Ask HTM - The Key Personal Finance Metric, Negotiating A Lower Car Loan Rate, & WTD When Your Cheese Is Moved #805 - How to Money

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,
and today we're answering your listener questions. Welcome everyone to

(00:26):
episode eight oh five of the How to Money podcast.
This means we're old podcastters, you know what we It's
funny because we rolled over the old episode podcast O
Doomeiner rolled over eight hundred and it was an interview
episode is with holla, I guess a couple of weeks ago,
and we didn't even say anything about it because we
don't normally banter much on the interview or ever on

(00:46):
our interview episodes. But hey, eight hundred episodes, baby, that's
a big deal. It's a milestone. It's one of those milestone.
But no, so let's take a minute to maybe thank
all of our listeners out there for listening to the
show for that long. I oh, there are folks out there,
and because we hear from you, you email us, you
leave the reviews and you say, oh, I used to
listen back when it was the poorn up poor days. Yeah,

(01:07):
and that means you were listening around episode like twenty
or thirty. It also means you're glutton for punishment, which
is mind blowing. But obviously we wouldn't be here, we
wouldn't be making this podcast. I don't think if we
didn't have listeners, maybe we're gluttons for punishment and we
would continue to make the episodes. I love doing this
and so much even if nobody's listening to you at all.
I don't know if I would yell into the void

(01:28):
like that, but I just this is so much fun
to create. Embrace your old Man. No, this is an
ask how to money episode, and we've got some great
topics to get to today. A listener is asking about
what we think might be the most important personal finance metric,
Little Tea's there. Another listener is asking how she can
snag the lowest car loan interest rates, and another listener

(01:50):
is wondering what she should do because her financial cheese
it was moved. That's a reference to don't touch my cheese.
People like a nineties business look. Basically, it was very
popular book back then. Yeah, but uh yeah, when you're
when your goals shift, how do you respond to that.
We'll get to that and more during today's episode.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yeah, real quick, I just want to mention in a
recent newsletter, By the way, if you're listening and you
haven't signed up for the newsletter, go do it. How
to money dot com slash newsletter comes out every Tuesday
chock full of advice. You'll get it tomorrow morning in
your inbox actually if you do it right now. So, yeah,
but we had put something about protecting yourself with password
manager sites right by using a password manager to because

(02:29):
there's a lot of people out there, Matt, who are
using the same password, have used the same exact password
on all of their logins, and with all the information
that's floating out there around.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Us password one, two three, Yeah, yeah, it can be
you don't want, No, you don't, and.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
You want to shake up your passwords for different sites
because you'll, let's say some crook does figure out what
your password is. Well, instead of being able to just
get into that one account, now they get can get
into a bunch of your accounts. Well, that happened, right,
So I think we had mentioned last Pass and Bitwarden
as being two good options, but then listener grammarised down
and he's had actually Benmore's better because last Pass had
actually had a breach themselves.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
They themselves had a data breach, which that's basically, hey,
this is your job, like your job is to protect
the data, is to protect the passwords, the pass keys,
and when it happens to stuff, when that happened, when
it happens to a credit bureau like that is supposed
to be their job. But I realize that they don't care.
But you should. You assume that the password.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
That these companies actually do care, right, But last pass
apparently had had this flub which obviously impacted its users.
So I would say bit warden is probably the place
to turn. And the cool thing is bit worden has
that free tier. It's open source and because of that,
if you've been looking for a password manager, you can
get one free of charge, which.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Is pretty cool. Nice. Have you tried to? I checked
it out.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
I haven't fully made the switch over there, but I'm
I don't know, I'm leaning towards.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
I'm still stuck in my way as I've got my
hidden documents in password protected locations, and then the documents
themselves are also password protected, and of course I get
all weird with my passwords. And you know this because
any time you're like, hey, I need the Internet password
at your house. Yeah that or even something with work
where were like hey share me the share the whatever
password with me for whatever service, and I'm like, okay,

(04:08):
but brace yourself. And also I tend to like only
send you half of it and then I scrawl the
other the other half on a post a note that
make you destroy It's It's very James Bondy around here, Jewel. Yeah,
but let's introduce our beer real quick here. This is
an Alpsy beer by High Grain Brewing that was donated

(04:31):
to the show by Mike and Christy Joel. I'm looking
forward to enjoying this dunkle and we'll share our thoughts
at the end of the episode.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Sounds good, I will dunkle on you next time we
played basketball.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
Well, let's probably can can you dunk?

Speaker 2 (04:44):
My ups are not so great, but I am very tall,
so people assume I would be able to.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
But I haven't tried, like in high school or college.
Could you dunk? Not really? No? Yeah, but now that
I'm forty, I probably can, right, Matt, you haven't focusing
on your health more. You've got a trampoline in the backyard.
All that's kind of amount to something I will say
I'll try soon. I'll try. I bet you jump more
on the trampoline. Now than you did when you're in
high school. Yeah, that's true. Boom m hmm. He is just
a number, Joel.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
All right, I'll test it out soon. But let's get
on to the listener questions. And if you have a
question for us, we'd love to take it on the
next Ask How to Money episode. Just go to how
tomoney dot com slash ask for simple instructions for how
to submit your question. It's basically recording a voice memo
on your phone and emailing it to us is pretty chill.
Now let's get to the first question for this episode,
though this is kind of a nerdier question, maybe a

(05:30):
little inside baseball about savings rates.

Speaker 3 (05:32):
Hey guys, this is John from Ohio.

Speaker 4 (05:35):
A question that I've always had in regards to calculating
my personal savings rate. Is there a standard way to
handle employer contributions to my four to oh one, K
and HSA accounts.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
Did they get ignored for the purpose of this calculation?

Speaker 4 (05:47):
Does it get added to the numerator only add to
the numerator and de nominator. These contributions can really swing
my overall personal savings rate quite significantly depending on how
I treat them.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
I love listening to your show. Thanks guys, Well.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
John, we appreciate you listening to the show. But yeah, Joe,
let's go ahead and get nerdy with savings rates here.
I love these kinds of questions because they are they're.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
The things people think about. They're like, okay, cool man.
Joel said that this is the kind of savings rate
I should have.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
I don't I know what it is. Yeah, it seems
like it should be like it really simple, easy thing
to figure out, but as John found out, it's actually
maybe more complicated than it seems on its surface. There's
a few additional variables that you have to take into account.
But yeah, let's talk about how much you should be saving.
John and the I feel like the standard personal finance
advice out there has been to save ten percent of
your income, and we've always felt like that that actually

(06:36):
falls short and that it's not going to allow you
to make progress quickly enough. So because of that, we
raise the bar. We think that fifteen percent is a
better starting point, and then beyond that, we'd love to
see people increasing their savings rate over the years from there.
And granted, some folks listening they might just be getting
started and they're just trying to raise their savings rate

(06:57):
up from like the national average, which is something like
two something like that not going to be enough to
retire comfortably. But there's no shame in that. It's great
that you're getting started, but you know, the fifteen percent
that is our preferred starting line, sometimes it takes a
bit of time to get up to that what we
think is sort of the standard. Yea and John, hopefully
that's hopefully that that's around where you are without you

(07:20):
having to kind of play with the numbers and budget
a little bit.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
There is that reality too that just even if the
goal is starting line of fifteen percent, a lot of
folks are going to start behind that. It's going to
take a while just to get up and worked up
to that number. But that's actually, like you said, Matt,
a far higher savings rate than what we have across
the country, something like three and a half percent. It's
been going down post pandemic. We had that brief spike
when a lot of money got thrust into people's accounts

(07:45):
the stimmy checks, and of course the savings rate has
dropped dramatically since then, and so I think it's no
wonder that people feel like they're living on the financial precipice.
When you're saving such a meager amount of your income,
it's going to feel like you don't have enough money.
And the CFP board actually recommended different savings rates based
on where you currently stand in regards to earnings, current

(08:05):
savings rate, and your age, and so, for instance, if
you're just starting to save in your forties, it's crucial
to basically have a baseline savings rate of twenty to
twenty five percent, And so I think they're spot on, though, right, Yeah,
it feels like it adds intu to injury. But the
truth is, and everybody knows this when you talk about
compounding returns, when we talk about starting late or getting

(08:26):
to the investing in savings game later on, the later
you start, the more you've got your work cut out
for you. And so it just goes to show the
power of beginning investing in your teens or twenties. And
then your savings rate, by the way, not only determines
how long it takes to reach full financial freedom, but
it also of course impacts how long it takes you
to reach the different stages of financial independence right that

(08:47):
we talk about because financial independence is not an all
or nothing proposition. A higher savings rate is, of course,
for instance, is going to mean you can take that
six months sabatical in your thirties, or could your job
for a less lucrative passion gig. It's an important personal
finance metric, and so it is kind of this nerdy
thing that we're going to dive into the details off,
but it also impacts your life. It impacts the choices

(09:09):
you're able to make. I think of it as much
more than just two kind of financial nerds batting back
and forth.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Specific here, it's like the implications are significant. Yeah, no,
So you know what this makes me think of It's
funny like before we hit record, we're talking about running
because again, like we're taking care of our bodies more
as we get into middle age, you and I we're
both gonna be running the Peachtree, the Peachtree red Rce right.
Really looking forward to that in Atlanta, staple that I've
never done before. So I'm pretty sure it's the world's
largest tin k. That's what they always I don't think

(09:37):
that's what they always say. I hope I'll get trampled,
but it's hard for me not to make parallels, I
guess whatever other examples from health, and it makes me
think of the more reading and research that I'm not
doing research. I'm just reading other people's research. And VO
two max it keeps coming up as this number that's
an incredible measure of cardiovascular health. And you can obsess

(09:57):
with other numbers, right, you can look at, oh, what's
my caloric intake, Oh what's my weight, that's kind of
like a terrible max heart rate. Yeah, Like there are
all the even steps, but ultimately all of those things
feed into your ability to remove oxygen from the air,
which is your VIEO to max basically. And so in
a similar way, I think folks can obsess over their

(10:18):
the number of subscriptions that they have, or their credit score,
or they could focus on boosting their income. They could
focus on what their net worth is, but all of
that sort of plays into the ability for you to
save more and invest for the future so that you
can actually retire on that money. And so in a
similar way, I feel like the saving trade is the
VO two max. I think, so it's a it's a
crucial number. And so that's why we took John's question. Then,

(10:39):
while we're spending so much time talking about it, but
he wants to specifically know whether or not he should
include that employer match when he's calculating his savings rate.
Sounds like he's got a generous employer, and you know
some of those four one K funds are getting matched,
but also is HSA contributions as well. It's huge, it's
doubly awesome. That's thousands and thousands of dollars there and benefit,

(11:00):
and that's obviously going to make a difference in his
ability to grow wealth. But do they get factored into
the calculations. This is a tough question, and I'm gonna
say I'm gonna play it safe and say that it depends.
Because if you are an incredibly frugal person and you
have sacrificed, you frontloaded the sacrifice, it likely can't hurt
to include the match in those calculations. You know, you're

(11:21):
looking out the numbers, you want to kind of see
the number go up. But if you're just getting started
out and maybe you're wanting to change the math so
that you can save less and spend more, I would
say that that's probably a bad move. And so it
kind of comes down to the heart what's the motivation
behind that? Yes, what is the motivation? What is that
the heart of why John is asking this question?

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Are you trying to make your savings right look better
than it is or are you the kind of person
who's already done the hard work and you're like, come on,
I'm can I dial it back just to touch and
we I feel like we try to be generous on
this podcast, Matt, with people who have done the right
thing over significant period of time. Yeah, you can dial
back your savings right, like, there's no need to keep
pushing it forward. At some point, if you've kept your

(11:59):
wants and desires check and your savings rate has been
blistering for a lot of years, and you built up
a substantial nest egg, you can take the foot off
the gas at some point.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Basically coast fire. Yeah, no need to pretend that your
number is any lower than it actually is.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
And that's a real problem for some people who have
been you know, consume a lot of personal finance information
and have worked their butts off for a long period
of time. But yeah, I think you're right. The motivation
matters on how you're going to calculate that savings rate.
And let's say your employer makes a five percent contribution.
You're like, great, now this means I can only I
only have to sock away nine or ten percent of
my money, and then I'm right there that base threshold

(12:33):
Matt and Jo'll talk about, and you're just trying to
hit the bare minimum. Well, I think then maybe you're
tricking yourself, and there are ways that you could You
should probably alter your thinking so that you can actually
push yourself to go a little bit harder, right exactly.
And so I mean that employer match can be amazing,
but I would I think typically we would say, no,
do not factor that into your savings rate, because yeah,

(12:53):
the average matches in the three percent area. Someone are
even more generous. But while you certainly can, I guess
i'd it's better to leave it out of the calculations
because that.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Match, it can go away in an instant. That's true,
And so we saw that happen during the pandemic. Matt.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
Like, when a company ends up in a tough financial situation,
the employee match is often the first perk to get
the boot. And let's say you change jobs and now
your new employer doesn't have a match or you opt
to go work for yourself. All of those things could
therefore take that away, and you don't have the muscle
that's been developed enough to have that higher savings rate
apart from the match, and that's not necessarily a good thing.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
So, yeah, especially if you're using it to justify additional spending.
And it's very easy to get used to an inflated lifestyle,
like once you start spending that money on certain things
in your life. It's yeah, it's tough to put the
cat back in the bag. We got chastises about using
cap metaphor, it's tough to put the tooth tape paste
back in the two. And so the ability to justify

(13:50):
excessive spending, that's also a good reason to not include
those employer contributions.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, because I've worked for a company just doing some
sidework Matt and all the employees in an instant man,
their formal K match was taken away. This was last year,
and I just remember hearing that there was a lot
of consternation concerned from a lot of these employees. It
does suck, And of course if you're calculating that into
your savings, right, Boom is down three percent in an instant,
are you gonna be able to come up with that
additional three percent to get your savings right back up there?

(14:17):
And plus I don't know, I kind of like airing
on the side of conservatism, just kind of knowing that, well,
I'm saving fifteen my employer's offering three. I guess in
some ways I can feel even better about myself because
I got an eighteen percent savings rightly.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Yeah. Like, So another reason too that I want you
to avoid taking it into account, John, is because I
want that savings rate to be a reflection of what
it is that you are doing, right. I want it
to be a reflection of the amount of money that
you have socked aside the discipline that you've enacted upon yourself. Right, Like,
it's like a score of your ability to deny some

(14:52):
of the temptations that you're facing to spend your money.
And so in that way to love future you, Yeah,
in that way, as you see that savings rate tick up,
there is something in those numbers, and I want it
to be a reflection of just all the hard work
that you're putting in. Other of that being said, and
know that to think about it, your employer is not
likely to give you a match unless you're giving or
unless you are contributing at all to your four to

(15:14):
one k. And so it is I guess obviously somewhat
of a reflection of the fact that you are doing
some good work, John. So if you want to include it,
I'm not going to beat you up for it, but
I think for most folks out there, it's probably best
to try to avoid doing that. John could kick your
butt anyway.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
Ye.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, Well, and if you are going to include it,
include it in the numerator and the denominator like you asked, John,
because it's essentially payment in the form of savings. So
I would just included on both fronts. And this is
something that can get wonky, Matt, I think as we've
kind of waded into already in the answer to this,
and depending I think on exactly how you calculate your
savings rate. It's kind of like how you factor in
pre tax first post tax contributions. Your savings rate percentage

(15:51):
can vary significantly, so depending on how you're running the numbers.
This is kind of like when people say that you
can make statistics say anything, you can make statistics, lie.
I think the same thing is true, Right, you got
to beef up your savings right by the way you're
caculating it, or you can make it look a little
more meager. So just make sure you're not taking the
most liberal approach to make it look like you're doing
better than you actually are.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
And totally by the.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Way, I think it's important to mention too that savings rates.
When we say that, it factors in money that is
flowing into savings and into investments, and you might be
doing a little bit of both at the same time. Right,
you might be socking more money into savings for medium
termed goals and also socking something a big portion of that.
Hopefully after you've got that emergency fund up and running,
you're funneling most of that money into investments and not

(16:34):
just savings. But I think once you've reached a sweet
spot of savings, all of your quote unquote savings will
be funneled into investment accounts.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Right, That's kind of the goal. But I think the
most important thing is just to be consistent. So whatever
it is that John decides that he's going to go with,
just don't change it. Right, This isn't necessarily something that
you need to obsess over, but just choose a metric
that you're happy with and then consistency, stick with it,
don't change it, and then that way you've got a
nice baseline essentially, right, But he.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Said, don't change it except for maybe change it in
the upper trajectory slowly over time. So for instance, we
talked about increasing that four one k contribution of percent
every year something like that.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
They don't change the formula. So like, once you've identified
what tack that you're gonna take, John, just don't change that.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, but yes, if you can boost you're saving because
again Boot, you're investing. Fifteen percent is the starting line, right, Like,
we want people to over time increase that because the
more you're able to set aside over the years, the
more options you have for yourself earlier on in your life,
like that sabbatical or job change. Those are big life
decisions that are hard to do if you don't have
a significant savings.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
Right. That's right, man, But we've got more to get to.
We're gonna hear from a listener who seems like she's
set for retirement, but at the same time she doesn't
have any money set aside, and her actual retirement accounts
how well, we'll get to that more right after this.

(17:54):
All right, we'll back to the break.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
We've got more money questions to get to on this episode.
Next question from a listener whose credit score has improved
and she's trying to take full advantage of it.

Speaker 5 (18:05):
Hey, guys, Alexandra from Pittsburgh here have a quick question
to ask you. I bought my car in twenty twenty two,
and I use that to rebuild my credit. Basically, I
refinanced it a year later and I lowered my payment
and I got a slightly better interest rate. However, my

(18:26):
credit's gone better since and I'm wondering, is there a
way to negotiate interest rates after you refinanced with the
bank or you always have to refinance to lower the
interest rate? And how does this work with a vehicle
that's depreciating in value? This is a twenty eighteen Chevy Cruise.
Thank you, have a good day, by bye.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Great question, Alexandra, and I'll point out you are one
of the rare folks who could actually benefit from refinancing
right now, largely because it sounds like your credit has
improved so much. Rates have actually been on the rise,
which means refinancing makes sense for far fewer folks. So
I think what that might mean is that lenders are
going to be happy to hear from you because their
refinancing business has largely dried up. But for you, because

(19:10):
of your financial position, because of the fact that you've
increased your score, you're in a different boat basically. And
you said that you were able to use your car
loan by the way to kind of rebuild your your
credit score, and that's in large part because the credit
bureaus they take your credit mix into account, and so
I think there's a chance that you introduced an installment
loan when maybe before all you had were revolving lines

(19:31):
of credit that were available to you. So now you've
got this this nice mix. Like they see your credit
report and they're like, oh man, this is a well
rounded individual right here. It's healthy. It's healthy. It's like
a college who's looking to hand out scholarships and they
see like a baller athlete who also took tons of
AP classes and has like a four point zero and
is it like the valuatorian other classes. It's like, oh man,

(19:52):
they're they're killing it on both fronts. Yeah, yeah, that's
what finally Dranda is doing with her with the credit score.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
And can you imagine, by the way, being a mortgage
lender right now, I got to imagine the business has
dried up on so many ways, so there's fewer homes
being sold. Nobody wants to refinance right now, so it's
just a toughness being and so you're right, I think
it probably similar. Note on the car reefinancing front. They're
probably here in crickets most days, so when Alexander calls,
they will be thrilled to take their call.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
And so yeah, you ask if you can we take
you out to lunch right exactly what you got going
on right now, right like literally right now.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
So I think if you could. She asked Matt about
negotiating the rate that she has with the current lender.
The truth is probably not right. You're often able to
negotiate and interestrate if you're buying a car from a dealership.
That's one of the things they might be willing to
budge on in order to make the sale growth through.
If you like, say, listen, you're saying seven percent, I'm
not going to buy unless you can get me down
to five percent, well, they might try to meet somewhere

(20:44):
in the middle. But once you've got a loan in place,
you aren't likely going to be able to go back
and ask the current lender to lower the interest rate
moving forward. So well, I might, if I were you,
call my current lender to see if they have any
incentives for you to do a refinance with them, Like, hey,
current customer, disc out my credit's better, Can you give
me a better rate? Your best bet is almost inevitably

(21:05):
just to do another refinance with a different lender. It's
not necessarily to go back and try to renegotiate those
terms that you've currently got in place, right.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yeah. The good news though, is that when you are
refinancing a car loan, there aren't typically massive additional fees attached,
which is unlike when you refinance a mortgage. But there
are often some fees involved, and that's going to just
depend on the specific lender that you're with. So there
might be, let's say, a prepayment fee with your current lender,
or there might be origination fees with other lenders as well.

(21:34):
It's just something to keep an eye out for the
tune of hundreds of dollars potentially four dollars. Yeah, and
so I would say, if there's a pre payment fee
that could be a reason to completely avoid refinancing. That's
when I would yeah, let's get back in touch with
your your current lender and depending on how much it
is right exactly, but you know, if that's something that
you can avoid. If you can't avoid all of those fees,
I would say, there's you know, no harm, no foul

(21:56):
to refinance your car loan when a better deal is available.
I think everyone is out there looking to try to
pay less interest over time. Start shopping around, see what
you can find, see what you can reduce your your
rate to. And I would say the best place to
look at might be local credit unions. Check out Capital one.
There's also the site called my Auto loan dot Com.

(22:16):
I'd actually probably start with them my Auto Loan since
they do everything online, they make it pretty easy. That's
one of the biggest barriers. One of the biggest hurdles
to get past is just the hassle factor. But then
on top of that, they don't charge any origination fees,
so that's huge. So you should be able to look
up current rates. That's something you could even do tonight
after listening to this episode. Yeah, and I think you

(22:37):
could also look up your current rates with the local
credit unions that you've heard of that are in your
area as well.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
If you don't already have a relationship with a local
credit union, che check check out two or three in
the metro area where you live. Go on their site.
Typically they've got a little spot where you can click rates,
and then you check out mortgage rates and car loan
rates and helock rates and so flip through those sites
and kind of see and oftentimes, Matt they'll break it
down by the aide to the vehicle, because typically the
older the vehicle, the higher interest rate that it's going

(23:04):
to come with. Sower the model you're buying, the better
interest rate you're going to get. But because this is
a twenty eighteen model that Alexander has, it's probably going
to come with a slightly higher interest rate. But still
because of her better credit, she might be able to
reduce that rate. She didn't actually say what her current
rate is. I'd be curious to know, but who depending
on what it is, there could be a substantial discount

(23:25):
even though rates have gone up, right, And so I
would say, the nice thing, like you mentioned, is you
don't have to leave the comfort of your home and Alexander.
She mentioned the last time she refinanced that she was
able to lower her payment by the way, That's cool,
but it's also what I would prioritize, right, Like folks
who refinance regularly, they might find themselves lengthening the payback period,

(23:46):
which means they're underwater in the car for longer. So
the goal is not necessarily to get the lowest monthly payment, right.
You don't want to put yourself in the position of
being underwater in the car for a long period of time.
I would say that getting the lowest rate is the
most important thing, even if it means take a shorter
term in increasing your monthly payment amount, because ultimately our goal,
what we want for you is for you to be

(24:06):
out of debt and paying the least amount overall for
your car. Right, So that is, of course, if you
can financially handle those increased payments exactly. Really, that's the
goal here. It's not just to lengthen the loan as
long as possible. We hate long car loans.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
I'll stretch those payments out. Yeah, the lower rate certainly
trumps the lower payment, and the goal is just to
become car debt free as soon as possible, and hopefully
to never have a car car payment again in your life.
So we're pumped that you're paying more attention to your finances,
your credit score. You're able to see that grow and
this is of course going to continue to give you
access to better terms when you are borrowing, perhaps if

(24:43):
you are looking at purchasing a home in the near future.
But simultaneously, don't go overboard with it, because just because
you can now snag a lower rate with a loan
new loan products that are now available to you, that
doesn't mean that you want to put more emphasis on borrowing.
Most debt is still working against your old time goal
of a sense of financial freedom where you are the

(25:03):
one earning interest because you've got lots of savings in
the bank as opposed to you making the interest payments
to the banks.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Yeah, I think you and I, Matt, we have a
more nuanced take on debt. We're not debt haters all
the way, but car loan debt is certainly one of
those that we frown upon.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
Don't like it.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
It's not like a never okay sort of thing, but
it is a mostly let's avoid this thing type of vehicle,
and let's hope Alexander can improve this debt, but the
goal ultimately is to eradicate it, like you said. So
let's get to our next question. This one's all about
how future guaranteed streams of income impact how you should
be saving for retirement.

Speaker 4 (25:36):
Now.

Speaker 6 (25:36):
Hey there, Matt and Jewel, this is Ashley in Sacramento.
I really wish you guys were around when I was
in my twenties. Alas I am now sixty one and
the only real retirement savings that I have is my
public service pension, which I'll probably start dipping into in
about seven years, so I'll be taking home a really

(25:56):
good portion of the salary that I'm currently earning. So
I do have two questions for you. The first one
is how does a pension affect the money gears? And
the second question is is it really worth opening a
retirement account this late stage in the game, and if so,
what type of account should I be considering? Thank you

(26:20):
so much, I really love this show.

Speaker 3 (26:22):
Keep up the good work, oh, Matt.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
A pension one an incredible thing to have. Congress to
Ashley for having that in her retirement repertoire. The fact
that it's going to provide pretty darn close to your
current level of pay.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
That's a massive win.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
And most of our younger listeners, Matt, they're probably scratching
their heads right now, they're like, what.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Is that, Audie?

Speaker 4 (26:41):
What? Ty?

Speaker 2 (26:42):
Yeah, what you're talking about? Well, I actually have a
really small pension from when I worked in radio.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
For a while. But you know, they're bragging, Well, pay.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
Was incredibly low, so it's not huge. And also I
wasn't there for like you typically that reminder, I said,
incredibly small. Ye yeah, yeah, because like to have a
substantial pension typically that means being at the same for decades,
and a pension can also kind of work as golden handcuffs,
and so in some ways, not having a pension means
you can be a little more mobile in the workforce,
potentially increase your income a little more because you're more
likely to move on and not just stay put because

(27:11):
the pension's coming.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
But maybe a bit more mobility in the workforce when
there aren't pensions evolved when we get to take care
of our own futures ourselves, that's right.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
So a few years before I left that job, actually
they stopped increasing the pension for years work, so it
made it a much easier decision for me to leave.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
So I was like, cool, peace out, I'm out of here.
That's right.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
So mine is obviously chump change compared to Ashley's is
better than nothing, but like generous pensions like hers are
obviously much.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
Harder to come by. That's right. Okay, So how should
Ashley consider her pension? How should that impact how she
saves and how she invests? And we'll take a step
back here and let's look at retirement because it was
traditionally referred to as a three legged stool. It was
all about the pension, yes, but also social security and
then your personal savings. And for that stool to not

(27:57):
be wobbly and rickety, you needed the healthy dose of
all three of those things. And so for folks who
don't have a pension, what that means, though, is even
more dedication is going to be needed on the personal
savings leg. And so for a lot of folks out
there who are listening to this, you do not have
a pension, for the most part, it's going to fall
on you. It's you, and of course you're gonna have

(28:18):
some social security. But if Ashley you're the one asking
the question here. If you do have a pension, this
does mean that you probably don't need to go quite
as hard her. You know, we were talking about the
savings rate earlier. Her savings rate doesn't need to be
quite as robust. She doesn't necessarily need to get after
it like John is probably doing right. Like where he's
kind of crunching the numbers, he's squeaking the formula, trying

(28:41):
to find a way to see how he can dedicate
more money towards his own future.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Well, the nice thing about a pension, similar to social security,
is that it's his kind of guaranteed stream of income, right,
so that it's not wobbly or if the market goes
through an extended bear market, you're not looking at a
smaller withdrawal amount because hey, the four percent rule says
I can't take as much out this year. So it's
nice to have those kind of guaranteed streams. But I'll
say this, she ashulely, you should also be working to

(29:07):
shore up your retirement through personal contributions.

Speaker 1 (29:10):
Matt.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
I think largely because of the three legged stool analogy
you just gave right, the pension combined with social security income.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Well, it could be enough, and.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
It likely will be, but I'd like to have more
of a buffer personally, and so I think she might
be able to retire fairly comfortably.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
But like you said, let's get some let's get a
little more patting in there, just to make sure that
when she's quits work she's able to land on a
nice cushion. Yeah, money exactly.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
I think it's going to just give Ashley more options
in retirement, and so I would consider you.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
She asked about what account.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
I consider opening up a roth IRA and maxing out
those contributions for the next seven years, and that means
you can sock away seventy five hundred bucks still for
last year, eight thousand dollars for this year. And the
reason you can sock away more than what other people
are able to is because you're over the age of
fifty five and you qualify for that catch up contribution amount.
And so simple math tells me eight thousand bucks times

(29:59):
seven years equals fifty six thousand dollars. That's not factoring
in earnings, so it's likely to be double that or more.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
The jung's gonna compound, right, so there's no harm.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
I would say, in socking way more money if you're
able to met The other nice side of that is
by contributing more to retirement accounts and not just living
on everything you're bringing home, you're also kind of reducing
the amount that you need to fund in retirement because
you're getting used to living on just.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
A little bit less. Yeah, So one other thing. It's
funny she mentioned that she wished that we were around
while when she was in her twenties. Well, and you
mentioned the roth Ira. Roth Ira didn't exist. The Ira existed.
I think that's been around for like forty plus years
or whatever, but the rath Ira was introduced in the nineties.
So that wasn't even something that you could have taken
advantage of. We were recommending our favorite and even if

(30:46):
we were wise enough to have done that when we
were kids, you couldn't have even contributed to that while
you were in your twenties. Well, we weren't kids.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
I guess I just looked it up because I wasn't trying.
I knew it was like the nineteen ninety eight, So
ninety eight, Yeah, that was a good year, baby, So
I guess I was fourteen. I get my first job
at Chick fil A, I send it a roth I
probably could have started a rock then I just didn't
know about it.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
Then that's right, But Joel mentioned the roth ira. We
think that prioritizing working with one of our favorite low
cost providers like Vanguard, Fidelity or Schwab. That's who you
should be looking to if you don't already have an
account with them, and it sounds like you don't because
it sounds like you have fully relied on your pension
but something else. You'll probably want to invest those dollars

(31:28):
in a target date fund instead of the standard S
and P five hundred index, which is what we typically
recommend for folks who are in their wealth building phase
of life. And this is because you'll actually be pulling
some of those dollars back out of the account in
the not too distant future. You're investing timeline, it's shorter,
and so it's going to be better to have a
more conservative mix of investments. You're going to have a

(31:50):
lot more of your dollars invested in bonds as opposed
to in stocks, and so again, the pension it's nice,
it's a luxury, but we also don't think that a
generous pension, it just completely mitigates the need to invest,
although for most folks it will mean that you can
just get away with investing a much smaller percentage of
your pay. And I'll also say too, it's worth thinking

(32:11):
through that some of your dollars you may not want
to invest at all. Again, it comes down to your timeline.
But if you have some big items that you're looking
to purchase shortly after retirement, or let's say you've got
a big trip plan to go around the world, if
you know that there are going to be some big
expenses in the near future, it might make sense instead
of investing those dollars to even like maybe put that

(32:33):
money in a high old savings account or even a
CD where you know you're getting a guaranteed rate for
a certain amount of time, at which point you'll get
guaranteed that you'll get all that money back because and more. Yeah,
and interesting, But I guess if you're looking at a
period of time that's any less than three years, there's
you have a higher chance of the money invested being

(32:53):
going down in value because of the fluctuations of the market.
And so think through to some of those future expenses
that you might have shortly after retirement, yeah, or even before,
even like leading up to retirement, you might be thinking,
all right, this is something I want to drop a
whole lot of money on. Just keep that in mind
as well.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
And I think so again, going back to that pension
social Security combo might fund all the lifestyle you need,
but then maybe this is money that you can give away,
or it's money for that big trip that you haven't
budgeted for. With the just kind of general living expenses
being taken care of, you can think of this as
kind of like a gravy sort of slush fund, which
is kind of a fun thing to have when you

(33:28):
reach those retirement years, especially those early retirement years right
where you want to kind of live it up and
take advantage of the few years where the first few
years in particular that you're not working. And so I
will say this too about pensions. Ashley specifically is guaranteed
a significant monthly amount via the pension at this point, right,
But for everyone else out there, if you're working a

(33:50):
job that offers a pension, and let's say you're young,
you're in your thirties, it would be a bad idea
to bank on that funding your entire retirement pensions, especially
from private employers, can be taken away in an instant, right,
Like it's that rug pull that I got, It's multiple
years ahead of me leaving that job. It's like, hey,
guess what, We're not going to add any more to
your pension from here on out, no matter how long
you stay here. But you know, the people I was

(34:11):
working alongside who had been there for twenty twenty five,
thirty years, they had significantly more money, significantly more assets
built up in that pension. So I guess I would
just say, don't let the existence of a pension, the
current existence of a pension, lull you into a false
sense of security, thinking that's what's going to take care
of you in the future, and you can just kind
of like coast right.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Yeah, so you said security, which also makes me think
of social security, And I think there's an argument to
be made to not overly count on social security as well.
We've talked about this fairly in depth on the show before.
We think that there's a good chance that benefits will
remain It's not like it's going to completely go bust,
but maybe not in their current form. Yeah, there's a
good chance that could change though, whether that's the benefits

(34:53):
that that reduces, or maybe the retirement age gets slightly gradually,
very you know, very slowly over time, gets pushed back,
or in order to to truly keep it solvent, probably both, Yeah,
And so there's I don't there's just especially considering so,
you know, what the average life expectancy was when they
created social security back in the thirties was essentially like
sixty two, right, literally, I think it was fifty nine

(35:15):
and a half, and the life expect it's like fifty
eight fifty nine. The life expectancy today is seventy eight,
seventy nine, like literally is twenty years beyond what it
was back then. But the retirement age is still the
same as sixty five, and so, like it wasn't created
to have been used all that often. And now we
have a massive population that's quickly aging, which is awesome.
It's incredible that the benefits that we've seen, the technological

(35:39):
advances in medicine and health that it is allowing folks
to live longer. But what that means is, man, it's
putting a whole lot of strain on social security.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Especially given the dynamics that we and the popular workforce.
And yeah, it's more more and more people now on
Social Security increasingly every single year, and fewer people paying
into the system.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yeah, it just it makes me think of like a
third world, you know, where there aren't regulations and you
see like all these power lines coming out of a
transformer box. You know, you know what I'm saying. It's
like every additional year, there's an additional line that kind
of just gets shoved into it and at some point
you're like, oh my gosh, that thing is about to
just like thing's going to blow up for sure, for sure,
that's what it feels like. And so we just want

(36:19):
to put that on your radar as well. That's another consideration.
It may not be as robust by the time any
of us retired, so it's also beneficial to make personal
contributions as well.

Speaker 4 (36:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
I think the closer you are, I guess, the more
likely you are to get what's promised to you when
you log into the Social Security website. But yeah, the
younger you are, maybe again a little more of that buffer,
a little more that margin of bear.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yeah, Ashley's probably fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry, Actually I
hope I didn't. I wasn't at all attempting to like
freak you out. Yeah, and I don't think we did.
You're good, Ashley.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
The last thing I want to mention. One other thing
to consider is what your living expenses are going to
be in retirement. Right, Are you gonna have a paid
off car or paid off mortgage? You might not actually
need to invest as much either, right, as fewer dead
obligations and yeah, so shocking way more I think makes sense.
But just keep that in mind too. I don't think
you need to fret about this because you are set
up largely by these other two massive sources of income

(37:11):
you're gonna have. But it's also not a bad idea
to plan for the rainy day and start saving more
as well.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
That's right, and we've got more to get to. We'll
finally get to that financial cheese question. What's that all about?
We'll talk more personal finance right after this. All right, man,
we're back. We'll talking about financial cheese.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Is a crew here? Is it parmesan? Is it just
basic cheddar? Who knows you have a favorite type of cheese?

Speaker 1 (37:39):
I like white cheddar? White. I'm very basic. You're like
from the heartland, that's like Middle America White Cheddar, which.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
I kind of be honest, like the best of my
favorite place in the United States I visited over the years.
People wise, Wisconsin. Yeah, Heartland people, they're the best. Sorry
not to hate on the coastal elites, but I don't know.
I just I love the Midwestern Is.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
Atlanta considered a coastal elite city?

Speaker 4 (38:00):
Think?

Speaker 1 (38:00):
No, I don't even know now, because we're not technically
on the coast. You can't see water. That's That's one
of the downsides of Atlanta is the fact that we
don't have like a nice, attractive large body of water.
We'll hang on the Chatahooch. You got the Chattaho. We
got the Hooch, and it's a large body of water,
not so attractive.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
That's a good point. All right, Let's get to the
Facebook question of the week. This one comes from Amanda.
She says, so I met some financial goals, just a
bout my dream house. I feel like I've hit my goal.
But now my question is what's next. The sky's the
limit as long as I'm being financially responsible. Of course,
I've been thinking about the next stages of life and
what I want to get out of it. I guess
I've been so concentrated on reaching this one particular goal,

(38:37):
I haven't thought much about the next goal.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
She says.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
Yes, I have a fully funded emergency fund. Yes, I'm
saving a lot for retirement. This leads me to wonder
what is everyone else saving for? Is it that bucket list, vacation,
a vacation home, a new deck or patio. Just checking
in to see.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
What others are saving for very nice. It was interesting
to see the.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
Responses in here, because, of course, in the how to
Money Facebook group, everybody's got something they're saving for.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
You know, well, I love this question because clearly there
are listeners out there who will be envious. Right they
are not where Amanda is, and that is where they
want to be. But yeah, on the other hand, you've
got how to many listeners and they are crushing it.
They've hit big goals, and they're also not sure where
to funnel those additional dollars. And if you are fairly frugal,
if you are investing regularly, if you're keeping your once

(39:20):
in check, you're bound to run up against this question.
This is a good problem to have, and we think
it's worth talking about. How does it you should proceed
And by the way, so the whole financial cheese thing,
it's a reference to a book Who Moved My Cheese.
It's like a modern day business parable about react thirty
years ago again from the nineties, perhaps modern, I guess, yeah,

(39:42):
But so I don't know, Amanda, maybe it's worth taking
checking that book out from the library and thinking through.
What it's focusing on is the process of change. Thus
the Who Moved My Cheese? And there are certain reactions
that you can have. You can you know, approach it
from a more defeat standpoint where you can kind of
enjoy the fact that, oh my gosh, I have now

(40:02):
the ability to pursue another goal, and ultimately that's the
direction that we want to kind of push you towards.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
Yeah, okay, so some of the responses Matt were really good.
I mentioned that, So let me just go over a
couple and I think maybe they can be instructive and
at least kind of provoking some thought about what could
be next.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Just to spitball some ideas little.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
Yeah, because I think sometimes you're like you do get
stuck and it's really nice to hear what somebody else
is trying to achieve and then you're like, oh, okay,
actually that sounds good, and then run it through your
own filter right about what matters to you and what
you and your family, whether that aligns with your philosophy
or not. But let's mention if you home personalization and
rental work that was one security, or just options that

(40:41):
was another thing. So people were like, I'm just building
up even more bank even though I met those goals,
because I just want more options in the future, which
I think basically investing more is the recommendation. In that case,
someone else said that now is a great time to
prioritize giving. I think that's a fantastic choice too, maybe
even dabbling in all the above. It doesn't have to
be like all of those immense resources that that Amanda

(41:02):
might have at her disposal at this point. It doesn't
have to flow into just one thing. And I think,
Matt at the heart of this question in a lot
of ways is how to transition from being a dedicated
saver over an extended period of time to someone who
can spend money on things they enjoy without going overboard.
And I think it takes time and intentionality to do
that right. I think the rudder moves slowly, but it's

(41:23):
also something that we should be seeking to do. It's
kind of this atrophied muscle if we've been so good
at saving and investing, that we need to build to
be able to spend mindfully.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
And so yeah, this is why we have the craft
beer equivalent is because this isn't a muscle that we
want you to have let atrophy. Because if there are
some small ways that you know that you like to
spend money, well, over time you can ramp those up. Yes,
hopefully there is a way that you can expand on
those things. Like I remember, like early on in our relationship,
pouring you a little poor like a finger or two

(41:52):
of Talisker, one of my favorite whiskeys, one of my
favorite scotches specifically, and where do we get to go?
Last year Drick and Talisker at the distillery from on
the coast of the Isle of Sky in Scotland, after
which we walked up the hill and enjoyed some freshly
caught oysters. These aren't things that you and I could
have ever like dreamt of doing, right, but we It's

(42:14):
it's like, as I was thinking through, I was just like, well,
what's something It's like a germinating, yeah, and like it's
kind of growing into this beautiful plant. But that's why
we want folks to think through before the reach sort
of the end of the race and are like, oh,
across the finish line or whatever they feels like the
finish line, it's like, well, it's more like a journey.
It's not like a race. Like we're not trying to
race to get there. We're just trying to We want

(42:36):
you to enjoy the journey into and so much of
what makes the journey fun are the things that are
around you, Like not just the things like drink, but
the people like you, you know, like the fact that
you and I were able to do that together with
our wives. That was huge. That was so much fun.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
I think something else we're of pointing out here is
to being outside the box get a little weird with
It makes me think of our friend Carl, who suffered
from the same issue, which he would readily admit and
has admitted on our podcast beform Mistery fifteen hundred and
one of the things he chose.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
To link to his episode in the show notes it
was great.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
And I have like so much respect for Carl, love
the guy and he's it's worth kind of going along
for the ride with him. One of the things he
decided to do because he's got more money than he'll
ever be able to spend because he's very frugal and
he's been a good investor. He spent ten thousand bucks
to bring one of his favorite bands to a local
spot that he owns and invited all of his friends

(43:24):
to come for free. Like he just basically threw a
raging party. And I think that's such a great way
to spend money, Like.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
Why the heck not, Carl is his own frat house, right.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
I don't know if they were doing keg stands or not,
but still this sounds like a and he invited us.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
There was quality beer involved though, and I was so
sad that we can Yeah yeah, we already had plans
too hard to fly out to Colorado for that, but
it was not meant to be. But when he is time, when.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
He announced that, I was like, this is exactly the
kind of style I was so happy for h Yeah,
Like it totally moved the happiness style for him in
a big way. And ten grand at this point for
him was like a drop in the bucket to invite
his favorite band. And so maybe I don't know, Amanda,
thin think outside the box. What are some maybe like
weird stuff that I could do that I maybe normally
wouldn't consider. Like Emily and I thought about that. Man,
we didn't end up doing it, but like literally renting

(44:08):
a cool place for our fortieth birthday, providing all the
food and drinks, naming all our friends there, and what
a fun night that would have been if we had
actually had the if we had actually made it happen.
So the gumption though, yeah, but it wasn't money that
prevented that. It was like all these other things that
were happening in our lives. It just felt so difficult.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
To pull off. Its other considerations as well.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
But those are the kind of things like I don't know, Yeah,
maybe you throw a party. Maybe you just to how
back it works so you can enjoy more free time.
I don't know what it is, but go on, dude,
I think that's huge. I think going part time is
massive because I think for a lot of folks and
what this is something that Amanda said. She says, I
haven't thought much about the next goal and what happens
when you work less? You have more time on your hand.

(44:47):
So there's there's like a twofold benefit here in my opinion. One,
there's a lot of folks they don't necessarily love what
they do, like, they're working in a stressful environment and
it's taking a toll on their mental health, it's taking
a toll on their bodies, and so the ability to
dial back on that a little bit could significantly increase
their happiness.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
So there's a win, right. But then the second win
is the fact that what have I gained from that?
Not only what have I left behind, which is stress,
but what have I moved on to? What am I
now gaining? I'm gaining more time. And when you have
more time, you have the ability to think through, oh, yeah,
what do I want the rest of my life to
look like? This isn't something that you have to wait
to think about while you're on your deathbed. This is Amanda.

(45:25):
You have the ability to start asking yourself these questions now,
which is an amazing benefits to not have postponed this
like all the way to then in your life.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Basically, yeah, it feels like, oh man, I don't know,
can I actually dial it back and work twenty hours
a week instead of forty probably right. It sounds like
you probably have enough excess that that's a real possibility
for you if that's something you desire. One of the
other replies Matt that I thought was super cool, Jackie said,
it's an arc to figure out what we want. Let
imagination and fantasy help figure it out. I thought that

(45:54):
was so well said. And Ryan also, he had a
great reply about visualizing the future. He said, what will
you wish you had done when you're seventy Start to
prioritize some of those experiences now, and made me think,
my dad literally is seventy right now. It's something we've
talked about, is going to hike the Camuino, Santiago and
Spain together. And guess what, that's not something he'll be

(46:14):
able to do in all likelihood in ten years.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
So, yeah, we got to get on it. If we're
going to do it, has to start hiking some now.
Even now. That would be difficult, it'd be difficult for us.
But yes, if you can make that a priority though,
is what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
Yeah, one of the things you won't be able to
do five, ten, fifteen years from now are you're going
to do today?

Speaker 1 (46:32):
Yeah, there are going to be certain limitations. You also
you talked about dabbling maybe all of the above sort
of approach like select d all of the above, and
we talked about this with Scott Rick on last week's episode.
But the ability to experiment, Amanda, I think that's huge,
And if you're not totally sure which direction you want
to go, just start saying yes to a lot of
stuff that isn't going to necessarily over commit you, like

(46:55):
go to the fundraiser, talks to the people, have the conversations,
because I feel like you never know, like what life
might throw your weight, don't. I haven't even told you this.
I had a conversation with somebody at a fundraising auction
is another volunteer and he is a part of an
advertising company in the own led billboards in Times Square,
and he's like, wow, what do you do? I was like,

(47:16):
I got a podcast And he said, well, we always
have vacancies and so maybe we'll get you guys up there.
And I said that would be awesome. How do how
do we make sure that's not in New York? Just
to take a picture in front of that up Yes,
I would, but I haven't heard back from Well, we'll
see if you'll see that pans out, I'm not necessarily
going to hold my breath. But what tells everybody that
it's a great line for the ladies, that's right. But

(47:38):
what I'm pointing to here is the fact that I
guess had I not been there and been willing to
have that conversation with somebody, that would not even be
on the table. And if you have time on your hand,
and you have additional money on hand, and you're trying
to figure out what to do with that time of money,
then a bunt of little experiments I think is a
way to kind of figure that out. Yep, agreed.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
And the other last thing I would say is just
I think there is something really helpful about continuing to
bank those dollars for future unknown things.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
Right.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
It's the things that you will partake into the future
that matter a lot, that might require a lot of
cash that you just don't know what they are yet.
It makes me think of Emily and I were banking
for the future when we didn't really know what we
were going to spend on, and then she ends up
going to grad school and boom, we're super.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
Glad we were doing it. Like we get the money
here to do it.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
We didn't know that was coming, and then like pretty
soon within a year's time, we were like, okay, cool,
this is total. This is the direction we're going to
go in. You're going back to school. Okay, this is
gonna be pretty costly.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
Good thing.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
We were saving ahead even though we didn't know what
we were saving for. So I think that can be beneficial.
I also think, I guess that can be.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
A cop out. This is a double edged sword, because
that's the thing where you could say, well, I don't know,
but I'm doing good. I'm going to keep earning money
because I'm making bank. And if you do that, un
till you keep going at it with that mindset. It's
so important to have a goal. And she's I think
she would attest to this the fact that she was
working towards this dream house that she's got. She is
seeing the power of having something like that that you're
looking towards and working towards. And so yeah, figure out

(48:56):
what the next goal is, Amanda. We wish are the
best and reach back out. Let it. Let us know.
I guess what it is that you have sets as
the next what's that next piece of cheese? You're going
after Yeah, yeah, I was gonna try to think another
word for gold went blank. But all right, man, let's
get back to our beer. This was a Dunkel, specifically
was called ALPSI. This is a Munich style logger. What

(49:19):
are your thoughts?

Speaker 2 (49:20):
Okay to me? This beer was the definition of malty.
It was oh yeah, dark, it was roasty. It's the
first word I wrote down for people who don't love stouts.
This is almost like a light version of a stout
because it's got some of those characteristics, but it's not
overly thick or overly intense. It is very approachable, maulty
dark beer.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Yeah, if you know that you don't like I Pas,
you want to look at some of these more malt
FORWD beers. So like a brown ale, a Dunkel, some
of those darker European beers certainly would do it for you.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
But it's very old school too, because it's like a
it's like an older German style beer, right, So they
just had to me it feels like I'm drinking history.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
It tastes like your an old dusty books. Like literally,
it's like liquified in the best way possible, e liquified
holy bread is another thing that came to my mind
where it feels like you're eating the fruit of the land.
It's filling. Yeah. Yeah, But Mike and Christy think out
so much for donating this one to the podcast and Joe,
that's gonna be it. Listeners can find show notes up
on our website at howdnomoney dot com. There you can

(50:22):
find that conversation we had with Carl not too long ago, and.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
Oh, in one of the ways he uses real estate
to uh investing to completely avoid taxes on income that
he makes. Pretty cool. So oh that's right. Be sure
to check that episode out if you haven't listened to
it yet.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
Nice tease.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
Yeah, but that's gonna be it for this one, buddy.
Until next time, Best Friends

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Out, Best Friends Out.

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Ask HTM - The Key Personal Finance Metric, Negotiating A Lower Car Loan Rate, & WTD When Your Cheese Is Moved #805

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ask HTM - The Key Personal Finance Metric, Negotiating A Lower Car Loan Rate, & WTD When Your Cheese Is Moved #805