October 25, 2022 • 44 mins
Michelle and Dr. Mariel are healing holistically! Dr, Mariel shares what moved her to move from Western treatment to holistic treatment and intergenerational trauma. She also helps us identify if we’re really in a relationship with a narcissist.
For access to Dr. Mariel’s courses, visit: https://www.drmarielbuque.com/
Follow Dr. Mariel Buque on Instagram: @dr.marielbuque
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Instagram: @MichelleWilliams
Twitter: @RealMichelleW
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
My Heart Radio and The Black Effect. Hey, how y'all doing?
(00:20):
There are just certain people that you follow them on
social media and all is well. They're great, They're knowledgeable, soul, resourceful,
and maybe they're a doctor, psychiatrist, therapist, yoga instructor, and
you meet them in person and they are just as
beautiful and lovely in person as they come across on
(00:41):
their social media. And I am so glad to be
talking with Dr Mary A. Bouquet. She's really beautiful and
she is a psychologist, a holistic psychologist, and I'm glad
that she's going to be talking with us today. She's
such a well of information, a deep well of information
(01:01):
and knowledge and practice that I want to make sure
that I take advantage of these awesome experts while I
have them. So I'm excited that you guys get to
hear the conversation between me and Dr Mary el Bouquet,
and that's coming up right after this break. Hello everybody,
(01:23):
and welcome to another week another episode of Checking In.
How have y'all been doing? Have y'all been checking in? Well?
If not, this episode, you are gonna be so glad
that you did. You obviously checking in because you're listening,
but I just mean checking in and other areas of
the heart, mind, body and soul. And I am so
(01:47):
glad that I've got someone on here that I've been
following for a while now. She is a psychologist and
her name is Dr Mariel Bouquet. She's been featured on
the Today Show, Allure, a BC essence self. She has
been EveryWare. Please welcome Dr Mariel Bouquet. Thank you, thank you,
(02:09):
thank you for having me just and I'm so excited
to be in conversation with you and to be checking
in together. This is great. Yes, now I could be wrong.
Is Bouquet? Is that creole? It is? Yeah? My grandmother
was actually from Haiti, and so I'm the only person
(02:32):
that's remaining in our family that's kept the name. So
everyone else in my family is actually Perez. Yeah, really
I wanted to keep the creole name. When you said Perez,
I'm hearing it all. Yeah, I'm a blend Dominican and Haitian. Oh,
Dominican and Haitians, So give us our background. Where do
(02:52):
you call home? So I'm actually originally from North New Jersey.
And so when I came from the Dominican Republic, we
came straight to Nork and I spent twenty three years
of my life there. So from age five until I'm
like really kind of giving you the timeline. So everybody
now knows my age. I'm not even she's eighteen. She
(03:15):
just went she was like she was a prodigy. She's
a child prodigy. Um, but yeah, you know, like after
after you know, college, then I went back to school
for psychology and that's like eight years to get the
masters and the doctorate. And I did a lot of
that in New York. And so I moved to New
(03:36):
York for a couple of years, and then I moved
back to New Jersey. So now I'm back home. Got it. Um,
y'all can't see her background. But it is giving me
everything I need, like a resort, all the whites. It's
given me resort, It's given me cozy, It's give me relaxation,
something that you seem to be intentional about doing and
(04:00):
spreading on our timelines. Now, are you a holistic psychologist? Yes,
I am, so I practice with this framework in mind,
which was very much driven by my work that I
did mostly in New York. Like when I was seeing
like a lot of our people weren't really healing from
just your standard psychology, I was like, something else is
(04:24):
needed here, and so that's when I started, you know,
doing more of the global work is what I call it,
our holistic work around mental health. Kudos to you for
seeing that, because you could have stayed in what we
call the normal practice and is it western is a
considered mester. Stayed in that, taking your clients and the
(04:47):
patients and knowing that, yeah, you're not really seeing a change,
not saying that you don't ever see a change in
western medicine. I'm not. We're not saying that at all.
But I'm wondering how many other practitioners feel the way
you do, but they're choosing to stay there. Yeah, because
it's working. My uncle went to school, he is a physician.
(05:08):
Family practice is his specialty, and for a season he
definitely went into holistic care and that was one of
the best decisions that he'd ever ever done. And it
was good to also see people of color in the
community how he was treating them with holistic care, because,
(05:28):
like you said, there were certain things that just standards
of practice just wasn't working. I mean, if it's not working,
then we gotta we gotta really like look at the
entire system, right, like everything that we've learned, if it's
not working for specific communities, and we have to I
think our due diligence as clinicians is to say, we
(05:50):
have to do right by our community, and we have
to do right by the people that we taken off
to care for, and that means that we have to
look globally what has already worked to get people better
and implement that into our practices. So holistic psychology, but
of course I'm sure you still have to merge some
(06:12):
of a lot of you know, what was practical learned
in school, the science, because it's holistic still considered science.
You know, I think that the area of psychology is
still trying to wrap its head around the holistic methodology.
So I think, you know, for people like me, like
we think about, like, well, who determined what science is?
(06:35):
Because we have like generations, like I mean, like so
many generations of people that have been doing things like
sound medicine or you know, dancing circles and like a
lot of different practices that also helped to relieve stress.
Out of the body, and there's a scientific mechanism in
that too. But now is when we're starting to apply
(06:57):
neural science and we're starting to apply genetics and our
understanding of cellular memory into those practices and making them
fit into the Western medicine framework to say, okay, these
are actually okay to practice. Wow, you know you are
an intergenerational trauma expert, and I know what that is.
(07:20):
But maybe someone listening as like, what is what intergenerational?
So you can break down the word intergenerational? Yes, in
your generation trauma. Yes. I love that. We're like, you know,
creating a learning moment to for folks because this is
so necessary. And uh, intergenerational trauma is a very unique
(07:43):
type of trauma because it's the one trauma category that
actually includes not only what happened to you in your lifetime,
but also what happened before you. So there is an
element of biology and genetics that we now understand is
there before a person is even born, literally before a
(08:04):
person is conceived. The actual genes that come from both parents,
those genes, if they are representative of a lot of stress,
then those genes coming together to make the baby create
an emotional foundation for that baby where they have an
emotional vulnerability to stress. So now if that baby goes
(08:25):
through a lifetime where they're being bullied or maybe there's
a lot of life transitions, there's a divorce, and there's
you know, they have a turbulent relationship, and now they
have their own traumas inside of their life. They had
that emotional vulnerability which was the genetic biological piece, and
now they have all this stuff happening in their lives,
and now what happens is that they are in trauma
(08:46):
and they're continuing the cycle. Wow. So just like you
can have a predisposition, say if your parents were an
addict m H, if you both to have the disposition
to stress, the child can also have it. I need
(09:07):
to see whoever I'm dating, if their possibility to make
for a child, how much stress you got? Right? Right?
What are you doing your therapy? That's usually the first question, right,
Like are you doing things for your wellness, for your
for your betterment, your emotional betterment? Are you doing things
for balance? Right? Like all of those things I think
(09:29):
are like such essential questions for the single folks that
are out there, right, Like all of us need to
like really have an understanding of how is this person
tilting the scale and creating a balance so that when
it comes time for conception or even if you know, um,
when it comes time for partnership, that there is already
a balanced present. That's so good. So it's not it's
(09:51):
like not only how do you handle stress? How did
your parents handle stress? Exactly? Because some of how we
handle it is what we saw, what we learned as
a result of what we saw, Right, So the questions
don't need to be limited. What shall fight go? Okay,
all right, you know where'd you go to school? What
(10:12):
are your believes? It's like like you said, hey, do
you believe in therapy? M even prior to us getting
into that question, because sometimes I think that tends to
stop people at their tracks. You can get like some
bits of information by saying, like what do you do
in your morning routine? This person can tell you that
(10:33):
they're meditating, or that they're slowing down of their morning
in some way, in some mindful way, Like all those
things are already telling us like, Okay, you're prioritizing your
mental health. I'm about that life, I know, I know.
And first of all, you're absolutely beautiful and absolutely amazing.
I love, love, love, love love when you do your
(10:56):
post they're so informational, but yeah, not intimidating. Yes, I
love that it's being received that way. Yes. Do you
do private one on one sessions? Private practice? I'm sorry, Yeah,
Now I'm doing group coaching where I'm teaching people different
mechanisms for their own healing. So I'm doing a lot
(11:19):
of that in like a course kind of format, but
it's more group coaching and more like orienting people around
their healing. Mm mmmmmm mmmm. So not only that group
therapy sessions, you have definitely focused on the advancement of
culturally responsive therapeutic practices that affirm the lived experience of
(11:40):
black and indigenous people of color. Tell us why there
is a difference. It's a big, really big difference. There
are different things that are part of what's ingrained in
the culture of anybody who falls under the category of
people of color that it's important to understand in the
(12:02):
context of therapy because whenever there isn't an understanding of
the cultural nuances that we have in our in our lives,
small words or gestures that are like just typical in
our communities that can be very disruptive in the process
of therapy. So if a person is black identified and
they're saying, you know, to a therapist like that is
(12:25):
so dope, and you know, the therapist has to stop
them and say like, well, what is dope or what
you know? Can you explain that to me? That already
is a moment when now the client is having to
educate the therapist about a cultural nuance that's something that's
important for them to know. And it's just like so
simple in our community, is just like part of the language,
(12:45):
but it happens more often than you think. It's something
that creates that disruption. Then it's creating a disruption and
what should be the healing that's happening in that space,
And it can go from that to like so many
other things. Right, there's so many cultural nuances that are
really missed by people who aren't understanding of our community
and culture. And so a lot of the work that
(13:06):
I've done mostly like in the research world or in
I used to also teach in the university where I
graduated from, was a professor there, and so I would
teach the students that were about to be therapists how
to understand the communities that they were going to be serving,
because I wanted for them to enter those communities with
(13:28):
this much knowledge about who we are, and to also
not see us from places of stereotypes or see us
in very like demonized way that could also make us
more unwell and re traumatize us, but instead look at
us in a very human way. Got it. I have
to thank my therapist, and I could just tell by
some of the conversations that we've had that she definitely
(13:52):
is for community. It just endears me. She's just not
for one part to their socioeconomic status, but she serves everybody,
all faiths, all cultures, all colors. I mean, it's been
beautiful just to see even the impact that she's had
(14:13):
on my life. I was like, oh, I want to
invite you to my wedding one day. She's like, yeah,
probably will be able to go. But I was like, oh, shucks,
I forgot there's the boundaries. But you know, I'm sure
that you know it's such as a heart for her
to feel like you see the dedication that you know
(14:34):
she she provides in the work right, and I think
that that's something that even when we're not able to
break that boundary because there's that you know, therapeutic ethic
and all of that, and we feel like, gosh, I'm
really making a difference in this person's life in some way,
and that's so good like to us, that's like for
a lot of us, that is why we get into
this work is because, like I always say, people tend
(14:57):
to ask me, why did you get into this work?
And I always say, I did you? Yeah, yeah, well,
I mean I started off volunteering in New York, in
my hometown, and a lot of what I was seeing,
I was like, I want my people to heal. I
don't want this to be the status quo of who
we are. I would walk around my neighborhood and this
is like since I was a little girl, like and
(15:18):
all you see is trauma, there's so much like happening.
There's a lot also a lot of beauty and culture
and creativity and so much that's happening also in Nork. Always,
but I was always like this very intuitive child that
was soaked up a lot of the emotions that was
going on in my community, and I was like, people
are hurting so much here, and I really wanted my
people to heal. Somethings like I gotta do something about this,
(15:41):
And the way that I decided to do something was
first getting into therapy as a practice and then expanding
the knowledge and trying to destigmatize therapy through social mediums.
Did you always see yourself doing this or did you
just like, I'm just going to be a therapist. No,
(16:02):
I was not at This is actually my second career
because I never even knew that therapy was a thing.
Like growing up, nobody talks about therapy. So yeah, I
didn't know that therapy was like even something that people
went to first and then something that I could do
as a career. I had no idea. It actually just
happened when I started volunteering, and when I volunteered, more
(16:24):
and more started becoming more like mental health volunteer work,
and I was like, oh, I can make a career
out of helping my community in this way. And so
I actually left my my career in advertising to pursue
a doctorate in psychology. And we know what you can
make in advertising. You could went on to have an
(16:46):
advertising agency or be one of the top executives. So
that is true, true, true passion and walking in your purpose.
I think that's where that glow is from, you know,
because of the impact that you are having. You also
specialize in healing traumatic relationships. Kind of pivoting back to
(17:07):
what we were talking about as far as intergenerational trauma.
How we are in relationships and with some of them
have been so traumatic. Does it stem from some intergenerational trauma? Yeah,
a lot does. And I think people are just walking
around not being aware that they're holding these emotional vulnerabilities,
(17:27):
and then they're going into relationships that produce trauma. Not
just because the relationships have that dynamic within them, because
they can be like toxic or hurtful, but also because
they're so vulnerable and raw, like their emotions are like
so tender that it makes it so that they are
more susceptible to actually experiencing trauma. And then you know,
(17:52):
we have people that then have depression as a result,
anxiety as a result. All of us starts tying back
to that. People walk around and they're like, I'm depressed,
And when we start doing a lot of the digging work,
we start realizing, oh, you have a wound from your childhood.
You have a certain way that you've developed an attachment
(18:14):
style you have a way that you've been modeling your
trauma even to your own kids, because that's what was
modeled to you, and now we have three generations that
are exhibiting the very same trauma response. We got to
get into all of that because you're gonna perpetually be
depressed if we're not getting to the root. So a
(18:34):
lot of the work that I do is like root
based work. The person that is doing the work, have
you found that they feel isolated in a way because
sometimes you might be the only person in your family
that is getting these type of awakenings. I have found
myself saying like I don't want to be around that.
How do you encourage people to still be a part
(18:58):
or can you still be a part of a relationship
or a family when you're the only one doing the work.
You absolutely can be, but it is hard because your
mind is being open to a new way of being
and you're going back into spaces where people are still
in their wounds itself. And the way that it becomes
(19:19):
hard for people that are cycle breakers, that are doing
the work and then going back to their families is
that it starts creating also grief for them because they're like, Wow,
my mom lived an entire life like this and no
one came to tell her any different. And now I
feel the grief of the entirety of her life that
(19:39):
she had to live in suffering on top of my own.
And it becomes really heavy for people. So this is why,
you know, like trauma centered work is so important because
it starts to bring up really heavy wounds, and you know,
as a clinician, for me, it's really important to be
able to help a person to know how hold the wound,
(20:01):
how to hold the hurt, but also how to put
themselves back together so that they can feel like they
can still walk in a steady pace. That's so good
because a lots of times you're doing the work and
friends and family could be like, oh you change. You
think you all that because you're going to therapy and
(20:21):
you said something that I wrote it down, and you're like, no,
you're just walking into a new way of being. Everything
does not have to be a blow up. We can
actually have a disagreement peacefully versus the elevated volume which
is elevating your blood pressure. Especially that was of color.
We are a little passionate, we are, We definitely are
(20:44):
we got it's in the blood. It's in there, and
like that's just us. You know, you've got right to people. Man,
we're not even arguing. We just we're just passionate. Talk
about my daily life. But I got a lot of passionate.
It's like we got a little extra season. And on
(21:05):
the way we emote, it's not anger, it's not aggression,
but it's learning the difference between the two of Okay,
when the conversation does call for de escalation, it's like, okay,
this calls for a lowered voice because you might be
saying the right thing, but how I'm perceiving it because
you're yelling. I had one other psychologists on here. It
(21:30):
popped up because you talked about a new way of
being versus the other comfortable quote. Some of us like
to say, this is just how I am. It's just
how I am. This I've always been. It's just how
I am. It ain't gonna change. And if it ain't
gonna change, if you don't like it, you know that
whole you know. But so the new way of being
(21:52):
versus this is just how I am? What is that
person really saying? Dr I you know, because that's perxactly
where would go as a clinician, Like in my mind,
I would think, what is the fear that this person
is experiencing, what's the underlying message that they're saying to us?
And really what's happening in that moment is that they're saying,
(22:13):
I have never learned a different way. I don't have
the tools to be able to get out of these
old patterns even if I did. That is profoundly scary
to me. And I don't know if I trust myself
going through the healing work to get to the other side.
And so where I'm going to find comfort isn't saying
(22:34):
exactly where I am and just embracing the status quo.
And if we can look at the messaging underneath, I
think that offers for a lot of us a lot
of compassion for that person, because oftentimes we go on
the defense. We're like, well fine, like you just be
who you are, you know, like, and we get into
like we tussle. But if we actually can see that
the other person is having an emotional experience beyond what
(22:57):
they're saying, beyond that just them exhibiting like words that
are just acting as a barrier against their emotions, then
we have an opportunity to really see their humanity. That's
so good, and some of us we don't have that
kind of compassion until we've gone to therapy. Okay. Now,
had I not gone to therapy and I'm talking to
(23:17):
someone and I'm trying to encourage them about how they
respond to something, well, this is just how I am.
I end. In the past, I would have say you're
just lazy. M hmm. But when I ask you the
question of what are they really saying? Like you said,
they just don't know. This has just been their way
of being, versus saying they're lazy and don't want to change. Now,
(23:39):
if they want to change, they will realize that it's
going to take some work. And then some people are okay.
They will say, hey, I've been married fifty years with
this attitude, and it's like, well, the next twenty could
be more blissful. Hello. Now, just because you're staying in
something for fifty years that way don't mean you know,
(24:00):
and within those fifty years, you've had children, and now
those children have looked at how y'all have acted, and
now you see that's how they're acting in their relationships.
So you are so right it's cyclical. Yeah, and we've
got to Dr Bouquet that is helping to change it.
(24:23):
Hashtag tee therapy. Yes, I always have my tea handy.
I love te what's your favorite? Oh, my goodness, butterfly tea.
Flower tea is so delicious and people always get a
little shocked whenever I pour it because it's actually blue,
like this electric blue. But it actually tastes incredible, especially
(24:46):
when you had a little, honey, you had a little lemon.
It tastes like iced tea. Like I make iced tea
that's blue iced tea, and I also make it hot
and it is my jam. Honey, let's get into some
tea therapy. There's probably one word that's becoming very popular.
Do you know which word I'm gonna say? I have
(25:07):
like three, so I'm actually curious to which one you're
going to say, narcissist. I was thinking of toxic, which actually, yeah, yeah,
so toxic. Also, we're here, We're here it's he or
she is toxic. They're a narcissist. And I was just
reading something about how we got to be careful about
(25:28):
labeling people those words when they could just be mean
that day. Yeah, labels can can be very hert fun,
they can stay with somebody for a long time. Sime.
I'm glad you're adding that disclaimer. For sure. M absolutely so.
That word narcissist is just running rampant. It's like, is
everybody a narcissist? Actually, what is a narcissist? Because that's
(25:50):
I think some people are using it wrong. Yes, is overused,
for sure, that's what it is. Overused. I think it's
easy for us to say, like, oh, they think they're
hot stuff, like they're a narcissist, and quite frankly, like
it's so much more than that. When we think about narcissism,
we have to think about it on a spectrum. There
(26:11):
is such a thing as healthy narcissism, and then there's
toxic narcissism, which is what I think most people are
trying to reference to. But the narcissistic population that is
only like three per cent or so population of the
individuals that are out there in the world. There are
not a lot of people that are pure narcissists. There
(26:35):
are people that exhibit qualities that can be hurtful and toxic,
and many of us believe that it's narcissism. Like a
person can gohos to you, for example, and you can
already like go to well there are a narcissists. Well no,
they actually are exhibiting behavior that is not communicative. It's
behavior that's hurtful and it's toxic, but it isn't necessarily narcissism.
(27:00):
Narcissism is one a person is actually someone who perceives
themselves as being superior to others and treats other people accordingly,
and very often, believe it or not, people that are
narcissists are actually incredibly lonely, incredibly sad, incredibly depressed, and
(27:21):
most times when you see a narcissists in therapy, it's
because of those things. Because they're depressed, they're lonely, no
one wants to be around them, and they finally hit
rock bottom and they're like, I think any help. But
narcissism is basically the set of personality characteristics for a person.
They call itself a grandize, which means that the person
(27:41):
makes themselves to be better than anybody else, or they
believe themselves to be, and then they devalue people, they
invalidate them, gas like them. It's all of that and more.
All that was the other word to gaslight. That was
a big word to Dixie Chicks actually kind of got
some flak for a song I think was it called
(28:03):
gas lighter or a gaslight? And I just wanted your
take because social media, and as an expert, when you
see these words flying around, you're like, wait, I'm glad
there's awareness, but there are some people that are overusing it.
You're not an expert in it, and we're diagnosing people
like me, I've been guilty. There are in our succest
(28:28):
what's an easy go to right, Like it's like, well,
that's what it must be, right, So then it makes
it easy to see like why a person might behave
that way, But people are more complex than that. And
I've seen you do a few what couple on attachment,
That's another that I've been kind of learning. Attachment is
(28:48):
some of the root of it. Some of mine has
been anxiety, you know, or fear, but there are attachment detachment.
There's so much disassociation, Like I know, there's a lot
that we we actually suffer from or a lot of
things that are in our lives and we're just not aware.
(29:10):
You may have an insecure attachment because of whatever happens
and it's usually happened in childhood, and now you're walking
around having relationships that all kind of look the same,
and you're like, well, what is hold on? I'm the
coming thread, I'm the coming the nominator. I gotta really
look into myself and what is it about how I
(29:31):
attached to people or detached from people that can be
contributing to why these relationships don't last or why they
look the way they do. It's so good, please please,
you must follow her on her socials to get to me.
It's almost um. When you see someone like Dr Marra
(29:51):
Buk on social media, you're like, wow, therapy, you know,
getting on that so forth or talking to someone talking
to a psychologist. Some of it is can be painful,
and then some of it I found to be invigorating
when you discover something about yourself, when you be like
I've had many moments doctor where I've been like, that's
why I responded that way, and it helps me not
(30:12):
to do it. I don't do it again. It's like,
once I've had that, revelations like, oh, oh, isn't it awesome?
I love moments of enlightenment, especially when I share that
with somebody and we're and we're both like lightbulb moment together,
Like it's such a dope moment. And also I think
that what people don't realize is that when you have
those moments, it can free you. You literally get liberated
(30:36):
from old patterns. Like you said, like I'm not going
to do it again. I already know what that is,
and that's so powerful, super powerful. But I want to
ask you about what we're seeing. A lot of burnout. Yeah,
people were burnt out before the pandemic, but I don't
know if the pandemic made it worse. But they're suffering
from work burnout or from feeling unsafe in public. What
(31:01):
are you feeling that people are needing to feel safe,
People are really needing to go back into their bodies
and doing body center of practices. It's by a lot
of the work that I've been doing lately, and I
have reference to this in my book. I do it
in my courses everywhere, the tea time. There's a lot
(31:22):
of practices that I throw in there as mental health
tips that are around the area of how do you
get back into your body and create a sense of
safety in your own body and a safe place to
go home? Too, because we have to think about what happened.
We were in a collective trauma. Everybody was in it.
We were all in a heavy social suppression. We were
(31:43):
in a persistent state of fear, which is what can
actually make trauma surface. And then we decided to then
create a transition back into a world where a lot
of that trauma wasn't even reconciled and dealt with. And
so a lot of us are walking around saying we're
mentally exhausted, when in reality it's the remnants of having
(32:06):
been in a collective trauma state. Okay, And so whenever
it comes to trauma based work, what we need to
do is get back into our bodies. And that means,
like you have to I know, we talked about deep
breathing all the time, but we have to do the
deep breathing. We have to do other things that can
create a rhythm of relaxation in our bodies, like rocking.
(32:28):
We have to hum, We have to listen to like
binural beats that help us with specific frequencies so that
we can create a relaxed state in our bodies. The
sound bath meditations that I do, they are for that
as well. It's all of that. I wholeheartedly believe that
as a world, as a society, we need to get
(32:48):
back into those things. I did a sound bath, and
I promise shall I had some of the best sleep
m I fell asleep. But so is it the frequencies,
(33:08):
the sound? Is it? All of it in sound bad?
So they're these bowls, glass bowls. They're like made of
crystals of quartz and some are like made of brass.
The traditional Tibetan bowls are made of brass, and then
they've transitioned into the quarts bowls, which make a larger
(33:29):
sound and create a higher vibration, like when I'm in
my home, like the walls are like vibrating, Like it's
so powerful. And the thing about it is that those
vibrations make micro vibrations inside of our bodies. And if
you think about it, when we vibrate the body, it
almost creates an opportunity for like our stress hormones and
(33:50):
all of the things that were like overactive to just
find itself into a neutral state. So that's a part
of why it's so relaxing, because in act really create
those micro vibrations, and I actually, in the very moment
can create for you and opportunity to feel more relaxed.
So not only is it relaxed, but how have you
(34:11):
found it to be healing? The thing that I do
with my sound boxes that I integrate my therapeutic understanding
into the sound box themselves, So I help people to
extract whatever it is that they've been experiencing as far
as emotional pain, hold that at the center of their mind.
(34:31):
And when we're doing the sound bath, we're doing it
around that very emotional pain. So we're doing the work
of the mind, and then we're bringing in that body
practice of the sound bows into the work. So we're
like creating like a mind body experience because we're all
of that. We are mind body. So you know, yes,
(34:53):
we can work out and get the sweat, but there
are other things that we can do to really be
in tune and using what God gave, like courts that's
not man made right, that's like in the earth, And
there are so many healing things in the earth that
(35:13):
we're overlooking or not using or we've been spooked by. Well,
if I do this as some kind of spirit gonna
take over me and and guess what depended on who
your clinician is I'm gonna say, yes, it does depend
on the clinician and maybe the type of the source.
(35:36):
I'm using all kinds of words, Um, your technical you
know what I mean. So if you want to go
and have that type of spiritual experience, there is a place.
But if you are relaxation to have better sleep, you know. Now,
I do think there are parts of us that are
going through something spiritual in a spirit realm. You're being tormented.
(35:57):
And to me that God is nowhere in that. He's
nowhere in that. And Scripture says, you know, um, he
did not give us a spirit of fear, but of love,
peace and a sound mind. So if there's something tormenting
you that is spiritual, right, absolutely, and why not get
(36:20):
into you know, the spiritual side of you if we
were given that as as a part of just globally
who we are. When I got into like holistic practice,
a lot of the reasons why, you know, I said,
like this is where the sauces, if you may write,
is because I was seeing that a lot of people
we were doing like a lot of mind based work.
(36:41):
And I was even like inheriting like clients that had
been with clinicians for over two decades of doing work.
Imagine that, and I'm like, well, what is what has
not been working for two decades that this person is
still experiencing depression. I mean, when we were able to
really get into it, like this person was living in
uninflamed body because their body was experiencing all of the
(37:03):
emotions at once all the time. And they're literally literally
walking around on fire, right. And then they're also they
have the spiritual disconnection. It's a disconnection from self, from others,
and from God. They're walking around in a dissociative state.
And if all of that is happening, then what we
need to do is mind, body, soul. Honey, you just
(37:25):
named the three pillars of checking in, checking in with yourself,
checking in with others, checking in with God. Yeah, those
are the three pillars of checking in. I promise you
checking in with yourself, others, God, Yeah, I know, And
I think you know, um, I think another thing that
you say and checking in that I think is really essential.
And that really hit me as a clinician has been
(37:47):
you know, how you did not sit there and define
yourself by way of depression. It wasn't like all of you.
And I think that that's something that people, especially individuals
like whom I mentioned, walking around with twenty plus years
of being depressed. It literally starts becoming that person they
self identify as a depressed person. And I think when
(38:10):
they come into treatment, clinicians can't see beyond that, and
we forget to see the whole human and the fact
that we need to do a whole overhaul of what
has been happening in this person's life in order to
free them from their emotional pain. Dr Boukay, you're about
to start apart two. As far as I'm here for it,
we got. There's so much to say. I'm here for it.
(38:31):
We got. You know, I got a lot of healing
to do. Listen, I have some stuff I would want
to run buy you offline. Sorry, guys, as related to
that twenty years and depression. I've got some stuff online.
I want to ask before I bring it to the listeners,
because I always want to make sure I have died
in my eyes and cross my teas and consult with
a professional. Y'all. We were so blessed to have the
(38:54):
beautiful Dr Mary A. Bouquet. Follow her on Instagram at
Dr dot M A r I E. L b U
q u E. You mentioned your books, Where can we
find you? If they're like, hey, I want to go
on our website right now and get product books. Yeah,
(39:14):
so right now, most of what I'm doing is courses
and it's Dr Mary L. Bouquet dot com. And then
I have my book that's coming out um in a
couple of months. Yeah, and that book is is a
healing guide for intergenerational trauma to help people to dissolve
the layered pain that they've been carrying around for generation.
Wait a minute, I'm on your links. You can't we
(39:36):
preorder it? Like now? It will be for pre order
in in a few so hopefully whenever it is, I can,
I can send it over and you know, we can
make it. Listen, I'm all for clicking that link and
adding to cart, inserting credit card and shipping information. I
love to support. I love to support, So I we
(40:00):
be on the lookout. And you guys, if you go
to her I g and go to her link tree.
She does have a course, as she said, healing from
traumatic relationships, talking about what is intergenerational trauma? Because sometimes
we only got forty five minutes with our guests. Oh
my gosh, seven stages of trauma bonding. Y'all think we
(40:20):
so in love. No, y'all both got the same traumas
that y'all got in comment, get healed of it, and
then you'll be like, wait a minute, I don't like
you see it. That's it's easy, okay, part of three.
That's part three. Dr. Thank you so much for joining us,
and you will give us a sneak peek of what
(40:42):
a sound bath is for someone who's like Michelle. You're
so passionate about yoga and sound baths and therapy. What
is this all about? Dr Mario Bouquet is going to
show us. Thanks again for checking in. Yes, thank you
for having me. It's been so wonderful. Wow. Listen. Yes,
(41:15):
she is a self proclaimed disruptor bringing psychology to people
of color. We keep emphasizing people of color because we
want you to know that getting peace of mind is
for you. Breaking out of dysfunction and intergenerational trauma is
for you. Don't let anybody think, oh, that's just for
(41:36):
rich people, that's just for white people. No, it is
for you. Walking that freedom mentally, spiritually, emotionally. Come on,
come on, come on. I refuse to believe that just
because maybe you were born into some dysfunction that that
has to be your life's portion or your children's life
portion as well as we used to saying Church, the
(42:00):
devil is a live Okay. So I'm so glad that
Dr Mario Okay just came on here with so much
grace and knowledge. And even after we got off the
official call, I just asked her some other questions regarding depression.
And there's a part two coming to this. There is
definitely a part two. So again, thank you for listening,
(42:21):
and I hope episode by episode your hope tank is
being filled, your love tank is being filled, and that
the pain that you're going through that I pray that
when you listen to this episode that it reminds you
that you can make it and that you can overcome.
I promise you all. I'm sitting in the seat of
someone who knows that it does get better, the pain,
(42:44):
the weight of it. When you do some of the work,
do as much work as you can, I'm telling you
you feel better. It does get better. All right. Thank
you again. Week after week, y'all tune in week after
week you're downloading episodes, and I can't thank you enough
for the love. I can't thank you enough to my
Black Affect Podcast family, everybody that's got a podcast on
(43:07):
this network, to Charlotte Maine, Dolly Hockey, Samantha Nicole, Angela Holly,
thank you all so much for making sure that I
get to do what I do every week. We can't
do without y'all, the listeners who subscribe and download. Alright,
I love you, love you, love you, love you. I
love you to life. Checking In with Michelle Williams is
(43:50):
a production of I Heart Radio and The Black Effect.
For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I
heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
My Heart Radio and The Black Effect. Hey, how y'all doing?
(00:20):
There are just certain people that you follow them on
social media and all is well. They're great, They're knowledgeable, soul, resourceful,
and maybe they're a doctor, psychiatrist, therapist, yoga instructor, and
you meet them in person and they are just as
beautiful and lovely in person as they come across on
(00:41):
their social media. And I am so glad to be
talking with Dr Mary A. Bouquet. She's really beautiful and
she is a psychologist, a holistic psychologist, and I'm glad
that she's going to be talking with us today. She's
such a well of information, a deep well of information
(01:01):
and knowledge and practice that I want to make sure
that I take advantage of these awesome experts while I
have them. So I'm excited that you guys get to
hear the conversation between me and Dr Mary el Bouquet,
and that's coming up right after this break. Hello everybody,
(01:23):
and welcome to another week another episode of Checking In.
How have y'all been doing? Have y'all been checking in? Well?
If not, this episode, you are gonna be so glad
that you did. You obviously checking in because you're listening,
but I just mean checking in and other areas of
the heart, mind, body and soul. And I am so
(01:47):
glad that I've got someone on here that I've been
following for a while now. She is a psychologist and
her name is Dr Mariel Bouquet. She's been featured on
the Today Show, Allure, a BC essence self. She has
been EveryWare. Please welcome Dr Mariel Bouquet. Thank you, thank you,
(02:09):
thank you for having me just and I'm so excited
to be in conversation with you and to be checking
in together. This is great. Yes, now I could be wrong.
Is Bouquet? Is that creole? It is? Yeah? My grandmother
was actually from Haiti, and so I'm the only person
(02:32):
that's remaining in our family that's kept the name. So
everyone else in my family is actually Perez. Yeah, really
I wanted to keep the creole name. When you said Perez,
I'm hearing it all. Yeah, I'm a blend Dominican and Haitian. Oh,
Dominican and Haitians, So give us our background. Where do
(02:52):
you call home? So I'm actually originally from North New Jersey.
And so when I came from the Dominican Republic, we
came straight to Nork and I spent twenty three years
of my life there. So from age five until I'm
like really kind of giving you the timeline. So everybody
now knows my age. I'm not even she's eighteen. She
(03:15):
just went she was like she was a prodigy. She's
a child prodigy. Um, but yeah, you know, like after
after you know, college, then I went back to school
for psychology and that's like eight years to get the
masters and the doctorate. And I did a lot of
that in New York. And so I moved to New
(03:36):
York for a couple of years, and then I moved
back to New Jersey. So now I'm back home. Got it. Um,
y'all can't see her background. But it is giving me
everything I need, like a resort, all the whites. It's
given me resort, It's given me cozy, It's give me relaxation,
something that you seem to be intentional about doing and
(04:00):
spreading on our timelines. Now, are you a holistic psychologist? Yes,
I am, so I practice with this framework in mind,
which was very much driven by my work that I
did mostly in New York. Like when I was seeing
like a lot of our people weren't really healing from
just your standard psychology, I was like, something else is
(04:24):
needed here, and so that's when I started, you know,
doing more of the global work is what I call it,
our holistic work around mental health. Kudos to you for
seeing that, because you could have stayed in what we
call the normal practice and is it western is a
considered mester. Stayed in that, taking your clients and the
(04:47):
patients and knowing that, yeah, you're not really seeing a change,
not saying that you don't ever see a change in
western medicine. I'm not. We're not saying that at all.
But I'm wondering how many other practitioners feel the way
you do, but they're choosing to stay there. Yeah, because
it's working. My uncle went to school, he is a physician.
(05:08):
Family practice is his specialty, and for a season he
definitely went into holistic care and that was one of
the best decisions that he'd ever ever done. And it
was good to also see people of color in the
community how he was treating them with holistic care, because,
(05:28):
like you said, there were certain things that just standards
of practice just wasn't working. I mean, if it's not working,
then we gotta we gotta really like look at the
entire system, right, like everything that we've learned, if it's
not working for specific communities, and we have to I
think our due diligence as clinicians is to say, we
(05:50):
have to do right by our community, and we have
to do right by the people that we taken off
to care for, and that means that we have to
look globally what has already worked to get people better
and implement that into our practices. So holistic psychology, but
of course I'm sure you still have to merge some
(06:12):
of a lot of you know, what was practical learned
in school, the science, because it's holistic still considered science.
You know, I think that the area of psychology is
still trying to wrap its head around the holistic methodology.
So I think, you know, for people like me, like
we think about, like, well, who determined what science is?
(06:35):
Because we have like generations, like I mean, like so
many generations of people that have been doing things like
sound medicine or you know, dancing circles and like a
lot of different practices that also helped to relieve stress.
Out of the body, and there's a scientific mechanism in
that too. But now is when we're starting to apply
(06:57):
neural science and we're starting to apply genetics and our
understanding of cellular memory into those practices and making them
fit into the Western medicine framework to say, okay, these
are actually okay to practice. Wow, you know you are
an intergenerational trauma expert, and I know what that is.
(07:20):
But maybe someone listening as like, what is what intergenerational?
So you can break down the word intergenerational? Yes, in
your generation trauma. Yes. I love that. We're like, you know,
creating a learning moment to for folks because this is
so necessary. And uh, intergenerational trauma is a very unique
(07:43):
type of trauma because it's the one trauma category that
actually includes not only what happened to you in your lifetime,
but also what happened before you. So there is an
element of biology and genetics that we now understand is
there before a person is even born, literally before a
(08:04):
person is conceived. The actual genes that come from both parents,
those genes, if they are representative of a lot of stress,
then those genes coming together to make the baby create
an emotional foundation for that baby where they have an
emotional vulnerability to stress. So now if that baby goes
(08:25):
through a lifetime where they're being bullied or maybe there's
a lot of life transitions, there's a divorce, and there's
you know, they have a turbulent relationship, and now they
have their own traumas inside of their life. They had
that emotional vulnerability which was the genetic biological piece, and
now they have all this stuff happening in their lives,
and now what happens is that they are in trauma
(08:46):
and they're continuing the cycle. Wow. So just like you
can have a predisposition, say if your parents were an
addict m H, if you both to have the disposition
to stress, the child can also have it. I need
(09:07):
to see whoever I'm dating, if their possibility to make
for a child, how much stress you got? Right? Right?
What are you doing your therapy? That's usually the first question, right,
Like are you doing things for your wellness, for your
for your betterment, your emotional betterment? Are you doing things
for balance? Right? Like all of those things I think
(09:29):
are like such essential questions for the single folks that
are out there, right, Like all of us need to
like really have an understanding of how is this person
tilting the scale and creating a balance so that when
it comes time for conception or even if you know, um,
when it comes time for partnership, that there is already
a balanced present. That's so good. So it's not it's
(09:51):
like not only how do you handle stress? How did
your parents handle stress? Exactly? Because some of how we
handle it is what we saw, what we learned as
a result of what we saw, Right, So the questions
don't need to be limited. What shall fight go? Okay,
all right, you know where'd you go to school? What
(10:12):
are your believes? It's like like you said, hey, do
you believe in therapy? M even prior to us getting
into that question, because sometimes I think that tends to
stop people at their tracks. You can get like some
bits of information by saying, like what do you do
in your morning routine? This person can tell you that
(10:33):
they're meditating, or that they're slowing down of their morning
in some way, in some mindful way, Like all those
things are already telling us like, Okay, you're prioritizing your
mental health. I'm about that life, I know, I know.
And first of all, you're absolutely beautiful and absolutely amazing.
I love, love, love, love love when you do your
(10:56):
post they're so informational, but yeah, not intimidating. Yes, I
love that it's being received that way. Yes. Do you
do private one on one sessions? Private practice? I'm sorry, Yeah,
Now I'm doing group coaching where I'm teaching people different
mechanisms for their own healing. So I'm doing a lot
(11:19):
of that in like a course kind of format, but
it's more group coaching and more like orienting people around
their healing. Mm mmmmmm mmmm. So not only that group
therapy sessions, you have definitely focused on the advancement of
culturally responsive therapeutic practices that affirm the lived experience of
(11:40):
black and indigenous people of color. Tell us why there
is a difference. It's a big, really big difference. There
are different things that are part of what's ingrained in
the culture of anybody who falls under the category of
people of color that it's important to understand in the
(12:02):
context of therapy because whenever there isn't an understanding of
the cultural nuances that we have in our in our lives,
small words or gestures that are like just typical in
our communities that can be very disruptive in the process
of therapy. So if a person is black identified and
they're saying, you know, to a therapist like that is
(12:25):
so dope, and you know, the therapist has to stop
them and say like, well, what is dope or what
you know? Can you explain that to me? That already
is a moment when now the client is having to
educate the therapist about a cultural nuance that's something that's
important for them to know. And it's just like so
simple in our community, is just like part of the language,
(12:45):
but it happens more often than you think. It's something
that creates that disruption. Then it's creating a disruption and
what should be the healing that's happening in that space,
And it can go from that to like so many
other things. Right, there's so many cultural nuances that are
really missed by people who aren't understanding of our community
and culture. And so a lot of the work that
(13:06):
I've done mostly like in the research world or in
I used to also teach in the university where I
graduated from, was a professor there, and so I would
teach the students that were about to be therapists how
to understand the communities that they were going to be serving,
because I wanted for them to enter those communities with
(13:28):
this much knowledge about who we are, and to also
not see us from places of stereotypes or see us
in very like demonized way that could also make us
more unwell and re traumatize us, but instead look at
us in a very human way. Got it. I have
to thank my therapist, and I could just tell by
some of the conversations that we've had that she definitely
(13:52):
is for community. It just endears me. She's just not
for one part to their socioeconomic status, but she serves everybody,
all faiths, all cultures, all colors. I mean, it's been
beautiful just to see even the impact that she's had
(14:13):
on my life. I was like, oh, I want to
invite you to my wedding one day. She's like, yeah,
probably will be able to go. But I was like, oh, shucks,
I forgot there's the boundaries. But you know, I'm sure
that you know it's such as a heart for her
to feel like you see the dedication that you know
(14:34):
she she provides in the work right, and I think
that that's something that even when we're not able to
break that boundary because there's that you know, therapeutic ethic
and all of that, and we feel like, gosh, I'm
really making a difference in this person's life in some way,
and that's so good like to us, that's like for
a lot of us, that is why we get into
this work is because, like I always say, people tend
(14:57):
to ask me, why did you get into this work?
And I always say, I did you? Yeah, yeah, well,
I mean I started off volunteering in New York, in
my hometown, and a lot of what I was seeing,
I was like, I want my people to heal. I
don't want this to be the status quo of who
we are. I would walk around my neighborhood and this
is like since I was a little girl, like and
(15:18):
all you see is trauma, there's so much like happening.
There's a lot also a lot of beauty and culture
and creativity and so much that's happening also in Nork. Always,
but I was always like this very intuitive child that
was soaked up a lot of the emotions that was
going on in my community, and I was like, people
are hurting so much here, and I really wanted my
people to heal. Somethings like I gotta do something about this,
(15:41):
And the way that I decided to do something was
first getting into therapy as a practice and then expanding
the knowledge and trying to destigmatize therapy through social mediums.
Did you always see yourself doing this or did you
just like, I'm just going to be a therapist. No,
(16:02):
I was not at This is actually my second career
because I never even knew that therapy was a thing.
Like growing up, nobody talks about therapy. So yeah, I
didn't know that therapy was like even something that people
went to first and then something that I could do
as a career. I had no idea. It actually just
happened when I started volunteering, and when I volunteered, more
(16:24):
and more started becoming more like mental health volunteer work,
and I was like, oh, I can make a career
out of helping my community in this way. And so
I actually left my my career in advertising to pursue
a doctorate in psychology. And we know what you can
make in advertising. You could went on to have an
(16:46):
advertising agency or be one of the top executives. So
that is true, true, true passion and walking in your purpose.
I think that's where that glow is from, you know,
because of the impact that you are having. You also
specialize in healing traumatic relationships. Kind of pivoting back to
(17:07):
what we were talking about as far as intergenerational trauma.
How we are in relationships and with some of them
have been so traumatic. Does it stem from some intergenerational trauma? Yeah,
a lot does. And I think people are just walking
around not being aware that they're holding these emotional vulnerabilities,
(17:27):
and then they're going into relationships that produce trauma. Not
just because the relationships have that dynamic within them, because
they can be like toxic or hurtful, but also because
they're so vulnerable and raw, like their emotions are like
so tender that it makes it so that they are
more susceptible to actually experiencing trauma. And then you know,
(17:52):
we have people that then have depression as a result,
anxiety as a result. All of us starts tying back
to that. People walk around and they're like, I'm depressed,
And when we start doing a lot of the digging work,
we start realizing, oh, you have a wound from your childhood.
You have a certain way that you've developed an attachment
(18:14):
style you have a way that you've been modeling your
trauma even to your own kids, because that's what was
modeled to you, and now we have three generations that
are exhibiting the very same trauma response. We got to
get into all of that because you're gonna perpetually be
depressed if we're not getting to the root. So a
(18:34):
lot of the work that I do is like root
based work. The person that is doing the work, have
you found that they feel isolated in a way because
sometimes you might be the only person in your family
that is getting these type of awakenings. I have found
myself saying like I don't want to be around that.
How do you encourage people to still be a part
(18:58):
or can you still be a part of a relationship
or a family when you're the only one doing the work.
You absolutely can be, but it is hard because your
mind is being open to a new way of being
and you're going back into spaces where people are still
in their wounds itself. And the way that it becomes
(19:19):
hard for people that are cycle breakers, that are doing
the work and then going back to their families is
that it starts creating also grief for them because they're like, Wow,
my mom lived an entire life like this and no
one came to tell her any different. And now I
feel the grief of the entirety of her life that
(19:39):
she had to live in suffering on top of my own.
And it becomes really heavy for people. So this is why,
you know, like trauma centered work is so important because
it starts to bring up really heavy wounds, and you know,
as a clinician, for me, it's really important to be
able to help a person to know how hold the wound,
(20:01):
how to hold the hurt, but also how to put
themselves back together so that they can feel like they
can still walk in a steady pace. That's so good
because a lots of times you're doing the work and
friends and family could be like, oh you change. You
think you all that because you're going to therapy and
(20:21):
you said something that I wrote it down, and you're like, no,
you're just walking into a new way of being. Everything
does not have to be a blow up. We can
actually have a disagreement peacefully versus the elevated volume which
is elevating your blood pressure. Especially that was of color.
We are a little passionate, we are, We definitely are
(20:44):
we got it's in the blood. It's in there, and
like that's just us. You know, you've got right to people. Man,
we're not even arguing. We just we're just passionate. Talk
about my daily life. But I got a lot of passionate.
It's like we got a little extra season. And on
(21:05):
the way we emote, it's not anger, it's not aggression,
but it's learning the difference between the two of Okay,
when the conversation does call for de escalation, it's like, okay,
this calls for a lowered voice because you might be
saying the right thing, but how I'm perceiving it because
you're yelling. I had one other psychologists on here. It
(21:30):
popped up because you talked about a new way of
being versus the other comfortable quote. Some of us like
to say, this is just how I am. It's just
how I am. This I've always been. It's just how
I am. It ain't gonna change. And if it ain't
gonna change, if you don't like it, you know that
whole you know. But so the new way of being
(21:52):
versus this is just how I am? What is that
person really saying? Dr I you know, because that's perxactly
where would go as a clinician, Like in my mind,
I would think, what is the fear that this person
is experiencing, what's the underlying message that they're saying to us?
And really what's happening in that moment is that they're saying,
(22:13):
I have never learned a different way. I don't have
the tools to be able to get out of these
old patterns even if I did. That is profoundly scary
to me. And I don't know if I trust myself
going through the healing work to get to the other side.
And so where I'm going to find comfort isn't saying
(22:34):
exactly where I am and just embracing the status quo.
And if we can look at the messaging underneath, I
think that offers for a lot of us a lot
of compassion for that person, because oftentimes we go on
the defense. We're like, well fine, like you just be
who you are, you know, like, and we get into
like we tussle. But if we actually can see that
the other person is having an emotional experience beyond what
(22:57):
they're saying, beyond that just them exhibiting like words that
are just acting as a barrier against their emotions, then
we have an opportunity to really see their humanity. That's
so good, and some of us we don't have that
kind of compassion until we've gone to therapy. Okay. Now,
had I not gone to therapy and I'm talking to
(23:17):
someone and I'm trying to encourage them about how they
respond to something, well, this is just how I am.
I end. In the past, I would have say you're
just lazy. M hmm. But when I ask you the
question of what are they really saying? Like you said,
they just don't know. This has just been their way
of being, versus saying they're lazy and don't want to change. Now,
(23:39):
if they want to change, they will realize that it's
going to take some work. And then some people are okay.
They will say, hey, I've been married fifty years with
this attitude, and it's like, well, the next twenty could
be more blissful. Hello. Now, just because you're staying in
something for fifty years that way don't mean you know,
(24:00):
and within those fifty years, you've had children, and now
those children have looked at how y'all have acted, and
now you see that's how they're acting in their relationships.
So you are so right it's cyclical. Yeah, and we've
got to Dr Bouquet that is helping to change it.
(24:23):
Hashtag tee therapy. Yes, I always have my tea handy.
I love te what's your favorite? Oh, my goodness, butterfly tea.
Flower tea is so delicious and people always get a
little shocked whenever I pour it because it's actually blue,
like this electric blue. But it actually tastes incredible, especially
(24:46):
when you had a little, honey, you had a little lemon.
It tastes like iced tea. Like I make iced tea
that's blue iced tea, and I also make it hot
and it is my jam. Honey, let's get into some
tea therapy. There's probably one word that's becoming very popular.
Do you know which word I'm gonna say? I have
(25:07):
like three, so I'm actually curious to which one you're
going to say, narcissist. I was thinking of toxic, which actually, yeah, yeah,
so toxic. Also, we're here, We're here it's he or
she is toxic. They're a narcissist. And I was just
reading something about how we got to be careful about
(25:28):
labeling people those words when they could just be mean
that day. Yeah, labels can can be very hert fun,
they can stay with somebody for a long time. Sime.
I'm glad you're adding that disclaimer. For sure. M absolutely so.
That word narcissist is just running rampant. It's like, is
everybody a narcissist? Actually, what is a narcissist? Because that's
(25:50):
I think some people are using it wrong. Yes, is overused,
for sure, that's what it is. Overused. I think it's
easy for us to say, like, oh, they think they're
hot stuff, like they're a narcissist, and quite frankly, like
it's so much more than that. When we think about narcissism,
we have to think about it on a spectrum. There
(26:11):
is such a thing as healthy narcissism, and then there's
toxic narcissism, which is what I think most people are
trying to reference to. But the narcissistic population that is
only like three per cent or so population of the
individuals that are out there in the world. There are
not a lot of people that are pure narcissists. There
(26:35):
are people that exhibit qualities that can be hurtful and toxic,
and many of us believe that it's narcissism. Like a
person can gohos to you, for example, and you can
already like go to well there are a narcissists. Well no,
they actually are exhibiting behavior that is not communicative. It's
behavior that's hurtful and it's toxic, but it isn't necessarily narcissism.
(27:00):
Narcissism is one a person is actually someone who perceives
themselves as being superior to others and treats other people accordingly,
and very often, believe it or not, people that are
narcissists are actually incredibly lonely, incredibly sad, incredibly depressed, and
(27:21):
most times when you see a narcissists in therapy, it's
because of those things. Because they're depressed, they're lonely, no
one wants to be around them, and they finally hit
rock bottom and they're like, I think any help. But
narcissism is basically the set of personality characteristics for a person.
They call itself a grandize, which means that the person
(27:41):
makes themselves to be better than anybody else, or they
believe themselves to be, and then they devalue people, they
invalidate them, gas like them. It's all of that and more.
All that was the other word to gaslight. That was
a big word to Dixie Chicks actually kind of got
some flak for a song I think was it called
(28:03):
gas lighter or a gaslight? And I just wanted your
take because social media, and as an expert, when you
see these words flying around, you're like, wait, I'm glad
there's awareness, but there are some people that are overusing it.
You're not an expert in it, and we're diagnosing people
like me, I've been guilty. There are in our succest
(28:28):
what's an easy go to right, Like it's like, well,
that's what it must be, right, So then it makes
it easy to see like why a person might behave
that way, But people are more complex than that. And
I've seen you do a few what couple on attachment,
That's another that I've been kind of learning. Attachment is
(28:48):
some of the root of it. Some of mine has
been anxiety, you know, or fear, but there are attachment detachment.
There's so much disassociation, Like I know, there's a lot
that we we actually suffer from or a lot of
things that are in our lives and we're just not aware.
(29:10):
You may have an insecure attachment because of whatever happens
and it's usually happened in childhood, and now you're walking
around having relationships that all kind of look the same,
and you're like, well, what is hold on? I'm the
coming thread, I'm the coming the nominator. I gotta really
look into myself and what is it about how I
(29:31):
attached to people or detached from people that can be
contributing to why these relationships don't last or why they
look the way they do. It's so good, please please,
you must follow her on her socials to get to me.
It's almost um. When you see someone like Dr Marra
(29:51):
Buk on social media, you're like, wow, therapy, you know,
getting on that so forth or talking to someone talking
to a psychologist. Some of it is can be painful,
and then some of it I found to be invigorating
when you discover something about yourself, when you be like
I've had many moments doctor where I've been like, that's
why I responded that way, and it helps me not
(30:12):
to do it. I don't do it again. It's like,
once I've had that, revelations like, oh, oh, isn't it awesome?
I love moments of enlightenment, especially when I share that
with somebody and we're and we're both like lightbulb moment together,
Like it's such a dope moment. And also I think
that what people don't realize is that when you have
those moments, it can free you. You literally get liberated
(30:36):
from old patterns. Like you said, like I'm not going
to do it again. I already know what that is,
and that's so powerful, super powerful. But I want to
ask you about what we're seeing. A lot of burnout. Yeah,
people were burnt out before the pandemic, but I don't
know if the pandemic made it worse. But they're suffering
from work burnout or from feeling unsafe in public. What
(31:01):
are you feeling that people are needing to feel safe,
People are really needing to go back into their bodies
and doing body center of practices. It's by a lot
of the work that I've been doing lately, and I
have reference to this in my book. I do it
in my courses everywhere, the tea time. There's a lot
(31:22):
of practices that I throw in there as mental health
tips that are around the area of how do you
get back into your body and create a sense of
safety in your own body and a safe place to
go home? Too, because we have to think about what happened.
We were in a collective trauma. Everybody was in it.
We were all in a heavy social suppression. We were
(31:43):
in a persistent state of fear, which is what can
actually make trauma surface. And then we decided to then
create a transition back into a world where a lot
of that trauma wasn't even reconciled and dealt with. And
so a lot of us are walking around saying we're
mentally exhausted, when in reality it's the remnants of having
(32:06):
been in a collective trauma state. Okay, And so whenever
it comes to trauma based work, what we need to
do is get back into our bodies. And that means,
like you have to I know, we talked about deep
breathing all the time, but we have to do the
deep breathing. We have to do other things that can
create a rhythm of relaxation in our bodies, like rocking.
(32:28):
We have to hum, We have to listen to like
binural beats that help us with specific frequencies so that
we can create a relaxed state in our bodies. The
sound bath meditations that I do, they are for that
as well. It's all of that. I wholeheartedly believe that
as a world, as a society, we need to get
(32:48):
back into those things. I did a sound bath, and
I promise shall I had some of the best sleep
m I fell asleep. But so is it the frequencies,
(33:08):
the sound? Is it? All of it in sound bad?
So they're these bowls, glass bowls. They're like made of
crystals of quartz and some are like made of brass.
The traditional Tibetan bowls are made of brass, and then
they've transitioned into the quarts bowls, which make a larger
(33:29):
sound and create a higher vibration, like when I'm in
my home, like the walls are like vibrating, Like it's
so powerful. And the thing about it is that those
vibrations make micro vibrations inside of our bodies. And if
you think about it, when we vibrate the body, it
almost creates an opportunity for like our stress hormones and
(33:50):
all of the things that were like overactive to just
find itself into a neutral state. So that's a part
of why it's so relaxing, because in act really create
those micro vibrations, and I actually, in the very moment
can create for you and opportunity to feel more relaxed.
So not only is it relaxed, but how have you
(34:11):
found it to be healing? The thing that I do
with my sound boxes that I integrate my therapeutic understanding
into the sound box themselves, So I help people to
extract whatever it is that they've been experiencing as far
as emotional pain, hold that at the center of their mind.
(34:31):
And when we're doing the sound bath, we're doing it
around that very emotional pain. So we're doing the work
of the mind, and then we're bringing in that body
practice of the sound bows into the work. So we're
like creating like a mind body experience because we're all
of that. We are mind body. So you know, yes,
(34:53):
we can work out and get the sweat, but there
are other things that we can do to really be
in tune and using what God gave, like courts that's
not man made right, that's like in the earth, And
there are so many healing things in the earth that
(35:13):
we're overlooking or not using or we've been spooked by. Well,
if I do this as some kind of spirit gonna
take over me and and guess what depended on who
your clinician is I'm gonna say, yes, it does depend
on the clinician and maybe the type of the source.
(35:36):
I'm using all kinds of words, Um, your technical you
know what I mean. So if you want to go
and have that type of spiritual experience, there is a place.
But if you are relaxation to have better sleep, you know. Now,
I do think there are parts of us that are
going through something spiritual in a spirit realm. You're being tormented.
(35:57):
And to me that God is nowhere in that. He's
nowhere in that. And Scripture says, you know, um, he
did not give us a spirit of fear, but of love,
peace and a sound mind. So if there's something tormenting
you that is spiritual, right, absolutely, and why not get
(36:20):
into you know, the spiritual side of you if we
were given that as as a part of just globally
who we are. When I got into like holistic practice,
a lot of the reasons why, you know, I said,
like this is where the sauces, if you may write,
is because I was seeing that a lot of people
we were doing like a lot of mind based work.
(36:41):
And I was even like inheriting like clients that had
been with clinicians for over two decades of doing work.
Imagine that, and I'm like, well, what is what has
not been working for two decades that this person is
still experiencing depression. I mean, when we were able to
really get into it, like this person was living in
uninflamed body because their body was experiencing all of the
(37:03):
emotions at once all the time. And they're literally literally
walking around on fire, right. And then they're also they
have the spiritual disconnection. It's a disconnection from self, from others,
and from God. They're walking around in a dissociative state.
And if all of that is happening, then what we
need to do is mind, body, soul. Honey, you just
(37:25):
named the three pillars of checking in, checking in with yourself,
checking in with others, checking in with God. Yeah, those
are the three pillars of checking in. I promise you
checking in with yourself, others, God, Yeah, I know, And
I think you know, um, I think another thing that
you say and checking in that I think is really essential.
And that really hit me as a clinician has been
(37:47):
you know, how you did not sit there and define
yourself by way of depression. It wasn't like all of you.
And I think that that's something that people, especially individuals
like whom I mentioned, walking around with twenty plus years
of being depressed. It literally starts becoming that person they
self identify as a depressed person. And I think when
(38:10):
they come into treatment, clinicians can't see beyond that, and
we forget to see the whole human and the fact
that we need to do a whole overhaul of what
has been happening in this person's life in order to
free them from their emotional pain. Dr Boukay, you're about
to start apart two. As far as I'm here for it,
we got. There's so much to say. I'm here for it.
(38:31):
We got. You know, I got a lot of healing
to do. Listen, I have some stuff I would want
to run buy you offline. Sorry, guys, as related to
that twenty years and depression. I've got some stuff online.
I want to ask before I bring it to the listeners,
because I always want to make sure I have died
in my eyes and cross my teas and consult with
a professional. Y'all. We were so blessed to have the
(38:54):
beautiful Dr Mary A. Bouquet. Follow her on Instagram at
Dr dot M A r I E. L b U
q u E. You mentioned your books, Where can we
find you? If they're like, hey, I want to go
on our website right now and get product books. Yeah,
(39:14):
so right now, most of what I'm doing is courses
and it's Dr Mary L. Bouquet dot com. And then
I have my book that's coming out um in a
couple of months. Yeah, and that book is is a
healing guide for intergenerational trauma to help people to dissolve
the layered pain that they've been carrying around for generation.
Wait a minute, I'm on your links. You can't we
(39:36):
preorder it? Like now? It will be for pre order
in in a few so hopefully whenever it is, I can,
I can send it over and you know, we can
make it. Listen, I'm all for clicking that link and
adding to cart, inserting credit card and shipping information. I
love to support. I love to support, So I we
(40:00):
be on the lookout. And you guys, if you go
to her I g and go to her link tree.
She does have a course, as she said, healing from
traumatic relationships, talking about what is intergenerational trauma? Because sometimes
we only got forty five minutes with our guests. Oh
my gosh, seven stages of trauma bonding. Y'all think we
(40:20):
so in love. No, y'all both got the same traumas
that y'all got in comment, get healed of it, and
then you'll be like, wait a minute, I don't like
you see it. That's it's easy, okay, part of three.
That's part three. Dr. Thank you so much for joining us,
and you will give us a sneak peek of what
(40:42):
a sound bath is for someone who's like Michelle. You're
so passionate about yoga and sound baths and therapy. What
is this all about? Dr Mario Bouquet is going to
show us. Thanks again for checking in. Yes, thank you
for having me. It's been so wonderful. Wow. Listen. Yes,
(41:15):
she is a self proclaimed disruptor bringing psychology to people
of color. We keep emphasizing people of color because we
want you to know that getting peace of mind is
for you. Breaking out of dysfunction and intergenerational trauma is
for you. Don't let anybody think, oh, that's just for
(41:36):
rich people, that's just for white people. No, it is
for you. Walking that freedom mentally, spiritually, emotionally. Come on,
come on, come on. I refuse to believe that just
because maybe you were born into some dysfunction that that
has to be your life's portion or your children's life
portion as well as we used to saying Church, the
(42:00):
devil is a live Okay. So I'm so glad that
Dr Mario Okay just came on here with so much
grace and knowledge. And even after we got off the
official call, I just asked her some other questions regarding depression.
And there's a part two coming to this. There is
definitely a part two. So again, thank you for listening,
(42:21):
and I hope episode by episode your hope tank is
being filled, your love tank is being filled, and that
the pain that you're going through that I pray that
when you listen to this episode that it reminds you
that you can make it and that you can overcome.
I promise you all. I'm sitting in the seat of
someone who knows that it does get better, the pain,
(42:44):
the weight of it. When you do some of the work,
do as much work as you can, I'm telling you
you feel better. It does get better. All right. Thank
you again. Week after week, y'all tune in week after
week you're downloading episodes, and I can't thank you enough
for the love. I can't thank you enough to my
Black Affect Podcast family, everybody that's got a podcast on
(43:07):
this network, to Charlotte Maine, Dolly Hockey, Samantha Nicole, Angela Holly,
thank you all so much for making sure that I
get to do what I do every week. We can't
do without y'all, the listeners who subscribe and download. Alright,
I love you, love you, love you, love you. I
love you to life. Checking In with Michelle Williams is
(43:50):
a production of I Heart Radio and The Black Effect.
For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I
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