October 3, 2023 • 50 mins
Michelle and Pastor Mike are getting healed. Pastor Mike talks about the impact of being “violently vulnerable.” He also unpacks the meaning of his new book, Damaged But Not Destroyed. CHECK IN to this episode if you need to be reminded that your trauma does NOT define you!
For more on Pastor Mike Todd and access to purchase his new book, visit: https://www.iammiketodd.com/
Make sure you’re following Michelle on social media!
Instagram: @MichelleWilliams
Twitter: @RealMichelleW
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
iHeartRadio and The Black Effect.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hey, y'all, I think this conversation with Pastor mic Todd
is going to be transformative for those that will listen
with an open mind and an open heart. That you
will listen with an open mind and an open heart.
And if you're able to get to the end of
(00:38):
my conversation, I'm gonna surprise him too. But I'm going
to surprise you, and I want you to listen to
the end of the conversation for some specific instructions that
I am going to give. Pastor mic Todd is a
number one New York Times bestselling author, pastor of Transformation
Church in Tulsa, Oakal Life Homer, a phenomenal musician and producer,
(01:06):
and it's good to hear him picking up music again.
And we'll talk about that. We'll talk about how sometimes,
you know, do you feel like you have to lay
something down for a season because of something else that
you're maybe called to do a purpose to do. So
you gotta lay one thing down, do your assignment, and
(01:26):
then come back up and pick up the other thing
that you're also gifted at too. So I'm excited to
hear his take on all of that, and so y'all
stay locked in. Pastor Mike Todd is in the building.
Y'all listen. I am very excited to have on checking
(01:47):
in Pastor Mike Todd. Now, if you read the book,
he tells you his whole government name. Okay, on like
the first page of Damage but Not Destroyed, y'all. I'm
so excited because Damage but Not Destroyed is available now today.
(02:07):
T U h d A y okay. So I'm gonna
make him blush a little bit. But all I'm gonna
do is speak facts.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Oh no, okay.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
He is the number one New York Times bestselling author.
All right, two million now, two million copies sold of
his first book, Relationship Goals.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
That's crazy, right, I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
How do you feel.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
About that number one? I'm talking to Michelle Willions.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
It's good to be on the New York Times bestseller list.
I thought I was gonna make it. I didn't make it.
I want I could have been number twenty nine on
the best but you number one.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
But this is better than the New York's Time bestseller list.
Because I'm on a podcast with Michelle Williams. Do you
know how much of an intricate part you were of
my upbringing? Okay, save my name and save my name.
I just needed you to know that.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
That's one of the chapters of the book.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Okay, keep going, Okay, we don't give it away yet.
Don't give it away yet. We talked about that in
a minute. But I am so excited to be here
with you. I feel like you're my sister. We got
to meet for just a little moment in Atlanta, and
it was like, where have you been all my life?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
And it's just really one.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Of those cool, cool moments to connect with people who
actually care about doing the inner work as well as
all the things that are happening in public. So yeah,
I wrote a book about relationship goes about me and
my wife, who I've been dating since I was fourteen
years old. Is when I met her, and literally all
the ups and downs, trials, tribulations, crazy moments and our
(03:42):
story of redemption and just some things that people could
be helped in relationship because people kind of fail at
that a lot in this day and age. And I
put it out in the middle of a pandemic. I'd
never written a book before I barely passed math, math,
and English high school. So it was like, I mean,
let me just share something that I think is valuable,
(04:05):
and I mean it went crazy and people bought it
all over the world. And to think that's the first
time I've heard the two million number. That's ridiculous. Like
the fact that that book has gone on. I just
pray that it's a blessing to people for a long
long time and help people win.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
In Mayorage dating and checks that's it.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
And he smiled really big too when he got to
say that because he got somebody, he gets to go
home to his.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Wife, Glory to the living God.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Listen, listen, listen, Lord, help me too. Oh don't and
I have. It wasn't nothing. It wasn't y'all listening. It
wasn't none of your business. But yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Another fact is.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
That you are the lead pastor of Transformation Church in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I am, okay, I am, and I love it.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And there's so many ways I can go relationship, go
the faith testimony of how you guys acquired the building
and just your whole journey. It would take hours to
talk about it. But I also want to tell people y'all,
he is a phenomenal musician, producer. I say, a.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Musician, Michelle, you're doing too much, too much.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I know we're here to talk about damage but not destroyed,
from trauma to triumph. I get it, and we're gonna
get there. But y'all, he's more than pastoring.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Is that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And we'll talk about a choice that you might have
had to make. Okay, let's just let's do that.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
The choice just going. Let's go and do it.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
The choice that you possibly had to make to lay
down music to go into ministry. Now, music can be ministry,
but I'm just saying in the form of ministry that
you now you had to lay down the desire to
be the artist and producer musician.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
So part of part of my journey is I tell
people all the time, you are not what you do
only and a lot of people so many times they
wrap their entire identity off of whatever became successful. And
one of the things that I six minutes in, oh,
I thought we was. I thought we came to do
it like I thought this was that podcast, so we
(06:17):
could go all the way in.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
So, and so the truth of the matter is a
lot of people. Whatever successful, they think that's where they
should rest all of their identity and purpose. But the
one thing I learned very early on is that God
never gives people just one seed. He gives so many seeds.
On the inside. It depends on what you water. And
on the inside of me there were so many seeds
(06:41):
music and speaking and creative and all these things, and
I decided that at a young age, I was going
to water all of them. And so when the fruits
started coming from all of them, I had to make
a decision to begin to ask God what was my assignment,
not my opportunity. And a lot of people right now
are caught because they have so many opportunities and they
(07:03):
don't know what an assignment is. And that's where I'm
here to really tell this generation that you only can
get an assignment from God, but if you good, you
can have tons of opportunities. And so my my journey
took me to a place where the greatest thing that
I do is never what can I do, It's what
does God want me to do? And that's where I
(07:23):
think a lot of people are off right now. Somebody
could offer me a lot of money to do something
I'm good at but I knew it wouldn't be my assignment,
and so that thing wouldn't be blessed for me. And
so I just know that for me, that's what happened.
In the music and ministry. I would have been successful
as a music producer. I probably would have produced your
third album. I probably would have done all of those
different things. And now there's still an opportunity I would
(07:47):
I would have been I would have been there. But
at the same token, God's timing is perfect. When you
obey him, he brings everything back around. He wastes nothing.
There is nothing that he's going to put on the
inside of you that he's going to leave them. The
inside of you is just about timing. And so now
is the season where I'm getting to walk into a
whole bunch of music opportunities, people that I love, like
Michelle Williams, I'm sitting on the phone with so if
(08:10):
I had a track, I could text it to you
right now.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Did you understand what I'm saying?
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Like, following his purpose leads me into the thing that
I love, and that's a passion.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Wow. I don't have no title or anything in church,
but I'm hearing Siki first the kingdom, Oh yeah, I've got.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
In Matthew six thirty three.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Yes, And then everything else gets at it, and a
lot of people are seeking the things. They're going after
the things instead of him, and they go after the
things what I say, instead of the king. And the
King actually knows the playbook, he knows the lay of
the land, he knows what he wants for you to do.
And I've just found in my short little life of
(08:48):
a lot of impact comes from places I didn't think
it was gonna come from because I did it in
the timing that God wanted it to happen, not in
the timing that I wanted it to happen. And the
more you like lean into that and get into that lane,
you don't have to worry nothing I'm doing right now.
I have to hold up. I just got to show
up like I'm not trying to hold things together. I'm
(09:09):
not trying to finesse and do all of these things
that a lot of people have to do. And that's
what causes stress, that's what causes burnout, and that's what
causes trauma. And so a lot of people have to
really real themselves back in to figure out what's my assignment,
not just what's my opportunity?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Well, am I allowed to say your word, success fueled
by the wrong source.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Is just stress that that's it.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Is taken from damage but not destroyed.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yeah, you know that's the truth, and.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
I'm so excited about that. I want to pivot back
to something you said about assignments versus opportunities. Do you
feel that's why so many people maybe are not fulfilled
or they don't ever complete anything.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Yeah, that's exactly the reason is because if you're not
attached to something bigger than you, something that's outside of you,
something that is for somebody else that benefits you, but
it honestly helps the world. We were built with that
on the inside of us, Like we were built to
be generous. We were built to give what God's given
us away. And so many times, like people chase after
(10:15):
bags and they lose the blessing, Like the bag is
not the blessing. The blessing is. I'm doing what I
was called to do. I'm helping somebody, I'm walking in purpose.
And so if I could give any message to my
peers in this generation is like you've tried it, You've
tried to go after the bag, You've gone on vacations,
you catching flights, you burkinged up, you got.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Louie and Dewey and gooy.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
You've done everything, and at the end of the day,
sitting in that penthouse apartner, you still feel empty, Like
there's no way that that was the thing that was
supposed to fill you.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
It has to be something else. And that's why I'm
telling people right.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Now, a lot of those things that we're talking about,
they're coping mechanisms for trauma we've experienced. If we want
to be honest about it, like a lot of us
going after the opportunities, and the thing is because I
don't really want to deal what's going on inside of me.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
So let me go and be successful. Come on, let me.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Go out here and let me try to prove that
I'm worth something, that I still have value that when
I post on Instagram with old.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Boy or old girl like that validates me.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
And I'm telling you all that stuff is a quick
way to just burn out and not actually have any
real fulfillment in life. And so I'm just encouraging people like,
evaluate what you do for real and then see if
there's anything attached to it that is traumatizing to you.
And it's the reason you do it, because if we
don't deal with the root of it, we'll never be
(11:41):
able to get better.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Fruit.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Listen, I would have say this. There's something I was
gonna say to Okay, let's be transparent.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Humble, open and transparent. Let's go Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I was gonna go into that too. I used to buy,
especially cars, every time I would break awa.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Yes, everybody not but everybody, I just need to let
you know this can This may not be your testimony,
but we are talking to Michelle Williams.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Go ahead, listen, and my mama, my mama, start your amen.
My mama noticed a pattern and one day a bout
a car and she said, who'd you break up with?
And so I had to trauma wise, what was in
me that was trying to replace something that's gone on,
(12:28):
something that's left. Now, when you get on assignment and
you get in purpose the things that you thought you
even wanted, you don't even want him no more.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
You don't even want it no more.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
You don't want him her or the car. You don't.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
You don't.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
So, by the way, and I didn't read the room.
I did not say that to to flex I pray
on my heart.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
No, that's her real life. Everybody that that was her
real life. Okay that that may not be your real life,
but that's her.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Well, some of y'all.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
You you might be standing in the Michael Kors line,
the Louis Maton line to get their purse to get.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Or or Michelle they may they may be in front
of the refrigerator. Because the truth of the matter is,
many times, a lot of the things that we put
in our mouth are because of what we don't have
in our lives.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Yes, sir, a lot.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Of times it's it's we're eating, I'm gonna get some
cake because I'm gonna feel good today, Like I'm gonna
I'm gonna go have me a double dip of whatever
this ice cream is, and I feel better because they
say it's vegan, but that don't take the sugar out
of it.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
They're saying what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
And the truth of the matter is a lot of
times we need to evaluate what we put in because
what we don't feel like we have within that is
a real value metric that everybody needs to evaluate. More clothes,
more friends, more opportunities, more success. Do you actually need
more or are you trying to feel a god hole
(13:58):
is what I call it, with things that will never
be able to fit in that space in your life.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And y'all listen, do't be like me, because I was
always upside down in every trade because the Lord didn't
want me. It never worked out for me, you know,
always trying to replace stuff. So don't do that, y'all.
To finish out the loan, finish out the least of
the thing, and it's so you won't be upside down.
And really the lesson is we dig ourselves into financial holes,
(14:27):
we dig ourselves into emotional pits and stuff like the
so fine purpose get healed so that way we're not
trying to replace stuff. You said some things that were
also snippets to y'all. I gotta keep talking about the
book I personally passed through my TID. I asked for
an advanced copy of the book because they got it
(14:49):
to me, and because I despise when I write a
book or put out music, the person that's interviewing me,
they don't read or listen to it, and then they
got to ask me dumb questions. I appreciate that, so
I want the interview to go beyond what surface. What
we can google, you can't get a book. Get So
there are some things. I won't give the book away.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
But it really you can give it away. You can
give it away. I want them to be healed.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Listen. It touched me so much, damaged but not destroyed,
from trauma to triumph. You talk about so much, you're
so honest. I just transparent, and you get so vulnerable.
You get so vulnerable, y'all the endorsements preached.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
I got some good friends, I got some good endorsements preach.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Okay, so y'all get the book so you can know
what I'm talking about, and you'll be like, okay, I
gotta get a chapter one. But let me let me
tell you what I said. I said, you are very honest, transparent,
and you get very vulnerable in this book, to the
point where I read the book with one hand over
one eye A little bit. Yeah, because when one gets
there's a difference between vulnerable and being transparent. Being transparent
(16:05):
is yeah. I used to buy cars when I would
break up with people. But being vulnerable, being vulnerable. You
tell how you felt about the thing. I felt like crap,
I felt horrible, I felt used, I felt less than
and you say all so many things about yourself, yourself aware,
you don't blame shift and blame anybody else. And it
(16:28):
also rattled a thing or two in me that let
me know, Sis, oh you need to process this hit.
You took a little more.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
This is actually I'm getting goosebumps because this is the
reaction that I wanted, because I said, if somebody's gonna
get healed, you know, when you're going through something and
you're like, well, who's gonna go to the dance floor first?
Like it's a party, but everybody's standing on the side
and the music is going, and everybody looking who's.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Gonna go to the buffet line because you don't want
to look greedy?
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Or yeah, who's gonna do it first?
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (17:02):
And everybody hungry and everybody is hurting, But who's gonna
go first? And And for me, even with the position
that I hold this pastor many times pastors we put
it on people we know y'all are struggling with and
we know y'all a da da da, And I was like,
I want to take a whole different approach. I'm gonna
put myself on blast. I'm gonna I'm gonna say everything
(17:23):
that the Lord has been doing in me from the
time of two years old all the way up to
almost forty. I want to use this as a playbook.
This is the book that people write when they're seventy.
And I said, the problem is it's too far removed
from when I need to do the work. And so
I want to remember this fresh and I want I
want to hopefully inspire somebody to do the work, because
(17:45):
the life on the other side of doing the work,
of walking out this healing journey, It's like my life
went from black and white to color. And I tell
people in the book, I said, there's nothing like a
hit you don't see coming. And many of us don't
recognize that a lot of things when we're one hit
away from totally breaking because we haven't dealt with none
of our issh excuse me from my language, but I'm
(18:07):
just telling you that some of you are one disappointment away,
one frustration away, one job loss away, one breakup away
from your whole world crumbling. Not because it has to,
it's me because you've been holding so much stuff together
that you have not really dealt with. You've pushed it down,
you've buried it. You visit your family every Thanksgiving and
(18:29):
every Christmas with problems, but you never say anything. And
when you get in the car, you just cuss and
scream and get frustrated. There's so much on the inside
of us, but we're not letting that thing out in
a way that would be healthy. And I'm just telling people, like, listen,
this is the season where you allow everything that's happened
to you no longer to find you.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
But you cannot ignore it. You gotta face it.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
You gotta walk up to it and say you are
no longer the thing that will be able to put
me in my share.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I'm gonna deal with you.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
I'm gonna handle you, and with God's help and God's
grace and counseling and community and being honest, those things
can actually turn your pain into your platform. I'm here
talking about all the crap that I went through and
it's going to help people.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
And it's gonna see me and my wife on vacation.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
So I'm just saying, like, the pain can become your platform,
and God can use all of your trauma and turn
it into your trump.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Come on, listen, listen, y'all, y'all should see my posture.
I'm making that ugly face you make in church when
the pastor is just dropping gems. And that that's another
thing I want to say when you. When I was
reading reading your new book, first of all, I want
to say, I was reading it in your voice, because
you have to. You got you gotta read it in
(19:46):
his voice, in his manner asm. And then there's a
portion in the book where I was like, oh, he preaching,
and I read it. I was like, oh, I'm gonna
take this, and I'm a hoop with a little bit.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
So I'm there you ready to go ahead and do it.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
So listen because then your book you say that no
matter what happened to you, no matter who hurt you,
no matter how you feel, I want you to know
if this value is still in you, touch it ever,
say same with sin. You a sin, it's.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Genuine, send you, it's sending you, it's send you to me.
It is in.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
You, and so thank you. I thought I went to
enough therapy and I volunteer at a healing retreat. But again,
damage but not destroyed definitely says sus. You need to
unpack this, You need to process this. Now. Remember I
said we got to read the book in your voice.
(20:34):
Will there be an audiobook?
Speaker 4 (20:35):
There is already an audio book. It is done, it
is finished. I gave you my whole thing. When I
write a book or when I do something. I was
never a big book reader when I was younger. I
like to watch things. I like to see them. I
like to visualize it. And as I got older and
got into the professional pastoring and had to open businesses
(20:56):
and do anything, reading is fundamental.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
You got to be able to read. So I started
reading a lot more.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
But one of the things that I realized is that
you can read in a way that it seems live like,
it seems real.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
You can put the picture in people's mind.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
And so for anybody who's not a big reader, I'm
telling you, when you read this book, like Michelle said,
you'll see it. You'll hear me, You'll see it. It's vivid.
I pull on cultural things to be able to bring
your mind to where I'm at, and I think it's
all important so that we can actually get the message.
And I really do believe the message of my life
(21:32):
is no matter how much you've been damaged, they're still
value in you. I literally had somebody Michelle, give me
a gift that was a regift. It was an expensive gift,
but the box was jacked up and the wrapping paper
was messed up. And the truth of the matter is
is that no matter that the wrapping paper was ripped
(21:53):
and the box was tattered, the value of that gift
was in the content that was inside of it.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
And so many people.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
In this life, they've had their relationships ripped up, they've
had their character scarred and marred.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
But the truth of the matter is who God's really
created you to be.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
That essence of who you are is still good and
is still valuable, And the price of the thing did
not change because the box or the rapping was jacked up.
You take those things out that God has placed on
the inside of you, and you got to realize that
the value is still in you. And that's my encouragement
to people who've lost, who've gone through divorce, who've had
(22:34):
bad relationships, who have not been able to see the
success that they wanted to see. Yeah, you got some scratches,
and you've got some ribs, and you've got some tatters,
but I promise you who you really are, the most
valuable part of you is still waiting for the world
to see it. And if you would allow yourself to
heal from some of the things that have happened, I promise.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
You you're gonna be able to help so many people.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Listen, everything that you need is on the other side
of your healing. We talked about loss. I wanted to
ask you definitely how what you're saying can also apply
to grief.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
But you kind.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Of touched it a little bit.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
I'm touching it because I feel the audience that is
listening to this, and I know that many people have
lost things. I mean, we're coming we're three years removed
from COVID, where that literally shifted the life of so
many people, whether it was you lost an actual loved one,
you lost business, you lost money, and that was a
time for some people that they gained a lot, but
(23:36):
they lost priority and they lost focus. So you got
a bunch of money, but your children got lost in
the mix of all of that stuff. A loss comes
at a lot of different ways. The thing that you
have to understand is the fact that you're still existing
does not mean that you're actually thriving. And a lot
of people I'm finding are existing, they're going through the oceans.
(24:00):
They're doing what's necessary, but they're not actually living the
life that I believe God intended for them to live.
And that's why I think trauma makes you numb like
that's what it does. It makes you not feel the
things that you actually feel. And just think about a
car accident. A lot of times when if you ever
get in a car accident, and I pray nobody does,
(24:22):
but if you've ever been in one, you can sometimes
jump out of the car on adrenaline. You don't feel
what's going on. Oh no, no, no, I'm fine. I'm fine,
I'm fine. Everything is moving, but it's not until you
sit still. It's not until you get into a relaxed position.
It's not until the heightened moment passes that you actually
(24:42):
start to feel what happened. And may I submit to
us that many of us are so busy that we
never let ourselves get in to the point where we
can feel it. We stay so inebriated with being outside
and going from event to event and being in relationship
to relationship. You're in your third relationship in two years,
(25:02):
and you never hear from the one before it, and
so you're moving trash to another area that would have
and could have been good, but you're taking the toxic
into the next And God is saying to many people
that are listening right now, could we just get rid
of some of the weight, some of the damage. I'm
not saying that it all got to change today, but
let's go on a journey of dealing with this thing.
(25:23):
And because of loss, many times people think that loss
is the end. Loss is never the end. Loss gives
you the opportunity to find a new beginning, Yes, sir,
And a lot of times the greatest things in my
life that I lost were literally the stages for the
greatest revelations, changes and renewals in my life. But if
(25:45):
you get stuck in the loss, that's when you lose.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
But I'm encouraging somebody that's listening to this right now,
don't get stuck in the loss.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Don't get stuck in who left. This is the season.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Where God's saying I got more for you, and there's
value still in what's ahead of you. And that's why
your damage can no longer define you. But this damage
can be the thing to push you to destiny. And
I don't know, Michelle, somebody's pulling on me right now.
But you are about to give up, You are about
to stop, you are about to throw in the towel.
And this podcast came on to let you know that
(26:18):
there is more in you. That you are not at
the end of your rope. You're actually at the beginning
of your new life. This is a new season, this
is a new day, and you may be damaged, but
you are not destroyed.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Destroyed I feel it.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Pastor Mike Todd, one of the best communicators, motivators, encouraging
men of God that this planet currently has right now,
the courage to be honest, open and transparent. Everybody can't
be that, and we need more of that in church.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
We got to have it in church. If we don't
got it nowhere else, we got to have it in church.
And that's why a lot of people are jacked up.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
But are we really ready? Because when someone is honest,
open and transparent in church.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
It's wrong.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
It's like, well, what do you want? Do you want
him to fake it?
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (27:11):
So the truth of the matter is when somebody is honest, transparent,
and I want to even go a little a little
further and say like violently vulnerable, Like I feel like
I'm violently vulnerable, like I try to say it to
the point where it moves something in you, like I
want you to understand that this is what really happened.
(27:33):
And when you are like that, what it does and
why people fight against it is because it actually triggers
something on the inside of them. It becomes a mirror
and they're like, hold on, if they talking about that,
that means I need to talk about that. Uh, let's
talk about them instead of talk about me. And so
(27:53):
that's where comments go. That's where people did you hear
about such and such? All it is is deflection. All
they're trying to do is make that came too close
to an issue I might really have. That tame too
close to what me and my family may have been
dealing with. And so a lot of times the natural
response the Bible says it like this, if you're going
(28:13):
to point out the spec in your brother's eye, why
don't you start by taking the log out of your
own eye. And it's very hard because I don't want
to deal with this log, but I do want to
talk about the dust that's over there, and that if
it keeps it off of you.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Listen, First of all, thank you for the encouragement that
you gave every listener. Heck, me and the producers that
are sitting on here, thank you for what you just
imparted into us. I want to ask you this question
and I want to hold you. Of course, we've got
to ask you relationship questions, but.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Mom, I'm here for you. Well, I'm here whatever you need.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
It's something that you were saying about how we don't
like to deal with our own stuff, but yet we will.
We'll talk about what everybody else is going through and
to make us feel better. I wanted to ask you
about anger and judgment. Yeah, when you are angry, why
does it seem so easy to go into judgment of
(29:15):
others their situation and that judgment turns right back around
and it hits your house.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
The truth of the matter is anger is a secondary
emotion and it's an easy one. And when I say
a secondary emotion, it's like, usually anger is the thing
that I feel after I feel something real, like I
feel neglected, and so I get angry or I feel
I feel devalued, so I get angry. And a lot
(29:44):
of people have tapped into anger because an anger. Studies
show that anger is an easy emotion to tap into
when you don't understand, even as a child. So you
might not understand why your mom left, but it made
you angry. You might not have understood why y'all don't
have food, but it made you angry. You might not
understood why they're picking on you for wearing that name brand,
but it made you angry. And so anger becomes an
(30:07):
ally for many people from a young age. And so
when anger is your ally, what happens is you talk
to the people you know the most because you with
them the most. And so if anger is the thing
that you've been with since you were five years old
the most, even when you don't even want to go
to that emotion, it's the quickest one that comes up.
(30:29):
And so a lot of people have to actually tell
anger that they are no longer best friends. We're going
to have to search for a different emotion to be
able to express what's going on, because when you get
into anger, a lot of things happen in anger that
you don't even really mean. Come on, everybody, listen, When
you get angry, you say some stupid stuff, you do,
(30:50):
some stupid stuff you done, broke stuff that's your own,
stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Why we create more damage And this is my aunt
I'm gonna have to pay for you.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Don't punch the hole in your own wall, Like, what
in the what kind of sense do that make?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
But the truth of the matter, I'd rather punch.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
And then punch and punch my girl. Man, you over
ready to push the hole in the wall, bro.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
But the truth of the matter is that for especially
for men that that has been an ally from adolescents,
and if anger has been your ally from adolescence, it's
going to turn into something that nobody needs to be
walking in rage because when you get into rage, you
don't understand why you do what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
You're just doing things and that's where it switches.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
And so a lot of times when you get anger
as an ally from adolescence, it means that if I'm
not gonna physically act this out, I have to judge
everybody that's around me. I have to I have to
show them and tell them, and even if I don't
say it out loud, I have to have secret things
of what I feel about them because it makes me
feel better about myself. And this is why I'm saying,
(31:59):
especially to men out there, man, yo, we are destroying
families because we are not actually dealing with our issues.
It hurts us and we have been told that we
cannot express those emotions and we've only been given applause
when we do it one way. And I'm telling you
(32:19):
anger is not the way to do this. We need counseling,
we need therapy, we need community, we need to talk
to each other, we need to ask ourselves real questions
because we're out here putting families together that many times
we're not in because of our issues. And at the
same time, we're the only ones that can fully heal
what's been going on in this world. And this is
(32:39):
what I say to people. What's not transformed in you
is transferred. So everything you won't deal with. The Bible
talks about it visiting the generations, and we've seen it.
Some of us are angry, but it's because our big
mama was angry and our uncle was angry, and that
stuff just passes down.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
And so I'm just encouraging everybody.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
If you cannot find within yourself to do your work
for you, at least do it for them children that
you love. At least do it for that next generation
who's watching you. Because the pattern is being repeated if
we do not deal with our data.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
One you actually said transformed instead of what's not transform
is transferred. That was actually something that I was supposed
to get to, and you hit the nail on the head.
That's why I know this conversation is spirit led. I'm
so sociad so this is real, so so excited. What
(33:35):
are your thoughts on what's not transformed can be transferred?
I'm assuming your meaning. So what's not transformed in me?
If I go and have children, can I transfer to
them based on how I respond to when life?
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Yes, So this is I have four kids, and the
one thing I can't do with my four kids is hide.
I can't hide. They're with me all the time. They
might be as but they see when I'm angry, they
see when I'm happy. They see I'll respond in hard times,
and they see how I respond in happy times. The
truth of the matter is, if you want to know
(34:10):
who you really are, ask your kids. I mean, the
truth of the matter is you know your mama better
than your mama. Probably know your mama like because like
they think, they are responding yourself. I was good to you,
I was like mama, you was mean every time you
came home after word you was mean, and they don't
want to hear that. And then they start saying stuff
like you're not going to disrespect me, and they start
(34:32):
doing all of these things that are generational patterns that
once I said, so all that stuff is dumb. It's
all things that you do when you have a little
language of emotion, when you do not have a large
vocabulary emotionally, you say stuff to make people shut down.
And a lot of times, you think, especially in black households,
(34:52):
a lot of the language we were told was shut
down language, shut up before I give you something to
cry about, you ain't really ain't never. I had no
problem like literally minimizing whatever is real to you at
that moment, which teaches you to not deal with real
issues like and so the truth of the matter is,
in my living, I am teaching my children how to live,
(35:16):
whether I say it directly or indirectly. And so if
every time I'm faced with the hard situation between me
and their mama, I leave the house, they're learning when something.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Gets hard, relationally dip like. That's what they're learning.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
And don't matter if I tell them no, you stay
and you work it out you dah da da da.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
They're going to do what they see.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
So what is what's not transformed in me will be
transferred into them. I cannot be surprised when my daughter's
in her relationship and she show up in my house.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Daddy, I left hold on you married? Why did you leave?
I didn't want to deal with it. I didn't Da
da da.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
And the truth of the matter was she really just
that I saw you do that with Mammy, and people
don't have that real conversation. And so that's the That's
the thing that I really want people to understand. Like
you affect everybody around you when you act like it
doesn't affect you. I'm gonna say it one more time.
You affect everyone around you when you act like it
(36:16):
doesn't affect you.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yes, yes, me.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
And you actually deal with whatever affects you. It has
a ripple effect. And I talk about that in the book,
like good things can happen and ripple out to be
able to help so many people if you actually deal
with what hurts you or what what hindered you, or
what made you like like want to stop. Like when
you do that, you gonna you ain't even met yourself.
(36:42):
You don't even know you yet, Like I'm telling you,
it'll change your whole life.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
You know, when you.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Can have the heart conversations with yourself and have the
hard conversations with each other.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Yikes.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
In your book you mentioned I don't want to give
everything away, but there was something going on in your
family with one of your precious children. And you know
your wife, missus Natalie, She's telling you one thing and
you're like, no, I'm good. But it's like you had
to go.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Let's go, Let's go and say it. Let's go and
say I was.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I was just saying how you had to go get
some self awareness to be like, my bad, I was wrong.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Yeah, like I was arrogant. This is the truth, yes,
and then be When you can do.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
That, you can go to that person and have a
hard conversation.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
And that's the thing. Humility starts all of this.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
And most people will never reach purpose, not because of
their performance.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
It'll be because of their pride.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
Like like most people won't reach their God given purpose,
not because they couldn't produce whatever it is, it's because
of pride. They will not allow anybody else to speak
into their life. You see me now, and I don't
see myself. And if I had something on my face
right now and you saw it, but I'm.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Denying that it's there.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
That level of delusion keeps me from destiny. And that's
what a lot of people do in their own lives.
They don't allow anybody to speak because you younger than me,
you older than me, you ain't got as much money
as me, and all this other stuff. And one thing
that I found out is that if I'm going to
be healed, I have to be humble. Like it's like
healing takes humility, and that is where I think a
(38:30):
lot of us have to like stop the cart and
really recognize, like not this fake humble thing that people
talk about, Like I'm talking about, can somebody lovingly tell
you that you're mean and you actually evaluated? Can somebody
tell you that lovingly. I'm not talking about going off
on you or anything like, but lovingly say like you
run away every time it gets hard and you like
(38:53):
what you mean, or run away like matter of fact,
I gotta go. I got a trip to Atlanta. It's like,
see right there, I got you're running away right now.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
You're giving us a lesson.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
I want this conversation. This is good, I'm not the way.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
And the tone that you're saying, Hey, you're mean.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Yeah, you're hey, And tone is everything. Tone is everything.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
If you don't want somebody to hear you go off,
like defenses come up immediately, like the way that you
approach it, it allows them to have an excuse to
not deal with the real issue, because you become the issue. Now,
I need everybody to understand that. A lot of times
we want to help somebody, the best thing you can
(39:39):
do is not become an issue trying to help them
with their issue. And tone is a big part of that.
And that's why, again, it's hard to help somebody when
you haven't helped yourself because the only reason I can
have that tone is because I've had to have empathy
because I've gone through it, and I know somebody has
had to say to me, hey, you're not listening. No, no, no, no,
(40:02):
I hear what you're saying. I understand it, but you're
not listening. Like and it's like, what you mean, I'm
not listening, I'm not here.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
I hear you.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
No, you're hearing me, but you're not listening to what
I'm saying. And so now, oh, oh, he did something.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Go on listening.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Those are two totally different things.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
Right now, even as I'm here, there's some people outside
working on different things. I hear them, but I'm not
listening to them. I'm listening to you. Like I hear
a lot of noise, but I'm listening. My listening is
where I'm focused. And a lot of times when we're
in specially heated discussions or discussions that have to do
(40:41):
with the soul and our real emotions, we're not listening anymore.
We're just hearing. And until you start listening, you'll never
actually be led to a place of healing. And so
for me, the reason why I come at stuff a
certain way is because I know what it is to
have to deal with issues and have my wife or
my friend or people I pay. Let me just say this,
(41:03):
it doesn't matter where it comes from. If it's good
for you, it needs to be received. And that's why
I said this, whole healing journey starts with humility. This
is the only reason I was able to write damage
but not destroyed. It's because I had to humble myself.
And the Bible says it like this. It says you're
either going to humble yourself or you will be humbled.
(41:26):
It's gonna happen either one way or another. And before
I was humbled, and before I had to to take
losses that were unnecessary, I said, let me do this work,
let me start talking to somebody, let me journal a
little bit. Let me and for me, like journaling is
not a thing, and for a lot of guys it's
like I don't sit down in journal. So what I did,
(41:46):
I voiced journal. I would just start my phone on
the notes app and I would say today, I feel
like crap. I feel like nobody's for me. And I
really don't want to go to counseling. I don't want
to deal with this situation, but I know I need
to talk about it. And I really want my wife
to have sex with me tonight, but we've been in
(42:07):
an argument, so like I don't know if that's going.
Like I was just being honest with myself, honest with
where I was at. And the thing that I tell
people all the time, this journey in life is about progression,
not perfection.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
So many people are trying to leave this perfect life.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
It's impossible you live in this world with all of
its issues, in troubles.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
What you need is.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
To just make a step forward, progression over perfection every
single day. And so as you do that, that's how
you go from your trauma to triumph. That's how you
turn your damage into destiny. Not one miracle, it's one
step out of time. And that's why in this book,
I want to be your coach, Like I have gone
(42:51):
through it, and I got the scars and they have
healed now and now I can point to them and say,
you see this. This is why you do this in community,
because when you isolate and through it alone, that's where
you can get your a whooped. Like that's like like,
that's where I want to show you so that you
can be able to walk this out because I believe
there's so much value still in everybody listening.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
And I feel listen, it says it's in you. It's
in you, and y'all, y'all are so going to enjoy
the visuals and the diagram of even that of the
value being in you. And I believe pastor Mike type
because you are on the journey of healing, it's it
might be a lifelong thing.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
It don't stop, don't stop it, don't stop.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
You know it does not stop. But being an emotionally intune,
emotionally healthy pastor, I can only imagine and get excited
to visit your church one day to see all the
all the emotionally healthy people, all the people that are
starting to get emotionally healthy because of what you are
willing to talk about. I feel like you're like, ain't
(44:00):
no need of us doing all this shouting and praising?
If you what now? Now? You sound like your brother
mentor Tim Ross?
Speaker 3 (44:09):
That was the first what yeah? Were we?
Speaker 4 (44:14):
We we don't need just to do something so we
need more deodorant. We need to deal with our damage
so we can get to destiny.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
Do you hear me?
Speaker 4 (44:21):
Like?
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Well, I I am just super super super excited for
everybody to hear this podcast. I am super I want
one hundred people that listen to this podcast. I want
you to d m me so that I can send
you damaged but not destroys.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
No, Moseelle, all you're going to do is all you're
gonna do.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Now, let me let me tell you. If you're listening,
you're gonna d m me damaged but not destroyed. You're
also gonna dm me your name and the maling address.
When you do that, that lets me know you listen
to this episode, So the first one hundred people that
do that, because we are about healing forever. I know
(45:16):
what the healing power of Jesus Christ has done in
my life. I know what it's doing in the relationships,
business and personally. And I have I Like I said,
even me reading his book said you need to unpack
this a little more. You need to you need to
unpack this a little more. And uh, pastor Mike to
(45:37):
thank you. It just seems like you have fun in
everything you Oh.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
That's it. We got to. We got to.
Speaker 4 (45:45):
I believe that life is to be enjoyed, not endured,
and I believe that the freedom in Christ allows you
to do that. So that that means you can't listen
to a bunch of people because they think it's different.
But I am grateful for you. You are a blessing. You
are helping so many people right now be able to
just approach their healing journey. And it's because of your personality,
(46:06):
your words, you using your platform. It really is refreshing
to see people actually use what God's given them to
help people and not just throwing money at it.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Or just throwing.
Speaker 4 (46:22):
An endorsement, like you're actually in here doing the hard
work and helping people. And I just want to say
thank you on behalf of all the people that won't
be able to be on the podcast, which I want
to say, thank you. Your value is great to our
world and we really appreciate the work that you do.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Thank you, thank you. And let me tell y'all I'm
excited his book is out right now. His book is
out now today October third, Tuesday. It is out, so
number one hundred people that's gonna hit me. But this
book we're gonna add to themselves.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
Let's go to be a another.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
New York Times bestseller. I'm so happy that the timing
of this conversation could take place for the release date
of your book Damage, but not.
Speaker 4 (47:10):
This Hey, Michelle. Yeah, let me say one thing. Every
black male needs this book. Yes, And I want to
say I want to say this as well, because I
know my ladies they gonna already go, y'all are y'all
are next level when it comes to like emotions. Oh,
we're gonna get better. Oh y'all gonna already do it.
(47:30):
My request for all the listeners the back of this
book is the coolest part. And you can't see it
right now, but but but this is this is a picture.
If you see the book, it's a picture of three
generations of Todd men. It's my dad's face, my four
brothers face, my face, and my son's face, and and
and it looks like me. But it's all of us together,
(47:52):
which you look like you, But you're the sum of
all the people that have ever affected you. And there
are so many men who need the puzzle pieces of
their life put back together and need to deal with
their trauma. So if you're listening to this and you
are a man, or you love a man, you got
a young boy, you got a high school student, you
got a college student, your baby, daddy, whatever, you need
(48:14):
to get this book because it's gonna help them be
able to at least start seeing the value in trying
to deal with some of the things that happen to them.
And I believe when the men and women get their
health emotionally and spiritually right, it's gonna change everything in
your family, in your community, and in your world. Michelle,
I love you, Dammage been not destroyed. Y'all are the
(48:35):
best ever. Thank y'all, let's go.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Okay, listen, I mean, what do you say? What do
you say?
Speaker 4 (48:48):
So?
Speaker 2 (48:48):
I hope to the person that feels like you've done
too much wrong or that you've sabotaged every good thing
in your life, that you are encouraged to know that
it's not too late. The folks that sit on these
platforms as pastors, or even me with the podcast, and
who authored a book, you know, who's had gospel albums
(49:11):
out just I hope that you could hear our hearts
as far as the healing journeys and knowing that nobody
escapes trauma. I'm sorry, nobody is immune to Now there
are some people in my life who say, Michelle, I've honestly,
I've had a great childhood. My parents were awesome. They
(49:33):
taught us how to be loving, They taught us how
to be emotionally healthy, and they instilled that in us.
So I do not want to minimize that. There are
some people who actually have that testimony. Yes, that's a testimony,
that is a testimony. But there are some folks who
have endured some abuse, some trauma, some neglect, some abandonments,
(49:55):
some betrayal, lost. You are trying to find your way.
So just want you to know that we hear you,
we see you, and we feel you. That's why I
passed for Mike Todd. Had to take a moment to
speak in to the person's listening who might feel like
you're too far gone, that too much has happened to you.
(50:18):
Or maybe you're one who's made up team mistake after
mistake after mistake, and I'm telling you you can go
from trauma to triumph. All right, There's nothing you can
do that separates you from God's love. Okay, all right,
(50:39):
I love y'all.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
Checking In with Michelle Williams is a production of iHeart
Radio and The Black Effect. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
iHeartRadio and The Black Effect.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hey, y'all, I think this conversation with Pastor mic Todd
is going to be transformative for those that will listen
with an open mind and an open heart. That you
will listen with an open mind and an open heart.
And if you're able to get to the end of
(00:38):
my conversation, I'm gonna surprise him too. But I'm going
to surprise you, and I want you to listen to
the end of the conversation for some specific instructions that
I am going to give. Pastor mic Todd is a
number one New York Times bestselling author, pastor of Transformation
Church in Tulsa, Oakal Life Homer, a phenomenal musician and producer,
(01:06):
and it's good to hear him picking up music again.
And we'll talk about that. We'll talk about how sometimes,
you know, do you feel like you have to lay
something down for a season because of something else that
you're maybe called to do a purpose to do. So
you gotta lay one thing down, do your assignment, and
(01:26):
then come back up and pick up the other thing
that you're also gifted at too. So I'm excited to
hear his take on all of that, and so y'all
stay locked in. Pastor Mike Todd is in the building.
Y'all listen. I am very excited to have on checking
(01:47):
in Pastor Mike Todd. Now, if you read the book,
he tells you his whole government name. Okay, on like
the first page of Damage but Not Destroyed, y'all. I'm
so excited because Damage but Not Destroyed is available now today.
(02:07):
T U h d A y okay. So I'm gonna
make him blush a little bit. But all I'm gonna
do is speak facts.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Oh no, okay.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
He is the number one New York Times bestselling author.
All right, two million now, two million copies sold of
his first book, Relationship Goals.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
That's crazy, right, I'm so excited.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
How do you feel.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
About that number one? I'm talking to Michelle Willions.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
It's good to be on the New York Times bestseller list.
I thought I was gonna make it. I didn't make it.
I want I could have been number twenty nine on
the best but you number one.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
But this is better than the New York's Time bestseller list.
Because I'm on a podcast with Michelle Williams. Do you
know how much of an intricate part you were of
my upbringing? Okay, save my name and save my name.
I just needed you to know that.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
That's one of the chapters of the book.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Okay, keep going, Okay, we don't give it away yet.
Don't give it away yet. We talked about that in
a minute. But I am so excited to be here
with you. I feel like you're my sister. We got
to meet for just a little moment in Atlanta, and
it was like, where have you been all my life?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
And it's just really one.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Of those cool, cool moments to connect with people who
actually care about doing the inner work as well as
all the things that are happening in public. So yeah,
I wrote a book about relationship goes about me and
my wife, who I've been dating since I was fourteen
years old. Is when I met her, and literally all
the ups and downs, trials, tribulations, crazy moments and our
(03:42):
story of redemption and just some things that people could
be helped in relationship because people kind of fail at
that a lot in this day and age. And I
put it out in the middle of a pandemic. I'd
never written a book before I barely passed math, math,
and English high school. So it was like, I mean,
let me just share something that I think is valuable,
(04:05):
and I mean it went crazy and people bought it
all over the world. And to think that's the first
time I've heard the two million number. That's ridiculous. Like
the fact that that book has gone on. I just
pray that it's a blessing to people for a long
long time and help people win.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
In Mayorage dating and checks that's it.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
And he smiled really big too when he got to
say that because he got somebody, he gets to go
home to his.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Wife, Glory to the living God.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Listen, listen, listen, Lord, help me too. Oh don't and
I have. It wasn't nothing. It wasn't y'all listening. It
wasn't none of your business. But yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Another fact is.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
That you are the lead pastor of Transformation Church in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I am, okay, I am, and I love it.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And there's so many ways I can go relationship, go
the faith testimony of how you guys acquired the building
and just your whole journey. It would take hours to
talk about it. But I also want to tell people y'all,
he is a phenomenal musician, producer. I say, a.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Musician, Michelle, you're doing too much, too much.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
I know we're here to talk about damage but not destroyed,
from trauma to triumph. I get it, and we're gonna
get there. But y'all, he's more than pastoring.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Is that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And we'll talk about a choice that you might have
had to make. Okay, let's just let's do that.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
The choice just going. Let's go and do it.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
The choice that you possibly had to make to lay
down music to go into ministry. Now, music can be ministry,
but I'm just saying in the form of ministry that
you now you had to lay down the desire to
be the artist and producer musician.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
So part of part of my journey is I tell
people all the time, you are not what you do
only and a lot of people so many times they
wrap their entire identity off of whatever became successful. And
one of the things that I six minutes in, oh,
I thought we was. I thought we came to do
it like I thought this was that podcast, so we
(06:17):
could go all the way in.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
So, and so the truth of the matter is a
lot of people. Whatever successful, they think that's where they
should rest all of their identity and purpose. But the
one thing I learned very early on is that God
never gives people just one seed. He gives so many seeds.
On the inside. It depends on what you water. And
on the inside of me there were so many seeds
(06:41):
music and speaking and creative and all these things, and
I decided that at a young age, I was going
to water all of them. And so when the fruits
started coming from all of them, I had to make
a decision to begin to ask God what was my assignment,
not my opportunity. And a lot of people right now
are caught because they have so many opportunities and they
(07:03):
don't know what an assignment is. And that's where I'm
here to really tell this generation that you only can
get an assignment from God, but if you good, you
can have tons of opportunities. And so my my journey
took me to a place where the greatest thing that
I do is never what can I do, It's what
does God want me to do? And that's where I
(07:23):
think a lot of people are off right now. Somebody
could offer me a lot of money to do something
I'm good at but I knew it wouldn't be my assignment,
and so that thing wouldn't be blessed for me. And
so I just know that for me, that's what happened.
In the music and ministry. I would have been successful
as a music producer. I probably would have produced your
third album. I probably would have done all of those
different things. And now there's still an opportunity I would
(07:47):
I would have been I would have been there. But
at the same token, God's timing is perfect. When you
obey him, he brings everything back around. He wastes nothing.
There is nothing that he's going to put on the
inside of you that he's going to leave them. The
inside of you is just about timing. And so now
is the season where I'm getting to walk into a
whole bunch of music opportunities, people that I love, like
Michelle Williams, I'm sitting on the phone with so if
(08:10):
I had a track, I could text it to you
right now.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Did you understand what I'm saying?
Speaker 4 (08:13):
Like, following his purpose leads me into the thing that
I love, and that's a passion.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Wow. I don't have no title or anything in church,
but I'm hearing Siki first the kingdom, Oh yeah, I've got.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
In Matthew six thirty three.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Yes, And then everything else gets at it, and a
lot of people are seeking the things. They're going after
the things instead of him, and they go after the
things what I say, instead of the king. And the
King actually knows the playbook, he knows the lay of
the land, he knows what he wants for you to do.
And I've just found in my short little life of
(08:48):
a lot of impact comes from places I didn't think
it was gonna come from because I did it in
the timing that God wanted it to happen, not in
the timing that I wanted it to happen. And the
more you like lean into that and get into that lane,
you don't have to worry nothing I'm doing right now.
I have to hold up. I just got to show
up like I'm not trying to hold things together. I'm
(09:09):
not trying to finesse and do all of these things
that a lot of people have to do. And that's
what causes stress, that's what causes burnout, and that's what
causes trauma. And so a lot of people have to
really real themselves back in to figure out what's my assignment,
not just what's my opportunity?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Well, am I allowed to say your word, success fueled
by the wrong source.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Is just stress that that's it.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Is taken from damage but not destroyed.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Yeah, you know that's the truth, and.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
I'm so excited about that. I want to pivot back
to something you said about assignments versus opportunities. Do you
feel that's why so many people maybe are not fulfilled
or they don't ever complete anything.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Yeah, that's exactly the reason is because if you're not
attached to something bigger than you, something that's outside of you,
something that is for somebody else that benefits you, but
it honestly helps the world. We were built with that
on the inside of us, Like we were built to
be generous. We were built to give what God's given
us away. And so many times, like people chase after
(10:15):
bags and they lose the blessing, Like the bag is
not the blessing. The blessing is. I'm doing what I
was called to do. I'm helping somebody, I'm walking in purpose.
And so if I could give any message to my
peers in this generation is like you've tried it, You've
tried to go after the bag, You've gone on vacations,
you catching flights, you burkinged up, you got.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Louie and Dewey and gooy.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
You've done everything, and at the end of the day,
sitting in that penthouse apartner, you still feel empty, Like
there's no way that that was the thing that was
supposed to fill you.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
It has to be something else. And that's why I'm
telling people right.
Speaker 4 (10:52):
Now, a lot of those things that we're talking about,
they're coping mechanisms for trauma we've experienced. If we want
to be honest about it, like a lot of us
going after the opportunities, and the thing is because I
don't really want to deal what's going on inside of me.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
So let me go and be successful. Come on, let me.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Go out here and let me try to prove that
I'm worth something, that I still have value that when
I post on Instagram with old.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Boy or old girl like that validates me.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
And I'm telling you all that stuff is a quick
way to just burn out and not actually have any
real fulfillment in life. And so I'm just encouraging people like,
evaluate what you do for real and then see if
there's anything attached to it that is traumatizing to you.
And it's the reason you do it, because if we
don't deal with the root of it, we'll never be
(11:41):
able to get better.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Fruit.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Listen, I would have say this. There's something I was
gonna say to Okay, let's be transparent.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
Humble, open and transparent. Let's go Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
I was gonna go into that too. I used to buy,
especially cars, every time I would break awa.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
Yes, everybody not but everybody, I just need to let
you know this can This may not be your testimony,
but we are talking to Michelle Williams.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Go ahead, listen, and my mama, my mama, start your amen.
My mama noticed a pattern and one day a bout
a car and she said, who'd you break up with?
And so I had to trauma wise, what was in
me that was trying to replace something that's gone on,
(12:28):
something that's left. Now, when you get on assignment and
you get in purpose the things that you thought you
even wanted, you don't even want him no more.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
You don't even want it no more.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
You don't want him her or the car. You don't.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
You don't.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
So, by the way, and I didn't read the room.
I did not say that to to flex I pray
on my heart.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
No, that's her real life. Everybody that that was her
real life. Okay that that may not be your real life,
but that's her.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Well, some of y'all.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
You you might be standing in the Michael Kors line,
the Louis Maton line to get their purse to get.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Or or Michelle they may they may be in front
of the refrigerator. Because the truth of the matter is,
many times, a lot of the things that we put
in our mouth are because of what we don't have
in our lives.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Yes, sir, a lot.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Of times it's it's we're eating, I'm gonna get some
cake because I'm gonna feel good today, Like I'm gonna
I'm gonna go have me a double dip of whatever
this ice cream is, and I feel better because they
say it's vegan, but that don't take the sugar out
of it.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
They're saying what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
And the truth of the matter is a lot of
times we need to evaluate what we put in because
what we don't feel like we have within that is
a real value metric that everybody needs to evaluate. More clothes,
more friends, more opportunities, more success. Do you actually need
more or are you trying to feel a god hole
(13:58):
is what I call it, with things that will never
be able to fit in that space in your life.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
And y'all listen, do't be like me, because I was
always upside down in every trade because the Lord didn't
want me. It never worked out for me, you know,
always trying to replace stuff. So don't do that, y'all.
To finish out the loan, finish out the least of
the thing, and it's so you won't be upside down.
And really the lesson is we dig ourselves into financial holes,
(14:27):
we dig ourselves into emotional pits and stuff like the
so fine purpose get healed so that way we're not
trying to replace stuff. You said some things that were
also snippets to y'all. I gotta keep talking about the
book I personally passed through my TID. I asked for
an advanced copy of the book because they got it
(14:49):
to me, and because I despise when I write a
book or put out music, the person that's interviewing me,
they don't read or listen to it, and then they
got to ask me dumb questions. I appreciate that, so
I want the interview to go beyond what surface. What
we can google, you can't get a book. Get So
there are some things. I won't give the book away.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
But it really you can give it away. You can
give it away. I want them to be healed.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Listen. It touched me so much, damaged but not destroyed,
from trauma to triumph. You talk about so much, you're
so honest. I just transparent, and you get so vulnerable.
You get so vulnerable, y'all the endorsements preached.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
I got some good friends, I got some good endorsements preach.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Okay, so y'all get the book so you can know
what I'm talking about, and you'll be like, okay, I
gotta get a chapter one. But let me let me
tell you what I said. I said, you are very honest, transparent,
and you get very vulnerable in this book, to the
point where I read the book with one hand over
one eye A little bit. Yeah, because when one gets
there's a difference between vulnerable and being transparent. Being transparent
(16:05):
is yeah. I used to buy cars when I would
break up with people. But being vulnerable, being vulnerable. You
tell how you felt about the thing. I felt like crap,
I felt horrible, I felt used, I felt less than
and you say all so many things about yourself, yourself aware,
you don't blame shift and blame anybody else. And it
(16:28):
also rattled a thing or two in me that let
me know, Sis, oh you need to process this hit.
You took a little more.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
This is actually I'm getting goosebumps because this is the
reaction that I wanted, because I said, if somebody's gonna
get healed, you know, when you're going through something and
you're like, well, who's gonna go to the dance floor first?
Like it's a party, but everybody's standing on the side
and the music is going, and everybody looking who's.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Gonna go to the buffet line because you don't want
to look greedy?
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Or yeah, who's gonna do it first?
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (17:02):
And everybody hungry and everybody is hurting, But who's gonna
go first? And And for me, even with the position
that I hold this pastor many times pastors we put
it on people we know y'all are struggling with and
we know y'all a da da da, And I was like,
I want to take a whole different approach. I'm gonna
put myself on blast. I'm gonna I'm gonna say everything
(17:23):
that the Lord has been doing in me from the
time of two years old all the way up to
almost forty. I want to use this as a playbook.
This is the book that people write when they're seventy.
And I said, the problem is it's too far removed
from when I need to do the work. And so
I want to remember this fresh and I want I
want to hopefully inspire somebody to do the work, because
(17:45):
the life on the other side of doing the work,
of walking out this healing journey, It's like my life
went from black and white to color. And I tell
people in the book, I said, there's nothing like a
hit you don't see coming. And many of us don't
recognize that a lot of things when we're one hit
away from totally breaking because we haven't dealt with none
of our issh excuse me from my language, but I'm
(18:07):
just telling you that some of you are one disappointment away,
one frustration away, one job loss away, one breakup away
from your whole world crumbling. Not because it has to,
it's me because you've been holding so much stuff together
that you have not really dealt with. You've pushed it down,
you've buried it. You visit your family every Thanksgiving and
(18:29):
every Christmas with problems, but you never say anything. And
when you get in the car, you just cuss and
scream and get frustrated. There's so much on the inside
of us, but we're not letting that thing out in
a way that would be healthy. And I'm just telling people, like, listen,
this is the season where you allow everything that's happened
to you no longer to find you.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
But you cannot ignore it. You gotta face it.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
You gotta walk up to it and say you are
no longer the thing that will be able to put
me in my share.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I'm gonna deal with you.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
I'm gonna handle you, and with God's help and God's
grace and counseling and community and being honest, those things
can actually turn your pain into your platform. I'm here
talking about all the crap that I went through and
it's going to help people.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
And it's gonna see me and my wife on vacation.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
So I'm just saying, like, the pain can become your platform,
and God can use all of your trauma and turn
it into your trump.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Come on, listen, listen, y'all, y'all should see my posture.
I'm making that ugly face you make in church when
the pastor is just dropping gems. And that that's another
thing I want to say when you. When I was
reading reading your new book, first of all, I want
to say, I was reading it in your voice, because
you have to. You got you gotta read it in
(19:46):
his voice, in his manner asm. And then there's a
portion in the book where I was like, oh, he preaching,
and I read it. I was like, oh, I'm gonna
take this, and I'm a hoop with a little bit.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
So I'm there you ready to go ahead and do it.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
So listen because then your book you say that no
matter what happened to you, no matter who hurt you,
no matter how you feel, I want you to know
if this value is still in you, touch it ever,
say same with sin. You a sin, it's.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Genuine, send you, it's sending you, it's send you to me.
It is in.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
You, and so thank you. I thought I went to
enough therapy and I volunteer at a healing retreat. But again,
damage but not destroyed definitely says sus. You need to
unpack this, You need to process this. Now. Remember I
said we got to read the book in your voice.
(20:34):
Will there be an audiobook?
Speaker 4 (20:35):
There is already an audio book. It is done, it
is finished. I gave you my whole thing. When I
write a book or when I do something. I was
never a big book reader when I was younger. I
like to watch things. I like to see them. I
like to visualize it. And as I got older and
got into the professional pastoring and had to open businesses
(20:56):
and do anything, reading is fundamental.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
You got to be able to read. So I started
reading a lot more.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
But one of the things that I realized is that
you can read in a way that it seems live like,
it seems real.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
You can put the picture in people's mind.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
And so for anybody who's not a big reader, I'm
telling you, when you read this book, like Michelle said,
you'll see it. You'll hear me, You'll see it. It's vivid.
I pull on cultural things to be able to bring
your mind to where I'm at, and I think it's
all important so that we can actually get the message.
And I really do believe the message of my life
(21:32):
is no matter how much you've been damaged, they're still
value in you. I literally had somebody Michelle, give me
a gift that was a regift. It was an expensive gift,
but the box was jacked up and the wrapping paper
was messed up. And the truth of the matter is
is that no matter that the wrapping paper was ripped
(21:53):
and the box was tattered, the value of that gift
was in the content that was inside of it.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
And so many people.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
In this life, they've had their relationships ripped up, they've
had their character scarred and marred.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
But the truth of the matter is who God's really
created you to be.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
That essence of who you are is still good and
is still valuable, And the price of the thing did
not change because the box or the rapping was jacked up.
You take those things out that God has placed on
the inside of you, and you got to realize that
the value is still in you. And that's my encouragement
to people who've lost, who've gone through divorce, who've had
(22:34):
bad relationships, who have not been able to see the
success that they wanted to see. Yeah, you got some scratches,
and you've got some ribs, and you've got some tatters,
but I promise you who you really are, the most
valuable part of you is still waiting for the world
to see it. And if you would allow yourself to
heal from some of the things that have happened, I promise.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
You you're gonna be able to help so many people.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Listen, everything that you need is on the other side
of your healing. We talked about loss. I wanted to
ask you definitely how what you're saying can also apply
to grief.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
But you kind.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Of touched it a little bit.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
I'm touching it because I feel the audience that is
listening to this, and I know that many people have
lost things. I mean, we're coming we're three years removed
from COVID, where that literally shifted the life of so
many people, whether it was you lost an actual loved one,
you lost business, you lost money, and that was a
time for some people that they gained a lot, but
(23:36):
they lost priority and they lost focus. So you got
a bunch of money, but your children got lost in
the mix of all of that stuff. A loss comes
at a lot of different ways. The thing that you
have to understand is the fact that you're still existing
does not mean that you're actually thriving. And a lot
of people I'm finding are existing, they're going through the oceans.
(24:00):
They're doing what's necessary, but they're not actually living the
life that I believe God intended for them to live.
And that's why I think trauma makes you numb like
that's what it does. It makes you not feel the
things that you actually feel. And just think about a
car accident. A lot of times when if you ever
get in a car accident, and I pray nobody does,
(24:22):
but if you've ever been in one, you can sometimes
jump out of the car on adrenaline. You don't feel
what's going on. Oh no, no, no, I'm fine. I'm fine,
I'm fine. Everything is moving, but it's not until you
sit still. It's not until you get into a relaxed position.
It's not until the heightened moment passes that you actually
(24:42):
start to feel what happened. And may I submit to
us that many of us are so busy that we
never let ourselves get in to the point where we
can feel it. We stay so inebriated with being outside
and going from event to event and being in relationship
to relationship. You're in your third relationship in two years,
(25:02):
and you never hear from the one before it, and
so you're moving trash to another area that would have
and could have been good, but you're taking the toxic
into the next And God is saying to many people
that are listening right now, could we just get rid
of some of the weight, some of the damage. I'm
not saying that it all got to change today, but
let's go on a journey of dealing with this thing.
(25:23):
And because of loss, many times people think that loss
is the end. Loss is never the end. Loss gives
you the opportunity to find a new beginning, Yes, sir,
And a lot of times the greatest things in my
life that I lost were literally the stages for the
greatest revelations, changes and renewals in my life. But if
(25:45):
you get stuck in the loss, that's when you lose.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
But I'm encouraging somebody that's listening to this right now,
don't get stuck in the loss.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Don't get stuck in who left. This is the season.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Where God's saying I got more for you, and there's
value still in what's ahead of you. And that's why
your damage can no longer define you. But this damage
can be the thing to push you to destiny. And
I don't know, Michelle, somebody's pulling on me right now.
But you are about to give up, You are about
to stop, you are about to throw in the towel.
And this podcast came on to let you know that
(26:18):
there is more in you. That you are not at
the end of your rope. You're actually at the beginning
of your new life. This is a new season, this
is a new day, and you may be damaged, but
you are not destroyed.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Destroyed I feel it.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Pastor Mike Todd, one of the best communicators, motivators, encouraging
men of God that this planet currently has right now,
the courage to be honest, open and transparent. Everybody can't
be that, and we need more of that in church.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
We got to have it in church. If we don't
got it nowhere else, we got to have it in church.
And that's why a lot of people are jacked up.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
But are we really ready? Because when someone is honest,
open and transparent in church.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
It's wrong.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
It's like, well, what do you want? Do you want
him to fake it?
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (27:11):
So the truth of the matter is when somebody is honest, transparent,
and I want to even go a little a little
further and say like violently vulnerable, Like I feel like
I'm violently vulnerable, like I try to say it to
the point where it moves something in you, like I
want you to understand that this is what really happened.
(27:33):
And when you are like that, what it does and
why people fight against it is because it actually triggers
something on the inside of them. It becomes a mirror
and they're like, hold on, if they talking about that,
that means I need to talk about that. Uh, let's
talk about them instead of talk about me. And so
(27:53):
that's where comments go. That's where people did you hear
about such and such? All it is is deflection. All
they're trying to do is make that came too close
to an issue I might really have. That tame too
close to what me and my family may have been
dealing with. And so a lot of times the natural
response the Bible says it like this, if you're going
(28:13):
to point out the spec in your brother's eye, why
don't you start by taking the log out of your
own eye. And it's very hard because I don't want
to deal with this log, but I do want to
talk about the dust that's over there, and that if
it keeps it off of you.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Listen, First of all, thank you for the encouragement that
you gave every listener. Heck, me and the producers that
are sitting on here, thank you for what you just
imparted into us. I want to ask you this question
and I want to hold you. Of course, we've got
to ask you relationship questions, but.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Mom, I'm here for you. Well, I'm here whatever you need.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
It's something that you were saying about how we don't
like to deal with our own stuff, but yet we will.
We'll talk about what everybody else is going through and
to make us feel better. I wanted to ask you
about anger and judgment. Yeah, when you are angry, why
does it seem so easy to go into judgment of
(29:15):
others their situation and that judgment turns right back around
and it hits your house.
Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (29:22):
The truth of the matter is anger is a secondary
emotion and it's an easy one. And when I say
a secondary emotion, it's like, usually anger is the thing
that I feel after I feel something real, like I
feel neglected, and so I get angry or I feel
I feel devalued, so I get angry. And a lot
(29:44):
of people have tapped into anger because an anger. Studies
show that anger is an easy emotion to tap into
when you don't understand, even as a child. So you
might not understand why your mom left, but it made
you angry. You might not have understood why y'all don't
have food, but it made you angry. You might not
understood why they're picking on you for wearing that name brand,
but it made you angry. And so anger becomes an
(30:07):
ally for many people from a young age. And so
when anger is your ally, what happens is you talk
to the people you know the most because you with
them the most. And so if anger is the thing
that you've been with since you were five years old
the most, even when you don't even want to go
to that emotion, it's the quickest one that comes up.
(30:29):
And so a lot of people have to actually tell
anger that they are no longer best friends. We're going
to have to search for a different emotion to be
able to express what's going on, because when you get
into anger, a lot of things happen in anger that
you don't even really mean. Come on, everybody, listen, When
you get angry, you say some stupid stuff, you do,
(30:50):
some stupid stuff you done, broke stuff that's your own,
stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Why we create more damage And this is my aunt
I'm gonna have to pay for you.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
Don't punch the hole in your own wall, Like, what
in the what kind of sense do that make?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
But the truth of the matter, I'd rather punch.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
And then punch and punch my girl. Man, you over
ready to push the hole in the wall, bro.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
But the truth of the matter is that for especially
for men that that has been an ally from adolescents,
and if anger has been your ally from adolescence, it's
going to turn into something that nobody needs to be
walking in rage because when you get into rage, you
don't understand why you do what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
You're just doing things and that's where it switches.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
And so a lot of times when you get anger
as an ally from adolescence, it means that if I'm
not gonna physically act this out, I have to judge
everybody that's around me. I have to I have to
show them and tell them, and even if I don't
say it out loud, I have to have secret things
of what I feel about them because it makes me
feel better about myself. And this is why I'm saying,
(31:59):
especially to men out there, man, yo, we are destroying
families because we are not actually dealing with our issues.
It hurts us and we have been told that we
cannot express those emotions and we've only been given applause
when we do it one way. And I'm telling you
(32:19):
anger is not the way to do this. We need counseling,
we need therapy, we need community, we need to talk
to each other, we need to ask ourselves real questions
because we're out here putting families together that many times
we're not in because of our issues. And at the
same time, we're the only ones that can fully heal
what's been going on in this world. And this is
(32:39):
what I say to people. What's not transformed in you
is transferred. So everything you won't deal with. The Bible
talks about it visiting the generations, and we've seen it.
Some of us are angry, but it's because our big
mama was angry and our uncle was angry, and that
stuff just passes down.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
And so I'm just encouraging everybody.
Speaker 4 (32:59):
If you cannot find within yourself to do your work
for you, at least do it for them children that
you love. At least do it for that next generation
who's watching you. Because the pattern is being repeated if
we do not deal with our data.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
One you actually said transformed instead of what's not transform
is transferred. That was actually something that I was supposed
to get to, and you hit the nail on the head.
That's why I know this conversation is spirit led. I'm
so sociad so this is real, so so excited. What
(33:35):
are your thoughts on what's not transformed can be transferred?
I'm assuming your meaning. So what's not transformed in me?
If I go and have children, can I transfer to
them based on how I respond to when life?
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Yes, So this is I have four kids, and the
one thing I can't do with my four kids is hide.
I can't hide. They're with me all the time. They
might be as but they see when I'm angry, they
see when I'm happy. They see I'll respond in hard times,
and they see how I respond in happy times. The
truth of the matter is, if you want to know
(34:10):
who you really are, ask your kids. I mean, the
truth of the matter is you know your mama better
than your mama. Probably know your mama like because like
they think, they are responding yourself. I was good to you,
I was like mama, you was mean every time you
came home after word you was mean, and they don't
want to hear that. And then they start saying stuff
like you're not going to disrespect me, and they start
(34:32):
doing all of these things that are generational patterns that
once I said, so all that stuff is dumb. It's
all things that you do when you have a little
language of emotion, when you do not have a large
vocabulary emotionally, you say stuff to make people shut down.
And a lot of times, you think, especially in black households,
(34:52):
a lot of the language we were told was shut
down language, shut up before I give you something to
cry about, you ain't really ain't never. I had no
problem like literally minimizing whatever is real to you at
that moment, which teaches you to not deal with real
issues like and so the truth of the matter is,
in my living, I am teaching my children how to live,
(35:16):
whether I say it directly or indirectly. And so if
every time I'm faced with the hard situation between me
and their mama, I leave the house, they're learning when something.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Gets hard, relationally dip like. That's what they're learning.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
And don't matter if I tell them no, you stay
and you work it out you dah da da da.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
They're going to do what they see.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
So what is what's not transformed in me will be
transferred into them. I cannot be surprised when my daughter's
in her relationship and she show up in my house.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Daddy, I left hold on you married? Why did you leave?
I didn't want to deal with it. I didn't Da
da da.
Speaker 4 (35:54):
And the truth of the matter was she really just
that I saw you do that with Mammy, and people
don't have that real conversation. And so that's the That's
the thing that I really want people to understand. Like
you affect everybody around you when you act like it
doesn't affect you. I'm gonna say it one more time.
You affect everyone around you when you act like it
(36:16):
doesn't affect you.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yes, yes, me.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
And you actually deal with whatever affects you. It has
a ripple effect. And I talk about that in the book,
like good things can happen and ripple out to be
able to help so many people if you actually deal
with what hurts you or what what hindered you, or
what made you like like want to stop. Like when
you do that, you gonna you ain't even met yourself.
(36:42):
You don't even know you yet, Like I'm telling you,
it'll change your whole life.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
You know, when you.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Can have the heart conversations with yourself and have the
hard conversations with each other.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Yikes.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
In your book you mentioned I don't want to give
everything away, but there was something going on in your
family with one of your precious children. And you know
your wife, missus Natalie, She's telling you one thing and
you're like, no, I'm good. But it's like you had
to go.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Let's go, Let's go and say it. Let's go and
say I was.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
I was just saying how you had to go get
some self awareness to be like, my bad, I was wrong.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Yeah, like I was arrogant. This is the truth, yes,
and then be When you can do.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
That, you can go to that person and have a
hard conversation.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
And that's the thing. Humility starts all of this.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
And most people will never reach purpose, not because of
their performance.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
It'll be because of their pride.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
Like like most people won't reach their God given purpose,
not because they couldn't produce whatever it is, it's because
of pride. They will not allow anybody else to speak
into their life. You see me now, and I don't
see myself. And if I had something on my face
right now and you saw it, but I'm.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Denying that it's there.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
That level of delusion keeps me from destiny. And that's
what a lot of people do in their own lives.
They don't allow anybody to speak because you younger than me,
you older than me, you ain't got as much money
as me, and all this other stuff. And one thing
that I found out is that if I'm going to
be healed, I have to be humble. Like it's like
healing takes humility, and that is where I think a
(38:30):
lot of us have to like stop the cart and
really recognize, like not this fake humble thing that people
talk about, Like I'm talking about, can somebody lovingly tell
you that you're mean and you actually evaluated? Can somebody
tell you that lovingly. I'm not talking about going off
on you or anything like, but lovingly say like you
run away every time it gets hard and you like
(38:53):
what you mean, or run away like matter of fact,
I gotta go. I got a trip to Atlanta. It's like,
see right there, I got you're running away right now.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
You're giving us a lesson.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
I want this conversation. This is good, I'm not the way.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
And the tone that you're saying, Hey, you're mean.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Yeah, you're hey, And tone is everything. Tone is everything.
Speaker 4 (39:17):
If you don't want somebody to hear you go off,
like defenses come up immediately, like the way that you
approach it, it allows them to have an excuse to
not deal with the real issue, because you become the issue. Now,
I need everybody to understand that. A lot of times
we want to help somebody, the best thing you can
(39:39):
do is not become an issue trying to help them
with their issue. And tone is a big part of that.
And that's why, again, it's hard to help somebody when
you haven't helped yourself because the only reason I can
have that tone is because I've had to have empathy
because I've gone through it, and I know somebody has
had to say to me, hey, you're not listening. No, no, no, no,
(40:02):
I hear what you're saying. I understand it, but you're
not listening. Like and it's like, what you mean, I'm
not listening, I'm not here.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
I hear you.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
No, you're hearing me, but you're not listening to what
I'm saying. And so now, oh, oh, he did something.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Go on listening.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Those are two totally different things.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
Right now, even as I'm here, there's some people outside
working on different things. I hear them, but I'm not
listening to them. I'm listening to you. Like I hear
a lot of noise, but I'm listening. My listening is
where I'm focused. And a lot of times when we're
in specially heated discussions or discussions that have to do
(40:41):
with the soul and our real emotions, we're not listening anymore.
We're just hearing. And until you start listening, you'll never
actually be led to a place of healing. And so
for me, the reason why I come at stuff a
certain way is because I know what it is to
have to deal with issues and have my wife or
my friend or people I pay. Let me just say this,
(41:03):
it doesn't matter where it comes from. If it's good
for you, it needs to be received. And that's why
I said this, whole healing journey starts with humility. This
is the only reason I was able to write damage
but not destroyed. It's because I had to humble myself.
And the Bible says it like this. It says you're
either going to humble yourself or you will be humbled.
(41:26):
It's gonna happen either one way or another. And before
I was humbled, and before I had to to take
losses that were unnecessary, I said, let me do this work,
let me start talking to somebody, let me journal a
little bit. Let me and for me, like journaling is
not a thing, and for a lot of guys it's
like I don't sit down in journal. So what I did,
(41:46):
I voiced journal. I would just start my phone on
the notes app and I would say today, I feel
like crap. I feel like nobody's for me. And I
really don't want to go to counseling. I don't want
to deal with this situation, but I know I need
to talk about it. And I really want my wife
to have sex with me tonight, but we've been in
(42:07):
an argument, so like I don't know if that's going.
Like I was just being honest with myself, honest with
where I was at. And the thing that I tell
people all the time, this journey in life is about progression,
not perfection.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
So many people are trying to leave this perfect life.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
It's impossible you live in this world with all of
its issues, in troubles.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
What you need is.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
To just make a step forward, progression over perfection every
single day. And so as you do that, that's how
you go from your trauma to triumph. That's how you
turn your damage into destiny. Not one miracle, it's one
step out of time. And that's why in this book,
I want to be your coach, Like I have gone
(42:51):
through it, and I got the scars and they have
healed now and now I can point to them and say,
you see this. This is why you do this in community,
because when you isolate and through it alone, that's where
you can get your a whooped. Like that's like like,
that's where I want to show you so that you
can be able to walk this out because I believe
there's so much value still in everybody listening.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
And I feel listen, it says it's in you. It's
in you, and y'all, y'all are so going to enjoy
the visuals and the diagram of even that of the
value being in you. And I believe pastor Mike type
because you are on the journey of healing, it's it
might be a lifelong thing.
Speaker 3 (43:35):
It don't stop, don't stop it, don't stop.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
You know it does not stop. But being an emotionally intune,
emotionally healthy pastor, I can only imagine and get excited
to visit your church one day to see all the
all the emotionally healthy people, all the people that are
starting to get emotionally healthy because of what you are
willing to talk about. I feel like you're like, ain't
(44:00):
no need of us doing all this shouting and praising?
If you what now? Now? You sound like your brother
mentor Tim Ross?
Speaker 3 (44:09):
That was the first what yeah? Were we?
Speaker 4 (44:14):
We we don't need just to do something so we
need more deodorant. We need to deal with our damage
so we can get to destiny.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
Do you hear me?
Speaker 4 (44:21):
Like?
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Well, I I am just super super super excited for
everybody to hear this podcast. I am super I want
one hundred people that listen to this podcast. I want
you to d m me so that I can send
you damaged but not destroys.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
No, Moseelle, all you're going to do is all you're
gonna do.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Now, let me let me tell you. If you're listening,
you're gonna d m me damaged but not destroyed. You're
also gonna dm me your name and the maling address.
When you do that, that lets me know you listen
to this episode, So the first one hundred people that
do that, because we are about healing forever. I know
(45:16):
what the healing power of Jesus Christ has done in
my life. I know what it's doing in the relationships,
business and personally. And I have I Like I said,
even me reading his book said you need to unpack
this a little more. You need to you need to
unpack this a little more. And uh, pastor Mike to
(45:37):
thank you. It just seems like you have fun in
everything you Oh.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
That's it. We got to. We got to.
Speaker 4 (45:45):
I believe that life is to be enjoyed, not endured,
and I believe that the freedom in Christ allows you
to do that. So that that means you can't listen
to a bunch of people because they think it's different.
But I am grateful for you. You are a blessing. You
are helping so many people right now be able to
just approach their healing journey. And it's because of your personality,
(46:06):
your words, you using your platform. It really is refreshing
to see people actually use what God's given them to
help people and not just throwing money at it.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Or just throwing.
Speaker 4 (46:22):
An endorsement, like you're actually in here doing the hard
work and helping people. And I just want to say
thank you on behalf of all the people that won't
be able to be on the podcast, which I want
to say, thank you. Your value is great to our
world and we really appreciate the work that you do.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Thank you, thank you. And let me tell y'all I'm
excited his book is out right now. His book is
out now today October third, Tuesday. It is out, so
number one hundred people that's gonna hit me. But this
book we're gonna add to themselves.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
Let's go to be a another.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
New York Times bestseller. I'm so happy that the timing
of this conversation could take place for the release date
of your book Damage, but not.
Speaker 4 (47:10):
This Hey, Michelle. Yeah, let me say one thing. Every
black male needs this book. Yes, And I want to
say I want to say this as well, because I
know my ladies they gonna already go, y'all are y'all
are next level when it comes to like emotions. Oh,
we're gonna get better. Oh y'all gonna already do it.
(47:30):
My request for all the listeners the back of this
book is the coolest part. And you can't see it
right now, but but but this is this is a picture.
If you see the book, it's a picture of three
generations of Todd men. It's my dad's face, my four
brothers face, my face, and my son's face, and and
and it looks like me. But it's all of us together,
(47:52):
which you look like you, But you're the sum of
all the people that have ever affected you. And there
are so many men who need the puzzle pieces of
their life put back together and need to deal with
their trauma. So if you're listening to this and you
are a man, or you love a man, you got
a young boy, you got a high school student, you
got a college student, your baby, daddy, whatever, you need
(48:14):
to get this book because it's gonna help them be
able to at least start seeing the value in trying
to deal with some of the things that happen to them.
And I believe when the men and women get their
health emotionally and spiritually right, it's gonna change everything in
your family, in your community, and in your world. Michelle,
I love you, Dammage been not destroyed. Y'all are the
(48:35):
best ever. Thank y'all, let's go.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Okay, listen, I mean, what do you say? What do
you say?
Speaker 4 (48:48):
So?
Speaker 2 (48:48):
I hope to the person that feels like you've done
too much wrong or that you've sabotaged every good thing
in your life, that you are encouraged to know that
it's not too late. The folks that sit on these
platforms as pastors, or even me with the podcast, and
who authored a book, you know, who's had gospel albums
(49:11):
out just I hope that you could hear our hearts
as far as the healing journeys and knowing that nobody
escapes trauma. I'm sorry, nobody is immune to Now there
are some people in my life who say, Michelle, I've honestly,
I've had a great childhood. My parents were awesome. They
(49:33):
taught us how to be loving, They taught us how
to be emotionally healthy, and they instilled that in us.
So I do not want to minimize that. There are
some people who actually have that testimony. Yes, that's a testimony,
that is a testimony. But there are some folks who
have endured some abuse, some trauma, some neglect, some abandonments,
(49:55):
some betrayal, lost. You are trying to find your way.
So just want you to know that we hear you,
we see you, and we feel you. That's why I
passed for Mike Todd. Had to take a moment to
speak in to the person's listening who might feel like
you're too far gone, that too much has happened to you.
(50:18):
Or maybe you're one who's made up team mistake after
mistake after mistake, and I'm telling you you can go
from trauma to triumph. All right, There's nothing you can
do that separates you from God's love. Okay, all right,
(50:39):
I love y'all.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
Checking In with Michelle Williams is a production of iHeart
Radio and The Black Effect. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen
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