally aspirated flat six.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Well, you're right, and I have to say listening to Mike,
it reminded me, Oh, of course, Porscha's got this eat well,
BW has this E fuels thing going too. We talked
about that when I drove Edith a record breaking nine
to eleven. She ran on e fuels as well, which
is basically synthetic fuel that uses an internal combustion engine.
That's still on the drawing board. It's still a possibility
(22:38):
in terms of finding ways to stop using traditional gasoline.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
So well, you know Formula one wants to do sustainable
fuel move to hundred percent sustainable fuel as well. I
think not until twenty thirty, but there was a ton
of F one news over the past couple of weeks.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Oh really, I must have missed it. I was in Paris.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Did everyone talk about it at Retromobile?
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Everybody?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
I mean, imagine being very close to Italy, I mean.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah, France, and I mean it was unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Everybody was talking about the stock price, you know, Ferrari
stock price jumping almost twelve percent overnight with one personnel change.
I mean it was everybody, between puffs of cigarette smoke
and winking. They were just mentioning Lewis Hamilton over and
over and I think, honestly, everybody's very excited.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Yeah, I mean, I mean this is like, well Mark
in motorcycles, Mark Marquez, you know, he's going to race
for a Ducati team for Grizzini, which drives Ducatti's He's
like the star, like the best driver there is in
the at least until his injuries, and Ducatti is the
winningest manufacturer right now. So this is kind of like that,
(23:52):
although Ferrari hasn't been on top, like people want to
see Ferrari come back, right, So you had this superstar coming.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I know this sounds insane, but they kind of need
each other because FERRARII, let's be honest, hasn't won since
two thousand and.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Eight, right, So I guess it's more like Rossi when
Rossi went to do Kottie.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah, and Hamilton hasn't been on the podium, let's be honest.
And you know, Ferrari's got a lot of money. He's
reported to get one hundred million dollars in this contract,
and he brings with him not only his sponsorships but
also in the foundation that he started, his investment holdings.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
That he has.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
He brings so much with him, it's like they the
two Ferrari and Hamilton really are iconic brands, but in
a way they both kind of need each other because
neither has been winning.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
I thought they would be adding more and more teams, right,
Is Audi going to Formula one or some member of
the Folkswagen stable And we just heard that Cadillac is not.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah, this is another really interesting.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Scenario because they had kind of gotten a provisional green
light last year to join with Cadillac as their partner.
And so from what I read, it sounds like F
one doesn't think Andretti Racing brings anything to the series.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
That's crazy because I guess I'm just showing my age.
But when you say Hamilton is iconic, you know for me,
someone like Mario Andretti is iconic.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Right, Yeah, in America, I mean it does kind of.
It's interesting because you would think if Formula one is
trying to get a hold in the United States, and
obviously they do have a hold, it would be cool
and great to have an American team with an American manufacturer.
But you know, the official official refusal was they don't
(25:55):
see Andretti adding anything, which is kind of wild. But
also Formula one is not an American centric sports, right.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I think they want to see the motor first and
see what the Cadillac team can can offer. And there's
still is hope, I guess by the way I have
you know, Cadillac is one of these brands that I
just don't really think about that much except for the escalade, right,
because of their ubiquitous here on the streets of New York.
And I guess in LA as well. If you don't
(26:25):
have a G class, you're probably in an escalade there, right.
But I recently drove the CT four V Black Wing.
It's a mouthful and I wasn't that excited about it
because I had driven the CT for like the regular
CT four and it was like okay, but nothing special.
It had an inline four. This has a V six
twin turbocharge V six and I didn't think much about
(26:47):
it until I got in it. It was brutally fast,
I mean really impressive, and not just that, but elegant
in terms of at least the interior styling. The seats
were very comfortable, the leather was nice, and the thing
handled like I couldn't believe, like it was on rails.
It was just an eye opening experience for someone who
(27:10):
I normally don't really like six cylinder engines unless they're
in a straight line, right. It was a revelation and
it made me think about I need to get the
CT five V black Wing and drive that because that's
more my yea, my style is supercharged V eight rear
world drive. It's in manual. And so I called up
(27:31):
Cadillac and say, hey, let me have one of these cars.
And what's the deal with this black Wing series? I
can't believe it's long for this earth. But they said
they're gonna keep making them, so there's gonna be another
one next year. As everybody else has phased out their
V eights. You know, Dodge isn't making them. The Chevy
z own Camaro is on its last year of production
or they're already finished. Now, Cadillac is gonna keep going
(27:54):
in this direction. I guess they don't make so many
that it hurts their cafe raising. They're very expensive. You know,
a CT five V black Wing is like one hundred
grand and you can option it it up.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
But you know, how does it how does it sound?
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I mean, I haven't heard the V eight, the supercharge
V eight, so but I will tell you that the
CT four V black Wing, which is the twin turbo
charge V six with four hundred and seventy two horsepower
and like four hundred and fifty pounds feet of torque,
sounds amazing. I mean it's just burbal Berbal. I would
rather have one than M three basically. Wow, that's their
(28:31):
main competition. Yeah, and by the way, a lot of
a very high take rate on the black Wing cars
forty eight percent manual transmission take rate. And you can't
find another manual no V eight sedan in production in
the world. In fact, the only other any kind of
V eight that you can get with a manual transmission
I think right now is the Mustang. There's no other
(28:54):
V eight you can get with a manual.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
That's wild.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I didn't know that that's almost half. I mean, I
don't even think I'd be curious what like Subaru has
with their manual.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Like you know, I'm trying to want.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
About the nine to eleven. I mean, it's nowhere near that, yeah, exactly, No.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
It's nowhere near that high.
Speaker 5 (29:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
Oh that is interesting.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
By the way, what kind of response did you get
in your family SUV searched.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
So we got give us an update we got.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
I got a lot of responses.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
And thanks for all of those.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
By the way, No, I appreciate everybody's email. What's the
address again?
Speaker 2 (29:25):
The address is hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net. Hot
Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah, so a lot of people wrote in. Remember I
was trying to decide between the Mercedes GLS and a
range Rover long wheelbase, both of them used. I had
a fifty thousand dollars cap from the wife, and so
some people were writing in saying, hey, I got a GLS.
One guy rode in from Colorado and said, I love
how it handles in the mountains. You know, obviously it's
(29:55):
a family hauler, but he was surprised by its handling abilities.
And somebody else rode in and said, you know, I've
had Merks in the past, but I just got a
range Rover and it's really something special. The MRK isn't
really something special that you're going to really look forward
to driving. Other people rode in and suggested completely different vehicles.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
There is a Lexus suggestion in there.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Yeah, and the Lexus looks amazing. It is also I
think a turbochart V six. I would love to drive it.
I love the angular, sort of brutalistic design. Somebody else
rode in and said, what about a used Sequoia, you know,
which is an interesting idea. They had the five point
seven liter V eight in that. But I think the
(30:37):
most important development of all was that Mariu listened to
the podcast and she has agreed to entertain your suggestion,
which was the Grand Cherokee.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
El no way, Yes, oh this is a This is
really a wonderful turn of events.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Yes, a huge win for the Miller household, if I
can convince her.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
So did you did you drive one yet?
Speaker 1 (31:00):
So I've driven. I just got in the GLS and
it's too early to make a decision because I picked
it up on the Westside Highway and drove it over here.
I've only been in it for like ten blocks.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
But you haven't driven a jeep yet.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
The Jeep Grand Cherokee, I've driven twice and I love it.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Okay, okay, I love.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
The Grand Cherokee. You can have the V eight, right,
you can have the hemy in it. It has the
FAMCM so you can look at your kids in the back.
On the screen. There's a passenger interactive screen, so the passenger. Like,
if my wife's driving and I'm sitting in the passenger seat,
I can enter something in front of me into the
navigation system and then ship it over to her screen,
(31:38):
which I think is so.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Cool cool, right, It's like the Bloomberg terminal exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
You can control what the kids are watching the like,
I think the Jeep has so many positives, but everyone
compares it to lower level cars, to you know, Toyotas
and Hondas and Fords, and not to range Rovers and Mercedes.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
This is something that you're going to have to wrestle
with with your ego, and I would have to do
the same because it's it's undeniable. There's a bit of
a status thing driving a luxury.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Sure, Sure a Mercedes or a range Rover has a
lot more.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Status, right, even if the Jeep is actually better suited
for everything you need.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Agreed. And also I would point out that I don't
necessarily want that kind of rep in my neighborhood as
the guy who has a range Rover. You know, I'd
rather be the guy who has a Jeep, okay, you know,
because it's more down to earth. I mean, the range
Rover is undeniably special. It's got the supercharged five liters
(32:44):
V eight, it's got the incredible leather interior. You know,
the infotainment system they've never gotten right, and I don't
think even the newest ones do.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
But well that's British for you.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
But it's But it's also a truck, right, It's a
body on frame truck, whereas the GLS and the Grand
Cherokee their unibodies, so they're big cars. So the Range Drover, oh,
the most important thing to me. I should mention that
only Range Rover and BMW have in the X five.
And I don't know why anyone else everyone else doesn't
(33:15):
jump on this bandwagon. They had the split tailgate.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
Back in the day. Also a lot of manufacturers had
split tailgates you could pull open at least the back
window of a jeep of the Olderokees and Wagoneers. I
don't know why more people don't do that. It must
be a safety thing, like the reason no one does
suicide doors anymore.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Wow, you know, I never thought about that. But that's
a really interesting thing because I remember on high school
of course that was a big thing.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
All right, what else have we got to look forward
to for next week. Have you got anything on the docket.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
I'm going to go drive a Hyperion car with Supercar Blondie.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
What is Hyperion It's a it's a supercar.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
It's a very random supercar, you know, multimillion dollar car
and she's got one here in LA and we're going
to go drive it together.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
Supercar Blondie is like Instagram presence. I know her because
I follow her Instagram.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
She is.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Let me just tell you she has a major media
conglomerate that she has built with her husband Nick Alex
and Nick Hershey. So there are quite a few people
who really like what they do. So I'm really looking
forward to that, among other things.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Well, I've just googled it and Hyperion XP one a
hydrogen powered one off sports car developed and manufactured by
American California based automobile manufacturer Hyperion Motors.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
I will report back in full.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Well I look forward to hearing about that, Yeah, and
I will next week. I'll tell you how my week
with the Mercedes GLS four fifty four Mattic has fared.
I'm excited to put in two rear facing car seats.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Oh, that'll be fun.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Can you you put that on like a timer and
let me know how long that takes.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
I think, I think it'll be pretty quick. I'm I'm
very adept at that it is gonna be kind of
a bummer. I'm not having the black Wing anymore and
not having the I five. By the way, the BMW
I five. I wish i'd driven it more. I didn't
know how good it was until I was a few
days in to my loan and the thing flies and
it is solid. I mean it is built like a rock.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
How's the sound system?
Speaker 1 (35:30):
So, in terms of the music, sound system was okay.
I was just playing The Grateful Dead kind of on
not a high high level. But the fake sound I.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Love no.
Speaker 5 (35:43):
What.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I've become the biggest fan of fake sound and evs.
I don't know why they have a great fake roar
when you put it into sports mode and you just
blast it down the Henry Hudson.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
I'm speechless. I'm speechless. I'm very surprised to hear you
the mopark. You're right saying that you love this the synthetic.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
I should be more of a purist, but I will
say I just I know I think the thing is
I would get sick of it after multiple weeks of it.
But every time I drive like the Mercedes EQS, I
love the fake sound they had, like a lion roar. Yeah,
And now in this BMW I five, I just it's
it's so much fun. It makes me want to put
(36:24):
the pedal down even further more often. All Right, well,
I guess that does it for this week. Join us,
same time, same place next week, and definitely give us
an email.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
The email is hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net, Hot
pursuit all one word, all lowercase at Bloomberg b e.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Erg dot net.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
I'm Matt Miller
Speaker 3 (36:46):
And I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is hot Pursuit
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