September 19, 2023 • 47 mins
Michelle, Jacinta and Jessica are beating the odds! Jacinta discusses her rise from the struggles of addiction. Jessica joins Jacinta in the discussion to share the experience of documenting her life from addiction to healing. CHECK IN to this episode for a story of breaking generational curses.
Follow Jacinta on Instagram @jacinta.impact
For more on Jessica and her other projects, visit: http://www.jessicaearnshaw.com/
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Instagram: @MichelleWilliams
Twitter: @RealMichelleW
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. Have you or someone in
(00:21):
your life been troubled or struggled with addiction. Have you
or someone in your life possibly overcome addiction, especially addiction
that runs in the family, generational trauma and addiction. Well,
(00:41):
I'm so excited about my next guest, who has gone
through it all, who has recovered and is thriving. She's
just not surviving, but she is thriving. And I'm excited
to welcome award winning filmmaker and the actual person whose
story was being told. They are joining me right now,
(01:06):
so stick around. You don't want to miss this. I
really believe you'll be inspired. Hey, everybody, my next two guests.
They are a part of an award winning documentary called Jacenta, y'all.
(01:26):
And I don't even have like that professional rundown of
our guests is because I saw it. So I get
to speak to my heart of two amazing people. Jessica
Earnshaw captured the true journey practically in real time, not
(01:47):
practically in real time of just sent to hunt. It
is so vulnerable, y'all have probably heard this before. Super
raw on Hulu and I had to reach out to them.
It was probably weird, corny stalker Sandy. I would call
(02:11):
myself just to thank them for showing this real life journey.
I don't even want to make a call it a
story because it's someone's journey. So y'all, please welcome to
checking in Jessica Earnshaw and just sent to Hunt.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Thank you, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
How y'all doing it good?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Good good. I'm doing well. I have a good job
and I'm healthy, so I'm grateful, blessed.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yes, yes, so were y'all expecting this to be received
in the way it has Jessica, the award waning, the
attention and then the press and what were your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I wasn't sure really what to expect. I mean, I
was just happy it got on to Hulu, and I
wasn't expecting it to become a Hulu original. I was
just blown away by the reception really, I mean, so
many people seem to have seen it, people really connected
to Jacinta. I just yeah, it was definitely like I
(03:29):
really wasn't sure what to expect, so it really was
beyond my dreams for it.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Just said to seeing that this is a film about
it's your story, but when people watch it, they'll realize, oh,
this is generational, the generational effects of drug abuse. Tell
me what was going on through your mind? How were
(03:56):
you approached? Were you like, wait a minute, what the world?
Speaker 3 (04:02):
So I was approached by Jessica in the prison. She
had met my mom, and my mom told that I
was in the pods and a little bit about our story.
At first, it was kind of just pitched as a
photo essay, going to be something short quick. Then upon release,
Jessica was like, hey, how about we extend this just
a little bit further, and then a little bit further.
(04:23):
It was a couple of years and going through the
filming process, I you know, thank god that I was
really unconscious to a lot of it, so I was
able to be organic and show the truth about the
struggles and not think too much about in the future
was society going to judge me? And hindsight, I have
(04:48):
been able to see people who have had some very
harsh realities and feelings towards addiction, and people in recovery
that have opened their hearts and minds to understanding that,
you know, we are humans and our problem is an addiction.
It's a symptom from something deeper, and just being able
to express that on a daily basis to people has
(05:09):
been the biggest blessing from this film.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, Jessica, I think when we were talking a few
weeks ago, I don't just sent to you or not,
but I was just saying I was like, Jessica, thank
you for caring for just Sinta in her family's hearts
and their souls. Certain documentaries you can see I'm like,
(05:35):
this is exploited, but there was something that pulls you
in and makes it was making you root forever. Everybody
even just sent to I'm even I got involved in
your daughter as far as her life. She's a grown
woman practically now right. Yeah, well, oh okay, so she
(05:58):
thinks she grown.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yeah, I know how I.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Was when I was seventeen. You couldn't tell me nothing,
you know, and tell my mom would yank me back
into reality a time or two. And this was like
you said, y'all, y'all, this this journey was filmed over
three years, and once you see the documentary, you were like,
wait a minute, it's keep going. And then you'll see
(06:22):
one year later, two years later, three years later, and
you will see the progression and you know you're rooting
for Jacinta's family, her father, her mother, you know, everybody.
You're just like because abuse not only terrors the person
(06:43):
apart that's you know, addicted, but it does so much
damage to the family and people that are you know,
how is the family just into.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Great Kaitlyn, I'm gonna start with the best is a
senior and just had beautiful and your pictures taken. I
have to really just you know, I'll give her a
shout out because she has completely changed life for me
and herself. She has struggled through school and overcomes some
like really tough times as a child and as an
(07:15):
individual that had no mom or dad to go to
dances or pta meetings. She's working and going to school.
So Kilan's doing amazing. My dad works, that's his wife. Yeah,
my mom's doing good. She's she's sober, she's been sober
for two years. She's been married and has a beautiful home.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, go ahead, I love that for mom. Okay, thank you.
Did she ask your permission before she got married?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Kind of?
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah? Yeah? Yeah, And I noticed your daughter at the
age that what age was she when it was being.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Filmed like eleven and younger.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I think we actually started at nine. Yeah, we went
she just turned ten, and we went till almost fourteen.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Okay. How she was able to articulate her me back then,
I'm just now learning she connects so much in her
How she was able to articulate things was so sound,
very mature. Yeah, you know, and I'm thankful. I'm sure
(08:29):
you are too, that she was able to at such
a young age say how she felt.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Absolutely, and you know, a lot of what Kailan was
fed to me, fed to Kailin about me was positive.
So granted, she did give me the benefit of the
dob and loved me unconditionally. John and Wanda absolutely they
were a blessing because they just they would explain to
(08:57):
Kuilan that you know, your mom's not making these races.
She is a good mom. It's gonna take time, but
she'll come out of it. So they instilled hope and
strength and good positive pictures of me.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
So h, that's so good. That's that's truly truly a blessing. Jessica,
why did you pick your sinta? How did you even.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
But how did this even come about? It?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, so I was actually in the prison they were
incarcerated in working on a totally different project on aging
in prison, which is a photo essay. And I met
Rosemary first, just sent his mom through my elderly subject
and I just spent a lot of time with Rosemary,
not even filming her, just hanging out with her because
I was there for like these long, full days. And
(09:49):
then she told me, but Jasenta, I was thinking originally
of doing like a photo essay on just these women
who were incarcerated for these long sentences. I kept here
stories of this like horrific childhoods and then drug use,
and I was like, well, it makes sense to me
that someone would get addicted to drugs when they've had
such an awful start, you know. So I was going
(10:12):
to do this feto essay. I asked Jasanta if she
would do an interview with me with her mother, and
I was it was just mainly just for captions for
my photos, and I did it for whatever reason, on video,
and I had been doing them all just recordings, just
on like without video before that, so it was just
kind of a random accident and I just was blown
(10:35):
away by them. I just knew right away there was
something just really special. Jasina was finishing her mom's sentences,
and like, I felt this kind of responsibility that Jacenta
had in her, like the way that Jasenta like looked
at her mom, And I was just so curious to understand,
like how did you send to end up following in
(10:56):
her mother's footsteps? How did she end up there in
the prison? And there I knew there was a history
of it because Rosemary's father had actually been in the
same prison, So I was like, how does this cycle
just continue? But really it was just sent to Rosemary
and specifically Jacenta. I mean, Jasenta's so smart, you know,
she was Kaylen before she was an adult, you know,
(11:19):
and I think I just like and when I met Caylen,
I was like, wow, Like I bet I'm looking into
the past on Dissenta because of how articulate and smart
Kaylen is. But yeah, I just kind of fell in
love with them.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
And that's why I.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Kept asking Jasena to extend the photo essay into a
short film into a film, because I just like, I
had no interest really prior to that on doing a
film on addiction specifically. It was more of generational trauma
and how can we pass forward and I just fell
in love with them.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, and we all are learning and you know, just
send Um wanted to know too, through counseling and therapy.
Did you know that trauma can be passed down generation
to generation.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I didn't know the extent of it. So they always say,
I want to say, they always say, and poor families
like you have to do better or don't drink because
this pri instead. So I more or less thought it
was like one of the things they say to kids
to you know, steer them from trouble. I didn't realize
that my brain and my nervous system and everything else
(12:30):
was you know, constructed differently, and the way I would
react to things and the effects that drugs and alcohol
would have on me. I had no idea that it
was going to be a lifetime thing. I thought it
was just a matter of choices and it was going
to be fine.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Honestly, So are you saying you are predisposed?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, yeah yeah. Tell our listeners when you say you're predisposed,
meaning so, does that mean I've heard it? But does
that mean if you were to just casual do something
that would start an addiction? Or was pain a part
of it?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
So I honestly, I like to say that I was
predisposed to trauma because that was the first cycle that
came down was you know, the neglect, the abuse, the
using while pregnant, So I, you know, I already had
those things, and then you adding the component of addiction
and the access to drugs. It just came together as
(13:30):
a mixture that wasn't healthy. But I don't want people
to think that if their parents are addicts or their
grandparents are addicts, that they have to think that anything
they do is either gonna you know, I'm going to
be a drug adictor there's ways of preparing yourself and
understanding what it is that caused that addiction in your family.
(13:52):
And once you're able to identify those since you now
know the things that you need to work on within yourself,
so much like domestic violence and other things that passed down,
if you make yourself aware of what the root of
that is, you're able to you know, conquer the storm
before it even comes.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Come on, come on.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Just sent it.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah, I just want to say it. By the way,
thank you for agreeing to do this interview with Checking In.
And you know, I know everybody can have lots of questions,
lots of wondering and thank you for just being open.
Have you watched have you watched the documentary? Yes, I
(14:33):
mean you know you lived it.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I think I've watched it one time since it's been
on Hulu, but I've watched it many of film festivals.
So we also.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Watched it a few times in prison. We had a
couple of pets of parties where just sent us oute
the film right before we lock picture on it, and
then we watched it what three or four more times?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
A few yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Wow, yeah, yeah, I just sent to tell me what
was going on with the first time you watched it?
Were you like when eye open when I closed?
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Very much so? And just a lot of things, you know,
I'm gonna say right off, like, the one thing I'm
most grateful for in my recovery is a that I
already had a relationship the Lord before I got sober.
So B my recovery has been able to be like
inclusive of like all of my feelings and not focus
(15:30):
solely on my addiction. I'm able to recovery from, you know,
being poor. I'm able to recover from being addicted to
sex trafficking and drugs and wrong people, codependency, so now
learning all of these things about myself and getting to
know myself. I was looking at it like, why did
I Why did I talk like that? Why did why
did I drive like that?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
There were moments where I'm like, okay, when you say
you felt like you were unconscious a lot in the film,
I can't understand due to being, you know, at the moment,
physically still using you know, and driving to the destination
just since I promise you. It literally was like I
could have been watching myself. That's how much you allowed
(16:19):
Jessica in the way it was filmed, the way it everybody,
when you watch this film, think of it will make you.
I've had family members that are in recovery and they
probably most of the time family members will isolate. They're
(16:41):
not gonna let you in. They will come out to
a family gathering when they've all got their makeup on
or their best outfit. But you let us in when
it wasn't all that. And I was like, just just
sent to know how gored she is, thank you, how
(17:03):
beautiful she is, and I pray I know that you
have broken the cycle of that trauma and addiction and Jessica,
you were used as a vessel. Whether you knew it
or not. I don't know what the end goal was,
(17:25):
But do Jessica, did you think the end goal would
be You're gonna be used to help Jacinta and her
family overcome.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I don't know. I mean I hoped, And I actually
said this to Jacenta kind of recently. We were talking
about did we think this was going to be what
it became? And I remember feeling like, oh, man, I
hope Jacenta takes whatever this is and can use it
to build it into something bigger. And Shasanad even said
(17:55):
that at one point very early on in prison, and
I have this old interview with her that I found
or Jacenta said maybe I can use this to build
it into something bigger. But I wasn't sure because of
the level of addiction what it would take for her
to get beyond that, and so I wasn't sure it
would be possible or not, because I didn't feel at
a certain point like there was much of a choice
(18:18):
in the way Jacinta was using it all like it
it really hijacked her. But I am I feel like
that's the biggest success for me in the film is
just Ja sent To using it the way she did?
And I do so much of this. I know how
hard it was for Jasenta to come out of prison
in twenty twenty and get to where she is now.
(18:41):
And although I'm sure the film was helpful in some
opportunities or people or whatever, but I know that that
was all her because she would not have if she
didn't want it like she did, and she didn't work
as hard as she did to get there, it just
wouldn't have been possible. So yeah, but I'm yeah, I'm
very It's the biggest reward in this film is seeing
(19:03):
just sent In killing today and just you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah. We are talking to Jacinta Hunt and Jessica Earnshaw
of the documentary called Just Sent To Where Jessica in
twenty twenty one Documentary Director award the Best New Documentary
Director Award from the Tribeca Festival in twenty twenty Jessica,
did you ever feel like at what point you were
(19:33):
being too invasive?
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah? Well, I don't know, I mean I was there
were moments I was like, oh God, like this is
a hard moment to be in. But I tried the
way I dealt with it. Is I just this is
gonna sound crazy. I just filmed literally everything, Yes, And
I didn't ever make the choice to pick that camera
(19:56):
up and turn it on. I just filmed everything, because
every time I did turn the camera off and turn
it on, that's when I felt invasive, because then I
was making this choice to film this thing that was uncomfortable.
But if I filmed everything, I kind of I was like,
I'm bearing witness to this and it Ja Senta had
me around so much that it was kind of like
(20:18):
I'd seen everything when moments had happened that were more private.
But I also kind of felt that, and I said
this to Jacenta also during the filming, is that although
I was filming all this stuff, I knew I was
going to be responsible in the edit with what I
included in the film, and I always retained full control.
(20:41):
We never I never got sold this film before we
were done. We always we were trying to find grants
for it. I partnered with Impact Partners, which allowed me
to keep final cut on the film so I could
make those promises the Jacenta and and keep being able
to keep those promises. You know, So even when I
was filming the really invasive and stuff. Probably it I
(21:05):
knew it was gonna I was going to keep.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
That promise to her.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
But also Jasanta, I don't think she ever. You never
told me to turn that camera.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I was going to say that once. Did you see
the face palm of the you know, the hand palm
into the camera like turn up?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Well, actually it's in the film. The only time she
actually asked me to turn it off was right when
we were on our way for her to use that
first time where she said you better put the camera down.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Mm hmmmmmmm. But that was the only time, the only time.
But it wasn't like often to where it's like, well,
why did you even agree to film if it's always
going to be you know, turn the camera just sent
to you nodded your head yes for you. How did
(21:53):
it feel invasive on from your perspective? Well, one time,
by the way, wait a minute, it's film now. You gotta
won and awards, so you can tell how you really
feel yourself.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Well, one time she just asking to put a GPS
on my car and I absolutely said no. It was
all let me journalists.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Well, partly it was because Jasenta would be like, meet
me at Applebee's at two and I'm like okay. So
I get there too, and four rolls around and I'm like,
where are used? And she's like, I want to be
there in ten minutes, And every ten minutes it was like,
ok there in ten minutes. So I was like, I
need to know where you are so I can just
come to you.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Now, Jessica, with that being said, did you turn into
Mama Bear? I got to be like, I know Jacenta
is allowing us to film her, but we got to
keep her safe. Well.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I learned how to use narcane in filming because I
was worried that Jasenta would overdose with me there. So
that was something I don't know. Do you remember me
I was talking about that. I can't. I'm not sure
if you would remember this just had it, but we
did talk. I did say I was going to call
nine one one if you were also if you ever
(23:11):
if anything happened, and I remember just sent to telling
me don't you dare one if I and I was like,
so that was the main thing. It was that, I
don't know, do you I'm not exactly sure.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
I remember the first time I used in the film
the same time I said, put the camera down. She
put it down for like five minutes to go back upstairs,
and she's like behind the camera and she's like, you
don't have to do this, you don't have to do this.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
And it helped.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Because, you know, it really did make me think about
my thoughts. But the reality of it is is I
was ready to get my life together. I just didn't
have anybody to walk me through the process. And every
time I turned to somebody, it was always there was
always an ulterior motive or I owed them something. And
Jessica was really the first person that showed up good
(24:05):
or bad and never asked me for money, never asked me,
you know, anything more than questions, you know, and that
meant a lot to me.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
A lot of the filming was there was this kind
of like interesting like process of like coming to terms
with each stage of Jacenta's journey. So at the beginning,
it was supposed to be a film about recovery Jacenta
going into the sober house.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
It was going to be a short film.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And then when she used which I actually hadn't expected
to be around for because I thought it was going
to be more of like a couple of weeks, a
couple months. Then it was just kind of like this.
It was like this really hard balance of like friend
filmmaker because sent and I had spent a lot of
time together, and then it was just kind of like
(24:57):
trying to balance those roles and like also really not
wanting her to use and like talking like I would
film everything like hold the I had a little camera,
I just hold it like this. But I would constantly
be like trying to convince her not to use, and
it just it showed me too, like how Jasent to.
(25:20):
We went through this whole period of time of like
negotiation almost where I would be like, please don't use,
call Nancy, blah blah blah. Jasenta would inevitably use. And
then I felt this kind of and I'm not sure
if you remember this, Jacenta, but I felt this kind
of like Jacenta was like it felt like she was
not wanting to disappoint me. At a certain point, like
(25:41):
she started saying that she's fine, I'm not using, I'm
not using, but I knew she was, and I felt like, Okay,
it's not my job to judge her. It's my job
to bear witness to her. You know, and wherever we
are in the journey, even though I want her to
not use that's not where she's at. So we did
have a conversation. It's at some point to be like, Okay,
(26:01):
well you're not in recovery now, let's just kind of
see where this goes from this point. And then I stopped.
I made a conscious effort to be like, Okay, I'm
here to help you find a bed if you want it,
but I'm no longer gonna this is what I kind
of told myself, like I'm not gonna like ask her
and try to convince her to do something, because I
felt like it was just kind of like I like,
(26:24):
I don't know what the word is. I'm like kind
of like making her feel like I'm letting her, she's
letting me down, and that was not the intention. And
I'm a visitor in her life, so but yeah, it
was it was hard to know really where it was
going for a long time because it was like a
kind of a huge blessing that she got arrested at
that point, because I didn't know if it was going
(26:47):
to be arrest or something worse, and I was I'm
so glad that she was arrested at the particular point
that she was at.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Then, yeah, descend to you are doing remarkable well. Now
you are a substance abuse counselor, as I see here
on our discussion it says peer recovery coach manager. Yeah,
in May in Maine. And I'm watching you as Jessica
(27:16):
is talking, and I'm wondering, if you don't mind me
asking you, how does it feel for you to have
to hear stuff from the past when you are helping
people recover from their past.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Honestly, Michelle, I am so at peace with my journey
and what has happened to me that I'm able to,
you know, let go on like God. I don't have
to hold on to those things. If I speak about
them or hear about them, I hope it has a
greater cost of the universe. But a lot of my
focus is on what I did after my addiction and
(27:53):
the work I did on myself, and it was more
than just doing the twelve Steps. I didn't choose to
do the aa NA program. I went faith based, so
I met a church family and I had a peer
recovery coach that walked me through the twelve steps on
a faith based level, and God bless my grandmother. She
(28:15):
instilled some really amazing faith in me. And I like
to focus my life on when my addiction stopped and
I am. You know, I can honestly say that I'm
I'm an amazing person and if I got to live
my life over again, I wouldn't change it. I would
(28:38):
absolutely I love my journey. And I can appreciate my
mom for being beautiful and amazing and doing the best
she could, and my father for being an honest man
and going to work. And I can appreciate the Lord
and the fact that I was given a different destiny
than you know, the rest of us.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Ye yes, yes, yes yes. And almost reading something where
how it says you locked into the promotion and the community,
Yeah you were getting from doing this film. Great things happened. Yes.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
So let me tell you a little bit about my job,
because it's amazing. So it says on here that I'm
the Peeriacovery Coach Manager. I work at Hometown Health at Newport, Maine,
and we're a federally qualified health center, which means we
turn away nobody, which is my favorite part about it.
We have a really amazing behavioral health team, a recovery team.
(29:38):
And I'm not sure if you're familiar with this wil
Farms out of Nashville, but we have been working with
this will Farm. So I have since coming on to
Hometown Health as a peer recovery coach manager, I've been
able to implement a program that is all inclusive, a
behavioral health group, meetings based m at whatever it is
(30:01):
that you choose to do. You meet with a pure
recovery coach. We do case management for you. We also
are building a residential facility to welcome five women. The facility,
the women pay no rent. You live there for two years.
It's a long term facility, will help you with your
kids school education. We offer employment the day you come in.
(30:25):
So it's super, super, super amazing. And I just got
a promotion. So as of November, this will be the
director of residential services. Just saying, so come on, mm hmm.
And my boss, thank god, she's amazing. She has had
she's been personally affected by addiction and it has you know,
(30:49):
ignited a passion in her and the two of us
together have just been an amazing team.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Wow. Can I say you found love too? You don't
have to go into us. You found love, which is great, y'all.
She is about to be promoted in November as a
did y'all hear her say? What all that they're doing?
(31:16):
And this has happened in three years since you've been
out and in recovery, would you still say you are
still in recovery? It's still a journey.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yeah, still a journey, always going to be. I just
I have coping mechanicisms. Now I don't need you know,
going to drugs isn't my first thought anymore.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Did you ever think when back in that time, say
in twenty eighteen, would you ever think I'm going to
be a director five years from now?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (31:52):
You saw this, I don't think.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
I mean, you can ask Jessica. Through all of it,
I nothing made sense to me. I know, I keep
refacing the Lord. But I have always been like, why
don't I fit in right? So people I would use
with be like you're too smart to hang out, Like
what are you doing? Like you should go do something different?
And then when I went and hung out with smart people,
(32:14):
I was in the bathroom using and didn't really fit
in either. But the entire time I always knew, like,
God's not going to do this to me like, I'm
not going to be left here. This isn't going to
be the end of my story. And if it is,
then it was meant to be for a greater reason.
You know, maybe it's saved Kaylin or somebody else. But
I have believed in myself through and through, regardless if
(32:37):
I was strung out when heroines sitting in prison, There's
never been a moment that I didn't think that, you know,
my life wasn't going to be used for a greater cause.
My grandmother says to me, or said to make God
bless her. May not be painless, may not be quick,
but may God use all messes for good. And I
can just remember repeating that, repeating that, and like having
(32:59):
no other choice but to believe in it. And I
did and until it worked out. And now I you know,
I believe in my power to help other people. I
believe in my hopes and dreams. I you know, I'm
just a very honest person and I live humble. And
when you go from nothing and on conversations from prison,
people be like, oh, you know, they're setting bets on
(33:20):
how long it's going to be before you use again.
I was a different kind of person, because those things
didn't ever make me think less of myself. The things
I've been through, I didn't shame myself. I don't feel
dirty dirty excuse me? And so yes, you know, short
answer is I absolutely always believe that what I was
(33:43):
going through, I was going to make it through, and
whatever was on the other side was going to be better.
This is much more than I ever thought it would be.
But I love my life and I'm too grateful to
be alive even in the worst conditions to sound myself
short and believe that, you know, God was going to
just let me be an attict for the rest of
(34:04):
my life. I have brains, I have a beautiful child
and smart, I have goals, and I just always knew
that was it was there for a reason.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Mm hmm, Jessica, you're smiling and nod exist you're about
to say, preach girl, Yes, honey, yes, yes, yeah. Did
you see and notice the spark and the fight that
just sent to oh is displaying for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
And I always felt like the spark in the fight
which she could come out of this, she was going
to be so successful because she was so good at
getting you know, I mean, in her life like sprouted
like getting things that she needed in order to survive.
And I was like, she's going to be If she
(34:50):
can turn this around to be a different way, it's
going to be even bigger. But yeah, the spark for sure.
And even when we first met, I mean, she was like, Okay, yeah,
I'll let you do this film, but I have to
meet Ellen DeGeneres, like as soon as this.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I want everybody. I need Oprah,
I need the view I need I need everybody to
see this and do y'all mind if I ask about reform,
y'all have shared such good positive information. Just sent to
(35:29):
you are in Maine, yes, the state of Maine, Jessica,
you are in New York. Just sin to what are
your thoughts of reform and recovery in the system.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
I feel like Department of Corrections is trying. I think
there's a lot of work to be done. There's a
lot of confusion with transgender populations and things like that.
So as someone of the gay community, I have been
focusing on and kind of like gender focus, drama and
(36:03):
form care. I for the past year and a half
have been going into the prison and training the probation
officers as well as the correctional officers on motivational interviewing
honestly like common basic respect, how to approach a woman,
why a woman reacts differently, And I hope that those
efforts are rolling out within the walls. But I also
(36:27):
have a very kind individual, special individual to me incarcerated
and I was just able to convince my boss, who
is amazing, to hire them as an executive assistant in
our organization remotely, so she will be the first female
to be working for an outside organization and in a
management level position. She gets normal salary, normal benefits, PTO time.
(36:52):
She's also because she's incarcerated, is able to cash out
on our PTO so Christmas she can now have Christmas
and send gifts home home and provide for her family
while being in there. And she was my first peer
coach when I was eighteen when I first went to
the prison, and never lost contact with me, never stopped calling.
And I've always said, you know, I'm coming back from
(37:15):
Miss Darlene, and I might not be able to get
her out, although we are working on a clemency act
for her as well. I get to, you know, expose
people to her and what she's worth and all that
she has to offer us and organization and community. It's crazy, right,
these people they commit crimes and their sentence to this time,
(37:35):
their sentence is being in those walls, is being secluded
from their family. Their sentence wasn't to be to not
have a higher education, to not have access to gainful employment,
to have their records, you know, blackmail them for the
rest of their lives. And so when reform comes, that's
kind of where I'm at. I'm trying to, you know,
drive the bus and let other people see like, hey,
(37:57):
you know, we're a huge hospital and we appreciate this
woman and she can provide for us and hopefully build
that because the gaps and employment and services resources. That's
kind of more where the efforts need to be, you know,
being a channeled.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Let me find that you're gonna run for mayor or something.
Oh hey, let me find out she's going to be
the older woman or something. Have y'all been to Capitol
HILLIAT in Washington, d C. I was gonna say, had
job been Yes? Yes, okay, awesome, awesome, awesome. Jessica, what
(38:34):
were your thoughts? Did you have anything you wanted to add?
You are You're just like a proud mama, like a
proud or a big sister.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah, I'm so happy to be on this call to
still even like listen to the conversation between you guys. Yeah,
I mean, I'm just excited that we have a pretty
strong social impact campaign with the film. So we've been
sending sending it out to universities. A lot of universities,
have you are now using it their libraries to teach
(39:01):
different wide range of courses. I mean, we had a
screening early on with Harvard Women's Law, which was really fun.
We have a training guide with the film so people
can license the film for educational purposes, and we have
a training guide that was put together by judges and
various people working together to kind of use the film
(39:23):
to highlight different issues. Yeah. So I'm just glad that
people are using it for those for those things, and
also that Jacenta is such a huge part of that.
So oftentimes people universities or organizations, like we did an
event in Bishop, California where Jenta and Kalen both came
(39:45):
and they were part of a panel and conversation with
their organization after they saw the film. So it's very
cool to have just sent to, like travel around talking
with the film and kind of spreading her message because
this campaign that we have is all designed behind which
center was most important to Jacenta.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Okay, Okay, yeah, Wow. I've heard scripture that says, you know,
God will make your name great, or your gift will
make room for you, but not thinking the process, not
knowing it's gonna take a lot of pain for my
(40:25):
name to be great. Yes, my gifts will make room
for me, but not knowing that I will find purpose
in my pain or I'll I will unearth some giftings
that will ultimately it says your gifts will make room
for you and bring you before great men. And thank
(40:46):
you for even saying just into that you wouldn't change.
There's nothing you would change about your journey. And I'm
thankful that just intil you said yes to allowing Jessica
Earn and Shaw and her team capture your story. It
is amazing. It was inspirational. If you don't have empathy,
(41:10):
you gonna have empathy when you're finished watching just sent to.
It just fills you up in so many ways, And
I'm thankful for this time to get to look you
in your eyes, just to and just love on you
today and just just thank you and Jessica, thank you
for treating her and her family with so much care
(41:36):
because we see sometimes the documentaries they don't they turn
out in their train wrecks, their disasters, you know, for
the person that the focus is supposed to be on.
And we are excited for you, just sent to as
well as you keep moving up. Thank you on this
journey and path. And if there's anything that I can
(41:58):
do for y'all in my team, we are we are
definitely here.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
I'm mentionally one more thing, Yes, darling, I do want
to mention that Jessica and I are going to be
launching my GoFundMe. If anybody can please share that I
have a beautiful vision and I have a beautiful home
available that I really would like to buy. It's like
my dream home. I'm actually in it now and just
(42:26):
thinking about it. Writing my GoFundMe, I was putting like
all of the things that I wanted in it, and
somebody happened to reach out to me. And when I
came and saw, I was like, it's really God's work
because it's it was exactly what I had, you know,
dreamed for so if you would don't mind sharing, I'll
(42:51):
give you to you as soon as we have it.
It would just mean a lot to just throw it
up on ig and you know, let the world got it.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Thank you got it. Because I certainly was going to
ask what were some of the last thing, because I
was going to say I've said my last words, just
empowering the both of you, and if you had any
upcoming projects and just sent to thank you for sharing
what you've got upcoming Jessica, any upcoming projects?
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yeah, I mean just to quickly say that, Jacinta, could
you mention what the home is for just because that's
like the coolest part of the home.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
Well, my dream is to have a home for children
who parents might be incarcerated or they might have previously
been incarcerated, and to provide housing to them with the
suite for mom so if she is incarcerated, there's a
safe place for them to do furloughs. But the idea,
the core of it is to teach children how to
(43:48):
be self sufficient regardless of what our parents go through.
So I'm hoping to instill all of the skills it
takes to break the cycle and also be able to
provide mom with some hope and having a beautiful home
and beautiful space to come to, even if she's not
able to provide it, So that would be the basis
of the home.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Come on, come on, well, does Kaitlin? Will she be
working beside you on this or what's her I hope?
Speaker 3 (44:13):
So Kailn she is interested in psychology, so right now
she's coming to Umane system, So it'll be Kailyn will
be home and going to school with me, and hopefully
if she's pursuing her sociology degree. It's absolutely in line
with what I do and would love to have her.
I also, Kailyn seventeen, she does not want to work
(44:34):
with me. She wants to be with her friends. She
has her own car, she has her own jobs.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
So amazing. Will you talked about teaching self sufficiency and
independence while at the same time keeping that wishful door open.
Thank y'all so much for checking in. Everybody, Please when
you can or I'm imploring you by the end of
this week, let me know that you have watched Just Centa.
(45:04):
It is on Hulu. Is it on any other platforms?
Speaker 3 (45:08):
I don't think in the US Disney Plus, but not here.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Okay, okay, Disney Plus and Canada. It's on Amazon Prime.
In the UK, it's it's on It's on a platform
everywhere in the world, but different.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
But different, different platforms. But you can see it wherever
you are. Just look for it. J A. C.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
I N T A and follow me on IG. Just
send an impact, just sent to Impact.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
All right, Jessica, you want to shout out your IG as.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Well, Sure it's Josh dot No. Sorry, just underscore, give
me my email.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Listen, both of you ladies. You're welcome to come back
any time and talk about your projects and what's going on.
Thank y'all for checking in.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Oh listen. Sometimes I can be hard on people that
I love, and I'll always say there's no excuse, there's
no excuse. Too many people survive and overcome all kinds
of things. But Jacinta said something so amazing. She said,
while I was still addicted to drugs, she said, I
(46:30):
still believe that I would get through it. I still
believe that I would recover. And I'm so proud of
just Santa. She's just I watched the documentary y'all, and
like I said, I got in touch with them immediately
because I just had to encourage them. And I'm so
glad that she could share a little more today and
(46:52):
give us the good news about what she's going. She
does have a project that she would love for us
to support, and I stand behind her. So all right, y'all,
I really really hope that you enjoyed this episode of
Checking In with Jacinta and Jessica. All Right, I'll see
y'all soon, go by. Checking In with Michelle Williams is
(47:26):
a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. Have you or someone in
(00:21):
your life been troubled or struggled with addiction. Have you
or someone in your life possibly overcome addiction, especially addiction
that runs in the family, generational trauma and addiction. Well,
(00:41):
I'm so excited about my next guest, who has gone
through it all, who has recovered and is thriving. She's
just not surviving, but she is thriving. And I'm excited
to welcome award winning filmmaker and the actual person whose
story was being told. They are joining me right now,
(01:06):
so stick around. You don't want to miss this. I
really believe you'll be inspired. Hey, everybody, my next two guests.
They are a part of an award winning documentary called Jacenta, y'all.
(01:26):
And I don't even have like that professional rundown of
our guests is because I saw it. So I get
to speak to my heart of two amazing people. Jessica
Earnshaw captured the true journey practically in real time, not
(01:47):
practically in real time of just sent to hunt. It
is so vulnerable, y'all have probably heard this before. Super
raw on Hulu and I had to reach out to them.
It was probably weird, corny stalker Sandy. I would call
(02:11):
myself just to thank them for showing this real life journey.
I don't even want to make a call it a
story because it's someone's journey. So y'all, please welcome to
checking in Jessica Earnshaw and just sent to Hunt.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Thank you, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
How y'all doing it good?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Good good. I'm doing well. I have a good job
and I'm healthy, so I'm grateful, blessed.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yes, yes, so were y'all expecting this to be received
in the way it has Jessica, the award waning, the
attention and then the press and what were your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I wasn't sure really what to expect. I mean, I
was just happy it got on to Hulu, and I
wasn't expecting it to become a Hulu original. I was
just blown away by the reception really, I mean, so
many people seem to have seen it, people really connected
to Jacinta. I just yeah, it was definitely like I
(03:29):
really wasn't sure what to expect, so it really was
beyond my dreams for it.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Just said to seeing that this is a film about
it's your story, but when people watch it, they'll realize, oh,
this is generational, the generational effects of drug abuse. Tell
me what was going on through your mind? How were
(03:56):
you approached? Were you like, wait a minute, what the world?
Speaker 3 (04:02):
So I was approached by Jessica in the prison. She
had met my mom, and my mom told that I
was in the pods and a little bit about our story.
At first, it was kind of just pitched as a
photo essay, going to be something short quick. Then upon release,
Jessica was like, hey, how about we extend this just
a little bit further, and then a little bit further.
(04:23):
It was a couple of years and going through the
filming process, I you know, thank god that I was
really unconscious to a lot of it, so I was
able to be organic and show the truth about the
struggles and not think too much about in the future
was society going to judge me? And hindsight, I have
(04:48):
been able to see people who have had some very
harsh realities and feelings towards addiction, and people in recovery
that have opened their hearts and minds to understanding that,
you know, we are humans and our problem is an addiction.
It's a symptom from something deeper, and just being able
to express that on a daily basis to people has
(05:09):
been the biggest blessing from this film.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, Jessica, I think when we were talking a few
weeks ago, I don't just sent to you or not,
but I was just saying I was like, Jessica, thank
you for caring for just Sinta in her family's hearts
and their souls. Certain documentaries you can see I'm like,
(05:35):
this is exploited, but there was something that pulls you
in and makes it was making you root forever. Everybody
even just sent to I'm even I got involved in
your daughter as far as her life. She's a grown
woman practically now right. Yeah, well, oh okay, so she
(05:58):
thinks she grown.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yeah, I know how I.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Was when I was seventeen. You couldn't tell me nothing,
you know, and tell my mom would yank me back
into reality a time or two. And this was like
you said, y'all, y'all, this this journey was filmed over
three years, and once you see the documentary, you were like,
wait a minute, it's keep going. And then you'll see
(06:22):
one year later, two years later, three years later, and
you will see the progression and you know you're rooting
for Jacinta's family, her father, her mother, you know, everybody.
You're just like because abuse not only terrors the person
(06:43):
apart that's you know, addicted, but it does so much
damage to the family and people that are you know,
how is the family just into.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Great Kaitlyn, I'm gonna start with the best is a
senior and just had beautiful and your pictures taken. I
have to really just you know, I'll give her a
shout out because she has completely changed life for me
and herself. She has struggled through school and overcomes some
like really tough times as a child and as an
(07:15):
individual that had no mom or dad to go to
dances or pta meetings. She's working and going to school.
So Kilan's doing amazing. My dad works, that's his wife. Yeah,
my mom's doing good. She's she's sober, she's been sober
for two years. She's been married and has a beautiful home.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, go ahead, I love that for mom. Okay, thank you.
Did she ask your permission before she got married?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Kind of?
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah? Yeah? Yeah, And I noticed your daughter at the
age that what age was she when it was being.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Filmed like eleven and younger.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
I think we actually started at nine. Yeah, we went
she just turned ten, and we went till almost fourteen.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Okay. How she was able to articulate her me back then,
I'm just now learning she connects so much in her
How she was able to articulate things was so sound,
very mature. Yeah, you know, and I'm thankful. I'm sure
(08:29):
you are too, that she was able to at such
a young age say how she felt.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Absolutely, and you know, a lot of what Kailan was
fed to me, fed to Kailin about me was positive.
So granted, she did give me the benefit of the
dob and loved me unconditionally. John and Wanda absolutely they
were a blessing because they just they would explain to
(08:57):
Kuilan that you know, your mom's not making these races.
She is a good mom. It's gonna take time, but
she'll come out of it. So they instilled hope and
strength and good positive pictures of me.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
So h, that's so good. That's that's truly truly a blessing. Jessica,
why did you pick your sinta? How did you even.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
But how did this even come about? It?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, so I was actually in the prison they were
incarcerated in working on a totally different project on aging
in prison, which is a photo essay. And I met
Rosemary first, just sent his mom through my elderly subject
and I just spent a lot of time with Rosemary,
not even filming her, just hanging out with her because
I was there for like these long, full days. And
(09:49):
then she told me, but Jasenta, I was thinking originally
of doing like a photo essay on just these women
who were incarcerated for these long sentences. I kept here
stories of this like horrific childhoods and then drug use,
and I was like, well, it makes sense to me
that someone would get addicted to drugs when they've had
such an awful start, you know. So I was going
(10:12):
to do this feto essay. I asked Jasanta if she
would do an interview with me with her mother, and
I was it was just mainly just for captions for
my photos, and I did it for whatever reason, on video,
and I had been doing them all just recordings, just
on like without video before that, so it was just
kind of a random accident and I just was blown
(10:35):
away by them. I just knew right away there was
something just really special. Jasina was finishing her mom's sentences,
and like, I felt this kind of responsibility that Jacenta
had in her, like the way that Jasenta like looked
at her mom, And I was just so curious to understand,
like how did you send to end up following in
(10:56):
her mother's footsteps? How did she end up there in
the prison? And there I knew there was a history
of it because Rosemary's father had actually been in the
same prison, So I was like, how does this cycle
just continue? But really it was just sent to Rosemary
and specifically Jacenta. I mean, Jasenta's so smart, you know,
she was Kaylen before she was an adult, you know,
(11:19):
and I think I just like and when I met Caylen,
I was like, wow, Like I bet I'm looking into
the past on Dissenta because of how articulate and smart
Kaylen is. But yeah, I just kind of fell in
love with them.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
And that's why I.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Kept asking Jasena to extend the photo essay into a
short film into a film, because I just like, I
had no interest really prior to that on doing a
film on addiction specifically. It was more of generational trauma
and how can we pass forward and I just fell
in love with them.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, and we all are learning and you know, just
send Um wanted to know too, through counseling and therapy.
Did you know that trauma can be passed down generation
to generation.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I didn't know the extent of it. So they always say,
I want to say, they always say, and poor families
like you have to do better or don't drink because
this pri instead. So I more or less thought it
was like one of the things they say to kids
to you know, steer them from trouble. I didn't realize
that my brain and my nervous system and everything else
(12:30):
was you know, constructed differently, and the way I would
react to things and the effects that drugs and alcohol
would have on me. I had no idea that it
was going to be a lifetime thing. I thought it
was just a matter of choices and it was going
to be fine.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Honestly, So are you saying you are predisposed?
Speaker 3 (12:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, yeah yeah. Tell our listeners when you say you're predisposed,
meaning so, does that mean I've heard it? But does
that mean if you were to just casual do something
that would start an addiction? Or was pain a part
of it?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
So I honestly, I like to say that I was
predisposed to trauma because that was the first cycle that
came down was you know, the neglect, the abuse, the
using while pregnant, So I, you know, I already had
those things, and then you adding the component of addiction
and the access to drugs. It just came together as
(13:30):
a mixture that wasn't healthy. But I don't want people
to think that if their parents are addicts or their
grandparents are addicts, that they have to think that anything
they do is either gonna you know, I'm going to
be a drug adictor there's ways of preparing yourself and
understanding what it is that caused that addiction in your family.
(13:52):
And once you're able to identify those since you now
know the things that you need to work on within yourself,
so much like domestic violence and other things that passed down,
if you make yourself aware of what the root of
that is, you're able to you know, conquer the storm
before it even comes.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Come on, come on.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Just sent it.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah, I just want to say it. By the way,
thank you for agreeing to do this interview with Checking In.
And you know, I know everybody can have lots of questions,
lots of wondering and thank you for just being open.
Have you watched have you watched the documentary? Yes, I
(14:33):
mean you know you lived it.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I think I've watched it one time since it's been
on Hulu, but I've watched it many of film festivals.
So we also.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Watched it a few times in prison. We had a
couple of pets of parties where just sent us oute
the film right before we lock picture on it, and
then we watched it what three or four more times?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
A few yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Wow, yeah, yeah, I just sent to tell me what
was going on with the first time you watched it?
Were you like when eye open when I closed?
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Very much so? And just a lot of things, you know,
I'm gonna say right off, like, the one thing I'm
most grateful for in my recovery is a that I
already had a relationship the Lord before I got sober.
So B my recovery has been able to be like
inclusive of like all of my feelings and not focus
(15:30):
solely on my addiction. I'm able to recovery from, you know,
being poor. I'm able to recover from being addicted to
sex trafficking and drugs and wrong people, codependency, so now
learning all of these things about myself and getting to
know myself. I was looking at it like, why did
I Why did I talk like that? Why did why
did I drive like that?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
There were moments where I'm like, okay, when you say
you felt like you were unconscious a lot in the film,
I can't understand due to being, you know, at the moment,
physically still using you know, and driving to the destination
just since I promise you. It literally was like I
could have been watching myself. That's how much you allowed
(16:19):
Jessica in the way it was filmed, the way it everybody,
when you watch this film, think of it will make you.
I've had family members that are in recovery and they
probably most of the time family members will isolate. They're
(16:41):
not gonna let you in. They will come out to
a family gathering when they've all got their makeup on
or their best outfit. But you let us in when
it wasn't all that. And I was like, just just
sent to know how gored she is, thank you, how
(17:03):
beautiful she is, and I pray I know that you
have broken the cycle of that trauma and addiction and Jessica,
you were used as a vessel. Whether you knew it
or not. I don't know what the end goal was,
(17:25):
But do Jessica, did you think the end goal would
be You're gonna be used to help Jacinta and her
family overcome.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
I don't know. I mean I hoped, And I actually
said this to Jacenta kind of recently. We were talking
about did we think this was going to be what
it became? And I remember feeling like, oh, man, I
hope Jacenta takes whatever this is and can use it
to build it into something bigger. And Shasanad even said
(17:55):
that at one point very early on in prison, and
I have this old interview with her that I found
or Jacenta said maybe I can use this to build
it into something bigger. But I wasn't sure because of
the level of addiction what it would take for her
to get beyond that, and so I wasn't sure it
would be possible or not, because I didn't feel at
a certain point like there was much of a choice
(18:18):
in the way Jacinta was using it all like it
it really hijacked her. But I am I feel like
that's the biggest success for me in the film is
just Ja sent To using it the way she did?
And I do so much of this. I know how
hard it was for Jasenta to come out of prison
in twenty twenty and get to where she is now.
(18:41):
And although I'm sure the film was helpful in some
opportunities or people or whatever, but I know that that
was all her because she would not have if she
didn't want it like she did, and she didn't work
as hard as she did to get there, it just
wouldn't have been possible. So yeah, but I'm yeah, I'm
very It's the biggest reward in this film is seeing
(19:03):
just sent In killing today and just you know, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah. We are talking to Jacinta Hunt and Jessica Earnshaw
of the documentary called Just Sent To Where Jessica in
twenty twenty one Documentary Director award the Best New Documentary
Director Award from the Tribeca Festival in twenty twenty Jessica,
did you ever feel like at what point you were
(19:33):
being too invasive?
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah? Well, I don't know, I mean I was there
were moments I was like, oh God, like this is
a hard moment to be in. But I tried the
way I dealt with it. Is I just this is
gonna sound crazy. I just filmed literally everything, Yes, And
I didn't ever make the choice to pick that camera
(19:56):
up and turn it on. I just filmed everything, because
every time I did turn the camera off and turn
it on, that's when I felt invasive, because then I
was making this choice to film this thing that was uncomfortable.
But if I filmed everything, I kind of I was like,
I'm bearing witness to this and it Ja Senta had
me around so much that it was kind of like
(20:18):
I'd seen everything when moments had happened that were more private.
But I also kind of felt that, and I said
this to Jacenta also during the filming, is that although
I was filming all this stuff, I knew I was
going to be responsible in the edit with what I
included in the film, and I always retained full control.
(20:41):
We never I never got sold this film before we
were done. We always we were trying to find grants
for it. I partnered with Impact Partners, which allowed me
to keep final cut on the film so I could
make those promises the Jacenta and and keep being able
to keep those promises. You know, So even when I
was filming the really invasive and stuff. Probably it I
(21:05):
knew it was gonna I was going to keep.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
That promise to her.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
But also Jasanta, I don't think she ever. You never
told me to turn that camera.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I was going to say that once. Did you see
the face palm of the you know, the hand palm
into the camera like turn up?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Well, actually it's in the film. The only time she
actually asked me to turn it off was right when
we were on our way for her to use that
first time where she said you better put the camera down.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Mm hmmmmmmm. But that was the only time, the only time.
But it wasn't like often to where it's like, well,
why did you even agree to film if it's always
going to be you know, turn the camera just sent
to you nodded your head yes for you. How did
(21:53):
it feel invasive on from your perspective? Well, one time,
by the way, wait a minute, it's film now. You gotta
won and awards, so you can tell how you really
feel yourself.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Well, one time she just asking to put a GPS
on my car and I absolutely said no. It was
all let me journalists.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Well, partly it was because Jasenta would be like, meet
me at Applebee's at two and I'm like okay. So
I get there too, and four rolls around and I'm like,
where are used? And she's like, I want to be
there in ten minutes, And every ten minutes it was like,
ok there in ten minutes. So I was like, I
need to know where you are so I can just
come to you.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Now, Jessica, with that being said, did you turn into
Mama Bear? I got to be like, I know Jacenta
is allowing us to film her, but we got to
keep her safe. Well.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I learned how to use narcane in filming because I
was worried that Jasenta would overdose with me there. So
that was something I don't know. Do you remember me
I was talking about that. I can't. I'm not sure
if you would remember this just had it, but we
did talk. I did say I was going to call
nine one one if you were also if you ever
(23:11):
if anything happened, and I remember just sent to telling
me don't you dare one if I and I was like,
so that was the main thing. It was that, I
don't know, do you I'm not exactly sure.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
I remember the first time I used in the film
the same time I said, put the camera down. She
put it down for like five minutes to go back upstairs,
and she's like behind the camera and she's like, you
don't have to do this, you don't have to do this.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
And it helped.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Because, you know, it really did make me think about
my thoughts. But the reality of it is is I
was ready to get my life together. I just didn't
have anybody to walk me through the process. And every
time I turned to somebody, it was always there was
always an ulterior motive or I owed them something. And
Jessica was really the first person that showed up good
(24:05):
or bad and never asked me for money, never asked me,
you know, anything more than questions, you know, and that
meant a lot to me.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
A lot of the filming was there was this kind
of like interesting like process of like coming to terms
with each stage of Jacenta's journey. So at the beginning,
it was supposed to be a film about recovery Jacenta
going into the sober house.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
It was going to be a short film.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And then when she used which I actually hadn't expected
to be around for because I thought it was going
to be more of like a couple of weeks, a
couple months. Then it was just kind of like this.
It was like this really hard balance of like friend
filmmaker because sent and I had spent a lot of
time together, and then it was just kind of like
(24:57):
trying to balance those roles and like also really not
wanting her to use and like talking like I would
film everything like hold the I had a little camera,
I just hold it like this. But I would constantly
be like trying to convince her not to use, and
it just it showed me too, like how Jasent to.
(25:20):
We went through this whole period of time of like
negotiation almost where I would be like, please don't use,
call Nancy, blah blah blah. Jasenta would inevitably use. And
then I felt this kind of and I'm not sure
if you remember this, Jacenta, but I felt this kind
of like Jacenta was like it felt like she was
not wanting to disappoint me. At a certain point, like
(25:41):
she started saying that she's fine, I'm not using, I'm
not using, but I knew she was, and I felt like, Okay,
it's not my job to judge her. It's my job
to bear witness to her. You know, and wherever we
are in the journey, even though I want her to
not use that's not where she's at. So we did
have a conversation. It's at some point to be like, Okay,
(26:01):
well you're not in recovery now, let's just kind of
see where this goes from this point. And then I stopped.
I made a conscious effort to be like, Okay, I'm
here to help you find a bed if you want it,
but I'm no longer gonna this is what I kind
of told myself, like I'm not gonna like ask her
and try to convince her to do something, because I
felt like it was just kind of like I like,
(26:24):
I don't know what the word is. I'm like kind
of like making her feel like I'm letting her, she's
letting me down, and that was not the intention. And
I'm a visitor in her life, so but yeah, it
was it was hard to know really where it was
going for a long time because it was like a
kind of a huge blessing that she got arrested at
that point, because I didn't know if it was going
(26:47):
to be arrest or something worse, and I was I'm
so glad that she was arrested at the particular point
that she was at.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Then, yeah, descend to you are doing remarkable well. Now
you are a substance abuse counselor, as I see here
on our discussion it says peer recovery coach manager. Yeah,
in May in Maine. And I'm watching you as Jessica
(27:16):
is talking, and I'm wondering, if you don't mind me
asking you, how does it feel for you to have
to hear stuff from the past when you are helping
people recover from their past.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Honestly, Michelle, I am so at peace with my journey
and what has happened to me that I'm able to,
you know, let go on like God. I don't have
to hold on to those things. If I speak about
them or hear about them, I hope it has a
greater cost of the universe. But a lot of my
focus is on what I did after my addiction and
(27:53):
the work I did on myself, and it was more
than just doing the twelve Steps. I didn't choose to
do the aa NA program. I went faith based, so
I met a church family and I had a peer
recovery coach that walked me through the twelve steps on
a faith based level, and God bless my grandmother. She
(28:15):
instilled some really amazing faith in me. And I like
to focus my life on when my addiction stopped and
I am. You know, I can honestly say that I'm
I'm an amazing person and if I got to live
my life over again, I wouldn't change it. I would
(28:38):
absolutely I love my journey. And I can appreciate my
mom for being beautiful and amazing and doing the best
she could, and my father for being an honest man
and going to work. And I can appreciate the Lord
and the fact that I was given a different destiny
than you know, the rest of us.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Ye yes, yes, yes yes. And almost reading something where
how it says you locked into the promotion and the community,
Yeah you were getting from doing this film. Great things happened. Yes.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
So let me tell you a little bit about my job,
because it's amazing. So it says on here that I'm
the Peeriacovery Coach Manager. I work at Hometown Health at Newport, Maine,
and we're a federally qualified health center, which means we
turn away nobody, which is my favorite part about it.
We have a really amazing behavioral health team, a recovery team.
(29:38):
And I'm not sure if you're familiar with this wil
Farms out of Nashville, but we have been working with
this will Farm. So I have since coming on to
Hometown Health as a peer recovery coach manager, I've been
able to implement a program that is all inclusive, a
behavioral health group, meetings based m at whatever it is
(30:01):
that you choose to do. You meet with a pure
recovery coach. We do case management for you. We also
are building a residential facility to welcome five women. The facility,
the women pay no rent. You live there for two years.
It's a long term facility, will help you with your
kids school education. We offer employment the day you come in.
(30:25):
So it's super, super, super amazing. And I just got
a promotion. So as of November, this will be the
director of residential services. Just saying, so come on, mm hmm.
And my boss, thank god, she's amazing. She has had
she's been personally affected by addiction and it has you know,
(30:49):
ignited a passion in her and the two of us
together have just been an amazing team.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Wow. Can I say you found love too? You don't
have to go into us. You found love, which is great, y'all.
She is about to be promoted in November as a
did y'all hear her say? What all that they're doing?
(31:16):
And this has happened in three years since you've been
out and in recovery, would you still say you are
still in recovery? It's still a journey.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yeah, still a journey, always going to be. I just
I have coping mechanicisms. Now I don't need you know,
going to drugs isn't my first thought anymore.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Did you ever think when back in that time, say
in twenty eighteen, would you ever think I'm going to
be a director five years from now?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (31:52):
You saw this, I don't think.
Speaker 3 (31:54):
I mean, you can ask Jessica. Through all of it,
I nothing made sense to me. I know, I keep
refacing the Lord. But I have always been like, why
don't I fit in right? So people I would use
with be like you're too smart to hang out, Like
what are you doing? Like you should go do something different?
And then when I went and hung out with smart people,
(32:14):
I was in the bathroom using and didn't really fit
in either. But the entire time I always knew, like,
God's not going to do this to me like, I'm
not going to be left here. This isn't going to
be the end of my story. And if it is,
then it was meant to be for a greater reason.
You know, maybe it's saved Kaylin or somebody else. But
I have believed in myself through and through, regardless if
(32:37):
I was strung out when heroines sitting in prison, There's
never been a moment that I didn't think that, you know,
my life wasn't going to be used for a greater cause.
My grandmother says to me, or said to make God
bless her. May not be painless, may not be quick,
but may God use all messes for good. And I
can just remember repeating that, repeating that, and like having
(32:59):
no other choice but to believe in it. And I
did and until it worked out. And now I you know,
I believe in my power to help other people. I
believe in my hopes and dreams. I you know, I'm
just a very honest person and I live humble. And
when you go from nothing and on conversations from prison,
people be like, oh, you know, they're setting bets on
(33:20):
how long it's going to be before you use again.
I was a different kind of person, because those things
didn't ever make me think less of myself. The things
I've been through, I didn't shame myself. I don't feel
dirty dirty excuse me? And so yes, you know, short
answer is I absolutely always believe that what I was
(33:43):
going through, I was going to make it through, and
whatever was on the other side was going to be better.
This is much more than I ever thought it would be.
But I love my life and I'm too grateful to
be alive even in the worst conditions to sound myself
short and believe that, you know, God was going to
just let me be an attict for the rest of
(34:04):
my life. I have brains, I have a beautiful child
and smart, I have goals, and I just always knew
that was it was there for a reason.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Mm hmm, Jessica, you're smiling and nod exist you're about
to say, preach girl, Yes, honey, yes, yes, yeah. Did
you see and notice the spark and the fight that
just sent to oh is displaying for sure.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
And I always felt like the spark in the fight
which she could come out of this, she was going
to be so successful because she was so good at
getting you know, I mean, in her life like sprouted
like getting things that she needed in order to survive.
And I was like, she's going to be If she
(34:50):
can turn this around to be a different way, it's
going to be even bigger. But yeah, the spark for sure.
And even when we first met, I mean, she was like, Okay, yeah,
I'll let you do this film, but I have to
meet Ellen DeGeneres, like as soon as this.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I want everybody. I need Oprah,
I need the view I need I need everybody to
see this and do y'all mind if I ask about reform,
y'all have shared such good positive information. Just sent to
(35:29):
you are in Maine, yes, the state of Maine, Jessica,
you are in New York. Just sin to what are
your thoughts of reform and recovery in the system.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
I feel like Department of Corrections is trying. I think
there's a lot of work to be done. There's a
lot of confusion with transgender populations and things like that.
So as someone of the gay community, I have been
focusing on and kind of like gender focus, drama and
(36:03):
form care. I for the past year and a half
have been going into the prison and training the probation
officers as well as the correctional officers on motivational interviewing
honestly like common basic respect, how to approach a woman,
why a woman reacts differently, And I hope that those
efforts are rolling out within the walls. But I also
(36:27):
have a very kind individual, special individual to me incarcerated
and I was just able to convince my boss, who
is amazing, to hire them as an executive assistant in
our organization remotely, so she will be the first female
to be working for an outside organization and in a
management level position. She gets normal salary, normal benefits, PTO time.
(36:52):
She's also because she's incarcerated, is able to cash out
on our PTO so Christmas she can now have Christmas
and send gifts home home and provide for her family
while being in there. And she was my first peer
coach when I was eighteen when I first went to
the prison, and never lost contact with me, never stopped calling.
And I've always said, you know, I'm coming back from
(37:15):
Miss Darlene, and I might not be able to get
her out, although we are working on a clemency act
for her as well. I get to, you know, expose
people to her and what she's worth and all that
she has to offer us and organization and community. It's crazy, right,
these people they commit crimes and their sentence to this time,
(37:35):
their sentence is being in those walls, is being secluded
from their family. Their sentence wasn't to be to not
have a higher education, to not have access to gainful employment,
to have their records, you know, blackmail them for the
rest of their lives. And so when reform comes, that's
kind of where I'm at. I'm trying to, you know,
drive the bus and let other people see like, hey,
(37:57):
you know, we're a huge hospital and we appreciate this
woman and she can provide for us and hopefully build
that because the gaps and employment and services resources. That's
kind of more where the efforts need to be, you know,
being a channeled.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Let me find that you're gonna run for mayor or something.
Oh hey, let me find out she's going to be
the older woman or something. Have y'all been to Capitol
HILLIAT in Washington, d C. I was gonna say, had
job been Yes? Yes, okay, awesome, awesome, awesome. Jessica, what
(38:34):
were your thoughts? Did you have anything you wanted to add?
You are You're just like a proud mama, like a
proud or a big sister.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah, I'm so happy to be on this call to
still even like listen to the conversation between you guys. Yeah,
I mean, I'm just excited that we have a pretty
strong social impact campaign with the film. So we've been
sending sending it out to universities. A lot of universities,
have you are now using it their libraries to teach
(39:01):
different wide range of courses. I mean, we had a
screening early on with Harvard Women's Law, which was really fun.
We have a training guide with the film so people
can license the film for educational purposes, and we have
a training guide that was put together by judges and
various people working together to kind of use the film
(39:23):
to highlight different issues. Yeah. So I'm just glad that
people are using it for those for those things, and
also that Jacenta is such a huge part of that.
So oftentimes people universities or organizations, like we did an
event in Bishop, California where Jenta and Kalen both came
(39:45):
and they were part of a panel and conversation with
their organization after they saw the film. So it's very
cool to have just sent to, like travel around talking
with the film and kind of spreading her message because
this campaign that we have is all designed behind which
center was most important to Jacenta.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Okay, Okay, yeah, Wow. I've heard scripture that says, you know,
God will make your name great, or your gift will
make room for you, but not thinking the process, not
knowing it's gonna take a lot of pain for my
(40:25):
name to be great. Yes, my gifts will make room
for me, but not knowing that I will find purpose
in my pain or I'll I will unearth some giftings
that will ultimately it says your gifts will make room
for you and bring you before great men. And thank
(40:46):
you for even saying just into that you wouldn't change.
There's nothing you would change about your journey. And I'm
thankful that just intil you said yes to allowing Jessica
Earn and Shaw and her team capture your story. It
is amazing. It was inspirational. If you don't have empathy,
(41:10):
you gonna have empathy when you're finished watching just sent to.
It just fills you up in so many ways, And
I'm thankful for this time to get to look you
in your eyes, just to and just love on you
today and just just thank you and Jessica, thank you
for treating her and her family with so much care
(41:36):
because we see sometimes the documentaries they don't they turn
out in their train wrecks, their disasters, you know, for
the person that the focus is supposed to be on.
And we are excited for you, just sent to as
well as you keep moving up. Thank you on this
journey and path. And if there's anything that I can
(41:58):
do for y'all in my team, we are we are
definitely here.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
I'm mentionally one more thing, Yes, darling, I do want
to mention that Jessica and I are going to be
launching my GoFundMe. If anybody can please share that I
have a beautiful vision and I have a beautiful home
available that I really would like to buy. It's like
my dream home. I'm actually in it now and just
(42:26):
thinking about it. Writing my GoFundMe, I was putting like
all of the things that I wanted in it, and
somebody happened to reach out to me. And when I
came and saw, I was like, it's really God's work
because it's it was exactly what I had, you know,
dreamed for so if you would don't mind sharing, I'll
(42:51):
give you to you as soon as we have it.
It would just mean a lot to just throw it
up on ig and you know, let the world got it.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Thank you got it. Because I certainly was going to
ask what were some of the last thing, because I
was going to say I've said my last words, just
empowering the both of you, and if you had any
upcoming projects and just sent to thank you for sharing
what you've got upcoming Jessica, any upcoming projects?
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yeah, I mean just to quickly say that, Jacinta, could
you mention what the home is for just because that's
like the coolest part of the home.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
Well, my dream is to have a home for children
who parents might be incarcerated or they might have previously
been incarcerated, and to provide housing to them with the
suite for mom so if she is incarcerated, there's a
safe place for them to do furloughs. But the idea,
the core of it is to teach children how to
(43:48):
be self sufficient regardless of what our parents go through.
So I'm hoping to instill all of the skills it
takes to break the cycle and also be able to
provide mom with some hope and having a beautiful home
and beautiful space to come to, even if she's not
able to provide it, So that would be the basis
of the home.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Come on, come on, well, does Kaitlin? Will she be
working beside you on this or what's her I hope?
Speaker 3 (44:13):
So Kailn she is interested in psychology, so right now
she's coming to Umane system, So it'll be Kailyn will
be home and going to school with me, and hopefully
if she's pursuing her sociology degree. It's absolutely in line
with what I do and would love to have her.
I also, Kailyn seventeen, she does not want to work
(44:34):
with me. She wants to be with her friends. She
has her own car, she has her own jobs.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
So amazing. Will you talked about teaching self sufficiency and
independence while at the same time keeping that wishful door open.
Thank y'all so much for checking in. Everybody, Please when
you can or I'm imploring you by the end of
this week, let me know that you have watched Just Centa.
(45:04):
It is on Hulu. Is it on any other platforms?
Speaker 3 (45:08):
I don't think in the US Disney Plus, but not here.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Okay, okay, Disney Plus and Canada. It's on Amazon Prime.
In the UK, it's it's on It's on a platform
everywhere in the world, but different.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
But different, different platforms. But you can see it wherever
you are. Just look for it. J A. C.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
I N T A and follow me on IG. Just
send an impact, just sent to Impact.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
All right, Jessica, you want to shout out your IG as.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Well, Sure it's Josh dot No. Sorry, just underscore, give
me my email.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
Listen, both of you ladies. You're welcome to come back
any time and talk about your projects and what's going on.
Thank y'all for checking in.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
Oh listen. Sometimes I can be hard on people that
I love, and I'll always say there's no excuse, there's
no excuse. Too many people survive and overcome all kinds
of things. But Jacinta said something so amazing. She said,
while I was still addicted to drugs, she said, I
(46:30):
still believe that I would get through it. I still
believe that I would recover. And I'm so proud of
just Santa. She's just I watched the documentary y'all, and
like I said, I got in touch with them immediately
because I just had to encourage them. And I'm so
glad that she could share a little more today and
(46:52):
give us the good news about what she's going. She
does have a project that she would love for us
to support, and I stand behind her. So all right, y'all,
I really really hope that you enjoyed this episode of
Checking In with Jacinta and Jessica. All Right, I'll see
y'all soon, go by. Checking In with Michelle Williams is
(47:26):
a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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